Latest / Miss Understood with Rachel Uchitel / Crime Journalist Billy Jensen Explains the Gilgo Beach Murders | Breaking News in the Long Island Serial Killer Case

Transcript

Crime Journalist Billy Jensen Explains the Gilgo Beach Murders | Breaking News in the Long Island Serial Killer Case · Miss Understood with Rachel Uchitel

0:00
Speaker 1: I remember being in a small town in Italy, struggling
0:02
Speaker 1: to order coffee. I just couldn't get my point across
0:05
Speaker 1: and it felt like I was missing out on really
0:07
Speaker 1: connecting with the place. It's exactly why Babbel is a
0:10
Speaker 1: game changer. It focuses on practical language skills, things you'd
0:14
Speaker 1: actually say in real life situations, not just textbook phrases.
0:17
Speaker 1: Imagine chatting easily at a cafe in Rome or asking
0:20
Speaker 1: directions in Tokyo. With Babbel, this can happen in just
0:24
Speaker 1: three weeks if you practice daily for only 10 minutes.
0:27
Speaker 1: It's designed by language experts, ensuring you learn conversational skills
0:31
Speaker 1: that natives really use. Plus, you can fit lessons into
0:35
Speaker 1: any part of your day, making it super convenient. So
0:37
Speaker 1: if you've ever wanted to dive back into a language
0:40
Speaker 1: or learn a new one, now is your chance. Visit babbel.com
0:44
Speaker 1: slash pod to save up to 60% off your subscription.
0:48
Speaker 1: That's B-A-B-B-E-L dot com slash P-O-D. Start your journey to
0:55
Speaker 1: real conversations in a new language today. Hi guys, welcome
1:28
Speaker 1: to a special episode of Misunderstood with Rachel Yucatel, where
1:32
Speaker 1: we are getting into breaking news in the true crime world.
1:35
Speaker 1: The Gilgo Beach murders traumatized and captivated Long Island for
1:39
Speaker 1: more than a decade, almost 13 years to be exact.
1:42
Speaker 1: Sex workers found tied up, their bodies wrapped in camouflage burlap.
1:46
Speaker 1: dumped like trash in Gilgo Beach. Burner phones, pizza crust,
1:49
Speaker 1: DNA on burlap, a New York City architect has been
1:52
Speaker 1: charged now with killing three women and possibly more. With
1:56
Speaker 1: me today is Billy Jensen, investigative journalist and also the
1:59
Speaker 1: co-host of the podcast Unraveled Long Island Serial Killer. Today
2:04
Speaker 1: I get to ask all sorts of questions about what's
2:05
Speaker 1: going on in the Gilgo Beach serial killer investigation and
2:10
Speaker 1: get to the bottom of what happened and where we
2:12
Speaker 1: are going forward. So here we go with Billy Jensen.
2:15
Speaker 1: and all the latest news on the Gilgo Beach serial killer. So, Billy,
2:22
Speaker 1: thank you for joining me. I want to know, first
2:25
Speaker 1: of all, when did this case take a new turn
2:27
Speaker 1: and get new life into it?
2:29
Speaker 2: It got new life into it when a new administration
2:31
Speaker 2: took over. Rodney Harrison, the new Suffolk County police chief,
2:36
Speaker 2: and Ray Tierney, the new DA, came in. And they
2:40
Speaker 2: said right away, that this was a priority for them,
2:44
Speaker 2: which is pretty impressive. And it's pretty kind of unprecedented
2:49
Speaker 2: when you think about it. When you think about all
2:51
Speaker 2: the problems that you have in a county as large
2:55
Speaker 2: as Suffolk County on Long Island, you know, we're talking
2:57
Speaker 2: about millions of people and they said they are going,
3:01
Speaker 2: you know, one of their priorities is a murder case
3:04
Speaker 2: from 12 years ago. They really did step up and
3:10
Speaker 2: they really did. take over from a bunch of different
3:16
Speaker 2: administrations that either did nothing because they were corrupt, because
3:20
Speaker 2: they were negligent, because they just didn't have the skills
3:23
Speaker 2: to do it.
3:24
Speaker 1: And how long was that, that they came in and
3:27
Speaker 1: restarted this?
3:27
Speaker 2: They came in in January of 2022. Okay, so not
3:32
Speaker 2: long ago. Not long ago. They hit the ground running.
3:34
Speaker 3: Okay.
3:35
Speaker 4: Okay.
3:36
Speaker 1: So let's back up for one second. Tell people about
3:41
Speaker 1: your podcast and what you did with Unraveled and how
3:45
Speaker 1: deep you got into this and why this stood out
3:47
Speaker 1: to you.
3:48
Speaker 2: With Unraveled, what we wanted to do was investigate the investigation.
3:52
Speaker 2: Why had this not been solved earlier? And a lot
3:56
Speaker 2: of things that have come out recently kind of point
4:00
Speaker 2: to it. What happened with the Long Island serial killer
4:04
Speaker 2: case is that they found four bodies on the beach,
4:11
Speaker 2: very close to each other on Gilgal Beach along Ocean
4:14
Speaker 2: Parkway on the south shore of Long Island. Then as
4:17
Speaker 2: they kept searching, they found six more bodies in various
4:22
Speaker 2: states of decomposition. Some of them were dismembered. Now, the
4:29
Speaker 2: four victims, what we call the Gilgo Four, which is Melissa, Maureen, Megan,
4:34
Speaker 2: and Amber, they were all found in a similar place.
4:39
Speaker 2: They were all, or at least what we know of,
4:44
Speaker 2: most of them were wrapped in burlap. They were all
4:47
Speaker 2: petite white women who were working in the sex work trade,
4:52
Speaker 2: and they were using the internet to find clients. Now,
4:57
Speaker 2: The other victims, which were Valerie Mack and Jessica Taylor,
5:01
Speaker 2: who were also sex workers, but they had been killed
5:05
Speaker 2: even before the internet really became a place to find
5:07
Speaker 2: sex workers. There was Peaches and the Baby, who is
5:11
Speaker 2: a black woman, black female. And her body was initially,
5:16
Speaker 2: and this was a story that I initially covered when
5:19
Speaker 2: I was on Long Island as a journalist, you know,
5:21
Speaker 2: 20 years ago before, you know, Long Island serial killer
5:25
Speaker 2: was even a thing. Um, and her baby, they were found.
5:30
Speaker 2: And then there was a fire Island, Jane Doe and a,
5:32
Speaker 2: what they call biological Asian male in women's clothing is
5:36
Speaker 2: the last victim. So you had, you had 10 victims
5:41
Speaker 2: out on this, uh, stretch of beach, which is, you know,
5:46
Speaker 2: I want to say, you know, Long Island, people think
5:48
Speaker 2: of it's, it's, it's just one Long Island, but there's
5:51
Speaker 2: an Island and then there's an Island underneath it. And
5:53
Speaker 2: that's what, um, What Jones Beach is, is Jones Beach,
5:58
Speaker 2: there's Gilgo Beach, and then there's Oak Park. So, or
6:04
Speaker 2: Oak Beach. And that is all where these bodies were found.
6:10
Speaker 2: What we learned is that after a year of investigation,
6:14
Speaker 2: There was a new police chief whose name was James Burke.
6:17
Speaker 2: He took over the investigation and he immediately kicks out
6:19
Speaker 2: the FBI. Why does he do that? Why do you
6:22
Speaker 2: kick out the most sophisticated crime solving unit in the
6:26
Speaker 2: history of the world out of your serial killer investigation?
6:30
Speaker 2: And we learn is that it's because he did not
6:34
Speaker 2: want them sniffing around his dirty laundry because he was
6:37
Speaker 2: a corrupt cop. And he did a lot of bad things.
6:41
Speaker 2: He did frequent sex workers. And there were even, there
6:46
Speaker 2: were rumors that he might've even been involved with the,
6:48
Speaker 2: with the Long Island serial killer case, but he definitely
6:51
Speaker 2: was involved in stunting it because we never heard anything
6:55
Speaker 2: after that first year when there was back and forth
6:59
Speaker 2: as to whether there was one killer, multiple killers, that
7:01
Speaker 2: kind of thing. There still was a lot of news
7:04
Speaker 2: that was going on in the, in the press and,
7:07
Speaker 2: once he took over, we didn't hear anything for years
7:11
Speaker 2: and it's because he just wanted to shut it down.
7:15
Speaker 1: It was too close to home for him.
7:17
Speaker 5: It sounds like.
7:18
Speaker 1: Um, so let me ask you a question about Shannon Gilbert.
7:22
Speaker 1: She's the girl that this, she triggered the hunt, right.
7:25
Speaker 1: For all these bodies that were found. Um, I recently
7:30
Speaker 1: listened to the 22 minute 911 call. I listened to
7:33
Speaker 1: all the details surrounding that situation. Um, I guess my
7:37
Speaker 1: question out of that, and I want to get into
7:38
Speaker 1: the details with you in a second, but do you
7:40
Speaker 1: think there could be more than one murderer here?
7:44
Speaker 2: More than one murderer?
7:45
Speaker 3: Yeah.
7:45
Speaker 2: Is that what you're saying? I think there is definitely... The.
7:48
Speaker 4: Car is beautiful. Where did you end up going for it?
7:51
Speaker 3: This exclusive place that Dada's connections with. They have more
7:55
Speaker 3: cars for more dealerships than like anywhere else.
7:57
Speaker 4: You have to put me in touch. What's it called?
7:59
Speaker 5: It's Dune ADL.
8:01
Speaker 4: Where? Dune ADL.
8:04
Speaker 5: There's an accent on the E.
8:07
Speaker 4: Do you mean.
8:07
Speaker 5: Yes, I got it on Dundale Cars.
8:09
Speaker 3: Lyft, please.
8:11
Speaker 4: You're going past Kimmage. Oh, Kimmage.
8:13
Speaker 1: No.
8:14
Speaker 5: Dundale Cars. You couldn't possibly go anywhere else.
8:18
Speaker 2: Probably more than one murderer. I think... I think Rex
8:23
Speaker 2: is the killer of the Gilgo Four. He's been verified
8:29
Speaker 2: based on DNA that was found on the, you know,
8:33
Speaker 2: and then also so many other things. Cell phone records.
8:36
Speaker 2: his Google search term, certainly. But when you get to
8:41
Speaker 2: Valerie Mack and Jessica Taylor, that's another killer. When you
8:45
Speaker 2: get to Peaches and the Baby, that might be another killer.
8:47
Speaker 2: I think we're looking at probably four killers, at least.
8:52
Speaker 2: But when we get- And could.
8:53
Speaker 1: They, in your opinion, could they be related? Do they
8:55
Speaker 1: know of each other's work? Or it's just, it happened
8:57
Speaker 1: to be a dumping ground, so to speak, that was
9:00
Speaker 1: easy to dump a body.
9:01
Speaker 2: There are dumping, yeah, that's happened before. It's happened before,
9:05
Speaker 2: you know, there was- There was the I-5 killer in California,
9:11
Speaker 2: and they kept saying, oh, this is an I-5 killer.
9:12
Speaker 2: It turns out there were three different I-5 killers in
9:15
Speaker 2: the killing fields of Texas. There were bodies that were
9:18
Speaker 2: found yards away from each other. It turns out they
9:21
Speaker 2: were killed by different killers. They don't necessarily know each
9:25
Speaker 2: other now. They just happen to use this place as
9:28
Speaker 2: a dumping ground. As far as Shannon Gilbert goes, when
9:31
Speaker 2: you listen to the Shannon Gilbert call, it's tragic to Um,
9:35
Speaker 2: and it's incredibly frightening and she did kick off this
9:39
Speaker 2: entire thing. Um, but you know, a lot of people
9:43
Speaker 2: believe that Shannon Gilbert and the police certainly have said this,
9:47
Speaker 2: that she died of misadventure. She died of, um, uh,
9:51
Speaker 2: having some sort of a psychotic break or something. She
9:55
Speaker 2: ran away from her client. She had a date with
9:59
Speaker 2: a client in the Oak Beach community. She, for whatever reason,
10:07
Speaker 2: ran away, started knocking on doors.
10:09
Speaker 1: And also ran away from her driver who was there
10:12
Speaker 1: to kind of follow her and protect her.
10:14
Speaker 2: And she ran away from the driver as well. And
10:17
Speaker 2: then she ended up being found in the marsh well
10:21
Speaker 2: after all of these other women were found. But Shannon
10:23
Speaker 2: is so important because like you said, Shannon kicked off
10:25
Speaker 2: this investigation. We might never have known if not for Shannon.
10:29
Speaker 1: So is it, is it known at this point that
10:32
Speaker 1: she's probably not one of the people that was murdered?
10:35
Speaker 1: I mean, I think there was a lot of speculation
10:37
Speaker 1: for a while and I've heard some people talking about it,
10:40
Speaker 1: about whether or not she'd fell into, you know, she
10:42
Speaker 1: ran into Rex that night and he happened to be there.
10:45
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously these people are just speculating because everyone's
10:49
Speaker 1: only hearing about Rex at the moment. But do you
10:52
Speaker 1: think it's completely unrelated?
10:54
Speaker 2: I think it's completely unrelated. I think when you're looking
10:58
Speaker 2: at Melissa, Maureen, Megan and Amber, they all follow the
11:02
Speaker 2: same trajectory, the same MO. When you're looking at And
11:08
Speaker 2: they didn't have a driver. That's probably one of the
11:10
Speaker 2: most important things. They didn't have a driver. And we
11:13
Speaker 2: know that Shannon did have a driver. So you just
11:16
Speaker 2: take it from there. Right. Okay.
11:18
Speaker 1: So let's get into how... they actually found this man.
11:23
Speaker 1: And we talked about why it took so long. Did you,
11:27
Speaker 1: was he on your radar? I know you've been covering
11:29
Speaker 1: this for a long time. Is he someone whose name
11:31
Speaker 1: you had heard before?
11:32
Speaker 2: No, no. And there weren't any names really, as far
11:36
Speaker 2: as Long Island serial killer goes, there was never any names.
11:39
Speaker 2: I mean, you might see a name pop up here
11:41
Speaker 2: or there, the sort of, what about this guy scenario
11:44
Speaker 2: where people might, you know, the names that were out
11:48
Speaker 2: there were, um, you know, the own, I don't even
11:52
Speaker 2: want to mention his name because, because it's, it's, it's false,
11:56
Speaker 2: but who had died by suicide, who owned the Long
12:00
Speaker 2: Island Aquarium out in Riverhead, that sort of thing. There
12:03
Speaker 2: were names that were bopped about like that, but this guy, no,
12:07
Speaker 2: this guy was not on anybody's radar. Right.
12:09
Speaker 1: So this guy, you know, burner phones, pizza crust, DNA
12:13
Speaker 1: on burlap. He's a New York city architect that was
12:16
Speaker 1: charged with at this point, three killings, right? And potentially
12:20
Speaker 1: the fourth.
12:20
Speaker 2: He's charged with three killings. He will be charged with
12:22
Speaker 2: the fourth at some point. It seems like what happened was,
12:27
Speaker 2: this is an incredibly interesting case in the way that they,
12:31
Speaker 2: not even the way that they solved it, but the
12:32
Speaker 2: way that they were building the case. The way that
12:35
Speaker 2: they solved it, forget about the pizza crust. Everybody is
12:39
Speaker 2: focusing on the pizza crust. It makes a good headline.
12:42
Speaker 2: They took a picture of the pizza crust. It's not
12:45
Speaker 2: how they solved it. It's how they verified it, but
12:47
Speaker 2: it's not how they solved it. How they solved it
12:50
Speaker 2: was with the investigation into Amber and how Amber was murdered. Now,
12:57
Speaker 2: this is what it comes down to, and this is
12:59
Speaker 2: one of the main reasons why this easily could have
13:02
Speaker 2: been– I don't want to say easily. This could have
13:04
Speaker 2: been solved 12 years ago. Amber used to– Amber was
13:09
Speaker 2: a sex worker. She used to roll johns. which means
13:15
Speaker 2: that she would, she would invite a John over to
13:18
Speaker 2: her house and then pretend to have a date with them.
13:22
Speaker 2: And then a quote unquote boyfriend would show up, threaten
13:26
Speaker 2: the John, and then they would empty the John's pockets.
13:29
Speaker 2: The John would wouldn't want to say anything about it.
13:32
Speaker 2: And then that would be it. So she wouldn't have
13:34
Speaker 2: to have sex with the John. The John would give
13:38
Speaker 2: the money and then that would be it. Now we
13:40
Speaker 2: have learned that she'd, And we knew that she had
13:44
Speaker 2: done this. This was all knowledge. It was knowledge on
13:47
Speaker 2: the message boards that this was one of the things
13:49
Speaker 2: that she would do. Now, what we learn from the
13:55
Speaker 2: court documents after Rex was arrested is that two days
14:00
Speaker 2: prior to her going missing, she had a date with someone.
14:07
Speaker 2: The guy shows up. The quote unquote boyfriend shows up. says,
14:11
Speaker 2: you know, what are you doing here with my girlfriend,
14:12
Speaker 2: that kind of thing, gets the money, the guy leaves.
14:17
Speaker 2: The guy is described as having bushy brown hair, glasses,
14:21
Speaker 2: like big giant glasses, and is a giant of a man,
14:27
Speaker 2: you know, 6'4 to 6'6, heavy, and drives a dark
14:34
Speaker 2: colored Chevy Avalanche. Now, with all of that information And
14:40
Speaker 2: this comes from the boyfriend, quote unquote boyfriend, who jumped in. Now,
14:45
Speaker 2: with all of that information, you triangulate that with the
14:49
Speaker 2: fact that we know that the killer was calling from
14:54
Speaker 2: Massapequa Park in Massapequa area, calling the victims Melissa's sister,
15:01
Speaker 2: taunting Melissa's sister after he had killed her. We know
15:06
Speaker 2: he was calling from Midtown Manhattan.
15:08
Speaker 4: The car is beautiful. Where did you end up going
15:11
Speaker 4: for it?
15:11
Speaker 3: This exclusive place that Dad has connections with. They have
15:14
Speaker 3: more cars for more dealerships than, like, anywhere else.
15:17
Speaker 4: You have to put me in touch. What's it called?
15:19
Speaker 5: It's Dunediel.
15:21
Speaker 2: Where?
15:23
Speaker 3: Dunediel.
15:24
Speaker 5: There's an accent on the E.
15:27
Speaker 4: Do you mean.
15:27
Speaker 5: Yes, I got it on Dunediel Cars.
15:29
Speaker 4: Lift? Please. Are you going past Kimmage? Oh, Kimmage!
15:33
Speaker 1: No.
15:34
Speaker 5: Dunediel Cars. You couldn't possibly go anywhere else.
15:38
Speaker 2: And as well... It's not that much of a stretch
15:42
Speaker 2: to go, let's search for all of the people that
15:46
Speaker 2: drive a Chevy Avalanche, which on Long Island is not
15:51
Speaker 2: that common of a car, a dark Chevy Avalanche that
15:54
Speaker 2: live in Massapequa. And then narrow that down to how
15:58
Speaker 2: many of those people are over six foot four. And
16:02
Speaker 2: then you should have been able to get that name
16:05
Speaker 2: and then look into him. And then you would be
16:07
Speaker 2: able to find all of this other things. The pieces
16:10
Speaker 2: were there. They were never put together. And that's one
16:13
Speaker 2: of the biggest and the most frustrating things that came
16:16
Speaker 2: to me when they were during the press conference is
16:20
Speaker 2: that you see them doing a victory lap. You see
16:23
Speaker 2: them showing the pizza crust. It's no, it's just the
16:25
Speaker 2: pieces were all there. Somebody had to put them together. Thankfully,
16:29
Speaker 2: this new administration did put them together, but they were
16:31
Speaker 2: there for Suffolk County for a dozen years.
16:33
Speaker 4: And they understood stuff.
16:36
Speaker 1: I'm so excited to tell you guys about our new sponsor,
16:39
Speaker 1: Green Chef. Green Chef is the number one meal kit
16:42
Speaker 1: for eating well with dinners that you can personalize to
16:44
Speaker 1: your own taste and lifestyle. I try to be very
16:47
Speaker 1: conscious of what I eat and I love that everything
16:49
Speaker 1: in Green Chef is pre-proportioned for me without having to measure.
16:53
Speaker 1: And as the only keto meal kit, Green Chef makes
16:56
Speaker 1: sticking to a carb-conscious lifestyle so easy. I take my
16:59
Speaker 1: health very seriously, and I love it that Green Chef
17:01
Speaker 1: does as well, by bringing me seasonal recipes featuring certified
17:05
Speaker 1: organic fruits and vegetables, organic cage-free eggs, and sustainably sourced seafood.
17:10
Speaker 1: It's summertime, which means if you're like me, you're busier
17:13
Speaker 1: than ever with activities, kids at home, holidays. And what
17:15
Speaker 1: I love about Green Chef is that everything is done
17:17
Speaker 1: for you. All you have to do is throw it
17:19
Speaker 1: together and it's ready in literally less than 30 minutes.
17:22
Speaker 1: It's so fast. It's really going to save me time
17:24
Speaker 1: this summer with my crazy schedule and it will totally
17:26
Speaker 1: save you time. And not only that, the food is
17:28
Speaker 1: so good. I'm personally so excited to try the lemon
17:31
Speaker 1: basil caper pork with sauteed cauliflower, bell pepper, Almonds and
17:35
Speaker 1: feta cheese. It looks so good and healthy. And oh
17:37
Speaker 1: my gosh, I'm looking here. The fig and prosciutto pita
17:40
Speaker 1: pizzas with feta, mozzarella, tomato, and kale salad with hazelnuts
17:44
Speaker 1: look like an amazing and super fast lunch option that
17:46
Speaker 1: even my daughter Wyatt is excited to try. I have
17:49
Speaker 1: to admit that cooking is not my favorite activity. And
17:51
Speaker 1: not only that, I really suck at it. But I
17:53
Speaker 1: do love great food. And actually, I also love staying home.
17:56
Speaker 1: So Green Chef is going to be the best of
17:58
Speaker 1: both worlds for me. So give Green Chef a try today.
18:01
Speaker 1: Use our special discount code for a great deal. You're
18:03
Speaker 1: not going to believe this. You get 60% off plus
18:05
Speaker 1: free shipping. So go to greenchef.com slash understood60 and use
18:10
Speaker 1: code understood60 to get 60% off plus free shipping. That's
18:14
Speaker 1: all lowercase, by the way. And again, that's greenchef.com slash
18:18
Speaker 1: understood60 and use code understood60 to get 60% off plus
18:23
Speaker 1: free shipping. Green Chef, the number one meal kit for
18:26
Speaker 1: eating well. So how long do you think they've been
18:32
Speaker 1: surveilling him?
18:33
Speaker 2: They were surveilling him since the beginning of 2022 and
18:36
Speaker 2: spring of 2022, it seems like. So that's another question
18:41
Speaker 2: I have. You know, the biggest questions I have are,
18:44
Speaker 2: The first is, has he killed other people? That's the
18:47
Speaker 2: number one thing. The second is, who killed these other
18:50
Speaker 2: six women and the biological Asian male in women's clothing
18:55
Speaker 2: and the baby out on Ocean Parkway? So those are
18:58
Speaker 2: the first two biggest questions. But the third question is,
19:02
Speaker 2: how were they able to ensure the safety of women
19:05
Speaker 2: that he was still seeing while they were, quote unquote,
19:09
Speaker 2: surveilling him? Was he under surveillance 24 hours a day?
19:14
Speaker 2: How did they make sure that he wasn't killing any
19:17
Speaker 2: more people while they were watching him for over a year?
19:20
Speaker 2: And they still haven't told us that.
19:22
Speaker 1: Well, could it be possible that he did this a
19:25
Speaker 1: decade ago and then stopped, you know, getting involved with
19:28
Speaker 1: sex workers or you think that he was still involved?
19:31
Speaker 2: Oh, he was still they said he was still seeing
19:33
Speaker 2: sex workers up until this year, like up until they
19:38
Speaker 2: arrested him. This was still his thing. He was still
19:40
Speaker 2: seeing sex workers. So there was a possibility of him
19:44
Speaker 2: murdering these sex workers. I think he knew that the
19:47
Speaker 2: police were on him. At least he knew that of
19:51
Speaker 2: the investigation. You know, when you look at, you know,
19:55
Speaker 2: the Golden State Killer case, which is another case that
19:57
Speaker 2: I was involved in, there was no evidence that he
20:03
Speaker 2: had been searching for the Golden State Killer investigation that
20:07
Speaker 2: he had read. Michelle McNamara's book or anything like that.
20:10
Speaker 2: With this, we know that he had been doing searches
20:13
Speaker 2: for Long Island serial killer. He had been doing searches
20:16
Speaker 2: for the victim's names. He knew about the investigation and
20:20
Speaker 2: what was going on. He was keeping abreast of everything.
20:23
Speaker 4: Right.
20:23
Speaker 1: And what do we know about his family? I mean,
20:25
Speaker 1: we know he is a husband. He has two kids, right?
20:29
Speaker 1: And seemed like a quiet, average dude. How likely is
20:34
Speaker 1: it that his wife didn't know he was you know,
20:38
Speaker 1: he had a, you know, a liking for younger women
20:42
Speaker 1: who were sex workers. I mean, is it possible his
20:45
Speaker 1: wife had no idea?
20:46
Speaker 2: I think it's very likely, you know, one of the things,
20:51
Speaker 2: and this was a theory that a lot of people
20:53
Speaker 2: had is that he was married, that he had his
20:55
Speaker 2: own house and that he, he did these murders during
21:00
Speaker 2: a time because a lot of the murders were over
21:03
Speaker 2: weekends or holidays and that sort of thing when somebody
21:06
Speaker 2: else would potentially be on vacation. And it turns out
21:09
Speaker 2: that was true. She had gone to Iceland. She had
21:11
Speaker 2: gone to Maryland during this time. So when she would
21:15
Speaker 2: go away, that's when he would go and frequent the
21:18
Speaker 2: sex workers. So it's very likely that she had absolutely
21:22
Speaker 2: no idea. And I've seen things being written and message
21:25
Speaker 2: boards just because her hair was found, you know, two
21:28
Speaker 2: of her hairs were found on one of the victims that, oh,
21:33
Speaker 2: she had to have been involved or anything, but there's,
21:34
Speaker 2: you know, hairs are easily transferable. Think about how many
21:38
Speaker 2: hairs that you might have of your significant other on
21:41
Speaker 2: your clothing or whatever. So still needs to be looked into,
21:46
Speaker 2: but it's very possible that she had no idea.
21:49
Speaker 1: So people, for people who are not following the case
21:52
Speaker 1: that closely, can you talk about the scene kind of,
21:56
Speaker 1: can you talk about what it's like in Oak beach, um,
22:00
Speaker 1: where this all happened, how far away it is from
22:02
Speaker 1: where Rex lives. Yeah.
22:05
Speaker 2: So Rex lives in Massapequa and Oak beach. Um, think
22:11
Speaker 2: of it this way. There's a smaller Island underneath long Island,
22:14
Speaker 2: and it's also a very long strip of land. There
22:19
Speaker 2: are two ways to get to it. There's two parkways,
22:21
Speaker 2: Wanta parkway and Robert Moses parkway. Uh, he would have
22:25
Speaker 2: gotten there from Massapequa, uh.
22:28
Speaker 4: The car is beautiful. Where did you end up going
22:31
Speaker 4: for it?
22:31
Speaker 3: This exclusive place that Dad has connections with. They have
22:34
Speaker 3: more cars for more dealerships than like anywhere else.
22:37
Speaker 4: You have to put me in touch. What's it called?
22:39
Speaker 5: It's Dunaidial.
22:41
Speaker 4: Where? Dunaidial.
22:44
Speaker 5: There's an accent on the E.
22:47
Speaker 4: Do you mean.
22:48
Speaker 5: Yes, I got it on Dundale Cars.
22:49
Speaker 2: Lift?
22:50
Speaker 4: Please. Are you going past Kimmage? Oh, Kimmage.
22:53
Speaker 3: No.
22:55
Speaker 5: Dundale Cars. You couldn't possibly go anywhere else.
22:58
Speaker 2: From Danwantaw Parkway, driving along Oak Beach. It's only, you know,
23:06
Speaker 2: five or six miles from his house. And, you know,
23:11
Speaker 2: we were always thinking that he probably would have come
23:14
Speaker 2: through the other way because the bodies were all dumped
23:18
Speaker 2: on the north side, which means that the person would
23:21
Speaker 2: have to be going west as opposed to be going east,
23:24
Speaker 2: which is where the way that he would have been going.
23:27
Speaker 2: So he traversed Ocean Parkway a lot, probably, and found
23:33
Speaker 2: a place that was a good depositing ground. I don't
23:39
Speaker 2: like to use the term dumping ground, depositing ground where
23:42
Speaker 2: he knew that a car wouldn't show up. He wouldn't
23:45
Speaker 2: be able to see a car, wouldn't be able to
23:47
Speaker 2: see him for a while. And what he did was
23:49
Speaker 2: he put the body over his, you know, probably over
23:52
Speaker 2: his back. He was a big man. These were all
23:55
Speaker 2: very tiny women. you know, usually around 100 pounds, and
23:59
Speaker 2: he would walk over and then toss them into the bramble.
24:04
Speaker 2: And the bramble would have been, you know, a lot
24:06
Speaker 2: of them very well might have been, you know, it's not,
24:09
Speaker 2: and this wasn't on the edge of the sea, this
24:11
Speaker 2: was in a bay. So there would be a, there
24:15
Speaker 2: was bramble, there was the road, then there was bramble,
24:17
Speaker 2: and then there was a bay So it wouldn't be
24:21
Speaker 2: out in the ocean. There wasn't any ocean type waves
24:24
Speaker 2: or anything like that that would have disrupted that scene. But,
24:29
Speaker 2: you know, all it might have taken was a couple
24:32
Speaker 2: of hurricanes and, you know, everything would have been really disrupted.
24:36
Speaker 1: And it's not a gated community, right? I mean, even
24:38
Speaker 1: though they call it a community, obviously you can get
24:41
Speaker 1: in easy and not live there.
24:43
Speaker 2: Oh, you can get– Oak Beach is a gated community.
24:45
Speaker 2: So where Shannon went, she had to go through a
24:47
Speaker 2: gate and everything. And we looked a lot at the
24:50
Speaker 2: Oak Beach community in Unraveled because there's a lot of
24:53
Speaker 2: weird things that go on there.
24:54
Speaker 1: Okay.
24:55
Speaker 2: There's a lot of power brokers that are there. Even
24:59
Speaker 2: the original power broker in New York, Robert Moses, who
25:05
Speaker 2: wielded so much control over New York and the New
25:07
Speaker 2: York roadways and really everything that was going on in
25:10
Speaker 2: terms of infrastructure in New York lived there. but the no, there's,
25:15
Speaker 2: there's not in order to get down a long ocean parkway,
25:20
Speaker 2: there's no, you know, you don't really go through anything
25:23
Speaker 2: other than, you know, the tolls for Jones beach or whatever,
25:26
Speaker 2: but yeah. Right.
25:28
Speaker 1: And just to get back to Shannon for one second,
25:31
Speaker 1: did they look heavily at all the people in the neighborhood?
25:33
Speaker 1: Did they look heavily at the guy's house she was
25:36
Speaker 1: visiting and the driver and all that as well. And
25:40
Speaker 1: when they were looking at the other murders as well.
25:43
Speaker 2: They did.
25:43
Speaker 1: The other bodies they found.
25:45
Speaker 2: They did. Just because Shannon's case was looked at very
25:49
Speaker 2: closely because that was the one that kicked everything off.
25:53
Speaker 2: That was the one where they had the 911 call.
25:56
Speaker 2: That was the one that had so much, because her
26:00
Speaker 2: family was so vocal and it was... the one that
26:05
Speaker 2: captured the public's imagination and kept it in the press
26:07
Speaker 2: for so long.
26:09
Speaker 1: Yeah.
26:09
Speaker 2: So they looked at everybody in that neighborhood, everybody that,
26:13
Speaker 2: you know, and there were a lot of weird characters
26:17
Speaker 2: in that neighborhood. It was, you know, Oak Beach is
26:20
Speaker 2: a place where you go where you don't want to
26:22
Speaker 2: be bothered. You know, it really is. It's at the
26:25
Speaker 2: very end of this other island that's at the bottom
26:29
Speaker 2: of Long Island. And it's good.
26:32
Speaker 1: So, so many people, I mean, you just put on,
26:35
Speaker 1: put Gilgo Beach on Google and there's, you know, hundreds
26:38
Speaker 1: of thousands of articles at this point and speculation and
26:41
Speaker 1: just regurgitating the news. What is something that's important that
26:45
Speaker 1: people are missing in this or that people should know? Um,
26:49
Speaker 1: so they're not just kind of reading the same headlines
26:51
Speaker 1: and what's important to the story for, for you to
26:53
Speaker 1: get across?
26:54
Speaker 2: I think the important thing for the story is that
26:58
Speaker 2: it's not over. Mm-hmm. he is, he's going to be
27:01
Speaker 2: charged with four murders. He's been charged with three. He
27:04
Speaker 2: will be charged with the fourth one. I think, um,
27:07
Speaker 2: the most important thing for me is that we still
27:09
Speaker 2: have six victims that were found along ocean Parkway that
27:13
Speaker 2: we still don't know what happened to them. And, um,
27:16
Speaker 2: you know, even I think Ray Tierney kind of slipped
27:20
Speaker 2: up at the press conference because that he said that
27:22
Speaker 2: this is over and it's, it's not over, you know, um, he, um,
27:26
Speaker 2: you know, the Gilgal four, that might be over, but
27:29
Speaker 2: we still don't know who killed these six victims. So
27:32
Speaker 2: that's the big.
27:32
Speaker 1: I think that's so important to mention because anytime I've
27:36
Speaker 1: heard people talking about this, they assume that we're talking
27:38
Speaker 1: about all 10 and they assume that he's the guy
27:41
Speaker 1: that did it all. And I think that's really interesting
27:45
Speaker 1: that you are reminding us that there, you don't think
27:48
Speaker 1: that they're tied together and there's a possibility that there's
27:50
Speaker 1: more than one person out there that we haven't found yet.
27:53
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Um, There's just so much difference between
27:58
Speaker 2: the victims when you're looking at the victimology. The victimology
28:01
Speaker 2: between Melissa, Maureen, Megan, and Amber are so similar. when
28:05
Speaker 2: we're looking at peaches and the baby and fire Island
28:08
Speaker 2: dough and, and Jessica and Valerie, they're just Jessica and
28:13
Speaker 2: Valerie are very similar, but the other ones are so different,
28:16
Speaker 2: different time periods, you know, different races, different, just everything
28:21
Speaker 2: is just a different makeup. And the fact that we
28:23
Speaker 2: don't even know, you know, there's six other victims. We
28:26
Speaker 2: don't even know who four of them are, you know,
28:28
Speaker 2: we don't even have their identity. So they need to,
28:32
Speaker 2: keep on hammering at that. And, you know, there's no
28:38
Speaker 2: reason to think that they won't have success with at
28:41
Speaker 2: least some of them because they put their money where
28:43
Speaker 2: their mouth is. You know, they took over an investigation
28:46
Speaker 2: that had gone through so much corruption, so much negligence,
28:50
Speaker 2: and they were able to really hit the ground running.
28:53
Speaker 2: And within months of them taking it over, they got
28:57
Speaker 2: the name of Rex.
28:59
Speaker 1: I'm curious, how long did it take? over the span
29:03
Speaker 1: of how much time to find all these bodies? Was
29:05
Speaker 1: it one year that all these, it wasn't bodies either,
29:08
Speaker 1: it was parts, yeah?
29:09
Speaker 2: Well, the part, yeah. So they found Melissa, Maureen, Megan,
29:13
Speaker 2: and Amber pretty quickly, you know, within days of each other.
29:16
Speaker 2: They were found so close together.
29:18
Speaker 1: And then- But how long did they say that they
29:21
Speaker 1: had been decomposing?
29:23
Speaker 4: Do you know?
29:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, we know because we know, you know, when they
29:26
Speaker 2: had gone missing. So it was within- Oh, right, okay. Yeah,
29:29
Speaker 2: so- Um, but when.
29:31
Speaker 1: And to clarify for our listeners, so how long had
29:33
Speaker 1: those girls been missing by the time they were found?
29:36
Speaker 2: About anywhere between six months to a year. Okay.
29:39
Speaker 1: And was there an actual cause of death for each one?
29:42
Speaker 2: They never told us.
29:45
Speaker 4: Wow.
29:45
Speaker 2: Yeah, they never told us. And I think they still
29:47
Speaker 2: haven't told us. The car is beautiful.
29:51
Speaker 4: Where did you end up going for it?
29:53
Speaker 3: This exclusive place that Dada's connections with. they have more
29:56
Speaker 3: cars for more dealerships than, like, anywhere else.
29:58
Speaker 4: You have to put me in touch. What's it called?
30:00
Speaker 5: It's Dune-A-D-L.
30:02
Speaker 4: Where? Dune-A-D-L.
30:05
Speaker 5: There's an accent on the E.
30:08
Speaker 4: Do you mean.
30:09
Speaker 5: Yes, I got it on Done Deal Cars.
30:10
Speaker 2: Lift?
30:11
Speaker 4: Please. You going past Kimmage? Oh, Kimmage.
30:14
Speaker 1: No.
30:16
Speaker 5: Done Deal Cars. You couldn't possibly go anywhere else.
30:19
Speaker 2: One of the things that they did say at the
30:21
Speaker 2: press conference was that there was bindings of the victims
30:25
Speaker 2: and binding of the head, the chest area, and then
30:29
Speaker 2: the feet. So that was something that we had not
30:33
Speaker 2: heard before. But as far as cause of death goes,
30:36
Speaker 2: they had not told us that.
30:38
Speaker 1: And is it interesting to you that the police have
30:41
Speaker 1: been recovering large numbers of guns from Rex's home?
30:47
Speaker 2: Sure. I mean, he had 92, apparently 92 guns. They
30:52
Speaker 2: weren't all at his home, apparently, but 92 legal guns.
30:59
Speaker 2: That's certainly interesting. We don't know whether, you know, that's probably,
31:04
Speaker 2: you'd have to think that's probably one of the ways
31:06
Speaker 2: that he exerted control over some of these victims, but
31:09
Speaker 2: not that he needed it because he was 6'4, you know, 2'4.
31:15
Speaker 2: But he probably used a gun in order to exert control.
31:18
Speaker 2: But we haven't heard anything about whether those were used
31:21
Speaker 2: as actual weapons.
31:22
Speaker 1: So he's in custody now, right? He's in jail and
31:25
Speaker 1: he's pleading not guilty.
31:27
Speaker 2: Yes.
31:28
Speaker 1: So he's back in court when? I think I read
31:30
Speaker 1: August 1st.
31:31
Speaker 2: Yeah.
31:32
Speaker 1: And do we assume he's going to get out on
31:35
Speaker 1: bail while things are happening? What are your thoughts?
31:37
Speaker 2: No, he's not getting out on bail. no, they're not
31:40
Speaker 2: going to let this guy out on bail. He'll stay
31:43
Speaker 2: in there. He did say, apparently whispered under his breath,
31:46
Speaker 2: they heard him say, I didn't do this. You know,
31:50
Speaker 2: we have to let the justice system, you know, go
31:56
Speaker 2: through it. But he looks incredibly good for this. And,
32:01
Speaker 2: you know, verifying it with the When you take the
32:04
Speaker 2: fact of, you know, there was a lot of cell
32:06
Speaker 2: phone data, a lot of cell phone where the cell
32:10
Speaker 2: phones were pinging, the way that they were able to
32:15
Speaker 2: monitor his cell phones and the burner phone. So he
32:18
Speaker 2: bought a different burner phone for each victim. And, you know,
32:23
Speaker 2: he really felt like he was covering his tracks and
32:27
Speaker 2: they might not have been able to pin it on
32:29
Speaker 2: him so clearly had he not left those hairs. on
32:34
Speaker 2: the victims. Um, what they would have had was the
32:37
Speaker 2: cell phone pinging and, um, the victims or the, um,
32:42
Speaker 2: the survivor's testimony, at least of that, that boyfriend, uh,
32:46
Speaker 2: quote unquote from Amber's case who said he drove a
32:49
Speaker 2: Chevy avalanche and then, you know, his Google searches, that's
32:53
Speaker 2: really all they would have had. So having that physical
32:55
Speaker 2: evidence was big. And also one of the things that,
32:59
Speaker 2: that should be noted is that like we were saying,
33:03
Speaker 2: They were monitoring him for a really long time. They
33:06
Speaker 2: verified with DNA that it was him over a year ago.
33:11
Speaker 2: So what was he doing during that year? And what
33:18
Speaker 2: else could they have been waiting for in order to
33:22
Speaker 2: arrest him? Why were they waiting this long? And apparently,
33:25
Speaker 2: I think they were trying to pin all four on him.
33:29
Speaker 2: And I believe Maureen was the one that they weren't
33:32
Speaker 2: able to get. But and then they rushed this because
33:36
Speaker 2: they they said that they felt that the public might
33:38
Speaker 2: be at harm. Maybe he was he was ramping up
33:42
Speaker 2: to kill again. But he knew I think he knew
33:44
Speaker 2: people were at least watching him.
33:46
Speaker 3: Yeah.
33:47
Speaker 1: If you were working on his defense team, what would
33:51
Speaker 1: you come up with to get him out of this?
33:54
Speaker 2: Oh, God, Rachel.
33:55
Speaker 1: Yeah.
34:00
Speaker 2: He's not going to do an insanity plea. I don't
34:03
Speaker 2: see that. I think he's going to– if he's doing
34:07
Speaker 2: not guilty right now, I think he's going to try
34:11
Speaker 2: and do some sort of circumstantial thing like my hair
34:14
Speaker 2: got in there because of some reason or another. That's
34:17
Speaker 2: the sort of thing. But he's really not going to
34:21
Speaker 2: have much of a chance. It's going to be interesting
34:25
Speaker 2: to– because he is– pleading not guilty, we're going to
34:31
Speaker 2: look at a trial as opposed to the last big
34:34
Speaker 2: case that was solved that was a cold case that
34:36
Speaker 2: was a serial killer case, which is Golden State Killer.
34:39
Speaker 2: He eventually pled guilty. We didn't have to see a trial.
34:43
Speaker 2: So everybody on Long Island knew about this case. How
34:47
Speaker 2: are you going to be able to find a jury
34:50
Speaker 2: pool that is going to not know that much information
34:54
Speaker 2: about it? That's going to be really interesting as well.
34:56
Speaker 2: So there's a lot of hoops that we have to
34:58
Speaker 2: jump through to make sure that this guy is going
35:01
Speaker 2: to be, you know, in prison for the rest of
35:02
Speaker 2: his life.
35:03
Speaker 1: Uh, out of curiosity, do you know if his wife
35:05
Speaker 1: was in court with him when he, uh, went in?
35:08
Speaker 2: I didn't see her. I didn't see her. So, so no.
35:11
Speaker 1: And will they televise, uh, what's going to be going forward?
35:15
Speaker 2: That's a good question. I probably not. Um, they've been
35:20
Speaker 2: televising things less and less, um, You know, I think
35:24
Speaker 2: everybody learned some of the lessons from the OJ trial.
35:27
Speaker 1: I was going to say, it's not like the OJ
35:28
Speaker 1: days anymore.
35:30
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
35:31
Speaker 1: Unfortunately, because that was super interesting to watch and see
35:35
Speaker 1: how it unfolded, you know. It was.
35:37
Speaker 2: And I think, you know, I always tell people when
35:39
Speaker 2: people ask me about how did true crime get so big?
35:43
Speaker 2: And it started, it had always been there. And it
35:48
Speaker 2: actually had been in the 20s, from the 20s up until,
35:52
Speaker 2: you know, the 70s, it was more for men. If
35:55
Speaker 2: you take a look at the magazines, the true crime
35:58
Speaker 2: magazines and look at the ads, the ads were more
36:00
Speaker 2: about how to look fit and be taller and all
36:03
Speaker 2: these kind of men's things. And then you got some
36:06
Speaker 2: novels and you got a little bit of, you know,
36:09
Speaker 2: TV programs. But it was the OJ trial that really
36:12
Speaker 2: got people into it. forensics and DNA and, and that
36:16
Speaker 2: sort of thing. Then we got CSI after that, people
36:20
Speaker 2: got really into that on a fictional level. And, you know,
36:24
Speaker 2: everything was the appetite was wet. And then serial came
36:29
Speaker 2: out and then it exploded. Yeah, yeah.
36:33
Speaker 1: Um, so I want to go back to one thing
36:35
Speaker 1: you were saying, you were talking about Amber who had
36:38
Speaker 1: said who you had gotten with the information from the boyfriend, right?
36:42
Speaker 1: It was at Amber, um, about his height and his
36:44
Speaker 1: glasses and all this stuff. So she had had this
36:47
Speaker 1: interaction with him and obviously lived that time. What's the
36:51
Speaker 1: speculation of how she got back in front of him?
36:55
Speaker 2: That he, he wrote, he texted her again. Again, they had,
36:58
Speaker 2: they seemingly had all of this information before. Yeah. And
37:04
Speaker 2: this is what's angering me about this case. But he
37:07
Speaker 2: had texted her saying, that wasn't very nice. I want
37:11
Speaker 2: a credit for next time. And the next time was
37:15
Speaker 2: two days later. Apparently, he told her not to bring
37:19
Speaker 2: her cell phone. He told her, I'm not going to
37:22
Speaker 2: your house. I'm going to meet you down the street.
37:25
Speaker 2: And that was the last time her roommate saw her.
37:29
Speaker 2: was walking out of the house and then walking down
37:33
Speaker 2: to the end of the street where she got into
37:34
Speaker 2: a car. And then that was it.
37:38
Speaker 3: Wow.
37:39
Speaker 4: Okay.
37:40
Speaker 1: Very sad. Okay. So where do we go from here?
37:43
Speaker 1: What do you expect us this week? I feel like
37:46
Speaker 1: every day there's a new article being written about it.
37:49
Speaker 1: What do you see happening going forward now?
37:51
Speaker 2: You know what it is? Because this did happen on
37:53
Speaker 2: a Friday, we're going to see new information because, you know,
37:57
Speaker 2: we'll see new information come out today and tomorrow. And
38:00
Speaker 2: then there's going to be a lull and people have
38:02
Speaker 2: to understand that. And hopefully that lull is not, you know,
38:07
Speaker 2: it's a vacuum and you don't want that vacuum to
38:09
Speaker 2: be filled with, you know, rumors or innuendo.
38:14
Speaker 1: Speculation.
38:15
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
38:15
Speaker 2: Speculation. Um, people, this is the thing is that they've
38:19
Speaker 2: got to move. They've got to, um, build this case
38:22
Speaker 2: against him, which they have, you know, they had 300 subpoenas.
38:25
Speaker 2: This was a grand jury case. Kudos to the grand
38:28
Speaker 2: jury for not saying anything. Imagine being on that grand
38:31
Speaker 2: jury and no working on the long ounce serial killer
38:34
Speaker 2: case and not having to, um, you know, you know,
38:38
Speaker 2: keeping your mouth shut, which is fantastic. So, so, you know,
38:41
Speaker 2: they did everything, um, They really wanted to do everything
38:45
Speaker 2: by the book so there wasn't any mess ups. But
38:49
Speaker 2: we're just going to have to wait and see. August 1st,
38:52
Speaker 2: he comes back. We might learn a little bit more there.
38:55
Speaker 2: And then there will be these lulls. And that's what's
38:58
Speaker 2: going to happen. And I just want to make sure
39:00
Speaker 2: that we are looking at the six other victims as
39:05
Speaker 2: well as looking at this guy and where else he
39:09
Speaker 2: has been. Serial killers do just stop. But that is true.
39:13
Speaker 2: They stopped because Golden State Killer very well might have
39:17
Speaker 2: stopped because he learned about DNA. And he stopped right
39:21
Speaker 2: around the time that the first DNA case had come
39:24
Speaker 2: up in the press. That might have been the reason
39:27
Speaker 2: because he was all about self-preservation. This guy very well.
39:30
Speaker 2: might have done the same thing, might have stopped because
39:31
Speaker 2: of the same reason. Yeah. Not sure. But we've got
39:36
Speaker 2: to look at everything, every timeline of where this guy
39:40
Speaker 2: has been and anybody who had gone missing. That's the problem, though.
39:45
Speaker 2: When you're dealing with women who work in the sex
39:47
Speaker 2: work trade, a lot of times they've might travel around.
39:51
Speaker 2: They're not necessarily, um, reported as being missing. So it's
39:56
Speaker 2: going to be tough to tie him to other things, but, um,
39:59
Speaker 2: are these just his four and that's it? It's, it's
40:03
Speaker 2: kind of weird to think that he just decided when
40:05
Speaker 2: he was, you know, 40 years old, um, that he's
40:09
Speaker 2: just going to start killing people and then stop within
40:11
Speaker 2: a year. And then that's it.
40:12
Speaker 1: Right, right. So I'm sure people are going to go
40:14
Speaker 1: back now and be listening to your unraveled podcast. And
40:18
Speaker 1: you told me why you got into it to begin with.
40:21
Speaker 1: But how long did it take you to come up
40:24
Speaker 1: with that? What kind of research were you doing? You
40:26
Speaker 1: were there on site, all that.
40:27
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're there on site, me and my partner, Alexis Linkletter.
40:31
Speaker 2: We went in the middle of the pandemic, you know,
40:35
Speaker 2: because she had known the man that James Burke the
40:41
Speaker 2: disgraced police, head of the police who had kicked the
40:45
Speaker 2: FBI out of the investigation. She had known the man
40:48
Speaker 2: who he had beaten up and violated his civil rights.
40:52
Speaker 2: So getting that interview, finding out, you know, certain things
40:56
Speaker 2: about James Burke. And, you know, the reason why James
40:59
Speaker 2: Burke did beat that kid up is that kid robbed
41:03
Speaker 2: James Burke's car in front of his house in Smithtown,
41:06
Speaker 2: New York. And inside were sex toys and DVDs, pornographic DVDs.
41:15
Speaker 2: And there's a lot of speculation as to what was
41:19
Speaker 2: on those DVDs. Chris said they were, it looked like
41:22
Speaker 2: a snuff film. He had said before that it might've
41:25
Speaker 2: been child pornography. We don't know what was on there.
41:28
Speaker 2: We've never seen the back again, but there was dildos
41:33
Speaker 2: and anal beads and all this other things. Burke got
41:36
Speaker 2: so upset about that, that he went to this kid's
41:38
Speaker 2: house sent the detectives there, brought him into the state,
41:41
Speaker 2: the police station, uh, chained him to the floor and
41:44
Speaker 2: then beat the hell out of him. And that's the
41:46
Speaker 2: reason why Burke went to jail. Now Burke is out
41:48
Speaker 2: right now. So, um, you know, and people are looking at,
41:53
Speaker 2: and I certainly did too. I did. I, the first
41:56
Speaker 2: thing I did was I went and did searches for
41:58
Speaker 2: Hureman and Burke and see if they were related in
42:01
Speaker 2: any way, if they ever knew each other in any way,
42:03
Speaker 2: because that was one of the ideas is that, you know,
42:06
Speaker 2: this might've been a boys club, um, You know, we
42:10
Speaker 2: still don't know. We have no idea.
42:12
Speaker 1: And I also was curious, like if they had tried
42:14
Speaker 1: to tie him with anyone on in that area, like
42:18
Speaker 1: that they were going to their house to use their
42:20
Speaker 1: house or something like that. Why that area I find,
42:23
Speaker 1: you know, interesting. Do you have any new shows coming
42:26
Speaker 1: out in the future? Any new crimes that you're obsessed
42:29
Speaker 1: with right now that you think needs to be revisited
42:33
Speaker 1: that should be solved? Tell me about that.
42:35
Speaker 2: I have a book that's available for presale on Amazon
42:38
Speaker 2: called Killers Amidst Killers, which is about serial killing and addiction,
42:43
Speaker 2: opioid addiction in America. And that is those cases. There's
42:50
Speaker 2: a lot of them in the heartland, really, in Ohio
42:54
Speaker 2: and Illinois. And the cases that I'm looking at now,
42:57
Speaker 2: you know, there's two women that have gone missing and
43:01
Speaker 2: wound up being murdered in Portland. Similar cases to the
43:04
Speaker 2: ones that I was covering, too. So taking a look
43:07
Speaker 2: at Portland right now and seeing what's going on there.
43:10
Speaker 1: Well, I really appreciate your time. I think this story
43:13
Speaker 1: is going to get very interesting very quickly. And, you know,
43:17
Speaker 1: maybe we'll be in touch with you again. But thank
43:19
Speaker 1: you so much for being on.
43:20
Speaker 3: Great.
43:20
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me.
43:28
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for listening to Misunderstood.
43:31
Speaker 5: I'm your host, Rachel Yucatel.
43:32
Speaker 1: Please be sure to subscribe to the show and give
43:34
Speaker 1: us a five-star rating and review. You can support the
43:37
Speaker 1: show by joining our Patreon at patreon.com slash misunderstood with
43:42
Speaker 1: Rachel Yucatel. Do you have ideas for the show or
43:44
Speaker 1: want to reach out? Email us at infomisunderstoodpodcast at gmail.com.
43:50
Speaker 1: That's spelled M-I-S-S understood. Thank you so much, and I'll
43:54
Speaker 1: see you next time.
43:59
Speaker 4: The car is beautiful. Where did you end up going
44:02
Speaker 4: for it?
44:03
Speaker 3: This exclusive place that Dad has connections with. They have
44:06
Speaker 3: more cars for more dealerships than like anywhere else.
44:08
Speaker 4: You have to put me in touch. What's it called?
44:10
Speaker 5: It's Dunaidial.
44:13
Speaker 4: Where? Dunaidial.
44:15
Speaker 5: There's an accent on the E.
44:18
Speaker 4: Do you mean.
44:19
Speaker 5: Yes, I got it on Dundale Cars.
44:20
Speaker 2: Lift?
44:21
Speaker 3: Please.
44:21
Speaker 4: Are you going past Kimmage? Oh, Kimmage. No.
44:26
Speaker 3: Dundale Cars. You couldn't possibly go anywhere else.