Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Robert Valentine about his choice of The Brain of Morbius (4/4)

Transcript

Talks to Robert Valentine about his choice of The Brain of Morbius (4/4) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:33
  A hamster with a blunt pen knife for doing quicker.
• 0:36
  Welcome back to a hamster with a blunt pen knife, the Doctor Who
• 0:40
  commentary podcasts. I'm Rob Valentine, he's Joe Ford
• 0:44
  and together we are commenting on the 4th Doctor Season 13
• 0:48
  story The Brain of Morbius. If it's to be said that I Joe
• 0:56
  Ford, who once ruled the High Council of the Time Lords, his.
• 1:01
  Brain on the floor. To a position doing this podcast
• 1:06
  where I envy a vegetable the lines are just grey on.
• 1:13
  Yes, yeah. And I think son is he is the
• 1:16
  straightforward one of the best villains.
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  Oh, no, no, no, one of the best characters in in Doctor Who.
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  He could have been. I do think it would have been a
• 1:26
  mistake to have cast Peter Cushing in the role because it
• 1:29
  would have been, oh, we're just we're we are literally
• 1:31
  transplanting hammers Frankenstein here.
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  I think Philip Maddock was the perfect choice.
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  And his, his, his, his performance is is gold.
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  But I find Cushing is always reliable, always pretty
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  fantastic in whatever role he does, even in those two Doctor
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  Who films. But I kind of place a straight
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  man a lot of the time. You know, he's the sensible one
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  in a lot of these movies, whereas I don't know if he goes
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  over the top as Maddock. I know sometimes, you know,
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  Cushing can do fun. He really can.
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  You please pop me in the direction of some of those
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  movies then, please. Oh, yeah, there's a there's a,
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  there's a Doug McClure movie. I'll, I'll aim your way.
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  Yeah, Edgar Rice Burrows territory.
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  Yeah, you know, But, you know, seriously, Cushing in in
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  sprightly fun mode is a is a sight to behold.
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  So absolutely I can. Tell me a small list, right?
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  It doesn't have to be Doctor Who adjacent.
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  Just for fun. Oh.
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  No, of course. Yeah.
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  Yeah. Well, to be honest, you know,
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  in, in, in life, I find there there is very little that isn't
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  Doctor Who adjacent because again, yeah, it's a, you know,
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  it's a very successful story. Virus is Doctor Who, as I think
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  I've said before in here, but it's a yeah.
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  I see it as this great engine of storytelling, the sucking in
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  everything as it goes, you know? It's like it's like Visa and
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  Star Trek promotion picture. Or like an enormous creative
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  black hole, you know, and every piece of media is the light
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  coming in. That's that's me every morning
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  to I've had my coffee, yes. Me too, if I'm well.
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  Look, we can't have coffee now because it's 9:00 in the
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  evening. What we can do is watch episode
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  4 of The Brain of Morbius and see if this sort of climaxes in
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  a properly Frankensteinian kind of a way.
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  Let's see. That sentence always came out.
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  I'll count as if you like. Go ahead, go ahead.
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  OK, we'll go in then. In remember to press play 321
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  down, we go down. You know me too.
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  I'll do, I'll do. Do well, here we go.
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  Yeah. Oh, good stuff.
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  You always know you improve a good time when these these
• 3:57
  credits. When is Tom?
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  Yeah. Even stuff like Underworld I can
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  watch because of Tom. The Brain of Morbius is a good
• 4:09
  title, that is. How have you gone to the the of?
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  Well, you know, right? Doctor Who stories.
• 4:18
  Sometimes I go through phases where it's like all to know, I
• 4:20
  feel like I want to, I want to avoid titles that begin with AV
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  or an of the, you know, and sometimes pathetic degree of
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  satisfaction when it's like, I've got a title that's to thee
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  or in thee or yeah, anything else.
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  But. Yeah.
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  But sometimes you just think, oh, do you know what of death?
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  And then you just you can just bask and happen.
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  Anyway. Here we go.
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  So she's staggered in. There's the brain and.
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  What you think the claw on fire is that?
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  Hang on, hang on. Hold on, Hold on.
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  No, Joe. S.
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  Hello, yeah, I've I've I've pressed 3 on.
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  Oh, you're in episode. 3 So yeah.
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  Tell you what, no. One minute I said to you then.
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  Oh no, I was going to say I will hurry.
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  Yeah. What case?
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  No, no, no. All.
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  I've got to do is just take away the last one minute and 17,
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  that's it. We'll count in again and we'll
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  start. Oh, oh, really?
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  We're not counting this as the episode because, you know.
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  What you watching episode 3? Well, now I've now actually,
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  I've gone back to episode 2. It's all it's it's all falling
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  apart. You find episode 4 I've.
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  Found it, Found it, found it, got it.
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  OK, good. I can't.
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  Listen again and we're going to start again, don't you worry.
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  Fine, OK. Should we go and watch this
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  thought? Should we go and watch this
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  thing? Yeah, I'm such a tit.
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  Yes, yeah. Don't worry, I'll take all of
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  that out. Nobody will know you.
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  Never could I you. Never.
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  I've become an amateur editor. OK.
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  Well, right, OK. Call us.
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  I I didn't, I didn't screw up at all there, listener.
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  I didn't press play on three again or anything like that.
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  That never happened. How many of these have you done
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  now? Good grief.
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  I mean, to be fair, it's just refreshing for you.
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  About to watch anything, right? I can't.
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  Once again, episode 4. Yes.
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  OK, good. Yeah, right.
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  Just because that's so fun, I'm making it all in one ball.
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  Right, there we go. OK, down the time.
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  Diddly dump, here we go. OK, good.
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  Just in case, I did edit that bit out Rob's point that we're
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  guaranteed a good time when we head down this, you know,
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  asshole, and see Tom Baker's face waiting for us at the end
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  is a guarantee of a good time, isn't it?
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  I didn't put it like that, but yes, it is.
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  Yes. Here we go.
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  Brandon Morbius by Robin Bland Part 4 Part 4 OK, here we go.
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  Cliffhanger. The monster sits up.
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  She's staggering around, getting up.
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  She's still sort of blind. Then wait.
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  Pause, pause, pause. I can see.
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  I can see again. Turn around.
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  Then the scream. That should be the cliffhanger.
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  Hey. What about?
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  When she gets knocked down the stairs, that might be pretty
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  good. You, I think you're into No, you
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  need the monster revelation there and you get the double
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  thing. If we see it, then she sees it.
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  I want the Frankenstein monster. Not liking fire is a constant
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  from James way alongwards. Yes, Yeah, yeah.
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  I think that was in every single movie that I watched.
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  Yeah. You know, shirking away from
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  fire. I don't know though, because the
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  Oh my God, Sarah, look out behind you.
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  It is a great way to end the episode for the kids, I think.
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  Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. I just, I just kind of think I,
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  I'd have, I'd have had that beat as the cliffhanger because I
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  think it'll be stronger. But yeah, I'm not right.
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  I'm just a twat on the Internet with opinions.
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  He goes. You thought I was dead again,
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  didn't you? She goes Yeah, he goes, Yeah.
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  You're always doing that, aren't you?
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  Well, we had that in Pyramids and Miles, didn't we?
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  Yes, we did. We did.
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  Well, here we are. Morbius is just really annoyed
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  at Morbius. You said you didn't mind what
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  you looked like and now he's just gone batshit.
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  Oh, come on Rob, if you looked in a mirror, I mean, look how
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  beautiful you are if you looked in a mirror and woke up like
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  that after looking like this. Bless.
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  You. My God, Come on.
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  I mean, oh, God, he's got hairy back.
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  Oh, do you know what? Right.
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  No, I won't go there. You don't need to know about.
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  Mine. Yeah, I'm.
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  Yeah. Again, like we've had this
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  discussion before. I'm, you know, I might as well
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  be heterosexual at that point anyway.
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  But not. Me, I've not got hairy back.
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  Say something about, not say something about you but.
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  I don't have a hairy back like Morbius.
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  Good grief. And now look, they're now then
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  Solon is now. Yes, I think he did at that
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  point. Why not?
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  Yeah, yeah, sure. Why not?
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  But it's, it would be disappointing if it was.
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  But the interesting thing about his character is we are we are
• 9:03
  invited to worry about him as well.
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  This is lovely. The vulnerable villain.
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  In 13 they do a lot of this where the cameras upstairs and
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  they sort of come. Yeah, an an oblique relationship
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  to the action. It's very it's it's, it is very
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  nice to look. At keep calm, Sarah, keep
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  whenever you do get. Oh, you are calm.
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  OK, good. They're just magic, aren't they?
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  The two of them? Yeah.
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  Oh, OK, So this is, I mean, this is a bit like the scene with
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  Kate O'Mara now. She was screaming her head off
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  as the monster. Yes, yeah.
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  And and condo is still about and Morbius is just on the rampage
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  now. This is this is a long way to
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  fall from being the on, you know, leading the High Council
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  of the Time Lords to being a brain in a in a head case on.
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  AI don't think there's any reason why she needs to fall
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  down those stairs now. There is just too much now.
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  Quite probably, but and and now we get something that we
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  certainly couldn't be allowed to do these days, which is 2
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  characters having a knife fight on the ground.
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  Tunic is soaked with blood. He's whole knife to his neck.
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  Like this is really graphic. I mean, it's absurd, but it's
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  graphic. But but for some reason though,
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  I find it easier to I find this violence easy to forgive the
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  violence from a decade later and I have awful I I just think it's
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  because it's just better television.
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  Yeah. That's the difference, the
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  sensitive drama, you know the. Sequence in attack of the
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  Sidemen where his hands get crushed and that it's a sort of
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  very white room where the blood is so stark.
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  That was all in shadows and things in a.
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  In a poor, poorly written bit, the television and this, but
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  this is excellent television. And that's, that's ultimately,
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  sadly, the difference, I think. Yeah, there are as as an adult,
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  I love all this stuff. But there are a few moments in
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  Hinge Cliff where I'm like, yeah, maybe for a family
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  audience that was a bit much, and that might be one of those
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  moments. Yeah, but when?
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  But when you as a creator want to pick it up.
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  Yeah, but you want to be, you want to be roofing on
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  Frankenstein and whatever else. This is doing a great job of
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  that. If you're doing, if you're
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  making this for you, not for an audience, then I think this is
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  valid. Hunting after the creature in
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  one of those movies I seem to. Recall they do, yeah, yeah.
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  But yeah, having having the the pitchfork, pitchfork wielding
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  mob going after your monster is, yeah, that's all.
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  That's all of them. Oh, wasn't there a bit where the
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  the scientist where Frankenstein was going off?
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  Oh, they do. They do that in The Curse of
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  Frankenstein as well. Peter Cushing and his mate Paul
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  going after Christopher Lee is the monster with a rifle.
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  So, yeah, in the hammers again, a couple of guys and a rifle
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  going out in search of the monster.
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  Because again, this is, you know, Solon and the Doctor are
• 12:02
  about to join forces again. They keep doing this.
• 12:06
  You know, I love the fact that the Doctor was hiding behind the
• 12:09
  bus because the motif of heads, even the there's a sphinx on the
• 12:13
  stair on the foot of the stairs there as well.
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  You know, heads and statues of heads, decapitated heads, The
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  the threat of decapitation. This is a it's a running motif
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  throughout this and it's phenomenal.
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  I also love the fact that the doctor pulls a pair of pliers
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  out of his pocket later and he goes like, you either take apart
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  Morbius or I do things my way. He's, he's got some edge to him,
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  Tom at this point, isn't he? Oh, yeah, yeah.
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  And we and we forgive it because I think it all occurs amid
• 12:46
  narrative and dramatic excellence.
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  So if something's good, it doesn't matter.
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  We. Forgive is this scene so he
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  finds. Weird this bit.
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  Well, he tried the member of the sister to come and I figured, is
• 12:56
  he doing the bit with the little girl, you know, by the water?
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  Not quite, that's see. But if we didn't have the
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  sisterhood, we would possibly be doing the What happens when
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  Morbius actually goes on the prowl?
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  We've been that's. Not in the book the The Little
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  Girl. Well, no, the the creature in
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  the book does hide in a in a cottage and he watches a family.
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  He learns to speak German. It must be or French, Swiss,
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  whatever from some peasants. So the the the creature in the
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  book is very, very different from in the the James Whale
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  movies. And this the creature is he's
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  oddly, he's closer to Roy Batty and Blade Runner.
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  He's an intelligent being who is who is just neglected by his
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  creator and has to fend for himself and his angry and
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  vengeful. Honestly, Rob, in those two
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  first movies, Frankenstein and Bride and Frankenstein, Karloff,
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  man, he was just so effortless. Yeah.
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  Empathize with the creature. Yeah.
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  With no dialogue at all, it's just yeah, well, we had some
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  dialogue in the second one, but. It's a it's a great, it's one of
• 14:07
  the great near silent performances in cinema.
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  But yeah, but here we have. OK.
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  I do love the fact that the Doctor and Solon work together
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  so much. Well, I like the fact that the
• 14:16
  doctor pays him in kind when he realises there's no other way
• 14:19
  and he's cyanide off down the air ducts to kill him.
• 14:24
  Yeah, we'll just, we'll talk about that surely.
• 14:27
  Yeah, I like when Colin goes around murdering people as well.
• 14:30
  So, you know, not Colin himself. The 6th Doctor, of course.
• 14:36
  Listen, watch how the Doctor froze the creature over us.
• 14:39
  Yeah. Oh boy.
• 14:43
  I mean, it's a bit of an yeah, ignominious end, isn't it?
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  He was once a great warlord. You know the ruler.
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  Yeah, leader of the High Council.
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  And now look at him. Now the doctor's.
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  Grooping his arse while he's over his shoulder.
• 14:59
  I mean, what a way to go, I think.
• 15:02
  I think I would rather have just been remembered in my heyday,
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  you know, than end up. Like, yeah, no, exactly.
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  And that's the thing in this era.
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  SU Tech, Morbius, Magnus Grill, they're all people who've had,
• 15:13
  they're villains who've seen better days and want to come
• 15:15
  back. In The Butcher of Brisbane,
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  don't you? Yeah, well, it's well precisely,
• 15:20
  you know. OK so This is why we get our
• 15:24
  flame wielding mob now, because Morbius has randomly murdered
• 15:28
  one of the sisterhoods and they're pissed.
• 15:30
  Yeah, yeah, a member of the sisterhood who was just sort of
• 15:34
  sitting around and was sort of quite willingly murdered, I
• 15:37
  thought. I can see a boom mic on her head
• 15:41
  right now. The shadow of a boom mic.
• 15:43
  Oh dear. Yeah, it happens every now and
• 15:45
  again. So Sullen has succeeded at his
• 15:49
  vile experiments. She is great.
• 15:53
  The hand movement she does, yeah.
• 15:55
  You do the eyes as well, please, if you're going to go the whole
• 15:57
  hog. Oh.
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  There we go A. Little bit sexy as well.
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  You've spent your whole life resurrecting evil Rob.
• 16:07
  Disconnect the. Brain Well, whenever possible
• 16:10
  Joe whenever possible 5 minutes Solon I I just really want to I
• 16:18
  prefer him being called Solon, but that's just because again,
• 16:21
  it's one of those reading the how you pronounce it when you
• 16:24
  first read it things. That line I'll be back to count
• 16:27
  the pieces. Yeah, yeah.
• 16:31
  Then he goes to Sarah. Oi, oi, I've done it.
• 16:36
  Oh. And Sarah hasn't had the most
• 16:38
  terrible Here's the thing. They are kind of drawing
• 16:40
  attention to the fact that what Sarah has been through is a
• 16:43
  nightmare. I was blinded, attacked by this
• 16:45
  claw thing that looks like it was made out of butchers
• 16:48
  leftovers and then knocked down a flight of stairs.
• 16:49
  It was a terrible dream. Yeah, Mr. All Sorts.
• 16:54
  That's a good name. Happiness Patrol, isn't it?
• 16:57
  Well, exactly. Yeah, they got sued for that
• 16:59
  and. Force majeure like.
• 17:07
  Excuse me? We're lucky you botched the
• 17:09
  operation. Yes, that is often the case in
• 17:11
  these Frankenstein. We've got the title.
• 17:13
  Drop the brain of Morbius there. I think we get it a second time
• 17:16
  at some point. Are you thinking, Sarah?
• 17:20
  You know a learned journalist would have read Shelley,
• 17:23
  wouldn't you? Yeah, or at least she should
• 17:27
  have seen the hammers, you know, because she is from 1980.
• 17:30
  So, you know, maybe. Not directly reference it, but
• 17:32
  just go oh just start the book. Yeah, yeah.
• 17:35
  That that is a problem when you do use things as your source, is
• 17:39
  that what would the characters be aware of it?
• 17:41
  And if so, you have to, you have to get their head of the if the
• 17:45
  audience wonders if the characters ought to have known
• 17:48
  about it, then this is wearing gloves now when he's doing the
• 17:52
  brain surgery. But it's still very kind of, you
• 17:54
  know. I'm glad you're happy now.
• 17:56
  Oh. Yeah, it's like, it is like
• 18:00
  really is that he's his, his approach to cleanliness is like
• 18:04
  my approach to cleanliness while doing like DIY rather than
• 18:08
  actual brain surgery. Yeah, you know.
• 18:13
  You've got to be. You sent that mirror he had on
• 18:14
  his head. You have to be.
• 18:15
  I did. With those mirrors, because you
• 18:17
  can reflect the camera. That's it.
• 18:22
  Oh, so it's finally time for the sisterhood.
• 18:24
  Also now they leave the caves here, don't they?
• 18:27
  Now and go. Yeah.
• 18:29
  And I think from this point on, they are proactive because in
• 18:33
  the new series, they're not just hiding away in The Cave, are
• 18:37
  they? They're they're a power again.
• 18:39
  Yeah, yeah. But they're, they're also, they
• 18:40
  have that interesting tension with the Time Lords throughout,
• 18:44
  which is fine. I just do think, and I'm, you
• 18:47
  know, I'm not going to bang this drum too much, but you've got
• 18:50
  all the kind of the Frankenstein and Donovan's, the Donovan's
• 18:54
  brain thing. We're passed that.
• 18:55
  We're into pure Frankenstein territory.
• 18:57
  And suddenly all the sisterhood stuff just feels separate.
• 19:01
  Like another thing. It's, it's I, I, I put it this
• 19:05
  way in terms of it being a Frankenstein's monster.
• 19:08
  I kind of think I, I'd want the, all the different body parts to
• 19:13
  have been pulled together a bit more to me to having all this,
• 19:16
  this kind of she H Ron Haggard thing coming in is a bit like
• 19:20
  having one human arm, one giant crab claw.
• 19:23
  For me. It doesn't quite.
• 19:24
  It's a bit too much of a mishmash.
• 19:27
  Celebrating that in the last episode.
• 19:30
  I was celebrating it as something that looked awful and
• 19:32
  ungainly, and that's kind of but this time around, that's my
• 19:36
  criticism. You know, reference different
• 19:39
  weird science sources. So reference drawing
• 19:42
  Frankenstein, Jacqueline Hyde Donovan's brain things in that
• 19:46
  sub genre. But H Raider Haggard's she feels
• 19:50
  like it's It's too different a species to become part of this.
• 19:56
  The trouble is, and I know we're our balls deep in Frankenstein
• 19:59
  now in this episode. Yeah, yeah.
• 20:01
  Now that stuff's all been established, you can't just
• 20:03
  forget about them at the end of the story, you know?
• 20:06
  Well, exactly. I just wouldn't establish them
• 20:07
  in that way in the 1st place. And here we here we have the
• 20:11
  doctor's plan. That's right, it's murder so
• 20:14
  long in. This thing, I have no problem
• 20:18
  with this, but what I do have a problem with is getting told,
• 20:22
  you know, this is me. This is me as a writer who has
• 20:25
  to answer the producers on occasion, but you know, all the
• 20:28
  doctors doesn't do stuff like that.
• 20:29
  It's like all the time, you know?
• 20:34
  No one suggests you have they He's murdering all the way
• 20:37
  through the class. Yeah, yeah, The Doctor, he is
• 20:41
  just straightforward. Well, you know the universe is
• 20:45
  at threat here and at the end of the day Solon is just one mad
• 20:50
  bastard, so fuck him you know? You see him going around with
• 20:54
  those bloody things in the seas of death, knocking out ice
• 20:57
  warriors, sending fleets into the sun, destroying whole
• 21:00
  planets and remembrance of the Daleks.
• 21:03
  They're thinner to doctors. I mean, I could go on.
• 21:06
  Yeah, exactly. But the Doctor is a character
• 21:08
  who does kill people. Yes.
• 21:11
  I mean, we prefer it when he relies on his wits, but I think
• 21:14
  this is quite a witty solution. Yeah.
• 21:17
  However, I I I find it unsatisfied partly because I
• 21:21
  don't like seeing the doctor murder people and this is a
• 21:24
  straight up murder, but also I find it an unsatisfying and
• 21:29
  disappointingly, undramatically ironic death for Solon.
• 21:36
  I know what you're saying and I think why are we like 9 minutes
• 21:39
  from the end? It is poorer for losing him
• 21:42
  those last minutes because the creature who is visually very
• 21:46
  interesting, but it's not very interesting like.
• 21:50
  So he is someone as a character obsessed with heads transplants
• 21:56
  there there is inherent fear of decapitation about the
• 21:59
  character. The the the ultimate but
• 22:02
  overdone irony is, you know, the the the maker is killed by his
• 22:06
  own creation kind of thing, which is really that's kind of
• 22:09
  what it in some variation, that's what it needs to be.
• 22:13
  I think a better, wittier version of that, but randomly
• 22:17
  poised, randomly gassed by the doctor is not it.
• 22:22
  And I'll just say right, the shots of the.
• 22:26
  Look at this. It's yeah.
• 22:27
  The villagers. No, not this.
• 22:28
  The villagers in that first Frankenstein movie Going Streets
• 22:33
  were so visually impressive. It was an enormous crowd of
• 22:36
  people. Application.
• 22:38
  It looks so great. I mean, that's not bad, but it
• 22:41
  doesn't match up in any way, shape or form.
• 22:43
  I think there was a bit more money in that movie though now,
• 22:47
  and the difference is is Maddock has his face so he can give a
• 22:50
  performance which is just automatically more engaging to
• 22:53
  watch. What the hell can Michael Spice
• 22:55
  do with that? It is a a voice on a bowl with a
• 22:59
  brain in it. Yeah, I suppose The thing is
• 23:02
  that it's like losing Mohammed Bay in episode 1.
• 23:07
  You know, ultimately so long is because of the because we are
• 23:12
  bringing back a previously unknown, massively powerful
• 23:16
  villain. So and has to be got out of the
• 23:18
  way. Why was there a load of tribbles
• 23:21
  in that chart? Did you see then?
• 23:23
  There's a lot of big furry balls.
• 23:24
  Well clearly a staff Lee ship crashed on car at some.
• 23:29
  Point. Don't tell me there's a bit of a
• 23:30
  tribble in him somewhere. Yeah.
• 23:33
  Good grief, I could use that line.
• 23:35
  You know, when it's been learned that I, Joe Ford, have returned
• 23:40
  from the grave, my podcast listeners will rise in their
• 23:44
  millions. What do you think?
• 23:47
  It works for me OK. What a ham now.
• 23:53
  So what's this trying to do in Frankenstein terms and this sort
• 23:56
  of mental? Battle.
• 23:57
  Oh, we're beyond that. We're I think we're now into
• 24:00
  pure Doctor Who. We have to honor the back story.
• 24:03
  We we have to kind of go into the Doctor versus the ancient
• 24:07
  returning evil type. But we go back to Frankenstein
• 24:10
  with the talked welding mob. You know, scaring.
• 24:13
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. What we, we have set up the fact
• 24:15
  that we, we we've got the Time Lords on the one hand and the
• 24:19
  sister of Khan on the other. And now, OK, there's Mobius's
• 24:23
  face. There's the 4th Doctor.
• 24:26
  Yeah. It's 1975.
• 24:30
  I remember him. That's the Third Doctor, right?
• 24:32
  OK, good. Yeah, second doctor in a second.
• 24:37
  Back to 4th, Doctor, because it's an arm wrestle, you see.
• 24:39
  So back to 4th. Yeah, Back to 3rd.
• 24:42
  How far, Doctor? I mean, it's quite.
• 24:45
  How long have you lived? He didn't do this at all, being
• 24:47
  very often at this point. No, no, no, no.
• 24:49
  No. Exactly. 7th of the first doctor
• 24:52
  I remember. I remember him.
• 24:53
  I used to watch this back in the 60s.
• 24:55
  Hang. On I just had a flash of this.
• 24:57
  That's Joe Martin, I swear. Oh, no, it's not.
• 25:00
  That's Robert Holmes. Yeah, who are these timeless?
• 25:03
  That's George Galaccio. I used to work with George
• 25:05
  Galaccio. One of my first jobs was for a.
• 25:07
  Look at Philip Hinchcliffe looking in pair, you see?
• 25:11
  Yeah. Oh, and then suddenly with the
• 25:13
  brain case goes now, were all those people the doctor, or were
• 25:17
  all those people Morbius? I kind of think it.
• 25:20
  Doesn't matter, answered now. We know now, but I like to think
• 25:24
  in 1975, before it, before, before the current show drowned
• 25:30
  in a pool of its own law. You know, or.
• 25:35
  Did I say that? Oh God.
• 25:38
  Did I say that out loud? Sorry I.
• 25:41
  Usually can't, but it can't be. Basically, I've said, you know,
• 25:43
  I've said it before, but you know, Doctor athletes purest is
• 25:46
  a fascinating, interesting, unpredictable character called
• 25:50
  the Doctor takes his companions or her companions around the
• 25:52
  universe having adventures. You can.
• 25:55
  You can get to bogged down in this stuff.
• 25:59
  Although I mean in a way, I do find it delightful that this
• 26:03
  question was answered 45 years later.
• 26:07
  You know the. Show's still going and someone's
• 26:10
  still thinking about. This.
• 26:11
  But the more interesting thing is, you know, if it matters at
• 26:13
  all, is what did the show think at the time?
• 26:17
  Look at this shot here. OK, first I have a minor
• 26:21
  obsession with just the when it when it ever comes the shot of
• 26:26
  the villain, whoever the villain is falling to their death.
• 26:30
  Why? Is that I don't know, I just
• 26:32
  have a real kind of little. Do you like this CSO shot of?
• 26:35
  More. Yeah, I do.
• 26:36
  Yeah, There are good ones, bad ones.
• 26:39
  Look at this. I mean that Stewart Fell does
• 26:43
  quite a tumble. The best one in all history I
• 26:46
  think is Timothy Dalton as Neville Sinclair in The
• 26:48
  Rocketeer. His You.
• 26:51
  Think. That that's a plunge to camera,
• 26:54
  but it's not. It's not the best shot, but the
• 26:57
  but in terms of movie villain deaths, it's the wittiest and
• 27:01
  best structured. I think you're forgetting that
• 27:04
  cardboard cut out void from episode 1 of the Keys of
• 27:07
  Mariners that falls down a hole and plops to his death in the
• 27:10
  water. You know.
• 27:12
  Yeah, I think you're, I was forgetting that, yes.
• 27:17
  Oh, actually this is quite near right.
• 27:20
  So we set up the Alexia, the doctors in a biological crisis,
• 27:26
  so they can cure him. Yes, yeah, yeah.
• 27:30
  Again, we're just, we're just, we're just into another genre
• 27:32
  now, which is fine. Have you?
• 27:35
  Ever tried stewed apricots, Rob? Yeah, reckon so.
• 27:41
  Some point tasty. Yeah.
• 27:45
  I'm trying to think. A little drop of that Alex here
• 27:47
  of life, you know, Well, I don't want to live forever, but just a
• 27:51
  little while longer. Yeah, yeah.
• 27:54
  Or just, you know, just get get rid of the the white that's
• 27:58
  appearing in my. Don't change this guy.
• 28:00
  I'm. Just getting a bit.
• 28:01
  Bless you. I'm going to he's.
• 28:03
  Very nice to me this thing how? About you have a white pen and
• 28:05
  just make it automatic, you know, Oh salt and Peppers.
• 28:08
  Very sexy, but he only has the tiniest little droplet.
• 28:13
  Yes. It's not the elixir, is it?
• 28:16
  And neither Doctor. It's some poison that forces him
• 28:19
  to regenerate Berserk. And so it's just Doctor.
• 28:24
  Yeah, he chooses to. He chooses to become the Ward
• 28:27
  Doctor, doesn't he? Yeah, but he yeah, you know, he
• 28:29
  gets he gets the different options of what?
• 28:31
  What they'll make him like. Oh, here we have.
• 28:34
  OK, Marin is now. She's gone into the flame.
• 28:37
  She dies in the flame like she. Are you sure she must be obeyed?
• 28:41
  Ursula Andrus in the Hammer film.
• 28:43
  She but again, what it has to do with Frankenstein a mad science,
• 28:49
  I don't know. I, I, I just kind of think I'd
• 28:53
  have been happy with Doctor Who doing Frankenstein a bit more
• 28:56
  purely and Doctor Who doing she and giving it a solid 4 episodes
• 29:01
  to kind of be its own thing. But like I said, I'm not right
• 29:06
  and I'm just a twat on the Internet so.
• 29:08
  I see you Iris. Wild Thyme to the left of Ohika
• 29:11
  camping it out there. Obviously she doesn't fancy Tom
• 29:17
  Baker. She usually has a bit of a thing
• 29:18
  for whichever of the incumbent Dr. is.
• 29:21
  And we have a right. Instead of a dematerialization,
• 29:24
  we get a different and. We get a mighty atom and a
• 29:28
  Thunder flash. Yes, we do.
• 29:30
  Is that a quote from something? Is it a Time Lord spell?
• 29:33
  Oh no, they're just they're names of old fireworks.
• 29:36
  You know he he has nice old style fireworks and kaboom and
• 29:43
  and the boiled sweets to match. Next time you have it, OfferUp,
• 29:46
  right? Yeah, say that line, light the
• 29:48
  blue touch paper and stand clear.
• 29:50
  It works every time. Oh shit.
• 29:55
  Well, look, aside from maybe a clash of influences there.
• 30:00
  That's the I would say, I would say there's a clash.
• 30:02
  It's it's one human arm, 1 crab claw rather than two human arms
• 30:08
  from different humans is fine, but one human arm 1 crab core is
• 30:12
  too much of a difference I think and.
• 30:13
  I still love though, just shoving it down my cob even
• 30:16
  though it would kill me because as I said, I can't have
• 30:19
  crustaceans. But well, look.
• 30:21
  Can we please do our three fabulous things to recommend The
• 30:25
  Bride of? More.
• 30:26
  Oh yes. Absolutely go.
• 30:27
  I mean, there's a million, but you go first.
• 30:30
  Go on. Philip Maddock.
• 30:33
  Well. Yes, and his wonderful, nuanced,
• 30:38
  mad, subtle, over the top all at the same time operatic
• 30:43
  performance as Doctor Mahendri Solon.
• 30:48
  We know you was a little bit pissed off, Elizabeth Slayden,
• 30:52
  but unfortunately this, on this one occasion, it was worth it
• 30:57
  because it is a terrific performance.
• 31:00
  Can I put in a word for Dudley Simpson then?
• 31:02
  Because I think. Yes.
• 31:04
  Really didn't because we couldn't hear it.
• 31:06
  I always forget to praise Dudley because we listened with the
• 31:09
  sound off. Yeah, and I really think 13,
• 31:13
  maybe 13 and 14 are his two strongest years.
• 31:16
  He's so in tune with the sort of Hammer influences.
• 31:20
  I think he could score a Hammer movie effortless if he had a
• 31:23
  slightly bigger band to play with.
• 31:25
  But here he is so on point. He's he's got like deep strings
• 31:32
  that he's playing at times. But I think perfectly judged is
• 31:39
  the slightly comic overtones to make the more horrific moments a
• 31:44
  bit gentle for a family audience.
• 31:47
  Yeah, I just think I think he's absolutely on it in this.
• 31:50
  And what a shame we couldn't hear it, especially the condo
• 31:55
  gets shot and the brain slaps on the floor.
• 32:00
  Thank you. I would then like to recommend
• 32:03
  the design of the Morbius monster, an image which repelled
• 32:12
  and fascinated me in in I think if it was on the novelization
• 32:19
  cover or if not, then it was definitely on like them.
• 32:23
  It was in the monster book. But yeah, just.
• 32:26
  It's the mind bending. He's from the side, but.
• 32:29
  That's it. That's it.
• 32:30
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 32:31
  But no, just the Morbidus creature itself is, is something
• 32:37
  that was, yeah, the stuff of my nightmares In in in a, in a good
• 32:41
  way. I know you've had some issues
• 32:47
  with the sisterhood being in this, but I think Cynthia
• 32:50
  Grenville is magnificent. She is, like, glorious in the
• 32:56
  behind the scenes documentary where she's really catty.
• 32:59
  She goes, oh, sitting in the BBC canteen and Christopher Barry
• 33:02
  came up to me and he goes, oh, I've got a perfect role for you.
• 33:05
  Yeah, Yeah. And she goes, oh, great.
• 33:07
  You know, I love doing TV. Tell me you're going to be 1000
• 33:11
  years old, this decrepit old hag, dare you say that?
• 33:17
  And then she read the script and she went, I'm there, I want to
• 33:20
  do it. And she, like Maddock, she
• 33:22
  commits as much as Maddock does. And I think she's as compelling
• 33:26
  in that role. So.
• 33:29
  Honestly, I have no problem with the sisterhood of Khan being in
• 33:32
  it. I, I, I or if I do, it's more of
• 33:34
  in a kind of a, a sort of a, you know, with my current my, my, my
• 33:41
  writing hack tradesman, tradesman's hat on just kind of
• 33:44
  awe. I wouldn't have done it like
• 33:46
  that, but. Better watch out, you know,
• 33:48
  because they may send nightmarish visions of an
• 33:51
  endless hamster and blonde penknife commentary in your
• 33:54
  head. You know, to drive you mad.
• 33:57
  Well, that's weird. That's what I'm here for, isn't
• 34:00
  it? To help you make.
• 34:02
  What am I talking about? They all feel like that.
• 34:05
  Back to you then. Back to me.
• 34:08
  Oh, oh, yeah. OK, so I would like actually I
• 34:14
  would like to go for the the very opening and the death of
• 34:17
  Chris because just because that's something that possibly
• 34:21
  admittedly passed more more due to the target.
• 34:23
  But just from that, just that opening scene is something that
• 34:28
  is, yeah, nevertheless very, very haunting and memorable for
• 34:32
  me. Because if we didn't mention
• 34:35
  this, it would be obscene. All three cliffhangers, whether
• 34:40
  it's butchers, leftovers sitting up, whether it's bubbling brains
• 34:45
  in jars, or whether it's that fucking enormous crab claw going
• 34:50
  for a boat. Wonderful moments to leave
• 34:55
  episodes on. Yeah, unforgettable.
• 35:00
  Well, I think we might have done that a bit of justice there,
• 35:02
  Rob, you know. Well, it's, it's, it's a Doctor
• 35:05
  Who story that you know, is, is absolutely wonderful.
• 35:09
  It's it is one of the greats, hugely influential on the
• 35:12
  series, so much so they felt the need to elaborate on it 45 years
• 35:16
  later. In many ways, right, The
• 35:19
  sisterhood that I was telling you about.
• 35:23
  It's all, yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's a
• 35:26
  great slice of Doctor Who and we salute it.
• 35:29
  Although if you were, if you did find yourself in that, in that
• 35:33
  body, you'd have to be careful from, you know, in terms of
• 35:36
  something, in terms of saluting, I won't in terms of doing
• 35:38
  anything, remembering which arm is your human arm, which arm is
• 35:40
  suddenly the crab crab plot could lead to all kinds of all
• 35:44
  kinds of problems. I.
• 35:46
  Am not rising to that. Well, yeah.
• 35:49
  Well, what's it called when they homaged is being homaged?
• 35:54
  Because that's what's happened here, right?
• 35:56
  Is they're homaging, but then this is eventually homaged.
• 36:05
  I've lost you. Oh, you're frozen there for a
• 36:10
  second. Oh, you cut it?
• 36:12
  Yeah, sorry. Wow, we actually have a freeze
• 36:14
  there. You might want to cut that bit
• 36:15
  out just for Lester. Yeah, what is it called when the
• 36:19
  when the homaging is being homaged?
• 36:23
  I don't know but but but when we return, maybe, maybe we can
• 36:29
  think of a term, you know? It's not an internal enough
• 36:31
  question for you to. Why not a homaging circle?
• 36:35
  A group reference? I don't know well.
• 36:38
  I do wonder. What?
• 36:40
  If the original intention is sort of watered down, the more
• 36:44
  it's done. Yes, Yeah.
• 36:46
  Well, you know, I think it is important, I think, right, You
• 36:49
  know, if you are, that's the thing.
• 36:51
  There is a difference between it being influenced by stuff and
• 36:54
  being derivative of stuff. And what you don't want to do is
• 36:57
  just be derivative of Frankenstein or whatever else.
• 37:00
  You know, there is a certain, you know, there comes a point
• 37:03
  when whatever the story you're working on, where it becomes its
• 37:05
  own thing. And you shouldn't be a slave to
• 37:08
  your influences, but you know, just being aware of where things
• 37:11
  have come from and what they mean and their significance is
• 37:14
  all part of the road to coming up with something unique and
• 37:17
  original, which is ultimately what the brain of Morbius is.
• 37:22
  One last question for you. Yeah.
• 37:25
  Well, I don't want us to be predictable on hamster, a blunt
• 37:28
  pen knife, you know, and we've done a couple of these now
• 37:31
  watching horror movies and then watching, you know, horror
• 37:34
  themed Doctor Who's afterwards. Where we going next?
• 37:39
  Oh, actually, before I tell you where we're going next, could I
• 37:42
  make a recommendation? Please do well.
• 37:45
  Because you've asked me like from podcast recommendations
• 37:47
  before, but for this one, I would like to recommend the
• 37:52
  audio series The Scarifiers. Listen to all of it because it's
• 37:58
  wonderful. It stars Terry Malloy and
• 38:04
  Nicholas Courtney. Oh my God, his name.
• 38:06
  He then went with my head. But but anyway, after Nicholas
• 38:10
  Courtney's passing, Terry Malloy remained and Nicholas Courtney,
• 38:16
  his character was left too. But a new character came along,
• 38:22
  played by the late great David Warner, and there was A and his
• 38:26
  introductory stories called The Horror of Loch Ness.
• 38:29
  And it stars guest stars Philip Maddock as as a wonderfully
• 38:38
  fruity villain who has a brain in a jar who he is desperately
• 38:46
  attempting to resurrect. And yeah, so the Scarifiers, The
• 38:50
  Horror of Loch Ness is a horror of the audio series, I think.
• 38:55
  I think you can actually get them via Big Finish, but you can
• 38:58
  get them from via Bafflegap Productions.
• 39:03
  But yeah, the scare of fires, the horror of Loch Ness with
• 39:06
  Philip Maddock, I think, I believe actually it was the last
• 39:11
  performance of that that, that that Philip gave before he
• 39:15
  before he died. So yeah.
• 39:18
  So it's again talking about Family Tree from Frankenstein to
• 39:25
  Brain of Morbius, then to the horror of Loch Ness.
• 39:29
  But yeah. So yeah, that's definitely one
• 39:31
  to seek out for you audio drama listeners out there.
• 39:36
  I'm also going to make a quick recommendation that you don't
• 39:39
  read Warmonger, the prequels, but the recommendation I would
• 39:44
  like to make is Joe Lister's Master, which is a Big Finish
• 39:48
  audio in the 1st 50, and Philip Maddock is in that, and he's
• 39:54
  fucking terrifying in it. Absolutely terrifying.
• 39:58
  It is a chamber piece of sort of four characters, an amnesiac
• 40:03
  Master and the 7th Doctor, and it is one of the most ghoulish
• 40:09
  and horrifying audio Big Finish I've ever put out.
• 40:12
  A Maddock is a big part of that. So go and seek out all of this
• 40:16
  Maddock goodness, because Gully was a hell of an actor.
• 40:19
  He was. He was.
• 40:21
  Anyway, yeah. So recommendations about what to
• 40:25
  seek out and what to avoid out of the way, we can talk about
• 40:28
  where we're going next. So recently we've been to the
• 40:30
  we've been to the Himalayas, been to Egypt and the Home
• 40:36
  Counties, we've been to Khan. I'd like somewhere, to be
• 40:42
  honest, a bit more normal, somewhere with a nice pub, draft
• 40:45
  beer, maybe the quintal church and maybe some barrows a little
• 40:52
  walk away from up into the hills.
• 40:55
  So do you? Do you fancy a trip to Devil's
• 40:57
  End? I absolutely do may I recommend
• 41:02
  that we only drink in the pub though, and we don't stay there
• 41:05
  because I recently saw that pub from all born on an episode of
• 41:09
  the hotel inspector all right and it.
• 41:11
  Was. Truly horrific what was going on
• 41:14
  in Oak Room. And I stayed in one of them when
• 41:17
  I went there with Luke and Dylan.
• 41:20
  Yes, please. And what we're going to watch
• 41:22
  alongside it. Come on, This is our thing now.
• 41:26
  Well. Oh my God.
• 41:27
  Well, you, you mentioned the Devil rides out and I'll, I'll
• 41:30
  never, I'll never disagree with watching that.
• 41:33
  You also mentioned watching Knight of the Demon, and I'll
• 41:36
  never disagree with watching that.
• 41:39
  It's such a great movie, isn't it?
• 41:40
  Yeah, I also suggested possibly we should watch either vote the
• 41:44
  TV or the Hammer film of Quite a Mass in the pit.
• 41:47
  Oh please quite watch the TV version.
• 41:49
  Yeah, it's the best. It's my.
• 41:51
  Yeah, it's the best yet. I mean, I wouldn't be OK.
• 41:53
  Excuse to watch that but. Andre Morrell and yes, is it
• 41:58
  cease Linda. Anyway, Felix likes from golfing
• 42:02
  anyway, So what we can we'll watch quite a mass in the pit TV
• 42:05
  version. And if you if you feel like it,
• 42:09
  we can also throw in the Village of the Damned with George
• 42:13
  Sanders. Oh, OK.
• 42:15
  Well, you know, it's it's, you know, it's a story with a big
• 42:18
  Dome shield around a village. So I think.
• 42:21
  We hang on. Is that the one where those
• 42:22
  creepy kids with the glowing eyes?
• 42:25
  It is you. Know how much I hate children?
• 42:28
  Let's do it. Yeah, OK, fair enough.
• 42:30
  OK, well, there we go. You know that'll do for
• 42:32
  starters. But if we but to be honest,
• 42:36
  yeah, when we get to it, more things may reveal themselves,
• 42:40
  yes. The kids get murdered horribly
• 42:43
  in the movie. Well, to quote with the song
• 42:46
  spoilers, yeah. So we, we've got some, we've got
• 42:51
  some homework to do. And being a nerd, I love my
• 42:55
  homework. But she's also got.
• 42:57
  I don't give a shit about Doctor Who anymore.
• 42:59
  I only want to watch these other things that you're telling me
• 43:01
  about. But in terms of in terms, again,
• 43:03
  in terms of atmosphere, a lovely little village in Wiltshire.
• 43:07
  What could possibly go wrong? Let's find out.