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The Crisis in DSA: What is to be done? · Gimme a Break!

0:00
SPEAKER_00: We're here in New York City.
0:02
SPEAKER_00: Yesterday, an immigrant was shot on the neck by ICE.
0:06
SPEAKER_00: And the police that reports to Soran Mandani repressed the demonstrators.
0:12
SPEAKER_00: We have to understand that yes, this should be fired.
0:14
SPEAKER_00: But Mandani is on the side of the Democrats, on the side of the bosses.
0:19
SPEAKER_00: He's on the side of genocide in the Democratic Party.
0:22
SPEAKER_00: We have to look at labor and mobilize the working class in the fence of immigrants, Palestinians, and all of the oppressed.
0:28
SPEAKER_00: We cannot put any faith in the other progressive Democrats like Daria Lisa, who did go in the streets yesterday.
0:34
SPEAKER_00: Everyone is trying to point fingers, but it is Doran Mandani who has caused what happened in protection of the police and we have to break.
0:42
SPEAKER_00: Just break already.
0:45
SPEAKER_01: Hello and welcome to another episode of Gimme a Break, the podcast of the Just Break Already caucus in the DSA.
0:52
SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Lee Tal, here with my co-host Edward.
0:55
SPEAKER_02: Hello.
0:56
SPEAKER_01: And this is a special episode where Edward and I will discuss the current crisis in New York City, DSA.
1:03
SPEAKER_01: And it's been quite the week for Mamdanny.
1:06
SPEAKER_01: And also the New York City DSA leadership has a lot of mud on their faces.
1:11
SPEAKER_01: The audio you heard at the beginning is of JBA Comrade Monica at Friday's rally against ICE, which shot a Dominican immigrant, Oscar Belgal.
1:21
SPEAKER_01: He was shot while his five-year-old son was in the car.
1:24
SPEAKER_01: We'll start discussing ICE and Mamdani's complicity.
1:28
SPEAKER_01: And then we'll get into Zoran's boosting of the Zionist forces with his 30 million quote quote fighting anti-Semitism pledge.
1:36
SPEAKER_01: And then we'll get to the pro-Palestine anti-genocide protests on October 7th and the repression by the New York City DSA steering committee, forcing YDSA to unendorse this protest, which really hearkened back to the DSA's own liberal Zionist past in a desperate attempt to protect Mamdani.
1:56
SPEAKER_01: The ICE shooting happened on the streets of Marble Hill in the Bronx.
2:00
SPEAKER_01: Oscar Belgal was taken to a nearby hospital as anti-ICE protesters gathered outside.
2:06
SPEAKER_01: Large battalions of NYPD were deployed by Mamdani and Tish to both repress the protesters and to ensure that ICE could take Oscar Belgal out of the hospital and detain him in an ICE dungeon at MDC in Brooklyn, which is the same dungeon Maduro is being held in.
2:25
SPEAKER_01: Over 70 protesters were arrested.
2:27
SPEAKER_01: So not much hope and change here from our quote socialist mayor.
2:31
SPEAKER_01: A few months ago, there was quite a bit of criticism, correctly, at Mamdani's blooming bromance with Trump, who many DSAers will say is a fascist.
2:41
SPEAKER_01: And Grace Mauser, the co-chair of New York City DSA, was on a podcast a few months ago.
2:47
SPEAKER_01: And she claimed that these meetings meant that Trump wasn't going to do to New York City what he did to Minneapolis and Los Angeles.
2:55
SPEAKER_01: Like the bromance was going to protect us from ICE.
2:58
SPEAKER_01: But as we know with this shooting, ICE has been in New York City using different tactics for sure.
3:05
SPEAKER_01: But there's been a huge increase in ICE roundups all over the country.
3:09
SPEAKER_01: In July, ICE arrested 50,000 immigrants, and thousands have been, quote, quietly terrorized and pulled over and arrested in New York City.
3:18
SPEAKER_01: I read that a New York City audit showed a 71% increase in ICE arrests here during the first 15 months of Trump's second administration.
3:28
SPEAKER_01: So this has been happening, and NYPD and Mamdani have been a complicit.
3:34
SPEAKER_01: But with this shooting, ICE terror is out in the open and it's ignited a lot of anger and also exposed Mamdani's role here.
3:41
SPEAKER_01: The night of the shooting, Mamdani gave a press conference with Tish, his police commissioner.
3:47
SPEAKER_01: He described how he'd been on the phone with Trump trying to unsuccessfully negotiate release.
3:53
SPEAKER_01: Of course, at the same time, his NYPD is stopping protesters from blocking the ICE vehicles that were abducting Oscar Belgal from the hospital.
4:03
SPEAKER_01: And at the press conference, Tish goes on to give Belgal's rap sheet criminalizing him.
4:07
SPEAKER_01: And at the same time, you have protesters chanting, Mam Dani is complicit.
4:12
SPEAKER_01: Mam Dani is complicit as he is speaking.
4:16
SPEAKER_01: So what is the New York City DSA's response to this?
4:19
SPEAKER_01: For sure they're saving face, but what what do you think, Edward?
4:22
SPEAKER_01: What do you think they're doing here?
4:24
SPEAKER_02: Saving face is a good way to describe it.
4:25
SPEAKER_02: I think they're he's in coming off of everything earlier this week around October 7th and Zionism.
4:33
SPEAKER_02: And this is sort of like a back-to-back thing, right?
4:35
SPEAKER_02: This explosion over the ICE shooting in the Bronx.
4:39
SPEAKER_02: I think there was a there was a tweet from NYCDSA that said, quote, ICE is a terrorist agency that must be expelled from New York City and abolished.
4:46
SPEAKER_02: That was in a press release they put out on Friday.
4:49
SPEAKER_02: They also said Jessica Tisch must get ICE out of New York and the NYPD and end NYPD complicity with these terrorists.
4:56
SPEAKER_02: If the commissioner can't put a stop to these injustices, she must be fired.
5:00
SPEAKER_02: End quote.
5:01
SPEAKER_02: Which is pretty rich given that NYC DSA up until this point has totally defended Zoran on retaining Tish as police commissioner, while elements of the DSA left had, since Mamdani took office, been calling on him to fire Tish.
5:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
5:20
SPEAKER_02: And so it's sort of like, okay, maybe we'll concede a little bit on Tish, but they made it completely conditional.
5:25
SPEAKER_02: Like, what are you talking about if she doesn't get isolated?
5:28
SPEAKER_02: What fire herself?
5:30
SPEAKER_02: Right, exactly.
5:31
SPEAKER_02: Well, and the funny thing about this is there was also the statement from Congresswoman to be Darylisa Avila Chevalier, where she says Tish should be fired.
5:39
SPEAKER_02: And I saw it was, I think it was Dropside News had quoted the Mam Dani administration as saying she's staying on.
5:45
SPEAKER_02: There's no plans to remove her as police commissioner.
5:47
SPEAKER_02: So MYC DSA trying to posture a little bit to save face.
5:52
SPEAKER_01: Take the heat off Mam Dani, right?
5:54
SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
5:55
SPEAKER_02: Everything is being put on Tish.
5:56
SPEAKER_02: It's sort of like how the Democrats roll out the Benjamin Yetanyahoo's government kind of deal.
6:02
SPEAKER_02: It's like the New York City version of that, right?
6:04
SPEAKER_02: Oh, it's Tish's police department.
6:06
SPEAKER_02: So Tish answers to Mom Dani.
6:07
SPEAKER_02: He's the mayor.
6:08
SPEAKER_02: You have Grace Mauser, NYC DSA co-chair.
6:12
SPEAKER_02: She's saying things like, Oh, DSA's been giving the mayor a lot of grace for the struggles of what it means to govern the city.
6:18
SPEAKER_02: And she's had 10 months.
6:20
SPEAKER_02: She's saying this about Tish.
6:21
SPEAKER_02: We've tried to give space, but we'd like to see results at this point.
6:24
SPEAKER_02: And it's like we've seen the results.
6:26
SPEAKER_02: It wasn't very long after he took office that NYPD shot Jabez Chakra Bordi, right?
6:31
SPEAKER_02: Like that was pretty quick into the Mamdani administration.
6:35
SPEAKER_02: Or the recent protests outside the UN where SRG was there as well.
6:39
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, for sure.
6:40
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that yeah.
6:42
SPEAKER_02: They clearly realize there is now a problem, and this is really the shine is coming off Mam Dani in a really big, dramatic and open way with these back-to-back crises for his administration.
6:56
SPEAKER_02: So they're really trying to get in there and try to get out ahead of it and try to channel everything back into something they feel like they have a better handle on.
7:04
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
7:05
SPEAKER_01: Just to go back to New York City DSA's statement, it's like Jessica Tisch must get ice out of New York and NYPD complicity with these terrorists.
7:13
SPEAKER_01: But like the NYPD are the terrorists too.
7:15
SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, if the commissioner can't put a stop to these injustices, the commissioner is the architect of the injustices in the city that happened on the regular.
7:26
SPEAKER_01: It's really such a cover-up of the NYPD and Tish, actually.
7:31
SPEAKER_01: But they're doing that because they're not going to say Tish should go.
7:35
SPEAKER_01: Like Daria Lisa can play that role.
7:37
SPEAKER_01: She's also not even been like elected yet, fully, whatever.
7:40
SPEAKER_01: She's not in Congress.
7:42
SPEAKER_01: She can do that.
7:43
SPEAKER_01: But for the New York City DSA, their main thing is trying to protect Zoran's image as some kind of a fighter for immigrants and against ICE.
7:53
SPEAKER_01: You just can't reconcile that image with what he's been doing.
7:56
SPEAKER_01: It's just not possible.
7:58
SPEAKER_01: They're gonna just divert it from that discussion and make everything about Jessica Tisch and also about how amazing Daria Lisa is as the DSA elected in the area.
8:10
SPEAKER_01: So let's talk about Daria Lisa, right?
8:12
SPEAKER_01: She was in the streets that night.
8:14
SPEAKER_01: She was brutalized by the cops.
8:15
SPEAKER_01: There's video showing her being shoved to the ground.
8:18
SPEAKER_01: And she put out a statement that was pretty hardcore against the New York PD's protection of what she called the ICE militia.
8:25
SPEAKER_01: And she called on Tish to step down, as we said.
8:28
SPEAKER_01: But again, what did she not mention in her statement?
8:32
SPEAKER_01: She did not mention Mom Donnie.
8:34
SPEAKER_01: So there's that.
8:35
SPEAKER_01: And there's really this like, is she gonna be the new Democrat that's gonna save us from ICE terror?
8:41
SPEAKER_01: So the DSA right is really, especially in New York City, is really bolstering her as the good one who's gonna save us.
8:50
SPEAKER_01: But why are they promoting her?
8:51
SPEAKER_01: These are the same people that are covering for Mom Donnie.
8:54
SPEAKER_01: That's why they're doing it.
8:55
SPEAKER_01: And so it's really important that people don't get fooled yet again.
9:00
SPEAKER_01: What the protesters said that night is correct.
9:02
SPEAKER_01: Mam Dani is complicit.
9:04
SPEAKER_01: And her statement will not say that.
9:06
SPEAKER_01: And the New York City DSA will not say that.
9:08
SPEAKER_01: If you see videos, people are posting these online, even Mam Dani, like I don't know, maybe it was a year ago or two.
9:13
SPEAKER_01: He's screaming at Homan, the, you know, the ice czart.
9:16
SPEAKER_01: And he's screaming at him and shouting, and he's the fighter against ice, Mamdanny, like a year ago, whatever.
9:22
SPEAKER_01: That's what Dara Lisa is right now, and that's how she's gonna get credit.
9:26
SPEAKER_01: But what is she gonna do when she's actually in Congress?
9:29
SPEAKER_01: It's very convenient for her to be kind of the radical right now and play that role because they need that right now, really.
9:36
SPEAKER_02: The other thing that brings to mind is all the AOC stunts back in the day, right?
9:40
SPEAKER_02: She camped out in Nancy Pelosi's office or something like that.
9:43
SPEAKER_02: And there was the whole going to the border stuff.
9:46
SPEAKER_02: Who is Daria Lisa?
9:47
SPEAKER_02: Well, she's Zoran in about six months, right?
9:51
SPEAKER_02: This is the reality because as long as you're within this Democratic Party, you can say whatever you want.
9:56
SPEAKER_02: But at the end of the day, that's where your bread is buttered, and that's the direction you're going to go in if you want to have any kind of political career within this organization.
10:03
SPEAKER_02: And that's exactly what's happened time and time and time again with these DSA Democrat elected.
10:09
SPEAKER_01: And she was the one, remember, she had had all these tweets when she was running.
10:14
SPEAKER_01: And I think it was like the fuck Kamala Harris, and you know, and then she made very clear, yeah, she made very clear that she voted for Kamala Harris.
10:24
SPEAKER_01: Like this, like, like, you know, she's pro-Palestine, Darryl Lisa.
10:28
SPEAKER_01: I don't think so.
10:29
SPEAKER_01: This was like literally the Democrats are doing it.
10:32
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, she knows there are red lines.
10:34
SPEAKER_01: And honestly, firing Tish is not a red line in that way.
10:37
SPEAKER_01: People are pointing out how Mom Dani is one of the only incoming mayors that didn't get a new police chief.
10:43
SPEAKER_01: But I mean, obviously, Mom Dani is is being very calculated in how he's carrying out his uh attempts at bread and butter politics.
10:52
SPEAKER_01: Of course, we're definitely for firing Tish, but we don't think that there's really better police chief commission out there.
10:58
SPEAKER_01: We would be like, well, a real socialist would put someone in there who would open all the police archives and jail all the killer cops, right?
11:04
SPEAKER_01: That's not anybody who's gonna replace Tish.
11:07
SPEAKER_01: But it would be good if she was fired.
11:09
SPEAKER_01: But for him, it's like, why would he do that?
11:11
SPEAKER_02: Right.
11:12
SPEAKER_01: They're working very well together as far as the story goes to everyone.
11:17
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
11:18
SPEAKER_02: Right.
11:18
SPEAKER_02: I was just gonna say on that note, all the Tish stuff, of course, goes back to the beginning of the Mamdani mayoralty, where within our lifetime put on this petition, all of the DSA Left caucuses, ourselves included, signed this petition that was put forward by Within Our Lifetime demanding Tish's firing.
11:38
SPEAKER_02: But there wasn't a follow-through from the DSA Left to fight within DSA to push forward.
11:44
SPEAKER_01: No resolution, nothing.
11:46
SPEAKER_02: Right.
11:47
SPEAKER_02: Right.
11:47
SPEAKER_02: Even people who signed it would say things like, Oh, mom daddy didn't have a choice.
11:51
SPEAKER_02: Right.
11:52
SPEAKER_02: There needed to be a real movement that was strong enough to back him up and firing her.
11:57
SPEAKER_02: Like you say, I mean, he is a very Machiavellian sort of Yeah.
12:01
SPEAKER_02: That might be an insult to Machiavelli, but like it's sort of you know, he's very slick, he's very calculated.
12:08
SPEAKER_02: He knows what he's doing here, right?
12:09
SPEAKER_02: He wants peace with the MYPD so he can get his little penny ante reforms through.
12:14
SPEAKER_02: But this is sort of the general problem with the DSA left.
12:18
SPEAKER_02: There's all these petitions, there's all these statements, there's all this anger, but then it just completely dissipates because the moment they even make it like even the smallest efforts, like, oh, we're gonna challenge the DSA right on this, the right's like, oh, well, you know what, we're gonna take our ball and go home.
12:36
SPEAKER_02: And the left's like, oh, no, no, no, we can't we can't do anything without you.
12:39
SPEAKER_02: So they're not willing to actually make a real fight because at the end of the day, they share the same fundamental political program, which is elect people on the Democratic Party ballot line.
12:49
SPEAKER_02: Then it becomes like a question of rhetoric and a question of how best to sell this program to the public.
12:55
SPEAKER_02: And that's really the the real main dividing line between right and left and the DSA.
13:00
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
13:00
SPEAKER_01: And I think with the NYPD in in particular, there's ice terror that we've been seeing, but also the NYPD terror machine has gone on and and is as bad or whatever as ever under Bombani.
13:12
SPEAKER_01: And and that's the other thing that's definitely not a priority campaign to hold them accountable, to fire Tish, to jail the killer cops.
13:21
SPEAKER_01: There's so many in New York City.
13:23
SPEAKER_01: Tish, I think it was last week as well, came out that Tish allowed the cop that killed 19-year-old Wynne Rosario, the cop shot him dead in his own home.
13:33
SPEAKER_01: She let him retire with no discipline.
13:35
SPEAKER_01: So this guy just murdered Wynne Rosario and there's nothing.
13:38
SPEAKER_01: There's been a lot of in the news here, there's been a lot of recent data from organizations like Court Watch or Legal Aid Society that have shown that the arrests and summonses for low-level, nonviolent and quote, quality of life offenses remain as high or higher under Ramdani than under previous administration.
13:57
SPEAKER_01: So the whole hated broken windows policy, all of that is still going on.
14:01
SPEAKER_01: And who that targets is mostly black and brown New Yorkers.
14:05
SPEAKER_01: And no one's talking about it, you know?
14:07
SPEAKER_01: And so that's the other thing.
14:09
SPEAKER_01: You can't just make it the problem with Tish is she's not reigning Iceland.
14:13
SPEAKER_01: No, she like represents the most vicious armed fist in the city.
14:18
SPEAKER_01: That's what she is.
14:19
SPEAKER_01: That's the job is to repress black and brown people and the working class.
14:23
SPEAKER_02: Right.
14:23
SPEAKER_02: And not only are they like not making it a priority, they're like actively portraying any concern around it.
14:34
SPEAKER_02: That was nuts that we ever were critical of the police or uh any of that stuff back from 2020.
14:40
SPEAKER_02: They're actively doing their best to make clear to everyone in the world that we love the cops, we're gonna play ball.
14:46
SPEAKER_01: Totally, yeah.
14:47
SPEAKER_01: All right, so let's talk about Palestine and uh Zoran's biggest capitulation to the Zionists yet.
14:53
SPEAKER_01: So on September 29th, the New York City Mayor's Office released a 33-page plan titled Tackling Hate, the Mamdani Administration's Strategy to Combat Anti-Semitism.
15:06
SPEAKER_01: And this document was hailed by Mamdani as the nation's first ever municipal strategy to combat anti-Semitism.
15:13
SPEAKER_01: And he has pledged and is spending$30 million.
15:17
SPEAKER_01: And what this money goes mostly to Zionists' pro-genocide forces.
15:22
SPEAKER_01: So there was a really useful expose on this that two DS Airs in Philadelphia, uh, James Ray and Jordan Duran, put out.
15:30
SPEAKER_01: And it really did a useful service.
15:31
SPEAKER_01: Their article is called An Anti-Palestine Anti-Semitism Plan.
15:35
SPEAKER_01: And they just kind of break down what all the examples that are listed in there of anti-Semitic hate crimes.
15:42
SPEAKER_01: A lot of it is like anti-Zionist protest.
15:46
SPEAKER_01: That said, what Israel has done in the genocide has led to a rise in anti-Semitic ideology.
15:52
SPEAKER_01: And this is, of course, going to happen when the Zionists equate their actions as on behalf of all Jews.
15:58
SPEAKER_01: But I'll tell you, if you want to combat the false idea that Jews control America, you don't give$30 million to Zionist organizations.
16:08
SPEAKER_01: Right.
16:08
SPEAKER_01: Right?
16:09
SPEAKER_01: So actually, his campaign both promotes the Zionist butchers and perpetuates anti-Semitic crap.
16:15
SPEAKER_01: Why do you think he's doing this?
16:17
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean it's like you can work with me.
16:19
SPEAKER_02: I will defend the interests of the billionaires.
16:21
SPEAKER_02: I will do whatever Wall Street wants.
16:23
SPEAKER_02: That's the only thing.
16:24
SPEAKER_02: This is a red line for the American bourgeoisie.
16:26
SPEAKER_02: Zionism, support for Israel is the red line you cannot violate if you want to stay in the good graces of the ruling class in this country.
16:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
16:37
SPEAKER_02: So I mean, I think that's the long and short of it, right?
16:40
SPEAKER_02: He's proving where he stands.
16:42
SPEAKER_02: And it's not new, right?
16:43
SPEAKER_02: He has continually moved away from any of the pro-Palestine stuff he had said in the past, right?
16:49
SPEAKER_02: You know, there's the clip that's going around Twitter where he's talking about like the boot of the NYPD is laced with I forget the exact quote.
16:56
SPEAKER_02: You know, it's a good quote, but what happened to this guy?
16:58
SPEAKER_02: I mean, at the beginning of his campaign last year, he was defending globalized the intifada, and then he went on TV and was like, Oh, I don't stand by that.
17:06
SPEAKER_02: It's continuous because in order to move up to the city.
17:10
SPEAKER_01: I think he said the New York PD's boots are laced by the IDF.
17:14
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
17:15
SPEAKER_02: You know, and it's yeah, right, which you'd never hear him say today, of course.
17:22
SPEAKER_01: Well, it's it's his NYPD now.
17:24
SPEAKER_02: Right, exactly.
17:25
SPEAKER_02: I guess he's lacing the boots.
17:28
SPEAKER_02: But yeah, it's a pledge of allegiance to Wall Street, the Democratic Party, yeah, uh, the American ruling class.
17:34
SPEAKER_01: Zionism is a big red line, right?
17:37
SPEAKER_01: You have to support Zionism.
17:39
SPEAKER_01: You have to support the cops.
17:41
SPEAKER_01: That's another red line that that he's not gonna cross.
17:44
SPEAKER_01: And also, like in conflicts, which we've seen and we've discussed on this podcast a number of times, whether it's No More 24, the nurses strike, Long Island Railroad strike, in every case, he makes it very clear that he's on the boss's side.
17:59
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
17:59
SPEAKER_01: So he just wants a rent freeze.
18:01
SPEAKER_01: He just wants a free bus, but he'll do whatever it takes so he can do that.
18:05
SPEAKER_02: Right.
18:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
18:06
SPEAKER_01: So on October 7th, he attends a Zionist vigil with Israelis for peace, which is connected to the liberal Zionist group in Israel called Standing Together.
18:18
SPEAKER_01: These people do not defend the Palestine.
18:21
SPEAKER_01: They have grossly equated Netanyahu and Yao Yah Sinwar, which was Hamas's leader that Israel assassinated.
18:29
SPEAKER_01: This group in the past said that both were, quote, cynical politicians who do not care about human lives.
18:35
SPEAKER_01: So this is who Zoran is choosing to be with at a vigil going into year four of genocide against the Palestinians.
18:43
SPEAKER_01: The protesters marched from City Hall to the vigil, which was held in Union Square Park, and they were chanting, traitor, traitor, come on out.
18:53
SPEAKER_01: You sold all your people out.
18:55
SPEAKER_01: I thought they they they had a lot of good chants in the last few days.
18:59
SPEAKER_01: But it really shows just how much people on the left who really had a lot of illusions in Mamdani as being like the first pro-Palestine mayor, which is like a big deal if that was true in New York City, but it's not.
19:15
SPEAKER_01: And it's even worse than that.
19:17
SPEAKER_01: Activists and pro-Palestine leftists are definitely feel very betrayed right now.
19:23
SPEAKER_02: Then you have these right-wingers in the DSA who are just announcing the protesters are some cope from a lot of the DSA leftists to like, oh, maybe I want to use those chants or whatever, especially the ones where people are saying Lam Dani is complicit in genocide.
19:38
SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's true.
19:38
SPEAKER_02: If you're a Democrat, you are complicit in this, right?
19:41
SPEAKER_02: This is a party that funded, armed, set in motion, the genocide in Gaza, and there is like no way you can be anti-Zionist and a Democrat.
19:51
SPEAKER_02: You can't serve two masters.
19:52
SPEAKER_01: Right.
19:53
SPEAKER_02: Then there's the everything that happened with YDSA in New York.
19:57
SPEAKER_01: Right.
19:58
SPEAKER_01: Like So let's get into that.
19:59
SPEAKER_01: So what happened?
20:00
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
20:01
SPEAKER_02: So basically, you know, the protest that was going on at City Hall that within our lifetime called, various YDSA chapters endorsed the demonstration.
20:11
SPEAKER_02: Uh NYC YDSA as a whole also endorsed.
20:15
SPEAKER_02: But just before that happened, uh the NYC DSA Steering Committee intervened very bureaucratically.
20:22
SPEAKER_02: They threatened to remove the funding and YDSA's voice on the DSA Steering Committee.
20:26
SPEAKER_02: There was a bunch of pressure put on YDSA, and so of course NYC YDSA ended up capitulating.
20:32
SPEAKER_02: They removed their endorsement.
20:33
SPEAKER_02: Although, to their credit, the YDSA chapters at Hunter, Lehman, City College, New School, and Stuyvesant maintained their endorsements.
20:40
SPEAKER_02: And they put out a statement, I believe it was yesterday, or yeah, yesterday, the day before, um, where they were protesting what the steering committee had done.
20:49
SPEAKER_02: There's a lot of people saying, oh, they weren't threatened or whatever.
20:51
SPEAKER_02: And it's like, come on.
20:52
SPEAKER_01: Grace Mauser called them, literally called the DSA.
20:56
SPEAKER_01: Like, this is And told them, take your name off this.
20:58
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
20:58
SPEAKER_01: You have two heads, co-chairs of the New York City DSA.
21:02
SPEAKER_02: Right.
21:02
SPEAKER_01: And one of them literally phoned them personally and was like, you need to not do this and stop this or else.
21:09
SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's pretty much Yeah.
21:11
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I don't know what else you can call that besides right leadership who are Toron's representatives.
21:16
SPEAKER_02: Let's be real, giving them a call and saying, drop this shit.
21:19
SPEAKER_02: Um but since then, a lot of the left caucuses are saying, oh, we stand with YDSA.
21:23
SPEAKER_02: But in terms of what is actually posed here, it's like, I don't know, the steering committee should be removed.
21:29
SPEAKER_02: Like you should have a different steering committee.
21:31
SPEAKER_02: They're gonna intervene in this way, crush the youth.
21:33
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, taking principles.
21:35
SPEAKER_01: Crushing democracy in New York City DSA.
21:38
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
21:39
SPEAKER_01: Stick to that.
21:39
SPEAKER_01: You guys are so good at that.
21:41
SPEAKER_01: Just do that.
21:42
SPEAKER_01: But now you're going into the youth organization and you're crushing whatever militant spirit they have, you know.
21:49
SPEAKER_01: I'm sure it violates so many bylaws.
21:52
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
21:52
SPEAKER_01: Like, like that's not okay.
21:54
SPEAKER_01: It's not allowed, is it?
21:56
SPEAKER_01: Even within their rules?
21:58
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
21:59
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'm not.
22:01
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I know that they're trying to cover their asses basically by saying that they just nicely called them and told them it's a bad look, take it off.
22:12
SPEAKER_01: And then after nicely being told that, they had a vote, which I think was kind of split five to three.
22:19
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
22:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
22:20
SPEAKER_01: And decided to remove their endorsement.
22:22
SPEAKER_01: I guess that's how they cover their asses, that it was not a coercion thing and that there were no threats.
22:29
SPEAKER_01: The statement steering put out, like somebody's lying, right?
22:33
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
22:33
SPEAKER_02: And I would wager it's not the youth.
22:36
SPEAKER_01: No, no, because what why do they why would they have to lie about this?
22:39
SPEAKER_02: Right.
22:40
SPEAKER_01: You know, it's just a real stain.
22:42
SPEAKER_01: It looks really terrible that the leadership did this.
22:44
SPEAKER_01: But I think they're very desperate to try to clean up what's happening.
22:48
SPEAKER_01: And I gathered that at the rally today that somebody from New York City steering spoke.
22:54
SPEAKER_01: And they were kind of like, there's only so much Mom Donnie can do.
22:57
SPEAKER_01: He's against ice.
22:58
SPEAKER_01: And I feel like somebody said something about Tish too.
23:01
SPEAKER_01: Kind of like that.
23:01
SPEAKER_01: Like, there's only so much she can do with ice.
23:04
SPEAKER_01: And then they're pushing this Curb Act, which is supposed to limit ice in the city and New York PD with ice.
23:11
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, I thought that was what the sanctuary city was.
23:14
SPEAKER_01: So it's just another way to take it off of Mom Donnie and take it off of Tish and be like, oh the problem is we don't have this law that we're gonna pass now.
23:24
SPEAKER_01: And that's what's gonna protect us.
23:26
SPEAKER_01: That's the answer for everything with the DSA right now.
23:28
SPEAKER_01: It's all electoralism, it's all passing X, Y, or Z resolution, it has nothing to do with the working class and mobilizing the working class in its own defense right now.
23:39
SPEAKER_01: You know, it's like, oh, if Zoran's really nice with Trump, then he's not gonna be bad to us.
23:44
SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
23:44
SPEAKER_01: What does that do?
23:45
SPEAKER_01: That just disarms immigrants and it disarms the working class with false hope that that they're safe here and they're not.
23:52
SPEAKER_01: And everyone knows it.
23:54
SPEAKER_02: It's also really something, you know, it's like, oh, Zoran can't do X, Zoran can't do Y, Zoran can't do Z.
23:59
SPEAKER_02: None of that, none of that stuff applies to Trump, right?
24:01
SPEAKER_02: He's like, that rule doesn't work, fuck it.
24:03
SPEAKER_02: We're gonna do whatever we want.
24:04
SPEAKER_02: It's sort of like these DSAers have this very, and I mean it comes, it's in line with what you're saying, that electoralist bourgeois passing laws in the bourgeois government and not trying to mobilize the working class kind of stuff, right?
24:17
SPEAKER_02: It's very legalistic, oh, we gotta play by the rules.
24:20
SPEAKER_02: Well, nobody's doing that.
24:21
SPEAKER_02: And that's not how you're actually going to defend yourselves from ICE or defend Palestine.
24:26
SPEAKER_02: You have to move the working class and the oppressed to action.
24:29
SPEAKER_02: And clearly, this is not the program that that they want, right?
24:32
SPEAKER_02: If we're gonna manage New York City on behalf of Wall Street and try to squeeze some reforms out here and there, which don't resolve any of the underlying issues in the process.
24:43
SPEAKER_01: I guess wrap up.
24:45
SPEAKER_01: When Mamdani was running, you had a number of left groups, aside from DSA, left groups like uh Socialist Alternative, other groups that that supported Mamdani, right?
24:56
SPEAKER_01: That voted, called for a vote to him.
24:58
SPEAKER_01: You had other groups that maybe didn't call for a vote to him, but they definitely built up this image of this working class mass movement around him, which was not true, that his election represented this rise in working class consciousness.
25:14
SPEAKER_01: So we said at the time that the left has to have criteria when giving support to a candidate.
25:21
SPEAKER_01: We put out a statement.
25:23
SPEAKER_01: It was called How to Avoid Another AOC Situation Ship.
25:27
SPEAKER_01: We put it out for the 2025 uh DSA National Convention, which, as we all know, that convention did not support a resolution for a clean break.
25:37
SPEAKER_01: We would be in a very different situation right now, had it.
25:40
SPEAKER_01: But they did pass an anti-Zionist resolution, RS-22, which has been violated more times than I can count.
25:49
SPEAKER_01: But our criteria was very basic, no financing from or affiliation with the Dems, oppose Zionism, and open the police archives for black liberation.
26:00
SPEAKER_01: And so in that article, we wrote, quote, the DSA has a type.
26:04
SPEAKER_01: And if DSA don't wake up and spot the red flags, they are destined to fall into the same toxic relationship with Zoran, who is walking down AOC's path.
26:16
SPEAKER_01: Even while he taps into widespread anger over NYC's sky high cost of living, Zoran has declared his commitment to reviving the Democrats and his willingness to work with the billionaires, the very things that made AOC a sellout.
26:31
SPEAKER_01: This cannot be accepted if we are actually going to advance the cause of socialism.
26:37
SPEAKER_01: I think that really is totally what we are seeing right now.
26:41
SPEAKER_01: And I think even worse, you have a bunch of chapters of DSA supporting AOC currently for president.
26:48
SPEAKER_01: We've talked about that before on the show.
26:51
SPEAKER_01: You have the LA branch endorsing Nithya Rahman, who is a Zionist.
26:57
SPEAKER_01: You had a recent NPC meeting where they refused to censor this to unendorse her, you know?
27:03
SPEAKER_01: So they really just don't care, like literally throwing our S22 out the window.
27:08
SPEAKER_01: Like they do not care.
27:10
SPEAKER_01: So these contradictions are just really coming to a head right now.
27:14
SPEAKER_01: I don't know if you want to speak of what you've seen of the DSA left in the last few days on Mom Donnie, on how how are they posturing right now?
27:23
SPEAKER_01: Everyone's very critical on the DSA left, but what do they say they're gonna do about it?
27:27
SPEAKER_02: I think for the most part, what I've seen is, oh, we have to be more willing to be to act as an opposition, which is not a promising start given that it's been almost a year at this point since this guy's been in office.
27:40
SPEAKER_02: And there have been blips of opposition here and there, right?
27:43
SPEAKER_02: Like mug was pretty big into the no more 24 stuff until they weren't.
27:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
27:49
SPEAKER_02: You know, Emerge has been arguing about the Tish stuff and the Palestine stuff.
27:54
SPEAKER_02: You know, they put out they put out a statement the other day on Palestine and the need to like enforce R22.
28:01
SPEAKER_02: Well, there was a supposedly left-wing majority on the NPC until quite recently, when I think with the with the YDSA representatives, now it's more of a right-wing majority again.
28:13
SPEAKER_02: But sure, you should be in opposition.
28:15
SPEAKER_02: You should have been in opposition since the beginning here.
28:17
SPEAKER_02: But like duh.
28:18
SPEAKER_02: Right.
28:19
SPEAKER_02: Yes, exactly.
28:20
SPEAKER_01: Like the right has been in opposition to you.
28:23
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
28:24
SPEAKER_02: They, you know, they're real opposition.
28:26
SPEAKER_02: Like when they're in the opposition, they like act like an opposition, which is like they tried to take power back.
28:31
SPEAKER_02: Right.
28:31
SPEAKER_02: You know, they they're like, you know what, we're not gonna be held back by anything.
28:35
SPEAKER_02: When they lost the vote on endorsing Harris, they just started their own campaign to endorse Harris.
28:40
SPEAKER_02: If you actually care about any of the socialist principles you claim to stand for, this is the kind of stuff you gotta do.
28:46
SPEAKER_02: You gotta take this fight to its conclusion within DSA.
28:49
SPEAKER_02: It has to go beyond like criticism, right?
28:51
SPEAKER_02: This is sort of the limit of the DSA left's so-called opposition, is how we're critical of an action Zoran has taken here or there.
28:58
SPEAKER_02: We're critical of some of the statements made by some of the electeds, but there hasn't been any opposition from the only real opposition there has been to the course of DSA has been like really what we've been trying to organize with the United Front for the Clean Break over the last few months between ourselves, Labor Milita, and ISAR.
29:15
SPEAKER_02: There hasn't been these bigger left caucuses, have not taken these fights up.
29:19
SPEAKER_02: This is really pose, like now.
29:21
SPEAKER_02: There's a crisis right now, and if the left and the DSA wants to actually um write the ship, this is the time to actually act like an opposition.
29:32
SPEAKER_02: Instead of just putting out petitions or statements about how mad you are, sure, there's a place for petitions, there's a place for resolutions, but there has to be a concerted effort to implement them, to make it not just a piece of paper, which is kind of worthless, but actually implement these things that you say you want to fight for.
29:48
SPEAKER_02: Until that happens, the right is going to keep winning these fights, and they're gonna either drive the left out of the organization or take the money and run to support AOC 2028.
29:57
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
29:58
SPEAKER_02: But this is the reality.
29:59
SPEAKER_01: It's like Yeah, and they have to see how much damage this is doing to the name of socialism.
30:05
SPEAKER_01: This is very clear.
30:06
SPEAKER_01: There has to be lessons learned.
30:08
SPEAKER_01: We have to discuss how are we gonna fight against demoralization over the situation and how do we turn the anger into constructive force to build a socialist movement that we really need in this country, you know?
30:21
SPEAKER_01: And so it's like, why are people like, oh, I'm so confused.
30:24
SPEAKER_01: Why is he doing these things?
30:25
SPEAKER_01: It's because he's a Democrat and AOC does the things she does because she's a Democrat.
30:32
SPEAKER_01: It's very clear if you open your eyes, this is what's going on.
30:36
SPEAKER_01: And so to advance any of these struggles, defense of immigrants, Palestine, the working class, it has got to be based on a clean break from this party of genocide and capitalist misery.
30:51
SPEAKER_01: That is what we are trying to do with the United Front for a clean break.
30:55
SPEAKER_01: I would really encourage anyone who is listening who's fed up with what is going on and is tired of these sellouts and what Mondani and IOC have been very open about, which is rehabilitating this party.
31:09
SPEAKER_01: If you don't want to do that, if that's not why you joined DSA or why you consider yourself a socialist, you don't have to do that.
31:16
SPEAKER_01: You can join us, you can be part of this united front and try to actually be a real poll to split this organization on class lines and get the capitalists out.
31:26
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
31:27
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
31:28
SPEAKER_02: All right.
31:28
SPEAKER_02: I think that about concludes this special episode of Give Me a Break.
31:32
SPEAKER_02: Uh, you can find all our resolutions, petitions, statements, and everything we've been up to lately at our Linktree, which you can find at linktree.com slash DSA underscore just break already.
31:42
SPEAKER_02: You can also follow us on X at Clean Break Now and on Instagram at DSA underscore just break already.
31:48
SPEAKER_02: As Lee Tal mentioned, the Just Break Already caucus is part of the United Front for Clean Break, along with our comrades in Labor Militant and International Socialist Alternative Revolutionary.
31:58
SPEAKER_02: You can check out our points of unity on on the UFCB social media, which you can find on Instagram and X at DSA the number four, a clean break.
32:09
SPEAKER_02: As always, we love to get your love letters, hate mail, comments, criticisms, whatever you got.
32:13
SPEAKER_02: We read them and try to respond to all the ones we get.
32:16
SPEAKER_02: We'd love to have comrades from other DSA Left Caucuses on to debate the way forward for DSA.
32:20
SPEAKER_02: If you'd be interested in joining us for one, shoot us a DM.
32:23
SPEAKER_02: Our DMs are always open.
32:25
SPEAKER_02: All right.
32:26
SPEAKER_02: I think that's it.
32:27
SPEAKER_01: All right.
32:28
SPEAKER_01: Till next time.
32:29
SPEAKER_02: Till next time.
32:30
SPEAKER_01: Bye.
32:31
SPEAKER_02: Bye.