Latest / Success Story with Scott Clary / Mikhail Andersson - NYC's Most Wanted Tattoo Artist | From Broke Designer to $2,000/Hour Empire

Transcript

Mikhail Andersson - NYC's Most Wanted Tattoo Artist | From Broke Designer to $2,000/Hour Empire · Success Story with Scott Clary

• 0:00
  Back in the day when I started it wasn't many shops, tattoos were mostly criminal culture,
• 0:05
  a lot of gangs involved. When I got my neck tattooed, I would get stopped on a subway by old
• 0:09
  ladies, they're like, oh you're gonna go to hell. Some artists paint on canvas, others carve and
• 0:14
  stone. Mikail Anderson chose human skin as his medium. From Moscow streets to New York's art scene,
• 0:20
  he transformed tattooing into a form of high art, fusing realism, geometry, and surrealism.
• 0:25
  You have to take it slow. I feel like I did mistakes when I was trying to jump into something to do
• 0:30
  a realistic portrait when I've never done one. My perspective when I started it was no social media,
• 0:36
  some mentors that I had. They said, your work is your business card. Anything you put out there,
• 0:40
  it's your business card. I think the more kind of open-minded and more things you know,
• 0:46
  it's easier to adjust and to pivot from one to another. He creates work, it doesn't just decorate,
• 0:51
  it tells stories. At first class tattoos, he built more than a studio. He built a sanctuary
• 0:56
  wash where every line, every shade, every image is a transformation. This is Mikail Anderson.
• 1:02
  Being an artist, you need to see the world. The more art you see, the better stuff you create.
• 1:08
  If you make certain amount of money, you not to put eggs in one basket. I think sometimes like
• 1:13
  little steps is even better steps forward. In the long term, it's gonna be better.
• 1:22
  So, tell me about being a tattoo artist in Russia.
• 1:35
  So, back in the day when I started, it wasn't many shops. So it was very few shops and tattoos
• 1:41
  were mostly criminal culture. It was a lot of gangs involved. With the tattoos, it was
• 1:46
  biker culture. There was a lot of beautiful tattoos, but it was still not recognized
• 1:56
  as a job, as a profession in the country. So, there is no code for it. So, if you say your tattoo
• 2:02
  artist, everybody looks at you like what, really? Then they try to enforce actually a thing.
• 2:10
  Recently, they are trying to put it as a medical procedure and make people do certification,
• 2:15
  but it's so stupid. Yeah, for tattooing, it's like why? But when I started, it was like a taboo.
• 2:24
  People who have tattoos, a lot of people do have tattoos there, but I remember when I got my
• 2:29
  neck tattoo, I was like 2008 or something, and I would get stopped on a subway by old ladies.
• 2:35
  They're like, oh, you're gonna go to hell and stuff like that. I don't know where you're just
• 2:41
  taking a subway to commute and somebody will come to you and be like, what the fuck is that?
• 2:46
  They're like, who just put the green shit on your neck? Oh, they're like, oh, it's tattoo, wow.
• 2:52
  So, why did you, if it's obviously not part of Russian culture? It is, but it isn't at the same time.
• 2:58
  It's like counter-culture. So, I feel like the way you're describing it, it sounds like when you
• 3:03
  started tattooing in Russia, it just sounds like Russia was like maybe like 20 years behind the US
• 3:09
  in terms of like tattoo culture. Probably yes. So then the question is, where did the passion
• 3:15
  for tattooing come from? What you grew up with was gangs and all these other things that were
• 3:25
  kind of like affiliated with tattoos. What made you want to sort of get into this industry and
• 3:31
  build a career in it? So, after school, I actually went to college for a graphic design and we had
• 3:39
  a lot of art classes, but I was also, I was hanging out with people, there were writing motorcycles
• 3:45
  and we're into all this like heavy metal kind of culture, but I was young, but it was, it was
• 3:55
  something, I don't know, I was like, my family was very strict and I remember when I first got a
• 4:01
  piercing, I pierced my ear and I came home, my mom was like, my mom saw it right away when I came
• 4:05
  home, it was probably ninth grade in school and she was like, all right, if you don't take it out,
• 4:12
  you can just leave outside, she like packed my shit, did she put it outside and she was like,
• 4:18
  you have to take it out, but I was like, but the other, other people, other guys have it in my
• 4:23
  school, like why can't I have it? But she was like, no, like you cannot have longer hair than this,
• 4:29
  you cannot have any piercing. So you did the exact opposite of everything your parents wanted,
• 4:36
  do you find that when you go to graphic design school, are there things that you've actually
• 4:40
  learned from design school that really, really help you in your job or is there a lot that you
• 4:45
  had to forget to become a good artist? So we've actually had some stuff like marketing and we had a
• 4:50
  lot of things like business related, but it was back in the day when there was no social media,
• 4:56
  so we learned, we learned things that do not apply to know what they, whatever, whatever we're doing,
• 5:04
  but I think in general once you, like if the school is good or if the college is good,
• 5:09
  if you learn different aspects from different things, I think the more kind of
• 5:16
  open-minded and more things you know, it's easier to adjust and to pivot from one to another,
• 5:24
  because if they just teach you like a standard one thing and that's what you know and then when
• 5:29
  things break down and you just being stuck because you cannot adjust your brain to something else,
• 5:35
  I think that's a thing, but I mean, I think nowadays or in general you have to learn
• 5:42
  by yourself on your own, like you have to find what inspires you, who inspires you,
• 5:48
  and like I always tell it, I even have a book, but it's actually funny, I've never
• 5:54
  even thought about it, but I always know in my head that the best way to learn something that
• 6:01
  somebody did is just to copy, and I always said it like the masters that painted like Carvaggio
• 6:09
  and stuff like that that would make their apprentices to copy their pieces or parts of their
• 6:15
  pieces and copy and copy over and over, so they can figure it out how they did it and learn,
• 6:20
  and then once they have that base they can do something on their own, is that how you,
• 6:25
  is that how you learn? No, but I'm in general like I think it really applies to a lot of things,
• 6:30
  I tell my apprentices like if you have somebody you really admire as an artist, I was like take a
• 6:38
  piece and just try to draw the same, like exact the same, I mean you first can trace and then you
• 6:43
  can try to put a paper there and try to copy it without tracing, and once you're doing it you
• 6:49
  figure out like you think what they thought when they created it, and like you see the lines,
• 6:55
  you see how they try to balance things, and it kind of imprints in your brain, and then you more,
• 6:59
  the more you do the more you understand that style or how they did it, I think it's like a good
• 7:05
  thing, and the same with like anything, video photography, like find who you like and who you admire,
• 7:13
  and what inspires you, and then try to copy, try to figure out why, and how they did it I think
• 7:19
  it's like a good thing, like it's so interesting when it comes to creativity because the first time
• 7:24
  you do anything creative, it doesn't even matter how passionate you are about it, it's always
• 7:29
  going to suck, like it will always suck, like if you're a graphic designer or you're creating video
• 7:34
  content which is sort of my world, or if you're writing, or if you're actually drawing on someone's
• 7:40
  skin, like the first, oh I don't know, I don't know, you can tell me if the first version of
• 7:44
  you as a tattoo artist sucked, it's very unforgiving, but I think that for most creatives,
• 7:49
  the first version really is not great, and the only way to get great is through just doing it
• 7:54
  again and again and again and again, but you made a good point, like when you're drawing on someone's
• 8:01
  skin, you can't really do a do-over, so how do you get the confidence as a tattoo artist to say,
• 8:08
  okay I'm not just going to be tracing and drawing on paper, I'm going to take my skill set and
• 8:14
  I'm actually going to draw on someone's skin which is going to be with them for the rest of their
• 8:17
  life, like do you remember your first ever tattoo? Yes, I do, yeah, well I knew in my head that I
• 8:26
  cannot do anything complicated, so I started, and I forced my apprentices to do the same, I started
• 8:32
  doing just black and then knowing that I can fill it with a black, so like any designs when I
• 8:39
  started I would do black outline and make sure that I can fill inside the lines with a black
• 8:45
  too, so it's like symbols or something small, but not small because small you can still mess up
• 8:50
  the lines and they'll be crooked, but like mostly like black symbols that you can do outline and
• 8:55
  then you can fill it with a black, and then if the outline are crooked you can just fix the lines
• 9:00
  a little bit, so I was doing that for a while until I moved to something and I was doing more
• 9:07
  like traditional Japanese for a little while too because you just do lines and the designs are
• 9:15
  pretty bold and big, so it's easier than to do something intricate and complicated, but
• 9:24
  yeah I mean you have to take it slow because I feel like I did mistakes when I was trying to
• 9:28
  jump into something like to do a realistic portrait when I've never done one, like if someone's
• 9:34
  faith, yeah yeah, and then we all see those those turning into memes on social media, yeah, but
• 9:41
  that was before social media, I actually, I actually have a portrait on my on my leg that I
• 9:49
  lazered, but it was like the guy at a shop was like I've never done a portrait, but he did
• 9:53
  realistic stuff like roses, animals and stuff like that and he was like can I practice on you,
• 9:58
  so when you're in a tattoo shop you're like why not this stupid idea, but I mean now thank God
• 10:06
  we have synthetic skin and fake skin that you can actually practice, which doesn't feel exactly
• 10:13
  the same as a human skin, but you can practice on it and you can figure out the way you approach
• 10:19
  things and your skill and then you can tattoo after on the skin on actual human skin, but I make,
• 10:25
  if I have an apprentice, I make them tattoo synthetic skin for a while if it's like complicated
• 10:29
  designs so they can build into it, but yeah it is like a tricky thing because when I first started
• 10:37
  when you try to move into something different and I feel like I got recognized on social media when
• 10:44
  did something different with the tattooing because I was like oh let me actually do watercolor
• 10:51
  on the skin and that was that drew some attention like a lot of attention when I posted on social
• 10:57
  media because it was something different from most people and I was like oh I can do all these
• 11:01
  drips and like splatters as the color because tattoo before it's like what I have it's like should
• 11:09
  be lines as black lines and like stuff that is like structural right so you can see what it is but
• 11:17
  to put the color coming out of the lines and forming like a dripper some whatever like a wash how
• 11:23
  you do on the watercolor paper not many people were doing it was like very few maybe two three people
• 11:28
  and when I was like let me do something I mean it's scary you try and we do some different but
• 11:32
  when you do it and then you post on social media it gets a lot of attention and you get a lot of
• 11:38
  attention people are like wow because it is different how did you know so taking back to like when
• 11:45
  you're first starting out in Moscow and and it's still kind of taboo but obviously you you love what
• 11:50
  you do how did you know that tattooing was your calling how did you know that this is something that
• 11:54
  you wanted to do for the rest of your life was there a moment was it gradual was it when you came
• 12:00
  to the you like what was the thing that was like this is it I need to do this for the rest of my life
• 12:05
  I'm so passionate about this and I'm assuming it was difficult at the beginning to make money
• 12:09
  like I don't really have any money at the beginning really difficult for a few years actually I
• 12:13
  think I was doing more money when I was doing graphic design and I also did freelance graphic
• 12:20
  design I was making a lot because each single thing like a website or branding for for a company
• 12:26
  was like a thousand bucks that you make out of it and tattoos when when you started and there was
• 12:31
  no Facebook or Instagram or like social media it wasn't like you have to do a tattoo and then
• 12:38
  people only recommend you if they see it on somebody and people will come to or unless you have a
• 12:44
  website and then you cannot charge much money because you're just starting so I literally when I
• 12:51
  tattooed first half a year I think I asked people to cover supplies so I would just do something
• 12:56
  and just ask them to pay and cover supplies so I literally from making decent money I went into
• 13:02
  sleeping on air mattress because I couldn't afford much but I don't know like I I really was drawn by
• 13:11
  like I've been around tattoo artists back then and my I had a lot of tattoo artists friends
• 13:17
  that tattooed and I just love the energy I love the people that did it it was like
• 13:23
  it was different from corporate world I was I my parents were trying to push me to work in a corporate
• 13:29
  or work for a company and I did work for a company for a little bit but I I wanted that freedom of
• 13:35
  like making art on people and hanging out with interesting people you know because it was
• 13:41
  always in a tattoo shop so all kinds of people it's actors gangs drivers politicians all kinds
• 13:48
  of people in its stories it was it was really fun it was like almost a rock band on tour with like
• 13:56
  just people come together get drunk or go play with a strike ball or something or like
• 14:04
  and then do art at the same time and everybody had stories everybody traveled around and I don't
• 14:09
  know I was just drawn to it back then I didn't know that I would I'm gonna do it for rest of my life
• 14:16
  I just I don't know I was really it was something different and I wanted to literally live inside
• 14:24
  a tattoo shop I feel like first few years when I worked at a shop I was there every day like 24
• 14:29
  7 I just wanted to be around people I wanted to see what they do how they do it and it was it
• 14:35
  was amazing I think and even after the shop was closed when I was here in Florida we would go
• 14:41
  hang out together and like skateboard and do some stuff like people from a shop it was like
• 14:47
  almost a community how do you define good work or a good tattoo like what is your litmus test
• 14:53
  for quality outside of it just not looking good that's we all we've all seen back that dude
• 14:58
  but what is your quality you're sort of gauge I mean I think a lot of aspects from
• 15:07
  it should be well done that it's going to age well it should be placed correctly and be
• 15:14
  flowy with the body because every single place is different and like for example I have certain
• 15:20
  parts of the arm when I twist it or when I bend it's going to disturb whatever I place there
• 15:26
  so if we put in a portrait or putting something we have to place that it's not going to
• 15:31
  disturb in a place that is visible and there's a lot of things that come to mind that I've learned
• 15:38
  for example if you're tattooing face and there's a shadow side and a light side and your arm the
• 15:46
  same when the arm is completely down when the sun hits the arm this will be a light side and
• 15:51
  this will be a shadow side you don't want to put a shadow side of a portrait on the light side
• 15:56
  and put a light side of the opposite way because anytime somebody's going to wear the work
• 16:02
  it's still natural light hits it that way and if there's a shadow side and the light side is
• 16:07
  going to look a little weird it's better when the shadow side where the arms shadow side is
• 16:12
  and then it's like that it's little things that I don't know I don't keep in mind it's more natural
• 16:20
  because I've done it so many times but and I don't think about it physically but those things
• 16:26
  make sense it's like art and whatever is in the world everything has laws and physics to it I think
• 16:33
  are these are these sort of universal art rules or are these more specific to tattoo I mean there's
• 16:39
  all universal art rules and like things as a color theory I think it applies to painting tattoos
• 16:45
  all kinds of stuff but I I think tattoo looks good in my opinion that it's well designed it
• 16:54
  placed well and that it's going to age well for at least 10 years at least 10 years and when you
• 16:58
  say a tattoo is aging well I mean it's not fading it's not looking like how how older the tattoos on
• 17:04
  on your arms because they look good um everything's pretty old I mean those are probably eight years
• 17:13
  that's not bad for eight years yeah everything like I lost tattoo I've got in my leg was in 2020 so
• 17:20
  I think if tattoo is done well it should look really good and I in my opinion a good tattoo
• 17:27
  should be once you go closer to a person it should look good but once you also step far away
• 17:33
  you should recognize what it is like if I'm further than you are and I see what you have on your
• 17:40
  arm it shouldn't look like a mess I should see at least that it has some flow or what it is
• 17:46
  that you have that in my opinion is a good tattoo when I was looking up some of your some of your
• 17:52
  past work you had a test for quality and I'm sure it's if it still applies because you would
• 17:56
  mention that if you remove the color and it still works is black and white then that's a very
• 18:02
  good indicator of a good tattoo is that still the case yes especially especially for color tattoos
• 18:07
  I think the color tattoo should have value because a lot of people would tattoo all these colors
• 18:13
  even if it's a flower for example they would tattoo all these colors but it doesn't have enough
• 18:17
  contrast so there's not enough black or it doesn't even have to be black I have actually a rose
• 18:23
  tattooed on me and a guy didn't use any black on it I don't know why but the color theory and the color
• 18:28
  balance works so well that there is enough from the light tones to dark tones uh which I
• 18:35
  I think for any tattoo especially color tattoos black and white you see um it's values that are
• 18:42
  from black to your skin and a lot of black and gray people that tattoo black and gray they use
• 18:47
  the skin as the lightest tone and a black as a darkest tone so they use when the light tones are
• 18:52
  they just use your skin so it's a contrast like that but when people tattoo color some people
• 18:58
  make it look a little messy because they put if you turn it into black and white there's a lot
• 19:04
  of the same gray tone into the colors with not enough values to it so if you turn black and white
• 19:10
  it almost look like uh like a muted paper that put over like almost like what you have a carpet it's
• 19:18
  like all the same tones but there are different colors they'll be red or blue or something else but
• 19:23
  they're all the same and it just doesn't have enough contrast so that's that's an indicator of a
• 19:28
  bad tattoo in my opinion because if you look at a traditional there's skin as left as uh as a light
• 19:34
  tone and it's even if it's a one bold color but there's still skin between the line and the color
• 19:39
  contrast yeah so it gives it that huge contrast from color to the to the skin but a lot of people
• 19:47
  when they do realism or they do something uh with the colors they don't have it in their hat they don't
• 19:53
  keep it in their hat to be uh to keep those values so you need to think like design you I like
• 20:03
  put in a design and looking in a mirror to see it flipped so I could see the issues when uh design
• 20:09
  is unbalanced because when you see it with your eyes you kind of once you're working on it you're
• 20:17
  used to what you see so much then if you go to the mirror it flips it it forces you to see it
• 20:23
  differently it forces you to see it differently and it was actually interesting I was uh looking at
• 20:28
  some photographers and I think it was Cartier Busson somebody with a big name he like was reviewing
• 20:34
  somebody's portfolio and the guy was describing he brought him photos and he just put the photos upside
• 20:39
  down he just looks at photos and the guy was like why are you looking at photos upside down and he
• 20:44
  was like I'm just looking at light and balance with the shapes I'm I'm not looking at photos is in
• 20:49
  a normal way but I want to see if it's all composition and balance if it's upside down so it's like
• 20:56
  trick your eyes with you put something or you draw something on paper and you just go in a mirror
• 21:02
  and put it in front of the mirror and look at it and then you'll see mistakes or directional lines
• 21:08
  or dag on the lines or imbalance with like sometimes if there's too much on one side you have to
• 21:15
  balance it somewhere an opposite way so it kind of has like a counterbalance inner things
• 21:21
  this is so interesting so I've also what you're describing I've experienced in a different context
• 21:30
  so it's almost like when you're a creative and you spent too much time on a piece
• 21:35
  and I write a lot so sometimes I've noticed that when I write Sam writing on my laptop and and I want
• 21:43
  to publish a piece I don't know if it's similar or different maybe it's the same mechanism in the
• 21:49
  brain but I'll actually read it on a different screen or on a phone or on anywhere else or I'll read
• 21:55
  it the next day I'll read it somewhere else so that I can actually pay attention to the things
• 22:01
  for some reason when I'm actually creating it in that first the first version of it
• 22:07
  it's like your brain is trained to skip over the problems but if you find a way to consume it in
• 22:12
  another way mirror flipping it upside down sending it to yourself for me and like reading a piece
• 22:19
  on a on a phone as opposed to on a laptop all of a sudden your brain sees all these problems
• 22:24
  for the first time that there were always there you just couldn't see them so I think that that's
• 22:28
  an interesting thing is a creative because you get so involved in your work and I think that
• 22:32
  there must be some psychology reason why your brain passes over these flaws when you're staring
• 22:38
  right at them because you should see them but you don't and this is a way to force recognize
• 22:42
  the flaws in the work I think it's the same like what you said is the same in art and I think we
• 22:48
  basically would just get used to if we would see it at first time when there is mistakes it would
• 22:56
  it would bother us but if you give it to somebody and they would read it if they are professional
• 23:02
  in that field it would bother them like I had people in a shop that work with me they usually
• 23:09
  especially people who did apprenticeship with me and they work they would make a design and they
• 23:13
  kind of were like stuck with something and they bring it to me and me like just briefly seeing it
• 23:19
  I see all mistakes right away and I was like just move this a little bit to the left and make
• 23:23
  this a little bit bigger yeah that what you said I think it's exactly the same as like
• 23:30
  if you type it on a laptop you put on a phone and you read it from your phone or in a different
• 23:35
  environment you start seeing other mistakes or other things who do you study because you've
• 23:43
  mentioned that you study painters not like modern painters you study Renaissance painters traditional
• 23:49
  who do you study that sort of influences you teaches you and why as painters or I guess
• 23:58
  well you you tell me I mean do you study classical painters do you study Renaissance art work do
• 24:03
  study other tattoo artists like who is your I would say mentor that doesn't even know you
• 24:09
  exist who's the person that you study I like a couple tattoo artists that I always watch yes
• 24:14
  and I maybe they do know you exist but yeah yeah and I I think in in my world the thing is
• 24:21
  if you want to see how somebody works just go and get tattooed by them it's like it's like the
• 24:26
  easiest thing it's the same with probably you if you want to learn how somebody does a podcast
• 24:32
  just go and get up in the podcast with them and you'll see the whole exact setup you'll you'll
• 24:37
  see what they ask and how they approach things and this will be probably expensive but the
• 24:43
  quickest lesson for you because you don't have to sit and figure things out with a trial and
• 24:47
  error you go to somebody who is established and very good in their style and I guarantee you they
• 24:54
  did the same like I know people that are top they usually hang out around the top and they usually
• 25:00
  hang out around the people or hang out before or grab together or something else that do things
• 25:08
  really well in their style that's what it is you have to be you have to be around something like
• 25:15
  that because figuring things out by yourself it's going to take years and I think that's the easiest
• 25:22
  way but I do study a lot of different things and I like to be diverse I don't want to be stuck
• 25:29
  just in art and I've studied art history actually in college and I had to pass an exam on it
• 25:35
  from probably icon paintings and you know the interesting thing is like we have in a regular
• 25:43
  paintings we have perspective and we have to follow perspective in a icon paintings the perspective
• 25:49
  goes in you in a in a viewer in their solarplex so the icon paintings as considered after all this
• 25:59
  rock paintings when the people start painting religious stuff the all the perspective from the
• 26:07
  painting goes inside you as as yours is center and it's very interesting no but like a lot of people
• 26:12
  don't talk about it but it is like that can you explain that because I want to understand this
• 26:16
  so what do you mean by perspective so once you once you draw a cube right yes the the lines that
• 26:23
  is the the sides of the cube they go and they come together as a as a perspective because things
• 26:30
  as further they are they're smaller and they go like this but when there is icons of like saying
• 26:35
  so something else if you look at the perspective their perspective goes into center of you as they
• 26:41
  would think that this is the solarplex as the center of the universe so everything goes into you
• 26:47
  interesting yeah I've never not not a lot of people talk about it but it like I had to study
• 26:52
  classical art and from phases from to modern art to pop art to all this stuff and no exactly
• 26:59
  this was like around like so this this particular idea no no no no sorry I didn't mean when you
• 27:05
  study I mean this particular idea these would be paintings of like kings or religious leaders or
• 27:09
  things like that that would have this particular perspective yeah the perspective goes into you
• 27:14
  it's it's it's an interesting thing but then they switched to like how they see the world they
• 27:20
  would switch to the perspective as it goes like how we see with the eyes so you still I mean but
• 27:26
  when you study that when you study I first of all I think that art history is fascinating I don't
• 27:30
  know much I don't know much about it compared to to you obviously but when you study that does that
• 27:36
  impact like how you do your work does it do any of those themes actually cross over into modern day
• 27:43
  yeah of course but I don't think I've had it in in that deep but I've actually spoke or
• 27:51
  watched some seminars of like modern days like oil painters when they describe certain things like
• 27:58
  if they take the Renaissance painting and they just put it in Photoshop and the same with the
• 28:02
  with that black and white that I say but they would turn in and black and white the painting
• 28:07
  and then they would push the contrast to the max as possible right and they would say hey look the
• 28:14
  light shape frames everything is light and connected and the dark is almost all connected as well
• 28:22
  so if you push it so certain things once you study you start to understand how the contrast
• 28:30
  work how the light works and stuff like that it definitely helps with the tattooing and modern day
• 28:36
  tattooing even in any style I think do you think that okay so this is now fast forward to all the
• 28:43
  we're chatting with this for repressed record so now there's so many AI tools that help you
• 28:48
  create right and when the one issue with AI tools is of course for a graphic designer yes it could
• 28:55
  in theory replace their job but I made the comment for a tattoo artist I don't think that it's
• 29:00
  going to be replacing your job anytime soon unless there is some sort of automated device that
• 29:05
  can draw art on a human body without a human holding the pen or the uh but I think that
• 29:13
  the bigger issue is that the amount of knowledge that you have um I think that younger artists are
• 29:21
  going to outsource a lot of that learning to AI tools um I don't like for example somebody wants
• 29:29
  a tattoo do you see a younger artist going on like a chat GPT asking for a design they probably do
• 29:38
  and then yes can you trace that design but do they actually understand why that design is good
• 29:45
  I don't think that if they do that they'll know even a fraction of what you just told me
• 29:50
  I think the artists should know basics and should know the art history and composition and how
• 29:56
  the light works because I we actually do tattoo remove Photoshop and I just had it was actually
• 30:03
  funny the guy came in he just got a tattoo and it was a scorpion there was probably AI generated
• 30:10
  and it's been for a past maybe half a year to a year people would bring AI generated images
• 30:16
  as designs to get tattooed because they don't go on google and search hey I want a scorpion and
• 30:22
  find a photo of a scorpion they type in a chat GPT uh a scorpion tattoo and a chat GPT generates it
• 30:30
  but sometimes it generates it unrealistic so the guy came into an artist with the image and they
• 30:37
  tattooed it it was probably made in AI and one claw is different than another claw on a on a image
• 30:43
  and then the guy got tattooed super clean super nice and then he came home he looked at it he
• 30:48
  started googling and he didn't find exact scorpion he was like I've never seen scorpions like this
• 30:54
  and he was he came in and he was like hey I just got tattooed yesterday it was not in my shop
• 30:59
  he was like I just got a tattoo yesterday he was like I know you guys do laser he was like can we
• 31:04
  just laser this claw so like I mean like that yes so but the tattoo artist still
• 31:09
  but like is it is there no risk I like maybe you're gonna say well there you know if the client comes in
• 31:16
  with a drawing then we just do what the client wants but there has to be responsibility on the tattoo
• 31:21
  artist to be like okay maybe this isn't the best design yes it should be on everybody I feel like
• 31:28
  my perspective when I started it was no social media and what I've been taught by some mentors
• 31:35
  that I had they said your work is your business card you tattoo on somebody if I walk around and
• 31:41
  you see this and you're like oh my god holy shit this is amazing you're gonna be like hey who did
• 31:46
  it and I was actually flying to here and I saw lady in the airport with a tattoo and I knew who
• 31:52
  did the tattoo because some styles are recognizable and some people do specifically like I knew exactly
• 31:57
  who did her sleeve and the girl worked for me before I didn't say anything I didn't interact but
• 32:02
  you go especially now when it's warm you go and you see something amazing you're like holy
• 32:08
  shit who did it even if you don't want to get that tattoo but it might catch your interest so I
• 32:14
  think anything you put out there especially tattoos because it's hard to erase it's your business
• 32:19
  card at my business card and if somebody comes in there like hey this is an AI generated image or
• 32:25
  if there is especially with AI it has issues with hands I don't know why yeah so it's always
• 32:32
  six fingers always so if somebody comes with the image and I mean if I put it on somebody even if
• 32:41
  the person likes it what if other people are going to make fun of it and then the person just
• 32:45
  going to have a trauma you know and because of what I did on them do you turn people away
• 32:51
  no I try to suggest of to do something different I think it should be like a tattoo artist should
• 33:00
  be very good at psychology and they should be very well with the clients try to make them feel
• 33:05
  comfortable and understand if there's something that needs to be bigger if something needs to be
• 33:09
  changed I think the clients should see that perspective and tattoo artist should take time and
• 33:14
  show them or have some examples and show like hey this is not going to work because what you see
• 33:22
  online especially now with all this editing tools photoshop and all other stuff is sometimes it's
• 33:29
  not the same as what you see in person so a lot of people should be careful nowadays because
• 33:35
  things get suggested and then I've seen tattoo artists even post their work that never been done
• 33:41
  and they just throw Mike Tyson portrait and Chad GPT put there can you do this as a tattoo
• 33:48
  Chad GPT generates the image and then they post it on their social media saying hey I just
• 33:52
  tattooed that and it looks it looks real unless you zoom in and you don't see the lines it's too
• 33:59
  it's too real to be true like tattoo that's just that's just fake yeah that's fake but they
• 34:06
  uh for since the whole thing started with AI some people were keep doing it and they gain
• 34:12
  clients out of it but I I feel like more it goes on more people start realizing and they start
• 34:19
  doing research because there's things like reddit and all kinds of stuff when people post actual
• 34:25
  things and the more information is there or I would trust somebody like I said like I go to the
• 34:30
  gym and I see somebody's tattoo and I'm like wow and it's healed and I'm like wow I want a tattoo
• 34:35
  like that that's the person I would go to because I know I've seen something that I like and I
• 34:42
  want something similar instead of going into somebody's Instagram and seeing all these pictures
• 34:48
  that they tattooed but they can also use Photoshop or AI generative tools to clean it up and
• 34:54
  do all kinds of stuff to it which I think is going to turn more into stuff like that but I mean
• 35:02
  AI to be honest with you is great tool I feel like it helps to save time during the research
• 35:09
  so sometimes you need to put different things together and the client will come with like a huge
• 35:13
  concept and instead of just doing a research on your own and searching like some historical things
• 35:21
  I've had a client that came in he was like I want to have a battle that there's no photos or
• 35:26
  drawings from the battle from like between Irish and German from like whatever World War One
• 35:31
  and there's no no photos but he was like I want Germans to wear when it was World War One
• 35:37
  but it which was a small part somewhere that they fought and the same with the Irish and I
• 35:43
  just threw it in the AI and the AI helped to like generate and do research good for researchers
• 35:48
  with certain things and the same with like creating a concept if you're saying some people will come
• 35:53
  and be like hey I want like something as a mix like a stingray floating in a outer space or whatever
• 36:00
  I mean I can I can do it myself I've done things like that but I'm just saying for people that
• 36:06
  by having a hard time visualizing it or like you have an idea but you have a hard time you can type
• 36:11
  in me journey in different versions and see what it generates and I've seen photographers do it
• 36:17
  for concepts they just say hey I want a photo of beautiful woman as a renaissance painting
• 36:25
  standing in front of the castle with like this and this and this and this yellow dress and dress
• 36:30
  floating they put all these tags and it creates the concept with the light even you don't like the
• 36:35
  light but you can take the concept and then you can go to a costume designer and say hey can you
• 36:40
  make me something similar inspired by this as a dress and then you look for locations you start
• 36:46
  looking and you look for the light similar inspired on that and then you create your own you don't
• 36:52
  have to copy anything that AI generates but it it helps it's a tool and the same with marketing I
• 36:58
  think like you can I was flying on a plane I see people type like what's the I don't know the guy
• 37:04
  was doing some business and he was like typing what's the most unemployment states and he puts all
• 37:09
  this things together using AI like super quick for his company and I was like well I mean do research
• 37:15
  by yourself using google and reading articles it's harder versus you type it there and it
• 37:20
  net suite is a success story partner now what is the future hole for business if you ask nine
• 37:25
  experts you're going to get 10 answers bull market bear market interest rates are rising they're
• 37:29
  falling honestly at the end of the day we just need a crystal ball but until then over 42,000
• 37:34
  businesses have trusted and future proof themselves with net suite by Oracle the number one cloud
• 37:40
  ERP bringing accounting financial management inventory and HR into one cohesive platform with one
• 37:46
  unified business management suite there's one source of truth giving you the visibility and
• 37:51
  control that you need to make quick decisions with real time insights and forecasting you're pairing
• 37:55
  into the future with actionable data and when you're closing the books in days not weeks you're
• 38:00
  spending less time looking backwards and more time on what's next if I needed this kind of business
• 38:05
  management system net suite is exactly what I do so whether or not your company is earning millions
• 38:10
  or even hundreds of millions net suite helps you respond to immediate challenges in your business
• 38:14
  and sees your biggest opportunities and speaking of opportunity you have to download the CFO's guide
• 38:19
  AI and machine learning the guide is free for all listeners that's net suite dot com slash
• 38:24
  Scott clary indeed is a success story partner now say you just realized your business needed to
• 38:30
  hire someone fast how can you find amazing candidates fast it's easy just use indeed when it comes
• 38:35
  to hiring indeed is all you need stop struggling to get your job posts seen on other job sites
• 38:40
  indeed sponsor jobs helps you stand out and hire fast and with sponsor jobs your post jumps to
• 38:46
  the top of the page for your relevant candidates so you can reach the people you want faster and it
• 38:51
  makes a huge difference according to indeed data sponsor jobs posted directly on indeed have 45
• 38:57
  percent more applications than non sponsor jobs plus with indeed sponsor jobs there's no
• 39:02
  monthly subscription no long term contracts you only pay for results there's no need to wait any
• 39:08
  longer speed up your hiring right now with indeed and listeners of this show will get a 75 dollar
• 39:13
  sponsor job credit to get your jobs more visibility just go to indeed dot com slash clary right now
• 39:20
  and support our show by saying you heard about indeed on this podcast indeed dot com slash clary
• 39:26
  terms and conditions apply if you're hiring indeed is all you need when did you start making money
• 39:32
  and also what was the thing that differentiated you or what was your what was the thing that you did
• 39:38
  that allowed you to make exceptionally more money at tattooing than the average artist so
• 39:45
  I feel like when I um after probably a year year and a half I started making some money
• 39:52
  Moscow in Moscow yes um probably two two about two years that I was being able to pay for my bills
• 40:00
  and put money in a savings and there was still no social media um but I wanted to spend money
• 40:07
  as traveling that was my biggest goal because I feel like being an artist you need to see the world
• 40:14
  you need to experience things and the more how I said the more soulful you are the more art you see
• 40:23
  the more different people from different countries you meet the better stuff you create so I was
• 40:29
  literally working to save the money to see other countries or go to other shops and learn
• 40:35
  live as much as possible and it was like my biggest goal um and then I feel like
• 40:43
  I started making decent amount of money when I moved from Florida to New York actually because
• 40:48
  New York was a turning point when I moved to New York the Instagram became as a thing and people
• 40:56
  started using Instagram as posting their portfolio and building their clients out and it was
• 41:02
  basically when it just started but um I remember a few times when I got reposted by uh big
• 41:08
  publics and I would get like ten thousand overnight just for tattoo I did and it was insane that I
• 41:17
  did something different somebody reposted it and all of a sudden my email is full I would get
• 41:24
  ten fifteen emails overnight and a day and it was it was like a ball rolling you know once you
• 41:30
  once you do something different once you hit a point then you all of a sudden have all these
• 41:35
  bookings because when I was here in Florida um so you went you went Moscow Florida first that was
• 41:42
  the first spot that you landed after I mean I was in New York first I for me when I first
• 41:47
  started traveling I went to Europe a lot I've been to Europe so much to different countries of course
• 41:52
  but not living not not living I stayed in Germany for like three months but I I've had friends there
• 41:57
  and been to Spain to Finland Sweden Norway all kinds of stuff but um I came to New York first because
• 42:05
  for me was like oh let's come to states and just by supplies and see the shops it wasn't I didn't
• 42:11
  want to stay here but I wanted to meet other artists and experience things and see how the shops
• 42:16
  are because in Russia shops were way different than here like here was actually some shops in
• 42:22
  Vegas or Miami it was like a parlor where people already had iPads as portfolios TVs it was like
• 42:30
  a sarabuth oh you said in Russia wasn't even a business yeah for for each thing and it was lines
• 42:36
  of people but it was because first I think Miami ink brought a lot of attention to a thing and
• 42:43
  it was when it was on a national TV and then it was distributed to the world people saw it I think
• 42:49
  that draw a lot of attention and back when I was in Florida Florida actually Miami was a number one
• 42:55
  city in the states or maybe in the world for the popularity of tattoo really yes I didn't know that
• 43:01
  so probably because of the show I'm assuming yes of the show and people who fly from South America we
• 43:06
  had people that would fly and when they got tattooed they're like oh my god it's like in Miami
• 43:11
  ink show like so many people said they're coming when I was tattooing them uh when you create
• 43:16
  something and like I watched the show but I I didn't watch everything because I didn't have time
• 43:21
  back then and uh when you're tattooing they're like oh it's like he's doing almost like they did on
• 43:26
  a show and it was like so interesting to see that but we had lines out of the door like I would make
• 43:33
  it was crazy because I would make like thousand dollars in tips back then and you were at this point
• 43:38
  this is not your own shop no no I was working with somebody but you like hustling all day and you
• 43:43
  working the shops was open like first we're open till certain time and then they decided to even
• 43:48
  keep it open all night too and you're like slam with clients you're like six seven ten tattoos a day
• 43:55
  and you keep doing it it was like tourists coming in people from all over the place
• 44:00
  which eventually oversaturated the market but um because people saw opportunity how it is and
• 44:07
  then everybody started opening shops here there's money yeah yeah and then it's it's like boom nobody
• 44:12
  has work everybody's like oh what's going on but um I mean I feel like New York was a turning
• 44:20
  point for me when I when I moved there and when the Instagram became a popular thing especially
• 44:27
  for tattoo artist it was a tool almost photographers and uh tattoo artist it's like a wall where you
• 44:34
  put your work and people can scroll and see or because website is one thing if somebody types
• 44:41
  uh tattoo artist in New York there's shits on a website that pay pay for ads google ads
• 44:46
  CEO like all that kind of stuff that pop up and if you make a website even you put the words there
• 44:51
  you're not going to come up on the first three four five pages nobody's going to find you but
• 44:55
  Instagram was like uh you post and you can get there from just one posting one work and I remember
• 45:03
  when I've had um it was probably one work just made me like really a lot of clients overnight I've
• 45:13
  start getting emails because I did some different than people are doing there and it was um
• 45:21
  it was like a bull roll and it started and I I have to keep going with it you know
• 45:25
  when did you open your own shops so this was first class uh tattoo yeah the shop I um
• 45:30
  I opened in 2016 I worked this was on Canal Street so when I when I first got the spot it was a
• 45:36
  cheaper rent because the area was basically all Chinese stores and it was warehouses there
• 45:42
  and I was looking for area that I can't afford myself even if nobody works for me if I work I
• 45:48
  can pay that rent a month and I still make money so that's why I got the shop there but
• 45:54
  then other people that own buildings they saw opportunity they're like oh the guy got a shop
• 46:00
  and there's people coming in and wealthy people coming in they were like instead of having their
• 46:05
  own store downstairs they're like I can rent this space to somebody else and they start renting
• 46:10
  space so it's almost became gentrified so you started the gentrification of Canal Street yeah
• 46:15
  pretty much so now that area is so much different that people who live there they know what I'm
• 46:22
  talking about people who just moved or never been to that area they don't they probably wouldn't say
• 46:28
  but I was one of the first businesses they changed and then also they built a hotel which
• 46:32
  was a place there was the first Chinese bank which is a nine orchard but for first I think five
• 46:38
  six years it was still in the construction it was all stuff there but now it's an open hotel and
• 46:43
  it's a lot of celebrities that come there and it's all like black cars and SUVs all over around
• 46:48
  because like I bump into Kylie Jenner I by bump into Jared Leto staying in the hotel it's all
• 46:54
  celebrities staying there and it's literally next door for us like literally next that's so
• 46:58
  funny so you so you were the first shop and then everything started to change and it it became like
• 47:03
  people would see opportunity they would open a coffee shop here coffee shop there I think four
• 47:08
  coffee shops opened in the last 10 years literally and it like floods the people there and people
• 47:15
  start renting spaces and this is all good for everyone whole orchard street like a street when
• 47:20
  you walk from my shop before 2020 it was all like shitty kind of small dirty stores because the whole
• 47:28
  area before it was Jewish like Hasidic Jews owned it and then they saw opportunity I've even had
• 47:33
  people like Hasidics would come to me and they're like hey do you want to open another store we
• 47:38
  see how successful you are they almost wanted to sell me a building there in orchard street they
• 47:42
  came in there like we'll sell your building for a million dollars you can put whatever you want
• 47:47
  there because for them they would have their own store and they would rent apartments but
• 47:54
  it's a lot of work but once if they rent it for somebody you have to take care of space you
• 47:59
  like take care of old maintenance and you attract also a lot more and they don't have to do anything
• 48:05
  they just make money so they want it like successful things so last four or five years all that
• 48:10
  stuff became like a completely different area that it was and I feel like me and maybe that hotel
• 48:16
  kind of people saw in the rent is cheaper because lower side was always more expensive rent I was
• 48:23
  looking for stuff there and when I when I went there I was like they started from 10 grand
• 48:31
  and up 10 years ago it was literally like 10 grand for like small space and it would go up how much
• 48:37
  is it now I don't know which in area where I had the store it was like five and up it was much
• 48:43
  cheaper but nobody wanted to rent there because there's nothing around because when I first
• 48:48
  signed a lease I would go and look for like a coffee or tea I got a store it was literally a sign
• 48:54
  was in Chinese I go inside and I was like can I get this and I like no no no speaking English
• 48:59
  and I was like okay it was like everywhere like that but now it's a completely different area
• 49:03
  but people who live there they would know what I'm talking about so I think sometimes you make
• 49:12
  something successful and like people around they see okay there's different class different
• 49:16
  people come in there and they're like maybe we can open businesses there too well so just to
• 49:21
  paint a picture people that are listening like again we're talking a lot about obviously tattoos
• 49:26
  and the tattoo industry but as an entrepreneur so you you spent how many years before you actually
• 49:32
  started to build your own thing like how many years have you actually done the math like how long
• 49:36
  you were like working mastering your craft putting in the reps before you actually built something
• 49:41
  successfully that was your own almost ten years almost ten years not like nine years probably yeah
• 49:47
  and when you did make that jump because now I know a little bit more because again we're talking
• 49:50
  about some of the other things that you you're you're working on you're actually very risked
• 49:57
  so I think you're very smart you do things very thoughtfully which I think is probably why you're
• 50:03
  successful at it but when you start something new even like some of this after you're working on
• 50:08
  right now like some of this sort of the not side hustle that's putting it lightly but like some of
• 50:12
  the other projects that you're working on you don't just you don't just completely forget about
• 50:18
  the main thing and then start something new you keep the main thing going and then you build something
• 50:23
  on the side kind of like and I'm curious how you actually started like your first shop you're
• 50:28
  working you're saving money you're learning and then you start the shop but you did it successfully
• 50:34
  so was it starting the shop while you're still working or did you save up a certain amount of money
• 50:39
  or did you understand how long it was going to take you to be successful at building your own company
• 50:43
  and like that's how you sort of modeled out how much money you needed in the bank or how did you
• 50:47
  actually start as this like that's the first time you're I was working yes yeah okay and I was
• 50:53
  building a shop as far as I was building I started researching just how to name it the brand and
• 51:01
  all this stuff I mean now there's more tools as far for AI to do all this stuff but I was just
• 51:07
  doing that on my own and like thinking in my head what will be successful and doing a website
• 51:13
  and at the same time I was working literally like every day and I was looking for spaces I would
• 51:18
  meet the brokers in the morning look at spaces see how much it cost and it was it was scary
• 51:24
  because I've had money in a bank I saved up probably a hundred K before I signed a lease
• 51:32
  and it's not much money to open a business but for me when you when you when you work for somebody
• 51:37
  back then it was a lot of money and when I got the place I didn't even have like I had
• 51:46
  ID in mind I put it kind of like I want black and gold as like design inside and stuff like that
• 51:51
  because the broker also when they rent a commercial lease and you never had a physical store or
• 51:57
  something like that they're looking at you oh you're gonna rent you're gonna fail so they're like
• 52:02
  oh can you send us PDF of what the concept is gonna be what the colors are gonna be what in terms of
• 52:08
  like the business plan yeah like a whole business plan even if it's just a small store
• 52:14
  so I've had to do all of that and I was tattooing it at the same time so it was it was like that
• 52:21
  and then when I first signed the lease I've had people doing constructions which was also bumps
• 52:27
  because I got a place and I was like what I'm actually gonna do with it because I was like you
• 52:34
  know let me do a research and find somebody who can put a design together I mean I have a concept
• 52:40
  but I actually need a designer because if somebody wants to build they want to see references
• 52:44
  and stuff like that so I start calling people and they're like well we're gonna charge like
• 52:50
  $40-$50,000 just to put a design together and rendering and I was like well it's like half of
• 52:55
  the money I have I was like no so like I asked the company that assigned me the place that gave
• 53:03
  me the lease I always like do know any construction workers so they gave me people and I was like okay
• 53:09
  talk to them what I want and I was trying to do like a cosmetic things and price was okay he
• 53:16
  was like I'm gonna charge you whatever 5,000 a week or like something without the materials for
• 53:22
  labor and me because I was working and I wasn't there a whole time when he started doing it they
• 53:31
  took another two projects on a side and they they would just literally work there a little bit
• 53:36
  and go somewhere else and work there which few times I took a break from work and I went there
• 53:41
  and I noticed nobody's there so we turned into a whole issue and I had to hire somebody else to do
• 53:46
  it because like those people they said oh we're gonna finish in a month or two whatever
• 53:50
  and they kept dragging it out to work with your project and they keep pushing and just doing
• 53:54
  like basic stuff that was taken forever because they took other two other jobs so I had to control
• 54:00
  that but I found other people that would do it and then I started based on the concept I started
• 54:05
  just looking online what I can buy in terms of furniture that would fit with the style because I
• 54:11
  was like I cannot afford somebody to put me like a list of what to buy and stuff together for like
• 54:17
  20 30 thousand dollars so you have to bring people over you you start doing the tattoos in your own
• 54:22
  shop now you're making a hundred percent of what they pay you which is great be I don't what are
• 54:27
  the what are the normal splits like when you work in a shop so back when I worked it was 50 50
• 54:32
  and now it turned more of like people doing 40 60 so it's paid more the the artist pays more
• 54:39
  okay so we're like some shops in California Florida probably
• 54:44
  certain shops chair rental a month or certain shops are like 70 30 70 to artist and 30 to the shop
• 54:50
  when New York because of the expensive costs it's very hard because here if I rent a space or buy
• 54:56
  space it's way less money than in New York for like for every every single thing for expenses
• 55:03
  but it is like a norm of like 60 40 split for 60 to the artist 40 to the shop
• 55:11
  and I also had people in mind that I work with before one guy was an apprentice another was a
• 55:16
  friend of mine that came to states a few times and he said if I open a business he'll come and join
• 55:21
  so I've had some people that had like an interest to come but it was mostly me just working and I
• 55:27
  remember when I first started a lot of things in terms of marketing was trial and error because
• 55:33
  like you have a store you you did a sign outside right but how to bring the people in like I put
• 55:39
  the Google ads I put the money into it yeah I put it in Instagram and then certain things came
• 55:47
  as like nobody was doing videos and I customary challenged to me which was a videographer and she
• 55:53
  was like I want to do a tattoo in exchange for a video and I was like sure and I was one of the first
• 55:58
  I think people first tattoo artist that ever posted a video of like an actual video not just a clip
• 56:03
  with a phone of like professional camera video shot on a professional cameras to post of the whole
• 56:09
  tattoo shop in a process and it brought a lot of attention because the person I worked for before
• 56:15
  actually after I posted a video he got pissed and he sent me a message because when I left he
• 56:21
  was like I'm happy for you like you did your own blah blah blah but when I did a video and I got a
• 56:25
  lot of attention on social media he sent me an angry message he was like oh fuck you like blah blah
• 56:32
  because nobody did it before I know I was the first person whoever did he ever try and sue you for
• 56:37
  anything no they actually stole an artist from you that was my apprentice but it's okay what was
• 56:44
  sort of like the the lowest moment or the one thing that was really something you had to go
• 56:51
  through as an entrepreneur that you hope nobody else would ever have to go through when you were
• 56:55
  building your shop I think the first worst moment when I actually had a few people working for me
• 57:02
  in the manager that was probably a really like a best manager but they started building in business
• 57:11
  outs out of my business but like what I did to somebody that I worked before they had a much
• 57:17
  bigger business that I have and when I left it didn't affect them but for me like if I hire
• 57:22
  three people and three people leave and there's only four people working for me that was like a big
• 57:28
  thing because they took a whole client base and they did that yeah and they and went and opened a
• 57:33
  space and took the best manager out of three managers I had they took a general manager and they
• 57:38
  took them to work for them because they offered her a commission or something more money that I
• 57:43
  was paying her and it was really that was like one of the first painful thing that happened to me
• 57:50
  and then certain other things like I hate to bring it up but I've had it happen multiple times
• 57:57
  when people make relationships inside the business like I would hire it's like multiple people
• 58:02
  working there like nine people but then somebody is like start dating somebody and then potentially
• 58:10
  concerning to a drama which few times happened that was like always a red flag for me always
• 58:17
  always an issue and then I feel like another thing we don't see ourselves from the outside right
• 58:27
  but if I would come here and I would be wearing like a medical stuff you would assume I'm a doctor
• 58:32
  right it's like cold power of authority so once you become somebody if I'm a boss people take me
• 58:38
  a different way so I felt like when I've had a few celebrity clients and I got a little bit of
• 58:44
  popularity some people come into the life just to try to use you but you don't see that way because
• 58:52
  you don't like I haven't had experience with that before like everybody that I consider that
• 58:58
  was wants to hang out or talk like personal things I consider as a friend but people were trying
• 59:03
  to use just to gain something for their personal stuff for their interest so it was a lot of those
• 59:11
  and I feel like my my last marriage was the same too because the I mean it's sad to say but the person
• 59:20
  came into the life when was working for somebody and like I built build the person up and she learned
• 59:25
  so much from me and is doing same things that's what I taught you heard like that's what I see
• 59:33
  through all the posts even if after we're broken up and all that stuff I'm sorry it's okay but it's
• 59:38
  like I've never experienced that in you I guess you learn a hard way with like walking with
• 59:46
  somebody that presents themselves as a different person they but they just try to use you in their
• 59:50
  advantage just to kind of I think it happens whenever you start to like build a little bit of
• 59:56
  fame or notoriety or you hang out with cool people it's weird it's a weird feeling I mean it's a
• 1:00:01
  very like listen it usually means that you're very fortunate and that you you know you built a great
• 1:00:06
  you built something that people actually admire because if not they wouldn't try and
• 1:00:11
  use you I noticed it sometimes with the podcast too because I get to introduce some very cool people
• 1:00:17
  so you just have to you know you just have to make sure that friendships are like honest and
• 1:00:23
  they're actually friends and yeah but I totally understand where you're coming from no but I think
• 1:00:29
  you need to be like I've had like I didn't have experience with it but now I have and I look at
• 1:00:36
  things nobody has experienced with that before the first time they have it like nobody has the
• 1:00:40
  experience of somebody using them before it happens the first time yeah for sure now fast forward
• 1:00:46
  to sort of where you're at now what are you doing to reinvent yourself now like what are you
• 1:00:51
  excited about what are you working on what are you sort of outside of just running the actual shop
• 1:00:58
  which is still obviously killing it but how do you keep reinventing so that you stay relevant you
• 1:01:04
  stay new you stay exciting well at the moment I'm basically I try to build in your business because
• 1:01:13
  I feel like and it's been always on my mind too when I've heard some people speak they say don't
• 1:01:18
  put all eggs in one basket and stuff like that I think entrepreneurship as a thing it comes to
• 1:01:26
  like this is the only country I think in the world where you can be financially free and you can
• 1:01:32
  build that as your future like you can make enough money that you can buy real estate or invest
• 1:01:38
  money somewhere where the money is can eventually be working for you and that's that's building
• 1:01:43
  on true well that's the ultimate goal and people that don't understand it they probably working for
• 1:01:49
  somebody or I mean you can work for somebody but I think in the future what what changed my mind
• 1:01:57
  when I said before about the surgery and stuff when you don't work you need something that will
• 1:02:03
  work for you because everything costs money everything is expensive anywhere you go like now in
• 1:02:09
  New York you go outside 100 bucks is gone or like three hundred bucks is how much better yeah yeah
• 1:02:14
  and if you just exchange in your hours into the money but what if you cannot what if something
• 1:02:22
  happens if you get sick or you're disabled you got a car accident which happened to like I
• 1:02:27
  hear stories like that because I have a lot of clients and clients are like hey I just got in a
• 1:02:31
  car accident I cannot hear like my I'm paralyzed or something else but if you're just working a
• 1:02:38
  job at a computer writing something or doing something exchanging you hours for the money what if
• 1:02:43
  you cannot do that tomorrow I think this is like everybody should learn and figure out how to make
• 1:02:51
  money outside of their job and figure out where they can invest or where they can do when the
• 1:02:56
  money is working for them and I've been even before I open a business I've been I've had an idea
• 1:03:03
  that are don't put eggs in one basket you need to have different sources of income and I have
• 1:03:09
  a little source of like a real estate and stuff like that where I put the money and it's passive
• 1:03:14
  income I don't put much unless something happens if a major thing happens like the roof's
• 1:03:19
  lid off of a house or something else like you need to put a lot of money into but you actually
• 1:03:23
  you own real like you've purchased real estate you get somebody to manage it for you or no I do
• 1:03:27
  myself but but it's better to get somebody managed like the ultimate goal to automate things
• 1:03:34
  that work for you they you don't have to work and that's like I think a lot of people should
• 1:03:41
  think that way and the same with like the industry if something is hot if you made something successful
• 1:03:48
  you cannot just be stuck with it because in five years or four years the economy can change people's
• 1:03:54
  mind can change everything's so dynamic that when I said in the beginning I said when I started
• 1:04:00
  marketing there was no social media and we started marketing as like doing a research sending
• 1:04:06
  mail or putting putting things as billboard and putting things on a billboard that's what I would
• 1:04:11
  learn but now it's completely different completely different animal and I think growing yourself
• 1:04:16
  in different directions helps with the business helps with the being diverse because sometimes like
• 1:04:23
  you literally have to pivot like companies think about company like Nokia it was a huge company with
• 1:04:28
  the phones but why they don't make phones anymore where the phones because I phone took over because
• 1:04:34
  they didn't want to adopt and create something different because maybe it was too much structure in
• 1:04:40
  a company and they couldn't agree to slow yeah move too slow whatever but billion dollars companies
• 1:04:46
  just like sometimes they vanish blockbuster that's so many things I mean you can bring up so many things
• 1:04:53
  like that but you have to pivot and if you made certain amount of money you need not to put eggs in
• 1:04:59
  one basket because if you if you sleep and fall those those eggs are all gonna break you need to put
• 1:05:04
  money in different things that eventually those things will work for you I think that
• 1:05:10
  this is the only country that allows you to do because where I'm from a lot of things controlled
• 1:05:16
  by the government a lot of things like if I go and open a business in Russia I mean I can be
• 1:05:21
  an interpreter to a certain point unless I hit it unless I make like two three million dollars
• 1:05:26
  and then the government gets involved that's not even by entrepreneurship it's not even a lot of money
• 1:05:31
  I mean like in the US I mean like yeah you cannot buy it's like a studio apartment in New York City
• 1:05:39
  as a million dollars it's insane so but in Europe or all other countries because they're small
• 1:05:46
  and they're so controlled by the government like if you make that money it's okay but if you make
• 1:05:51
  more the government is gonna come and be like hey you work for us now especially Russia like
• 1:05:57
  Russia is like that if you if you open a business and a business is popping and making a lot of
• 1:06:01
  money at a certain point the government is gonna be like hey you cannot own this business you're
• 1:06:06
  gonna work for us because for them if you gain so much popularity or something else you can
• 1:06:11
  overthrow the government to have some influence on people and they cannot allow that so this is
• 1:06:15
  what this is what happened with with Jack Ma and and and like the like the CCP or like the people's
• 1:06:22
  Republic of China right like that's like he was billionaire and he was too outspoken and they
• 1:06:28
  didn't like that and then he disappeared for a little while and then he came back and all of a sudden
• 1:06:34
  he's not so outspoken anymore so I get it like I think that I also think that you know we have to be
• 1:06:40
  very like we're so we're so blessed to have the opportunity that we have in the US and like the
• 1:06:47
  fact that you can really just do whatever you want to any significant degree as long as it's
• 1:06:52
  legal you can build whatever you want you can make any decision you want you can you can create
• 1:06:57
  businesses that have never existed before you can quit your job you can do whatever yeah for sure
• 1:07:02
  and it's just it's like it really is a blessing I think that people sometimes forget how the rest
• 1:07:06
  of the world works but um yeah I've been um so I've had some investments in the production equipment
• 1:07:15
  and stuff like that and it was basically you're in the photography as well yeah I started doing
• 1:07:20
  photos because I've had a base of photography in a college when I studied and then I took the
• 1:07:27
  different path but then I think 2020 when we're closed for I think it was four months or five
• 1:07:33
  months we're closed I started kind of watching YouTube videos because everything became so
• 1:07:39
  content related right so it's like let me watch some YouTube of how to make videos how to make
• 1:07:44
  some content because before I would hire people and I paid people a lot of money to do some stuff
• 1:07:50
  so it was like a thousand dollars for a video for one small video um and then I was like what if I buy
• 1:07:56
  a camera and just learn some stuff and start doing it myself just for a shop related and there's more
• 1:08:02
  as I got into it more I dove in into learning about it and like I feel like if you want to become
• 1:08:09
  good you have to get inside the industry to be good like yeah you can't just get a small camera
• 1:08:14
  and be like okay you're good but I always I always raised the bar I always um compare myself and I
• 1:08:22
  see somebody who's doing it better I was like okay how did they actually did it so I started
• 1:08:26
  watching all this um watching YouTube videos about videography and content creation and even
• 1:08:36
  like I don't want to mention but I did a I did a course for my ex which was initial I wanted to
• 1:08:41
  make a course into tattooing and running a business as a tattoo shop which was idea in 2020 but
• 1:08:47
  I did as a trial something for somebody else just as a course and it worked really well and we
• 1:08:55
  posted it online and she was making sales like a couple hundred bucks a month just out of like a
• 1:09:03
  small short course but um it was for me like a learning path and then I kind of dove more into it
• 1:09:09
  because everything is more content created creation and then you post on social media and you're like
• 1:09:15
  buying all this equipment and doing all this stuff so eventually I was like oh how do I actually
• 1:09:21
  I want to have something so cinematic I was like how do I actually get that so I purchased like an
• 1:09:26
  expensive camera um and kind of got more and more interest into it within the last five years
• 1:09:33
  and now you have one of the like now you have a massive collection of lenses too yeah this is not
• 1:09:39
  like you're you're putting it very lightly when you say you do it like most people most people when
• 1:09:43
  they say they go into it they buy a couple cameras they learn how to shoot they learn lighting and
• 1:09:47
  learn aperture they learn all the different things that are important for it but you have now a
• 1:09:51
  collection of vintage lenses so but it's for me it like it makes me money now because the initial idea
• 1:09:58
  was I start researching and you you look at the movies and you're like oh how this is actually
• 1:10:03
  shot and you you start reading and figuring things out um so when I was doing some rentals um I was
• 1:10:12
  trying to get stuff that nobody has but it's actually very valuable and I think in the last few
• 1:10:18
  years people are looking for something different because when a camera started developing it was
• 1:10:23
  better sensor better quality but everything became the same so when you look for the same when
• 1:10:28
  there is no imperfections and stuff like that it just looks the same and then people are like let's
• 1:10:33
  actually go back to 50s or 60s and take something from there and shoot on that and then see
• 1:10:39
  you do that and see how it looks it's so popular because on one side is AI which makes everything so
• 1:10:45
  plastic and so rendered on the other side people took lenses from 50s 60s 70s rehoused them
• 1:10:52
  in a new housing because the other housing wouldn't hold it and they should movies on it like a lot
• 1:10:56
  of movies in the last two years are shot on film why because the film it just looks really good
• 1:11:03
  and then the technology actually when we shot on film in 90s there was no scanners that we have
• 1:11:08
  now so when you shoot on film you scan it after but you can scan 16 millimeter film which is the
• 1:11:16
  half of the 35 millimeter into a 4k which before couldn't and then it's much better quality than
• 1:11:23
  the camera like this I mean it looks much better and then they should movies with that because
• 1:11:28
  film itself looks better it reacts different on the light so and you know like once I dove into
• 1:11:35
  something start researching you start seeing okay this looks good but how it was actually made
• 1:11:40
  and you see that a lot of movies and commercials right now they shot on film and they put in big
• 1:11:44
  budgets because film cost more but it just looks different it looks good chip station is a success
• 1:11:51
  story partner you know what separates successful online businesses from literally everyone else it's
• 1:11:56
  not just having great products it's delivering an amazing shipping experience that keeps customers
• 1:12:01
  coming back all of my friends that run the biggest e-commerce companies they use ship station and it
• 1:12:06
  is completely transformed how they handle orders they save thousands on shipping costs thanks to the
• 1:12:11
  rate chopper tool that finds the best discounts and when makes ship station brilliant you never need to
• 1:12:16
  upgrade because it grows with your business no matter how big you get and they offer discounts up
• 1:12:20
  to 88% off UPS DHL express and USPS rates and up to 90% off FedEx it integrates seamlessly with
• 1:12:28
  every selling channel you're already using and your customers get branded tracking updates that
• 1:12:32
  keep them happy and informed when shoppers use your products you turn them into loyal customers
• 1:12:37
  with cheaper faster and better shipping no credit card required cancel anytime that's shipstation
• 1:12:43
  dot com code success story hub spot is a success story partner now the future of business is happening
• 1:12:48
  right now and you don't want to miss it that's why you have to be at inbound 2025 they are bringing
• 1:12:53
  together the brightest minds in marketing sales business entrepreneurship AI for three incredible
• 1:12:58
  days in San Francisco the global epicenter of innovation and technological disruption picture
• 1:13:03
  this you are learning directly from Amy Poler about creative leadership you're getting AI insights
• 1:13:08
  from Dario Amote who's literally shaping the future of artificial intelligence here's what makes
• 1:13:13
  inbound special it's not just the great keynotes you're going to dive into breakout sessions where you
• 1:13:17
  can immediately implement what you learn and plus San Francisco's legendary startup ecosystem provides
• 1:13:22
  the perfect backdrop for networking with all these great entrepreneurs decision makers industry
• 1:13:28
  leaders peers who are actively shaping the future of business from September 3rd to 5th at the
• 1:13:32
  Moscone Center you're going to be surrounded by forward-thinking professionals who turn insights
• 1:13:37
  and ideas into breakthroughs don't just watch the future unfold be part of creating it visit inbound.com
• 1:13:42
  slash register to get your ticket today what do you think is so what you're sort of talking about is
• 1:13:48
  more of an analog world in terms of like photography like it's like film as opposed to digital
• 1:13:56
  what do you think we lose as creatives when we move from sort of legacy product analog to digital to
• 1:14:08
  I don't know how to describe it like with with film every single shot you have to pay attention to
• 1:14:14
  because it you because you only have so much film and it costs a lot of money digital it's almost like
• 1:14:19
  you can be wasteful we can shoot as many times we want it doesn't really matter so what do you
• 1:14:24
  outside of that idea what do you think we lose when we move from analog to digital
• 1:14:29
  so I can start from far away when I was in college it was still film photography and then I feel
• 1:14:35
  like after first year when I was in second year in college the first digital cameras were introduced
• 1:14:40
  and people switched to it because on film you have to think so much it was also expensive but you
• 1:14:46
  you need to know so much just to shoot something decent which like you can shoot a lot of film but
• 1:14:53
  to process and all that stuff is going to look like shit if you don't know exposure the rules the
• 1:14:59
  laws how the light works on digital when we got the digital cameras when I first got a digital
• 1:15:05
  camera shoot everything like I would whatever I see I'm like oh let's take picture of this let's
• 1:15:10
  take picture of your own vacation you should everything the same with the iPhones but look at my
• 1:15:14
  camera roll it's garbage there's so much weight but then I don't look at those like I don't I'm
• 1:15:20
  not gonna scroll through all of this and find something be like well this amazing once I started
• 1:15:26
  diving deeper in photography in 2020 once I got a first film camera in 2022 I start shooting
• 1:15:33
  less but I start thinking more and it was almost like I would go somewhere but I would shoot one
• 1:15:40
  role and it's only like 36 shots but each single shot is meaningful like I would go
• 1:15:46
  have the scans put on my phone and it brings the memories back because it was probably the best
• 1:15:52
  best one memory out of the day that I've shot or I've seen somebody or I've been to this amazing
• 1:15:57
  sunset and I've shot it and it's just one photo instead of if I would go and I've been there
• 1:16:03
  and I would shoot 200 photos on on my digital camera and I have to scroll through and be like okay
• 1:16:07
  one is amazing and then once you switch to that once you go back to digital which I try to shoot
• 1:16:14
  more digital right now if I do stuff but I start thinking about it more I'm not gonna shoot like
• 1:16:22
  200 from each around the subject I know this looks good because if I would have film I'm not
• 1:16:29
  gonna shoot 10 shots of just of this I'm gonna shoot one and I'm gonna make sure it's good
• 1:16:35
  I'm gonna make sure the emotions are good I'm gonna make sure it's valuable it's almost like
• 1:16:41
  memories become disposable to a degree because we don't pay attention to what we're actually capturing
• 1:16:45
  now yeah so I I think it's switched my perspective to with because with a film each role is like 20
• 1:16:54
  bucks 23 dollars to buy and it's only 36 shots and to process the roads about 20 dollars to
• 1:17:00
  process and scan the shots like 40 dollars for only 36 shots it I mean it's it's money but you
• 1:17:05
  know people should film because it looks different and some people would even say it looks amazing
• 1:17:10
  and but once you switch to that to that mentality you go back to digital and digital could be even
• 1:17:18
  better than the film but once you start thinking about it because you turn that in your brain because
• 1:17:24
  you have all that card space and you're like okay I can shoot every single thing I can pick the
• 1:17:30
  best photo but once you have a thousand photos or two thousand photos for you to go scroll through
• 1:17:35
  especially everybody the more right now everybody's so busy with everything like it's more and
• 1:17:41
  much more busy a world that it was even 10 years ago and I feel like for me because I'm so busy
• 1:17:48
  with business related stuff something else related stuff I want to have something valuable as a
• 1:17:52
  memory and I like I bought a lake a camera like in 2022 and I was like okay if I shoot I'm going
• 1:18:00
  to shoot the best memories and I actually start shooting and printing stuff and putting my walls
• 1:18:05
  people come to like oh my god this looks amazing because it also it scan really well and then it
• 1:18:12
  it looks more natural than a digital because the digital has so much more in a sensor like I've
• 1:18:17
  shot with the studio lights and stuff like that and I printed it still looks very plastic but
• 1:18:24
  once you print from a film from an actual negative it looks really really good it looks like
• 1:18:30
  magazine quality and I've had pictures like this printed on my walls in my apartment which I
• 1:18:37
  look and I was like sometimes a few years passing and I'm like them I did that well it's amazing I
• 1:18:43
  mean but I do think it's switch my perspective of and I think it should apply to everything I mean
• 1:18:51
  like everything should be thoughtful even in tattoos my friend said a while ago when I was
• 1:18:57
  when I first opened a shop was taking a lot of clients and he said just think about this once
• 1:19:03
  you do work each work in the end should be photographed and be worth to post on your wall that's
• 1:19:10
  what he said he said to me don't just do work to have a quality work try to do work aim for better
• 1:19:19
  and I actually I had a book that I just I just bought somebody said like what look at this book
• 1:19:24
  and it's photography I don't like that style but it's set in the beginning of the book aim for
• 1:19:29
  the moon and you'll end amongst amongst the stars so it was like almost try to strive to create
• 1:19:37
  something better even if it's a small symbol but you can think okay what if I do it to be put on a
• 1:19:44
  wall I can do better do it to be put on the wall do it so that you can yeah don't just create to
• 1:19:50
  create create with like purpose yeah and I think that changed my perspective with with work in general
• 1:19:57
  I think like you can aim for better and and plan and as well like people say when you live with
• 1:20:03
  no plan for the business for yourself like you can have a plan doesn't mean that it's gonna end
• 1:20:09
  up to be that way but even if you decide to go for a mile if you even go for 20% or run for like
• 1:20:16
  five miles even if you run first time as 20% you already ran something yeah it's better than not
• 1:20:22
  but if if you don't have that plan it's better then you don't have a plan you can wake up and you
• 1:20:28
  don't have anything in mind where you want to be and you're like just stuck floating around I guess
• 1:20:34
  do you feel like well I was gonna ask I was gonna ask what are the lessons from photography
• 1:20:39
  that have impacted your your tattooing but I guess that's the answer it's like be purposeful
• 1:20:44
  I think also photography itself and tattooing is seen the light is very important to
• 1:20:54
  see the light see the shapes see the composition complementary colors how colors work in nature
• 1:21:03
  because it applies for tattooing because certain stuff I mean unless it's a traditional tattoo or
• 1:21:07
  it's like three colors years they're black and white it's one thing but once you do something color
• 1:21:11
  realism you need to know color theory and people always say and I always say once you do shadows you
• 1:21:18
  mix the tone with opposite on the color wheel tone to create shadows like that looks more natural
• 1:21:25
  it looks it's sometimes scary to mix orange with a purple but it it neutralizes it creates the gray
• 1:21:34
  and the same for everything for photography too like if I would set lights if I would set
• 1:21:39
  complementary colors how we say in a lot of movies it looks really good because it's orange
• 1:21:44
  teal it's two colors complement it's colors opposite on a car wheel when we put the background
• 1:21:50
  as a teal color and and your skin can be pushed a little bit to be more orange or to orange it looks
• 1:21:58
  very it looks pleasing to the eye so there's there is laws with that so I think a lot of things
• 1:22:05
  like that it applies and the same for the lighting like if you take the Renaissance painting how they
• 1:22:10
  call it a Rembrandt lighting or Hollywood lighting they call it right when there's a triangle on the
• 1:22:17
  shadow side and the light is from the single that goes to you and they should usually from a
• 1:22:22
  from a shadow side but there's always like a triangle they call it Hollywood lighting but look
• 1:22:27
  at Caravaggio's paintings that's how he would set up the lights to paint all these scenes like
• 1:22:32
  everything is like comes from somewhere everything has like a whole path of all those things you know
• 1:22:40
  do you feel like photography's made you a better tattoo artist and vice versa I think so yeah
• 1:22:46
  do you think like other artists should I guess the question is if you're a creative or an artist
• 1:22:51
  doesn't make sense for you to expand into different mediums to to learn new things and new skills
• 1:22:57
  I think it's hard to sit on how they say don't sit on futures at the same time I think it's
• 1:23:02
  better to focus on one thing and try to make everything to be better at it so if you do tattoos is
• 1:23:10
  good to make art paint on a side got all art seminars but photography right now it applies to
• 1:23:16
  tattooing because first we take photos of our tattoos because before we didn't now we have to
• 1:23:21
  take a good photo of tattoo and to take a good photo you need to understand the light you need to
• 1:23:26
  understand how to set up the light because you want to present that product and then even more to
• 1:23:32
  the advance with all these reals you need to be a content creator to the point that you need to
• 1:23:37
  be able to make the video or understand what people would watch in terms of what kind of video
• 1:23:43
  they watch so it's a lot of things right now involved but I think it is hard to be maybe a really
• 1:23:51
  good photographer and good tattoo artist at the same time because I feel like you need to constantly
• 1:23:59
  do the same they need to put that 10,000 hours that you need to put the consistent work because I
• 1:24:04
  do shoot photos in a studio and I should like once a month somebody asks me but I feel like if I
• 1:24:10
  would just shoot a photos at a studio every day I would be so good at it I would like just need
• 1:24:17
  to hit that point of just the hours and that experience that little things like you see once you
• 1:24:22
  work more you see okay like I can ask to turn the head this way I can put the light that way
• 1:24:29
  it's it comes more subconsciously when you're in a stressful environment I think whatever we put
• 1:24:36
  it more like in prints in our brain that we do it with hands without thinking about it but once
• 1:24:42
  we got thrown in in that environment in this stressful environment if we don't have that enough
• 1:24:46
  of like learning that thing we're gonna fuck it up we're gonna we're gonna mess it up
• 1:24:53
  the same with like sports too like I've done jujitsu for a while and I think once they make you do one
• 1:24:59
  move constantly just one move or one escape for like a whole class or like 30 minutes and you come
• 1:25:05
  back after a week and you have to do again or they they have to review how you learn because
• 1:25:10
  it has to be a muscle memory in the things the everything I think even writing books and doing
• 1:25:16
  anything is like a muscle memory you just have to build it up to the point um when you know the
• 1:25:22
  basics you know the laws and then you can create something yourself I love that and also like
• 1:25:28
  once once you know the bit there's a difference between learning something so that it helps you
• 1:25:32
  with your other parts of your work versus learning something to be a master at it like for example
• 1:25:37
  you can learn photography you can learn how to paint you can learn all these different art other
• 1:25:42
  sort of artistic mediums and it can help you as a tattoo artist but it doesn't mean that you have to
• 1:25:47
  become the best at that thing you're not gonna be I don't know I don't know the names of big
• 1:25:52
  photographers I'm sure you do but you don't have to be that person who's like who does this for a living
• 1:25:58
  do you think that technology is good or bad for art I feel like technology is good for art
• 1:26:07
  because if you if you take historically people they were really good artists they were not
• 1:26:13
  recognized or uh some people would literally paint amazing things or photograph amazing things
• 1:26:22
  like a Vivian Meyer took photos and then when she passed somebody discovered all these photos and
• 1:26:27
  the apartment she became famous but that's many artists but yeah and then and it's many artists
• 1:26:32
  back then and I feel like now with the technology and just becoming viral or being able to post
• 1:26:41
  something and people can see in other parts of the world that is amazing I feel like
• 1:26:48
  before was like a label to an artist that artists are alcoholics artists are always broke they
• 1:26:54
  always starving it's not like a good path the parents will uh would take it that way hey like you
• 1:27:00
  need a real job you need to be a lawyer doctor something else to make the money but because we have
• 1:27:06
  so much tools that are free to be exposed to big audience we can hit that big audience painting
• 1:27:15
  something and we can self-prince we can make art gallery we can go to other country and make an
• 1:27:21
  art show where where before when there was no technology people even wouldn't know like um it was
• 1:27:27
  only if it was spoken or newspapers or people if people if people start talking about something
• 1:27:35
  there was people that got known but there's so many artists back in a day they just
• 1:27:39
  paint it in their house and whatever they died nobody they died alcoholics they died broke
• 1:27:45
  and nobody knew and then somebody discovered and they're like holy shit and it all
• 1:27:48
  there's stuff sold for billions of dollars after their death yeah but it would be beneficial if
• 1:27:54
  those people wouldn't have to live like that which maybe I don't know there's always like you know
• 1:28:01
  a fight of your flesh and your soul like the artist has to be uh spiritual in a sense to be
• 1:28:11
  able to create something bigger so I think maybe being in pain or struggling push people to
• 1:28:19
  create something yeah I was curious if you think that like people become less proficient at their
• 1:28:24
  craft if they're if life's too good because even nowadays like you think about martial arts uh people
• 1:28:30
  like Conan McGregor once he got what he wanted he got the money he doesn't train as hard he cannot
• 1:28:39
  fight anymore uh to a top level but if you take back in a day when there was no social media and you
• 1:28:44
  cannot get that fame like my Tyson or somebody else when there was no money that you can make right
• 1:28:52
  now based on social media or like who your chavez when he had like 200 whatever fights uh now it's
• 1:29:00
  like two three fights and then if your character if you're good you can become so famous that sponsors
• 1:29:07
  will pay you so much money that people never made before um so that's beneficial of technology but
• 1:29:13
  it also ruins probably the passion because once you have that money your lifestyle changes your
• 1:29:20
  patterns change you do other things and maybe you want to do other things because like
• 1:29:27
  if you just have to hustle just to pay the bills even if you're amazing and what you do it's like one
• 1:29:32
  thing but once you have an access to all of this then you can do so much more you can learn
• 1:29:39
  something else and i mean personally have you ever lost your edge because of success
• 1:29:44
  no i never did but i i also don't know what it is to like if i whatever make like 20 million dollars
• 1:29:52
  i don't know what it is to to fill that way i mean i was working for somebody in barely paying bills
• 1:29:57
  and then i i made this amount of money that i uh had some real estate purchase i bought a house
• 1:30:03
  for my parents like stuff like that but it's it's all it was like a hard work for a long period of time
• 1:30:10
  that i feel like i deserve there's never actually never work again money it was never f you like
• 1:30:16
  money one check that yeah if i would even have an opportunity like that that's that's different i
• 1:30:22
  don't know how i would feel where the person i would be but i i do know that when people get into
• 1:30:30
  that position their surroundings change the people how they take them like it change everything
• 1:30:37
  changes around them so i don't know did your did your parents ever come to terms with what you do
• 1:30:43
  for a living my parents hated it first my parents were making fun of it and uh when i first started
• 1:30:50
  tattooing i was still doing graphic design on the side i uh was building websites i worked for some
• 1:30:56
  companies i actually did a website for uh formula one racer like i've had really good clients that
• 1:31:03
  would pay me a lot of money but um my parents were like oh you're just doing this just as a hobby
• 1:31:10
  you should get a real job you should maybe get another degree and my until i moved to New York and
• 1:31:16
  until i made the money that i bought a house for my parents it was like in 2015 i think once i
• 1:31:22
  did that and once i start like sending money to support my mom or my dad uh they were like hey
• 1:31:29
  you have a good opportunity you live in states it's good uh good education you should maybe
• 1:31:34
  the money you make you should invest in like on the free time just get another degree that's what
• 1:31:39
  they they would tell me like so they still can't get out of there the way that they look at the
• 1:31:43
  world because even if you're making money they're still thinking no but now they don't because like
• 1:31:50
  after i bought a place for myself and all of their stuff i own the business but for a long time
• 1:31:55
  even i was making decent amount of money the steel were like hey why don't you get a stable job
• 1:32:01
  and some something that you can rely on for a rest of your life and then retire um i mean
• 1:32:10
  i got never through that never threw you off them not sort of uh being okay it did throw me off for
• 1:32:17
  sure but i i don't know i always i feel like when i was still in a high school um i wanted to live on
• 1:32:25
  my own because i've had a big family and it was like a lot of people in a household and i've always
• 1:32:31
  tried to hang out people that are successful i always hang out with people that are older i've
• 1:32:35
  had people that own businesses their friends and i was in like 18s or 20s and people will take me
• 1:32:43
  on the trips and people who own construction companies or something else and made like i don't
• 1:32:49
  know a million dollars a year back then and like with considering me a friend because i knew certain
• 1:32:55
  things uh that they didn't have anybody around like i knew like how to do web development how to do
• 1:33:02
  graphic design and certain things about the marketing so they were interested in that skill because
• 1:33:08
  they didn't have it so i was helping them uh to do those things but they wanted to hang out with me
• 1:33:14
  just for like maybe like a helpful exchange but i've been around those people and seen
• 1:33:19
  uh different type like different success from early age because my both parents like my dad worked
• 1:33:26
  as a professor at the university he worked as a teacher and then worked as a professor at the
• 1:33:31
  university uh teaching technology and math uh for all his life for like 50 years uh until he was
• 1:33:40
  pushed to retire but um he never did stuff for himself he just worked for a check and got a check
• 1:33:47
  and then and then that's it and then get pushed out and then my mom because there was three kids
• 1:33:54
  that she had she couldn't work for a certain time and she had a really good job uh before my younger
• 1:34:01
  sister was born but when my younger sister was born she was like all i have three kids i i don't
• 1:34:06
  have any time so she had to quit the job and when she tried to go back into thousands to get a job
• 1:34:13
  back it was a completely different world everybody was already computers it was everything in a system
• 1:34:20
  automated and she worked as an accountant before uh for a huge government thing uh for the
• 1:34:27
  spaceship company um and then once in 2000 she tried to go back they're like sorry we kind of
• 1:34:34
  take you even you have experience with working this they're like you have to go and get at least
• 1:34:39
  four or five years of education to catch up to catch up and then you can go back and she was like
• 1:34:44
  holy shit four or five years i have to pay for education so she never did she did a little bit of
• 1:34:49
  like half a year or a year and then worked jobs here and there but um it's still a mentality i
• 1:34:57
  think if you're gonna just walk through so i want the audience to sort of they've learned a lot
• 1:35:04
  but i want them to learn sort of uh say a lesson or a failure that you've experienced that you
• 1:35:12
  wouldn't wish anybody else would ever have to go through but it was a very valuable lesson for you
• 1:35:18
  what would that what would that moment be and it can be it doesn't have to be in business it can be
• 1:35:24
  but something that you think you learned quite a bit from the you think somebody else hopefully
• 1:35:28
  will never have to experience firsthand i think in life everything should be balanced like sometimes
• 1:35:34
  um and in me personally i have a lot of issues with that um i would basically throw myself into work
• 1:35:42
  and i just overworked myself like i i would get into something and i know that i could do more
• 1:35:48
  um so i i could basically go and work seven days a week but it does huge impact on
• 1:35:56
  a mental health i think everything should be balanced why why start doing photography
• 1:36:01
  because i needed something to take my mind off and once your mind is into a business if you want
• 1:36:06
  a business to succeed you just put all your resources all your energy into it and there is a
• 1:36:13
  negative impact into your body from that which you might not feel in the beginning but in a certain
• 1:36:19
  period of time it's going to hit you and it can hit really hard and some people that did jobs
• 1:36:25
  for many years sometimes they just fall sick and then they cannot work anymore or something else
• 1:36:30
  so i think that's the biggest lesson i've learned from own in a business i think you need to balance
• 1:36:37
  things and sometimes going less is going more in a long term uh sometimes like pushing pushing
• 1:36:45
  more or going forward more can end up that you wouldn't be able to do that anymore and um i think
• 1:36:54
  balancing your life if you have a family or if you have in a hobby it's good to take your
• 1:37:00
  mind off if you try not to do a business i think some days you just have to be completely off the
• 1:37:04
  phone you like my why i started doing photography like street photography that i really enjoy
• 1:37:10
  i would take a camera i just go outside i'm not looking at a phone i'm not doing anything i'm like okay
• 1:37:15
  for three four hours i'm just going to walk around and find something interesting and take photos
• 1:37:20
  because um i was working so much first few years then i started getting sick a lot and you noticed
• 1:37:26
  your body shutting down yeah and i was like when i first started happening i was like okay i just
• 1:37:31
  go take antibiotics because i was like getting sick with like a flu or cold like consistently
• 1:37:36
  but i was putting so much work because i was like oh i'm here but i can do even more so you're like
• 1:37:43
  i'm the only me i have that's this time but it also i think it should be that everybody needs to
• 1:37:50
  learn that you can hire people to do the jobs that they can do but you you pay them less money
• 1:37:59
  because your time is more valuable for the money that you make so you don't have to clean your house
• 1:38:05
  when you can hire somebody for ten dollars an hour to clean your house because if you clean your
• 1:38:10
  house unless you're enjoying it if you clean your house you're gonna take half a day to do it
• 1:38:14
  but at the same time you can do something more valuable or spend time with your family
• 1:38:18
  and i think i think in your life should be very balanced that way i think if you just throw yourself
• 1:38:25
  into something and even if it's going well it can end up like hurting yourself or doing something
• 1:38:30
  something bad yeah because you kind of just get distracted by like the short-term wins yes and i
• 1:38:38
  i think sometimes like little steps is even better steps forward because in the in the long term
• 1:38:46
  it's going to be better but i also think like if if there is opportunities and you see opportunities
• 1:38:54
  it's better to take them because you like you can regret them later and somebody told me a
• 1:38:59
  long time ago i mean if you don't knock on the door i've had a guy when i met i was like in my
• 1:39:05
  20s and he was very successful he did construction and he told me it was a long time ago but it's stuck
• 1:39:11
  to me he said that he was trying to do business and he he was from poor family he was trying to
• 1:39:19
  make a lot of money and be rich and he tried many things and he said it's better to ask because of
• 1:39:26
  like if you if you have ideas it's better to try and to ask people and to learn from people
• 1:39:31
  because if you're afraid like you're just going to be thinking about it that you never tried but
• 1:39:38
  if you try even if you fail you failed but sometimes you you try and you succeed and he was like
• 1:39:45
  when he finished his university he said i was just knocking on everybody's door because i
• 1:39:50
  want to be successful he was like i got into this i was selling elevators it's failed i was doing
• 1:39:54
  this it failed i was doing this it failed and then he did construction company got a lot of
• 1:39:59
  connections and he was doing a lot of money i was making millions of dollars off that but he said
• 1:40:04
  i failed so many times i had debt i had people there pissed off i had this and this but you learn
• 1:40:10
  from your mistakes and i think like in my life a lot of stuff was like learning here and there
• 1:40:20
  from different people they've been around and i think it seems like an early age i kind of
• 1:40:29
  seeing how these people because of what they're successful the patterns and all other stuff
• 1:40:35
  but i also i also think you can hire people to do other things for you and like
• 1:40:42
  for people don't spread themselves then like you you can if you want to do marketing research
• 1:40:46
  if you want to do something else you can hire people to source them from other countries
• 1:40:50
  you can learn a little bit yes so you can learn a little bit fail but also at the same time
• 1:40:53
  you have to balance that two things can be true at the same time it's good for you to learn and
• 1:40:57
  fail at the same time it's also good for you to delegate responsibilities you don't do everything
• 1:41:01
  yourself it's a balance i think that also i think that also like for entrepreneurs it's important to
• 1:41:07
  to try and learn and if you do fail at least you've learned a little bit so that you can now when
• 1:41:11
  you hire people to help you make a better hiring decision you see what's good you see what's good
• 1:41:17
  and i also read a thing when you hire somebody to do the job it's better to write the steps
• 1:41:25
  exact steps they have to do to make that happen to make the product or to make the job
• 1:41:30
  because if you say hey create me a website or like hey write this write this article that i need to
• 1:41:36
  post on a blog but if you put the exact steps if you put i want to write this blog but for me if
• 1:41:42
  i would do it i would go and do a research on the internet based on this topic and based on
• 1:41:48
  another i would put every single step and they would do a good job that you would do but if you
• 1:41:54
  just write a task without explaining it or without the steps to to make to create that task that it
• 1:42:02
  wouldn't be valuable or wouldn't apply to your business because you see it a different way but
• 1:42:08
  you cannot express yourself you cannot explain how you want it to be and sometimes you just throw
• 1:42:14
  it out there as a as a task and you hire somebody and they do a shitty job and you're like
• 1:42:18
  shit i paid this person money but i have to redo it and do it myself which like i learned
• 1:42:26
  sometimes it's better for me to do it but it also i don't have much time but it's you have to
• 1:42:33
  find that balance and try to explain it better for people like education is huge yeah that are
• 1:42:39
  they're doing it what would be the most important thing you've had to unlearn i try not to attach
• 1:42:45
  myself to things it's it's like a hard thing but we get attached to people to have it's to
• 1:42:52
  something else i try not to think that's human nature to be honest yeah i try i try not to attach
• 1:42:58
  to things because like pets will die and you know we love them so much but it's it's like a thing but
• 1:43:06
  like i think switching up like you literally like if you have a same pattern of something i think
• 1:43:17
  switching things up is a good thing like you have to kind of learn to fall in into the same pattern
• 1:43:22
  of life because you would learn and get comfortable somewhere like i have friends that i i just see
• 1:43:28
  maybe because my brain works differently but i see people that are like they try things they find
• 1:43:32
  what works for them like even food like they would find a restaurant and it would go there because
• 1:43:38
  they eat the services good it makes them feel good but they're like fall into this pattern that
• 1:43:44
  they're scared to try something else because life with people with relationship with press everything
• 1:43:49
  yes agree and then they're they're like they're everything as well everything is is good for them
• 1:43:56
  they feel comfortable but they're just going with a flow i guess and if in my like in my experience
• 1:44:05
  i just seen it because i've been to different countries people like that when something happens
• 1:44:11
  it could happen as like an accident or they can get sick or something else like somebody dies
• 1:44:16
  it throws them off they're not resilient but yeah yeah they cannot adjust to that situation
• 1:44:21
  and they end up not not well or they end up go into therapy or something else for a long time
• 1:44:27
  or something happen they like get on drugs or whatever because they don't know they don't know how
• 1:44:33
  to deal with it but once you once you unlearn that once you just try to like detach yeah you detach
• 1:44:43
  detach from things but you kind of you can't adapt to anywhere or to anything i think it's a good
• 1:44:48
  it's a good thing it's a good skill especially for me like i come from a country where i feel
• 1:44:54
  more comfortable in being here like i still for i've been here 15 years i still feel like if i
• 1:45:01
  go back there i feel more comfortable like i know the culture i understand the people i know
• 1:45:06
  how the food i know how the system works i know how everything works and i have less stress as like
• 1:45:13
  the mental stress that is isn't my head than being here because here i feel like i don't have any
• 1:45:19
  family and i'm always attacked that i have to pay the bills i'm like something can happen or
• 1:45:25
  this and this and this and 10 million things but i think it changed me as a person and the same
• 1:45:30
  with the business like maybe it's comfortable for me to go and work for somebody because if i own
• 1:45:36
  my own business i have to pay rent which is way more than i if i'm working for somebody or
• 1:45:42
  way more than i'm paying for my apartment and then i need i have responsibilities of having
• 1:45:50
  employees that i have to pay and i have to provide the people who work for me work and find the work
• 1:45:55
  for them so it is more comfortable for me to go for a company and have stable money that i know
• 1:46:02
  maybe build my name and work there but once i throw myself into uncomfortable
• 1:46:09
  into this crazy waterfall and i kind of readjust and learn how to swim i kind of
• 1:46:16
  feel less scary with other people like i go into something that is unknown and i don't feel scared
• 1:46:22
  or i go meet somebody or i speak with somebody who can be i don't know a billionaire and i mean
• 1:46:27
  i feel comfortable speaking with them because it changed me as a person and i think i approach
• 1:46:36
  things different way and i have that experience in me which i think it's a good thing
• 1:46:42
  if people want to connect with you if people actually want to go to the shop uh where should they go
• 1:46:46
  so socials uh everywhere you want to send them so shop is called first class tattoos uh it's on
• 1:46:52
  52 Canal Street in Manhattan um they can go follow us first class NYC on instagram we'll also have
• 1:46:59
  a website where we have some works and my personal instagram was me kale Anderson uh with the two s's
• 1:47:06
  you can see it's like tattoos all over my page so they can
• 1:47:10
  i'll put everything in the show notes too so people can just click through but sounds good
• 1:47:14
  then the last thing that i always like to ask so you've given over like a lot of different
• 1:47:18
  bits of wisdom but say out of your life you can only pass on one lesson to your kids it's the most
• 1:47:25
  important lesson what would that lesson be and why i think the biggest thing is not to um like
• 1:47:32
  take care of your health from the early age i think that's probably the biggest lesson i want
• 1:47:38
  the kids are everybody to learn yeah and i think that
• 1:47:44
  teaching that the kids because the school or anything else it doesn't teach the kids that but i
• 1:47:49
  i think uh if you want your kids to live in the world i think teaching them the finances and the
• 1:47:56
  money is a big thing but i i think the most important thing is health because uh once
• 1:48:04
  you don't have health every like it becomes the the main problem for anybody like that's the
• 1:48:11
  main focus you cannot enjoy your life you cannot do many things that you could have done so i
• 1:48:15
  think uh taking care of eating healthy exercising taking care for yourself or your mental health
• 1:48:22
  and all that stuff uh i think it's the in my opinion is the most important advice