Latest / Bug Hive with Benny Feldman / Tim Platt - Baby Comedy, Music Comedy

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Tim Platt - Baby Comedy, Music Comedy · Bug Hive with Benny Feldman

• 0:00
  What's up, dog?
• 0:01
  >> Oh, hey, man. I'm so happy to be here.
• 0:02
  >> Good to have you here, dude. How you How
• 0:04
  you doing?
• 0:05
  >> I'm okay. No, I'm not. Well, you know
• 0:07
  what? Actually, no.
• 0:10
  >> Really? Is that Is that new father mode?
• 0:12
  Is that
• 0:13
  >> Yeah, that's new father mode. That's new
• 0:14
  father mode. Like I have a six-month-old
• 0:16
  at home and he's awesome, but it's just
• 0:18
  like I'm going through everything that
• 0:20
  every media or piece tells you about or
• 0:23
  every personal person tells you about,
• 0:24
  you know, a personal person, but like
• 0:27
  like every every week is like very
• 0:29
  challenging and there's always a feeling
• 0:31
  in your head that's like nobody told me
• 0:33
  how hard this would be and then a second
• 0:34
  later you're like everyone's told you
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  this is hard and it just turns out it is
• 0:39
  and there's nothing interesting about it
• 0:41
  and that's kind of sucks. Do you know
• 0:42
  what I mean,
• 0:43
  >> right? You just are like you simply have
• 0:44
  to grunt down and do it kind of energy.
• 0:47
  >> Yeah, a little bit where it's like, oh,
• 0:48
  I'm he's not sleeping, which means I'm
• 0:51
  going to bounce him for 20 minutes in a
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  dark room in the middle of the day for a
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  nap where it's beautiful outside, but
• 0:56
  he's got to go to sleep now or else
• 0:58
  bedtime's ruined. You know, it's like
• 0:59
  all these like little pieces of the day
• 1:01
  affect every other piece of the day, and
• 1:03
  you just like get very invested on
• 1:05
  mundane things for us. For him, it's
• 1:07
  like everything's new and cool and like
• 1:09
  exciting, but
• 1:10
  >> he's having a blast in the dark. He's
• 1:11
  loving the dark. Oh, he's he's laughing
• 1:13
  while he's supposed to go to bed. That's
• 1:15
  funny. That's cool. But it's just tough.
• 1:17
  And like you're dis I hate to jump into
• 1:19
  with this stuff, but I might as well be
• 1:21
  open about energy. It's like you're
• 1:22
  disconnected from your peers. You don't
• 1:23
  have a lot of time to take care of
• 1:24
  yourself. It's like the things you can
• 1:26
  do are like very few not as much as you
• 1:29
  used to be able to do. It's just kind of
• 1:31
  nuts.
• 1:32
  >> And it's like where like getting a
• 1:33
  babysitter or something comes in. You
• 1:34
  like have to be very deliberate. You're
• 1:36
  like, "We're going on a night out. We
• 1:37
  have like a a plan." So that's hard if
• 1:42
  because if your kid can't go to sleep
• 1:44
  with anyone else, you know what I mean?
• 1:45
  It's like putting them to bed is a very
• 1:47
  complicated thing. And so having someone
• 1:49
  come and put him to bed is like kind of
• 1:50
  a recipe for the kid not to go to bed,
• 1:53
  >> you know? Or like it to be chaotic. And
• 1:55
  so part of it is just like letting go
• 1:56
  and being like he can have a chaotic
• 1:57
  night and that's okay.
• 1:59
  >> But you're like, but I don't want him
• 2:01
  to. So no, no one can relieve me. No, I
• 2:03
  can't see any movies. You know,
• 2:05
  >> it's like it's very it's nuts.
• 2:07
  >> Damn. Is it okay if I talk about this?
• 2:09
  >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. No, please.
• 2:12
  Yeah.
• 2:12
  >> I've started at shows.
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  >> I don't know what to ask.
• 2:15
  >> Well, I think it's fair. I just started
• 2:16
  at shows being like, "Is it okay if I
• 2:18
  talk about kids?" Like, oh, I've been
• 2:20
  saying, "Do you want to hear me talk
• 2:21
  about kids?" And if they say yes or no,
• 2:23
  I just go very much like, "Why? Why do
• 2:26
  you want that? Why do you not want
• 2:28
  that?" You know?
• 2:29
  >> Well, I for me, the yes is like kind of
• 2:31
  a future idea of like, okay, well, what
• 2:33
  would it be like? You know what I mean?
• 2:35
  Yeah. I'm curious about um making him
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  laugh. Does that feel like a good real
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  laugh or does that feel like a a cheap
• 2:41
  laugh?
• 2:42
  >> No. None of the laughs feel cheap. This
• 2:44
  is the good part.
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  >> They feel earned.
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  >> Yeah, they feel amazing. They feel
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  amazing and like
• 2:51
  >> and there's two types of laughs. Well,
• 2:53
  no, there's a bunch of different types
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  of laughs, but the the two types of
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  laughs in a six-month-old for right now,
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  we'll say that I have like diagrammed
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  like one the first type is ones that you
• 3:03
  make. Yeah.
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  >> Yeah. I'm going to diagram. I mean,
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  actually, I would love to do that at
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  some point.
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  >> Like the first type is a type that you
• 3:09
  make or an adult makes him laugh, you
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  know, and that can be anything from
• 3:13
  peekaboo, that can be raspberry, that
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  can be tickling, that could be saying
• 3:17
  his name in a really high voice and he's
• 3:19
  here and good morning, you know, like
• 3:21
  that stuff.
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  >> It works amazing.
• 3:23
  >> Yeah. Isn't that crazy?
• 3:24
  >> Got my ass.
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  >> I mean, I can do like, "Oh my god,
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  Benny, it's so great to see you. Good
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  morning."
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  >> Yeah. See? Amazing. Now, let's try a
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  raspberry.
• 3:32
  >> Yeah. Yeah, slam you on the table.
• 3:36
  >> We got the table.
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  >> Yeah, it's like uh but those are fun and
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  like even peekab-boo can become a little
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  creative or like a game that we play is
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  that he touches my face and I die. He
• 3:46
  touches my face again. Oh, I've woken
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  up, you know, like and that makes a
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  laugh.
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  >> And those are like so joyful and fun and
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  like addictive. But the best ones are
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  when he's just like doing nothing and
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  looking at stuff and then he just starts
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  laughing for like no reason whatsoever.
• 4:00
  And that's kind of like what's going
• 4:03
  that is like cuz you you hear that laugh
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  and it's like a similar laugh to the one
• 4:06
  that you made. So it's like you
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  something you found something funny.
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  >> There's some internal mechanism.
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  >> Something's there
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  >> inside that lock box.
• 4:14
  >> Yes.
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  >> Of the child's soft brain skull.
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  >> And it's like is it cuz like mommy and
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  daddy were walk mommy and daddy said
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  something to each other just like in
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  passing? Is it like you saw something?
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  It's it feels Sorry bump.
• 4:27
  >> Oh no worries. It just feels so
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  disconnected from
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  external stimulus or external stimulus
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  that you were in control of. So that
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  just feels very like I mean that's very
• 4:36
  that's that's the sort of like
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  allinspiring part of having kid. You're
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  like what is going on in a human being
• 4:41
  like what is this?
• 4:42
  >> That's cool. which has a third type of
• 4:44
  laugh which is uh he can tell you you're
• 4:46
  going for a joke but this one
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  >> yeah was like
• 4:51
  >> you do peekaboo he's like yeah
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  >> well there are so in the peekaboo there
• 4:56
  are moments where it's like you actually
• 4:57
  get him and then ones where you're like
• 5:00
  oh he's just on the rhythm for this one
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  that one didn't kill
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  >> really tell you you can sort of tell and
• 5:06
  that's very cool
• 5:07
  >> do can you tell he's is he humoring you
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  or is he just enjoying the rhythm
• 5:12
  >> he's enjoying the rhythm Okay. So, yeah.
• 5:14
  >> And he's waiting for the next one to
• 5:15
  come.
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  >> I love the idea that he's humoring you.
• 5:17
  >> He's I don't think he
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  >> he's figured out object permanence
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  already.
• 5:21
  >> Well, you know, it's funny about
• 5:22
  humoring. I don't know if he can do that
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  because one time I was feeding him I
• 5:27
  sing to him all the time and I was
• 5:28
  feeding him bottle.
• 5:29
  >> By the way, I don't think he's actually
• 5:30
  humoring you. I just like the idea that
• 5:31
  he
• 5:32
  >> Well, it's really I think that idea
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  >> I do think that is you project every
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  part of humanity onto a child and they
• 5:39
  can only really match a certain portion
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  of it and it's always really like
• 5:41
  beautiful what they can match but you do
• 5:43
  like you do have those questions. you're
• 5:44
  like, "Oh my god, does he like he loves
• 5:47
  nanny better than me, you know, like,
• 5:49
  "Oh, he's comparing us, you know, like,
• 5:50
  oh, he
• 5:53
  didn't really actually like that, you
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  know, but they can't really do that
• 5:55
  yet." They can only be very honest about
• 5:57
  things where
• 5:58
  >> So, I was like feeding him the bottle
• 6:00
  and I sing them all the time. I just
• 6:02
  started singing him again. I sort of
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  like just him always singing and he is
• 6:05
  usually cool with it, but he like
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  stopped bottle and like looked at me
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  with this face of like not now, you
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  know? And then I accidentally did it
• 6:12
  again. And he did that exact same face
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  of like not now. And that like I thought
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  that was very funny, but also really
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  cute cued to me is like oh he's telling
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  me he's telling me no. That's kind of
• 6:22
  cool.
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  >> It's like bottle time and then
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  >> yeah,
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  >> please don't sing now. I need to focus
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  on bottle cuz he's very distracted. He's
• 6:29
  on bottle. It's crazy.
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  >> He's on bottle.
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  >> That's so cool. And you're a good singer
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  by the way.
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  >> Thank you folks.
• 6:36
  >> Thank you.
• 6:37
  >> Pivoting off of child to your other
• 6:38
  baby.
• 6:39
  >> Yeah.
• 6:39
  >> I love the album.
• 6:40
  >> Oh, thank you so much. Oh, you mean the
• 6:42
  album Teeth Like Beat streaming on all
• 6:44
  platforms right now on Absolutely
• 6:46
  Records?
• 6:46
  >> No, not that one.
• 6:47
  >> H Oh, right. Oh, you mean Some kind of
• 6:49
  miracle on Virgin Records.
• 6:51
  >> Is that right?
• 6:52
  >> No, I just I just always wanted to have
• 6:54
  an album called Some Kind of Miracle.
• 6:57
  >> I uh No. Yeah. Teeth like Beak is great.
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  >> Thank you.
• 7:00
  >> I don't know what End of Movie Mean is.
• 7:01
  One of my favorites. Uh Yellow Bird.
• 7:03
  Yellow Bird.
• 7:04
  >> That one I'm going to record soon.
• 7:05
  >> Little is a bonus track.
• 7:07
  >> Yeah. Yeah.
• 7:08
  >> Cuz it's a sweet one, not a funny one.
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  Oh yeah, I was there by the way and I
• 7:12
  think I can hear my own laugh.
• 7:14
  >> Oh, that's fun.
• 7:15
  >> That's very fun. I love that when you
• 7:17
  when I hear a friend's recording, you
• 7:18
  hear my and I can hear my own laugh or I
• 7:19
  hear like Nick Nanny's laugh or
• 7:21
  something like that. You're like that's
• 7:22
  very recognized.
• 7:23
  >> No, I don't [ __ ] with Nick Nanny's
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  laugh.
• 7:25
  >> Really? No, I'm kidding.
• 7:26
  >> I would actually understand cuz it's so
• 7:27
  powerful and so mean-spirited. He's such
• 7:30
  an aggressive evil man.
• 7:31
  >> You can tell You can tell he wants to be
• 7:32
  up there with a stool.
• 7:33
  >> Yeah. Oh, yeah. I know.
• 7:34
  >> He's bitterly jealous of the stool.
• 7:36
  >> Shout out Nick Manning.
• 7:37
  >> We love Nick Manning. And then a few
• 7:39
  text threads would think they right now
• 7:41
  they're actually no a few are very
• 7:43
  active. A few are very active threads.
• 7:45
  >> Oh, like uh group chats.
• 7:46
  >> Group chats. Group.
• 7:47
  >> Oh, nice. Nice. Um but
• 7:49
  >> the word threads is now
• 7:50
  >> It's true.
• 7:51
  >> The platform.
• 7:52
  >> It's true.
• 7:53
  >> It's like when people do a math
• 7:54
  equation, they have X. I'm like, you
• 7:55
  mean Twitter?
• 7:57
  >> When people are doing math equations
• 7:58
  around you, it's totally mess. I mean,
• 8:00
  and also people are doing different
• 8:01
  kinds of long division these days. And
• 8:02
  that totally throws me off.
• 8:03
  >> Oh yeah. So there's always like a Tik
• 8:05
  Tok where it's like this is how they do
• 8:06
  division in China. And I'm like, what am
• 8:09
  I learning this?
• 8:10
  >> Yeah. Well, sometimes I'm like,
• 8:11
  >> why am I watching this?
• 8:12
  >> Well, also like I worked so hard to get
• 8:14
  that thing. Yeah. I worked so hard to
• 8:16
  get that line thing to work. I was so
• 8:18
  bad at math.
• 8:19
  >> Yeah.
• 8:19
  >> You know what I thought the other day?
• 8:21
  >> Yes.
• 8:22
  >> I thought I don't know why I thought
• 8:23
  this, but this is what I thought. I was
• 8:25
  like, if I if a young poet ever asks me
• 8:28
  for advice, I'm not a poet, but I did
• 8:31
  think if a young poet ever asked me for
• 8:33
  advice, I would say I would say I would
• 8:37
  say read everything and take math class
• 8:40
  seriously.
• 8:41
  >> Take math class serious.
• 8:43
  >> Interesting.
• 8:43
  >> Yeah,
• 8:44
  >> read everything makes sense.
• 8:46
  >> I just feel like math is like
• 8:48
  >> your poetry is mathematical.
• 8:50
  >> Yeah. And like you know mathematics and
• 8:51
  like you know upper level mathematics is
• 8:54
  like so valuable. And I feel like
• 8:56
  >> I think I'm at a stage of life where I'm
• 8:57
  looking back
• 8:59
  >> not necessarily with regret but with
• 9:01
  being like knowing what decisions were
• 9:03
  made based on like intuition and what
• 9:06
  were made on like immaturity. And some
• 9:08
  of that stuff is like you could have
• 9:09
  done math you just thought you didn't
• 9:10
  you were creative enough that you didn't
• 9:12
  need to you know like and stuff like
• 9:13
  that. And those little like so it's a
• 9:16
  little bit being jud judging myself a
• 9:17
  little bit but like little stuff like
• 9:18
  that I'm like oh that was you being
• 9:20
  intuitive that was cool that was you
• 9:23
  being lazy and having a justification
• 9:25
  for or like believing something
• 9:27
  believing an ideal of cool that now I
• 9:29
  don't believe in you know what I mean?
• 9:31
  >> Oh yeah we my high school had a robotics
• 9:33
  program that I forever regret not doing.
• 9:36
  Yeah,
• 9:37
  >> cuz I I think my older sister, not to
• 9:39
  put the blame on her for this, um,
• 9:42
  different people kind of were like, "No,
• 9:45
  that's uh uncool or whatever."
• 9:48
  >> And I wish I had not listened to
• 9:51
  different advice in that space. You know
• 9:52
  what I mean? Yes.
• 9:53
  >> Described as social suicide. I was like,
• 9:55
  now I'm like, "What the [ __ ] Why didn't
• 9:57
  I Why don't I know?"
• 9:59
  >> Well, at that moment, you're like,
• 10:00
  >> "And I love my sister. I love my sister.
• 10:03
  She's a great girl, but she has lied to
• 10:04
  me, you know." Well, I think what she
• 10:07
  was trying earnestly she was trying to
• 10:08
  give genuine earnest advice from her
• 10:11
  social perspective.
• 10:12
  >> Well, that's the thing I think when you
• 10:13
  look at the age is that the advice that
• 10:14
  you are relying on are from people like
• 10:16
  a year older than you or the same age
• 10:18
  and their perspective is like
• 10:19
  >> pass similarly passed from other teens.
• 10:22
  Yes.
• 10:22
  >> And so it's like it is just like the
• 10:24
  idea of something being uncool for those
• 10:26
  teens is just a word of mouth. Uh this
• 10:30
  hat is cool girl wearing a hat leaning
• 10:32
  against the wall. I don't know. Do you
• 10:34
  engage? This might be like actually kind
• 10:36
  of old conversation now, but I might as
• 10:38
  well bring it up.
• 10:39
  >> Do you like engage at all with ideas of
• 10:41
  cringe or what cringe means? Pardon me.
• 10:44
  Or like how
• 10:45
  >> cringe. That was cringe. No. Um, yes and
• 10:47
  no. Yeah, for sure. I mean, some stuff
• 10:48
  is certainly cringy. Yeah. Um, do you
• 10:51
  there's some contra points video where
• 10:52
  she like really laid out like the types
• 10:54
  of cringe and it's like sometimes we do
• 10:56
  it because we
• 10:57
  >> I don't remember the whole argument
• 10:59
  structure but it's like sometimes we do
• 11:01
  it because we see ourselves and we're
• 11:02
  like I wouldn't want to be or I've done
• 11:04
  that or I wouldn't be embarrassed want
• 11:06
  to be embarrassed in that same way but
• 11:07
  yes
• 11:08
  >> yeah I think that
• 11:09
  >> yeah um I engage with it in the I try to
• 11:12
  be kind if I see somebody being cringe
• 11:14
  in a way that I think
• 11:16
  >> that truly like
• 11:18
  >> isn't an issue or or or reflects myself
• 11:21
  or something, but sometimes there's
• 11:22
  stuff that's cringe where it's like,
• 11:24
  >> uh, oh, buddy.
• 11:25
  >> Yeah.
• 11:28
  >> Yeah. I feel like I'm sort of I don't
• 11:31
  know what it really
• 11:33
  means anymore cuz I think it's just like
• 11:35
  it's it's one of those words. It's like
• 11:36
  changing generationally and we sort of
• 11:38
  see that in social med. We see like
• 11:40
  different generations of social media in
• 11:41
  ways that we probably shouldn't, I
• 11:42
  think. And so like there's uh uh I don't
• 11:47
  know it's something I think about
• 11:48
  because I feel like I have such little
• 11:50
  capacity to control myself in terms of
• 11:54
  ideas of cool and I feel like ideas of
• 11:55
  cringe are about ideas of cool
• 11:57
  ultimately you know um and the idea of
• 12:00
  what is is is a cringe thing a
• 12:02
  revelation of authent authenticity that
• 12:06
  is uncool or is it any kind of gesture
• 12:08
  towards authenticity at all? You know
• 12:10
  what I mean? Or like
• 12:12
  uh or you know what is the difference uh
• 12:16
  uh uh pivot points you can make within
• 12:18
  that cuz you don't cringe happens by by
• 12:21
  doing something else. You're trying to
• 12:22
  do something else and then it is applied
• 12:24
  to you. Do you know what I mean? Yeah.
• 12:25
  >> Uh or you're trying to do something to
• 12:27
  avoid that being applied to you and that
• 12:30
  creates a different thing. I don't know.
• 12:31
  I don't really have a point except it's
• 12:32
  something I've been thinking about. I
• 12:33
  don't
• 12:33
  >> No, it's it's interesting. I don't know
• 12:35
  if it's necessarily like antithetical of
• 12:38
  cool or trying to be cool like but I do
• 12:40
  think it can be like I think like the
• 12:42
  office uses the idea of cringe as like a
• 12:44
  social like I think you can use like a
• 12:46
  social teaching tool where it's like
• 12:48
  this behavior is cringe
• 12:50
  >> because of the power dynamic or because
• 12:53
  of the
• 12:54
  >> you're putting someone in an awkward
• 12:55
  position. You know what I mean? It's
• 12:57
  cringe of you to do this because it's
• 12:58
  awkward for somebody else or something.
• 12:59
  You know what I mean? Um, and I don't
• 13:01
  necessarily think that that's like that
• 13:03
  we should accept that, you know what I
• 13:06
  mean? Yeah. Like I think there are times
• 13:08
  where cringe is wrong and bad. But I
• 13:10
  think also cool I think like uh
• 13:14
  >> I think like if you're trying to be cool
• 13:16
  simp like like and like doing some sort
• 13:18
  of fake thing. Yeah.
• 13:20
  >> To be cool. I think that that's
• 13:22
  >> dog [ __ ] You know what I mean? Like
• 13:24
  buying the latest jacket or something.
• 13:27
  >> Dude, don't get me started on the latest
• 13:28
  jacket.
• 13:30
  Are you going to live vicariously
• 13:31
  through your son?
• 13:32
  >> Um, a joke
• 13:33
  >> force him to be cool.
• 13:34
  >> Um, so a few jokes I've been working on
• 13:36
  about that are that so I've part of what
• 13:40
  I've been doing recently is like my
• 13:41
  son's been writing me jokes cuz he wants
• 13:43
  to be a little he wants my act to be
• 13:44
  more relatable
• 13:46
  >> and so he's got some jokes and and so
• 13:47
  but like the jokes he's writing me that
• 13:49
  are more relatable or like you know you
• 13:50
  know how you need you know how you need
• 13:52
  help to burp, you know, like you all
• 13:54
  know that. Um, and one of the things I'm
• 13:56
  I'm doing been trying to do with him is
• 13:57
  like uh uh
• 14:01
  it's like, hey, you all know how like
• 14:03
  you like want to behave for mommy and
• 14:05
  daddy. Like you sort of like want them
• 14:08
  to live vicariously through you. So like
• 14:09
  all your achievements, they're kind of
• 14:10
  theirs, right? Like that idea that
• 14:12
  that's something that he is aware of and
• 14:14
  celebrating is sort of funny to me.
• 14:16
  >> Yeah.
• 14:16
  >> Um or that that's ideas are coming from
• 14:18
  him, not from the parents. Like the the
• 14:20
  kid is like I think my parents don't you
• 14:23
  ever feel like you want your parents to
• 14:25
  live vicariously through you. You know
• 14:26
  like
• 14:26
  >> this is what they would have wanted.
• 14:27
  >> Yeah. And I want to behave. I want to
• 14:29
  behave. I think it's fun to behave. It
• 14:30
  makes their life easier and it's helps.
• 14:32
  I like it. You know that type of stuff.
• 14:36
  >> Are we on the apps? What would an app
• 14:39
  for a baby be?
• 14:40
  >> A nap.
• 14:44
  >> A nap app.
• 14:45
  >> Yeah. It's like Wait, no. That's just a
• 14:47
  rhyme. It's not really doesn't connect.
• 14:49
  It could be like the phone vibrates and
• 14:52
  to rock them enough like it vibrates
• 14:55
  back and forth and it
• 14:56
  >> I actually put on their back and it
• 14:57
  burps them.
• 14:58
  >> I feel like the app that that a baby
• 15:00
  could actually use is like
• 15:06
  an app baby could use. Um
• 15:12
  what app could a baby use? It's actually
• 15:14
  a really
• 15:15
  >> The beer app.
• 15:16
  >> Oh my god. I mean GrubHub.
• 15:18
  >> Yeah. Oh, true.
• 15:19
  >> Yeah, Grubhub. A baby could use that.
• 15:21
  Spotify premium. A baby would love.
• 15:24
  >> Ordering milk on GrubHub. Listening to
• 15:26
  Rafie on Spotify.
• 15:27
  >> Oh my god. Rafie without commercials. A
• 15:29
  baby wants that. Baby hate commercials.
• 15:31
  >> Baby babies don't like commercials.
• 15:33
  >> Do you have Spotify with ads and then
• 15:34
  it's like playing the
• 15:36
  >> No, I like we
• 15:37
  >> call it with friends.
• 15:39
  >> We I I actually do have Spotify premium
• 15:42
  and it's like every day I'm like, am I
• 15:44
  getting off this app or not? What am I
• 15:45
  going to do? You know,
• 15:46
  >> I would think about leaving it because
• 15:47
  they seem evil now.
• 15:48
  >> They seem evil.
• 15:49
  >> I've been putting the spot I've been
• 15:50
  putting the podcast on Spotify. Yeah.
• 15:52
  >> And I think I'm going to stop doing
• 15:53
  that.
• 15:53
  >> I think that's fair.
• 15:54
  >> It's like they're one, they don't pay
• 15:57
  you any money at all. Like YouTube does
• 15:59
  do that through like ads and then
• 16:01
  Spotify doesn't pay you any money. They
• 16:03
  gave a ton of it to Joe Rogan.
• 16:05
  >> Uh and also now they're like getting
• 16:06
  involved in like artificial intelligence
• 16:09
  like weapons systems or something.
• 16:11
  >> It's really disgusting. And it is a
• 16:13
  thing where every day I am doing this
• 16:16
  dance of like what are my conveniences
• 16:19
  that I turn a blind eye to? Do you know
• 16:21
  what I mean? It's like I feel like
• 16:22
  there's so many things like I'm not
• 16:23
  doing that, I'm doing that. And then
• 16:24
  with Spotify I'm like it's such a part
• 16:26
  of my daily life.
• 16:28
  >> What can I can I get off of this? Which
• 16:30
  means I probably should, you know? It's
• 16:31
  like every time you're like every time
• 16:32
  like you rely on the convenience, every
• 16:34
  time the convenience is like it's
• 16:35
  impossible. I can't give it up. And like
• 16:36
  well you should probably that's not
• 16:38
  true. That means they've worked on you
• 16:40
  know. I remember when they were Yes. And
• 16:42
  they were they were the quirked up like
• 16:45
  indie vibes. Uh like Scandinavian Yeah.
• 16:50
  >> Uh countercultural counterpoint to Apple
• 16:53
  Music. Yeah.
• 16:54
  >> And like it was cool. It was like a good
• 16:57
  thing to go to Spotify Music. They're
• 16:58
  like, "Yeah, we're paying them uh the
• 17:00
  streaming work." It's like this whole
• 17:02
  thing. Yeah.
• 17:02
  >> And they just went
• 17:04
  >> It's crazy. I mean,
• 17:06
  >> I wonder Yeah. Yeah, I mean I feel you
• 17:09
  have been so outspoken and articulate
• 17:12
  and I think very precise about uh comedy
• 17:17
  like current comedy and like
• 17:19
  >> you know I think that uh has been
• 17:26
  >> pat myself on the head.
• 17:28
  >> I'd pay let's give you a raspberry
• 17:33
  >> what if the saying was instead of
• 17:34
  patting yourself on the back it was like
• 17:35
  giving yourself a raspberry. Sorry.
• 17:37
  >> I I do like that. That is I I think
• 17:39
  that's good. Pat yourself on the back
• 17:41
  >> cuz that's like fun. Give yourself
• 17:42
  raspberry. There's joy at the other
• 17:44
  >> cuz when someone pats you in the back,
• 17:45
  it's not great. It's like a
• 17:47
  >> feel good.
• 17:47
  >> It's But if somebody gives you
• 17:48
  raspberry, you know.
• 17:50
  >> Well, I was going to say like I feel
• 17:51
  like you you've been so articulate about
• 17:53
  comedy and that now partly cuz I think
• 17:56
  cuz Mark Mary went on a tour and people
• 17:57
  like, "Oh, I want to this guy's the one
• 18:00
  doing it." And it is a big deal that he
• 18:01
  is like
• 18:02
  >> talking to his peers in a way that I
• 18:04
  think is kind of rare for his
• 18:06
  generation, you know. Um, but partly
• 18:08
  just because like they are turning face
• 18:10
  against the Trump regime. I'm just like
• 18:12
  curious like where are you at? Where are
• 18:14
  you feeling like the Joe Rogan's right
• 18:16
  now? You know
• 18:17
  >> where I feel like they're at right now.
• 18:18
  >> Yeah. Cuz I feel like you have a you
• 18:20
  have a good eye on I feel like you are
• 18:21
  addressing it constantly. So I'm sure
• 18:23
  people are coming at you in some ways
• 18:25
  that you mean that you have to uh uh
• 18:28
  speak articulately. Is that fair to say?
• 18:29
  >> I appreciate Yeah. No, I appreciate the
• 18:31
  the the view. I heard you on Exploration
• 18:34
  Live briefly. Uh cuz I got a friend who
• 18:36
  listens and they were like, "Oh, Tim
• 18:38
  mentioned you and I was like, "Oh,
• 18:39
  cool."
• 18:39
  >> Yeah.
• 18:40
  >> Uh so that was neat.
• 18:41
  >> Well, I feel like not many comedians are
• 18:43
  talking about that. Especially not many
• 18:44
  comedians who I consider like um I feel
• 18:48
  a kinship to you in terms of like
• 18:50
  >> bugs.
• 18:51
  >> Yeah.
• 18:52
  >> Worked up white boy who likes bugs and
• 18:54
  birds.
• 18:54
  >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And
• 18:56
  >> you Yeah. You and I are part of sort of
• 18:57
  the Joe Perah extended Millu type.
• 19:01
  >> Yeah. There's like there's
• 19:05
  jokes
• 19:06
  I mean yeah roughly jokes about animals
• 19:09
  >> but also like uh an impulse to be
• 19:13
  absurdist. Uh an impulse to be silly you
• 19:16
  know like not necessarily getting into
• 19:18
  stuff on stage. Yeah.
• 19:20
  >> Um, and I feel like
• 19:24
  and so I think it's really cool that you
• 19:25
  were so outspoken about comedy in that
• 19:27
  way.
• 19:27
  >> I appreciate that. And I think it's cool
• 19:28
  that you're in alliance in this uh
• 19:31
  capacity and that's like I'm like I I I
• 19:33
  because I've heard you well you've I
• 19:35
  think have talked to me a little bit
• 19:37
  about before like through DM or
• 19:38
  something or
• 19:39
  >> Yeah, I see.
• 19:40
  >> But uh and so I do I really appreciate
• 19:42
  that. Um, I think that that right now is
• 19:45
  sort of a moving target and it's sort of
• 19:49
  uh I do think it's actually kind of
• 19:51
  currently crumbling a little bit. Um, I
• 19:53
  don't think it's like necessarily that I
• 19:55
  don't think it's like Marin's thing
• 19:56
  alone that sort of shook them, but I
• 19:57
  think he I think it was like really kind
• 19:59
  of uh there's people could tell that
• 20:02
  that whole scene is like well they had
• 20:05
  found themselves on being counterculture
• 20:07
  and then Trump is the dominant culture
• 20:09
  currently and a lot of people were kind
• 20:11
  of getting sick of what they were saying
• 20:13
  and kind of started to kind of see
• 20:14
  through it and they've only gotten worse
• 20:15
  and worse and worse in this sort of echo
• 20:18
  chamber of poop.
• 20:20
  >> Yeah. Yeah. And so Marin taking his shot
• 20:23
  and Jesselnik and um you know Jay Jordan
• 20:27
  online and you know uh different folks
• 20:30
  taking shots repeatedly. Um I think it
• 20:32
  is sort of crumbling in that audience
• 20:34
  the main thing is that audiences can
• 20:36
  tell.
• 20:37
  >> Yeah.
• 20:37
  >> You know um
• 20:39
  >> and I think um yeah you you asked how if
• 20:44
  people were giving me push back. I was
• 20:45
  kind of making those different ones for
• 20:46
  a while like roundup of
• 20:48
  >> Yeah. It's just a joke type stuff and
• 20:50
  people were really kind of arguing with
• 20:53
  me a lot on those.
• 20:54
  >> My most recent one,
• 20:56
  >> people weren't people kind of get it
• 20:58
  now.
• 20:58
  >> And I kind of think that I um I kind of
• 21:00
  think I got my message to my intended
• 21:04
  audience and they kind of are on board
• 21:06
  and uh agree with me now in this way
• 21:09
  that I kind of didn't expect and I'm
• 21:10
  like, "Oh, that's neat." Um
• 21:12
  >> well, I wonder if part of it is because
• 21:14
  they're like, "No one wants to be
• 21:15
  scolded. No one likes to feel scolded
• 21:17
  and people are pretty quick to judge
• 21:19
  criticism as scolds, you know. Um, and I
• 21:23
  think there has been uh probably a
• 21:26
  perception of comedians
• 21:29
  taking other comedians to task for jokes
• 21:31
  they don't like as like scolding or tone
• 21:34
  policing in some ways, which is like an
• 21:36
  unattract whether or not it's good or
• 21:38
  not is an unattractive look, I think. um
• 21:40
  generally and I think someone being like
• 21:42
  no I'm actually speaking about a system
• 21:44
  and belie I'm sick of a belief system
• 21:46
  and a craft and my thoughts about this
• 21:48
  are based on a craft perspective as a uh
• 21:51
  people will take that more earnestly I
• 21:54
  think or be like oh that's not you're
• 21:55
  not scolding them because you hate them
• 21:57
  even if you do you know like you're
• 21:58
  you're talking about you can back up
• 22:00
  your thing with some kind of belief
• 22:02
  system that I may or may not believe in
• 22:03
  but at least like I know you're in it
• 22:05
  for uh for thoughts I guess right
• 22:08
  >> yeah yeah no I appreciate
• 22:09
  Um what are your thoughts on it? like do
• 22:12
  you see does the idea that it's
• 22:13
  crumbling or like um
• 22:15
  >> I've just been so naive about every part
• 22:17
  of that about the political project the
• 22:19
  past 10 years where I keep on thinking
• 22:20
  it's crumbling and I've like taken every
• 22:22
  opportunity not anymore I feel like but
• 22:24
  I think for a while I was like yes that
• 22:25
  means it's ending yes that means it's
• 22:27
  ending
• 22:28
  >> I guess maybe I'll clarify what I think
• 22:29
  is crumbling is specifically the Austin
• 22:33
  scenes sort of um
• 22:36
  >> uncriticized
• 22:38
  continued sort of like circle jerk
• 22:40
  >> yeah I I think a lot of those guys are
• 22:42
  now feeling the heat and a lot of
• 22:44
  audiences are now aware and they're sort
• 22:45
  of I think those guys are sort of um
• 22:47
  splintering and maybe some of them are
• 22:49
  even possibly going to jump ship. Um I
• 22:51
  don't necessarily think that
• 22:53
  >> the wider political project of like
• 22:55
  fascism I don't think that that's
• 22:56
  necessarily crumbling quite yet. Yeah.
• 22:58
  >> I think it's not going great.
• 23:01
  >> Yeah. Um, but in terms of that type of
• 23:04
  comedy, you know, it just like
• 23:07
  I just think it goes ups and up and down
• 23:09
  all the time and like there's going to
• 23:10
  be b like booms and busts of it all the
• 23:13
  time. And I do think the people who were
• 23:16
  being quote unquote brave are now seen
• 23:19
  as like sort of not being very brave, I
• 23:20
  think. And I think that means a lot to
• 23:22
  fans and people who enjoy comedy where
• 23:24
  it's like I think I caught a clip of
• 23:27
  like Tony Hinchcliffe on um
• 23:32
  on the Legion of Skanks responding to
• 23:34
  stuff that Baron said and it was so like
• 23:38
  lame. It was so like pathetic, you know?
• 23:40
  It was so like
• 23:42
  >> and like stuff like that.
• 23:44
  >> Well, yeah. And you just heard the
• 23:45
  laughs behind it and it's like none of
• 23:47
  you actually you're all afraid to get
• 23:49
  into it. Like you are all actually
• 23:50
  afraid to get into this on these terms
• 23:52
  and like you're using
• 23:54
  caveats that like are ridiculous and no
• 23:57
  one's being and no one's being like,
• 23:59
  "You got me there, but what about this?"
• 24:00
  like no one's being cool about this.
• 24:02
  Everyone's being embitter about this.
• 24:03
  Everyone's being like, everyone's being
• 24:04
  like, "How dare you about this?" And
• 24:06
  that is like, you know, pathetic, I
• 24:09
  think. You know, and I think if you're
• 24:10
  basing your comedy persona and your
• 24:12
  comedy culture on being brave, which is
• 24:15
  what they are doing, you know, I think
• 24:17
  like I'm bravely saying this stuff
• 24:18
  whether you like it or not.
• 24:20
  >> 100 Lenny Bruces in a room jerking each
• 24:22
  other off and going and just saying the
• 24:24
  n word.
• 24:24
  >> And some of those jokes are like about
• 24:26
  being brave. I'm brave enough to say
• 24:27
  this thing that isn't actually funny,
• 24:29
  but no one else would say it. So like I
• 24:31
  remember getting into a bit of like a
• 24:33
  back and forth with my dad once who does
• 24:34
  not have like does not like that stuff
• 24:37
  but he's like you know a boomer who
• 24:39
  tells who likes jokes and so uh uh uh
• 24:43
  we'll sometimes have jokes where I'm
• 24:44
  like what what what was that about you
• 24:46
  know right
• 24:47
  >> um and sometimes he will communicate
• 24:50
  a feeling that he h a feeling that he
• 24:52
  has as a joke but it's not really a joke
• 24:55
  it's a feeling that he has and so I'll
• 24:56
  be like what and one time I was like
• 24:58
  what is that what does that what does
• 25:00
  that joke mean? And he's like, it's just
• 25:02
  a joke. I was like, I that I love jokes.
• 25:04
  I think about jokes all the time. Like,
• 25:05
  what does that joke mean? And he was
• 25:07
  like, I don't know. I was like, I'll
• 25:08
  tell you what I think the joke means. I
• 25:09
  think the joke is that that's not
• 25:10
  something that you should say. And so,
• 25:12
  like, you're touching the wire by saying
• 25:14
  it. And so, I ask you now like, why do
• 25:15
  you think you shouldn't say that?
• 25:17
  >> You know, like why? Because that's why
• 25:19
  that's why that's a joke. If you think
• 25:20
  that's a joke, then you know that the
• 25:22
  joke is that that's something you
• 25:22
  shouldn't say. I want to know that you
• 25:24
  know why you shouldn't say that, you
• 25:25
  know? And I feel like that's a thing
• 25:27
  that And by the way, that joke was him
• 25:30
  like talking to one of his sons about
• 25:32
  marriage earlier than he should have.
• 25:34
  You know, it was just like little
• 25:38
  him and his girlfriend will get married
• 25:40
  if they want to. You joking about it.
• 25:41
  It's not like so it wasn't anything like
• 25:43
  political, but it was but that that was
• 25:45
  the thing of like you said you said
• 25:47
  something forward about them maybe
• 25:49
  getting married. They got offended
• 25:50
  because you know that's a thing you
• 25:52
  shouldn't be saying, you know. Um
• 25:54
  >> just a Yeah. And that's been a back and
• 25:56
  forth I had with my dad about that type
• 25:57
  of stuff. But I do feel like that
• 25:58
  political project there's so like
• 26:00
  >> I just wish
• 26:02
  more of it
• 26:04
  would just accept that that's what
• 26:07
  they're doing. You know like
• 26:09
  >> you know what I mean cuz I I think I
• 26:10
  sometimes think they take the brave part
• 26:12
  of it but then
• 26:14
  >> they're like but if you think that stuff
• 26:16
  shouldn't be said I think you think that
• 26:17
  stuff should be said. So like why is
• 26:19
  that so how is that how is how are you
• 26:22
  saying that how is you saying that be a
• 26:24
  joke? Do you know what I mean?
• 26:25
  >> Yeah. I've been thinking a lot about the
• 26:26
  this is just a joke defense and I've
• 26:28
  been kind of kind of mentally
• 26:30
  visualizing it quite literally as sort
• 26:32
  of a giant like wall like literally a
• 26:36
  sort of defense. Yeah. and um that
• 26:39
  they've really placed a lot on this wall
• 26:43
  and it's been actually like a really
• 26:45
  pretty sturdy wall that like
• 26:48
  >> hasn't been um taken down. Um, and so
• 26:52
  that's like a lot of my [ __ ] about the
• 26:55
  it's just a joke stuff have been like
• 26:57
  very specifically targeted at that big
• 27:00
  main defense because I think my thoughts
• 27:01
  have been like um if I can get enough
• 27:04
  people to push to blow up uh spaces in
• 27:09
  that wall to crawl to push through it'll
• 27:12
  you know sort of mentally imagining a uh
• 27:15
  a battlefield. But I guess I don't
• 27:17
  necessarily want to necessarily conceive
• 27:18
  of all this in terms of like
• 27:20
  >> battle battle. I've been trying to um
• 27:23
  >> I've been trying to enter a new era of
• 27:24
  love and light.
• 27:25
  >> Okay.
• 27:26
  >> A little bit.
• 27:27
  >> Okay. All right.
• 27:27
  >> Where I'm trying to like um I think in
• 27:30
  the irony video I had described a lot of
• 27:32
  those guys as like fundamentally evil.
• 27:34
  And I'm um
• 27:36
  >> I'm pulling back from that perspective.
• 27:38
  Yeah.
• 27:38
  >> Because I don't necessarily think that
• 27:40
  they are.
• 27:41
  >> Yeah. um deliber like I don't think evil
• 27:44
  is something that you can implicitly be
• 27:47
  in your core as much as it's like an
• 27:49
  emergent social property that we assign
• 27:52
  to things that we think
• 27:54
  >> uh are bad from a certain perspective.
• 27:57
  Yes. Um,
• 27:59
  but like even the idea of like murder,
• 28:01
  people are like, "No, that's good when
• 28:02
  XYZ." Yeah.
• 28:04
  >> And it's like, well, people like, "No,
• 28:05
  it's," you know, so it's always So I
• 28:07
  guess my thought is like I don't think
• 28:08
  those guys necessarily think that
• 28:10
  they're doing bad as much as
• 28:12
  >> I think they think they're bringing joy.
• 28:14
  >> Yeah.
• 28:14
  >> You know, I think they think they're
• 28:15
  bringing joy.
• 28:16
  >> Yeah. I think that they they think Yeah.
• 28:17
  So I I guess like I've been trying to
• 28:18
  figure out how to from an empathetic
• 28:21
  perspective be like okay those guys what
• 28:25
  they think they're doing is defending
• 28:27
  free speech. Um which they have like
• 28:30
  they you know what I mean? Um and I'm
• 28:32
  like okay.
• 28:33
  >> So how do I So what I want to say to
• 28:35
  them is like I hear you and I actually
• 28:37
  don't want to censor you. Like I don't
• 28:38
  want you to
• 28:39
  >> Yeah.
• 28:41
  >> I want you to know what your speech
• 28:42
  means.
• 28:43
  >> Yeah.
• 28:44
  >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
• 28:45
  >> Yeah. I I I I totally get that. I like,
• 28:48
  you know, I think one thing that
• 28:50
  happened for me in terms of like it's
• 28:52
  just a joke. I feel like I used to do a
• 28:55
  lot more characters who were really bad
• 28:58
  guys in certain ways that I found fun to
• 29:01
  perform, you know? Um like I
• 29:05
  I was doing like a men's rights
• 29:06
  character for a long time. And honestly,
• 29:08
  this a lot of this was pre 2016. Um and
• 29:12
  then I had to So I had a men's rights
• 29:15
  character. I had a lot of like sort of
• 29:17
  like toxic nice guys or like toxic
• 29:19
  liberals and stuff like that, you know.
• 29:21
  Um, and
• 29:23
  >> one thing or like or like I I've
• 29:27
  >> I've always like there's a character I
• 29:29
  would do who's like a high school
• 29:29
  student, Hampton, who had I did a
• 29:32
  podcast as him for a long time, but like
• 29:34
  a big joke that he did that was like the
• 29:37
  end of the I do a character that was
• 29:38
  sort of like the the outline was like I
• 29:40
  am a femist because I have a mom, but
• 29:42
  some girls at the school are taking it
• 29:44
  too far, you know?
• 29:45
  >> Yeah. Yeah.
• 29:45
  >> Um,
• 29:46
  >> which is like that character I think is
• 29:48
  funny and that that perspective I feel
• 29:50
  like I understand. Um, so I feel like I
• 29:53
  started in 2016, I started veering away
• 29:56
  from that because I like it quickly
• 29:59
  realized I was like I I think actually
• 30:00
  the joke here is that I'm expecting the
• 30:02
  audiences to know that I wouldn't be
• 30:03
  like this,
• 30:04
  >> you know, like I my assumption is that
• 30:06
  they know I'm doing this um to make fun
• 30:10
  of these people and I have the authority
• 30:12
  to make fun of these people because I so
• 30:15
  understand that why what they're doing
• 30:17
  is wrong and I'm not that and the
• 30:19
  audience knows that about me. I think
• 30:22
  2016 happened. I was like, the audience
• 30:23
  does not know that about me. Like they
• 30:25
  have actually no reason to know that
• 30:26
  about me except for signifiers that are
• 30:28
  like,
• 30:29
  >> you know,
• 30:30
  >> tone of voice in my
• 30:31
  >> tone of quirked up white guy, you know,
• 30:33
  like liberal arts school coded like, you
• 30:35
  know, um, uh, that type of thing.
• 30:38
  >> That counts though.
• 30:39
  >> Um, maybe, you know, like I think that
• 30:41
  was, you know, taking improv all that
• 30:44
  stuff like voted for Obama. Was it, you
• 30:46
  know, campaign for Obama in college?
• 30:48
  like that like that stuff I was like
• 30:49
  okay well that means that you know that
• 30:52
  I'm working from a basis of
• 30:55
  you know of being correct I suppose and
• 30:58
  I think 2016 happened and honestly like
• 31:01
  me too I just heard more stories I
• 31:03
  hadn't heard before from people who are
• 31:04
  close to me I was like oh there's no the
• 31:08
  idea that I'm assuming people know that
• 31:10
  my character is an appropriate
• 31:12
  counterpoint to the things that these
• 31:13
  characters I'm playing are saying like
• 31:15
  I'm I'm sure some people are like oh my
• 31:17
  counterpoint to some of the awful stuff
• 31:18
  I'm saying is so clear
• 31:20
  >> that there's not clarity there and that
• 31:21
  you are creating reality on stage every
• 31:22
  moment and you have to be very precise
• 31:24
  about like what is the counterpoint and
• 31:25
  the counterpoint can't be assumed or
• 31:27
  some some stuff you can do like there's
• 31:29
  some jokes you can make based off
• 31:30
  obviously like
• 31:31
  >> your tone like I've been doing a joke
• 31:33
  where I'm like
• 31:34
  >> oh I'm if you don't know me I'm if
• 31:37
  Stuart Little was gorgeous you know
• 31:39
  which I don't really get but sort of
• 31:41
  works you know what I mean and like that
• 31:43
  that stuff I think is all fine but if
• 31:45
  I'm going to make a big swing of like
• 31:47
  aggression of of like negativity or of
• 31:50
  getting into it.
• 31:51
  >> I really want to make sure that it's
• 31:53
  clear that I am not banking on some
• 31:55
  assumption that but I'm cool, you know.
• 31:59
  >> I know. Well, uh Martin Urbana did you
• 32:01
  see his special?
• 32:02
  >> I haven't seen a special actually.
• 32:03
  >> Great. One of my favorite one of my
• 32:04
  favorites at 2024 and um it's it's
• 32:07
  phenomenal. But I was talking to him and
• 32:09
  he's like yeah like if he doesn't like
• 32:11
  really ham up the like
• 32:14
  then like people think he's serious.
• 32:16
  Well, I've talked to him about this. I
• 32:17
  feel like I say this to every time I see
• 32:18
  him perform. I feel like every time I
• 32:19
  see him perform, I'm such a fan of his.
• 32:21
  I think every time I I'm on a show with
• 32:23
  him, I we're like the show's done and I
• 32:25
  just go, "How do you do it?"
• 32:27
  >> I'm like, "How did you do that?" Like,
• 32:28
  I'm I'm blown away that you you make it
• 32:32
  work like that. It is so clear.
• 32:34
  >> I've seen it not land.
• 32:35
  >> I have seen it not land, too. But
• 32:37
  >> yeah,
• 32:38
  >> but more often more often than not, I've
• 32:40
  seen maybe just the shows that we're
• 32:41
  booked on, but like more often than not,
• 32:43
  I've seen it just be like totally
• 32:45
  understood and legible. And I'm like,
• 32:46
  how do you
• 32:48
  >> how it's it's it's such a precise
• 32:50
  >> it's Yeah. It's like it's uh reputation
• 32:54
  signifiers as well as like uh making it
• 32:58
  clear that you're kid. Like if you
• 32:59
  really like hyperbolically ham up the
• 33:01
  like
• 33:03
  then it's like okay well now we're
• 33:04
  obviously you don't have that genuine
• 33:06
  opinion as a ironic thingamajig you're
• 33:10
  doing. Also let's make some
• 33:11
  [ __ ] bookmarks while we're
• 33:13
  doing this. Uh Tim makes bookmarks. I
• 33:16
  actually have one. I'll retape it. So
• 33:17
  I'm going to
• 33:20
  >> that says bookmark and then the L is
• 33:22
  crossed out.
• 33:24
  >> Yeah. So I do these
• 33:26
  >> made a bunch of these. I got I got this
• 33:28
  at your um
• 33:29
  >> Well, hold on. You you said first and
• 33:31
  then
• 33:31
  >> Where did you get that? I don't know.
• 33:32
  Actually,
• 33:33
  >> at your live uh at your special release.
• 33:35
  >> Oh, my special release party. Yes. At
• 33:38
  Oh, right.
• 33:39
  >> Um Yeah. Cool. Thank you for doing cuz
• 33:41
  you did the animal joke part of it
• 33:43
  before, right?
• 33:43
  >> Oh, that's right.
• 33:44
  >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was uh I was at both
• 33:47
  the special taping as well as the
• 33:48
  special release and I was there going
• 33:50
  I'm hearing myself laugh while I'm
• 33:52
  laughing at the same joke. Can I appreci
• 33:54
  can I say I appreciate that so much and
• 33:56
  that putting out a special I'm really
• 33:58
  proud of it but like you I I and maybe
• 34:01
  other people are better about this. I
• 34:02
  feel like you can't I can't work really
• 34:05
  hard on something without the assumption
• 34:07
  that it's going to change my life
• 34:08
  forever. Do you know what I mean? Where
• 34:10
  it's like this is going to and somehow
• 34:12
  change my life in big ways. I mean, I
• 34:14
  guess every time you put out something,
• 34:15
  it does change your life, but like I
• 34:17
  appreciate that you cuz it it's hard to
• 34:20
  I feel like you I put it out and then
• 34:22
  it's gone, you know, and like you sort
• 34:24
  of forget and you talk and I talk about
• 34:26
  it. I want people to listen to it, but
• 34:27
  it's like I
• 34:28
  >> uh I'm really proud of it. I think it's
• 34:30
  really good,
• 34:31
  >> but I really appreciate hearing that
• 34:33
  people like it because you sort of for
• 34:35
  your own protection, you just put it
• 34:36
  behind you. We were like, "It's gone. No
• 34:38
  one's ever going to see it again." You
• 34:39
  know, unless I do something big after
• 34:41
  this that's going to like point back to
• 34:43
  it.
• 34:43
  >> That's how I feel about like uh I've
• 34:45
  made a bunch of I made like You ever see
• 34:46
  bedet masterass?
• 34:48
  >> The bedet master class?
• 34:49
  >> I think a video I made in like 2020.
• 34:51
  >> No, I didn't. Or it's like um uh just
• 34:53
  like creating this backlog of [ __ ] that
• 34:56
  like, you know, didn't pop off or
• 34:58
  whatever. But I am like um like uh the
• 35:03
  like one of the things will hopefully
• 35:05
  hit some sort of thing and then people
• 35:06
  will go oh
• 35:08
  >> yeah this psychotic video of Benny was
• 35:11
  showing his butt on
• 35:13
  >> well yeah
• 35:16
  >> uh a joke I've been doing recently is um
• 35:19
  >> sorry
• 35:19
  >> oh yeah I get first let me well first of
• 35:22
  all do you want what so here's okay
• 35:24
  bookmarks let's talk about bookmarks
• 35:25
  real quick um So, I'm going talk about
• 35:28
  bookmarks real quick.
• 35:31
  So, I used to do this have this project
• 35:33
  where I would like illustrate like one
• 35:35
  panel comics or like absurd sayings on
• 35:38
  cards sort of like of this side and I'll
• 35:40
  just leave them around. I used to give
• 35:41
  them to strangers in New York and then
• 35:42
  post about them on Tumblr
• 35:44
  >> and I started just leaving them random
• 35:46
  places like in bookmarks on benches on
• 35:48
  uh uh tables and stuff like that
• 35:50
  >> like in books.
• 35:51
  >> Yeah, in books. Um uh and I basically
• 35:54
  stopped doing that in 2016 cuz the
• 35:56
  public spheres felt different. But I
• 35:59
  kept like had this practice of still
• 36:00
  like wanting to make sort of tactile art
• 36:03
  that I would start selling at like you
• 36:06
  know little art fairs and stuff. And I
• 36:07
  just found
• 36:08
  >> show merch.
• 36:09
  >> Yeah. Show merch and stuff. And I just
• 36:11
  found that like a card like this, no one
• 36:14
  knows what to do with it. It's sort of
• 36:15
  like a nice art piece. But unless like
• 36:16
  I'm going to they're going to frame it
• 36:18
  or like put it on a fridge, there's not
• 36:19
  much you can do with it. But with a if I
• 36:21
  just like would break it in half, it was
• 36:24
  a bookmark. And then it has utility. So
• 36:26
  it's like art that you could actually
• 36:27
  use. Also, I I mean, if you're like me,
• 36:30
  you're like reading three books half at
• 36:33
  the same time. So it's like you I do
• 36:35
  need multiple. It's fun to have
• 36:36
  bookmarks, you know? Um and I do use
• 36:38
  them for different stuff. And then you
• 36:39
  pick a book back up that you haven't had
• 36:40
  for years. You're like, "Oh my god, I
• 36:42
  forgot this cool thing in it."
• 36:43
  >> It's also Yeah. And there's also this
• 36:44
  thing of like I know where I got it. I
• 36:46
  have a emotional attachment to it. I'm
• 36:49
  not going to like I get some of my books
• 36:50
  I think like the bookmark is straight up
• 36:52
  like a sticky note or like piece of
• 36:55
  mail. Yeah. Or like some [ __ ] I got at a
• 36:58
  museum that I'm like I don't remember
• 36:59
  going to that museum. You know what I
• 37:01
  mean?
• 37:01
  >> Yeah.
• 37:01
  >> But yeah, but I'd love to I'd love to
• 37:04
  let's let's [ __ ] do it.
• 37:05
  >> So, I'm going to give you a piece of
• 37:07
  nice paper that I usually use for these.
• 37:09
  >> And I do I do a few different ways.
• 37:11
  Sometimes I'll just like make art on the
• 37:13
  big
• 37:14
  >> on the big uh paper. You rip it in
• 37:16
  >> and then I rip it or I'll just rip it
• 37:18
  off in advance and then try to do big
• 37:20
  art. So,
• 37:20
  >> I'm going to do a double. I'm going to
• 37:21
  rip it off in advance.
• 37:22
  >> Perfect. Do it. Well, what may I
• 37:24
  recommend? Fold first.
• 37:26
  >> Get a little crease going.
• 37:26
  >> Yeah. Get that crease going. Get that
• 37:28
  crease. Go at halfway and then we'll And
• 37:31
  then we'll just start making this [ __ ]
• 37:33
  >> Kill Tony would never do some [ __ ] like
• 37:34
  this, dude.
• 37:35
  >> They're scared of being sensitive.
• 37:37
  >> I do. I do earnestly think so. Um, but
• 37:39
  that's not to I mean actually I'll again
• 37:42
  get I do think that um
• 37:46
  I think that's like earnestly the issue
• 37:49
  with a lot of those guys
• 37:50
  >> scared being sensitive.
• 37:51
  >> Like I think that they Yeah. Like I like
• 37:53
  I think that there's like
• 37:55
  >> just to psychoanalyze them briefly. I
• 37:57
  think there's this like real fear of
• 37:58
  like this I think there's like a almost
• 38:00
  playground fear of like uh not wanting
• 38:02
  to be called like gay.
• 38:05
  >> Yeah.
• 38:05
  >> Uh that you know what I mean?
• 38:07
  >> Yeah. I mean that like
• 38:08
  >> it's upsetting,
• 38:09
  >> you know, that was um
• 38:11
  >> you're such a you're a great artist.
• 38:13
  Don't to make you self-conscious
• 38:14
  immediately, but I it's
• 38:15
  >> maybe it's just the pens, baby.
• 38:17
  >> Honestly, it's the pens.
• 38:21
  >> Just like let the brush guide you. I'm
• 38:23
  like a pretty I'm like okay at my my
• 38:26
  version of doing art, but if you asked
• 38:28
  me to make something specific, I could
• 38:29
  not. Um
• 38:31
  >> Oh, okay. These pens are good as [ __ ]
• 38:33
  >> Yeah. You see what I mean, man?
• 38:35
  >> Holy [ __ ] I'm a big fan of David
• 38:37
  Shriggley, who I feel does a really good
• 38:39
  job of doing just sort of uh
• 38:41
  >> Do you have orange?
• 38:42
  >> Uh do I have orange?
• 38:43
  >> Oh, you just did orange.
• 38:44
  >> Yeah, look. Oh, yeah. This is uh Yeah,
• 38:46
  this is the one. Um
• 38:47
  >> Okay.
• 38:48
  >> He's really good doing sort of like
• 38:49
  childish or like strokes or like
• 38:51
  outlines of stuff.
• 38:52
  >> Is that one?
• 38:53
  >> I had a bunch of stuff.
• 38:54
  >> How is this that one? That's orange. Is
• 38:56
  that the same color?
• 38:57
  >> I think so. The caps don't always align.
• 39:00
  >> That's Well, yeah, but the bottom is
• 39:01
  also the pink thing.
• 39:02
  >> Give it a try. Uh, did I
• 39:04
  >> doesn't make a damn like a sense. Maybe
• 39:05
  it's kind of like a coral.
• 39:07
  >> This is probably more of a coral
• 39:09
  actually.
• 39:09
  >> Okay. Okay. Okay. That works for me.
• 39:10
  Sorry.
• 39:11
  >> What was I saying? David Shriggley. Um,
• 39:13
  Paul Clay. I really like all those
• 39:15
  artists that sort of are able to use who
• 39:19
  are very talented but able to sort of
• 39:21
  create a piece using simple forms and
• 39:24
  like a scraggly style, you know. Um, I
• 39:28
  find
• 39:28
  >> I'm not familiar.
• 39:29
  >> Oh. Of uh, you know, you don't know the
• 39:31
  David Triggly.
• 39:31
  >> No. You should look up David Shriggley.
• 39:34
  He's great. He's sort of like the name.
• 39:36
  >> He's a um a bit He's become a bit um uh
• 39:40
  museum gift shop uh coded. Um but his
• 39:46
  work is awesome. I love I love David.
• 39:48
  Look up my favorite for anyone
• 39:50
  listening. My favorite David Shriggley
• 39:52
  piece. It's called Refrigerator. Look it
• 39:54
  up.
• 39:55
  >> I will I'll look that up.
• 39:56
  >> Hell yeah.
• 39:57
  >> Um I forget what else we were saying,
• 39:58
  but whatever. We talk about Kil Tony not
• 40:01
  being sensitive. You got to be a sweet
• 40:04
  little sensitive boys.
• 40:05
  >> Yeah. What's wrong with being sensitive?
• 40:07
  >> Whatever. Whatever happened to a nice
• 40:08
  little kiss?
• 40:09
  >> Oh yeah. Kissing is kissing is fun. I
• 40:12
  know, but I um like just this idea of
• 40:15
  like um
• 40:17
  bullied into it or like like I like I'm
• 40:21
  like I'm wondering like
• 40:23
  uh part of part of why I'm thinking
• 40:25
  about this and it's not necessarily to
• 40:27
  like dunk on them for this kind of
• 40:29
  thing. It's more like um from the
• 40:31
  empathetic angle.
• 40:32
  >> Yeah. um they're not given space to be
• 40:36
  sensitive or not necessarily sensitive,
• 40:39
  but like um
• 40:42
  yeah, I mean that's a good catchall for
• 40:44
  kind of the idea of what we're going
• 40:45
  for. But I think that um
• 40:48
  what's my point here? Uh like like like
• 40:50
  how to the the point the point of this
• 40:52
  idea is like how do we help them? How do
• 40:54
  we get them out of that? How do we get
• 40:56
  them to stop being shitty? Um um I
• 41:01
  >> and I think it's given them space in
• 41:02
  some way to be
• 41:04
  >> I don't know.
• 41:04
  >> I guess I don't think about stuff in
• 41:06
  terms how do I stop them from being that
• 41:08
  way because I just don't think it's
• 41:09
  possible, you know? Like I think and and
• 41:12
  I'm not saying that in a critical way.
• 41:14
  I'm saying that just like I just don't
• 41:15
  think people change
• 41:18
  their how do I want to say this?
• 41:22
  Especially comedians, but I think
• 41:23
  there's like all people in a lot of
• 41:25
  different ways. you I'll speak for
• 41:28
  comedians. Uh I I think the reason you
• 41:30
  get into it is like you're chasing a
• 41:31
  version of yourself and chasing like a
• 41:33
  way of being um and chasing a way of
• 41:37
  being validated and also a way of
• 41:38
  communicating and like for whatever
• 41:42
  people think about clown I think it's a
• 41:44
  really helpful way of thinking about
• 41:45
  comedy in general is like you are
• 41:46
  finding the version of yourself who can
• 41:48
  thrive on stage. you vi finding the
• 41:50
  version of yourself who can communicate
• 41:51
  the stuff you want to communicate on
• 41:52
  stage and like a lot of comedians can
• 41:54
  find a very flexible version of
• 41:56
  themselves you know or like find a
• 41:58
  limited version of themselves and
• 41:59
  they're able to break through you know
• 42:01
  um but I think at least if I can like
• 42:06
  think about that type of comedy
• 42:09
  they're not going to get that way unless
• 42:11
  by somebody
• 42:13
  who doesn't already like their comedy
• 42:15
  telling them about it you know what I
• 42:16
  mean it's like you on. You need to feel
• 42:20
  affirmed to grow, I think,
• 42:21
  >> right?
• 42:22
  >> Or broken to grow. I don't know. I'm
• 42:24
  assuming right now. I've never grown.
• 42:25
  I've never grown, so
• 42:28
  >> I don't know what I'm saying. I I guess
• 42:29
  I don't really think about how I can
• 42:30
  change them. Uh cuz I don't
• 42:32
  >> what Well, agreeing with you briefly.
• 42:35
  Well, sorry. Why? Why? Why not? And then
• 42:37
  I'll come back on the affirm idea. I
• 42:39
  guess I just think that like it's so
• 42:42
  when I started doing standup, I was
• 42:44
  doing it at open mics that like had such
• 42:47
  different types of comedians and I felt
• 42:49
  like they were so not as it took me like
• 42:51
  2 years to find standups who were the
• 42:55
  label I guess is is alternative. I
• 42:57
  didn't really like that label or do I do
• 42:59
  I continue to like that label but I
• 43:00
  recognize its value. But I think I was
• 43:01
  doing a lot of open mics with a lot of
• 43:03
  like Manhattan
• 43:05
  standups,
• 43:06
  >> you know, trying to get club comics, you
• 43:08
  know, like.
• 43:09
  >> And I really
• 43:13
  struggled with that. I also really
• 43:15
  valued that. I feel like I made a bunch
• 43:16
  of friends who I wouldn't have made
• 43:17
  before. I also feel like I saw a lot of
• 43:19
  comedy that I would have written off
• 43:21
  before. I saw people get better at that
• 43:22
  and that made me respect it more, you
• 43:24
  know. And I saw someone be like say some
• 43:26
  of the worst I've ever heard in my life
• 43:27
  and then a few years later being like,
• 43:29
  you know, where you got to with the
• 43:32
  worst I heard in my life is actually an
• 43:34
  interesting and comedy idea, you know,
• 43:36
  like. And so watching that go through I
• 43:38
  feel like made me feel very much like I
• 43:40
  can't like my taste I cannot apply to
• 43:44
  others in this craft as I am going
• 43:46
  through it with them at that level. You
• 43:48
  know, I think once you once it's out in
• 43:50
  the world, then you're a piece of then
• 43:52
  you're it's then then then we're
• 43:54
  reacting to each other, you know. I
• 43:56
  think
• 43:56
  >> I think it's at least at that stage like
• 43:58
  everyone was new, everyone's trying
• 43:59
  stuff. And so I think I did take in
• 44:02
  there a little like something that I
• 44:06
  have noticed I think in more alternative
• 44:09
  comedians today. Maybe not today. I
• 44:11
  don't know. Maybe I'm speaking from like
• 44:12
  two years ago really where it's like
• 44:15
  that there is
• 44:17
  that there is nothing in that craft.
• 44:19
  There was like nothing in the club
• 44:20
  comic. There is nothing in that sort of
• 44:22
  persona. And I think that's a very hard
• 44:24
  persona and that's a very hard style of
• 44:26
  comedy to do. And I think a lot of
• 44:30
  um
• 44:32
  and so my I feel like my perspective on
• 44:34
  it is based on all these other taste
• 44:35
  assumptions that I don't feel like just
• 44:38
  I don't feel like I have authority to
• 44:39
  tell someone like you could do something
• 44:40
  better or something different cuz in my
• 44:42
  mind I you can either work through it or
• 44:44
  change and it won't be through my
• 44:47
  efforts unless
• 44:48
  >> you know unless for whatever reason what
• 44:51
  I do on stage is interesting to you cuz
• 44:53
  sometimes what other people do on stage
• 44:54
  is interesting to me. I'm like oh I want
• 44:56
  to try something like that. bring an
• 44:57
  alternative.
• 44:58
  >> Yeah. You know, it's like but I don't
• 45:00
  feel as like a thinker or speaker or
• 45:04
  like an apologist. I suppose like I I I
• 45:07
  feel I'm I don't feel like I'm a good
• 45:11
  I can't I don't know entering into
• 45:12
  argument or entering into debates. I
• 45:14
  always feel like I break down in that
• 45:15
  way. Oh.
• 45:16
  >> You know what I mean? Which is why I
• 45:17
  really respect people who have like very
• 45:19
  crisp and strong I think generous ideas
• 45:22
  in that space cuz I feel like I crumble
• 45:23
  kind of quickly. You know,
• 45:24
  >> I feel I see what you're saying. I guess
• 45:27
  I feel a little bit of the opposite
• 45:28
  where I feel um sort of like uh
• 45:33
  extremely sort of like I kind of have to
• 45:35
  pull it back a little bit.
• 45:37
  >> I feel kind of like
• 45:39
  >> uh very much so like
• 45:41
  >> you know what I mean?
• 45:42
  >> Yeah. Yeah.
• 45:43
  >> This [ __ ] sucks.
• 45:45
  >> Yeah. Yeah. I know what you mean.
• 45:46
  >> But but I guess um I guess that's not
• 45:47
  necessarily so this is an interesting
• 45:48
  angle of the taste idea. Um because in
• 45:50
  my mind it's not necessarily that I'm
• 45:52
  applying my taste and want them to be
• 45:55
  more like alt or something as much as
• 45:58
  >> um and I also understand that idea of
• 46:00
  like people working through stuff
• 46:02
  sometimes it can be shitty at first and
• 46:03
  they have to kind of get to the correct
• 46:04
  angle or
• 46:06
  >> they have to cook it um as much as um
• 46:10
  >> like I don't have an issue with down the
• 46:12
  middle Manhattan club comedy. Yeah. Um,
• 46:14
  but I have an issue with uh regressive
• 46:18
  uh ideas and like um comedy that's
• 46:21
  genuinely shitty and like is
• 46:24
  >> uh transphobic or xenophobic or whatever
• 46:26
  in these ways where it's like then
• 46:28
  they're aligned with politicians and
• 46:30
  they mean it and it has real political
• 46:32
  implication. Yeah. Um, so like I but I
• 46:35
  totally agree with you where I'm like,
• 46:36
  you know, if somebody like if somebody
• 46:37
  is is doing a joke where they're like,
• 46:39
  "All right, I've got this angle on some
• 46:41
  sort of taboo subject and I got to work
• 46:43
  it through and I'll get there." Yeah, I
• 46:45
  can see it. You know what I mean? Um but
• 46:47
  I guess like um I do so that's why I'm
• 46:49
  like I think it is important for for for
• 46:52
  from my perspective not necessarily for
• 46:55
  me personally but as a collective idea
• 46:58
  structure how do we get those guys to
• 47:00
  realize that uh being so anti-immigrant
• 47:06
  leads to like ICE raids. You know what I
• 47:08
  mean?
• 47:09
  >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean that's you know
• 47:11
  >> Yeah. I mean that it seems like some of
• 47:13
  them are maybe having to encounter that
• 47:15
  now. I don't know.
• 47:17
  >> I don't know. I always feel like sort of
• 47:19
  the idea of what I was saying before
• 47:21
  about like there's an assumption that
• 47:22
  they're joy bringers or assumption
• 47:23
  you're bringing joy that what you're
• 47:25
  doing is good. Sometimes I feel like
• 47:26
  just in terms of talking craft like you
• 47:29
  know when you said that thing I didn't I
• 47:30
  stopped trusting you on stage like oh
• 47:32
  you don't agree with me.
• 47:34
  >> Well uh well yeah I don't agree with you
• 47:36
  but it also seemed like you didn't
• 47:38
  understand that why that someone
• 47:39
  wouldn't agree with you. Do you know
• 47:40
  what I mean? It's like and that makes me
• 47:42
  not trust you because I think that's
• 47:43
  crazy. It's like you're saying something
• 47:46
  controversial and you're acting like
• 47:47
  it's
• 47:49
  just like a taboo a taboo truth that no
• 47:51
  one wants to account for. That's like
• 47:53
  >> that doesn't make sense to me. And then
• 47:55
  this is okay. And this is like I'll say
• 47:57
  this and this is a
• 47:59
  >> just about to go off.
• 48:00
  >> Well, this is like uh
• 48:02
  >> I think this is maybe reveals more about
• 48:05
  myself than I like, you know, or I don't
• 48:08
  know. Whatever. or take this out if you
• 48:09
  don't like it or if I if I
• 48:12
  >> I always got like turned off when I saw
• 48:15
  comedians um of like any gender make fun
• 48:19
  of their appearance um in a way where I
• 48:22
  was like
• 48:24
  that felt a little bit like sometimes
• 48:26
  I'd see comedians like make fun of their
• 48:28
  appearance and in the back of my head
• 48:29
  I'm like but I think you're good-looking
• 48:31
  >> you know and it's like so you're you're
• 48:33
  I think you are good-looking and you're
• 48:35
  talking about your appearance like
• 48:36
  you're not good-looking and that is and
• 48:40
  that's like fine, but for a second I'm
• 48:42
  like, "Oh, it's that it's that moment."
• 48:43
  It's like it's that moment when you're
• 48:44
  on stage like, "Oh, now I'm away from
• 48:47
  the audience and I are the comedian and
• 48:49
  I are on different wavelengths, you
• 48:51
  know."
• 48:51
  >> Yeah.
• 48:52
  >> They're doing something else. And like
• 48:53
  it's obviously that's like, you know,
• 48:56
  they're not here comedians aren't here
• 48:57
  to look good for me in audience, you
• 48:58
  know, but it's that little thing where
• 49:00
  like, oh, but that's not what I and I
• 49:01
  don't really I don't want to think about
• 49:02
  how good-look you are. I want to think
• 49:04
  about about comedy, you know? Um, and so
• 49:06
  that I always think about that little
• 49:08
  thing cuz you know I come up all these
• 49:09
  little rules for myself when I started
• 49:11
  cuz of things I experienced as an
• 49:12
  audience member like oh I don't like
• 49:14
  when they did that so I don't want to do
• 49:15
  that you know as audience member I don't
• 49:16
  like that so I don't want to do that. Um
• 49:18
  that's why I go on stage and say I'm
• 49:19
  gorgeous.
• 49:20
  >> So if you're already thinking that then
• 49:22
  it's affirmed
• 49:23
  >> then you're affirmed. Um but you know
• 49:26
  what I mean is and I think there's like
• 49:27
  micro versions of that in different
• 49:28
  styles where it's like you you said
• 49:31
  something that I don't agree with.
• 49:35
  Do you know that? You know, that's why
• 49:36
  some of the most amazing comedians are
• 49:38
  saying stuff you don't agree with
• 49:39
  >> and they're like, "But let me get you
• 49:40
  there." And it's because, you know,
• 49:42
  you're playing with fire. And I feel
• 49:43
  like sometimes comedians like, "You
• 49:45
  don't think you're playing with fire."
• 49:46
  And I I think it's because you don't
• 49:47
  think it's fire, you know, and like
• 49:49
  that's bad, you know, that's bad
• 49:51
  politically, but it's also like bad
• 49:53
  communication and bad arc, you know, um,
• 49:56
  in my opinion.
• 49:57
  >> No, that's a great point. I love that
• 49:58
  fire metaphor. Those guys are playing
• 50:00
  with so much fire and they literally
• 50:01
  think it's like inert earth. Yeah. Yeah.
• 50:03
  They think they're like, "No, it's just
• 50:04
  a joke." And it's like literally on
• 50:06
  fire.
• 50:06
  >> Yeah.
• 50:07
  >> Yeah. And you're like,
• 50:07
  >> "That's a great way to look.
• 50:09
  >> We have a fireplace and you're like not
• 50:11
  going to the fire." Like, you're
• 50:12
  bringing it.
• 50:13
  >> Oh, that's a great way to put it. It's
• 50:14
  >> you're bringing it to the bookshelf, you
• 50:15
  know? Like, that's bad place for this,
• 50:17
  you know?
• 50:17
  >> Like, okay. Yeah. That angle of like you
• 50:20
  can do taboo stuff, you can do race
• 50:22
  stuff, you can play with fire.
• 50:25
  >> It's fire though.
• 50:27
  >> Yeah.
• 50:27
  >> It's like be careful with fire.
• 50:30
  >> Um, yeah, that's a really that's a
• 50:31
  really great way to Wow. Love I love
• 50:34
  that. Actually, I I guess um and I this
• 50:37
  idea um this idea before of this
• 50:39
  affirming thing. I think that is kind of
• 50:40
  affirming to those guys. Yeah. And I and
• 50:43
  I think like
• 50:44
  >> this idea of like if I could have Tony
• 50:47
  Hinchcliffe
• 50:49
  >> I don't I don't know if I I don't know
• 50:50
  if I could change his mind necessarily,
• 50:52
  but this is uh like it's like telling
• 50:54
  those guys like, "No, I like some of
• 50:56
  your some of your joke structure. Not
• 50:58
  often. Uh
• 51:00
  >> yeah,
• 51:01
  >> but like uh like you can do a a edgy
• 51:05
  joke that plays with fire. That's good.
• 51:07
  Um and or at least structurally good and
• 51:11
  it can also be aesthetically good. It
• 51:12
  depends. Um
• 51:14
  >> but I want to I just want to affirm
• 51:15
  those guys like yes, I I see that you
• 51:19
  intend well with the idea of free
• 51:21
  speech.
• 51:21
  >> Yeah. Um, can we move on now to the next
• 51:26
  like like we like just don't like like
• 51:28
  guys we can
• 51:30
  >> point taken. Yeah.
• 51:31
  >> Point taken.
• 51:31
  >> Yeah.
• 51:32
  >> Got it.
• 51:32
  >> Well, you know,
• 51:34
  >> I made this fish brown by accident.
• 51:36
  >> There there are brown fish.
• 51:39
  Not like this though.
• 51:41
  Well, I mean, but one thing I'll say is
• 51:43
  that so sometimes when I speak like
• 51:45
  this, I always feel a little bit
• 51:46
  insecure because I don't think I have
• 51:47
  great authority in speaking to people
• 51:49
  because I think my
• 51:51
  way comedy I feel like is so
• 51:55
  uh [ __ ] Well, I don't know. I mean,
• 51:58
  obviously I I I like what I do, but I do
• 52:00
  feel like
• 52:03
  I feel like a comedian of that ilk
• 52:05
  wouldn't be wrong to see my act and be
• 52:06
  like, "Fuck that bullshit." You know?
• 52:08
  Like I feel like that if they aren't
• 52:10
  don't have taste for it, that's fine. I
• 52:12
  like have tended to find that some
• 52:16
  people really love what I do. Um some
• 52:19
  people do not like what I do and some
• 52:21
  people like kind of respect what I do,
• 52:23
  you know, like without maybe liking it,
• 52:25
  you know,
• 52:26
  >> love respect.
• 52:26
  >> Um and I think that and I think that is
• 52:29
  because I'm trying to do a lot of
• 52:30
  things. I'm doing songs, I'm doing
• 52:32
  characters, I'm doing like little
• 52:33
  oneliners and making it all work on
• 52:35
  stage I think is hard. And so I think I
• 52:38
  do whether you may not like it but I do
• 52:40
  think I'm making it work you know and I
• 52:41
  so I think that is like where it
• 52:42
  happens. Um so I feel like I have this
• 52:45
  this room of like there's just by doing
• 52:47
  what I do for myself a lot of people
• 52:49
  could write me off is the way I feel and
• 52:50
  that's obviously speaking from
• 52:52
  insecurities and a little bit of I think
• 52:55
  knowledge of my peers you know.
• 52:56
  >> Yeah. But I well I just affirming to you
• 52:59
  I like that despite that insecurity and
• 53:01
  awareness you're like fundamentally it's
• 53:03
  still what you want to do.
• 53:04
  >> Yeah. So I feel like so like my favorite
• 53:07
  joke that I just wrote recently like
• 53:09
  >> is this. I'll do it right now.
• 53:11
  >> This is a bit of a life hack. Do you
• 53:13
  know that croissants are French?
• 53:15
  >> Like it makes sense. The word the word
• 53:17
  croissant even sounds French.
• 53:21
  >> That's my favorite joke right now. Like
• 53:24
  that's that's not really inviting, you
• 53:26
  know, that's not really inviting those
• 53:28
  people to be like look at look at a new
• 53:30
  way you can do it. You're like the joke
• 53:32
  is
• 53:32
  >> the joke is that I'm an idiot.
• 53:34
  >> Yeah. You know, the joke is why would I
• 53:36
  what fool would would think that? Why
• 53:38
  what fool would say that? You know,
• 53:39
  >> and so I guess what we're saying is it's
• 53:41
  like this thing of like um we're
• 53:44
  criticizing them and then we're like but
• 53:46
  fundamentally we're over here going like
• 53:48
  croissants.
• 53:49
  >> Yeah.
• 53:49
  >> Those are French. Yeah. What? Yeah.
• 53:51
  >> And and um
• 53:52
  >> and but it's like it's like
• 53:54
  >> I guess kind of the concern here is it's
• 53:57
  like does that invalidate the criticism?
• 53:59
  I don't think it does.
• 53:59
  >> No, it doesn't. But it does make me
• 54:01
  insecure when I talk about it, you know,
• 54:04
  and I feel like you're
• 54:06
  >> I feel like your jokes are pretty
• 54:07
  undeniable, you know. And so I think
• 54:09
  like I feel like you put I mean if you
• 54:11
  just write out like 10 of your jokes in
• 54:14
  a row just read them out loud much less
• 54:17
  hear you deliver them like uh there's a
• 54:20
  someone would be like well he's got
• 54:22
  something to say about comedy you know
• 54:24
  like he knows this this guy knows the
• 54:25
  craft of comedy you know and I think and
• 54:28
  I think for me there's a venture of like
• 54:29
  what are you do like what are you doing
• 54:31
  do you know I sometimes encounter
• 54:33
  audiences where I feel like they feel
• 54:34
  bad for me you know yeah
• 54:37
  >> I think you've nailed
• 54:38
  the
• 54:40
  like you've nailed the craft of like a
• 54:42
  specific joy.
• 54:44
  >> Sure.
• 54:44
  >> Yeah. Is my angle and I think like um
• 54:48
  and like and comedy is absolutely an
• 54:49
  element of that and I think like you are
• 54:52
  you were in my mind you would be an
• 54:53
  authority on both comedy as well as like
• 54:57
  uh
• 54:57
  >> I don't know anything about songs so
• 54:59
  maybe not but I see but from my
• 55:01
  perspective you're you know a lot about
• 55:02
  song. Like look at this look at this
• 55:04
  [ __ ] thing.
• 55:04
  >> Oh yeah. Show the crowd.
• 55:05
  >> Yeah. Show it. Yeah. Show the crowd.
• 55:09
  >> Oo, we're getting we're getting
• 55:11
  somewhere. I love songs.
• 55:12
  >> I think that's a I think you've got like
• 55:13
  a real eye for like uh fun and art and
• 55:18
  stuff and so I you know what I mean?
• 55:19
  >> Yeah, I appreciate that. What I'll say
• 55:21
  is that I
• 55:24
  >> for better or for worse.
• 55:26
  >> For better or for worse, I really didn't
• 55:28
  like people telling me no when it came
• 55:30
  to self-exression. And so anytime I felt
• 55:34
  like I was in an environment where I was
• 55:36
  being taught or where like being taught
• 55:41
  creativity was an option, I had a
• 55:42
  feeling of like I'm creative enough. I
• 55:44
  just want like let me let me go, you
• 55:47
  know? And in retrospect, I'm like I wish
• 55:48
  I'd like taken craft of other places
• 55:50
  more seriously. But I do think there is
• 55:52
  for better or for worse, I feel like I
• 55:54
  love what I do, you know, and I don't
• 55:56
  like being told no. Um uh about my
• 55:59
  stuff. And so obviously like you develop
• 56:01
  craft and you develop taste and you like
• 56:03
  and comedy is amazing because you feel
• 56:05
  failure so hard and you're like well
• 56:06
  that didn't work. Can it work? Um and I
• 56:09
  think
• 56:12
  and so I think when that specific when I
• 56:14
  do do something that works I feel like
• 56:15
  it feels very from me and that is
• 56:17
  special. I think I think a lot of I care
• 56:19
  about voice you know um I care about my
• 56:21
  voice. I work on my voice, my literal
• 56:23
  voice, and I also like,
• 56:27
  >> you know, like that's that's sounds
• 56:29
  amazing.
• 56:30
  >> YouTube video.
• 56:31
  >> Oh, thank Yeah, that's a hard that's a
• 56:33
  hard thing to sing.
• 56:34
  >> Yeah, I love that
• 56:34
  >> YouTube video.
• 56:36
  >> Like that that took me a while. That
• 56:38
  took lessons to get there. Um, yes.
• 56:40
  >> By the way, check out I don't know what
• 56:42
  end of movie mean. And also check out
• 56:44
  entire teeth like beak, but that's a
• 56:46
  good entry.
• 56:47
  >> But songs,
• 56:48
  >> I do feel I have something to say about
• 56:49
  songs. Uh
• 56:50
  >> yeah,
• 56:51
  >> especially comedy songs. I don't know.
• 56:54
  Like I feel comedy songs are really
• 56:57
  delicate. I feel like
• 57:00
  >> they are
• 57:03
  um
• 57:06
  I have my own way of doing them. I think
• 57:08
  I try to really avoid having the punch
• 57:11
  line being a chorus, you know, like
• 57:13
  >> Interesting.
• 57:14
  >> I I really try to have songs
• 57:15
  >> I've noticed that.
• 57:16
  >> Yeah. Like you like the I don't know
• 57:18
  what a movie ended movie mean. It's like
• 57:20
  each line matters in its
• 57:22
  >> Yeah. Cuz I think a chorus if a chorus
• 57:25
  is repeating the joke
• 57:28
  that second verse has to do a lot of
• 57:30
  heavy lifting and even if you make it
• 57:32
  work you can hear the heavy lifting in
• 57:34
  it and I really prefer to do shorter
• 57:36
  stuff and get in and get out and like
• 57:38
  >> Yeah. I don't I hate I hate a repeated
• 57:40
  joke. I'm like oh you mean the joke you
• 57:42
  just did?
• 57:42
  >> Yeah. you know, and like obviously
• 57:44
  there's like making that work can be
• 57:46
  really satisfying. Like a second beat or
• 57:48
  a third beat can be really satisfying,
• 57:50
  but just for my own taste as a
• 57:52
  songwriter, I don't want to do that
• 57:53
  chorus again.
• 57:55
  >> Like I did like if the chorus is a punch
• 57:57
  line, the chorus is the end of the song,
• 57:58
  you know?
• 57:59
  >> Yeah.
• 57:59
  >> And I'm like very This is going to be um
• 58:04
  I like Randy Newman a lot, of course.
• 58:05
  And I think like he's got some songs
• 58:07
  that are
• 58:09
  >> chorusless.
• 58:10
  >> You're like Randy Newman. Yeah, I'm I'm
• 58:12
  I'm a lot like that guy.
• 58:13
  >> Oh [ __ ] I broke the cap, dude.
• 58:14
  >> What? That's [ __ ] Well, that pen is
• 58:16
  yours now.
• 58:17
  >> Oh my god.
• 58:17
  >> You cuz I I can't take it home.
• 58:19
  >> There we go. Fix it.
• 58:20
  >> You made that fish more brown. You made
• 58:23
  that fish more brown the way you didn't
• 58:24
  want it brown.
• 58:25
  >> Yeah. Now I got to I got to deal with
• 58:27
  it.
• 58:29
  >> You got glitter or anything outline.
• 58:30
  That's the way to do it. Um but also
• 58:32
  this is going to be a bit of a
• 58:34
  >> I got so [ __ ]
• 58:35
  >> This will be a bit embarrassing. This
• 58:36
  actually is not embarrassing all to say,
• 58:38
  but I'm always
• 58:40
  >> I like what you're saying about music.
• 58:41
  Sorry. What were you saying?
• 58:42
  >> What I was going to say is that like I
• 58:43
  got very into this Bach Bach record by
• 58:47
  Glenn Gould called the Goldberg
• 58:49
  Variations. It's sort of like this
• 58:50
  famous classical piece. Um, and I like
• 58:54
  it cuz it's like I don't understand it
• 58:56
  at all. And I've listened to a bunch and
• 58:57
  it's like I barely understand I can
• 58:59
  barely sing a moment of it. And it's
• 59:01
  like all these little movements have
• 59:03
  like for me I'm sure someone who knows
• 59:05
  classical music understands it better
• 59:06
  than I I mean they have feel because I
• 59:07
  understand classical music and I don't
• 59:09
  but like I like these little Goldberg
• 59:11
  variations because they're all these
• 59:12
  these little movements that feel like
• 59:14
  they have internal logic but I don't
• 59:16
  know what they are and they end I'm like
• 59:17
  what was that like very short like a
• 59:19
  minute long and I kind of like like
• 59:21
  writing comedy songs like that where
• 59:23
  it's like I'm you're not going to really
• 59:26
  get a structure here or you can you know
• 59:28
  you have the a gesture towards intro a
• 59:30
  gesture towards verse a gesture towards
• 59:31
  chorus, but I like the feeling of like
• 59:33
  we're building towards something, but
• 59:34
  actually we're done.
• 59:36
  >> You know, like I think that feeling is
• 59:37
  very fun and like, oh well, this is a
• 59:40
  hook, so it could be a chorus, but now
• 59:42
  we're going to end.
• 59:43
  >> Oh, yeah. You know, what's what's your
• 59:45
  extremely short one you do?
• 59:46
  >> I have a few short ones. One is um
• 59:49
  >> Spider is one. Fire.
• 59:51
  >> Yeah. Um so the short ones are uh from
• 59:53
  the album are uh
• 59:55
  >> uh You want to write or to erase? Wait,
• 59:59
  you want both in the same place?
• 1:00:02
  Who try a pencil?
• 1:00:04
  >> Yes.
• 1:00:05
  >> That's amazing. That's obviously an
• 1:00:06
  amazing joke.
• 1:00:07
  >> Amazing. Yes.
• 1:00:07
  >> Um uh uh the fire one doesn't really
• 1:00:11
  work unless you hear the chords, so I
• 1:00:12
  can't sing it.
• 1:00:13
  >> Um cuz that one relies on
• 1:00:15
  >> chaos.
• 1:00:16
  >> Well, that you're building up to
• 1:00:17
  something and then it's a hard out, you
• 1:00:18
  know, like Right.
• 1:00:19
  >> cuz you're you're starting with a groove
• 1:00:21
  and then you have one line that's kind
• 1:00:23
  of grim and then it's done. Oh, that you
• 1:00:25
  know
• 1:00:25
  >> what's the what's the what is the line
• 1:00:27
  though? It's a
• 1:00:32
  the fire kill us all and then
• 1:00:34
  >> Oh yeah yeah yeah yeah.
• 1:00:35
  >> The fire kill us all.
• 1:00:36
  >> I would like that one a lot.
• 1:00:37
  >> Um
• 1:00:38
  >> then the other one was um
• 1:00:42
  spider spin nest in my nose. Why?
• 1:00:46
  >> Well that's that one's connected to
• 1:00:48
  because you have a certain you have a
• 1:00:50
  series of spider ideas.
• 1:00:52
  >> Yeah, I do have a series of spider
• 1:00:53
  ideas. And so that one that one out of
• 1:00:55
  context of other spider ideas doesn't
• 1:00:57
  make as much sense maybe.
• 1:00:58
  >> Yeah, it's well that one
• 1:01:01
  >> cuz some of these like so much of these
• 1:01:02
  are just like why did you do that on
• 1:01:04
  stage you know? It's like and if you are
• 1:01:05
  able to engage with that this like like
• 1:01:07
  that like abstract stuff is happening
• 1:01:09
  and it's sort of silly then it works and
• 1:01:11
  music sometimes helps that where it's
• 1:01:12
  like by establishing a groove you estab
• 1:01:14
  you're establishing an expectation like
• 1:01:16
  a setup punch line you know and by
• 1:01:18
  establishing a groove it's like the
• 1:01:20
  setup by establishing a groove you were
• 1:01:22
  sort of setting up that a song
• 1:01:24
  >> should happen and so when then you say
• 1:01:27
  something like
• 1:01:29
  >> strange or specific or offbeat and then
• 1:01:31
  you're done
• 1:01:32
  >> the joke is that the song didn't happen
• 1:01:33
  it was just just say this one line. I
• 1:01:35
  got you to listen to this stupid
• 1:01:37
  sentence, you know.
• 1:01:38
  >> Yes. And I I guess you saying that is
• 1:01:40
  making me think like, okay, if somebody
• 1:01:42
  were to go into this album, they would
• 1:01:44
  expect it to be a series of comedy songs
• 1:01:46
  that are like
• 1:01:48
  >> a comedy chorus like like a Yeah. But
• 1:01:51
  you're doing like
• 1:01:53
  uh contemporary art
• 1:01:56
  uh duchamp style like playing with the
• 1:02:00
  form music. It's not like like if you
• 1:02:04
  were to listen to this album, it's not
• 1:02:06
  uh
• 1:02:07
  >> it's not like songs.
• 1:02:09
  >> No, no, it's not. There there are a few
• 1:02:11
  songs on it, you know. There are a few
• 1:02:13
  songs on it. Um
• 1:02:15
  >> but it is musical the whole way through,
• 1:02:16
  >> but it's musical the whole way through.
• 1:02:18
  There are jokes in there and characters
• 1:02:20
  in there that are non-m musical. There's
• 1:02:21
  like one big story. Um, but
• 1:02:24
  >> big
• 1:02:25
  >> then there are but there's then there's
• 1:02:26
  songs in between there or like musical
• 1:02:29
  gestures, musical That's why like I
• 1:02:30
  bring up classical music cuz I'm like
• 1:02:32
  some some of these aren't songs. Some of
• 1:02:34
  these are like little movements or
• 1:02:35
  little phrases, you know?
• 1:02:36
  >> I guess my thought is like classical
• 1:02:37
  music like I like in my mind it's like
• 1:02:40
  it's I I mean I see that. I do see that.
• 1:02:43
  But it's so much more in my mind like um
• 1:02:46
  I the painting the that I mean the thing
• 1:02:49
  you're [ __ ] doing drawing right now.
• 1:02:51
  >> Yeah. It's like that.
• 1:02:53
  >> Yeah, I'd say. So, it's like it's like
• 1:02:54
  doesn't it has its own movement. It has
• 1:02:56
  its own rhythm to it. What is it? I
• 1:02:57
  don't [ __ ] know, but like you might
• 1:02:59
  dig it. Know who else actually? Um
• 1:03:02
  Sinatra
• 1:03:03
  >> cuz sometime Frank Sinatra will
• 1:03:05
  sometimes do
• 1:03:07
  >> Don't worry, that's a spare one.
• 1:03:09
  Sometimes Frank Sinatra, sometimes often
• 1:03:12
  the song will be
• 1:03:15
  building like a a verse that is building
• 1:03:17
  to a chorus and it's the big chorus and
• 1:03:19
  then it's like, you know, some little
• 1:03:22
  movement in between and then it's the
• 1:03:24
  same verse and same chorus but a key
• 1:03:26
  change up, you know, and that's the
• 1:03:28
  whole song. And I sort of like that move
• 1:03:30
  movement too where it's like the it's
• 1:03:33
  not like I'm repeating a verse or or I'm
• 1:03:36
  not doing a new verse to get to the
• 1:03:37
  chorus. you've already heard the verse
• 1:03:39
  and chorus and that's it. The only
• 1:03:40
  change is musical, you know, and so
• 1:03:43
  though that type of songwriting I also
• 1:03:44
  like where I'm not going back to a
• 1:03:48
  repeated course. I mean, people do that
• 1:03:49
  so well. I just like I struggle with
• 1:03:50
  that cuz I get bored and I get lost in
• 1:03:52
  it, you know.
• 1:03:53
  >> Yeah. I also think it is boring.
• 1:03:56
  >> It can be. It can be, you know. I feel
• 1:03:58
  like some people do it very well.
• 1:04:00
  >> That's true. That's true. I simply I do
• 1:04:02
  not like when people especially
• 1:04:04
  sometimes people will do a joke and then
• 1:04:06
  they will explain it immediately and
• 1:04:08
  that always pisses me off especially if
• 1:04:10
  the crowd is laughing cuz I'm like no
• 1:04:12
  you heard us laughing that was us
• 1:04:14
  knowing what you meant.
• 1:04:15
  >> Yeah like I don't know.
• 1:04:17
  >> Yeah I like I've done that also we're a
• 1:04:20
  little over an hour just I don't know
• 1:04:22
  how if you Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:04:23
  >> My phone real quick just to make sure
• 1:04:25
  everything is okay.
• 1:04:27
  >> Text all around. Are they
• 1:04:31
  What were we saying?
• 1:04:32
  >> We're talking about music comedy.
• 1:04:34
  >> Music musical comedy. Oh, I for I I I I
• 1:04:38
  have a lot of thoughts about it. Um, and
• 1:04:40
  songwriting and know what I will say
• 1:04:41
  songwriting is a thing I feel very
• 1:04:44
  both amateur-ish about because I don't
• 1:04:46
  like I'm you know there's so many
• 1:04:49
  talented songwriters who do music
• 1:04:51
  full-time or just music is their thing
• 1:04:53
  and I respect that and I feel like the
• 1:04:56
  way music interacts with my work which
• 1:04:57
  is basically comedy and like kids songs.
• 1:05:00
  Um, I feel like I've learned a lot and I
• 1:05:02
  feel very humble about like what there
• 1:05:04
  is to learn, but also when I talk about
• 1:05:06
  songwriting, I'm like, "Oh, I have stuff
• 1:05:07
  to say about this." And that feels kind
• 1:05:08
  of
• 1:05:09
  >> fun, you know? Uh,
• 1:05:11
  >> and just that I have access to grind. I
• 1:05:14
  feel like sometimes sometimes access to
• 1:05:16
  grind are like all that needs to happen
• 1:05:18
  >> um for that. So, uh, all that needs to
• 1:05:22
  really know something about something.
• 1:05:23
  >> You That's interesting that you have an
• 1:05:25
  extra grind. I do. I don't know. I don't
• 1:05:27
  think I went into comedy. Well, I don't
• 1:05:31
  know. I' I've had some sort of I don't
• 1:05:33
  know different abstract axes to grind in
• 1:05:36
  different spaces. I think something
• 1:05:38
  interesting is um
• 1:05:40
  >> I mean we I do think we took a major
• 1:05:41
  chunk of this podcast to talk about a
• 1:05:43
  little bit like the Austin scene is I
• 1:05:44
  think um maybe that's sort of the most
• 1:05:46
  relevant pressing comedy news lately is
• 1:05:50
  how that whole scene is sort of
• 1:05:52
  >> uh or like Capital C comedy and the
• 1:05:54
  whole comedy business is really
• 1:05:56
  >> uh affected by that's the zeitgeist
• 1:06:00
  right now. That's the current culture.
• 1:06:01
  Yeah. Um, and like I got into comedy to
• 1:06:03
  do jokes about bugs or something and now
• 1:06:06
  it's like now I have to have an opinion
• 1:06:08
  about
• 1:06:09
  >> Yeah.
• 1:06:10
  >> Uh, [ __ ]
• 1:06:12
  >> That's something I feel that's something
• 1:06:14
  I feel
• 1:06:14
  >> that's not empathetic.
• 1:06:16
  >> I don't mean to call them [ __ ] I
• 1:06:17
  mean to call them [ __ ]
• 1:06:19
  >> But what what I will say is that like I
• 1:06:21
  definitely got into comedy to be like
• 1:06:23
  silly and creative. And I do think you I
• 1:06:26
  ended up encountering a lot of people
• 1:06:27
  where it's like, "Oh, you don't want to
• 1:06:29
  really do either of those things. You
• 1:06:30
  want to be like
• 1:06:32
  >> uh you want to be a uh
• 1:06:35
  uh a broadcaster.
• 1:06:37
  >> Uh you want to be a philosopher.
• 1:06:40
  >> Let's be
• 1:06:42
  a broadcast philosopher after we had
• 1:06:44
  this whole conversation.
• 1:06:45
  >> Can I can I tell you the moment that
• 1:06:47
  made me take broadcasting seriously?
• 1:06:49
  >> What's that?
• 1:06:49
  >> I was watching the um the ball drop. I
• 1:06:52
  was watching the ball drop on TV for uh
• 1:06:55
  you know New Year's and it was the year
• 1:06:58
  where it was Mariah Carey had like a
• 1:07:00
  huge malfunction. She had a lip sync
• 1:07:02
  malfunction uh and it was like a 3minut
• 1:07:05
  you know performance huge malfunction
• 1:07:08
  went awful was me'd for days and the
• 1:07:10
  camera live television the camera live
• 1:07:13
  goes directly to Ryan Serest in the
• 1:07:16
  audience and he just without missing
• 1:07:17
  goes that's the amazing thing about
• 1:07:18
  Mariah Carey you never know what you're
• 1:07:20
  going to get. now let's move on to this
• 1:07:22
  next performance you know like and the
• 1:07:24
  way he seamlessly cut from
• 1:07:27
  you know a [ __ ] show to like let's keep
• 1:07:29
  it moving I was like that that's craft
• 1:07:32
  that's skill that's broadcasting you
• 1:07:34
  know
• 1:07:34
  >> wow that's broadcasting
• 1:07:36
  >> uh uh but yeah and feeling like even now
• 1:07:38
  thinking like
• 1:07:40
  you know I'm like wondering what my
• 1:07:42
  place is in comedy I'm wondering what my
• 1:07:44
  place is with career both like as the
• 1:07:46
  type of performer I am but also as like
• 1:07:47
  a new father and like what can sustain
• 1:07:49
  our life you know what can I do? Um, and
• 1:07:52
  one of the thing, you know, you think
• 1:07:53
  like, oh, what if I like go harder on
• 1:07:55
  like streaming? What if I like do that?
• 1:07:57
  And I'm like, those people have to
• 1:08:00
  address everything,
• 1:08:01
  >> right?
• 1:08:01
  >> And I I don't want to do that. Like, not
• 1:08:04
  I I don't want to do that, but I be like
• 1:08:06
  don't feel qualified to do that. And
• 1:08:07
  see, like
• 1:08:09
  >> I'd be making it's completely far from
• 1:08:11
  what I did from from what I like and
• 1:08:13
  what I feel
• 1:08:15
  >> artistically driven to do, you know?
• 1:08:17
  It's like what do what
• 1:08:19
  I have to comment on stuff? Like what do
• 1:08:22
  I have to why do I hate that? You know,
• 1:08:24
  I don't want to, you know,
• 1:08:26
  >> the way I've maintained my sanity in
• 1:08:27
  that space is I only do this like
• 1:08:30
  whenever the [ __ ] I feel like it.
• 1:08:32
  >> That's
• 1:08:33
  way I have like a few weeks in between
• 1:08:35
  where I'm like not doing that.
• 1:08:36
  >> That's great. That's great. Um but
• 1:08:38
  >> like Hassan [ __ ] is like 247 has to
• 1:08:41
  like be like,
• 1:08:41
  >> "Yeah,
• 1:08:42
  >> all right. Here's my immediate thoughts
• 1:08:43
  on
• 1:08:45
  uh this shooting or something.
• 1:08:46
  >> Yeah. Yeah. Uh just like being a public
• 1:08:49
  comedian means you have to be a
• 1:08:50
  commentator of world events in a way.
• 1:08:52
  That's actually not true. There's clamp
• 1:08:53
  comedians who don't do that. But it
• 1:08:54
  seems like
• 1:08:55
  >> right even that's commentary though.
• 1:08:57
  >> Yeah. But to be like sort of in the
• 1:09:00
  rhythm of how we receive
• 1:09:04
  most of the comedy right now, you sort
• 1:09:06
  of have to be I think.
• 1:09:07
  >> Yeah. Yeah. And and I and just the
• 1:09:09
  famous classic idea of like being
• 1:09:11
  apolitical or try the attempt to be
• 1:09:14
  apolitical in such a political time is
• 1:09:17
  itself a political act. Yes. You know
• 1:09:20
  the you're making a deliberate choice to
• 1:09:22
  be a bystander. Um I don't know. But not
• 1:09:25
  that not that you necessarily have to
• 1:09:26
  like say the thing yourself but like you
• 1:09:29
  could just be like let me amplify these
• 1:09:31
  other folks or
• 1:09:32
  >> Yes. Exactly.
• 1:09:33
  >> You know. Um
• 1:09:34
  >> bookmark. Damn, you are such a good
• 1:09:36
  artist. Thank you. I completely [ __ ]
• 1:09:38
  up.
• 1:09:39
  >> I misspelled it though.
• 1:09:40
  >> Bogmark. Oh,
• 1:09:42
  >> but here's what we do. Here's here's the
• 1:09:43
  big game I do. The big game is I write
• 1:09:45
  something instead of book
• 1:09:47
  >> when I write bookmark and then I cross
• 1:09:49
  out that part and put book on top of it
• 1:09:52
  because
• 1:09:53
  >> to me
• 1:09:54
  >> that is very funny. And so right now I
• 1:09:58
  will do that very thing.
• 1:10:00
  >> Vogmark.
• 1:10:00
  >> I will do that very thing and we'll see
• 1:10:03
  how it goes. Let's see. Is this
• 1:10:05
  >> I'm happy to have these.
• 1:10:06
  >> Does this work? Let's see if this works.
• 1:10:08
  >> I wish there was a better uh drawer, but
• 1:10:11
  that's uh it's something that you just
• 1:10:12
  simply would have to do over time. And
• 1:10:14
  >> I I just do this for fun and for me, and
• 1:10:17
  I like obviously like I I give them out
• 1:10:19
  in a way that feels a little like
• 1:10:21
  forward, but I've just embraced that. I
• 1:10:24
  don't It's just honestly it's like bird
• 1:10:26
  watching for me. Hate to be that guy,
• 1:10:27
  but I'm going to talk about bird
• 1:10:28
  watching again. Uh where it's like art
• 1:10:30
  and bird watching are both things where
• 1:10:31
  it's like I take a lot of pleasure at
• 1:10:33
  this. I like to be vocal about them
• 1:10:34
  because they're things I love doing. Um,
• 1:10:36
  but like I have chosen to take myself
• 1:10:38
  out of these things as like
• 1:10:41
  developmental craft, you know, where
• 1:10:42
  it's like I am I am doing as much of
• 1:10:45
  this as I want to to bring joy. And part
• 1:10:47
  about bringing joy is developing more
• 1:10:50
  knowledge and more interest and more
• 1:10:51
  craft, but I am not like comparing
• 1:10:52
  myself to anyone else. This is like so I
• 1:10:55
  appreciate you calling me good artist,
• 1:10:56
  but like when I think about people who I
• 1:10:58
  think of a great artists, I'm like,
• 1:11:00
  >> well, I'm not doing like their drafts.
• 1:11:02
  they can draw stuff, you know, like I'm
• 1:11:04
  doing this thing and I've met a lot of
• 1:11:05
  bird watchers who like
• 1:11:07
  >> are know stuff. These are like ecology
• 1:11:10
  people and I'm like so envious of their
• 1:11:12
  knowledge base and I'm like, well,
• 1:11:14
  >> just want to see the bird,
• 1:11:15
  >> but I'm, you know, I'm here to be
• 1:11:17
  present. I'm here to be present, you
• 1:11:18
  know, um,
• 1:11:20
  >> and that's what I think about this type
• 1:11:22
  of art. I think
• 1:11:23
  >> actually can't bird watch. If I ever
• 1:11:25
  told you this
• 1:11:26
  >> because of the binoculars.
• 1:11:27
  >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I told you about this.
• 1:11:29
  >> Yeah. I one I can't hold still and two I
• 1:11:31
  can't hold things near my eyes and man
• 1:11:34
  so it just pisses me the [ __ ] off.
• 1:11:36
  >> What about fishing? I feel like fishing
• 1:11:38
  is probably
• 1:11:38
  >> fishing I could do.
• 1:11:39
  >> Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:11:39
  >> Yeah. Fishing I have done
• 1:11:40
  >> cuz I feel like I was never into fishing
• 1:11:42
  before until I found out about how fun
• 1:11:44
  bird watching was and I was like oh
• 1:11:45
  fishing is sort of the same thing.
• 1:11:46
  You're like just seeing what's there,
• 1:11:48
  you know, like you're just seeing what's
• 1:11:50
  there.
• 1:11:50
  >> I can cuz I don't have a thing near my
• 1:11:52
  eyes and I haven't fished in a long
• 1:11:54
  time. Um, but yeah, you're just chilling
• 1:11:56
  and like I can move as much as I need
• 1:11:58
  to,
• 1:11:59
  >> you know? Yeah.
• 1:12:00
  >> Um, I need to go soon, but I feel I feel
• 1:12:01
  like we should talk about our favorite
• 1:12:03
  animals real quick.
• 1:12:04
  >> You want Do you want
• 1:12:04
  >> Yeah, I do.
• 1:12:05
  >> Do you want either or both?
• 1:12:07
  >> I want this one.
• 1:12:08
  >> Yeah. Nice.
• 1:12:09
  >> Wait, actually, you know what? No. Let
• 1:12:10
  me see that one.
• 1:12:10
  >> No, no, no, no, no, no, no,
• 1:12:12
  >> no. Actually, no. This No, this one.
• 1:12:13
  Actually, I want this one.
• 1:12:14
  >> My horrible brown one.
• 1:12:15
  >> Well, cuz there's there's a lot of
• 1:12:16
  emotion on that, you know, like hiding,
• 1:12:19
  you know, and it looks really good from
• 1:12:21
  far away.
• 1:12:21
  >> There's a cooked there's a baked in idea
• 1:12:23
  there. I feel like we got to talk about
• 1:12:24
  our favorite animals before our favorite
• 1:12:26
  animals in general and our favorite
• 1:12:28
  animals to make jokes about.
• 1:12:29
  >> Oh, that's an interesting distinction.
• 1:12:31
  Uh because there's a lot of you you're
• 1:12:34
  the Yeah, it's I guess we hadn't really
• 1:12:36
  talked about this too much with uh like
• 1:12:38
  the bug angle, but there's like animals
• 1:12:40
  that are so done in comedy where it's
• 1:12:42
  like ducks, horses,
• 1:12:45
  >> um and like for some reason people
• 1:12:46
  people like, "Oh, horses are funny." You
• 1:12:48
  know, people just people made a lot of
• 1:12:49
  horse jokes because they're around
• 1:12:50
  horses all the time.
• 1:12:51
  >> Yes. Um,
• 1:12:53
  but
• 1:12:54
  >> cats are cats feel too niche and so it's
• 1:12:58
  harder to make jokes about cat. I think
• 1:12:59
  so. I think when people make jokes about
• 1:13:01
  cats,
• 1:13:02
  >> something in your brain is like in some
• 1:13:04
  people's brain is like
• 1:13:06
  >> cats are sort of like
• 1:13:09
  >> I do think so. I think because everyone
• 1:13:12
  knows what it means to have a dog and
• 1:13:14
  having a cat is actually like the
• 1:13:16
  lifestyle is a little more social like
• 1:13:18
  maniacal, you know? Like when you live
• 1:13:20
  with a cat, you are like,
• 1:13:21
  >> "Yeah, but people know."
• 1:13:23
  >> I guess so. But I I feel like sometimes
• 1:13:25
  if you make jokes about cats,
• 1:13:27
  >> you're like, "Do you guys love your cat
• 1:13:28
  the way I love my cat?" And then you
• 1:13:30
  sort of like now it's a niche joke.
• 1:13:32
  >> That's true. That's true.
• 1:13:34
  >> Or like, you know how cats are annoying,
• 1:13:35
  but they're You know how cats are so
• 1:13:36
  annoying, but you love them so [ __ ]
• 1:13:37
  much. Either way, now it's like, you
• 1:13:39
  know, like like that specific emotions
• 1:13:41
  about cats I can imagine would
• 1:13:43
  >> hit a hit. Yeah.
• 1:13:44
  >> Because cats have like a they they're
• 1:13:47
  doing social warfare against you. where
• 1:13:48
  dogs are like, "Well, no, we like we
• 1:13:50
  rely on each other, you know."
• 1:13:51
  >> What's your favorite animal to do a joke
• 1:13:53
  about?
• 1:13:55
  >> I think like I think birds in general I
• 1:13:57
  like. Um I think spiders have just been
• 1:13:59
  like really generative to me cuz I feel
• 1:14:01
  there's a lot of opportunities for
• 1:14:02
  punchlines with them,
• 1:14:03
  >> you know? Um because everyone knows
• 1:14:05
  about their things. Like I feel like the
• 1:14:07
  best animals to do jokes about are ones
• 1:14:09
  where like you know they have a thing.
• 1:14:11
  >> So like a skunk you know they have a
• 1:14:12
  thing. A woodpecker you know they have a
• 1:14:14
  thing. Can I Okay, so I agree except
• 1:14:18
  >> that
• 1:14:19
  >> I one of my favorite things to do is to
• 1:14:21
  look at an animal that I really like
• 1:14:23
  like a hummingbird or something.
• 1:14:24
  >> Try to find
• 1:14:26
  >> the thing that people don't know is a
• 1:14:30
  thing yet.
• 1:14:31
  >> Tap into that.
• 1:14:32
  >> Like I've got that I'm not going to do
• 1:14:34
  the whole joke, but the fact that
• 1:14:35
  hummingbirds have where like every TV
• 1:14:37
  screen was used to like these
• 1:14:38
  hummingbirds to show how good the TV
• 1:14:40
  screen was. Oh,
• 1:14:41
  >> that's something that we can all
• 1:14:42
  recognize, but it's not like an
• 1:14:43
  immediate like skunk smell. Yeah. Sorry,
• 1:14:45
  I didn't mean to.
• 1:14:46
  >> No, no, but that that is
• 1:14:47
  >> I try to find the thing.
• 1:14:48
  >> That's that I love that stuff because I
• 1:14:50
  feel like it is such a I love creative
• 1:14:52
  ways of looking at animals and it's like
• 1:14:53
  we all use animals in our lives in all
• 1:14:56
  these different ways that are toemic or
• 1:14:58
  referential or for joy or for just like
• 1:15:02
  >> that's what I like is uh I like pigeons
• 1:15:04
  for example, you know? Oh, yeah. or like
• 1:15:06
  rats because I feel like those are
• 1:15:07
  animals that people have a negative
• 1:15:09
  reaction to and I feel like just by
• 1:15:10
  coming to them with a positive reaction,
• 1:15:11
  you sort of like already have the
• 1:15:13
  template for a joke where it's like
• 1:15:14
  >> interesting.
• 1:15:15
  >> Even like saying rats are our neighbors
• 1:15:16
  on stage get to laugh.
• 1:15:18
  >> I'm like I don't have a problem with
• 1:15:18
  them. They're our neighbors, you know,
• 1:15:19
  like
• 1:15:20
  >> I I well I guess with like rats I kind
• 1:15:22
  of go the even harsher route where I'm
• 1:15:24
  like,
• 1:15:25
  >> you know, a rat king is actually there's
• 1:15:27
  a heartbeat right in the middle and it's
• 1:15:29
  its own being
• 1:15:30
  >> and I kind of go like like even even
• 1:15:32
  freakier, you know? I don't know. I uh I
• 1:15:35
  like that.
• 1:15:35
  >> It's a web that catches all the
• 1:15:37
  stillborn babies nearby.
• 1:15:38
  >> That's And then you It's the developing
• 1:15:41
  mythology. It's like developing
• 1:15:42
  mythology on animal.
• 1:15:43
  >> Love doing that. Love that.
• 1:15:45
  >> Um I feel like have I come up with one
• 1:15:47
  recently? I feel
• 1:15:48
  >> Let me think of a favorite animal to do
• 1:15:50
  jokes about.
• 1:15:51
  >> Um
• 1:15:52
  >> probably butterflies.
• 1:15:53
  >> Yeah, I feel I got a lot of butterflies.
• 1:15:55
  >> Butterflies is my favorite bug. What
• 1:15:56
  >> butterflies is your favorite bug?
• 1:15:57
  >> Uh to do to do jokes about cicas might
• 1:15:59
  be my favorite as an idea.
• 1:16:01
  >> Cicas are great. Yeah, because because I
• 1:16:02
  mean they have this that's what I like
• 1:16:04
  about they all have a thing, you know,
• 1:16:06
  and it's like the X-Men. All of the
• 1:16:08
  X-Men have a thing, you know?
• 1:16:10
  >> Yeah. 17 years for this kid is I'm like,
• 1:16:12
  let's go.
• 1:16:13
  >> There's so much there, right? Uh
• 1:16:16
  >> I feel like lizards were my big thing as
• 1:16:19
  a kid. I loved lizards. Like every year
• 1:16:20
  I wrote a paper about the Camilo dragon.
• 1:16:23
  Same red every time. Really?
• 1:16:25
  >> Yeah. In elementary school, we had this
• 1:16:27
  thing was like every year you could
• 1:16:27
  write a paper or do like a presentation
• 1:16:29
  on like anything you wanted and every
• 1:16:31
  year they dragons. Um,
• 1:16:32
  >> that's awesome.
• 1:16:34
  >> I went back to the same books. I was
• 1:16:35
  like expecting, you know, it's like I
• 1:16:37
  mean there'll probably be some new
• 1:16:38
  research out these days. There'll
• 1:16:39
  probably be a new National Geographic
• 1:16:40
  about after these the new zoo books as
• 1:16:42
  the new zoo books come out.
• 1:16:43
  >> Um, I feel like what is the I feel like
• 1:16:46
  birds recently just cuz I see I'm
• 1:16:47
  specific bird heron.
• 1:16:49
  >> Heron's my favorite bird.
• 1:16:50
  >> I know.
• 1:16:50
  >> Um, uh,
• 1:16:51
  >> why don't I already know that?
• 1:16:53
  >> I guess I probably post about them a
• 1:16:54
  lot. No, I think we've actually had some
• 1:16:56
  version of this conversation. That makes
• 1:16:57
  sense.
• 1:16:58
  >> Uh uh I like
• 1:17:00
  >> any
• 1:17:01
  >> I think mine is hummingbird. Sorry.
• 1:17:02
  >> Oh, yeah. I mean that's that totally
• 1:17:04
  makes sense. They're they're well cuz
• 1:17:06
  those birds they make me feel like they
• 1:17:08
  make me dis. So I I listen to the Wilco
• 1:17:12
  what's the Wilco guy's name? Tweety.
• 1:17:14
  Jeff Tweety. He read wrote this book
• 1:17:16
  called How to Write One Song, which is
• 1:17:18
  sort of like about writing songs, but
• 1:17:20
  also sort of like a self-helpy creative
• 1:17:24
  book, accessing creativity, which I
• 1:17:26
  really liked. And he talked about
• 1:17:27
  songwriting as disappearing, whereas
• 1:17:29
  like when you're writing a song, you
• 1:17:30
  sort of disappear because you were like
• 1:17:32
  just in the space of trying to create
• 1:17:34
  something else. And I really liked that
• 1:17:37
  really spoke to the way I think about
• 1:17:39
  art myself and songwriting myself and
• 1:17:41
  just like being on stage. I think about
• 1:17:43
  disappearing and like I'm not myself on
• 1:17:44
  stage. I'm something else.
• 1:17:46
  >> That's what I like. And I think animals
• 1:17:48
  allow me to
• 1:17:50
  like imagine myself as someone else or
• 1:17:52
  like to they're a template for being
• 1:17:54
  someone else. I could be like that. I
• 1:17:55
  want to be an animal, you know, like
• 1:17:56
  >> um and so thinking about animals in a
• 1:17:59
  ways of embodiment and like empathy and
• 1:18:01
  like what happens when I'm like them,
• 1:18:03
  what happens when they're like me or
• 1:18:04
  what about me changes by being around
• 1:18:06
  them. Uh that makes me feel like I
• 1:18:08
  disappear for myself and that brings me
• 1:18:10
  a lot of joy.
• 1:18:11
  >> No, that's awesome. That's cool. Yeah. I
• 1:18:13
  don't know. I guess I that's so neat. I
• 1:18:15
  I don't really think I don't think about
• 1:18:17
  it too much in relation to the self of
• 1:18:20
  thinking about or I that's not true. I
• 1:18:23
  do I think about it more where it's like
• 1:18:24
  I like the aesthetic Yeah.
• 1:18:26
  >> of hummingbirds than frogs and such. And
• 1:18:28
  so like when I tap when I think about
• 1:18:30
  the idea of frogs, I think about
• 1:18:32
  >> being in the woods and seeing a frog in
• 1:18:34
  a creek and and whatnot. And like it to
• 1:18:36
  me it's like the whole thing the whole
• 1:18:37
  experience of being there and seeing it
• 1:18:39
  and the lily pads and whatnot. Um same
• 1:18:41
  with like hummingbirds. I'm thinking
• 1:18:42
  about like seeing them in my grandma's
• 1:18:44
  like feeder and stuff like that.
• 1:18:45
  >> Yes.
• 1:18:46
  >> Um and they're iridescent colors and
• 1:18:48
  seeing them in my backyard in Philly and
• 1:18:50
  whatnot. Um and so
• 1:18:52
  >> there's this energy. There's this whole
• 1:18:53
  thing that I I just like to tap into
• 1:18:55
  those memories and to tap into that
• 1:18:57
  vibe. You know what I mean?
• 1:18:58
  >> I do know what you mean. I mean I feel
• 1:18:59
  that way about I'm from Maryland.
• 1:19:01
  >> Um you know the Baltimore Orioles were
• 1:19:04
  the only Maryland baseball team uh when
• 1:19:07
  I was a kid and because I'm I'm from DC,
• 1:19:09
  the more DC area. Um, and uh, they have
• 1:19:13
  this iconic bird and that like I saw
• 1:19:15
  before I ever saw an oral also like the
• 1:19:18
  Maryland State bird is a Baltimore oral.
• 1:19:20
  And so it's like I see this iconography.
• 1:19:22
  So whenever I see a Baltimore oral now
• 1:19:24
  I'm like
• 1:19:25
  >> I mean I moved to tears, you know, it's
• 1:19:26
  like it's like that's the that's the
• 1:19:28
  thing, you know, like that's home.
• 1:19:30
  >> Whenever I see a bald eagle, I'm like
• 1:19:32
  [ __ ] yeah.
• 1:19:33
  >> Exactly. Exactly that way, you know.
• 1:19:35
  >> Or a turkey. Um, well, when I see what
• 1:19:38
  you mean, I know what you honestly when
• 1:19:39
  I see a turkey, I just get [ __ ]
• 1:19:40
  hungry.
• 1:19:41
  >> No, I I really do. I get hungry when I
• 1:19:43
  see a turkey. Feel that.
• 1:19:45
  >> Um, I feel that.
• 1:19:46
  >> But like, you know, I see
• 1:19:48
  >> when I see a bald eagle, I get hungry.
• 1:19:50
  >> Yeah. I feel like Yeah. But I see a
• 1:19:52
  frog, I think about being in a creek as
• 1:19:54
  a kid. I see a lizard or a bat, I think
• 1:19:57
  about like being a kid and being like,
• 1:19:59
  what what's that my like what can I be?
• 1:20:01
  You know,
• 1:20:01
  >> I think you and I are tapping into
• 1:20:03
  extremely similar experiences. Yeah.
• 1:20:05
  Where like I think like
• 1:20:07
  >> there's people that grew up and I know
• 1:20:08
  you got to go in a second. Uh there's
• 1:20:09
  people that grew up in like New York
• 1:20:11
  City
• 1:20:12
  >> and uh like Oh, you're you're really
• 1:20:14
  quick.
• 1:20:15
  >> No, no. I I I thought I read the the
• 1:20:16
  clock wrong. So I was like, okay, you're
• 1:20:18
  like twice in a
• 1:20:20
  >> Well, cuz I Here's what happened. I I
• 1:20:22
  looked I went, "Uh, okay. 135." Wait, is
• 1:20:26
  it actually 2:35? No, it's 135. And then
• 1:20:28
  you're like, I know. And then you were
• 1:20:29
  said, I noticed you look at your watch
• 1:20:30
  twice.
• 1:20:32
  Yeah. Like uh but uh I think you and I
• 1:20:35
  have some similar shared experience that
• 1:20:36
  different people do of Creek or Frog.
• 1:20:40
  >> Creek being the big space. Yeah.
• 1:20:42
  >> Yeah. People that grew up in New York or
• 1:20:44
  like Long Island or something, different
• 1:20:46
  comedians, um their comedy is often
• 1:20:50
  people and social idea oriented because
• 1:20:53
  that's what they did. Yes. Um, and I
• 1:20:56
  also think there's a lot of this like uh
• 1:20:58
  so many people mushed on top of each
• 1:21:00
  other that makes you like neurotic where
• 1:21:02
  you get like comedians doing like Woody
• 1:21:05
  Allen or you get Jerry Seinfeld doing
• 1:21:07
  the minutia of social interaction type
• 1:21:09
  stuff.
• 1:21:10
  >> Um,
• 1:21:11
  >> my two examples of I don't know where
• 1:21:13
  Woody Allen's from, but anyway. Um,
• 1:21:15
  >> Brooklyn, I imagine I think
• 1:21:16
  >> I imagine I imagine um but you and I are
• 1:21:19
  from places where there is where a core
• 1:21:22
  memory is. Uh, I'm just going to tap
• 1:21:24
  into this for you. Seeing a dragonfly.
• 1:21:26
  >> Yeah.
• 1:21:26
  >> You know what I mean? Um and
• 1:21:28
  >> like of course
• 1:21:30
  >> uh seeing a great blue heron like blew
• 1:21:31
  my mind. Seeing animals blew my mind,
• 1:21:33
  you know? Um for me I feel the core of
• 1:21:37
  like
• 1:21:38
  >> when I think I was like a real play by
• 1:21:40
  myself type person or having like I have
• 1:21:42
  one friend and they are playing with
• 1:21:44
  toys and I'm playing the beast and
• 1:21:46
  interacting with the toys. You know what
• 1:21:47
  I mean? Um, and I
• 1:21:50
  playing basketball in elementary school.
• 1:21:52
  Deciding to like basketball was how I
• 1:21:54
  learned how to make friends with a group
• 1:21:56
  of people, with a group of guys, you
• 1:21:57
  know. Um, and for me, we would play
• 1:22:02
  basketball this court that was nearby
• 1:22:03
  like a creek. And so playing on that
• 1:22:06
  court and then that becoming exploding
• 1:22:08
  in the creek,
• 1:22:09
  >> the ball would roll.
• 1:22:09
  >> The ball went rolling when I were
• 1:22:11
  exploring or like it's getting late.
• 1:22:14
  So, or people older kids kick us off the
• 1:22:17
  court, so we have to do something else,
• 1:22:18
  you know, like um or like, "Oh, let's go
• 1:22:20
  to the creek. We'll play basketball
• 1:22:21
  after." Or, "Let's play basketball.
• 1:22:22
  We'll go to the creek after." You know,
• 1:22:24
  like
• 1:22:24
  >> Yes. The creek is a core idea.
• 1:22:26
  >> Yes. Those
• 1:22:26
  >> going up and seeing how far you can get
• 1:22:28
  while going across private property on a
• 1:22:30
  creek.
• 1:22:30
  >> Exactly. Oh, yeah. Sneaking the private
• 1:22:32
  property, you know, like wearing the
• 1:22:33
  wrong shoes. Someone threw the ball.
• 1:22:35
  We're making We're making I
• 1:22:38
  >> Dean, I'm sorry. I We made you walk in.
• 1:22:40
  You threw the ball. So, here's Dean was
• 1:22:43
  being Dean was being mean to Jean and
• 1:22:46
  Jean got mad and threw the ball into the
• 1:22:48
  creek and
• 1:22:49
  >> and Jean was right cuz Dean was being
• 1:22:51
  too mean. But we went Jean Well, now you
• 1:22:54
  got to get the ball cuz you were the one
• 1:22:55
  who threw it in, right?
• 1:22:56
  >> That wasn't fair. Um but
• 1:22:58
  >> true story.
• 1:22:59
  >> True story. But like I feel like
• 1:23:00
  basketball,
• 1:23:02
  >> I was a bit fatter kid. I was like a
• 1:23:04
  chubbier kid. I was a bit taller, too.
• 1:23:05
  And so I feel like having athletics be
• 1:23:07
  like, "Oh, well don't worry. you can be
• 1:23:09
  a center or power forward while like
• 1:23:12
  your shorter more like athletic friends
• 1:23:14
  are point guards or shooting guards and
• 1:23:16
  that can all work together. That really
• 1:23:18
  taught me about like social placement
• 1:23:20
  how like oh you can own myself and fit
• 1:23:22
  in with the group
• 1:23:23
  >> and then that allowed me to like be a
• 1:23:26
  different type of person that helped me
• 1:23:28
  to own myself I think or be like oh I
• 1:23:31
  can bring there's value in who I am if
• 1:23:34
  we all value who we are and like let it
• 1:23:37
  mix together. Yes.
• 1:23:38
  >> And then that right next to like By the
• 1:23:39
  way, can we all just explore [ __ ]
• 1:23:42
  >> Favorite animal is basketball.
• 1:23:44
  >> Honestly. Honestly,
• 1:23:46
  >> basketball.
• 1:23:46
  >> I mean, I love it. I'm like, it's the be
• 1:23:49
  it's the best, you know.
• 1:23:50
  >> I know what you I played soccer for uh
• 1:23:53
  ages 4 to 18
• 1:23:55
  >> and I that's a huge part of my life.
• 1:23:57
  >> Yeah. And like it your social I'm sure
• 1:23:59
  to what it does to your social brain and
• 1:24:01
  your jokewriting brain. You're like
• 1:24:03
  where do I where do I like
• 1:24:05
  >> We're all with each other like in
• 1:24:06
  basketball. like with each other.
• 1:24:07
  >> Teamwork is an important thing to Yeah.
• 1:24:10
  Yes. It's such a fun thing of teamwork.
• 1:24:13
  I think I mean I think about this a lot
• 1:24:14
  where like you had school and then I
• 1:24:16
  also had various things like uh soccer
• 1:24:20
  or nature camp. Yeah.
• 1:24:21
  >> Or uh synagogue and [ __ ] like that. Uh
• 1:24:25
  by the way, [ __ ] synagogue.
• 1:24:28
  >> But um
• 1:24:30
  whatever, not the point. Um, but I like
• 1:24:33
  the social groups they had at these
• 1:24:35
  different places and like they would be
• 1:24:36
  different people because they wouldn't
• 1:24:38
  necessarily go to my school.
• 1:24:40
  >> Yeah. You know what I mean? Or they
• 1:24:42
  different grades and [ __ ] And so you
• 1:24:43
  get to you end up
• 1:24:45
  >> being a new person in different social
• 1:24:47
  dynamics. Yes. And going like, "Oh
• 1:24:48
  shit." Oh, even though I'm the same guy,
• 1:24:50
  I'm at a different role here.
• 1:24:51
  >> Yes. And that rules. And I often think
• 1:24:53
  about this. I was a counselor a lot as a
• 1:24:55
  as a not I guess as a young adult. I was
• 1:24:57
  like when I was in high school as a
• 1:24:59
  counselor when I graduated when I was in
• 1:25:00
  college I was a counselor for summer
• 1:25:02
  graduate college I was a counselor for a
• 1:25:04
  few years. Um and I just really do
• 1:25:06
  believe and how valuable it is to be an
• 1:25:11
  adult working with kids when you are not
• 1:25:14
  their teacher or their parent. You know
• 1:25:15
  it's like you don't have those I think
• 1:25:16
  like those are really important social
• 1:25:19
  bonds to make. Um mentorship I suppose
• 1:25:21
  is like one version. I don't really
• 1:25:23
  think of it like that. It's like I think
• 1:25:24
  just being with people and be like, "Oh,
• 1:25:25
  well, you said something funny." Like an
• 1:25:28
  adult saying a kid says something funny
• 1:25:29
  I think is really valuable. Um and
• 1:25:31
  similarly being kids with other kids who
• 1:25:34
  you don't go to school with or aren't
• 1:25:35
  who like your parents don't know their
• 1:25:38
  kids. Like that type of thing is also
• 1:25:39
  very valuable where it's like you don't
• 1:25:41
  we don't know each other. We can
• 1:25:42
  actually be like peers in a way that
• 1:25:44
  like
• 1:25:44
  >> you know you can't really be peers with
• 1:25:46
  your classmates. They know every version
• 1:25:47
  of you. It's like it's hard to do that.
• 1:25:49
  You can't really own yourself in the way
• 1:25:51
  you used to. you're carrying the baggage
• 1:25:52
  of the past around. You play sports or
• 1:25:55
  you play different you do different
• 1:25:56
  activities with different people. It's
• 1:25:57
  only like we just be be yourself here
• 1:26:00
  and see what works, you know?
• 1:26:01
  >> Yeah.
• 1:26:01
  >> Um I have to get going.
• 1:26:03
  >> He's got to get going, folks. And that's
• 1:26:05
  and that's that. And we What a
• 1:26:06
  conversation. Amazing.
• 1:26:08
  >> Hey, come on.
• 1:26:08
  >> We'll we'll bookmark it there.
• 1:26:10
  >> Oh my gosh, that's funny. That's
• 1:26:13
  actually good. Do you have like a series
• 1:26:15
  of jokes about bookmarks? Cuz I feel
• 1:26:16
  like that is a thing you could start
• 1:26:18
  doing. No, I
• 1:26:20
  >> But you should.
• 1:26:22
  Okay.
• 1:26:24
  And ends there. Yeah.
• 1:26:25
  >> Okay.
• 1:26:26
  >> And we'll leave it at that, folks. All
• 1:26:27
  right. No, that's great. Thank you so
• 1:26:28
  much for coming.
• 1:26:29
  >> Thank you.