Latest / Leaders In Payments / Stablecoin Infrastructure for Real-World Payments with Anna Kratky Strebl, Confirmo | Episode 535

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Stablecoin Infrastructure for Real-World Payments with Anna Kratky Strebl, Confirmo | Episode 535 · Leaders In Payments

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Leaders in Payments Podcast, where we talk to sea level leaders from across the payments landscape.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: We'll be discussing the products and services that impact the payment space today, as well as trends and predictions for the future of payments.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: We will also hear stories from our guests about their journeys to the top.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_02: Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Leaders in Payments Podcast.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_02: I'm your host, Greg Myers, and today's special guest is Anna Kratke Strebel, the CEO of Confirmo Group.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_02: So, Anna, thank you so much for being here and welcome to the show.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for having me.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_02: So, to begin, if you don't mind, can you give us a quick snapshot of your personal background, maybe where you grew up, where you call home today, a few things like that?
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I'm originally from Prague, from the Czech Republic.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: Right now I call home the Bay Area.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: I moved here with my family recently to be closer to Codfirmo's customers.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: And before that, I lived in Japan for a while and in the UK where I studied at university and I worked for the British government.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, currently I I have a six-week-old baby and a six-year-old baby.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm besides running the company, I don't have time for anything else.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I get it.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_02: I get it.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_02: Well, if you don't mind, can you walk us through your professional journey and then how you got to Confermo?
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: So I started actually initially working for the British government and I was working for the Ministry of International Trade.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: So my job was to make sure that UK companies will still perform well after Brexit in 10 countries of Central and Eastern Europe.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: And that was a really amazing experience.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's a lot of like lobbying, a lot of business, but more like a business from more like a political perspective almost than rather than actual business.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: So what I wanted to do was uh just to build something of my own after a few years.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: So I first established my own company.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: It was a product I was missing on the market.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: It was a premium green teas in a teabag.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: So I established that company and I learned a lot on that because I thought I would be just focusing on building a great product, but it was so much more about distribution and about a lot of bureaucracy.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: So I learned a lot on that.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_01: I outsourced that company to my family, it's still running.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: And then five years ago, I joined as a late co-founder, Confirmo.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: It was back then, it was a very small, it was like a product within a crypto exchange.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: It was just processing Bitcoin focusing on Central Europe.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I clicked with the original founder very well and uh basically joined him to build it as a global business.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_02: Well, tell us what Confermo does and how it's making an impact in the payment space.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, so Confermo is a global stablecoin infrastructure.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: So what we do is that we help businesses to accept stable coins and other cryptocurrencies from their end customers and also make mass payouts to their end customers.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: And all of this without really needing to understand stable coins or crypto.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: So our typical client is any digital business or online business.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: It could be a trading platform, it could be a marketing agency that wants to accept funds from customers all over the world, or they can have contractors or traders all over the world they want to send their funds to.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: So this is like the core of the business, but I just like have to say it evolved a lot because, as you know, like in crypto, there's a lot of evolution, especially in payments.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: So when I joined, we were processing only Bitcoin.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: So this is what I quickly saw is definitely not the right product market fit for payments.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_01: So I was talking to a lot of customers and I've heard for the first time about stable coins five years ago.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I immediately realized this is exactly what we need because stable coins they combine like the good things about blockchain, which is like near instant settlements, almost free transactions, but at the same time, no volatility that Bitcoin had.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: So we added stable coins five years ago, and then really it was uh prerequisite, I think, for the company to start growing, because only after that I could like onboard like really fine product market fit in a lot of industries.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_02: So a couple of just kind of confirmations, it's a totally global and you mainly focus on digital businesses that sell globally.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_02: Is that a fair assessment?
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so we're we're a global company and yes, so basically we can serve like to anyone, any online platform, but it makes most sense for businesses that are kind of natively digital because they were often, they would have customers all over the world.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: But like honestly, a lot of our customers are also very maybe conservative e-commerce.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: So like our customer is like one of the biggest e-commerces in Central Europe, and they've been our customer for the past like six years.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: So it really ranges, like broad range of sectors.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_02: Well, what's the biggest challenge your company is solving for your customers right now?
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so you know, like the the challenge of sending money is you know, it's a very, very long-term challenge.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I think, you know, so many technologies were trying to solve this.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: So just moving money like cheaply, regardless of the location, of time zone, and also of the amount you're sending is really what we're solving.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: And again, just coming back to stablecoin and blockchain being perfect product market fit for the digital age, because the traditional payment trails, they're not really uh built for borderless digital world.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they still depend a lot on banks and banking hours and paper forms, and it's also so fragmented, so it's naturally very ineffective and very expensive system to process money.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: So if I already mentioned our typical client, let's say a trading platform that you know has clients all over the world, so they would typically have implemented maybe 20 payment methods.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: Now, if you if you look at like a lot of these businesses, it's completely normal to have 20 payment methods.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: But with stable coins, you literally can have one.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: So there are certain industries, like for example, like trading, where stablecoin payments now are, could be like 20, it could be even more percent of their overall payments are now in stable coins because both the end customers as well as the platforms they favor stable coins.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: So we're solving this issue.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: And then at the same time, I have to say this world of crypto and stable coins is getting globally much more regulated.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: And generally, I think it's uh it's a really good thing that the industry is now getting the attention from the regulators because it signals that the industry is taken seriously.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_01: But at the same time, it is causing a lot of complexity basically for the businesses if they would want to use crypto or stable coins.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: We see that a lot now in Europe.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: In Europe, we have like the strictest regulations we have, the license like Mika license, the payments license from the Central Bank of Ireland.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_01: And what we see is now so many businesses they had to offboard their crypto payments companies, and they we have a lot of inbound now because a lot of these companies can no longer operate in Europe.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, for companies like us, it's a good thing, but then at the same time, fintechs generally you just spend so much funds on making sure that you comply with all the regulation, but it's paid back, you know, nicely by the trust of the customers.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: And then obviously in the US, you have the Genius Act and globally you have many other regulatory bodies.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: So we're just what we're really doing is that we're making sure that the technology, the compliance, and the regulatory complexity is taken care of for our customers who can just focus on their business.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_02: So do most of your customers use you for the acceptance side or the payout side, or just a pretty much a combination of the two?
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so actually we started purely on the pay-ins side.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: So uh we had a checkout, like most standard checkout you're used to.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: And we still have that.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I have to say maybe that's one of the reasons why it has such a good conversion and you know it still serves customers so well because we literally had the checkout for like 12 years.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: So we keep on fine-tuning it for 12 years.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: So it's really a great experience for the end customer, and we just keep on innovating it.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: But in the past four years, payouts have been rising dramatically, and now it's actually majority our payouts.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: And to be honest, it actually does make sense to me because I think the experience for the end user honestly is still better served by Apple Pay.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_01: Apple Pay is like the ultimate perfect experience for the end customer, and stablecoins still don't offer that.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like, is it true?
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I do understand that the payouts actually they have great utility, you know, when you want to send out money cross-border or you know, to your contractors.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_01: So payouts are rising, and we don't see it only on our numbers in Confirmo, but you see this as a global trend in stablecoin payments.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, well, what would you say differentiates Confirmo from your competitors?
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I would say it's three things.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I would say it's it's trust, it's the regulation, and then it's technological innovation.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_01: And on the first, I think on trust and like quality of the service, I think it's a funny thing.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: I was just thinking about it recently that uh, you know, we've been doing this for over 12 years, like without interruption, without any security incidents.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: And in the world of money, you know, money is ultimately so much about trust.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: So in the world of money and especially crypto, I would think that trust should be absolutely essential and the quality of the service.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: But what it just keeps on surprising me that even though we have this track record and we have like zero turn of customers, it's so difficult to sell quality.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's not just like for Confermo, this is a general thing.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: And it's I know it's a very basic observation, but uh me just like talking to customers, I'm still actually surprised that it's not enough just to like even prove, not just to say your, you know, your product is a great quality, but even if you can prove it, it's often not enough for the customers.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: And that's like that's fair, it's not a complaint, but it's just like the world that we live in.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I see that yes, quality, I think is like an essential thing that's kind of like a matter of course, and you have to have more than that.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: So the second is the regulation that I already spoke about.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: So there's a lot of regulatory complexity currently, and we're making sure that our the businesses they're compliant with their local regulators, and we're also doing the transition monitoring that's very important in stablecoins and in cryptocurrencies.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: Basically, what you do is that you're able to, we're able to monitor each transaction from the end customer where it's coming from and where it's going, and to make sure it's not because in in blockchain, you know, it's pseudo-anonymous, which means that you can always check where the the transaction comes from in terms of kind of like the history of uh where the funds are coming from.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: So we always check that and we immediately stop the transaction if it comes from some you know problematic source.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_01: So that's one thing, and then it's the innovation.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: And there are so many things why customers wouldn't leave because there's so many small features that we do.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: But like for me, the very exciting one is our product, uh, subscribe.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: Subscription, like in a standard payments world, subscription is something so basic.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you obviously have so many subscriptions that you forget about on your credit card, but actually it was not possible until now in crypto.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: And so many people were surprised by that because it seems like such a basic thing.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: But the technology did not allow it because basically, crypto, like the the whole point about crypto is that you should always be in charge of your own wallet and your own money.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: So the technology, it was very difficult actually to just do it technologically.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: And we've been working on this for the past four years.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: We did many iterations, many failures, uh, because I've had so many customers who really wanted to have subscription on stable coins.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm extremely happy that we released that solution a few months back, and there's customers who are already using it and they're super happy.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: So this is the product I'm very proud of right now.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_02: Well, where do you see the biggest growth opportunity in stablecoin infrastructure?
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so you know, generally the whole industry is growing so much, right?
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: So you already see that the transaction value is larger in stablecoins now than design mastercard combined.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: The payments volume in stablecoins is like doubled, I think, last year.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: So generally, you know, the industry is growing.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: But I think it's particularly interesting to look at it more as like a like really like an evolution in payments, like a revolution almost, I would say, because you see parallel, for example, with credit cards.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: So credit cards, when they emerged in the 50s, they were considered to be very unsafe and actually very like a scammy, actually.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: And there were two ways how credit cards became mainstream.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: So one was that there was the broadening use case for credit cards, and second was external catalyst, which was the internet.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: And you see something very similar now happening with stable coins.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: I see that for the past five years, the use case for stable coins is broadening so much.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, there's so many more use cases right now.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: But I think the the major external catalyst for the acceptance and use for stable coins and blockchain payments will be agenc payments, which is something that's inevitably coming.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: And agentic payments, they simply cannot operate with the old, the standard payment system.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: Because, you know, me, like someone like me who's been explaining to businesses for past years why they should use stablecoin payments.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: There's some unique elements about stablecoin payments, which is like near instant settlement.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: That's already great for anyone when you're paying.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: But then there were things like programmability, which honestly is a like a cool thing to have, but honestly, nobody is really using it, I would say, effectively now in payments.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: And then third thing are microtransactions, which, yes, it's a good thing, you know, that you can, you know, you can send uh even small amounts, but again, like not a massive, massive advantage.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: But now with agentic payments, these are exactly the things that agentic payments, it's a necessity for agentic payments because now when you know online the interaction will be less and less between humans and it will be much more between autonomous systems, these interactions will be first that they need to be instant, and then programmability will be essential because you will have no human in the loop, which means that you need to encode already into the transaction certain elements, certain conditions about whether the transaction can happen.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: So this is again possible only on blockchain.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: And then the third things are microtransactions.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: I generally believe that the whole economy of internet will be moving more towards microtransactions, that it will be paying more for, you know, API, compute, information.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: So these microtransactions, literally in sense, will be essential now piece of kind of like the new kind of internet economy.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: And again, like this is something that you can do only on blockchain.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like this the old payment rails were not built for that.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: So this is like the huge opportunity where I see the whole kind of stablecoin and blockchain payments are entering.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, what does success look like for Confirmo over the next say three to five years?
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so Confirm has been growing a lot over the past five years.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: We've we've been growing like on average 130% a year.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: And actually, right now we've been growing 100% month on month.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like the growth is now crazy.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: But what I keep on talking about in Confermo is just pushing the focusing on AI, which is something like everybody knows, but I think still people do not understand the true implications of not adopting AI in your company, and that's completely regardless of the industry right now.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think there are now the kind of two revolutions happening for people in payments at one time.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I think this, the kind of like the move towards blockchain payments that you see all the big companies are doing, like you know, Stripe, Visa, MasterCard, PayPal, they're investing into their own stablecoin infrastructure.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: So that's kind of one piece of this evolution.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_01: But then on top of that, there's emergence of AI and LM models that are completely changing the game globally in innovation.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, it doesn't even matter whether you're great in payments if you do not accept AI and you're not AI native, you're not able to pivot extremely fast to deliver and ship products extremely fast and be extremely effective as an organization, you will just lose the game.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: So I think there are actually two battles now for companies like ours going on that you kind of have to win.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: And uh yeah, so this has been my main like a big, big focus in ConFermo.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: So for me, the success is if in the next you know three or five years we not only succeed as a kind of stablecoin payments pioneer, but we're also extremely successful in being native with uh AI.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_02: So you've already talked about this a little bit, but we can dive a little deeper.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_02: So what are some of the biggest trends?
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_02: And you've already mentioned AI and agenda commerce and those things, but let's let's talk about those a little more.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_02: What are the biggest trends that you think are currently reshaping the whole payments industry?
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, so I believe it's the blockchain and it's AI that's kind of like it's amplifying kind of the move right now because stablecoin payments and blockchain payments, they they were adopted over the past five years.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: It was, you know, mostly used for cross-border payments, which we hear a lot.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: But actually, what you actually see on the numbers is that the majority of stablecoin payments are used like as a treasury movement.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: So they're actually not used that much for cross-border payments in the like a whole scheme of things, but they're used a lot where companies are transferring uh their own money or like a large treasury transfers.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: So there are many use cases right now and innovation in stablecoins.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: But again, I really do believe that the kind of the big driver is AI right now for payments.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: So I already spoke about agentic payments, but just like maybe a bit more about what the what AI is now doing to payments.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: I think I think it's interesting that it's to some extent also leveling the playing field because you have generally in the tech world, every five to seven years, you see completely new disruptive technology coming.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: And that's very often you would have like these legacy companies who are not able to innovate uh fast enough, and then there's a rise of new kind of generation of companies.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: There's a story of Snowflake, Datadog, Databreaks, when they're able to kind of compete with the legacy players because they're very fast and uh they can innovate quickly.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: But what AI did is actually it kind of leveled the playing field to some extent.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: So I think now kind of like the legacy is no longer, it doesn't have to be a dead weight for even big companies.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, big companies they generally move slow, so it's still to some extent a debt weight, but AI is actually enabling everyone, if you really kind of just enforce it, to really move very quickly.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I think even in payments, even big companies now have a chance to kind of not lose the game to the kind of small innovative companies, which I think would be maybe the case before AI.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: There would be the smaller startups who were doing blockchain payments who might actually take over from those old big payments companies.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: But AI, I think, changed this game to some extent.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_02: And you you said something in there in the last couple of answers that I I think something that I'm hearing a lot about because I talk a lot about agentic payments and think that it is a a huge part of the future.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_02: But I think the first step is the the business-to-business agenc payments that are gonna happen and are going on.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_02: And then when you tie stable coins to that, I mean I think that kind of puts it all together where, like you said, the the treasury is using it and it's more of agentic payments and one computer talking to another computer or an agent talking to an agent, and it's it's on the business-to-business kind of back office stuff.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_02: You are you kind of do you agree with that?
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, 100%.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's exactly as you say right now, you see majority of the payments, a majority of stablecoin volume is in these big treasury movements.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: And exactly like I actually don't know these numbers, but I now probably there are people still moving the money, but this will be the case less and less, like it will be more and more autonomous systems communicating between each other.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: And actually, it will make more and more sense because they will probably make less mistakes, right?
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe than humans.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_02: Well, let's pivot a little bit and talk about kind of you and and your career.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_02: So if you could go back and give yourself advice at the start of your career, what would it be?
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: So I think for me it would be just like try to really realize what I want to do versus what maybe your parents encoded for you that you should be doing.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: So my parents uh really wanted me to be a diplomat.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I went to work for, you know, like diplomacy.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_01: But I think after a while I realized I actually love business.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: I just love like building.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I would just, and this is what I'm trying to like teach my kids or at least the older one, just like constantly think what actually drives you, what you actually like doing, and not what I want or what you know looks good.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_02: So let's wrap up with this one final question.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_02: So what do you think is the one thing that payments leaders that might be listening to the show today, what should they really be thinking hard about right now?
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: So just to reiterate, I think, you know, stable coins are very very often in blockchain that I see a lot of companies still think as a like niche think they might put on a roadmap in a while.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: But I think it's they really should start thinking about stablecoin payments as a necessary evolution and operations question that should be on their table right now.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think that's so spot on.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, for the audience out there, I've I've done a lot in the last few months, a lot of episodes around embedded payments.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_02: But moving forward, we're gonna do a lot around stable coins and sort of the whole agentic payments and agentic commerce thing.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_02: So this is this is gonna be one of the kickoff episodes to starting down that theme.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_02: And so, Ann, I think that the way you summed it up there was kind of a great way to wrap up the show.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_02: So thank you so much for being here today, sharing your knowledge.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_02: I know you're you're right back to work after being off for a little bit, so I really appreciate you taking the time to do this.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much, Greg.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: It was great to be on the show.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_02: And to all you listeners out there, I thank you for your time as well.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_02: And until the next story.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for joining us this week on the Leaders in Payments Podcast.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: Make sure you visit our website at leadersandpayments.com, where you can subscribe to the show and where you'll find our show notes.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: If you enjoyed listening, please share on your social channels as well.