Latest / Tabernacle Talk - A Bible Study Podcast with Pastor Bryon Self / 1 Timothy 2:11-15 - Women and Authority In The Church

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1 Timothy 2:11-15 - Women and Authority In The Church · Tabernacle Talk - A Bible Study Podcast with Pastor Bryon Self

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Welcome to Tabernacle talk Tabernacle talk is a Bible study
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podcast brought from Tabernacle Baptist Church in Essex, MD.
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I'm your host Brian self. We hope this podcast encourages
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you to know Christ, grow in his word and show his love to
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others. Let's dive right in.
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Hey, quick insert right before today's episode.
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This is a much longer episode than normal.
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The topic that I go over today in second Timothy chapter 2
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verses 11 through 15 is something that has been used and
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abused and ignored and all sorts of stuff.
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So this is going to be a longer episode.
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And so just want to let you know right at the beginning, if
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you're like, listen, I only need I only have 20 minutes this
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morning that I encourage you maybe go over and listen to Tim
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Wildsmith's episode as he is walking through scripture every
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single day. He's doing the Bible in a year.
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I'm listening to that every single day.
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And so if you only have like 15 minutes or so, go over and
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listen to that episode today. But without further ado, here is
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the longest Tabernacle Talk episode ever on Second Timothy
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chapter 2, verses 11 through 15. Welcome back to Tabernacle Talk
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and we have got a doozy of an episode today.
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I am excited for this week of Tabernacle Talk episodes
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beginning with today. We are in first Timothy chapter
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2 and we're going to be looking at verses 11 through 15 today.
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Now, as we started off at the beginning of First Timothy
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chapter 2, we were instructed to be praying for those that are in
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positions of leadership in our government so that as they make
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good decisions and as they, if you will, as they do not
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persecute or harm or make life difficult for Christians, that
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then the Christians are going to be able to flourish to
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evangelize others. And so that's the first
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instruction that is given. It is that we are praying so
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that we would be treated well, so that evangelism is made
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easier then in a verse #8 and I'm going to read here through
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verse 15 so we can get the full picture of what Paul has for us
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here. He says, therefore, because of
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this, because of the gospel message, evangelism that is
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preached with a view to the outside world, he says, I want
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the men in every place to pray, lifting up holy hands without
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anger or argument. This is a way to not be angry
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and arguing and a way to be to be praying everywhere, he says.
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Also, the women are to dress themselves in modest clothing as
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opposed to expensive, lavish, gaudy clothing, he says.
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They are to dress themselves with decency and good sense, not
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with elaborate hairstyles, gold, pearls or expensive apparel, but
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with good works, as is proper for women who profess to worship
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God. Don't let people look at you and
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go, man. She's got, you know, the
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Balenciaga shades and the Versace dress and this and that.
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Don't let your dress be something that's ostentatious
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with the kind of an older word for it.
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Don't let your dress be ostentatious.
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Don't let that be what draws attention to you.
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Let your good works, the way that you treat other people,
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your kindness, your speech. Let that be what people take
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note of in your life. Because this is what for people
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that worship God, this is what should typify them.
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So we have these things. Don't do this, but do this
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instead. Verse #11 A woman is to learn
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quietly with full submission. I do not allow a woman to teach
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or to have authority over a man. Instead she is to remain quiet.
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For Adam was formed first, then Eve, and Adam was not deceived,
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but the woman was deceived and transgressed.
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But she will be saved through childbearing if they continue in
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faith, love, and holiness with good sense.
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So here there is a pairing. Verse #8 has.
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Here's what the men are supposed to do and what they aren't
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supposed to do. Verses 9 and 10 have, well, I'll
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say 9 through 15 have. Here's what the women are to do
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and here's what they are not to do.
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So there is to be a good works that we are clothing.
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I this goes for everyone. Everyone should clothe
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themselves with good works and not with ostentatious clothing.
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But here for the church at Ephesus, as Paul is writing to
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Timothy, as he is helping to guide a church that had lost its
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way with false teachers, Paul says Timothy, here's what the
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men and the women need to know. Here's what they need to do, and
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here's what they need to not be doing.
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And verses 11 and 12 actually give us a here's what they
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should do and here's what they should not do as it pertains to
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women and the teaching ministries of the local church.
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Now 2000 years removed from Ephesus, we would read verse 11
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and we can bring in a lot of cultural baggage into this
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verse. It says a woman is to learn
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quietly with full submission. If I were to perhaps just get up
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on a Sunday morning and say, hey, listen, you know, I, I've
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got lots of my friends that are out there in the congregation
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each week. And I say, all right, Mary and
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Shelley and Teresa and Joan and Laura and lots of, you know,
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others of my friends. Sherry, listen, I want you to
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learn quietly with full submission, my congregation
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would receive that word from me in this cultural moment in a
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very different way than this congregation would have received
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this word. What do you mean by that, Brian?
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There was especially in the time period between when the Old
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Testament was completed and when the New Testament began, there
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were a lot of the rabbi's, the teachers of the Old Testament
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that had really, I'll phrase it this way, they had really toxic.
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They had some really, really bad ways in which they thought about
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women. They actually said it would be
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better for the Torah, the the Old Testament.
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It would be better for the Torah to be burned than for it to be
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taught to a woman. There was so many like you can
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read through. I believe the Mishnah is the
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title of the collection of written materials of the rabbi's
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from about 300 BC to 280. I believe is about that time
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period. The Mishnah was here's all of
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these rabbis thoughts about the Old Testament and so you can
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read through those and you will find some things that are just
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very derogatory towards women specifically things that would
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never be said in the Old Testament or in the New
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Testament and it would go against what Scripture tells us.
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So to a group of people that would have from the worship of
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Yahweh, from the Old Testament scriptures that would have heard
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from the Rabbi's, the women cannot learn the word of God.
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Paul tells the women that they ought to learn the word of God.
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And what a joy that that would be for those like Timothy from a
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Jewish background. And you remember Timothy learned
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his faith as we read together in Second Timothy 1.
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He learned his faith from his grandmother and from his mom.
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So this is not a indication of a lack of importance on women.
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This is not any sort of indication on a, if you will,
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subservience due to inferiority of women.
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So verse #11 a woman is to learn quietly with full submission,
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contrary to the rabbi's, contrary even to what Paul would
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have heard from people during his training as a Pharisee.
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He says Jesus included women in his group of people that he was
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traveling with. We know obviously about the 12
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disciples, and then we know about the kind of larger group
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of 70 that often accompanied him.
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But then you can think about the women that traveled with him,
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Mary Magdalene, Salome, his mother and many others that you
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can read their names and some of what they did in the Gospels.
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So Paul says, Contra Judaism at this point in time, that the
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women were to learn. They didn't have to have as in
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the Tabernacle and the temple. They did not have to have their
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own separate court or section that they were in that then the
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men got to be in their own court and they got to hear the the
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Torah taught, but the women would never get to hear that
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Paul says no, what what was happening in Judaism is not
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here. What is going to happen in the
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Christian Church. So they are to learn this is a
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good thing not a bad thing. Now he says here a woman is to
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learn quietly with full submission.
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Now because of the misuse of verses and authority things over
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the last several 100 years, some people would view this as wow,
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OK, well I guess the men can learn loudly and defiantly.
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No, this is saying by the same general rules As for anyone that
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is learning from someone else, and especially anyone that would
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be learning from the Word of God and from their elders, from
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their pastors, which we're going to be going over next episode.
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By the way. This is intimately tied together
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with the formal teaching ministry and oversight of a
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local church. It's tied together.
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So I, I, I'll say more about that either this episode or next
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episode. So he says, I want the women to
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learn quietly with full submission.
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I'm looking up this word quietly.
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This is with quietness. Sometimes this can be with
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silence. This is not someone that is
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causing a ruckus. This isn't someone that is loud.
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This is someone that is unobtrusive, undisturbed, making
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little noise, restrained. These are all of the things that
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I want for every person to follow at Tabernacle.
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I don't want anyone that learns in a defiance, in a rude, in a
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obstructive manner. This is I want you to learn and
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I want you to learn recognizing that God has things for you.
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And so if you will don't be talking over other people.
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There are very unfortunately, especially at this time in
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Ephesus, there were various goddess cults in which women
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were viewed as superior to the men that they would say the
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whole world and humanity came from a mother.
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And so as a result, women have this incredible place of worth
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and supremacy over any men. And some of that goddess worship
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and the cult practices and teachings that they would have
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would even say you need as a woman to call on these idols,
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these goddesses, so that you will not miscarry your children
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and so that you will not die in childbirth.
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These were things that were all being taught.
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And so in Ephesus, you have people that are, you know, I'll,
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I'll phrase it this way. They are good at Torah,
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following Jewish people. And you also have people that
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were once a part of a cultic and Pagan worship.
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And so here Paul says, OK, ignoring what the rabbis taught
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about the place of women, the women are to learn.
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And when they come and they learn, they're not to be
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behaving or they're not to be teaching like these priestesses
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of these Pagan goddesses. They're not to be that either.
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So it's, if you will, it's doing a, I'll not say balancing act in
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the sense of, OK, there's some good in both.
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No, he's saying this over here with the rabbi's is wrong.
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And this over here with the Pagan priestesses.
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That is also wrong. But women have a place and they
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are called into the worship of God and they are fellow citizens
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and fellow heirs with men. So then in verse #12 as verse
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11, I would contend the main objection is to the way that the
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rabbi's were influencing what was happening in the church.
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You can even think back to the beginning of First Timothy 1
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where Paul tells Timothy, some of these people, they are
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wanting to teach the Old Testament law, but they don't
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know like what it's for. They're going into miss Fables,
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endless genealogies, speculations.
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That's not the point. Like Jesus is the point.
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And we follow God with a pure heart and a good conscience and
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sincere faith. So there's that aspect where you
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had people influenced by Judaism and then for the people
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influenced by Pagan worship. Paul says, verse #12.
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He says, I do not allow a woman to teach or to have authority
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over a man. Instead, she is to remain quiet.
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There has been probably 3 different ways that people have
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taken this verse. One, one way that people have
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taken is this verse that I solidly reject and I will tell
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you guys this would be unbiblical would be to say Paul
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here is being sexist, but Jesus wasn't sexist.
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And so I can ignore this. And so this means nothing to me.
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That is absolutely the wrong mindset to have any time we
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encounter scripture growing up, you know, predominantly, you
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know, I was three years old when Y2K happened for those that live
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through that time period. So I have grown up in the 21st
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century. And so hearing or reading things
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like this is only something that I ever encounter when I am in a,
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if you want to call it this, a religious circle.
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There is something ancient about what is being said here.
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But can I also tell you, the last hundred, 150 years would
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show us that a rejection of all of God's standards of gender and
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sexuality have not made those aspects of our society
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predominantly better. It has made our society worse.
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And I mean that specifically, not in a listen.
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We gave women the right to vote. Now look at the world.
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No, absolutely abhor any thoughts or things like that
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that that I occasionally hear from, you know, random
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podcasters and things on the Internet or even some purported
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pastors that just have a very misogynistic view of the world.
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What I am saying here is that God has a way for our lives, for
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our homes, and for our churches to operate, and we disregard the
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Word of God at peril to our souls and to our families and to
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our churches. So I don't ever want to come to
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any portion of Scripture and say this is not for me.
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This is written to a New Testament church.
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I am a part of a church in the New Testament age.
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And so therefore this has some import and some meaning for me.
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So first way to take verse 12 is all right, Paul's just being
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sexist. And so I'm going to ignore
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everything. The second way that people have
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taken this, which I would say would probably be the majority
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view up until the 1800s or so would be that women are
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prohibited as a results, as we read in verses 13 and 14, like
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by creation order that women are not ever called to the office of
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pastor, elder, Bishop, overseer, whatever title you want to give
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that that leader within the local church.
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Women are never called to that role.
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Instead, God has reserved that for men and you might say, well,
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what in the world would make them quote, UN quote, deserving
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of that role? And the answer would be simply
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the choice of God to utilize men within that role.
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Or as we'll see next episode, the picture of a father within a
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family is the picture of a pastor with a church, which
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seems personally, which seems funny to me as I am the youngest
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male member at Tabernacle. But in one sense, I am a
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spiritual father to those within our church.
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And so it is not due to perhaps like greater mental acuity of
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the men or the emotional nature of the women as very
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unfortunately, I I've seen people write about many times
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before. The perhaps best illustration
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that I can give of because people would certainly say, well
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this seems unfair that men could be pastors or men could be
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elders and women cannot be elders.
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Like why? Why would this be?
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And a verse that's often quoted as Galatians 3 In Christ there
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is no male or female bond or slave, Jew or Gentile, but we
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have all been made one in Christ Jesus.
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And we would recognize at the foot of the cross, none of the
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human metrics by which we evaluate one another.
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None of our differences make any difference at the foot of the
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cross. That whether you're young or
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old, no matter your ethnicity, no matter your gender in front
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of Jesus. And when it comes to the Kingdom
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of God, when it comes to our life with him, our gender does
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not matter one iota. But within families, we would
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certainly believe that there is such a distinction as male and
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female. We would believe that a man
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should marry a woman. And that is what makes up a
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family. And so let me rethink about
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where I was. So gender does matter.
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It does not matter for our salvation or rock with God or
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worth. And so why would gender play any
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role whatsoever in who is and who is not an elder or a pastor
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of a church? And one of the greatest kind of
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illustrations or biblical examples that I can give of this
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is when you have the 12 tribes of Israel, it kind of sort of
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got bumped up to 13 for a reason that I'm going to mention here
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in a SEC. So you have these 13 tribes of
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Israel. Only one tribe was chosen to be
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the priestly tribe. Like one tribe was the one that
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would devote all of their time and attention to 1st the
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Tabernacle and then the Temple. That they taught God's word,
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that they were given the purpose of preparing the sacrifices,
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putting those on, teaching people the Torah.
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All of that happened, and only one of the 13 tribes was given
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that responsibility. And one could say, well, what
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would make the tribe of Levi any more worthy than the tribe of
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Benjamin? You know, you'd say Levi was the
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second. He's either the second or third
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born of Jacob. And you know, Judah is the
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fourth born son of Jacob. And that's the kingly tribe that
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David and his line came from. So why in the world would Levi
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be the one? And we have to come back to the
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fact that God chooses to do what he wants to do.
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And just like someone from the tribe of Benjamin could say,
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well, man, I, I just, I wish that I was a leave it a Levi.
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I wish that I was a priest. I wish I could offer the
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sacrifices there in the temple that would then not make that a
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person from Benjamin worthy. I I say that worthy, it would
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not make him chosen by God to accomplish that purpose.
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We can even see this in the book of I believe it's second kings,
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if I recall correctly, where you have one of the kings of Judah.
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So this is a person that has been selected by God to rule
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over God's people, Israel, but he offers a sacrifice in the
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temple. And as a result of that, for
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anyone that really knows this story well, it may have been
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that he offered incense, as I'm recalling.
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I think that might be more correct.
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And so don't angrily be like, listen, Brian doesn't know
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anything he's talking about. I promise I remember the story.
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There's just a lot of stories in there.
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So King Uzziah, I believe, is his name and King Uzziah, he
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offers incense, which is only something that the priests and
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Levites were able to do. Now you would say, all right,
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well, he's he's the king, so he should be afforded to do a lot
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of the things that he wants to do.
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And he's from the tribe of Judah.
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And, you know, his family lineage was the one that Jesus
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was going to come from. And so if anyone should be able
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to just offer some incense, you know, put some smell good stuff
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before the Lord, shouldn't this guy be be able to do it because
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he wants to do it? And the answer that God gave was
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absolutely not. And Uzziah was struck with
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leprosy as a result of his ignoring what God had said about
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who was authorized to be the priest and who was authorized to
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offer incense. In the same way, God has it so
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that only men and only qualified men, which is what we're going
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to look at next episode, have the responsibility and have the
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privilege to be elders or pastors of a local church.
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And that is not something that anyone can take onto themselves.
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It doesn't matter if a person goes well, I just want to be a
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pastor. And since I'm a guy, I'm going
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to be a pastor. No, as I read, oh, I don't know
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how many episodes, this was ago now.
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God is the one that calls people to pastor in a church and God is
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the one that threw the moving of that church's leadership and
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threw that congregation that any pastors or elders are raised up
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for that body of believers. And there's always in the best
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of circumstances, there is always an evaluation of that
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individual as to their walk with the Lord, their relationship
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with other people, their testimony towards the outside
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world. All of that is in view when
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someone is when a man is evaluated for the office of a
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pastor. And so Paul's going to go over
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that in detail in chapter 3 and verses one through 7.
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So back to verse #12 here. So that's kind of our big
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picture. Let's zoom back.
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And he says, I do not allow a woman to teach or to have
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authority over a man here. This word have authority.
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This is the only time that this word is used in the New
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Testament and it is a pretty rare word in in Koine Greek,
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which is the type of Greek that was spoken back 2000 years ago.
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I actually personally prefer the way that the King James Version
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translates this verse where he says I do not allow a woman to
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teach or to usurp authority over a man.
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This word, if I have my pronunciation correctly, it's
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often Tain. It is to dominate someone else.
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It is to exercise independent control or ability.
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This is someone that says I am not subject to the elders or I'm
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not subject to the pastor. I do what I want to do.
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I say what I want to say. I will teach whatever I want to
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teach regardless of what these authority figures are saying.
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So from this we we can deduce a few things, especially taking in
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some other things. From the New Testament we know
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that God called some women to be prophetesses, that they would
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declare what God had said. One of the first deacons in the
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church at Jerusalem, Philip, had four daughters that were
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prophetesses that God had given them this ability to say what
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God had said. Or we would read in First
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Corinthians 11 that the women are not supposed to prophecy or
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pray in church in that particular context without a
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head covering. Now, that is far beyond the
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scope of what we're talking about today.
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Let me just summarize that part of First Corinthians 11 by
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saying this. There were ways that false
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priests, sorry, false priestesses and prostitutes
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would dress and how they would interact like with their hair
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and all that kind of stuff in Corinth.
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And Paul encourages the Christian believers don't look
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like false worship. And even the prostitutes there
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in Corinth, we're so often tied in with the worship of these
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false goddesses. And so Paul says don't look like
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them when you are doing the things that you're supposed to
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be doing as the church. So we know that God had purposes
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for women to be speaking into the lives of others to care for
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one another. In Titus two, we would read that
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the older women in the faith, if you will, the mature in their
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faith. Women are supposed to be
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teaching those women that are new to the faith or younger or
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immature in their faith. We would also read in Second
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Timothy, one that Timothy, a man, had learned his faith from
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his grandmother and from his mother.
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So there is a place and time and purpose for women to teach
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others. You can even think about not
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Ananias and Sapphira, it's the other one, Priscilla and Aquila.
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So Priscilla is the name of a woman.
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Aquila is the name of her husband.
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And they were a couple that Paul met in Corinth.
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They were a Jewish couple that had come to faith in Jesus.
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And there was a tremendous Jewish speaker and orator named
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Apollos that had come to Corinth.
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And he was telling the people about, you know, John's baptism
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and everything that John had said because he didn't know
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about Jesus yet. He'd only heard about John the
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Baptist message. And so Priscilla and Aquila,
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they brought Apollos into their home and they taught him the way
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of Jesus. And then Apollos actually became
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a tremendous leader in the early church and especially there in
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that church at Corinth. So there is a place for women to
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teach. Paul sent the letter to the
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Roman churches by the hand of a gal named.
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Actually, I'm going to have to pull out my Bible and I
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apologize because there are two women that are named in Roman 16
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and I want to make sure I don't mention the wrong name.
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One of these is Junia and the other gal who is named Phoebe,
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and she's described as a servant, A diakonon, A Deacon,
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sent out servant with a purpose from the church at Centria.
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And so Paul sent the letter to the Romans with Phoebe, this
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messenger from Centria. And so she would have been the
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first one to read the letter to the Romans, to these different
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Roman churches. Many of the people, especially
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if they were slaves, would not have been literate.
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And so she would be the one that would first read what Paul had
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written. So here, as Paul says, I don't
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allow a woman to teach or to have to usurp authority or to
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dominate over a man. Instead, she is to remain quiet.
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Here is not an indication that women should just shut up and
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let men do all the talking. God has plenty of places and
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roles and families that he wants you to communicate the gospel to
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other people. Your, your Facebook page, you're
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not just supposed to remain quiet because you're a woman.
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You ought to, if you will say what God has said, post those
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Bible verses, share, you know, those good godly reels or shorts
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or Tik Toks or whatever platform that you are on and allow people
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to be able to hear God's word model through the way that
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you're living in the way that you instruct your, your kids or
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your grandkids or your neighborhood kids, like lead
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them in the right way. When there is times of perhaps
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like community learning and, and Sunday school or or small
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groups, when, when questions are being asked and there is a need
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for people to, there is a request for people to have
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input. Give your input.
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The Holy Spirit lives in you and you have the word of God.
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And so you are able to declare this as well.
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But be careful. There can be for men as well As
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for women, there can be a tendency to dominate, to usurp,
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to say I know better than these men.
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I know better than everyone else in this room.
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Let us all operate in humility and in submission.
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So if you have any more questions, please, like ask.
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Given the very volatile nature of this topic, I encourage you
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like shoot me a text to call, a direct message, you know, shoot
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me an e-mail. My e-mail is
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pastor@tbces.sex.com, pastor at tbces.sex.com.
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I would love to have more conversations about what this
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means and its effects on how we do church.
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So I just want to be faithful to believe what God's word says
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here while also recognizing this is not the only verse about
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women and and the rest of Christians even within the New
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Testament. So here Paul says, I do not have
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a woman occupying this role of the teacher, one of the elders,
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the overseers over a church. I don't let them dominate over
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men. Instead she is to remain quiet.
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It's unobstructive the way that all people listening to
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preaching should be. And then he says in verses 13
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and 14, for Adam was formed first, then Eve.
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So again, this is contrary to the Pagan teachings and their
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goddesses. He says Adam was first formed
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and then Eve. If you will, the old joke, what
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came first, the chicken or the egg?
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Here the the rooster came first. Adam was formed first, then Eve.
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He says an Adam was not deceived, but the woman was
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deceived and transgressed here. This word deceived the second
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time it's used here the woman was deceived is actually more
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emphatic than the first one. So Adam wasn't tricked into
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eating the fruit, Eve was tricked into eating the fruit.
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The word here would actually mean like to be completely
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deceived. Adam was not deceived, he just
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willfully rebelled. He said I am the one that heard
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the instruction from God and yet because here my wife is giving
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me the fruit, it doesn't say that Adam saw, Oh yeah, this
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fruit is good. It'll make me wise.
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It literally just says his wife gave to him and he ate.
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So Adam willfully transgressed and Eve was deceived.
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But then verse #15 a very weird verse if you don't remember the
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like Pagan goddess environment that they would have been in in
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Ephesus, it says. But she will be saved through
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childbearing if they continue in faith, love and holiness with
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good sense. Here, this is not a if you're a
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woman, here's how to be saved, have kids and have faith, love
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and holiness and good sense and you can be saved and the men can
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be saved through faith in Jesus. No, here.
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This is Contra the claims of the Pagan priestesses that would say
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you need to offer sacrifices or you need to worship or
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acknowledge this false goddess in order for you to not miscarry
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or in order for you to not die in childbirth.
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Paul says instead, no, God has his creation order and it is not
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women centric Contra to the pagans.
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And it is not that your safety is guaranteed by false worship
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of idols. Instead just know as you're
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walking with Jesus and you're operating in faith and love and
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holiness, that as you walk with Christ you will be saved even
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through your childbearing and your childbirth because God is
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the one that will sustain you. The Pagan goddess will not
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sustain you. I said there were three ways
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that the passage can be taken. The third way the passage would
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be taken would be that because of the Pagan religions that Paul
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is arguing against, that this was the prohibition against
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women having authority over men, that this was a singular time
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and place in Ephesus and that this doesn't go for all churches
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everywhere. Those are the main three ways
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that this has been taken. As Southern Baptist, we would
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hold to the second option, which would say that this is the
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command of God that he has who he wants as pastors, elders,
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overseers, those that have authority in, in particularly
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those teaching roles over the local church, if you will, in
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the gathered assembly together where everyone is together.
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What we might call today, you know, our worship service on a
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Sunday morning, that men, elders, pastors, bishops,
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overseers, those are to be men. As a result of what we would
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read here and what we'll see next episode.
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This has been the longest episode of Tabernacle Talk ever.
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I hope that it has been helpful to you.
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Again, if you have any questions, please e-mail, text,
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call. Would love to have a
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conversation with you. God bless.