Latest / Unashamed Table Talk / Getting Out Of The Pit Of Shame!

Transcript

Getting Out Of The Pit Of Shame! · Unashamed Table Talk

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I learned something new today.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_02: Denise has singing dogs.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they sing every night.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_02: That is so silly.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_02: We just started a podcast and it wasn't going anywhere good, just to be honest.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_02: But all of a sudden, all I hear is a bunch of howling.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_02: And Denise just starts laughing.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_02: And it's she said, It's I said, What is that noise?
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_02: And she says, Oh, it's just my dogs singing.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_02: They sing every night.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_02: They howl every night.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: BJ says, Do you need to feed them or something?
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: No, they just every night they howl.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: They have a little trio going out there.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: And then they just stop.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: And then they just stop.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, all at the same time, every time.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: So anyway, we're just uh sitting here thinking, we are so excited about Unashamed in Hot Springs.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_02: No, I had never been.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_02: And so we're planning this conference in Hot Springs, and I had never been until we went down just a couple of months ago.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_02: And oh my goodness, it was amazing.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_02: It was so fun.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_02: Y'all, there's this one place in Hot Springs, and Denise says, if we walk down here a little bit further, we can sit down and we can put our feet in.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_02: And y'all, she lied.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_02: You you cannot.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_02: And if you don't want skin, if you don't want skin to stay on your feet, you can.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_02: It's just like boiling water.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_02: She tells this old man, y'all.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_02: This is a true story.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_02: She tells this old man who can't hardly breathe or walk.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_02: If you just walk down the farther, like we are, then you can put your feet in in this little pool down there.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_02: And this poor old man, 45 minutes after we done knew you couldn't do it.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_02: He finally shows up.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_02: And old man almost all the way in.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_02: Turns out he has no feelings in his legs.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_02: So he got to put his feet in.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_02: And he got no skin back when he pulled his feet out.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: So dramatic.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: But to be fair, I do did not remember it being that hot.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_02: It was hot.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_02: It was very, very hot water.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_02: You could not just soak in it.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_02: And it reminds me we got to talking about the bathhouses.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_02: And last year at the Amen conference in Longview, I had made a promise to a friend of ours that in hot springs I would go to one of the bathhouses with her.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm thinking, like, we're all gonna go.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_02: Well, then we're we're walking around hot springs and we're just talking and you know, being friends and scoping everything out for the conference and being friends.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you know, that's what we do.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_02: We just be friends.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_02: And then I said something about the bathhouses, and Denise starts telling me, she said, You gotta be naked.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, No, you don't.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_02: And we have this whole argument that you either have to be naked or you don't have to be naked.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, Well, I ain't getting naked, I'm not doing it.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_02: And so I'm like, you cannot have to be naked to be in these things.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna be in a swimsuit.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_02: And Denise is telling me, y'all, no, I'm telling you, you gotta be naked.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_02: People have told me you got to be naked.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_02: And y'all, you ain't got to be naked to go to the bathhouse.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_02: You can't, you can be naked in a private bathhouse, but you're by yourself.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_02: You're naked by yourself.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_02: I'm still not gonna do that either.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_02: But when you go with friends, you're not naked.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_02: In case you're wondering.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: Thank goodness.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_02: If you decide to join us in hot springs, apparently the bathhouses are a lot of fun, and we want you to have fun in hot springs outside of just the fun you're gonna have at the conference.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_02: But if you're concerned, I have confirmed with the officials in Hot Springs at the visitor center that you don't got to get naked.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_02: So there you go.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so first of all, okay, obviously, I don't always know what I'm talking about.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_01: And the the people coming like just holding up a towel, just different things.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: So this is what I want to know.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna get into biblical serious things here in just a second.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: But for all of you that are listening, there's got to be someone out there.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: You want validation.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: And yes, I do.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: Because I have been told something different.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm just saying if you're listening to this podcast and you have had a traumatic bathhouse experience or have heard a story.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe it wasn't traumatic, maybe they wanted to be naked.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, well, that's a whole nother podcast.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: Because and the privacy of your own little bathtub, fine.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: So join us with all your microphones.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_02: Please wear clothes to Hot Springs, Arkansas, September 25th and 26th.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_02: The conference is just lots of worship and Bible teaching and shopping and getting to just get away and unplug and unwind for a few days.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_02: And so we encourage you to make a weekend of it.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_02: Tickets are$56, I think.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_02: Is that right?
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_02: That includes all the fees and taxes and everything.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_02: So go to unashamedww.com and and check out our website.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_02: First off, we're really excited that our website is finally finished in live.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_02: So uh you can get links to the retreats and conferences that we do there.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_02: But we're really excited about Hot Springs September 25th and 26th.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: Drive up and come and hang out with us on a Friday evening, and then go have fun with your friends.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_01: Come back Saturday morning, have a blast, be done by one o'clock at the latest, and uh enjoy hot springs for the rest of the weekend.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: And it's a good time.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: So so BJ.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: Oh no, you look serious.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's time to switch gears.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: So you were sharing a story with me about um being at church and a particular person bringing up some things from your past, and it wasn't just one time, but it was a few times, and um, and that just really kind of shook your world a little bit, like it kind of you went through all the emotions, right?
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: First it was kind of like a dismissive top thing, but then you kind of got frustrated and angry, then there was the shame that set in, and then just so many different things.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_01: So start share share about that.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_02: So it really started this this person found out that I used to work at the strip clubs uh locally in Tyler at Timeout.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_02: And okay, so first let me I need to just back up.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_02: So this has been a long time ago, more than 20 years ago, that this this season of my life, and I have run into old customers and old co-workers many times.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_02: Never, especially once I was a Christian, once I was born again and get surrendered my life to Christ, never have I gone up to somebody and be like, oh girl, you remember when we used to take off our clothes for money?
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like ew.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_02: Like I would never, I never have gone up to a man that I recognize and say, Oh, you remember when you gave me money for that?
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_02: Like, ew.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_02: I would never do that for anybody's past, first off, you know.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that there are times where we know somebody's past and we don't, whether we know they've been changed or not, sometimes it's hard for us to not remember their past, you know.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that that's a real thing.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_02: But in this instance, this man had found out that I used to work at this club and uh he's always been kind of old man flirty, not creepy, but also like he would always do it kind of in like like it's gonna sound bad, but like in front of Jay, because he used to say things like, You better take care of that beautiful wife, or I'm gonna try to steal her, you know, just stupid old man stuff.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_02: Not creepy, but also now I'm just like ew.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_02: But um, so he finds out that I used to work in these clubs, and he starts just like searching his memory because he was, in his words, a charter member there.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_02: And he knows the owners and they were great people and blah, blah, blah, all this crap.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, you don't know those people.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_02: I worked for them.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they were not good people, right?
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_02: You know, um, and he would make the jokes, and and oh my soul Denise, I've heard him so many times about the buffet, they come for the buffet, you know, like you go to the hooters for the wings, like, no, you don't.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_02: You go to Hooters for the Hooters, yeah.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_02: You go to the strip club for the naked women, not for the buffet.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_02: Like, and so he was he just started making all these little jokes, and then but he what really like that grossed me out, and it bothered me because I'm like, first off, we're in church.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_02: Not that it would have made me any less grossed out at McDonald's, but we're in church, and you're trying to really just celebrate who you were if you were changed, and who I was, knowing I'm changed, to the darkest piece of my life, literally the darkest season of my life.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sitting on the front row of church, and my husband's running all over the place saying hi and talking to all of his buddies at church, and he just comes up and sits.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_02: This this guy comes up and just sits beside me, and I really have gotten where I just avoid him, honestly, at this point.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_02: But um, he comes up and he sits beside me, and we just kind of talk.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_02: I ask about his wife and has some health problems and different things.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_02: And so then he just gets up and then he just stops and he kind of like slaps his knee and he just looks at me real intent and he says, Oh, I just gotta remember you.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_02: I just can't believe I don't remember you.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_02: I've got to remember.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_02: And he's like looking at me and like trying to remember me and naked at the strip club being naked at the strip club.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_02: And I I have to believe that he didn't mean that response.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think I really don't think that.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know what the other options were, but I don't think that he was just being cruel.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_02: But at the same time, I'm just like, why would you ever celebrate that?
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_02: But in that moment, it was like I was that person again.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_02: I was no longer the redeemed, no longer unashamed of my past.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_02: I was definitely right back in that shameful, broken season.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_02: And I just wept.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, my husband worship starts and he comes and sits by me, and I'm already just weeping, really.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_02: And my husband's like, Are you okay?
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, I'm fine.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_02: And I mean, the, you know, if and then of course, every song that Billy Johnson starts singing is about, you know, our shame and no longer being who we were.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_02: And and the more he sang about shame and not being caught up in our shame, the more I just cried.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_02: And my husband's just like, Are you okay?
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_02: He finally went and got me some tissues.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_02: We're again, we're right on the front row, so the tissues are right there.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_02: But it was just gross.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_02: And it's just unbelievable how, like I'm telling you, this is like almost three decades ago that this time in my life had come.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I've been a Christian for about almost 25 years now, 24 years.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_02: And like it was yesterday, I was taken right back to how I felt on that stage selling myself to these men.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I just I I couldn't understand, first off, why he would even do that.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like, why are you not ashamed of who you were then?
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_02: Because I am.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I'm not ashamed of who I am today in Christ.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I can share about those seasons of my life.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_02: I share openly about my abortion.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_02: I share openly about when I worked in the strip clubs, and like I I can share about all of that because it's not who I am.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_02: It I was broken and I was in sin, and Jesus redeemed me and rescued me and pulled me out of that, and he changed my whole life, and it does not define who I am today.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_02: But to then go and like I you will never hear me celebrate those days in my life.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_02: And to have somebody in the church, no less, basically bragging about that time in his life and trying to remember me in that time, like it just made me feel gross.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_02: It just really did.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um my husband's handled that situation, by the way.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_02: And uh in fact, the next week I was headed to church and Jay had security, and I just kind of snuck in and sat very privately by myself.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_02: And then as soon as the invitation started, which I hate people that do this, but I got up and left because I didn't want to get, I didn't want to see any, I didn't want to talk, I didn't want to run into him.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I was by myself.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_02: My husband wasn't even with me.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_02: He was working security, and so I just left.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_02: I was halfway home and my husband texted me.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_02: He said, Where are you at?
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, I'm headed home.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_02: He said, Well, what are you doing?
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_02: I said, I just didn't want to run into nobody.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_02: I just didn't, I just wasn't, he said, babe, I promise you that will never happen again.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_02: I have, we have, I have talked to him.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_02: But anyways, long story to share is I just want to know, have you ever had a situation where your past creeps back up and it takes you back to there?
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_02: And you know you've been saved, you know you've been redeemed, um, you know you're forgiven, but how awful is the enemy to to make you take you to take you right back to that sinful season and feel just gross.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's a you know, it's like um we're never gonna forget all the, you know, we may forget some little things here and there, but we're never gonna forget the person that we used to be.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I think for I can just speak for me personally, it's good that I don't forget who I used to be because I don't want to be that person again, you know?
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: And um, but that shame that you were talking about, I mean, there's so much in that story, but first of all, I think my first thought was the the guy that was bringing it up and boasting about it like he was it's it was like he was being proud, right, of of that lifestyle.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like, why why boast about no even if they were good people to have a place that is like that, that's that's not a good place.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like, why would you even be bragging about being a charter mayor?
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like that's what I'm saying.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_02: I'm watching a bad show on TV and I won't even tell anybody about it because I don't want anyone to know that I did it.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_01: Also learned that what you call trashy TV and what I thought was trashy TV was two different things.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: Well, yeah.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: Because I do remember, like, you would say something about watching trashy TV, and I'm thinking we're in ministry together, and we're we're we're doing all of these things, and I'm like, I'm thinking, okay, look, we're fit to have to have a conversation about this trashy TV.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what if but but and I it was funny because I remember that it was kind of starting to bother me a little bit, and I thought, I'm I'm fixing to have this, like I'm fixing to ask her.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like, because in my mind, watching trashy TV, she's sitting here watching stuff that's like dropping F-bombs constantly, and you know, porno on the TV, you know, she's just watching full-on sex scenes and all the thing.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: And to me, that's trashy TV, right?
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: That's real trashy TV.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and then you said something about don't judge me.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: I watch so and so.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: I know it's trashy TV, and I remember I don't even remember what the show is.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_01: I don't remember either, but you watched it too.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: I remember I was like, you call that trashy TV, and you were like, Well yeah, because what and I was like, oh my gosh, no, I I wasn't calling that trashy TV.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um now we can still be friends because my trashy TV is not the same as her trashy TV.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so anyway, but but feeling that shame and feeling that guilt.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: And um I think the enemy is very good at I even want to stop this sentence because I just had a conversation with my friend Jeannie about this today, about us being our own worst enemy.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_01: And we talked about Satan and the world that we live in and different things, but but the enemy is good about bringing um up the past, right?
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_01: To remind us of the past, of the things that we've done.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: And the only reason he does is to hold us back, right?
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_01: You being caught up, me being caught up in shame and guilt.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: I've done things that I've thought back on from something will happen and it will remind me, or that desire for that thing or whatever might come up, and then I'm just like, like, no, I can't do that, you know, or whatever, or I start thinking about something I was engaged in that I had no business being engaged in.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: And then what happens is I just start feeling guilt, I start feeling shame, and I want to start to isolate.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to get on here and do a podcast, I don't want to make a video, you know, or any of those things because I start feeling like I'm really such a failure and I'm real crappy.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: You know.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: But the reality is that God already redeemed that, yes, I am a real crappy person, you know.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like I am nothing without him.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: I had to put it on my arm right here.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: It says, Jesus, I'm nothing without him, to remind me because really I'm not.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm not, I'm not.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: If it's left up to me, I'm just a hot mess, you know.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: And so that shame and that guilt is used to hold us back, to keep us down, to interrupt and hinder the relationship that we have with Jesus and that we have with others.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: God brings conviction.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: And so the conviction is that's it gets out of that though.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: That's like different.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: The conviction is for us to learn from it, to repent from it, to grow from it, and to move forward.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's not conviction that comes for that time until we repent.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: That shame that's from the enemy.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: But at the same time, I think I told you this when we were in your house too.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, you know, when we do think back on the things that we did on certain things, like there should be a sadness that comes.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_02: I might tell you what, y'all, this is one of the things I love most about Denise because this is again the enemy, because I had already dealt with the Sunday.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_02: My husband has already, I've talked it through with my husband who I adore, and he loved me through the, you know, the tears of the day, and I'm fine.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_02: And then that night or the next night, I'm on the phone with you, and or you were there.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_02: We were over there pinking.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_02: We were painting.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_02: And and I was like, I know it's so dumb to be so upset about this.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I know because I talk about I talk about that time in my life all the time.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I do it without shame.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_02: We founded the unashamed conference.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_02: We do not live in our shame.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_02: So for me to be ashamed all of a sudden, I was just like, then I'm beating myself up because of that.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_02: And then you were, you were just, first off, you're just so good of a friend.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_02: But then you said what you wrote.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: I don't even remember exactly how I said it, but I was just like, when we there's nothing wrong with feeling sad about it.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we can't get caught up and stuck in the shame and the guilt, but there's nothing wrong with when when we're reminded of where we are or where we were, there should be a sadness that comes because that was a different life.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: It was a different time where we were separated from Christ.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_01: So why wouldn't we feel a little sad about that?
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like, don't beat yourself up for being sad about it, but you got to kind of move on.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, like I I shouldn't look back at some of the worst things I done and be like, oh my God.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's like what the guy did.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, well, I used to be, if I look back at it that way, then there's some there's something wrong in my heart.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_02: But I think I think that kind of the point is that it's okay that it made me sad, but I don't have to be ashamed.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have to be ashamed because God's already taken care of it.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: You can be sad about it, but then you you just have to move on, you know, because you're not that person anymore.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_02: But isn't that just it just makes me just crazy that that is what the enemy does is because even though like he he used the situation to make me feel gross, and then he used the making me feel gross to then be ashamed of me feeling gross.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like he just like just piles on when it you should have felt gross about it.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: I should have felt gross.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and we are our own worst enemy and things like that.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: We want to beat ourselves up.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: And and I I wrote this down actually for another podcast.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's on this piece of paper.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_01: And and this is me being technical about some things sometimes, but um we say, you know, Satan does this, Satan takes that and he twists it, and he does, right?
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: But I Satan can't be everywhere at one time.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: Uh he doesn't have that ability or that power.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't think that I'm a big enough threat to the enemy for Satan to come mess with me personally.
• 21:42
  unknown: Yeah.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: But he's got a host of minions.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: He does.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: And we live in a wicked world.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: And we live in a sinful world, and these things are just all around us.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_01: And so we are our own worst enemies sometimes.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_01: We do.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Beat ourselves up over things that we've done in the past.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: And that is stuff that has stemmed from the world that Satan has had control over when it comes to the darkness of the world.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: That's where that comes because the light of the world says uh don't set in that shame and that guilt.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't bring shame and guilt.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: I brought conviction.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: You admitted it.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: You asked forgiveness.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: You turned from it.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: Now move on.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: Just like the scripture, we we've gone back to it two or three times now in Luke.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: I prayed that you would not lose your faith.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: But when you do, you turn around to me and then go and encourage your brother.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: So I turn and repent and then go and encourage.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: And the fact that he died for us, knowing in advance what we were going to do.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: And we've we've talked about that.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm never going to get over that.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: God knew that I was going to take my daughter.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: I hadn't talked about this a whole lot, but I used to take I I in the highest part of my addiction as a mother.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, there were different stages, but as a mother, I had a truck that had a back seat that folded down.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I would fold that seat down, and I bought an egg crate and I cut it to fit in that back seat.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: So that when I drove over to the crack house with my daughter, then I would put that seat down, lay that foam thing out, set a little blanket, put some toys, prop a baby bottle up in the corner, and leave my daughter sitting there feeling like and making and justifying it.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: She's safe.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_01: I have her locked in the truck.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: She's on this phone thing.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: She can't go anywhere.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_01: She's not gonna get hurt.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: She's got her toys, she's got her bottle her Bible.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: There was no Bible around.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: She's got her bottle, right?
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_01: She's fine.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_01: She's and I justified every bit of that.
• 23:51
  unknown: Yeah.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and then go in and do what I wanted to do, spend time in there, whatever, and then come out and then put that stuff up, put her in her car seat, and then drive back to the house.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like, hi.
• 24:04
  unknown: Yeah.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: Hi is all get out, right?
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I justified all it.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_01: When I look back on that now, I think what an idiot I was, you know.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: And then I said, then I just get really excited to think Jesus knew, God knew I was going to do those stupid things.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: And he died on the cross for me anyway.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: Because of those stupid things, he died on the cross for me, knowing in advance what I was going to do.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_02: You know, and we can look back, it's so, you know, just human nature.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_02: But like I can look back and I just praise the Lord for first off keeping you alive in Dakota alive in that season.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_02: Because we both have very similar, stupid things that we did.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_02: Horrible hor not even stupid, horrible things that we did as humans.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but somehow we were protected through that.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but when when we are now living in like you have shared before, like once you were a Christian and you'd go over to Dakotas and and she was making bad choices as a mom, like you just get furious, mad, and you just want to just, you know, wring your neck.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_02: And I did the same thing.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_02: Or worse.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_02: I did do worse.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_02: You know, but it's but it's like, but that's not who we are anymore.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_02: Like we're better.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_02: So now we expect them to be better.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_01: I thought I was a better drug addict than her.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_02: I thought I was a more responsible addict.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_02: Because she she had a phone crate.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: I locked the doors and everything.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't have all these strange people living in my house, you know, go big go.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_01: And again, we justify.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_01: We justify.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_02: And we like to measure our sin against somebody else's sin.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_02: And it it that's just stupid.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_02: Sin is sin.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_02: And we we have talked about sin being sin, and that's true and not true at the same time.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_02: But uh the the bottom line is your sin should not define who you are today.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_02: If you are in Christ, you are a new creation.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_02: And um, yes, your sin, your past sin, your current sin can make you sad, but it should not stomp you and stop you um from sharing that.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_02: And going back to that scripture, that same Luke scripture, to once you once you've repented and your faith is restored, feed my people or whatever.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_02: Encourage.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_02: Encourage.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_02: Encourage your brothers.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_02: Encourage your brothers.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um but then later on, once Peter's denied him and Christ is risen from the dead, and he says, Do you love me?
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_02: Feed my people, do you love me?
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like he goes into this like the three times of Do you love me?
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_02: Do you love me?
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_02: Do you love me?
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_02: Do you love me?
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_02: And and just that restoration.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_02: But then, which and this is like this sounds like I'm bragging about me.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_02: It's really, it's so not about me because I'm so gross.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_02: Even today, there's pieces of me that's gross, right?
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_02: But Jesus is so good, and he is so great and gracious and full of all things, of so much mercy, that I have been able to travel to Tennessee to speak for a sex trafficking group that was primarily to women in the industry still, still stripping on a regular basis, selling themselves on the street or on a stage.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_02: And God allowed me to go and speak to them, you know, and and to give them a copy of my book.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I've got to run a ministry for women who chose abortion.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_02: And like, what a gift that is.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_02: You know, and it's not, I you will never hear me brag about any of those things in my life, but I will brag until I take my last breath, Lord willing, that I will brag that Jesus has used those ugliest pieces of my life to draw people out of the same mud pit that I once was in, caught up in sin and gross brokenness.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_02: And now God allows me to use it for his glory.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what he does.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like that is the gospel right there.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's the whole Bible is about uh turning from your sin, repenting, and then using it, using your junk to bring others to come to know him, right?
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_01: And so that it's such a beautiful picture.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_01: And um I I just wonder for those that are listening right now, uh, maybe you're driving to work this morning or cleaning your home or taking care of children or wherever you might be, and and maybe there's this sin that you've been in or in the past, and you have not been living out your full potential in Christ because you're so ashamed and feel guilty for what you've done in the past, and you're letting the enemy hold you back.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: And and we just want to encourage you today, and and this is why we do our unashamed uh conferences and those things, is like it's a time to come together and remind you that you are important and that you are loved and that God wants to use you right where you are, and that is the enemy that's keeping you in that shame and that guilt.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_01: That's not God.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_01: Look, God said, I we've already we've already paid the price and the penalty for that.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_01: Pick your head up, look up and move forward and share.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's so hard, I think, sometimes for people to share their testimony, to share the ugly.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_01: You know, people don't want to admit sometimes some of the ugly because they're embarrassed and and ashamed or they think people are gonna judge them.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: And and look, here's the thing, some might.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, they're gonna.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_02: There are some.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_01: There's gonna be people that are gonna judge you.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: There's gonna be people that have judged BJ that's judged me, that judge, but but there is so much freedom that comes when you're able to just get it out and let God use it for his glory.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's so much freedom.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like you said, you don't walk in shame anymore.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you had a moment where he kept bringing it up, but but you know there's no reason for you to walk in shame anymore because he already took care of that.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, do I like the choices that I made?
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_01: There's stuff I did, and and I hate to say it, but it's the truth that I don't even remember.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_01: What I do know is that I'm not that person anymore, and I don't have to walk in shame from that because that's who I was, but who I am today is who God's created me to be.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_01: I still fall, but I get up so much faster now because God has redeemed me from all of that.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_01: Surely he's gonna redeem me from the stupid that I do now.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_01: Right, because he's faithful.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's not about me, it's not about you.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's about his faithfulness.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so if you're least listening today, remember he's faithful and he loves you right where you are.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and hopefully, let's be real.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_02: Hopefully, our stupid is a little bit less stupid today than it was then.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_02: Because we've learned and we've grown in our faith and with a walk in the Lord.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_02: But um, a couple of things that I wanted to bring up before we close out is um the the enemy can always use your sin, especially first off, if it's unrepentant sin.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_02: If it is unrepentant sin, you are living in bondage.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um you can and you can be a Christian with unrepentant sin.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I think that when you get saved, you in general repent of your sin.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_02: That's that's part of that salvation process.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_02: But you have to acknowledge the sin in your life.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but specifically, you had kind of talked about this briefly, but or mentioned kind of this concept.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_02: But anytime that you have a secret sin, even if you have emotionally and spiritually yourself can you know confessed it and repented of it and and you're forgiven of it, if it's a secret sin, the enemy will always have you in bondage.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_02: If you do nothing else, you have to find a safe person, whether it's a counselor, a friend, your pastor's wife, a Sunday school teacher, somebody to be able to share that secret sin with, because the second it will leave your lips, I promise you those chains begin to break.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_02: And the enemy cannot use it against you any longer once I mean, well, he can, he can bring you back up, but he can't hold you in bondage of that sin as long as that is.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um it what and once it's no longer a secret, then he loses a lot of his power.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_01: And and all the things that we've done, not all of it's good to share with the world.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we can sit here and share our testimonies on different things, but there's some specific things that I don't want to sit here and share publicly on the podcast thing, you know what I mean?
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_01: Or in a group of people or whatever, but I might would sit down with an individual who is going through it and I would share it with them.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know, definitely.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_02: Well, not everyone is called to do that either.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, like I know, I know that, I know that I know we've talked about this as far as our speaking things and and when we speak together and in different venues, I know that I'm called to share my story.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_02: That is the call that God's placed on my life.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_02: And I think as speakers, we all intertwine pieces of our story.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't just usually, sometimes I do, but usually I don't just get up and say, Well, I was born on August 25th, 1975, and went still doing blah blah blah.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I don't start, I don't do that, but I always do share my pieces of my story everywhere I go because that I know that that's what God's called me to do.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_02: That is not what God has called you to do.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_02: And Tammy Wyhurst, again, we all share pieces of it, but that's not for everybody.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um but I share the ugliest pieces of my life because I want you to see the contrast.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_02: Because if you're in the ugliest pieces of your life, this is what Christ can do for you.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_01: And like for me, like God has blessed me and given me an opportunity to leave recovery.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_01: We do recovery alive every Monday night.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's kind of like how you were saying how God allowed you to be in the uh care for the abortion recovery and and different things like that, you know, uh uh going to speak at the sex trafficking thing.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like for me, it's like I I get to go and do this every Monday night and do recovery alive at our church.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_01: And and in that setting there at Recovery Alive, I share my junk all the time there, every day, you know, because that's what we do.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm there to help someone else.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_01: And and yeah, you're right.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like I think the the point I'm trying to make is when you're not living in shame of it anymore and you really understand the forgiveness that God has given you, you can walk in freedom with your head up high, knowing that you're not that person anymore.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_01: It looks different for everyone.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_01: Some can just share their story and use it, but then also I believe that there are parts of our story sometimes that it still needs to get out, but it may cause more harm than good.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_01: And that's not the tell the public, that's the tell the counselor, tell the friend, tell the that individual, because you still have to, you still need to tell someone so that you can talk it out and process it and find that healing through it.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_02: The other thing, as I would say, is that anytime that you feel like you have to brag almost in a broad bodacious way of this is what I did, and you're telling your testimony, and it's pointing to nothing but you and the crap you did, you've missed the point.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, yeah, you've missed the hope.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_02: I will start off all the time.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, I'm gonna share some ugly things with you about who I was, but don't get caught in my ugly because it's not about my ugly.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_02: The the whole point of me sharing my ugly is to point you straight to Jesus because He can fix you like He fixed me.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_01: The purpose of doing it is to give God glory and to give others hope.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_01: That if God can change me, He can change you.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_01: If God can free me from this, He can free you from whatever your stuff is.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_00: You've been listening to Table Talk with BJ Garrett and Denise Bowens.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_00: To support this ministry through prayer or giving, visit our website at unashamedww.com.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_00: May you be encouraged, rooted in truth, and unashamed.