Latest / Bookies' Favourite / The Weasel and The Whore by Martha Luisa Hernández Cadenas, translated by Jennifer Shyue & Julia Sanches, published by Heloise Press | Review | Queen Mary Small Press Fiction Prize 2026

Transcript

The Weasel and The Whore by Martha Luisa Hernández Cadenas, translated by Jennifer Shyue & Julia Sanches, published by Heloise Press | Review | Queen Mary Small Press Fiction Prize 2026 · Bookies' Favourite

0:10
Hola Comis stats Welcome to the club Book is favorite book club.
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We read literary shortlist and award-winning novels.
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We're currently reading the Queen Mary Small Press Fiction
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Prize Long List. This award recognizes the art of
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literature and promotes works of high merit which which have been
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published in the UK and Ireland. This episode we're discussing
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The Weasel and the Whore by Martha Louisa Hernandez Kadenas.
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Translated from the Spanish by Julia Sanchez and Jennifer Shoe,
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I'm published by Heloise Press. This book won the France Captain
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Novel Prize in 2020 in the original Spanish.
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The English translation was awarded the English Pen
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Translates Award, like many of the other books which have been
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long listed. Hola soy Colin and I am overall
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I think I'm kinda, I don't know, I'm a bit confused with this
1:00
book. I think it was well written and
1:02
it was easy to read, but overall I don't know if I actually
1:05
enjoyed it that much and I think it's just because it's a little
1:07
sad and maybe feels like a pointless in terms of a read.
1:12
I think these sort of books always like, they're never my
1:15
favorite thing. I feel like it was lacking some
1:17
sense of like, I don't know, arc or growth or something to learn
1:21
from it. I just felt like I was reading
1:24
sad content, you know? Hello, I'm Hannah.
1:28
And yeah, I find this book quite dark.
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When I originally had picked it on the list, I didn't think it
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would be this stark. But when I was looking up the
1:39
press, they'd said that they are like, on the hunt for stylistic,
1:43
innovative stories with striking content.
1:45
And I feel like this is exactly what this book was for me.
1:50
I I'm kind of a bit like Holland as well, where I really enjoyed
1:54
the writing and I enjoyed, you know, this story of saying I
2:00
enjoyed the story in a way is feels wrong because it was so
2:03
dark, but there was just like a little something maybe missing
2:06
for me. But overall, I still really,
2:08
really liked it. God, I feel really weird too.
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And I liked it because you're like, hi, I'm Hannah and I like
2:15
her really dark story. But you know, I think it was
2:19
good, but. Hi, I'm Lizzie.
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And yeah, this book was I found quite strange and maybe it met
2:26
me like a strange time, but I am kind of like I found it.
2:31
You guys talk about how easy it was to read.
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I found it really difficult to read like I found it not even
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the like dark sense I found like the the timeline.
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I feel like paragraphs would like change.
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Yeah. Like the time and where, where
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she was. And it took me like a moment or
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two to be like, OK, this is quite.
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I don't know. It didn't, it wasn't, it wasn't
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like I was like, I was quite confused at times, but I didn't
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feel like there was a way for me to not be confused.
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I found it really dark as everybody else clearly did, but
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I did find it a bit of a slog to read as well.
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I, I think it was some bits that where I was like, that is
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amazing writing that is so great.
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And then I was like reading for another 20 pages and I was like
3:13
quite bored of this now. But, and I think as well, I was
3:17
very desensitized to a lot of the stuff and she was still kind
3:21
of making the same themes over and over again.
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And I was like, I've kind of, and that sounds really bad and
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really horrible. And this is maybe where I'm
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like, this didn't meet me at a great place because I was like,
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I can't read this. This is just a bit much.
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So I find like I was just kind of desensitized to it.
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So then by the end I was like, I'm not maybe making these deep
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connections that I should be, which is I think is a problem
3:44
with the reader. Not really necessarily what the
3:48
author's done. So I kind of feel that bad
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saying that, but I did really struggle with this book compared
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to some of the other ones on the on the list.
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Spoiler warning from this point onwards, if you haven't read the
3:57
book and you're planning to come back to this discussion after
4:00
you've done so. And another warning is that this
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podcast will contain explicit content and content that you're
4:07
you may not be comfortable with, specifically about sex work and
4:11
sexual assault and everything in that ballpark.
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So if you're not comfortable with that, do not listen to
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this. To start us off, here's a quote
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from The Weasel and the Whore. Once you're a character, you
4:25
don't get to choose where you want to be.
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Time decides for you and for the men, the directors, the
4:31
presidents, the playwrights, the dictators, the professors, the
4:35
academics, the writers. They say she's just a big whore.
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So in The Weasel and the Horror we follow Mary, a young Cuban
4:43
woman living in Havana from Monday to Saturday.
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Mary is part of Havana's underground art scene.
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She's a talented and creative artist, moving amongst the
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cultural circles. However, on Sundays she is
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sexually exploited by a powerful government official.
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Let's start things off by hearing from Orbuki for this
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episode. Anna Marty Balsales, who runs
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the publisher Heloise Press. Publishing The Weasel and the
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Horror has been a really, really great experience.
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Martha is an amazing writer. She's a very kind person and
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it's been lovely sharing with her all the production process
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and the translation. She did have a beautiful
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relationship with our translators, which is fantastic.
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She is such a brave young woman. The way in which the book
5:33
challenges the regime in Cuba with these experimental prose is
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just, it was just the perfect fit for us and it has done
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really well. We are now printing the second
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edition which will have a new cover colour and the book has
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been very popular amongst book clubs and is just fantastic and
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we hope to keep publishing her. She is now about to publish her
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second novel in Spain, because of course in Cuba is really
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difficult for her due to the topics that she explores, which
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just adds to her bribery because she still lives there.
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So yes, I hope you guys are also loving this book as much as we
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do. That's amazing that she still
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lives in Cuba and is writing about these like really big
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topics. Like I'm amazed and have such a
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big praise for the author for doing so.
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Yeah, because she's quite unflinching with her
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descriptions of the people involved in all this kind of
6:40
stuff. And that's that's some level of
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bravery that I certainly do not have.
6:46
Should we talk about the title? Because I think that's kind of
6:48
like huge thing for the entire rest of the book.
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So it's called the Weasel and the Whore.
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Sounds like a fairy tale sort of thing, like an Aesop's Fables.
6:57
I think fairy tales are so woven in to the whole thing.
7:00
That's true. Yeah.
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Talked so many times about fairy tales and stuff, so I thought it
7:04
was kind of trying to to riff off that.
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That's funny as being part of that, but yeah.
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Yeah, OK, I can see that now. Not that you said that, but the
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reason the horse. So obviously the whore in this
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story is Miri, who is the plague nest.
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She's who we see the story through the narrator.
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And like we said in the description, she is on Sundays.
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She becomes like the prostitute for a government official named
7:35
R. We don't get an actual name for
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him. And the weasel is pretty much
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seemingly everyone else in the story, or at least weasel is
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sort of a category that she has has created for these different
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types of people, especially men in this regime.
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They're like kind of known for being like wicked creatures.
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As well as that, there's like a lot of violent sexual stuff the
7:56
weasels perform as an animal. So that kind of gets in built
8:00
into it. But like through the story, like
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weasels are a huge part of like the world building, if you know
8:05
what I mean. What do we think of that?
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Oh, I was like, this is one of the main things I really wanted
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to talk about. So I'm so glad we're starting
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off with it because at the start, well, first of all, I
8:16
love that the term weasel, it's like not meant literally.
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It's like really symbolic throughout it.
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And when I first started reading it, I was like, oh, weasels just
8:26
must be men, like the bad men, the corrupt men.
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But then I realized that the weasels, it's more than that.
8:35
It's like the reference to like Cuba's political power structure
8:41
and that corruption and then and they're also like exploitation
8:46
of its citizens. And then you can kind of use
8:50
the, like, metaphor of a weasel in a way, you know, like they're
8:56
being sneaky and that like, there's just so much taking the
9:00
weasel and I can't even put into words because I'm getting myself
9:06
blustered. But I just thought it was a
9:08
really good use of the word weasel and what it can be used
9:13
for. What did you think, Lucy?
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Yeah, you kind of hit the nail on the head and you said like
9:18
when you start reading it and she obviously so that the man
9:20
that she are, he's just got a letter, but the man that she's
9:23
kind of pimped out to by her mother, which is another element
9:27
of the story. But he he's described as a
9:31
weasel. And you kind of get this idea
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that weasels are only the men in powerful places who are
9:37
exploiting women and that kind of idea, as you said, like a
9:41
weasel being like cunning and deceitful and that kind of
9:44
stuff. But something that kind of
9:46
becomes apparent as you go through the book is that she
9:49
even at times classifieds herself as a weasel.
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At least that's what I kind of got from it.
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And it's like this blurring of lines.
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And I thought, and this is maybe something for talking about
9:59
later, but something that I really noted was high low
10:03
herself esteem was the whole way through the book.
10:06
And I think it's start and this is her like how she considers
10:09
herself a weasel is like she's, she sees other people as being
10:14
really good in some ways, like her sister and like other people
10:17
in her life as being like these impossibly good people.
10:20
And then she sees herself under this lens of not being good.
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And I, I find that a really interesting way of doing this
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because I think at the start, I think everybody is self
10:29
deprecating. Most people in the world are
10:30
slightly towards that kind of scale where you're like a bit
10:34
mean about yourself. So I kind of thought that was
10:35
just that. And then as you go through the
10:37
book, it's like, OK, this this person really hates herself.
10:40
Like she. Really.
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Really. Hates herself.
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She's such low self esteem. She thinks she's just as bad as
10:44
these men like it was. There was something really sad
10:47
about that. I think sadder than the stuff
10:50
happening to her was her own relationship with herself and
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her own. Relationship.
10:54
With other people, and especially I think her friend,
10:57
what was her friend called Pamela, Yeah.
11:00
And her sister and everybody that she just thought was
11:02
impossibly good and just made me really sad that that whole
11:06
element of it. When we're talking about the
11:08
weasels as well, I thought she was referencing in the book as
11:11
well to those people who are like complicit to what the
11:14
regime is doing in that way. And it's kind of like this book
11:18
was to me showing as well that the system, this collect corrupt
11:23
system is not being sustained only by these political leaders,
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but those complicit actors in it.
11:28
You know, the people who don't want to stand and do anything
11:31
about it. They're just going along with
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it. So in a way that they're the
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weasels too. So I really love that narrative
11:38
throughout. Like every person can be a
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weasel in a way. What did you guys think about
11:44
the relationship with her mother?
11:46
So basically her her mom is like capable of this incredible kind
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of cognitive dissonance whereby she has she has kind of no,
11:58
we're assuming knowingly pimped out her daughter to our the main
12:02
weasel, but at the same time is like still think she's going to
12:06
help our with his books and like writing like novels and stuff
12:11
about. And her mom's very into the
12:13
regime and is all very into that kind of stuff.
12:16
But her mom really hates her and is really urging of her.
12:20
And you kind of get the feeling that This is why she is the way
12:23
she is almost to an extent. But her mom has pimped her out,
12:26
but also into the same side of the coin, doesn't acknowledge
12:31
the fact she has. And I just find that really
12:33
like, it was so horrible to read and.
12:38
It kind of around me of so obviously previous winner of
12:41
this prize was, uh, there's monster behind the door and the
12:44
relationship between the mother and daughter in that book was
12:47
felt very similar to this because it seemed like it was
12:49
making the, the adult version of this character like this way
12:54
because of the mother's influence or whatever.
12:56
And I think what's interesting is that the mum suffers from
12:59
these epileptic like seizures or whatever and the daughter still
13:02
takes care of her. I mean like her moment of her
13:05
moments of need or whatever. But there's something
13:07
interesting because it's she keeps referring to like her
13:12
mother becoming this sort of like flashy, like blood pouring
13:16
sort of creature. And I feel like her mum was AI
13:20
mean. Lisa may have.
13:20
And every time she talked about it, her mum was a representation
13:23
of her view of Cuba and how it's sort of like it's like the sick
13:27
sort of thing that keeps pushing through and like exerting its
13:31
power and all these different people.
13:33
Do you know, like, for example, forming this like Miri as a
13:36
person. I like it's the influence of the
13:38
country itself, you know, like it's sick and like it has these
13:41
seizures, but she still keeps Miri is still there.
13:44
I like obviously like Martha Louisa Hernandez Kadenas is like
13:49
still living in Cuba. So to me, do you know, it seems
13:51
like mirroring of the the fact that Miri still with her mother
13:55
and is like taking care of her in in this sort of this sort of
13:58
state. But then I think what's also
14:00
very interesting is later on when R dies and the and Miri's
14:06
mother comes along to like help clean it up or to like help her
14:10
through it. She actually is really quite a
14:11
supportive not not like she's not like, Oh, it's OK.
14:14
Do you know? But she is like, she enters like
14:17
mission mode and she's like, no, we're going to like fix this.
14:20
And she does stand by her daughter almost like we're
14:22
paying the favor of her, taking care of her.
14:24
And I'm like, is this also, maybe I'm thinking too
14:26
metaphorically about it, but I'm like, is this the fact that
14:28
while she can criticize Cuba, there's still a part of Cuba
14:31
that, you know, Miri or that Martha, whoever like wherever
14:34
the line is views is like is always there to support and will
14:38
always come to save save her, you know?
14:40
I did not get any of that when I was reading, but I think that's
14:43
brilliant. I was not being you over that at
14:46
all, but I think. That no, the part there sorry,
14:48
when you were saying about the blood like because it doesn't
14:51
her mom do something for like mosquitoes or something like
14:56
that and I'm like, oh, they suck the blood like there's.
14:59
So much stuff about that. There's so much stuff about like
15:01
the insecticide. Yeah.
15:04
People putting it on other people and like.
15:07
And that's why I think it's supposed to be like, these
15:08
mosquitoes are the people who are like draining the life out
15:11
of Cuba as a thing, but also Cuba is then the one killing
15:15
them. I, I don't, I don't know, maybe
15:17
that's too, too broad a reach. Do you know?
15:20
Because if the mum is killing them in the play, there's a play
15:23
version where the mother is like massacring this Egyptian
15:28
mosquito. I don't know species.
15:32
And it's like, are we then to think that Cuba is also wiping
15:35
out the people that are drinking the blood from Cuba or whatever?
15:38
I don't know. I think there's definitely an
15:40
analogy in there. I think that you're probably, I,
15:43
I didn't see it when I was reading it, but I think that,
15:46
yeah, you could be on to something there, Colin,
15:48
definitely. Maybe I could just be crazy.
15:50
It's just because the first part of the story is convulsions.
15:52
Like, Part 1 is called convulsions.
15:54
And it felt very much like, why this is making a huge deal of
15:59
this. Like, what is a convulsion
16:00
throughout the rest of the story?
16:01
It's only her mother. And then I was like, feels like,
16:03
it feels like Cuba is convulsing, you know, in these
16:06
different periods of sickness. Yeah.
16:08
And something we haven't really mentioned is the fact that this
16:10
is all set in 2016 when Fidel Castro dies.
16:14
And there's some some of the best parts of the book.
16:16
I think that every so often there's just like a quote, like
16:19
I underlined a lot of the book and I was like, this is actually
16:21
just this like I did. And I've said this like find
16:24
issues with the writing where I did struggle with it.
16:27
But then every so often something will come along and
16:29
it's actually brilliant. Like what she's written is
16:31
fantastic. And the things that she's
16:33
written about Fidel Castro and the relationship of the country
16:37
to Fidel Castro, the fact no one's drinking except for the
16:41
first areas where you're allowed to drink.
16:43
And it's like it's so strange. It's such a strange thing.
16:46
Imagine like someone here died and we were just like, right,
16:51
Well, that's, that's a wake of no drinking, no entertainment,
16:54
nothing. And it's like, it was just so
16:57
strange. And the Wi-Fi park, it was like
16:59
a different, like it is a different world.
17:02
Because I've actually never read any Cuban literature until this
17:05
year where I've read two books in the space of like a month.
17:08
And the other book was about kind of people who had left
17:14
Cuba, so like refugees in America, etcetera.
17:18
So I didn't really get the Cuban vibe from it, just more like I'm
17:21
escaping Cuba, whereas this is very much in Cuba.
17:25
You have no doubt that you're like somewhere strange.
17:29
Not that Cube is strange, but it has a different feel than
17:33
Ireland definitely. Yes, definitely.
17:36
There were so many parts Lucy's well that I had underlined in
17:40
the book because I was like, these lines are just fantastic
17:45
because there are parts of the book where I find myself like
17:48
struggling or trying to figure out what was going on.
17:51
And then, but like you said, Lucy, there's parts where I'm
17:54
just like, it just absolutely hits.
17:57
Do you have any you want to read our phrase?
17:59
Well, I was thinking because I just saw this one that appeared
18:02
to me and I think it's just on the line of, I think, I think
18:05
when I start reading these books, it's like I go really
18:07
into like one thing or like an emotional state of someone.
18:09
And I think I really honed in on the fact that she's so like
18:13
doesn't like herself. So maybe that's to do with the
18:16
stuff that I've underlined. But she says, and this is on
18:20
page 133, if Yara saw me know, she'd reject me wholesale
18:24
because there's nothing in me that could be useful to her.
18:27
So basically it's like she only sees her uses to people as like
18:32
good elements herself, like not the fact that she might be
18:35
someone that Yara likes, likes within herself.
18:39
And she almost is like it's really sad.
18:41
Like her relationship with Yara, Like she's just so desperately.
18:46
She like, loves her like, and she'd say like, you know, or she
18:48
at least loves her legs or whatever.
18:50
I think a lot of the novel really talks about the
18:54
commodification of the self. So you know, this idea that Mary
18:59
is a whore but or like, but she's selling herself.
19:01
But in this idea for me, it's she's selling herself to be able
19:06
to function in Cuban society. So she's had to sell, you know,
19:10
her body in a way, you know, to our but she's getting money, you
19:14
know, to help out with her family.
19:15
And then her silence. She is, yes, we, you know, the
19:18
idea or silence and then her loyalty, then, you know, to her
19:22
family or the loyalty to our as well to keep silent about what
19:27
he's been doing to her. And then for me, it's like the
19:30
sense in the sense it's like this meaning of the whore is
19:34
more like metaphorical. So it's her being forced to
19:37
treat her identity for survival. Oh, there's just so much in this
19:42
novel where I'm like, it's, it's so deep.
19:47
And like you said as well, Lucy, there's other parts as well
19:49
where there's so many, like, quotes.
19:53
And I think she's really, really good at having like, shocking
19:58
imagery because there's like a line that I have written down
20:01
where it says Alberto fell into the throng of people like a
20:04
rabbit with its throat slit. I'm like, it's so striking and
20:08
haunting. There's like these lines that
20:11
come out the back and you're like, whoa.
20:13
What did you think of Alberto's story and how it impacted her?
20:18
Because I was like, this is such a there's.
20:23
Reading that story made me really quite emotional.
20:25
I think it's in the start and just this this boy who's kind
20:29
of, I don't know, I can't remember exactly, but is he like
20:31
perceived as maybe being gay? So therefore, yeah.
20:35
Yeah, well, he's caught. He's caught in a bathroom.
20:37
She's now with. Him in school and like, it's
20:39
just part of my heart. Yeah, and doesn't he kill
20:43
himself in the end? Yeah, like while still in
20:46
school. And I feel like that because I
20:49
don't know about necessarily had any of that started with her in
20:52
her life at this point with our but it's like she almost knows
20:56
like she has to survive in some way.
20:58
And it's like her and also something we haven't really
21:02
mentioned, but our is she drinks some kind of tea when she meets
21:08
him on a Sunday. And so she is completely
21:11
unconscious in his house for ours and doesn't know what's
21:15
happened. And then she records herself.
21:17
Yeah, oh, I find this part so hard.
21:21
Like every time she's like, oh, I drink the tea, I record
21:24
myself. But then the end we find out he
21:26
has obviously like CCTV or whatever up in his eyes, so then
21:31
the police are able to play. Yeah, and they're able to find
21:37
her phone as well. So they have listened to all the
21:39
signs and they're like laughing at her and all all that.
21:42
Yeah, that, yeah. I I think in those, in those
21:47
descriptions, when she's like listening to the songs, like
21:50
she's imagining what's going on in like when she's unconscious
21:54
or whatever, and like her stuff that she's imagining.
21:56
I mean, there's what people do you imagine the worst, you know,
21:59
like she's hearing sounds, but she's creating these like dark,
22:03
demented, sort of like maybe that is happening.
22:06
We don't know. Because like we're all she's got
22:08
is the songs and like she's, you know, Spiral and anything with
22:11
this. And I find that's so interesting
22:12
because I wish we had gotten like confirmation in somewhere
22:16
from the CCTV footage because if they could look back and look at
22:19
that stuff. You know, what I also thought
22:20
was interesting about the CCTV footage, now they've mentioned
22:23
it, she's recording like some sense of power.
22:26
Like she's like, I've got power, I'm recording this like I I have
22:30
power here, but she doesn't realize the entire time she's
22:32
being watched and recorded as well.
22:34
So it's the whole idea of like this panopticon of this regime
22:38
is like seeing do you know, each citizen and they all think that
22:41
they're wrestling some sort of power back.
22:43
But like she, I mean, like you said, Hannah, like she's a whore
22:45
and she's like giving not just her body, but she everyone in
22:49
this like that she's been describing, it's like, what use
22:52
can they sell some part of themselves for for this regime,
22:56
you know, and it's just like this regime in Cuba, which I've
22:59
never seen before because like never been to Cuban, never read
23:01
any Cuban literature except this.
23:02
This is showing like this sort of, I don't know, like is it
23:06
wrong to say dystopian state? I don't.
23:10
Maybe that's too big a word. I think it's, I don't it's all
23:14
right in the context, like, because to us it possibly does
23:17
seem a bit dystopian, you know? I was.
23:23
I don't know if anyone else thinks this.
23:24
I struggle calling me area whore.
23:26
I hate the word whore. I just, I know it's fused in the
23:29
way to sell herself or like what I was talking earlier about the
23:33
idea of selling something in that way.
23:35
But I feel like that's another thing with her, that to me she's
23:40
referencing or calling herself a whore and I hate that like I
23:44
did. But then she does, does she not?
23:45
At one point start to she like almost seems to claim back some
23:49
sort of like power and she's like prostitute.
23:51
You know, the player would be called instead.
23:53
There's a player that's something something whore, but
23:56
she's like would be called us something prostitute instead,
23:58
because she's like reclaiming it to be like, I am a prostitute,
24:00
not a whore, you know. But then she gained a sense into
24:03
just being like like self-titled a whore as a as a story goes on,
24:07
she's she's not in a good place really.
24:09
I was just looking at page 130 if you guys remember this.
24:13
I remember thinking feeling so anxious when I read it.
24:16
It's like a tiny paragraph on the page.
24:19
Do you want me to read it? Yeah.
24:21
It's really small and he's desperate today or is desperate.
24:24
He wants me to dine the tea. He doesn't want to listen to my
24:28
chatter. He doesn't look at me.
24:29
I know he's acting weird, he doesn't want to talk but he
24:32
looks down on me. But all I can think about is his
24:34
teeth. I stare at his dentures is he's
24:37
so ridiculous. It's a relief.
24:38
I drink all the tea and this is the last time she meets our but
24:43
it's like that paragraph is so terrifying because she's a
24:45
butcher, she knows that there's something wrong with him.
24:47
And he knows. He's just, he doesn't want to
24:50
speak to her. He just wants to die and he just
24:51
wants her to be drugged immediately.
24:54
That is so terrifying. How?
24:56
Yeah. Like I I would run out of the
24:59
hot. But then if you're in that
25:01
situation all the time, normal, I think she's.
25:03
Resigned herself? Yeah.
25:04
She's resigned herself to become a tool just for people, you
25:07
know? It shows her what I thought.
25:10
Yeah, I thought what was going to happen, I thought this was a
25:12
turning point that what I thought was going to happen is
25:16
like some big political scandal comes out and everything about
25:19
our which is kind of funny in the sense of like we've had this
25:22
whole like Prince Andrew stuff and all going on at the same
25:24
time. So I thought it was like, oh,
25:26
it's all going to come out like Epstein style.
25:28
Like they're going to find out that what he's been doing to her
25:32
and then, you know, there would be some like resolution, but
25:35
then it turns to completely different in that the police and
25:37
I'll find it and make fun of her for it.
25:41
And I just thought it was so sad.
25:44
I did find it feels a bit hard. I found it quite hard to read
25:48
though, like just just the style of writing.
25:51
Yeah, You know, I agree with you.
25:52
I think while the book I found was quite easy to read, there
25:56
was a lot of repetition and things just kept getting sad
25:59
again and again. I'm like, OK, we get it.
26:01
You know, this book could have been like 3/4 of size.
26:05
Like you could have removed an entire quarter and it would just
26:07
be in the repetition. You have lost anything.
26:08
You know, I think, I don't know. I don't really understand why,
26:11
why that was. I don't know.
26:12
I was like, was this the translation decision or just
26:14
what the original text was doing?
26:16
I'm not sure, but it felt like, well, maybe you could say it's
26:19
because Amiri's mindset, it's like spinning, you know, she's
26:22
keeps reliving the same thing and, and stuff.
26:25
I just felt like the first probably half of the story, it's
26:27
like, OK, we literally you're telling me something that just
26:30
happened again and again and again and again.
26:32
It was like the second like half whenever like Pamela kind of
26:36
came in and started to explore the message, like the messages
26:39
back and forth between them that I was like, OK, this is more
26:42
interesting. But I do think like, yeah, I
26:45
don't know. I think the writing was hit or
26:46
miss really. Yeah, I, I got that as well.
26:51
Like I, I think, yeah, as you said, I think maybe that's why I
26:58
was kind of like, is this doing something that I've not realized
27:01
is happening, you know? And then I was actually
27:03
thinking, you know, because with the International Booker last
27:06
year, it's like I read everything twice.
27:08
And I do feel like it gave me more of an understanding.
27:10
I was like, I think I would struggle to try and read this
27:12
twice, Yeah, but I was kind of like, should I have given it
27:17
that extra? The chance, yeah.
27:20
Yeah, the chance because I, I do think parts of it were really
27:22
good and I actually really enjoyed our, our discussion on
27:25
it, like all the points and stuff.
27:27
But I, it just, it didn't, it didn't click with me and I think
27:31
as well I wasn't feeling that. So see, when it when it became
27:37
very like, especially with the stuff with Alberto, I felt very
27:40
like and with her, both of those that they haven't quite near the
27:43
start where it starts explaining what happened to those, to the
27:46
two of them. And I'm like, I can't.
27:48
Like I just was disassociating. Yeah, I think, I think, yeah,
27:54
Earlier you said what desensitization and you're like,
27:56
oh, I think this was me. I actually don't know if that
27:58
was just, I think the book is written in a way that like, I
28:02
think it's, while it's exploring these things, it feels a bit
28:05
disconnected from what it's actually describing.
28:08
And I maybe that's the point Mary is trying to be separate
28:11
from what's going on or whatever.
28:13
But I kind of felt I too was desensitized to like what was
28:17
happening and was just like words on a page rather than
28:20
actual like experiencing and like feeling what she would be
28:24
feeling or like, do you know, trying to understand it that
28:26
way? And I don't know, like I'm like,
28:28
was that a self preservation thing in terms of like me
28:30
reading or is that just the writing style?
28:33
I suppose as well, though, there's probably a
28:35
disassociation because of the manner in which those Sundays
28:40
happen whereby she is drugged. So she probably had this
28:45
association, but she knows what's happening.
28:47
She can't imagine what it is. And yeah, and there's, I think
28:51
near the start where she's kind of almost imagining things that
28:53
are happening. And it's like they're really
28:55
blunt and horrific. And it's like, she doesn't know,
28:58
you know. Yeah.
28:59
So horrible. It's such a horrible.
29:01
And I think like, it's only that you mentioned the drug thing
29:03
too, because that is obviously a huge part of it because she also
29:06
talks about like a be it what it was like, I tried to Google what
29:09
this stuff was about. A or a beard.
29:11
Yeah, it's. Insecticide isn't.
29:13
It Oh, is that what it is? And like, because she talks
29:15
about that being put in like to kill, but it's at one point she
29:19
also says, is this what's in the tea or whatever?
29:21
Do you know, like she's doing herself as being like the like,
29:24
if that is the insecticide, you know, she's like, oh, I need to
29:26
like like it's killing me or drugging me.
29:28
I think maybe The thing is because she's drugged on the
29:31
Sundays and obviously she doesn't really know what's going
29:33
on. I'm like, is that why the book
29:36
feels sort of almost dreamlike or desensitized because she's
29:39
she is like it feels like it's been she's been drugged through
29:42
the entire rest of the story. Like as you've been told of
29:44
things, it's coming from like a detached sort of out of body
29:49
sort of view, if you know what I mean.
29:51
And I think the only things that I felt were very, very connected
29:54
and got me the most was the the messages between her and Pamela.
29:58
Like those were the things I was like, oh, these feel like the
30:01
most real are the most like genuine parts of the story.
30:05
They didn't feel like they'd been like smoothed over with
30:08
like a dream like he is or whatever.
30:10
It just felt like real. Actually writing to each other.
30:14
And actually. Trying to convey something to
30:17
each other, like there was something tentative about their
30:20
letters of like, oh what, What are you up to?
30:22
Kind of. Like.
30:23
Which I think is actually very, very realistic to friendships
30:26
that, you know, have maybe gone a bit to the wayside and it's
30:29
like you're trying to get back in touch, but you don't really,
30:32
you don't know exactly what word and stuff.
30:35
I thought, yeah, I agree with you there that those parts were
30:37
very. Yeah, they were, they were very
30:39
good. Yeah.
30:41
I this book is one of those books that I'm like I would
30:44
struggle to give it a low rating because I did think it was well
30:47
written, but I also was like I would I struggled to say I
30:50
enjoyed it in any. Way to?
30:52
Perform. Yeah, it's that thing we found
30:57
the last time is like a lot of the Booker price have been like,
31:00
oh, this is good. Well, this is a good book, but
31:04
it's not fun to read and it's not enjoyable to read and I
31:07
don't actually think I got anything from it.
31:08
So it's like, where do we draw the line between quality of a
31:11
product and then the actual enjoyment from the the quality?
31:14
You know I. Think as well like comparing it
31:16
to the other two books that I've read from the the long list, I
31:20
would be like, I think small boat was very like and I like
31:27
this in a book. I think it was very concise in
31:29
some ways and very like this is this is what I'm trying to do.
31:32
This is what's happening and this is what you're going to get
31:34
for the next 100 pages. Is this kind of focusing in on
31:38
this issue. Whereas I did find that the way
31:42
it's always much more like all over the place.
31:46
I find it much more done. Maybe this is just because I
31:50
require more like in like like narrow minded view of things.
31:55
I struggle to keep more than one concept in my head, which is why
31:58
I think I kind of went for the like she hits herself and that's
32:03
what I'm going to focus on for this whole book.
32:04
I think I really struggle like I do not contain multitudes.
32:08
That is what I'm saying. I am A1 track course or whatever
32:13
the word is. So now let's give this book a
32:15
rating out of five stars. What are we thinking?
32:18
I'll go first since I'm already talking, uh, I am thinking I'm
32:23
going to give this probably a three out of five.
32:25
And let me explain this for a second, because while I think
32:28
like the book itself is really well written and I think it's,
32:33
it's quite captivating and I think it explores some really
32:36
important themes. And like, I really like what,
32:39
uh, Cadenas has done with like, do you know, this, this world
32:43
and the setting and all the different characters and motifs
32:46
in it. I just didn't really enjoy it.
32:48
And it's more coming from an angle of I think it's very, very
32:50
dark. It's a bit too heavy.
32:53
It felt like it wasn't giving me something that I was looking for
32:57
from a book. And I think that's done to my
32:58
own personal tastes and like what I like from stories and
33:01
like, I very much like a story, you know, and I don't know if
33:04
this was was really that. So while the book itself, I'm
33:06
giving a three that's also taken into account my, my view on the
33:11
on like, you know, my bias towards reading and what I
33:13
enjoy. And I think, uh, you know,
33:16
overall, I could probably see this winning, uh, this award
33:20
just because it, to me, it felt quite similar to there's a
33:24
monster behind the door. And I and I think like in terms
33:26
of tone, showing a community that you never normally get an
33:30
insight into, it felt very that like that.
33:32
But I don't like they're probably not going to.
33:34
That's not what they're looking for if you know what to win.
33:36
But I wouldn't be surprised at this one.
33:38
Yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm actually kind of going to maybe echo what
33:41
you've kind of said, Colin. I'm three stars as well.
33:44
And I, I'm giving a three stars. So I think the writing was, was
33:49
decent. And I think that this is maybe
33:53
an example of a book that just did not meet me at the right
33:55
time and I struggled to read. And I think there were
33:59
definitely pacing issues in my opinion with the book, but then
34:04
there were just these brilliant bits that I was like, oh, that's
34:06
fantastic. And and as I said, I really
34:08
liked how it delved into her, her relationship with her
34:11
mother, relationship with her sister and all this kind of
34:14
these feelings that she has with herself.
34:15
And I find those that's absolutely fascinating.
34:18
I think that Colin, you said earlier that maybe it was a bit,
34:22
some of the metaphors and things were a bit over overdone.
34:24
And that's something that I maybe didn't enjoy as much and
34:29
but overall, like it was a really good book.
34:31
Like I definitely wouldn't say don't read it or anything, but
34:35
for me it just wasn't the right book at the right time.
34:37
And that's why I've I've given it a three.
34:40
But yeah, it was it was definitely decent.
34:42
That definitely worth 3. Could it win?
34:46
I actually don't know that it will win.
34:48
I think, although the monster behind the door is also quite
34:52
kind of erratic at times. There was a real like humor to
34:56
it, which I think kind of maybe would have kept people in.
34:59
I do think, and this is maybe going to what Hannah said, but
35:03
it's a wee bit disjointed. And I think that that might it
35:07
might make it harder for all the like readers coming.
35:09
It's I don't think it's the most accessible book in my opinion.
35:13
And I think usually they try and make them maybe a bit more
35:16
accessible. So that's why I'm going to say
35:18
it's not going to win. It's a because I've said that'll
35:20
be. It'll win.
35:21
And you, Hannah. So initially after reading this
35:23
book, I, I found it really hard to decide what I would give it
35:28
as a rating out of five because yeah, there was times where it,
35:34
I found it a bit hard to read. And it's not because of the
35:37
content. I just found it maybe a bit
35:38
disjointed. But after this discussion and
35:45
the more we've talked about certain quotes and the depths of
35:47
the novel, I'm going to give it a three out of five.
35:52
So overall enjoyed the writing and I find it really striking at
35:59
times and the meaning of it really deep, which I really
36:02
liked. So yeah, definitely giving it a
36:04
three out of five. Do I think this book could win?
36:09
It's a potential. I definitely do see some people
36:12
picking it. But OK, sneakily, I have already
36:16
read the next book that we're going to talk about.
36:20
I really, really enjoyed that spoiler, so I'm already
36:24
comparing it to that. And for me, this one's a no.
36:28
But I can see why other people would want it to win.
36:31
The next book we're reading from the long list is On the
36:34
Greenwich Line by Shady Lewis. This is translated by Catherine
36:38
Halls and it's published by Hierony.
36:41
Check out our social media for our full reading schedule.
36:44
We're reading four more books before the winners and odds.
36:47
Read along and share your thoughts on Instagram at Bookies
36:49
Favorite Book Club and you can also e-mail us at
36:51
bookiesfavoritebookclub@gmail.com. Bear in mind that both times in
36:56
those addresses Favorite is spelt with AU.
36:59
We've got some bonus episodes coming too.
37:01
There are a couple of special interview episodes from the team
37:03
who brought you the novel Eden Shore, which has been long
37:06
listed for the Walter Scott Prize for Historical Fiction,
37:08
2026. Aaron and Lucy Applause Applause
37:11
have recently wrapped up their chapter by chapter read long of
37:14
that novel. They spoke with the author Ashin
37:16
Fagan, as well as the narrator of the audiobook and the artist
37:19
who worked on the book cover. We also have some bonus content
37:23
for this award examining last year's winner and we'll
37:25
hopefully be speaking with some people involved with the award,
37:28
so keep keep your eyes on our pages and socials.
37:31
Also, Aaron has just launched a new podcast in which he reads
37:34
book series to completion. Hannah is a guest star for the
37:38
first episode which was released last week.
37:41
They launched with On the Calculation of Volume, which was
37:44
also shortlisted for the International Booker Prize last
37:47
year. Check out the novel series
37:49
wherever you listen to podcasts. We've covered other award
37:53
winners and shortlists, including the Booker Prize.
37:55
Subscribe on whatever podcast platform you're listening on so
37:58
you don't miss the next episodes.
38:00
Thank you to our bookie for this novel.
38:01
I am Marty Balsales, who runs the publisher Heloise Press.
38:05
You can also find me Colin at C under score.
38:09
F under score writes on Instagram.
38:12
And you can find me at Books 26 books of this ad not Nest.
38:18
You can find me on Instagram at Certified Big Yapper Hannah.
38:21
Share this episode with the book lover you think will love this
38:24
book. Read the podcast. 5 stars and
38:26
let's end on a final quote from The Weasel and the Whore.
38:29
In order not to become a weasel, the only thing you can do is
38:33
love. The key.
38:37
Sound goodbye.