Latest / f/22 - Photographer Interviews by VSCO / S2.E11 – Caziah Franklin on Brand Work, the Outdoors, and Knowing Your Why

Transcript

S2.E11 – Caziah Franklin on Brand Work, the Outdoors, and Knowing Your Why · f/22 - Photographer Interviews by VSCO

• Caziah Final End Cut 4k H.264 Youtube: Brands gave me access to their IG profiles and I was one of the vetters for a lot of like the content partnerships and stuff. And there was a lot of people in the DMs that were asking to work with the brands. Right. And I didn't see a single product from that brand. Right. Like a lot of the brands want to see people already being a patron. Right. So I think that's the facade and lie about social media these days is it kind of can give this illusion that like, like this all happened within the same week. Where it's like, no dog, this was this was a seed I planted back in October of twenty twenty two. Yeah. It's it's blossoming now in twenty twenty four, twenty twenty five. I was the I I kid you not, the black camper. Okay. An entire camp. Okay. So I had this early lie. Like I told myself this lie that, okay, like it can happen, but it's not really like for me. So I knew very early on in my life that that was gonna be my why. I just wanted to be the example that I felt like I never had. Yeah. Hello and welcome back to F22. I am here in Nashville, Tennessee with Kaziah Franklin. Welcome to the show, Kaziaya. Thank y'all for having me. Appreciate it. Yeah, we are honored to have you on board. Thanks for taking the time. For those of y'all that are meeting Kaziah for the first time, he's what we would call a multi-hyphenite. He's talented in a lot of different ways. He's been working with a lot of amazing brands. Ford, Huckberry, Outdoor Magazine, among many others. He goes on some Crazy adventures. And he's really truly an outdoorsman. I think there's people that are like, yeah, I'm an outdoorsman. And they go on like hikes with concrete sidewalks. But Kaziah's like doing the real thing. So we're super excited to talk to him today about his photography, about building a business, about what it's like to be an outdoorsman and work with these brands. And then he's also fairly recently married. And so we might jump into a little bit about. work life balance and all of that. So congratulations. Yeah. Welcome. Thank you. Thank you guys both for having me. It's an honor to be here. So such an honor. Such an honor honor to have you. I would love to just hear like your your version of like what do you do and how'd you get started? How how did all this happen for you? Yeah. It's that's such a loaded question for me because a lot of what I do truly happened like by accident. Like I had no idea that like Content creation was a thing, creative direction was a thing. It was just things that I saw in commercials, I guess. Okay. Or in movies. But I have a huge music background, grew up from a pretty, pretty b a big musical family. Okay. It's the reason why I'm in Nashville. Okay. And I didn't really pick up a camera, pick up pick up a camera until COVID, to be completely honest. Really? Yeah. To be completely honest. Wow. I I I went to I'm quitting now. I went to a really small private school that really didn't have a photography class per se, but there was an elective that was like a yearbook. I was in choir. And once you were in your elective, that was like your elective the whole time throughout the school. My sister, I'm the youngest of four, she was in a cheer. Okay. And the cheer coach also happened to be the yearbook like editor person. Okay. And she just trusted me enough to like Borrow the cameras. Okay. during summer break. It was like a rebel T6i. So I was, going to Lake Arlington in Texas and shooting. So I've always loved the landscape and nature. But COVID was really when I invested in myself, got my own camera and got it. Yeah. Wow. Okay. Can't rebel. That's what I started. I think, isn't that what you started with too? Yeah. Well, there was a couple point and shoots, my I went I remember I went to Costco and I got a rebel kit. And I I felt like I spent so much money. I'm gonna be, I better be taking pictures of my kids with this camera. I was 20 at the time, and little did I know what a financial rabbit hole I was getting myself into. But yeah, the rebel, the Canada Rebel. Shadow Rebel village. That's cool. So you you obviously felt an affinity towards landscapes and taking photos. But why what was that thing where you're like, man, I am gonna invest in myself? I am gonna do this, I'm gonna make this a thing. What Was there something that just clicked in your head? Yeah. So I guess to give a little backstory, I've always made content per se. Yeah. But it was always music content. Okay. So I was either making drumming videos, because that was the only thing I deemed myself to You drummed? I do. I didn't. I'm a drum. That's why I moved to Tennessee. It's a bell mop for a little bit. Yeah. Wow. Dang. Okay. Cool. So I was posting drum videos here and there. A couple got some traction. Yeah. And I was just shooting all on my phone. Okay. So I wanted something, you know, that was More high viz, I was learning the terminologies of what cameras did and stuff. Yeah. And I was also asked randomly to go to Israel back in 2020, right before COVID. And I didn't have a camera. I was like, I need to invest in something. So I actually picked up a Fuji, it was like a X100F. Uh-huh. And that was kind of like my first camera. My this is my like video, photo, but just for hobby. Little did I know that those photos I took in Israel would actually be used in a blog that was done by Israel Collective. I don't know if you've heard of them before. And that was my first time ever having photos used. Wow. by another That probably felt really affirming. it was very affirming. Yeah. And that's what showed me there's a whole world of like photojournalism and adventure and travel landscape. So for me it was always like a hobby. I just loved landscape. I loved animals. I loved Trees, I have a random obsession with trees and just anything green. But Israel and that experience with using my photos was like what showed me, this could be something that could possibly happen. Okay. Okay. That's cool. I've heard that story a few a few times, whether it's people being curated on Visco. For me, I remember the first time I got on the Flickr interestingness thread. yeah. Like it was I j it was the same feeling, like, my gosh, maybe maybe I could do this. Maybe I'm actually okay at this thing. It seems like that was your moment. Absolutely. Absolutely. That's amazing. Did you feel I mean, you said you mentioned you come from creative background, creative family? Did you feel you had the support? I mean, photographers we've talked to, we've it's really mixed. Sometimes the family's like, all in on photography, you can do this. Others it's actually not a lot of support. Did you feel that you had That people were like, yeah, go for this. Or was it just this is a fun hobby, let him do his thing. Yeah, yes and no. I had parents who both believed in me and championed me and encouraged me to do anything I set my heart to, right? Yeah. Also grew up playing club soccer. So I thought I was gonna be an MLS player my whole life. But I'm the youngest of four. I'm the only child slash sibling with musical abilities. Got it. So I always felt this pressure that I personally am mature enough to recognize I put on myself. My parents never did it. I did feel this immense pressure of okay, I'm supposed to carry on that legacy. I'm supposed to do music. So that's why I chose Nashville. I was giving drum lessons at Treveca over the summer back in twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen, found out about Belmont. I stopped playing club soccer and I lost my potential offer from SMU and some other schools and just spearheaded into Belmont. Okay. But my second semester was when COVID happened. Okay. So that was actually like the reset where I was able to sit with my parents, really sit with them and for the first time bring them into my vision for my life. Yeah. And kind of my life plan. I feel like COVID gave us all like the intimacy and ways to do that. Yeah. And I got to have some really hard conversations when it came to like what I wanted to do with my life. And you know, I kind of did music because I felt like it was this thing I had to do. And I was honest about that pressure and that lies feeding myself. And I think that conversation showed my parents I'm passionate about this and it elevated their support in me. Okay. And not saying I was missing support. It just almost put a magnifying glass on what they were also championing me in. Yeah. And me taking back the blinders of they're they're not making me do anything. They're not forcing me to do anything. They just love me and they want to see their child win. Yeah. That's that's impressive. That's cool. So you buy your camera. Yeah. You're like, I'm doing this. I'd love to know how you got from there to Now you're doing major, major things really quickly. Yeah. I I didn't realize you just started shooting during COVID. So tell us about you got published on the blog, but but how did you turn that corner getting your first gig, like your first like let's say big gig, whatever you want to interpret that as absolutely. So I kind of always had this internal idea that nowadays social media is kind of like the new resume. And I just because I was only making drum videos, and when I say drum videos, I mean like all my squares were music, like drum videos, drum videos. Some went really viral, like some had like two million views. So I guess to give context, like what kind of flipped the switch for me. 2021, I've really felt this like internal download in my faith in terms of like just coming to this honest crossroads of there's some things that I want to pursue in life. There's some things that I need to let go. One was being the pressures. Yeah. There were just things that I felt like God was asking me to just let go of, honestly. And I'm twenty five. I'm I turned twenty six this year. I'm tw I was twenty turning twenty one at the time. So twenty twenty one. Yeah. And I just felt God be like, Hey, like you're turning twenty one this year, you have a lot of dreams, you have a lot ambitions. When it came to like relationships, at the time I'll start to talk to my now wife. Okay. So I just had a lot of internal dialogue and I felt God just be like, for the first six months of twenty twenty one, yeah, you need to log off. Wow. You need to delete all your social media. Okay. You have unintentionally made music an idol because I was trying to chase the virality. Cause the thing is that relevancy's a drug. that's something no one wants to really talk about. That feeding that relevancy, that virality. So I felt God would be like, log off, just delete the app, delete I had Visco, delete Visco. I had everything. Okay. just get rid of it all. And for the first six months of twenty twenty one, just have fun. Yeah. Just do what you want to do. Take that pressure off yourself in some ways. Yeah. So I got into climbing because that what no but not a lot of people know is that I was working at an outdoor store at the time as well. Okay. Here in Nashville. So I got into climbing. I got into cycling. Okay. I was leading climbing groups. I was leading trips out in Utah and Moab. I just got feet on the ground. Let me just practice doing the thing I want to do now. Right. And just learn and just be a student. But that that was relatively new. You didn't have yes, you were Going on hikes and doing landscape, but really jumping into the outdoor scene was relatively new as well. I would say to that extent, yes. I'm the youngest of four. All my siblings and I, we grew up going to summer camp in Texas. And that was really my first taste ever of like the outdoors. That's where I got into like kayaking, climbing, B B guns, like all that. My family has never touched dirt. Bless the heart. So I did not I did not grow up that way. And at the camp as well, I started going to second grade. Yeah. I was the I I kid you not, the black camper. Okay. An entire camp. Okay. So I kind of had like this early lie. Like I told myself this lie that, okay, like it can happen, but they're it's not really like for me. Like to a certain extent, there's not a whole lot happening around me. Yeah. Kind of showing me, okay, like I can be here, I can do this. At the same time, there's not anything not telling me. Right. So it was like this internal dialogue of telling myself what I can and cannot do, right? Wow. So I knew very early on in my life that that was gonna be my why. Okay. Whether it came to music, I didn't know it was gonna be an outdoors and that length. I just wanted to be the example that I felt like I never had. Yeah. Wow. So I already had a taste of the outdoors, but 2021 was like when I like revved it up. Yeah. This is me and this is what I'm doing. Yeah. Okay. So how did that Almo it almost feels like you have two roads here. You have, hey, I'm loving photography. Yeah. Hey, I'm getting into climbing. I'm leading these groups. Yeah. Where did they start marrying together? Yeah. So I had a camera still. during that same time I was d getting asked to actually do photos. I wasn't making a lot do with it, but like I was getting asked to do photos for like these meetups, various music things. I was also like the only friend in the friend group that had the camera. So I eventually upgraded my X hundred F like the X T four. Yeah. Just 'cause I had much Better things that you need when you're doing a little more commercial type stuff or trying to get in that avenue. So yeah, I was taking photos of all these climbing groups and all these things going on. And after that six month period of me being off socials, I now have six months under my belt of what I would consider experience and being a novice at something. Yeah. So what I naturally started doing on social media was really just sharing what I was learning those past six months. Right. I was never trying to start this episodic series or anything. It was really just I was gone for six months. Here's what I learned. That's actually really interesting because so many times on social media or resumes we try to portray that we are the expert and we haven't figured out. I like that posture of saying this is what I'm learning. Yeah. I know I don't have it all figured out, but I have learned a lot and I'm willing to share that. I I love that perspective. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. I that's my thing. I just want to always be a a student. So even at the level I'm at right now, I'm still learning. I'm still picking up new things. Yeah, absolutely. So then you started posting back on social media, showing what you're learning. When did that start turning into work with brands? Yeah. So as I mentioned, I was leading trips out in Utah. I had another trip I was leading out that way. And a particular brand just likes my content at the time. Like I said, I wasn't intentionally trying to like push out any sort of narrative. Yeah. But they were like, hey, we're we know we're you're going out to Utah. We have like some new products coming out. We think you'd be a great fit to just shoot these products like in the wild. And that was like my first time ever, I guess, being trusted with a a vision and kind of executing it. And that brand and I, we still have a great relationship to this day. That was summer of 2021. But there is there was a time where that brand, I don't want to say their their name, they just were also doing some things from like the marketing side that I saw just I wouldn't say inappropriate, okay, but you could tell they just lacked a little a little nuance in a certain area. Okay. I I won't go as far as to say it was like like a a racial incident. Okay. But it gave me an opportunity as a black man to be like, hey, like I'd love to step in. If you would allow me, we built this relationship. I would love to step in and just give my thoughts. Yeah. Yeah. And that is kind of like what built like this trust. So my first time ever, like, I guess, in a way, getting compensated for my work, yeah, was actually brand consultation. So I r I technically didn't even start out as I guess a product based photographer. I was really consulting with brands with different marketing strategies. Interesting. And then once they saw what I could continue to do with the camera, it became okay, we're getting together, we're consulting about these campaigns. Now they're trusting me to build these campaigns and execute these campaigns. But at the end of the day, I felt like it was that that trust that we built that kind of showed them I'm here. Like there isn't anything that you could inherently like say. That would make me leave. So I think a lot of creators, independent contractors, but because at the end of the day we're not like employees with the brand, yeah, there is sometimes this like arm's length we like to keep. Sure. Because it's like I I don't want to get the dirt of what your brand is receiving. But for me, it's kinda like no, like I feel like I there's actually an opportunity here for me to kind of step off my my chair as a contractor. Right. And just be a friend. So a lot of my relationships, even to this day, really built off friendship and trust. That's powerful because in two things, a it took courage you for you to do that. I appreciate that. Thank you. And then secondly though, you turned a switch of I am someone who takes photos of products. I'm a photographer to I am a partner to work alongside you with you around strategy, around brand positioning. That I think is actually a pretty key moment. Cause when I look at the body of work and what you're doing now, even Zach and I prior to this were like, Well, how would we classify but cause I cause it yes, you are a photographer, but you're definitely doing other things. And I think you mentioned the word creative director or strategy, positioning. That's really what you've turned the corner into being. And I think that's powerful. That's it makes you even more valuable to a brand at that point. At that point, that's cool. Yeah. So I'm curious, what what would you say your business is? Is it just a photographer or how would you describe it? Yeah. I think what's so funny about social media is it can give this monotheistic idea of like that's what this person does. But behind the scenes, yes, I do product photography, brand consultation, I lead trips still up to this day out in Utah. Well I still do music stuff here and there. I still drum, I still play. Yeah, I kind of I feel like my hat switches every day, it feels like. So That's what I thought when I was looking at just your presence on on the internet. And I was trying to figure out do you find that there's a connection between music and photography and brand consultation? And I guess what's driving what and yeah, what's what? That's great question. I feel like they all didn't start to meet together really until a couple of years ago. And I think what was hard is, you know, after those conversations that I had, you know, with my family about music and just with mentors and personal friends. I almost felt like it was an either or thing. Right. You have to I I legit felt like it was a crossroads moment, okay, I'm either saying yes to this and no to this or vice versa. Okay. And that was really scary for me because although I knew in my heart I didn't want to pursue like music, I guess, to to the degree that you you can. Yeah. I didn't want to lose that piece of me. Right. And I think what I had to learn in that moment is that There's almost three variables to life. as a creative, yeah, your gifting, your passion, and your calling. Uh-huh. And I think that sometimes they're not always synonymous. And we try in seasons to force our gifting, our passion, our calling to like become one. Yeah. But I think it's totally okay for something to be your gifting. Like I'm gifted at this, I'm passionate about this, but I feel called to go this way in this season. Right. So for the first couple of years, it was really learning how to navigate those three variables. Yeah. And there was a piece I did. I was featured in a book called All Humans Outside by Tommy Corey Photo. It's a beautiful book. And he actually interviewed me about kind of like my journey with music in the outdoors and photography. And it was the first time I guess someone saw that. I guess what word should I use? I don't know, just that journey of making these different giftings and passions kind of meet. Yeah. And the whole photo shoot we did was actually intertwining the outdoors and music. So we were we were like in Little Cottonwood Canyon, Utah. We found like a beautiful cliff. We set up a drum set and the photos turn out great, but the story got the attention of Veary. So so Veery put it on their blog. They kind of helped amplify it. So now you have like an outdoor brand. It's even further championing my story and my journey. And that was the first thing that happened that showed me, okay, I don't have to set this down to pursue this. As long as I treat each longing in my heart with the respect that it deserves, yeah. They'll they'll meet someday. And some sometimes they don't. And that's okay too. I've heard someone it was a therapist say that for some people it is important they find their thing, their one thing. But for other people, and a lot of times it's artists, unless you bring all those things that make you you, you will never actually find you'll always feel a longing to do those things. Or at least a missing like yeah. And so for me, I love doing music. I love doing design. I love doing photography. I've realized that you use the word season and I think that's what I've that's I've found has to be true. I if I'm trying to do all of the things at once, I I do like a C plus job. Yeah. It's not the worst, but it's not the best. But to try to find seasons to do them. But if if I'm not bringing all of that together, in your case, music, outdoors, photography, like community building, which is what I put leading these trips on, like you won't feel that fulfillment, that sense of fulfillment. But I guess it's probably true. Different for everybody. Yeah. maybe that's the personality traits. I'm I I'm I'm thinking of something here that I I don't know if I've ever met anybody that that might have an answer to this question like you. So for me, I I have a deep music background too. And I have found that they they kind of bounce back and forth on each other. Yeah. What I think when a lot of people are getting started, especially in photography, maybe there's an initial, you know, thrust of interest and and investment and all this stuff, and then they get to a point where they start losing interest, maybe burning out, and they wonder, you know, is this not for me? Am I over this? And what I have found is like it always comes back. You kind of have those seasons. You have those ups and downs with it. And I have found that a lot of times music and photography will kind of bounce back and forth and like they feel kind of out the same well. Yeah. You know what I don't know why. They're very different, obviously. But they're both very cathartic. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. do you feel that? do they feed each other to your soul? For sure. I would say they both feed my soul. They both are a further extension of who I am. They're two totally different outlets that let me just kind of going back to that word, they're both cathartic. I think what I've had to, you know, tell myself and tell others who I got kind of get to talk with within community or like whether it be DMs, yeah. It's kind of a hot take. Yeah. But it's like not everything you're good at has to be monetized. That too. And I don't know if y'all have heard of Life Plan before. It's awesome. If you haven't heard a life plan, definitely check it out. It's kind of like a mix of therapy and life coaching. I have. Yeah. I have. It's it's it's it's brilliant. Yeah. I did my session two years ago, I think, now. So it's still very recent. And I was even further to see, kind of on paper. Yeah. Like I love music. It's something I'll never put. When I first moved to Tennessee, like I was touring for about the first two and a half years. Okay. it's it's something I love. I love doing it, but I have to be honest with myself and notice there are some aspects of this thing that bring me life. I'm able to be myself, but there are some things that kill me internally. I I think a lot of the things that we love that can kind of bring that like childlike whimsy in our life. Yeah, we have to learn, okay, what things do we like that we can preserve and kind of like feed our soul and be honest and we're like Okay, there's this, this, this, this, and it's it's stealing the joy. It's stealing the wonder and going back to the whole gift and passion calling. That's why in some seasons, some stuff might take the back seat. And it's not that you're not it's not that you're not doing that thing. Right. It's just not the priority. It's it's not having prominence right now, and that's totally okay. Right. On the other side of the coin, I want to bring this back super practically. It sounded like maybe you were taking on some of your initial work you were doing for free or maybe in exchange for product. I'd love to hear your perspective on particularly for younger up and coming photographers. is it okay to do spec work or free work or trade for product to build your portfolio? We've heard two sides. We've heard people you should never ever take in anything but money, value yourself. But then I also feel like Boy, if you want to build your portfolio, I don't know of a better way to do it than just offering your time. So I'd love to hear your perspective on that. That's a great question. So I I think I mentioned when I moved here, I started working at an outdoor store. Right. So I've always loved outdoors, but within that six month window of me just being off the grid, essentially, aside from leading the climbing groups and all that, where that stemmed from was the outdoor shop I was working at. Okay. Imagine REI but not REI, like it's very local, it's very condensed, it's like a one-off shop. It was that kind of shop. And we partnered with like all the climbing gyms, we partnered with all these initiatives and nonprofits. So that shop is actually what gave me the opportunity to kind of find all these groups to give myself to. And we also had a pretty nice like employee discount and pro deal. And what I learned during that season is before you can expect or feel that like slightly entitled to anyone trusting you. With their brand, their vision, their products, you have to be willing to invest in yourself first. Yeah. And I'm not talking about gear. Like, yes, invest in like the cameras, you know, but I'm talking about the products too. Like, kind of going back to how I started consulting for a lot of brands first. A lot of brands gave me access to like their IG profiles. And I was kind of one of the vetters for a lot of like the content partnerships and stuff. And there was a lot of people in the DMs that were asking to work with the brands, right? In which I would go and they're their site or their, their page. And I didn't see a single product from that brand. Right. a lot of the brands want to see people already in some degree being a patron. Right. So I had to learn at the outdoor shop because that's what I did. I invested in sleeping bags and camping gear and tents. But I wasn't just like picking and sh you know, just pulling everything. I was like, what brands do I like? Right. And I want to test their products. I'm going to take their stuff on my camping trips, shoot them, show them what I can do. Yeah. Right. And now there's already like this interest because I'm a patron. Right. You know what I mean? It's like even to this day, to go to answer your question, yes. There was a lot of work I did for the first like year and a half. That was like free work. Yeah. But if I can be very honest by the grace of God, those companies are the ones that I have my largest retainers with to this day. Yeah. And it was building that equity, building that trust, me showing them like I'm not just gonna jump to the next thing. Right. I want to build a relationship essentially and show that I'm here with you guys. of course you gotta get into the weeds of exclusivity and some other things that are worth talking about. Yeah. But it was really like this mutual dialogue of I love what y'all are doing. Yeah. And I would love to work with y'all if the opportunity ever allowed. Yeah. And those things might not have manifested next year. Right. It might have been a while. But I Planted seeds. That's how you that's all you can do. I'm really hearing just how oftentimes I think photographers can view client relationships as very transactional. Yeah. Yeah. Money, photos. Yes. But we were talking to a photographer yesterday, John Taylor Sweet, who was just emphasizing the importance of relationships. Yes. Yeah. Paul from the freelance photographer, which is one of the Visco companies, talks about the power of relationships as it turns into retainers. Yeah. And I I think there's so much to be said about he said, Yeah. I would if I had a brand, I would want the people taking my photos to like it. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Actually like it. That should be the goal. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then I do think the power of building a retainer. A retainer is a a business way of saying a relationship, a long term relationship. It is. And I th I think purely from creating a sustainable business for photographers, building those retainers. aka relationships is so important. If not, you're every month you're like, well, I hope I get some new gig. Hope I get some new gig. Whereas the retainer allows some consistency in terms of income and work. Can I tell you what a mentor told me? Yeah that changed the way I I viewed yes that relationship from transactionalism to longevity. He was like there's a difference between flipping a house and selling it like on the market. Okay. Or having rentals. Okay, tell me more. I'm curious. He was saying that a lot of times and and I this is kind of why I don't consider myself like an influencer. Yeah. I guess. I it's all titles to me. But he was saying that there's a difference between creating one piece of content or one shoe or just one thing and it's great. But it's almost like goodbye, doors closed, never happens again. And it's because you don't put that relationship first. And he was like, Would you rather Flip a house and sell like it's gone. Yeah. You put all that work into that house. you, you changed the cabinets. You did the plumbing. Yeah. You did all the the landscaping, right? And then now it's gone. Or would you rather actually build this relationship where they're coming into your living room and you're breaking bread and you're getting to like work and and and have fun? Like there's a lot of brands and companies I work with that I know the people personally. Yeah. Like I've gone to their house. Yeah. We've gotten lunch when I've been in town. Yeah. And that's important to me. Right. So much that there are some brands that I unfortunately don't work with anymore, but there's no bitterness because I still have their number and we still talk and meet up when they're in town. And I think when you put the relationship first, it's almost like the you're not planting transactionalism. So that can't overshadow deeper work, which I feel like is community in relationship building. Yeah, yeah. I want to underline a couple of things that you said, because as I've had more of these conversations, like trends emerge. And one of them w was that brands wanna see brands don't have this like massive imagination. They're not gonna go to your profile and think, well, they could probably do what we want. Right. They're they wanna see, you know, if they're imagining somebody that's shooting their product in this specific way, they're looking for somebody that does exactly that. Yeah. And you're you're basically suggesting do that. Yes. But then the other thing is I think a lot of people will post stuff and hashtag or at, you know, mention the brand and and hope that somehow a relationship happens, but it sounded like you're proactively Going after this, starting that relationship, starting that conversation, and then maintaining it and and growing it. And I think that's something that a lot of people miss as well, is just the proactiveness. I'm gonna yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. It takes you gotta do the work. You gotta hustle. And it and it's not the result isn't always instantaneous. huh. And I think that's the facade and lie about social media these days is it can give this illusion that, like this all happened within the same week. Right. Within the same month where it's like, no dog, this was this was a seed I planted back in October of twenty twenty two. Yeah. That is just now I'm just now seeing the roots dig and it take yeah, you know, it's it's blossoming now in twenty twenty four, twenty twenty five. Right. That's another thing. Speaking of patterns and trends, we see so many times the idea of like planting a seed, it's fun to plant seeds, it's fun to have a new idea, it's fun to start something. But actually to get to the harvest, you have to put a lot of really boring work in. But yeah, there's between planting that seed and the harvest is many, many moons of a lot of boring hard work to get to the place. Yeah. So you're about five years in in terms of really making this a game. Like you've accomplished so much, by the way. That's congrats. Thank you. What is next for you when you think about either this next year or the next five years, where do you see this going? Yeah. So one thing about me is I I don't believe in coincidences. Like nothing to me is coincidental. I think everything does serve a greater purpose that we might not realize. But I think it kind of goes back to that seed planting too. Yeah. And trusting that something will take root for some purpose and some reason and we might not see the fruits. Yeah. We could be planting an orange tree, but it might be bananas or something. We we just don't know. Right. So I'm now in a season where I'm really doing a lot of evaluating and being like, okay, I feel like some relationships exist for a reason and they're showing themselves manifest like in different ways. I give a perfect example, right? They're one of my first major clients was Topo Designs. Okay. They were one of the first brands to like really take a trust in me. And I shot their campaign for their collaboration with Taxa. They like overlanding trailers. Yeah. And it was like a one-off project. Yeah. Dor kind of. Closed, didn't really see anything take root right. And through that piece of work, I started working with Johnson Outdoors. They do like jet boil, Eureka. yeah. Yeah, a bunch of camping stuff. And I got to do an interview and a side photo project with Eureka camping. Okay. It's really cool. It's awesome. It's on YouTube. Check it out. And I just found out, I think it was almost two years ago now, that I got an email from the rep and he was like, Hey, you know, we've loved working with you. We're so sorry to like say this, but we're actually going out of business. we we're ending we're closing shop. They're like, however, we don't know why, but we have 25 tents and we just felt led to give you those tents. Wow. Okay. So 25 tents show up at my door one random day. Like tents. Okay. And I'm just scratching my head like okay. What do I do with these? But at my core, I still have my why. My why is to be an example I never had. Yeah. So there's always been this deeper prayer dialogue of I wanna get to a point to where yes, I'm helping these other companies with their trips and their ex their experiences, which they're awesome. I I always feel called to help stoke a fire and stoke a flame in different instances. But my longings to always build something my own where I can take people out who might not have like the means and resources. That's always been like my prayer, my thought. Yeah. So these tents show up at my door and I'm just like, why do I wow. Okay. This was a seed I planted years ago. Right. Not knowing that it was going to turn into this. And now I'm accumulating these gear like this gear to eventually start leaving my own trips. Wow. So right now, if I can be honest, it's been looking like okay, like not in a way that's transactional, yeah, but in a way that has deeper impact beyond myself. So that when I'm not here, it when my children want to keep do like I don't I want to leave a legacy of generosity and inclusion. That's what I want to leave. Like that's the seed I want to plant. So I'm now like, okay, what can I do? With the relationship I have, the brands that I have, all the gear, all the resources, what can I start building now? Right. That actually brings people together. I can see where this goes. Yeah. I can see the harvest in this one. This is a me too. I'm from looking. I'm looking forward. I'm really curious to hear like your advice to other people that are coming up because so many of the people that we talk to are 10 or 15 years into their career and what they did when they first started was a long time ago. Yeah. And for you it's all so fresh. Yeah. So, somebody that's wanting to do the kind of work that you do and be looking up to you, wishing they could do something like that, what advice would you give them? That's a great question. I would say know what your why is. I feel like in every space, creativity, athletics in every avenue, there's always something that pulls us towards that thing. Yeah. For me, it happened to be photography and photojournalism and all that. But my why was always to be an example that I never had, that second grade Kazai never had. Right. And I had to ask myself, like, is that why good enough for me? Like, if I never landed another client, right? If I never landed another opportunity, if I lost all my relationships. Would I still be doing what I'm doing? And does my why like does it correlate to that? Yeah. Yeah, you could think about it. You could think about it, definitely. Yeah. But if your answer isn't yes, right. You should reevaluate what your why is. Yeah. Wow. Because just achieving success, if you just want to be famous or whatever, it's very disappointing when you get there. And you need something more. You need your why. I think that's amazing advice. Thank you. Appreciate it. Great question. Gosh. Thank you so much for sharing so much of your your wisdom, your experience, your thank you. Just life, philosophy. It's been so inspiring. If people want to see your work, get in touch with you, you know, see more of you. Where do they go? Where yeah, you can find my some of my work on YouTube at Kazai Franklin, Instagram at Kazai Franklin and Substack. Cool. Kazai Franklin. Awesome. C A Z I A H if you're not on YouTube, just listening. Cool. Yeah. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. Appreciate this. Thank you.