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Embracing Classic Fundraising Techniques with Tim Johnson | Nonprofit 411 Podcast · Nonprofit411 Podcast

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Hello and welcome to Nonprofit411, where we dive into resources and strategies that help nonprofits not just survive, but truly thrive.
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I'm Sarah Barton, your host and fundraising advocate.
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Hello and welcome back again to the nonprofit for one one podcast where we explore resources and strategies to help your nonprofit thrive.
I'm Sarah Barton your host and today I'm excited to welcome Tim Johnson.
He has from the World Venture Organization where he's the director of development and the park bench fundraising strategist.
Organization where he's a senior partner and his favorite title.
He is a member of the IBRBS, which stands for the International Brotherhood of Real Bearded Santas, which is my favorite.
Of the three that I listed just because that's so unique and awesome.
So welcome to, Oh, yeah, the mind too.
Mine too.
Yeah, sir.
It's really good to see you.
It's so good to catch up with you.
We worked together years ago.
You were on my fundraising team at Ohio Valley university.
And so it is so exciting to have a conversation with you.
I am, you know, in the nonprofit sector and in the fundraising sector, you're one of the old guys now.
I'm afraid so.
But it means that you have experience that is so unique and you know, It's, it's rare.
It's just, we don't do fundraising in the same way.
And so you get to integrate all the types of fundraising, you know, the old school type and the new school type.
But before we get started in a conversation, tell me about your membership in the IBRBS, because I'm sure all of our listeners want to know.
Yeah, the IBRBS, the international brotherhood of real bearded Santas.
Is the largest organization for Santa's and Christmas performers and workers.
So we also not just have Santa's, we have Mrs.
Claus's, we have elves, we, you know, all the funds.
I guess if, if somebody wanted to dress up as a reindeer, they, they could be a member of the Ivy as well.
But it's, it's been around for awhile and a bunch of like minded people.
And I will, and, and.
It's really kind of fun.
No, it's not.
It's a, it's a lot of fun.
Just recently, for example, we had a meeting of the North Texas chapter of the international brotherhood of real bearded Santas, and we all met at a restaurant and there was about 80 of us.
Oh, wow.
So you can imagine what kind of fun this is with 80 guys with beards and their, and their spouses.
All in one restaurant and the, and the poor waitress, yeah, that goes to the guy with the white beard that, well, you know, but yeah, it's, it's a lot of fun and really the, the most fun that I've, I've.
I think I can speak for every Christmas worker out there.
The most fun about it, of course, is just watching the kids and the interaction of the kids.
So that's a lot of fun.
So do you have a pretty busy Christmas season then? Does it fill up your calendar? It could I'm, I'm really thinking that if the day comes that I retire, this, this might be a retirement gig for me because it, it could really fill it up.
And for example, I just do it when I have available time.
And I've got, I've got one, one thing that I'm doing this Christmas at at grapevine Texas, which is the Christmas capital of Texas, by the way.
Oh, wow.
They have an antique train that runs, runs around and I'm going to be one of the Santas on the North Pole Express for the, for the city of Grapevine, which that's a lot of fun.
And so this is the best retirement gig I've ever heard of.
That's a great retirement gig.
Yeah.
And it's somewhat seasonal, you know, but you know, every now and then you find a, you can find a Christmas in July thing to do, but it's my darling, my wife and I, we we spent a little time in this, this past summer, we spent a little time in, in Maui, over in Hawaii.
And the whole time I was there, I kept wishing I'd brought my, my Santa shirt, my Santa t shirt that I have, because too much fun to be on the beach wearing a Santa shirt.
Well, and you know, so does she dress up too? No, no, she refused to be a Mrs.
Claus, which might cause a little problem with my, my kids, my, my grandkids, because at some point they're going to see me perform with a Mrs.
Claus.
That isn't my wife.
We're going to have to do some explaining at that point.
I think that song I saw mommy or yeah.
Mommy kissing Santa Claus, you know, and all my, all my grandkids, Are convinced that I'm the real Santa and yeah, you are to them for sure.
One of them, she was in second grade.
Her mom, my daughter's a school nurse where she goes to school and she was going to have me come out, be Santa.
And she said, no, don't have him come out to be Santa.
And she said, why not? She goes, well, then everybody will know that my granddad is the real Santa.
And I just don't need that in my life.
She's the one that will have the schedule, the calendars out when she's in third grade, you know? Yeah.
Yeah.
When she needs to use it, when it works in her favor.
Well, great.
Well, I love that.
That's a great hobby.
I have not heard that hobby yet, you know, so that's been my standard question is what's your favorite hobby? And, you know, you didn't even have to, I didn't even have to ask the question because you're a card carrying member there.
Take care.
Yeah, I have the card, I tried to use it as an idea at the airport, it didn't work.
Did the guy get a chuckle? He did.
He chuckled.
Yeah.
That's cute.
Well, you want to tell our listeners a little bit about yourself and the work that you're currently doing? Sure so I'm working with, with this organization WorldVenture, which is an 80 year old Christian missionary sinning organization, and it's, like I said, it's been around over 80 years, and they have about 400 missionary units in the field, and a lot of, a lot of them are in places that that we don't talk about.
for security and safety reasons.
But missions and mission works are, you, you know, this missions has always been really close to my heart.
I spent my wife and I spent a number of years in in Ukraine, the mission field back in the nineties.
Oh, well.
All through the nineties, actually.
And with everything that is, that's happened in Ukraine lately and with the invasion has become even more close to me.
So I I had an opportunity to work with missions organizations and I jumped at it.
And yeah, and that's, that's what we're doing.
So, and we were raising money for the organization to, to do what it does for missionaries.
And then the other organization I work with is an organization called Park Bench Fundraising Strategist.
And I'm senior principal there, one of the senior principals there, working with my brother James.
And he, he started it a few years back and asked me to join him.
And so I joined him and we, We looked around and what was happening was he looked around because he and I both have been doing fundraising for, for decades.
And we're, we're seeing a lot of the same things and a lot of the same problems and organizations, both new, small, big, young, whatever.
And these, these guys need some help.
And so that's what we're doing.
We're just trying to help these folks.
And like one recent organization that we helped it was a old organization struggling to make money.
Make ends meet fundraising had become stagnant.
And, you know, so we helped them with some strategies and then 60 days turned the organization around.
And so that's what we do.
We, we tell our, we tell our clients, potential clients that if we don't increase your fundraising about at least 20%, by the time we're done, you don't owe us a penny.
Yeah, I, I'm thinking that that is a strategy that, you know, we need to get back to where like, because there are some tried and true processes that every single time somebody puts them in place, they work, right? Yes.
And you know, it's, it's the old, you got to get back to basics, you know, in, in this modern world, everything's going on.
Yes.
It's all good stuff, but you can't forget the basics.
Yeah, that was one of the reasons I was so excited to have you on because I do think that older fundraisers who have seen many cycles, right? You've seen many cycles of the fundraising process.
You know, some strategies that get forgotten as We have turnover as we, you know, have new tools in place that we utilize.
The strategy, though, and the thought process don't always get passed along with the turnover of those You know, softwares and people, and so the basics are so key and so important.
Yeah.
And, and really, you know, it's kind of, it's kind of funny because when I, when I say this stuff, I'm, I'm really talking to myself most of the time.
Yeah.
I understand that.
Because I, Sarah, I think, One of the things I remember about you you and I both, that what we share is, we're both kind of nerdy in the tech area.
And to me, I, I just, I just am fascinated with all the, all the new stuff that's coming out.
I'm fascinated with the use of AI and fundraising and what, what the potential there.
And I, you know, I talked with my friends over at some of the other organizations and providers and, and I'll sit and I'll take up their time just talking about.
You know, what, what the potential is.
And also, I also really like doing the things like doing AB studies with our emails that we send out and I can get all up into that.
And it's really easy to get blinded by that for people like me and just, you know, focus on a computer screen all the time.
And when, when we do that what's going to happen is we're going to start seeing Yes.
Because we forget they're, they're tools and not.
What's really going on, you know, yeah, I, I, you know, and it's in my business, it's new.
I have a friend who challenges me all the time to pick up the phone and call people because he's like, if you want to make that sell, you just need to go pick up the phone and call people.
And he's right.
And it is, it becomes increasingly difficult the less you practice it.
Right.
Right.
Right.
Yes, and you know, and the, there's a few things that there's, there's a few things that you never, ever, ever should forget.
I got my pen and my paper here.
Well, I mean, you already know these, I mean, everybody knows them, they just forget them.
Yes.
And the, one of the very first things is you got to see the donor, not the dollar signs.
Yeah, that's great.
I mean, it's just, it is something that every fundraiser and every organization fights against, I think, is that.
That comment that our donors make, the only time I ever hear from you is when you're asking for money and you know, you can, you can send out five emails talking about the work that you're doing, you know, five emails that will be cultivating and one ask and that, and you'll get that the only time I ever hear from you is when you're asking for money because that ask is so big and it's such a big, powerful thing.
And what happens is, okay, you, All of a sudden, now we have a formula.
We send out these many emails and then we ask, well, those things are good, but what's bad about it is, is we forget to put the donor first and we forget that these are people.
And one of my one of my acquaintances and I'll call him a friend.
He may, I'll call him my friend is, is Dr.
Russell James out at Texas Tech, which If anybody ever can get a hold of Dr.
James books and teachings along with free online, they're absolutely golden, what he teaches.
But he I read a thing that he recently wrote that just really struck a chord with me.
And that is our donors give because of who they are, not because of who we are.
I like that.
And you know, this is, this is so true that people are generous and they, they give because that's in their nature to be generous.
And a really good fundraiser is somebody that really doesn't focus on the money, but focuses on relationships and focuses on the people.
And, you know, I, I met a man just recently at a, at an event that was held in Dallas and he was the president of a foundation for, can't remember the organization now, I'm sorry, and I apologize to him, but he was a president for a local foundation that, that, that did humanitarian aid work.
And everybody was talking about how to do the right ask, and he just kind of sat there and was quiet.
And I said, well, how do you do it? He said, I never ask.
He said, I never ask for money.
I'm like, well, that's interesting.
You never ask? No.
Why not? Don't have to.
All my donors, I know personally.
I tell them what the need is, and they give.
And, you know, that's, that's taking it to an extreme, but at the same time, it makes a really valid point that when we, when we put money first, we have just killed any relationship basically that, that we have and people, donors, like donors don't give because really.
The organization as much as it is somebody explaining a need to the, to us early on in my career.
I was out at I was, I was with the, the Indiana university fundraising people and early in their career, they, they said people don't give it organizations.
And that's, that's very true.
They don't give to organizations.
They give to people.
And they give to people in need.
So, you know, that's one of the, one of the biggest things that I, I, I try to share with people says, look, stop looking at dollar signs, look at your donors, what's her name, who are they? What's the name of their puppy dog? What's important to them and be, have the, have enough have enough ethics and enough value and value that person enough so that you have no qualms of saying, you know what, with your heart.
You need to give to somebody else because that's, that's where your heart is and I will hook you up with those people and let's, you can, we can do a lot of good there.
Yeah.
I love that you say that.
I, so one of the things I say all the time is that this is a coral reef, not a shark tank.
We, you know, we in the fundraising field our goal is to.
Help people identify what they're really passionate about and help them give and support that need it.
It can often be aligned with our organization, but sometimes it's not.
And if it's not, we've still given the gift to the world of a person supporting the thing that they adore.
Yes, that's exactly right.
That is exactly right.
And then the other thing, that thing that I would that I really try to teach people is, Never underestimate the power of a sense of sincere gratitude.
Yeah.
And, you know, we, we, and we talk about the, you know, we, you and I've talked about it.
We talked about the importance of calling people, writing the handwritten notes and things that, you know, it seemed, I said, oh man, I got to do this, got to do this.
Well, you got to show some gratitude.
You know, we underestimate the power of mail, you know, written mail and handwritten mail even more.
I send cards and I, I know that the power of a card and it's, it lasts for such a long time.
You know? Yeah.
And for a little kid, I started sending my nieces and nephews books through the mail.
So I, I try to get these books as rock cheap as I can get.
So I'm usually doing like library sales and stuff.
Cause I'm going to spend 10 bucks to get them to the kids, you know, but they don't get real mail.
And so to get something in the mail and, and it's not just these kiddos.
When was the last time you got real mail in the mail? I check my mail to see if I've gotten real mail and Amazon's the one that does the best delivery, right? They give us real mail.
And so, and, and they've built a empire on that.
And so what could happen if you actually just sent the card to somebody? Yes, and if you look at the at the stats and all this that it's, it's, it's showing the power of direct mail again.
And this is, this is the thing, you know, through the through the nineties, the two thousands, early two thousands, we were all up.
Email, you know, the power of email and look at all this.
And then as it, as it morphed, it went in all the power of social media.
The power of social media is going to be what's raising all the money, et cetera, et cetera.
But direct mail just continued to stay doing its thing.
And now the power of direct mail showing that it is actually increasing.
I just read, I just read a an article about for example, about the newest generation, which is what is it? I don't know what their letter is.
And and it, what, what shocked me was the the power of video for like boomers and millennials and, you know, Gen Xers and that power video is really strong.
The new, the new generation is this week is, I mean, significantly weak and it's back to writing a letter and being personal.
And that's, if you're going to use video, you've got to use it in a different way that actually stands out to them.
I, I will tell you, I've had one person, Brian Ford, he was on the show several weeks ago.
The first time I sent him a LinkedIn message, he did a video response.
Where he actually talked to me, like, you know, it was actually him and he responded to what I had said.
And I thought, wow, like that was so powerful to me, but.
It, you know, in general, the videos on Facebook last half a second.
Now I still have a memory of his LinkedIn direct message video, but the reason was it stood out.
And so the nice thing about direct mail is that now it really stands out because it's such a rarity.
And I'm not saying that video doesn't work because it does.
I mean, all of these things work, all these things.
But, but we need to realize that the, that direct mail.
A personal note and, and the power of sincere gratitude goes a long ways.
And sincere gratitude, a lot of times it's really hard to show because we are just so busy and we, we've got, we've got this project due, we've got this dinner to put on, this all busy.
Okay.
We did the projects and whoo, let's take a break.
Well, you know, somewhere out there.
The donors saying, you know, I, I gave them a significant amount of money to do this, this good work that I really care about.
I really, really like know if I, if it really made a difference.
Yeah.
I really, I really like these people.
I I'd like to know that I'm more than just, just, you know, a check to them.
Yeah.
And this, you know, this gets back, I mean, this is at the found, you talk about getting back to basics.
This is as basic as it gets, and we build everything else on that.
And, you know, we talk about we can talk about moves management and the moves management, the whole thing has to be built on this idea of the relationship and showing gratitude and saying, thank you.
And we take our, our, our donors that come in at the base of our pyramid.
If if you're using a pyramid or the base of your mountain, whichever Metaphor you want to use.
And we show them gratitude and we get them to make a second gift.
And, and you just keep moving it up and you always make them feel special.
You know, they are, right.
Because they are the ones that allow you to do the amazing things you get to do.
Like that's so big.
Exactly.
And then, you know, we, we forever, we have talked about sustainability and really at the core, I mean, the very core of sustainability is going to be this relationship thing.
Yeah.
And the way that we can make and build a deeper relationship with individuals, I mean from, from our organization like me to the donor.
And the deeper relationship we can have the donor feel more a part of the organization, what's going on, the more sustainable it's going to be, and the more they're going to, they're going to work up that ladder.
And you know, every, every place I've been, we have had donors go from, go from bottom all the way up to the top and leave us a state gift.
And every place I go, I said, guys, we get this estate gift.
This is, this is holy.
I mean, because these are these people's life lives work and you really have to honor these people.
They're trying to leave a legacy and you gotta, we have to do, we have to do due diligence to make sure that legacy is right.
Yeah.
If you, if you get to hold the sacred in your hands, then you need to honor what is in your hands.
Yes, I agree.
I, so I work with a lot of nonprofits.
Who are, you know, they're not making the asks.
We say that giving has changed, but we've changed, right? We as fundraisers have made these significant shifts off of the basics.
It's, and I, I always want to encourage people and I want to ask you, so I'm going to ask you a question on your work at Park Bench.
But, so I believe when we do get back to these basics, You will, every single time, see that when you ask and when you care, it will always be productive.
So, does it typically work? Do you typically get payment? Are you usually able to get a 20 percent increase? Yes.
I believe it.
I believe people have not changed as much as we say they have.
What has changed has been, culturally, a move away from intimate, meaningful relationship.
Yeah.
And, and it's it, you know, you think back about it, people that start nonprofits, for example the, the founders, and we can talk about founders, founder syndrome and all that fun stuff, but we're not going to go there, but, but just think about people that start the nonprofits.
They may not have all the knowledge that they need or no, they don't.
And they really don't know what they're getting into when they start in the nonprofit world.
Almost 98 percent of the time.
I'm going to get it.
Yes, but, but they have passion.
Yes.
And anybody that joins them is their friend and hey, let's do this together and people that join that person like, yes, I care about these, these people my, my daughter, one of my daughters, Chelsea, I have four daughters, it's four daughters.
That's why I have a white beard, but that's another story.
I've got my C daughter, Chelsea.
She is she started a little organization that takes care of people that have severe developmental problems.
Okay.
Now these people, they in the public schools, they have programs for, for people and for students, but when they turn 18 or 19, they age out of the public schools.
And then in our community, there's no place for them to go, no place to go learn, you know, life skills or.
Even to give their, their parents or caretakers a respite, anything.
And so my daughter Chelsea saw this because we have a friend that's in that situation.
And so she started this, this nonprofit to do that, to take care of them.
The girl has no idea what to do about nonprofits, about running a nonprofit.
Yeah.
She, and I'm, I'm constantly Chelsea, you really need to get some software to help you with your.
Donations.
You need to be tracking the donations that I just don't understand that.
Well, you got to do this, Chelsea, you know, turn into dad and when somebody else gives her the advice, maybe she'll listen, she'll be like, oh, I think dad said something like that, but people hear this, they see what she's doing and those that have a heart for it or immediately I'm going to help.
I want to help.
I want to give you this money and I may not be, I may not come up and volunteer, but I want to help.
I want to be a part here.
How much you need? And that's, that is for.
Where I find that the, the older organizations, we have to get back to people that have that kind of passion and heart that are truly grateful for, for what the donors are doing and make the donors feel like they're actually a part of solving this big problem.
That's where we are.
Sorry, I keep interrupting you.
I didn't mean to interrupt you.
I think you're right.
And I think that the younger.
Nonprofit people just need to be trained, right? They just don't know.
They don't know what they don't know.
They don't know what they don't know.
And yes, they, they, they need to be trained not to, not to see dollar signs, which is hard.
I mean, really, I get it.
It's hard.
I've, I've been at the smaller organizations that I didn't know if I was going to get a paycheck or not, and it's, it's hard.
It's, it's hard not to see dollar signs in those, those situations but that's, yeah.
As a business owner, I experience the same thing, So I do understand it is hard, but when you are able to, it, it grows itself, right? Yes.
Yeah.
And it, it, we do a lot of work with, when we work with organizations.
We do a lot of work with what we're just talking about and some of that you mentioned earlier in our conversation about do a lot of work with, with, with getting that, that particular statement, why people should give to me, or why should I give my money to you type of thing, or case, you know, we call it the case for support.
And, and, and making sure people and the development people that we work with making sure that that's where they base their, their messaging, because that's that, you know, that's, that's what's, what's got to hit home.
So.
You have a case for support.
You have a need that needs to be met.
You have the people, the resources, as far as the knowledge and the connections to meet a particular need in our society.
And you find people that have the same desire to help and everybody's grateful for each other.
Yeah.
And you know, that's, that's it.
It's truly interconnected.
It's truly.
Yeah.
I posted something on Facebook.
It was like saying that we become a quilted quilted pattern, right? We weave ourselves together.
And I loved that analogy that we weave ourselves together and become.
Yeah.
I'm so grateful that you, you mentioned that because in my work, that's where, that's where we start.
And people don't think when, when I say that I train grant writing.
And I don't start with grant writing, you know, immediately we have to get all of these other pieces in place.
And when they're in place, everything else can fall together.
Any of your asks at any level are so much easier when you have these foundational pieces, because now You don't have to create that every time you're with the donor.
And for you, it feels better because you feel prepared.
And for the donor, it's so much more informative because they get exactly the information that they need.
Right.
And then they can come up with and, and then that's when we start to see the lights come on and you get to see the joy, you know, sometimes when we.
Do it the other way around the fundraiser is overwhelmed, which you can hide it, but it leaks out.
It, you know, it leaks out when we're overwhelmed or we don't feel like.
we're making a good case or we don't feel like we're making the right ask, that leaks out.
And then the donor leaves confused.
They're not sure what they can do to help you or to help your organization.
You know, they're not feeling like they're useful in this.
relationship and that they have a purpose and a part of it.
And so, yeah.
And so when we do this, it resolves both sides.
Our donor gets what they need and we as fundraisers get what we need, which is just to know what we, exactly what we're supposed to be saying and talking about.
And can reference, you know, at back at the organization, or we just are able to have, show up and be present for that conversation in a real and true way, because we're not overwhelmed with all this other stuff in our head.
You're exactly right.
You know, the whole thing about authenticity and relationships and it's all, it's all part of it, whether you're doing business or like what you're doing or what you're doing, the front line fundraising.
You gotta, you gotta see people where they are and you gotta understand the circumstances and you know, everybody's got a story and you need to see where you fit in that story.
And those are sacred gifts.
It's a sacred gift to be involved in.
It's why I love, I don't want to say I love fundraising, maybe.
I tend to be, I just love people, you know, at the core of me, I just love people.
I do this no matter what aspect of work I'm doing.
I don't mind fundraising because I feel like it's just another opportunity to have relationships, but I value people and I see value in every single person that I interact with.
And so, and I think that when nonprofit.
Workers get to do that.
They're in a place where they thrive anyway, you know? And so it's such a blessing.
Yes.
I fundraising is like, it was like, so, so my dad my, my, my dad was a preacher and that's what he did and he delivered his last sermon when he was 94 years old.
And it was a, it was a really good sermon, but I remember when I was in college.
Asked my dad, dad, do you ever think about quitting preaching? And he looked at me and said, every Monday morning.
And that's kind of like fundraising.
You know, I love the people I love.
I love sharing ideas.
I love the fact that I could be part of helping a solution to a big problem.
But.
Yeah, sometimes it's just like, man, this is just too much because it is, it's a lot of, it's a lot of work and not only is it a lot of work, it's, it's busy and a lot of, a lot of people to see, a lot of, a lot of airplanes to get on a lot of handwritten notes to write, it just, it's a lot of work.
On and on and on.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, I'm telling you, you're going to be well prepared when you transition into being Santa Claus in retirement because you'll have all those skills to back you up.
Yeah.
You know, and really the whole Santa Claus thing that, that, that's really kind of the heart of it because when I'm, when I am Santa Claus, I am there for those kids.
And I am there for those families and I see in those kids eyes, you know, how they light up and I see that the twinkle and I'm able to go into that, that, that, that.
That little fantasy world that they have in their brain, and be a part of that story, and, and give them joy.
It's the same thing in fundraising.
People have this, this idea, not that it's a fantasy, it's reality.
That we can make a difference in this world, and the world would be such a great place if we all just worked together.
And yes, you're exactly right, it could.
And some people, some people are able to go to some, some country and roll up their sleeves and do something.
Some people can't do that, but they have some funds that they want to make it happen and put the two together.
Yeah.
That's a perfect place, I think, to transition to the, and I want to make sure that our listeners know where they can reach you and where they can get ahold of you.
So what's the best way to find you and get in contact with you? Well, If, if you want to talk about missions and WorldVenture and what we do at WorldVenture, it is the letter T, like my name, Tim, t.
johnson at WorldVenture.
com Park Bench Fundraising thing is Tim at ParkBenchFundraising.
com and the Santa business, it's dfw.
santatim at gmail.
com.
At gmail.
com at Gmail.
All right.
I got it.
Well, thanks Tim.
It was great catching up with you and having this conversation.
I can't wait for the listeners to hear it.
Because I do think so often we try to create complex solutions to complex problems.
And more often than not, there are simple solutions to complex problems.
You know, we never did talk about.
COVID and that kind of stuff.
Well, we'll have to have another talk.
So we'll, we'll do that next time.
for thinking of me.
I really appreciate it.
Yes.
Well, thank you for being on.
It was so great because I knew, I knew this would be a great conversation.
So to our listeners, I want to for joining and you can tune in next time.
Thank you so much for tuning in to this episode of Nonprofit411.
I hope you found today's conversation as insightful and inspiring as I did.
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