Latest / Houselights: A Film Director Podcast / Robin Hood (1991) - Kevin Reynolds | Houselights #144

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Robin Hood (1991) - Kevin Reynolds | Houselights #144 · Houselights: A Film Director Podcast

0:03
Welcome to the nerd Party. Hello a running at home, and welcome to
0:22
Houselights House of Reynolds. That's right, we are starting our look into the
0:27
works of Kevin Reynolds. Now this isn't exactly a household name, and some
0:34
of you may be scratching your heads as to what he has done. But
0:39
the thing is you've seen his movies. Like Kevin Reynolds is one of those
0:42
unsung heroes of cinema where he has done some good works and he's done some
0:47
not good good works, but his movies have definitely made a splash one way
0:52
or another. I think is a good way to put it. And so
0:56
we are, you know in this show before I introduce my co host and
1:00
my best good friends. You know, this show usually has some rules about
1:04
who we pick and how we pick them. Well, usually like if we
1:08
can, we'll do an entire you know, breadth of works, like from
1:14
Finscher and Nolan, we've done everything. We've done everything of Wes Anderson.
1:17
Or if like if we do somebody a little bit too, you know,
1:19
who has a really long filmography, we'll just do a decade. I think
1:23
Spielberg. We chose his underappreciated work, stuff that nobody ever really talks about
1:30
one per decade because it was one per decade, and so we try to
1:34
have some rules with Kevin Reynolds. That all went out the window and we're
1:40
like, you know what, this is our show. We're just going to
1:42
pick the ones we want to watch and talk about. There we go.
1:46
So, Darren Moser aka Doctor sci Fi, can you tell us what films
1:51
we're going to be doing for the next four weeks? All right? We're
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going to start out with the nineteen ninety one classic Robin Hood Prince of Thieves,
1:59
which spawned many a spinoff homage, as it were, from many other
2:04
directors. Then we're going to jump to nineteen ninety five with water World,
2:09
but it is the Ulysses cut, a special underground smuggled out of the Depths
2:16
cut that was not released in Shape for Man or Beast. And then we're
2:23
going to owe to the Count of Money Cristo Amazing with Edmund Dantes, and
2:29
wrapping it up by jumping a decade to twenty sixteen with Risen. So I
2:34
think these four films are really kind of the breadth of his career, and
2:38
I think we're going to still be able to see how does his directing changed,
2:44
you know, when he's got a big budget, a little budget,
2:46
when it does really well financially, when it doesn't. So I think at
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its core, it couldn't even be more houseless. You know what, Darren,
2:55
what a great way to look at it, because we're going from ninety
2:59
one twenty sixteen. That's a huge chunk of somebody's career. That's a big
3:02
timespan. I'm really glad that we're doing this because these are some movies,
3:07
all four of these movies I've really wanted to talk about now. John Yes,
3:13
also known as John Mills aka Kessel Junkie. When was the first time
3:19
you saw Robin Hood Prince of Thieves? What were you doing? Now?
3:22
See, this isn't fair because we all know I'm the old man of the
3:25
podcast, and so I have a few years on you guys, lots of
3:30
experience, more wisdom, you know, those sorts of thing. And you
3:34
just celebrated your seventy fifth birthday sent six young man. Please, I'm proud
3:38
of every year. If you cut me in half, you can count my
3:39
age through rings like a tree. And so I saw this movie just as
3:46
anybody would expect in nineteen ninety one if you're in high school with a girl.
3:51
And she actually it was the first time during a movie where I ever
3:55
encountered the life hack of her saying, well, you know, you can
4:00
drink your soda through a twizzler as if it's a straw. And I would
4:03
go on and she demonstrated, and I said, this is a wonderful invention.
4:08
Thank you for sharing, and may I subscribe to your newsletter? Were
4:11
you stoked to see Kevin Costner's Robin Hood? No? Was it? Was
4:14
it just a Robin Hood thing? Or was it just an action movie?
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Everybody was. Everybody was going to see this, and I was excited because
4:23
I was like Alan Rickman and Morgan Freeman. I like both of those people,
4:27
and Kevin Costner. I was like, yeah, he's not bad.
4:29
Sure Like I was not there for Kevin Costner. He was not the draw
4:32
for me. It was it was the supporting cast is really what I was
4:38
interested in. But I'll also cop to this that at that time in my
4:41
life, I was much less critical of movies. It was simply a thumbs
4:47
upper, thumbs down. There was simply a There was no nuance to my
4:51
views of it, it was simply did see movie, did hate movie?
4:55
No? Then good that sort of vibe. No, Darren, how about
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you, what did you know about this film? Were you excited about it?
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What tell us what you were feeling? Well, I definitely wasn't seeing
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it in nineteen ninety one. This was definitely this was a blockbuster rentals like
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many a movie. And yeah, I mean, but see, I remember
5:17
being raised on a lot of the classics as well, so I think I
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had already seen the Adventures of Robin Hood with Errol Flynn before this one.
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And I think, I mean, there's been many robin Hood stories, but
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as far as what is known, yeah, yeah, that's true, and
5:32
the Disney version there, I think. Besides, you know the Disney version
5:38
in this, I want to say sixties and Errol Flynn. This is kind
5:42
of like the third like large popular, well known Robin Hood. And yeah,
5:48
I remember I had seen I don't know if i'd actually seen the trailer,
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but i'd heard the music because the studio used it under their you know,
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pop in another VHS tape and it's like coming soon from Warner Brothers.
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And it was like and then it's just playing the intro to Robin Hood over
6:09
and over because it was a great piece of music. It almost kind of
6:13
felt let down just with the normal tapestry intro. I'm like, it's like
6:17
it should be more for what we're getting in this musical queue. But no,
6:23
So this this was a blockbuster rental And yeah, again, like John
6:28
said, this was you know, a big movie. It's Robin Hood,
6:32
you know, prince of these. I'm gonna try really hard to give it
6:34
the right name this entire podcast and not slip up and call it something else.
6:40
But yeah, so I remember rending it. We took it home,
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and you know, there's the everyone giggling over the costner butt because that was
6:49
the big thing to giggle over at the at the time. But but it's
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great. It's a really good it's a really good movie. It's and like
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again, echoing with John said, it's got a really good cast overall,
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and it's ninety one, so there's not a drop of CGI in it.
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Uh, it's well, okay, okay, there's an arrow shot or two.
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But but if you want to talk about practicality versus don practicality, it's
7:18
like in the high nineties of practicality of course, I will say that that's
7:23
true. That arrow shot really held up well from nineteen you could see the
7:29
matt lions around the edge. The better one is during the big climactic battle
7:34
at the end when they had they had this, and it really looked like
7:39
they trimmed the shot down to as tight as they could. Where what he
7:41
shoots the new slone rope. Yeah, yeah, and it's like that that
7:46
shot lasts like point seven five seconds, where like you have a feeling like
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the shot was you know, it was going sideways the perspective. I don't
7:58
think they were ready for it in ninety one, but but they used the
8:01
hell out of it in the commercials. That was all over the commercials at
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the time. That was that was supposed to be like a big selling point
8:09
for it. Man, that the hero shot with the fire behind him.
8:13
Oh it was. Oh, but it's like shooting an arrow, a fire
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arrow. And yes, that was that was. That was like they put
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that on the poster, they put it in the trailers, They had it
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all over the marketing materials. And even when I watched it, even even
8:28
though I've seen this dozens of times, when I watched it in preparation,
8:31
podcast. I still went, man, that's cool. It's just like a
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Reynolds shot at at three hundred frames per second. Wow, to get that
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super super super slow emotion. But that's the that's the thing, is this
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version that that was I the only one that watched the I didn't. I
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wasn't the only one who watched the extended versions. I watched the extend as
8:52
well, because I I, this is my first time watching the extended version,
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and so you know afterward. Reason why we all watched this is because
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it's as close to the director's vision as possible. It's been so long I
9:07
wouldn't have even I couldn't have told you what was new like I could.
9:11
Well, I'm sure you will, but yes, I couldn't tell. But
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yeah, it had been long enough that I couldn't recall of like, oh,
9:18
this shot feels new and different because obviously it wasn't a director's cut,
9:24
as in, we're going to completely change the movie. It's more like I
9:28
want to put back more in of what I had to take out. Yeah.
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The main thing, like there's there's kind of a storied history and this
9:37
is this is super surprising that Reynolds and Costner actually got together again for water
9:43
World because they did not get along on set with Prince of Thieves. You
9:48
know, Kevin Coster was a producer on this film. He helped get it
9:50
off the ground, and Reynolds and him clash over creative differences like hardcore on
9:58
set and post production. It got to the point where Kevin cost and his
10:03
producers literally locked the editor out of the editing suite so that they could do
10:09
their own cut, and Reynolds was banished from the edit and under DJA rules,
10:16
they had to show Reynolds the final cut even though we had no influence
10:20
over it. And Reynolds was not happy because his version was much closer to
10:26
the extended version. There's even more that's on a cutting ram floor than what's
10:28
in the extended version. And Reynolds was just happy that the extended version came
10:33
out. But they were so upset with each other it was It's super surprising
10:39
that they did water World together and they got pissed at each other about that
10:41
one too, And they must have been some sort of together contractual thing that
10:45
they couldn't get out of. I don't know what the story is. Listen,
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people who basically like an artistic collaboration can start out really great and really
10:58
strong, and you like, but the two people should never get out of
11:03
the pitch stage with each other sort of thing, because they're very strong personalities.
11:07
And I would, as an example, point to meat Loaf and Jim
11:13
Steinman, and you know, they did Bad out of Hell together and then
11:18
egos getting the way and all of this stuff, and you know, they
11:20
have a huge falling out and then they get back together and magic happens again
11:24
with Bad out of Hell Too, which is basically meat Loaf rerecording several songs
11:28
that Steinman had released and had failed with in the eighties, but there were
11:33
there were other tracks on there as well, And I remember at the time
11:37
that, uh, you know, when they're they're having the great success with
11:41
Bad out of Hell Too, an interview with meat Loaf where they basically said,
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well, you guys fight all the time, why did you come back
11:48
together? And he said, we're kind of like a married couple where we're
11:52
going to have our fights and we're going to come back because we do have
11:56
so much in common. So I really wonder if that's sort of at the
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core of Aasta and Reynolds, where it's like something that's saying, oh,
12:05
that awesome thing you just described to me, that's not going to work.
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That's totally not the right tone. And then they're like, oh, you're
12:11
right, but I'm not happy that you're right. You know again, like
12:15
you look back at Lucas and the Originals, and he had those opposition forces
12:20
of uh, you know, budget and other constraints and that I think produced
12:24
a superior product. Well, you know, it's it's one of those things
12:28
as well where ultimately you can say, oh, well, we're like a
12:31
married couple, but if you're not, actually, like the whole point of
12:33
marriage is to make it more difficult to break up, right, And if
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you're working with somebody on a film and you're the executive producer, that is
12:43
it. No, no, no, yeah, okay, listen, laugh
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all that you want to. Darren and I just looked at each other like
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laugh that. Yeah, okay, right. The point of marriage shoot arrows
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and get more difficult. It's right there, look, yeah, point of
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marriage exactly, hero shot man. Yeah, the point of marriage is a
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shooting arrow and save made Marian from a black mass at the end. Yes,
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that's it. Yes, and everybody's all happy and rides off to Brian
13:11
Adams at the end. No. I mean that's like but basically, what
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I'm saying is that when you have those strong personalities and you have something where
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one of them can win easily costner in this case, you're inevitably going to
13:24
have an uncomfortable conflict at the end where somebody gets locked out and it's it's
13:28
like a divorce where somebody just has you know, the better lawyers or something
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like that, and it's just like, you know, water World will be
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an interesting one to talk about as well. No, I think that's a
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really fair comparison, and I love I love the meat Loaf analogy there.
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I think that's great. No one thing. Did you did? Have either
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of you guys seen the Patrick Bergen Robin Hood that came out the same year.
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No, I didn't even know it existed. No, Uma Thurman plays
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made Marian Jurgen Procknell play. Uh. He placed Sir Miles Edward Foxes in
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it. I can never pronounce his name. Jerome Krabe very stay. Armageddon
14:11
Slash Deep Impactically this is an Armageddon Deep Impact thing. But the thing is,
14:16
though, is that they knew, they knew they would not be able
14:20
to compete with Prince of Thieves. So it was direct to TV, like
14:24
it was planned, but they yeah, they called an audible and they're like
14:30
crap, and so they went direct to TV. They was supposed to be
14:33
a theatrical release. It's it's pretty good. I mean, if I remember
14:37
correctly, it's been a long time, but it was directed by John Rivan
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and it's it's got some good qualities too. It's got a really great cast
14:43
and everyone should check it out. It's just called straight up. Robin Hood
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came out same year. That's so fascinating because that then, if you want
14:52
to draw their comparisons, that's like Tombstone versus Wyatt Earp, which is a
14:56
tussle that Costner gets involved in later in the decade, and then you have
15:00
you know, Deep Impact and Armygeddon and they have Volcano and Dante's Peak and
15:05
everything like that. It's so oh, that's right, yeah, that too.
15:11
It's so fascinating to me though, because now I really want to see
15:16
that because you know, like I'm just used to the idea that the other
15:20
person just says, screw it, we'll just really six months later and and
15:24
see see if the kids will still go see it. That's wild. So
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speaking of a cast in the Burgen Affair, this one is no slouch either,
15:35
which we've talked about a little bit. We got. We got Kevin
15:37
Costner as Robin of Loxley, Morgan Freeman as a Zim, Mary Elizabeth masked
15:43
help Me, John as Marian, Christian Slater is Will Scarlett, Alan Rickman
15:50
is not Agam, Jared mckewen, Geraldine McEwen as Mortiana, Michael McShane is
15:56
Friar Tuck, Brian Blessed for like two minutes of Lord Locksley, which yeah,
16:03
I was like, what was it, Flash go after you. She's
16:10
so good. And don't forget Boss Nass from The Phantom, minis Ruld And
16:15
of course the man who gets no credit ever in his movies but helps sell
16:21
them Michael Wincott. Oh that dude, Yes, you're absolutely thank you for
16:26
calling out Michael Wincott because, especially in the early to mid nineties, that
16:30
guy was a staple of the bad guy coterie and man, he he's such
16:38
a great screen presence. He's kind of like channeling like a Denni Thor,
16:45
kind of look like that slicked back, super long hair, like really Maddie
16:49
and I also loved uh and I think you already mentioned it, but like
16:55
Nick Nick Brimble as Little John is that Man of the Mountain like every Disney
17:02
movie from the eighties, and like that is that look even if it wasn't
17:07
him, Like he just walked out and you're like, oh, that's a
17:10
little job like he I hope he showed up for like addition, like that
17:14
looking just like that with that full face of hair and beard. You see
17:18
him. You absolutely believe that he lives in Surewood Forest, and I believe
17:25
that that's his wife and he's got eight kids. I believe it all.
17:30
Yeah, And going back to Michael Wincott, like I kind of feel like
17:34
there's like this trifecta trifect of him being an awesome bad guy with this one,
17:38
Prince of Thieves, the Three Musketeers, and County Monte Cristo, which
17:47
we're going to review in a couple of weeks. Like he is a fantastic
17:49
bad guy in all of those. And then you forgot the crow. Also
17:52
totally forgot the crow. You're right, man, I don't yeah, I
17:56
don't actually top dollar, wait was kind of what your was kind of Christo
18:00
we even talked about that. Yeah, so never Mind will replace the kind
18:06
of metric Gristo with Crowe for the night. Yeah, Monna Christo was O
18:08
two oh two. I thought that was right. Okay, so let's talk
18:11
about Allen Allen Rickman for a little bit. We'll get to Morgan Freeman,
18:15
we'll get to Kevin Costner, but we need to talk about Alan Rickman because
18:18
when people think about this film, yeah, they say, oh, it's
18:22
the Kevin Costner one, but really, really it's the Alan Rickman as the
18:26
Sheriff of Nottingham one. It's the Allen Rickman one. Now, Darren,
18:33
what do you think about Rickman's performance in this I mean, I think it's
18:36
really good. I think I mean it does feel like a young Rickman,
18:41
not so much as his age, but as looking at where his career went
18:47
and the deeper roles and the like, you know, the nuance he plays
18:52
as the you know, doctor Lazarus kind of character in Galaxy Quest. I
18:56
know, a weird one to pick, but I'm just saying I don't see
19:00
this age Rickman being able to do that. He's still very kind of like
19:04
all over the place, like he's giving a great performance but it is.
19:10
You can tell like there's some improv, which again isn't bad. It's just
19:15
you know, that's part of this role. But he Yeah, he's just
19:19
a scene chewing villain who's just loving being this bad guy and the look,
19:26
the black hair, and just this weird side plot with the hag that's his
19:30
mom, that's his like, it's it's it's kind of weird, but it's
19:34
funny. I want to talk about the improv a little bit, just because
19:37
you touched on it. Apparently a lot of his performance was improvisation. I
19:44
should say pseudo improvisation, because what he did was he got the script.
19:49
Actually no, they asked him two times to be in it, and he
19:53
said no. Both times He's like, I don't like this script like this,
19:56
I'm not going to do this movie. Can. They went to Sam
20:00
Neil I think, to play Nottingham, and they went to somebody else and
20:04
I can't remember, and then they finally came back to him and they said
20:07
and the director said, listen, okay, you could please do this role.
20:11
If you do this role, I'll let you have more control over your
20:15
character. He's like, fine, done, and so he took the script
20:19
and he went to some friends of his that were stand up comedians Ruby Wax
20:25
and Peter Barnes. Yeah, they did some punch up work together. They
20:30
sat down at a pizza place and did some punch up and then so he
20:33
took that and ran with it on set, and he told the director,
20:36
he said, He's like, this is the kind of stuff that I'm gonna
20:37
do. He's like, I'm not going to tell you exactly what I'm gonna
20:41
do, but this is kind of the direction of I'm going in. So
20:42
it wasn't like he was just going a wall or anything like that, like
20:45
he's you know, he was. He was still a professional, but specifically
20:49
so good that they're going to want to keep it in because it's so good.
20:53
Exactly, in order to do that, Kevin Reynolds didn't tell Kevin Costner
20:59
or the producer that he was going to do it to make it seem like
21:03
it was more off the cuff, so that it would be like, oh
21:07
my god, you just came up with that. That was It was brilliant
21:10
and and so so much of what you see in this movie of him,
21:14
which like the spoon thing, was all him, and it was it was
21:18
so funny that they added they wrote on the spot, like you know,
21:22
Michael Wincott saying, why a spoon cousin? You know, like what like
21:27
why there's not a follow up tonight joke that actually happens like three scenes later.
21:33
Yeah, yeah, exactly, And like that's that's how good it was.
21:36
And like the the whole like like you you know, coming to my
21:40
room at ten thirty, you at eleven, bring a friend, Like that
21:42
was all him. And like when they're shooting the fire arrows and he's like
21:47
picking his teeth again, that was all him. Like so much of these
21:52
these moments in this movie is just Alan Rickman just trying to be better,
21:56
just trying to make this movie better, and he absolutely succeeds because I have
22:00
no idea what this movie does without him, John, what do you think?
22:04
I think that this is all fair praise. I think this is all
22:08
correct in praising Rickman, who, Yeah, I mean an entire you know,
22:14
their their generations, multiple generations that will always love Alan Rickman unfortunately always
22:18
re encounter him through Diehard and other performances of his. But I think that
22:25
his performance underscores exactly what he didn't like about the script Initially, and what
22:32
I still don't like about the script and what I don't like about the fact
22:36
that he at times, I'll exclude Freeman from this because Freeman is taking the
22:42
script and he's doing he's he's working with it, he's making he's doing the
22:48
work. He understands what trajectory his career is on at this point, because
22:52
I think it was Lean on Me, came out late eighties at some point
22:56
where he played you know, I just call it crazy Joe now that can
22:59
call with a batman, right, that's his big splash on the scene.
23:03
Like that's people start to know his name. So he's on the big swing
23:07
upward here with his career. And so Freeman shows up and he is,
23:11
like you said, he's doing the work. But when you look at Freeman,
23:15
and then especially when you look at Rickman everybody else, the only word
23:22
I can really attach at times is joyless. These are people who showed up
23:26
and performed. These are not people who showed up with a lot of happiness
23:33
and energy and excitement for what they were doing. The flattest of them being
23:38
Costner, which is so insane, which is crazy to me, because he's
23:44
a producer on this film. He wanted to do this, he got the
23:48
project off the ground, and then he doesn't show up on camera. I
23:52
think that there is a tremendous sense rewatching it now for the first time in
24:00
quite a while, of with all of the producing role, with all of
24:04
the producing chores, with all of the weight, with all of the expectation.
24:08
I think what comes through in Costner's performance is he's very aware of what
24:14
a misstep this could be, and he's he's second guessing everything that he does.
24:18
The realist and most enjoyable moments with Costner are things like when he does
24:22
that spontaneous spin on the wall where he's having it. You know, you
24:27
see him spinning around, or like there's one time where he flips backwards off
24:30
of a tree or something like that. If you go back to an eighties
24:33
movie called Silverado, that's that's a great movie. But that's the Costner I
24:40
see in those little tiny moments. That's the guy that's trying to peek through
24:42
here. But what I see mainly is, you know, a man with
24:48
a lot of responsibilities show up on set, and the unfortunate thing is it
24:52
makes Rickman look even better to Costner's detriment, because Rickman. Rickman appears to
24:59
be having a good time, and I don't think that everybody else appears to
25:04
be having a good time in this movie. Different different vibe, you can
25:11
yeah, I think, like you said, like having a good time.
25:12
You can tell that he's just he's going to be a giant presence in any
25:19
scene that he's in, not like overshadowing, but like you know, when
25:23
he's going up and down the stairs, he's doing it with flourish and conviction,
25:27
like and that's very different than any of the other you know, actors.
25:33
One one question I just wanted to pin to you guys. I don't
25:37
have anything that documents this, but when you mentioned that there was another robin
25:41
Hood movie coming out that was almost going to go head to head to this,
25:45
my instinct gut Again, nothing to back this up, is that this
25:52
they wanted to call this robin Hood but changed it to robin Hood Prince of
25:56
Thieves, worrying about confusion if it's going up against another robin Hood, just
26:02
because usually don't movies want to be like the simplest of titles, like usually
26:07
don't want to add like a secondary you know, robin Hood the time he
26:11
saved made Marian or something like that. So again, this is just a
26:15
guess, but my guess is that they wanted to just call it robin Hood
26:19
and stop and then ended up because because Prince of Thieves like it is an
26:23
interesting subline, you know, of like we I mean, it's not men,
26:30
but you know, no, I like, I get, yeah,
26:33
I get, I get what you're saying there, because usually the colon and
26:37
then second part of the title was reserved for things like Star Trek six.
26:41
By this point, you didn't really have a lot of that type of thing
26:45
with movie titles that I can recall. I'm sure that somebody can come out
26:49
of the bleachers and tell me how wrong I am or something like that.
26:52
I'm with you, I can't think of that too often. I mean,
26:56
it's it's even if there are exceptions, it's a rare exception, you know,
27:00
John, I think there has to be something to what you're saying,
27:03
because we all know Kevin Costner can act, whether you like it or not,
27:07
whether you like him or not, is in material. He can act.
27:12
He's a movie star, he does well, he knows what he's doing.
27:15
But this is a young producer I think who's probably biting off more than
27:22
he can chew behind the camera, and it's it's affecting his performance in front
27:30
of the camera, that's my guess, because it's it's so strange to me
27:33
to watch this today seeing stuff like Silverado and Bull Durham and you know the
27:41
stuff that came before, where you like, he's good at what he's doing,
27:45
but it's it's just it's so lifeless. It's so when he speaks,
27:49
you're like, I don't believe what you're saying. It's it's it's like you
27:55
said, it feels joyless. It feels like he's going through the motions when
27:59
you know Alan Rickman and Morgan Freeman are showing up and doing the work.
28:03
I mean, and on top of that, Brian Blessed and Nick Bremble and
28:06
Michael Wincott, like they're all they're doing the work, having even Geraldine McEwen.
28:12
Now you know, Darren, you talked about Rickman kind of upstaging Costner.
28:18
The rumor is, and it's a rumor. I don't believe. The
28:22
rumor is. Is that part of the reason why the theatrical like why the
28:29
theatrical cut is the way that it is is because most of the stuff that
28:32
got cut and thus was added in the extended edition was scenes with Alan Rickman,
28:37
and the rumors that Costner was jealous of how well Rickman was doing and
28:42
tried to make it more of The Robin Hood Show than Nottingham. I don't
28:47
believe that at all, because watching the theatrical edition and the extended edition,
28:52
with the extended edition mainly being Nottingham stuff being put in, you absolutely don't
28:59
need that extra Nottingham stuff like you do not need it, And a good
29:03
editor and a good producer knows that, Like, I mean, I hate
29:10
to start off our House of Reynolds this way, but there's a reason why
29:14
you have producers, and there's a reason why producers get the Oscar for Best
29:19
Picture and not the director. And this is one of those reasons where you're
29:22
like, hey, this is your baby, You're really close to it.
29:26
You want to put in everything that you thought you were wanted to put in,
29:27
but here is a much more marketable piece. And speaking of which,
29:33
the theatrical addition that came out in ninety one had a forty eight million dollar
29:38
budget and ended up earning three hundred and ninety point five million dollars dollars worldwide
29:45
without marketing included. That's a fifteen time return and adjusted for inflation, that's
29:52
over eight hundred million dollars today with for today's dollars. Oh yeah, you
29:57
could tell this to amazingly well. But yeah, I also, you know,
30:04
I had to look it up because on the surface level on Wikipedia,
30:10
it doesn't say that Costner's a producer. But I told I'm like, oh,
30:11
I believe them, I'm pretty sure. And so I looked up on
30:15
Costner's page and it does indicate that he was a producer as well. But
30:18
I was looking again at his filmography and I'm like, wait, so,
30:22
how long does it take to make a movie? Because it was he was
30:26
like in triple production of Dances with Wolves, Robin Hood and JFK, like
30:32
back to back to back to back. Like so I think, yeah that
30:36
I think you can kind of see that a little bit in this movie of
30:40
they're kind of starting the ball rolling, but maybe the script isn't totally locked
30:45
down and they have to and a lot of it's outside, so you're beholden
30:48
to the weather a lot and so, and you're shooting in a very compressed
30:52
time frame and that can easily spell doom for a movie, but it kind
30:57
of getting that vibes. What do you think, John Well, I think
31:03
you hit it right there. I think that ultimately, and Costner's performance becomes
31:07
our northern star are true North on this with that compressed timeline, Dances with
31:18
Wolves, Robin Hood, Prince of Thieves, JFK. Something had to give
31:26
Dances with Wolves tremendous artistic success. Costner becomes a respected director, he becomes
31:33
a respected actor. It's a movie that makes a cultural impact at the time,
31:40
but it's already producing for this while that's coming out, and he's becoming
31:44
that household name. But you're also on the way to JFK, which is
31:48
Oliver Stone's massive JFK assassination conspiracy theory. And Stone is a name at this
31:59
point. Like and Stone demands a lot of his performers, I think,
32:04
if something's got to give, it's going to be your performance. I think,
32:07
if anything, the smartest possible thing that Costner could have done is excuse
32:12
himself from this production. Ego, money, all of those things prevent would
32:17
prevent that from happening. Warner Brothers would have balked the entire production, would
32:22
have been shuttered. Nobody would have had anything to do with it. But
32:27
it would have been the smartest thing for him to do, because if I
32:29
look at Dancy's Wolves and then I look at JFK, that's Kevin Costner,
32:34
I'm like, that's why that guy gets a paycheck and then somebody and maybe
32:37
that there was a moment of that, Maybe there was a moment of maybe
32:42
you need to step away, Kevin. But he's like, if I walk,
32:45
this movie's got all these people that have that are making a movie right
32:49
now, like it's gone, They're all jobless tomorrow. So I'd rather phone
32:53
in a little bit in this in between movie and still, you know,
33:00
turn out something that still made money. I mean, that's the thing is
33:04
that, like we're complaining about his performance of this movie made so much money.
33:07
This was a cultural Touchdowe for a big reason. Like this everybody was
33:12
talking about this movie. The Bryan Adams song was all over the radio,
33:15
the toys sold like crazy. This was a huge rental when it came out
33:21
on VHS. This was one of the first movies that you could actually that
33:24
went straight to buy on VHS. Like most of the time it was you
33:30
would go to a rental house where you could rent the TV for a little
33:34
bit, like first usually like on cable or whatever, and then renting and
33:38
then buying. But but yeah, this one went straight to like, no,
33:42
you can own this. You can own this today for twelve ninety nine.
33:45
But the thing is, John, I think you're absolutely right, because
33:49
you know, he gave his heart and soul into Dances with Wolves. He
33:52
created a production company just so he could make Dances with Wolves. He directed
33:55
Start and produced it, and he pulled a Mel Gibson and and then he
34:00
goes right into JFK and Robin and Prince of Thieves. I mean, it's
34:06
just he had to have been absolutely exhausted, and you know it. This
34:15
winds up being one of those things though because ninety one it's such an interesting
34:21
play as well, because there's no way Warner Brothers wants to back down from
34:25
this, because ninety one was the summer of Terminator two. And if you
34:30
follow traditional studio thinking, we gotta get we gotta get competition up there,
34:35
and we gotta make it out there. We gotta get things done. So
34:37
there's the added if this movie had been a flop, if this had gone
34:42
the last action hero versus Jurassic Park route shows over. Well, it's a
34:49
career ender sort of thing. The fact that it is successful, I think,
34:52
is a testament to the fact that one while we're sitting here complaining about
34:57
these things, audiences in general at the time enjoyed the flick. They had
35:02
a good time. It was escapist entertainment. They weren't expecting high art when
35:08
they saw a Robin Hood Prince of Thieves. They wanted a date movie where
35:13
they could go and look, the swashbuckling hero. This is an updated version
35:16
of Errol Flynn. He's going to show up, he's going to get the
35:20
damsel in distress and look, we're going to try to be a little more
35:23
you know, worldly and you know, culturally aware, where it's like,
35:30
okay, well, we're going to bring in somebody from the Middle East played
35:32
by Morgan Freeman, who's going to give service to that. When the first
35:36
time we meet made Marian, she's a badass fighter and the Sheriff of Nottingham
35:42
is an incompetent boob, and we're really going to lean into what an incompetent
35:45
idiot he is. And he's surrounded by fool sort of thing and then like
35:51
it gets the job done in terms of what an audience typically looks for.
35:57
I always go back when I watch something like this, I'm starting to be
36:00
super critical. I always go back to that one car ride I had with
36:04
my wife where she said to me, I'll never forget can't you just watch
36:08
movies like a normal person? Like? And every so often I'll be watching
36:13
something like Robin Hood Princes of Thieves nowadays, and I'll start to go down
36:15
a certain road and I'll hear her voice echo like Obi one while Luke is
36:21
flying his X wings, like, can't you just watch movies like a normable
36:23
person? And I'm like, it's true. It's much more enjoyable when I
36:27
do that. So for all of the complaints I might have about this,
36:34
especially in the summer of Terminator two, it did what Warner Brothers needed it
36:38
to do, which was it put butts in the seats, and it generated
36:42
receipts. So you know, so butts in the seats, some of those
36:49
butts were family members. Like, it wasn't just a date movie like in
36:55
the in the in the marketing, it was very much targeted towards family,
37:00
Like, this was a family fun adventure, and there was this was PG
37:06
thirteen, It was almost PG. I think it was blood and it was.
37:13
It was really weird stuff. There was some weirdness going on, like
37:16
with the international release, where like it was PG in the UK. It
37:19
was PG thirteen here, but they had to cut some stuff in the UK,
37:23
Like there was some weird controversy between is it PG, is it PG
37:27
thirteen? What's going on? This is very much not a PG film.
37:31
And even though at certain times, even though it was radied PG thirteen,
37:35
the marketing made you think it was kind of a family fun adventure. Now
37:39
there's there's witchcraft in it. There's there's there's devil worship, there's hangings.
37:46
There, there's a straight up rape. There's a straight up inverted cross over
37:51
an altar. Like that's that's like next level imagery right there. That's really
37:58
unsettled. Think it's the funniest thing where he's like, ok, either way,
38:02
that was not in the theatrical cut. That's in the extended edition.
38:05
Okay, I like that moment. It's it's it's pretty funny. But as
38:09
I just mentioned above, all there's an attempt there's an extended attempted rape that's
38:15
played for laughs at one point, and it's one of those things where you're
38:21
like, good lord, thank goodness, that wouldn't fly today. Like there's
38:27
there's certain things that are just like, oh, okay, okay, I'm
38:30
glad that we're we're not doing that right now. See, I think that
38:34
there's one shot that you can cut from that where it doesn't it doesn't come
38:39
across with the same sense of quote unquote playing for laughs. It has to
38:44
do exactly what you're talking to. Cut that one shot and you don't have
38:49
that moment. Trust me when I say, even back in ninety one,
38:52
people saw that shot and everybody was like, uh oh absolutely, Like with
38:57
all and with all the editing turmoil that goes on, that's one of those
39:01
things where you look at it and you're like, you spent that much time
39:05
on it, and you didn't take a second and look at this and go,
39:07
you know, maybe that one can come out just that poor taste.
39:10
Everyone. Are we in agreement, guys as they look around the room.
39:15
We know what's going on, we see what's happening. Do we need that
39:19
one shot? Could we take that out so that it doesn't feel like we
39:22
are laughing at it and she even has like made Marian has this incredibly powerful
39:29
moment and it's a heart breaking moment with this line where she says, you
39:34
may take this body, but it will not be me. You're like,
39:37
it's gut wrenching, and then it's followed up with a jokey gag and you're
39:42
like, God, dang it. But in the TV version, which was
39:45
the first version I saw and the only version I saw for a very long
39:50
time, that was the one shot that was cut from that scene. And
39:53
so when I saw it on Blu Ray years later, I was like,
39:57
what the hell was that? Well, it's it's really a true testament to
40:02
the fact that ultimately it's it's a very bizarre but very true thing that that
40:10
is. You know, we go back and forth between macro and micro editing,
40:16
and you have to have the awareness of I mean editing directing. All
40:24
of this stuff is a lot like painting, and there's a reason the painters
40:28
walk away from what they're doing and get distance from it so that they can
40:32
say, oh, no, the red should go over there or this.
40:37
You know, Okay, I see why this isn't quite working. I'm standing
40:39
too close to it that that gag that we're all talking about. That's a
40:45
bunch of people spending twelve hour days and they're like, okay, yeah,
40:49
just keep keep going, keep going. Yea, yeah we got that,
40:51
we got that. They needed somebody else. Make sure you get this in
40:54
there. Yeah, yeah, they needed somebody else sitting in there going pull
41:00
that one to just that one. And that's what's so frustrating about it.
41:05
But the thing is, I think it really tells a lot about the ending
41:09
itself is a real mess. There's so much happening, and everybody loves to
41:16
drag Lucas about Phantom Menace for everything. But at the very least, with
41:22
the four things going on the four ending, you know everything that's going on,
41:30
you know where everybody is, you know what's going on, you know
41:31
why it's happening. Whereas with this one, you're like, wait, if
41:36
they can't get into the room, how she get out? And who's over
41:39
there? And what who's what? What's happening there? Like, the ending
41:45
is such a gosh darn mess that it like I and I remember all the
41:50
way back in ninety one, I had a bunch of friends who liked the
41:53
movie, and I was the only one sitting there. I was like,
41:58
I don't know that ending was kind of kind of clums Yeah, I don't
42:00
know how I feel about that. And they're like, no, it was
42:02
really great. I was like, okay, sure, and you know,
42:07
flash forward many years later. I was like, no, I was right,
42:09
and now you make podcasts permanently, right because it's recorded. I it's
42:16
it's interesting that you bring it up, John, because you know, when
42:20
I saw this, I was, you know, I was a kid.
42:22
I watched it all the time with my dad and we watched it as a
42:25
family, and I still remember. I still remember, man, I like
42:31
it was yesterday. When it was announced that it was going to be on
42:36
TV. We hooked up the VCR and we're, you know, like my
42:40
dad's in the kitchen making popcorn and my mom was screaming at him saying it's
42:45
starting, it's starting, and he runs in with the popcorn. The popcorn
42:51
is literally falling out of the bowl and he hits record on the remote on
42:54
a blank VAHS tape. I'm sure I could still find the VAHS tape today
43:00
and find that start in the middle of the opening credits where you don't you
43:05
don't really miss anything but I've seen this so many times, you know,
43:09
as a child and as a young person, but I really haven't seen that
43:13
much as an adult. And when I watched it, like, I've been
43:15
an editor for twenty years now, a video editor, and when I watched
43:22
this, like my wife said like, hey, what, you know,
43:23
what do you think of it? You know, what do you think of
43:25
the movie? You know, since you haven't seen it for so long.
43:28
And I was like, well, it's it's a great action piece. It's
43:30
you know, it's really thrilling, and like the you know, the production
43:34
is really great with practical effects and everything horrible editing. And she's like,
43:39
what do you mean and I said, I was like, I was like,
43:40
well, you know, at the very beginning with a Zeem in the
43:46
yep, you know, when they're in the prison in the in the close
43:52
up shot, both of his hand This may sound stupid, but both of
43:55
his hands are tied up against the wall, and then in the medium shot,
44:01
his hands are tied up in front of him so that Robin can cut
44:06
it, cut him, cut him down, because that's the point is he
44:08
doesn't have a metal chain, which is why he's able to be freed and
44:13
That's why it's such a huge mistake. It's a plot point and so and
44:17
it doesn't just happen once. It happens three times. They go back and
44:22
forth between him being chained up against the wall to him being changed in his
44:25
in his hands, and then when they arrive home on English in England Shores
44:32
for the first time in the behind and when they're in the reverse, like
44:37
they're the cameras behind the dinghy, Kevin Costner is not in the boat,
44:45
he's not standing up, he's not in the boat, and then they go
44:46
to the reversal, he's standing up in the front happen and all all throughout
44:52
this movie, it's filled with stuff like that, and I mean, it's
44:58
insane even speaking of a zem like I win. I can't remember exactly what
45:04
it was, but maybe like three quarters through I was kind of like,
45:07
where does zeb go? I just kind of realized I hadn't seen him on
45:12
screen for quite a while, and it was like, not that he had
45:15
to be like a main plot point, but you know he had. They
45:20
built this huge camaraderie at the beginning, and then he kind of just vanishes
45:25
until the last act, and I was like, oh, i'd like I
45:30
wanted. Well, he did have the scene in the middle where he helps
45:34
deliver Fanny's baby. I mean he has scenes. I just I felt myself
45:37
physically noticing that I was wondering where he was. Well, he was that
45:43
leg wound that he had exactly nursing it so that he could come in at
45:47
the last second and throw his curved blade as hard as possible so that I
45:52
would impale Moretiana. Well, what's what's really interesting is that the editor,
46:00
Peter Boyle, he worked with Reynolds a lot. He worked with Reynolds previous
46:06
to this on like Beasts of War. He worked with him after this on
46:12
Rapa Nui. He worked with him on water World, he worked with Kevin
46:16
Costner on The Postman, and he worked with Reynolds again in the two thousands
46:22
on a movie we're not watching, but like, so obviously Boyle does something
46:29
that the directors like this one. I don't blame Peter Boiotol for two reasons.
46:36
Being an editor for as long as I have been, I know what's
46:39
an editing mistake and what's a production mistake. This very much felt like,
46:45
oh my god, this is all you're giving me to work with like really
46:49
like you didn't shoot the meter take with what he needs and he cannot make
46:54
it. And they don't have digital technology too like they would normally like cg
46:59
out his hands and ceg them in front. You could do it for like
47:02
a couple thousand dollars and boom you're back in business. But you can't do
47:06
that in ninety one. This was very much a director and production of mistake.
47:10
I don't blame Peterborough at all. And also on top of that,
47:14
this edit was taken away from him, so we had no idea what was
47:19
him and what wasn't him. That's an excellent so you know it's it's I
47:23
don't I don't blame him at all. Well, I want to ask you
47:27
guys actually about the photography, because there were moments where I felt what was
47:30
being done with the camera was really dynamic and fun. Right, there were
47:35
some really crazy shots. There were like this felt like somebody getting in there
47:39
and saying, you know what they gave us. They gave us a dump
47:43
truck full of money. Let's really make this count, guys, We're gonna
47:46
have a grand time with this. And then there are other shots where it's
47:49
like Okay, yeah, just turn on the camera. Okay, did we
47:52
get it? Did we get it? Okay, we're doing it. It
47:54
felt like an ed Wood picture at certain points where it was like, Okay,
47:58
we got the shot, let's keep moving this. I don't know what's
48:01
going on with that. It's I know, I know exactly what we're talking
48:05
about. It's Reynolds and Costner. Yeah. Costner did a lot of the
48:09
second unit shooting, like he directed a lot of the Second Union, the
48:14
second Unit stuff, and so it was very much utilitarian, let's get it
48:21
done, let's get it into the can, let's keep going, let's go,
48:22
let's go, let's go. And that was Costner, and then the
48:27
stuff where let's go, I just go shoot JFK. So you know,
48:31
and we're burning daylight. Yeah, I want to go to sleep. Let's
48:36
just get this done. Because there were some parts, like a lot of
48:39
the duel, especially the end duel, like you can tell they're using really
48:44
long lenses, like to get that sword coming out at you and to feel
48:49
that closeness. But yeah, and then other times, yeah, I wouldn't
48:54
go as far to say it's all over the map, but like there's also
48:58
times when like the sheriff's going down into his area, and there's like two
49:01
torches light in this whole room, and that is it. There is no
49:06
key light anywhere. Key light. What's a key light? But then they
49:08
get down to the dudgeon set with the you know, the planks and the
49:14
rats and the you know fog, and it's the most well lit even room
49:20
of the entire castle. And it's like, Okay, I guess we got
49:22
the magic of you know, magic light in here. But yeah, but
49:27
there's there's awesome shots the half circle of white robed bad guys taking on Locksley
49:35
with the torches like that's pretty Like there's some striking shots in this, for
49:38
sure, there's one. There's one striking shot. I'm glad that you said
49:44
that. That is absolutely amazing and really cool, but at the same time
49:47
makes me laugh out loud every single time I see it. Okay, oh,
49:54
I thought you meant when the catapult over the wall, because it's when
50:00
everybody thinks that Robbin's dead and and like it's it's after the Sherwood fight,
50:07
and then it's at night, and then all of a sudden we see his
50:09
silhouette walking through the forest and there's this the moon light behind hit the brightest
50:19
moon I've ever seen. It is like the largest floodlight you've ever seen.
50:23
That they used to advertise motion pictures in the nineteen thirties, like the bat
50:30
the bat symbol signal is behind him. That's how much is lighting the forest.
50:35
And you know, you know, on set they're like, oh god,
50:37
this is so freaking cool, but there's no motivation the light. PA
50:44
is like, but where's the light coming from? Shush, be quiet,
50:46
Timmy, get us some coffee. You out now? Yeah, well yeah,
50:52
yeah, I'm yes, it's but also in terms of the DP,
50:59
like it be great to say, well, you know he also he was
51:01
the cinematographer on Full Metal Jacket, and it's like, but we've we've talked
51:06
about Kubrick and it's like, well, that just means that you showed up
51:08
on set because Kubrick just wanted to. It's like the year's your paycheck.
51:13
Just go sit over there. You may know what I want speed. Maybe
51:15
I don't know if that was in your your list of duties. But in
51:20
his future was the exciting entry into into film called Highlander End Game. So
51:25
if you've ever seen Highlander End Game, there you go, that's I have
51:30
seen that. Now, Okay. With Reynolds, you know often we talk
51:32
about you know, this is our first Reynolds film network that we are reviewing,
51:38
and so we can't really say where do you see Reynolds and everything like
51:42
that. But I've seen water World. I've seen it a lot. I
51:45
like it. I've seen all the versions. I've seen the TV version,
51:49
I've seen the theatrical, I've seen the Ulysses cut and everything like that.
51:53
I can't remember, John, can you look up who shot up? Who
51:57
shot water World? Yeah? Yeah, there's when I see Prince of Thieves
52:06
and have seeing you know, water World a lot and seen it recently,
52:09
you can really tell, like, okay, this was the same director.
52:14
Like it? You really feel it? Yes, John, he shot He
52:19
has known for, according to Wikipedia, the Road Warrior Dances with Wolves Dead
52:25
Calm, which is a delightful little horror movie. That's I was getting kind
52:30
of Road Warrior vibes. And he was also apparently director of photography on Apocalypto.
52:39
So it's is not an underrated Mel Gibson movie that is underrated. No,
52:43
okay, So it's not the same person who did Prince of Thieves.
52:45
No, no, it is not. Okay, that's really interesting and that
52:50
is really cool to know because our touch point for this is Nolan with uh
52:58
Hollie Fisher and Hoyt Van HOYTMA, thank thank you, thank you very much.
53:01
I can never remember those things when like when when Hoyt first did a
53:07
Nolan film, We're like, Okay, what's it gonna look like? Is
53:09
it gonna be crazy different? And then we see it and you're like,
53:13
oh, it's just a Nolan film. And with this one, that's kind
53:16
of how I felt like when I saw Prince of Thieves and then when I
53:20
saw water World, I was like, oh, this is a Reynolds film.
53:22
Cool. It might not matter who the DP is that that is an
53:28
over you know, simplification. But you guys know what I'm trying to say,
53:32
like like he has a vision, he wants, he knows what he
53:36
wants to put on on screen, The director knows what he wants, the
53:38
DP knows how to give him what he wants, and maybe there's a little
53:42
give and take on certain shots where he says, I think this would look
53:44
better and the director will listen. Now before we as we're rounding third we
53:52
would be remiss if we did not talk about Cayman's score. Yeah, holy
53:59
crash, oh man, this score. This could be the best thing about
54:02
the movie. It is. I'll say it's the most consistently good thing about
54:07
the movie. I'll say that, I think even better way to put it,
54:12
Darren, It's the most consistently good thing about this movie is came out
54:16
score. Yes, I don't think there's much more to say. I mean,
54:21
honestly, it's really good. It's and and it's got motifs. I
54:24
love the Marion MOUTI the love motif, you know me, and motives.
54:29
If I don't have motifs, I'm like, what score. I don't even
54:31
remember movies over credits rolls, not even in his saggeration, folks, he
54:37
will not remember it if there's not a motif. But yeah, and again,
54:42
you know, what can we say about yeah, the oh yeah for
54:44
the opening credits, but then they bring it back, you know, in
54:46
the ending and the clematic moments, and yeah, it's like you hear it
54:51
and you know this is Robin Hood, like it's very iconic. Al Right,
54:55
well, and came in. Let's just give him credit because everybody knows
55:00
Brian Adams did everything I do, I do it for you, but Cayman
55:06
was the composer on that, right, And it's like the funniest thing is
55:12
as I was out buying a lottery ticket, getting ready to record this show
55:17
and hopefully win the lottery and then tell you all what I really think of
55:21
you, the the everything I do, I do it for you came over
55:27
the loud Scoe Well, I was. It was the weirdest thing. I
55:30
was like Christopher no Like I was gonna speed dial. Christopher Nol would be
55:32
like, am I being inceptioned right now? Because this is not right?
55:37
But yeah, like you can't escape the song. It's everywhere. It's insta
55:42
like, yeah, you that just happened to you. Yes, that is
55:46
crazy town. Blew my mind. Maybe it's a sign I win the lottery.
55:50
Who knows. There's one little bit of trivia that don't want to give
55:53
before we give our ratings. And this is gonna be a hard film to
55:57
rate. This is gonna be a really hard film to rate. The original
56:00
marian for this was Robin Wright, and she she was in pre production,
56:08
she was cast, she was in pre production, she was in rehearsals.
56:13
She was going to show up to film, and then I think, maybe
56:15
less than two weeks before the first day of filming, she's like, holy
56:20
crap, I'm pregnant, Like I can't do this film, and like,
56:27
god, dang it, what are we gonna do? And so then they
56:28
get Mary Elizabeth Muster and Twitter. So this would have been like right after
56:36
the Princess Bride, like rioting that Princess Bride hype. You know, yep.
56:40
I I think there would have been nice chemistry between cost her and right,
56:46
didn't they do a movie together, like messaging in a bottle or something?
56:51
Wasn't that them? Oh? How am I supposed to know? I
56:53
don't know something like that. I think I think the chemistry would have been
56:57
good. I like Mary Elizabeth Da Da in this movie. I think she
57:00
does a good job. I would have said, it's the same way.
57:04
Sorry, I love her, but I cannot. But Robin Wright, you
57:07
know me, guys, I mean, oh my god, I'd love me
57:09
some Robin Right. So I wish there was like an alternate reality version where
57:14
I could have seen Robin Wright in this movie. I think that you're probably
57:20
right, because there isn't a lot of chemistry between Costner and nashtional Tonio,
57:24
and I think probably that's just a function of the fact that he was in
57:30
rehearsals with Robin Wright and then all of a sudden, new actress comes on
57:34
and it's like, what do I do here? You know, it can
57:37
be tough to find that chemistry, especially if you've found it with somebody before.
57:42
I mean, there's a reason that casting is so important. There's a
57:45
reason you have a casting credit. It's because somebody picked someone very specifically.
57:51
Sometimes it works out okay, like Michael Keaton and Kim basing Her in nineteen
57:53
eighty nine's Batman. But sometimes you don't have the spark, like in nineteen
57:59
ninety one Robin Hood Prince of Thieves. And that's why you do a literal
58:02
chemistry test where you do on camera tests to see how they do on camera.
58:07
And I was right. Chemo Coster and Robin Wright did a movie together
58:09
called Message in a Bottle in nineteen ninety nine. It was all romance and
58:14
stuff. Okay, Darren aka doctor sci Fi. I want to know.
58:20
I gotta go first, what do you what are you rating this film?
58:23
And you were famous for not giving half stars. No, I have never
58:27
given a half star. This is gonna be hard because you know, alas
58:31
of this film are four stars, but yet other aspects aren't. So you
58:37
want to give it a three and a half. But you see, see
58:42
I would I I'd say it's a little easier because I would go the other
58:45
way where I'd say some aspects like score some of the you know, like
58:51
the some of the great characters like I mean again, I love me some
58:55
Little John the Friar, like they are just Alan Rickman, you know,
59:00
they are some of the roles in this they become like that role, like
59:06
that is the role that any future Robin Hood has judged against for a while.
59:14
So for me, it was more like some parts of this are a
59:15
five, but some parts are four. So that's where I'm teetering between.
59:22
Because it's also Robin Hood. It's Robin Hood, Prince of Thieves. It's
59:24
you know, a blockbuster of a movie, a nineties staple, a cultural
59:29
touchstone. These are all things we've said, but I don't. I can't
59:32
give it a five. It's it does have issues, you know, besides
59:38
the continuity, besides some of the other parts. I'm curious, tristed,
59:45
you know, if you have a moment in your wrap up on just what
59:49
you feel like the overall pace. I know you talked about the editing,
59:52
but pace wise because they do spend a good chunk of like establishing Robin,
59:58
like the you know, if you think about when we actually get to like
1:00:00
the little John meeting the Mary men, it's a good chunk into the movie.
1:00:06
So but overall, I have to give this a four. It's it's
1:00:09
a It's a great movie. It's very rewatchable. Alan Rickman is just ship
1:00:15
proving while he why he is. Alan Rickman deserves all the roles and he
1:00:21
is a great bad guy. But like I will stand by, this does
1:00:25
feel like a young Alan Rickman of who has it kind of matured in in
1:00:30
what he can. I won't, I won't, I won't go that far,
1:00:35
but I'd say that he is one of the best things about this movie.
1:00:40
And I'm glad that this launched so many careers, that it pushed so
1:00:45
many things, and Costa didn't even need it. He was already on a
1:00:47
rocket ship to Mars. But so I'm giving Robin Hood should have just been
1:00:52
Robin Hood a four. John hurts my heart to come to this point because
1:01:00
this is a movie that I was lukewarm on back in ninety one, as
1:01:05
much of a fun memory as it is that I have tied to it,
1:01:09
and it is a movie that I want to love, Like there are so
1:01:15
many things about that, like the I think the music is a five.
1:01:21
I think that the vibe of like early nineties, late eighties, like mega
1:01:24
blockbuster vibe. I'm like, yeah, this is right there. I think
1:01:30
that Morgan Freeman as a Zeem is fun and funny, and I think he's
1:01:36
very representative of sort of like a tonal shift of what's happening in Hollywood in
1:01:43
terms of like understanding, you know, the global perspective of certain things and
1:01:49
stuff like that. I think that's neat. I think that Alan Rickman's having
1:01:53
a good time, and I'm having a good time when he's having a good
1:01:55
time, with the exception of one shot, and I think that the problem
1:02:04
is that the ultimate issue is the script, and that the star of the
1:02:09
film doesn't really seem to care as much about this as he does about his
1:02:15
other stuff. Good. It's a guy, like we said, it's a
1:02:19
guy weighted down by all the responsibilities he has on set. So I want
1:02:23
to really like this movie. But I don't and I never have. But
1:02:30
I don't hate this movie. So I because I do give half stars.
1:02:37
I'm on pins and needles. My goodness, I'm I'm I've had so much
1:02:40
fun talking about it. I'm giving it a two and a half. Oh
1:02:44
what come on? Come on? Two? Two and a half, two
1:02:49
and a half. I didn't stutter. You heard me, two and a
1:02:52
half? What? What? What did you rate Aquaman? Aquaman? Yeah?
1:03:00
Wait, the one with Jason Momoa, that was a one. On
1:03:02
a good day, it's a half star. That movie sucked. Like I
1:03:07
heard people applauding in that theater, and the guy that was with me laughed
1:03:10
because he saw my face when people started applauding at the end of Jason Momoa
1:03:15
was Aquaman. He like started laughing because I had this look on my face,
1:03:19
like what is wrong with all of you? Like I was like a
1:03:22
lane at the end of English pace, it was like, no, you
1:03:23
shut up, Like, so, don't bring Aquaman at me. For some
1:03:28
reason, I thought you gave it a two. I can't remember God.
1:03:30
For some reason I thought you gave it a two. If I did,
1:03:34
I have to go edit that right now because I hated that movie. No,
1:03:37
the movie is hot garbage. I am sad. I'm sorry. That's
1:03:44
I'll watch I'll watch Robin Hood Prince of Thieves a thousand times before I'll watch
1:03:47
Aquaman again. Okay two and a half who Okay, so we're we're gonna
1:03:52
have some wildly different ratings here have some post podcast discussion and as we hashed
1:04:00
this out amongst our members. Oh yeah, Officially on the letterbox, I
1:04:04
gave it Aquaman a one, but probably because I enjoyed how much I hated
1:04:09
it. All Right, I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna find I'm gonna search
1:04:14
your letterbox and I'm gonna find some other two and a half star films and
1:04:16
I'm gonna go. Really, you think the same quality as Robin raining deeds?
1:04:23
Bring it so, Darren, you talked about pacing a little bit,
1:04:27
and in terms of the theatrical cut, the pacing I think was very good.
1:04:32
I think this was a well paced movie. And I enjoyed seeing Robin
1:04:38
of Locksley before he became Robin Hood. I like seeing him during the crusades
1:04:44
and trying to get home. And this was miles better than Ridley Scott and
1:04:48
Russell Crowe's Robin Hood because he didn't become Robin Hood. We're not even going
1:04:53
to talk about that movie. We're not even it doesn't even good board Well,
1:04:56
I'm just saying that, Like, he didn't even become Robin Hood until
1:05:00
five seconds before the end credits. It was it was like a serious It
1:05:05
was so freaking stupid. It was like it was like a mirror universe version
1:05:11
of Casino Royale, where like, you know, you hear the bomb theme
1:05:15
at the end of Casino Royal, we were like, oh, yeah,
1:05:16
he's become Bond. This is cool. It was the opposite of that,
1:05:20
like they were trying to do that, but it was the opposite of it
1:05:24
this movie, you know, like you know, it's later in the film
1:05:26
when he becomes Robin of the Hood. But I think it worked. And
1:05:31
the going back he becomes the Prince of Thieves. That's where it drops at
1:05:34
the end. There you go, it put in the title and and so
1:05:42
you know, to answer your question, like, I think I think the
1:05:44
theatrical version is paced very well. Could it have been even tighter, yes,
1:05:49
But in comparison to the extended edition and what Kevin Reynolds wanted to do.
1:05:55
It was very tight, It was very very well paced and so like
1:05:58
we all said, like, the music is great, Uh, the micro
1:06:02
editing is not so good. Kevin Costner didn't show up. Morgan Freeman,
1:06:08
Alan Rickman, Brian Blessed, Michael McShane, Michael Wyncott, Nick Grimble,
1:06:12
all really fun. Sugerette as Fanny. I mean when like, there's so
1:06:15
many lines from this movie that I still use in my daily vernacular, like
1:06:20
when when Fanny is, you know, on the ledge and she's like,
1:06:25
hello, my lover, Like I will answer the phone that way to my
1:06:29
when my wife calls, and sometimes I forget that it's from Robin Hood Prince
1:06:31
of Thieves. Like there's there's so much of this movie. We haven't even
1:06:35
talked about Christians Later. But regardless, there's this film. I want to
1:06:43
love this film, and I do love this film, but objectively there's so
1:06:48
many flaws and so I give it a loving three and a half. That's
1:06:53
what I give this film. Oh you're coming after me for a two and
1:06:56
a half. You give it a three and a half. Come on,
1:06:57
now, Yeah, that's that. One star is a big difference. There
1:07:00
is a bit of a difference between those two just for contexts or so everybody
1:07:03
knows because I love Star Trek five. I watched Star Trek five. Everybody
1:07:08
knows the story of me and Star Trek five, and if you don't,
1:07:12
you should. Star Trek five is a movie I give two and a half
1:07:15
stars because I see what they're going for. But I just can't get past
1:07:20
where they fail. You give them bad marks because they should have done better.
1:07:25
Yeah, and that's basically where Robin Hood Prince of Thieves is. We
1:07:29
are at an hour and ten minutes. I had no idea we were going
1:07:32
to go with this along with Robin and Prince of Thieves in nineteen ninety one,
1:07:35
direct by Kevin Reynolds, starring Kevin Costner. So next week, I'm
1:07:43
super excited because this is not just a universal theme park attraction. This is
1:07:51
a movie that was once labeled the biggest box office bomb of all time.
1:08:00
And this is not how things were the bomb in the nineties where it was
1:08:03
good. This was the bomb as in bad, and that is want a
1:08:08
world again. Sorry, and Kevin Costner, And as Darren mentioned at the
1:08:13
top of the show, we are watching the Ulysses cut so if you guys
1:08:16
can actually get a hold of the Ulysses cut, you should. It was
1:08:19
released by Aero Video. It was a fan cut that gained so much popularity
1:08:25
that the production company was like, you know what, this is so cool,
1:08:28
Let's make it official. And they did, and that is an awesome
1:08:31
story in and of itself, which we will talk about next week here on
1:08:36
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