Latest / The Bolt Report / The Bolt Report | 16 September

Transcript

The Bolt Report | 16 September · The Bolt Report

0:11
Speaker 1: This is the Bolt Report.
0:14
Speaker 2: Thanks for joining me on The Bolt Report. I'm James McPherson.
0:17
Speaker 2: Here's what's coming up tonight. Chris Bowen cops.
0:19
Speaker 1: A stinging humiliation.
0:21
Speaker 2: Not only is Labor falling massively short of its 82
0:24
Speaker 2: percent renewables target, but Turkey, the host of COP 31,
0:29
Speaker 2: has publicly rebuked Australia for behaving like a co-host when
0:32
Speaker 2: in fact they say we're not. I'll speak to Nationals
0:35
Speaker 2: MP Michael McCormack about that shortly. And Donald Trump is
0:39
Speaker 2: under pressure over the mounting costs of the war with Iran.
0:42
Speaker 2: More than $ 53 billion spent already, and it's estimated it'll
0:46
Speaker 2: take the US more than five years to replenish the
0:49
Speaker 2: missiles it's used so far. News24 defence analyst Peter Jennings
0:54
Speaker 2: will join the program. Plus, it's looking like pop star
0:57
Speaker 2: Ed Sheeran will have to go it all alone. Every
1:01
Speaker 2: single support act for his US tour has quit the tour.
1:04
Speaker 2: upset they don't get to use Ed Sheeran's stage to
1:07
Speaker 2: rant against Israel.
1:09
Speaker 1: More on that shortly.
1:10
Speaker 2: But first, the Home Affairs Department is advertising for an
1:14
Speaker 2: organisation to help them stop people being radicalised online. That's
1:20
Speaker 2: a pretty important job, I would have thought. It comes
1:24
Speaker 2: after ASIO boss Mike Burgess reported that 16 serious terror plots...
1:30
Speaker 2: have been foiled in this country since the Bondi terror
1:32
Speaker 2: attack last December. It also comes after reports that current
1:37
Speaker 2: de-radicalisation programs are failing miserably. The Australian reported last week
1:43
Speaker 2: that of almost 300 radicalised individuals to have completed three
1:47
Speaker 2: months of a government-approved course, only 23 were less extreme.
1:53
Speaker 2: 24 were assessed as having become more radicalised. Considering we're
1:58
Speaker 2: paying $ 75 million for that non-deradicalising, deradicalisation.
2:03
Speaker 1: Course, that's a pretty poor return.
2:06
Speaker 2: So I was interested to have a look at the
2:08
Speaker 2: tender documents for this latest government contract aimed at diverting
2:13
Speaker 2: potential terrorists. The contract is called Countering Violent Extremism Online
2:19
Speaker 2: Offline Diversions. And according to the tender documents, the purpose
2:24
Speaker 2: is to identify and engage individuals' online platforms who exhibit
2:30
Speaker 2: behavioural indicators associated with vulnerability to radicalisation, terrorism or violent
2:36
Speaker 2: extremism and to facilitate their connection to appropriate support services.
2:43
Speaker 2: So all of that sounds to me like a very
2:45
Speaker 2: important project. But then in the third sentence of the
2:50
Speaker 2: tender documents, we read this. All diversion initiatives must be
2:54
Speaker 2: ideologically neutral and based on behavioural risk rather than any
3:00
Speaker 2: particular extremist ideology. Now, I'm not sure about you, but
3:05
Speaker 2: that sounds rather odd to me. We're trying to stop
3:09
Speaker 2: people becoming terrorists, but apparently we're not allowed to ask
3:13
Speaker 2: what ideas are turning them into terrorists. It's a bit
3:17
Speaker 2: like trying to stop a cult recruiting new members while
3:20
Speaker 2: insisting the investigators remain completely neutral about the existence of
3:24
Speaker 2: the cult itself. Terrorism is not an ideologically neutral behaviour.
3:30
Speaker 1: Terrorism is violent.
3:31
Speaker 2: Behaviour motivated by ideology, whether political or religious. So why
3:38
Speaker 2: would our government insist, as a first point of order,
3:41
Speaker 2: that a counter-radicalisation program promises to wear an ideological blindfold?
3:47
Speaker 2: I mean, you can't seriously counter-radicalisation while pretending the thing
3:51
Speaker 2: doing the radicalising is somehow irrelevant. Well, later in the document,
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Speaker 2: it specifies that whoever wins this contract must, and I quote,
4:00
Speaker 2: ensure all methodologies are ideologically neutral and proportionate and non-discriminatory.
4:07
Speaker 2: And I think there's the clue, or should I say
4:09
Speaker 2: red flashing light. We don't want an initiative aimed at
4:13
Speaker 2: turning people away from violent ideologies to think about any
4:16
Speaker 2: particular ideologies in case it prompts charges of discrimination. Good
4:22
Speaker 2: to know that when it comes to protecting the public
4:24
Speaker 2: from terrorism, the government's first concern is to protect themselves
4:28
Speaker 2: from being accused of not treating everyone equally.
4:32
Speaker 1: But see, here's the thing.
4:33
Speaker 2: Refusing to identify an ideology because some members of the
4:36
Speaker 2: wider community might feel targeted is not the same thing
4:40
Speaker 2: as treating people equally.
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Speaker 1: In fact, it's quite the opposite.
4:44
Speaker 2: I would argue that the government is compromising the right
4:47
Speaker 2: of all Australians to be equally safe because they're worried,
4:51
Speaker 2: at least in some instances, about the feelings of a
4:54
Speaker 2: minority of Australians. Former ASIO boss Dennis Richardson made precisely
4:59
Speaker 2: this point in a speech he gave to the Lowy
5:02
Speaker 2: Institute last night. He said that media reports of anti-Semitic
5:06
Speaker 2: attacks after October 7 were deliberately muted for fear of
5:11
Speaker 2: being seen to put blame on a particular part of
5:14
Speaker 2: the community. And protecting a particular part of the community
5:18
Speaker 2: from generalisations was deemed more important than protecting the public
5:22
Speaker 2: or even our own MPs from violence by highlighting and
5:27
Speaker 2: condemning the problem.
5:29
Speaker 3: Some of the initial attacks on the electoral officers of
5:33
Speaker 3: MPs was not widely reported. At times and in part
5:41
Speaker 3: because of the misguided concern that it might inflame social tensions,
5:48
Speaker 3: as opposed to putting the spotlight on the conduct which
5:52
Speaker 3: deserved to be highlighted and condemned.
5:56
Speaker 2: And what was the result of such enlightened thinking?
6:00
Speaker 1: More violence.
6:02
Speaker 3: I tend to agree with those who argue that following
6:05
Speaker 3: 7 October, we dropped the ball and failed to draw
6:10
Speaker 3: a line.
6:11
Speaker 4: I do believe, however, that.
6:13
Speaker 3: A more forceful, and consistent response to the blatant anti-Semitism
6:19
Speaker 3: we saw in the immediate aftermath of 7th of October
6:24
Speaker 3: may well have set a different tone and drawn a
6:28
Speaker 3: clearer line between the acceptable and the unacceptable.
6:34
Speaker 2: So if we want to counter anti-Semitism and if we
6:36
Speaker 2: want to stop future terrorist attacks, what should we do? Well,
6:41
Speaker 2: as I understand Dennis Richardson, we should do exactly the
6:44
Speaker 2: opposite of what the Home Affairs Department is suggesting. We
6:48
Speaker 2: should insist on removing the ideological blindfold.
6:52
Speaker 3: The sources of anti-Semitism must be addressed in a sensible
6:58
Speaker 3: and mature way, including open discussion about extremist Islamists without
7:07
Speaker 3: Australian Muslims as a whole feeling targeted.
7:12
Speaker 1: Bingo.
7:14
Speaker 2: The way to beat radical Islam is not by pretending
7:16
Speaker 2: radical Islam doesn't exist. The way to counter extremist Islamists
7:20
Speaker 2: is to take off the ideological blindfold and openly discuss
7:24
Speaker 2: the fact that radical Islam is motivating terror attacks.
7:29
Speaker 1: Two things on that.
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Speaker 2: First, we should be mature enough to have that discussion
7:33
Speaker 2: without painting every Muslim as being responsible for the actions.
7:37
Speaker 1: Of violent extremists.
7:39
Speaker 2: But second, The Muslim community should be honest enough to
7:42
Speaker 2: acknowledge that radical Islamists aren't springing up out of the
7:45
Speaker 2: Presbyterian church.
7:47
Speaker 1: They're coming from the Muslim community.
7:49
Speaker 2: And so strong action needs to be taken without always
7:52
Speaker 2: being defensive. It's not collective blame for the problem, but
7:56
Speaker 2: it is collective responsibility for helping to solve the problem.
8:01
Speaker 2: Not only would that help to counter radicalisation and to
8:04
Speaker 2: stop terrorism, it would also build trust with the rest
8:08
Speaker 2: of the Australian community. Here's some more of Dennis Richardson
8:11
Speaker 2: from last night.
8:13
Speaker 3: Mainstream Muslim leaders should be at the centre of any
8:19
Speaker 3: such discussion. Pretending the issue is not there simply leads
8:25
Speaker 3: to conspiracy theories and plays into the hands of extremists
8:30
Speaker 3: at the other end of the spectrum.
8:34
Speaker 2: None of that sounds like discrimination. It sounds to me
8:37
Speaker 2: like an adult conversation and God knows we're due for one.
8:41
Speaker 2: The most powerful part of Dennis Richardson's speech last night
8:45
Speaker 2: was when he reminded the audience that no one was
8:47
Speaker 2: too worried about the feelings of Christians when rugby player
8:51
Speaker 2: Israel Folau was quite literally run out of the country
8:54
Speaker 2: for posting a religious message online about homosexuals.
8:58
Speaker 1: And yet, compare with how this was handled.
9:02
Speaker 3: In November, 2023, an Islamic preacher posted on social media
9:10
Speaker 3: comments about Jewish people, which in mid 2025, a federal
9:18
Speaker 3: court judge found to be, and I quote, fundamentally racist
9:23
Speaker 3: and anti-Semitic and devastatingly offensive and insulting, unquote. When those
9:31
Speaker 3: comments were posted in 2023, they received barely any media
9:37
Speaker 3: attention at all. And indeed, I cannot find any media
9:43
Speaker 3: reference to those comments until some prominent Jewish Australians took
9:50
Speaker 3: the preacher to the federal court.
9:53
Speaker 2: If our politicians, media and corporate elites felt confident they
9:57
Speaker 2: could call out one Christian Islander without disciplining against all
10:01
Speaker 2: Christians or Islanders, why do they seem so afraid to
10:04
Speaker 2: call out Muslim extremists for fear of discriminating against all Muslims?
10:08
Speaker 2: Political correctness is supposed to prevent prejudice. But when we
10:12
Speaker 2: become so fearful of naming a problem that we can't
10:15
Speaker 2: properly diagnose the problem, Political correctness stops being a safeguard
10:19
Speaker 2: against prejudice and it becomes a blindfold. And a blindfold
10:23
Speaker 2: is a particularly poor piece of safety equipment when someone's
10:27
Speaker 2: trying to find a terrorist. That we haven't had another
10:30
Speaker 2: terror attack since Bondi is more by chance than by
10:33
Speaker 2: design because the threat is increasing while we're patting ourselves
10:38
Speaker 2: on the back for groping about for solutions in the dark.
10:45
Speaker 2: Immigration Minister Tony Burke will unveil Labor's new approach to
10:49
Speaker 2: immigration in a speech to be delivered at the National
10:52
Speaker 2: Press Club tomorrow.
10:54
Speaker 1: Tomorrow's speech comes six weeks after he was due to address.
10:57
Speaker 2: The press club but then cancelled at the last moment,
11:00
Speaker 2: reportedly because Cabinet colleagues feared his policy was too harsh.
11:05
Speaker 2: While Tony Burke has been trying to come up with
11:07
Speaker 2: a plan that pleases those who want cuts to immigration
11:09
Speaker 2: while also pleasing those who don't want cuts, One Nation
11:13
Speaker 2: has sown no such hesitation. They announced this week they'd
11:17
Speaker 2: cut student and temporary visas by around 750,000 over three years.
11:23
Speaker 2: And the Liberals, they're still working on their policy, but
11:25
Speaker 2: at least they've indicated they'll tie immigrant numbers to housing construction.
11:30
Speaker 1: So that just leaves Tony Burke.
11:33
Speaker 2: And Tony Burke gave us a foretaste of tomorrow's speech
11:35
Speaker 2: in Parliament today. I must say, the omens were not
11:39
Speaker 2: especially good. He managed to deploy the words numbers, levers,
11:43
Speaker 2: levels and systems with such impressive frequency, he was able
11:47
Speaker 2: to talk at considerable length without.
11:50
Speaker 1: Actually saying anything.
11:52
Speaker 2: It was less a policy announcement than a linguistic fog machine.
11:56
Speaker 1: Have a listen.
11:57
Speaker 5: We do need to get net overseas migration down. To
12:00
Speaker 5: be able to work through this, we need to be
12:03
Speaker 5: able to make sure that we deal with the numbers
12:09
Speaker 5: overall and do so in a sensible, targeted way that
12:14
Speaker 5: provides the easiest pathway through for the Australian economy. A
12:19
Speaker 5: whole lot of our immigration system simply functions virtue by
12:23
Speaker 5: applications being made and processing speeds is one of the
12:26
Speaker 5: only things with planning levels that we currently have available.
12:30
Speaker 5: The more tools that are available, the better we can
12:32
Speaker 5: target the system. The best form of outcome there will
12:37
Speaker 5: be if we are able to sort our way through
12:39
Speaker 5: for a legislative option. In the absence of that, there
12:42
Speaker 5: are still more levers that the government will be able
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Speaker 5: to use, and I'll be making those announcements tomorrow.
12:49
Speaker 2: I think Tony Burke plans on fixing the immigration problem
12:52
Speaker 2: by just putting the entire country to sleep. Joining me
12:54
Speaker 2: now is former Labor Treasurer Michael Kosta and GXO Strategies
12:58
Speaker 2: Director and former Chief of Staff to Bill Shorten, Cameron Milner. Michael,
13:02
Speaker 2: I'll start with you because you are a man in
13:04
Speaker 2: the know. What are you expecting from Tony Burke tomorrow?
13:09
Speaker 3: Zip, zero, nothing.
13:11
Speaker 6: Look, they're behind the eight ball on this. I mean,
13:14
Speaker 6: the fact of the matter is any administrative changes they
13:17
Speaker 6: make are really... playing catch-up. They're nowhere near where One
13:20
Speaker 6: Nation is on this issue. And I've got to say,
13:23
Speaker 6: the opposition itself was very silly not to engage in
13:27
Speaker 6: some sort of legislative outcome. They could have split the
13:30
Speaker 6: Labor Party on this issue. I think that was a
13:32
Speaker 6: very bad tactic on behalf of Andrew.
13:36
Speaker 6: Angus Taylor, I think that he should have sat down
13:40
Speaker 6: and put a package and agreed to that legislative framework.
13:43
Speaker 6: And you could have seen all held by loose in
13:46
Speaker 6: the Labor Party, particularly the left. But expect very little
13:49
Speaker 6: from tomorrow. It's smoke and mirrors. You know, administrative tinkering
13:53
Speaker 6: here and there is not going to solve the problem
13:55
Speaker 6: they face.
13:56
Speaker 2: Cameron, is there a sense that Labor have completely lost
13:59
Speaker 2: control of the immigration debate? And do you think Tony
14:03
Speaker 2: Burke can wrestle control back with his speech no matter
14:06
Speaker 2: what he says tomorrow?
14:08
Speaker 7: Well, I think Burke's about to do a Chalmers. I mean,
14:10
Speaker 7: Burke's going to do to migration what Chalmers did to
14:12
Speaker 7: the budget.
14:12
Speaker 1: I mean.
14:13
Speaker 7: add confusion, complexity and chaos to the system. For goodness sake,
14:17
Speaker 7: Australian voters are crying out for a lower number, not
14:20
Speaker 7: as low as Pauline Hanson's number, but certainly.
14:22
Speaker 4: A lower number.
14:23
Speaker 7: And Labor's failed year after year to even meet their
14:26
Speaker 7: own high number. And so how do we trust him?
14:28
Speaker 1: We can't.
14:29
Speaker 7: So to Michael's point, it's going to be lots of
14:31
Speaker 7: word salad, lots of assurances, lots of trust me from Tony.
14:34
Speaker 7: He's failed every single year as the migration minister with
14:38
Speaker 7: obfuscation and a failed system because he can't keep his
14:41
Speaker 7: own targets, which are still too high.
14:43
Speaker 2: All right, sticking with the topic of migration, universities have
14:46
Speaker 2: hit back at One Nation's call for a drastic cut.
14:49
Speaker 1: To student visas.
14:51
Speaker 2: Universities Australia Chief Executive Luke Shahi has accused One Nation
14:55
Speaker 2: of being in a race to the bottom and ripping
14:58
Speaker 2: revenue from universities. He says a vote for dramatically fewer
15:02
Speaker 2: international students is a vote for a poorer, less skilled Australia.
15:08
Speaker 2: One Nation's Colleen Harkins said their response was entirely predictable
15:12
Speaker 2: and that ever-growing international student numbers might serve university balance
15:16
Speaker 2: sheets and senior executives, but that doesn't mean it serves Australians. Now,
15:22
Speaker 2: international education did contribute over $ 53 billion to the Australian economy.
15:27
Speaker 2: That was in 24-25. And it made up over a
15:30
Speaker 2: quarter of total revenue for Australia's universities in 2024. So
15:35
Speaker 2: we're not talking about nothing. Michael, where do your sympathies
15:39
Speaker 2: lie in this debate?
15:41
Speaker 6: Well, I don't have much sympathy for the universities. I mean,
15:43
Speaker 6: they've basically failed as institutions. And we see that around
15:48
Speaker 6: sort of anti-Semitism and the ridiculous courses that they're promoting
15:53
Speaker 6: and having students pay for that lead to essentially unemployment
15:57
Speaker 6: and professional activism. So I don't have much sympathy for them.
16:01
Speaker 6: But I do, in terms of the economy, have some concerns.
16:04
Speaker 6: I think you can't just cut down university places and
16:08
Speaker 6: expect that you're going to get some miraculous change to
16:12
Speaker 6: the productivity of the country. The real issue with universities
16:15
Speaker 6: is the one that links to the previous issue, and
16:17
Speaker 6: that is people overstaying visas or doing courses that are
16:20
Speaker 6: of no value, and that's where the focus ought to be. Clearly,
16:24
Speaker 6: the university administrators don't want to lose their mega salaries,
16:28
Speaker 6: and they depend clearly on the cash flow that comes
16:30
Speaker 6: in from foreign students. But, you know, we shouldn't be
16:33
Speaker 6: throwing the baby out with the bathwater. We should just
16:35
Speaker 6: reform it and make sure it's focused.
16:37
Speaker 2: And, Cameron, that's where I think, no matter what the
16:39
Speaker 2: merits of the argument, most people... We'll look at the
16:42
Speaker 2: massive salaries for vice chancellors. They'll look at some of
16:45
Speaker 2: the slop coming out of our universities. They'll look at
16:47
Speaker 2: the anti-Israel encampments. And we could go on and on
16:51
Speaker 2: and on. And I don't think one nation can lose
16:55
Speaker 2: with this policy because there's so little sympathy for the universities.
16:58
Speaker 2: And I would argue that's entirely on the universities.
17:02
Speaker 1: Oh, absolutely.
17:03
Speaker 4: It's totally self-inflicted.
17:05
Speaker 7: I mean, these sandstone universities have let Palestinian camps, pro-Hammar stuff,
17:09
Speaker 7: you know, vile, violent Jewish students just for being Jewish
17:12
Speaker 7: on campus. I mean, you know, these are appalling institutions.
17:15
Speaker 7: And to your point, Michael, I mean, you know, PhDs
17:17
Speaker 7: in transgender dysphoria. I mean, for goodness sake. I mean,
17:20
Speaker 7: this is the problem we've got with the university sector.
17:22
Speaker 7: There's such elitists now that have no sympathy in the
17:25
Speaker 7: general community. But to your point, Michael, rather than blowing
17:28
Speaker 7: up the economy, that, geez, tertiary education, I mean, you know,
17:30
Speaker 7: we teach really well in Australia. is to stop the
17:33
Speaker 7: raiders and stop the overstayers and actually have a minister
17:36
Speaker 7: like Minister Burke, rather than making promises, actually cut down
17:39
Speaker 7: on these people and evict them, get them out of
17:40
Speaker 7: our country.
17:42
Speaker 2: Alright, remember Saddam Hussein's information minister who famously insisted Iraq
17:46
Speaker 2: was just fine even as the Americans were invading Baghdad
17:50
Speaker 2: right behind him? Well, Housing Minister Claire O'Neill was doing
17:53
Speaker 2: her best Baghdad Bob impersonation today, standing right in front
17:57
Speaker 2: of a collapsing property market and insisting it's all going
18:00
Speaker 2: exactly to plan.
18:02
Speaker 8: So we've got some really important kind of indicators telling
18:05
Speaker 8: us that we're going to see exactly what we want.
18:08
Speaker 8: And that is more first time buyers in the market
18:11
Speaker 8: and more new builds being supported by investor dollars, which
18:14
Speaker 8: is really where we want that money to go.
18:16
Speaker 1: Michael, she's having a lend of us, isn't she?
18:19
Speaker 6: Oh, she sure is. But listen, that title belongs to Chalmers.
18:23
Speaker 6: He's Baghdad Bob Chalmers, you know, I mean. We're going
18:26
Speaker 6: to see that next week when the rates go up,
18:28
Speaker 6: and we've been seeing it for months, and it's his
18:30
Speaker 6: policy that underpins the nonsense she's got to go out
18:33
Speaker 6: there and peddle. Look, the property market has collapsed. It
18:37
Speaker 6: hasn't moved smoothly downwards at a low rate, as was predicted,
18:41
Speaker 6: and then recovered. The real issue is renters and new homebuyers.
18:47
Speaker 6: You know, this policy was meant to get new people
18:50
Speaker 6: into the housing market, and it's failed on that course alone.
18:54
Speaker 6: The supply issue... They've done nothing to reach their targets.
18:57
Speaker 6: You know, we've got a government that's just focused on
19:00
Speaker 6: spin and that spin is coming now back in a
19:04
Speaker 6: way that really is going to make sure that these
19:06
Speaker 6: people are on the nose right across the board.
19:09
Speaker 2: Yeah, Michael, when it comes to Baghdad, Bob, I think
19:11
Speaker 2: we're spoiled for choice as to who could play the
19:13
Speaker 2: role in Canberra right now. Hey, before we go to
19:16
Speaker 2: a break, a Liberal member, Andrew Hastie, is unrelenting when
19:19
Speaker 2: it comes to his attacks on One Nation. The opposition
19:22
Speaker 2: frontbencher says One Nation is dragging Australian politics into the
19:25
Speaker 2: gutter with its personal attacks and he's accused the party
19:28
Speaker 2: of conducting what he calls US-style MAGA politics. This, of course,
19:33
Speaker 2: comes off the back of One Nation cartoon featuring Hastie,
19:36
Speaker 2: which has been addressed ad nauseum on this network, and
19:40
Speaker 2: more recently the comments of Pauline Hanson about the PM's
19:42
Speaker 2: mum and Indigenous Australians.
19:45
Speaker 1: But here's my question for you, Cameron.
19:48
Speaker 2: You know, it's been an ugly week and I think
19:50
Speaker 2: Pauline Hanson herself has acknowledged that.
19:52
Speaker 1: To a certain degree.
19:53
Speaker 2: But is there a certain irony in condemning personal attacks
19:57
Speaker 2: from Hanson while responding to Hanson by labelling her a liar,
20:02
Speaker 2: a coward and a MAGA, you know, proponent?
20:08
Speaker 7: Political hypocrisy is the industry in Canberra. I mean, let's
20:11
Speaker 7: face it. I mean, you know, the reality is that
20:14
Speaker 7: both major political parties have got their dirt units running
20:16
Speaker 7: over time. They're into a smear and fear campaign about
20:19
Speaker 7: One Nation because One Nation's actually doing well in the polls.
20:21
Speaker 7: And for goodness sake.
20:22
Speaker 4: Grow up, Andrew Hastie.
20:23
Speaker 7: I mean, if you want to be a politician, you
20:25
Speaker 7: want to be a leader, you want to be a
20:26
Speaker 7: prime minister, get a spine. I mean, the pressure that
20:29
Speaker 7: One Nation's putting him under, you know, is not MAGA,
20:32
Speaker 7: isn't the stuff from the UK. It's Australian homegrown because
20:35
Speaker 7: they're over.
20:36
Speaker 4: politicians thinking they can take a lend of us.
20:40
Speaker 1: Indeed. All right, gentlemen, thanks for joining me on the program.
20:42
Speaker 1: Great to chat. Stick around.
20:44
Speaker 2: Coming up after the break, Labor's renewable dream takes a
20:47
Speaker 2: devastating hit. After years of warning about coal, new data
20:52
Speaker 2: turns the tables on Chris Bowen.
20:54
Speaker 1: Stick around for more. That's after this.
20:58
Speaker 2: Well, Chris Bowen received a massive reality check today. New
21:03
Speaker 2: modelling has revealed that Labor will fall short of its 82%
21:06
Speaker 2: renewables by 2030 target by a whopping 30%. Here's our
21:12
Speaker 2: Energy Minister explaining the situation.
21:14
Speaker 9: Missed it by that much.
21:16
Speaker 2: LAUGHTER except nobody else is laughing. The reason for the
21:24
Speaker 2: shortfall is that despite all the taxpayer-funded subsidies, there just
21:28
Speaker 2: aren't enough green energy projects being built. In several states,
21:32
Speaker 2: less than one-tenth of the wind and solar capacity needed
21:35
Speaker 2: to reach the goal is actually being built. And to
21:38
Speaker 2: make matters worse, developers of those projects are struggling to
21:41
Speaker 2: secure deals with large energy users, deals needed to make
21:45
Speaker 2: them viable. all of which means Labor's 82% target is
21:49
Speaker 2: beginning to resemble one of those New Year's resolutions made
21:52
Speaker 2: with enormous confidence on January 1st and quietly abandoned somewhere
21:56
Speaker 2: about January 17. There's an even greater irony here, though,
22:01
Speaker 2: and that's that the less renewable energy we build.
22:04
Speaker 1: the more.
22:05
Speaker 2: Pressure there is on coal generators to remain open. So
22:09
Speaker 2: after spending years telling us coal is doomed, Chris Bowen
22:13
Speaker 2: is about to discover that the coal-fired power stations he's
22:15
Speaker 2: been trying.
22:16
Speaker 1: To replace are actually kind of useful.
22:19
Speaker 2: Joining me now is Shadow Veterans Affairs Minister and former
22:21
Speaker 2: Deputy Prime Minister, Nationals MP Michael McCormick.
22:25
Speaker 1: Michael, great to have you on the program. The government
22:28
Speaker 1: has spent.
22:29
Speaker 2: billions underwriting renewable projects. If developers still aren't building them,
22:34
Speaker 2: what does that tell you about the economics of Labor's
22:36
Speaker 2: energy transition?
22:38
Speaker 10: Well, it's all a fallacy, and the baddies in Get
22:40
Speaker 10: Smart were chaos. And what Chris Bowen has overseen has
22:44
Speaker 10: been chaos. in the energy sector, but in productivity. We've
22:49
Speaker 10: seen what's happened this week with Wyala. We've seen the
22:51
Speaker 10: mess in the Hunter. We cannot almost make anything in
22:56
Speaker 10: this country these days because of Chris Bowen's drive towards 82%
23:01
Speaker 10: renewables by 2030, which we now know is completely unattainable.
23:07
Speaker 11: And.
23:08
Speaker 4: you know, to miss it by as much as he did.
23:10
Speaker 10: Well, it's actually pretty good for Chris Bowen because, you know,
23:13
Speaker 10: just a few years ago he was talking up green hydrogen.
23:16
Speaker 10: Now he's running as far away from it as he
23:18
Speaker 10: possibly can.
23:19
Speaker 4: I mean, what a joke. What a complete and absolute joke.
23:23
Speaker 2: What does all of this mean for electricity reliability? I mean,
23:27
Speaker 2: if coal generators are being pushed towards closure while the
23:30
Speaker 2: replacement generation simply isn't arriving, where does the firm power
23:35
Speaker 2: come from?
23:37
Speaker 4: Well, who would know?
23:38
Speaker 10: We're going to have to sweat the coal-fired power stations
23:42
Speaker 10: for a lot longer. And, you know, we've heard for
23:45
Speaker 10: years that coal is the most expensive form of energy.
23:49
Speaker 10: We've heard for years that renewables are the cheapest, but
23:53
Speaker 10: they've been subsidised to the hilt. But meanwhile, you've got
23:56
Speaker 10: people out there, Mr and Mrs Average, as my mother-in-law
23:59
Speaker 10: calls them, who are paying through the neck for their
24:03
Speaker 10: energy bills. And she's right. I mean, she's absolutely 100% right.
24:07
Speaker 10: People can't afford to pay their power costs. They can't
24:10
Speaker 10: afford to fill their cars with fuel. They can't afford
24:14
Speaker 10: when they go to the groceries. And it all rolls
24:17
Speaker 10: into each other. And this is all on Labor's watch now.
24:21
Speaker 10: And there we've got Chris Bowen, a la Presidente, with
24:25
Speaker 10: 30 or so staff with his cop presidency, you know,
24:30
Speaker 10: spending where? In the order of somewhere about $ 150 million on.
24:34
Speaker 4: That folly and that fallacy. I mean, you cannot make
24:37
Speaker 4: this stuff up, James.
24:39
Speaker 2: Michael, did you just come on national television and say
24:42
Speaker 2: your mother-in-law was right?
24:44
Speaker 4: My mother-in-law's always right.
24:46
Speaker 7: I love my mother-in-law.
24:47
Speaker 4: Beverly Shore. She's a good lady.
24:48
Speaker 1: And she is. She's 100%.
24:50
Speaker 10: She's the sort of person who, you know, she pays
24:53
Speaker 10: her power bills.
24:54
Speaker 1: She's paid her taxes. She's worked hard all her life.
24:58
Speaker 1: She's still working, quite frankly.
24:59
Speaker 10: She does funerals.
25:02
Speaker 4: She's a civil celebrant.
25:04
Speaker 10: But I have to say she's also annoyed that she's
25:08
Speaker 10: now not going to get the private.
25:10
Speaker 4: Health insurance rebate.
25:11
Speaker 11: And, I mean.
25:12
Speaker 10: You know, Labor, every which way, they're driving pensioners, they're
25:17
Speaker 10: driving people, they're driving companies to the wall. And she's
25:20
Speaker 10: just emblematic of what's happening right across Australia and certainly
25:24
Speaker 10: regional Australia.
25:25
Speaker 1: You're a good man, Michael McCormick, and you're certainly in
25:27
Speaker 1: the good books tonight, that's for sure. All right, just
25:30
Speaker 1: on Chris Bowen.
25:32
Speaker 2: Taxpayers have poured millions into making him the COP31 president
25:36
Speaker 2: of negotiations, a title he's very proud of. But today, Turkey,
25:40
Speaker 2: who share the COP31 presidency with Australia as a compromise
25:44
Speaker 2: for it being held in Turkey rather than Adelaide, as
25:46
Speaker 2: Bowen had wanted, well, they made it clear that they,
25:50
Speaker 2: not Chris Bowen, would have final say on decisions at
25:53
Speaker 2: the conference. Here's what they said. They said Turkey and
25:56
Speaker 2: Australia are not co-presidents. Turkey is the president of COP31.
26:00
Speaker 2: Australia is the president of negotiations. We are in consultation
26:04
Speaker 2: with Australia, but the final decision lies with the COP31 presidency.
26:09
Speaker 2: That's a bit embarrassing for Chris Bowen, is it not?
26:12
Speaker 2: That's a public takedown.
26:14
Speaker 4: Well, let's cop that, Chris Bowen.
26:16
Speaker 10: We've spent all this money, we've done all the work,
26:19
Speaker 10: we've done the hard yards, our taxpayers have financed it,
26:22
Speaker 10: and now we have to cop that.
26:25
Speaker 2: Farmers are facing a horror harvest this year thanks to
26:28
Speaker 2: Labor's decision to slow down backpacker visa approvals. And on
26:33
Speaker 2: top of that, you've got the fresh surge in diesel prices.
26:35
Speaker 2: That's not helping either. Just talk me through the problems
26:39
Speaker 2: that our farmers are facing and tell me what should
26:41
Speaker 2: be done.
26:43
Speaker 10: Well, what should be done is ministerial direction 119 as
26:45
Speaker 10: far as as far as Tony Burke is concerned, needs
26:50
Speaker 10: to be reversed. He needs to get a hurry on
26:54
Speaker 10: with those holiday visa workers situation there. One in seven
27:00
Speaker 10: regional Australian workers are on a holiday visa, holiday working visa.
27:05
Speaker 10: And that's... You've got the National Farmers Federation President Hamish
27:09
Speaker 10: McIntyre out there desperately worried We've got fruit that's going
27:12
Speaker 10: to need to be picked. It's going to rot if
27:14
Speaker 10: we don't have this situation hastened. We've got a booming
27:19
Speaker 10: canola crop, one of the best I've ever seen.
27:22
Speaker 4: They're talking it up, the.
27:23
Speaker 10: Grain harvest, the fruit harvest, the mangoes in the Northern Territory.
27:28
Speaker 10: But wherever you go, right across Australia, we need those
27:30
Speaker 10: holiday visa workers. They're not happening. We've got Tony Burke
27:34
Speaker 10: out of witness protection. He's going to be finally unleashed
27:37
Speaker 10: on the National Press Club Hopefully he's going to make
27:39
Speaker 10: the right announcements tomorrow, but I'm not holding my breath, James.
27:43
Speaker 2: Right, before I let you go, let's finish on a
27:45
Speaker 2: positive note. Last week, the Coalition teamed up with the
27:48
Speaker 2: crossbench in the Senate to block Labor's $ 5, 000 cap on
27:52
Speaker 2: health care for our veterans. That's a big win, Michael,
27:55
Speaker 2: and one you were especially passionate about.
27:56
Speaker 1: I know that.
27:58
Speaker 10: Well, they voted 35-20, came back to the House of
28:00
Speaker 10: Representatives this week and they voted 86-46 to just kick
28:04
Speaker 10: it into the long grass, James. It's not a good
28:05
Speaker 10: story for our veterans at all. In fact, it's a
28:08
Speaker 10: shameful trashing of democracy. It is absolutely wrong. Our veterans
28:13
Speaker 10: deserve better. This $ 5, 000 arbitrary figure placed on their allied health,
28:17
Speaker 10: their psychological health, their physical health has been once again
28:22
Speaker 10: ignored by this government which refuses to listen. The cap
28:25
Speaker 10: needs to be scrapped, the minister needs to be sacked
28:27
Speaker 10: and they need to put a minister in there who
28:29
Speaker 10: shows some semblance of empathy for our veterans who've protected
28:33
Speaker 10: this nation and its people.
28:35
Speaker 4: It's simply not good enough.
28:36
Speaker 1: Very well said. Very well said.
28:38
Speaker 2: Appreciate you coming on the program tonight. All right, stick around.
28:41
Speaker 2: After the break, the war in Iran was meant to
28:43
Speaker 2: last five weeks. Six months on, the bill is staggering
28:48
Speaker 2: and climbing. Plus, it's the five-year anniversary of the AUKUS pact.
28:52
Speaker 2: I'll ask Peter Jennings what it's achieved right after this.
28:59
Speaker 1: Welcome back to the program.
29:00
Speaker 2: The war in Iran has now blown past the six-month mark,
29:03
Speaker 2: despite Donald Trump promising back in February... It would last
29:07
Speaker 2: five weeks, and today the financial cost has come into focus.
29:11
Speaker 2: The Pentagon has revealed that so far more than 53
29:14
Speaker 2: billion Australian dollars have been spent on the war, and
29:17
Speaker 2: that price tag is growing by as much as $ 4
29:20
Speaker 2: billion a month. Iran has adapted its attacks to wear
29:23
Speaker 2: down US military assets and to wear out the US taxpayer.
29:28
Speaker 2: The Trump administration currently estimates it will need at least
29:31
Speaker 2: five years to replace the missile interceptors it's used defending
29:35
Speaker 2: its military bases. Just last week, the US used up
29:39
Speaker 2: more than 70 of its high-end air defence interceptors responding
29:44
Speaker 2: to an Iranian missile attack on one of its bases
29:47
Speaker 2: in Jordan. So that's 70 of these missiles in a day.
29:50
Speaker 2: To give you some perspective, Lockheed Martin, who manufacture the interceptors,
29:54
Speaker 2: they're currently producing them at about the rate of 50
29:56
Speaker 2: a month. Joining me now for more on this is
29:59
Speaker 2: News24 defence analyst Peter Jennings. Peter, this cannot go on indefinitely,
30:05
Speaker 2: can it? How much pressure is this putting on the
30:08
Speaker 2: Trump administration? Iran are playing this quite smart.
30:14
Speaker 12: They are, and the Revolutionary Guard has no place else
30:17
Speaker 12: to go, James, so they will continue to fight to
30:20
Speaker 12: the last. Look, I think there are two sort of
30:22
Speaker 12: pressure points to think about here. $ 54 billion is a
30:26
Speaker 12: lot of money, but put that in the context of
30:28
Speaker 12: the President's bid for a $ 1. 4 trillion defence budget, T,
30:33
Speaker 12: trillion dollar defence.
30:34
Speaker 4: Budget in the United States this year.
30:37
Speaker 12: They need to work out how to make missile interceptors faster,
30:41
Speaker 12: but the American economy needs to ramp up to make
30:43
Speaker 12: that happen. The real problem is not so much on
30:46
Speaker 12: the technology end. It's on the fact that the American
30:50
Speaker 12: population doesn't want to be fighting a significant war in
30:53
Speaker 12: the Middle East. They have turned their mind against that
30:57
Speaker 12: from the days of the Afghanistan conflict. And Trump has
31:00
Speaker 12: come right up against that at precisely the time when
31:03
Speaker 12: he's trying to help the Republicans hang on to control
31:06
Speaker 12: of the Congress in the midterm elections, which happen in
31:09
Speaker 12: early November. So what I think is going to happen
31:12
Speaker 12: is we're seeing... to some extent, a pause in military operations.
31:17
Speaker 12: That's what the Americans are trying to deliver. And then
31:20
Speaker 12: I think we will see a significant ramping up of
31:22
Speaker 12: the conflict after the midterm vote at the beginning of November.
31:27
Speaker 12: We still need a strategy for victory, though, and I
31:31
Speaker 12: don't see that.
31:31
Speaker 4: Coming out of the White House at this stage.
31:34
Speaker 2: Just on reports that the US is churning through munitions,
31:38
Speaker 2: I mean, when I read those reports today, my first
31:41
Speaker 2: thought was Xi Jinping would be sitting back watching this
31:45
Speaker 2: very closely, would he not?
31:47
Speaker 4: Absolutely.
31:48
Speaker 12: I mean, no one is watching this conflict more closely
31:51
Speaker 12: than the Chinese, also the war in Ukraine and learning
31:55
Speaker 12: the lessons from that. Something that I can tell you
31:58
Speaker 12: is very significant is that the Chinese are dramatically ramping
32:01
Speaker 12: up their military technology production. They've doubled their combat aircraft
32:05
Speaker 12: production just in the last couple of years and will
32:09
Speaker 12: continue to do so. America is now You know, the
32:13
Speaker 12: wheels are slowly grinding to see defence industry become faster
32:18
Speaker 12: and more capable in the United States. But they're a
32:22
Speaker 12: long way behind, sort of stuck in peacetime production mode.
32:27
Speaker 12: And that doesn't seem to be what the world needs
32:29
Speaker 12: as we move into a much more dangerous time in
32:31
Speaker 12: the Asia-Pacific region.
32:33
Speaker 2: And just before we move on, my other thought reading
32:36
Speaker 2: all of this was if the US can barely keep
32:39
Speaker 2: up with missile demand for their own military, Australia should
32:43
Speaker 2: actually get serious about munitions for ourselves, shouldn't we? Because
32:47
Speaker 2: we cannot rely on them being provided by the US.
32:52
Speaker 12: That, I think, is one of the most obvious lessons
32:54
Speaker 12: that has come out from the conflicts over recent years
32:58
Speaker 12: for Australia.
32:58
Speaker 4: And it's a lesson we're not learning.
33:00
Speaker 12: I am astonished at how we just seem to be
33:03
Speaker 12: mired in thinking about defence production and five and ten
33:07
Speaker 12: year increments rather than looking to work out what we
33:10
Speaker 12: can do that's cheap but large in volume, large in numbers.
33:15
Speaker 4: And there are, that's drones, I guess.
33:17
Speaker 12: There's technologies like that which we could be producing locally.
33:22
Speaker 12: But defence has not turned its mind quickly enough to
33:25
Speaker 12: work out how to achieve that.
33:28
Speaker 2: A US delegation to Australia comprised of key Republicans has
33:32
Speaker 2: urged the Albanese government to hurry up and terminate the
33:35
Speaker 2: Chinese lease of the port of Darwin. They've also said
33:39
Speaker 2: we need to lift defence spending to at least 3.5%
33:41
Speaker 2: of GDP. Currently it sits at around 2%. Why has
33:47
Speaker 2: the Albanese government not sorted out the port of Darwin yet?
33:50
Speaker 2: They promised to do this quite some time ago.
33:53
Speaker 1: We've heard nothing.
33:54
Speaker 2: How urgent is it and how do you explain the
33:57
Speaker 2: delay in dealing with this?
34:00
Speaker 12: It's easy to explain the delay. Albanese doesn't want to
34:04
Speaker 12: fight with Beijing. This is less to do with the
34:08
Speaker 12: company that's leasing the port and more to do with
34:10
Speaker 12: the political reality that Beijing understands that Having that presence
34:15
Speaker 12: in Darwin is actually slowing down and complicating the ability
34:18
Speaker 12: of the US Marines and the Australian Defence Force to
34:22
Speaker 12: make more use of the port. So Albo will bring
34:25
Speaker 12: it up in the context of the election campaign, but
34:27
Speaker 12: he doesn't really want to have the tough fight with China.
34:31
Speaker 12: And to hear this expression of concern from those American
34:35
Speaker 12: senators in town, I think is America's polite way of saying.
34:41
Speaker 4: To us, Australia, you need to get on with this.
34:44
Speaker 12: And the Prime Minister would be smart to act when
34:47
Speaker 12: the advice is polite before the Trump blowtorch gets turned
34:51
Speaker 12: on to what I think is going to be an
34:52
Speaker 12: increasing problem from an American perspective.
34:55
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I mean, as afraid as our government might
34:57
Speaker 2: be of the Trump blowtorch, as you put it, they
35:00
Speaker 2: should be more afraid that Xi Jinping might make a
35:03
Speaker 2: move in our part of the world sooner rather than
35:05
Speaker 2: later and find us completely with our pants down. On
35:09
Speaker 2: that topic, it's five years since, who was it, Joe Biden,
35:13
Speaker 2: Boris Johnson and Scott Morrison stood together in the White
35:17
Speaker 2: House and announced the AUKUS pact.
35:19
Speaker 1: Do you think those.
35:20
Speaker 2: Three men would be happy with where the AUKUS pact
35:23
Speaker 2: stands five years on?
35:25
Speaker 4: Oh, they shouldn't be.
35:26
Speaker 12: I think they certainly had an expectation that Australia would
35:29
Speaker 12: be spending more money and that things would have moved
35:32
Speaker 12: a lot faster. You know, the one shred of positive
35:35
Speaker 12: news is we'll have from next year an American-flagged nuclear
35:39
Speaker 12: submarine operating out of HMAS Stirling in the west.
35:43
Speaker 4: That's good. That builds deterrence.
35:45
Speaker 12: But the AUKUS-class nuclear submarines seem to be as far
35:49
Speaker 12: away into the future as ever. Most of their crews
35:52
Speaker 12: wouldn't even be born yet, James. So.
35:55
Speaker 4: It's too slow.
35:55
Speaker 12: It's too slow for the build-up of strategic problems that
35:59
Speaker 12: we're facing in the region. And Defence and our government
36:02
Speaker 12: has failed to understand that they need to be doing
36:04
Speaker 12: things sooner. What can we do to strengthen the Defence
36:07
Speaker 12: Force in the second half of this decade? Not the
36:11
Speaker 12: second half of the 2030s. That's the AUKUS problem. And
36:15
Speaker 12: so I think five years in, I'm only giving it
36:19
Speaker 12: just barely a pass. we should have moved much faster,
36:23
Speaker 12: the government should have been more engaged. One gets the
36:26
Speaker 12: sense that their heart really isn't in it, James, and
36:29
Speaker 12: the opposition to AUKUS on the left, including inside the
36:33
Speaker 12: Labor Party, continues to build, and no-one in government has
36:36
Speaker 12: the stomach to actually push back against that and say
36:38
Speaker 12: why it's still necessary.
36:40
Speaker 2: Just really quickly before I let you go, I want
36:42
Speaker 2: to get your thoughts on what I spoke about at
36:44
Speaker 2: the top of the show, former ASIO boss Dennis Richardson's
36:47
Speaker 2: call for a debate... about the role of Islamic extremism
36:50
Speaker 2: in Australia's anti-Semitism crisis. Did it shock you that the
36:54
Speaker 2: Royal Commission wasn't really that curious about Islamic extremism?
36:59
Speaker 12: Yes, it's the extremism that is not allowed to say
37:04
Speaker 12: its name at this point. You know, I don't often
37:07
Speaker 12: or indeed always agree with Dennis Richardson, but he's absolutely
37:10
Speaker 12: spot on on this occasion. This is a discussion we
37:12
Speaker 12: need to have. We need to have it with the
37:14
Speaker 12: Australian Muslim community as well. we've got to stop tiptoeing
37:19
Speaker 12: around this problem because, as we know from the current
37:22
Speaker 12: head of ASIO, there continue to be a significant number
37:25
Speaker 12: of terror plots which ASIO is trying to prevent. So
37:28
Speaker 12: the problem hasn't gone away and we've got to get
37:30
Speaker 12: serious about discussing it.
37:32
Speaker 1: Peter Jennings, great to chat. Thanks for coming on the program.
37:35
Speaker 2: All right, we're going to go to a break, but
37:37
Speaker 2: stick around because after the break, an AI actress faces
37:40
Speaker 2: backlash in Hollywood. I can't imagine why. And Ed Sheeran
37:45
Speaker 2: loses every one of his support acts. They're upset they
37:48
Speaker 2: can't use his stage to hate on Israel. That and
37:51
Speaker 2: more with my panel after the break. This week, we
37:58
Speaker 2: were warned that AI could wipe out humanity.
38:02
Speaker 1: It could also wipe out Hollywood. See what I did there?
38:06
Speaker 2: UK production company Particle 6 has developed an AI actress
38:09
Speaker 2: called Tilly Norwood, who will soon star in a feature film.
38:15
Speaker 2: But if it makes money at the box office and
38:17
Speaker 2: if audiences can't tell the difference between an AI-generated star
38:21
Speaker 2: like Tilly Norwood and a real-life actress like Scarlett Johansson,
38:25
Speaker 2: then Hollywood may have a rather serious problem. In fact,
38:28
Speaker 2: Two Time Academy Award-winning actress Emily Blunt may have already
38:32
Speaker 2: provided the definitive review of Hollywood's future. She was asked
38:36
Speaker 2: about AI star Tilly Norwood and her response?
38:39
Speaker 1: We're screwed.
38:41
Speaker 2: And it's not just Hollywood that should be worried. NBC
38:44
Speaker 2: decided to conduct a serious interview with the AI actress
38:48
Speaker 2: Tilly Norwood, apparently in the hope that if you put
38:50
Speaker 2: an AI actress in front of the cameras and ask
38:52
Speaker 2: her questions, no one will notice that she doesn't actually exist.
38:57
Speaker 1: Have a look.
38:58
Speaker 4: Hi, I'm Tilly Norwood.
39:00
Speaker 13: Tilly's debut last September immediately sparked backlash and fears that
39:04
Speaker 13: AI could take jobs away from human actors. Stars like
39:08
Speaker 13: Emily Blunt calling Tilly really, really scary.
39:11
Speaker 1: Most of the reaction stung a bit, but Emily Blunt's
39:13
Speaker 1: was different. She wasn't being cruel. She was genuinely frightened.
39:17
Speaker 11: My purpose is to be a creative tool, not a threat.
39:20
Speaker 2: Let's bring in the panel, the real-life Gemma Tognini of
39:23
Speaker 2: GT Communications and 100% human News24 contributor Caroline DeRusso.
39:30
Speaker 1: Gemma, I don't know if.
39:31
Speaker 2: You watched that NBC interview. We showed some of the
39:35
Speaker 2: AI actress there. What we didn't show viewers was the
39:39
Speaker 2: TV host interviewing this AI figure as if it was
39:44
Speaker 2: a legit human. did you find it all fascinating or
39:48
Speaker 2: kind of disturbing?
39:49
Speaker 1: Oh, no, it's terrifying.
39:51
Speaker 11: It is the robots are here. It's, you know, it's
39:55
Speaker 11: Arnold Schwarzenegger. It's all of those things. It is, you know,
40:00
Speaker 11: when are we going to learn or decide what the
40:02
Speaker 11: line is? I mean, I have a very passionate view
40:04
Speaker 11: about AI and the use as a creative tool, I think,
40:07
Speaker 11: you know, no computer can ever substitute for the wonder
40:10
Speaker 11: and the nuance and the beauty that can be created
40:14
Speaker 11: by the human mind and the human soul. I've stood
40:16
Speaker 11: in front of various, I've been lucky enough to travel
40:19
Speaker 11: a little bit in and stood in front of things
40:22
Speaker 11: that humans have created from human soul and from the
40:25
Speaker 11: you know from our our abilities uh whether you believe
40:29
Speaker 11: that's you know heaven designated or not i do not
40:32
Speaker 11: believe a computer could ever manufacture that i think this
40:35
Speaker 11: whole thing is terrifying i think it will not end
40:37
Speaker 11: well uh if i was in you know hollywood's so
40:41
Speaker 11: busy lecturing us about all manner of things maybe they
40:43
Speaker 11: should look in their own backyard for a change and
40:45
Speaker 11: deal with this one.
40:46
Speaker 2: What I found so strange, Caroline, was watching NBC participating
40:51
Speaker 2: in their own extinction. Because did it not occur to them,
40:55
Speaker 2: if you can interview a fake subject and pull that off, well,
40:58
Speaker 2: could the interview not be conducted by a fake host?
41:03
Speaker 1: Absolutely, it could be.
41:04
Speaker 9: But more problematic, I suppose, for the media outlets is
41:08
Speaker 9: if all of these actors and actresses are AI... Well,
41:12
Speaker 9: then they've got no gossip.
41:14
Speaker 1: They've got no.
41:15
Speaker 12: Scandals to report on.
41:16
Speaker 1: They've got no one. We don't know who's going to... Excellent.
41:19
Speaker 9: Are these AI figures going to go to rehab? Are
41:23
Speaker 9: they going to get divorced? Are they going to do
41:25
Speaker 9: all those things which feed this voracious 24-hour gossip and
41:31
Speaker 9: celebrity news cycle? So if I was NBC, yes, I
41:35
Speaker 9: would be worried about the hosts becoming AI, but I
41:38
Speaker 9: would also be worried about what are you going to
41:40
Speaker 9: be putting on your pages or what are you going
41:42
Speaker 9: to be putting on your web page, more to the point,
41:45
Speaker 9: if we don't have real celebrities? Because then we don't
41:47
Speaker 9: have all the dramas that go around with them and
41:49
Speaker 9: that's how they make their money.
41:51
Speaker 1: That's a very good point. This is why I like
41:53
Speaker 1: talking to you, ladies. You always come up with a
41:56
Speaker 1: left-field angle. We aim to please. Let's talk about Ed Sheeran.
42:00
Speaker 1: We have to talk about Ed Sheeran.
42:01
Speaker 2: He would rather we weren't, but alas, he's in the
42:05
Speaker 2: middle of a sold-out tour of the US, but it's
42:08
Speaker 2: a lonely tour and increasingly looking like it might not
42:11
Speaker 2: be able to continue. His promoter, the company running the show,
42:15
Speaker 2: decided to boot American rapper... Macklemore from the tour as
42:19
Speaker 2: a support act after he went on stage and led
42:22
Speaker 2: the crowd in shouts of free Palestine.
42:24
Speaker 1: Here's what happened.
42:26
Speaker 14: One of the reasons why I wanted to come on
42:28
Speaker 14: this tour was because I wanted to stand up here
42:33
Speaker 14: on stages and stadiums across America and say two words
42:38
Speaker 14: that are very near and dear to my heart, free Palestine.
42:46
Speaker 1: I said free Palestine.
42:51
Speaker 2: So now all four of Ed Sheeran's other support acts
42:54
Speaker 2: have quit the tour in support of Macklemore and of Palestine,
42:58
Speaker 2: and Ed's touring band have quit as well. Gemma, the
43:03
Speaker 2: thing about Ed Sheeran is he's always been free of
43:05
Speaker 2: any kind of controversy or politicisation. He's stayed neutral everywhere.
43:10
Speaker 2: He's practically, you know, Switzerland with a nice voice. But
43:15
Speaker 2: you just can't escape politics anymore, really, can you?
43:18
Speaker 1: Do you feel sorry for him? Not at all.
43:19
Speaker 11: I don't feel sorry for him at all. Michael Moore
43:22
Speaker 11: is the artist who dressed up in an appalling anti-Semitic effigy,
43:28
Speaker 11: I guess, like the, you know, dark hair, hook nose
43:31
Speaker 11: in previous performances. He has form in this area so
43:35
Speaker 11: Ed Sheeran knew exactly who he was going on tour
43:37
Speaker 11: with but here's the thing right artists talk about freedom
43:40
Speaker 11: uh so when it's their own um anti-semitic words or
43:45
Speaker 11: anything else that that is found unacceptable and and is
43:48
Speaker 11: counted they talk about uh freedom but when it's the
43:50
Speaker 11: other side of the void you know when they're doing
43:52
Speaker 11: the cancelling like this is Macklemore experiencing what uh you
43:58
Speaker 11: know Jewish artists have experienced I'm not saying two wrongs
44:01
Speaker 11: make a right what I'm saying is that Simply, and
44:03
Speaker 11: if you read Robert Kraft, who's the owner of the stadium,
44:06
Speaker 11: who said, you know what, he's not playing at my stadium.
44:08
Speaker 11: He gets to do that because he owns the joint.
44:10
Speaker 11: But if you read his statement, he's opening a dialogue.
44:14
Speaker 11: He is saying, I am not against... you know, peace
44:18
Speaker 11: and self-determination for people who've been suffering. What I am
44:21
Speaker 11: against is one-sided narrative, a lack of understanding or an
44:25
Speaker 11: acknowledgement that Hamas is a globally designated terror organisation and
44:29
Speaker 11: anti-Semitic tropes, which this artist is known for. That's what
44:33
Speaker 11: he's against. And he opened the door for a dialogue.
44:35
Speaker 11: And I've seen Ed Sheeran twice in concert. I haven't
44:38
Speaker 11: heard of any of the others. Like, who cares who
44:40
Speaker 11: they are? They've quit, you know, great Pyrrhic victory there.
44:44
Speaker 11: No one's ever heard of you. No one's going to
44:45
Speaker 11: hear of you. But if Ed Sheeran thought this wasn't
44:47
Speaker 11: going to go down this way, then he's obviously a
44:49
Speaker 11: very good artist, but he's not very SMART.
44:52
Speaker 1: What's your take, Caroline?
44:55
Speaker 9: Well, it'd be very interesting to see what sits, obviously,
44:59
Speaker 9: in the contracts behind all of this stuff, which none
45:02
Speaker 9: of us will ever know. But, you know, you've now
45:05
Speaker 9: got these people who have all walked off and I
45:08
Speaker 9: hope that they can pay their bills with their solidarity.
45:10
Speaker 9: I just, you know, yes, there is freedom of speech. Yes,
45:15
Speaker 9: you can do all of those things. And we have
45:17
Speaker 9: had this conversation so many times. You are not free
45:20
Speaker 9: from consequences. And when you are working in an environment,
45:24
Speaker 9: this is your job. You're at the office, essentially. There
45:28
Speaker 9: are rules around what people do at the office. And
45:31
Speaker 9: some people's office might be a skyscraper and their office
45:35
Speaker 9: just happens.
45:36
Speaker 1: To be a stadium.
45:38
Speaker 9: But there are still rules. It is still essentially a
45:43
Speaker 9: private event. It's a work event.
45:45
Speaker 1: So I'm not surprised... you.
45:46
Speaker 9: Know, that he got booted in the first place. And
45:50
Speaker 9: if the others want to walk off in solidarity, well,
45:52
Speaker 9: off you trot. Like Gemma said, I've never heard of
45:54
Speaker 9: any of these people. And Ed Sheeran, a good bit
45:58
Speaker 9: of advice, you know, you lay with dogs, you're going
46:00
Speaker 9: to get fleas, mate.
46:01
Speaker 11: As my nonna used to say, you lay down with dogs,
46:03
Speaker 11: you start tobacco.
46:05
Speaker 9: Yeah.
46:06
Speaker 2: I'm not going to try and match your Italian accents.
46:09
Speaker 2: You talked about changing the rules. Melbourne Lord Mayor Nick
46:12
Speaker 2: Rees is pretty upset that the Victorian government have changed
46:15
Speaker 2: the rules on begging. They've decriminalised it. He's upset that
46:19
Speaker 2: they didn't actually consult the Melbourne Council because though Nicholas
46:25
Speaker 2: Rees is in favour of the decriminalisation of begging, he's
46:28
Speaker 2: now got a problem. How do they move beggars on? Gemma,
46:33
Speaker 2: a bit of a foot in both camps for the
46:35
Speaker 2: Lord Mayor there.
46:36
Speaker 11: I want to take a slide.
46:37
Speaker 1: I don't mind.
46:37
Speaker 11: I like Nick Rees. He's a good guy, politics aside.
46:40
Speaker 11: But what I want to say about this is slightly different,
46:42
Speaker 11: if you'll indulge me. The mark of a civilised society
46:45
Speaker 11: is how we treat our most vulnerable. The issue shouldn't
46:48
Speaker 11: be is it criminal or is it not criminal.
46:50
Speaker 1: The issue should be.
46:51
Speaker 11: How as a society have we ended up with this
46:53
Speaker 11: level of disenfranchisement, this level of poverty in Australia? There
46:58
Speaker 11: are myriad reasons, no doubt, but when the argument is
47:01
Speaker 11: so surface level about how do we get these people
47:03
Speaker 11: out of sight and out of mind, how do we
47:05
Speaker 11: charge them, how do we move them on, wrong conversation.
47:07
Speaker 11: It's like the conversation we've been having about young people
47:10
Speaker 11: and the age of criminality and all.
47:12
Speaker 1: That sort of stuff.
47:13
Speaker 11: Why are we not talking about failing a generation? Why
47:15
Speaker 11: are we not talking about falling standards of education, parenting,
47:18
Speaker 11: all of that sort of stuff? The fact is the
47:20
Speaker 11: Victorian government from Carol to Jacinta Allen to Dan Andrews
47:25
Speaker 11: or whatever, they have broken that state and this is
47:29
Speaker 11: all on them. These people need our empathy.
47:32
Speaker 1: They need our help.
47:34
Speaker 11: And I would say to my conservative fellow travellers, you know,
47:38
Speaker 11: the conservative... side of politics used to be the side
47:41
Speaker 11: that brought solutions to the table for these social problems.
47:44
Speaker 11: We have a history of leading social reform. Somehow that
47:47
Speaker 11: got co-opted by the political left and not in a
47:49
Speaker 11: good way. This is a problem that all Australians should
47:52
Speaker 11: be interested in solving.
47:54
Speaker 2: We've only got about 30 seconds left, Caroline. I agree
47:57
Speaker 2: with Gemma. The problem is how we've got so many
47:59
Speaker 2: beggars in the first place, but.
48:01
Speaker 1: We do have them. What should the government do or
48:04
Speaker 1: the council rather?
48:06
Speaker 9: Well, the government should, like Gemma said, there should be
48:08
Speaker 9: real solutions. Like just decriminalising something doesn't make an.
48:12
Speaker 1: Issue go away.
48:13
Speaker 9: These people still exist and they still need to be
48:18
Speaker 9: treated with decency. It's about how you do that. And
48:21
Speaker 9: Nick Rees can get upset about it, but, mate, it's
48:24
Speaker 9: his problem as much as the government's.
48:26
Speaker 1: Good point. Very good point.
48:28
Speaker 2: All right, thank you for the chat. Appreciate it. That's
48:30
Speaker 2: all I've got time for tonight.
48:32
Speaker 1: But stick around. Up right now is Shari Markson. Good night.