Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Legal Heir Alex Murdaugh, Suspect in Wife & Son's Murders Names 'REAL KILLER'

Transcript

Legal Heir Alex Murdaugh, Suspect in Wife & Son's Murders Names 'REAL KILLER' · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece. Well he just won't go away,
0:13
Speaker 1: will he. I'm talking about legal air air to a
0:18
Speaker 1: multimillion dollar legal dynasty. Alex Murdock, the one who is
0:24
Speaker 1: now charged in the murder of his wife Maggie and
0:29
Speaker 1: son Paul. Remember him, the one who got shot mysteriously
0:35
Speaker 1: by an unknown assailant on a rural road. Well, now
0:41
Speaker 1: it's out. Alex Murdock, who has fleeced his clients for
0:48
Speaker 1: millions and millions of dollars, most of it went straight
0:53
Speaker 1: up his nose. He now has revealed what really happened.
0:58
Speaker 1: Guess what really happened? South Carolina legal star Alex Murdoch
1:05
Speaker 1: claims it was his cousin who murdered his wife and
1:09
Speaker 1: his son, in fact, the same cousin that shot him
1:13
Speaker 1: in the head. Well, my first question would be, well,
1:16
Speaker 1: if your cousin shot you in the head on an
1:19
Speaker 1: old dirt road, then why did you tell police it
1:22
Speaker 1: was an unknown as Salem that drove back and forth
1:25
Speaker 1: eyeing you, came back to shoot you. How could we
1:31
Speaker 1: didn't tell him that then? I mean, see, Grace, this
1:34
Speaker 1: is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here
1:37
Speaker 1: at Fox Nation and Sirius Xmone eleven. You know what
1:40
Speaker 1: I love almost as much as I love putting a
1:44
Speaker 1: bad guy behind bars. I love it when they talk.
1:48
Speaker 1: I love it when they try to lie their way
1:51
Speaker 1: out of the hole they dug themselves. Joining me an
1:56
Speaker 1: all star palem to make sense of what we know
1:58
Speaker 1: right now. But first I want to go to a
2:01
Speaker 1: special guest joining us An Emerson, senior investigative reporter wc
2:06
Speaker 1: Ivy ABC News in Charleston and the star of award
2:11
Speaker 1: winning podcast Unsolved South Carolina, the Murdoch Murders, money and Mystery,
2:18
Speaker 1: and take a listen to this well. This new filing
2:23
Speaker 1: indicates that they believe Eddie Smith could have had something
2:26
Speaker 1: to do with the murders of Murdoch's wife and son,
2:29
Speaker 1: and investigators turned a quote blind eye. The court document
2:33
Speaker 1: stopped short of blaming Smith outright for the crimes, but
2:36
Speaker 1: do point to a polygraph test conducted on smith bias
2:40
Speaker 1: led agent in May of this year. Now. Smith reportedly
2:43
Speaker 1: failed this test three times twice when asked if he
2:47
Speaker 1: shot Maggie and Paul and if he was present when
2:50
Speaker 1: they were but Smith denied that he was anywhere near
2:53
Speaker 1: the crime scene at the time and had friends at
2:56
Speaker 1: his home the evening of the murders. You were hearing
2:59
Speaker 1: our friends v C sc and Emerson what is happening?
3:04
Speaker 1: Because you know, as soon as Alex Murdog points to
3:09
Speaker 1: his cousin, which he has now done, he's the quote
3:12
Speaker 1: real killer, the cousin is going to come up with
3:15
Speaker 1: an alibi. And now he Murdog and his legal team
3:19
Speaker 1: is stuck with this accusation. They're in it now, they
3:23
Speaker 1: can't get out of it. That's what they've got to
3:24
Speaker 1: go to trial with. Well, this is incredible, Nancy. You know,
3:28
Speaker 1: every time we think we know which way this story
3:31
Speaker 1: is going, it gives us another twist in turn, doesn't it.
3:34
Speaker 1: And with Eddie Smith now being at the bulldye of
3:40
Speaker 1: the whole defense for Alec Murdoch's attorneys, you start seeing
3:45
Speaker 1: the pieces of the puzzle come together for sure. I mean,
3:48
Speaker 1: we have been hearing about this guy ever since the
3:53
Speaker 1: alleged assisted suicide attempt back in Labor Day of twenty
3:57
Speaker 1: twenty one. Whoa hey, wait, wait wait the alleged assisted
4:04
Speaker 1: suicide attempt. Now, let's be clear. What you're talking about
4:10
Speaker 1: is when Alex Murda got shot in the head on
4:12
Speaker 1: the dirt road, Jackie, can you pull up the sound
4:13
Speaker 1: where he claims it was an unknown assailant in a
4:17
Speaker 1: truck driving by, And remember and the trut went all
4:22
Speaker 1: the way down the road and then comes back and
4:24
Speaker 1: then shoots him. At that time he said he didn't
4:27
Speaker 1: know who did it. Remember that, he said he was
4:30
Speaker 1: on this dirt road fixing a flat tire or some
4:34
Speaker 1: problem with his his vehicle, which we then found out
4:37
Speaker 1: his vehicle has those ties that never go flat. Anyway,
4:42
Speaker 1: that was a lie. Then he got to the story
4:46
Speaker 1: of assisted suicide. Remember his story changed several times. At
4:51
Speaker 1: first it was an unknown asailant, remember that, And I
4:53
Speaker 1: do remember that, and I remember getting the call. I
4:57
Speaker 1: actually was talking to his Jim Griffin the day that
5:02
Speaker 1: story came out, And all we knew for a few
5:05
Speaker 1: minutes at least was that he was shot, that Alec
5:10
Speaker 1: Murdock had been shot and he was getting to a hospital. No,
5:13
Speaker 1: Dear Lord and Heaven. An Emerson, Joe Scott, do you
5:17
Speaker 1: remember when Alex Murdock came into court after he had
5:21
Speaker 1: been quote shot in the head, was serious brain injury.
5:25
Speaker 1: He had on a band aid. He had on a
5:28
Speaker 1: band aid The only thing that could have made it
5:31
Speaker 1: worse is he if he had an action star like
5:33
Speaker 1: Superman bandaid. He had in a bandaid about this big,
5:37
Speaker 1: a little one. You know when you buy the box,
5:39
Speaker 1: Joe Scott, let me finish, you know, when you buy
5:41
Speaker 1: the box of a sort of band aids. And they
5:43
Speaker 1: got the really big one that nobody can ever use,
5:45
Speaker 1: and then the correct So I didn't had a little
5:47
Speaker 1: bitty ones. It was one like that. It was stuck
5:49
Speaker 1: on his head. That was the shot to the head.
5:53
Speaker 1: There was no brain injury, nothing like that at all. Yeah,
5:57
Speaker 1: you're right. I've got a few SpongeBob bandaids at my
5:59
Speaker 1: house from my grand babies, and they could have used
6:01
Speaker 1: one of those on there. I was thinking, you know
6:03
Speaker 1: that he may have, you know, because even Gray's gunshot wounds,
6:06
Speaker 1: you can have an underlying skull fracture and it's a
6:09
Speaker 1: concussive event. How many times have I told you to
6:11
Speaker 1: speak English? Regular people? Dummy down for me? Okay, wait, wait, wait,
6:17
Speaker 1: I want wait. Is this the one nine one one
6:19
Speaker 1: call where he shot on the side of the road.
6:21
Speaker 1: Is that the one you've done? Wait a minute, wait
6:23
Speaker 1: a minute, hit it, Jackie hamt be coinning I on
6:26
Speaker 1: one way of your emergency. Yes, Um, we're on the
6:29
Speaker 1: Zacca Hasty road and there is a man on the
6:32
Speaker 1: side road with one overlaying his hands. He just laying
6:37
Speaker 1: the fleet, weaving his hands round. Fine, he looks fine,
6:40
Speaker 1: but it kind of looks like a set up, so
6:42
Speaker 1: we didn't stop. Oh, I don't believe you. What areask
6:44
Speaker 1: I had you rude on you on? All walking? We're walking? Hay?
6:52
Speaker 1: Did you hear that it looks like a setup that?
6:56
Speaker 1: That's what she said? And the guy is fine, except
7:00
Speaker 1: quote laying there waving his hands or standing there. You
7:03
Speaker 1: have more for me, Jackie, go ahead? Okay, what's going on?
7:08
Speaker 1: I stopped. I got a flat tire and I stopped
7:12
Speaker 1: and somebody stopped to help me. And when I turned
7:16
Speaker 1: my back, they tried to shoot me. Oh okay, will
7:20
Speaker 1: you shot? Yeah? But I mean I'm okay you shot? Where?
7:25
Speaker 1: Where were you shot at? Huh? Did they actually shoot you?
7:31
Speaker 1: They tried to shoot you? They shot me? But okay?
7:35
Speaker 1: Where you need the ms? Uh? Well? I mean yes,
7:39
Speaker 1: I can't drive, okay, seeing and I'm bleeding a lot.
7:45
Speaker 1: Where part of your body I'm not sure somewhere on
7:49
Speaker 1: my head, your head. Somebody just stopped from me man
7:53
Speaker 1: um for nine one one. Did you hear that? Okay,
7:59
Speaker 1: hold on, Scott Morgan and feel free to jump in
8:01
Speaker 1: and interrupt doctor Michelle Dupre. Okay because doctor Dupre joining
8:06
Speaker 1: me from South Carolina Forensic Pathologists, medical examiner, author of
8:11
Speaker 1: Homicide Investigation Field Guide. Really, this is the guy standing
8:17
Speaker 1: by the side of the road waving his arms can
8:19
Speaker 1: call nine one one and go hello. I was changing
8:23
Speaker 1: my tire and someone offered to help me and then
8:26
Speaker 1: they shot me from behind. He is no more has
8:29
Speaker 1: a brain injury than the man in the moon. He's fine.
8:34
Speaker 1: And now he's saying, this is the cousin who shot
8:38
Speaker 1: him and he lied about it. I mean, maybe I
8:42
Speaker 1: have a hearing problem, but Jackie Sydney, did you hear
8:45
Speaker 1: him say my cousin just shot me in the head.
8:47
Speaker 1: I didn't hear that. Did anybody? Okay, they're not looking,
8:50
Speaker 1: but I think that they in their heart they mean
8:52
Speaker 1: to say no, they didn't hear that. What about it? Dupris,
8:56
Speaker 1: this is crazy. When we heard that, nobody believed it,
8:59
Speaker 1: not even in the Again, did you hear the nine
9:01
Speaker 1: one one dispatch doctor d Pree. She's like, well, what
9:06
Speaker 1: she said, can you drive? You sound fine? Basically what
9:10
Speaker 1: she was saying. I mean, she does this really and
9:13
Speaker 1: to stop and half a flat tire and him change it.
9:16
Speaker 1: He has a car that you can drive for fifty
9:18
Speaker 1: miles on a flat tire. This is crazy, Okay, Joe
9:22
Speaker 1: Scott jump in because that is not a brain injury.
9:24
Speaker 1: And now he's saying the cousin that shot him murdered
9:29
Speaker 1: Maggie and Paul. He's obviously lying. Yeah, I think that
9:34
Speaker 1: he is. Because the story just keeps flip flopping, and
9:36
Speaker 1: that's one of the things that slid the South The
9:39
Speaker 1: South Carolina Law Enforcement Agency is looking at in this
9:42
Speaker 1: because anytime suspect begins to change their story over and
9:46
Speaker 1: over and look, it's not just about this guy this
9:49
Speaker 1: one time, it's about everything else going back in the
9:52
Speaker 1: past relative to this case that just doesn't match up.
9:56
Speaker 1: And so that's a problem and that goes to his
9:59
Speaker 1: I don't know your attorney us, his veracity, I guess,
10:03
Speaker 1: as as a potential of victim in this case. Time
10:19
Speaker 1: stories with Nancy Grace with me Jessica Garth, Chief of
10:26
Speaker 1: the Special Victims and Family Violence Unit at Prince George County, Maryland. Jessica,
10:32
Speaker 1: I want you to listen to I just gotta play
10:34
Speaker 1: one more and I'm hoping I'm not getting a really
10:37
Speaker 1: clear description, but that's okay. I'm hoping this is Alex
10:41
Speaker 1: Marnock talking somewhere on nine one one. Go ahead, Well,
10:44
Speaker 1: let me get my deputies in the area to see
10:46
Speaker 1: what's going on. Can you give me a description of
10:47
Speaker 1: that meal. Um, I'm probably forties, Okay, it's not very large,
10:56
Speaker 1: but he's kind of heavy, say a white hair, it's
11:00
Speaker 1: a black some kind of like a smaller Kia Suv
11:05
Speaker 1: or some of them. Yeah, didn't stop where he's at.
11:12
Speaker 1: The suv is right where he's at. As well, you
11:15
Speaker 1: get pulled over on the side of the road. There's
11:17
Speaker 1: no damage to the suva. Tum it was okay, all right, Well,
11:24
Speaker 1: let me get my deputy, okay, Jessica Garth fellow lawyer.
11:29
Speaker 1: You know, the prosecutors are just laughing into their fists
11:33
Speaker 1: because there's nothing better than the defendant charged with double
11:37
Speaker 1: murder and so much more pointing to a third party
11:43
Speaker 1: and actually naming them. Now, it's one thing if you say, well,
11:47
Speaker 1: this guy looked like this, you know, heavy set, white
11:51
Speaker 1: male in his forties driving a Kia. But then when
11:55
Speaker 1: you actually say it was my cousin. I just love
11:59
Speaker 1: that because then and you can get the cousins alibi
12:02
Speaker 1: and show the defendant is out right lying through his teeth.
12:06
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I couldn't agree more, Nancy. I mean, it's
12:08
Speaker 1: it's great when when defendants talk, because every time they
12:11
Speaker 1: give an inconsistent story is something that we can use
12:14
Speaker 1: in court. Um. And I agree with you one hundred percent.
12:17
Speaker 1: You know, he's basically locking himself into you know, this
12:20
Speaker 1: other theory about his cousin, um, you know, being the
12:23
Speaker 1: killer in this case. So you know, if this goes
12:25
Speaker 1: to trial and he tries to put forth any other
12:27
Speaker 1: theory and he's basically backed himself into a corner, you know,
12:30
Speaker 1: he's he's locked into this um. And I assume you know,
12:33
Speaker 1: the state in this case is going to look into
12:34
Speaker 1: alibi's for his cousin, and I'm sure they're just, you
12:38
Speaker 1: know it, thrilled to have an idea of what the
12:40
Speaker 1: defense is theory is going to be. I mean, in
12:42
Speaker 1: this case, you hear a lot about you know, prosecution
12:45
Speaker 1: by surprise and gotcha prosecution. But you know, the prosecution
12:49
Speaker 1: has to turn over discovery to the defense. But it's
12:52
Speaker 1: actually the defense and in many cases who doesn't have
12:55
Speaker 1: to put forward their theory to the state, to the prosecution. Um,
12:58
Speaker 1: they don't actually have to put on a defense at all.
12:59
Speaker 1: You know, they can just sit there and make the
13:00
Speaker 1: state prove their case. So when you have a defendant
13:04
Speaker 1: in his council who's willing to give this much information
13:06
Speaker 1: about what they're going to do, it's the gift, truly,
13:09
Speaker 1: it is. You know, you're right. What a lot of
13:10
Speaker 1: people don't understand, Jessicine Garth is exactly what you just said.
13:14
Speaker 1: Under the rules of evidence that have been interpreted through
13:19
Speaker 1: our constitution, the state is basically required to hand over
13:25
Speaker 1: its entire file to the defense. You've got to tell
13:28
Speaker 1: them every witness how to reach the Witnis, the address,
13:31
Speaker 1: the phone number of you've got it. You've got to
13:33
Speaker 1: give them all of your scientific evidence, which is the
13:36
Speaker 1: medical examiner, forensics, ballistics, everything. You have to give them
13:42
Speaker 1: all of your scientific reports, what the ballistics said, what
13:45
Speaker 1: the autopsy said, what the fiber evidence said, what the
13:48
Speaker 1: blood evidence said, including addresses and phone numbers for those experts.
13:53
Speaker 1: In many jurisdictions, the defense doesn't have to hand over
13:57
Speaker 1: anything at all to the state. They are supposed to
14:04
Speaker 1: hand over scientific reports and witnesses so the state can
14:08
Speaker 1: read them and prepare a rebuttal at trial for trial.
14:13
Speaker 1: That said, that's just about it. You never have a
14:17
Speaker 1: defendant give you their whole theory to the defense beforehand.
14:23
Speaker 1: It's like you're playing checkers or chess and you tell
14:27
Speaker 1: the other side, well, the first thing I'm gonna do
14:29
Speaker 1: is blah blah blah, then the next thing is blah,
14:33
Speaker 1: and then I'll checkmate. No, that is what is happening
14:39
Speaker 1: right here at giving the state a chance to torpedo
14:44
Speaker 1: the defense before they ever have opening statements. Now, speaking
14:48
Speaker 1: of what Jessica Garth just said, joining us out of
14:52
Speaker 1: Prince George's county, take a listen to our cut one
14:54
Speaker 1: o two our friends at WI. Stif told investigators he
14:59
Speaker 1: had an alibi and night of the crime with three
15:01
Speaker 1: witnesses at his home, and that he heard that Paul
15:03
Speaker 1: Murdoch had caught Maggie Murdoch, his mother, with a groundskeeper
15:07
Speaker 1: she had a reported relationship with, and he might be
15:10
Speaker 1: to blame for the murders as well as that groundskeeper.
15:14
Speaker 1: The defense team also writes that the state has a
15:17
Speaker 1: weak circumstantial case at this time, basing it the entirety
15:20
Speaker 1: of it on a Murdock's location at the crime scene
15:23
Speaker 1: within the hour of their deaths and a small amount
15:25
Speaker 1: of Maggie's blood on a shirt when on which they
15:28
Speaker 1: claimed transferred when he quote frantically attended his wife's bloody corpse. No,
15:34
Speaker 1: absolutely not, Jess Gott Morgan. The blood on Alex Murdoch's
15:39
Speaker 1: clothing is not a transfer mark. That. For instance, if
15:44
Speaker 1: I stabbed Jackie again and then I go to her
15:49
Speaker 1: and she reaches out and we get a transfer from
15:52
Speaker 1: blood from her to me, a transfer like I hug
15:56
Speaker 1: her and I get her blood on my Shirt's a transfer.
16:01
Speaker 1: That's very different from a high velocity impact spatter. It's
16:06
Speaker 1: like what's you're used to it. It's like flipping a
16:09
Speaker 1: lot on and off. What's the difference in a high
16:12
Speaker 1: velocity impact spat. J Scott Morgan, Yeah, well we measure.
16:16
Speaker 1: We measured this in velocity, so we've got low, medium,
16:21
Speaker 1: and high, and with high that generally in most cases
16:25
Speaker 1: originates from a firearm. That means it's going to blow
16:28
Speaker 1: back onto the individual if they're standing over. I tell people,
16:32
Speaker 1: take an air salt can of hair spray, go to
16:35
Speaker 1: your mirror and just tap it one time in that
16:38
Speaker 1: fine little histamine spray that comes out and it hears
16:40
Speaker 1: that glass. That gives you an example of what high
16:43
Speaker 1: velocity looks like. It's very tiny. It's not a big
16:46
Speaker 1: smear or a swipe or a wipe or a transfer. Yes,
16:50
Speaker 1: it is not a drop. Trust here's a good example.
16:52
Speaker 1: Remember when Travis Alexander was stabbed dead about thirty times
16:56
Speaker 1: by Jodi Arius For she shot him in the head. Yes,
16:59
Speaker 1: he walked managed to somehow, I guess after the first shot,
17:03
Speaker 1: walked to his mirror in his bathroom and looked at
17:07
Speaker 1: himself dying and blood drop we think, from his nose
17:12
Speaker 1: onto the bathroom countertop where the sink is right. And
17:17
Speaker 1: that one drop is like a little round drop as
17:22
Speaker 1: opposed to a high velocity spray. That's what we're talking about. So,
17:30
Speaker 1: Anne Emerson, what do you make of Alex murdog who
17:35
Speaker 1: has been stealing millions of dollars? I think we counted
17:38
Speaker 1: up five dead bodies connected to him or his family
17:42
Speaker 1: stealing millions and millions of dollars. I don't know what
17:45
Speaker 1: these judges and the law firm was doing, just sitting
17:49
Speaker 1: with their thumb up their rear end during all of
17:51
Speaker 1: this theft from clients. But what do you make now
17:55
Speaker 1: of him claiming changing a story from an unknown assailant
17:59
Speaker 1: to his cousin did it well? He absolutely things started
18:03
Speaker 1: circling him pretty quickly as soon as they realized that
18:06
Speaker 1: that that Mercedes could have driven another fifty miles. I
18:09
Speaker 1: think that he already knew he was in trouble then,
18:11
Speaker 1: and then I think cousin Eddie, with the story that
18:15
Speaker 1: he came out with, I mean, he as soon as
18:18
Speaker 1: as soon as Alec Murdoch starts going after him and
18:22
Speaker 1: his lawyers start start looking at Eddie Smith as the
18:25
Speaker 1: person Eddie's mislike hold on. And he tells me in
18:28
Speaker 1: an interview, I actually went there because he called me okay, white,
18:33
Speaker 1: white white. Ann Emerson guys An Amerson, senior investigative reporter
18:38
Speaker 1: that we civ ABC News four, and she's got this
18:41
Speaker 1: incredible podcast, I've got Unsolved South Carolina, the murdog murders,
18:46
Speaker 1: money and mystery is that the name of it? Anne?
18:49
Speaker 1: It is okay, which is an incredible podcast. Guys, she
18:54
Speaker 1: actually speaks to the cousin murdog is blaming is they
19:00
Speaker 1: is Curtis Eddie Smith. Okay, that's sad. I just want
19:04
Speaker 1: everybody to know what we're talking about here. Tell me
19:06
Speaker 1: what happened and don't leave anything out. Well, what happens
19:10
Speaker 1: is when we sit down and talk to Eddie Smith.
19:12
Speaker 1: It's like a bottom months after this has all come
19:15
Speaker 1: out that now Eddie's being targeted as you know that
19:20
Speaker 1: he had gone into this assisted suicide attempts. When Eddie
19:23
Speaker 1: gets to the place, what he tells us is that
19:26
Speaker 1: he sees a desperate man that wants to kill himself,
19:29
Speaker 1: and he goes up to him. He grabs a gun.
19:31
Speaker 1: There's a little bit of a shuffle back and forth
19:35
Speaker 1: and saves him from getting shot, but the gun goes off.
19:40
Speaker 1: Eddie says that he leaves because Alex says, I'm fine,
19:44
Speaker 1: I'm fine, but he takes the gun with him and
19:47
Speaker 1: he takes off. He's like, under no circumstances was I
19:50
Speaker 1: there to actually go and help him kill himself. Okay,
19:56
Speaker 1: so wait a minute, Anne, you do know I'm not
20:00
Speaker 1: swallowing this hook line and sinker. So I'm supposed to
20:03
Speaker 1: believe that out of the blue, the cousin shows up
20:07
Speaker 1: on the road where Alex Murdock happens to be on
20:11
Speaker 1: this rural road, and then they had this struggle. Okay, okay,
20:16
Speaker 1: So he calls him, says, I need you here. Okay,
20:20
Speaker 1: go ahead. I'm skeptical, but go ahead. Well, I mean,
20:24
Speaker 1: I think everybody is. And it's incredibly difficult to nail
20:27
Speaker 1: down who's telling the truth because there's just so many
20:29
Speaker 1: layers of lives that we've been told in this story already.
20:33
Speaker 1: But you know what we learned from Eddie in that interview,
20:37
Speaker 1: what he shared with me, which doesn't I mean, it
20:41
Speaker 1: makes a lot of sense with all of the allegations
20:44
Speaker 1: right now, that he saw Alex Murdoch like a brother.
20:49
Speaker 1: He was like a brother, he said, he was like
20:51
Speaker 1: a brother to him, and he felt the trade by
20:54
Speaker 1: the and we were just at the we were not
20:57
Speaker 1: even at where we're at today, where he's saying his
20:59
Speaker 1: lawyer jurnalism, you know, making these allegations that Eddie Smith
21:04
Speaker 1: was the one that killed Maggie and Paul. We were
21:06
Speaker 1: just at the assistant suicide attempt. But then then Eddie
21:11
Speaker 1: Smith's story. Of course, we know he's behind bars right
21:15
Speaker 1: now for a storing of alleged crimes that he was
21:20
Speaker 1: involved with Alex Murdoch over almost what is it, almost
21:25
Speaker 1: a decade? Millions and millions of dollars for those of
21:30
Speaker 1: you just joining us, South Carolina legal air multi millionaire
21:34
Speaker 1: Alex Murdoch has now come out with it. He names
21:38
Speaker 1: the person that he says is the quote real killer
21:43
Speaker 1: of wife Maggie and son Paul, the hitman, and the
21:47
Speaker 1: hitman is his own cousin. He also climbs this cousin,
21:52
Speaker 1: Curtis Smith, is the one who shot him Murdock as well.
21:58
Speaker 1: Now the cousin, Curtis Eddie Smith, claims to have an alibi.
22:03
Speaker 1: What do we know of the alibi Ann Emerson? Well,
22:07
Speaker 1: according to Eddie Smith, he worked at home with buddies.
22:11
Speaker 1: And the issue is that they're at right now between
22:15
Speaker 1: the defense and the prosecutors. From what I can tell,
22:18
Speaker 1: we're still waiting to hear what the AG's got to
22:20
Speaker 1: say about this, But what we're hearing is that Eddie
22:25
Speaker 1: said that he was that his girlfriend Donna Easton can
22:29
Speaker 1: testify that he was where he was, that he was
22:33
Speaker 1: at home. He's got a couple of buddies. But the
22:35
Speaker 1: concern from the defense attorneys is that they waited so
22:39
Speaker 1: long to reach out to these friends that were supposed
22:42
Speaker 1: to be at the home with Eddie Smith, that there
22:45
Speaker 1: would have been time for Eddie to get to them
22:48
Speaker 1: to say something. Okay, hold on, hold on. The defense
22:51
Speaker 1: claims who waited so long to reach out Sled? Well wait,
22:55
Speaker 1: why should Sled? Sled? Thanks, They've got their man, and
22:58
Speaker 1: that's Alec Murdoch. If anybody should reach out to defense witnesses,
23:05
Speaker 1: it would be the defense. Anyway. Anybody can reach out.
23:10
Speaker 1: Anybody can make that phone call. Anybody can show up
23:12
Speaker 1: with a subpoena if you're an officer of the court.
23:14
Speaker 1: So don't throw that on the state that they did
23:17
Speaker 1: something wrong. Bottom line, you know what, they can all
23:21
Speaker 1: claim they were here, there or yonder. All they have
23:25
Speaker 1: to do is get their cell phone records and ping
23:29
Speaker 1: out where these people were, because guess what cell phone
23:34
Speaker 1: records show Alex Murdog was at the scene of the
23:37
Speaker 1: murder at the time of the murder. Guys in a
23:43
Speaker 1: Bobshell breakthrough in the Alex Murdog case. Murdog now facing
23:48
Speaker 1: trial for the murder of his wife, Maggie and his
23:51
Speaker 1: son Paul. We're hearing more about what the cousin friend,
23:57
Speaker 1: Curtis Smith had to say. He comes up with this
24:00
Speaker 1: crazy theory that Maggie is having an affair with a groundskeeper.
24:06
Speaker 1: Let's play that cut one, O two, one more time.
24:09
Speaker 1: Jackie Smith told investigators he had an alibi the night
24:12
Speaker 1: of the crime with three witnesses at his home, and
24:14
Speaker 1: that he heard that Paul Murdoch had caught Maggie Murdoch,
24:17
Speaker 1: his mother, with a groundskeeper she had a reported relationship with,
24:21
Speaker 1: and he might be to blame for the murders as
24:24
Speaker 1: well as that groundskeeper. The defense team also writes that
24:28
Speaker 1: the state has a weak circumstantial case at this time,
24:31
Speaker 1: basing the entirety of it on a Murdock's location at
24:34
Speaker 1: the crime scene within the hour of their deaths and
24:36
Speaker 1: a small amount of Maggie's blood on a shirt when
24:39
Speaker 1: on which they claimed transferred when he quote frantically attended
24:43
Speaker 1: his wife's bloody corpse. Jesscott Morgan, I don't know that
24:46
Speaker 1: that's exactly how I would describe the cell phone data
24:51
Speaker 1: that places Alex Mardock at the same of the murdyrs. No, No,
24:56
Speaker 1: I certainly wouldn't. I think that it's it's rock solid
25:00
Speaker 1: to tell the truth. You know, when it's painting and
25:01
Speaker 1: you can triangulate the location of an individual, it's pretty
25:06
Speaker 1: damning evidence as far as I'm concerned. These phones that
25:10
Speaker 1: we carry around with us everywhere nowaday like a mill
25:13
Speaker 1: sewn around our neck. It track us everywhere we go.
25:16
Speaker 1: You know, it gives us a position relative to where
25:19
Speaker 1: we are on a daily basis. And also if the
25:22
Speaker 1: cousin was there, where's his cell phone data as well.
25:25
Speaker 1: So long story short, we don't have to take his
25:27
Speaker 1: word for it because you know, either him the cousin,
25:32
Speaker 1: or he the cousin or one of the three alibi
25:35
Speaker 1: witnesses are going to have their cell phones and they're
25:38
Speaker 1: going to shay where they were at the time of
25:40
Speaker 1: the murder. Time stories with Nancy Grace to Chris Buyers
26:01
Speaker 1: joining us former police chief JOHNS Creek twenty five years
26:06
Speaker 1: on the force, now private an investigator and polygrapher. You
26:09
Speaker 1: can find him at Chris Buyer's Investigations and Polygraphy. Chris,
26:13
Speaker 1: take a listen to our Code one O four Attorneys
26:15
Speaker 1: Dick Harpool and Jim Griffin have filed a motion seeking
26:18
Speaker 1: evidence which could indicate a potential co conspirator in this crime,
26:22
Speaker 1: particularly Curtis Eddie Smith. According to the motion and according
26:27
Speaker 1: to law enforcement sources who have independently verified this information
26:30
Speaker 1: to fitz News, Smith was given a polygraph examination in
26:34
Speaker 1: connection with this investigation, specifically asked whether or not he
26:38
Speaker 1: had anything to do with the murders of Maggie Murdock
26:41
Speaker 1: and Pal Murdock, which again Alan Murdock is facing two
26:45
Speaker 1: murder charges in connection with their desks. According to my sources, yes,
26:49
Speaker 1: Smith was administered a polygraph. Yes, Smith did fail that polygraph,
26:53
Speaker 1: and one of my sources in law enforcement said he
26:56
Speaker 1: failed to quote badly end quote that was Will Folks
27:00
Speaker 1: on her fit News. Okay, Chris Buyers, Yeah, he probably did.
27:04
Speaker 1: Pat He probably did fill a polygraph. I'm talking about
27:06
Speaker 1: the cousin. But who knows what he was really lying about.
27:11
Speaker 1: He could have been lying about being high on dope.
27:14
Speaker 1: He could have been lying about selling meth or whatever
27:18
Speaker 1: it was he had. He could have been lying about
27:21
Speaker 1: having an affair with somebody. He could have been lying
27:24
Speaker 1: about anything. That's like me with dragging Sydney and strapping
27:30
Speaker 1: up to a polygraph, and I say, did you commit
27:33
Speaker 1: the murderer, amongst other questions, and she says no, and
27:37
Speaker 1: she fails the polygraph. Well, she may have filled a polygraph,
27:42
Speaker 1: because I also asked her, did you get drunk as
27:45
Speaker 1: a skunk this weekend? And she said no. That could
27:49
Speaker 1: have been why she filled the polygraph. I don't know
27:51
Speaker 1: why she filled the polygraph, but I do know I
27:55
Speaker 1: trust those pings of the cell phones of Curtis Edward
27:59
Speaker 1: Smith and has three friends the night of the martyrs,
28:03
Speaker 1: and the pings on Murdog's phone show him there at
28:07
Speaker 1: the scene of the double martyr of his wife and
28:11
Speaker 1: his son. And he has high velocity human matter blood
28:18
Speaker 1: on his clothes. Think you only get if you're thirty
28:21
Speaker 1: six inches or less from the shooting. That's what I know.
28:28
Speaker 1: So tell me about him, the new suspect. I'll just
28:33
Speaker 1: call him that. Kurts said, we're spent the cousin. Tell
28:35
Speaker 1: me about him failing his poll. Well, first of all,
28:38
Speaker 1: the picture that the defense has put out is the
28:41
Speaker 1: proof of him failing. The polygraph shows absolutely nothing. You
28:45
Speaker 1: would have to see the polygraph report that the captain
28:48
Speaker 1: from SLED did, and it's all about polygraph is all
28:51
Speaker 1: about that pretest interview and getting the questions exactly right
28:55
Speaker 1: and making sure that the person that you are about
28:58
Speaker 1: to conduct the test on understand the questions properly. But
29:02
Speaker 1: I've seen nothing in what the defense is put out
29:05
Speaker 1: to prove that. To show that again, really have to
29:10
Speaker 1: see the polygraph reports that the captain did. But that
29:12
Speaker 1: picture is absolutely garbage. You know, not everybody is saying
29:17
Speaker 1: the picture Chris Buyers explain. So they've got an exploded
29:21
Speaker 1: picture of the polygraph examiner and the polygraph going on,
29:25
Speaker 1: and they're showing just one huge what they're calling a response.
29:30
Speaker 1: So you've got the line going across horizontal and they've
29:33
Speaker 1: got this vertical line that they're claiming is a response.
29:37
Speaker 1: But in looking at it, first of all, there's the
29:41
Speaker 1: lines that are running vertical is showing when the examiner's
29:44
Speaker 1: asking a question, and the response that they're talking about
29:47
Speaker 1: is coming before the question bars even there, and it's
29:50
Speaker 1: a it's a they're saying it's a crazy response, and
29:53
Speaker 1: it is a crazy response, and that normally means it's
29:56
Speaker 1: some type of interference like that they moved or something else.
30:00
Speaker 1: It's your responses. You have to look at the reason
30:03
Speaker 1: you do like two or three different charts. You have
30:05
Speaker 1: to compare each of the charts and make sure that
30:07
Speaker 1: they're all similar and one is not just huge and
30:12
Speaker 1: doesn't look like the rest of them. And you can
30:14
Speaker 1: even see on this chart, I'm assuming this line that
30:17
Speaker 1: they're showing is the electrodermal activity plates, and right underneath
30:22
Speaker 1: it is the heart rate, And you've got the eeda
30:24
Speaker 1: response going up in the heart rate going down. They
30:27
Speaker 1: should be going in the same direction together. So this
30:31
Speaker 1: picture means absolutely nothing. It's all about what the captain
30:35
Speaker 1: put in his report and which questions that he hit on.
30:39
Speaker 1: You know, one of the one of the newscasts that
30:41
Speaker 1: you've played earlier said that he failed at three times.
30:44
Speaker 1: There's no such thing. There's either deception indicated or no
30:47
Speaker 1: deception indicated. That's the only way that captain would have
30:49
Speaker 1: scored the chart. So what do you make of what
30:51
Speaker 1: the defense is claiming about this poly I would really
30:54
Speaker 1: have to know exactly how I mean the questions that
30:57
Speaker 1: they're showing in the news report that I have. Did
31:00
Speaker 1: you shoot either of those people at the property on
31:02
Speaker 1: Mozelle road, and were you present with either the people
31:05
Speaker 1: shot at the property on Moselle Road. That is a
31:08
Speaker 1: direct question, and then there's the evidence connecting question. He
31:13
Speaker 1: could have failed it because he maybe knew or suspected anything,
31:19
Speaker 1: he had any type of knowledge. And it's all about
31:22
Speaker 1: reading that report and seeing how the investigator did the pretest,
31:27
Speaker 1: how he got the physiological responses, how he really set
31:31
Speaker 1: that question set. I'm not even sure what type if
31:34
Speaker 1: he did, a probable lie or a directed lie. It's
31:38
Speaker 1: all about You've got to see at all. You know,
31:40
Speaker 1: you're an expert in this. Everybody else, including myself, is not.
31:45
Speaker 1: But I do know this. Number one, Polygraphs are not
31:48
Speaker 1: allowed in a criminal case unless both parties stipulate before
31:53
Speaker 1: the polygraph that it will come into evidence. Number one.
31:57
Speaker 1: Number two. Whenever I would be presenting with a poly
32:00
Speaker 1: graph by a defense attorney going my guy didn't do it.
32:02
Speaker 1: Look you past polygraph, I'm like, okay, soaken, look at it.
32:06
Speaker 1: Who gave the polygraph? Is that somebody you hired or
32:10
Speaker 1: is it an independent polygrapher, is someone of the state
32:13
Speaker 1: uses or is it your cousin the polygrapher down the street. Also,
32:18
Speaker 1: I want to see the questions, which question do I
32:23
Speaker 1: see disturbance? That's what I call it when you get
32:26
Speaker 1: a differently. Think of those machines beside your bed at
32:30
Speaker 1: the hospital and they show your heart beat, and they
32:33
Speaker 1: show your blood pressure and your breathing, and suddenly one
32:36
Speaker 1: of those squiggly lines starts going haywire. That's what I'm
32:39
Speaker 1: looking for on a polygraph. And when you're talking about
32:43
Speaker 1: the questions, the question would have to be something like,
32:47
Speaker 1: were you at the scene of the crime when Maggie
32:51
Speaker 1: Murdog was shot? Did you pull the trigger and kill
32:57
Speaker 1: Maggie Murdog? Not? Were you involved? Because as you said,
33:01
Speaker 1: Chris Buyers involvement could be he told me about it.
33:04
Speaker 1: After I covered up for him, I lied about it.
33:08
Speaker 1: You know, it could be any sort of involvement. And
33:11
Speaker 1: when you say no, then you get a bad polygraph.
33:16
Speaker 1: So you want to see the questions and the lead
33:19
Speaker 1: up to the questions, right, It's all about that pretest interview.
33:24
Speaker 1: I've always said polygraph is as good or bad as
33:27
Speaker 1: the examiner, and I will say that the sled investigators
33:31
Speaker 1: and examiners I've I've been to conferences trained with those
33:34
Speaker 1: guys and they're excelling at what they do. But yeah,
33:37
Speaker 1: it's all about the questions. It's just like you said
33:39
Speaker 1: that you you can't even reference did you kill someone
33:42
Speaker 1: because you have to get into their mind and they
33:45
Speaker 1: can think, well, hey, I shot them four times, but
33:47
Speaker 1: I don't know if they were dead or not. You're right.
33:49
Speaker 1: Your requestions have to be did you hold the gun
33:52
Speaker 1: that's shot? I mean that's why those are the questions
33:56
Speaker 1: are so important, and you can just miss it by
33:59
Speaker 1: just a little bit and give them any type of
34:01
Speaker 1: excuse in their mind, and they're gonna that's what's gonna
34:04
Speaker 1: hit on that question. They're gonna pass. Ye. You're right.
34:07
Speaker 1: It's all about the question, the phraseology, and the lead up,
34:11
Speaker 1: which leads me to doctor Sherry Schwartz. Hey, anybody on
34:16
Speaker 1: the panel, if you suddenly have a thought about what
34:18
Speaker 1: we're talking about, for Pete's sake, jump in. I mean,
34:22
Speaker 1: you are the brain trust. Doctor Sherry Schwartz is joining
34:25
Speaker 1: US forensic psychologist, specializing and capital cases like this. She's
34:30
Speaker 1: at panther mitigation dot com. She wrote Criminal Behavior and
34:36
Speaker 1: she also wrote Where Law and Psychology Intersect Issues in
34:41
Speaker 1: Legal Psychology and Boy do we need you, doctor Sherry Schwartz,
34:45
Speaker 1: Doctor Sherry, how is it now? My husband will say
34:49
Speaker 1: this is his excuse. A rat on a sinking ship
34:54
Speaker 1: will jump onto anything, They'll grab a hold of anything,
34:58
Speaker 1: and you'll all go down. I was about to say,
35:01
Speaker 1: what do people tell fantastical lies to get out of trouble?
35:07
Speaker 1: And it's obviously a lie. And I'm not saying Curtis
35:12
Speaker 1: Eddie Smith is an angel because he ain't. He is
35:16
Speaker 1: far from it. But is Murdoch's so arrogant that he
35:22
Speaker 1: thinks sled won't check out his cousin's alibi for the
35:26
Speaker 1: time of the shootings? Well, it's I never met Alex Murdock,
35:30
Speaker 1: so I don't know for sure. That's good for you,
35:33
Speaker 1: Good on you. It certainly seems like the evidence points
35:38
Speaker 1: toward this idea that he's untouchable because the Murdoch's family
35:44
Speaker 1: has really been untouchable in many ways through for I
35:48
Speaker 1: think a hundred years ish or something when the law
35:51
Speaker 1: firm was originally established, so they're quite powerful in that area.
35:56
Speaker 1: And you're right, Eddie Smith is no angel. Wait a minute,
36:00
Speaker 1: Donor Sherry Schwartz, That's what I would always argue to juries. Yeah,
36:04
Speaker 1: this witness is no angel. But who do you think
36:07
Speaker 1: the defendant's hanging around with? Nuns and phrases and virgins?
36:11
Speaker 1: H w L n Oh, he's sang a L S
36:14
Speaker 1: guy right here. So that's the witness. Get up there
36:17
Speaker 1: and start testifying. Bottom line, I don't expect him to
36:19
Speaker 1: be an angel, right, right? So what about Murdoch and
36:23
Speaker 1: his story? Does he think we're not going to check
36:25
Speaker 1: it out? He probably doesn't really think that far ahead
36:29
Speaker 1: because really, in his life, he's never really had to
36:33
Speaker 1: justify any of his actions. Right, I'm imagining that the
36:38
Speaker 1: Murdoch name carries a lot of power, and so it's
36:43
Speaker 1: just a matter of Murdoch said it, so it must
36:46
Speaker 1: be true. And let's just go on about our day.
36:48
Speaker 1: And to answer your question about why do people try
36:50
Speaker 1: to get out of trouble, well, I mean, he's got
36:54
Speaker 1: a lot to lose, especially in this case, because he's
36:57
Speaker 1: looking at possibly the death penalty and if not, decades
37:01
Speaker 1: in prison. Well, and also, go ahead, and I was
37:03
Speaker 1: going to ask you about that cell phone video that's
37:06
Speaker 1: taken at the time of the shooting, but we'll circle
37:08
Speaker 1: back jump in. Oh, okay, Now I'm just gonna say,
37:11
Speaker 1: like once again, like just talking about the psychology of
37:14
Speaker 1: this case. I mean, Eddie Smith very much said that
37:18
Speaker 1: this that Alec Murdoch was incredibly close to him, that
37:23
Speaker 1: he felt an allegiance to him, that he would do
37:25
Speaker 1: anything for him. He basically said this in the interview
37:28
Speaker 1: with me. So this is a person who obviously looked
37:32
Speaker 1: to Alec as someone who was very close to And
37:36
Speaker 1: I don't think you can ignore when somebody tells you something,
37:39
Speaker 1: you have to leave them to that degree when they're
37:43
Speaker 1: just talking about somebody. So if that's the case, then
37:46
Speaker 1: you have somebody who already has already shown an enormous
37:50
Speaker 1: amount of allegiance in these allegations of different of different
37:55
Speaker 1: crimes that the state's going after. Cardis Eddie Smith's for
38:00
Speaker 1: everything from from his involvement in drug feels allegedly to
38:05
Speaker 1: his involvement in money laundering for Alec Murdock. So there's that.
38:11
Speaker 1: But now one thing that I think is really interesting
38:13
Speaker 1: here is that they keep on the sense attorneys for
38:18
Speaker 1: Alec Murdock keep on going back to what they don't
38:21
Speaker 1: feel like they're getting. They feel like they've keyed on
38:25
Speaker 1: Alec the whole time. That's something that they really talked
38:28
Speaker 1: about and harped on in in this motion to compel.
38:32
Speaker 1: They said that SLED didn't properly investigate other possible suspects
38:37
Speaker 1: because they want to use Ye Smith against Alec Murdock
38:40
Speaker 1: and they feel like that. To me, that was a
38:43
Speaker 1: really interesting part of this motion to compel is that
38:46
Speaker 1: they want more DNA and gunshot residue analysis of Maggie
38:51
Speaker 1: and Paul's clothes, and if that analysis doesn't exist, is
38:56
Speaker 1: as a defense argument that fled it in properly investigating
39:02
Speaker 1: other subjects that they were always looking at Alic. So
39:04
Speaker 1: to me, that was an instance I think somebody else
39:08
Speaker 1: is jumping in go ahead, but this is um doc.
39:10
Speaker 1: It's also very interesting to write. At the time of
39:13
Speaker 1: the two murders, the law enforcement came out almost immediately
39:17
Speaker 1: and said that the community didn't have anything to worry about.
39:21
Speaker 1: And so to me, absolutely that says that you know,
39:25
Speaker 1: they have an idea of what's going on anyway. I mean,
39:27
Speaker 1: certainly they have to investigate, but that was I think
39:30
Speaker 1: very unusual. They knew from from the onset that this
39:33
Speaker 1: was a targeted attack. You're right, and Emerson, what can
39:37
Speaker 1: you tell me about cell phone video taken just before
39:40
Speaker 1: the shooting. This is a huge revelation that we were
39:43
Speaker 1: we were hearing about a few months ago. And another
39:47
Speaker 1: twist there was cell phone video that was on Paul's phone.
39:50
Speaker 1: Supposedly he was taking some videos of a dog that
39:54
Speaker 1: he was kicking at the kennels and he was there,
39:58
Speaker 1: and they're very too, very different accounts of what that
40:02
Speaker 1: video shows as far as the mood and the feeling
40:07
Speaker 1: behind the people that were in that video. You're supposed
40:09
Speaker 1: to be able to see and hear. You're you're able
40:15
Speaker 1: to hear Alec and Maggie and Paul talking from what
40:17
Speaker 1: I understand, and you know that what the defense argues
40:21
Speaker 1: is that that was not an angry conversation. Who cares.
40:24
Speaker 1: It places him, Alex Murdock at the crime scene, at
40:30
Speaker 1: the double murder, with the two victims, just the three
40:33
Speaker 1: of them, at the time of the murders. That's the significance.
40:39
Speaker 1: I don't care if they were arguing or not arguing.
40:42
Speaker 1: He's there at the same and that's and that's what
40:44
Speaker 1: they've got to get to. That's what they've got to
40:46
Speaker 1: get to, is exactly when those murders occurred and whether
40:49
Speaker 1: or not that video actually is within that timeframe. That
40:55
Speaker 1: is what the defense is going to try and poke
40:58
Speaker 1: holes into saying that that was not that that doesn't
41:01
Speaker 1: show the exact time. But you're right, I mean, that's
41:04
Speaker 1: what they're going to keep on arguing. Well, I guess
41:06
Speaker 1: now we know who really did it. According to Alex Murdock,
41:10
Speaker 1: sitting in jail on double murder and so much more,
41:12
Speaker 1: it was his cousin. We wait as justice unfolds Nancy
41:17
Speaker 1: Grace crime story, signing off goodbye for him