Latest / Becker’s Healthcare Podcast / Scaling Behavioral Health with Team-Based Care and Purpose-Driven Leadership with Sandra Nichols

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Scaling Behavioral Health with Team-Based Care and Purpose-Driven Leadership with Sandra Nichols · Becker’s Healthcare Podcast

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  At Insight Global Health, we are dedicated to
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  delivering them. Visit us at insightglobal.com.
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  Welcome to the Becker's Healthcare Podcast recorded live
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  at the sixteenth annual meeting at the Hyatt
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  Regency in Chicago. I'm Ella Gruder, a writer
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  for our behavioral health line, and your host
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  today. I'm joined with Sandra Nichols, CEO of
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  Panacea Behavioral Health and Wellness Centers in Virginia
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  Beach, Virginia.
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  Sandra, thank you for being here. Thank you
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  for having me. Could you briefly introduce yourself,
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  your role, and the scope of your organization,
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  and also just currently what's commanding most of
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  your attention as a leader?
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  Sure.
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  So I'm Sandra Nichols,
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  and I'm the CEO and owner and
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  nurse practitioner
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  at Panacea Behavioral Health and Wellness Center. And
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  the scope of our organization
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  is behavioral health,
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  testing, medication management, psychotherapy,
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  and overall wellness
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  for patients
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  in states where we have providers who are
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  licensed. Currently, our concentration
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  is in
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  the Commonwealth Of Virginia, but also North Carolina,
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  Florida,
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  and,
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  there's other states where we're licensed as well.
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  Arizona.
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  I'm in 14 states that I'm licensed, but
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  I'm not really practicing anymore. I'm I'm growing
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  the providers and running the practice.
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  And the current,
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  situation
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  is scale.
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  Using
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  the new technology that's coming out to meet
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  the needs of those who need behavioral help,
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  especially in rural areas. Virginia has a tremendous
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  amount of rural areas. We're on the Far
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  East Coast,
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  but I'm very aware that there's a lot
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  of Virginia where health care
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  is not readily available.
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  Wonderful. Well, thank you so much for that
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  introduction.
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  For our first question, in a year marked
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  by rapid change, what recent decision or pivot
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  required the most leadership conviction from you,
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  particularly when it came to aligning people,
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  resources, or capabilities.
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  So it that's an interesting question for me.
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  I was really struggling with our administrative team.
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  We had just brought on a new,
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  COO,
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  and she's fantastic. She's got about thirty years
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  of experience
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  in medical practice management.
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  And we were struggling in that we felt
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  we had the right people
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  for the organization,
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  but they were not necessarily in the right
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  role.
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  And
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  it was very difficult because when you're in
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  a small or mid sized organization,
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  I think you tend to make personal relationships
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  with people, and
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  it's hard to have those difficult conversations
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  when they're not in the right role. And
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  you can have someone who's very
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  loyal to your organization
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  and has some fantastic
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  qualities.
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  But it's frustrating for that employee, and it's
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  frustrating for the organization overall if they're in
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  a role that is not well suited
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  to their strengths.
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  No one wants to come to work every
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  day and feel as if they're failing.
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  No manager wants to have an employee that
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  they like personally,
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  and they're trying to mentor, but
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  they realize that person is not
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  in the right role. So that was
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  that was difficult.
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  I hadn't really thought of it. And since
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  we're on a podcast, I love podcasts, and
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  I was listening to the, Craig Brochel's Leadership
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  podcast,
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  and he has an episode on there about
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  the, the right person, the wrong seat. And
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  he talks about they're on the right bus,
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  but they might not be in the right
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  seat on that bus.
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  And before I had the difficult conversation with
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  our team,
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  I
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  asked them all to listen
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  to the podcast.
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  And so when we got in our meetings,
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  our individual meetings, I was able to say,
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  do you feel like you're on the right
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  bus, which is our
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  organization.
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  Do you feel like you're in the right
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  seat?
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  And I really felt like that was just
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  a blessing for me to be able to
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  have that tool. It didn't come straight from
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  me, but it was it was showing that
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  this is an endemic thing in other
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  organizations.
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  And how did that moment challenge your assumptions,
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  and what did it change about how you
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  approach decision making, talent, or organizational readiness today?
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  Oh,
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  it challenged my assumptions because I
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  felt almost maternalistic
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  for my employees.
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  And I knew that this person had left
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  a job that she had been in for
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  more than twenty years to join our organization,
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  and I felt responsible
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  for her. But
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  it
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  listening that podcast by Craig Groeschel and taking
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  a different twist
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  allowed me to see that keeping her in
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  that position was not
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  good for her or for me.
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  And it's given me through that experience,
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  the leadership,
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  experience, I guess, to go forward if that
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  happens again.
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  So I'm able to
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  recognize now that I need to take at
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  least every six months a check-in with the
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  COO and make sure that people are in
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  roles where they can flourish, where they can
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  feel successful,
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  where they can grow professionally and probably personally
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  because you you have to have that
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  feeling of accomplishment
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  to do well.
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  And when you think about the forces reshaping
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  healthcare right now, where do you believe leaders
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  need to be more decisive,
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  especially when balancing
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  speed, risk, and having the right teams in
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  place?
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  I think leaders need to be more decisive
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  in growing
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  their organizations.
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  Because there's so many opportunities now, it's very
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  easy to get distracted by the squirrel that
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  just ran across your path.
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  But taking a step back, having a few
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  moments to be reflective
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  on why you started the organization or why
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  you joined the organization,
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  where you envision it heading
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  is the growth challenge that you've
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  that you are considering, is that aligned with
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  your mission? Does that align with your core
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  values? Does that align with your vision?
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  And as uncertainty
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  has become the norm, what leadership habit or
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  mindset has been most critical in keeping your
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  organization and your people moving forward?
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  I would say giving yourself the permission to
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  be wrong,
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  because
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  I know that I I do not always
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  have the right answer.
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  I learn something new every day.
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  At least one thing, I try to,
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  understand and bring people to the table in
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  my organization to help teach me
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  as well as me to help teach and
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  lead them.
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  And I think as a leader, that's what's
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  really important.
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  It's also been interesting for me to learn
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  that
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  while I like to build my own structure
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  in my job, many people don't. Many people
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  want structure provided for them, and lack of
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  structure
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  leads to great uncertainty
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  and discomfort.
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  So when we can
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  bring a new person into the team, or
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  even with the people who are already in
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  our team,
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  learn each other's strengths
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  and
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  learn how we all fit together to fill
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  the gaps,
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  and
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  encourage people to speak up with innovative ideas.
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  Because very often, they know how to do
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  their job more efficiently than I would. I
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  don't want to be the CEO that comes
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  in and says, this is how thou shalt
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  and give them a directive that makes them
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  less efficient, less productive,
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  and less competent in their role.
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  And how are shifting workforce expectations
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  around flexibility,
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  purpose, and mobility influencing how you design roles,
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  schedules, or care teams today? So we have
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  a really interesting model and I've been told
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  by some that they don't know
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  any other behavioral health practice that does this.
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  When you come into our practice as a
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  new client or patient I'm a nurse, so
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  I'm always gonna say patient, but I know
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  therapists say client.
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  When you come into our practice, you're going
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  to see
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  a nurse practitioner,
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  a physician,
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  or,
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  a psychologist,
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  PhD, or you're gonna see a PA,
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  and they're going to be part of the
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  care team. Even if you don't see them
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  again, they're going to be part of the
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  care team that helps direct your care. So
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  if you've come to us and you say,
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  I just wanna see a therapist. I don't
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  want med management.
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  That's fine. They'll see you and then they'll
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  refer
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  you to a therapist that specializes
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  in the type of issue that you've expressed.
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  And then that person is a resource
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  for the therapist that you're seeing. We've also
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  brought in acupuncturists
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  because we believe in mind body connection. And
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  we understand that a lot of times when
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  we store emotional stress in our physical bodies,
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  many people that have behavioral health
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  complaints also have physical complaints. And so, we
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  work together for those. We have a therapist
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  now who does neurofeedback
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  and mind mapping, brain mapping. And so,
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  you know, we're really looking at innovative ways
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  that we can have a care team
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  for each client or patient rather than just
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  one person.
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  And that way,
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  there
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  can be a lot of ideas going into
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  a treatment plan rather than just one person
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  who may or may not be a good
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  fit.
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  Because we hear a lot of people say,
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  well, I've seen a therapist and I didn't
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  like that person or I didn't like this
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  person. It's a very personal
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  decision,
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  and building rapport
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  with someone
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  on a psychotherapeutic
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  level
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  is not gonna happen with every client that
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  may be assigned by a receptionist or administrator
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  to a therapist.
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  But I think it gives the patient confidence
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  as well as our clinical team
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  and it gives them flexibility. You know, they
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  can they can be in different time zones.
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  They can see patients virtually as long as
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  they're appropriately licensed and credentialed.
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  They can talk together over teams. They can
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  meet through, you know, HIPAA compliant platforms
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  and discuss patient care.
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  And I think it gives us an advantage
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  because it adds depth
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  to the treatment plans.
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  Oh, wonderful.
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  Sandra, thank you so much for joining us
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  today, and thank you for tuning in to
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  the Becker's Healthcare Podcast brought to you by
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  Insight Global Health.
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  If you enjoyed this discussion, be sure to
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  follow us along for more conversations from Becker's
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  sixteenth annual meeting. I'm Ella Reuter, and thank
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  you for listening.