Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Strictly Come Hamster - Fourth Doctor Special (featuring Toby Hadoke, Ioan Morris, Matt Cox & Paul Cresser)

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Strictly Come Hamster - Fourth Doctor Special (featuring Toby Hadoke, Ioan Morris, Matt Cox & Paul Cresser) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:00
  I say, what a wonderful Butler. He's so violent.
• 0:02
  Hello. I've called the doctor.
• 0:05
  That's Ramana. That's Duggan.
• 0:07
  You must be the Countess Scullioni.
• 0:09
  And this is clearly a delightful Louis Can's chairman.
• 0:12
  I sit here and I say, haven't they worn well?
• 0:14
  Thank you, Helen. That'll be all.
• 0:15
  Doctor, you're being very pleasant with me.
• 0:19
  Well, I'm a very pleasant fellow.
• 0:22
  But I didn't invite you here for social reasons.
• 0:25
  Yes, I could see that the moment you didn't ask me to have a
• 0:27
  well, I will have a drink. How you come to mention it?
• 0:28
  Yes, to come in, everybody. Momana, sit down over there.
• 0:32
  Duggan. Now, Duggan, you sit there.
• 0:37
  Do sit down if you want to count.
• 0:38
  Oh, all right. Two thieves enter the Louvre
• 0:41
  gallery and come out with a bracelet.
• 0:45
  Couldn't you think of anything more interesting to steal?
• 0:48
  Well, I just thought it was awfully, pretty terribly unusual
• 0:50
  design. Of course it would have been
• 0:52
  much nicer to was still in one of the pictures, but I've tried
• 0:55
  that before and all sorts of alarms go off which disturbs the
• 0:57
  concentration. Yes it would.
• 1:00
  So you stole the bracelet simply because it's pretty?
• 1:04
  Yes. Well, I think it is, don't you?
• 1:07
  Yeah. My dear, I don't think he's as
• 1:09
  stupid as he seems. My dear, nobody could be as
• 1:12
  stupid as he seems. Welcome back to Strictly Come
• 1:51
  Hamster. My name is Joe Ford and we are
• 1:55
  on the long road. Now to the finale.
• 1:58
  All of the seasons have now been covered spectacularly badly with
• 2:04
  eccentric results. And today we are coming together
• 2:10
  to I think do the most difficult task of all.
• 2:15
  And that is to try and determine what is so amazing about the 4th
• 2:20
  Doctor. His era, Tom Baker.
• 2:23
  And not the best because it's never the best on Strictly, but
• 2:27
  the our favorite from the 4th Doctors era.
• 2:32
  And in order to do this, I have assembled some of the most
• 2:36
  beautiful men I know. Yes, or you can all look
• 2:39
  bashful. And because some people here
• 2:42
  have never done a Strictly, others have done plenty and some
• 2:46
  are somewhere in between, I am just going to throw it out to
• 2:50
  each person. Let us know who you are and give
• 2:53
  us your one word. That's a tricky 1 to summarise
• 2:59
  for you, the 4th Doctor and his era.
• 3:02
  But let's say the 4th Doctor as a as a character.
• 3:05
  And I will throw it out to Joan. Hello, Joan.
• 3:10
  Hello, how are you doing? My name is Joan Morris.
• 3:13
  I am a Welsh man and I'm very pleased that that you threw to
• 3:18
  me first, so I will go with definitive for Tom Baker as the
• 3:23
  4th Doctor. That is the first word that came
• 3:26
  to mind, and I'm glad nobody else gets to take it.
• 3:30
  It has a pretty good word at that.
• 3:33
  Matt. Welcome to Strictly Co hamster.
• 3:37
  Who are you? That is a very good question.
• 3:40
  I'm, I'm Matt Cox. No laughing.
• 3:42
  Anybody on on the new kid around here?
• 3:45
  And my one word to describe the 4th Doctor would be batshit.
• 3:49
  Batshit. Batshit.
• 3:52
  Certainly during one part of his run.
• 3:54
  Indeed. The the most delicious pin up of
• 3:59
  hamster himself, Mr. Paul Cresser.
• 4:01
  Hello. Hello, yes, I'm Paul Cresser.
• 4:05
  I'm here again after almost getting Planet of Fire to the
• 4:09
  top of the Peter Davison Strictly.
• 4:12
  He's responsible. Are you listening to this phone?
• 4:14
  He is responsible for somebody's eccentric results.
• 4:18
  Yeah, well, you know, it's going to be done anyway.
• 4:23
  My one word to sum up the Tom Baker and his era is a word
• 4:29
  that's absolutely so overused these days that it's completely
• 4:32
  lost its meaning. But here I believe I use it in
• 4:35
  its correct sense. Iconic.
• 4:39
  Indeed, I think that's the conclusion we'll all come to you
• 4:42
  today. And Toby.
• 4:43
  Hello, Toby. Hello, my name is Toby Haydock
• 4:46
  and I turn up with tedious regularity on most things to do
• 4:49
  with Doctor Who. It's very nice to be invited
• 4:51
  here and I would describe the 4th Doctor era as genetic.
• 5:01
  What the hell does that mean? Or pertaining to originating and
• 5:07
  because I will learn the word Genesis from Genesis of the
• 5:09
  dialects. But also I grew up watching this
• 5:12
  era so it is the genesis of my life as an obsessive of Doctor
• 5:19
  Who. Wow.
• 5:20
  So I've been on Radio 4. Very classy.
• 5:24
  Well, perhaps. Perhaps.
• 5:25
  What's for four extras? The best I can do these days.
• 5:29
  I don't want to come after gymnastics, for God's sakes.
• 5:32
  Well, hello, my name is Joe Ford and the word that I, and I did
• 5:36
  think for quite some time because I think he's a tricky 1
• 5:39
  to pin down this doctor because there's so much to him.
• 5:42
  He's so multifaceted. I came up with the word
• 5:46
  confounding because I think he confounds expectations on a
• 5:52
  minute by minute basis. He certainly confounds people
• 5:55
  within his stories, and he often confounds the villains as well.
• 6:00
  So I thought that was quite a nice word.
• 6:01
  To sum him up, we're going to go into round one, and Round 1 is
• 6:07
  what do we think of the 4th Doctor's era as a whole?
• 6:12
  So we're looking at, yeah, I realize we're summarizing seven
• 6:15
  seasons of Doctor Who. You know, you're a classic
• 6:19
  example of the inverse ratio between the size of the mouth
• 6:22
  and the size of the brain. And three producers, no tall
• 6:27
  order. And since he's probably very
• 6:30
  scared, Matt, why don't you go first?
• 6:33
  Thank you so much. You're welcome.
• 6:36
  Well, yeah, so I've, I'm kind of in two minds really, to be
• 6:40
  honest. On the one hand, I'm thinking,
• 6:43
  OK, so you got the Hinchcliffe area.
• 6:45
  He's got probably got the best production values of the entire
• 6:47
  classic series, probably maybe the best batting average in
• 6:51
  terms of the story quality, that kind of thing.
• 6:53
  You know, you got all that amazing snappy Robert Holmes
• 6:55
  dialogue and all that kind of thing.
• 6:57
  And then of course you've got the Williams era, which is so
• 6:59
  fun, imaginative, colourful. Just get buying pure vibes if
• 7:03
  you know, for me. And I think comedy is a really
• 7:05
  underrated part of Doctor Who. Listen, you listen to me there.
• 7:10
  What do you want is something warm and sensible, something
• 7:12
  that'll wear well, something with a bit of style and and,
• 7:15
  well, style, you know? How about this, doctor?
• 7:19
  Exactly. Good heavens, that's exactly
• 7:20
  right. I never realised you had such a
• 7:23
  sense of Star I. Thought you said external
• 7:25
  appearances weren't important. But it's nice to get them right
• 7:27
  though, isn't it? But it's what's inside that
• 7:29
  can't. Exactly.
• 7:31
  So I really value that in that in that era.
• 7:34
  And of course, the bid Mead season at the end there is
• 7:37
  really distinct ethereal mature really makes a great use of the
• 7:43
  budget from the Williams era. Like, you know, considering
• 7:45
  they're basic the same, the difference is amazing there.
• 7:50
  So overall I'm thinking, yeah, OK, a really solid, reliable era
• 7:54
  that you can really depend on to be quite enjoyable most of the
• 7:56
  time. However, the the devil on my
• 8:00
  shoulder is going in a slightly different direction in that I
• 8:04
  find this era to be quite sort of safe and a bit pedestrian.
• 8:11
  Doesn't really have an awful lot of variety to it really.
• 8:16
  You know, there's a very much a sense of we know what we're good
• 8:18
  at and we're just going to stick to doing that.
• 8:20
  We're not going to be experimental and push things
• 8:22
  forward. We're just going to sort of play
• 8:23
  it safe a little bit and not make the most of the show's
• 8:26
  format really it's. A good thing you're an hour's
• 8:30
  train drive away, all right? Yeah, I'm, I'm, I might end up
• 8:35
  being the villain of of tonight's episode, but I don't
• 8:37
  know. This isn't a case of like, oh,
• 8:39
  everybody loves it, so I'm going to find a reason not to.
• 8:43
  There's a bit of that going on on these strictlys.
• 8:46
  No, I wouldn't say that. I I try not to be, you know, too
• 8:49
  contrarian for the sake of it. But it's, it's always come to me
• 8:52
  as just like an era that it's quite good.
• 8:54
  But other areas do a lot more with with what they've got and
• 8:58
  make more of the show's format and I'm more interested to talk
• 9:01
  about, which makes tonight quite difficult for me.
• 9:05
  And so, yeah. And I, I also think it's the
• 9:09
  point where the classic series kind of runs out of steam and
• 9:11
  comes to a natural end. And it takes about 10 years for
• 9:16
  the McCoy era to come in and actually breathe new life into
• 9:18
  the show. And it after sort of stagnant,
• 9:20
  very stagnant period. I'm I'm aware that I'm coming
• 9:24
  across as very negative, but I don't mean to be.
• 9:26
  It's just. Welcome to the celebration of
• 9:28
  Tom Bacon. Yeah.
• 9:31
  Don't you worry, there's going to be some positives to come.
• 9:33
  I'm. Sure, there will be.
• 9:34
  Yeah. So yeah, I think yeah, it's
• 9:40
  solid, enjoyable, but unambitious, really.
• 9:46
  And I don't think about it too often.
• 9:48
  I didn't see that coming from a mile off, so I really wish she
• 9:51
  said all of that. Let's, I think, go in the other
• 9:55
  direction, Toby, I think. What do you think of the Fourth
• 9:59
  Doctors era? I find it so hard to be
• 10:05
  objective about this because it's what made me.
• 10:08
  I mean, oddly though, I mean, I'm a child of the Williams era
• 10:13
  in the sense that I'm too young. That's not a that's not a phrase
• 10:17
  I've used didn't but the past decade.
• 10:19
  But I'm too young to remember the Hinchcliffe and Holmes era.
• 10:22
  Although of course I hoovered up the target novels that there
• 10:25
  were a lot of those stories, but they were the ones that then
• 10:28
  when I watched them on television, apart from maybe
• 10:32
  Revenge of the Cybermen, that that didn't disappoint.
• 10:35
  Whereas a lot of Doctor Who that I'd done first on Target did.
• 10:38
  I think the Hinchcliffe and Holmes era is the Acme of all
• 10:42
  Doctor Who. I think it's the perfect
• 10:44
  synthesis of actor, producer and sorry, leading actors, producer
• 10:49
  and script editor. And I think in recent years,
• 10:52
  it's, it's been interesting to sort of watch with a different
• 10:56
  eye and go, oh, all of the episode fours are a bit cheeky,
• 11:00
  but they're done with such confidence and such skill and
• 11:02
  such rigorousness that I forgive them.
• 11:05
  I, you know, I do admire people so who can sort of get to the
• 11:08
  nitty gritty of a script and say, ah, but that, you know,
• 11:12
  they don't do this or they don't do that.
• 11:13
  I'm easily swayed. If you, you know, if you put on
• 11:17
  a nice dress and you make me feel good, you can do what you
• 11:19
  can do what you like to me. And I feel.
• 11:22
  Yeah. And I feel that Messrs
• 11:25
  Hinchcliffe, Holmes and Baker, I mean all all three of them are
• 11:29
  in in gorgeous crinoline, so. Did you ever read the
• 11:33
  novelization of the Android Invasion?
• 11:36
  I Yes. I mean, Terence at the end of
• 11:38
  that, he's like, do you know, he hasn't tied up any of this
• 11:41
  stuff, doesn't he? That little paragraph at the end
• 11:43
  where he ties up every plot? But I I had been told as a kid
• 11:48
  that the Android invasion was the the weak link of the
• 11:51
  Hinchcliff area, and I think it probably is.
• 11:53
  But I, I went into it and it was one of the few that I'd never
• 11:56
  read the target novel of I'd saved myself to, to actually do
• 12:01
  the Android invasion as a, as a story that I didn't know really
• 12:04
  what happened in it. And I remember being shocked
• 12:06
  because it's a great production and it and it and it keeps you
• 12:09
  interested and yeah, once you examine it, it sort of falls
• 12:12
  apart slightly. But I, I remember thinking,
• 12:14
  well, if this is the bad one, wow.
• 12:17
  But the Williams era, of course, I, I grew up and that's what
• 12:20
  watching and that's what got me into Doctor.
• 12:21
  And those are my earliest memories.
• 12:23
  And of course then I went back and realised just how tatty some
• 12:27
  of it is. Is it over?
• 12:28
  Yes, it's been a long hard Rd. but at last the future of
• 12:35
  Gallifrey has assured. Why?
• 12:37
  What are you looking? Tom Baker is like, is like any
• 12:55
  genius is, is that genius is brilliant because when it
• 12:59
  ascends to the heights, it does things that nobody else can do.
• 13:02
  But it's it's not perfect. And so if if you don't, if you
• 13:08
  don't cultivate your genius. Now that can restrict genius,
• 13:11
  obviously. And that's why we should let
• 13:14
  geniuses do what they do. But it does mean that you don't
• 13:16
  always get 100% brilliance. And you get bits like the end of
• 13:20
  Armageddon Factor 6 and times when he's clearly, you know,
• 13:23
  just being pesky for the same my.
• 13:25
  Arms, my fingers. Yeah, everything.
• 13:28
  Sometimes it works in our favour.
• 13:30
  The fact that he hates Paddy Russell means that we get one of
• 13:32
  his best performances of all in Nora Fang Rock.
• 13:35
  But he, he, he is, I, I suspect he was really hard work.
• 13:40
  And, and sometimes that natural genius, you know, hits all the
• 13:47
  right notes and it's absolutely on song.
• 13:49
  And sometimes it's a bit wayward and it doesn't work and it's,
• 13:53
  and it's, and it's tricking. It's a shame and it undermines
• 13:55
  what should be being done. And, and I think the, the, the
• 13:58
  shoddy production values of the 70s.
• 14:00
  We don't watch Doctor Who for production values, but it, you,
• 14:03
  you, you, you do like the idea that they're at least having a
• 14:05
  bash. They're trying, which they then
• 14:08
  do, as Matt quite rightly said, they then do in season 18.
• 14:11
  They sort of go, well, should we try and make this look like at
• 14:14
  least ABBC Shakespeare or something?
• 14:15
  And, and, and do something with the aesthetic that makes it feel
• 14:18
  like we're, we're, we're trying. And it has its own unique
• 14:21
  aesthetic that I remember as a child.
• 14:23
  Though my problem is I've, I've always never liked Doctor Who as
• 14:26
  it is and then got really nostalgic about it when it's in
• 14:29
  the past. And that's a world view I still
• 14:31
  battle against as a 52 year old man.
• 14:33
  Everything's terrible 10 years later.
• 14:35
  I wish it was like it was 10 years ago.
• 14:38
  You're feeling about about the chicken.
• 14:40
  I, I, I really, I really admit to that as, as a, as a worldview
• 14:44
  as well as my view of Doctor Who.
• 14:46
  And I don't like it about myself, but I have to be honest.
• 14:49
  But I did find the maths of Season 18 a bit kind of wearing
• 14:55
  and impenetrable. But then when I came back to it
• 14:57
  as an older person, I, I, I really admired the aesthetic and
• 15:02
  the ambition and things like that.
• 15:04
  You took in your stride as a kid, like the Key to time and
• 15:07
  the E space trilogy. You're going, oh, they're not
• 15:09
  just doing adventure of the week.
• 15:10
  They are trying to inject something that the show hasn't
• 15:13
  done before or, or give it a, so that, you know, they're not just
• 15:16
  going right, let's do a story, see what happens.
• 15:18
  So I think I admire season 18 sometimes more than I like it.
• 15:23
  Or maybe I like it when I've got older.
• 15:25
  It it certainly didn't. It wasn't what I was hankering
• 15:27
  for when I was a kid, bearing in mind I was six or seven.
• 15:31
  I wanted autons exploding in quarries.
• 15:33
  Oh. Shock, that's.
• 15:34
  Nothing. Not maths on a label.
• 15:36
  Yeah, that's why Earth Shock was so exciting, because it came
• 15:39
  after four to Doomsday and Black Orchid.
• 15:41
  You know, much as I like those stories now, I mean, I like
• 15:46
  everything. I can watch any Doctor Who story
• 15:48
  and and enjoy it. But you remember.
• 15:50
  That when talking about the list of stories we've got today.
• 15:52
  All right. Yeah, yes.
• 15:55
  But I like some more than others.
• 15:59
  So yeah, it's it's a conflict because I grew up.
• 16:02
  It's it is, it is, it is attached so much to my growing
• 16:06
  up, but I think it's I think it's fascinating.
• 16:10
  I think it changed and, and never more so has the has the
• 16:14
  presence of the producer altered the approach of the star and
• 16:19
  indeed, you know, demonstrably changed the aesthetic of the
• 16:23
  show. And I think that's quite
• 16:24
  interesting, but it means it's quite frustrating because I
• 16:27
  think on occasion where the cracks start start to show in
• 16:30
  this this era is, is what's I think has has stopped Tom Baker
• 16:36
  from being unimpeachable. And I think that's a shame
• 16:39
  because I think he was born to play Doctor Who.
• 16:42
  I mean, I do wonder sometimes though when the when the sort of
• 16:45
  dusty cracks show, sometimes he's the adhesive that holds it
• 16:51
  together as well. Indeed, yes, indeed.
• 16:53
  So a sort of swings and roundabouts, but with.
• 16:55
  With great power comes great responsibility, and that's This
• 16:58
  is why I think he's something of a tyrant of an occasion.
• 17:01
  Well, you've only got a look at, so I don't know if you guys have
• 17:03
  seen the behind the scenes on the blue.
• 17:05
  There's one bit in the Leisure hive.
• 17:06
  He picks up the helmet of Theoron and he goes and I'll
• 17:09
  throw this fucking dreary prop over there.
• 17:11
  Now point that camera at it. He's directing the thing
• 17:14
  himself. Yeah, yeah.
• 17:16
  And, and all of that. How do you know what I do?
• 17:18
  I'm a Time Lord from the constellation of Custerberus.
• 17:21
  I could stick, I could stick my head in a pan if I want to or
• 17:24
  whatever, you know? What's that great story of the
• 17:26
  fella who plays Vince in horror, Fang Rock when Tom went how can
• 17:29
  you read this, that bullshit or whatever it was, and he just
• 17:32
  goes because I can. It just cuts him down dead.
• 17:35
  Yeah, yeah. You find that, you know, and I
• 17:38
  use the word bully quite strongly.
• 17:40
  You find that when you stand up to them, they very often.
• 17:44
  I mean, there's a story as well, isn't it?
• 17:45
  There is a story in horror, Fang Rock where Louise Jameson made
• 17:49
  Tom Baker do a scene again and again and again because it
• 17:52
  wasn't how they rehearsed it. And when he eventually did it
• 17:56
  and she said thank you, that's how we did it.
• 17:58
  And he just sort of threw it at look her and went, yeah, it's
• 18:00
  all right, love. And walked away.
• 18:02
  You're like, oh, yeah, with genius comes issues.
• 18:10
  Well, Paul. Paul, the four top 0.
• 18:14
  Yes, it's a very similar experience to Toby.
• 18:18
  Really. I've I'm a few years older than
• 18:21
  Toby, not that many. Times been a lot kinder to you.
• 18:27
  And if you don't believe me, check out his Instagram.
• 18:30
  It's an education. Thank you very much.
• 18:35
  Yes, but as a younger kid I actually didn't like Doctor Who.
• 18:40
  But like I said, it's iconic and it was everywhere.
• 18:44
  Tom Baker was everywhere. You knew even if you didn't like
• 18:46
  the programme, didn't watch the programme, you knew exactly who
• 18:49
  he was, what he did, you knew it all.
• 18:53
  And then as I grew, I was a sensitive kid probably and I was
• 18:56
  a bit scared of it all. Left back in the early 70s.
• 19:00
  So then as it, as the era went on and I started to actually
• 19:04
  watch it and start to enjoy it. And as I've said before, with
• 19:07
  that repeat of Destiny of the Daleks in 1980, when I suddenly
• 19:10
  thought this is the best thing I've ever seen in the whole
• 19:13
  world. I love this program.
• 19:16
  I and my attitude towards it changed overnight, basically.
• 19:21
  So yeah, it was. That's why I use the word
• 19:24
  iconic. It was everywhere and he was
• 19:29
  everywhere. And yes, so I fell in love with
• 19:34
  it from that point on. So my I am.
• 19:36
  I have much greater fondness for the latter part of his era.
• 19:40
  For season 17/18/18. I loved Season 18.
• 19:46
  So a new body at life. New body at last.
• 20:07
  Maybe I was because I was a little bit older, maybe it
• 20:11
  resonated a bit more with me, but.
• 20:14
  Your massive on Davis is there as well.
• 20:15
  Absolutely. 80s yeah, yeah. Because obviously, as I said
• 20:20
  before, many times, I'm a big more of a Peter Davidson fan,
• 20:24
  but without that Tom Baker bit, I would might not have never got
• 20:29
  there. So I think yeah, it's wonderful.
• 20:33
  Season 18 is wonderful. I was going to say it's it's
• 20:39
  very inconsistent era in terms of quality as it's been touched
• 20:44
  on the as in production values, the from the heights of the
• 20:48
  things, something like Towns of Wenchuang down to Underworld or
• 20:52
  Horns of Nyman hits quite the difference.
• 20:55
  Always go to Williams, don't they?
• 20:57
  For where it's the shoddiest stuff and there's some great
• 20:59
  productions in there as well. Oh, yeah, no, I don't.
• 21:03
  I'm just using the extremes to to illustrate what I mean again.
• 21:08
  And most of that was down to the situation, the budget, the
• 21:11
  inflation of the 70s. They couldn't help it.
• 21:13
  They did their best. Yeah, I think he had three of
• 21:19
  the most distinctive companions of all time. 3 very different
• 21:28
  companions, but all in their own way.
• 21:31
  Patrick, Tegan and Nyssa. No, actually, I'm talking about
• 21:37
  Sarah Jane, Leela and Roman, obviously.
• 21:42
  So yeah, for the era, yeah. I didn't mention the.
• 21:48
  I said I prefer the later stories because of that's what I
• 21:52
  sort of grew into. But like Toby, I absorbed those
• 21:56
  early Hinchcliffe stories. I read those books over and over
• 22:01
  and over again because the images of them, just the images
• 22:04
  on the cover, like the brain and Morbius seeds of do those images
• 22:08
  just. I had my imagination and yeah,
• 22:13
  so my view of the era isn't really very objective.
• 22:17
  It is very subjective. It's very rooted in nostalgia,
• 22:21
  which I know isn't the right way sometimes to look at these
• 22:23
  things. Welcome.
• 22:24
  To Hamster. I can't.
• 22:25
  I can't. I can't separate it.
• 22:27
  It's that is that is how I look at it.
• 22:29
  It's my childhood. It's the only era where the
• 22:33
  Doctor can appear through the O of Doctor Who on the target
• 22:36
  covers, isn't it? Did any of the others?
• 22:39
  I don't think they did, did they?
• 22:40
  No, I don't think so. Well, Joan.
• 22:44
  Now Joan, you and I have talked about many things in our time,
• 22:47
  but I don't we've ever, ever talked about the 4th Doctor's
• 22:51
  era. So have we not?
• 22:52
  Let's go. Well, as Paul just said, I can't
• 22:57
  be objective about this either. I was a child of the wilderness
• 23:00
  years and some Tarn experiment was the first story I saw.
• 23:07
  And I think with doctors, somebody's probably made this
• 23:09
  point before. It's a little bit like a bird
• 23:11
  imprinting on a check. The first voice you hear, the
• 23:16
  1st Doctor you see that is your doctor.
• 23:20
  Others. Can come along and you might
• 23:24
  enjoy their work and you might enjoy them in the role, but
• 23:28
  there's nothing like the first time.
• 23:30
  And that was Tom for me. And it's difficult to think
• 23:36
  about this as an era for me because I didn't experience this
• 23:40
  in anything like a chronological order.
• 23:43
  My affection for certain stories or periods in his tenure is kind
• 23:50
  of defined by the VHS release schedule.
• 23:54
  That's a completely arbitrary thing.
• 23:56
  But when these things came out and I was at a certain age,
• 24:00
  that's how I got attached to them.
• 24:02
  So yeah, season 18, I got the E Space trilogy for Christmas one
• 24:06
  year. Whenever that came out.
• 24:08
  Hit me at exactly the right time.
• 24:10
  I can't be objective about that because it was just the right
• 24:16
  strand of Doctor Who at exactly the right time.
• 24:19
  It is an inconsistent era, obviously for a variety of
• 24:24
  reasons, and I think every one of those sort of phases within
• 24:29
  the era has its defenders and fans.
• 24:33
  I like I say, I love Season 18. It's the end, but the moment has
• 24:40
  been prepared for. The watcher he.
• 24:53
  Was the doctor all the time? I love that it's such a
• 25:14
  stylistic slap in the face. I love Tom's performance before.
• 25:20
  I don't know if you can actually call it performance even, but
• 25:22
  he's miserable and kind of mournful and it adds so much
• 25:28
  weight to the whole season. To me, season 17 is one of the
• 25:33
  worst seasons of Doctor Who there is.
• 25:35
  I just, I just don't get on with it.
• 25:38
  I find it adolescent and style. Thank you.
• 25:42
  But loads of people love it. Loads of people will say it's
• 25:45
  their favorite Doctor Who. And I don't think there are many
• 25:48
  doctors where you could go from one season to the next.
• 25:52
  And people feel so strongly about that version of Doctor
• 25:56
  Who. Outside the season 18.
• 25:59
  I am tediously predictable in my enjoyment of the Hinchcliffe
• 26:04
  Holmes era. I think as a child, certainly
• 26:07
  the imagery of Doctor Who was what got me seeing those
• 26:12
  slightly transgressive images of horror or strangeness.
• 26:19
  That is what imprinted in my brain.
• 26:22
  Those are the strongest and most formative memories of Doctor Who
• 26:25
  from my childhood, and I don't. What was the scariest?
• 26:29
  Can you remember? What was something that really
• 26:31
  scared you? I mean, in the first story I
• 26:33
  saw, when Sarah is taken captive by Steyr and that weird mushy
• 26:43
  mud stuff is crawling up her leg, I mean, I had to run out of
• 26:47
  the room. I didn't know what was going on.
• 26:50
  But it was compelling. And I don't think any other
• 26:54
  period and Doctor Who has such strong imagery as those three
• 26:58
  years of Hinchcliffe and Holmes. And if that's what you want from
• 27:02
  the show, which is what I did as a 6-7 year old, then it's it's
• 27:07
  the best. I don't know if it's had finer
• 27:11
  set pieces as well, maybe sometimes in the 80s.
• 27:15
  For me it was the. I don't know why it scared me so
• 27:19
  much, but as a nipper, it was that samurai in The Deadly
• 27:23
  Assassin where the camera zooms in on the face and you just see
• 27:26
  the eyes and then he screams and cuts him off the Cliff.
• 27:30
  That absolutely scared the shit out of me when I was a kid.
• 27:33
  Matt, in huge contrast to what you said, I think this is one of
• 27:40
  the most original and unique and creatively interesting periods
• 27:46
  of Doctor Who across the board. And the reason I say that is
• 27:50
  because you look across Tom Baker's era at how often they
• 27:55
  rely on the old favourites. It's rare.
• 27:58
  There's a couple of Dalek stories, There's a one side of
• 28:00
  man story, there's a master story.
• 28:02
  Is that it? I think that's it.
• 28:05
  And you look even like a back to Pertway where you would have a
• 28:08
  Dalek story once a year. You look forward to the 80s
• 28:10
  where there's continuity raining down.
• 28:13
  You like wheels of cheeses and I, I just, I really like that.
• 28:17
  It's one of the reasons I struggle a little bit with Tom
• 28:21
  Baker's return on audio, because there I don't think they capture
• 28:27
  the flavour because they do rely so much on the old favourites.
• 28:31
  Whereas I never quite knew what I was going to get with Tom
• 28:33
  Baker's time because a lot of it was original storytelling.
• 28:38
  What everyone else has said as well.
• 28:40
  I think there are the three distinctive periods.
• 28:42
  There's playful horror, sparkling imagination, and I'm
• 28:45
  pretentious enough to say scientific poetry in season 18
• 28:49
  or fairy tale, shall we say? I it's, they say it's science,
• 28:52
  but I feel it's more fairy tale. That's what it feels.
• 28:54
  Those worlds that Bid Me's conjures are some of the more
• 28:58
  enchanting worlds that you're going to see in Doctor Who.
• 29:02
  I think each of them has a unique flavour and I think each
• 29:05
  of them is successful in its own rise.
• 29:08
  And I think you could find in a room, let's go to the Fitzroy
• 29:11
  Tavern. You can find in a room enough
• 29:13
  people holding up their hands for every part of Tom Baker's
• 29:16
  era. I think as a whole it is
• 29:19
  probably the most successful period of the show.
• 29:23
  And the other reason I said that I love this is I agree with you,
• 29:26
  Paul. I think the companions are just
• 29:28
  tip top during this period. And I'll give you a love to
• 29:33
  Harry and the Brigadier. Oh, and I can tell Professor
• 29:35
  Watson that you're all right. What?
• 29:38
  We've landed where? South Croydon, Hillview Rd. to
• 29:45
  be exact. That's my home.
• 29:54
  I'll be off then, yeah. Thanks.
• 30:11
  Don't forget me, Sarah. Don't you forget me.
• 30:20
  Bye, Doctor. Bye.
• 30:25
  You know, travel does broaden the mind.
• 30:29
  Yes, till we meet again Sarah. Sarah is the Doctor's all time
• 30:37
  best friend. Isn't that what he says in Seeds
• 30:40
  of Doom? Have you met Miss Smith?
• 30:42
  She's my best friend. Oh, he says it so proudly.
• 30:45
  Or the bit, do you remember the bit in the Hand of Fear where
• 30:48
  they're walking back into the reactor place and he's like, I
• 30:52
  worry about you. And she goes, well, I worry
• 30:54
  about you. I mean, they just adore each
• 30:56
  other, the pair of them. That's why the end of that
• 30:58
  story. That's why Hand of Fear won that
• 31:00
  year. You know, I know you all think
• 31:01
  we're mad, Leela. I think the whole, especially
• 31:05
  Leela in 14. I think something goes a bit
• 31:08
  awry in 15, and I think that might be Tom being less than
• 31:13
  welcoming than perhaps he could be.
• 31:16
  But those three stories in 14, I think you've got maybe the best
• 31:20
  Doctor companion dynamic we ever saw in the 4th Doctor.
• 31:23
  And Leela Romana comes in academically brighter than the
• 31:27
  Doctor. So suddenly Tom's on the back
• 31:29
  foot and you've got this beautiful woman who's not going
• 31:33
  to take any of his shit. So he sort of he, he sort of
• 31:36
  misbehaves on the outskirts of the story, which is wonderful,
• 31:39
  but she's naive, so he gets to teach her whilst being
• 31:42
  condescended by her on a regular basis.
• 31:45
  Then Romana 2, where it's two actors in love for that first
• 31:49
  season and occasionally in love for their second season, and you
• 31:54
  get to see all of that. And then canine, of course, you
• 31:57
  didn't mention canine. Who I feel like it's like, it's
• 32:00
  like the sitcom roomie that the Doctor never had.
• 32:02
  You know, he's like a he's a sarcastic little shit, but he's
• 32:06
  got the brain the size of a planet, so he's very useful to
• 32:09
  stick around. And I think some of the Tom
• 32:10
  Baker canine scenes in the Williams era are just gold.
• 32:15
  Yeah. Really just the height of what
• 32:18
  did Jack Coyer say in in the season 2 one?
• 32:22
  It's sort of the peak of the audience's perception of Doctor
• 32:27
  Who being the go to place on a Saturday night and I think they
• 32:31
  pretty much managed it for seven years.
• 32:33
  And that's not a bad track record if you ask me.
• 32:36
  I love it. I love all the eras.
• 32:38
  I do have obscene love for the Williams era because as Toby
• 32:44
  will point out, I like cheap camp trash.
• 32:48
  But within that, I do think you've got some of the biggest
• 32:52
  ideas, some of the cleverest plots, and some of the most
• 32:58
  fabulous guest characters you're ever going to see.
• 33:01
  I mean, Count Grendel, Amelia Rumford, Organon, I mean, it's
• 33:07
  just a riches of wonderful character actors getting to
• 33:11
  strut their stuff. Well fellas, we are now in the
• 33:17
  rather unusual position of looking at a list of classics
• 33:22
  that was somehow the runners up in the Strictly Come Hamster
• 33:29
  episodes for the particular seasons.
• 33:31
  Now this is what you have to choose from.
• 33:34
  Are you ready? It's quite a tough order.
• 33:36
  The Arc in Space, the Seeds of Doom, The Talons of Wenchaiiang,
• 33:41
  the invisible Enemy, the Rebus Operation, I don't want any
• 33:46
  Giggles, the Horns of Naimon and Warriors Gate.
• 33:51
  That is an eclectic bunch of stories there.
• 33:55
  And since I'm sure he's got something to say about the list,
• 33:58
  Toby, why don't you go first? Bucking stupid podcast,
• 34:04
  especially when we get to the winners.
• 34:07
  I mean, good Lord, so we don't. Want to see you deaf?
• 34:11
  That well we'll get on to that spoilers this is and and I note
• 34:18
  actually that my Doctor Who desktop calendar has the Nimon
• 34:22
  on on as their picture of the day today so that but they're
• 34:26
  not getting my vote is. That pointing it in your
• 34:28
  direction, no. No, not a chance.
• 34:30
  No, that that that surprisingly that arch in space and invisible
• 34:36
  enemy were were first to go no. Arcan Space.
• 34:41
  Yeah, I like Arcan space, but it's it's a it's a late
• 34:45
  blossoming love having found the book very hard to read.
• 34:49
  Then when I could read the book and it was like alien and then I
• 34:52
  watched it and it was like up hospital with bears.
• 34:57
  I I thought it would be rusty and viscous.
• 35:00
  So I was always a bit disappointed with Arcan space.
• 35:02
  I now think it's great, but it's it's it's not quite managed to
• 35:06
  catch up to my unadulterated love for seeds of doom talents
• 35:11
  of Wang Chai Yang invisible enemy.
• 35:13
  I have a personal soft spot for because it's my earliest memory,
• 35:16
  but I I wouldn't let that that so, but I'm afraid that one's
• 35:20
  out alongside Nimon and arc in space.
• 35:24
  They'd be the three I'd reject immediately.
• 35:26
  Rebus operation, I think is going in a proper poll.
• 35:30
  This would be a plucky runner up that we could give a chance in
• 35:33
  the in the last round. But unfortunately it's it's a
• 35:36
  long because I think Rebus operation is great, but it's
• 35:40
  it's an indulgent pick. It's not what I it's not what I
• 35:44
  fell in love with Doctor Who for as a kid.
• 35:46
  Do you know what I mean? As a grown up, I can go Oh,
• 35:48
  witty dialogue scenes, excellent characters, But as a kid, I'd be
• 35:52
  like, can we have some monsters, please?
• 35:55
  I don't know what Hackney Wick is that.
• 35:57
  Leaves you with three very disparate stories.
• 36:00
  Well, a Warriors Gate I again, I love now, but as a kid I didn't
• 36:05
  have a clue what was going on. And the the main allure it had
• 36:10
  was that my mum worked with a woman called Janice Rose and her
• 36:15
  husband Bob Rose was the brother of Clifford Rose, who plays
• 36:19
  Rorvik. So Clifford Rose was the only
• 36:21
  actor we were sort of close to because we're not from, I'm not
• 36:25
  from a showbiz milieu. So, but I found I found it
• 36:31
  absolutely impenetrable. I had no idea what was going on.
• 36:34
  I love it now, but again, as a kid, I was going, is anyone
• 36:38
  going to invade earth in a minute?
• 36:40
  So I, so I, I mean, I've talked myself.
• 36:44
  I wasn't intending to. I've talked myself out of
• 36:47
  warriors gate and Rebos, even though I think they're both
• 36:49
  superb. It's a big fist fight between
• 36:53
  seeds of Doom and talent of Wayne Chai Ang, which are to me
• 36:56
  the ultimate of what I mean. They're both they're they're
• 37:00
  both stories that on a on on a good day, I would say if you
• 37:06
  said what's your favorite Doctor Who story of all time, it it
• 37:08
  would be a fight probably between these two.
• 37:11
  So the fact that they're both having to fight it out for
• 37:14
  second place. And I'll take a guess.
• 37:17
  Well, I think you're going to go for the seed to do.
• 37:20
  It's tricky. I, I have to be honest, I, I
• 37:23
  like period drama more. I think Doctor Who doing period
• 37:28
  drama is making the best of what the BBC do very well.
• 37:32
  And it's, and it's allowing you to have your cake and eat it of,
• 37:35
  of having science fiction, but in a, in a historical setting.
• 37:39
  And I think that that to me is the ultimate synthesis of Doctor
• 37:43
  Who and the ultimate brilliance of Doctor Who's dissonance that
• 37:48
  it provides of having, you know, something Spacey contrasting
• 37:52
  with something antique. And I think that dissonance sort
• 37:57
  of sums up Doctor in a nutshell, which is why you have a police
• 37:59
  box on an alien Vista or in a, in a, in a Roman Colosseum.
• 38:04
  Both of those are incongruous images.
• 38:07
  And I think Doctor Who's joy sometimes it's is is summed up
• 38:11
  by its incongruity. You know, it's not flashy.
• 38:14
  It's more it's a it's more it's a sort of melange of things that
• 38:18
  shouldn't go together in yet confounding make magic when they
• 38:21
  do. Yes, confounding incongruity,
• 38:24
  but I watch the seeds of Doom more.
• 38:26
  What do you do for an encore Dr. I win.
• 38:34
  But the Seeds of Doom isn't very like a lot of Doctor Who, which
• 38:38
  is odd. But then again, I suppose one of
• 38:40
  the things about being a Doctor Who fan is we're sometimes drawn
• 38:43
  to the ones that aren't necessarily exactly like Doctor
• 38:46
  Who because there's so much Doctor Who.
• 38:48
  But then it is like Doctor Who because it's like a Doctor Who
• 38:51
  story. That's one of the best Doctor
• 38:52
  Who stories. Talents or seeds.
• 38:54
  I think I'm going to go with my instinct.
• 38:59
  And, and although these were designed to be what she wants,
• 39:02
  if I was to reach from the shelf tomorrow, I would probably go.
• 39:08
  I think Seeds is an easier watch.
• 39:10
  Yeah, I'll go for Seeds of Doom, I think.
• 39:13
  OK, You know Sarah Jane's bit, and I used to quote that scene
• 39:18
  where she's with Scorpy and she goes, was it not to save your
• 39:22
  skin? Not after what you've done to us
• 39:24
  or that. I just think Sarah Jane in that
• 39:26
  story is just amazing. She's brilliant.
• 39:29
  All the guest characters are brilliant.
• 39:30
  I love the bit where they're stuck in the lodge and he, he
• 39:34
  shouts at Scorpy. You know about coming.
• 39:36
  If I die, you die. All of that stuff.
• 39:38
  I think all the guest characters are great.
• 39:40
  Even the, you know, the three guys in the Antarctic in the
• 39:42
  first first couple of episodes. It's got so many witty lines and
• 39:50
  and, you know, somebody's garden turns into a, a, a death pit.
• 39:54
  Great. That's Doctor Who.
• 39:56
  Just what? You think is getting too
• 39:57
  serious? Amelia Ducat turns out.
• 39:59
  Absolutely, which was a surprise to me.
• 40:01
  But having read the book where most of her stuff is, is cut
• 40:05
  out, you know, the book, the book does the that that inverse
• 40:09
  thing of it actually takes, takes some of it out, some of it
• 40:12
  out rather than broadens it. Yes, I'm feeling sorry for
• 40:15
  Talents now because I think Talents is utterly brilliant
• 40:18
  and. It's such a good production, but
• 40:23
  no, I'm going to I could overthink this.
• 40:25
  The seeds off Doom, please. OK, let's swing around to Matt
• 40:31
  next. Matt, what have you got from
• 40:32
  this list? What do you want to?
• 40:34
  What do you want to kick through?
• 40:36
  Well, yeah. So I'm thinking straight away
• 40:41
  Rebus operation. It looks great, it feels great.
• 40:45
  It's very all very worthy, but I find it a bit dull so I'm I'm
• 40:48
  not going to put that one through.
• 40:49
  Oh, I thought you were choosing that one.
• 40:50
  I was so happy. No, no, sorry, no I, I, I feel
• 40:53
  like Robert Holmes was kind of worn out by season 16 and his
• 40:57
  two stories are the low lights of that season for me.
• 40:59
  Bad. For my heart tonight, I.
• 41:01
  Know I'm I'm so negative. Aren't I'm terrible horns of
• 41:05
  nine one. I've only actually seen it once
• 41:06
  and it was fun, but it it shouldn't be in the list.
• 41:08
  Let's be honest, so we can get rid of that one as well.
• 41:12
  Warriors Gate, very experimental, completely goes
• 41:15
  against what I was saying earlier.
• 41:16
  That is completely out there and I'd really appreciate it for
• 41:19
  that, but I think even I've seen it a good few times I still
• 41:22
  don't really know what's going on so can't really put that one
• 41:25
  through. Invisible enemy, Lot of fun, lot
• 41:28
  of fun. Not the best though, let's be
• 41:30
  honest. Arc in Space solid, not my
• 41:33
  favorite. Talons, one of my favourites,
• 41:36
  but it's just not racist enough. You know what I prefer a bit
• 41:39
  more? I prefer a bit more of that in
• 41:42
  my book to do so. I'm going to rule it out for
• 41:44
  that reason. There's other doctoral stories
• 41:46
  for that if you want them. So yeah, I'm also going to
• 41:49
  choose Caesar Doom actually, because it's it is very brutal
• 41:55
  and dark, but I think it just about treads the line without
• 41:58
  going too bleak and unpleasant, if you know what I mean.
• 42:01
  It is just about stays the right side of of that for me, whereas
• 42:04
  other stories I think do go too far on that.
• 42:08
  On that front. I think I think the structure of
• 42:09
  having two parts followed by 4 parts works really well to sort
• 42:12
  of keep the interest up over the six parter.
• 42:16
  Douglas Canfield, I mean of course he's always amazing.
• 42:19
  The guest characters. Amelia Dukar is amazing.
• 42:23
  You know, she's completely fabulous.
• 42:25
  Very unlike, well unlike the whole era really, you know, the
• 42:28
  Hintercliffe era in terms of having a great female character.
• 42:30
  She's one of the very few of those.
• 42:33
  Keeler, he's such a realistic performance.
• 42:37
  I really sympathise with him and I just think that I just feel
• 42:42
  really sorry for him, even though he's obviously he's got
• 42:44
  himself in a bad situation. But even from the very start of
• 42:47
  the story, he's just in too deep and he just wants to get out and
• 42:50
  he gets betrayed by one around him and the.
• 42:52
  Bit about where he's shaking and chases going.
• 42:54
  You're turning into a plant, a wonderful new species.
• 42:58
  And it should be. If Doctor was doing it properly
• 43:02
  he would be a shit because those sort of sniveling unfortunates
• 43:05
  are usually played because they're not the best parts to
• 43:07
  play. Or Cyril shafts.
• 43:09
  Are usually played by shit actors and Mark Jones.
• 43:12
  I think it's the most underrated performance in all of Doctor
• 43:15
  Who. I think he's so good and I'm
• 43:18
  really love to hear some some Keeler love from you, Matt.
• 43:22
  Thank you very much. And also, of course, Harrison
• 43:24
  Chase. He's one of the best villains of
• 43:27
  the classic series. I find people who are mentally
• 43:29
  unstable really scary because you just can't predict what
• 43:32
  they're going to do. There's no logic that you can
• 43:34
  apply to what they're doing. And I, I also think as well that
• 43:38
  his taste in music is actually quite underrated.
• 43:41
  I, I quite like it. I quite like it.
• 43:43
  It reminds me of like sort of Velvet Underground, sort of
• 43:45
  noisy kind of screeching stuff. And there was actually an album
• 43:50
  also released in 1976 called Plantasia that is music made for
• 43:54
  plants. And some of these actually does
• 43:55
  it. Sound like that.
• 43:57
  Not exact, no, no it doesn't. But it's, but it it, it is
• 44:01
  actually quite good. So, but yeah, so I, I think I, I
• 44:04
  want to defend Harris and Chase on that front.
• 44:06
  There's nothing wrong with his music taste.
• 44:08
  OK. I, I think the only real
• 44:11
  downside of it is the ending is a cop out, you know, sort of
• 44:14
  blowing it up. It doesn't sort of contradict
• 44:16
  what we're told earlier on about, you know, the the spores
• 44:19
  spreading if you, you know, shoot and all that kind of
• 44:21
  thing. And it is a bit of a whimper,
• 44:25
  the unit to go out on. I think that is also a shame.
• 44:27
  But apart from that, I think it's it's it's gripping.
• 44:30
  And yeah, that's my pick. Superb model work as well, isn't
• 44:34
  it on the plant on the House that is so great where a lot of
• 44:39
  other Doctor Who stories would fail with that?
• 44:42
  Well, my roving eye goes to Yoan.
• 44:45
  What do you got for us from the list?
• 44:50
  I'm going to take things in a slightly different direction
• 44:52
  here by choosing the Seeds of Doom, which.
• 44:56
  I would like which. I would like to put into the
• 45:01
  next round, yes, I'm going to go back to the personal affection,
• 45:07
  just to the start here because I went to the doctor exhibition in
• 45:11
  Llangollen for one of my birthdays and I bought this
• 45:14
  story and Robots of Death in the shop before leaving.
• 45:18
  And I applaud my past self for having such great taste because
• 45:22
  I watched those videos over and over again.
• 45:25
  Both brilliant stories. I mean, Robots of Death isn't
• 45:29
  even a runner up here. It there amount of fantastic
• 45:34
  stories that aren't even runners up here is is quite like.
• 45:39
  Me for the weirdos are now OK. I won't.
• 45:43
  I won't. But yeah, I mean, Matt and Toby
• 45:47
  have said a lot. I'm just going to add to that.
• 45:49
  Cam Field is one of, if not the greatest Doctor Who directors of
• 45:54
  all time. We've just seen more examples of
• 45:57
  his brilliance with the Master Plan episodes that came back.
• 46:01
  He needs to be represented on this list.
• 46:06
  This because there's so many ways this story goes wrong.
• 46:09
  All all the location stuff, the stuff in in the snow, the model
• 46:14
  work. Doctor Who apparently can't do
• 46:17
  big monsters, but Douglas Canfield can and it's his last
• 46:21
  story so it has to go through. A huge fan of Geoffrey Bergen's
• 46:26
  music. Oh yes.
• 46:28
  Which is just beautiful. Even before I'd seen Doctor Who,
• 46:32
  I watched Chronicles of Narnia, the BBC production, so his music
• 46:36
  was already in my head. And I love Dudley, of course,
• 46:39
  but there is something about Bergen's music and his
• 46:42
  orchestration that makes this feel more expensive.
• 46:47
  I think there's a real elegance and class to his scoring.
• 46:52
  Yes, Harrison Chase is one of the great human villains in the
• 46:56
  history of the series. It is an unfortunately prescient
• 47:00
  portrayal of the strange, obscenely wealthy men who hate
• 47:06
  humanity and are happy to destroy it to live out their own
• 47:10
  fantasies. Like Matt, I would also buy an
• 47:13
  album of his electronic music. I enjoy it very much.
• 47:17
  The horror is truly horrific. It's disturbingly horrific.
• 47:21
  It's too far. As a 14 year old, I loved it.
• 47:26
  You know, that was the time when you watched Terminator 2 or
• 47:31
  Aliens when you were seven years old because they were a video in
• 47:34
  the shop. That didn't phase me.
• 47:37
  Now I'm more sensitive and I go, that's a bit too far, but
• 47:42
  actually a man being mulched by a big machine was quite
• 47:47
  appealing to me as a 14 year old for whatever reason.
• 47:50
  Scientist, yes, apparently. So I understand the criticism
• 47:55
  about the ending. We could say that about a lot of
• 47:57
  stories in the Hinchcliffe Holmes era, in the Tom Baker
• 48:01
  era, in the Doctor Who era. But I think, given the
• 48:04
  circumstances, surviving the situation is an achievement and
• 48:09
  it has time for whimsy with Amelia Ducat.
• 48:11
  And that feels like something only Doctor Who could do to
• 48:14
  balance those two hugely desperate tones.
• 48:19
  And if we want to prove that the Strictly format works at this
• 48:23
  point, at this crucial point, not only should this go through,
• 48:28
  it should win a runner up should win, come.
• 48:39
  Along Sarah. Mr. got the answer, Colin.
• 48:58
  Right, let's get. Up and phone him you.
• 49:00
  Got 2 PPS. She'll get the phone him.
• 49:05
  I must get another look at that pod.
• 49:06
  Let's get you over the wall first.
• 49:11
  Gods, I got away. We've got to find you 2 that
• 49:17
  way. I'm putting it exactly.
• 49:21
  It's exactly what happened on the 11th.
• 49:23
  Doctor won the Pandora Opens and The Big Bang went through to the
• 49:26
  final and then won. Well then it should happen the
• 49:29
  second time with the seeds of Doom.
• 49:31
  There we go. What does she say?
• 49:34
  Invent a code word. They love that sort of thing.
• 49:36
  Operation Nuthouse. Oh, she's fabulous.
• 49:39
  If I just said to you fellas, Scorpy get dumb bar, you can
• 49:45
  hear the music after that, can't you?
• 49:46
  Oh boy, all those drums that come in, it's fabulous.
• 49:50
  A. Friend.
• 49:51
  A friend of mine did it for me as a ringtone as well.
• 49:53
  So when I get a text from a particular friend of mine, I get
• 49:56
  scorpy get dumb bar. Wow, Paul, are you?
• 50:02
  I mean, it's going through that's three to two.
• 50:05
  Obviously so. But you know, please have your
• 50:07
  say. What would you have gone for?
• 50:09
  I was. Going to say, but it doesn't
• 50:10
  matter what I say now, but I do love Caesar Doom.
• 50:16
  I've got a real soft spot for it because it was also the very
• 50:18
  first target novelization I read.
• 50:22
  So it holds a sort of special place there for that reason.
• 50:26
  But like, I mean, Toby said it it in many ways it's not like
• 50:29
  Doctor Who. It's it's much more like an
• 50:31
  episode of The Avengers or something.
• 50:33
  It's not quite got that same whimsy that I kind of like from
• 50:39
  my Doctor Who. So I wasn't going to go for the
• 50:42
  Seeds of Doom and similar for Talons and Arc in Space.
• 50:47
  Love them both, but as I already said, I prefer the latter part
• 50:53
  of the Baker era so. Oh my words, I have no idea.
• 50:57
  Something from that you don't know, do you?
• 51:03
  Season 18 is my favorite, but Warriors Gate I do still work.
• 51:09
  I I love it. But again, like Toby said, as a
• 51:12
  kid, I had absolutely no idea what was going on.
• 51:16
  I missed a couple of episodes, which didn't help.
• 51:20
  So it was, yeah, I can't, I I couldn't put that through.
• 51:26
  And I thought, So what do I enjoy most?
• 51:28
  And I unironically love Horns of Nineborn.
• 51:32
  And I was so tempted. So so.
• 51:35
  Horns of Nineborn. No, and it's a.
• 51:40
  It's a fantastic, fantastic story for Lala Ward, but we're
• 51:43
  here to celebrate Tom Baker, so oh.
• 51:46
  How many nine months have you seen today?
• 51:49
  Oh. Many nine months.
• 51:53
  She's fantastic. So it boiled down to, OK, I like
• 52:00
  I want to put so through that is very Doctor Who.
• 52:03
  And one of the stories on this list is in my mind the most
• 52:07
  Doctor Who Doctor Who story there is, and that's the
• 52:11
  invisible enemy. Oh my God.
• 52:15
  I can get behind this. I'm happy that.
• 52:17
  It's got everything that captured my imagination as a kid
• 52:22
  about Doctor Who. It's got spaceships, it's got
• 52:25
  gun battles. It's got the possession.
• 52:27
  It's got all the elements from all the different, you know,
• 52:30
  it's got the hangover from the Hitchcliff stuff of the
• 52:32
  possession and the, you know, the diamonds.
• 52:35
  Hairy balls as well. Oh yes, yeah, K9 it and each
• 52:43
  episode is different. They start off with the yeah,
• 52:46
  the creepy, the possession. What's going on?
• 52:48
  The second episode is all gun battles and Leela and canine
• 52:52
  shooting things. The third episode goes batshit
• 52:55
  inside the Doctor's head. Emergency Emergency All stations
• 53:00
  Emergency Shuttle approaching on collision calls out of control
• 53:04
  All medical personnel stand by Emergency Emergency.
• 53:07
  Where we going, Doctor? Into the land of dreams and
• 53:10
  fantasy, Leela. Hello.
• 53:14
  Hello. It is my purpose, it is my
• 53:23
  destiny. We are in control of the entire
• 53:26
  Fitte. Release me I'm.
• 53:33
  Fighting for my mind what it was is also affecting me the.
• 53:41
  Region must be destroyed. And it's that whole incredible
• 53:56
  voyage thing. And then there's, well, there's
• 53:58
  episode 4, but we won't dwell on that.
• 54:04
  Well, bit of garlic, they might be all right.
• 54:07
  But yeah. But yeah, to my mind, when I
• 54:11
  think of Doctor Who and what Doctor Who was to me as a kid,
• 54:15
  the invisible enemy is that story, which ticks every box.
• 54:21
  So that's why I would have put it through.
• 54:23
  I mean, even I was on that basis, I can't believe that
• 54:26
  fucking giant prawns made it on this list.
• 54:28
  But I won't say that now after you've just said that.
• 54:31
  Somebody's got to represent the talents of Wenchuiang.
• 54:34
  Have they on this list? One of the most handsome looking
• 54:37
  Doctor Who stories of all time. Just so many things that I
• 54:42
  watched this to death. I had the 6th episode 1 without
• 54:44
  any of the cliffhangers. Now when I see the cliffhangers
• 54:48
  I just get baffled even though I think the cliffhanger where the
• 54:51
  giant rat is cheering on Leela's leg is fucking amazing.
• 54:57
  David Maloney knows how to structure a cliffhanger, I
• 55:01
  think, better than anybody. Jago and Lightfoot, of course,
• 55:06
  the most formidable combination in the annals of Doctor Who.
• 55:11
  Good enough to generate seasons and seasons of audio drama, and
• 55:14
  they're fantastic. I think you was in one of those,
• 55:17
  wasn't you, Toby? I'm I'm across a whole of
• 55:20
  season. Oh, I've got a.
• 55:22
  Recurring villain. Sorry, that was very camp, but I
• 55:26
  wasn't sorry. I'm very excited.
• 55:29
  No, just heaven. And the I got I had the very
• 55:32
  great privilege to do a telephone interview with Trevor
• 55:37
  Baxter, who was the most charming man.
• 55:40
  We barely talked about Doctor Who.
• 55:42
  His career was so interesting. We basically talked about him
• 55:45
  treading the dusty boards all around England and the amazing
• 55:49
  actors that he worked with. But they're just heaven
• 55:52
  together, aren't they? They're heaven separately in
• 55:55
  episodes 1:00 to 4:00 in their various interactions with the
• 55:58
  Doctor and Leela. But they're even better when
• 56:01
  they come together. And it is my one.
• 56:03
  Oh, I wish they had made that for that TV show that was
• 56:07
  possibly mooted at the time. They could have done it.
• 56:09
  They, I mean, they just had the resources there in the cent.
• 56:12
  Look at Sherlock Holmes. It could have looked terrific.
• 56:15
  Yes, well, perhaps we shouldn't wait for your friend the Doctor.
• 56:18
  Help yourself, my dear. Plates on the end of the table.
• 56:22
  I'll. I'll ask of a mob or two on the
• 56:25
  fire. It's good.
• 56:36
  I'm so glad there's something wrong.
• 56:39
  No, no. Would you care for a knife or a
• 56:42
  fork? It's a good.
• 56:49
  Knife, aren't you going to eat? Yes, yes.
• 56:59
  Just going to eat the most. I think this is the most
• 57:04
  expensive looking Doctor Who story of the entire classic
• 57:06
  series. The location with the foggy
• 57:08
  streets, the rancid sewers, the artistic and domestic spaces.
• 57:12
  You get in it that amazing set for the House of the Dragon.
• 57:16
  I mean, they save money for episode 6 for fuck's sake.
• 57:18
  And that giant dragon that they've got there, it's
• 57:22
  absorbing direction throughout. Their action is genuinely
• 57:25
  propulsive. I love the sequence where
• 57:27
  they're dashing around the theatre, like Phantom of the
• 57:30
  Opera, the Doctor of Grill, and he's sort of tearing down the
• 57:34
  curtain and stuff like that. Amazing cliffhangers.
• 57:38
  And I think, tell me if I'm wrong.
• 57:40
  I think as a single story, this might be the single best Doctor
• 57:45
  companion chemistry and and just interaction that we ever see in
• 57:51
  the classic run. I just think there's a bit of
• 57:53
  magic here that goes a horror Fang rock.
• 57:57
  It lingers for a bit and then it goes after that, I think in 15
• 58:01
  and it's just not quite as tight.
• 58:03
  I mean, Holmes is sort of he's heading out after this, isn't
• 58:07
  it? But this is his first sort of
• 58:08
  original companion and he makes sure she's just as memorable as
• 58:12
  possible. That bit where she comes in in
• 58:15
  the dress and the Trevor Baxter and Tom Baker are utterly
• 58:19
  beguiled by her, you know, or they're sitting in the theatre
• 58:22
  and she goes, oh, do we have to give a response to dating,
• 58:24
  dating, stuff like that to, you know, Leila traipsing around
• 58:29
  the, you know, bloomers through the through the sewers die bent
• 58:33
  face. You know, she's just incredibly
• 58:36
  good in this. I don't think it ever lets up
• 58:39
  either. I think it's one of those rare
• 58:40
  six partners where every every single episode gets a little bit
• 58:45
  better than the last one. Yeah, the peeking homunculus is
• 58:50
  one of the scariest things you've ever seen.
• 58:52
  A fucking doll that snorts like a pig with a big knife in his
• 58:56
  hand. The bit where he jumps out on
• 58:57
  poor. Was it Mr. Buller on the foggy
• 59:00
  streets in episode 1? Oh, fabulous.
• 59:02
  It ain't going through it deserved to.
• 59:05
  I want. To choose talon's Wang Chai Yang
• 59:06
  now are. You going to that?
• 59:08
  Was very convincing. Yeah, it.
• 59:10
  Was and it is really good It's. Great.
• 59:14
  We're gonna do a commentary on it one day.
• 59:16
  We are. Maybe if we'd have done that
• 59:18
  first, you know, you would have chosen it.
• 59:19
  I. I did like your advocacy of it
• 59:22
  and I it is one it is the one that I say if normally if people
• 59:25
  say what's your favorite story talents, Wing Chai Yang?
• 59:27
  So why did I choose Seeds of Doom today?
• 59:29
  All of that even manages to ace. Should I make it interesting?
• 59:33
  Should I get I can? I'm going to change my vote to
• 59:35
  tell yes. Anyone else?
• 59:37
  Anyone else? Then then we're at 2 all and
• 59:40
  Matt. Gets the.
• 59:41
  Matt, Matt, Matt, are you? Sure it's not racist enough for
• 59:45
  you? Please come on now.
• 59:47
  I don't know, it could go a lot further, couldn't it really?
• 59:50
  It's a shame. Well, Joe, what you said?
• 59:53
  About what Joe, what you said about it being Leela and and the
• 59:57
  4th Doctor together, I part of the reason that I was leaning
• 1:00:01
  towards seeds is because that might be my favorite 4th Doctor
• 1:00:06
  and Sarah story. They're just beautiful together
• 1:00:09
  in that story, and that maybe tipped me in that direction just
• 1:00:12
  for that reason alone. Felt we've put the both through
• 1:00:15
  because they're tied. Let's just get.
• 1:00:17
  Rid of one of the winners. Yeah.
• 1:00:20
  I'll give you a list of about 6:00 you could get rid of.
• 1:00:24
  All right, I'll tell you what. Right?
• 1:00:26
  I'll tell you what, Matt, if you wish to stay with your original
• 1:00:29
  choice, let's just fuck the rules today, all right?
• 1:00:32
  And we'll all vote for one story of the winners to whatever gets
• 1:00:36
  the most votes to be booted out of the winners.
• 1:00:39
  And we'll put two through from the runners up.
• 1:00:41
  How about that? OK, you've got to make a choice
• 1:00:45
  then. Are you ready for this?
• 1:00:46
  Who do you want to kick out? Robot, The Brain of Morbius?
• 1:00:49
  The Hand of Fear, The Invasion of Time, The Androids of Tara,
• 1:00:52
  City of Death or State of Decay. Invasion of times.
• 1:00:58
  I was going to say the invasion of Time, so was I.
• 1:01:01
  I'll say Invasion of the Time just to get this over with.
• 1:01:04
  What would you have said? Sorry, what would I have said?
• 1:01:11
  What from the winners? Sorry from.
• 1:01:13
  The winners and from kicking out, yeah, I don't know what's
• 1:01:15
  happening now. I'm lost.
• 1:01:17
  Oh dear. We're.
• 1:01:19
  Going to kick out a winner to make place for the extra runner
• 1:01:22
  up. So which winner would you get
• 1:01:23
  rid of? That's what I thought was
• 1:01:25
  happening, and then I got confused.
• 1:01:26
  OK, so I'm going to kick out oh, State of Decay.
• 1:01:33
  Oh, I like all of them. I.
• 1:01:35
  Like all of the stories, but if I had to pick a lease for it's,
• 1:01:39
  it's one I watched the least, I'd say.
• 1:01:41
  So on that basis, I think you probably should.
• 1:01:44
  He drops. I just couldn't kick out Emrus
• 1:01:46
  Jones. Come on now.
• 1:01:47
  OK, so the Invasion of Time is dead to us and Steve's of Doom
• 1:01:52
  and the Talons of Wenchuang, which I imagine we might battle
• 1:01:55
  out between the finale. Oh, wonderful stuff.
• 1:02:00
  Just as a sort of side question though, Matt, what would you
• 1:02:03
  have chosen there out of the two of them?
• 1:02:05
  Out of seeds and talons, that's. Right.
• 1:02:08
  Yeah, no, I'm sticking with seeds, I think.
• 1:02:09
  Yeah. Oh, you.
• 1:02:10
  Would have had seeds. OK, well, you've got the joy of
• 1:02:12
  having to think. I would have had the casting
• 1:02:13
  vote, wouldn't I? Oh, was it?
• 1:02:15
  Oh, it was too. Cool.
• 1:02:16
  And I it was me who went for invisible enemies, so.
• 1:02:19
  Oh. Sorry, we would have to.
• 1:02:20
  We're still a bit confused about that.
• 1:02:22
  That's why. What would you have chosen?
• 1:02:25
  But you, you, you swung the vote anyway, so it doesn't matter.
• 1:02:28
  But I don't know. That's a real tough one,
• 1:02:31
  actually. We can save it for the winners,
• 1:02:34
  Rob. Bubly yeah, because yeah, it
• 1:02:37
  might be cool. Yeah.
• 1:02:38
  You final tune. For it later.
• 1:02:41
  OK, well folks and unfortunately this is the.
• 1:02:44
  Those of joggers now have torn their headphones out in disgust.
• 1:02:47
  A gutch. I've been I've been a loyal
• 1:02:49
  listener since this began at the dawn of COVID and I've been
• 1:02:54
  building up to these for hours. And they've just thrown out the
• 1:02:56
  rules. They've changed the.
• 1:02:58
  Rules. They've subverted democracy.
• 1:03:01
  This is like the last season of Stranger Things.
• 1:03:05
  I haven't seen it but I I I understand some people were very
• 1:03:08
  annoyed and the last season of Lost of got together and decided
• 1:03:13
  to indulge in whatever it is they get up to to pervert what
• 1:03:17
  they once were. As we.
• 1:03:19
  Mostly curious. I'm hoping that the destination,
• 1:03:25
  the journey is the the exciting thing because I've seen the
• 1:03:28
  winners that have won all of these doctor roundups.
• 1:03:31
  So I'm hoping the journey will be enough and the destination,
• 1:03:34
  who gives a shit because nothing great is going to win this
• 1:03:37
  thing. Well, fellas, we are now heading
• 1:03:40
  over to the collective Wally Brains of the universe, the Ham
• 1:03:44
  fam, to find out what they think about the 4th Doctor.
• 1:03:48
  Usually this is the only time when we hear anything sort of
• 1:03:50
  negative in these episodes, but we've got Matt here as well, so
• 1:03:54
  that's all right. Oh God.
• 1:03:57
  OK, first up, we've got Fraser Gregory, Champion of the Damned
• 1:04:02
  here. Or Champion of the
• 1:04:03
  misunderstood, shall we say? In strictly terms, the 4th
• 1:04:07
  Doctor is, as the kids would say, the OG.
• 1:04:10
  What does that mean? Original gangster.
• 1:04:14
  Oh. Jesus Christ not.
• 1:04:16
  Quite. Every day's a school day.
• 1:04:19
  Quite the original. That was, well sick.
• 1:04:21
  Of you, Matt. Thank you.
• 1:04:24
  Totes not quite the original, but the one that defined the
• 1:04:28
  character more than any other, turning the show back from a
• 1:04:30
  genuine a success to a genuine cultural phenomenon.
• 1:04:34
  Tom Baker swept into the show not so much a breath of fresh
• 1:04:37
  air, but like a vortex, blasting out the notion of the Doctor as
• 1:04:41
  your favorite, albeit stern, granddad and replacing it as the
• 1:04:45
  madcap, twinkly eyed alien. He showed us that a person's
• 1:04:49
  best weapons were their intelligence, wit and above all,
• 1:04:52
  humour. And the universe was not just
• 1:04:54
  worth saving, but worth laughing at too.
• 1:04:57
  Baker had a simple mantra. If you can't be convincing, then
• 1:05:01
  be interesting or entertaining. In that respect, he never
• 1:05:05
  failed, not once. Bravo, that's a brilliant.
• 1:05:08
  Summation of of all that is great about Tom Baker.
• 1:05:12
  Well, dumb phrase that was. Yeah, absolutely bang on.
• 1:05:16
  Next up is Paul Arthur who says how impossible is it to sum up
• 1:05:20
  Tom Baker and the 4th Doctor in a social media post?
• 1:05:24
  What's the blue sky character Limiter again?
• 1:05:27
  His cultural impact on a whole generation was nothing short of
• 1:05:30
  seismic and continues to be felt today.
• 1:05:33
  He's our Doctor for all of us. Having said that, Hinchcliff is
• 1:05:37
  overrated and it made his boring.
• 1:05:39
  William's Rules. OK.
• 1:05:42
  Beat your. No Was no.
• 1:05:44
  Not beat your cock. All right, let's just predictive
• 1:05:50
  text beat you cock. You know what that's from,
• 1:05:53
  right? No, off the top of my head, the.
• 1:05:57
  Tom Baker years when? He was walking around I.
• 1:05:59
  Was just watching that. Oh, he's talking to the giant
• 1:06:02
  robot. Sorry, Toby.
• 1:06:05
  Daniel Rawnsley says. I mean, he is just the doctor,
• 1:06:09
  isn't he? The definite article, you might
• 1:06:11
  say. The commanding sonorous voice,
• 1:06:14
  that consternated look about him, the playful charm, the
• 1:06:18
  weirdo line readings. He can be utterly lovely and
• 1:06:21
  utterly alien at the same time, but his impish delight with
• 1:06:25
  Sladen is my favorite. Even when his on and off screen
• 1:06:28
  behaviour threatens to turn everything into the Tom Baker
• 1:06:31
  show in later seasons, there's still something so oddly
• 1:06:35
  fascinating and magnetic about him.
• 1:06:37
  He left such an indelible mark. Still the most recognizable face
• 1:06:41
  of Doctor Who for me. With apologies to David Tennant.
• 1:06:46
  OK, so I get Jomana. Sorry, Jomana, I'm not sure how
• 1:06:50
  to pronounce your surname. Medjed Medley I think it is.
• 1:06:55
  Sorry, I've spelt it wrong. I'm sorry.
• 1:06:58
  Oh. Right, I'm trying to read
• 1:07:00
  something. That's right, Germana Medley
• 1:07:02
  says. So hard to comment on such a
• 1:07:05
  long and iconic run. There's a definite arc to Tom
• 1:07:08
  Baker's run, who starts out trying to be the Doctor, peaks
• 1:07:11
  as being effortlessly the Doctor, and ends as basically
• 1:07:14
  deciding to be Tom Baker is being the Doctor.
• 1:07:17
  But I do find that to be in itself one of those organic
• 1:07:20
  components of the show that nobody put in there on purpose
• 1:07:23
  but that ended up making it so unpredictable and unique.
• 1:07:27
  Every season has its own strengths, and there isn't any I
• 1:07:30
  can dismiss, though some episodes are only held together
• 1:07:32
  by crayons and rubber bands and madcap acting.
• 1:07:35
  He's not my favorite Doctor because after his first season
• 1:07:38
  he has this invincible, invulnerable character that
• 1:07:41
  makes it hard to emotionally connect with.
• 1:07:43
  But on the other hand, that means I happily reach out for
• 1:07:45
  these stories when I just want an uplifting ROM.
• 1:07:48
  I particularly love the keys, time, and season 17, as this is
• 1:07:51
  Doctor at his best with a Romana who can more than keep up with
• 1:07:55
  him and push his buttons a bit. And of course, his run gave us
• 1:07:59
  all of the groundwork for the incredible Gallifrey audio
• 1:08:01
  series that later brought Leela and Romana together.
• 1:08:04
  Mad respect for this era. Bravo, Giovanna.
• 1:08:09
  I've got a comment from Korean Visual.
• 1:08:11
  Is that another one of your typos, Joe, or is that the?
• 1:08:13
  No, no, that that's his name. Blue Sky.
• 1:08:15
  Yeah, sorry, I added the bit where he criticized me as well.
• 1:08:19
  Yes, yeah, this one is aimed at you, it says in the finished Big
• 1:08:22
  Juggernauts episode. You and Mark refused to read my
• 1:08:24
  full comment because of its length.
• 1:08:26
  The length of a. Fucking Bible, Matt.
• 1:08:28
  All right, It was 15 tweets. Oh dear.
• 1:08:33
  Summing up Tom Baker properly on social media would take longer.
• 1:08:36
  Let's say no matter what else, he's the most interesting actor
• 1:08:39
  to take on the role. No matter what else, he's never
• 1:08:42
  boring. So succinct.
• 1:08:44
  Beautiful. Try visual.
• 1:08:45
  Thank you. Oh, no.
• 1:08:48
  There's my new nemesis, Tom Turlo.
• 1:08:50
  Let's see what he's got to say. I often find myself out of tune
• 1:08:53
  with the prevailing preferences of this podcast.
• 1:08:56
  Sorry, Disagreeing with everybody else's opinions and
• 1:08:59
  being the metaphorical turd in the punch bowl.
• 1:09:01
  Always the negative Nelly. But not this time.
• 1:09:04
  This time I get to be super positive and foursome in my
• 1:09:07
  praise and love and joy. Tom is simply the Dom, the OG.
• 1:09:11
  Oh, we've learned that. The GOAT.
• 1:09:13
  Oh God, what's GOAT? Greatest of all time.
• 1:09:15
  Greatest of all time. Thank you and another praise
• 1:09:19
  Daki to use these days. He is my favorite doctor by
• 1:09:22
  1,000,000 miles. He's the best.
• 1:09:24
  The ultimate. A gentleman of scholar and an
• 1:09:26
  Acrobat is the definite Dr. Oh sorry, the definitive Dr.
• 1:09:30
  towering above all the others, Classic and modern.
• 1:09:33
  To be honest, I don't even know if I'm actually a fan of classic
• 1:09:35
  Who, rather just a fan of classic Tom Who.
• 1:09:38
  He's so charismatic, so charming, so fun, so funny, so
• 1:09:42
  alien. He can do comedy, anger, he can
• 1:09:45
  do it all. I don't know if he's necessarily
• 1:09:47
  a great actor, but he's an incredible presence on the
• 1:09:50
  screen and was right right from his first appearance.
• 1:09:53
  He was brilliant all the way through his run.
• 1:09:55
  Why would you ever want to go on an adventure with anyone other
• 1:09:59
  than the amazing Tom Baker? Plus, he's a Scouser like all
• 1:10:03
  the best people are. He's simply the best.
• 1:10:07
  It always confused me that he's from Liverpool because he really
• 1:10:09
  tamped down that accent, didn't he?
• 1:10:12
  Andrew Tyvell. Bumblebees.
• 1:10:16
  Tom could say a line like this with such conviction and
• 1:10:18
  mischievousness you couldn't help but loving his doctor.
• 1:10:22
  I also believe that 4 slash Leela was a great combination.
• 1:10:26
  Louise Jameson is a top notch foil for Tom Fangrock.
• 1:10:30
  Possibly the bleakest Who story ever.
• 1:10:32
  I think Louise Jameson is perhaps the best actor to ever
• 1:10:36
  play a companion, at least in the classic series.
• 1:10:38
  At least in the classic series, she's fantastic.
• 1:10:41
  I'd punt for Jacqueline Hill, but I think they're on par.
• 1:10:46
  I'm glad the Welsh guy got to read the word bumblebees as
• 1:10:48
  well. Can I just throw that out there?
• 1:10:49
  I think that's brilliant. You're welcome.
• 1:10:52
  John Benshalia says the best doctor, no question.
• 1:10:57
  Tom Baker perfectly captured the idea of the benevolent alien and
• 1:11:01
  played him to perfection. Those seven seasons are the ones
• 1:11:04
  I return to time and again. Paul Dunn says my first doctor.
• 1:11:10
  An era of three parts. Brilliance, silly, then doom
• 1:11:13
  laden. All have their own merits.
• 1:11:15
  I think season 18 is my favorite.
• 1:11:18
  Tom Baker throughout his inventive, engaging and living
• 1:11:21
  the part. Michael Storm says Once Upon a
• 1:11:25
  time I would have said that the 4th Doctor was the dog's
• 1:11:27
  bollocks and wouldn't tolerate any criticism.
• 1:11:30
  Looking back now, a lot of what I found so entertaining, the
• 1:11:32
  flippant remarks and excesses I find cringe worthy.
• 1:11:36
  I don't enjoy Tom in seasons 15 and 17 anymore.
• 1:11:39
  The Hinchcliffe era is rightfully lauded and it's and
• 1:11:43
  it's such a pity that Doctor Harry Sarah lineup didn't last.
• 1:11:46
  But I think seasons 16 and 18 where Tom is at is most
• 1:11:50
  interesting. And dare I say it, but Mary Tams
• 1:11:53
  Romana. Did I read that right?
• 1:11:56
  Whatever, but Mary Tams Romana was a better foil for Toms than
• 1:12:00
  Lala's. But ultimately, Tom will always
• 1:12:03
  be my go to image of the Doctor and his era.
• 1:12:05
  A showcase of the best and worst elements of Classic Who.
• 1:12:08
  I mean, it's like I said, there is a general consensus right
• 1:12:11
  about this period being pretty top dollar.
• 1:12:15
  Well, we'll go back to the ham fam a little bit later on.
• 1:12:19
  Now we're going to come onto what I think is the most
• 1:12:22
  interesting part of these finale episodes, and that is, what do
• 1:12:26
  you think of the 4th Doctor himself?
• 1:12:29
  Stroke. Tom Baker's performance as the
• 1:12:32
  4th Doctor. Let's shake up the direction
• 1:12:35
  again. Paul, what do you think?
• 1:12:38
  I think yes. How do I sum it up?
• 1:12:42
  Alien. Unpredictable.
• 1:12:44
  Slightly scary. I think that's part of the
• 1:12:47
  problem. As a sensitive kid, this man who
• 1:12:50
  was the hero was actually probably as scary as some of
• 1:12:52
  the. Monster.
• 1:12:53
  For sure. And like I said before, if it
• 1:12:57
  wasn't for him, then I don't think I would be a Doctor Who
• 1:13:00
  fan. But it's the he's the one where
• 1:13:04
  basically you don't know where the Doctor ends and Tom Baker
• 1:13:08
  begins. It's there is somewhere, it's
• 1:13:12
  somewhere in between. He's he's Neva.
• 1:13:15
  He's both it's yeah, he lived, he lived the part.
• 1:13:21
  And As for the man I got, I got my, my 1 little Tom Baker
• 1:13:25
  anecdote which sums him up, I think years ago when I was
• 1:13:30
  involved in doing some conventions and I was going to
• 1:13:32
  be, I was the presenter and so was going to be announcing the
• 1:13:37
  day, basically introducing the day.
• 1:13:39
  And then Tom Baker was going to come on and do his piece.
• 1:13:41
  So we're in the green room and the organiser saying, right,
• 1:13:43
  well, Paul will go on and he will introduce the day and Tom,
• 1:13:46
  thinking that he meant I would introduce Tom, booms across the
• 1:13:52
  green room. Oh.
• 1:13:53
  Well. If I need an introduction then
• 1:13:56
  I'm at the wrong fucking convention and I think that sums
• 1:14:00
  him up as best I can. Oh my God.
• 1:14:06
  I mean, yeah, he is eccentric. I mean, have you seen him on?
• 1:14:10
  Like, who on earth is Tom? But he is the Doctor.
• 1:14:12
  I mean, there is no, there is no blurring of the lines.
• 1:14:18
  Well, let's switch across then to Jaron.
• 1:14:23
  Jaron, what do you think of the 4th Doctor?
• 1:14:27
  I would say that even though this is a competition, Doctor
• 1:14:31
  Who isn't a competition. But if Doctor Who were a
• 1:14:35
  competition peak, Tom Baker is the best doctor.
• 1:14:39
  He is the most doctorish Dr. He's not playing the doctor, he
• 1:14:43
  is the doctor. Just touch these two strands
• 1:14:46
  together and the Daleks are finished.
• 1:14:51
  Have I that right to destroy the?
• 1:14:53
  Daleks, you can't doubt it. But I do you see some things
• 1:14:58
  could be better with the Daleks. Many future worlds will become
• 1:15:01
  allies just because of their fear of the Daleks.
• 1:15:04
  It isn't like that. But the final responsibility is
• 1:15:07
  mine, not mine alone. Listen, if someone who knew the
• 1:15:13
  future pointed out a child to you and told you that that child
• 1:15:17
  would grow up totally evil, to be a ruthless dictator who would
• 1:15:20
  destroy millions of lives, could you then kill that child?
• 1:15:25
  We're talking about the Daleks, the most evil creatures ever
• 1:15:28
  invented. You must destroy them.
• 1:15:30
  You must complete your mission for the Time Lords.
• 1:15:32
  Do I have the right? Simply touch one wire against
• 1:15:37
  the other and it's it. The Daleks cease to exist.
• 1:15:41
  Hundreds of millions of people, thousands of generations, can
• 1:15:45
  live without fear, in peace and never even know the word Dalek
• 1:15:50
  then. Why wait?
• 1:15:52
  If it was a disease or some sort of bacteria you would destroy,
• 1:15:54
  you wouldn't hesitate. But if I kill wipe out a whole
• 1:15:58
  intelligent life form then I become like them.
• 1:16:02
  I'd be no better than the Daleks.
• 1:16:04
  All that said, I think he is a great actor because I always
• 1:16:09
  felt everything he was selling, the graveness in his voice.
• 1:16:14
  Plenty of people have spoken about his voice, that sonorous
• 1:16:17
  quality. When he sold Danger and the end
• 1:16:22
  of the Universe, you believe it. You don't see the line where the
• 1:16:26
  actor starts and the performance begins, and I think that's
• 1:16:31
  really quite underrated as a part of his skill set.
• 1:16:37
  A lot of people wouldn't be able to play themselves, as it were,
• 1:16:41
  and have it feel like a natural thing that he's able to tap
• 1:16:45
  into. That part of his personality, or
• 1:16:47
  maybe his entire personality is something very special, I think.
• 1:16:52
  I think that's why people think of him as kind of definitive and
• 1:16:57
  as indivisible from his performance.
• 1:17:02
  There are periods in his era. It goes on for a long time.
• 1:17:07
  There are periods when he isn't performing and it's just Tom
• 1:17:11
  Baker. But when he puts in that graft,
• 1:17:15
  I think he's as good as anyone who's ever played the Doctor.
• 1:17:18
  I know people talk about Pierre Capaldi and they talk about
• 1:17:22
  Pierre Davison because he's gone on to do so much other work.
• 1:17:25
  But nobody has sold me on being the Doctor more than Tom Baker
• 1:17:31
  and I, I think he's a a fantastic performer and an
• 1:17:36
  underrated actor and he is a star.
• 1:17:40
  And that's what Doctor Who needs as its lead.
• 1:17:43
  It needs a star, I think. Is it the first time Doctor Who
• 1:17:47
  has made a star in that sort of way?
• 1:17:51
  Because he was, he was working on a building site, right?
• 1:17:54
  He was, he was working, but he was working sporadically and
• 1:17:57
  then all of a sudden he was headlining news for seven years,
• 1:18:03
  right? His biggest part was his first
• 1:18:06
  big part, I suppose, and it became as definitive in his life
• 1:18:09
  as he became in the role as the Doctor, I suppose.
• 1:18:13
  Yeah, even he's very hard to separate them.
• 1:18:16
  Even he can't accept that there are other doctors, other
• 1:18:18
  doctors, other. Doctors he.
• 1:18:22
  Doesn't I'll I'll jump in quickly next because the other
• 1:18:24
  word I was going to go for, if it wasn't for confounding, was
• 1:18:27
  confidence. I don't think there is a more
• 1:18:30
  confident Doctor than Tom Baker, and he strides through these
• 1:18:35
  stories with such blazing assuredness and fearlessness.
• 1:18:40
  A lot of the time you have no doubt in your mind, no matter
• 1:18:44
  how bad things get and how bad, he can sell them.
• 1:18:48
  And he can. Then it's the most brilliant
• 1:18:52
  piece of Astro gravitational engineering I've ever seen.
• 1:18:56
  The concept of simply staggering.
• 1:18:58
  Pointless, but staggering. Gratified that you appreciate
• 1:19:01
  it. Appreciate it.
• 1:19:04
  Appreciate it. Would you commit mass
• 1:19:07
  destruction and murder on a scale that's almost
• 1:19:09
  inconceivable? And you ask me to appreciate it
• 1:19:12
  just because you happen to have made a brilliantly conceived toy
• 1:19:15
  after the mummified remains a planet?
• 1:19:18
  Terrible storms, Doctor. It is not a toy.
• 1:19:21
  What's it for? What are you doing?
• 1:19:26
  What could possibly be worth all this?
• 1:19:29
  That that wonderful scene, the pirate planet.
• 1:19:31
  Do you remember when he whispers to Romana?
• 1:19:33
  We stumbled on one of the greatest crimes This, you know,
• 1:19:36
  this Galaxy has ever seen, and you really can sell it.
• 1:19:39
  But you've got no doubt at all that this insanely clever man is
• 1:19:43
  going to find a way out of it. I also think Tom, more than even
• 1:19:49
  David Tennant, who I said in the in the 10th Doctor episode, I
• 1:19:53
  think he has the ability to sell any situation, no matter how
• 1:19:58
  absurd it is. Techno Babble, trips off his
• 1:20:02
  tongues, crazy ideas, he can get them across to the kids gags no
• 1:20:07
  matter how good and bad they are, he will make them funny.
• 1:20:11
  I just think he has. It feels effortless.
• 1:20:14
  It feels like he hasn't read the script and he's just walked in
• 1:20:17
  and improvised his way through these bloody stories.
• 1:20:20
  It just feels, it's just, it's astonishingly good.
• 1:20:23
  But my favorite thing about Tom is that he's funny.
• 1:20:28
  He's so funny and I think at his best he's the funniest doctor of
• 1:20:33
  all. Whether that is the sly, biting
• 1:20:36
  wit of the Hinchcliffe ears, whether it's the tongue twisting
• 1:20:40
  quick repartee of the Williams years, or the gentle irony that
• 1:20:44
  sort of sleep during the JNT season, man, he's funny.
• 1:20:50
  And I will always point to that scene in The Stones of Blood
• 1:20:55
  where he's, it's just an exposition scene.
• 1:20:57
  He's making the bloody thing with Amelia Rumford in Vivian
• 1:21:02
  Faye's living room. And he's just been cute and
• 1:21:05
  funny and charming and so eccentric.
• 1:21:09
  At one point he just screams out of nowhere.
• 1:21:12
  You're like, what the fuck's going on?
• 1:21:14
  He's he. He is a revelation.
• 1:21:16
  I think as Doctor Who. We've never forgotten him.
• 1:21:20
  You know, there's a dark day coming one day, folks, and we
• 1:21:24
  will never, ever forget Tom Baker as the Doctor.
• 1:21:28
  I think he's magnificent, Toby. Tom Baker is the Doctor.
• 1:21:37
  I mean, he was born to play Doctor Who.
• 1:21:40
  I've for many years, I've always said, oh, but my favorite doctor
• 1:21:43
  is a tie between Patrick Troughton and a Tom Baker.
• 1:21:46
  I think that's partially because I, I, I didn't want to submit to
• 1:21:50
  the cliche that your first doctor is your favorite doctor.
• 1:21:52
  And I've, I've always admired Trouten and his acting and that,
• 1:21:56
  that sort of impish Pixie that he does so well.
• 1:21:59
  That just seems a characterization that comes out
• 1:22:01
  of nowhere. And he's so right for the Doctor
• 1:22:03
  and, and, and sets the template for, you know, how we view Dr.
• 1:22:07
  Who having taken it over from the show's instigator.
• 1:22:11
  And Trouten is a really splendid actor.
• 1:22:14
  And he does the he does what Tom Baker does is he's very, very
• 1:22:18
  good at balancing the darkness with the humour.
• 1:22:22
  But I, if I have to be honest with myself, much as I like the
• 1:22:27
  idea of going, yes, Patrick Travis, Tom Baker's the best
• 1:22:30
  doctor. I think Hinchcliffe era Tom
• 1:22:34
  Baker is the best doctor. Unfortunately, in my game,
• 1:22:40
  people may not be aware I actually earn my living as a
• 1:22:42
  stand up comedian. This Doctor Who likes a hobby
• 1:22:45
  that got out of hand. There are comedians who are
• 1:22:51
  there's a lot. This country is full of really
• 1:22:52
  good comedians. And a lot of them are, you know,
• 1:22:55
  solid pros who can do the job. And as somebody that compares
• 1:23:00
  the same place every week in books, acts and that sort of
• 1:23:02
  thing, you, you, you like a solid pro who can do the job,
• 1:23:06
  but you get the occasional genius who, when they're on
• 1:23:09
  song, wins over a whole room and creates an experience you will
• 1:23:14
  never have again. But that same comedian can make
• 1:23:19
  a whole room hate them. Whereas a solid pro might make
• 1:23:23
  both of those rooms just have quite a nice evening.
• 1:23:26
  And there is something of that in Tom Baker in the at his best,
• 1:23:32
  he gives you something as Doctor Who because he is an alien.
• 1:23:37
  Tom Baker, I believe, is an alien in a way that I, I'm not
• 1:23:42
  sure I believe the others are. They will occasionally channel
• 1:23:47
  an alien quality or assume a bit of alien mysteriousness.
• 1:23:51
  Tom Baker's a fucking alien. Once Upon a time, there were
• 1:24:00
  three sisters, and they lived in the bottom of a Chico whale.
• 1:24:05
  Their names are Olga, Masha and Irena.
• 1:24:08
  Are you listening to me? I'm.
• 1:24:10
  Sarah. Sarah.
• 1:24:12
  I feel disorientated. This is the.
• 1:24:13
  Disorientation Centre. That makes sense come.
• 1:24:16
  On And that means he will give you a moment of G like you're
• 1:24:19
  brilliant or there's a moment of absolute genius.
• 1:24:24
  But sometimes he'll also do a bit where you go that's an actor
• 1:24:27
  getting away with murder and everyone's a bit scared of him.
• 1:24:30
  But is that the price that you pay?
• 1:24:34
  I mean, I, I, I does the, the, the professional in me wants to
• 1:24:38
  push back against that because I, part of me goes, no, you can
• 1:24:43
  be brilliant and behave your Sir.
• 1:24:45
  It doesn't have to because I think it's sometimes used to
• 1:24:47
  excuse bad behavior. And we know that Tom Baker also,
• 1:24:50
  much as we love him and, and I've, and I've been in his
• 1:24:54
  company where he's been brilliant and generous and kind
• 1:24:56
  and benevolent, You know, we also know that he can be a
• 1:25:00
  monster. And I don't think there's any
• 1:25:01
  excuse for that. And I, and I think, you know,
• 1:25:05
  the industry allows too much of that under the, under the, that,
• 1:25:12
  that unspoken rule that somebody's a genius.
• 1:25:14
  And and quite often they're not either.
• 1:25:16
  Tom Baker, I think is So therefore I'm in slightly 2
• 1:25:19
  minds because I think, well, he he genuine.
• 1:25:21
  There are actors I've worked with that aren't geniuses who
• 1:25:23
  are assholes, who just get away with being assholes.
• 1:25:25
  You go, Oh no, they're just an asshole.
• 1:25:28
  But TomTom Baker is a is is touched with mad genius.
• 1:25:34
  I just wish he'd been maybe controlled slightly better by by
• 1:25:41
  by Graham Williams, because I think the synthesis of him and
• 1:25:44
  Douglas Adams at its best is is amazing.
• 1:25:47
  And I think I think, but can you control genius?
• 1:25:50
  Well, I don't know. I don't know.
• 1:25:51
  I think you can. Dennis Potter was a genius, but
• 1:25:53
  when he had directors that really made him pushed back, bit
• 1:25:57
  like Act Louise Jameson rehearsal push back on you, he
• 1:26:02
  actually showed a bit of respect, got his act together.
• 1:26:06
  And Dennis Potter did that as well with Singing Detective,
• 1:26:09
  which is. Chris Barry do it as well?
• 1:26:10
  Didn't he do it in? He hadn't seen him for a while,
• 1:26:13
  had he? Since the brain of Morbius and
• 1:26:15
  Tom was trying to direct the show?
• 1:26:16
  And Chris Barry, should I just go to lunch?
• 1:26:19
  Do you want to take over? Well, that said, I think Tom is
• 1:26:22
  quite wayward in it's creature from the pit.
• 1:26:25
  But, but we do. But I think that said, we then
• 1:26:28
  therefore do forget something which you know and rightly
• 1:26:30
  pointed out is that he's a fine actor and more importantly, he's
• 1:26:34
  a fine classical actor. And I do think that classic
• 1:26:38
  Doctor Who needs people who have a sort of Shakespearean heft
• 1:26:42
  because they are filling in the gaps that the scenery and the,
• 1:26:45
  and the, the flatness of videotape and, and, and, and the
• 1:26:48
  gap we have between how things look then and what we expect
• 1:26:51
  them to look like now. You need that and you needed it
• 1:26:54
  then as well, because that's how television work.
• 1:26:56
  That's why acting was, was, you know, as much about diction and
• 1:26:59
  clarity as it was, It was about anything.
• 1:27:01
  It's much more stagey on on on the television screen, but it it
• 1:27:06
  needed that because because it was closer to to making a play
• 1:27:10
  than television now, which is like making a film.
• 1:27:13
  And and I think that classical heft that he brings So and it's
• 1:27:16
  but little choices that he makes like no tea.
• 1:27:20
  Ari, you know where there's a sudden.
• 1:27:23
  Rob Sherman described it brilliantly to me in Running
• 1:27:26
  Through Cottages, Quiet danger, and there's a quiet danger about
• 1:27:30
  Tom. So that even though, and often
• 1:27:32
  at his best, like in a story, we're going to talk about
• 1:27:35
  androids of Tara, the flippancy and the humor is, is there
• 1:27:39
  actually as a weapon that's as much of A weapon as to to make,
• 1:27:43
  which is what Troughton does to make the enemy underestimated.
• 1:27:47
  And nobody could be as stupid as he seems.
• 1:27:49
  You know that. And and when it's there, when
• 1:27:52
  it's got that edge, that's where Baker's edge comes in.
• 1:27:55
  But sometimes his edge is horrible.
• 1:27:57
  But interestingly, as somebody who grew up with season 17 and
• 1:28:01
  18 in particular, I didn't notice only when I went back to
• 1:28:04
  season 18, and, you know, when I remember Vash dying, being, oh,
• 1:28:08
  my God, Vash is dead. I didn't remember Doctor Who
• 1:28:11
  going, yeah, poor Vash. You know, he doesn't care.
• 1:28:15
  And he could be cold and dismissive.
• 1:28:18
  And I have to say, as a kid, I did not read that Doctor Who was
• 1:28:22
  the fun wizard guy was the hero. And and maybe that's where the
• 1:28:26
  rewards come in that we rewatch this stuff so often is you, you
• 1:28:29
  then see those elements of Tom Baker.
• 1:28:31
  But then of course, I went through adulthood, you know,
• 1:28:35
  experiencing the Tom Baker not doing the five doctors, not
• 1:28:37
  wanting to talk about doctor or when he did it do an interview.
• 1:28:40
  He was a bit obtuse and a bit, you know, he could be a bit.
• 1:28:43
  And suddenly I, I sort of felt a certain frontier towards him
• 1:28:47
  sort of going, oh, come on, you, can't you just be nice?
• 1:28:49
  You're Doctor, Doctor. But now, of course, he's lovable
• 1:28:52
  Tom again. And we love him and he's
• 1:28:54
  shrinking before our eyes and being mad.
• 1:28:57
  And he is magical. And I've had the pleasure of
• 1:29:00
  doing stuff with him and he's been very kind to me.
• 1:29:04
  I've also seen that other side of him, not to the extent of how
• 1:29:08
  he was when he was at his worst on Doctor Who, but I've seen
• 1:29:10
  that edge. I've seen that slight
• 1:29:12
  difficulty. I've, I've witnessed his or
• 1:29:15
  because he's so Olympian, that sort of almost casualty.
• 1:29:18
  I, I, I always think of Gloucester's lied in King Lear
• 1:29:23
  not to be pretentious, which I am now being, I'm aware, which
• 1:29:25
  is why I have just used the word not to be pretentious as I'm
• 1:29:28
  just about to be. When doesn't Gloucester say
• 1:29:31
  something like as flies to wanton gods, are we as flies to
• 1:29:35
  wanton boys, are we to the gods? They mock us.
• 1:29:37
  They kill us for their sport. And, and you know, Tom Baker
• 1:29:42
  could break our hearts so easily.
• 1:29:46
  And sometimes he does. Sometimes you can see him do it
• 1:29:49
  to someone and you go, oh, you didn't need to do that.
• 1:29:52
  And you know the power. And maybe he doesn't because
• 1:29:54
  maybe he does exist on a on another plane.
• 1:29:56
  But maybe again, that is part of what we get because he's so
• 1:30:00
  magnificent. We have to we have to deal with
• 1:30:03
  a bit of that. But that Olympian detachment
• 1:30:06
  that is, is a phrase that has been used about him does mean
• 1:30:11
  that he is this amazing fairy tale hero that we kind of need
• 1:30:15
  that gives Doctor Who that matches Doctor Who's ambition
• 1:30:19
  because Doctor Who isn't set in a drawing room.
• 1:30:21
  Doctor Who is about all of time and space and everything in
• 1:30:24
  between. You need somebody with a bit of
• 1:30:26
  heft and and not somebody going oh, it's best brilliant.
• 1:30:31
  And I and I think Tom Baker fills the gaps.
• 1:30:36
  I think, and I think we forget sometimes because he's such a
• 1:30:40
  good Doctor Who that actually as he's a fine dramatic actor when
• 1:30:45
  he when he really, really wants to be and, and, and I think and
• 1:30:50
  the humour and he's so funny and just the way he says hello,
• 1:30:54
  hello, be surprising and funny and brilliant.
• 1:30:57
  And when he's when he's got rapport with people, you can
• 1:31:00
  tell when he's enjoying Beatrix Lehman in the same way that you
• 1:31:03
  could tell when he's being dismissive of some poor sod
• 1:31:05
  that's trying to keep up with him.
• 1:31:08
  But when it, when he really is In Sync with Louise Jameson and
• 1:31:13
  well, he's In Sync with Elizabeth Sladen.
• 1:31:16
  I love that pairing and and whatever.
• 1:31:18
  I know Louise had a hard time working with him, but but
• 1:31:22
  sometimes that that chemistry that they have, that volatility
• 1:31:25
  really works. I think there's no better
• 1:31:27
  pairing than him and Louise in horror Fang rock.
• 1:31:32
  I just think I, I think that that chemistry that they have in
• 1:31:36
  that and and the way that it's written and played is, is just
• 1:31:39
  magic. He's great.
• 1:31:41
  Frustrating, beguiling, compelling, surprising, heroic.
• 1:31:49
  Never. Very rarely.
• 1:31:51
  Boring. Never.
• 1:31:52
  Yeah, it's. Great, never boring.
• 1:31:57
  Swell. I I think sometimes the
• 1:32:01
  overindulgence is in danger of being boring.
• 1:32:03
  Like I once saw a documentary about, I think it was about
• 1:32:06
  Francis Bacon or Jeffrey Bernard or one of those and Tom Baker's
• 1:32:10
  at the bar because they all get pissed in Soho.
• 1:32:13
  Toby's go. Well, the reason I come to the
• 1:32:15
  pub and get drunk is because people are so boring, aren't
• 1:32:17
  they? And I just thought, no, I think,
• 1:32:20
  I think you're being quite I, I, I think that intelligence that
• 1:32:24
  makes him so interesting. And I love that, the fact that
• 1:32:26
  Doctor Who celebrates intelligence and Tom Baker is
• 1:32:29
  clearly a very intelligent man. I think you can tip over if you
• 1:32:33
  go too far into thinking that your intelligence means you
• 1:32:36
  always have to be listened to. And that's why I like the Doctor
• 1:32:40
  and Leela actually is because she has an instinctive
• 1:32:43
  intelligence, not an intellectual one.
• 1:32:45
  And she can sometimes actually. And I think it's important that
• 1:32:47
  the show does that balance, otherwise you tip into
• 1:32:52
  pomposity. And that can be a, that could be
• 1:32:54
  a killer with Doctor Who. I think sometimes when it's
• 1:32:56
  written by somebody who swallowed A thesaurus, you know?
• 1:32:59
  Well, he'll dismiss those instincts and then she'll prove
• 1:33:02
  to be right. That is interesting, yeah.
• 1:33:04
  Yeah, but I, I think he's amazing.
• 1:33:06
  I think he is. If, if you say Doctor Who, I
• 1:33:11
  think of Tom Baker. And there's a reason for that,
• 1:33:14
  not just because he was my first.
• 1:33:17
  Well, Matt, now we've had so much love for the 4th Doctor and
• 1:33:21
  Tom Baker here, you, you were the one that was the least
• 1:33:25
  convinced about the era. What about the Doctor?
• 1:33:31
  Yeah, don't worry. I love him.
• 1:33:32
  I think he's great. So I know.
• 1:33:34
  Well, I think like with the with the first three doctors, they
• 1:33:37
  were all bless you Toby with they were all, they're all
• 1:33:42
  eccentric in their own way. Obviously the first 3, but I
• 1:33:45
  think Tom Baker's the first one that comes in and he's just an
• 1:33:48
  outright weirdo, which I think obviously is a lasting trait of
• 1:33:52
  the doctor going forward after this.
• 1:33:54
  I think it's really great. And obviously that's quite
• 1:33:56
  relatable for a lot of fans as well, which is probably why he's
• 1:33:58
  a favorite of a lot of people I think as well.
• 1:34:01
  I think he's got quite a, a sort of domineering presence, but not
• 1:34:05
  in a, not in a obnoxious way. You know, he's sort of you don't
• 1:34:08
  get, well, I don't get pissed off with him and think, oh, what
• 1:34:11
  a, what a, you know, stop taking over.
• 1:34:13
  He's, you know, he's, he's on it in that sense.
• 1:34:16
  And he's charismatic and magnetic.
• 1:34:21
  He's distant and unknowable. And it sometimes it comes across
• 1:34:25
  as like he's above the stories he's in, which is probably
• 1:34:28
  because Tom Baker thought he was above the stories he's in.
• 1:34:30
  But and that translates onto the character in in but, but in a
• 1:34:33
  good way, in a way that sort of works.
• 1:34:36
  He, he rejects authority like no other doctor does.
• 1:34:39
  I really like that trait. And I, I think that could have
• 1:34:41
  been a really good source of drama if he carried on more with
• 1:34:44
  UNIT as well. I think that could have worked
• 1:34:46
  really well that that had a missed opportunity there.
• 1:34:47
  Really, I prefer the characterisation that we get in
• 1:34:54
  the in season 16 and 17 actually.
• 1:34:58
  I think he's so much fun. I think he he, he is a bit over
• 1:35:04
  the top. Well, no, he's, he's very over
• 1:35:06
  the top. But I, I, I think he's got a
• 1:35:09
  real talent for comedy. As you said, Joe, I think it it,
• 1:35:12
  I think he should have had a big career in comedy.
• 1:35:14
  I know he was obviously the voice of Little Britain and he
• 1:35:16
  was in the episode of Blackadder and things like that.
• 1:35:18
  But I, I think if, if Doctor Who wasn't his calling, I think
• 1:35:21
  comedy should have been it really.
• 1:35:24
  Whereas I think in the Hinchley here, yeah, OK, he's a he's a
• 1:35:27
  bit more subtle and a bit more measured, but I think the
• 1:35:32
  exaggerated version just works so well.
• 1:35:33
  And I just can't take my eyes off him when he's on screen.
• 1:35:36
  And he raises a lot of not great stories we have.
• 1:35:39
  The power to do anything we like.
• 1:35:42
  Absolute power over every particle in the universe,
• 1:35:45
  Everything that has ever existed or ever will exist as from this
• 1:35:49
  moment. Are you listening to me, Romana?
• 1:35:52
  Yes, of. Course, I'm listening.
• 1:35:54
  If you're not listening, I can make you listen because I can do
• 1:35:57
  anything as from this moment. There's no such thing as free
• 1:36:00
  will in the entire universe. There's only my will because I
• 1:36:04
  possess the key to time, Doctor. Are you all right?
• 1:36:07
  Well, of course I'm all right. I suppose I wasn't all right.
• 1:36:09
  I think Creature from the Pit, I think he's absolutely incredible
• 1:36:12
  in that. And I and I love the story as a
• 1:36:14
  result. And then, yeah, in Big Mead,
• 1:36:18
  he's he does seem a bit bored at times.
• 1:36:20
  And obviously he's not getting on with Lada Ward.
• 1:36:22
  And he just, yeah, it feels a bit.
• 1:36:24
  I think by the time he gets to Lagopoulos, he's it's like, what
• 1:36:27
  are you still doing here? He says it's like, you know,
• 1:36:29
  doesn't quite work. So he did maybe stay a bit too
• 1:36:31
  long. But at the same time, I like
• 1:36:33
  have him in him as a sort of bridge across the two eras and
• 1:36:36
  rather than it just being a hard cut between 17 and 18, you know,
• 1:36:40
  sort of thing. So so yeah, no, no, no real
• 1:36:42
  negativity for for me really about a couple of things.
• 1:36:45
  Don't worry, you stand down. I think he's, I think he's one
• 1:36:49
  of the best. He's not necessarily a personal
• 1:36:50
  favorite, but he's definitely up there.
• 1:36:52
  I mean, there's strong competition.
• 1:36:54
  So, yeah, great, I think. I I do think in 18, like he is
• 1:37:01
  giving a performance again. I think Tom Baker is there in
• 1:37:05
  the Williams era. For the most part, Tom Baker is
• 1:37:07
  dazzling us, whereas the Doctor's kind of back.
• 1:37:09
  But there are moments in that last season where they make him
• 1:37:13
  old, they make the alien cactus version of him a lot more fun.
• 1:37:18
  Warriors Gate ends with the unthinkable, that Tom Baker's
• 1:37:22
  doctor has to do nothing at the climax of the story and just
• 1:37:26
  leave, you know, So it does feel like they are finding all kinds
• 1:37:30
  of ways to to work around Tom's excesses.
• 1:37:34
  Why do you think you get some great a bit where he reacts to
• 1:37:37
  the masked child's death in full circle?
• 1:37:40
  That anger in that is extraordinary.
• 1:37:42
  And oh, he's having a whale of a time in the State of Decay as
• 1:37:46
  well. He's loving those lines.
• 1:37:48
  Well, OK, a lot of love for Tom Baker's doctor there.
• 1:37:51
  I think at least four of us said he is the OG, although once
• 1:37:56
  again I've forgotten what that means.
• 1:37:58
  Thank. You should.
• 1:38:00
  We head back to the Ham fam and see what they have to say.
• 1:38:04
  We'll do the last batch of comments now.
• 1:38:07
  We'll go in the same order and I will start with Anthony Carroll.
• 1:38:12
  That's the non Scottish Anthony Carroll, the one who likes all
• 1:38:15
  the murders in Doctor Who. He says the best doctor.
• 1:38:19
  Mad, funny, Moody, brilliant seasons 12 to 14, a sublime
• 1:38:24
  worst season 17. I became a fan during 18
• 1:38:28
  throwing Sarah and Leila as well.
• 1:38:30
  Hashtag simply the best. And of course, good death counts
• 1:38:35
  as well. Of course.
• 1:38:38
  Gareth Boli says succinctly. The 4th Doctor era.
• 1:38:44
  It's OK and. Then, after my own heart,
• 1:38:48
  Gareth. Toby.
• 1:38:51
  Can do the impression if he wants to.
• 1:38:53
  Oh yeah. 4th Doctor Zero. It's OK.
• 1:38:58
  Thank you. Give me a big.
• 1:39:03
  Oh, big, big. Give me an orange.
• 1:39:06
  Orange. Give me a Michael.
• 1:39:09
  Michael the fan pair will be there somewhere.
• 1:39:12
  I don't know what big orange Michael sounds like.
• 1:39:14
  So today as as he's. American, I think, isn't he.
• 1:39:18
  I think he's American. Yes.
• 1:39:19
  Well, as the actor Michael Bryant said, when he was doing
• 1:39:23
  the Wind in the Willows at the National Theatre and they were
• 1:39:25
  all sent away with videotapes of the the animals that they were
• 1:39:29
  playing. And on the Monday they were
• 1:39:31
  told, right. So you've watched your
• 1:39:32
  videotapes of the animals who play what, you know, what have
• 1:39:35
  you got from that? And they all went round and
• 1:39:37
  said, oh, well, I think, you know, a toad does this and I
• 1:39:39
  think a mole does this. And Michael Bryant said, well, I
• 1:39:42
  think I've come to the conclusion that Badgers move
• 1:39:45
  very much like the actor Michael Bryant.
• 1:39:51
  So I think Big Orange Michael is going to sound very much like
• 1:39:55
  Toby Haydock. Tom Baker, he says, is the
• 1:39:59
  iconic version of the Doctor, the one by which all others are
• 1:40:03
  measured, for good or bad. He's probably the version most
• 1:40:07
  associated with the classic role, especially in the US,
• 1:40:11
  where some of his seasons ran in perpetual repeat in the 80s.
• 1:40:15
  Started with Zygons, so I was in an era that produced some
• 1:40:19
  consistently great stories. Maker's doctor entered any
• 1:40:24
  situation and just took over. You knew this doctor wasn't
• 1:40:27
  going to be defeated or plused by just about any foe or
• 1:40:33
  situation. I've never used the word.
• 1:40:36
  In that situation before. Defeated or plused by just about
• 1:40:41
  any? Yes, I'm.
• 1:40:44
  I'm not combobulated by that. We're learning a lot of words
• 1:40:49
  today, aren't we? We are, aren't we?
• 1:40:52
  OK, Matt Lee Newby says this could be complicated and
• 1:40:57
  potentially unpopular. Oh boy.
• 1:40:59
  Well. Tom as a doctor I prefer in his
• 1:41:01
  earlier stories he takes the part and makes it very different
• 1:41:04
  to Pertwee. His performance is one of the
• 1:41:06
  very few good things about robots and I think the run of
• 1:41:10
  stories where he's accompanied by Liz and Ian amongst his best.
• 1:41:14
  By season 13 he's starting to relax into the role and over the
• 1:41:16
  next three seasons his performance slides.
• 1:41:19
  The slightly spiky relationship with Leela stroke.
• 1:41:21
  Louise tempers season 15, but in season 16 I simply find him
• 1:41:25
  annoying. Conversely, I think season 17
• 1:41:28
  sees him at his best after season 12, and I think that's
• 1:41:31
  entirely down to the presence of Lala at his side and Douglas
• 1:41:34
  Adams overseeing scripts. Adams brings direction to Tom's
• 1:41:38
  frequent silliness and controls it so that there is a balance of
• 1:41:41
  comedy and drama. By season 18, I think Tom stayed
• 1:41:44
  too long. It is a roller coaster with you,
• 1:41:47
  Matt Lee Newby Well. Joe I just had a thought because
• 1:41:51
  I was wondering why when I said he's never boring and then I
• 1:41:54
  checked myself, I I do think he runs the risk of occasionally
• 1:41:57
  being a bore, as in B double OR. Oh, sort of.
• 1:42:02
  Overpowering, yeah, which which is slightly related to boring
• 1:42:06
  because it's because it's sort of tedious in it's sort of over
• 1:42:11
  overbearing nature. I think that's what I was.
• 1:42:15
  I was leaning into there even. In Underworld though, I feel as
• 1:42:19
  if he he shines bright, he still gets moments.
• 1:42:22
  Yeah, he's not. Many, but yeah.
• 1:42:24
  He's he's certainly committed to, to, to, to keeping it
• 1:42:28
  interesting. Now, Matt, I just this it looks
• 1:42:33
  long. It was 12 times as long as this.
• 1:42:35
  OK, I've just cut this down considerably.
• 1:42:38
  Thank you for that. So Charlie Barnes says not just
• 1:42:44
  the Doctor, the Doctor. The definite article, you might
• 1:42:47
  say Tom was simply born to play the Doctor, and he arguably
• 1:42:51
  never stopped. It's like they cast a genuine
• 1:42:54
  alien. See also Robin Williams as Mork.
• 1:42:57
  His charisma, his voice, his magnetic screen presence, his
• 1:43:01
  natural eccentricity. The most iconic scarf in
• 1:43:05
  fiction. They all clicked.
• 1:43:07
  His character was one of contradictions, funny and
• 1:43:09
  brooding, charming and aloof, silly and righteous, flippant
• 1:43:13
  and philosophical. The interesting thing about his
• 1:43:16
  run is that it's practically a show on its own.
• 1:43:20
  Well, it is practically a show on its own, with different eras
• 1:43:22
  and tones under different creative teams, gothic horror,
• 1:43:25
  light whimsy, and hard sci-fi. This was the series.
• 1:43:29
  This was the series was its peak.
• 1:43:32
  OK, that one's not me. This.
• 1:43:34
  This is the series at its peak popularity, the best writing,
• 1:43:38
  the highest ratings, and creators willing to think big,
• 1:43:42
  for better and for worse. Overall, Tom Moore deserves his
• 1:43:45
  status. He and his era really were that
• 1:43:48
  good. Applause Charlie Barnes.
• 1:43:50
  I pretty much agree with everything he says there.
• 1:43:53
  Oh Christ, I was hoping I wouldn't get this one.
• 1:43:56
  Berlin Barber. What a name.
• 1:43:59
  What a fabulous name. Season 13 is the franchise high
• 1:44:03
  watermark, and to this day, Tom is still the pinnacle
• 1:44:06
  incarnation. Count Wibbley, My First Doctor.
• 1:44:11
  Pyramids Mars was the face maker, was the face of who from
• 1:44:16
  1974 to 2005, whoever the other doctors were, the roles sought
• 1:44:21
  him out and never let him go. Even when the story is boring
• 1:44:25
  really, or Tom is bored, he is never boring.
• 1:44:29
  Well, we've discussed that plenty.
• 1:44:31
  He was the first alien. Maybe he always will be the
• 1:44:34
  best. Edward Gillooly says TomTom
• 1:44:39
  would have had fun with that name.
• 1:44:42
  Edward Gillooly. Tom is the definitive Dr. The
• 1:44:46
  lines between Tom and the Doctor are forever blurred.
• 1:44:49
  His alienness is terrific. His performance changes over the
• 1:44:52
  years, but he's always brilliant.
• 1:44:54
  Seasons 12 to 14 are the golden age of the show.
• 1:44:57
  So many fantastic episodes arc in space.
• 1:45:00
  Zygons, Morbius, Robots of Death, and Talons are my
• 1:45:04
  personal favorites. My mention must also be made of
• 1:45:07
  Sarah and Leela, who are the two of the most fondly remembered
• 1:45:11
  companions for good reason. Seasons 18 Melancholic tone ends
• 1:45:16
  Tom's run on a high it's. Just magic, isn't he?
• 1:45:22
  I mean, I think that's the conclusion we've drawn here.
• 1:45:24
  He's just magic. Well, here we are.
• 1:45:28
  Now I shall read the list of winners plus the two runners up
• 1:45:37
  that we jammed into it due to some strategic cheating in the
• 1:45:41
  last rounds. Yeah, well, I think you would
• 1:45:44
  have been the only person listening and irritated by that.
• 1:45:46
  And you're on the call, so you know, we got away with it.
• 1:45:50
  I'm fine with it, OK. Good, good, good, good.
• 1:45:52
  OK, so our winners are. I don't want to hear any
• 1:45:55
  thoughts or sighs from you people.
• 1:45:56
  All right, these were the winners by Consensus.
• 1:46:00
  Robot Scientific New order. Come on.
• 1:46:07
  The Brain of Morbius. What a fantastic head.
• 1:46:11
  The Hand of fear, the Seas of Doom, the Talons of Wenchuiang,
• 1:46:16
  the Androids of Tara, City of Death and State of Decay.
• 1:46:24
  And let's Jake this direction again.
• 1:46:28
  Yoan, why don't you go first for the winner?
• 1:46:31
  Oh. God, this is tricky because none
• 1:46:36
  of the ones in the winners list, the original winners list were
• 1:46:40
  personal favourites. I like them all to varying
• 1:46:44
  degrees. You know, obviously recognized
• 1:46:47
  by City of Death and Andrew Zatara in particular regarding
• 1:46:49
  so highly. I've just never felt that
• 1:46:53
  reaction when watching them, and again, it's probably because the
• 1:46:57
  VHS release schedule, Brain and Morbius has never landed with me
• 1:47:02
  like it clearly does with others.
• 1:47:04
  I don't know if it's partly maybe because the Doctor and
• 1:47:07
  Sarah are separated for about 2/3 that story.
• 1:47:12
  I can recognise the strengths, but yeah, it just never hits me
• 1:47:16
  like I hope it might. State of Decay I actually think
• 1:47:20
  is a is a really solid story and it's great to have some Terran
• 1:47:23
  sticks in there, but it's a solid story in the middle of two
• 1:47:28
  better ones. Robot does its job, but I don't
• 1:47:32
  think it's anyone's best work. And the Dear Departed, Invasion
• 1:47:37
  of Time, I have a lot of affection for that story.
• 1:47:41
  It's mad. It's far too ambitious, as Dave
• 1:47:46
  and Bob often were, but the twist is genuinely surprising.
• 1:47:52
  I don't like how it ends with the Doctor building a big gun,
• 1:47:55
  and I don't think Doctor Who stories should end that way.
• 1:48:00
  If I was going to choose, if I was going to choose out of the
• 1:48:04
  list as it was, I probably would have gone for Hand of Fear,
• 1:48:07
  which is a story that has grown on me hugely over the years.
• 1:48:15
  It's just got fantastic location work, beautiful costumes.
• 1:48:21
  There's a palpable sense of danger and peril with the
• 1:48:24
  location, and it's got the greatest goodbye scene to a
• 1:48:29
  companion in the history of the show.
• 1:48:32
  I mean, it's pretty close there with Susan, I suppose.
• 1:48:36
  But yeah, this one's just beautiful.
• 1:48:40
  But I am going to stick with seeds.
• 1:48:42
  I started with seeds, so I'm going to stick with seeds as my
• 1:48:46
  choice. Do you want me to say anything
• 1:48:49
  else about seeds or No? No.
• 1:48:51
  No, that's absolutely fine. I have a feeling, you know what
• 1:48:55
  you predicted earlier may be the case.
• 1:48:57
  One of our runners up may win this, but I'm going to go next
• 1:49:01
  and leave it to the guests to sort of fight out for the last
• 1:49:04
  of these. I fucking love the brain of
• 1:49:07
  Morbius so much I cannot even describe it.
• 1:49:11
  I think it is playful and I think it is sick.
• 1:49:15
  I mean it's really sick. That brain slapping on the
• 1:49:18
  floor, the blood leaping out of Condos chest, the fact that he's
• 1:49:23
  got blood all over his tunic as Morbius throttles the life out
• 1:49:27
  of him with that massive fucking claw.
• 1:49:29
  It is. It is as dangerous, close to
• 1:49:31
  being as violently adult as I think the probably gets, but in
• 1:49:39
  the same breath is absolutely ridiculous.
• 1:49:42
  I mean, it's a monster made out of butchers leftovers for God's
• 1:49:46
  sakes. The Time Lords destroyed Morbius
• 1:49:57
  for his crimes here on Car. Morbius was executed for leading
• 1:50:02
  the rebellion. His body was placed in a
• 1:50:04
  dispersal chamber and atomized to the nine corners of the
• 1:50:07
  universe. The.
• 1:50:08
  Time was a spineless parasites. Morbius offered them greatness
• 1:50:11
  once, but he was betrayed and rejected.
• 1:50:13
  His pacifist degenerates will be the first to be the powerless
• 1:50:17
  revenge. But Time Lords will not oppose
• 1:50:20
  me again, nor the. This thing you've made is
• 1:50:25
  unspeakable. Abominus you.
• 1:50:27
  Must get me away from here. Morbius is dead, doctor, and you
• 1:50:31
  would have joined him with that ocean.
• 1:50:34
  When it is learned that I am obvious have returned from the
• 1:50:38
  grave, my followers will rise in their millions. 1000 years from
• 1:50:43
  now, people will remember someone's lost greatest
• 1:50:49
  operation. Every cliffhanger is a zinger.
• 1:50:57
  The first one where she pulls the curtain aside and that
• 1:51:00
  headless monster sits up. I mean, what kid would not want
• 1:51:04
  to watch episode 2? Do you know what I can't
• 1:51:06
  remember? The end of two.
• 1:51:07
  Oh, it's the fucking brain, isn't it?
• 1:51:09
  Bubbling away in the jar? Sarah Jane, blind as a bat.
• 1:51:12
  She can't see anything. And then the first one, the last
• 1:51:16
  one where she gets her sight back and the monsters coming up
• 1:51:19
  behind you. I mean, it's a literal he's
• 1:51:20
  behind you moment. Oh, it's having so much fun,
• 1:51:23
  this story. I think there's genuinely artful
• 1:51:27
  design in this and direction. I think Christopher Barry
• 1:51:31
  deliver some of his best work. Some of those shots in Morbius's
• 1:51:36
  lair, sort of tilted angles and then the Askew pillars.
• 1:51:40
  It looks like a really great Hammer Horror movie.
• 1:51:43
  I mean, I've seen worse looking Hammer Horror movies recently,
• 1:51:46
  if I'm honest. A hugely confident Doctor
• 1:51:50
  companion team. The bit where they come out the
• 1:51:52
  TARDIS, Tom's in a foul mood because he thinks the Time Laws
• 1:51:54
  has dragged them down. Sarah Jane's going, you know,
• 1:51:58
  it's very funny stuff when she's blinded by the ring and she's
• 1:52:02
  making the gags about selling violets and he's going to buy
• 1:52:06
  her. It's just great stuff.
• 1:52:08
  Between the two of them, she goes through hell in this story.
• 1:52:12
  Like absolute hell. The fact, the fact that she
• 1:52:14
  lists it all and then he says at the end, and you were knocked
• 1:52:17
  down a flight of stairs. I mean, it's all there.
• 1:52:20
  Philip Maddock won the single probably best villainous
• 1:52:24
  performance in Doctor Whoever. He just gets it.
• 1:52:28
  He gets that he's going to make it.
• 1:52:30
  Naturalistic enough so we believe it, but melodramatic
• 1:52:35
  enough so we're hugely entertained by it.
• 1:52:39
  Poor old condo. Perhaps I'll give him your hair
• 1:52:42
  as a memento. I mean, it's that's a casual
• 1:52:45
  sort of throwaway line. He's just delicious.
• 1:52:49
  I think Dudley knows what he's doing absolutely in this as
• 1:52:51
  well. I wonder if in some of the the
• 1:52:54
  more horrific moments, Philip Hinchcliffe said, can you make
• 1:52:58
  these scenes a little less violent?
• 1:53:02
  So when Condo shot, the music sort of going, yeah, it's like
• 1:53:07
  it's almost like place called bloody music kicking in.
• 1:53:09
  But I think it's trying to sort of temper just how violent that
• 1:53:13
  is and just that that sort of heady brew.
• 1:53:17
  And I think Robert Holmes does this so well of mixing horror
• 1:53:20
  cliches or horror tropes and Doctor Who mythology together.
• 1:53:26
  It's really enchanting. And there's a ton of women in
• 1:53:31
  it. There's a ton of women in a
• 1:53:32
  Hinchcliffe story, and they're great.
• 1:53:34
  Mad Ohiko with the staring eyes. Mar And is it Cynthia Grenville?
• 1:53:39
  She's extraordinary in that role and striding through this story
• 1:53:45
  like it isn't a series of mad horror cliches.
• 1:53:48
  Tom Baker, Man, oh man, could you spare a glass of water?
• 1:53:52
  He says, well, that's the raids coming on him.
• 1:53:54
  I'm still saying that all the time, Ding Dong as the net falls
• 1:53:58
  on his head. I mean, he's magnificent, you
• 1:54:01
  know, in the mind bending competition, the insults he
• 1:54:04
  throws to Morbius Chop Suey, the Galactic Emperor.
• 1:54:07
  I just think this is a in all of those sort of Horus pastiches.
• 1:54:13
  I think this is the most unique one of the lot.
• 1:54:15
  It sits almost directly in the middle of the Hinchliffe era is
• 1:54:19
  where their confidence is. That is all time high.
• 1:54:23
  I just think it's blissful. I get your own why it doesn't
• 1:54:25
  land for some people because it is astonishingly over the top in
• 1:54:29
  places. But you know me, I like camp
• 1:54:32
  Crazy Doctor Who, but I also like it down in the mother bit
• 1:54:36
  as well-being a bit violent and dirty and this has got all of
• 1:54:39
  it. It's just wonderful.
• 1:54:41
  The Brain of Morbius gets my vote.
• 1:54:45
  What do you got? Well, I'm going to be a bit of a
• 1:54:49
  basic bitch, really, and say City of Death, I think.
• 1:54:53
  I think it's just absolutely glorious, really.
• 1:54:55
  I think it's the perfect example of classic cooter show to non
• 1:54:59
  fans. I've done it three times and
• 1:55:00
  it's gone down to storm every single time to the point where
• 1:55:04
  once my parents are in the room and they they said to me, why,
• 1:55:07
  why are we watching this? Why am I enjoying this so much?
• 1:55:09
  This is unusual. I don't know why.
• 1:55:11
  I don't know why I'm getting so absorbed in it.
• 1:55:13
  You know, that kind of thing. So I like for one thing, I think
• 1:55:16
  it's the perfect entry point. I think it's Douglas Adams best
• 1:55:20
  work of his career, to be honest.
• 1:55:22
  I mean, I've not, I've not experienced all of Hitchhikers,
• 1:55:26
  but what I have experienced is that I, I love the humour that
• 1:55:30
  he brings, but I find his storytelling quite scattershot
• 1:55:34
  and unfocused. So in, whereas with City of
• 1:55:37
  Death, he's got the plot handed to him by David Fisher for the
• 1:55:39
  most part, which allows him to focus on, you know, the witty
• 1:55:42
  dialogue and the characterisation and things like
• 1:55:44
  that. So I think this is where he
• 1:55:45
  shines the best, really. Williams.
• 1:55:48
  Too, Williams was Ryan. He.
• 1:55:50
  Did his bit, he did his bit. He was a, he was a Co wrote
• 1:55:52
  Invasion of Time as well, wasn't it?
• 1:55:54
  So I think he's actually quite a good role, right.
• 1:55:56
  Then again, he did nightmare fare, didn't he?
• 1:55:57
  So maybe not. But anyway, So what else have we
• 1:56:05
  got here? The foreign location shoot,
• 1:56:06
  obviously that makes the show feel expansive in a way that it
• 1:56:09
  never has before. I mean, Can you imagine the
• 1:56:11
  Reign of Terror being shot in Paris?
• 1:56:13
  How different that would feel, you know?
• 1:56:16
  So this that just goes to show our father's show has come on a
• 1:56:18
  production level and obviously stands head and shoulders above
• 1:56:21
  the rest of the Williams era, which does look so 1 can.
• 1:56:24
  Relax entirely that bouquet. What palace has.
• 1:56:30
  It has an ethos, a life. It has a bouquet, a spirit all
• 1:56:35
  of its own. Like a wine, it has a bouquet.
• 1:56:39
  It has a bouquet. Like a good wine.
• 1:56:42
  You have to choose one of the vintage years, of course.
• 1:56:45
  What year is this? Well, it's 1979 actually.
• 1:56:49
  More of a table wine, should we say?
• 1:56:53
  Randomized is a useful device, but it lacks true
• 1:56:55
  discrimination. Should we sip it and see?
• 1:56:57
  Oh. Be delighted.
• 1:56:59
  Should we take the lift or fly? Let's not be ostentatious.
• 1:57:05
  All right, let's fly then. That would look silly.
• 1:57:09
  We'll take the lift. Come on.
• 1:57:20
  There we are. The Louvre, one of the greatest
• 1:57:22
  art galleries in the old Galaxy. The Academia Stellaris on series
• 1:57:27
  5 no. No.
• 1:57:29
  What the solarium penacative is strictium?
• 1:57:31
  Oh no. No.
• 1:57:33
  What? A Praxia Tell collection no.
• 1:57:34
  No, no, no, no, no, no. This is the gallery, the only
• 1:57:38
  gallery in the known universe which has a picture like the
• 1:57:42
  Mona Lisa. Quite good.
• 1:57:49
  That's one of the great dresses of the universe.
• 1:57:50
  And you say quite good. The.
• 1:57:52
  World Dr. The World. What are you talking about?
• 1:57:54
  Not the. Universe in public doctorate I
• 1:57:55
  don't care look it's. One of the great treasures of
• 1:57:57
  the universe. I didn't care.
• 1:57:59
  Let them go up. Let them gay.
• 1:58:00
  What do I care? Why hasn't she got any eyebrows?
• 1:58:09
  What is that all you can say? No eyebrows.
• 1:58:13
  Really, Although then again, I think as as a, as, as the
• 1:58:16
  youngest person on this call, I, I think that all of classically
• 1:58:20
  looks quite cheap really. They say it's only really a
• 1:58:22
  matter of degrees between the best and the worst really.
• 1:58:24
  So that is probably overstated, but but yeah, I think Tom and
• 1:58:29
  Lala's chemistry just absolutely oozes out of the screen.
• 1:58:32
  I, I actually feel like a third wheel watching them.
• 1:58:34
  I just tell you know, that, that there's something going on
• 1:58:38
  there. It's absolutely that.
• 1:58:39
  That's amazing. You've got Tom Chadbone and
• 1:58:44
  Julian Glover and you know that they knock it out the park as
• 1:58:47
  well. David Graham less so.
• 1:58:49
  I'm not because I was so convinced by his performance.
• 1:58:52
  It's a it's a choice, but he might.
• 1:58:55
  But want all the chickens? Is it?
• 1:58:58
  Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
• 1:59:00
  You've just demonstrated there why it's not the best.
• 1:59:05
  I am I right in. I remember reading once, but I
• 1:59:08
  couldn't find it when I was preparing for this.
• 1:59:09
  I was this the story that Russell T Davis used as an
• 1:59:12
  example to the BBC of this is how good Doctor Who can be and
• 1:59:16
  this is how we want to make it. If that's true, then this, this
• 1:59:20
  is this story is the template for modern Doctor Who.
• 1:59:22
  So I think for that reason alone, it should be the winner,
• 1:59:25
  really. I think as it brought us all of
• 1:59:26
  that great stuff. I think it's.
• 1:59:29
  Yeah, I, I think it's, it's basically a perfect story about
• 1:59:33
  as perfect as Doctor Who can get.
• 1:59:35
  And I think where's, well, Doctor Who is so lucky to have
• 1:59:38
  this be the story on air during that ITV strike and getting
• 1:59:42
  16,000,000 viewers. Can you imagine if it was, you
• 1:59:44
  know, Nightmare of Eden getting that, you know, sort of
• 1:59:47
  exposure? What's?
• 1:59:48
  Wrong with Nightmare of Eden. It's, it's shit.
• 1:59:50
  It's shit. That's that's what's wrong with
• 1:59:51
  the nightmare. Of Eden, no.
• 1:59:54
  But yeah, yeah. So it's, it's one of my absolute
• 1:59:58
  favourites, top five of all time.
• 2:00:01
  It it's the only logical winner as far as I'm concerned.
• 2:00:04
  OK, Seeds of doom, Braid of Morbius, City of Death.
• 2:00:08
  We have no consensus whatsoever, Paul.
• 2:00:12
  Oh. I'm going to add to that.
• 2:00:15
  Oh no, don't help us out. Though I was very convinced,
• 2:00:21
  Matt has just reminded me how much I love City of Death.
• 2:00:25
  I might be convinced. To.
• 2:00:27
  Change my my feeling but yeah again I looked at it and thought
• 2:00:32
  right of this list what what would I want to go through and
• 2:00:39
  yeah there's a lot there I quite like but it then it came down to
• 2:00:44
  the same the same thing the nostalgic feeling what the story
• 2:00:48
  makes me feel that glow inside and of these it's state of decay
• 2:00:55
  I. Knew you were going to say that.
• 2:00:57
  I knew it. It reminds me, I put I put it on
• 2:01:04
  Paddy King's music starts and I am back.
• 2:01:08
  I am 10 years old. It's whatever it is late
• 2:01:10
  November, it's getting on for Christmas, It's dark outside.
• 2:01:13
  I'm eating hot buttered crumpets and watching Doctor Who and that
• 2:01:18
  memory and that feeling just still there when I watch it
• 2:01:21
  again. And so it is a completely
• 2:01:24
  subjective opinion. However, I also do feel it's a
• 2:01:28
  gorgeous production. I feel it it has elements of all
• 2:01:33
  three. We've all talked about the three
• 2:01:36
  different eras of Tom Baker's Doctor and State of Decay has
• 2:01:39
  elements of that. It has the gothic, it has the
• 2:01:42
  comedy, it has the whatever however you want to describe
• 2:01:46
  Season 18, the maths or the fairy tale element, and it's got
• 2:01:51
  all of those things. So it is to represent the Tom
• 2:01:54
  Baker era in in its entirety is possibly the ideal story.
• 2:02:00
  We have, haven't we? We've had Hinchcliffe, we've had
• 2:02:02
  Williams, now we've got JNT. Yeah.
• 2:02:07
  With elements of them all. So that is, Yeah.
• 2:02:11
  And Terence, Terence knows how to craft a Doctor Who story.
• 2:02:14
  It's well directed. Some of those scenes, that scene
• 2:02:16
  with the bat, still brilliant. I still think that third episode
• 2:02:23
  cliffhanger is 1. It's terrific where they wake up
• 2:02:26
  and the vampires are sort of slowly creeping towards them.
• 2:02:29
  Break that man's arm, pulls the knife out of his chest.
• 2:02:33
  Yeah. Fabulous.
• 2:02:35
  And there's some lovely stuff with Tom and Lala.
• 2:02:37
  You could also see the bits where they're not getting on so
• 2:02:39
  well, but when the bits where they are getting on well is
• 2:02:42
  gorgeous and yeah, so there you go.
• 2:02:47
  Like I say, not very objective, but that's me.
• 2:02:52
  I knew this day would come, you know, where everybody chooses
• 2:02:55
  something different, Toby, If you choose something different
• 2:02:58
  as well, then we've got to try and convince somebody to change
• 2:03:03
  their mind. What are you can?
• 2:03:05
  I suggest something if Toby does choose something differently.
• 2:03:08
  We've already broken the rules once tonight, why don't we just
• 2:03:11
  put all 5? No.
• 2:03:13
  Why? Not why we're making up as we go
• 2:03:17
  along. Why not you?
• 2:03:18
  Make a mockery of this format, yo.
• 2:03:23
  Well, I'll dismiss the ones that were easy to dismiss.
• 2:03:31
  I mean, I'll when this list came through, I, I mean, I was quite
• 2:03:34
  furious. Invasion of Time and not Horror
• 2:03:39
  of Fang Rock. I mean, I was in the park when I
• 2:03:41
  listened to that aberration of a podcast.
• 2:03:44
  And if I'd been armed, I would have, I would have taken out it
• 2:03:47
  was school. It was school leaving time as
• 2:03:50
  well. It would have been.
• 2:03:51
  Oh boy, it. Would it would have been, it
• 2:03:54
  would have been a situation. Was that the one with Luke
• 2:03:57
  Malloy slang? That's the.
• 2:03:58
  One. Yeah, I was.
• 2:04:00
  I agree. Yes, they've.
• 2:04:01
  Since met, you know, it was decidedly frosty.
• 2:04:06
  I I was listening to that agreeing with Luke.
• 2:04:08
  I've got, I must admit, sorry, Toby.
• 2:04:10
  God. Well.
• 2:04:11
  This is why democracy is an inherently flawed concept.
• 2:04:13
  Exactly. So look, I love I I like a bit
• 2:04:20
  of robot. It's charming and and silly and
• 2:04:23
  and Tom comes out of left field, but in a season where it's up
• 2:04:28
  against arcade space, Genesis and Daleks and Sontaran
• 2:04:31
  experiment, What the fuck you guys were on when you let it
• 2:04:34
  come out top? I've got no idea.
• 2:04:37
  Miss Winters, she just dials me. I enjoy an underdog but if, you
• 2:04:42
  know, if, if we're going to show people football, we're going to
• 2:04:46
  show them, you know, Manchester United or one of the famous
• 2:04:48
  teams. Much as we might love the
• 2:04:50
  Kidderminster Harriers, who will occasionally have a giant
• 2:04:53
  killing performance, you know that you you can celebrate the
• 2:04:57
  undertalk too often. I think this is what.
• 2:05:00
  Is done so so robot. I think is fun, but I'm and I
• 2:05:06
  like the idea of having some Terrance sticks on the list
• 2:05:08
  because I think we do take him for granted and he gets the tone
• 2:05:11
  of Doctor Who. Absolutely.
• 2:05:13
  But and I love Michael Kilgariff's performance, which
• 2:05:16
  is much better than it we've any right to expect from a man in a
• 2:05:19
  robot suit. But no robot's silly brain of
• 2:05:22
  morbis. I'm going to shock you here.
• 2:05:25
  I'm not a massive fan of brain. You're mad.
• 2:05:28
  I love Grand Guignol. I love I love something that's a
• 2:05:30
  bit over the top. I certainly love violence and
• 2:05:33
  gothic. I just find it, it's trying to
• 2:05:35
  be all of those things with wooden floorboards underneath
• 2:05:38
  and it's just the IT just undermines the whole thing.
• 2:05:42
  I love Maddock. I find the sisterhood a bit of a
• 2:05:44
  chore, if I'm honest. I love the design of the
• 2:05:47
  monster. But and if Russell T Davis had
• 2:05:50
  done a story where after an hour and a half they go, is this game
• 2:05:54
  in the court that sends you do Lally?
• 2:05:56
  Should we play that? Nobody people would have said
• 2:05:59
  the Deus has never come. So probably ex the machina.
• 2:06:04
  And As for it's not. There are certain other things
• 2:06:07
  that aren't brain and Morbius's fault that I'm not going to
• 2:06:09
  blame it for. But no, I I production wise I I
• 2:06:12
  just find brain and Morbius doesn't quite cohere for me.
• 2:06:16
  Surprised me. When it surprises me as well
• 2:06:18
  because I, I, I do a lot of it should absolutely float my boat.
• 2:06:22
  Hand of fear again, I, I was really surprised by hand to
• 2:06:25
  fear. That was one where I don't
• 2:06:27
  think, no, I had read the book, but it was, it was 1 I didn't
• 2:06:30
  know and came to quite late and, and everybody sort of rather
• 2:06:33
  undermined. And I was very surprised when I
• 2:06:35
  saw it, how much I enjoyed it. I think the effect of the hand
• 2:06:38
  is great. I think it feels a bit
• 2:06:39
  different, but it all goes tits up in part 4.
• 2:06:43
  I mean for a for a Hinchcliffe era, which which they quite
• 2:06:46
  often do. This one goes especially tits up
• 2:06:49
  in part 4 where there's only three people left in it because
• 2:06:52
  they've run out of people and they L dread chips over the
• 2:06:55
  doctor's eye after shouting after shouting for ages.
• 2:07:00
  It's got lots of pleasant surprises.
• 2:07:02
  If if you're of my age and you go into hand of fear, not
• 2:07:05
  expecting that much because it's it's so outweighed by all of the
• 2:07:10
  classics either side of it. But you know, there's a pleasant
• 2:07:14
  surprise and then going it's the best one of its season and the
• 2:07:19
  gulf between the two is quite large.
• 2:07:21
  So I would dismiss Anderfeer much as I actually think it's
• 2:07:24
  quite sweet and I think the film works very good.
• 2:07:27
  Invasion of Time can go away. We've got that away anyway.
• 2:07:31
  We've changed it for seeds and talents, which I've talked about
• 2:07:34
  Androids of Tara now. Now I love Androids of Tara in
• 2:07:39
  the same way that I love the Rebus operation in that I've
• 2:07:42
  sort of appreciate them as an older person and and it's a bit
• 2:07:46
  like the smugglers and the Highlanders.
• 2:07:48
  I, I, I can sort of understand why people like those stories
• 2:07:53
  because they have a sort of brio about them.
• 2:07:55
  But are they what I go to Doctor Who for now, I prefer Rebus and
• 2:08:00
  Androids of Tara to the smugglers and the Highlanders,
• 2:08:03
  But they they have that that sort of, you know, the
• 2:08:06
  Ruritanian thing of androids of Tara.
• 2:08:08
  There's a sort of there's a sort of Sunday afternoon sort of
• 2:08:11
  classic serial vibe derring do sort of thing about them.
• 2:08:15
  Now the the 2 Baker ones have the science fiction element as
• 2:08:18
  well, which gives it an extra Androids of Tara has.
• 2:08:20
  I mean, everyone in it is brilliant, especially Peter
• 2:08:24
  Jeffrey, who is magnificent. But, and I do it is it is a a
• 2:08:28
  high scorer for me, but I think it's just because it's the key
• 2:08:35
  to and it's probably my favorite of the key.
• 2:08:37
  It is my favorite of the key to time season, which I do like.
• 2:08:42
  But again, it's it's not quite typical of Doctor Who for me.
• 2:08:46
  So I'll I'll go to it as an alternative rather than as a
• 2:08:49
  mainstream hit. Do you know what I mean?
• 2:08:52
  I'd have it as a bit on the side but I'd never marry it.
• 2:08:55
  I love how you sort of kill things kindly.
• 2:08:58
  Well, I love Doctor Who. City of Death.
• 2:09:01
  Now you're talking and I remember it.
• 2:09:04
  I remember when it was new and it stuck with me a long time.
• 2:09:08
  And I also remember my it's funny, isn't it, how the
• 2:09:11
  affirmation of others in support.
• 2:09:12
  I remember I had a teacher at six year old college, Mr.
• 2:09:16
  Ormond, who who said who said I'm not a Doctor Who, but you
• 2:09:20
  know, the the best ones. Definitely city of death, you
• 2:09:23
  know, and other other people seem to like city of death and
• 2:09:26
  it is smart and funny and also sort of unlike any other Doctor
• 2:09:31
  Who's story. And yet very, very Doctor Whoey
• 2:09:34
  and that witty idea of the six people having a Mona Lisa.
• 2:09:37
  So I, I think of the original list, City of Death would be my
• 2:09:43
  winner. Much as much as I love state of
• 2:09:47
  decay, but state of decay, I don't know why I don't celebrate
• 2:09:50
  state of decay more. I think maybe because I was at
• 2:09:54
  that age at the time where I suddenly realising that you you
• 2:09:56
  could, you could, you could like Doctor Who, but also be.
• 2:10:01
  Yeah. But it's all right.
• 2:10:03
  And and it has the mixture of gothic that I love as well.
• 2:10:05
  I think it's the beards. I think it's really let down in
• 2:10:09
  the beard department. It's got some terrible beards in
• 2:10:14
  it. Oh.
• 2:10:15
  No strange braids that are over that lovely old man's head.
• 2:10:18
  Oh yeah. I don't, I don't mind the
• 2:10:19
  braids. It's just the wop.
• 2:10:20
  It's just the the the allulating beards all betting his dad's got
• 2:10:26
  a terrible beard. Do you complain about colony in
• 2:10:29
  space for the same reason? Colony in Space is a mustache
• 2:10:32
  story. Oh.
• 2:10:32
  Mustache is a. Beard get your get your texts in
• 2:10:38
  order. Was it the department?
• 2:10:41
  The facial hair department at the BBC.
• 2:10:43
  Absolutely. Yeah, Yeah, I I was once in a
• 2:10:46
  play where a bit more a beard that cost more than I did.
• 2:10:49
  Beards are expensive. I saw the chit.
• 2:10:52
  I was like fuck. It's like Nicola Brighton the
• 2:10:55
  door, isn't it from mine warp. So I like, there's nothing wrong
• 2:11:00
  with safe again, I love Emery's James, I love the bat, the bat
• 2:11:03
  stuff and all of that. But no.
• 2:11:08
  And I don't know why. And I love Paddy King's music
• 2:11:10
  too. Maybe it's just because the
• 2:11:14
  whole of season 18 is a bit just just leaves me slightly at a a
• 2:11:19
  distance from it because of all the maths, but it's great stage
• 2:11:25
  of good. But no, it would.
• 2:11:26
  So it's for me it's a fight between City of Death and Seeds
• 2:11:30
  of Doom and Talents of Weng Chai Ang.
• 2:11:36
  Part of me is tempted to to say well as City of Death is the
• 2:11:40
  only one on the original list I should put that through.
• 2:11:44
  But part of me thinks I should be true to myself and what?
• 2:11:50
  But I'm going to choose Talents of Weng Chai Ang.
• 2:11:53
  Oh my. God not like racism.
• 2:12:00
  Hang on a minute. It's that five different
• 2:12:02
  choices, Yes. Oh, for fuck's sake.
• 2:12:05
  I've never been here before. What the hell are we going to
• 2:12:08
  do? Oh dear.
• 2:12:11
  Flip a coin. So.
• 2:12:14
  What have we got? We've got Seeds, Talons,
• 2:12:16
  Morbius, City of Death and State of Decay.
• 2:12:20
  Can I tempt anybody with the brains of Morbius?
• 2:12:22
  I know, Toby, you and Joan can't be tempted.
• 2:12:25
  Matt, do you like brain splatting all over the floor
• 2:12:29
  and, you know, sort of goldfish bowls, heads going over cliffs?
• 2:12:34
  Yeah, it is. It is a great story, yeah, but
• 2:12:37
  it's not City of Death or Seeds of doing more talents when you
• 2:12:40
  hang. So no, you can't swipe me, I'm
• 2:12:42
  afraid. No.
• 2:12:43
  No brain of morbidity. OK, well I do.
• 2:12:46
  Like it a lot but the other ones I would say more likely.
• 2:12:53
  Women in the entropy era. It's a revelation.
• 2:12:56
  OK, well that's me done. Anyone else?
• 2:12:58
  Anyone else will have a go? State of death.
• 2:13:02
  Enough said. I mean, come on, it's it's it's
• 2:13:04
  glorious. It's got everything.
• 2:13:06
  It's hilarious. It.
• 2:13:07
  Doesn't have different shell in it, doesn't it?
• 2:13:10
  She gets the gun out and she goes put it down.
• 2:13:13
  But surely, Joe, if nobody's going to vote for Brain of
• 2:13:17
  Morbius? Yes.
• 2:13:19
  Surely then, if you come up with another one would be the winner
• 2:13:24
  because nobody, you're not going to persuade any of us to vote
• 2:13:26
  for yours of. Course you all we need to
• 2:13:29
  convince me is that right? Maybe.
• 2:13:34
  Oh, come on then, let's hear some.
• 2:13:35
  I want to hear one more thing for each of your stories.
• 2:13:38
  Now to to be truly convincing as to why that should be the
• 2:13:41
  winner. Yowen.
• 2:13:43
  Because the Seeds of Doom is the one remaining and a prime
• 2:13:47
  example of Tom Baker and Elizabeth and Elizabeth Sladen
• 2:13:51
  together in a love two-story shit.
• 2:13:54
  That is a good reason, isn't it? She's my best friend.
• 2:13:57
  OK, Matt. It's one of the funniest Doctor
• 2:14:01
  Who stories of all time. And what, what, what better is
• 2:14:03
  there than humour? You know, It's, it's the, it's
• 2:14:06
  the best thing. So.
• 2:14:07
  He's no one interested in history.
• 2:14:10
  He's. Full of great lines.
• 2:14:11
  There's more. There's more great lines than
• 2:14:13
  not great lines. You know, it's yeah.
• 2:14:15
  I will say about City of Death, Toby was saying that there's,
• 2:14:19
  you know, a quality of genius about Tom Baker.
• 2:14:23
  I think Douglas Adams is one of those few other people in the
• 2:14:26
  history of show who also has that quality.
• 2:14:29
  And even if City of Death isn't my particular favorite, I can
• 2:14:33
  recognize that's his contribution, you know?
• 2:14:38
  That said, still sticking with seeds to do.
• 2:14:40
  There are ideas in the 17, aren't there?
• 2:14:42
  Where he's in charge? OK, Paul, what do you got?
• 2:14:45
  What have I got? Do you want me to convince you
• 2:14:48
  to say it again? Do you want to change my mind?
• 2:14:50
  Take. Your top off, I'll be convinced.
• 2:14:53
  All right then. State of Decay.
• 2:14:56
  Oh, oh, it's the things I said, it's the music, it's the
• 2:14:59
  sumptuous nature. There's some lovely direction in
• 2:15:03
  there. There's there's an incredible
• 2:15:04
  shot in the TARDIS, but they actually make the console room
• 2:15:07
  look interesting when he raises up above it.
• 2:15:13
  Oh, I don't know what else. The beards, Joe.
• 2:15:16
  The lovely beards. I was.
• 2:15:18
  Obsessed with? That Paddy Kings and score.
• 2:15:20
  You know, when I first saw things, I used to sing it at
• 2:15:23
  work when I worked in a cafe and people would go, are you all
• 2:15:25
  right? I was singing bloody Paddy
• 2:15:27
  Kings. The music.
• 2:15:28
  OK Toby channels the Wing Cheyenne.
• 2:15:30
  Come on. Baker, Jamieson.
• 2:15:33
  Hinchcliffe, Holmes, Maloney, Murray Leach.
• 2:15:38
  A roll call of great contributors to Doctor Who.
• 2:15:42
  And it's the swan song of Hinchcliffe, who always pushed
• 2:15:45
  the envelope for Doctor Who to be witty, intelligent, that that
• 2:15:49
  word he uses about the storytelling, muscular.
• 2:15:53
  And it's a synthesis of all the that Doctor Who does best.
• 2:15:58
  And Hinchcliffe also had the chutzpah on his exit to go,
• 2:16:03
  well, they can't tell me off because I'm not doing it
• 2:16:06
  anymore. So I'm going to overspend.
• 2:16:09
  Be ambitious. Film stuff on location in an
• 2:16:14
  actual theatre. So scenes that you think because
• 2:16:17
  of the the Sheen, because it's videotaped, it's somehow in a
• 2:16:21
  set that's amazing because it's actually on location and, and,
• 2:16:25
  and a mixture of period drama and intelligence, science
• 2:16:28
  fiction and Sherlock evocative Sherlock Holmes in that
• 2:16:33
  atmosphere as well. It's a synthesis of so much that
• 2:16:36
  Doctor Who does so brilliantly and it's designed, written and
• 2:16:43
  performed to the absolute hilt. And that's before you get any
• 2:16:47
  number of the immensely quotable lines from it's fantastic roll
• 2:16:51
  call of characters. I'm utterly convinced by that
• 2:16:55
  argument, and I put Talons of Wing Chai Yang through to the
• 2:16:58
  second round. However, I want to go for the
• 2:17:05
  story which has both the campist and the scariest moment in it
• 2:17:12
  that I can think of, and that is in just over half an hour.
• 2:17:18
  You'll be pumped into the garden.
• 2:17:21
  Oh, boy. I love Harrison Chase and what
• 2:17:24
  are the scariest moments for me as a kid, I just hated seeing
• 2:17:27
  adults in an anxious state. And the bit where Scorpy takes
• 2:17:30
  Sarah Jane away and the doctor screaming Scorpy, you think it's
• 2:17:35
  gonna tear his fucking head off when he sees him?
• 2:17:37
  And he does try that at one point in the story.
• 2:17:41
  I mean, sees the group. It's great, isn't it?
• 2:17:43
  It's it's and I think it's a worthy winner because it is a
• 2:17:47
  typical Doctor Who, but in on itself, it's perfectly executed.
• 2:17:56
  Where's the plant that came out of the pod?
• 2:17:58
  We grew in the bed that was part of the garden close to the house
• 2:18:01
  to Jack. I'm not a patient man, Doctor.
• 2:18:04
  Well, your candor does your credit.
• 2:18:09
  I understand policemen are few and far between in the
• 2:18:11
  Antarctic. I tell you something.
• 2:18:13
  Has happened up there. We've had a telex message saying
• 2:18:15
  that an infection is brilliant, the grotesque parody of the
• 2:18:18
  human form. These two mystery men had
• 2:18:20
  everything planned. They had an aeroplane, guns,
• 2:18:23
  even a bomb. It was organized under the last
• 2:18:25
  detail. This is.
• 2:18:26
  The most valuable study in plant biology ever made.
• 2:18:29
  Nothing will stop me now. It's a thing in the cottage.
• 2:18:31
  It's a monster. All the vegetation on this
• 2:18:33
  planet is about to turn hostile. The last things.
• 2:18:36
  You'll ever see. Will.
• 2:18:38
  Be my beautiful plants. Animals have ruled this planet
• 2:18:42
  for millions of years. Now it is our turn.
• 2:18:47
  Like there. There isn't a rat in Seeds of
• 2:18:50
  Doom, is there? I mean, there's a little bit of
• 2:18:53
  a wobbly duvet that comes towards the camera at the end of
• 2:18:57
  episode 4, but it's only just for a second.
• 2:18:59
  The score, the violence, the Antarctica Saints.
• 2:19:03
  Seeds of Doom is our strictly cum hamster, unless anyone else
• 2:19:08
  wants to vote for anyone else and then for a curveball in
• 2:19:10
  here. See, it is although, although I
• 2:19:14
  have to, I have to just point out for fairness, there is some
• 2:19:18
  egregious beard action going on in the Antarctica scenes that
• 2:19:24
  I've I've rather overlooked because of my clearly because of
• 2:19:28
  my bias. I don't notice because they're
• 2:19:30
  talking about amputating somebody's arm.
• 2:19:33
  Oh, see. That scene, that scene is
• 2:19:35
  fantastic. And that's.
• 2:19:36
  Turning into vegetable soup. It's good stuff.
• 2:19:39
  Or that bit where, I mean, is there anything more chilling
• 2:19:42
  than that meat that's put in front of Kayla and it's just
• 2:19:45
  sort of breathing over it or get it in my tongue?
• 2:19:49
  Terrifying. Brilliant, brilliant.
• 2:19:52
  Oh. Well fellas, I mean I don't
• 2:19:55
  think anyone could be truly this one.
• 2:19:56
  We almost had a Graham Williams win as well.
• 2:19:58
  I would have been so happy with that.
• 2:20:00
  But unfortunately Seeds of Doom, or rather fortunately is our
• 2:20:05
  winner. An Arsenal pump in a fantastic
• 2:20:08
  scene from Seeds of Doom. There everyone, take your pick.
• 2:20:10
  What do you think be the best bit for me to put in?
• 2:20:14
  Scorby get done bar I think I've got.
• 2:20:19
  A text message. Is it material?
• 2:20:24
  Oh gosh, isn't she wonderful? Operation Nut House.
• 2:20:28
  It's great. Well, fellas, thank you very.
• 2:20:31
  Much all day and my green cathedral that's.
• 2:20:34
  A great one as well. Or maybe I'll just pump in the
• 2:20:37
  music. Fellas, thank you very much.
• 2:20:44
  I think this has been a wonderful loving for the era,
• 2:20:47
  for the Doctor and for the actor.
• 2:20:50
  We've got to talk about some amazing stories and some of the
• 2:20:53
  best Doctor Who stories. I mean, I think even you'll
• 2:20:56
  agree that with our cheating, we did manage to jam in some of the
• 2:21:02
  best Doctor Who stories. Can I just, I'm just going to
• 2:21:05
  quickly do a round Robin because you're all whingeing about the
• 2:21:07
  lists. What?
• 2:21:08
  What would you have added to the list if you'd had a choice MA?
• 2:21:14
  Well, my top three are actually all in there, to be fair, so
• 2:21:17
  it's not many. What would I add?
• 2:21:22
  Oh Christ, I don't know. No, no, I don't know.
• 2:21:31
  I'm. Happy, although there are some
• 2:21:33
  shocking picks as well. It's a it's a mixed bag, so
• 2:21:36
  yeah. Yo it, I mean it's.
• 2:21:40
  Basic stuff. But yeah, I love Genesis.
• 2:21:43
  I love Ted the Zygons, love Pyramids and Mars, Deadly
• 2:21:45
  Assassin, Ropes of Death, Fine Rock.
• 2:21:49
  Sun Makers is maybe as a script, my favorite of Robert Holmes.
• 2:21:54
  I think it's a brilliant, hilarious, biting scripts.
• 2:22:00
  I love Keeper of Tracking. I'd have loved to see that go
• 2:22:03
  through. That would have been a fun kind
• 2:22:04
  of strictly winner full circle. I I really think that's an
• 2:22:09
  underrated standard kind of Doctor Who story.
• 2:22:12
  I think it's really well executed Lagopolis.
• 2:22:15
  I mean, we had five choices there in the final round, so
• 2:22:21
  that tells you how many options you've got in the. 00 It's been
• 2:22:25
  a long road mate, I'll say Toby. Well, season 13 I think Genesis
• 2:22:31
  would have won had I been in charge.
• 2:22:35
  Sorry. Season 12, Season 13.
• 2:22:37
  See, Zygons is so good. Seeds of Doom is so good.
• 2:22:42
  Pyramids decided probably had almost anything apart from Ditto
• 2:22:48
  14. We haven't talked about Deadly
• 2:22:49
  Assassin, which I find wild because I think it's
• 2:22:52
  extraordinary robots of. Death.
• 2:22:54
  Robots of death talents you know I mean are all upper echelon who
• 2:23:02
  15 for me is a is a weird season.
• 2:23:05
  I appreciate the love for the sun makers, but horror Fang rock
• 2:23:08
  I just think is faultless. I think it's a total 10 out of
• 2:23:11
  10 he's. Been dead for hours.
• 2:23:14
  But that is not possible. He was in his room, not Ruben,
• 2:23:17
  but he was. I saw him.
• 2:23:19
  The chameleon factor sometimes called lycanthropy.
• 2:23:26
  But I've made a terrible mistake.
• 2:23:28
  I thought I'd lock the enemy out, instead I've locked it in
• 2:23:32
  with us. Doctor Who story 16 is weird,
• 2:23:37
  isn't it? But I I do love Rebos and
• 2:23:39
  androids of Tara. They'd probably be my 2 for that
• 2:23:43
  17 yeah, city of death is head and shoulders above everything
• 2:23:46
  else. And 18 is is weird, but I think
• 2:23:49
  the more the most interesting stories of that are probably
• 2:23:52
  warriors gate and full circle. But it's all the thing about I
• 2:23:56
  think what's this has shown us is that it kind of depends what
• 2:24:01
  mood you're in. You know, sometimes I, you know,
• 2:24:05
  I, I absolutely adore talents of Wenchuang, but sometimes I might
• 2:24:09
  prefer to watch Nightmare of Eden because actually I think
• 2:24:11
  that zips along and it's full of crazy ideas and and and what
• 2:24:16
  ifs. What, what if some people have
• 2:24:18
  behaved better? But it's also got amongst all of
• 2:24:21
  that, some really inventive. So that's that's, but that's
• 2:24:24
  doctor in a nutshell, is that there is always something to
• 2:24:28
  suit and, and I'll go through phases.
• 2:24:30
  I'm doing state of decay for my happy time as a place now and
• 2:24:32
  I'm absolutely loving it. And what that means is I will
• 2:24:35
  probably then go and watch the leisure hive and full circle and
• 2:24:39
  worries get because I'm suddenly getting all season eighteeny,
• 2:24:43
  you know, so that's that's the that's the lovely thing about
• 2:24:45
  the show, isn't it? And Paul, what would you have
• 2:24:48
  added? Right.
• 2:24:49
  I think I would have added there's three stories I would
• 2:24:52
  have added Terror of the Saigons, Horror, Fang Rock and
• 2:24:57
  we've I think we mostly mentioned it full circle, which
• 2:25:01
  I think is fantastic. I love, I love the leisure hive
• 2:25:04
  as well. Nobody ever talked.
• 2:25:05
  I love that. I do love the leisure hive.
• 2:25:07
  I absolutely love you. It's so.
• 2:25:09
  Boring. What's wrong with you people?
• 2:25:12
  I mean, I'm not boring. I would have been a basic bitch.
• 2:25:15
  I would have added the arc in space because I just think
• 2:25:17
  that's an incredible script. Pyramids of Mars.
• 2:25:20
  Just because I just wore that tape out when I was younger.
• 2:25:24
  It terrified me, that story. Those don't care.
• 2:25:27
  Those mummies were walking around the bright sunshine.
• 2:25:29
  The fact that they just kept going after that poacher until
• 2:25:33
  he was exhausted and then crushed in between their tits, I
• 2:25:36
  mean, it was terrifying. And from the Graham Williams
• 2:25:42
  era, I mean, all my favourites are there.
• 2:25:44
  I mean, I, I, I was half heartedly I wanted to go for
• 2:25:48
  Rebos because I just think some of the performances and that I
• 2:25:51
  think Bin Robber Heretic is just one of the best, single best
• 2:25:54
  characters in Doctor whoever capable of being hilarious and
• 2:25:58
  just so much pathos. And in 18 wow, Warriors, Kate
• 2:26:02
  was there. So I'm kind of happy with the
• 2:26:04
  choices. But then I was on the episodes.
• 2:26:07
  Like you said, there's something for everybody in the 4th
• 2:26:11
  Doctor's era. Boys, will you please do me the
• 2:26:15
  great honor and tell everybody where you can be found?
• 2:26:17
  And if you wish to point them in the direction of anything, say
• 2:26:21
  your piece, yo? And you're shaking your head.
• 2:26:23
  No, I don't want to tell people where I am.
• 2:26:26
  You go first. OK, well, don't bother following
• 2:26:29
  me on social media. There's nothing interesting
• 2:26:31
  happening. He's a delight.
• 2:26:33
  Don't listen to him. I got a short animated film I
• 2:26:36
  made called Spectre of the Bears on iPlayer.
• 2:26:40
  By the time this comes out, I'll have finished doing a very silly
• 2:26:44
  narrative podcast called The New Recommender that I've been doing
• 2:26:47
  for the past three years with a friend of mine.
• 2:26:50
  And yeah, another very silly sort of animated thing called
• 2:26:53
  his name is Chris on YouTube. If you fancy looking that up, by
• 2:26:58
  all means, go ahead. I don't.
• 2:26:59
  I'm on Blue Sky, but I don't. Yeah, don't bother.
• 2:27:02
  You can find Joe and Morris as well on various, probably the
• 2:27:06
  most amount of episodes I've put out The Xhamster Files so far
• 2:27:10
  where we've we've headed back to the 90s when The X-Files was the
• 2:27:14
  biggest phenomenon on television and we've had a grand old time
• 2:27:17
  with it. Paul, where can you be found
• 2:27:20
  naked? Well, I can be found naked on
• 2:27:24
  Instagram at Paul Cresser and on Blue Sky where I generally keep
• 2:27:30
  my clothes on blue, which again is just my name.
• 2:27:35
  Paul Cresser still linger on X but barely touch it now.
• 2:27:40
  Also, if you happen to live in the New Forest area, I will be
• 2:27:45
  in a play at Fersey Gardens at the beginning of July, a new
• 2:27:49
  version of Charlie's Aunt in which I will be playing Babs the
• 2:27:54
  Cross dressing Butler. So that's for the first of the
• 2:27:57
  4th of July. Come and check it out if you're
• 2:28:00
  in the area. That sounds wonderful.
• 2:28:03
  Thank you. Matt, where can you be found
• 2:28:06
  online? Well, similar to yelling,
• 2:28:09
  really. I won't waste your time.
• 2:28:10
  Follow me on social media. I'm very quiet.
• 2:28:12
  I don't really say anything to be honest.
• 2:28:13
  So yeah, I wouldn't bother if I were you.
• 2:28:16
  I pop up occasionally on track One podcast and a few of those,
• 2:28:20
  mainly the BFI field reports and a few other things on there
• 2:28:24
  occasionally. And I've actually been on a few
• 2:28:27
  episodes of Amazon Blunt pen knife, believe it or not, what
• 2:28:31
  we've done, we've done all. 7 episodes of Marco Polo as his
• 2:28:34
  first commentary. What a lunatic.
• 2:28:36
  A story with no moving pictures whatsoever.
• 2:28:41
  Absolute hard. Now I am.
• 2:28:43
  And we also did the giggle. And coming soon, the Armageddon
• 2:28:45
  Factor. Speaking of Tom Baker.
• 2:28:47
  So for those. Yeah.
• 2:28:49
  So that's about it for me, really.
• 2:28:51
  I've got anything else worth saying.
• 2:28:52
  So. Yeah.
• 2:28:53
  Please do check out your in and out as well.
• 2:28:55
  They are fabulous online. Stop talking bullshit guys.
• 2:28:58
  And Toby? Well, I can.
• 2:29:02
  My day job is stand up comedian and I'm the regular MC of Excess
• 2:29:06
  Monarchy Comedy Club, which is in Manchester every Tuesday
• 2:29:09
  night. And there's a new material on
• 2:29:11
  the night at the end of every month on the last Sunday of the
• 2:29:13
  month as well. And it's good and it's been
• 2:29:16
  running for 28 years and has lots of brilliant comedians
• 2:29:19
  there. This week, just this week, we
• 2:29:20
  had Paul Sinha off of the telly and Joe Lycett was there a few
• 2:29:24
  weeks ago and loads of circuit comics that you might not have
• 2:29:28
  heard of but should have because that's a rich theme of comedy in
• 2:29:31
  the UK. And it's a lovely night out and
• 2:29:34
  I'm very happy to be there. In between I'm I will be popping
• 2:29:40
  up, I think, talking about missing episodes, not of Doctor
• 2:29:46
  Who. Don't start any rumours because
• 2:29:48
  I've been sort of advising and now serving as the the the the
• 2:29:55
  media face off film is fabulous who are trying to preserve the
• 2:30:02
  film collections of elderly collectors and, as we will have
• 2:30:07
  noticed in the process of so doing, rescued 2 episodes of the
• 2:30:11
  Daleks master plan from oblivion.
• 2:30:13
  So that's taken up quite a lot of more of my time than I'd
• 2:30:16
  expected it to. But it's it's rewarding, if
• 2:30:20
  quite exhausting, dealing with the BBC and the unique way in
• 2:30:25
  which they have such things that you think would be
• 2:30:29
  straightforward. I will say no more and I'm on
• 2:30:35
  various Doctor Who Ray things coming up probably.
• 2:30:39
  And and I have my own. Oh, but I'm, I'm supposed to be
• 2:30:43
  tonight doing because I've got a deadline for my book on
• 2:30:46
  Quatermass 2 and also 1984 and the Creature, which were all
• 2:30:51
  productions in 1954 and 1955 of a science fiction event written
• 2:30:56
  by Nigel Neal and produced by Rudolf Cartier.
• 2:30:59
  And that book is going to be a follow up to my book on the
• 2:31:01
  Queens Mass Experiment and that will be out before the year is
• 2:31:05
  out. So please buy that when it is
• 2:31:07
  announced by 10 Acre Films. Tonight, did you say no?
• 2:31:11
  I'm supposed to be writing it tonight instead.
• 2:31:13
  Of doing good grief, I'm so. No, it's sorry.
• 2:31:15
  It's my fault. It's my fault.
• 2:31:17
  Things keep happening and and I have my own podcasts, Toby
• 2:31:23
  Haydock's Time Travels, where I do a commentary called Happy
• 2:31:26
  Times Places, a deep dive called Too Much Information, and
• 2:31:30
  whimsical monologues called Indefinable Magic.
• 2:31:34
  There we are. But you know, I was in a bit of
• 2:31:37
  a tricky bind and Toby went to Joe what put me down for as many
• 2:31:42
  strictly come hamsters as you like.
• 2:31:44
  I mean, there was a dark day for you, so sorry.
• 2:31:48
  You weren't it? Were you in a bind?
• 2:31:50
  Well I sort of lost my Co host. Oh yeah.
• 2:31:53
  Yes. Well, actually I think you were
• 2:31:55
  responsible for that. So you had no, no.
• 2:31:59
  Well, it was the Season 4 one where you had a meltdown.
• 2:32:03
  That's when we never saw him again.
• 2:32:05
  Oh dear. Oh gosh.
• 2:32:07
  Well, I'm very sorry. About that, I was very firmly in
• 2:32:10
  cheek whilst you were ranting. Well, well, I, well, yes.
• 2:32:15
  You see, my mum sometimes doesn't get it when I, when I do
• 2:32:18
  sort of comic extravagance, she takes it very literally.
• 2:32:21
  I go no mother, I'm being amusing and she's like, I'll be
• 2:32:24
  the judge of that. Like Tom Baker, you don't know
• 2:32:27
  when you're going too far. Exactly.
• 2:32:28
  Yeah. But I I did have my eyes looking
• 2:32:32
  upwards, you know, into my skull to.
• 2:32:34
  Suggest. That I was being hilarious.
• 2:32:36
  It's still, but most listened to it, so I'm still in a blood pen
• 2:32:41
  knife. I think everyone just hangs
• 2:32:43
  around for the meltdown. Oh boys, this has been a
• 2:32:47
  delight. What an amazing doctor.
• 2:32:49
  What a terrific actor. What a magical time for Doctor
• 2:32:52
  Who. I'd like to end this now.
• 2:32:55
  Not in the usual strictly come hamster way, although I will
• 2:32:58
  kick in with the music. If we could just all go out with
• 2:33:02
  Tom Baker the way he says bye bye, I think that might be quite
• 2:33:05
  fun. Instead, now you'll know how he
• 2:33:06
  does it. Bye.
• 2:33:07
  Bye. Yeah, like that.
• 2:33:08
  Ready, 321. Bye.
• 2:33:13
  Bye. Bye bye.
• 2:33:16
  What a horrible noise. The.
• 2:34:20
  The.