Latest / The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast / The Courageous Ones | Anne Watson Enneagram Type 6

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The Courageous Ones | Anne Watson Enneagram Type 6 · The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_01: Hi friends, welcome back to the Simply Wholehearted podcast.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_01: It means so much to have you choose to take this conversation along with you today.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Amy Wicks, your host, and here at Simply Wholehearted, we provide perspective, purpose, and plans to help you love God, love others, and live your best life.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we are traveling through our summer in the Aneagram, but along the way I've caught a little summer cold.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: But we're going to stop to visit and learn a little bit more about the Type 6s today.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: And why they aren't as anxiety-ridden or fearful as you might think.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: By now you know that I value the inside of the Aneagram, and I believe that this resource will guide you to create your best plan for a wholehearted life.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: Now, for those who are trying to determine the type you lead with, you'll want to download each episode to see which you might resonate with most.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: And if you're confident of the type you lead with, you'll want to tune in to each episode because we have something for every type every week.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: And not to mention, it may help you better understand the other types in your life.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: Before we dive into this conversation with my good friend and champion of your message, Ann Watson, here are some fun and helpful facts about a type 6.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: They are loyal, witty, and often very responsible.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: They are motivated by their need for security.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: And they are supportive, honest, and very committed to their friends, family, and even workplace.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: Type 6s like the type 5 are in the HUD triad, but they are like the type 1 and 2 in that they are in the dependent or compliant states, and they are also present-oriented.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: Here are some great tips to get along with the type 6.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: Don't judge them for their anxiety or cautiousness.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: Respect their need to ease into new experiences.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_01: Understand when they are overreacting, try to remain calm and help them work through it.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: And in the hint, be willing to laugh and joke with them.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: Now, you've already gotten to know Ann Watson from a podcast earlier this year, but today she is giving us a deeper glimpse into her mind and the mind of the type 6.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: I think you'll learn a lot.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: And by the way, I want to give a shout out to Dora for stopping me the other day at our community pool.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: She has five kids.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: But when she folds laundry, she also uses that time to tune in to the Simply Wholehearted Podcast.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: I love thinking that these conversations help make the mundane a little more cheerful.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so grateful to have listeners like you who take time to share their appreciation.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: It means so much.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: So, alright, friend, you're headed off to a big high school reunion in your husband's 30th.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: That's so fun.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: You are so young.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: No, our neighbors across the street, they just had their he had his 50th high school reunion.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, what?
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: They still do that.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, yeah, I guess if you really like the people you grew up with, why not?
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: I know, right?
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: I was super impressed.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: One, I didn't realize he was the age he was, but when he said that, I was like, okay, that's cool.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you hide your age well.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: So in light of now understanding, because we're gonna talk about how kind of your journey of mistyping, we're gonna talk about that.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna talk about because you are a six, but last time you were on the podcast, you mentioned that you led with a type two as a type two.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so we're gonna talk a little bit about that, and then also um about the fears because sixes are kind of widely known as being associated with anxiety and being fearful and all of that, but come on, people on that.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_02: I have to own it.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's true, but this is why it makes you so great at what you do, because you have faced your fears head on and you are doing it, you are sharing the message that the Lord has put on your hearts.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: But here's the deal each type has a fear, right?
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, none of us are exempt from it.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_01: There is a core fear.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: I clearly state each of those and highlight those on my one sheet on purpose because it's often helps you understand and identify what type you lead with.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: But um, but I think what's really great is that you having addressed your own, can you can help everybody else out there, all the women out there who want to use their voice to help overcome those fears?
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: And so you've got some good antidotes for it, right?
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, a million.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I love the Enneagram for this exact reason because I mean, I had a bunch of light bulb moments when I started kind of reading about the different types and core fears and the thing they want most and all that kind of stuff.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_01: So it's so I think it's such a great tool.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: It is, it's not only a helpful tool for yourself and for your relationships, but when you're when you think of it from a business perspective and from the lens coaching and stuff like that, but anytime you're wanting to get a message out there, you can look and go, Oh, okay, how can I speak to others effectively?
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: And using the Enneagram is awesome.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_02: So, anyway, I find it good too for just interpersonal relationships.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I I took it and I loved it, and so then I made my whole family take it.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: Which I think is so great.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_02: It's it was really cool.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, there's always that concern, maybe they got mistyped as well.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_02: But I would say that for me, the differences between a six and a two are important, but there's a lot of similarities.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_02: So I I think that it just it really helps me gauge.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_02: So if somebody in my family is having some kind of reaction that I don't understand, like I can think about, well, wait, this person is this number and they might be feeling stress from this.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_02: It just allows me to give so much more grace to people.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: I know it's it's really helpful for that.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: I feel that with my kids, with my husband, with myself.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_01: Grace for myself.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, oh yeah.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_02: Oh a million percent.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so I want to know when did you start questioning?
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I think I know, but when you start questioning, am I actually a two?
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: Because, you know, I I think you had this person say that and this person do that.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: What kind of was making you feel, uh, maybe that's not actually how I lead?
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it's actually two different places.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um, the first one was when I originally took the test, um, I was seeing a Christian counselor who highly recommend, I mean, I highly recommend Christian counseling for everybody.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: Amen, girl.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I had been just going through a hard time, you know, my dad was dying and it just was a rough situation.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_02: So I'd been visiting with her and she brought it up, asked me to take the test, and I came back a two.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_02: And when I read the description, I was like, no, this is not me at all.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_02: But then some of the things fit.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_02: But not all.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_02: So when I talked to her about it, she was like, Well, you know, everybody is really all nine numbers.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_02: You just tend to be more dominant.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_02: And so it would make sense that not everything on this list is gonna fit you.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_02: So I just kind of was like, Oh, all right, you know, sure.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_02: Which actually was a good thing because it helped me understand too that it's an imperfect test, meaning you can't take it as gospel.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_02: It's a great tool for guiding, yeah, but it's not concrete, immovable information about yourself.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: So good.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_02: Then the next time that I questioned it was when I was talking to you, and you are, you know, really into the Enneagram stuff.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's so fun.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_02: So we were just kind of chatting about it, and I had mentioned to you that I was a two, and you kind of raised an eyebrow, like that's sort of interesting.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_02: And you you just asked me, you know, is it possible you've been mistyped?
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_02: And so you and I kind of went on this little bit of a journey, and uh I have been mistyped because now when I read the description of six, which is what we landed on, yeah, way more of that fits.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, way more.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: What was one of the telltale things about a six that you go, oh, this gives me language for what I have felt or thought my whole life.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_02: Gosh, I mean, there's so many things, but it's it's definitely the fact that sixes want to trust people and they want to be included, and they don't want to be abandoned, yeah, those kinds of things.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like those are the things I've been fighting against most of my life.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, that I I want to trust people, but uh people have broken my trust a lot.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_02: I I I have been abandoned, I have been rejected, and so I think that just kind of creates those fears that I think are fairly typical of a six.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yep, yeah.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: I think you bring up a really good point.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: I was just kind of life counseling someone over the phone the other day and who was just in a really tough spot, and we were talking about kind of relating some of this to the Aneagram to help gain some understanding and perspective to this specific situation.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: And the misnomer might be is that the childhood wound informs our type, but instead, I think what's really fascinating that I'm finding again and again as I talk to people, that their their childhood wound just takes on that bent of the lens that they were looking through as a child.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: So if if for if for you for some reason, um say if you were a nine and your need to know that your presence mattered, then that would there would be a feeling that your presence didn't matter in your whole life.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: That would be part of your life story.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: And what's interesting is that all of us going through maybe some of the same circumstances, but from a different perspective, come out with a slightly different narrative of what it felt like to go through that.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: And for you, part of your story is this need to belong, to be safe, to be included, to, you know, to not be hurt in those situations is what comes through.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I it just to me, it's still one of those things like you know, mind blowing, how is this possible?
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: Because because it's really true, because all of us, not all of us, but many of us go through similar circumstances in our childhood and early adolescence and all that sort of stuff.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: But it's it it's interesting how it shapes us and impacts us uniquely based on our dominant type that we lead with.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I think that actually part of the reason that I I feel like part of the reason that I got tripped up and mistyped was because I didn't understand that you were supposed to answer the questions from like what happened in your childhood.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_02: So the questions are confusing to somebody who feels like they've overcome one or two of the things.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think that's probably where people get messed up on that is they're just they're coming from a place of who am I today instead of what happened in the past that shaped me.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's so good.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_01: And it's why it needs to be a conversation, and it's also why I am in the process of creating now a different way to figure out your dominant type by having kind of filling out a questionnaire.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's almost like having conversation, questions with context, because a lot of the online tests, while they're really good, I love Beth McCords, Ian Cron has one, they're good.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: It can often lead to mistyping though when you don't have good context around the questions because those blanket questions, depending on what kind of day you had or what environment you're literally sitting in, or you know, what stressful situation you've just come out of, you will answer those completely different.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: And you have to have that grid of okay, what was I?
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: How did I, you know, what were my tendencies before the world told me I had or should or needed to do things a certain way?
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: Because that's really going back to our true natural instinct.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: And it's great that we've learned, right?
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: We've grown that you could identify and resonate with a lot of the two qualities because it shows growth, because those aren't even your lines of growth or stress or anything, it's just you and embracing and modeling all nine types, which is great, which is what we all want to do because ultimately Christ, God is all of them.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: And we'll never achieve all of it perfectly, but it's great to adapt some of those qualities in our life, right?
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: What have you found to be the most life-giving in this journey of discovering what type you lead with?
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_02: Well, there's actually a lot of things.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, the first one is just sort of understanding more of my triggers.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_02: Because I like I can just be having a regular day and feel like everything's normal, and then one thing will happen and suddenly my mood like hits the floor.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_02: And and I'm in the middle of this like terrible mood and not really understanding how I got there because I'm like, I'm having a perfectly fine day.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_02: And so get away from me, Satan.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_02: Right, exactly.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_02: And pe and people are getting whiplash, right, from my mood.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_02: I have whiplash from understanding, you know, from the Enneagram, like what some of my triggers might be.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_02: And understanding, you know, the the core problem, I guess you would call it with a six is fear.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_02: And so that tells me that if I'm getting triggered like that, I can stop and say to myself, okay, what in there just elicited fear in me?
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_02: Why did I just get panicky about that?
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_02: And that's been so helpful for me.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and it's been helpful for me in understanding myself and the way that I respond to my kids and the way that I respond to my husband.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, just like if I'm having a heated discussion with my husband.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: Quote unquote.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: Right, exactly.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm, you know, I'm just kind of I'm getting a little riled up, then as long as I'm still in the good presence of mind, I can say to myself, okay, wait a minute, Ann, what about this conversation is triggering me right now?
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_01: What's the root of this?
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I mean, that's not always easy to do, especially in the heat of a moment, but it happens a lot more in reflection.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_02: And I also find that the more that I understand that, the less heated discussions I have.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_02: Because I can approach it and say, listen, this is gonna trigger this fear in me if we have this conversation.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_02: So I just need you to be aware.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_02: And then my husband's like, oh, no problem.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I don't want to hurt you.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, totally.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_02: So let's work around that.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: That is so good.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: I am gonna be kind of rolling out some new material about motherhood in the Enneagram.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_01: And that's one of the main things is understanding your triggers.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: As I sit with mamas and my young mamas in particular in my living room on a weekly basis and get together with them, that's the thing is trying, you know, learning once they figure out what it is about motherhood that is really hard for their type.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: There is so much more grace to handle those hard things or to understand what you have to build in around you to be able to do this gig really, really well because it's hard, right?
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: As you know, being a mom of several.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: And so for you, I I mean, I love that you can acknowledge it even after the fact and go into a discussion with kind of being armed with that information.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: What do you do to kind of help get you back on the path to growth when you have been triggered and to get out of that spiral that sometimes happens for us?
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it's one of the hardest things on the planet to do, and that is recognize when I have to apologize.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_02: Ugh, yep.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_02: It's like admitting that you're wrong, it's admitting that you you had a reaction instead of a response.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_02: And and you know, I it one of my triggers, and I'm not even entirely sure why this is, but when somebody accuses me of being really wrong, interesting.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_02: I get I get real intense about that.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that probably comes from just feeling like I didn't have a voice in my childhood, you know, that people didn't listen to me, they didn't, you know, think that anything I had to say was valid.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_02: So when people come at me with this idea of you're wrong, you know, I I feel like on some level I still have to prove myself.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_02: And so sometimes I will defend myself, even if I am wrong, just because my emotion is in, you know, fight or flight.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_02: So I have had to really come to this understanding of recognizing when I am wrong and when I was reacting poorly, and then sucking it up and going to say you're sorry.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's so hard for me.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_01: It is so hard.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I think it's hard for everybody because I don't think that's a skill that we're taught.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_02: I think there ought to be a class in elementary school how to apologize and how to apologize, yes.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we're doing it often in my house, let me tell you.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, I just I made this decision, you know, I have this fear that if I admit that I'm wrong, somebody will reject me or walk away.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_02: And apologizing is admitting you're wrong.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_02: And so I finally just decided that in order to overcome that, I want to just become the best darn apologizer that there is.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, that's and awesome.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_02: And I just kind of like face that a little bit head on, which is not always typical for me.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_02: But it's understanding that this is kind of the root of that problem that is helping me face it.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_02: If that makes any kind of sense.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: Totally makes sense.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I was thinking of a couple things as you were talking because you brought up the feelings aspect, and I think it's really good to highlight, and maybe one of the reasons sometimes the two and the six get confused with one another or mistyped is because the two is in the heart triad, and the six is in the cerebral or mind triad.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: But um, but both are very emotional, and there's a lot of emotions involved for the six.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: And so the six can get confused.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: Well, um, do I am I leading with my thought process or my emotional process?
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: But the the heart triad isn't the same necessarily as having emotion, it's um it's just showing how you tend to lead in decision making.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: So, so for you, you talk about a lot of emotions, but would you say it it's true as we distinguish between those types that you've probably thought through your the decision that you've arrived to quite a bit, and you've maybe even worked, yeah, you're nodding your head.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: Work down to nodding my head, yeah.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you've worked down even to the worst case scenario, and I think for a six, there's probably nothing worse than hitting that worst case scenario, which is you're wrong.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah, for sure.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_02: And I I mean, I think as somebody who uh tends to overanalyze situations, sure, and being more of a headspace than a heart space, I find myself working to justify my emotions.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm trying to assign like an intellectual reason to my emotional response.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, yeah, which that makes sense.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_02: Which I get why I would do that, because I'm trying to prove that I'm right, but it's also giving my feelings way more control than they should be allowed to have.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_02: Because feelings are liars.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, the emotions are created in us so that we can have a response to a situation and make a quick decision, not design our entire lives around how we're feeling.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_02: Not rule the down.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that's where a six could really get tripped up is using trying to use intellect to justify emotion rather than recognizing that emotion is nothing but a trigger.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's interesting.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_02: And you need to use your intellect to figure out why you got triggered, not why your emotional.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's so interesting.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: Because how you frame that, that makes so much thing, you know, from a person who is a thinker that you would overanalyze even the response emotionally that you would have and try to frame that in a certain way instead of yeah, instead of just going, oh, okay, this is how it's because I as a heart-centered person, I would almost view it opposite.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: But in yeah, in your world and how you are processing, that makes so much sense, especially when you're trying to get yourself out of the downward spiral, which is really important, is to to be able to call it like it is and go, it's this isn't this is a feeling, this is an emotion, this isn't truth.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: How can I get back to what I know to be true?
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: Which is well important.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_02: And on the other extreme though, is I have found myself in many cases discounting my emotions.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_02: And not allowing myself to feel hurt when I have been hurt.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_02: I, you know, I over justify that and I'm like, well, I'm just being weak, or I should have seen that coming.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: Or, you know, whatever.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_02: I like, and then I I don't give myself enough space to feel that hurt and to process it, which is really bad because you tend to stuff those down.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_02: But there's no such thing as stuffing emotions because it will ooze out of you somewhere else.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: And again, that's when the family is like, what just hit the fan here?
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_02: That's where whiplash happens.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_02: You know.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_02: And but the Enneagram has been such a great tool for me for that because when I do have that, you know, 180 in my mood, I'm like, okay, I've been triggered by something.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_02: And then, you know, it it can be tricky to go back into your, you know, mental files and find why you get triggered like that.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_02: And so that's why it's so important to talk to a counselor or even somebody like you who loves the Enneagram and really understands sort of the intricacies, intricacies of it and can say to somebody, Well, did you have maybe this kind of experience that would have elicited this response?
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_02: You know, sometimes I think it's so good for us to just have someone else's perspective.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, for sure.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_02: To help us understand ourselves.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, absolutely.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: And someone who doesn't necessarily have emotional equity with us.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_02: It has to be.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_02: You can't have emotional equity with the person, otherwise, you know, it's somebody trying to manipulate you.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, exactly.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_02: If you're paying a counselor or you're paying somebody like you know, you to do an Enneagram counseling session, then you are taking an independent, unbiased look.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_02: You can really trust that information more.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_01: And you can just be asked the right question instead of emotional or ones that are too close to the situation.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_01: You need the objective backing up, even if it's a hundred feet, to go, okay, what's really going on here?
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_02: And the what ifs and challenging you what you one of the things, yeah, exactly.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_02: One of the things that I loved about you and I kind of diving into this was I mistyped question is that you would ask me questions and I could I could respond to you, well, it depends.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_02: Because if I'm in this situation, I react this way, but if I'm in this situation, I react this way.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_02: And so I was able to like say to you, this question is not entirely black or white to me.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_02: And you, with your knowledge, were able to figure out the common thread there.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_02: That's what I think people can potentially get tripped up on if they're just taking a test, like say online.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_02: Because when they're looking at that question and they've got the it depends in their mind, they have to pick one way or the other.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_02: And that could lead to mistyping.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_02: So I have just become such a huge proponent of take the test, use it as a tool.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_02: But then if you're really interested in it and you really are wanting to know more and to get to a healthy mental place, invest the time to speak with an Enneagram expert like you.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_02: Or, you know, yeah, or or like a counselor that knows the Enneagram.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_02: You know, so that you can take some of that gray area out and feel a lot more confident in your typing, which is just gonna help you grow that much faster.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what I'm always again, Enneagram three here, efficiency, how fast can we grow?
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_01: Let's cut achieving, yeah.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: Let's cut out some of that, you know, process of the unknown and the gray area and all of that.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_01: Let's cut to the point here.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like the Aneagram gives that nice little shortcut to spiritual growth and personal health and all of those insights that we really, we really do want.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_01: And it's worth, it's for sure worth investing.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_01: If you want to use it in your life, figure it out the right, you know, take time to figure it out.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_01: And for me, I think for you know, getting the questions answered in the way that you did, very honestly, I could not only find the thread, but I could distinguish what was learned and what was instinct.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_01: And just having someone against it with you who has some of that understanding and who can differentiate what the answers that are coming out can can really help a person dial in.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_01: And then it just led me to be able to ask better questions and get more pointed and where you were more confident of like, oh yeah, I think that is actually where I land.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm kind of curious to know because we didn't talk about this, but have you figured out if you are more phobic or counterphobic?
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: Because there are very two different types of sixes out there.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_02: Give me an example of um, and I and I read this in my type description, but give me an example of phobic or counterphobic.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, counterphobic.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: Well, uh as a summary, I would say, even though sixes get this rap of being filled with anxiety and fear, they on the flip side are some of the most courageous people out there because they have to face their fears on a regular basis for a lot of them just to get through the day.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_02: And that's counterphobic.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: And well, and and what I would say, and that would be in general for the sixes, and for a six might be when they your phobic six might wake up in the morning and go be kind of fearful about what the day holds for them.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas a counterphobic six might look, yeah, as they like wake up in the day, kind of put their feet to the ground, what am I going to do to get through these fears?
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how am I going to overcome?
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_01: And more, more with a little bit more of a forward thinking for the counterphobic and action-oriented, whereas the phobic six might be stuck in their head a little bit more, tending to think of worst-case scenarios where a counterphobic is going to be thinking, how are they going to overcome?
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I would say hands down counterphobic.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I see that in you too a lot.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, as you were talking about that and giving those examples, like just incident after incident in my life has come to my mind.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_02: Like, um, apparently, my aunt keeps telling me that she loved this about me.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_02: I don't even really remember it, but I tried out for a play in high school, and you had to like audition for each part, and I kept getting cut and cut and cut and cut, and I finally got a role as an extra.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, okay, and I did it, you know.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_02: And she was like, I mean, I don't know people that would keep going.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, I tried out for the cheerleading team one year and made the team, but there was a lot of drama on the team, and um I ended up not making the team the next year, but I was determined that they weren't gonna get me down.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_02: So the following year I tried out again and I made the team again.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so I I tend to sort of push through those fears, and I I've always considered it to be a survival thing.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_02: Interesting, you know, yeah, like not gonna let them get me down.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, but and that's not to say that I don't hurt, you know, that isn't pushing through the fears isn't hard.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_02: And in fact, sometimes I think pushing through the fears creates more anxiety.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_02: You're pushing yourself.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yep, yep.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_02: And the fear.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_02: And it's, you know, I don't know.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_02: I think I I tend to be sort of a do or die person.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, things are either phenomenal or they're disaster.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: I know, maybe it's the life of a creative though.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_04: It might be.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: I'll blame that.
• 29:42
  unknown: Yeah.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's so good.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_01: I have I have seen you as a counterphobic, and I would just give this a description and you know, a very broad description of it.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_01: Is there the counterphobic can even identify with some of the eight type eight qualities because they are a little bit more verbose and forward-thinking and go-getters um compared to maybe the phobic sex, who's going to be more hesitant and withdrawn, and some of those elements.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's just kind of one of those really interesting things.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_01: Again, we we talk about that there being nine types when there's actually, you know, like 27 plus because of subtypes and all the again, the counter to each, you know, three of those other types, and you know, all of these things where we get into it, which is really freeing when you think about it.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: It can seem overwhelming, but freeing in the end when we go, okay, just because my friend is a six doesn't mean I can't be or could be, um, because I share some of those qualities.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: It goes, you know, each type can look various shades of that type.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: And oh yeah, there's so much freedom of that, of like, oh, I don't have to exactly be like the stereotypical type.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_01: I can be a little unique in my own version of it.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and even as you're saying that, I'm having this light bulb moment because I've always sort of considered myself to be a fighter.
• 31:06
  unknown: Yes.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_02: And I've always considered that I constantly have to fight in my life to get what I want.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_02: And you describing that as a counterphobic six, like I'm fighting against the fear.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_02: Like this is a big light bulb moment for me, like right in this second, because I'm thinking, oh, that makes so much sense.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_02: That this is how I'm wired.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, I am wired to fight through the fear, which honestly, I feel like is it's making me feel just a little bit badass and a little bit like I'm gonna just like keep on going, man.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, you should.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, but I do also identify with that kind of like imagery, like fighters, warriors, overcomers, yeah, you know.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yep, totally like the underdog becomes the hero.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I I I live for that stuff, and that is really interesting to me understanding that counterphobic piece.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and it was fascinating because it goes ties directly into the other reason why we wanted I wanted to talk to you today was you help other women face their fears.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I think, I mean, come on, hello.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_01: No wonder you're doing what you're doing and why you're drawn to this ministry of helping women figure out their message and are to you know, like go for it in their vision.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, yeah, because you're you're an expert at it.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_01: You've been doing it for your whole life, you just didn't know you were doing it.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_02: That's true, that's true.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's funny.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_02: One of my triggers is when a woman will, I'll be talking to her and she will be really hard on herself or down on herself.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, interesting.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, oh no, sister.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_02: You do not no, no, no, not today, not on my watch, because listen, you are amazing, and I will just like lay into her.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_02: I'll be like screaming at her about how awesome she is.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_02: It's very interesting.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_02: But I but it is it makes me so angry when when women believe they are less than in any way.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_01: So I thought it would be perfect because those who are listening, they're covering all nine types.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I think for some of you who are sixes or were wondering, I hope this brought a ton of clarity.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_01: I think what you can bring to the table and what you do, because you also, as a coach, in particular, you know, a business coach, a communicator coach, um, you you do that for women.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_01: You hear, I mean, because we all have it, we all are bemoaning something about inadequacies or our fears or too much this or not enough that, and you have an answer for that.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_01: So I thought it would be really fun.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_01: We'll go through all nine types and we're gonna switch it up a little bit.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna start with the sixes today.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_01: You ready?
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_02: I'll give it my best shot.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_01: You're gonna be great.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_01: I have no doubt.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_01: The core fear for a six is being without support or guidance.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_02: So I would say that for somebody who is feeling like they're maybe don't have enough support or guidance, they need to learn to trust themselves.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_02: And that has been a really big exercise for me.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_02: And what I what I have done mentally that has really helped me is when I am working on giving a message or putting a message out there, I always think about that story in the Bible where the shepherd will leave 99 sheep to go find one.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_02: And I just tell myself that whether I ever hear from that person or not, that message on my heart has come from somewhere else and it is meant for at least one lost sheep.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_02: And so I try to put that trust and the support in myself and in God, and that sounds super religious.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but it's it really works for me to be thinking about it as it is important for me to put my message out there, even if I don't feel like I've got guidance, or even if I don't feel like I'm supported, because the way that I'm gonna say it, the experience that I've had is gonna really be a gift to at least one lost sheep.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's so good.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_01: That's motivating.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_01: All right, for a type seven, they fear being trapped in pain or limited or bored.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I think there's some good thoughts there.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure you have.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_02: Well, okay, so being trapped in your pain, honestly, I think that getting it from the inside of you to the outside of you is one of the best ways that you can experience freedom.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_02: And as far as being limited, you are only limited by yourself or by how you respond to other people's opinions.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_02: And so I would say take somebody else's opinion and decide whether or not it's a valuable thing.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_02: So, like Brene Brown says, the only opinions that matter to her are the people that are in the arena with her doing the thing with her.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_02: So if you're feeling limited and stuck because you're worried about what other people might think, you have to give yourself permission to dismiss any opinions that are from people who are not doing the exact same thing you're trying to do.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_02: So right.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_02: And then when you can release that, you start to feel more unlimited, which will actually prevent you from feeling bored.
• 36:27
  unknown: Yeah.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_01: So good.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well done.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_01: Amen to that.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, for a type eight, their core fear is to be harmed, controlled, or violated.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_01: Those are heavy.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_01: Some of those are pretty deep.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_02: Those are really heavy.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_02: And as far as being controlled or violated, you know, I think that probably comes from some experience in their life that made them feel like they were being controlled or violated.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_02: So they're always on guard for that possibility in their lives.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, totally.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_02: And I think also, like I I know somebody right now that I love so much who is shutting down right now because you know, he's just feeling like things are not really going his way, and he's feeling like his dreams are out of his control and that he's feeling violated.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_02: And I would just say the most important thing that you can do is press on.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_02: And really, this should be a skill that an eight can handle because it it is the moving forward in spite of the fear and not allowing yourself to be controlled.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_02: Because eights, eights are great at that.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_02: Eights are great at pushing back on anybody trying to control them.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_02: The only thing that I would say is maybe you need to open your mind to the possibility that someone you might think is trying to control you is actually just loving you and hitting a trigger point.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, amen.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_02: Preach it.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_02: But you're not really trying to, they're not trying to control you, they're not trying to hurt you.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_02: You know.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_02: So push through your fear and just try to believe the best about the people that are around you that you love.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_02: That's good.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, for type nine, their core fear is loss, fragmentation, or separation.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you know, here's the thing: a nine needs to be reassured often that they are wanted, that they are valued.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_02: And so that means it's really hard for a nine to believe that they are wanted and valued.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_02: And my best advice for that is to first of all, don't be afraid to tell people that.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, at least a handful of people.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um, people that you really trust.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_02: And and don't be afraid to say to those people, I'm just feeling this, I'm feeling triggered that like that my presence doesn't matter.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_02: Let people reassure you.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_02: Before don't go into the spiral of your own mind.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_02: But then also get into some scripture.
• 39:06
  unknown: Yeah.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_02: Because like Jeremiah 1:5, I knew you before I formed you in the womb.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_02: Like God had a plan for you before you were born.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_02: And the scripture passage in Ephesians, I'm terrible with addresses, but you are God's masterpiece.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_02: And in Hebrews, run the race set before you.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_02: Like your presence matters because God has decided that it matters.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_02: And if we can begin to trust that, if nines can begin to trust that, and they can allow themselves to be a little vulnerable with a few people that they trust, I think that they will find themselves overcoming that fear a little bit easier than they even thought they could.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_01: And to realize that they have something really valuable to bring to the table that others need to be able to do that.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_01: That, you know, again, whether it's for the one or for the hundred, you have something to offer and you're created with a unique message that's really important, really valuable for others.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_02: Zero people are an accident.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yep, yep.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_01: Amen.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_01: Preach.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_01: We're having a little church up here today.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_01: I know your computer's on your big Bible, so I wasn't even planning to get all churchyard.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_01: But here we are.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I love it.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so a type one, their core fear is corruptness and balance or being bad.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know, kind of the bad girl or bad boy.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_02: Well, honestly, um, I I love a one very deeply.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_01: And yes, you do.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um she tends to be very black and white.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_02: And so I would say for a one, experiment with getting comfortable in the gray areas.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's good.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_02: And try to change your thinking a little bit.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_02: Instead of something as being, you know, potentially bad or potentially difficult.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_02: Try to think of it as an adventure.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_02: Try to think of it as an experiment.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_02: You know, how let's just see what happens.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's good.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_02: Because I think, you know, I think ones have the most tension in their shoulders.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_01: From all the carrying around all the shoulds in life.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_01: I should be doing this, I should be doing that.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_02: You know, one of my favorite sayings is I hate to get should on.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_02: Like, don't shoot on me.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so I just I just would really recommend that you know ones and very intentionally drop their shoulders, yeah, take a breath, and say, I'm okay in the gray area.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's good.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_01: A missing piece for them, because in their lines of stress and growth, it goes both ways to four and seven.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_01: And for them, the missing piece is a is kind of uh adopting some of the philosophy of the seven of like, what do I've got to lose?
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_01: I need to try some different things and have some fun in the process.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_01: So that one could find a ton of freedom and going.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't have to be perfect before I start.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_01: I just gotta try it.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_02: Donald Miller uh told this story once I heard at a conference where he said that if you are really fearful of something bad happening in order to move past it, go let that bad thing happen.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_02: And so he said, go stand out in front of a Walmart and ask the next 10 people that come out to marry you.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_02: They're all gonna say no, but you are gonna be flexing this muscle of that disaster didn't hurt you.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_01: Be okay to fail.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_01: Right, exactly.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_04: It's okay to fail.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_01: For a type two, their core fear is being unloved and unwanted.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_02: Man, I get this one.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_02: This one's a hard one because I I really feel like I identify with a lot of what's going on in a two.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like there's a lot of my history that I can point to that is evidence of that feeling unloved and unwanted thing.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_02: And so honestly, I think this one's a really tricky one to overcome.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_02: The best thing that I can do that has helped me is to really believe the best about other people.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_02: And one of the ways that I have done that is I try to imagine whatever I'm feeling, the situation that I'm going through happening to like one of my kids.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_02: What would I say to my kid in that instance?
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_02: Because I don't want my kid to feel like that, right?
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_00: Right, totally.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_00: You're gonna do everything.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_02: So then I'm like, what would I say to her?
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_02: How would I allow her to have this feeling?
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_02: And if the answer is no, I'm you know, I come up with my little piece of advice and then I have to apply it to myself.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's good.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_02: And it's more than anything, I think that the fear of being unloved or unwanted boils back down to I don't trust myself.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_02: I don't trust that I'm valuable.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_02: I don't trust that people would want to love me.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm afraid they will abandon me.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_02: And it's just an exercise in learning to be comfortable in your own skin, trusting yourself, forgiving yourself when you're wrong.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_02: And just believing the best about other people.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you're you're still gonna get hurt.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_02: Like that's gonna happen.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_02: It's the human nature.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_02: But if you were to like put it on a percentage scale, the people that you can rely on that do want you and that do love you, that percentage is way higher than the ones who are gonna hurt you.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_02: So you got to put more weight on that.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I even think the possibility of how many people you can help in the process of overcoming that fear of not being received well and being rejected, it's worth it in the end.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_01: And that outweighs, like you said, the positive of how much you could help outweighs the negative any day.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_02: Always.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_02: But I think that especially for twos, you have to get intentional about thinking that way.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_02: You you know, and I I mean, I almost recommend like putting an index card or something, like believe the best on your bathroom mirror, you know, so that you're looking at it and you're thinking about it, so that you can begin to train yourself to think that way.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_02: Because it really does get better if you can believe the best about yourself and others.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's good.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, now you're speaking to me here.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_01: Type three, our core fear is being worthless and a failure.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh, we feel fear of failure so much.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, it's kind of inevitable, it's part of the job.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it is part of the job.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I've been saying this actually a lot lately.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_02: It's been like a theme in my life when I'm like helping to coach other people.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_02: Literally, the only true failure is not trying anymore.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_02: It's quitting.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_02: And so as long as you're continuing to try, even if it doesn't work out the way you thought it would, you're not failing.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I mean, I can point to these examples of like Edison, you know, discovered a thousand ways how not to make a light bulb before he found the one that worked.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_02: Like, and people, there were people that assigned that as failure.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_02: And here's what I'm gonna say is the bottom line failure is nothing but an opinion.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_02: It is not concrete, it is not a characteristic, it is not a label, it's it is an opinion.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_02: And remember, you know, we were talking a little bit earlier about Brene Brown.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_02: The opinions don't count unless they're coming from somebody else that's in the arena with you.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_02: So if you if you're feeling like a failure in some way, you have to ask yourself, well, where is that feeling coming from?
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_02: Did somebody say something negative to me?
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_02: If they did, is that person trying to do what I'm doing?
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_02: Do they really understand what it's like every day to run a ministry and raise kids and host a Bible study in my home every week?
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_02: Did that are they in that place that their opinion has value?
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_02: The answer is probably no.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_02: And so you can safely say that is that person's opinion.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_02: I wish I could change it, but I'm not even gonna worry about it today.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because I got other things to do.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, that's and then as far as feeling worthless goes, again, this is get into some scripture, yeah, truly.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because the the Bible is a love letter to humans from God.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_02: It is, it's a it is the story of how God has fought for us.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because above all, He believes we are valuable.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, whether you need to like write that on your wrist and look at it every day or you know, that's what I need to do.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_02: Tell your tell your phone, like set an audible reminder, like remind me every day that I'm freaking fantastic.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_02: And let me tell you, I have done that.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_02: That's great.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_01: That's great.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_02: I had to force myself to let it stay there until it got annoying.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_02: But I finally would start to laugh, right?
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_02: Like I would get that message like at 7 a.m.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_02: every morning and I would start to laugh.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_02: I'd be like, okay, I'm fantastic.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_02: That's all right.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_01: That's all right.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_02: You have to be intentional about how you think about yourself and what you're doing.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yep.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_01: And these are only lies from the pit of hell.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_01: These are not truth, even if it's how you feel.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and I'll tell you one other thing too about that idea of failure is I have seen more often than not that failure leads to learning and helping.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_02: So, like your failure, your opinion of it, might actually be the reason somebody else has the courage to try it too.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um, or it might be a lesson that you've learned that you can now share with people that will help them.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, failure is I I I don't know where we got this idea that failure as an opinion is a bad thing.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_02: It's just a lesson.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_02: It's just education.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_02: That's all it is.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna be writing some notes down after this.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_01: Because this is good.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_01: I never even framed it before as an opinion.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like it is.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_02: Of course, yes, let me tell you, failure is just an opinion, and comparison only has one job in life, and that is to lie to you.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_01: Ooh, which that is perfect because type four, this idea of comparison, envy is a big deal.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_01: The type four, but their core fear is having no identity or significance.
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_01: And oh, in this creative space, it can get noisy, it can feel crowded.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_01: A four is gonna need some help.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so I wanna um, I'm actually gonna refer to another sort of like personality test, which is the strength finders.
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yes.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_02: And when you take that, I think it's one out of 35 numbers, and they calculated the statistics of you having the same top five numbers as people is like one in seven million.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, no kidding.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_02: The exact same five.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_02: For you to have the exact same five in the exact same order is like a number that can't be calculated.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_00: Whoa.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_02: Just statistically speaking, so um, I mean, it's really, really fascinating how that all works out.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_02: But what that tells me is that there are literally no two people on earth that are the same, not even identical twins.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_02: My mom was an identical twin, and her and her sister were nothing alike.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_02: Interesting.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_02: And so even if you're an identical twin, you don't have an excuse because you are made uniquely, yeah.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_02: Which means because of the way you think, because of that part of you that is unique, even if you're saying something somebody else has said before, you're gonna say it in a different way.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_02: And one thing that I have learned in my life is people can tell me something multiple times and I won't get it, but then I'll hear somebody say it in a slightly different way and suddenly it clicks for me.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, isn't that true?
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_02: Suddenly I'm like, oh, oh yeah, oh my god, it's not yes, yeah.
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_02: It a lot of times it just takes somebody saying it in a different way for it to click in my brain.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_02: So for a four, you gotta understand you're unique, and that's a fact.
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that is truth, right?
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_02: Because of that uniqueness, you have the ability to do, say, create something that is different from other people, even if it's similar.
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and that no one else could do it like you.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_02: And so you have to remember that say you want to create something and you're not doing it because you think, oh, it's been done before, right?
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_02: But there's you just have to imagine there are 10 people out there in the world that are waiting for the click, they're waiting for the aha.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_02: And if you don't do it, they won't get it.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_02: And so when you stop yourself because you don't think you're unique enough, you're actually robbing other people of the gift of learning, of growth, of you.
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_02: You know, nobody is an accident, zero people are an accident.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_02: You have to trust you are unique enough.
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_02: I think probably the biggest thing a four needs to understand is you can have widespread success for sure, but it's also so important how you influence in the small moments.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, oh yeah, that's spot on, right?
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's those, it's those little things, being faithful in the small and trust God.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_02: And being okay with that, because I think you know, fours want to be unique and they want to be known as unique.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think a lot of times a four wants recognition for that.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_02: To be seen.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_02: And so, right.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_02: I think one of the struggles is understanding that the small miracles that you're experiencing are enough for that day.
• 53:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, and to and allow yourself, give yourself permission to say, I did a good job.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_01: That's right, to celebrate that.
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_02: Let that let that be a celebration.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_02: It will feed you.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's good.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_01: Spot on.
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_01: Ooh, well, we're at our last.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_01: This is kind of fun to go at it a different way.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_01: For a type five, their fear, and we just talked to our type five last week.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, they fear being helpless, incapable, or incompetent.
• 53:55
  SPEAKER_01: Again, those are some deep ones, right?
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_01: That would handicap me too.
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and it is, you know, I just I can't help but wonder like what happened in the childhood that made you feel helpless, incapable, or incompetent.
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_02: And I think probably one of the things that a five struggles with is not allowing themselves to acknowledge their own achievements.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_02: So, like, again, I love a five very, very much.
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_02: And um this person was given so much help in their childhood that they began to believe they couldn't do something without help.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_00: So fascinating.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_02: But I but you know, but from the outside looking in, I look at this person and I think, I mean, first of all, you got out of bed, you got dressed, you paid your bills, you drove your car, you learned to drive a car, you graduated from college, like you did all those things on your own.
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_02: You might have had help, but somebody else didn't achieve those things for you.
• 54:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yep, you did them.
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_02: You did them.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it's so important that fives give themselves credit for those things and not punish themselves because they felt like they needed help.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_02: That's a really good perspective.
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, help builds community.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_02: Help builds the me too thing.
• 55:21
  SPEAKER_02: I thought I was the only one.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_02: It builds friendship.
• 55:24
  SPEAKER_02: It's it gives somebody else the opportunity to share their gifts with you, but it doesn't mean you're incapable or worthless.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 55:33
  SPEAKER_01: Or have to independently gather the knowledge themselves.
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that five struggle for that, right?
• 55:40
  SPEAKER_02: They they feel like they have to prove themselves over and over again.
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yep, yep.
• 55:45
  SPEAKER_02: And and I think for the most part, they're trying to prove themselves to themselves.
• 55:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think you're right.
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_02: They're trying to get out of that tornado of I'm worthless, I can't do this, you know.
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_01: To satisfy their need for knowledge and information and and knowing it kind of in the way a one would maybe want it right, they too want to know the correct way or have all the information before they go into something.
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_02: Well, sure, because they want to know that they can achieve something on their own.
• 56:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 56:17
  SPEAKER_02: And so for a five, I would just say, you know, a couple things.
• 56:21
  SPEAKER_02: First of all, you got to start to give yourself grace.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_02: You have to forgive yourself when you didn't do it on your own or you think you did it wrong.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_02: Because again, like we just talked about with the four, like failure or non-failure, because I don't believe that there is any such thing as true failure, it's nothing but education.
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, for a five, gathering knowledge is their gig.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_02: So if you start to look at that as gathering knowledge, that's great.
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_02: Forgive yourself, though, when you feel like you're not hitting the mark.
• 56:53
  SPEAKER_02: Learn to have grace for yourself.
• 56:55
  SPEAKER_02: But then also try thinking about getting help from someone else as connecting with people.
• 57:02
  SPEAKER_02: And where somebody might help you, you can also help someone else.
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, would you want somebody to reject your help because they were stubborn about it?
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 57:11
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, no.
• 57:12
  SPEAKER_02: So we have to stop thinking of getting help as an indication or a sign that we are weak or less than.
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_02: Because it's not true.
• 57:23
  SPEAKER_01: That's so good.
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_01: Man, I think you have covered all of these so beautifully.
• 57:28
  SPEAKER_01: It just I I love how we get to shine a light on your expertise in your field and your gifting.
• 57:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I love how it ties into how you're hardwired for life in general.
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_01: It is so cool.
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_01: It is really, really cool.
• 57:43
  SPEAKER_01: What is what is one more thing that maybe we didn't talk about yet, or anything else that you'd like to share when it comes to mistyping, or you discovering yourself as a that you lead with the type six that has been really beneficial and that you would love to share with others to get them thinking about, you know, being confident of what type they lead with in life?
• 58:04
  SPEAKER_02: Well, actually, I want to say two things.
• 58:06
  SPEAKER_02: So the one thing that I the thing that I love the most about the Enneagram is that it gives you a look at what you look like when you're very healthy, when you're average, and when you're unhealthy.
• 58:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 58:20
  SPEAKER_02: And knowing those things has been key for me when I'm feeling triggered or feeling like things aren't going my way.
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_02: Like I was just kind of reading through it um this morning just to make sure that I knew what I was talking about before we got before we talked today.
• 58:38
  SPEAKER_02: And I was reading through that healthy, average, unhealthy, and I'm like, I'm in a situation in my life today where I would say that I'm like in an in an average state.
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_02: Interesting.
• 58:49
  SPEAKER_02: But what's so cool about that is knowing that I'm an average, I can shoot for healthy.
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, right.
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_02: Like I can do that self-reflection and be like, okay, why do I feel like I'm in an average state?
• 59:00
  SPEAKER_02: What am I, where is my thinking off that I can tweak it just a little bit?
• 59:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 59:05
  SPEAKER_01: And to celebrate you're not at the unhealthy.
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly.
• 59:10
  SPEAKER_02: And and it's a lot of like, thank God I'm not an unhealthy.
• 59:13
  SPEAKER_02: Those people are great.
• 59:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 59:15
  SPEAKER_02: But um, but it it just it gives me a tool to get out of my spin zone.
• 59:21
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 59:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 59:22
  SPEAKER_02: It it helps me stop a an impending spiral, but it also gives me a goal.
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_02: It gives me, okay, this is more what healthy looks like, and that's where I want to be.
• 59:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 59:33
  SPEAKER_02: So it's not just your average.
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_02: Go have fun with that.
• 59:38
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 59:39
  SPEAKER_02: You're in an average state, but these are some of the markers that it of what it looks like to get to a healthy state.
• 59:44
  SPEAKER_02: So I've got like a roadmap, and I found that very helpful.
• 59:46
  SPEAKER_02: It is really, really helpful.
• 59:48
  SPEAKER_02: So I mean, I love the Enneagram for that.
• 59:51
  SPEAKER_02: But the one thing I wanted to mention to you that I keep pondering um that I actually don't like about the Enneagram.
• 59:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and it might just be my fear-based person as a six, is that almost every single one of the types, or all of the types, come from some form of damage in your childhood.
• 1:00:10
  SPEAKER_02: They come from something that went wrong.
• 1:00:13
  SPEAKER_02: As a mom, knowing that my children are becoming a type really looks like failure, which is an opinion.
• 1:00:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:00:24
  SPEAKER_02: But also a heavy burden for a mom.
• 1:00:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it is a heavy burden.
• 1:00:28
  SPEAKER_02: Like I don't like looking at my kids and thinking, oh my gosh, they're this type because I didn't give them this.
• 1:00:36
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think that really what I'm trying to say is this is a caution, right?
• 1:00:42
  SPEAKER_02: For especially for moms who are really investing some time in the Enneagram.
• 1:00:47
  SPEAKER_02: You cannot let yourself think like that.
• 1:00:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I agree.
• 1:00:50
  SPEAKER_02: Because there are no perfect people, there are no perfect parents.
• 1:00:52
  SPEAKER_02: And even though you wish you could do it differently for your kids, there's no escaping that they will become some form, right?
• 1:01:00
  SPEAKER_02: Some number on this Enneagram scale.
• 1:01:02
  SPEAKER_02: And so the thing that has been um really good for me in just dealing with that, and my kids are older, I've got, you know, two adults and one almost adult, is sitting down and talking to them.
• 1:01:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I agree.
• 1:01:16
  SPEAKER_02: And saying, you have an Enneagram number that's really fear-based, and it's, you know, and it says it's because you didn't get this or this, this thing.
• 1:01:27
  SPEAKER_02: And I want you to know that was never my goal.
• 1:01:29
  SPEAKER_02: And it hurts my heart to think that you ever had to believe anything like that.
• 1:01:33
  SPEAKER_02: And so I, you know, if I did anything to help to make you feel like that, then I want to apologize.
• 1:01:38
  SPEAKER_02: But I also just want to open the door for conversation.
• 1:01:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:01:41
  SPEAKER_02: And that has actually been such a beautiful thing for me with one of my kiddos, just the ability to say to her, it hurts me that this is something that you felt like you experienced.
• 1:01:55
  SPEAKER_02: So I I want to just put that out there.
• 1:01:58
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want to stew on it, I don't want to marinate in it.
• 1:02:00
  SPEAKER_02: I want to talk to you about it, and I want to help you overcome any of those feelings as a mom.
• 1:02:08
  SPEAKER_02: Now I can't fix it for her.
• 1:02:10
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 1:02:11
  SPEAKER_01: No, and but and even I would I would say you how you operated as a parent didn't um it didn't tell them what number, it informed their experience as that number growing up.
• 1:02:27
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think what we can do in our kids who are still forming and who, and at least I've taken this approach with my kiddos and as again in talk in conversation with the mamas in my life on a regular basis, is that now you can understand why they are triggered themselves when you do this behavior because for them it looks like you know, whatever.
• 1:02:51
  SPEAKER_01: So, say if I have a type 8, I may or may not have I may or may not have one in my life.
• 1:02:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, um, but it's um it's really interesting to see how they perceive some of the sibling dynamics in our home and how I choose to handle it right now because we have we don't have um clear-cut situations, we have um some real uh how do I want to put it?
• 1:03:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um gray areas, yeah, mental development issues that are out of our control, out of my control.
• 1:03:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so for me, it's really I've I've really been challenged to change my parenting style and my assumptions of how things should look.
• 1:03:34
  SPEAKER_01: And if this child was raised a certain way and knew only knew this form of discipline, for them, it seems like betrayal and so unjust for how I would choose to parent and discipline or train um my maybe my other child.
• 1:03:51
  SPEAKER_01: And so, because of the enneagram giving me this understanding that if indeed they are they lead as a type 8 what their lens are, uh then I can address this one-on-one with them and go, I know that this might feel, and I want you to know, let's talk about it if you are feeling this way or if you're responding because you're feeling this way, because that's why I was seeing it happening was like it was triggering this crazy response, and I'm just like, you know, where I'm just like, you know, putting out fires everywhere or whack whack-a-mole kind of game.
• 1:04:24
  SPEAKER_01: And this kind of helped us dial back and again, you know, may or may not have happened, um, dial back have a conversation about it and bring about understanding.
• 1:04:33
  SPEAKER_01: And there's only so much understanding at this stage that they can have, but it it gave me an opportunity to have a conversation in a way that I never otherwise would have had if it weren't for the Anneagram.
• 1:04:44
  SPEAKER_02: And to I wish I would have had it when my kids were little.
• 1:04:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right.
• 1:04:47
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it really, it really is, you know, I have to be careful all the time, you know, to not type them and let them figure it out and have open-ended questions and conversation about it where it's them exploring it genuinely uh from their unique perspective.
• 1:05:01
  SPEAKER_01: But um, but I think it can be, and it and like you said, having grown children have the conversation.
• 1:05:06
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, I'm really sorry if you interpreted some of these situations, but I would love to talk about it and have opportunity and to know, yes, all my children will need to go to counseling someday because I am you know perfectly imperfect, and I will I will do something that hurts them unintentionally, unknowingly.
• 1:05:24
  SPEAKER_01: And right, and I I feel like one of the best things I can do is demonstrate the power of good counsel and and therapy and coaching and all those different things that then will give them the opportunity to talk honestly to someone about the things that I maybe didn't do right because I just didn't know.
• 1:05:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think the bottom line with the Enneagram is to use it as a tool, yeah, to you know, help you just learn about yourself and others, and then above all, just load yourself with grace, heaps of it.
• 1:05:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_02: Because no one's perfect.
• 1:06:01
  SPEAKER_02: No one's gonna get it right all the time.
• 1:06:03
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I've I've loved the Enneagram for a couple of years now.
• 1:06:07
  SPEAKER_02: And I looked at this thing this morning.
• 1:06:10
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, ooh, I'm only at an average right now.
• 1:06:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um and so I have to have grace for myself.
• 1:06:17
  SPEAKER_02: But I would say, you know, just to kind of like wrap up my thoughts on it, is it it occurs to me when I was looking at that, I haven't looked at my, you know, Ennegram stuff in a little while.
• 1:06:28
  SPEAKER_02: So I need to boss my phone around again.
• 1:06:30
  SPEAKER_02: I need to like set a reminder, like every, you know, three, four months to reread through that.
• 1:06:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:06:39
  SPEAKER_02: Or something, you know, because it's only a useful tool as long as you're using it.
• 1:06:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yep, totally.
• 1:06:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:06:45
  SPEAKER_02: And it's easy to think you read through it and oh, I'm good, I'm done.
• 1:06:50
  SPEAKER_02: But then if you put it away and you don't look at it again, it doesn't work for you anymore.
• 1:06:55
  SPEAKER_02: It it doesn't help you the way that it can.
• 1:06:58
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, just being intentional about even just spending five minutes on it to be like, where am I today?
• 1:07:06
  SPEAKER_02: Am I in a healthy, unhealthy, you know, that kind of thing?
• 1:07:09
  SPEAKER_02: And you will train your brain.
• 1:07:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yep, that's good.
• 1:07:14
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that's a great tool.
• 1:07:15
  SPEAKER_01: I think you'll really like our anneagram eight is going to be Christopher Heuritz, who wrote Sacred Aneagram.
• 1:07:22
  SPEAKER_01: And he spells out specific contemplative practices that each type can take.
• 1:07:28
  SPEAKER_01: And perfect.
• 1:07:28
  SPEAKER_01: It is that I use it as part of my coaching.
• 1:07:31
  SPEAKER_01: I personally use it because again, I don't want something else to tell me what it is that I need to do.
• 1:07:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like, don't get me more to do.
• 1:07:40
  SPEAKER_02: And right, please don't get me more to do.
• 1:07:43
  SPEAKER_01: I think Chris really spells out just what we can incorporate in our whatever coffee with Jesus, quiet time, whatever you want to call it.
• 1:07:51
  SPEAKER_01: That you do that it's the transforming work of the Holy Spirit, and it's God's work, it's not what we're doing.
• 1:07:59
  SPEAKER_01: Which in that in the end, that's it, right?
• 1:08:01
  SPEAKER_01: You know, drop the mic.
• 1:08:03
  SPEAKER_01: We just want God's work and to see our our health go from average to really healthy and us thriving and who we were created and meant to be.
• 1:08:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:08:15
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 1:08:16
  SPEAKER_01: And grace.
• 1:08:17
  SPEAKER_01: Lots of grace.
• 1:08:18
  SPEAKER_01: Lots of grace.
• 1:08:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I am looking at the time going, oh my gosh.
• 1:08:24
  SPEAKER_01: Of course we just did that.
• 1:08:28
  SPEAKER_02: No, but I would have loved this.
• 1:08:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I hope that the helpful conversation for people, and I hope that, you know, people who haven't explored the Ennegram will take a look into it.
• 1:08:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I hope people that are really serious about understanding themselves more will spend some time with you, Amy, because you are so good at this.
• 1:08:45
  SPEAKER_02: And it has been such an incredible experience for me to talk through that typing with you and understanding, you know, twos and sixes are kind of similar, so it would be fairly easy to mix them up, but getting a greater understanding of the true number that I am, that's just gonna help me grow.
• 1:09:03
  SPEAKER_02: That's gonna help me be a better version of me.
• 1:09:05
  SPEAKER_02: And I am so grateful to you for that.
• 1:09:07
  SPEAKER_02: And so just thank you so much.
• 1:09:09
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 1:09:09
  SPEAKER_01: I it's been my honor.
• 1:09:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's been it my joy and honor, and it really is.
• 1:09:13
  SPEAKER_01: That's why I love getting to do what I do.
• 1:09:15
  SPEAKER_02: You're good at it, girl.
• 1:09:20
  SPEAKER_01: Do you have a little better understanding of the Aneagram 6?
• 1:09:23
  SPEAKER_01: I certainly hope you've learned a little bit more in our conversation today.
• 1:09:27
  SPEAKER_01: You've taken the first step in the Aneagram journey and tuned in to hear perspective.
• 1:09:31
  SPEAKER_01: But if you're looking for more insight, I have several ways to help you.
• 1:09:35
  SPEAKER_01: Check out our Instagram feed for weekly Enneagram postings and then get the Wholehearted Enneagram Quick Start, which is my step-by-step guide to gain clearer understanding on your dominant type.
• 1:09:46
  SPEAKER_01: If you're looking for a colorful overview, my wholehearted Enneagram summary gives you the highlights of all nine types on one page.
• 1:09:54
  SPEAKER_01: It is so helpful as you talk to others about this awesome resource.
• 1:09:58
  SPEAKER_01: And last but not least, I've opened up a few more coaching spots for August.
• 1:10:03
  SPEAKER_01: So now, you can get on the wait list for a free 30-minute consult.
• 1:10:07
  SPEAKER_01: All the info is in the show notes or at simply wholehearted.com.
• 1:10:11
  SPEAKER_01: Also, be sure to follow Ann Watson on the socials.
• 1:10:14
  SPEAKER_01: When you need a pep talk, you can count on her content helping a sister out.
• 1:10:19
  SPEAKER_01: Remember, we want you to invite others to join us as we continue our summer in the Aneagram.
• 1:10:24
  SPEAKER_01: Next up, we'll be talking about Aneagram Sevens with Allie Worthington.
• 1:10:29
  SPEAKER_01: She leads with the Type 7 and she'll be giving us the inside scoop about her conference Blistum, which is having its reemergence this year in November.
• 1:10:37
  SPEAKER_01: And make sure you are subscribed so you don't miss another two week episode.
• 1:10:41
  SPEAKER_01: You never know when I might share an extra conversation.
• 1:10:45
  SPEAKER_01: Let's invite others to join us as we continue to pursue perspective, purpose, and plans for a simply full hearted life.