Latest / Repcolite Home Improvement Show / The Importance of Skilled Trades: A Conversation with Drew Anderson

Transcript

The Importance of Skilled Trades: A Conversation with Drew Anderson · Repcolite Home Improvement Show

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Well, good morning, everybody, Happy Saturday. You're listening to the
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Repcolite home improvement show sponsored by Benjamin Moore, And this
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: week I've got kind of a special episode planned. You know,
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: most of the time, most weeks, we cover a relatively
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: wide variety of different topics. But this week I'm playing
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: just a long conversation that I had with Drew Anderson
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: from Harmel Academy of the Trades in Grand Rapids. Now,
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: I know Drew a little bit from church, and when
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: I saw something on his Facebook page recently talking about
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: the importance of the skilled trades, I was super pumped
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: to talk to him about all of that on the show.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: So today that's what I've got for you, a long
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: conversation about the value of the trades, about the value
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: and dignity of work, you know, work itself. If you've
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: got young people in your life, you know, whether they're
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: your own kids or maybe nephews and nieces, maybe grandkids,
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: whatever the case, there's a lot of good stuff in
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: this conversation. So with all of that out of the way,
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: let's just jump in. Drew, thanks for being.
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: Here, Dan, thanks for having me on. Greatly appreciate it.
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm excited to talk about this, and you know,
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: you represent a school helping, you know, get men, young
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: men trained, and we're going to get into that. But
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: the conversation that I want to have is actually bigger
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: than just any particular school. I want to really celebrate
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: and dig into the trades and why they matter more
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: than ever you know right now, and I guess to
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: get us started, let's just jump in with this. Why
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: are you so passionate about the trades? You know, why
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: do you think this work matters so much for me?
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's got a deeper meeting. I come from.
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: My great grandfather was a cabinet maker when he came
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: over to the United States, so there's a personal connection there.
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: And in my family though my grandfather and my father
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: and myself were not directly tradesmen, but we're always men
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: that worked with our hands, and so that was always
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: past down and that was just so important and that's
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: why I'm passionate about it. I also have you know,
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: three children that right now that I want to pass
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: that on to, and it's just so important right now
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: because one where we have we have a crisis of
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: people in the trades, but a crisis and character of
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: word crisis and the character of men and and people
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: that simply just don't know how to use their hands.
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: And it's really unfortunate because I really think we were
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: made to do that.
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I completely agree. Your great grandfather he was a
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: cabinet maker and passed the importance of working with his hands.
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: Pass that on to your dad. Your dad passed that
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: on to you as you're growing up. What kind of
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: things were you doing, you know, what kind of little
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: jobs were you tackling.
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: We had rentals growing up, so we were constantly doing
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: repairs and renovations and working with our hands, so you know,
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: it would be you know, school five days a week,
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: and then on the weekends it was it was working
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: on rentals when you know people move out. Yeah, so
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: I mean it was it was learning all these things.
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: And I look at it just like what a gift
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: that was and something that I can pass down to
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: my kids. And now being at Harmel, it's got a
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: deeper I would call it even like a deeper spiritual meaning.
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: For me. It's not just a means to an end,
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: but it's like it's the gospel of work that we've
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: been called to do.
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: Because harl is is it affiliated with a particular church
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: or is it help me understand that a little bit.
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, Yeah. So so we're we're affiliated with the
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: Catholic Church where we're a men's Catholic trade school, and
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: so you know, we hit deeply on the trades, uh,
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: and also the humanities, you know, studies of philosophy and
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: literature and theology and the and the deep spiritual formation
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: of men. Because at the end of the day, you know,
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: we kind of see it as we've got we've got
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: a problem with young men, and we definitely think it's
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: a it's at the root of it, it's a spiritual one.
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: All right. All right, so let's we'll get into some
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: of that, you know, And I guess what I want
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: to get back to is the shortage in the trades.
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: You know, we hear about that, you referenced it. How
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: real is that gap? You know, we hear a lot
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: of things. There's always a problem with something, something that's
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: you know, the bottom is dropping out of everything all
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: the time. It seems like, how real is this problem
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: that we've got in the trades And what's behind it?
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: Do you think?
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: So I'm just going to shoot out a few a
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: few numbers, and so the Manufacturing Institute estimates that by
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: twenty twenty eight there will be a shortfall of two
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: point four million skill trade workers and for five retiring
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: baby boomers, only two younger workers are stepping up to
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: replace it. And beyond numbers, like the basic skill levels
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: are just declining, Like plant managers are just lamenting that
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: they struggle to find workers who can even read a
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: measuring tape. I mean, and and that's just like, that's
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: like that is just a crazy problem that we see
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: right now simply within manufacturing. And we all feel it
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: right now. I mean, and you know, try to try
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: to get a uh you know, someone that's working and
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: plumbing things like that, you're getting waitlisted. And you know
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: why I think we're feeling it right now.
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: What do you think? All?
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know what, I'll be honest with you. I
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: think it's because for decades we wrongfully shamed the trades
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: as like second class compared to college education. There's nothing
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: wrong with college education, you know. And I was at
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: an event with micro on the east side of the
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: state at the beginning of this month, and he was
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: talking about when he was in high school they had
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: this picture of like this college graduate with this bright,
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: smiling face on their diploma, and then on it was
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: was a tradesman who just looked weirdy, wearied down and
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: disheveled and things like that. So it's it's something that
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: we've been doing in our society for generations right now.
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: And like you know, so just young people and particularly
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: young men are just disinterested, disillusion and really ill prepared.
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: I mean, I know when I was in high school,
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: it certainly wasn't something that was talked about as any
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: any kind of positive you know, if you couldn't cut
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: it in college, you know, there was always this you know,
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: you could always go and do that, I guess. But
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: like you're just explaining, you know, all the marketing that
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: we'd see is the college graduate full of smiles and bright,
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: shiny teeth, and then the trades person just looks weighed
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: down by the way to the world, right, So who's
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: going to choose that?
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: Well, And it's the perception, right, And I mean and
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: the you know a lot of times we say perception
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: reflects reality, and I'm sorry in this way, it doesn't.
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know how many college students are
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: smiling over the amounts of debt that they have. And
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to say that going in the skilled
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: trades is an easy thing either, But I don't look
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: at the young men that have just gone through Harmel
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: and they're starting families. They have no debt, they have
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: fantastic jobs, and they're on a career path development. That's
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: just amazing.
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: No, it is, Yeah, incredibly much so. Because you know,
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: I'm on the phone with Drew Anderson from Harmel Academy
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: of the Trades. You guys are located in Grand Rapids, right.
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: Correct, yep, yeah, yeah, and actually we're moving to a
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: new location the summer within Grand Rampage, which is really exciting.
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: We could talk that about that a little bit la there.
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll get to that. So on the phone Withdrew
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: and yeah, you're you're what you're talking about. My kid
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: is living. I've got a son who's an electrician apprentice.
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: He's working on Journeyman's you know, taking that test and
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: all of that. But everything you just said I can
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: attest to. You know, he doesn't have any debt. He
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: well he's got a vehicle and that's his debt. And
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: he went straight out high school into this work. He's
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: got a really nice savings account going, he's making really
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: good money, and yeah, he's socking it away. He's got
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: a future where he's not going to be digging out
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: from underneath, you know, a mountain, a mountain of debt.
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: Because I've got other friends, other other friends who've got
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: kids who they're talking about it's monumental how much debt
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: they're gonna be digging out of and how how many
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: years they're gonna be working just to pay for that. Now,
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: that's not to say that college isn't like you said
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: everything you said, college is a path for a group
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: of people that is the way to go. I went
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: to college. You know, I don't have any problems with that,
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: But this is certainly something that is it should certainly
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: be considered. The work is needed, the jobs are out
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: there and they pay well. It's not anything like what
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: I was presented in high school.
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: Right, And I mean, I'll tell you I can ebe.
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: We'll talk about this a little bit later too. Is
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: the trades have changed and they're gonna you know, we'll
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: talk a little bit later on of just how much
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: they've changed since the time we've been in school and
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: what the future is looking like. And it's looking really
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: bright right now for trades. But we're in this crisis
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: right now that we've for decades we've made it second class,
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: even third class, and we didn't see it as as
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: a as an equal opportunity for people, you know, So do.
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: You think it's coming around? Are we starting to see
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: it turn? I know Mike grow you mentioned him earlier. Yeah,
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: he's made a you know, the last I don't know
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: how many years that this has really been something he's
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: been driving home. Do you see a change coming?
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: You know what? I can't. I see it with our
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: men at Harmel Academy all the time. But it's going
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: to take a larger change than just like creating trade
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: schools and incentives like and that hits to like a
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: second crisis, like as a crisis of character work and
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: in the hiring standard right now, Dan is just it's
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: so painfully low, like you show up mostly on time,
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: you pass the drug test perhaps, and still employers are
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: still struggling to find workers that meet even like these
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: basic expectations and like family, church, community, all these pillars
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: of character formation, like they've really weakened and they'll leave
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: being particularly young men, but women as well, without the
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: formation that is necessary for a certain level of excellence.
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: You know, we we look at kind of our past
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: and I think we've come very complacent and we just
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: we have this crisis of character. So I'm thinking, like
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: that's before we're even like can we solve this thing
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: at the skill trades? Like we got to have people
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: see that, like work is a really good thing. It's
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: not just something that we have to drudge about on.
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: It doesn't mean I mean it's not hard, but it's good.
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: Well we'll dig into that a little bit. Why is
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: it so good? I mean there's a million reasons I
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: can say that. Right, You're you're living in this world,
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: you're preaching this message, so right, run with it.
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, absolutely, Well I mean for me just you know,
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: I'll go into religious aspect a little bit, but I
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: think it can really speak to everybody. Is like we
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: were made for a purpose. And as a Catholic, like
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: I believe that that we were made for work. You know,
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: work isn't bad, work was good, but the pain of
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: sin is like toil and work, right, Like I'm not
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: gonna say every time in work is oh yeah, it's
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: just amazing. And I always remember my my dad saying like,
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: if you love what you do, you'll never work a
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: day in your life. I'm like, well, no, you'll work.
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: But I think it's like we were made for it.
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: And I think why, like why we're struggling as a
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: society is we've failed to see what we were made for.
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: And I think work is just such a good thing.
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: But we live in a society today in which the
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: aspects the character of work are just not valued. And
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: it's kind of like I want to apply to like running, right,
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: Like I mean, I'm not like, I'm not like the
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: biggest runner. I don't love running. There other things that
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: I love it, but.
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: Runner, true, I only run if I'm being chased, and
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: even then I've got to decide if it's worth it.
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: But you talk about like some of these people they
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: experience are running high, and you can say, like, oh, man,
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: like you got some people that were really made for that.
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: I firmly believe that every single person has been made
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: to work. And I don't mean like subservient work or
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: things like that, but like the dignity of work, and
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: that's probably what what kind of cultivates this crisis of
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: character and work is people don't see the dignity and work,
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: Like you know, we saw the trades as like second
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: class and it's like, oh, if you're a trash man,
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: like I mean, how many times maybe that I don't
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: know if you heard of this in high school, but
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: like you know, we get jokes from like teachers, you know,
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: people that we look up to, and they're like, well,
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: you know, if you don't do well, you're gonna have
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: to say, you know, would you like fries with that?
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: It's just like we've we've lowered the dignity of work.
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: Every person that's doing a job is doing a great
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: service to our society and we have to recognize that. Well.
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: And I think it's so interesting you talked to you,
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: you hinted at and then you didn't go completely into it,
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: but you said the trash man or whatever. That was
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: literally what nobody ever said the fries thing to me,
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: But it was always you're going to have to pick
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: up garbage, you know, if you don't get this figured
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: out and get this college, you're going to end up
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: picking up garbage. Well, thank goodness, we've got people that
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: pick up garbage, right, I mean, there's still incredible importance
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: and value to that. And you know, like my kid
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: would the electrical work. You don't always think about that,
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: as you know, dignified work and important work, until you
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: need it, and then all of a sudden you realize
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: how important this is and how glad you are that
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: you've got people who take care of all of those things,
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: your furnaces and your car, all of these things. And
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: in fact, what happens to me, I'm assuming it happens
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: to most of us out there, is we didn't think
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: about that work, you know, back when we were making
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: the big career choices and you know, we went to
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: college or whatever we did. And now I'm thinking, oh,
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: my goodness, if I had just figured out how to
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: fix a car, do you think, do you realize how
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: much money I would have saved myself? Or if I've
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: figured out how to do plumbing, or if I or
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: if I now I can do some of those things still,
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: But my kid has specialized in it, and man, he
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: is helping people out left and right, you know, I
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: mean right, and whether he's being paid for it, whether
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: he's bailing my parents out on a weekend or whatever
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: he's doing. Yeah, he's feeling great about it. Like you
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: said that, the dignity of it and the value of it.
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: A weekend where I sit around all weekend long. You know,
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: it's rainy, it's dreary, I'm lazy, whatever it is. Yeah,
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: by the end of that weekend I've sat around, I
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: don't necessarily usually feel very good about myself. The weekends
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: where I've gone out there and I've laid patio blocks
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: or something. I'm sore, I'm completely hunched over because my
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: hands hurt, my back hurts, I'm a mess, But I
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: feel great because I've been out there working. There is
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: something really true about what you're saying.
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm going to say. You know, we talk about
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: the runners high. That's the workman's high, you know, and
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: I think everybody feels that.
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: You know, mm hmm, No, like we talk about paint
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: and houses, painting rooms. You know, that accomplishment. It's not
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: just the accomplishment of what you've made. I mean, that's
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: a big part of it, but just having done the
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: work and knowing that you can accomplish it, that you've
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: figured out whatever it was that you maybe didn't know.
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: You know, That's what my kid's having that's the thing
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: I love about the trades that I think is completely
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: It makes me so annoyed. I guess it's the right word.
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: With all of the prep that I had in high
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: school and stuff leading up to college, that the idea
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: that the trades like, if you want to learn, you
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: go to college. If you want to just do something,
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: I guess you go into the trades. My kid is
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: learning NonStop. I mean, every single job he goes to
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: there's something new happening that he's got to figure out
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: and problem solve. His brain is incredibly active and he's
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: constantly figuring out new things. You're learning all the time,
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: and there's so much value in that.
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: Well, you know, and Dan, both you and I work,
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: and we've learned through our work, and I just you know,
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: I'm going to do a shameless plug for Rep. Collite.
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: Is you know I've gone into Rep. Colite and I
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: going in there because I'm talking to somebody who's passionate
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: about paint. I can start having a conversation, I can
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: start answering these deeper questions. And this work isn't belower
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: beneath me, Like it's like I can talk about it
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: and it's just so great to be with people that
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: are passionate about what is important to me in that moment,
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: in that moment when I'm at Rep. Colite, Like it's
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: about getting the right paint, but it's more than that,
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: it's about doing the job right. Like I mean, I
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: love That's why I love like your minutes with Rep. Coolite,
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: because I'm like, oh, man, next time, I'm going to
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: do that. Because a lot of us just like hop
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: into doing the work and then we don't realize what's
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: really needed to be gone.
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, absolutely, I think that's a really good point.
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: You know, it's easy sometimes to think about my time
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: in the store. I was working a store at Repcolite
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: for about ten years. I was going to be a
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: teacher and then a pastor, and then I ended up
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: working in the paint store. And it was easy to
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: think in the beginning that what I was doing was
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: not important work. And yet as I started to realize,
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: you know, as the years went by, I realized it
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: was important. You know, I'm not just selling you paint.
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: I'm selling you or helping you through a project, helping
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: you through something that you're not familiar with so that
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: you can get to spending time with your family or
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: enjoying your home or whatever. There's a bigger dignity to it.
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: And yeah, I just love that aspect of it. Every
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: every every trade out there, everything that we do, there
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: is dignity in it. You just got to sometimes look
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: a little harder.
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, and I would say, I mean, and we're
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: looking beyond the jobs in trades. I mean, any job,
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: there's there's that great thing of you know, putting that
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: and if we see, actually we have a we have
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: a for a formation for our men. We actually have
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: a part where were taught, like throughout our theme of
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: our first year, we have this class called work as service.
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: And that's the thing. If we look at our work
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: not as an ends to a mean, but as what
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: we're called to do, called to serve, it's so much
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: more fulfilling. It's really the work itself is not changing
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: in the tangibles, but like it's the spiritual side of
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: how we look at things, you know, It's like that
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: can make a huge change. It. It's like being a parent,
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: you know, being a it's I probably do the same
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: things that all a lot of other parents do, but man,
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: I love being a father. I love being a husband,
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: and it's not because I'm doing something radically different than
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: other husbands and fathers. I really think it's a mindset
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: And that's what I think we need to look a
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: is we need a mindset change when it comes to
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: the skilled trades, when it comes to work. And I think, honestly,
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: the biggest problem, Dan is we have just these young
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: men that have lost like what their meaning is and
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: it's really bad. Like we're seeing workforce participation among young
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: men are like just collapsing. Like there's just this really
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: aching question that these young men have, and like they're asking,
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: like why should I care at all? What is an age?
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: When when you talk young men, what age are you talking?
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: What?
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: What constitutes young men?
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean I mean we could, I mean we
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: could say I would even I would go like high
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: school all the way to like men that are that
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: are hitting like their thirties. At Harmel, we primarily we
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: we serve men that are post secondary so after right
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: after high school. But you know, honestly, Dan, I mean
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: you've got kids. I've got kids. It's it actually starts
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: when they're really young, you know, like how do we
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: talk about work and how do we present work in
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: front of our children. Do we see it as a
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: burden or do we see it as an opportunity to serve?
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: You know, And that's that's really, that's really it. So
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: I think it starts at a very young age, especially
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: for young men.
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: Well right, right, and and like you mentioned, you were
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: brought up in it. You know, you were constantly dragged
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: into you know, you guys had the rentals and stuff
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: like that. I know my kids they all talk about
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: all the different projects that we tackle around the house
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: that they'd tag along with and help with, and sometimes
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: they did not help very well, they were there anyway,
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: you know, they have the common I think it's common.
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: I hope it's common. The story about the flashlight, holding
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: the flashlight, how a kid can't do it. No matter
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: where they aim that thing, it's always wrong. And Andrew was
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: just my middle kid, was just talking the other probably
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: a couple of weeks ago, just about the stress of
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: being handed the flashlight when we're working on something, because
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: he knew, no matter what I described, he would never
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: figure out the right thing to point it at. Someday
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: he'll have his own kids and they'll aim the flashlight
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: in a million different directions except the right one, and
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: he'll know what I'm talking about. But they were there
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: for the whole thing. They were a part of the process.
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: I guess that's it. Let's talk to the parents or
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: young adults maybe that are listening. Parents of the young adults,
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: grandparents the young adults themselves. Maybe they feel stuck. Maybe
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: it's you know, like I said, their kid and they
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: hate desk work or whatever. They're wondering if college is
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: the right path, what makes a trade? Are the trades
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: or any of this a compelling option for them besides
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: some of the things you said, Well.
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: I think you know a lot of young people, young men,
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: they come out of high school and they don't know
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: what they want to do, and I think at least
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: an exploration or hopping into a job. But what I
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: like about what we do at Harmel Academy is our
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: first year program is like it's an it's a it's
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: a full introduction to like ten different trades. So they're
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: getting like test things out, tease things out. And what
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: I think, because you know, we have these young men
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: that were like so you know, squeezed into a classroom,
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: you know, sit at a desk, do this instead of
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: like working with their manual genius and young women too,
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: but now like they've just they've they've they've gotten through
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: the thing and they have no idea what they want
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: to do. Sure, so I think, you know, like whether
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: that's you know, coming to a place like Carmel, which
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: I heavily encourage because we focus more than just on
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: the trades aspect. There's a communal aspect, there's a whole
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: human formation aspect. But like for a young person to
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: get into a community which the trades are valued is
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: really important because it gets them thinking in a different way,
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: gets them working in different ways. And let's be honest,
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: I think now it's really hard for homeowners, right for
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: young people to become homeowners right now. We got to
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: work on that in our society. But how many people
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: have their houses owned them instead of them owning their houses.
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: And that goes to like it's not necessarily having Like
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: I'm not a tradesman by my profession, but my house
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: doesn't own me. I own my house and I'm able
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: to do some pretty general stuff with it, you know,
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: cutting my own lawn, fixing my own lawn. More when
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: it breaks down doing my own simple electrical or plumbing work,
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: painting there you go. Rep Coo right right there, you
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: know those things. And I think at least like exploring
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: or being introduced to a trades and I've got to
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: make out the appeal for our high schools and our
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: learning institutions, like we got to start teaching this in
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: high school. But you know what, it's also putting tools
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: in the hands of parents and saying don't be afraid.
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: You know, you don't need to do it perfect, just
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: do something with your kids.
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: No, I think that's so good. I can't remember. I'm
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: trying to remember an article that I ran into probably
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: five years ago, and it was out of it was
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: you know, a London area, you know, so across the
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: pond drew. And the story though, was about all these
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: young kids, you know, high school or college age kids.
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: And the article focused on all these different things that
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: they struggled with. It like they took this huge survey,
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: you know, big sample of people, and they had ridiculous
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: numbers of people that didn't quite feel comfortable with crazy
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: things like you know, dealing with a tripped circuit breaker
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: and you know they didn't know what that meant, or
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: switching light bulbs out, and it sounded ridiculous. We at
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: first thought when we ran into the article that it
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: was a joke article, but it wasn't. It was real data.
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: And some of the jobs that they were unfamiliar with
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: or not comfortable with were you know, things at least
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: you can kind of wrap your brain around painting and
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: stuff like that. But even then, you know, that is
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: hard for me to understand because I guess I've grown
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: up with painting, you know, not just here, but mom
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: painting all the time, and there's not much to it,
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: and there's so many jobs out there that you know,
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: Electrical things can go wrong, right, you know, and you
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: can have some problems. Plumbing things can go wrong. I
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: get that, But even then, there's a lot of plumbing
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: things that you can do that are really straightforward that
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: people just aren't comfortable doing and they call for help
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: on and you end up paying a huge amount of
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: money to people who come out you wait, like you said,
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: sometimes because you can't get somebody out there. You know,
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: I had my dryer once, you know, right right at
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: the beginning of home ownership, the dryer quit working and
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: we didn't have money at that point. I mean, like
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: now I roll in the cash. You know, I don't
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: know money now even but back then I had way
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: less and trying to get somebody out there. They couldn't
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: come right away. We had a bunch of kids at
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: that point. We needed the dryer, and I thought, forget it.
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: You know, Dad used to fix everything, and I watch them,
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: and so I thought, I'm going to look it up.
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: So I'm looking online, looking on YouTube, and I found
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: out a dryer. There's almost nothing going on in the dryer,
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: you know, if the motor part works, there's not a
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: whole lot else in there. I mean little things that
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: you can fix here in there. And for thirteen bucks,
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: I figured out what was going on, got the new
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: belt or whatever it was. What an incredible feeling of success.
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: I saved myself that big bill and it was a
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: doable thing, even though it seemed like a mountain that
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: was big to climb. So yeah, getting into the trades,
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: even though you get into something that you know, my
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: kid's inelectrical. You know, that's what he does, and that's
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: what he's really comfortable with. But what he finds is
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: that everything else seems accessible now and he's willing to
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: try and to dig into it, and he learns new
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: tasks and new skills along the way. And when he's
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: got a house, I mean, there's so many things he's
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: going to be able to do to that thing, right.
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: And you know where I think it goes back to Dan.
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: It's that time of holding the flashlight. You know, kids
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: aren't seeing their parents, and whether it's like the parents
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: aren't doing it themselves, or the parents are like, oh
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: my gosh, like I can just do it so much
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: faster on my own, like I don't even know. Like
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: that's part of our job as parents is to form
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: these young people to be adults, not to not to
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: be efficient children, but to be young, you know, to
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: be capable adults that can that can't do these things.
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: And so you know, there is appropriate times where you know,
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: we have them start doing like little things and you know,
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: I have I have a one year old will be
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: two in August, and he helps empty the dishwasher with
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: his five year old in four year old siblings, and
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: it is super inefficient. I could do it so much faster,
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: I know, But that's not the purpose. The purpose, though,
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: is he sees the value in the dignity of work.
• 27:49
  Speaker 3: And he now less than two years old, goes out
• 27:53
  Speaker 3: and seeks to help out with work, and it's like
• 27:57
  Speaker 3: there we go, like it's so true.
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: The problem I.
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: Think, I think that is probably you know, nobody said
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: parenting is going to be easy. In fact, most people
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: say there's it's pretty complicated. And I'm pretty sure that
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: probably the hardest part, one of the hardest parts of
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: parenting is letting them help at their pace, because for
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: my personality, that's brutal. But I know, I know, I've
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: got to let them do it. I've got to let them,
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: you know, cut the lawn in such a way that
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: it just, oh, my goodness, guys, and then I can
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: walk them through what they need to learn, but I
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: got to let them do it, and that's how they learn.
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: I've got lots of pictures of the kids doing exactly well.
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: We never had a dishwasher. I've never in my whole
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: life if I had a dishwasher, I don't even know
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: what that's like.
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: But the thing is, you've you've always had dish washers,
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: you or your kids rights washers.
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And I've got lots of pictures of them sitting
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: at the sink washing dishes with these huge, ridiculous, cheesy
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: grins on their faces because for some reason it's fun
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: to them. I don't get it, but when they're little
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: it's fun. Another fun fades very quickly once it becomes
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: a job. But they do see that. Yeah, I think
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: they see the value of it, and maybe even more,
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: not more importantly, but maybe more so, they see the
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: necessity of it, you know, because not everything I do
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: at the like you said, I think you said that earlier.
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: Not everything we do is fun.
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: It's not like I love you know, I get all
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: giggly when it's time to clean the dishes. You know.
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: That's not how I get how I am. But I
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: do know the necessity of it. The kids know the
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: necessity of it. The house needs this to keep running,
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: and the goodness of that, and right in the value
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: of the clean dishes, the value of an organized place,
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: and what all the good things that come from that,
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: lots and lots of good stuff. At Harmel Academy, you've
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: mentioned it, You've talked about it. You're training young men
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: in the trades with a unique approach. You've kind of
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: hinted at that. Give us a quick snapshot, you know,
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: what's the heart of what you're doing out there for sure.
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean again I want to talk to you know,
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: like you know, with our kids, and like what we
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: can do and what we have at Harmel is Harmel
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: is a place where these men and I mean in
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: this and most honest and genuine way, is a place
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: where they can fail. You talked about that statistic over
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: you know, over in Europe of you know, they just
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: feel so much anxiety of doing these small, simple tasks
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: because they haven't learned how to fail and then get
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: back up. And at Harmel, that's what we're forming these
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: young men. We're forming them through the trades so that
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: they apprentice themselves to Jesus Christ, you know, becoming better
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: husbands and fathers, but also like learning that failure is
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: not the end. Honestly, failure is just the beginning. But
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: then it's it's working past that. And I think that's where,
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: like we talk about the crisis and the skilled trades,
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: the crisis and character, the crisis of meaning is you know,
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: we don't we stop at the failure and we and
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: we don't push beyond it. I think that's maybe what
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: we're struggling in our society.
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: You think you see a lot of that. The people
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: that failure just that's the end of the line. We
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: fail out something and then we want ditch and move
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: on to something else. Is that what you're thinking?
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I mean so you know you talked about,
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: you know, being a teacher. I was a teacher wants
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: to and it's just like you know, you'd see these
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: kids they get these grades and they just be completely
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: deflated and it would like just like set them off
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: spiringing instead of saying, hey, you know what we can
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: we can fix this. And probably as you know, as
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: a teacher, I'm thinking, like I didn't do it. I
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: don't think I did a good enough job of like
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: where you gets fixed us. And my dad so so
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: my I should say, actually, my dad is a tradesman.
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: You know, he's a he's a teacher, but he actually
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: spent twenty years in the Marine Corps as a as
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: a missile technician, so he was a tradesman pretty much. So,
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: but he had something different when he was teaching. He
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: would let these kids retake, redo the work, retake the test,
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: and like give them like like they can build it
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: all the way back up to ninety percent. I'm like
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: oh man. I think about so many teachers that are
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: just like they just let the kids fail and then
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: that's it, Like that's the end. Nope, you messed up,
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: You're done. It's like, no, that's.
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: A lot of right, but that's so much life. I mean,
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: last week on the show, or a couple of weeks ago.
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: I don't know when you're in when this interview, particular
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: particular conversation is going to air, but I was talking
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: about wrong colors, you know, painting a living room. I
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: painted a living room and I'm I wasn't sure when
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: I got done if I had the right color. And
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: at the very you know, we walked through a bunch
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: of things you can do and all of that to
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: work through those situations when you find yourself, if you
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: find yourself in that situation. And at the very end
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: of the show, I was trying to just sum everything up, like, Okay,
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: you know, worst case scenario, you've got the wrong color,
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: you know, just write it off. You know, this is
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: one of those things where you know, most of us
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: have projects. I would say almost all of us have
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: projects that we tackle that we mess up, we fail,
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: we have to redo them. You know, it's not the
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: way we wanted. This might be yours. You know, that
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: particular color thing that might be mine I might need
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: to just buy into. I've got to repaint that one
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: and move on. Oh, there are my lessons and move on.
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: That is literally, that is life is just NonStop failing
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: at something, figuring out why you failed at it or
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: not succeeding as well as you wanted to, figuring out
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: what went wrong where you drop the ball, learning from that,
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: and moving on. And yet I know for a fact
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: everything you're saying is true that people get frozen by
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: the idea of failing. And sometimes they're frozen so badly
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: they don't even start something because they're afraid they're not
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: going to be able to take it to the hoop
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: or whatever, you know, sports analogy you want to make.
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: And yet that's just so unrealistic in most things. Yeah,
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: we have to fail. That's how we grow, how we learn,
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: how we pick ourselves up and keep moving.
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: We can't let the perfect or the ideal be the
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: enemy of the good, and we do that so much
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: much because we have this idea like it's either perfection
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: or nothing. It's just like, what what have we built?
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: It's like no, like we we go and we build,
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: we continue to build. I mean that that and we
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: when we persevere and we push through. And yeah, it's
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: you know, and the thing that if you just fail
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: in the small ways and the bigger ways, you're gonna
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: be just finem you know, because because you'll you'll reiterate
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: those those you know. Harmel Academy has been around for
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: five years and uh, you know, we haven't done everything perfectly.
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: We've actually learned a lot from our mistakes. But we
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: keep on going and we keep on reiterating, and I
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: think that's we've actually come up with something pretty amazing
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: because we didn't stop, because we kept on going.
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: Right, And I do think that's really completely true where
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: you run into sometimes it's the failures that end up
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: producing you know, after we go through the work of
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: dealing with that failure and adjusting to it, we end
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: up with a better result then than we might have
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: had right from the bat, you know, right off the
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: bat with our original plan.
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: So failure shouldn't be something that that we freak out
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: about and run away from. So let's say somebody listening
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: is you know, pumped up, inspired or curious, they want
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: to dip their toes into the trades or just learn
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: enough to tackle some projects at home. Just you know,
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: you can't run them through a whole game plan for life.
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: But what's one practical step they could take today?
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, if they're if they're gonna if they're
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: gonna paint, I mean it metal with rep Collide is
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: where I would start.
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there you go, there you go. You know, you
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: know how to do this. You've done these kinds of things,
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: kinds of things.
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: I mean but seriously though, No, it's it's picking up
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: these little things, and it's it's it's starting small. I
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: think people really we talk about that failure. It's like
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: because people try to try to do like this big
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: colossal thing and and they're and they're gonna fail uh,
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: and they're gonna fail hard. It's like, Okay, let's start
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: out with something small. You know, if you don't know
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: how to drive a nail or screw uh or screw
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: screw like, you know, just just practice. And part of
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: the problem that we have, Dan is like people are
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: not connected with each other, Like talk with somebody that's
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: just a little bit of a level up ahead of
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: you and and see if you can offer a hand
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: or just learn or just do something. I mean, YouTube's phenomenal.
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: But but even then it's like, all right, get get
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: the right size project. You know. For me, Dan, like
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: I hadn't had a lot of Like my my father
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: in law, he's like he's a total gear kid. He's
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: actually a tradesman. Uh you know. He he did a
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: lot of stuff within manufacturing. But he loves cars. I
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: mean this, and he's so good with him And for
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: early on in my wife and I his marriage, I
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: would just i would hand off.
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: The car to sure to.
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: Him and his buddy who's a mechanic, and and they
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: take care of him, be great. And now I'm seeing,
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: wait a second, I'm not gonna be able to teach
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: my kids some of these day. Yeah, so I need
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: to hop in there and do these things. So it's
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: just one is connecting with with someone that knows something
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: and build up a great relationship. So I would I would, honestly,
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: I'd start with connecting with the human being that is
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: that is probably the best thing I think can happen.
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: Now, I really like that. And you know, specialty stores,
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: I mean, if you don't even have somebody in your life,
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: specialty stores, stores that really specialize in whatever they're doing.
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: There's people there who know what they're talking about, you know,
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: and they care, they care about it. But find those
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: people because you know, sometimes I don't know, it depends
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: on the personalities. Some people don't think about it. I
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: always think, oh, this is going to be intrusive. They're
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: not going to want me around. You know, it's going
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: to be annoying to have me sitting there watching everything.
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: Most of my experiences with people who know how to
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: do stuff and you express an interest in learning it,
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: they're very excited to share the info. Oh yeah, it's
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: kind of a it's near and dear to their heart.
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: I'm assuming that your father in law doesn't get annoyed
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: at the thought of you hanging around. He's probably excited
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: to show you all these different cool things that he
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: knows and you can pick it up along the way.
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's rue. I mean we have so like every
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: every Monday night we actually have like our our family dinner,
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: and so like my in laws come and my sister
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: in law comes over, and any you know, my wife's
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: grandmother comes over. They're all from this area. And I
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: love it because, like I could say, hey, hey, Randy,
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: hop into the garage with me, like I want to
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: ask you this question, or hey outside, and it's such
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: good for like our relationship. I mean, I love my
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: father in law. Like I think about some people that
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: they hate their in laws. I'm like, that really sucks
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: for you, because I love my laws.
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: Please speak in your comers. He's showing you all this
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: stuff and showing me you connect too.
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think that's probably maybe where we see
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: this crisis is everybody wants to just you know, they
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: want to kind of stick with their own generation. I
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: think like intergenerational part too. That's part of it is,
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: you know, and not to say that you know I've
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: learned you know Dan, you know me, I worked in
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: a church before, and I learned so much from the
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: young adults that I would be with and i'd mentor.
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: I took so much from them, and they took a
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: lot from me. So that's that relationship is really key
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: and crucial.
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: No, right, And it's all across all different generations because
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: like my kid, like I said, he's got all this
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: electrical knowledge and it's amazing what he's picked up and
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: what he's comfortable doing he's talking about his buddies at
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: work and they're drywall in house you know, they're buying
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: houses up, you know, and drywall in them and all
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: these things that they know how to do that they're
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: really comfortable doing. You know, I know how to dry wall,
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: I know how to do that. But I'm blown away
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: that people that age know way more than I've picked
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: up over the years of doing So if I want
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: to get some tips and tricks, I don't have to
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: necessarily go find somebody older than me. I can actually,
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: I mean it's it's it's across all different generations. I
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: can go find those younger guys and oh my goodness,
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: the stuff they know. Oh yeah, it's amazing. I just
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: connect with people. I think that's really smart. Last thing
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: I got for you is where do you see trades?
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: You know, everything heading in the next decade or so.
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: You know, what do you see coming? Do you think
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: we're going to round the corner on this thing or
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: is it going to get worse before it gets better?
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: You know? I think I think it's I think it's
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: gonnat a little worse before it gets better. But I
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: do I am an optimist, so I think I'm an
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: optimistic like you know, we're going to rise to the occasion,
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: and I mean we right now. We're in the midst
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: of a lot of things going on in the world,
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: but one of them is a strong desire for people
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: to see manufacturing returning back to the United States, across
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: the aisles, across political spectrums, these things like people want
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: to see this and so that is really exciting. And
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: I alluded to earlier, like the trades now were not
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: necessarily like the trades back then, Like some of these
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: shops that I go into, I mean, Dan, it is
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: just wow, Like it is incredible the technology that's being
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: used in the knowledge and the infrastructure and things like that.
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: So it's the trades are not that like when Micro
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: would talk about like you know a guy that's just
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: down on his luck and well, I guess I'll just
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: do the trade. No, actually, the trades are. I mean
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: you talk about it like that is where a lot
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: We're going to see a lot of investment go towards
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: and I see that within the next decade. So I
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: would tell people, hop on the train right now, Harmel Academy,
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: we were are are we still focus on it. We
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: have a second year program that's geared towards manufacturing and
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: man that what these guys learn and what they're able
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: to do in the shops that they're in, I mean,
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: it is incredible, you know, and it's just it really
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: is exciting. But even within like plumbing, electrical, these things
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: like that, I mean, it is fascinating to see the
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: tools and technology. It is so cool. It's so cool.
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: It's amazing where things going. It's really positive, it's really hopeful.
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: And yeah, definitely if you're you know, on the fence,
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: you know, you're a young person on the fence, thinking
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: about college, thinking about you know, the trades which one
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: dig into it a little bit, do some digging. You
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: just realize the jobs are out there. I mean, they
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: are just clamoring for work. The money is good and
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: there's such a value to working with your hands and
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: you know, helping people because a lot of these trades
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: you are directly helping people, you know, live their lives
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: in a better way. You know, homeowners, you're fixing their plumbing.
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: When my toilet's plugged, that nobody's living a happy life
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: at that moment, or a hot water heater isn't working,
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: or you know, there's a lot of misery and when
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: when you can come through and fix those things, you know,
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: you know, yeah, Harmel. If people want to, you know,
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: go online, look for more information. How's the best way
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: to contact you guys.
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, And I told you we have some exciting
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: news where you know, we've been around for five years
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: and we're excited for the next five. We're actually moving.
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: We just signed a lease with Aquinas College, so we're
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: going to be on the east side of their campus,
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: operating out of what used to be the old minor
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: seminary for the Diocese of Grand Rapids, which is really cool,
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: like we kind of see that formation kind of coming
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: full full circle. But yeah, we're we're moving over this summer.
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: A great place to connect with us is at Harmel
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: Academy dot org and they can kind of see, you know,
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: what we're doing and this exciting move that we're doing
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: and being a part of that and being we We
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: also have events and things like that where people can
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: be a part of it. You know, it is about
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: these guys, these young men, sure, but you know, a
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: lot lectures and opportunities for people to be a part
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: of it and kind of dive into work and we're
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: excited for the next five years because we've been really
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: focusing on these menu you talk about what's six exciting
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: in the next ten years and trades. We started out
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: with six men five years ago. Oh wow, we have
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: we have We have formed over sixty men and we
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: have thirty men coming to Harmel next year. So that's
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: super exciting. So we want a lot of people to
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: be a part of this move and move with us
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: as we start this new chapter. But yeah, Harmel Academy
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: dot org perfect is a great place to see what
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: we're doing and all the good work that we're doing
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: here in Grand Rapids.
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: I'll put links to that in our show notes and
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: all of that, And yeah, you guys are one of
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: all these other places where people can learn more about
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: the trades, jump in, you know, even you know, whatever
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: you need to do, talk to some plumbers to I've
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: had some plumbers on the show once where I asked,
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: how do you get started, and they said, just stop
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: out talk to us about apprenticeship and they'll walk you
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: through what that would look like and whatever you've got
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: to do. Dig into it. Like I said, I'll put
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: links to Harmel in the show notes and people can
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: check it out. Drew, thanks so much for hanging out
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: with me, taking all this time to talk about something
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: so important.
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Dan, thank you very much. You appreciate it and
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: appreciate your Rep Colite and this opportunity to talk about
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: what Harmel is doing and how we're trying to make
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: an impact in the trades but in work and especially
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: in the lives of young men.
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: Excellent. I appreciate it, and that's going to do it.
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: Whatever you've got planned this weekend makes your paints a
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: part of it. I do want to highlight the fact
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: that right now we've got basically a deck coding sale
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: going on. So if you've got to do your deck
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: this summer yet, we've got all the products that you're
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: going to need on sale. Benjamin Moore's Woodlucks is on
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: sale for twenty percent off, and Repcollites Deck and doc
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: would Protector, our premium go to product for decks. We've
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: got a water based version and our traditional VOC compliant
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: oil based version. Both of those are on sale the
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: lowest price I think we've ever sold them at. I
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: guess I'm not technically sure of that. If it's not
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: the lowest price, it's really close. I'm going to be
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: talking about decks next week on the show. I'm going
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: to walk you through what a deck project looks like,
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: and we'll cover everything you need to know. In the meantime,
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: just be aware deck products are on sale at Repcolite
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: until June sixteenth, so you've got time to take advantage
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: of that. All right, have a great weekend everybody, and
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: I'll see you next week. I'm Dan Hansen. Thanks for listening.