Latest / WOC and Allies: Business and Career Realtalk with Elaine Lou Cartas / 38. Part 2. One Year Later, How I Became Less Dependent on Social Media with Monica Schrock

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38. Part 2. One Year Later, How I Became Less Dependent on Social Media with Monica Schrock · WOC and Allies: Business and Career Realtalk with Elaine Lou Cartas

0:00
SPEAKER_01: Social media.
0:02
SPEAKER_01: Do you love it?
0:03
SPEAKER_01: Or you kind of hate it.
0:06
SPEAKER_01: So maybe like you in 2020, 2021 specifically, I started feeling burnt out from social media because of the pandemic.
0:16
SPEAKER_01: We're looking at our phones the whole time.
0:19
SPEAKER_01: See, I remember when I started my business back in 2017.
0:22
SPEAKER_01: I used to do Facebook and IG lives every single day.
0:26
SPEAKER_01: Crazy, right?
0:28
SPEAKER_01: And I felt this need to be this content machine.
0:32
SPEAKER_01: And not necessarily just promoting my business, but also when I would be out and my partner would call me out.
0:39
SPEAKER_01: He would be like, Can you just live in the moment?
0:42
SPEAKER_01: Do you really have to take pictures and post everything right now?
0:46
SPEAKER_01: And had to really ask myself these questions.
0:50
SPEAKER_01: How can I get clients so I don't have to be on all the time?
0:54
SPEAKER_01: And just be truly present.
0:57
SPEAKER_01: And I'm not just saying in my business, but be present in my life, living a life.
1:04
SPEAKER_01: So this episode is actually part two of episode four.
1:09
SPEAKER_01: So yes, I know it's a 38th episode recording this on how to be less dependent on social media.
1:15
SPEAKER_01: It's looking behind the scenes one year later, of the strategies that I've implemented with my marketing strategist, who is also part of my team, where we coach and strategize with our clients in their business and marketing plan.
1:30
SPEAKER_01: So let's drop the beat for you to be less dependent on social media too.
1:41
SPEAKER_01: Hey legacy maker, I'm your host and MC, Elaine Lucartis, business and career coach for Women of Color and Allies.
1:49
SPEAKER_01: And welcome to the Call Your Dreams Podcast, where we have conscious conversations to help you create a business or career that is sustainable, abundant, and equitable to the lifestyle you deserve.
2:05
SPEAKER_01: Because our ancestors sacrificed so much so we can have this life of choice.
2:11
SPEAKER_01: Now, grab your coffee, tea, andor boba, and let's call your dreams to create your legacy.
2:21
SPEAKER_01: Hey legacy makers, happy new year.
2:25
SPEAKER_01: We're technically recording actually at the end of the year.
2:29
SPEAKER_01: I have a favorite, Monica Schrock.
2:33
SPEAKER_01: I say favorite because my clients always love them.
2:36
SPEAKER_01: Hi Monica.
2:37
SPEAKER_00: Hi.
2:38
SPEAKER_00: I'm great.
2:39
SPEAKER_00: Thanks for having me.
2:40
SPEAKER_01: So sorry, sorry.
2:42
SPEAKER_01: Let me let me prep you up right now.
2:44
SPEAKER_01: So Monica is my marketing strategist slash client.
2:47
SPEAKER_01: We've known each other for four years.
2:50
SPEAKER_01: Four years.
2:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
2:51
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
2:51
SPEAKER_00: Four and a half years.
2:52
SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah.
2:54
SPEAKER_00: We've been working together for four years, but I met you at your first event.
2:58
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
2:59
SPEAKER_01: So it's been a beautiful friendship.
3:01
SPEAKER_01: I I think we're beyond the working relationship, I would hope.
3:05
SPEAKER_01: I would say so.
3:07
SPEAKER_01: And Monica's also the I love how you checked in on that.
3:10
SPEAKER_01: That's well.
3:11
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, of course.
3:11
SPEAKER_01: I I'm doing it in the podcast, so it's recorded, guys.
3:16
SPEAKER_00: Amazing.
3:18
SPEAKER_01: Monica's also the founder of Unsocially Inclined that does holistic marketing.
3:23
SPEAKER_01: And the goal for Unsocially Inclined to help you make more and do less.
3:26
SPEAKER_01: And I will say Monica has helped me do that, being my marketing strategist.
3:30
SPEAKER_01: In addition to that, Monica just got a job as integrated marketing manager for the Portland Blazers on top of having a job.
3:39
SPEAKER_01: Also reminding all of you listening that you can have a job and have a business.
3:44
SPEAKER_01: There, I hate that people have this judgment that it's one or the other.
3:48
SPEAKER_01: Maybe that's another podcast.
3:49
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it doesn't have to be one or the other.
3:50
SPEAKER_00: That could be another podcast, but entrepreneurship looks however you want it to.
3:54
SPEAKER_00: And even I did my business for years without a full-time job and then with one.
3:59
SPEAKER_00: And so yeah, it can look whatever there are waves and seasons for your business, and it doesn't mean that you are behind or you're taking steps back just because you decide to get a job.
4:08
SPEAKER_00: I I actually like I know a lot of people that are doing that now and not quitting their business, but just want a little bit of like a a breather, essentially.
4:16
SPEAKER_01: And uh I feel like there's this like trophy mechanism where entrepreneurs who work full-time, well, like it's not a real business.
4:23
SPEAKER_01: But guess what?
4:24
SPEAKER_01: If you think you're making money.
4:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, and everything in life is made up by humans and rules are made by humans.
4:32
SPEAKER_01: And also, Monica, do you wanna do you wanna pitch a particular book right now?
4:38
SPEAKER_00: I mean, yeah, before I pitched that book, it reminded me of when I used to, I served tables for 15 years from when I was 15 to 30.
4:45
SPEAKER_00: And in my like mid-20s, I was only serving tables, which was like my f honestly, like one of the best times of my life.
4:52
SPEAKER_00: But I remember people being like, All right, when are you gonna get a real job?
4:54
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Well, this job makes me real money, and I'm able to only work 20 hours a week and then do whatever I want.
5:02
SPEAKER_00: So, what is real to you?
5:04
SPEAKER_00: Because to me, it's pretty real and it's pretty awesome.
5:07
SPEAKER_00: So don't let anyone tell you what's real or not, because usually choosing their direction is just the wrong one for you, generally speaking.
5:15
SPEAKER_01: I bet a lot of people relate to this because this podcast episode's dropping right after the holidays.
5:20
SPEAKER_01: So I'm pretty sure seeing certain family members or friends.
5:24
SPEAKER_01: So what do you do again?
5:26
SPEAKER_01: Why aren't you guys married?
5:29
SPEAKER_01: Or are you gonna have kids?
5:31
SPEAKER_00: What wait, are you gonna keep doing this?
5:34
SPEAKER_00: This pipe dream, or do you have a backup plan?
5:37
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, or why are you doing all of that?
5:39
SPEAKER_01: I'm confused.
5:41
SPEAKER_00: And yeah, or like what do you even do for a living?
5:44
SPEAKER_01: I just hope that we are not trying to trigger you during this episode.
5:47
SPEAKER_01: We're just sharing in relatability, but the book Solidarity.
5:51
SPEAKER_00: Yes, the book.
5:52
SPEAKER_00: So this book has like kind of like uh had a ripple effect on our Elaine and I's like community.
5:58
SPEAKER_00: So I found it in a random amazing bookstore that I'm like blanking on the name, but I'm sure I could find it later in Olympia, Washington, on my way back from Seattle.
6:08
SPEAKER_00: And I was, I love going into bookstores and comic bookshops.
6:10
SPEAKER_00: I just want to go, and I'll usually buy something because I like to support a bookshop.
6:15
SPEAKER_00: So I was looking around and I saw this book called 4,000 weeks.
6:20
SPEAKER_00: And I think it's like time management for mortals is like the subtitle.
6:23
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, oh man, like another time management book.
6:26
SPEAKER_00: Like, do I really want to?
6:28
SPEAKER_00: Because I mean, I'm sure, like, I'm sure a lot of people listening have read a lot of time management books.
6:33
SPEAKER_00: That shit never works for me because it's just really like the advice is very practical, but it's not how my brain works.
6:38
SPEAKER_00: So I'm just like, oh, I was like, do I want to?
6:40
SPEAKER_00: But I read the back cover and I was like, okay, let's just take a shot.
6:44
SPEAKER_00: This will be the last one.
6:46
SPEAKER_00: This will be the last time management book I read.
6:48
SPEAKER_00: And then I read it and I was like, oh my God.
6:51
SPEAKER_00: I was in Mexico on vacation reading it, and I was like, this is the best thing I've ever read.
6:54
SPEAKER_00: But you know, when you read something and you're like, is it?
6:56
SPEAKER_00: Or am I just like, do I just think it is because I'm in this headspace?
7:00
SPEAKER_00: So I shared it with a few friends, Elaine being one, and a couple others, and they were like, oh my God, this is life-changing.
7:05
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, okay, it's not just me.
7:08
SPEAKER_00: So it's like a life-changing book in the sense of it just like kind of repositions your relationship with time and what that means.
7:16
SPEAKER_00: And we all know the expectations of capitalism is part of it.
7:19
SPEAKER_00: Like, we can't, you we can't get away from that.
7:21
SPEAKER_00: But I mean, hopefully someday we can.
7:23
SPEAKER_00: But it's really like repositioning what matters and that, you know, you're intentionally choosing something.
7:30
SPEAKER_00: Like FOMO is something that is real, but if you're not having FOMO, if you're not intentionally choosing something, then you're not really like living in a moment.
7:39
SPEAKER_00: You're not choosing the life you want to live.
7:41
SPEAKER_00: So I don't know, I could say a lot more, but Elaine, what what how did it help you and why are we pitching this book?
7:47
SPEAKER_01: Well, it I'll just be honest.
7:50
SPEAKER_01: I've been pitching this book consistently throughout my podcast episode, referencing you so I can not be able to do that.
7:56
SPEAKER_01: Thank you for the credit.
7:57
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, of course.
7:58
SPEAKER_01: I give credit where credit is due.
8:00
SPEAKER_01: But I think there's so much shoulds, so much shoulding ourselves.
8:04
SPEAKER_01: Like you should do it this way, you should do it that way, which is a great transition to like you should have a business on social media.
8:11
SPEAKER_01: So this episode, listen to episode four.
8:15
SPEAKER_01: It's my first episode with Monica on how to be how to be less dependent on social media.
8:19
SPEAKER_01: And this is kind of like a post part two behind the scenes one year later of how I became less dependent on social media.
8:27
SPEAKER_01: I know.
8:28
SPEAKER_01: Congrats!
8:29
SPEAKER_00: Wild.
8:30
SPEAKER_01: And awesome.
8:32
SPEAKER_01: And it was, yeah, also it's one year later since I've hired you.
8:36
SPEAKER_01: So Monica's doing something right if I decide to continue to work with Monica for a whole year.
8:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and then continuing.
8:43
SPEAKER_00: That's true.
8:44
SPEAKER_00: That's a great point.
8:47
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
8:47
SPEAKER_00: I'm excited to dive into this.
8:48
SPEAKER_00: It's something that is very near and dear to my heart.
8:51
SPEAKER_00: I started in marketing when social media was first becoming a thing.
8:54
SPEAKER_00: I so I graduated college 2009.
8:58
SPEAKER_00: So Twitter started in 2009.
9:00
SPEAKER_00: Facebook, I still needed to have a college email to have a Facebook account.
9:05
SPEAKER_00: And Instagram didn't start till 2010, and I didn't have it until maybe 2012 because it was only available on iPhone and I had an Android at that point.
9:13
SPEAKER_00: But like, yeah, so I started my first job.
9:16
SPEAKER_00: I started the Twitter and Facebook for that company and then got a beta on LinkedIn when it came out and a beta on Pinterest.
9:22
SPEAKER_00: So honestly, like right when it started for everyone, but then especially when it started for organizations and businesses and nonprofits, I was like right there at the ground floor of it.
9:34
SPEAKER_00: So me and social media have been on the come up together since we started in this industry.
9:40
SPEAKER_01: When I think about that time, so I was in college, I graduated in 2010, and then I went straight into being a grassroots organizer, working on political campaigns, and social media was new.
9:52
SPEAKER_01: And the way we got out to vote was knocking on doors, doing phone calls, direct mail.
9:56
SPEAKER_01: That was the way of communication.
9:58
SPEAKER_01: And people would ask, oh, what about like creating a Facebook page, doing all social media?
10:03
SPEAKER_00: And it was I feel like politics, they were a little late to the game.
10:06
SPEAKER_00: I feel like a little bit.
10:08
SPEAKER_01: They were late, and the person that really made it bigger for people to pay attention was Barack Obama.
10:16
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah because he understood the power of social media and other political people.
10:21
SPEAKER_01: But we're we're gonna face politics today.
10:23
SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna take the pound.
10:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, let's not.
10:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so but yeah, social media, you know, it used to be like so.
10:36
SPEAKER_00: I came up like foundational marketing strategy is really important to me.
10:40
SPEAKER_00: Not just because I'm like hanging on to something that was really important when I started.
10:44
SPEAKER_00: It's still really important.
10:45
SPEAKER_00: Social media then and now, especially I mean, it feels like it now, but then was never a core strategy of marketing.
10:52
SPEAKER_00: It was a supplement of your marketing strategy that helped you reach more people.
10:55
SPEAKER_00: But you had to have that foundational marketing strategy, that like website, that has those other strategies that exist outside of, you know, now, like then it was chronological.
11:05
SPEAKER_00: Then you could reach people, you know, in the like order that you send something, you could reach everyone because there was no like, there was no obstacle, no algorithm like that.
11:14
SPEAKER_00: So it was like, I think the evolution of depending on social media makes sense because at first it was something you could evolve into depending on.
11:23
SPEAKER_00: Like it was an easy, fairly free resource that you could reach a lot of people on, and now it's not like just, you know, plainly without getting too complicated.
11:32
SPEAKER_00: Now it's not that.
11:33
SPEAKER_00: So it's something I think that has evolved, and I understand why it's something people went super hard into.
11:38
SPEAKER_00: And now I think we need to like reposition ourselves with really long-term sustainable marketing strategies that social media can still support.
11:47
SPEAKER_00: And if you like have been working on social media for a long time, it can help you build those other marketing strategies.
11:52
SPEAKER_00: Like this has not been time wasted, but really just now building something that's more holistic and can last a little longer because we don't know what social media is going to look like in the future, like at all.
12:03
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, holistic, right?
12:05
SPEAKER_01: I mean, that is the mission for and socially inclined your company is having a holistic marketing plan and life.
12:12
SPEAKER_01: And let's be real, a year ago when we were we started working together.
12:16
SPEAKER_01: And Monica's known my business for more than a year because Monica's been also a client, which is why I also hired you because you've known you know it so well.
12:25
SPEAKER_01: But when we were looking at it, and I had to be honest with the lifestyle I had, I just didn't want to be on all the time.
12:32
SPEAKER_01: Like be this content machine on social media.
12:36
SPEAKER_01: Because what's the statistic of how many people see or post on Instagram?
12:39
SPEAKER_01: Is it 1%?
12:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, engagement rate is I don't know, it might be less by now, like average, but I mean you're doing really well if you're getting 5% engagement.
12:49
SPEAKER_00: But it's like 5% of the people that follow you, like that sucks.
12:55
SPEAKER_00: Like quite frankly.
12:57
SPEAKER_01: And this is what helps me even figure out why I wanted to be less dependent on social media.
13:02
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I I saw myself as a user, and I would go on Instagram, and my favorite my favorite account to like follow is I'm 30AF, which I think a lot of yeah, and just like Monica and I exchange marketing memes or business memes to each other.
13:20
SPEAKER_00: So the marketing millennials is also a good one or agency props, anyone who wants to watch some follow some funny marketing accounts.
13:28
SPEAKER_01: I was acknowledging I'm using Instagram as a distraction.
13:32
SPEAKER_01: I'm not even using it for fun to to look for business, I'm using it for fun, which is originally what Instagram was created for.
13:39
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
13:40
SPEAKER_01: And when I started thinking of that, I had to be honest with myself.
13:43
SPEAKER_01: Do I really want to get clients on Instagram who are using it as a distraction?
13:48
SPEAKER_01: Mind you, yeah.
13:49
SPEAKER_01: I use it as a distraction for myself.
13:52
SPEAKER_01: But I was thinking, yeah, but I was thinking about the psychology of my clients.
13:57
SPEAKER_01: I was like, I want someone who knows what they want and long-term relationship, especially since I offer high-ticket offers.
14:05
SPEAKER_01: Is there anything else you want to add to that, Monica?
14:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think also, you know, we've evolved your messaging and also evolved, you've evolved in the who you want to work with, like where they're at in their career.
14:16
SPEAKER_00: So that's all important to, you know, to distinct in this conversation.
14:21
SPEAKER_00: But also, I think, you know, the online business world, which is still like doing its thing.
14:26
SPEAKER_00: I think, you know, people like you said, started using Instagram more as a distraction, which again, no judgment.
14:32
SPEAKER_00: I use it for entertainment.
14:33
SPEAKER_00: That's what I use it for.
14:34
SPEAKER_00: That's why I like to be there.
14:35
SPEAKER_00: I use it to follow sports and funny meme pages and my friends.
14:39
SPEAKER_00: And I've totally abandoned my business Instagram, which I'll I'll reckon with at some point.
14:45
SPEAKER_00: But where can people follow you, by the way?
14:47
SPEAKER_00: You're yeah, at Unsocially Inclined if you want to, which I'll be reckoning with, but at MoneyShrock, which I'm sure we'll put in the description of this.
14:55
SPEAKER_00: So you can follow me in the show notes.
14:57
SPEAKER_00: But also I think that a lot of people I know in the coaching industry specifically, which I know you have a lot of coaches that you work with, are they don't follow other coaches anymore, like because they don't want to see that content because they have to like do it for themselves all day and they don't want to compare themselves to other people.
15:15
SPEAKER_00: So I think if if coaches, if you're the the folks that you want to work with are coaches and you're a coach, it's like you're gonna have to think of another way to reach them besides just Instagram, because people are getting overwhelmed with that type of content and they're seeing the same stuff over and over again, which is a whole other conversation.
15:32
SPEAKER_00: But also like it's not like the messaging for coaching is that different all around.
15:36
SPEAKER_00: It's really about like your approach to it, but also like finding different ways to make your business sustainable because this like this like capsule of Instagram businesses, I don't think are gonna be sustainable over time in general, but especially for people to keep up.
15:52
SPEAKER_00: Like you said, you don't want to be on all the time.
15:54
SPEAKER_00: I didn't want to be on all the time.
15:55
SPEAKER_00: I don't want to talk in stories all the time.
15:58
SPEAKER_00: I don't and st and like standalone, like just static photos don't perform well, and I don't want to make reels.
16:04
SPEAKER_00: So so if you don't want to do certain things, we have to find other ways to reach people and other ways to get eyes on your content.
16:11
SPEAKER_01: I think a bigger message, which is a very Monica shock message, is you don't have to do shit because other people are you don't have to do it.
16:18
SPEAKER_01: Do it if you when you follow Monica or if you already follow Monica, a lot of fiction are static.
16:24
SPEAKER_01: And there are times where you just don't want to be.
16:27
SPEAKER_01: Almost all of them.
16:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, almost all pictures are static.
16:31
SPEAKER_01: So my grandma just passed away and I just was not feeling it.
16:34
SPEAKER_01: I didn't want to like create a lot of posts or do a lot of stories.
16:38
SPEAKER_01: I probably have gone five days without stories, but to feed the algorithm, I I had to.
16:43
SPEAKER_01: I know you don't have to, but I didn't I don't want to because I'm not dependent on it.
16:47
SPEAKER_01: So exactly with that being said, I know a year ago we looked at my data.
16:52
SPEAKER_01: So I would love for you to share why it's important to look at data and not make impulsive decisions, but yeah, also watch patterns over time.
17:02
SPEAKER_01: And I'm happy I will also share numbers and stats with you guys.
17:05
SPEAKER_01: But Monica, I would love for you to share why it's important to look at data.
17:09
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
17:10
SPEAKER_00: And, you know, Elaine, if you have been listening to these, is big, really big on numbers, which I love anyway.
17:16
SPEAKER_00: I loved working with you as a client, but also as you a client for me, because like if if you're not afraid of looking at the numbers, like things just grow so much faster.
17:24
SPEAKER_00: Because it's not a reflection of you as a person.
17:28
SPEAKER_00: It's just like, oh, what are these strategies working?
17:30
SPEAKER_00: Are people finding you?
17:32
SPEAKER_00: Are people relating to you in the way that you hope?
17:35
SPEAKER_00: Like, it's just all information.
17:36
SPEAKER_00: So I love looking at data because yeah, data has answers for us.
17:41
SPEAKER_00: Data is the core of how we decide how we get to do less in our businesses.
17:46
SPEAKER_00: Like you can't do that without looking at the data.
17:49
SPEAKER_00: And this could be like behavioral or like statistics, or it just be feedback from people, like a feedback form.
17:54
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't have to be so mathematical.
17:56
SPEAKER_00: I think when people hear data or data, I always say data, I don't know, however you say it, they think like, oh, it's this like really complicated dashboard of like statistical data, and I'm not gonna be able to put things together.
18:07
SPEAKER_00: I don't have the time to pull that data, I don't have any of that stuff.
18:10
SPEAKER_00: So I think having a marketing strategist helps with that because one, we can do that for you.
18:14
SPEAKER_00: But two, we can look at that data and not a lot of times I've had clients or people I know who do business and they're like, two people said this, so I'm gonna change my entire strategy because they didn't like it.
18:24
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, whoa, pump the brakes.
18:27
SPEAKER_01: Hey, that's I've done that with Monica too, by the way.
18:29
SPEAKER_01: I I did it recently because we did an annual review.
18:32
SPEAKER_01: I was like, Monica, this person said this.
18:33
SPEAKER_01: They're like, that's one person, Elaine.
18:35
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, oh pump the brakes.
18:37
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
18:38
SPEAKER_00: It's one person, and or maybe that's like one.
18:41
SPEAKER_00: And even when we've looked at your stats in the sense of like, okay, maybe we've seen this happen two or three times, like it needs to be more of a pattern for me to say we need to change something.
18:49
SPEAKER_00: So I think a lot of the time we have these like knee-jerk reactions because we see something not working or we see someone not liking something, but we also have to remember like it is working most of the percentage of the time.
19:03
SPEAKER_00: And that's kind of the like important thing is like, is this moving the needle the way we want to?
19:07
SPEAKER_00: Okay, one or two people didn't resonate with that, or they, you know, or that's just not working for like a small percentage of people.
19:14
SPEAKER_00: It's never gonna work for a hundred percent of people.
19:16
SPEAKER_00: Like it never is.
19:17
SPEAKER_01: So I'll give I'll I'll give an example.
19:20
SPEAKER_01: We did this in our annual review call, and I was very intentional this past year.
19:24
SPEAKER_01: I wanted to work with more seasoned or older folks, starting like in their early 30s and up, which I've been attracting, which has been great.
19:33
SPEAKER_01: But there was one lead that actually told me, hey, I'm gonna cancel our sales call that's coming up.
19:38
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, oh, why?
19:40
SPEAKER_01: Or I would love to hear your feedback.
19:42
SPEAKER_01: Why?
19:42
SPEAKER_01: Well, a lot of your pictures have young 20-year-olds, and I'm in my 50s, and I just want to be in a community and work with people who are around my age.
19:52
SPEAKER_01: And I said, actually, I do have a lot of folks in their 40s and 50s, and I sent her three LinkedIn profiles of clients that I'm working with, and then I was kind of like we're also on your website, which is like two out of the three.
20:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, two out of the three are on my website, and then I like freaked out, had the knee-jerk moment that Monica was sharing.
20:12
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Monica, one person almost canceled a sales call because I have young people over my website.
20:18
SPEAKER_01: Maybe I need to like change stuff.
20:19
SPEAKER_01: And she's like, hold on, it's just one person.
20:22
SPEAKER_01: And you called me out.
20:23
SPEAKER_01: You're like, well, did this person convert yet?
20:26
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, oh no, not yet.
20:27
SPEAKER_01: It's like, well, yeah.
20:29
SPEAKER_00: And you know, I we've talked about this too.
20:32
SPEAKER_00: Like representation on websites is important.
20:34
SPEAKER_00: So I'm not saying having folks who are more mature and the photos on your website is not is like, yeah, like we should do that.
20:41
SPEAKER_00: We should represent more folks.
20:43
SPEAKER_00: But also, I think my point too was like, there are folks who are in like, you know, the like mid-30s to 50s, and it's like assuming people's age was also the question.
20:53
SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, I'm 36, and like just because I don't like, I don't know, maybe people don't see me as 36 doesn't mean I'm not.
21:00
SPEAKER_00: We have another person in their 40s who maybe people wouldn't guess is in their 40s, but they are.
21:04
SPEAKER_00: So it's kind of like a weird position right there, too, right?
21:08
SPEAKER_00: Because it's assuming people's ages, which isn't always correct.
21:12
SPEAKER_00: And then being like, oh, do I need mature people on my website that look a certain way?
21:16
SPEAKER_00: So this is all very like nuanced for sure.
21:19
SPEAKER_00: But I think, yeah, the point, like you said, was like, okay, that's good feedback.
21:22
SPEAKER_00: Let's sit on that and like see, you know, if you know, you need to change things going forward, or like, you know, but there's no like correct answer, I think, to something like this situation where it's like you can show things in another way.
21:35
SPEAKER_00: Maybe that's not the way.
21:36
SPEAKER_00: Maybe seeking someone who looks the part is not the way.
21:40
SPEAKER_00: It kind of depends.
21:41
SPEAKER_00: It kind of depends.
21:42
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes that can be tokenizing depending on the situation.
21:45
SPEAKER_00: So I think, yeah, but definitely a good example of like, okay, like we'll sit on that and we'll see what happens.
21:53
SPEAKER_00: But let's not like have a knee jerk reaction and think that you're doing something necessarily wrong because you haven't painted.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: Picture for this one person.
22:02
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
22:03
SPEAKER_01: And that was just like one conversation.
22:05
SPEAKER_01: That could always happen when that just happens.
22:07
SPEAKER_01: But this is why it's important to look at the data and the numbers, like the overall thing.
22:12
SPEAKER_01: So 2020 and 2021, it was really huge for me.
22:16
SPEAKER_01: Like I doubled my business.
22:18
SPEAKER_01: I'm looking at my stats.
22:19
SPEAKER_01: I was 80% renewals and referrals, 5% Instagram, 5% events.
22:24
SPEAKER_01: I was doing monthly events all the time.
22:25
SPEAKER_01: And when we started working together, I was like, Monica, I don't want to be on Instagram all the time.
22:31
SPEAKER_01: And also doing events.
22:33
SPEAKER_00: The reason why I evolved to I don't want to do events all the time.
22:36
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
22:37
SPEAKER_00: Because you don't want to be on.
22:38
SPEAKER_00: You don't want to be on all the time.
22:39
SPEAKER_01: I know my referrals are so high, but referrals also came because people looked on Instagram.
22:43
SPEAKER_01: It was just I didn't want to be dependent on social media.
22:46
SPEAKER_01: So can you probably share like behind the scenes of what we started doing?
22:49
SPEAKER_01: And I will also be transparent.
22:51
SPEAKER_01: It took a while.
22:52
SPEAKER_01: It was not overnight.
22:53
SPEAKER_01: It takes a while.
22:54
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
22:54
SPEAKER_00: Let's just like let's acknowledge that right now.
22:58
SPEAKER_00: And I I talk about this, I talk about this all the time with clients.
23:01
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, this isn't like yes, you need cash injections injections in your business, and there are ways to do that.
23:07
SPEAKER_00: Like quick promos.
23:09
SPEAKER_00: You can do things that are like lighter lifts for you that can be cash injections, and that's another part of your strategy.
23:14
SPEAKER_00: But things that will help your business like maintain over time are long-term strategies, and they don't take a month to start being effective.
23:23
SPEAKER_00: Like they take several months or a year or sometimes more than that to really see like the kind of fruits of that effort.
23:31
SPEAKER_00: So, which is not something we all want to like hear or acknowledge the reality of.
23:37
SPEAKER_00: But you know, that's like how a lot of businesses, a lot of businesses are, you don't need to like lose money all the time, but a lot of businesses have to be prepared for times when things aren't really busy or for times when like a long-term strategy is something they have to invest in and then it'll hit like its stride and start getting you clients like a year down the road or six months down the road.
23:57
SPEAKER_00: This stuff just takes time, like period.
24:00
SPEAKER_01: And I have shared this vulnerability in many podcast episodes.
24:04
SPEAKER_01: But this past or last year, I should say, because this is coming out in 2023, 2022 is like, let's put the brakes on.
24:11
SPEAKER_01: Let me really look at my business.
24:13
SPEAKER_01: I didn't want it to be focused on like let me grow in terms of making more, but like really looking, is this sustainable?
24:20
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, I'm just really not liking this.
24:22
SPEAKER_01: I want more of this.
24:23
SPEAKER_01: I want more seasoned folks.
24:25
SPEAKER_01: And and I was realizing looking at all of my past clients, the people that we loved working with that got the best results, they were very intentional of choosing to work with me, whether they were furroll or found found me online.
24:38
SPEAKER_01: Like they were stalking me on social media, reading the blogs, listening to my podcast guest post, which which led me to having my own podcast, focusing on more blogs, like more long form content.
24:52
SPEAKER_01: Because it wasn't me in a bikini that converted them.
24:58
SPEAKER_01: It was wait, I want to understand Elaine and how her team works.
25:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
25:02
SPEAKER_00: And I think it's the distinction also of like someone not being like, oh my gosh, I need a coach now to fix my business like immediately, which is like, you know, I did not.
25:10
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes people are in that spot.
25:11
SPEAKER_00: But you didn't, yeah, you didn't feel like that was where you were at and how you could help people.
25:16
SPEAKER_00: You really wanted to do it in a more like sustainable way.
25:19
SPEAKER_00: And that was we changed your messaging to that because you wanted to attract those people, which is like a whole nother podcast.
25:24
SPEAKER_00: So I think it's like important to distinguish that.
25:27
SPEAKER_00: Like you wanted folks who did their research, who were ready to make the investment and who were very like grounded in what they were doing already.
25:33
SPEAKER_00: Cause that's where you were at in your business.
25:35
SPEAKER_00: And I think it's like really important to also distinguish that you this was 2022.
25:41
SPEAKER_00: You started your business in what 2017?
25:44
SPEAKER_00: So this is four years later.
25:46
SPEAKER_00: I just want to say that, or five years later.
25:48
SPEAKER_00: I just want to say too.
25:49
SPEAKER_00: What was the beginning?
25:49
SPEAKER_00: So maybe four years when you started this like journey.
25:52
SPEAKER_00: But four or five years into your business is when you were like, okay, I need to do those things.
25:56
SPEAKER_00: And that's not wrong.
25:58
SPEAKER_00: It's like you probably you have to learn a lot of things before you know the direction that you can go sustainably.
26:04
SPEAKER_00: And I think that's it too, is people are like, I didn't do all these like marketing foundations.
26:09
SPEAKER_00: I didn't put these things into place when I started my business.
26:11
SPEAKER_00: So now I'm screwed.
26:12
SPEAKER_00: And it's like, no, you're not.
26:13
SPEAKER_00: Now you have a lot of information on what's been working and what's not been working, and you can move forward with that information.
26:18
SPEAKER_00: And doing it from the beginning is also not wrong because you're still gonna gather that information and you're gonna gather the data immediately instead of having to go back.
26:27
SPEAKER_00: Neither is wrong.
26:28
SPEAKER_00: You can start this process whenever you want to.
26:30
SPEAKER_00: But just I think it's interesting to say that you were four to five years in your business before you started like really thinking about this.
26:36
SPEAKER_01: Like really being intentional.
26:38
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I before it was very much like cash injections.
26:42
SPEAKER_01: I mean, what happened?
26:43
SPEAKER_01: Why did I start thinking this sustainably?
26:45
SPEAKER_01: I was burnt out.
26:46
SPEAKER_01: I just Right.
26:47
SPEAKER_00: You're living from promo to promo where people call launches.
26:50
SPEAKER_00: Technically, a launch is only the first time you do it, but whatever.
26:54
SPEAKER_01: You were what's crazy is I haven't launched anything in 2022.
26:59
SPEAKER_01: Like I get about 10 sales calls per month.
27:04
SPEAKER_01: I was looking at my stats.
27:05
SPEAKER_01: I've served, yeah, we've served 67 clients this past year.
27:09
SPEAKER_01: Go look, go stalk me if you don't believe me in terms of not promoting anything.
27:13
SPEAKER_00: I haven't really podcasted my promoting newsletter.
27:17
SPEAKER_01: That's it.
27:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
27:17
SPEAKER_00: So let's get to that because that's the that's the exciting part of it, right?
27:21
SPEAKER_00: So what you said, go, go, go.
27:23
SPEAKER_00: So what you said when we first started looking at it, because you were like, I'm burnt out.
27:26
SPEAKER_00: I want to implement like more long-term strategies, I want to figure out how to get in front of people.
27:31
SPEAKER_00: Which what I admire about you, Elaine, is like when you decide to do something, like you fucking do it.
27:36
SPEAKER_01: Like you you go for it.
27:37
SPEAKER_01: Elaine Lou fucking Cardis.
27:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
27:40
SPEAKER_00: Like, get shit done was like the original like tagline you have.
27:44
SPEAKER_00: And and Elaine still works like that for sure.
27:46
SPEAKER_00: It says it's kind of gross.
27:48
SPEAKER_01: But anyways, go ahead, go ahead.
27:49
SPEAKER_00: It's not, it's not gross.
27:51
SPEAKER_00: It's not because you know what you want and you go for it, and you're very intentional with it.
27:54
SPEAKER_00: And so that makes my job even easier because, like, you know, we had that trust built, which it which takes time.
28:01
SPEAKER_00: You're not gonna trust someone immediately.
28:02
SPEAKER_00: So we had that trust built, and then it's like, I know, I have my experience, you have your experience with your own business, and we could like put those things together and figure out what's like really best for you and your clients.
28:13
SPEAKER_00: So when we first started looking at things, it was like, okay, yeah, you would are you were already like, I don't want to do this like Instagram social media thing all the time.
28:20
SPEAKER_00: I don't want that to be how I get clients.
28:22
SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of competing situations.
28:24
SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's the other thing about social media.
28:26
SPEAKER_00: There's so many competing messages from so many people that do what you do.
28:30
SPEAKER_00: It's like the noise is super loud.
28:32
SPEAKER_00: It's super loud on there.
28:34
SPEAKER_00: So let's find a place where you actually people can hear you a little bit better, like on the internet.
28:39
SPEAKER_00: Because we're still on the internet.
28:40
SPEAKER_00: We meet people in person, and that's something that's evolving back into our strategies too.
28:45
SPEAKER_00: But I think if we're talking about how to be less dependent on social media within the world of the internet, there are other things you can you can do.
28:52
SPEAKER_00: And I think what we were, what we were looking at, I'm always like an advocate for email marketing.
28:57
SPEAKER_00: So I'm like immediately like, how do we make this more of like the core of your strategy?
29:02
SPEAKER_00: Like immediately.
29:02
SPEAKER_00: So we were already looking at that.
29:04
SPEAKER_00: But then we're also looking at people were finding you, which is also why it's important to ask people where they find you.
29:10
SPEAKER_00: I'd like to say if you're gonna write anything down.
29:12
SPEAKER_01: Every sales call, I ask, how'd you who I'm curious?
29:15
SPEAKER_01: How'd you find me?
29:16
SPEAKER_01: Where did you find me?
29:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
29:17
SPEAKER_00: If you're gonna write anything down from this, please start asking people that because you will not know that that's like that's in that data is so valuable.
29:25
SPEAKER_00: You will not know where people find you unless you ask, even if it's on an intake form or if it's in the call, like you said.
29:31
SPEAKER_00: And then you'll know, okay, Instagram, okay, but we figured out like people were finding you because you were guests on other podcasts, right?
29:38
SPEAKER_00: And they were really enjoying those episodes.
29:41
SPEAKER_00: So after like, you know, thinking about it and creating a strategy for 2022, because a pot making a podcast is a lot of energy and it's a lot of reasons, it takes a lot of resources.
29:50
SPEAKER_00: This is a lot of money, guys, too, by the way.
29:52
SPEAKER_00: A lot of money.
29:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's not an easy thing.
29:54
SPEAKER_01: I am not complaining.
29:55
SPEAKER_01: I mean, transparency, yes.
29:58
SPEAKER_01: There, but it's just people should know.
30:00
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, one or two of you may want to work with me, but also it coming from the nonprofit world, this also feeds my giving back to the community.
30:07
SPEAKER_01: A lot of you will not want to work with me and Monica, and that's completely okay too.
30:12
SPEAKER_01: Because guess what?
30:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we are doing this podcast, but I am not dancing and pointing on social media.
30:18
SPEAKER_01: It's great.
30:19
SPEAKER_01: You're not gonna do it.
30:20
SPEAKER_00: Which is what you want to do.
30:22
SPEAKER_00: It's amazing.
30:24
SPEAKER_00: No, yeah.
30:24
SPEAKER_00: So we were like, okay, if if you really want to go in a direction where you don't have to do as much of that, recognizing that a podcast is a lot of resources, time, energy, money, but it seemed like this is somewhere people are finding you.
30:36
SPEAKER_00: This is gonna be worth it.
30:37
SPEAKER_00: And you are also like, I think, in the in the sense that you also have to be willing to accept if it doesn't work.
30:42
SPEAKER_00: And that's something too where I think people, nothing is foolproof, nothing is fail-proof.
30:47
SPEAKER_00: And I'm not, you know, and none of it's really a failure, but you do have to be like, cool.
30:52
SPEAKER_00: If I do invest in this, like I have to also have this sliver of reality because you don't want to be like, oh, this is gonna fail, like obviously.
31:00
SPEAKER_00: But there has to be like an acceptance of sometimes you like cut your losses and that thing didn't work.
31:06
SPEAKER_00: And that's like what we do in a lot of marketing.
31:08
SPEAKER_00: It happens all the time.
31:09
SPEAKER_00: Like we're doing that constantly.
31:10
SPEAKER_00: Like we put a lot of effort in this one thing, it's not showing results over time, not immediately, like over time, like three, six months a year, then it's like, cool, cut our losses and let's lean in this other direction.
31:22
SPEAKER_00: That's what marketers do all the time.
31:24
SPEAKER_00: So I think it's really important to say that and not putting all your eggs in one basket, which is why we don't want to be dependent on social media in the first place, even though the resources in the in the sense of money, unless you're running paid social campaigns, is way less.
31:39
SPEAKER_00: There are barriers to it.
31:40
SPEAKER_01: So I also want to add, it was interesting.
31:43
SPEAKER_01: I saw someone post, like, I'll teach you to get clients without spending a dollar on marketing, right?
31:48
SPEAKER_01: And they have a huge following.
31:50
SPEAKER_01: But I'm also thinking, sure, you're not spending money on it, but how much peeve number one.
31:55
SPEAKER_01: How much time?
31:56
SPEAKER_01: How much time are you spending on social media?
31:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
32:00
SPEAKER_00: How much time are you spending not doing the things you want to do with the people you want to do them?
32:05
SPEAKER_00: And it's like you'll have to make those sacrifices anyway, if you have your own business for sure.
32:09
SPEAKER_00: But like, what yeah, time is money.
32:12
SPEAKER_00: Like your time caught your time has a cost, period.
32:16
SPEAKER_00: Like it's just like that's not free.
32:18
SPEAKER_00: So social media, like I was joking, because I used to do social media for companies and organizations.
32:23
SPEAKER_00: Like that was part of my job.
32:25
SPEAKER_00: And I was joking with someone at the Trailblazers the other day.
32:27
SPEAKER_00: I was like, oh yeah, like I'm so glad that there's like more people doing it.
32:31
SPEAKER_00: And he's like, Yeah, because it's so easy, right?
32:32
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, yeah, because it's so easy to do social media.
32:35
SPEAKER_00: Like it takes so much time.
32:37
SPEAKER_00: You're always on.
32:38
SPEAKER_00: There's no one who social media never, they're never off.
32:42
SPEAKER_00: Like you're never off if you're social media managers.
32:44
SPEAKER_00: So if you have your own business and you're doing that, you also don't get to be off because you always have to be paying attention to it.
32:50
SPEAKER_00: And, you know, it's like, yeah, you could make a post that says, I'm not gonna be responding here, but like not everyone's gonna get it.
32:58
SPEAKER_00: So it's like you have this like kind of like urge to make sure that you're there all the time.
33:02
SPEAKER_00: So I think when we were talking about this, it was like you want to give value.
33:06
SPEAKER_00: This was a replacement for the monthly free events you were doing because you didn't want to be on in that way.
33:12
SPEAKER_00: You didn't want to have to do all the promotion for those events.
33:16
SPEAKER_00: You were just done with them.
33:17
SPEAKER_00: You've been doing them a long time.
33:18
SPEAKER_00: It was time to like to pivot somewhere else because, like you were saying, you were burnt out.
33:22
SPEAKER_00: Doing those events are a lot of energy.
33:25
SPEAKER_00: So we were looking at that.
33:26
SPEAKER_00: We were looking at the reality of where people were finding you, and we were like, this is a good investment because what's important to your business is you value add value and you give back to your community.
33:35
SPEAKER_00: And in this sense, sure, you're doing something that really could attract clients, the like the clients you want to work with, but you're also doing something for folks that can't work with you, right?
33:43
SPEAKER_00: Like people who are like in reality can't make that investment right now, but they're still gonna get value out of your podcast and still gonna get like a sense of how you coach and still get some tips of how you coach your own clients.
33:53
SPEAKER_00: So I think that was important between that and the time and energy and how people are finding you.
33:57
SPEAKER_00: We were like, let's do it.
33:58
SPEAKER_00: Like, let's do a podcast and let's see how this goes, which obviously now has gone really well.
34:03
SPEAKER_00: So I think it's like, you know, this isn't like a one data decision for people to remember.
34:07
SPEAKER_00: Like there are many different factors and looking at like, you know, weighing the cost and benefit and being like the benefit of this is gonna outweigh the cost if it goes the way we think it's gonna go.
34:17
SPEAKER_00: And with your community and with like what you do, we were confident that would go a great direction.
34:22
SPEAKER_00: And it did.
34:23
SPEAKER_01: Transparency, my I don't get a lot of people that listen to my episodes if you're gonna compare it to like huge podcast episodes.
34:30
SPEAKER_01: But we knew this.
34:31
SPEAKER_01: We knew this because the reality is is working with me is a high with me and Monica, just so you know, you get Monica too, but you also get Monica by yourself if you want that for yourself too.
34:41
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
34:41
SPEAKER_01: It is a high ticket offer.
34:43
SPEAKER_01: When what I'm defining as high ticket, it's anywhere from like four to five digits.
34:48
SPEAKER_01: And and so if it's a high ticket offer, then we're going to be very intentional of the content we're going to create.
34:56
SPEAKER_01: And I had a freebie.
34:58
SPEAKER_01: It was called How to Get Your First Paying Clients.
35:00
SPEAKER_01: We took that freebie out.
35:02
SPEAKER_01: That is not the freebie.
35:03
SPEAKER_00: Right.
35:04
SPEAKER_00: So, what content do you want to offer that attracts the people you want to work with?
35:08
SPEAKER_00: How to get your first paying client if you wanted seasoned entrepreneurs and business owners and career coaching clients?
35:13
SPEAKER_00: Nope.
35:14
SPEAKER_01: No, we're really thinking about.
35:16
SPEAKER_01: And what we did instead was newsletters.
35:19
SPEAKER_01: Like, I mean, it was basic, not just because it was trendy.
35:22
SPEAKER_01: Monica actually has been doing newsletters before it became sexy and trendy in 2022.
35:26
SPEAKER_01: What do you want to share about newsletters?
35:28
SPEAKER_00: Forever.
35:28
SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
35:29
SPEAKER_00: I love that people are doing more of them, but like, yeah, forever.
35:33
SPEAKER_00: Like since I started in marketing, you know, and newsletters, newsletters have made a comeback, which is cool.
35:38
SPEAKER_00: Because I think before this, for years, it was like people cannot handle more than one piece of information in an email.
35:43
SPEAKER_00: So you should only put one link in one piece of information, which for a while was true.
35:48
SPEAKER_00: But I think now people are like, I want to like consume some information in one place where I get to see like a lot of different aspects of someone and get a lot of different types of things and get all the things I need to know.
35:58
SPEAKER_00: Because even if you're a business that has events and content and whatever, like they're like just giving me it all in one email.
36:04
SPEAKER_00: I want to know everything that's going on so I don't have to like look out for multiple things, you know, because people are tired of looking out for multiple things.
36:11
SPEAKER_00: But I think like we decided like a lot of what you like, people that follow you love to see, love your advice, but love also like that you just like write what you're feeling, love also to like see your humor and like all these things.
36:23
SPEAKER_00: So it was like we wanted a place for that to all live and like a newsletter where you get to be like genuine and goofy and also give tips and also link out to your podcasts and your blog posts.
36:32
SPEAKER_00: And you're like, hey, I'll do a business audit for you or a career audit for you, giving all those opportunities in one spot.
36:38
SPEAKER_00: So we were like, yeah, let's start a weekly one.
36:40
SPEAKER_00: Let's see how weekly goes if people are like into hearing from you once a week for that.
36:44
SPEAKER_00: And it was just a place, I think, and you could speak to that, that you felt more, you felt better about being vulnerable in that like container because people had purposely signed up for it.
36:53
SPEAKER_00: Which for me, data-wise, it's like email the engagement rate and the conversion rate is so much higher because people have made an intention to hear from you.
37:01
SPEAKER_00: And yeah, if they follow you, they kind of do, but they're not always seeing your content.
37:05
SPEAKER_00: And if they are on your email list, unless you have a deliverability issue, they're getting your email in their in their inbox and they're opening it, whether they want to or not.
37:14
SPEAKER_00: Like maybe they are, maybe they're not, but they're you're really like they invited you into their world.
37:18
SPEAKER_00: And I know you, which you could speak to, felt more comfortable sharing in that container with people who have you've invited into that world, not people who are just like maybe finding you on social media.
37:29
SPEAKER_01: Maybe I'm making a bold claim.
37:30
SPEAKER_01: So feel free to correct me if I'm wrong or share your opinion.
37:35
SPEAKER_01: Maybe this is more of an opinion, but I feel like with emails and podcasts, long-form content, is very trauma-informed because both Monica and I are trauma-informed certified, as opposed to like social media.
37:47
SPEAKER_01: Because with the algorithm, right, regardless of what platform you're in, you go, it's gonna show you what they think you want, right?
37:54
SPEAKER_01: Emails, we have this intention of do we want to open it?
37:58
SPEAKER_01: I don't like this email anymore.
37:59
SPEAKER_01: Let me unsubscribe.
38:00
SPEAKER_01: Or even listening to a podcast episode, okay, 10 minutes in, you're just not feeling it, you get out of it.
38:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
38:06
SPEAKER_01: What I do appreciate about emails and podcasts is just even the psyche of it.
38:10
SPEAKER_01: I'm not addicted to the stats of it.
38:13
SPEAKER_01: I'm not like, yeah, I mean, I'll be honest, it happened when I was on a call with Monica.
38:17
SPEAKER_01: I did check there was one person I know that unsubscribed.
38:19
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, Monica.
38:23
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
38:24
SPEAKER_01: So it does happen, but it's not like social media where you truly do see like you're being notified every single time.
38:31
SPEAKER_01: And emails, you don't have to be notified.
38:32
SPEAKER_01: Podcasts, I have no idea who's listening.
38:35
SPEAKER_01: I just know what's working because it shows the numbers, but it doesn't show like Monica Shock, listen to this episode five times.
38:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's not, yeah, you really just to get like really get to like really like feel out the content and hear from people who are actually booking calls and not have to worry about people who aren't taking action in the way that you've designed your like marketing funnel for them to take action, you know.
38:57
SPEAKER_00: So I think that's really important.
38:59
SPEAKER_00: And also, yeah, like emails.
39:03
SPEAKER_00: I think, yeah, I think they are because it's like, you know, you can put content warnings and things like that.
39:08
SPEAKER_00: And I think that's also why it's important to really be transparent about what the email is and what the podcast is.
39:13
SPEAKER_00: Like putting something in there that's like totally not what it is, and people get in there and they're like, oh shit, this is not what I expected.
39:19
SPEAKER_00: It's like be transparent.
39:21
SPEAKER_00: Like it's, you know, sometimes fun to intrigue people.
39:23
SPEAKER_00: I'm not saying you you can't make subject lines and podcast episode titles that are intriguing, like you still can and be transparent about what the like what the email or what the podcast is about.
39:33
SPEAKER_00: So people don't go in and are like, you know, kind of startled by what is actually in there.
39:38
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, sure.
39:39
SPEAKER_01: And I want to also share, like, the reason why I wanted to get more into emails and I also did blogs is I I mean, Monica and I are around the same age, but I grew up with Zanga and Live Journal.
39:51
SPEAKER_01: Live journal.
39:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
39:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, just riding by emotion.
39:53
SPEAKER_01: Tumblr, Tumblr.
39:54
SPEAKER_01: That was my shit.
39:55
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, this I was a crazy teenager sharing my emotions, you know, secretly stalking my crush back in the day, if he was saying anything about me, or who the hell is he talking about?
40:06
SPEAKER_01: Because that's clearly not me.
40:08
SPEAKER_01: Like I had fun with it, and that's how I treat my emails.
40:11
SPEAKER_01: So if sorry, I have to do a plug, but if you want to join my email center, go to e-lay and boo.com forward slash join.
40:17
SPEAKER_00: Definitely plug it for sure.
40:19
SPEAKER_00: Well, and that I think is a really important point too, is like we were getting into maybe this was like halfway through the year.
40:26
SPEAKER_00: We like did a check-in of like, okay, how are things going?
40:29
SPEAKER_00: So, and I think just to like throw in there too, before we talk about this, like you did also invest in a Google search engine SEO like strategy.
40:39
SPEAKER_00: You also did a lot of strategy and like promotion with your clients around Yelp reviews, Google reviews, like all the getting those reviews.
40:46
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
40:47
SPEAKER_00: Getting those reviews, yeah, podcast reviews, like all the things that really are like social proof for you working with people and just really being intentional and asking people to do it, which makes a big deal.
40:56
SPEAKER_00: Makes sense.
40:57
SPEAKER_01: Asking permission.
40:58
SPEAKER_01: Asking permission.
40:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, just asking.
41:00
SPEAKER_00: I mean, all you can do with all your services, with everything you do, all you can do is invite.
41:04
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you have to invite people or they're not even gonna think about doing it, you know?
41:08
SPEAKER_00: Like, think about Airbnb who automatically like, you know, push notifications like, hey, if you enjoyed your stay, leave a review for your host.
41:15
SPEAKER_00: If you enjoyed the person that you hosted, leave a review for them, because it's like really a big deal for people to see if they want to like stay with that person or if they want to host that person.
41:24
SPEAKER_00: And that doesn't seem weird to people, right?
41:26
SPEAKER_00: Neither does asking people for your business.
41:28
SPEAKER_00: If you have a service-based business, you should ask people for feedback, ask people for testimonials if they had a great experience.
41:34
SPEAKER_00: And all you're doing is asking them.
41:36
SPEAKER_00: You're not pressuring them, like, just you know, be cool.
41:39
SPEAKER_00: Just ask them.
41:39
SPEAKER_00: It's just an invitation, you know.
41:42
SPEAKER_00: Like you don't have to be pushy, but if you never ask, they're not gonna do it automatically.
41:47
SPEAKER_00: Like, think about Yelp in the sense of like restaurants, even.
41:50
SPEAKER_00: How many times do you leave a review when you had a great experience?
41:54
SPEAKER_00: Like most people, not a lot.
41:56
SPEAKER_00: You leave a review when you have a bad experience.
41:58
SPEAKER_00: So, like, think about how, like, honestly, like I don't leave reviews at all because I just I just can't.
42:04
SPEAKER_00: But like a lot of the times when I like I barely even trust Yelp reviews a lot of the time because I know it's people like venting when they had a bad experience that is generally not the overall reflection of the entire place.
42:14
SPEAKER_00: Plus, I worked in restaurants, so I know that's true.
42:17
SPEAKER_00: But like, but and also people exaggerate, and it's yeah, I know because I worked in them for 15 years.
42:23
SPEAKER_00: But also, it's like leaving reviews when you have a positive experience isn't something people do automatically because they're like, oh, that's the experience I was supposed to have.
42:30
SPEAKER_00: Like, why would I leave a review for what how I was supposed to be like, how I was supposed to experience that service?
42:36
SPEAKER_00: So if you're not asking for it, people are probably not thinking about it.
42:39
SPEAKER_00: So it's not even like a slight to you, it's that they have their own lives, they're doing their own thing.
42:43
SPEAKER_00: And if you're like, hey, it really helps me if you leave a review on Google or on Yelp, because like, you know, that's how a lot of people find me.
42:52
SPEAKER_00: Like, if you have time, like I really appreciate it.
42:55
SPEAKER_00: And it's like a lot of people you work with do because you're really intentional about asking them.
42:58
SPEAKER_01: I wanna before I share more about the SEO, let's kind of close the loop in emails.
43:02
SPEAKER_01: So, talking about the long term, I was averaging about seven to eight percent in open rate for my emails.
43:08
SPEAKER_01: And like we said, long term wait for it.
43:11
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
43:12
SPEAKER_00: And it was an app.
43:13
SPEAKER_00: And for context, also for people, I don't know if you know much about email, seven or eight percent is low.
43:18
SPEAKER_00: That's very low.
43:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
43:19
SPEAKER_00: On average.
43:20
SPEAKER_00: 15 to 20% is average, and if you're getting over 20, you're doing super well.
43:24
SPEAKER_00: So I think that is just a distinction.
43:26
SPEAKER_00: Like that's not a good open rate.
43:28
SPEAKER_01: No, it wasn't.
43:29
SPEAKER_01: And it wasn't.
43:30
SPEAKER_00: And the click rate, I think, was low too.
43:32
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, less than point three percent.
43:35
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
43:35
SPEAKER_01: And it wasn't until eight months later, which is August, where it was 22.22%.
43:41
SPEAKER_01: So it really jumped.
43:42
SPEAKER_01: And now we're averaging probably like one percent right now.
43:47
SPEAKER_01: We have a goal for three percent.
43:48
SPEAKER_01: So that's where conversion.
43:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, for click rate for email.
43:52
SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
43:52
SPEAKER_01: So that's what we mean by numbers.
43:54
SPEAKER_01: I know people talk about numbers like looking at your bank account, but you should also look at your numbers of what's working, what's not working.
43:58
SPEAKER_01: And mind you
44:00
SPEAKER_00: Really analyzed the content that was resonating with people.
44:03
SPEAKER_00: That's not just like, oh, let's see when the number rises.
44:06
SPEAKER_00: Like, how does the number rise?
44:07
SPEAKER_00: It's not just because you keep sending emails, which if you are consistent with emails, by the way, and if you there is many, many, many re much research that says if you send more, you will get more open rates.
44:17
SPEAKER_00: This is not something like people are used to getting emails.
44:20
SPEAKER_00: And we can talk about like in your own session if you want on what that means for your business.
44:24
SPEAKER_00: But for Elaine's business, we were like, okay, two a week is like, let's start with that.
44:29
SPEAKER_00: One for the podcast and a newsletter.
44:31
SPEAKER_00: And two a week is not a lot at these days for like emails.
44:35
SPEAKER_00: Like that's a very acceptable amount.
44:37
SPEAKER_00: And I think, but what we did is we started out super strong.
44:40
SPEAKER_00: We started out, like not that we're strong now, but we started out doing a lot of content.
44:45
SPEAKER_00: Two a week, let's see how it resonates with people, looking at subject lines.
44:49
SPEAKER_00: You and Caitlin, who who helps you pull statistics, put all these things in a in an Excel doc and we're like, okay, here's the open rate, here's the conversion rate, here's the title of the email.
45:00
SPEAKER_00: So we knew what was getting people like to open the email.
45:03
SPEAKER_00: We were like, oh, cool.
45:04
SPEAKER_00: So when Elaine travels, people are interested.
45:06
SPEAKER_00: So if you're traveling, we really need to like lean into that.
45:09
SPEAKER_00: You talk about doing less in your business or simplify simplifying, people are super interested.
45:14
SPEAKER_00: And there were other things that people weren't interested in.
45:16
SPEAKER_00: So we were like, okay, we're not gonna we're not gonna say you can never do something else because also content should be what you want to do.
45:23
SPEAKER_00: So every once in a while, you want to send an email just because you want to send it and it doesn't do well.
45:27
SPEAKER_00: Who cares?
45:28
SPEAKER_00: You wanted to send the email, fine.
45:30
SPEAKER_00: You know, like it doesn't mean you can't do anything you want just because it doesn't perform well.
45:34
SPEAKER_00: And I'm doing like air quotes because it's like performing well has many different Well, and I just I just said that.
45:40
SPEAKER_01: I did that about a week ago, announcing that I was one of the top 10 according to Apple News for business coaches in 2023.
45:47
SPEAKER_01: So that was not through a newsletter or podcast and thousands, you just won right.
45:51
SPEAKER_01: But when we're talking about long-term sustainability, holistic marketing, it did take eight months.
45:57
SPEAKER_01: So going back to the SEO, the reason why I did it, which goes back to talking about looking, looking at what's not working, maybe seeing what you want to lean into, what wasn't working for me, and not that it wasn't, it was working.
46:10
SPEAKER_01: Like I will say that social media was working for me, but thinking about being on it constantly was not working for it.
46:16
SPEAKER_01: It wasn't working for you as a person.
46:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, as a person.
46:19
SPEAKER_01: So yes, stats and data helps, but you also get to choose how you want to live your life if that's matching, which is why my messaging is all about having a sustainable and equitable business in life or career in life.
46:32
SPEAKER_00: And why you're like living it for sure.
46:34
SPEAKER_00: And I think it's also important to say that SEO doesn't just mean that you're putting keywords on things.
46:40
SPEAKER_00: There's like a whole like I don't want to use the over overhaul seems like dramatic a little bit, but there is a whole like kind of overhaul of your website.
46:48
SPEAKER_00: Like your website is the core piece of that strategy.
46:51
SPEAKER_00: And there needs to be like certain, you know, strategic like I have a confession.
46:56
SPEAKER_00: Improvements.
46:57
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
46:57
SPEAKER_01: Go ahead.
46:58
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I have a confession.
46:59
SPEAKER_01: I mean, in the beginning, when I was just starting, yeah, I didn't, I didn't get clients to my website.
47:05
SPEAKER_01: It was obviously referrals.
47:07
SPEAKER_01: And in my probably first two or three years in business, people would tell me, like, you need to create a website.
47:11
SPEAKER_01: I was like, you don't need one right now, or websites aren't important.
47:15
SPEAKER_01: And what shifted for me to start doing SEO was because people were literally telling me the keywords.
47:23
SPEAKER_01: And that's what SEO is.
47:24
SPEAKER_01: It's search engine optimization.
47:26
SPEAKER_01: People are typing it.
47:27
SPEAKER_01: It's kind of like you're searching on Instagram or Amazon.
47:30
SPEAKER_01: You type like mug or whatever.
47:33
SPEAKER_01: So people were telling me, I'm looking for a woman of color business coach.
47:37
SPEAKER_01: I'm looking for a woman of color career coach.
47:39
SPEAKER_01: Those were the exact words, right?
47:41
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
47:41
SPEAKER_01: For clients who came to me that was not a referral and they found me using those words through Instagram.
47:47
SPEAKER_01: I was just thinking, what if I do this with Google?
47:49
SPEAKER_01: And the reason why I started thinking of that is because I was looking for a hotel in Santa Barbara because my partner and I were planning a trip.
47:55
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, if I'm Googling this, people are Googling me.
47:58
SPEAKER_01: And I I had I maybe it's my little competitive thing in me or spirit.
48:03
SPEAKER_01: I was like, I'm pretty sure no one else is doing this.
48:07
SPEAKER_01: I see a lot of coaches investing on Instagram.
48:09
SPEAKER_01: This is kind of like a gold mine.
48:11
SPEAKER_01: Let me just test it.
48:12
SPEAKER_01: So I did test it.
48:14
SPEAKER_00: And then I was working with someone.
48:15
SPEAKER_00: So I also brought up the idea with you and you started working with him.
48:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
48:20
SPEAKER_01: And it took, I will say it did take.
48:24
SPEAKER_01: I started working with him in March.
48:26
SPEAKER_01: And then it wasn't until October where I got my first paying client.
48:30
SPEAKER_01: April, May, June, July, August, October, October.
48:32
SPEAKER_01: That was seven months.
48:33
SPEAKER_01: Seven months is not bad.
48:34
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
48:34
SPEAKER_01: Seven months is not bad.
48:36
SPEAKER_01: Seven months.
48:37
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
48:37
SPEAKER_01: And and and what I'm doing right now in my own business is I'm testing Yelp.
48:41
SPEAKER_01: And literally within two weeks, I got my first client.
48:44
SPEAKER_00: So I've been thinking And also because you had all those other things in place.
48:47
SPEAKER_00: Like that's the thing too, is like these platforms in a vacuum is not holistic.
48:53
SPEAKER_00: So if you've put a lot of work into having the podcast and doing like consistent email, and also to like, I know we didn't before SEO, we didn't like say this, but like when we checked in, we were like, cool, you don't have to do this content as much as we're doing it right now.
49:09
SPEAKER_00: It's working, but also we only need to do half of it.
49:13
SPEAKER_00: Like we don't need to do it all the time.
49:14
SPEAKER_00: Oh, we're actually probably cannibalizing our own like content by doing it so much, by doing it weekly.
49:20
SPEAKER_00: So we were like, let's do news later newsletters two times a month and podcast two times a month.
49:25
SPEAKER_00: So you're now you're down to one email a week.
49:27
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
49:28
SPEAKER_01: I was basically doing a podcast and newsletter once a week.
49:32
SPEAKER_01: That was twice.
49:33
SPEAKER_01: That's eight pieces of content doing law-form content.
49:36
SPEAKER_01: And the reality was hundreds of- And blogs on top of that.
49:39
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
49:39
SPEAKER_01: And the reality was I haven't had so much vacation scheduled.
49:43
SPEAKER_01: I was in Scotland and Hawaii.
49:44
SPEAKER_01: I had nine weeks of vacation in 2022.
49:47
SPEAKER_01: And I wanted to enjoy it, not be stressed out in content.
49:50
SPEAKER_01: So it was a selfish reason why I also went down in content.
49:54
SPEAKER_01: But the reality is my content quality was better than the quantity.
49:59
SPEAKER_01: So let's talk about that, Monica.
50:01
SPEAKER_01: Let's talk about quality over quantity.
50:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, let's talk about that and talk about all the things that go into the SEO strategy, the podcast, having audio on your website.
50:10
SPEAKER_00: The website, like, here's the thing.
50:12
SPEAKER_00: I know you were talking about not having one.
50:13
SPEAKER_00: I'm not going to be the person that's like, you need this state-of-the-art website immediately when you start your business.
50:18
SPEAKER_00: You don't.
50:19
SPEAKER_00: Also, we're not talking to people who are first starting their business.
50:22
SPEAKER_00: So no, but like, so that's like pretty kind of irrelevant at the moment.
50:26
SPEAKER_00: But also, and at the end of the day, you need your own corner of the internet that is not like, we're all, you know, there are platforms that we are, you know, that kind of control the things that we do because we have to use a WordPress or a Squarespace or an email marketing platform.
50:39
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes that'll be things that happen with those.
50:41
SPEAKER_00: But you do need a corner of your internet that isn't just an Instagram.
50:44
SPEAKER_00: Because it's like, first of all, people don't get the full picture on Instagram.
50:48
SPEAKER_00: Second of all, like you don't, if something happens there, you don't want to have all your content and the only proof of your content and service on a platform that you can't control.
50:58
SPEAKER_00: So I think like that's really important.
51:00
SPEAKER_00: And also just to be transparent about to make your website SEO optimized to really make it convert folks and give them the full picture takes time and it takes effort.
51:09
SPEAKER_00: And it really takes like changing your copy based on your keywords.
51:12
SPEAKER_00: It really takes creating blog posts that really speak to the people you want to reach and having like, you know, those.
51:18
SPEAKER_00: And I think like a lot of people think that SEO is robotic.
51:21
SPEAKER_00: You don't have to write blogs that are robotic to get keywords in them.
51:24
SPEAKER_00: Like that's just not true.
51:25
SPEAKER_00: You can write things and then like later add the keywords in ways that feel like they flow.
51:31
SPEAKER_00: But also, you know, it's like thinking about those things, thinking about a website that works for people.
51:36
SPEAKER_00: I remember when you first launched your website, it took a really long time to load.
51:40
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Elaine, your websites taking 30 seconds to load.
51:45
SPEAKER_00: Like no one's gonna like wait for that.
51:47
SPEAKER_00: Like you're gonna lose people.
51:48
SPEAKER_00: You know, and I did, I was.
51:50
SPEAKER_00: And you were, yeah.
51:51
SPEAKER_00: And so it's like really it's really important to think about those little things and the user experience because the user experience, if you think about any anyone you interact with, if you go to a restaurant, if you have like a service provider, like when little things like hiccups happen that like lessen the user experience, that's when you don't want to go to those places again.
52:10
SPEAKER_00: So it's really important to think about that experience for people.
52:13
SPEAKER_00: And that includes your website, that includes, you know, what people like feel and think when they get there and like experience they have.
52:20
SPEAKER_00: So I think that long-term strategy is very intricate.
52:24
SPEAKER_00: It takes time to think about.
52:26
SPEAKER_00: You're not gonna be able to do it all at one time, which is something to think about too.
52:30
SPEAKER_00: Like you're creating all these like things that eventually all come together, but you know, it's not gonna happen at once.
52:36
SPEAKER_00: You're not gonna be able to just do all these things and test all these things at one time because you will lose it.
52:41
SPEAKER_00: It's too much.
52:42
SPEAKER_00: So it's really this like building blocks on top of each other.
52:45
SPEAKER_00: But the foundation of it, generally speaking, is a website that paints a picture for people that people can get a hold of you in and that they see like the holistic like picture of your business, essentially.
52:57
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, so I'm gonna do a plug for my website right now.
53:00
SPEAKER_01: You can go to ElaineLew.com forward slash blog if you want to check out all the blogs.
53:04
SPEAKER_01: But the reason why I was loading for such a long time was because I had videos and photos.
53:09
SPEAKER_01: I was very intentional because you do have to think, and I hate the word competitors.
53:13
SPEAKER_01: Is there a better word for competitors?
53:16
SPEAKER_01: Colleagues, maybe I don't know.
53:18
SPEAKER_01: I don't know what to say.
53:19
SPEAKER_01: Or people in your industry.
53:21
SPEAKER_01: I just knew a lot of people in the coaching industry on their websites, you go there, it's pictures of them, just them as an individual.
53:29
SPEAKER_01: You don't see them with people.
53:31
SPEAKER_01: Community is very huge for me.
53:33
SPEAKER_01: One, two, I'm a coach for women of color.
53:36
SPEAKER_01: Diversity is very big.
53:37
SPEAKER_01: And yes, I do identify as Asian American, I'm Filipino, but diversity in other ethnicities, genders, age, I wanted to show it.
53:45
SPEAKER_01: So if you look at my website, website at ElaineLew.com, there are all these beautiful pictures with me with clients, not stock images, by the way.
53:54
SPEAKER_01: It's clear that right this is me at events and meetings with my clients.
53:59
SPEAKER_01: And so we were thinking about putting that.
54:02
SPEAKER_01: Obviously, we had to do edits where it can't be a minute video.
54:05
SPEAKER_01: It's 15 seconds, there's videos throughout.
54:07
SPEAKER_01: That was the aisles.
54:09
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
54:09
SPEAKER_01: And also if you notice, there is a page where it goes to newsletter as well.
54:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
54:15
SPEAKER_01: And I'm trying to think what else we did.
54:18
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
54:18
SPEAKER_01: I'm just like rambling.
54:19
SPEAKER_01: Go ahead, Monica.
54:20
SPEAKER_01: Anything else you want to add?
54:22
SPEAKER_00: No, I think it's just important.
54:23
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
54:23
SPEAKER_00: And I think, yeah, like you said, competitors.
54:25
SPEAKER_00: It's like, I mean, just look at other websites that you like the flow of, you know, it's like nothing is original at this point.
54:30
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's just not like we like we are like, yeah.
54:34
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's like you don't want to like, you know, copy paste like the format of someone's website, but you can be like, oh, I like this on this website, I like how this goes, and really thinking about like the user flow of it.
54:45
SPEAKER_00: And I did a website with someone, and you can go down socially inclined and at the bottom, you can link out to their business as well.
54:52
SPEAKER_00: But we were really intentional about how we wanted people to engage in the website and having it be like my personality too.
54:59
SPEAKER_00: So for me, it's like I have a choose your own adventure thing because I'm just yeah, it's cool.
55:04
SPEAKER_00: And it's just like I was able to kind of give people options of how to interact with me.
55:08
SPEAKER_00: And there's like, you know, there's like high-key ones and low-key ones, and people can decide where they're at with me, but also put my personality in it and also make it very simple for people to interact with it.
55:17
SPEAKER_00: Like there's three different channels I want people to decide whether they want where they want to go.
55:21
SPEAKER_00: And that way I have different ways of engaging with them based on the adventure they chose, right?
55:26
SPEAKER_00: Like that's like a very simple marketing funnel, essentially, that I've made into something fun.
55:30
SPEAKER_00: And I think there are ways to do it uniquely to you, but thinking about like this is the place you want people to go.
55:37
SPEAKER_00: How do you get people to do what makes more what makes sense for them and what makes sense for you when they get there?
55:43
SPEAKER_00: And it doesn't have to be complicated.
55:44
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't have to take a long time, and it doesn't have to be a really like intricate, built-out website.
55:50
SPEAKER_00: You can find people that can do a simple thing for you.
55:52
SPEAKER_00: If right now you want to do it by your own on your by your like self on Squarespace or something like that, you can.
55:58
SPEAKER_00: I know eventually, you know, some people that's not like their skill set.
56:01
SPEAKER_00: And so it's like thinking about what you want, really like mapping it out and then having that intention when you work with someone.
56:08
SPEAKER_00: And that way, like, and they're experts too.
56:10
SPEAKER_00: Like my the person I like hired to do my website had their own like opinions about things, and I took those into account because I'm like, okay, well, you're the one who creates websites, you've seen more, you know what works.
56:21
SPEAKER_00: So I think it's also like respecting people's experience and like taking their lead, you know, when you're when you're building these things.
56:29
SPEAKER_00: Take your ego out the door.
56:31
SPEAKER_00: And yeah.
56:33
SPEAKER_00: It's yeah, I mean, trust your gut too.
56:35
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you want to make sure it's like something you're proud of sending people to.
56:38
SPEAKER_00: That's why I always tell people like, even if it's simple, even if it's something like that is just like really like this is what I do, here's how to contact me.
56:46
SPEAKER_00: Like, you want to feel good about sending people to it.
56:48
SPEAKER_00: Otherwise, you won't.
56:49
SPEAKER_00: And that's a problem.
56:50
SPEAKER_00: Like, that's a problem.
56:52
SPEAKER_01: Like, are you because websites give credibility?
56:54
unknown: Yeah.
56:55
SPEAKER_00: Websites just give credibility.
56:56
SPEAKER_00: They just do.
56:57
SPEAKER_00: Having a website is a source of credibility.
56:59
SPEAKER_01: I think in general, not just website, but are you excited and happy to do whatever you're doing in terms of marketing or in your business, right?
57:07
SPEAKER_01: Like, I just wasn't feeling it with social media, but hey, I've always wanted to have a talk talk show host.
57:13
SPEAKER_01: Well, podcast is a thing.
57:14
SPEAKER_01: Let me go do it.
57:15
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
57:16
SPEAKER_01: I love Venga.
57:17
SPEAKER_01: I love live journal and Tumblr.
57:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
57:19
SPEAKER_00: You know what?
57:20
SPEAKER_00: And you did daily lives when you started your business, live on Instagram and Facebook daily.
57:25
SPEAKER_00: I know in your like second year.
57:27
SPEAKER_00: And it's like now you have a platform where you get to do those things, where you get to talk about the things you like.
57:32
SPEAKER_00: It's still like, you know, it's still real talk vibes.
57:34
SPEAKER_00: And but you don't have to do it every day, and you don't have to do it live, and you get to do it in a way that now serves your like energy and where you're at in your life.
57:42
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
57:42
SPEAKER_01: And actually, you know, if there's clients or people in my audience that said, oh my God, how do you do things every day?
57:48
SPEAKER_01: That's a lot.
57:49
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, great.
57:50
SPEAKER_01: You know what I love is bragging that I had nine weeks of vacation in 2022.
57:55
SPEAKER_01: That's the type of success I want.
57:57
SPEAKER_01: That's where we're at now.
57:58
unknown: Yeah.
57:58
SPEAKER_01: And you know, something I did that that is not what you see in the coaching industry is I it's not so highly dependent on sales pages.
58:08
SPEAKER_01: What was fascinating, what we found out, was my calls convert.
58:13
SPEAKER_01: So if you go to my website, ElaineLew.com, anywhere on the page, you'll notice call to action to do a call with me, which is doing a complimentary legacy business and review call.
58:24
SPEAKER_01: And it is it is free.
58:27
SPEAKER_01: But what I found is when people have a taste of my coaching, people end up wanting to work with me or maybe not, and that's okay.
58:34
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
58:35
SPEAKER_01: But it's an invitation.
58:37
SPEAKER_01: That's what works.
58:37
SPEAKER_01: The whole like, yeah, let me put my name in, fill out a form doesn't work.
58:41
SPEAKER_01: If anything you found out, okay, let's have them schedule a call.
58:44
SPEAKER_01: And then I personally reach out to them, send them a personal message, and remind them to fill out a form.
58:48
SPEAKER_00: And that's like dependent on your business, right?
58:50
SPEAKER_00: Like, or dependent on how you work.
58:52
SPEAKER_00: Like I've that's been my like approach my entire career, is that people, when they get to interact with me, they get to feel how I approach things and my personality.
59:02
SPEAKER_00: And that's generally how I get clients is that they like them, they like the vibe and they like how I approach things.
59:08
SPEAKER_00: And if I don't give them that opportunity, people aren't gonna hire me.
59:11
SPEAKER_00: So it's like, you know, like there's a lot of people out there like with similar resumes.
59:16
SPEAKER_00: What I do is not unique, essentially.
59:18
SPEAKER_00: Like there are a lot of marketing people that do exactly what I do.
59:21
SPEAKER_00: So it's like, what is it about me that makes people want to hire me?
59:24
SPEAKER_00: And it won't make everyone want to hire me, by the way.
59:27
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
59:28
SPEAKER_00: Not everyone.
59:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
59:30
SPEAKER_00: I mean, but it's like, I need to show them, like, it's a trust building, right?
59:34
SPEAKER_00: It's not like, oh, I know how to do this, so like hire me.
59:37
SPEAKER_00: It's like, no, let me give you, like, like you said, a taste.
59:39
SPEAKER_00: I even have, and you probably I think you do too, but I even go further and like the first thing I want people to hire me for is a package called Run the Tape, which is basically like a marketing review.
59:50
SPEAKER_00: And it's really extensive.
59:52
SPEAKER_00: So I do charge, I think it's a thousand dollars.
59:54
SPEAKER_00: But it's like a thousand dollars payment plans.
59:57
SPEAKER_00: A lot of the time, like people sign down for that because I'm like, I'm gonna give you the information, I'm gonna give you next steps and just hand it to you.
1:00:03
SPEAKER_00: So whether you want to work with me further or not, doesn't matter.
1:00:06
SPEAKER_00: You're gonna get all this information.
1:00:08
SPEAKER_00: But I would say 90% of the time, people continue working with me because I know if I can show them my approach and my strengths in this industry that I've worked in for 15 years, that there's a good chance that they're gonna want to continue to work with me because I'm confident in what I do and I'm a confident in the way that I approach it.
1:00:25
SPEAKER_00: And so I think like having those introductory offers, if you have a business like mine, or depending on what it is, is really important because if people don't just trust you because you have experience, because you say you have experience.
1:00:37
SPEAKER_00: Like in that case, they could see how I work, they could see I know what I'm doing because I was able to kind of break down their business and give them tangible next steps that they could start immediately to help them.
1:00:46
SPEAKER_01: And especially if you have a high-ticket offer like for both of us.
1:00:51
SPEAKER_01: Right.
1:00:51
SPEAKER_01: You need you need an ease in period.
1:00:53
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:00:54
SPEAKER_01: And yeah.
1:00:55
SPEAKER_01: And the climate of the internet or online has changed because I know there's so much users online and it's yeah, what, 2023?
1:01:06
SPEAKER_00: People are apprehensive.
1:01:07
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:01:07
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:01:08
SPEAKER_00: Because of horrible experiences before.
1:01:10
SPEAKER_00: Because of horrible experience.
1:01:11
SPEAKER_00: And I find that a lot in my industry.
1:01:12
SPEAKER_00: People have a lot of bad experiences with marketers.
1:01:15
SPEAKER_00: And I think for me too, like that intro offer of a thousand dollar investment, which for a lot of for the businesses I want to work with is doable.
1:01:24
SPEAKER_00: Like that's also for me.
1:01:26
SPEAKER_00: It's not just for them.
1:01:27
SPEAKER_00: I don't want to take a$10,000 contract or whatever it is, even a$5,000,$3,000 contract with people and then go into the situation and be like, shit, like this is, I can't do much about this because of X, Y, and Z, or I don't want to be in this situation.
1:01:42
SPEAKER_00: I actually don't want to work in like the like condition that like this marketing strategy is in.
1:01:49
SPEAKER_00: So it's not just for them.
1:01:51
SPEAKER_00: It's also for me.
1:01:52
SPEAKER_00: Like, I need to make sure that I want to be a part of the situation so I can give it my all and I can say, I can get you results.
1:01:59
SPEAKER_00: And with that like intro offer, when I look at their business, I can either be like, I can probably get you these results.
1:02:05
SPEAKER_00: I'm confident, and these are the things, or here's some things that you can implement on your own right away.
1:02:09
SPEAKER_00: Or like, actually, I feel like you doing this and maybe hiring this person for something else is better for you right now.
1:02:16
SPEAKER_00: Not necessarily because I'm like, ooh, I can't do it, but I look at it and I'm like, I'm not the next step for you.
1:02:22
SPEAKER_00: Someone else is the next step for you, maybe.
1:02:23
SPEAKER_00: Like someone to maybe like, you know, help you with your website, someone to help you with your processes, someone to like do XYZ and get some things off your plate.
1:02:32
SPEAKER_00: So then you can focus on your marketing strategy.
1:02:35
SPEAKER_01: Well, which is why you and I are such great referral partners for one another, right?
1:02:38
SPEAKER_01: So if someone like needs help with marketing, I'm like, I could help you, but I wouldn't say I'm the expert.
1:02:43
SPEAKER_01: So go to Monica, or you could go into one of my containers because you get both of us.
1:02:47
SPEAKER_01: Or I know you've referred me so many clients when it comes to business strategy because you're like, Elaine, I can't hold space with them the way that you do.
1:02:54
SPEAKER_00: So Right.
1:02:55
SPEAKER_00: And that's the thing, is like, I was just gonna say that.
1:02:57
SPEAKER_00: You like read my mind because I'm like, I am trauma informed in the work that I do with clients, but my title is a strategist, is a consultant.
1:03:05
SPEAKER_00: I'm not a coach.
1:03:06
SPEAKER_00: So for me, I'm like, I'm here to help you grow your business, to help you cut things out that aren't working.
1:03:12
SPEAKER_00: I do it in a way where I am like considerate of people.
1:03:14
SPEAKER_00: I'm not just coming in and super cutthroat.
1:03:16
SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't want to be like that.
1:03:17
SPEAKER_00: I want to feel through it with people, but I'm also not a coach.
1:03:20
SPEAKER_00: I'm also like, I'm not gonna be that person that's asking you probing questions that you find the answers to.
1:03:26
SPEAKER_00: I'm here to give you some answers and I'm here to consider what you want within those answers.
1:03:30
SPEAKER_00: But that's like, that's what I'm here for, you know?
1:03:32
SPEAKER_00: So it's like really considering what you want to offer and being like, I'm actually not the person for that, but I have someone who is the person for that, you know.
1:03:41
SPEAKER_01: For those that don't know the difference between like coaching and strategy, strategy and consulting, like you're giving that strategy and consulting coaching.
1:03:47
SPEAKER_01: You do give strategy, but obviously asking permission, right?
1:03:50
SPEAKER_01: Like, would you ask if you want feedback, but also making sure that it's an alignment to what you want.
1:03:56
SPEAKER_01: That's what I do as a coach.
1:03:58
SPEAKER_01: And I will say, I will be transparent.
1:04:01
SPEAKER_01: I had to relearn a lot of things that I was taught in the coaching industry to make sure I am one trauma informed and making sure there's safe space for my clients.
1:04:11
SPEAKER_01: That was another thing that we decided where I had to be honest with myself.
1:04:15
SPEAKER_01: These are great photos and videos at my events, but is it creating a safe environment for my clients to be vulnerable and honest, not necessarily for me, but for themselves.
1:04:24
SPEAKER_01: So we tested this at my last retreat where I didn't have a photographer, videographer.
1:04:30
SPEAKER_01: I had my retreat manager do an hour of photos, but it was during an hour break asking permission if people wanted photos.
1:04:37
SPEAKER_01: And that was it.
1:04:37
SPEAKER_01: And we even noticed a difference when we did a debrief of the retreat.
1:04:41
SPEAKER_01: Like, wow, people were a lot more vulnerable because they weren't on.
1:04:44
SPEAKER_01: And the STAP photos and videos throughout events and retreats that we see from people in this industry.
1:04:50
SPEAKER_01: I wouldn't be honest.
1:04:51
SPEAKER_01: I was being selfish for myself, not keeping in mind what my clients wanted.
1:04:55
SPEAKER_01: And I'm here as a coach.
1:04:58
SPEAKER_01: Anyways, thoughts.
1:04:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I think it's important to like distinguish that too is like, I think, like for me as a strategist or consultant, I'm like I said, I'm not coat throat cutthroat or anything like that.
1:05:07
SPEAKER_00: I'm not like, I don't care what you want to do.
1:05:09
SPEAKER_00: This is what's gonna get you results.
1:05:10
SPEAKER_00: So do it.
1:05:11
SPEAKER_00: Like, that is not my approach.
1:05:12
SPEAKER_00: And that is some people's approach.
1:05:14
SPEAKER_00: It's not mine.
1:05:15
SPEAKER_00: And you did hire me to get you results.
1:05:18
SPEAKER_00: So I'm not just gonna tell you what you want to hear all the time.
1:05:21
SPEAKER_00: So there are those, like, you know, those realities that exist.
1:05:25
SPEAKER_00: Like you hired me for a certain reason.
1:05:27
SPEAKER_00: And if I can't like really like, if you're not open, so the thing for me is like I work with clients who are like, I want you to tell me what to do.
1:05:34
SPEAKER_00: Like, I want you to tell me like my next steps.
1:05:37
SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't want to try to figure it out on my own.
1:05:39
SPEAKER_00: Like, that's why people hire me.
1:05:41
SPEAKER_00: So I have been welcomed to tell people what I think they should do, and I think that's an important distinction.
1:05:46
SPEAKER_00: And also, even like I, you know, I'll plug like I I work with something called leadership designs that I was I've been certified in by Sarah Turner and Rachel Turner.
1:05:55
SPEAKER_00: And you can go to my website and take the quiz to see like what leadership design is yours, which is Really great because it just kind of like informs you on how you interact with the world and what translates to your business as well.
1:06:05
SPEAKER_00: But I work with a lot of folks who are nurturers who very much don't.
1:06:11
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you included, and very much like don't want to be pushy.
1:06:15
SPEAKER_00: It's like very emotionally driven.
1:06:16
SPEAKER_00: They want to make sure they're holding good space.
1:06:18
SPEAKER_00: They don't really like to sell all that much.
1:06:20
SPEAKER_00: They really can also like get burnt out because they don't put boundaries with their clients, they don't do those things.
1:06:26
SPEAKER_00: And I was having trouble in the beginning of that because I'm like, I'm a very like, I'm not, it's not that I'm not a nurturing person, I'm a considerate and like empathetic person.
1:06:35
SPEAKER_00: But when it comes to like business and even life, like I'm very much like, I have big ideas, I can implement those ideas, and I want that for other people.
1:06:44
SPEAKER_00: And I think like when I was like going through that certification in leadership designs, I was like, okay, I'm having this challenge.
1:06:49
SPEAKER_00: And I was asking Rachel and Sarah, who've created them through like a, you know, one of them has an MBA in like leadership.
1:06:56
SPEAKER_00: Like they are very like qualified to be doing these things.
1:06:59
SPEAKER_00: I was like, I attract a lot of nurturers.
1:07:01
SPEAKER_00: I'm trying to get them to do the things that they say they want to do.
1:07:03
SPEAKER_00: I'm trying to help them grow, but they're just resistant and I don't know how to deal with that, you know?
1:07:08
SPEAKER_00: And so that was like a challenge I was going through.
1:07:11
SPEAKER_00: And their advice, and I think it's like, you know, really good to think about this as people who are helping people and who are being helped by people, is like, they hired you to do a thing.
1:07:20
SPEAKER_00: They hired you because they wanted you to push them to do this thing.
1:07:23
SPEAKER_00: So it's like, it's okay to be like, I understand that maybe you don't like want to sell in this way and you don't have to.
1:07:31
SPEAKER_00: And you did hire me to get you this amount of money from your business.
1:07:36
SPEAKER_00: So I just want to remind you that you hired me because you want that.
1:07:40
SPEAKER_00: And I'm gonna like consider like what you want to do, but there are also things that you're probably gonna have to do that you're gonna that feel uncomfortable at first, but are gonna get you to where you want to be.
1:07:50
SPEAKER_00: And I think like there's a distinction between you don't have to do anything you want to do, and okay, this feels like it feels weird because I've never done it before, but I feel okay about what I'm doing because it's not harmful.
1:08:03
SPEAKER_00: And really pushing yourself out of that like comfort zone, you know, because it's not, it's just not gonna be comfortable.
1:08:09
SPEAKER_00: Having your own business is just not always comfortable.
1:08:11
SPEAKER_00: That's just it.
1:08:12
SPEAKER_00: We can't even pretend like it's gonna be.
1:08:14
SPEAKER_01: No, it's not.
1:08:15
SPEAKER_01: It's a lot of I mean, thank God for therapists as well, but being being honest with yourself where you're at and business and life, yeah, and being honest with something that's just something that you used to love doing, whether it's serving a specific type of clientele or it's doing away what you're doing in marketing, it may have worked and it was great, and you did love it.
1:08:38
SPEAKER_01: The hard part is being honest with yourself of I don't love it anymore.
1:08:41
SPEAKER_01: What's going on?
1:08:42
SPEAKER_00: How does that evolved?
1:08:43
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, or it's not working anymore.
1:08:45
SPEAKER_00: I still love it, but it's not working anymore.
1:08:46
SPEAKER_00: And also, and how many times in our relationship have we challenged each other?
1:08:50
SPEAKER_00: Like you as my coach and me as your strategist, how many times have we been like, okay, and also I'm gonna push you on this because I know it's gonna help you?
1:08:59
SPEAKER_00: Can I push you on this?
1:09:00
SPEAKER_00: Which we always do, we always ask.
1:09:02
SPEAKER_00: But it's like, how many times have we done that where we're like, yo, reality check a little bit here in both directions?
1:09:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it is.
1:09:11
SPEAKER_01: So I'm just so grateful that just being honest with myself.
1:09:16
SPEAKER_01: And I think living in the society where, you know, the holidays being over with Amazon Prime, you get things in two days, right?
1:09:23
SPEAKER_01: In one day, we think that's the same thing with marketing.
1:09:26
SPEAKER_01: Like, okay, I do this post, I got five clients, then I have to do posts every single day.
1:09:30
SPEAKER_00: But do you know how much money Amazon spends on marketing?
1:09:33
SPEAKER_00: Like I don't know, but I know it's a wild amount of money, by the way.
1:09:37
SPEAKER_00: So just think about that when you're seeing other people's businesses that if they are that big, they are spending so much money on marketing.
1:09:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and they still get a return on that investment, but they have a lot of money to spend.
1:09:49
SPEAKER_00: So that's why they're that successful.
1:09:51
SPEAKER_00: And I'm not saying that people can't be if they don't, but just like keep it in perspective.
1:09:55
SPEAKER_00: Like the amount of ads and and like, you know, dollars that go into getting in front of people's faces that Amazon or a company like that uses is also probably too big for us to perceive, even.
1:10:08
SPEAKER_01: Well, also that's a low-ticket offer, right?
1:10:11
SPEAKER_01: They are products.
1:10:12
SPEAKER_01: Right.
1:10:12
SPEAKER_01: Let's talk about the reality of high-ticket offers, right?
1:10:16
SPEAKER_01: Something that both you and I have that a lot of our listeners do.
1:10:19
SPEAKER_01: They have a high ticket offer of how growth means something else when it comes to high ticket offer.
1:10:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, growth means something else, engagement means something else.
1:10:29
SPEAKER_00: Like you're looking for quality over quantity, and that doesn't mean in people, that just means in the like again.
1:10:36
SPEAKER_00: Everything.
1:10:37
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, just quality over quantity in the sense that like you're not trying to attract as many people as possible.
1:10:43
SPEAKER_00: And let's put it in the like, if you have a membership or a product, like if you're selling like a planner or something, or you have a membership, like this is this is like this costs$50 or$100 a month or$25 a month, whatever it costs, you know, like that's a way easier sell.
1:10:58
SPEAKER_00: You're gonna have other like obstacles with that and like keeping it consistent and whatever.
1:11:03
SPEAKER_00: But if you're trying to attract people who are gonna spend thousands of dollars with you, this is not something that's gonna be like cast a wide net and see what comes in.
1:11:11
SPEAKER_00: Like, that's not the strategy.
1:11:13
SPEAKER_00: The strategy is like Elaine was saying, is very being very intentional with the content.
1:11:17
SPEAKER_00: We are very intentional with the messaging and being like, this is who we want.
1:11:21
SPEAKER_00: We have to put that out there and then like to to help them come to us.
1:11:26
SPEAKER_00: And so I think it's a lot of like, you're not staring at your email newsletter list, you're not staring at your follower list and being like, oh my God, like it's not growing.
1:11:35
SPEAKER_00: You're like looking at the engagement in your emails that have gone up 13, 14%, who you know are folks that you want on that list because they've done research on Google, they've done research on Yelp, they've like looked at your blog, they've done all these things, they've booked a call, which by the way, like a lot of your calls come from people finding you on Google and then they do like a clean sweep of your all your marketing.
1:11:58
SPEAKER_00: Listening to my episode materials.
1:12:00
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:12:00
SPEAKER_01: If you're a listener, you're probably listening to my episode because you scheduled a call with me or you want to work with me.
1:12:05
SPEAKER_01: Like, we're just so intense because I want to work with people who are intentional.
1:12:10
SPEAKER_01: I don't want to work with someone that, like I said, I posted a picture of a bikini and you want to work with me.
1:12:16
SPEAKER_01: I'm a business coach.
1:12:17
SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm not trying to sell a product or influencer.
1:12:20
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:12:21
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:12:22
SPEAKER_00: Or yourself, like in a sense where it's like you sell your approach and and the experience you have, but like that has to shine through for the people you want to work with.
1:12:30
SPEAKER_00: They're not going to be fooled.
1:12:32
SPEAKER_00: The people you want to work with are not going to be fooled by shiny objects, like, period.
1:12:35
SPEAKER_00: And if you have high-ticket offers, like shiny objects are not a like sustainable strategy for you.
1:12:41
SPEAKER_00: Like building credibility in the sense of not being like, oh, this person knows me and I know like I'm around these people.
1:12:47
SPEAKER_00: Building credibility in results.
1:12:48
SPEAKER_00: That's like the school industry that I'm leaving.
1:12:52
SPEAKER_00: I know.
1:12:52
SPEAKER_00: I know.
1:12:53
SPEAKER_00: It's like building credibility in results, building credibility within the approach you take.
1:12:58
SPEAKER_00: We've created like the messaging around a the like color your dreams approach that Elaine uses with her clients is very transparent about how this looks, is very transparent about the results that you see and also the variance of those results based on people's identities and where they're at.
1:13:14
SPEAKER_00: And I think it's like the long-term strategy is like you're transparent about how things go, how things go.
1:13:20
SPEAKER_00: You're not like the people, you know what they want, and it's not shiny objects.
1:13:24
SPEAKER_00: It's not short-term success.
1:13:25
SPEAKER_00: And so I think it's about if you have high ticket offers, it's like thinking about God, you really have to dig deep into what people want that are hiring you.
1:13:33
SPEAKER_00: Because if you don't know, you're not gonna be able to one, give them the experience you want, and two, even get them in the door.
1:13:39
SPEAKER_00: You're gonna be doing a lot of calls that reveal that you're not really attracting the people you want because you haven't really dug into that question.
1:13:47
SPEAKER_00: And I think a lot of it is like, a lot of it is that process is really taking the time.
1:13:52
SPEAKER_00: Because if you don't take the time, you're just gonna be like throwing spaghetti at the wall and like being like, shit, I just spent all that time and I didn't really say who I wanted to work with.
1:14:01
SPEAKER_00: And now I've spent a lot of time not getting clients and also spent the time on a lot of calls with people who aren't ready or aren't actually in the position that I want that I'm able to help them the most.
1:14:11
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:14:12
SPEAKER_01: And going back to the first question I asked you with the numbers and data, we were looking, my my top podcast episode is why I ended my mastermind and simplified my business.
1:14:22
SPEAKER_01: That's number one.
1:14:23
SPEAKER_01: And number two was identity crisis in your business or career and how to match it with your life.
1:14:28
SPEAKER_01: So taking that is it actually matches what we did intentionally for the mission of my business, which we we rewrote together, which is creating a sustainable and equitable business career in life.
1:14:41
SPEAKER_01: So simplicity, sustainability, that's all shown.
1:14:46
SPEAKER_01: And sure, I don't have big numbers in terms of I have X number of email lists, X number of listeners every single week.
1:14:52
SPEAKER_01: But that's what people have wanted from me.
1:14:54
SPEAKER_01: And I'm not saying that's for you, the listener.
1:14:57
SPEAKER_01: You just need to look at what is working and do you enjoy talking about all of that?
1:15:02
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:15:03
SPEAKER_01: I I just own the fact, you know what?
1:15:05
SPEAKER_01: I don't need to have a million followers.
1:15:07
SPEAKER_01: I don't need to try to play this light game.
1:15:10
SPEAKER_01: And I think it was last year we're like, I just want to be a damn good coach for my clients and let that let their results and not necessarily for money, but even just having a life speak for themselves.
1:15:22
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:15:23
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:15:23
SPEAKER_00: And that's kind of speaks for itself too.
1:15:25
SPEAKER_00: I mean, we don't need to get into it, but my entire like Elaine knows, like, I don't get I don't get clients from the internet.
1:15:30
SPEAKER_00: The clients I work with in the past has all been people who have been like work with Monica because XYZ.
1:15:36
SPEAKER_00: And like when your work speaks for itself because you've been really intentional about who you work with, so they're gonna have a good experience.
1:15:42
SPEAKER_00: And even if you don't, you have like ways to like damage control, like you are prepared for what to do.
1:15:47
SPEAKER_00: You're prepared to give people a good experience, regardless, without sacrificing your own sanity, of course.
1:15:53
SPEAKER_00: But really, client relations is like the biggest marketing strategy you could ever have.
1:15:57
SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
1:15:57
SPEAKER_00: And it's like the only way to do that is authentically.
1:16:01
SPEAKER_00: Like you cannot fake that.
1:16:03
SPEAKER_00: Like they're gonna know and they're not gonna have a good experience.
1:16:06
SPEAKER_00: So it really is, like you said, you were intentional about being a really good coach.
1:16:10
SPEAKER_00: You put a lot of energy and resources into that, and you were at the same time creating a foundation of marketing that would support your credibility.
1:16:17
SPEAKER_00: And I think it's like if you're doing this long term, you don't want to have to be trying so hard to get that next lead.
1:16:22
SPEAKER_00: So think about who you want to work with and how you don't have to try so hard to get that next lead.
1:16:27
SPEAKER_00: And there's lots of ways to do that.
1:16:28
SPEAKER_00: So I'm sorry we can't give you like the exact way for your business, but we can't because everyone's unique.
1:16:33
SPEAKER_00: So we're not gonna find that answer in this, but but hopefully you can at least start thinking about who you're working with, who you want to, and like the things that you actually like to do in marketing and find a way to blend those together.
1:16:47
SPEAKER_01: I wanted to share at one of my events that you attended, Monica.
1:16:50
SPEAKER_01: So one of my former clients, a good friend of mine, Erica Audrey, we were talking about referrals, right?
1:16:55
SPEAKER_01: Because I have, let me look at my stats right now.
1:16:59
SPEAKER_01: I have about 70% referrals and renewals right now.
1:17:01
SPEAKER_01: And then another 25% in Google SEO and 5% on IG.
1:17:06
SPEAKER_01: And we're talking about referrals.
1:17:08
SPEAKER_01: And Erica, always sharing with everyone at that event, you want to know how to get great referrals.
1:17:14
SPEAKER_01: Be damn good at what you do.
1:17:16
SPEAKER_01: That's it.
1:17:17
SPEAKER_00: That's it, period.
1:17:19
SPEAKER_00: And I know that takes time.
1:17:20
SPEAKER_00: You don't have to be good right away.
1:17:22
SPEAKER_00: Like you're gonna have client experiences where you're like, oof, that didn't go the way I wanted it to go.
1:17:26
SPEAKER_00: And that's not always your fault.
1:17:28
SPEAKER_00: Like, it just isn't.
1:17:29
SPEAKER_00: Some people hire you and they're not ready and you didn't know because you didn't know what you didn't know.
1:17:34
SPEAKER_00: And then you have to, again, damage control whatever's going on there.
1:17:37
SPEAKER_00: But it is situational.
1:17:38
SPEAKER_00: If you're able to really mend those experiences, that doesn't mean people still won't refer you.
1:17:42
SPEAKER_00: I've people, I've had people refer me where our working relationship was didn't go the way we thought it was gonna go.
1:17:48
SPEAKER_00: So we like ended the working relationship and not like personal, but just professionally, we were like, oof, this isn't working.
1:17:56
SPEAKER_00: What I do and what you do isn't meshing well.
1:17:58
SPEAKER_00: So it's just because people didn't see results from you, how you approach ending that relationship is also very important because that doesn't mean you won't get referrals because people will then respect like how you ended that, how you resolve that.
1:18:09
SPEAKER_00: Because we all know you're not always gonna mesh with people and you're not gonna know that immediately.
1:18:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:18:15
SPEAKER_00: So good.
1:18:15
SPEAKER_00: I could keep talking to you all day long.
1:18:17
SPEAKER_01: There I know you're my first guess that I'm brought in the second time because everybody loves you.
1:18:24
SPEAKER_01: So, as you know, I love ending episodes with what is one action or one reflective question, or maybe it's combined that you have for our audience here.
1:18:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's a great question.
1:18:36
SPEAKER_00: It could go in so many directions.
1:18:39
SPEAKER_01: If you want to go more than one, go ahead.
1:18:41
SPEAKER_01: You make your own rules.
1:18:43
SPEAKER_00: No, I think it's good to keep it at one.
1:18:45
SPEAKER_00: So I think my like, you know, there's a lot of like quotes out there.
1:18:49
SPEAKER_00: And I think one of my favorites that I apply to business is like, it's, I don't know if this is like exactly what it is, but it's like you can't know where you're headed unless you know where you've been.
1:18:57
SPEAKER_00: And that's like the big thing for me in marketing is like if you don't know what where you've been, what's been working, what you've, if you haven't like analyzed that at all in the past, then you you are gonna have a harder time knowing where to go moving forward.
1:19:10
SPEAKER_00: So I think like really taking a reflective look at your marketing, even it's like, cool, 90 days I can pull Instagram engagement and see what content's really resonating with people.
1:19:20
SPEAKER_00: That's a perfectly good place to see where content's resonating with people.
1:19:23
SPEAKER_00: Or like, you know, the last year or six months, I'm gonna like look at my emails and see what people are opening, where they're clicking.
1:19:30
SPEAKER_00: Really look at what pages on your website are people lingering on.
1:19:33
SPEAKER_00: What are the top pages?
1:19:34
SPEAKER_00: Just look at all those things that really create patterns in your business, whatever you use.
1:19:38
SPEAKER_00: If you have a podcast, do the same thing.
1:19:40
SPEAKER_00: And if you ask people where they find you, pay attention to that.
1:19:43
SPEAKER_00: If you don't start doing that, but really just start with a like understanding of what's resonating with people and move forward with your content and just be repetitive.
1:19:52
SPEAKER_00: Like, don't reinvent the wheel over and over again.
1:19:54
SPEAKER_00: I can't see that I gotta do a whole episode on this with you, Elaine.
1:19:57
SPEAKER_00: Like messaging.
1:19:58
SPEAKER_00: Marketing is an exercise in repetition, branding is an exercise in repetition.
1:20:03
SPEAKER_00: Repeat the messages, the core messages that resonate with people.
1:20:06
SPEAKER_00: Find those messages in your marketing data and continue with them.
1:20:10
SPEAKER_01: What's hilarious is the reason why I've hired Monica to also come in and coach in my Color Your Dreams Inner Circle.
1:20:16
SPEAKER_01: And yes, I'm doing a plug for it.
1:20:17
SPEAKER_01: It's a basically a mastermind for established entrepreneurs.
1:20:20
SPEAKER_01: You could go to lainlu.com forward slash inner circle.
1:20:23
SPEAKER_01: It's because yes, we have our both specialties.
1:20:27
SPEAKER_01: I'm a business coach, you are a marketing strategist, you come in and do monthly calls, and my clients also offer one-to-one calls in marketing.
1:20:35
SPEAKER_01: And they're going through a challenge, you say something, like, oh my God, I never thought of it that way.
1:20:40
SPEAKER_01: And then I get on a call with them.
1:20:42
SPEAKER_01: Monica said that I'm focused on LinkedIn because that's where I get clients and I don't need to be on Instagram.
1:20:48
SPEAKER_01: Monica's and then in my head, I'm like, I literally told you the same thing, but it's repetition.
1:20:54
SPEAKER_01: And if you've been, if you've listened to my podcasts, I have said same things, but you're probably like, that episode with Monica learned so much.
1:21:03
SPEAKER_01: Guys, I have said this stuff, but it's okay.
1:21:05
SPEAKER_01: Everybody ends up loving Monica.
1:21:06
SPEAKER_01: So, with that being said, with all the love you have, if people want to work with you or find you, it's the best way.
1:21:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, unsocialinclined.com is my website.
1:21:15
SPEAKER_00: Feel free to go to that.
1:21:16
SPEAKER_00: I am updating it at the moment, but this will be January.
1:21:18
SPEAKER_00: So maybe I've already updated it.
1:21:21
SPEAKER_00: Possibly.
1:21:22
SPEAKER_00: But you know, I have a business Instagram at Unsocially Incline, which I plan on doing more with in January.
1:21:28
SPEAKER_00: But honestly, like I really like just using Instagram for fun.
1:21:32
SPEAKER_00: My Instagram profile that I started just for fun like six months ago is not private.
1:21:37
SPEAKER_00: So you can you can follow me at MoneyShrock and just like see my adventures, DM me.
1:21:43
SPEAKER_00: I'm happy to talk to people there too and get to know you.
1:21:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, as well.
1:21:47
SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Monica.
1:21:49
SPEAKER_01: And also, if you want to work with both of us, I do have my inner circle.
1:21:54
SPEAKER_01: Something that I've also noticed we talked about as a marketing plan and sales plan, is a lot of people don't want to do something long-term, six months or a full year.
1:22:03
SPEAKER_01: So what I've done is like you could just do a three-month trial, check it out, see how it goes.
1:22:08
SPEAKER_01: So that's an option.
1:22:09
SPEAKER_01: But Monica, you've also worked with me for a couple of years.
1:22:13
SPEAKER_01: Do you want to share your feedback with folks listening on what you've loved or not loved working with me?
1:22:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think like from the beginning, and your coaching has evolved a lot over time too, just as like my strategic approach too is like no matter where we were in that journey, it was always like you're gonna challenge me, but you're also gonna honor the fact that like I want to do things a certain way, and I'm not, you know, you're not gonna push me to do it the way everyone else is doing it.
1:22:42
SPEAKER_00: And I think I always appreciated that.
1:22:44
SPEAKER_00: Like, cool, that strategy works for other people, but it doesn't work for me and I don't want to do it.
1:22:48
SPEAKER_00: And so you were always like very much honoring my boundaries in that way.
1:22:52
SPEAKER_00: And I think a lot of coaches at that time, and maybe even still now, don't.
1:22:56
SPEAKER_00: And a lot of strategists don't either, which is why I value doing that as well.
1:23:00
SPEAKER_00: And I think it's like really listening to your clients and then also being, yeah, but if you want to get here, here's some things, like tangible things you can do.
1:23:08
SPEAKER_00: So I think for always for me, it's been emotional support because I know how to do things.
1:23:13
SPEAKER_00: Like business is like what I do, but getting results is not something I have a problem with, but it is a lot.
1:23:18
SPEAKER_00: And I think for me, it's like having good.
1:23:21
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because I that's what I do.
1:23:24
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, being working with someone for me, working with you was more about holding emotional space and like the difficulty to difficulties it is to be on the journey of having your own business and being your own business.
1:23:35
SPEAKER_00: Like a lot of us here, we are the business.
1:23:37
SPEAKER_00: People want to work with us, and that's just what it is.
1:23:40
SPEAKER_00: And there's a lot that goes with that.
1:23:41
SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of emotional energy, there's a lot of changes, there's a lot of feelings about it.
1:23:46
SPEAKER_00: And I think, you know, obviously I have a therapist to work through some of that, but it is nice to have someone who understands it and to build a community around it.
1:23:52
SPEAKER_00: So I think I liked inner circle and working with you for that, where it's like, we're all going through it, we're all in different places with it, and it was really nice.
1:24:00
SPEAKER_00: It's been really nice to have like a place to just take a breath and be like, okay, I'm in a spot where people understand.
1:24:06
SPEAKER_00: I'm not at home during a holiday where people are like, what are you even doing?
1:24:10
SPEAKER_00: It's like, no, you're in a group where it's like people know what you're doing, they know what you're going for, and they understand how hard it is and how fun it is.
1:24:16
SPEAKER_00: Because it's not always hard.
1:24:17
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it's just fucking amazing.
1:24:19
SPEAKER_00: And you get to celebrate those moments too.
1:24:21
SPEAKER_01: So if you want to join us, we could schedule complimentary call at eatlaytonlou.com forward slash call.
1:24:27
SPEAKER_01: Also, see what I did there.
1:24:29
SPEAKER_01: We just made it simple.
1:24:29
SPEAKER_01: You just schedule a call.
1:24:30
SPEAKER_00: So simple.
1:24:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:24:31
SPEAKER_00: Just schedule a call.
1:24:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:24:33
SPEAKER_00: I mean, so get someone to get someone to gas you up and then ask them to schedule a call.
1:24:37
SPEAKER_01: And and also what I mean, uh part, I mean, I usually don't end it with a reflective question from me when it's an interview, but my reflective question action item for you, the listener, is what can you do?
1:24:49
SPEAKER_01: One thing to make it simple in your business.
1:24:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:24:52
SPEAKER_01: That's it.
1:24:53
SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Monica.
1:24:54
SPEAKER_00: Thanks.
1:24:55
SPEAKER_00: Thanks for having me.
1:24:56
SPEAKER_00: Thanks, everyone.
1:24:56
SPEAKER_00: Thanks.
1:24:58
SPEAKER_01: Do you love Monica or do you love Monica?
1:25:01
SPEAKER_01: Because my clients do.
1:25:03
SPEAKER_01: And if you want to work with both of us, which is why I hired Monica as a marketing strategist to work with my clients.
1:25:12
SPEAKER_01: If you want to work with both uh a business coach, me, and a marketing strategist, Monica, then schedule a complimentary 30-minute legacy business review call where you will receive three action items towards your business.
1:25:28
SPEAKER_01: And by the end of the call, if it's a great fit to work together, great.
1:25:32
SPEAKER_01: We can talk about how it looks like to work together.
1:25:35
SPEAKER_01: And by the end of the call, if it's not a great fit, great.
1:25:39
SPEAKER_01: I'll just refer you to other people and resources.
1:25:41
SPEAKER_01: So it's a win-win situation either way.
1:25:43
SPEAKER_01: So you could schedule this complimentary call at elanelew.com forward slash call.
1:25:49
SPEAKER_01: Once again, it's elanelu.com forward slash call.
1:25:55
SPEAKER_01: Legacymaker, if you love this call your dreams episode, we would love it if you can leave a rating and review on Apple.
1:26:05
SPEAKER_01: So more women of color and allies can benefit too.
1:26:10
SPEAKER_01: And if you have one or two friends that would get so much from this particular episode, please share.
1:26:17
SPEAKER_01: The intention behind the Call Your Dreams podcast was to contribute and give back to our people.
1:26:24
SPEAKER_01: All right.
1:26:25
SPEAKER_01: We'll see you next Thursday for our newest Call Your Dreams episode.
1:26:30
SPEAKER_01: And don't forget to call your dreams too and create your legacy.