Latest / Recovering Out Loud / Leaving the Party Scene Behind: Erick B’s Story of Sobriety, Freedom, and Purpose

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Leaving the Party Scene Behind: Erick B’s Story of Sobriety, Freedom, and Purpose · Recovering Out Loud

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Hello everyone, welcome back or welcome to Recovering Out Loud,
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the podcast where we get real about addiction, recovery and
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the messy, beautiful process of rebuilding your life.
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Today I sat down with someone whose story is as bold as it is
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inspiring. In today's episode, we delve
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into the transformative journey of Eric BA Man, who transitioned
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from the vibrant nightlife of Toronto to becoming a beacon of
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hope in addiction recovery. Once a successful club promoter
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entangled in the throes of substance abuse, Eric faced A
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pivotal moment that led him to seek help and embrace society.
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Today, Eric dedicates himself to helping others find their way
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out of addiction. He pursued formal education and
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addiction counseling, established A rehabilitation
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center in Etobicoke, and opened up three sober houses in
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Toronto. Join us as Eric shares his
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insights on the challenges of recovery, the importance of
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community, and the power of turning 1's life around.
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Today we talk about how addiction hides in plain sight,
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the psychology of denial and self deception, why rock bottom
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is different for everyone, rebuilding identity without
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substances, the spirituality of recovery and ego surrender, and
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how real fun and freedom are found in sobriety.
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I had a lot of fun with Eric today and I hope you enjoy this
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episode too. Eric, man, I appreciate you
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buddy. Thanks so much for coming here.
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I know you're a busy guy. You got a lot going on.
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And I texted you and within seconds you said yes.
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So I appreciate that. That's something that I learned,
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you know, in recovery is like when someone reaches out, you
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know, you, you do your best to to make it work, right?
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So I appreciate you. Thanks for coming on.
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Thanks for having me, yeah. We met about 10 years ago at
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Jack's and I was saying this to you outside in the parking lot.
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You had and, and I see this in a lot of people that have been
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working a good recovery program. You had this sort of levity and
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lightness and like Zen in you and you were a young guy.
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You still are a young guy. But I I remember I was attracted
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to that. And I was like, I don't know
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what it is that this guy has, but I want it right.
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And and so I got your number. You gave me your number and, you
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know, haven't looked back. You're a great friend.
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I appreciate you. I'm happy that we're
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reconnecting again all these years later.
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And yeah, you've done a lot in that in that time for a lot of
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guys and girls, but a lot of people in recovery, you know, So
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why don't you get us started? Tell us a little bit about your
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story and how you ended up here in recovery.
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Absolutely. So, yeah, what can I say?
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I, like I, I, I strongly believe that I was around recovery for a
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very long time before I committed on, you know, this
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program and, you know, entering a program that, you know, works
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for me. But so I, I really lived a life
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of like drugs, you know, sex, drugs and rock'n'roll for a very
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long time. I started DJ ING at a very young
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age, probably around 18 years old.
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And the, you know, my boss at the time also, you know, was
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using people around me were dabbling and stuff.
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I wasn't really like, I didn't know really anything about like
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heavy drugs at the time. More or less.
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It was like, you know, just a lot of weed and, you know, kind
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of like gateway drugs at the time.
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And I started DJ ING started making really good money,
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probably more money than a lot of my friends at the time.
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You know, they were all really focusing on going to school and
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university. And I was just like working on
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making money. And I was very successful DJ ING
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and I'm seeing all these, you know, events working for a
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corporation at the time. And what can I say?
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I, I did very well for myself, you know, like, but, but I
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didn't have anything to show for myself because everything that I
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was bringing in, I was spending it, you know, whether it was
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clothes, you know, girls going out partying and things like
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that. So I, I started hanging out with
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a lot of people that were older than me at the time.
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And even before that, my last year of high school, I went to a
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school called Vaughn. I did, I did a Co-op my last
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year and I wanted to do it at AI wanted to do it at a record
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shop. So I applied for this position
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at a place called Tracks Records on Young St. and, and I got in
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and because I, you know, I like DJing and things like that.
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So I started working at this place called Tracks, which was
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one of the most popular record stores in all of Toronto.
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This was way before, you know, Internet and, and you know,
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music online and things like that.
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So all the music that was coming in from, you know, all over the
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world that would get distributed here would end up at these
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record shops. One of them which being Tracks,
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we were able to, you know, get all the new music.
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And then all the these big DJs, you know, local DJs from Toronto
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that were playing in all the nightclubs all over the city.
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We're coming in and, you know, laying down the music and
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picking out what tracks they wanted to play for the, you
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know, the weekend coming up and, you know, the residencies and
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stuff like that. So I really got to know a lot of
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these big DJs. And lot of good actions, yeah.
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Tons of them, right? So.
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So through that I started getting into the underground
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world of, you know, house, house music, you know, raves, you
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know, after parties and things like that.
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And I started hanging out with all these big DJs and we started
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travelling. I started travelling with them,
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I became friends with them. And slowly, slowly I started
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hanging out with a lot of older people.
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This one guy who owned a club at the time really saw this, I
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guess my personality and being I could be a really good promoter.
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You know, he loved the, you know, I was really like out
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there and, and stuff like that. And I was very comfortable on,
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you know, reaching out to people and inviting people out and
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stuff like that. So he's like, I think you'd be
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an amazing promoter and I want you on my team.
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I'm opening up this club on, you know, downtown and there's a
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grand opening and you're going to be my main promoter.
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So I, I took on this position and I started promoting this
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nightclub at you know, the first nightclub that I started
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promoting at was called it, which was it was he had an after
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hours called exit for years. And then he opened up like more
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commercial club called it at the time.
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So I started hanging out there and promoting and meeting all
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these lavish people and, you know, being a something I like
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to call it, you know, and, and I kind of like really felt like in
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a way, like, you know, I had arrived, right?
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Like the book tells me so. So, yeah, through that process,
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I really started hanging out with a lot of people that were
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older than me. I got introduced to to drugs.
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I mean, I, I was going to a club called Industry.
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I was a regular there on a on a weekly basis.
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So all the biggest DJ's from all over the world were actually
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playing there. And this was a club that was
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going on for like 2-3 days, you know, and, and I started
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dabbling in, in, in pills. I was doing ecstasy.
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I was gonna say, back then, ecstasy was like the big thing.
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It was huge. Yeah, and you just pop a pill
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and you, you could dance for about like 3 days, you know, so
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like that was the first time I did it.
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And then, you know, slowly, slowly as you start getting more
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involved in it, you know, your tolerance level, you know rises
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and and by, you know, the end of the week.
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And I was probably doing about like 1015 pills throughout the
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weekend just to get the same feeling, right?
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So, yeah. And then, and then through the
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that, like I said, I keep going back to that.
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I was hanging out with these older people.
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They were a lot older than me, probably like 10 years older
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than me. I really wanted to fit in.
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I wanted to be cool. You know, they started dabbling
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in, in, in blow again. I was probably like 2022 at the
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time. I really didn't know what was
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going on. But I, I, I, I wanted to be like
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them, you know, and I, I wanted to feel like them.
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So I was always asking them, Oh, what's that?
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You know, And my buddy was always like, no, you're too
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young for this. And then one thing led to the
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next and you know, I'm doing a little bumps here and there.
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And then I, I got hooked on blow.
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And that was like, probably about like a 15 year old ordeal,
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you know, where for many, many years, I mean, I didn't think I
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had a problem. I, you know, one of my sponsors
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always used to say, you know, you're like a Shiner because you
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shine on the outside, everything looks good.
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You know, you got the house, you got the car, you got the girl,
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you got the money. But you know, on the inside, I
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was dying. And you know, I, I, I call it a
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slow burn. And you know, it slowly, slowly
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strips you away from all these things that you love and the
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things that you, you know, you're supposed to be doing in
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your life, you know, but you don't realize that it's a
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progressive illness, I call it right.
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So over time you start, you know, losing things and you
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know, your relationships start getting really, you know, you
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know, your problems in relationships and business and
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things like that. And that's what kind of happened
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to me throughout the years. But I had a business partner at
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the time where she knew I was just like I was in the grips of
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the disease and I was in this spiral where I didn't have a
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solution and I didn't know I could, you know, get out of it
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really. But again, I didn't think I had
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such a problem because when you surround yourself around those
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people. Lower companions, yeah.
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Yeah, when you surround yourself around, you know, those types of
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people and, and, and and those crowds and those parties, like,
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I mean, that's the only thing you know, you know, you that's
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the normal for you, right. So that was very normal for a
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long time, but she basically gave me a ultimatum basically
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saying that if you don't go and get treatment, then we're going
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to fold this business and we're going to go our separate ways.
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And that kind of scared me a little bit at the time.
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I did a walkthrough of treatment center called Bellwood.
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And, and I thought to myself, there's no way I can be in a
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place like this. Like, I could do this on my own,
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you know, And she, she gave me this whole letter and
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everything. And basically I, I kind of like
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blew everybody off in a way. I kind of made it seem like I
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was doing really well for a long time.
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I kind of made it seem like I had my shit together.
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I slowed down. I could really like, manipulate
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and hide my using. By that time I had my own place,
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so I wasn't around a lot of people.
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So yeah, I just kept on keeping on doing what I what I was doing
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right. And then I got introduced to
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another buddy of mine where we started a promotion company and
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we were promoting nightclubs about 5-6 nights a week.
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And I mean, you're out drinking 5-6 nights a week.
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You're, you know, everyone around you is using.
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Very difficult to say. No.
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It wasn't part of my vocabulary. So again, I was just like in the
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grips of this, this, you know, the disease of addiction.
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I think for a long time, but I, I really couldn't see the light.
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I really didn't think. I, you know, I was always
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justifying my using. I'm not that bad.
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You know, all my friends are telling me I have a problem, but
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you're all hypocrites because I'm using with you all.
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You know, the thing was like, I would, I would use and then, you
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know, I'd be using with them and then also I would use on my own.
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Yeah, you know, and I had a friend of mine who told me,
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listen, like when you're by yourself and you're using like
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the party's over, you know, you're not, you're not at a
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party anymore. And then when it came into
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recovery, I really started realizing there was a difference
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between partying and using. You know, partying is like, I'm
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going out, I'm going to dabble a bit, I'm gonna have some drinks,
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party, whatever. And, and I can shut it down, you
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know, and, and using was, you can't shut it down anymore.
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It's like you keep going and going and you keep getting more
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and finding Ways and Means to get more.
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And, and that's what it was for me for a long time.
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I, I, I was taught hanging out with these guys that were older
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than me. Like what you have, you finish
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and you get more. There's no saving it for next
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weekend. You know, there's none of that.
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So, you know, I like to say I learned the hard way.
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I really, I really realized in life that you are who you hang
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out with, you know, you are who you hang out with.
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And, and you know, the people I hung out with, we're just a lot
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of them are users and partiers and I didn't really have a
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direction on, on where they were going in their life.
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We were just having fun, you know, and I guess I, I enjoyed
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it for a long time until I didn't enjoy it anymore, you
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know, and there was a lot of nights and early mornings where
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I didn't like the way I was looking.
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I didn't like the way I was feeling, you know, I was getting
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very, very depressed. I didn't want to go to work
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anymore. I needed drugs.
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I needed things to, to use just to get me there and to make me
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feel comfortable in the environment.
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I became an introvert, you know, I didn't want to be around
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people as much. I didn't want to talk as much.
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Right. So yeah, I mean, it was, it was,
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it was getting to be very, very dark for me, you know, and I'm
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just trying to think about the life.
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Was there was there a moment I can relate to a lot of what you
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just said I we have very similar using, you know, pasts.
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Was there a moment where you kind of they, you know, a lot of
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people say rock bottom, you got to hit rock bottom.
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Maybe it was more than one, but was there a moment where you
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were like, man, this is it? Like, I'm done.
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I'm done. Yeah, I'm happy you're asking me
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that question because going back into my story later on where I
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was kind of like manipulating everybody, pretending I had this
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all together with my, you know, my first business partner, let's
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say the second business partner that I had this promotion
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company with basically introduced.
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And, and you know, kind of brought to my attention another
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letter that said the exact same thing that the first business
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partner, you know, introduced me to like years before.
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And just basically gave me an ultimatum as well, saying look
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at like you've been using for so long already, you know, like
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when are you going to change? You know, what are your plans
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for your life? Like you, you know, you can't
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get out of it on your own. You need help basically.
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And if you don't go and get the help that you need, I'm going to
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shut, you know, like we're going to go our separate ways.
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Yeah. So, so something for me there,
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like at that moment, I don't know if it was the grace of God
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that came in or, you know, some sort of awakening or I'll never
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forget that morning because I, I read this e-mail.
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It was an e-mail that he sent to me at like 7:00 AM coming off of
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whatever I was coming off of. And I was just like, wow, like
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this guy's right. Like when am I going to change?
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When I'm going to be using when I'm 50 years old?
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Like maybe I do need help, you know, maybe maybe I do need to
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like surrender to this thing or, or, or go to treatment or
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whatever that may look like, you know, and I didn't know what
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that looked like at the time. You know, I was always like
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worried all, you know, there's this thing, you know, about
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people in in rehab or, you know, the stigma, yeah, the stigma
16:19
around it or people like, you know, they're those people under
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the bridge or whatever that may look like.
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But so I said, I, I will, I'll look into, you know, going and
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getting help. That's, that's where, that's the
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moment I kind of hit a, a real rock bottom.
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And I said, OK, I'm willing to do whatever I need to do.
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You know, I, I remember it very, very well.
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I was on my porch in the front of my house and I was just like
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crying out for help. Like I'm done.
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You know, my girlfriend at the time, she's like, we'll do
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whatever we need to do. We'll get you the help we need.
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Reached out to my sister and, and but see, years before when I
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worked for this other DJ company when I was 20 years old, the
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owner of the company actually gave me a business card and he
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told me that I should call this, this addiction counselor who is
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Jay Pasternak, who he had on the show.
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So I reached out to Jay like years before, you know, coming
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off a binge of like 3 days, you know, it might have been like a
17:22
Tuesday. And I'm like, OK, maybe this
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isn't normal. Like normal people don't, you
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know, they use Friday night, they go to sleep and you know,
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yeah. So this was like Tuesday and I
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was just like coming down and I'm like, I popped out this card
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out of my pocket and it was, you know, Jay's number.
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And I'm like, you know, maybe, maybe I do have a problem.
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You know, maybe I maybe I should reach out to this guy and like I
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called him up and I, you know, I told him what I was doing and
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I'm dabbling in this and that or whatever it is I was doing at
17:50
the time. But when I got off the phone, I
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was like, I'm, I'm so young. I have my whole life ahead of
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me. There's no way like have that
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big of a problem, you know, but that was the first time that I
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reached out, you know, which was literally probably around like
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2023, maybe around there 22, something like that.
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And I remember, I remember vaguely like I met up with Jay,
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we went to a meeting, took me to a meeting, recovery meeting.
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And I had no clue what people were doing there.
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I was just, I was there, people were trying to talk to me.
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People were trying to like, you know, kind of bring me in.
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And I remember leaving the meeting and I, I just, I just
18:33
went right back down to the nightclubs for another like 7-8
18:35
years, you know, so I wasn't ready at the time.
18:40
I maybe I wasn't beat up enough, you know, so, but what happened
18:46
was I ended up, I ended up buying a house in, in North York
18:51
and we were, we were, we were partying a lot in this house.
18:57
Like I rented out the basement to another buddy of mine who was
18:59
a DJ at another promoter living in the house with me.
19:02
We were working and stuff, but we were having lots of parties
19:06
pretty much. And and my friend Jay had a
19:11
recovery house right behind my house, right.
19:14
So he, I would always see guys, I would always see guys in
19:18
recovery, you know, and I would like talk to them about
19:22
recovery. And I, I couldn't relate, you
19:25
know, I was always justifying it.
19:27
But yeah, one day I went out my backyard and I'm like, like, I
19:30
heard this voice. Are you my new neighbor?
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And I'm like, who's that voice, you know, sounds so familiar.
19:34
And then the back window opened up and it was my addiction.
19:36
It's. Funny how those people just kind
19:39
of come into your life, yeah. So I looked up and I'm just
19:41
like, wow, I'm like, this is this is like meant to be that I
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bought a house here and something was looking over me at
19:49
that. Absolutely at that time, you
19:50
know, and yeah, and I felt it. So from that moment on, I
19:54
started like talking to guys in recovery.
19:58
You know, I, I, like I said to you before in the beginning,
20:00
like I feel like I've always been kind of around it because
20:03
of that, even though I wasn't committed into the program yet.
20:08
And then and then what happened was I, I kind of.
20:17
When I fell to my knees that that that last e-mail my friend
20:21
sent me, then I was like, OK, I'll do whatever I need to do.
20:23
If I need to go away, I'll go away.
20:26
Lock me up, you know, and, and I was on a wait list to go to
20:33
Homewood. Yeah.
20:35
And before that, I was supposed to go to, like, Antigua, like
20:37
Eric Clapton's place. My parents were going to fork
20:39
out money. I was looking for a vacation.
20:41
I'm going to do this right. Yeah, you know, I was like OK,
20:43
I'm going to go away. I need the sun, the beach.
20:45
But I never ended up going. I told my mother I'm like
20:48
listen, I can do this on my own again.
20:49
I suffered for another like 7 years, but this time I was like
20:54
ready and willing to do whatever I needed to do, you know, and if
20:57
I needed to go away, I'm going away.
20:59
So, you know, we set up a visitation to, to do a
21:02
walkthrough this treatment center.
21:04
And I'll never forget, I remember driving on the highway,
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I was in the back of back of my parents car and I felt like it
21:09
was like a 12 year old kid, you know, like there was like, I was
21:13
like, where the hell did my life take a detour?
21:16
You know, like I ended up in a hallway doing a visitation of
21:20
this treatment center, walking through the hallways, you know,
21:22
checking out the rooms. And I was just like, where did
21:25
my life take the wrong turn? Because everything looked
21:29
beautiful on the outside. Like I said to you before, it
21:31
was sex, drugs, rock'n'roll. Life was, you know, and then I
21:36
found myself just just at this crossroad, I like to call it,
21:40
you know, and, and then when I was there, I'll never forget, I
21:45
heard this voice and this voice said like, stop listening to
21:49
yourself and listen to other people that found a solution,
21:53
you know, very, very clearly. And then and then I remember
21:57
leaving there, there was a wait list to wait time to get in.
22:00
It was probably about like a couple months.
22:05
So I reached out to Jay and he's like, listen, while you're
22:07
waiting to get into that place, why don't you just go down the
22:11
street? There's meetings at this place
22:13
called Jack's and just start going to meetings, you know, So
22:18
that's what I did Saturday afternoon.
22:21
I went down to a meeting. I was like out of my mind still
22:24
and, and I sat in this meeting and I met these guys that were
22:30
in recovery and I started hanging out with them and I
22:34
started going to meetings on a regular basis and I never
22:39
stopped going to meetings. And something shifted.
22:43
I started really changing who I was hanging out with.
22:46
You know, they say if there's one thing you need to change,
22:48
it's everything. And that's what I did.
22:49
I stopped hanging out actually with my best friends, people
22:52
that I was using with. I said, if you love me, if you,
22:54
you know, if you want the best for me, leave me alone for now.
22:58
Let me focus on this. And, and I, I really started
23:01
taking this program by the horns and I got, you know, I got a
23:05
sponsor and I started working this program.
23:08
It's funny how you said like, you know, there was this thing
23:10
about you where it was just like this.
23:12
I've always been a person where I've been like not too worried
23:19
about life or things. So my first sponsor always used
23:23
to say to me, Eric is like the no worries there, you know,
23:26
like, and then when I was taken through the book with this, this
23:30
woman who took me through this, you know, the program and stuff
23:32
where she really started working with me on the don't care
23:36
feelings, you know, like I have nothing to worry about.
23:38
I have nothing to care about. Like, you know, this higher
23:41
power, this, this God, this faith is going to take care of
23:43
everything for me. And that's kind of what I
23:46
started working through. So, yeah, that's kind of what
23:51
happened. I started going to meeting
23:52
study, I started working this program.
23:56
I, I turned my, my house that I was living in into a sober
24:00
living house. Wow.
24:01
So I started moving guys into the house that had, you know,
24:05
clean time, months, years actually.
24:08
And I drive around every single night to meetings with my car
24:14
filled up and I'd go wherever I had to go to pick up guys and go
24:18
to meetings with them. And I kind of felt like I just
24:20
brought this whole new energy into recovery.
24:22
We started doing retreats with like 30-40 fifty guys.
24:26
We'd go out to like different places and, and, you know, rent
24:30
cottages or lake houses and stuff like that and just start
24:34
opening up to each other and sharing and having this
24:36
commodity and this fellowship with each other.
24:38
And that's kind of really where my recovery kind of took off.
24:40
Yeah. You know, and, and, and I really
24:43
just, I started doing the work. I really start, started getting
24:46
down to like the nitty gritty of, you know, what we do around
24:48
here. And it's, you know, freeing
24:50
myself from the bondage of self and ego.
24:55
Yeah. All that stuff that's kind of
24:56
holding me back and, and just growing spiritually.
25:00
Yeah. And we always say it's not a
25:02
religious program, it's a spiritual program.
25:04
So I just try to like, be a good person today and, you know, love
25:11
thy neighbor as thyself. Like all these beautiful things
25:13
that we learn about, you know? They work, yeah.
25:16
Since we were little, we learned about.
25:17
Them. Yeah, there's something that
25:18
happens. I don't, you know, I I do
25:21
understand it, but I don't sometimes I try to overthink it
25:24
and it's, it's very simple. When I'm with new addicts and
25:27
new Alcoholics, I'm not thinking about me, right?
25:30
I'm not thinking about my problems and poor me and you
25:33
know, I'm, I'm just for that hour, 2 hours, 3 hours, whatever
25:37
it is, I, I'm able to get outside of my head and ask
25:40
someone else how they're doing. So you know, we're talking about
25:43
it outside today too, before we came in here.
25:46
So now you have three sober houses, right?
25:48
That that business grew. You know, you, you own, you
25:52
opened up a treatment center in Etobicoke.
25:57
What like if I were to ask you, you know, what's the common
26:01
theme? I I love this question of like,
26:03
you see a lot of guys come in and girls and you see a lot of
26:06
guys and girls go back out and relapse too.
26:09
What's kind of a common theme that you see with people that
26:11
are successful in recovery and putting together time and then,
26:15
you know, get to the relapse part too.
26:17
But what's the common? Yeah, it's a good.
26:18
Question I, I think like not rushing it like this is I was
26:22
just on the phone with one of my boys like this is a, this is a
26:24
slow process. You know, we come into recovery.
26:28
We want to get things really fast.
26:29
I want to get things back quickly.
26:31
You know, I have all these, you know, just because I'm clean 30
26:34
days or 60 days, I think I'm going to get the world back in
26:37
my hands. And it it's not, it's not like
26:39
that. Like it, it takes time and, and
26:41
you know, they say, you know, it works if you work.
26:45
So you have to work this program and it takes time and patience.
26:50
You know, you're, you're changing.
26:52
People don't like to addicts don't like to change.
26:54
You know, it took me a long time to even come to that
26:56
realization, you know, so it's, it's, it's a process.
27:00
You know, recovery is a lifestyle.
27:03
Yeah. This isn't, this isn't a, you
27:06
know, I'm just going to go to a meeting once a week and I'm just
27:09
going to, you know, try to stay clean and sober and things like
27:12
that. Those people will not be
27:13
successful in recovery. This is a lifestyle, right?
27:18
Like, so you like to work out, you know, you go to the gym on a
27:22
regular basis. That's a lifestyle.
27:24
You meal prep, you know, you, you, you do different exercises
27:27
on different days. You work different muscles.
27:30
Hand it out. Right.
27:31
There's certain things that you have to do.
27:33
So you get the results that you need and you're not going to get
27:36
big and buff the first day. It takes time.
27:38
You're going to see results in eight months from now or in a
27:40
year from now. It depends, right?
27:43
So I believe like recovery is really the same thing.
27:46
It's just, it's just for your mind, you know, it's your
27:49
thinking that needs to be, you know, checked, right?
27:52
It needs to be changed. You know, I kind of say that
27:55
people need to be brainwashed in recovery and that's the truth,
27:57
right? Our goal is to like kind of feed
27:59
people, you know, positive, you know, reinforcements on a
28:05
regular basis, whether it's just about being grateful or having
28:08
acceptance in life or getting out of self and doing things for
28:12
others. You know, like all these things,
28:16
these beautiful things, love and tolerance of others is our code.
28:19
Like all these things that we talk about, you know, in, in
28:22
meetings or in, in the program are things that they're great to
28:27
speak about at a meeting, but it's how am I putting them in my
28:30
everyday practice in life? The 99% of my life and my
28:33
practicing it, I can be good at the 1%.
28:36
And, you know, smile and shake hands and kiss babies and
28:39
meetings. It's easy.
28:40
Put out chairs. I'm great.
28:41
I'm doing great for sure. But then as soon as you leave
28:43
that room, the world hits you. Life happens for sure right now,
28:46
buddy. Yeah, exactly.
28:47
What are you going to do now? Yeah.
28:48
And they talk about the unmanageability and, and how we
28:51
can struggle with that because, you know, we want to live, you
28:55
know, we want things a certain way and, you know, we're not
28:58
living up to it maybe. Or, you know, we want things
29:01
like, like I said before, really quickly and really fast.
29:04
And so we struggle with that, right?
29:06
And, and a lot of people, I, I believe that just, they just
29:09
don't have the right tools or, or they're not going into their
29:11
toolbox and using, you know, what they need to be using.
29:15
Like, you know, they, they, you need to take action in this
29:17
program, right? So, you know, picking up the
29:22
phone, reaching out, I'm struggling.
29:24
I need help today. You know, whatever I need to go
29:27
to a meeting, I need to pray, meditate, open up a book, go for
29:30
a walk, you know, be around like positive people.
29:35
You know, people are that are like, so today coming back to
29:38
like, I am who I, I hang out with today.
29:42
I, I, I, I'm around a lot of people that are recovered that
29:45
are living a life that are, you know, they're happy, they're
29:47
joyous, they're free, you know, they're, they're not, you know,
29:51
struggling with the obsession of using drugs or alcohol on a
29:55
regular basis, you know? Continually working on
29:59
themselves, absolutely in some capacity, absolutely inside work
30:03
that we have to do. Absolutely.
30:04
Yeah, this is an inside job. That's what one of my guys said
30:06
yesterday at a meeting. And it's true, it is.
30:09
It's an inside job. Like things aren't going to
30:12
happen just because I'm sober, just because I put the drink
30:15
down or the drugs down doesn't mean like my whole world's going
30:18
to change. I got to do work on myself.
30:19
That's why we do like, you know, an inventory.
30:22
We go and clean the wreckage of the past, you know, that we go
30:26
out and make amends to a lot of people.
30:29
You know, there's lots of programs out there that aren't a
30:31
12 step recovery program that they are doing this stuff, you
30:35
know, and again, it's, it's, it's trying to be a different
30:39
person today, a different human being, more of a spiritual
30:42
being, I'd like to say. And, you know, try to live a
30:46
different life today, you know, than when, when I was out there
30:49
using you. Know cheating stealing lying
30:51
right like this this like bank robber I love that that's great
30:56
do you I'm sure you get a lot of and we have a lot of people that
31:01
that reach out to me that watch this podcast that are family
31:03
members of of addicts and loved ones.
31:06
I'm sure you get a lot of loved ones that reach out and say just
31:09
fix him, fix her. Like, help me.
31:11
I don't know what to do anymore. He won't stop.
31:12
He can't stop. What's kind of like, what have
31:15
you learned about the support system and family in an addict's
31:18
life? And you know, how do I support
31:20
my addict loved one? Yeah, it's a good question.
31:24
Listen, there's lots of programs out there that are going to help
31:27
support family members and loved ones for sure.
31:31
You know, they need their own program because the, you know,
31:35
this, this the addict and the disease of when he's using and
31:39
stuff, it really effects everybody around him, you know,
31:41
or her and, and a lot of people are going through a lot of
31:46
things, you know, when, when they're out there using, right.
31:49
So they need their own support network, their own community.
31:53
They need people that they need to talk to, you know, how to not
31:58
enable the loved one and, and, and, and give them money and
32:01
things like that to go out and use.
32:04
You know, there's a codependency factor there.
32:06
There is, you know, communication just got to be
32:09
some healthy boundaries set in place, you know, So these are
32:12
things that, you know, again, they're they're taught and they
32:16
need a program to learn how to deal with the addict themselves
32:18
when they're out there using, right.
32:20
Yeah, one of the great things about the rehabs that I've been
32:23
to, and it's 3 now. Hopefully, hopefully, God
32:26
willing, no more. Because I put my family through
32:29
a lot and I put myself through a lot too, right.
32:31
But every single one I went to had a family program where the
32:34
family like county came in and got educated about addiction on
32:38
how to not enable, how to support.
32:41
What's what's your view on like family programs?
32:43
And because I mean, you mentioned a lot of it there.
32:46
Art. Art has a family program.
32:48
Yeah, I'm assuming. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
32:49
What do you guys focus on? We focus on those things.
32:53
Definitely. There's there's enabling,
32:54
there's codependency, there's healthy boundaries.
32:56
There's, you know, just educating them on the addiction.
32:58
Yeah. What to expect when the loved
33:00
one comes home, you know, having the support in the community
33:04
that they need. But again, it's a lifestyle for
33:08
them to like, when do they start trusting their kid again?
33:12
You know, like, just because the kids got 30 days or 60 days
33:15
doesn't mean OK here, you know, he's healed.
33:18
He's fixed. Yeah.
33:19
Yeah, he's cured, Right. So it takes time.
33:21
I mean, I even, you know, I see it all the time, people that
33:25
come up to like a year and then decide to go out or two years
33:28
and go out and then I just see the family just breakdown again.
33:31
Yeah. It's like, it's so sad, you
33:34
know, And like, I see parents crying all the time, like, help
33:36
our loved one. Like, I shared it yesterday with
33:40
actually a family member with a mother.
33:42
I said, listen, I can bring a horse to water, but I can't make
33:44
them drink it, right. It's really up to the individual
33:47
who has to put the time and effort into their own recovery
33:50
if they want to be successful. You know, how willing are they?
33:54
You know, I was willing to do anything I needed to do to get
33:57
my drugs. So I got to be willing to do
33:59
whatever I need to do to be free from the obsession of using, you
34:04
know, or the thought of using. And the longer I am clean and
34:09
sober, I feel like the harder I need to work in my recovery
34:13
because, you know, I'm coming up to like 15 years in October.
34:17
And it's, it's, you know, you think, OK, you know, maybe you
34:22
can be normal again. Or you can have a drink or smoke
34:24
a joint or, you know, there's people are doing mushrooms now
34:28
and, you know, DMT and, oh, they're good for PTSD.
34:32
And, you know, you just hear all this stuff that's happening and
34:34
that that might be great and that might work for other people
34:37
and stuff like that. But I definitely don't want to
34:39
take any chances on that. You know, like for me, it's
34:42
about being completely abstinent from anything.
34:45
That's going to change the way I feel today.
34:47
You know I don't want nothing in my system.
34:50
I I I'm so happy you brought that up because I had a point of
34:53
my sobriety today. Luckily I'm not battling with
34:55
that thought of like this. I need to find God through
35:01
psilocybin or ayahuasca, you know, and I shared about this a
35:05
lot here, but I was at a point where I signed up for an
35:07
ayahuasca retreat. I was very close to going.
35:09
I paid, I was excited. I thought it was the right
35:12
answer for me. And I remember speaking to my
35:15
therapist. She's in the program as well.
35:16
She's sober and clean as well. And she just said, what makes
35:19
you think you're going to do it once?
35:21
And that that that was what clicked for me.
35:24
And I was like, holy shit. And it scared me.
35:26
I was like, I'm going to relapse if I do this right.
35:29
So I love that you said I don't even need to or want to take a
35:32
chance because it's not worth the risk, man.
35:35
Like the risk reward factor. And that's how I have to think
35:37
today is like any decision in my life when it comes to anything,
35:40
but it's especially substances. Steroids was one for me too.
35:43
I have to look at that again and say like the risk just outweighs
35:48
the reward tenfold every time. It's not worth it because I
35:52
don't know what's going to happen.
35:53
I started smoking meth in my last relapse.
35:55
I never thought I would do that. Yeah, yeah.
35:57
You know what I mean? I'll be using needles for sure
35:59
if I go back up like I I'm like pretty sure because it it's just
36:03
like my the way my mind works. It just I want more.
36:06
I want more. You know, 1 is too many and 1000
36:09
is never enough. We.
36:09
Have the disease of more. For sure.
36:11
And then you said, I love what you said too, about I have to
36:14
work harder today because it's a progressive illness.
36:16
If that's true, which I've found it to be true, that means that
36:19
I'm more I'll technically this is my opinion.
36:22
I'm more than I'll today than I was 10 years.
36:26
So I have to work harder to keep that at Bay.
36:28
For sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
36:31
I heard a speaker say years ago. It's like there's three, there's
36:34
three things that this thing wants to do to you, right?
36:36
So it's like it's irreversible. Like once you have it, you can't
36:40
go back. There's no going back to like
36:42
just managing or using once in a while, right?
36:45
And then it's it's progressive. So it's going to get worse over
36:48
time and and that it's fatal, right?
36:51
So at the end of the day, you know, it's going to find Ways
36:54
and Means to kind of Take Me Out.
36:56
You know, like you said, it's very patient.
36:59
Yeah, very, very patient. It's trying to wait for the
37:01
right time, you know, slowly, slowly, OK, you got 15 years,
37:06
You don't need to go to meetings anymore.
37:08
You don't need to work with guys.
37:10
You know, you own a treatment center.
37:13
You know, you got some sober houses.
37:15
You're doing good all these. Things.
37:16
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right.
37:17
And then it just starts messing up with your head and then you
37:20
know, it's just waiting for you. It's waiting for the right time,
37:23
you know, and it could be on a perfect day, sun is shining,
37:27
you're in Miami, you're in Mexico, no one's going to know.
37:30
And then, you know, Yeah. And it's just the first one that
37:34
gets you, right. So it's like for me, I really
37:36
try to stay vigilant. You know, I kind of wear this
37:40
program on my sleeve. I tell everybody I'm in
37:43
recovery. I get approached all the time
37:46
with drinks. You know, I, I work as well as a
37:50
DJ so I play at a lot of nightclubs still in the city.
37:54
I have, you know, a couple residencies and stuff like that
37:57
that I DJ at. And for me, what I love the most
38:01
is that AM behind ADJ booth and I can set the vibe for this.
38:06
I can play whatever I want and I can see people have a good time
38:11
and I don't judge. I don't care like if people are
38:13
using or doing whatever it is they want to do and if that
38:16
works for them, great. You know, I just knew when I was
38:20
doing that, I didn't know that there was people that were
38:23
getting clean and sober and that there was a solution.
38:25
So if I can be that guy in that industry or, you know, in
38:30
wherever, where they can reach out to me and say, look at like,
38:34
you know what, I think I have a problem or I'm looking to, you
38:38
know, for a solution in, in living a better life, in a
38:40
healthier life, then they can reach out to me, you know, and I
38:44
can show them away like beautiful.
38:46
Not, not everyone necessarily needs to go to treatment.
38:49
So my story goes is that I never ended up going to treatment,
38:54
right? I was on that wait list, but I
38:56
never ended up going because I spoke to my sponsor at the time.
38:59
I was three months into going to meetings steady.
39:02
I had a sponsor. I was like doing the work.
39:04
And I said to him, listen, like, do I need to go to rehab?
39:07
You know, like my the opening, like, you know, they're, they're
39:10
allowing me to go now. And and he said, listen, if you
39:14
keep doing what you're doing, you don't need to go to
39:15
treatment. So I never ended up going to
39:17
treatment, but I lived in a sober house with guys for two
39:21
years. And, and that for me was
39:25
treatment. Yeah, because I'm outside of the
39:27
bubble. Like, like, you know, you said
39:29
that I own a treatment center and stuff that I went back to
39:31
school at 32 having, you know, some, some dreams and stuff like
39:37
that of opening up a place in recovery.
39:39
And we ended up opening up a treatment center at the time
39:42
with my, my, my sponsor. And, you know, and it's been a
39:47
it's been very successful and and I'm really grateful for
39:50
that. But at the same time, I think
39:52
treatment's a really good place for people to come and break the
39:56
cycle of using every day. You know, a lot of people like
40:00
need a time out from life. Not necessarily even addicts,
40:03
just just regular people could could do with just going to
40:07
retreat. Yeah, yeah.
40:08
You know, have disconnect. Yeah, disconnect.
40:10
Get off the social media. Get off, you know.
40:14
Your schedule and your regular, you know, things that you're
40:17
doing on a regular basis and, and just take a time out and,
40:20
and just kind of get grounded and realizing what you need to
40:22
work on in your life, you know, and start looking in the mirror
40:25
at yourself, right. And and that's why I think
40:29
treatments really good. So it it kind of breaks the
40:31
cycle of using every day, whether it's a 30 day or 45 or
40:35
60 day program, but the real work starts when you leave
40:37
treatment right? So I believe you know, us who
40:42
have sober living houses, wherever, whoever has them are a
40:47
lot more successful in getting the stats up where people can
40:51
stay clean and sober long term. Because now you're out of the
40:54
bubble of treatment. You know, you're, you're dealing
40:56
with everyday life. You know, we're getting back
40:59
into school, we're getting back into work, careers,
41:03
relationships, getting back into like maybe you were separated
41:06
and divorced and you're you're having kids, whatever that is.
41:10
And you're able to navigate through those experiences clean
41:14
and sober with the support of a group of brothers in a house or
41:18
girl, you know, women in a house with counselors that you know,
41:22
you can ask questions and, and have that like, not the thought
41:26
of, OK, I'm going to go out because life's getting tough.
41:29
And it's, and it seems like when you're, when you're dabbling
41:32
with that thought and dancing with that thought is one of my
41:34
counselors used to say you're dancing with this idea of like,
41:37
maybe I could, maybe I could do it.
41:38
I'll control this time, this and that.
41:40
You're not bouncing it off anybody, right?
41:41
So it's a great idea in your head.
41:43
But to your point, when you're surrounding yourself with people
41:45
who are trying to live a better life clean and sober, you kind
41:48
of feel obligated if you're working a good program to tell,
41:51
to tell somebody like, hey, I've been thinking about getting back
41:54
on ADHD medication and that was my thing.
41:56
I never told anyone, you know, I told my wife, but I was dead set
42:00
on it. And she her first reaction was,
42:02
no, you shouldn't do that. But I wasn't telling people in
42:05
recovery. I wasn't telling them what I was
42:06
going through. You know, I wasn't telling them
42:09
my motive behind it. At the end of the day, I was
42:11
just trying to fix my inside. I was bored.
42:13
I was, you know, scared. I had all these emotions that I
42:16
wasn't telling anyone about. Right.
42:18
Yeah. So you, you mentioned a lot of
42:20
good stuff there, I think. I just want to say one thing.
42:24
I think like addicts or just whether they they call
42:27
themselves addicts or not, whatever that may look like for
42:30
each individual, people that come into recovery don't make
42:35
the best decisions in the first year.
42:37
And they shouldn't be making the decisions for themselves.
42:41
You know, they should ask for guidance and direction, right?
42:44
Because that can go a really long way in figuring out if
42:49
they're going in the right direction or not, You know, So
42:52
that's why there is other people that have come before us that we
42:56
go to, you know, for advice and like, should I be going to a
42:59
wedding like 3 months into the recovery?
43:01
Is that a good idea? I didn't, I didn't go to events
43:04
like that my first year. You know, people are drinking,
43:07
they're using like I go, I put in, you know, a booster and I
43:11
give them the money and then I'm out, you know, but you got to be
43:15
very, very careful. I think the first year in
43:18
recovery, you know, until you have a good foundation and, and
43:21
you're, you're spiritually fit and you have, you know, like
43:24
you're able, like eventually you'll be able to go anywhere
43:27
you want to go. I was.
43:27
Just going to say that so. I remember very very clearly one
43:31
night I was DJ ING at a place called Parlor Room and.
43:33
Yeah, I've been there. And I'll never forget it, but I
43:37
can't even remember how clean I was.
43:38
I might have been like five years or six years, but I, I
43:41
remember, I remember leaving and I, I got into my car.
43:45
It must have been like 3:30 in the morning.
43:46
I was by myself and I just started crying because I really
43:52
I was like free. Yeah, that gratitude cry.
43:55
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
43:57
But I was just free. I'm like, I'm, I'm like, I can
44:00
go anywhere I want to go. I didn't even think about using.
44:03
How is that possible being in that environment and, you know,
44:07
being around, you know, people that were were using and stuff
44:10
like that. So for me, that was a spiritual
44:13
experience and there's been many, many spiritual
44:15
experiences, you know, graduating school at 32, you
44:19
know, was a spiritual experience.
44:20
I cried. I'm like, you know, to to have
44:22
that diploma and, you know, certificate to allow me to move
44:26
on and, and in this direction of helping people and stuff like
44:29
that. Yeah, you know.
44:31
That's, that's amazing, man. I, you know, I hadn't thought
44:33
about that in a in a few weeks. I would say I've had many of
44:36
those gratitude cries too, where it's just you can't even
44:39
believe. Where you're at?
44:41
And it's not like it's not, it's never I just bought a boat or I
44:45
just bought a car like it's amazing.
44:47
It's never ever that man. It's usually, you know, for me,
44:50
I wonder that standing out of my mind is I was driving down to
44:53
run a marathon, my first, no, my second marathon and I, I wasn't
44:57
a runner. I could never do things like
44:59
that, right? I never had the discipline, the
45:01
energy, the, the capacity to do that ever in my life.
45:04
But in sobriety, I was able to do something amazing like that.
45:07
And I was driving down to the to the Toronto waterfront and a
45:10
song came on. It's usually, it usually happens
45:12
when a song comes on, right? And it just spoke to me and, and
45:16
I just, I'll never forget it. I was like, I can't believe
45:19
where I'm at today. Like I can't believe I'm free.
45:22
Like you said, I can do whatever I want if I'm willing to pay the
45:24
consequences. The sponsor said for sure.
45:27
Yeah. You know, it says that in one of
45:28
the one of the literatures too, is like, we can go anywhere.
45:31
It's funny that you bring that up.
45:33
We can go anywhere in the world. Yeah, as long as we're on in fit
45:35
spiritual tabition, right. Yeah.
45:38
So a a lot of people struggle with this.
45:41
How am I gonna have fun in recovery?
45:43
Like, what am I gonna do? I'm never going to get, you
45:45
know, my big thing when I first came in 10 years ago, my big
45:48
thing was how am I not going to drink on my wedding day?
45:51
I couldn't fathom that. And then people kept telling me,
45:53
just get through today, man. Just get through today.
45:55
Me too. And sure enough, on my wedding
45:57
day, I didn't have a drink. And that was, that was a
45:59
miracle. I love it.
46:00
So I can relate to that because I thought the same thing in the
46:03
beginning. You know, how am I not going to
46:05
have a drink of champagne on my wedding?
46:07
But yeah, it was just about focusing on one day at a time,
46:11
you know, but having fun in recovery.
46:14
I mean, that's the whole thing. Like, that's what I really want
46:16
to bring. Yeah.
46:17
That's what I try to bring to people because it is possible.
46:22
I can go out. I can have a blast.
46:23
I can go to music festivals, concerts.
46:28
I can go up north. I can be, you know, in the
46:30
cottage and hang out with people.
46:31
And my goal is that like, you know, doing these fun things and
46:36
activities is I have a lot more fun when I'm doing them with
46:39
other people in recovery as to both, you know, as opposed to
46:42
myself, right. So yeah, having fun in recovery,
46:48
it's it's the best thing in the world.
46:49
And today I can feel everything. I'm not blocked, I'm not numbing
46:53
it with things. I can actually remember what I
46:55
did the night before, the day before, you know, so.
46:59
Yeah, it it's like your priorities change too, right?
47:02
Like fun, just fun takes on a different definition.
47:06
Absolutely. So look at that sunset.
47:09
This is fun for sure. I never thought that was fun
47:11
before, but I can sit with my wife and just watch nature
47:15
unfold. Absolutely, buddy.
47:17
What a beautiful gift that is, you know, But I, I would have
47:20
said you were crazy if if you said that that was fun before.
47:23
Yeah, for sure. You know, Yeah.
47:25
Because there's a peace and serenity that you have within
47:27
yourself today, I think, you know.
47:29
Yeah. Yeah.
47:30
Like you can look at the little things today and be awake to it.
47:35
I think recovery is about being awake.
47:36
Yeah. You know, I heard a speaker say,
47:39
like, you know, I went my whole life sleeping, you know,
47:42
dreaming that I was awake, like, walking around pretending that I
47:45
was awake, but I really wasn't. Just because your eyes are open
47:48
doesn't mean you're awake. Right.
47:50
So coming into recovery and doing the work on ourselves, I
47:55
always say it's like when we come into recovery, you're like
47:57
a baby man. You need to be spoon fed this
48:00
program, you need to be loved and care for it.
48:03
And slowly, slowly start crawling.
48:06
And then you start walking a little bit and you look people
48:08
in the eyes and you start building this confidence back a
48:11
little bit, right? Recovery starts allowing you to
48:14
become the man or or woman that you want to be, that you're
48:17
really supposed to be, you know, And I, I believe the drugs and
48:20
the alcohol just strips you from everything slowly, you know?
48:26
So cutting, baffling and powerful.
48:28
Yeah, as they say. You know, I like to ask this
48:33
question towards the end of my podcast because I think I think
48:38
it's important. But you know what?
48:41
What do you say to that addict or alcoholic that's shaking,
48:46
scared, you know, crying, sweating, miserable?
48:51
What do you say to that person right now?
48:56
I would definitely say that there is hope.
48:59
And if you want to change your life, you can.
49:02
You deserve to be happy. You know, you deserve a better
49:05
life for sure. But you also have to surrender
49:09
completely. And if you surrender and if you
49:12
are willing and open and wanting to change, there is a solution
49:17
for you. But you're going to have to do
49:19
work. And it's just like everything
49:20
else, Anything you want to do in your life, you have to work at
49:23
it. You have to practice whatever
49:26
career you want, you know, even being a father, you got to
49:29
practice being a dad or whatever that may look like for you,
49:31
right? So I, I feel that yeah, there's
49:36
definitely hope for people out there that are struggling.
49:38
Like I have faith. I I see it, you know, if I see
49:41
it every day, I see, I see miracles around me all the time.
49:45
I. Was going to ask you is there?
49:46
I forgot to, but I think it's important to Is there a specific
49:49
case person? You don't have to obviously
49:51
break anonymity, but is there something that sticks out over
49:55
the years that inspires you like a certain scenario case?
50:00
Anybody picking up a year medallion or like a couple
50:03
years? For sure that that inspires me.
50:07
For sure. I have like, I just, I actually
50:10
just facilitated last week, A7 year medallion, a four year
50:15
medallion and a one year medallion all in one night.
50:18
And they're all three buddies of mine.
50:21
So for me, like, what really inspires me is seeing the family
50:29
members so happy and seeing their loved ones change.
50:32
Like for me, that like just touches my heart, you know,
50:35
brings tears to my eyes. And like I, I just, yeah, that's
50:39
the gratitude I get when some, when I feel like, wow,
50:42
somebody's actually free from that bondage of, of drugs and
50:46
using, you know, and they're living a different life and
50:50
they're getting married and they're having kids and they're,
50:53
they could never even imagine their life.
50:55
I always tell people you can't even imagine what your life will
50:58
look like in recovery. It's true.
51:00
You know, it's it's beautiful thing, right?
51:03
But I always say normie normies won't understand.
51:08
They don't get it, but I, I feel like this program or, you know,
51:13
whatever program it is that you're doing, it's, it's a, it's
51:17
a gift from, it's a gift from God for me.
51:19
And there's a power like it's an unbelievable power.
51:23
But my thing I would just say is that there's hope for sure, you
51:27
know? Awesome.
51:30
Yeah. Where can people find you?
51:31
Eric? Do you want to shout out
51:33
anything? Yeah, I mean, if people are
51:35
struggling for sure reach out to, you know, we have a, we have
51:39
a, a treatment center that people can, if they need
51:42
treatment or they need outpatient counseling or maybe
51:45
they don't need treatment, they just need a day program.
51:49
There's an online program that we offer to people.
51:52
So it's www.addictionrehabtoronto.ca.
51:57
We have sober living for guys that just want to come in and,
52:00
and you know, live in a sober living house for, you know, a
52:03
couple months that could be beneficial for them as well.
52:09
And what else? You can see me on the dance
52:12
floor. Yeah, I love it.
52:13
I gotta come see you. Yeah, I love it.
52:15
One of my favorite things to do now is is dance in in recovery
52:19
and and be sober because I, I've learned over time that I do
52:22
actually enjoy the music. And you have to your motive has
52:25
to be right. In my opinion.
52:27
You can't just go to a nightclub to have fun.
52:29
In my, in my experience, sorry, I shouldn't say that I have to
52:32
go to places with the right motive.
52:34
I can't be going to just steal vicarious pleasure off for sure,
52:38
right. Yeah, I enjoy the music.
52:39
I enjoy dancing and so I love it.
52:41
Yeah. So that's funny you say that.
52:43
Like for me, I, I, when I stopped doing drugs, it really
52:47
brought me into what I really loved about music itself.
52:51
Like I loved music and dancing and, and then I felt like the
52:56
drugs and everything just took me away from it, so far away
52:59
from that. So now that I'm clean and sober,
53:01
like I just, I love the music. I feel it.
53:03
I, I love the energy of people. I love watching them dance and
53:06
have a good time and it's a beautiful thing.
53:09
So for sure, you know, you can definitely come out and see me
53:12
play if you'd like and that's it.
53:15
Love it man. Music is the best drug.
53:17
Absolutely that. Thanks so much, Eric.
53:18
I appreciate. You thanks for having me and I
53:20
wish you all the best Thanks brother, and many, many more
53:23
Yeah, thanks. Thanks for listening.
53:25
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53:31
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53:34
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53:37
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53:41
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