Latest / The Eye of Jupiter Podcast / L55 Chris Kramer from the Arizona Four and The Mogollon Rim

Transcript

L55 Chris Kramer from the Arizona Four and The Mogollon Rim · The Eye of Jupiter Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hey guys.
• 0:01
  Speaker 2: This episode is with a good friend of mine, Chris Kramer.
• 0:04
  Speaker 2: He is a member of the Arizona Four, which is
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: a group of four friends who go up on the
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: Mogian Rib in Arizona as well of those other places,
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: but mostly there, and their encounters there with the forest
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: people or as they call the gain is just incredible.
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: I've had him on and Kevin Keeney, there's two of
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: the four members, and some of their experiences with the
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: mind speak and the things they're seeing and the experiences
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: are having out there, it's just mind blowing. And Chris
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: is a real dude. I love Chris. Chris is great,
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: very punctual, very to the point, doesn't hold any punches.
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: I think that's the word, not punctual, but doesn't hold
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: any punches. I think this might be a better way
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: of saying it. And we've been in contact since the beginning.
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: He was like episode four of the podcast, and I
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: had him back on after he decided to be a
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: little bit more upfront about what they've been experiencing. Actually,
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: when when I first reached out to him, I seen
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: him on some Facebook group or something and I was like, Oh,
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: who's this gentleman, and I called him and he goes,
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: I don't know who you are. I said, okay, let's talk.
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: And we literally, you know, called each other and talked
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: for like an hour and and he's just you know,
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: he was kind of he wasn't shy about it, but
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: he just didn't want people to get the wrong idea
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: about what was going on out there. And through time
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: we developed an incredible relationship. He often comes down here
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: to Mexico for vacation with his wife and his family.
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: So actually, this episode I believe was yeah, it was.
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: This episode was actually recorded while he was on vacation
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: in Mexico on the other side on the Pacific. I'm
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: over here on the Atlantic side. So that was pretty cool,
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: and we it's it's a it's a great episode. Okay, guys.
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: So you know, you can find me on all your
• 1:55
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• 1:57
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• 1:58
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• 2:01
  Speaker 2: over there, and you get to actually see, you know,
• 2:04
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• 2:07
  Speaker 2: the most part, I think I've had one that was
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: or two that was maybe just a picture. But you know, nonetheless,
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: you know, every Friday at six forty five pm Eastern time,
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: I have a live every week with amazing guests, everything
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: from Conspiracy to dog Man to you know podcasters, just
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: in people we've experiences. They don't even know how to
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: you know, put it into whatever, you know category that
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: you can think of off the top of your head.
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: So that that happens every Friday, every Tuesday at three
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: thirty Central time. That's when I dropped the regular regular program,
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: which is you know a little bit more you know,
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: cleaned up, because you know, when you listen to a
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: live on audio version like this, you're going to be
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: missing some of the visuals that are getting shown to me.
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: And even on some of the regular episodes too, they
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: show me, you know, pictures of what they've seen. You
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: get to hear the audio. That's cool, you know, sometimes
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: you get to hear that, you know, the bigfoot or
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: the yell or the grunt or something like that. So
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: that's always interesting. And uh yeah, you can follow me
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: on all the social media's except for X. I'm not
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: on X. I'm on Twitter. Not No, I'm not on
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: Twitter either. I'm not on either one of those, even
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: though they are the same.
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: Company.
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: I'm on a TikTok Instagram, Uh Facebook, have a Facebook
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: group over there. You guys can come over and check
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: us out. Uh, you know, check out all the other
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: podcasts that I work together with and all my moderators.
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: Pam Stefanish being like, you know, the awesome, you know,
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: the best. I got very lucky to meet here. But anyway, guys, uh,
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: you know, just you know, anyway you can support the
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: show is greatly appreciate it, and I really hope you
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: enjoyed this episode with Chris Cramer from the Arizona Four.
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: Welcome back to the I Jubiter Live. I'm your host
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: Tom Franklin. Today we have on Chris Kramer from the
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: Arizona four. I'm excited, you guys are excited. We're going
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: to get into some stuff and we're going to talk
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: about what they've been doing up there on the mom
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: Mogi him always mispronounced that. Even in my own mind,
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: I was shouting to do rumble today.
• 5:04
  Speaker 3: Guys, I've seen that it wasn't working as soon as
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: I clicked it on and said we're having problems with
• 5:08
  Speaker 3: one of your destinations.
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: So I still got to look into that. I will
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: do my best. It's going to be quite the journey
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: to figure that out. Let me give a shout out
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: to all my moderators. I have a ton of great moderators.
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: Let me make sure I get them all here on
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: the list.
• 5:22
  Speaker 3: I want to give a great shout out to Jim
• 5:25
  Speaker 3: from Fisher Spam's The Night Watch, Daniel Calhoun from Magical Journey,
• 5:33
  Speaker 3: Denise Denise is wonderful, my newest member Jeannette, and of
• 5:37
  Speaker 3: course the great.
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: And powerful Pam Stephanich.
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: So if you keep find yourself coming back to the
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: I Jupiter, please see me very likely subscribe channel, go
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: over and rumble, and you at least get some of
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: my episodes until I get the lies figured out. Over there,
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: you can also find all the MP three situations on
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: any of your podcasting things that you'd liked. Hey, what's
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: up Darren? Darren's already here. He was on check out
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: that live. That was really cool. You can get yourself
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: a T shirt and all that this is. You can
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: get to see some wonderful spelling here. Let me show
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: you some my great spelling. I still have to fix
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: this here. It is right here down into this description.
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: There's there's an S missing there below. If you guys
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: want to get yourself T shirt or whatever, you can
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: go ahead and do that, and maybe you can send
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: me a dictionary. With all that out of the way,
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: let's please welcome to the I jubiter my buddy Chris Kramer. Hey, buddy,
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: good to be here. Past Good to see you. So
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: you're on vacation in Mexico.
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: I am, I am. It's my favorite destination after the
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: Moggi on Rim. You know, we do the sasquat stuff
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: and then we do other stuff.
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so here here, guys. They have theirself a YouTube
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: channel that's right there in the description. You can also
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: find a description in the links below in the description,
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: go ahead and click on that and you can please
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: subscribe to the channel and check out what they're doing.
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: We're going to get into that, and they have also
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: it is a private Facebook group. To duck over there
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: and cause any ruck us or chaos, because my buddies
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: will make sure that you don't. But it's a great group,
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: very friendly, very kind. Their wives are in there, and
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: it's been nothing but fantastic since I've been allowed.
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: To the group.
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: So I had your buddy Kevin Keeney on and he
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: his episode is going to be dropping on Tuesday, and
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: that was quite quite an interesting episode. It's on the members, guys,
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: if you want to go to the members and check
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: it out, you can get some early content as well.
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: So where did you meet Kevin? And how did this
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: whole thing start?
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: Dude? So when I came to Arizona, See, Kevin and
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: I were online friends for a number of years on
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: a on like a private Facebook page. It was like
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: a group of deep experiencers and you know, researchers for
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: lack of a better term. So Kevin and I knew
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: each other from like, I don't know, twenty seventeen on
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: around there. And when I moved to Arizona in twenty twenty,
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: I linked up with CAV and Kevin already had was
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: pretty well established in his spots, and you know, just
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: kind of by default, we started building this group of
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: the regular bunch of us that would go out and
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: all of us were already kind of experiences and researchers
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: in our own right, you know, I mean Kevin and
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: Rob Copeland, Wayne Dillon, guys that have been down this
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: road for a long time, and we just all kind
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: of it was all simpatico.
• 8:46
  Speaker 4: Man, you know what I mean, we all live fairly
• 8:48
  Speaker 4: close to each other.
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: We're all passionate about the outdoors, you know, passionate about
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: the topic. And you know, I got to give the
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: nod to Kevin. You know, Kevin had stumbled upon a
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: couple of areas up on the rim that are pretty
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: remote and obscure and had already kind of had the
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: ball rolling he was getting. Back then, you know, we
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: were more in the research frame of mind. You know,
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: there was Kevin was you know, habituated with these things,
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: for lack of a better term, you know, he was
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: you know, I think that's the kind of the direction
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: that we initially were going, kind of like a Jane
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: goodall be there, be consistent, do the same.
• 9:31
  Speaker 4: Things over and over and over and over and over again.
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: And but you know, back in those days, like you know,
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: five years ago, you know, I didn't go anywhere without
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: a camera and a big cam and and Kevin had
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: all the audio tech and we were doing all that,
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: you know, and I mean we would get some incredible interaction,
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: but it was distanced, you know. And not long after that,
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: you know, we had our I had my first experience
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: with the telepathy thing, right, and we were all out
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: and we were basically asked to put the tech down.
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: And that's that's that sounds so crazy you want to
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: say it, but but we so we did. You know,
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: we stopped uh filming, we stopped trying trying to catch pictures.
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's part of the journey for a
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: lot of people, you know, like, you know, you get
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: into this thing and then you realize that your camera
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: around and you're you're going to start seeing stuff, you know,
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: and and I when we stopped doing that, and we
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: stopped trying to uh provide evidence and and and collect evidence,
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: and we just started letting it unfold more organically.
• 10:41
  Speaker 4: As people, you know, and.
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: And the nature of our interaction, communication and experience just
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: changed exponentially. Man, it changed everything. You know.
• 10:51
  Speaker 4: That's that's kind of a bridge version.
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: That's cool. Yeah, that's fine. So this is this is
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: the cool thing, man, Like, Okay, so what I I
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: shot you like a year ago, and and uh, you
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: were you know, you wanted you were like keeping your cars.
• 11:07
  Speaker 4: It was in the first couple of weeks.
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I reached out to you and you were like, hey, dude,
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: who are you?
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: And I was like, I'm Tom, and you were like
• 11:14
  Speaker 3: all you and I was like, okay, you called me
• 11:18
  Speaker 3: or I called you. However that went and we talked
• 11:20
  Speaker 3: for like a half hour or forty five minutes before
• 11:22
  Speaker 3: you even came on the show. You were like kind
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: of like, hey, this is you know, this is something
• 11:27
  Speaker 3: unique to me.
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: And now you guys have taken this additional step to
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: to come kind of you know, basically come public and
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: say look, this is what we're running into out here.
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: What what was the what was the reason behind that thinking?
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: You know, I think it was a couple of things.
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: We were always very we had individually.
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: I mean, Kevin ran in Channel for a good eight years,
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: you know what I mean, And it was it was
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: a there he is yeah, yeah he said he had
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: to come. Yeah, yeah, feel better, brother, I'll hit you
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: up afterwards, pal, and so so Kevin was running Arizona's Squatch,
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: and but collectively we kind of had this mindset that
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: what we did as a group was so unique and
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: what we were experiencing that we felt like, I think
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: we felt that like we didn't want to tarnish that
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: with a lot of public ego ship for lack of
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: a better term part in my life. No, no, no,
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: the worries, and I was, you know, I mean I
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: was really for a long time dead set again and
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: creating a platform. I felt like whatever we did individually
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: was fine, you know what I mean. You know, I mean,
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: I've been friends with with people that.
• 12:59
  Speaker 4: Have yourself like very s sessful cool, uh.
• 13:08
  Speaker 5: Uh out less you know what I mean, and.
• 13:20
  Speaker 4: And platforms, and you know.
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: I was always blessed if I felt like I went there,
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: we go, We're back, Yes, we'll get there. Yeah, I
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: hear you, Okay, cool, little glitchy, little glitchy. I felt like,
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: I know, I've got five G and I haven't had
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: over four G on my phone since I got here.
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: That's like a stretch. So but what we did collectively
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: was something that we were was so special, we felt
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: and really unique.
• 13:56
  Speaker 4: And I think we were.
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: Concerned and I think there's so little of this concerned
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: that you know, when we when we put the tech
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: down and we stopped doing a lot of this other
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: stuff that if we went public and platforms like this that.
• 14:14
  Speaker 4: I think we were concerned that it would screw up.
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: Our kind of symbiosis with with with with forest folk.
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: You know, and I and and you know, we had
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: another former member for lack of a better term, that
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: really dove into this thing publicly and had some success
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: with it, but his narratives started to change, and he
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: was he did it based on kind of using the
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: somewhat known platform of the Arizona Four to do this,
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: and and and the rest of us were a little
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: concerned that some of the stuff that he was saying
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: wasn't what we were. I don't want to disparage this guy.
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: I mean, I love him, he's a good person, but
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: it just wasn't what we were what the rest of
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: us were felt like was happening, you know. And I'll
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: preface that by saying, we don't all agree on what's
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: happening out here like we're for you know, none of
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: us have little minds, you know, and we're we all
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: have our own beliefs and we have our own theories
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: because it's all it is. And we get in some
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: pretty heated topic discussion about this stuff. But moving forward,
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: we I think we decided this past year that there
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: may be some some benefit to to getting out there
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: and being a bit more public.
• 15:29
  Speaker 4: And so, you know, we.
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: Sat down and we hammered out how this is going
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: to work. We're still work. You know, it's still a
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: work in progress. You know, Like you know, for us,
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: you know a lot of people that are glancing amongst
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: this topic and checking it out, you know, are looking
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: for dopamine hits and looking for evidence and looking for
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: you know, some shock value, uh you know, pictures and
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: videos and audio and all that stuff. You know, and
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: and you know, we have kind of like kept our
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: word about not doing that. So what you're going to
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: get if you're money that wants to compare experiences, wants
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: to uh look for commonalities, you know, we're a good
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: platform for you if if you're if you're here and
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: you're looking you know for some sort of video evidence
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: and and and and things of that nature.
• 16:15
  Speaker 4: Were probably not the right like platform for you because
• 16:19
  Speaker 4: we're not doing that.
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 16:20
  Speaker 4: The needs for that in my life sailed a long
• 16:22
  Speaker 4: time ago.
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: Tom.
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: You know, yeah, dude, it's the interesting thing about you
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: what I've what I've kind of you know, gleaned out
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: of what the information I'm getting from you guys. It's
• 16:33
  Speaker 3: a different the connection you're having with the forest people
• 16:37
  Speaker 3: again as you call them, because I don't think.
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: I don't think. I don't think.
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: Uh, you know, Kevin calls him that he has his
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: own you know, which is great. I think by the way,
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: I mean, I've been wanting to say that, I think
• 16:47
  Speaker 3: it's wonderful that even though you guys are friends and
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: you're growing up there and you're experiencing a lot of
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: these things together, that you're coming with different you're coming
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: with different viewpoints. But that's that's what it's all about
• 16:57
  Speaker 3: to begin with. And uh, I think that's a I
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: think that that's a good thing, dude, Honestly, I really do.
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: You know, it's like from the GAND thing. I don't
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: refer to these guys all as the Gan. Just let
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: me let me let me disabuse you of that. You know,
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: there's a from our understanding of it, there is a
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: in there, a caste system amongst their society, right and
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: the the Gan to I'm my understanding is, I think
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: Kevin would agree to this, is that there's like a
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: you know, the elders and the wise men of their
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: people are referred to are elevated to the GAND status,
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: but they're not all Gan. They're all whatever they could
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: the people, whatever they call themselves. However, you know, like
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: so I think we we talked about this once before
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: we got that strange validation in a museum in Pace
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: in Arizona. Below the movie on Rim that refer to
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: the the the Apaches spiritual beliefs, and the Apaches Uh
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: used to revere I won't say worship, but holding very
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: high esteem and regard the spirits of the of the
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: mountains in the forest, that that that resided amongst the
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: four peaks, and as well as the Moggi on Rim,
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: and those spirits are referred to.
• 18:18
  Speaker 4: As the Gang.
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: We found that out after we were getting some of
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: these names where they would have the suffix and we've
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: literally had names that we can call.
• 18:28
  Speaker 4: Them given to us.
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: And and and some of these names had to suffer
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: to them. You know. There was i Aiden, Gan, Terragan
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: and Parodic. There's a whole bunch of these gant types,
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: you know, and but not.
• 18:40
  Speaker 4: All of them have that name. And when we realized
• 18:43
  Speaker 4: that that that the.
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: Area that we're experiencing in is in the middle of
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: Apache Country. I mean that's for the last Apache Wars
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: took place, and you know that Geronimo country. You know
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: what I'm saying and uh, and that they referred to
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: these entities as the gan. We felt like that was
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: somewhat validating for us, you know, that was I don't
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: think they're all They're not all the game from my
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: understanding of but I think I ked would.
• 19:07
  Speaker 4: The rest of us would agree to that as well.
• 19:09
  Speaker 4: One of the few things.
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: From what I glean, it's it's quite you guys are
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: having quite the interesting uh like experiences. There's there's uh,
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: there's there's incredible like healing powers that are being bestowed
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: upon you guys. There's being there's like uh, there's like
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: uh I, there's things that I remember you're telling me
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: that you have you know, you have your situation with
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: your hand and your arm and uh you know you're right,
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: and that like you like they can they're somehow like
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: interacting with you in ways that I mean, I've heard
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: other people speak of this too, but you guys are
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: so like upfront with it, and it's a little bit
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: different than what I've been experiencing. Could you maybe like
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: talk a little bit about that. I can try, you
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: know it.
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: You know a lot of times processing all this stuff
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: over the last five years has been a inward journey,
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: you know, I mean from the you know, the mind
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: speak telepathic stuff. I mean that happens is you know
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: that's uh, that's something that that uh, that's a game
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: changer from the healing standpoint, you know, it's it's so
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: odd in the last couple of years since this thing
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: happened with my hand. And I can review that with
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: you if you like. But but I've had so many
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: people reach out to me and if I if I
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: pick up the scab, enough of them have a physical
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: ailment or an issue going on in their life and
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: they're looking for some sort of relief. They're looking for
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: a cure, or they're looking for you know, when when
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: traditional science and medicine and doctors haven't been able.
• 20:54
  Speaker 4: To fix their issues.
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: I mean.
• 20:58
  Speaker 4: Looking for something like that. It's had this.
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: Interesting conversation with a guy last week who had a
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: degenitive back disorder and like needed a history place. He's
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: in severe pain, and you know, he's asking me about this,
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: and you know, I got to be totally frank hum.
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: There's not one time, including with my hand. Kevin's had
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: some healing experiences as well, that any of us ever
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: went up there with that like agenda, you know what
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: I mean, like, oh, you know, let me see if
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: they able to do this for me, you know, like
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: we've never done that, you know, And so I always wonder,
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: like I think Kevin has a saying, which is so true.
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: They do what they do when they do it, and
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: that means an interaction behavior, communication, you know.
• 21:40
  Speaker 4: But it's the truth, you know.
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: And I always feel like I'm gonna let somebody down,
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: you know, if I if I tell them that I
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: can't assure you that you would go to any one
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: of these locations or come on, and we don't really
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: take people out with us that much anymore. That's kind
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: of thing of the past, but that that would happen
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: for you, you know. I mean, I just you know,
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: it's such a miraculous thing. Mine was, quite frankly, it
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: was miraculous, you know. And some of the other guys
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: have had h I don't know if it was on
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: the same direct level that mine was, but Kevin's had
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: you know, Kevin's a wounded VET and you know, you
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: blurt off a tank back and the Gulf War and
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: he's had He's got a litany of physical ailments as
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: a result of it, and he's you know, he's received
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: the painty leaf on occasion and a few other things
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: like that. But but uh, it's not something that uh,
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: you know, happens a lot. You know. That was it's
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: it's super infrequent and there's no rhyme or reason to it,
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: you know. So that was from the healing aspect of it.
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's it's it's quite interesting, what I mean.
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: I'm sure as many examples you can give me when
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: I asked this question, but what what has surprised you
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: about your interaction with with the with the forest people,
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: with the with the people on the Mogi young grim
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: What is like surprise you if it's not everything.
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: All of it Before before I moved to Arizona, before
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: I linked up with keV and the rest of the guys,
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: I mean, I was already an experiencer. I was already
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'd gone down that research road on and
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: off for thirty years, you know what I mean. It
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: was something that was poart of my life since I
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: was twenty five years old, you know, But I never
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: I had two sightings before this is before this, right,
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: and I'd had gifts taken back in a nature preserve
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: back in New England and I had, you know, that
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: type of kind of vaguary interaction, but nothing, and I
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: mean nothing like what has occurred in the last five years.
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: Like it's on such a it's a level that I
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: never even heard of or dreamed as possible. And if
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: I had heard about it five, six, seven years ago,
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: I would have.
• 23:59
  Speaker 4: Probably just missed. It is.
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: Not you know, yeah, right, yeah, And I hate see that,
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: but I mean, you know, it's some of it's so
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: outlandish that I can objectively sit and look at this
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: conversation from thirty thousand feet and there's a part of
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: my Philadelphia instinct he goes, this dude's outfit is freaking' rocker.
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: I get that. I get that aside of it, man,
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: you know, like it's some of this stuff sounds absolusolutely unreal,
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: and you know, I'm here to say that none of
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: it's unreal for us, you know, like it's been a continuous,
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: ongoing thing. And tell me, don't get the impression like
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: every time we go out we have some earth shattering
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: experience like that's I mean, we're out a lot. You know,
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: Kevin's out, Kevin's gone through stretches of twenty thirty days
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: out by himself. I mean, like you know, twenty of
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: those days was a nothing, but you know what I mean,
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: like it was it was you know, it's just being
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: out there continuously, you know, and opening yourself up to it.
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: You know. We uh, we just went to we just
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: last year, we discovered a spot that actually one of
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: our guys had had an accounter a long time ago, uh,
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: kind of further north on the rim, up up near
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: up a little further north from our normal like you know,
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: probably twenty miles from our other locations, and we were
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: we just spent a couple of nights up there a
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: few weeks ago that were off the chain crazy. I mean,
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: it wasn't a lot. There was not like Kevin might
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: have gotten a little blip of communication. But and as
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: my thing is that these guys don't really know us,
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: you know what I mean, and yet there's always been
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: something about when they know that, you know, it kind
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: of changes a little the paradigm here, you know. And
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: but the amount of physical activity that was going around
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: all every night around our campsite was like I've seen
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: that before, but it was not frequent, and it was
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: it was it sae I mean from you know, full
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: figures running between the trees, and I mean it was
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: it was, you know, and on all the kind of
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: kind of a cult, not a cult, but but but
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: more supernatural phenomenon. It seems to occur around these guys,
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: that twinkle light effect and the auras and just all
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: this stuff that was going on.
• 26:21
  Speaker 4: And it wasn't an orbs, you know, And it.
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: Wasn't like one of those and eye all that the
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: eye glow all that stuff, and and and it wasn't
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: like something that I mean that doesn't happen.
• 26:30
  Speaker 4: Them all the time. You know that, you know, when
• 26:32
  Speaker 4: it happens like that was awesome, you know what I mean.
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: But it's something that's taken a lot of time, and
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: you know, a lot of downtime.
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so you you've had two sightings.
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: That answered everything we did.
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: Dude, you do you can speak and say whatever it
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: is that you want, Man, I want out there. And yeah, dude,
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: so you've had two sightings. You said, could you maybe like,
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: okay for the novice and most people are here because
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: the new.
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: Arizona i'd have oh before yeah, before I moved to Arizona.
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: Did I freeze? Yeah, it's almost freezing somewhere Arizona had
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: the first encounter. Yeah, the first encounter I had was
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: when I was out. I was in the Wisconsin Del's
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: when I was twenty five years old, and that's the
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: first time this anything, I mean I and then the
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: second encount the second sighting I had was in was
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: in southern Rhode Island and in nature preserve, but a
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: place that I had been continuously going through for a while,
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: and then this this guy showed himself to me. But
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: I never had anything since I've been with the with
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: the Arizona four like it's been. I've probably had honestly
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: six solid full physical daylight sightings over the course of
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: the last five years, like easily, you know. And and
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: you know, like that church camp, we had two in
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: one day in like in sign of eight hours. It was,
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's unheard of. It's unheard of, you know.
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: And right so it's definitely ramped quite a bit more
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: since uh, since the Arizona experience.
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: Drock, have you been have you been by any chance
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: speaking to any of the Navajo Uh people of the
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: region to try to get into because I I can't
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: think of his name at the moment, but I'm speaking
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: with a guy who knows a lot about wind it
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: goes and the what was it called it? The oh,
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: I'm going to mess it up? The at Alushi nat
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: alushilaushi uh which is skinwalkers for the for the novice.
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: And if you've been talking to him, what have they
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: been telling you?
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: You know? So obviously there's a huge Navajo presence in Arizona,
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: you know, And and and we've all spent a little
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: bit of time up on the rest and I've made
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: some inroads with with some of these guys in my
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: time here, and you know, a lot of their a
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: lot of what they say conflicts with each other sometimes,
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: you know. I've heard uh people that I respect and
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: from the Navajo nations saying don't interact with them, don't
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: fool them, and stay away from them. And I've heard.
• 29:08
  Speaker 4: The exact opposite too. I've heard, you know, good spiritual beings.
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: So I never really know how to respond to that
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: because there doesn't seem to be a consensus amongst them themselves,
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: you know. And that's been my experience with them. You know,
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: Kevin's got a buddy up on the Reds that uh
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: so some of the verbalizations that that Kevin.
• 29:30
  Speaker 4: Achieved over over his time.
• 29:33
  Speaker 6: He took to a Navajo speaker that he knows, and
• 29:37
  Speaker 6: he was able to gain a little bit of maybe
• 29:40
  Speaker 6: insight on what does some of these these words mean
• 29:42
  Speaker 6: that have been.
• 29:44
  Speaker 4: Spoken to him, you know. So that's that's always interesting.
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: There's without a doubt, you know, if you want to
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: look for the ground zero in North America of maybe
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: some insight and some history, there's no better place to
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: start than than the First Nations people here.
• 30:00
  Speaker 4: I mean, it's been in.
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: Their zech geist to their culture for you know, ten
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: thousand years, and that's yeah, all over the country. Man.
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: That's that's very interesting, true, yeah, because you know, like
• 30:16
  Speaker 3: like I mean, I think and also in like you know,
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: trying to go a little bit off topic, but it's
• 30:22
  Speaker 3: it's kind of not like if you go into Okay,
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: like I would imagine like native cultures of even like
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: Asia and Africa and and many other places in the
• 30:31
  Speaker 3: world they have these as well. But I also imagine,
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: you know, because there's also like you know, uh, Noah's
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: Ark flood. The flood isn't in many of these people's
• 30:42
  Speaker 3: like you know, ancient wisdom and stuff like that too.
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: It's just it's just such an interesting thing. I know,
• 30:47
  Speaker 3: I look at him smile, and I know I'll get
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: your particular your your little your fancy there. I know
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: you enjoy those kind of things that you and I
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: love that kind of stuff. And it's just it's so
• 30:58
  Speaker 3: underappreciated by the the science community. And I don't know why.
• 31:02
  Speaker 3: It's It's in every corner you look, whether it be Cherokee,
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: Navajo or you know, the Pawony or any of them,
• 31:09
  Speaker 3: it's there and you just say this, you know, snuffed
• 31:12
  Speaker 3: or knows that it is, like it's some type of
• 31:14
  Speaker 3: you know, all these people are in the woods and
• 31:15
  Speaker 3: they don't know what they're talking about.
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: But Tom, I'll jump down that alternative historical narrative rabbit
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: hole anytime you want, brother.
• 31:26
  Speaker 4: You know, Yea, this is my thing, man, that's my
• 31:28
  Speaker 4: that's my other passion.
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: That's for you. And I always vibe right like you know. Obviously,
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: there's every major culture around the world has a has
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: a floodstory. I mean every single one of them, from
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: Southeast Asia to all through Europe and obviously the America
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: is the South. I mean, they all have it. They
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: all have one. So you know, that that maybe leads
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: a little bit of credence to uh to.
• 31:57
  Speaker 4: You know, some biblical texts.
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: You know, that's that's an area that that that's a
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: slippery slope. You know. I think a lot of people
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: engaged in the Sasquatch phenomenon are always trying many of
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: them are always trying to force this thing through a
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: biblical lens, you know what I mean. And you know,
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: and I'm a faulty Christian. I don't disparage that, you know.
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: And then then and then you know, then you go
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: down the Nephilum road and all that all that stuff,
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: you know what I mean, And and and uh, I
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: think for the most part, and you know, I'll nod
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: to keV.
• 32:34
  Speaker 4: keV is very devout, you know, and.
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: Yet he is not somebody that's going to say that
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: he is, you know, And he's not somebody like Kevin
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: were the first person tell you he does not believe
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: these guys are of Nephelim descent. I mean, it hasn't
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: been our experience. And that episode is gonna you know,
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: and you look, he he goes and his reason podcasts
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: are for man's calling.
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: We're doing a little bit of foreshadow and Kevin Kenny's coming.
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: Guys. Yeah, I'm not gonna rain on Kev's parade, you know,
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: like Kev's Uh, Kev's taking a deep dive. Kevin knows
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: the Bible better than most people I know, man, you know,
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: and uh, that being said, we don't all agree. We agree,
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: We agree on many things, but you know when like
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: I'm always very leary and about laying a foundational backstory
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: to any of this stuff. You know, That's that's what
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: the experts do, right, Like all these dogs are the
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: children of Eshaw like whatever that's looking like, you know
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: what I mean, Like, you know what, that's something you
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: can believe whatever you want, But you don't know that.
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: You don't know that nobody. I don't care. How I've
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: been in this thing for thirty years, Tom, I know
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: less now than I did twenty years ago. I'm convinced
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: of it, man, you know, like I and like we
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: all come.
• 34:06
  Speaker 4: To this conclusion that the.
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: Who's, the whys and the house that doesn't hold a
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: lot of importance for us at all anymore. You know,
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: it just doesn't you know, the the firsthand nature of
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: the experiences, the commonalities amongst others, Like if anybody's moving
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: the ball fall.
• 34:26
  Speaker 4: You can delve into ancient.
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: Texts and the Samerian tablets, all the Ananachi stuff, all
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: the Genesis stuff, and then transition over to the Book
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: of not to the Book of Giants and the Book
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: of Dreams. You know what. There might be something in
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: there that fleshes this out a little bit, but it
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: is not a defining narrative.
• 34:44
  Speaker 4: And none of them are. None of them are.
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: And that's not even including the Native stuff, which has
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: nothing to do with any Biblical or Samarian or any
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: of that.
• 34:55
  Speaker 4: It's got nothing to do with it.
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: It's a completely different, different backstory now, you know, So
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: who's right? Who cares? Like? I don't care anymore? Like,
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: I literally I don't think we're ever going to know.
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: I'm told we you know, we're pushing up daisies and
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: they threw the last cloud on. Maybe then we figured
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: it out, but until then, I'm just sorry. I'm just
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: seeing it for the ride. Yeah, dude, I don't think
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: there's anything wrong with it. I don't think there's anything
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: wrong with it.
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: I think, like you know, a lot of people, you know,
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: being a religious person, a person of faith that informs
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: their life and their decisions in a way they choose
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: to live life.
• 35:27
  Speaker 3: I have nothing wrong with that. But me, I'm okay,
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: I'm like, okay, I'll hear you guys. It could be
• 35:31
  Speaker 3: very possible, but I want to have everything open.
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: And like Jim said, you know, Jim, that's just you
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: know Jim from Fisher's past night Watch. That's his that's
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: his bread and butter. But he's like, this is what
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: I believe, and that's fine. But he wrote it there.
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: It's okay to disagree, and there's nothing wrong with that
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: because nobody truly knows. There's if we knew, then the
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: podcast wouldn't we wouldn't be talking right now.
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: That's it's it's a it's a genuine mystery that we're
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: delving into.
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: That's I always say that, yeah, and that we're all
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: addicted to you know. I mean I always say that,
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: like and then not dismissively. But you know, when we're
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: out doing our deal and we're documenting our experiences, that's
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: important to me more than literally anything else but podcasts.
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: This is where you can delve into theory if you like,
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: and we can we can examine take things out of
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: the out of the box, look at it and whatever
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: put it down, you know.
• 36:26
  Speaker 4: I mean I have just like many of us that
• 36:29
  Speaker 4: have been around us for a minute.
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: I mean, nobody money has got access to information that
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: it's like, oh, here's the secret sauce man, that we
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: don't all have at our at our fingertips, you know,
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: like you know I I and there's some great researchers.
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: I mean if I listen to guys like Timothy Albarino
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: or Ellie Morzouli or or you know, some of these
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: guys that are just so well versed and and taken
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: the deepest dives of all you know, any of these
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: guys can latch onto a narrative and put up a
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: really convincing argument for him, you know, and back it
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: up the source material. But you know, I can remember
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: one time arguing with keV a long time ago, and
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: I'm bringing up some of the similarities between the Sitchen
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: translated UH version of the of the Sumerian Tablets, where
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: there's a very common element Genesis story. I mean that
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: you know, the faces and the names are changed, but
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: the bones of the story are identical Genesis, you know.
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: And and you know, Kevin has dismissed a lot of
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: that animachy stuff a long time ago, you know what
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: I mean, I don't I don't know, you know what
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: I mean?
• 37:47
  Speaker 4: But I will say that he's made one solid point.
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: You know, if you believe in the enemy, you believe
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: in an.
• 37:54
  Speaker 4: Evil force, that that it's move our spiritual life in our.
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: Physical life on a daily and that that maybe lives
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: outside of time. It doesn't matter. Like what's to say
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: that that stuff wasn't planted there seven thousand years ago?
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: Just the cake.
• 38:10
  Speaker 4: On the table, right, you know it really is?
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: And Ken is right about that, Like I don't know,
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: you know, like, well I could prove this from the
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: Samario tablets from six thousand years ago. Well, how do
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: you know that stuff wasn't just a bunch of freaking
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: fiction planted there by the devil just to screw people's
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: brains up? Like who knows? Man, you know, like anything's
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: on the table.
• 38:30
  Speaker 4: With this stuff at this point.
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: You know, there's very little that I won't believe, you know,
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: because I've seen unbelievable things. You know.
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: No, Okay, so what is the uh? What does there's
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: a there's a lag, man, there's a lag in time.
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: We're doing our best guys. Uh, what's the okay now
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: that you guys are coming public? Yeah, we're doing good, buddy.
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: What is the what is the overall what is the
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: plan going forward with the eras on a four? What
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: is your guys plans to uh to bring this information
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: to life? I got that, dude.
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: I think we're going for you know what for us,
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: For us, it's business as usual, it really is, you know.
• 39:18
  Speaker 4: I mean, you know, our meat and our.
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: Bread and butter or the meat and bones of what
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: we do is out in the words man, you know
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: what I mean.
• 39:24
  Speaker 4: And getting out there.
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: Every year, I think something maybe a little bit more
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: gets revealed to us, like something they can do or
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: they'll say something or you know. So I think like
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: living in the experience is our plan moving forward? You
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: know the platform, you know, we want to do it
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: well and kind of do it right, but do it
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: do it foundationally the right way and and and and
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: be authentic to ourselves and how we are. And I
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: think we definitely have one mindset with this is that
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: we are all super close. We trust each other, and
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: we love each other and and I think, yeah, right,
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: I mean I'm just the best friends man, you know.
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: And I think that if at any point we feel
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: like this thing is creating a drag and friction and negativity,
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: we'll pull the plug. Man. You know, like that is
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: so not important. You know, I don't think any of us,
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: I feel like we want to be the man, you
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: know what I mean, and none of us really are
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: too interested in uh, you know, hitting the conference circuit
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: and you know, trying to trying to be somebody. If
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: I wanted to do that, I could have done that
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: a long time ago, you know what I mean. I
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: mean gift of gab. I know how to get out
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: there and speak, so does keV. I mean, we're all
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: we're all able to do that, you know.
• 40:46
  Speaker 7: So I think keeping the ego out of it and
• 40:49
  Speaker 7: just put out the meat and potatoes of what's happening
• 40:52
  Speaker 7: to us and bring it to you guys to examine
• 40:54
  Speaker 7: it and make you take up from what you want.
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: Man.
• 40:57
  Speaker 4: You know, like.
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: That's that's what we're doing. I'm not trying to Uh,
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: nobody's trying to reinvent, and nobody's trying to have our
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: own television show. You know, I don't.
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: Such a cool thing. I love like you know, I
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: don't know if you know who Trey Hudson is he
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: does the Metal Project. He's kind of doing the same thing,
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: but he's more you guys are more like experiential friendship experiential.
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: His things are like, you know, he's like out there
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: like uh, you know, he's out there with his you know,
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: with his meters, and he writes everything. He's very he's
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: former military and d O d or I can't remember exactly.
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: He really writes everything down and he's very ridiculous about it.
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: But he's the same thing. He makes you sign an
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: d if you go out there, not an NDE. What
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: he's not making you sign a near death experience? What's
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: the work? Yeah, indeed non disclosure, Yes, yes, non disclosure
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: inde my own today, Mr Mr already to eat? I
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: know those man, oh the forum chicken patties that were
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: the grosses. I'm sure that's that's some military stuff. So
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: I've been Yeah, could you could you go into like
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: maybe like some of the experiences that like to give
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: people a little bit about what's going on out there?
• 42:26
  Speaker 3: Uh, what you guys are like running into that? You
• 42:28
  Speaker 3: both get that you all are. I mean, of course
• 42:30
  Speaker 3: you have different you know ways or you're seeing it
• 42:32
  Speaker 3: and the expressing it when with words. I think words
• 42:35
  Speaker 3: are probably a hindrance and explaining some of this. But
• 42:38
  Speaker 3: what would be something that you all agree on that
• 42:41
  Speaker 3: happened that you that you experienced for the for the
• 42:44
  Speaker 3: listening audience.
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: So we have had so okay, let's go. Let's go
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: to the mind speech stuff, right, So the when it
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: we've had times where it's manifested where like all four
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: of us have heard literally the exact same message at
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: the exact same time, and like we'll we'll put a
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: count on it. Okay, what do you hear?
• 43:09
  Speaker 5: Three?
• 43:09
  Speaker 4: Q one say it?
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: And it's like lines up identically, you know what I mean,
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: whether it's a name, a quick message, they don't.
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, so like.
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: That's so validating, Like because honestly, Tom, when this first
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: happened to me, like that happened to me, I mean
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: I had to really question my sanity for a second,
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: I really did, you know. And you know, Kevin initially
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: probably had those experiences before most of us did, just
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: because he was out there the most, you know. And
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: uh so when that happens, that's super validating. And I've
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: had some off the wall. I've got a story to
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: tell you a mind speed story. All right, Okay, so
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: about well exactly almost a year ago to today, about
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: within two weeks, right, my father passed through it. Right.
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: So at the time I'm driving up to meet Kevin
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: for a two or three nights up on the Rim
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: with him, like if something we'd planned out, my dad
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: was in hospice back east in Cape Maine, New Jersey.
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: And so I'm driving. I'm probably about forty five minutes
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: away from getting to the site, and I'm driving on
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: the main highway that runs below the movie on Rim.
• 44:25
  Speaker 4: It's the two sixty.
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: It kind of goes from like it crosses Arizona all
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: the way over to New Mexico.
• 44:30
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: So, as I'm driving, my brother calls me, right and
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: he tells me that the dad had literally just passed.
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: And so I pull over to the side of the road,
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: I call my family, call my kids, and I'm sitting
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: in the car.
• 44:45
  Speaker 4: I'm like, what am I supposed to do here?
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'm in the middle of East Nothing, Arizona,
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: and you know, I know that I got to get
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: back east from your funeral arrangements and all that stuff's
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: coming up, right, But I'm like, what internally, what am
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: I supposed to do to he? You know? And so
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: I made the decision, you know what, I can't think
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: of a better way to process my dad's death then
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: out in nature with my best friend who's also some
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: of a spiritual advisor for me in some ways, right.
• 45:15
  Speaker 4: And so I, uh, I just I decided to continue.
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: On with my plants. So I get up on the
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: top of Rim Road, on the three hundred, which goes
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: it's a road's a generous term. It's a trail that
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: runs across the top of the Rim for miles from
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: end to end, you know, and it's kind of like
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: the edge of it. And then I cut into one
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: of the side forest roads which goes back to way
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: back to where our camp is going to be. And
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: I get to the crossroad of two trails, right, and
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: I'm bouncing along with my tacoma, and I'm kind of
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: contemplating my dad, you know, and I get I come
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: to a stop just real quick at this at this intersection,
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's just two trails. I get this deep
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: female voice in my head that says, literally, we mourn
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: review the loss of your father, and we celebrate that
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: he is at peace. With the creator now, I mean,
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: and it was this isn't something I was generating. This
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: was this was one of them sending me a personal
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: message to me. And I started as shake because they and
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: i'd been kind of My dad and I had a
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: complicated relationship, but we loved each other. And I pulled
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: over to you know, I pulled over and I'm shaken.
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: I start to tear up. I get emotional because I
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: just lost my dad and that's what happens to me.
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: And so I kind of pull it together and I
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: head on down the trail and I see Kevin came
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: up about five minutes after I pulled away from this intersection,
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: and he jumps in the car with me and the
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: truck with me, and I tell him what just happened,
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: and he knew my dad a little bit, you know.
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: So we get back to the campsite, and that night
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: was a top three experiential night of my life.
• 47:03
  Speaker 4: It was so powerful. I mean, they.
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: Right at dusk, we saw they had a sight of
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: a white one and it sat like above a down
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: tree and just stared at us for a freakishly long
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: period of time. It was minutes minutes, and that's you know,
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: you see one of these guys, it's like, uh, you know,
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: usually fairly brief, you know, And so that was unique.
• 47:31
  Speaker 4: And then that night, I mean they were they put
• 47:36
  Speaker 4: on a light show like that.
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: I mean just from the twinkle light phenomenon that's going on,
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: and they were all around us and we had So
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: this is gonna sound crazy. I'm just gonna tell a story.
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: Kevin had had a friendship with one of these guys
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: that passed away a few years ago, and and that's
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: another story all in himself. And if he told I'm
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: not going to tell that story because he was on
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: I bet he told her too, and maybe actually, but I.
• 48:04
  Speaker 4: So this is.
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: Of course, yeah that's worth that means to come out
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: of Cav's mouth. So but this, this friend of Kevin's
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: mate was came into the camp and she she she
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: stood in front of us like cloaked, uncloaked, then cloaked
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: for lack of a better term, and talked to both
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: of us and we both heard everything for a good
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: at least minute minute and a half, and then she
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: walked off and she repeated what she said to me
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: about my dad. That's who had spoken to me. Her
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: name was.
• 48:41
  Speaker 4: Aiden, and gone. I don't know one of them female.
• 48:44
  Speaker 4: I always forget whether the brother the two of them
• 48:45
  Speaker 4: is again.
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: And gone and one of them determination for female and
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: the other one's termination for male. Anyway, she sat and
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: and that entire night it was just like almost like
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: like the energy in the camp was just almost like
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: a celebration of my dad's life of grieving with me
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: and I choked up talking about it because it was
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: it was really powerful and uh so, yeah, that was
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: a that was a story.
• 49:09
  Speaker 4: That's made that happened.
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: It's incredible, dude, what is the you know, you know,
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: anybody you know when you hear the stories about these
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: guys being what is the tweakle light phenomena? Great question?
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: Couldn't answer it. I just know that it happens. It's
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: it's this like light manifestation that's an energy discharge almost.
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: It seems to occur when they're around, and you know,
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: it looks like little L. E. D Lights popping off
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: wherever they're at, you know, And and to me, it always
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: kind of when I start seeing them, it kind of
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: like hurlds their presence like they're coming, like, you know,
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: very rarely would we ever see one of these guys
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: without that happening, you know what I mean, and so
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: and and you know, then we get into theories about
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: what this is and what that is.
• 49:59
  Speaker 4: I don't know. I don't know if it's something that.
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: They discharge when they're for lack of a better term,
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: crossing the veil or de cloaking or whatever that is,
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: Like whatever that is, it's something that manifests when they're there,
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: you know. And you know, we've had hours and hours
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: and hours of discussion about the possibilities, but I don't know,
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: and none of us know, and there's not a member
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: of the hours on the flour that's gonna say, well,
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: that's what, just because we just don't know, you know,
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: it just happens when they're there. And then you know,
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: and there's other little kind of you know, we get
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: this thing that kind of looks like the Aurora borealis
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: going on and it lights up. It's just ravy rainbow
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: colors that they go on. And I don't know what
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: that is either. I mean, we you know, there's a
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: there's an element to these guys that is so shrouded
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: in mystery and how they do, how they do what
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: they do, why they do what they do. I mean
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: that is literally at this point, anyone's guess, you know what,
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: I'm arrogant enough to say that if we don't know,
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: I don't know. Who does, I don't know? No?
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: Are they different? Are they different colors? The lights? Are
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: they just one one color? Or are they different colors?
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: Are there or the lights?
• 51:22
  Speaker 4: It's like a Christmas tree.
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: It's it's almost like a Christmas tree, like it's you know,
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: a little red pops and then a blue pop, then
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: a white pop, and it's just a random mix of
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: it almost looks like really bright fireflies, you know what
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: I mean, or or and there's no fireflies up on
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: the nogan rim like that's not what it is. But
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's like that. Like I said, it's
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: almost like a like a Christmas decoration going off all around. Wow,
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: that's what it looks like.
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: It's it's it's must that's like an enchanting kind of thing.
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: It's more like that.
• 51:58
  Speaker 3: It's like just a feeling I think I get because
• 52:01
  Speaker 3: of course I don't know.
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: You don't know.
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: I'm not even there. You would know better than I know.
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: But it's almost like it's almost like like spiritual or something.
• 52:08
  Speaker 2: It's much different because a lot of people, a lot
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: of people's experiences are like in either gifting or they
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: get bluff charged or they get paced out of the woods.
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: It seems a little bit more like get away from us.
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: But they seem to have accept that you guys into
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: the area and to like communicate with them.
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: I got to give Credit Network credits due to that.
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: You know, I mean none of this and I will
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: say this. I'll never say he's probably listening. I don't
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: even want you to hear this, keV. But none of
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: this happens. I won't say that Kevin's the catalyst for
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: all of this, but Kevin's the one who opened that door.
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: He really did, you know. They He developed a degree
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: of trust for these guys. It's unparalleled in my experience.
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: And as a result of that, I received the same
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: thing Robbie, Wayne did. We We all kind of got
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: accepted by this. And it didn't happen overnight either, you know,
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: but it happened. And you know, none of that probably
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: happens without Kevin having this. Uh kicked off this friendship
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: with one of these guys, you know, a long time ago.
• 53:17
  Speaker 4: So I don't know if that's the was the intro
• 53:21
  Speaker 4: for all of us or not.
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: But you know, I mean, you know, when when Kevin
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: shares about his experiences, unless you've been there, unless you've
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: seen it, it sounds like something out of a Tolkien novel.
• 53:34
  Speaker 4: I mean, it is.
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: Unreal and and he might be the most authentic, honest
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: man I've ever met in my life.
• 53:43
  Speaker 4: I mean, I love him because he's you know, I mean,
• 53:45
  Speaker 4: he was you know the h he officiated.
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: My wedding, you know what I mean, like, oh wow,
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: our wives are close and you know he was a
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: oh yeah, yeah's cool.
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: That's incredible. That's incredible. I much love tattoo. Yeah, he's
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: that's the dude. He yeah, he's the real deal man, Kevin,
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: get well soon, my friend. First of all, I know
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: he's not feeling all this is well. Yeah yeah, dude,
• 54:12
  Speaker 2: he's coming up. Guys, Like I said, you can go
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: get it early or you wait till tuesday. But he's
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: he's he came on, and uh I gotta have him
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: on again. Like the way, what about the other two
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: gentlemen you go with? What are their names? And you know,
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: is there maybe eventually that.
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah absolutely because they're just involved. They're just
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: you know, it's Rob Copeland. All these guys are vets
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: except for yours.
• 54:39
  Speaker 2: Truly.
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: Rob was Rob was a sub mariner, you know what
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: I mean, he was okay, badass. And uh Wayne Dylan
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: and Wayne is a you know, very seasoned another guy
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: like the rest of us, just passionate about the outdoors.
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: And you know, they're not I would say that uh mhm,
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: video and media platforms is not their favorite thing, especially
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: you know what I mean. But they're both fine and
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: super smart, super intelligent guys. They participate in the growth
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: of this thing in their own way, and and a
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: lot of it is good advice. You know. They'll they'll
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: craft a post and they'll craft an experience and put
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: it out there post Wise, they'll always participate if we
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: do something in the camp, you know what I mean,
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: Like and and and Robins.
• 55:28
  Speaker 4: They were both great, eloquent.
• 55:32
  Speaker 2: You know, fantastic. You know, I mean, I'm guessing this
• 55:36
  Speaker 2: is Kevin. I'm not sure it could be one of
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: the other two gentlemen. He said, tell him, I guess
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: you tell me about the crazy town we walk that
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: we when we left.
• 55:48
  Speaker 4: I know what he's talking about.
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, telling my stroke. Does he go long enough for
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: this on this episode?
• 55:56
  Speaker 6: He can?
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: You can save that story. I'm not telling you how
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: great you are, Keenie. You just sit back and watch.
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, all right, okay, okay, telling yourself.
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: You kicked the bone, you picked the bone, you tell
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: him I was all right? Well then, Kevin, what that's
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: an open invitation after your episode drops, I'll have you
• 56:23
  Speaker 2: on around if you'd love to serve you know, God willing.
• 56:27
  Speaker 2: I hope you feel better around and in the beginning
• 56:30
  Speaker 2: of June on Alive, go ahead and contact with Kevin,
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: and we'll make that happen. We can.
• 56:35
  Speaker 4: The last fifteen minutes.
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: After that last fifteen minutes about Kevin, he's gonna need
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: He's gonna need too.
• 56:48
  Speaker 8: Cares at the dinner table, one for him and one
• 56:50
  Speaker 8: for his ego. I'm not giving him another. Oh man,
• 56:58
  Speaker 8: this is great, dude.
• 57:00
  Speaker 2: Oh man, so so, but enough. Are you enjoying yourself?
• 57:05
  Speaker 2: Are you enjoying yourself in Mexico?
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: Dude?
• 57:07
  Speaker 2: Are you having a good time down with your family,
• 57:09
  Speaker 2: your wife?
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: We're we're down here with my wife and close friends
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: of ours that live in our hometown, and we're having
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: a blast. Man, you know, I uh, you know, I
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: I love you know what. I'm always cautious Tommy about
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: you know. I've seen guys involved with this to get
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: so absorbed and so obsessed with this topic that they.
• 57:37
  Speaker 4: Eat and breathe it. Now, you know what I mean.
• 57:39
  Speaker 4: And you know I keep that balance.
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: Brother, you know I you know, when when I'm out
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: and we're engaged and we're doing it, I'm all in.
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: But you know I I love to do things outside
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: of this with my wife. You know, we'd like to travel, obviously,
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: we'd like to do other stuff, you know what I mean.
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: We'd like to just you know, socialize with our friends
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: and it just kind of a normal life. You know.
• 58:01
  Speaker 4: I don't I don't know nothing about my left as normal.
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: But this is like the normal side of it, right,
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: Like this is you know, we get to come down
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: here and eat takers and sit on the beach for
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: a week, you know, I mean, yeah, I'll be out
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: with the guys again.
• 58:15
  Speaker 2: You know, I feel the same way, dude, if you
• 58:19
  Speaker 2: just do it from the west side. Being a podcaster
• 58:23
  Speaker 2: so many people really, yeah, dude, absolutely on my side.
• 58:26
  Speaker 2: Like you know, you know, I get to people like
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: you and U Darren and Pam and Jim.
• 58:30
  Speaker 3: And all the all the people in my community, all
• 58:32
  Speaker 3: the people that I enjoy talking with. You know, it's
• 58:35
  Speaker 3: a lot to keep up with sometimes and sometimes I just,
• 58:38
  Speaker 3: you know, i'd be like, Okay, it's weekend, you know,
• 58:41
  Speaker 3: you know, this weekend tomorrow, I'm gonna be on with
• 58:43
  Speaker 3: Jim and we're gonna be doing the form of the Forbidden.
• 58:45
  Speaker 3: We're gonna talk about current topics, and I have to
• 58:48
  Speaker 3: take a step back and kind of enjoy and live
• 58:52
  Speaker 3: life too.
• 58:52
  Speaker 2: And I understand them, and it makes a lot of sense.
• 58:55
  Speaker 2: It gets hard sometimes, you know, Well.
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: So I've watched this. I mean, I've got to sit
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: back in an armchair for thirty years and watch the
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: evolution of this phenomenon from a public I was.
• 59:09
  Speaker 4: I was doing this before there was such thing as
• 59:11
  Speaker 4: Google of the Internet, you know what i mean.
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: So I've seen this thing kind of you know, metastasized
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: into a whole different thing, you know. And but I've watched,
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: you know, like, so I've watched you know, the people
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: that get like so fixated, and You've had some guests
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: that are like this on the on the videography and
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: the and the you know, the backwards camera ship, like
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: all that Scott Carpenter stuff and whoever Harley Owens. But
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: I've watched that for so long, and I've seen people
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: just get so to the exclusion of everything else in
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: their life. And let's face it, I mean, I'm passionate.
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: I'm as passionate today as I've ever been about all
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: of it, you know what I mean.
• 59:48
  Speaker 4: But I also recognize that, you know, I've seen guys.
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: I have a somebody who really well, that's got a
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: super successful platform and he's huge, I mean, and yet
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: I've watched his family.
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 4: Life disintegrate, his career disintegrate.
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: And it's three sixty five, twenty four seven, you know
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: what I mean, I mean for ten to eleven, twelve years,
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 1: and it breaks my heart because like it's like, hey,
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: you know, you're you're you're missing out on so many things. Man.
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: You know, nobody's gonna discover the secrets of the Earth tonight,
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: you know, and.
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 4: You're not gonna do it, and I'm not gonna do it,
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 4: So you know what, you might as.
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: Well enjoy some of the other things that are going
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: on that God blesses you with. Man, you know, your wife,
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: your kids, whatever you're passionate about in other areas. You know,
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: for me, it's always it's about recovery. You know, I
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: live in that recovery world with you know, I've in
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: recovering from drugs and alcohol for a long time, right.
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 4: And and and helping other guys get clean and sober.
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: Like I'm passionate about it's passionate about me as I'm
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: about this, like it's you know, oh, it's so important
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: to me, you know what I mean, And so like
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 1: I have that outlet for that need for balance, you know,
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: and so I can step away and I can do that,
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: you know, kind of it's kind of symbiontic. It all
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 1: kind of blends together for the way. You know, it
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: wasn't always like that.
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 3: So yeah, I did didn't to make like a to
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 3: make like a to make a what's the world I'm
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 3: looking for? Not a synonym, but uh, you know, like
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 3: life is like if life was like a like a song,
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 3: you know what song that you know, you know, if
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 3: you're a rock guy like myself or a metal head
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 3: like myself, which song do I know that only has
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 3: one note? You know, you it's it's it's everything. So
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 3: like I guess we're trying to say, guys, like this
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 3: is this is a fantastic and what it is, it's
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 3: a discovery that's so big that we can't understand that
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 3: we simply can't. But to to phyxiate on anything one
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 3: thing in your life is not healthy. You need to
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 3: broaden your perspective. That means looking out as well as
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 3: looking in and then kind of enjoy it too, man,
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 3: because it's your days are numbered way or another, and
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 3: there's people out there who love you and depend on you,
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 3: and there's people that you want to help, and you know,
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 3: you know, God willing, and all the good graces that
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 3: you put out into the world is what you get
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 3: back as well. And I think it's really cool that
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 3: we get to to.
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 2: Get to do this. You know, we live in a
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 2: day and age where we get to do this. And
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: I think it's awesome that you bring that up, dude.
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 2: I think it's really awesome that you get to say
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 2: something like that. Dude. I think it's I think it's
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 2: a good idea.
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: It's critical, you know, it's it's it's it's critical. And
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: you know what, t me. I get it because I
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 1: can remember there's been periods when I was younger, where
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 1: I was so absorbed and fascinated with the why and
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: the how and.
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 4: Just the entire you know that, Oh my god, this
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 4: is real thing.
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean, that it did it. You know,
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: it starts to cancel out other things in my life,
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: and you know, and and and and some of that
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: time was you know, when I was uh, you know,
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: still still after of an addiction to you know what
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: I mean, And there wasn't no, there's no balance there.
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 1: There's none of that perspective, you know, I mean, sobriety
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: and being clean and working in recovery that's given me
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: balance in this thing too, you know what I mean,
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: Like I recognize this is so much fun and so
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: cool and so unique.
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 4: It's indictive sometimes, you know what I mean. It's literally
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 4: you know.
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: If I'm not careful, you know, I could you know,
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: use it in the same manner, you know what I mean,
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: And I and I never want to do that. I
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: like having the ability to do other things, you know
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: what I mean. And I and I prioritize it, you know.
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So it gave you like perspective, you know, being
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 2: the recovering you know whatever. I don't know exact I
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 2: think you told my thing it was alcohol. If I
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 2: remember it, you know that that it makes you because
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 2: you know people do have.
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 1: That that gives you. It gave you the totally kid to.
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 2: It gave you the toolkit to be able to, like,
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 2: you know, with these experiences that you're having with your
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 2: you know, with your friends and your family, uh, to
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 2: to give you that perspective to step back. It kind
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 2: of helped you. It was like an awful thing that
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 2: you had to go through, but at the same time,
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 2: it gave you a tool in which you can let
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 2: go about the rest of your life, dude. And I
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 2: think that's that's that's commendable and incredible dude. So yeah, dude, Uh,
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 2: anything else you want to talk about before I get
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 2: you up out of here.
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 1: Tom. If I was to write a book, no, man,
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: I you know what I love when we get to
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: sit down because it's always just like just you know,
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: organically cool conversation man, you know. And I love the
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: fact that I've got friends all over the planet like this,
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: that that we can sit down and you know, it's
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: you know, we picked up when we left off a
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 1: year ago, you know what I mean, It's it's always Uh,
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: you know, I get enjoyed out of this.
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 4: You know, that's cool. Thank you, Thanks for having me on, Tom,
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 4: Thank you, dude.
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 2: This is are all on this side of everything, you know.
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 2: I mean I feel the exact same way I have.
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 2: I have friends in Spain, India, Xtan. This is for
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 2: real all over the world. Uh, you know, because of
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 2: my time all over the world.
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: And uh.
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 2: And then you know, meeting a guy like you with
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 2: your with your robotic hand and seeing big Foot out
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 2: in the woods and stuff, that's always fun. Yeah, dude,
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 2: it's like you never know what you're gonna run into
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 2: when you open yourself up. And and uh and just
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 2: accept you know, like.
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 3: People are having genuine experiences that are hard to like,
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 3: you know, the quantify. But at the same time, we're
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 3: still people, dude. And I I you know, like you
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 3: said that you you enjoy coming on my show. Dude,
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 3: I enjoyed the mere fact that you decided to always
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 3: come on and talk with me. Like I find it
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 3: to be like incredible that you would even want to
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 3: talk to me, you know what I mean. It's like
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 3: it's that kind of thing, you know what I mean.
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 3: It's like, yeah, it's like you're being generous with your
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 3: time with me and and I really appreciate that.
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 4: Yeah, you're a good dude and you're authentic time.
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: That's what that two important elements.
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 2: All right, Ben, So thank you so much for coming
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 2: on to Yeah buddy, all right, guys, Uh, right up
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 2: after this time, anytime, dude, I'm want to contact Kevin
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 2: again and have him on a live because he seems
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 2: he has a lot of you who wants to talk about,
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: just not through you more than an hour with him. Okay,
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 2: well I'll bump it back a little bit and and
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 2: give him some give him some time. So thanks so much, dude.
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 2: I can't remember and we had him for hour and
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 2: I can't remember. The lag is hard. Uh, So thanks again, buddy.
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 2: Right up after this, guys, Uh, do me a favorite
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 2: go over to Magical Journey podcast. He's gonna have on
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 2: another good friend of mine, uh, Austin Lawrence from the
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 2: Dead Chronicles, and I think and I'm going to be
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 2: having them on as well. He just accepted.
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 3: I'm going to be having Austin on too on the ninth,
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 3: So that's in two to three weeks, and next week
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 3: I'm going to be having on Texas front porch. He
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 3: had an incredible uh what do they call this crawler?
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 2: A crawler? And I haven't had anyone who's had a crawler.
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 2: Uh situation happens, so that's gonna be weird. And uh,
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 2: thank you all very much. Thank you so much once again, Chris. Yeah,
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 2: so it's it's just wild.
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 3: Stuff is coming up very lately and it's been keeping
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 3: up with has been.
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 2: I try to find.
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: Myself a.
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 3: Literal notebook with the with the with the calendar on
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 3: it today to write everything down because I need physical
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 3: now because the computer stuff is beginning too much for me.
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 3: So Chris, thank you so much for coming on again, dude,
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 3: and uh, I appreciate it, man.
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 1: My pleasure.
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 2: Time.
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 1: We'll talk soon, brother.
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 2: All right, buddy, all right, guys, remember we are the eye.
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: We are aware.
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 2: I love you all. I have a great weekend, you too, buddy.
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 2: Later h
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 1: N