Latest / WHAT I'VE LEARNT / What I've Learnt - Julia Tink

Transcript

What I've Learnt - Julia Tink · WHAT I'VE LEARNT

• 0:03
  SPEAKER_01: Julia Tank is co-founder of St.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_01: Remeo, the socially conscious global coffee brand.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: A Melbourne mother and a businesswoman, she's learnt a lifetime of business lessons over the past six years since starting her company, which she says was born in Rwanda and raised in Melbourne.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: St.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: Remeo is enjoying great success in Australia and it's doctored over 2,000 national retailers, including Coles, Officeworks, The Good Guys, and more.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: The range includes ethically sourced beans, ground coffee, and a large variety of coffee pots.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: St.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: Remeo is one of the only brands in Australia that offers consumers a compatible coffee solution to suit a large variety of coffee systems.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: And this year, St.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: Remeo also released a new range of premium organic coffee pots.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: St.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: Remeo made its first international sale in 2020 and is now sold in Saudi Arabia, Hong Kong, Estonia, Russia, and has just launched into what they are expecting to become their biggest market, the United States.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: Julia is such a positive, inspiring, and empowering entrepreneur, and it's doing amazing things for women in Rwanda.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: She also has a three-month-old daughter and three-year-old son, and is happy to discuss her struggles getting pregnant and IVF experiences.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: All we're trying to launch and run a startup business.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: So, Julia, as a coffee lover myself, I love what you're doing, and I'm very inspired by your story, and I can't wait to hear all of the details.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the What I've Learned podcast.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, thank you so much for having me.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_02: Honestly, it's a it's a real honour.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_02: So thank you for spending the time.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: Pleasure.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: So let's start by talking about what got you entranced by coffee and what how did you embark on this journey?
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's really quite an extraordinary one.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's not your average coffee story.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_04: No, it look, it definitely isn't your average coffee story, not at all, and by no stretch of the measure.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_04: My husband formerly ran Labatza Australia.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_04: So he was there for just over 10 years and he started at that company at a really young age at 25.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_04: And Trent is amazing.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_04: He's very charismatic, he is super talented, and I have always just believed in his ability wholeheartedly.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_04: So when I was cutting my teeth on a small business is really a big part of my story.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_04: So I previously, when I was like 19 to 24, ran a promotional modeling agency and studied uni full-time doing that.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_04: So I really cut my teeth on small business and I loved the challenge.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_04: When I then started, I formerly used to be at Channel 9 and then went out and started my own PR business at 27 before I got married.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_04: I took the leap of faith and started my own business.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_04: And even though I was doing PR, I knew that wasn't going to be the end goal for me.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_04: And my dream was always to do something with Trent and work in coffee because he was so good at it and he was such a talent.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_04: And I just didn't want to see him work with someone forever.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_04: He was, he has the ability and the capabilities and the knowledge to do something really great.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_04: So it took a long time for me to have those conversations and kind of twist his arm.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_04: But really what happened was, you know, kind of again, I think the universe is it all kind of came to a point.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_04: Lavatta was brought back, uh uh Lavato Global brought back all the distribution rights and made it like one big company.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_04: And therefore, that chapter for him was was was closing.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_04: So instead of kind of going and working for someone else, that was the opportunity that we said like this is this is it, take the leap of faith, let's go.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and you know, like I wholeheartedly back you in.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_04: You know, I'm in our relationship.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_04: Trent is much more conservative.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_04: I am very much the risk taker, and I was like, you know, this is we can do this.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_04: So we we had chipped away at different things prior, but that was for him the real turning point, the focus.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_04: And that's what I needed for him from him in order to kind of help build this brand.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: And coffee is obviously something that is, you know, it's very big in Australia.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_01: And as you know, often you go overseas and you can never find a good coffee because we're so good at doing it and we're so good at creating, you know, like I there are so many people that, you know, get stuck overseas in America going, I can't find a good coffee.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_01: It is changing.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: And and I think the interesting part of your story also is that you two united to do it together.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_01: And that's not always easy.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: Tell me what it's like being a husband and wife team working together, how you made it work, and maybe some of the effects that it had on the relationship, but also what are the logistics of what this meant to start this brand?
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_04: So absolutely, you know, when I say to people like running your own business, period, is really challenging.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_04: Working with a partner is just like another layer on top of that.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_04: And you've really got to be committed to each other and your relationship in order to do that.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_04: It's hectic what gets thrown at you, and it can really put a lot of pressure on both of you uh individually as well.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_04: So you've really got to show, you know, and not show, but have a united front.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_04: So we are definitely in business, we are definitely polar opposites.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_04: I kind of say the yin to my yang, but I also believe it's that dynamic that has also allowed us to work, be able to work together.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_04: You very much have to have different skill sets.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_04: I think if two people are really good at the same thing, you are just gonna fight.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_04: But we are very different in our skill sets.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_04: So Trent obviously has an amazing knowledge of coffee because he'd worked in it for so long, but he's also an amazing salesperson and he's got amazing relationships and he's really good at that aspect of the business.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_04: Me, on the other hand, I'd already run a business, a small business, you know, two small businesses in my in my career twice successfully.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_04: And so I'm good at building teams, I'm the creative one, you know, I'm good at kind of the detail-oriented things.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_04: So if that's like HR or legal or whatever that might be, on a you know, working through those company structures is something that I'm good at.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_04: So we we balance each other out.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_04: We definitely don't see eye to eye being able to have a at times can be a robust conversation, but coming to an agreement and then both getting on board with that and supporting that together and saying.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense because that's and that's look, that's like all business relationships, but then you've got the added layer, obviously being husband and wife.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: Tell me a little bit about what I'm really interested in, is the way it all started.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_01: So, from my understanding, Trent, you know, went to Rwanda and was quite inspired by what he saw there.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: Tell us a little bit about the background and how this is helping to empower females in Rwanda, because I think that's the interesting uh lens on the story.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_04: Absolutely.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_04: And it's something that really motivates me every single day.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_04: So he wrote in 2015, Trent, because he is so well known in building what we call single surf or capsules, coffee capsules, he would go around and speak globally at different conferences.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_04: So he had an opportunity to go and speak in Rwanda at Origin.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_04: And when he was there, he met all these female farmers from the from the TUK cooperative.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_04: And when he was doing a talk, he just couldn't believe it.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_04: There were women there who had been growing coffee for 50 years, but they didn't even know what they were growing was coffee.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_04: They just called it white man's medicine.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_04: So they didn't understand how it was consumed.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_04: It would be like me having a paddock full of truffles and you coming and purchasing them, and I just sell them to you for a dollar, and I don't understand the value of it or how it's used.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_04: So that really kind of shocked him.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_04: And that for us was when we said, okay, this conversation, this, you know, our brand that we were kind of working towards, this has to change.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_04: We really need to change the conversation away from commodity and back to community and really highlight the people and the faces behind coffee.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_04: So the whole motivation for St.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_04: Remeo is really to change the conversation, show the producers and celebrate the producers because much like a wine, a wine grower, you we celebrate the wine grower and it's amazing, or the cattle farmer for their four score, wet and beef, whatever it might be.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_04: But yeah, when it comes to coffee, they're kind of the forgotten part of the chain.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_04: And I that that whole thing is that really has to change because a large portion of the world's coffee growers are actually female.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's like about 70%, from what I understand.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: Which is really incredible.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: And also what I find, you know, really quite, I suppose there's a disturbing element that these women are just seen as a cog in the chain rather than having any role, any ownership, any value.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we've heard that story on many fronts, haven't we?
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why I'm very inspired by what I see you guys doing.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: Talk to me a little bit about, you know, the what you actually actioned and implemented to try and educate and involve and engage these women in Rwanda.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_04: So literally at that meeting, at that conference, Trent kind of said to them, I'm going to find a way to help you.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_04: The one piece that that community needed was a cupping lab.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_04: And that's a like a standalone building that allows them to roast their own coffee and to cup it to understand the flavor nuances.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_04: And by doing that, you allow them to sell their coffee, know what their coffee's worth, and sell it to international traders.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_04: So it's really empowering the business.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_04: So he made that commitment then and there.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_04: And then it was for us about saying, well, we need to obviously make that product work and start selling to so that we can actually go back and fund that project.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_04: So it's really for us, we're driving to empower them in business.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_04: And they are motivated, just like we are, by their family, by providing for their families to give them a better education.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_04: Coffee growing is really hard and laborious.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_04: And they are farming when I went to Rwanda on slopes that are like this.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_04: Like if you fall, you're dead.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_04: Like it's it is crazy, let alone pick the cherries, put 40 kilos on your head, climb back up, and then and then ride your bike or walk it back into town to get it weighed.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_04: So we really want to make sure that we are giving back to these communities, asking them what they require in order to thrive, ensuring that we pay a fair price for coffee.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_04: We have a CEDEX certification that verifies that no slave labor, that we pay, so it's 100% verified to make sure that we are giving back to these communities and allowing them to thrive, but also ensuring that we're protecting coffee for the future to come because people are paying such low prices, so under what it costs for them to produce, they're actually abandoning their coffee fields in droves.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_04: And that's a global problem.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's no longer viable for them.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: Is that what you mean?
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_04: That's right.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_04: It's not no longer viable.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_04: So they need they they rip out the crops and they change to, it could be, you know, in Rwanda, they grow eucalyptus trees for wood, it could be bananas, it can be anything that they can make more income from, you know, as a sustainable or stable income from.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_04: So what has to happen from from all brands is that not only should we, you know, absolutely source sustainable coffee, certified sustainable coffee, but we have to ensure that we're paying farmers a fair price for their coffee to ensure that they can invest in their families, but they can warrant the investment of doing that farming.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_04: And we're attracting the the younger generation coming through to also know that that's a viable career option for them as well.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_04: Because if we're not protecting the coffee growers now, then in the future we will have, obviously, there's such a massive demand for coffee, but we won't have the volume.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_04: So then you'll see your cup of coffee go to$8 and$9.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: And the other thing that is very important too is that you're educating the buyers of coffee because I don't think people fully appreciate some of those items that you've outlined.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's not something that's well known amongst.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you have your, you know, what, you have a coffee every morning.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: Most people I know do, if not too.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: And there really is no sense of where it all comes from.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, yes, we know there's, you know, there's sort of general notions, but but what you're doing is actually making it a much more, I suppose, accessible story, and that we we have a responsibility.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: And once again, it's sort of like clothing, it's about ethical farming and ethical and treating these people with the respect they deserve.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_04: Absolutely, and ensuring that the consumer also, like you said, we all drink coffee.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_04: We love coffee, but we drink it.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_04: I'm having one now, which is great.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_04: So, but people are a bit, you know, we kind of drink it and we don't think, we don't give it two thoughts.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_04: And that's the conversation that we want to change.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_04: We want to say, well, every within every cup of coffee that you enjoy, my thing is there's a thousand stories in that cup.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_04: There are so many people that that one cup of coffee can affect and have a really positive or negative effect on, but with us, it's a positive effect.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_04: And simply by choosing a brand like us and Remyo, you're allowing us to fund projects and infrastructure that empower them in business, that allow them.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_04: So, for us, we've been supporting for the last three years our female farming cooperative of Cockigi Rwanda, and we've doubled their output.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_04: We've bought them at about 20,000 coffee trees along the journey.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and this year we'll see the first harvest of the first round of that, which is so exciting.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: So exciting.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's really wonderful to see that in action and to see that transformation.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: And the cupping lab gives them access to also understand what the coffee beans, I'm assuming that's educated and engaged them as well, so that they absolutely and communities around them.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_04: So it's also about teaching farmers.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_04: So if they come in and they cup their coffee and it's got undesirable flavoured notes, it's also about educating them about then how they can go back and farm and re-chain or you know, uh repurpose, mulching, different things, different techniques that they can then implement to change the quality of the crop that's growing too.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_04: So it's allowing them to also go back and re-educate the farmer to ensure that they can also earn higher income from that.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_04: So that carping lab is also an educational piece, you know, for the wider community as well.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_04: And it really kind of allows people to, like I said, earn a fair income and really grow and develop and thrive.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_04: And that's what we're about.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_04: It's about making sure that position where we are able to support these communities.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_04: So simply by choosing a brand like us, allowing us to do that, your your impact is is lasting, is absolutely lasting.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: And what about so you're obviously in quite a lot of, you're working with a lot of corporates, um, you know, be it Coles or whoever.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: Is it also, are you finding that you're also able to change the dialogue at the corporate level about how coffee's made and empowering these women?
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, to change culture and to change attitude at this end, getting some of those corporates on board to understand the journey, are you finding that they're responsive to that?
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_04: We are, and and that's the reason why we've had, you know, we're only a company that's six years old.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_04: So, you know, we're still looking to be a startup.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_04: But that's what's allowed us to have sit start to see some success overseas is that people are really responding and really resonating with what we're about, you know, wanting to be part of this.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_04: What we it's a movement, um, you know, wanting to be part of that movement and say, you know what, we are consciously going to support a brand that's doing something great uh for communities.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_04: And by doing that, we're allowing us to continue to do that work.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_04: Because look, without a customer, without a retailer, this is a concept that's great, but we, you know, it doesn't mean anything.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_04: We need we need the retailers, we need the customers, we need people to really believe in us if we're able to do anything that's gonna have lasting impact.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_04: And one of the things that I've talked about uh, you know, to my staff as well is that you know, these days we spend a lot of time on influence.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_04: You know, there's a lot of things to talk about influences and the their influence on selling a product or a brand.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_04: But I say that influence is fleeting because can you remember what that person posted two days ago?
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_04: The answer is no.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_04: And do they even believe in what they're posted, or is it just cash for comment?
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_04: But what you're doing by supporting a brand like ours is that you're creating impact.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_04: So it's like influence versus impact.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_04: I would much rather support a brand that's doing positive and lasting impact.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_04: When I went back to Rwanda in 2019, and that's when we officially opened the cupping lab, to walk down that hill and see about 150 women dancing with their husbands, a full celebration of opening that cupping lab.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, Trent and I were not expecting that at all.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_04: And I had a friend who was a photographer there with us and as well as a videographer who captured that moment.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_04: And we just all of us had tears streaming down our face.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_04: That's impact.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_04: That's lasting.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's changing the conversation as well.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a bit as I, you know, I draw that sort of analogy of changing the conversation around ethical production of clothing.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's a similar concept.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_01: Respecting the people that create and that the that we really rely on to create those products and treating them with regard in the way that you are is very exciting.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: Tell me a little bit about also now how's COVID, because you were there in 2019, how's COVID impacting the farmers and this particular product chain?
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: Is it because I can only imagine that it's quite challenging in Rwanda right now.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, it definitely is.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_04: They're actually in lockdown, as we speak, they've gone into another lockdown.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_04: Look, it's definitely challenging because the villagers or the coffee farmers they can be very, very remote.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_04: So, you know, getting things like vaccines and all of that is a real challenge in those countries because everyone is so is so spread out.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_04: So it's not like they're all clustered in a city, you know, they're all small pot farmers and they are very, very remote.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_04: So they it's absolutely they're in the lockdown.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_04: So that obviously affects their harvesting.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_04: You know, they still have the sanitation processes in place, you know, they still they wear masks just like you know, we do.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_04: But of course, you know, they live in, you know, you you see them that all the communities they really help each other out.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_04: So you you see all the kids in the neighborhood, they've got their three-month-old brother strapped to their back, you know, they're kind of really helping raise the family as well while the parents are going to work in different things.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_04: But those communities, they're all tied, you know, they're all close to each other.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_04: So it's absolutely a real challenge, and it's a challenge from a healthcare perspective too, because their access to hospitals, etc., is is very different to something like we have here.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_04: So it's absolutely having an impact on the on the growers, it's a challenge.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: So, in that regard, does so, in terms of their production, but also getting your produce across the line and the beans, etc., how are you finding that?
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: Is it impacting the import?
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure the supply chain's being impacted.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: It must be, and it's it's really hard because you're building something, you're building a bridge, and then that bridge is getting, you know, impacted in that way.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_04: So at the end of the day, it's still they have to, they obviously have to harvest and they have to make the money.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_04: So again, it's obviously it would take maybe a little bit longer to get there, but we are there's definitely a price hike.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, there's about a 30% price hike that's happening now in um in coffee.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_04: So definitely, I think those constraints are coming across in the prices.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_04: But we uh kind of work so far in advance that we have a lot of supply of all different beans because we source beans from all around the world.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_04: So at least we have access and we have a supply that that's there.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_04: I think that the pinch will kind of we'll feel a flow and effect from that, you know, in probably a year to come, because obviously we've got a such a large stockholding now.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_04: But yeah, so it's absolutely a challenge for for all roasters kind of going around at the moment.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_04: There's like I said, it's managing your cost of goods as well, and you know, there's margin expectations in that.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_04: So absolutely it's it's a challenge.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I read that you'd missed, or you talked about missing a huge production deadline with a new retailer when you just signed with Coles.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, how did you tell tell us how that sort of went down and how you recovered?
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: It was.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, certainly in our business, it just hasn't been a normal, a normal six years.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_04: We've we've really had a real heavy series of challenges.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_04: I think the universe kind of says, okay, here's a challenge.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_04: Can you cope?
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_04: And if you can, I'll grant you to the next level.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_04: And then from there you get something else, and you've just got to keep getting a thicker, thicker layer of skin because the yeah, the bigger that you become, you know, there are there are more problems, but they're kind of scalable, and you've got to be able to weather that.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_04: So when we got our we got our first big break in um in 2018, when we got accepted into Kohl's with our range of expressi, Aldi Expressi compatible capsules and capillary compatible capsules.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_04: And it was it was amazing.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_04: We were related.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_04: It was the opportunity that we had been just fighting for, and we finally got our foot in the door.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_04: So again, when you when you land into a big retailer, there are set dates of when you have to have the product in and where they have to kind of put it on the shelf.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_04: So we're like, okay, so we're working frantically towards those dates.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_04: But unfortunately, the packaging line, the production line, because it's a very new product and it's a bit of a world first that that capsule that we launched into the supermarket, we just had so many issues that we just we couldn't hit the deadline.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_04: And I remember like which we pushed and we pushed and we pushed, and I kept saying, I in my heart of hearts, I believe that we're gonna get there, but it was it was bleak, things just weren't working out, we were having problems building boxing on the line, it was just a nightmare.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_04: And then, you know, we got the news like there was gonna be a delay of about two and a half months, and usually that's that's it.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_04: Like they say, thank you.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_04: And so we just looked at each other and we're like, you know, as quickly as it came, it's over.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so we remember calling the buyer, and we couldn't get her at the time.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_04: We left a message and sent an email, and we just were we were absolutely devastated.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_04: But again, my gut instinct was telling me somehow, some some way, I really believe we're gonna get there.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know how, because it seems super impossible right now, but I just feel like this isn't it for us.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_04: Our story's not done here.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_04: And then she called us back one.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_04: Week later, and she's like, Okay, fine.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_04: When's the when is the new date that you can get it in?
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_04: And it's unheard of to have like a someone cut product in on shelf kind of mid year.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_04: And we fell to the floor crying.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_04: Our whole team just like hugged at each other and we're like, you know, we're alive, we're we're alive.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_04: But now we cannot have any of this stuff up.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_04: So we literally, when the production uh when the next production date was set, we flew uh my husband straight over to Italy.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_04: So he was there and so he could see everything.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_04: And literally, as it was coming off the line, because it was a brand new, it was like a fully brand new product, it was coming off the line.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_04: So the production numbers, the scale wasn't there yet, we would pack the palette and fly it out.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_04: Pack the pallet and fly it out.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_04: So literally we just were doing this the whole time.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: So it goes to show though, often when I speak to people, and it's it's really common, that the toughest time, like you've just outlined, is when you learn the greatest lesson.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: And really what you did was just, as you say, you fli flew Trent over to actually physically oversee and manage production, packaging production, which is obviously the biggest challenge.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_01: And so you learned certain infrastructure that you may not have otherwise implemented.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: So absolutely.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_04: It was it was a it was a very testing time.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and like to the delivery was to the wire.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_04: But we were really lucky um that the buyer, not only did we have a really unique product, uh again, a capsule, the first and only compatible capsule with the AliExpress machine and Caffe Ling machine, grateful to have a buyer that really believed in us and said, okay, well, despite what you're facing, I'm prepared to still back you in and give it a go.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_04: And we just fought tooth and nail to not let her down because this was what we needed to fund the cupping lab.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_04: This was this was the project that was going to get us to support those women that we made a commitment to in 2015.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: You also had another big challenge.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_01: Now you fought and won against a big global company that sued you.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: Tell us a little bit about that story.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_04: I wouldn't wish this upon anyone.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_04: It is honestly one of the worst and most challenging experiences you could ever go through in your life.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_04: So, what happened is because, as I said, that capsule that we had fought so hard to get into Coles.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_04: So, what happened was unfortunately the night of Trent's birthday, I received a phone call from my lawyer at about eight o'clock at night, and we had his family over and we were celebrating his birthday and we had the most amazing day, and I got a phone call uh from my lawyer, and I remember looking at my phone thinking, why would they be calling it this late?
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_04: And just thought, well, I'm not answering it because you know it's important to be spending time with the family.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_04: But then the voicemail came and thought, well, I'll listen to that.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_04: And the voicemail was, Hi Julia, I'm really sorry to let you know that unfortunately you are being sued in the federal court, and so is your husband and the company.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_04: Um and I literally, my jaw, I mean, the colour just left my face.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_04: I punched the table and said an expletive and just ran upstairs because we were putting my uh my husband's upstairs putting our son to bed, who was three at the time, and just said, I'm so sorry, but we're being sued and you know, kind of like parties over.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_04: And then his parents were just like in shock.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_04: And then the phone calls, like we just started.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_04: So again, we were speaking to a manufacturing partner and letting them know.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_04: Um, we were did you see this coming?
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: Did you have any indication this was on the cards potentially?
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_04: Look, when we launched the product, we knew that there absolutely uh could have been a chance that someone was going to do this to us.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_04: We had done all our due diligence, dotted our I's and crossed our T's, but thinking maybe or preparing for it and then receiving it is two really different things.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_04: And these guys are enormous, and I'm gonna say really acted in a very unethical manner and really tried to bully us, which I just think is which is awful.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_04: And I there was nothing we had done so much work and we had put so much into this product, and we had so many plans for helping communities.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_04: I just wasn't going to roll over and say, this is all too much.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_04: And when I told people and friends and family, and let me tell you, nothing like a crisis like this really shows you, and it's sad, who who really supports you and who doesn't.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_04: Because in that time, uh lots of people abandoned me, which is really sad.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_04: And friends I'd had for a really long time just kind of, I don't know if they thought it was too much, but when they found out, they just all backed off.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_04: And I was never asking anyone to solve my problems because they can't.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_04: I'm just asking for people to check in because this went for two and a half years of my life.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_04: And you know, when you are dealing with a court case, it is it's up and down like a yo-yo.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_04: So you think you're kind of going okay, and then something happens, and then you know, then it's incredibly stressful.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_04: And it literally was a full-time job.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_04: And my way of handling it was to say, okay, I said to Trent, all right, this is a night, this is a total nightmare.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_04: But if we both really get involved with this, we are collectively gonna go down a rabbit hole together, and it's just not gonna be good for anyone.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_04: So while they are busy focusing on us, I need you to keep your head in the game and keep selling.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm gonna split this in the middle.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_04: You're gonna do that, and I will deal with this.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_04: But in times when you are dealing with such a massive pressure, because I didn't want to, you know, and there are times where I put my son to bed and I just look at him and think, please, Julia, excuse my language, please don't fuck this up.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_04: And have to say to your son, I'm really sorry, mummy stuffed it, and you have to just pack up your toys and your clothes, and that's it.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_04: We've got nothing.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_04: Because that's what this was, you know.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_04: What when we when we went for this, we rolled the dice on our entire life.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_04: And there is nothing more sobering and also empowering with that, but I never was going to let someone tell me or dictate to me what my business and what my future was going to hold because they had more money or were trying to be really just bully us into a corner, and I just was never gonna back down.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_04: And I had people say, run, run, please, you know, why would you do this?
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_04: And I was like, This because I I've we did our due diligence and I believe in this, and this product is gonna be the cornerstone of our business, and I'm not gonna let someone take that away from me and because they think they can.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_04: So it was at times could be really dark for me and really isolating.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_04: And I just remember lots, I think I did it three times, Googling in bed because I could never sleep.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_04: It'll be 2 a.m.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_04: Am I having a nervous breakdown?
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_04: You know, am I okay?
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_04: Because the pressure was enormous.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_04: And I just needed to keep a really strong front from my staff because I didn't want them to freak out and think, oh, what does this mean?
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_04: Am I gonna lose my job?
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_04: What does this look like?
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_04: So it's it's coming in being like, ah, you know, and everything's gonna be okay, don't worry, which I in my heart of hearts believed, but at times you just get pushed so hard and it can look really bleak.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_04: Because the other thing is, I'm putting my faith in others and hoping that they can argue the issue correctly.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_04: Because when it comes to law, we're playing in shades of grey.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_04: It's not right or wrong, it's not black or white, it's not ethical and unethical.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_04: It's who argues better, who's got a better team?
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_01: Who's more equipped?
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_01: It is actually often the case, but you obviously had faith in yourself and in the product and in your position to take on a two and a half year battle, which you probably didn't anticipate would be that long, but because you never do, no, people never do, but no, you never but at the end of the day, you obviously had a sense of conviction, and that's something that takes a lot of courage and strength, particularly as a mum of two young kids.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_04: Absolutely.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_04: It was, you know, my son was obviously him, my family, but was a massive motivator for me.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_04: And every time I also was feeling really overwhelmed or, you know, wasn't in a great headspace, I would watch all the videos that we we did when we were in Rwanda like over and over again and just keep clicking the button and just thinking to myself, okay, I like I made a commitment and I know because I'd been to Origin, I know what my destiny is.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_04: It's this.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_04: I just can't give up on this, and I can't let someone take that away.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_04: This is not the end of my story.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_04: I not only this community, but there are people that I haven't even met yet, that this business and this brand is going to help.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_04: And I can't, I just can't let that go.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_04: I just can't let that go.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_04: And I've watched it over and over and over again.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_04: And I also listened to one song on repeat, which was Imagine Dragons, whatever it takes.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_04: And literally, even every day, literally, I think that song has been listened to, let's say, 500 million times.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_04: I reckon I'm 100.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_04: I love that.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_01: The power of music, huh?
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_01: To kick on some.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_01: Music therapy.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_01: I call it music therapy.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely with you.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I totally get as I walked to court every day.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_04: Because the thing was like when you when you get sued, generally, it's pretty rare that you actually end up in court.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_04: You generally mediate and you're able to kind of work your way through it, not us.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: So mediation didn't work, and I'm we didn't get there.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_01: We didn't even get to there.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_01: So they were quite a big player, which obviously you can't mention at this point, but I'm assuming that you were vindicated in some form.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_04: Absolutely.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_04: So, like I said, we knew we had done our due diligence and we really backed up uh backed ourselves in.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_04: And our we had a really amazing team.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_04: I called them, I had like Harry Potter, I called them Harry Potter, and we'll we'll beating Voldemort.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_04: I know that sounds crazy, but literally I had two guys, Ron and Harry, and then a and a really brilliant uh young barrister.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_04: And her name is Angela, and she was my harmani, and she they just wore their black capes, but there was two C like this was really big stuff.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_04: These we weren't dealing with just lawyers.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_04: There were, you know, we walked into a room and they had a team of 11, and we had a team of nine.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_04: Like this was this was serious big stuff, and very expensive, I have no doubt.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_04: Horribly expensive, and there's nothing worse than like every day I just walked in, so I listened to my song, I just had to get my head in the game, and I really had to learn to take the emotion out of the decision making because a level head makes level decisions.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_04: But if I ever stepped into the the thinking of how dare they, how the you know, they're doing this against me and get really personal, that you make terrible, terrible decisions in that case.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_04: And I've seen friends who have gone through um uh one in particular's had a really big case and just totally fueled by emotion and anger, and it blew up.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_04: It all went bad because it was a terrible motivation.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_04: So it's it's it can be easy to play there, it can easily you can easily get there, but I just had to sit there every time and just think, okay, nope, pull your head above it.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_04: It's business, right?
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_04: They're trying to scare us, but it's business, and let's make level-headed business decisions in order to ensure that we have the best outcome we can, and that I can I have tried my absolute best.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_04: And I had to unify my legal team and really get them to work together and really because that you know, when you're dealing with lawyers and QCs, etc., they've got thousands of cases going on at once.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_04: Correct.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_04: How do I get them to give that extra love to me?
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_01: Sounds like you compartmentalized as well.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so what you're actually so lessons learned here were to compartmentalize, to separate Trent from the journey so that he could continue with the growing and fostering of the business.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_01: New focus on the challenge, staying level-headed and business-like.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think those are really important and not letting the emotion take over is it's a lot of uh self-discipline.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and like so again, when I look back at that experience, because I mean we only just came out of this recently.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_04: So we won, they appealed, we were back in there.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_04: And lucky for us, we had our first court hearing before COVID really hit.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm really grateful that everything, because we had flown in, you know, people from into overseas as experts, etc.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_04: But doing that all remotely, I think also could have really impacted the outcome of the case.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I really think that's a good point.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I'm really grateful that we kind of just got in there before the courts all became remote.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_04: So I think that for us is a is a real blessing.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_04: And there are certain things along the way.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_04: I remember sitting with, you know, like I said, it's been a, it was a at times a really isolating journey because there's not many, I don't really know, I only know one other person that's ever kind of gone through this.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_04: So it was a really isolating journey.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_04: I had some friends really rally around me and throw their arms around me and just make sure that uh mentally I was okay.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_04: And then, like I said, others just say, oh, and then and and leave me in in droves.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_04: So it was a really, it's a really interesting phase of my life.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_04: And I've just really always always said I'm a really loyal person.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_04: But for me, it's like this you are with me at the bottom and you are with me at the top.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_04: But regardless, I am the same person.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_04: I am the same person.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_04: All I ever wanted was people just to support me or just check in to say, because it's heavy.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_04: It's it's really, really heavy in the fact that we could have lost absolutely everything and been effectively homeless.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_04: That's the dice we were rolling.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_01: So it's pretty, pretty big dice and pretty serious.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_01: But you sound like you've really worked to be disciplined and to be courageous because it's pretty scary.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_01: Because sometimes in that situation, you want to actually withdraw and not deal with the big but you had no choice from what you're describing.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_01: No, and you felt it was an injustice that needed addressing.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_01: And so, in terms of what you learned about your own strength in that context, has it sort of given you some sense of moving forward, how you would deal with things in the future?
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_01: And what is the future looking like having come through this?
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_04: Look, the future for us is bright.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, I'm a glass half-full kind of girl.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_04: I I don't panic, I'm a very consistent person.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_04: But the day you see me panic is the day you all know everybody something's really bad is going on.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_04: It's gonna take a lot to really rattle me.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_04: It takes a lot.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_04: And now, when things, you know, because business is up and down.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_04: You're winning, you're losing.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_04: It's like a boxing match.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_04: Sometimes you go in, you throw the KO, you're like, yes, and then the next day you'll get knocked out.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_04: But you just got to pick yourself up every day, dust yourself off, and get back in the ring because that is it's just a constant battle every time.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_04: But I love, I do love that challenge.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_04: But it's also about saying, well, I've I've come through this.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_04: Nothing for me can be worse than that.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_04: Nothing can be so every challenge that comes to my mind is it doesn't matter.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_04: I can find a solution for this.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_04: It's not that.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_01: On that front, you've had your own personal journey, I'm aware, and you've had something probably equally as challenging.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_01: Talk to me a little bit about a pretty difficult battle when it came to falling pregnant and you went on the IVF pathway.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_04: I'm a proud IVF mother of two children, and I'm incredibly grateful uh to science and that my doctor, which is Dr.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_04: Limbommeister, who was the one who got me there.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_04: I was diagnosed at 25 with pre-cancero itself.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_04: So I had half of my cervix removed.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_04: And they said to me then and there, you will have IVF, like you are going to struggle.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_04: I'm like, oh, this is too much, I can't handle this right now.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_04: And they're like, we should book you in now, you need to start.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_04: I was like, I just can't deal with this.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm and I was with Trent at the time, and I remember saying to him, Oh, this is just a bit too much, like you know, we'd only been together for a year and a bit.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_04: And he's like, look, don't worry, if we just end up being parents to dogs, whatever, if that's our journey, that's that's that's okay.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_04: And I really appreciated that.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_04: And of course, when we decided to start trying to have a family, in the back of my mind, I knew that I had really was trying to avoid it.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_04: And then I found out that I had polycystic ovaries, I have one blocked full opium chip.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_04: Like, I'm a disaster.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_04: I am an absolute basket, okay, when it comes to this.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_04: And that realization was pretty hard.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_04: It certainly explained some health issues I had, and so at least I was like, that makes sense.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_04: But you, as a woman, feel like such a failure.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_04: Like I'm like, I'm built for this, and all of a sudden I can't do it.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_04: And I really struggled uh mentally with that for a long time.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_04: And uh part of that, too, was my fear of going down that path of IVF.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_04: And I had so many friends who had done RVF and tell me, you see, Dr.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_04: Limburn Meister, it's okay.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_04: And I just I just couldn't deal with it.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_04: But eventually I just had to put my hands up in the air and say, okay, like this is what it is.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_04: And it was such a sense of relief, to be honest, when I saw her, because it was like all of a sudden, all this pressure that was on me and that I was putting on myself because my body wasn't working, I kind of let it go and gave it to her.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_04: And it's like I had someone just take that from me.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_04: And she was like, This is fine, you know, when when would you like to get pregnant?
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_04: I was like, What?
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_04: And then I just kind of treated it, and this sounds I treated it like a job.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_04: I didn't want to get too emotionally involved because it's IBF is really it's a it's a hard journey.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_04: But if I really spent too much emotional time there, I I just think it would really not work well for me.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_04: So I said, decompare, ugh, I can never say that word, but that is exactly how I treat it.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_01: Kind of compartmentalize it and just put it into correct space it, yeah, if it need it to be, yeah.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_04: Deal with it, put it down, and then move on.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_04: So when we we obviously I can take a lot, but I just can't give myself needles.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_04: I'm like, Drake, that's your that's your job.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_04: And he doesn't like needed needles either, he's not a phobia of all the body's.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_01: Oh well, you two must be like very funny.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like that would have been quite challenging.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_01: Neither of you like needles, but no, but he did it.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_04: He he's like, no, I've got this.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_04: He stood up and he and he and he, you know, would always give me the needles.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_04: Then you know, we had a our first one was it was a miscarriage.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_04: So when I found out I was pregnant, I remember I was at a photo shoot and I was like, oh, this is amazing.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_04: You know, we we lost that baby effectively seven days later.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_04: So in that first but that's okay.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_04: I as I always say it it wasn't healthy, so it wasn't meant to be.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_04: I also believe that I'm a workaholic, right?
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_04: I I really am, and I think again the universe was saying to me, Do you really want this?
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_04: And then when it was taken away from me and I was so upset, it's like, yes, I did.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_04: I really wanted this, and it was like what I needed to say, like, okay, so that's fine.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_04: I just I took a break.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_01: That's good.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_01: So you stopped work for a little while.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_02: Oh no, no, no, no, no.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_02: I kept working place.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_02: I kept working.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, you took a break from IVF, okay, right.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I took a program.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, correct.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_04: I took a holiday with my girlfriend just to clear my mind, then came back and said, okay, I can let's let's go again.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_04: And on the second time, we were really lucky enough to fall pregnant with Hunter.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_04: But again, I we just when we found out we're like this, again, it sounds really bad.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_04: We're like this, yay! And I said, and that was it.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_04: We're like, let's not celebrate it, let's not get too attached.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_04: Um, it sounds awful, but we were so excited the first time, and it just kind of it went, it happened and went so quickly.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_04: So I just we just said, no, no, let's just we'll say yay, fist pump, and then we'll just kind of keep going because again, you didn't want to get over excited and casting.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_04: No, and then it and something went wrong.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_04: So we and like I didn't really even tell many people.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_04: People would I remember I was working at Spring Racing Cardinal all the time, and people were like, Are you pregnant?
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_04: And I was like, This, yeah, I guess okay, but I didn't even want to tell anyone because I didn't want to do this big Facebook announcement, and then something would go wrong, and then you have to kind of explain that too.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_04: I just thought that's all too much, it's all too much pressure.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_04: So we just really kept it kind of low-key, and then we had our beautiful, our beautiful baby son, and he was healthy and gorgeous, and I just feel so lucky.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_04: And then obviously, we got sued when he was two, just turning three, and then for because of my stress levels.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_04: Every time I was like, I'm really, you know, I'm 30, I'm 39 this year, so my clock is is ticking, and my body's getting older.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_04: So I was like, I really would like to have just one more.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_04: And every time I went to the doctor, they're like, This, no, like in your current state, you know, and my body was going haywire with all the stresses.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_04: In your current, yeah, you you just you you cannot, and how can you add on another thing of IVF and taking needles and all that pressure that comes with that too?
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_04: And it was really that was a hard one for me too, because I just wanted a baby so badly, but I was really, to be honest, so unsure.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_04: Sorry.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's fine, Julie.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_01: I I I totally and you know what, it just shows how extraordinary because now you can actually let the emotion out because you've actually done it and and you've done it all, and it's really quite an extraordinary story, and you know you're not alone, and it's yeah, now you've got your two beautiful children.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_01: And our listeners will uh many of our listeners will relate to this story, let me tell you.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_01: You are not alone on it.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's a very it's more common than I think people realize.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_04: So I always put my hand up now and say, like, I had IVF, you know, don't go get a checkup, don't worry.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_04: There's a be open with it too, because there is a whole community that's there, like me, that will wrap their arms around you and help you because it is challenging.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_03: And I know how bad that is when you want something, and maybe it wasn't gonna happen.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm so grateful with my daughter who's just asleep upstairs.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_03: And she's three months.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_03: How old is she?
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_03: She is four, she's four and a half months, and she's so she's just beautiful and such a happy girl.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_03: But I just look at her and think, Oh, I'm so grateful that I got there and I was able to have you.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_03: So, because it was all I wanted, and I was obviously so stuck in a really challenging part of our of our lives.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_04: But I'm really grateful that no, you know, we won the court case, yay, but of course, that I was able to have and be able to provide for that beautiful little girl upstairs and give my son, he always wanted a little sister, that was all he asked for, and to be able to give that to him as well is you know, it just meant everything to me.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_03: I I went we went through how for our family.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_03: We are motivated for our family, and I'm motivated for my family as well as all those other beautiful families overseas that we're helping because intrinsically we're all linked.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_04: We all just want the best for our children.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_04: We want to be able to give and provide for them, and I want to help not only my children, also show them and lead by example.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_04: Like the world's got enough assholes.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_04: Just be a good person, don't worry about money.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_04: Happiness is in your is with people and what you do and and how you live your life.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_04: I want to teach them that and that to be my legacy, but I also want to give that to other communities as well, and and and be in a position where we can we can really do that because I know how important it is to me.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_01: You have certainly shown that you can not only are you inspirational in the way that you have shown strength and courage on many fronts, but also it's a testimony to you and to your husband Trent and to the pathway that you've shared together.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_01: And and really, there's a lot of lessons learnt that I think we can all learn from you about tenacity, focus, making sure that if you have conviction about something that you actually follow through because you will then have some chance of actually getting what you want and also helping others and being respectful that it's not always easy for others, you know, that that saying you never know what somebody else is going through, be very careful about how to judge them.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think you're a very, very good example of somebody who has shown not only conviction but compassion.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, really I would like to thank you so much for sharing and being so honest and so authentic about your story.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_01: And please, you take care.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_01: You you certainly I'm looking forward to tasting your coffee.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_01: I haven't tasted it yet.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm looking forward to converting you.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_03: We're gonna convert you.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I am open.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a coffee lover.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I would like to thank you for joining us on the What I've Learnt podcast.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's been an absolute treat.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_01: And once again, thank you so much for your honesty and your authenticity.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_03: Well, thank you so much for having me.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_03: Like I said, it's it's a it's a it's a real honour to be able to kind of share my story.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_03: You know, both that people enjoy listening to it, and thank you so much.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_03: It's amazing.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_03: Take care.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_03: You too.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks so much for listening.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_01: The What I've Learned podcast will now be coming to you weekly, with new episodes released every Tuesday.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_01: I'm blessed to have so many wonderful guests coming on the show.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_01: So check out my What I've Learned Instagram for updates.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_01: Meanwhile, stay tuned, kind and curious.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_01: Love dear.