Latest / Inside the Criminal Process / Listener Questions

Transcript

Listener Questions · Inside the Criminal Process

0:00
SPEAKER_00: Hello, and welcome to Inside the Criminal Process, a podcast where I discuss and explain the criminal justice system in America using real-life examples and true crime cases.
0:09
SPEAKER_00: My name is Scott, and I'm a 29-year veteran law enforcement officer and a licensed attorney.
0:14
SPEAKER_00: I've worked as a patrol officer, a crime scene investigator, a field training officer, a detective, a parole officer, an investigator, a polygraph examiner, a crisis negotiator, and an administrator.
0:26
SPEAKER_00: I've also taught college-level criminal justice classes.
0:29
SPEAKER_00: Today I'm going to go answer some questions that I've received from listeners, thanks to those listeners that submitted the questions.
0:36
SPEAKER_00: Let's get started.
0:37
SPEAKER_00: First question: How does the federal government go about filing lawsuits against states?
0:42
SPEAKER_00: So the person that wanted to know this said that the federal government has filed a lawsuit against a state for limiting the number of rounds that can be held in a firearm magazine.
0:54
SPEAKER_00: And the federal government gets its authority from federal law, specifically 28 USC, which stands for United States Code 1345.
1:05
SPEAKER_00: That gives the feds the original jurisdiction to bring civil actions in federal court for claims arising under federal law or within the government's statutory authority.
1:14
SPEAKER_00: Since this is a Second Amendment issue, the government, the federal government has authority to bring this lawsuit.
1:20
SPEAKER_00: So the DA DOJ's civil rights division is basically going to file the complaint in the district court for the district of wherever of that state.
1:31
SPEAKER_00: The plaintiff is the federal government.
1:33
SPEAKER_00: The defendant's going to be that state.
1:35
SPEAKER_00: And other private plaintiffs can join as well.
1:38
SPEAKER_00: Like sometimes the NRA will join and they'll they'll file a amicus curae.
1:43
SPEAKER_00: That's a Latin term for friend of the court.
1:45
SPEAKER_00: They'll file a brief basically with their stance on why it's a bad law, why it shouldn't be uh passed or enforced or or or whatever.
1:54
SPEAKER_00: And the U.S.
1:57
SPEAKER_00: is going to argue that the ban infringes on the Second Amendment.
2:01
SPEAKER_00: The restriction isn't historically consistent with U.S.
2:04
SPEAKER_00: gun laws, and they'll probably throw in an argument about the law is politically motivated and not narrowly tailored to address gun violence.
2:13
SPEAKER_00: The state that's defending it is going to basically cite uh public safety rationale and state authority under its police power.
2:22
SPEAKER_00: So a jury or a judge will decide whether the ban is constitutional.
2:26
SPEAKER_00: If it's found unconstitutional, the court could order the law to be struck down.
2:31
SPEAKER_00: So the second question is piggybacks on that first question.
2:37
SPEAKER_00: It's how does the federal government enforce the verdict if the case goes to court and the the federal government wins against the state?
2:46
SPEAKER_00: So if the if the court finds that Colorado's enforcement of the ban violates the Second Amendment, it could basically issue a permanent injunction banning state agencies from enforcing the ban.
2:59
SPEAKER_00: There could be a consent decree, and I'll cover consent decrees in a in a future episode.
3:03
SPEAKER_00: Basically, it means that the federal government steps in and oversees whatever it is that's that's the problem.
3:10
SPEAKER_00: Um and you usually see these in in situations where a police department is being sued and uh the person suing the police department has agreed that if if the police department allows the federal government to come in and oversee their operation and audit them and make sure they're doing everything within the within reason, within the law, um, then they will they will dismiss or or withdraw their lawsuit.
3:41
SPEAKER_00: And the the court could also issue a declare declaratory judgment that the ban is unconstitutional.
3:48
SPEAKER_00: And what that would do, it would set a precedent for other states.
3:52
SPEAKER_00: So other states wouldn't wouldn't waste their time passing that type of law.
3:57
SPEAKER_00: Question three, what happens uh to someone after they get arrested?
4:03
SPEAKER_00: So cops show up, they have probable cause to arrest somebody, they take them into custody.
4:11
SPEAKER_00: They can either issue them a summons, which is basically a ticket, and you sign that, and that's your promise to appear in court and be released on that, or they're gonna take them and book them into jail.
4:22
SPEAKER_00: And certain states, the state I live in, if it's domestic violence crime, it's a mandatory arrest, and the person has to go to jail and they get a no-bond hold, so they can't get out until they've actually been arraigned and seen a judge.
4:35
SPEAKER_00: So if they do take them to jail, they they book them, they take their pictures, their fingerprints, get all their private information and personal information, um, write a warrantless arrest affidavit saying why they've jailed them.
4:52
SPEAKER_00: There has to be problem cause that has to be spelled out in the in the affidavit.
4:57
SPEAKER_00: Then they'll be placed in the jail.
4:58
SPEAKER_00: The jail will take them and process them into the facility and then put them in a in a cell.
5:05
SPEAKER_00: So they can post bond from the jail if if it's not a uh no bond hold.
5:11
SPEAKER_00: Um and I'll I'll cover that in a future episode as well, the the bond process.
5:18
SPEAKER_00: And then within a certain number of days, there has to be they have to be taken to court.
5:24
SPEAKER_00: And and I think last time I was working on the street, it was it was uh three days, not counting weekends or holidays.
5:34
SPEAKER_00: So then they'll be taken to court, they'll be advised in in the arraignment what the charges are.
5:39
SPEAKER_00: The judge will figure out legal representation at that time.
5:42
SPEAKER_00: If they ask for a public defender, they'll be told how they need to go about applying for that.
5:48
SPEAKER_00: Um, the judge can then set a bond for them, and then that starts the whole pretrial process.
5:55
SPEAKER_00: And there'll be like a preliminary hearing to determine if the person doesn't waive it, to determine whether or not probable cause existed for the arrest.
6:03
SPEAKER_00: There'll be a ton of motions hearings typically uh filed by the defense and the prosecutors.
6:08
SPEAKER_00: You know, the defense is going to say we we don't think this evidence should be admitted because of this, and then the court will have hearings on these motions and the attorneys will go in there and and argue, and then the the judges will will make their decisions on the motions.
6:25
SPEAKER_00: It's a disc there's a discovery process.
6:28
SPEAKER_00: Prosecution has to turn over everything to the defense team.
6:31
SPEAKER_00: There will be plea negotiations.
6:33
SPEAKER_00: Um eventually there'll be either a dismissal or a trial and or a plea, and then after that will be sentencing or release.
6:45
SPEAKER_00: Um, so it's a it's an involved process, and it's there's nothing quick about it, and it's as it's very inconvenient and um just not something that uh that you want to go through.
7:00
SPEAKER_00: So, question number four Can you tell a police officer that you're gonna beat his ass if they put hands on you?
7:08
SPEAKER_00: So I see this on TikTok and YouTube quite a bit.
7:11
SPEAKER_00: Someone on a traffic stop tells a cop, You can't make me get out of my car.
7:15
SPEAKER_00: If you touch me, I'll kick your ass, etc., etc., etc.
7:18
SPEAKER_00: First of all, cops can tell you to get out of the car.
7:21
SPEAKER_00: Uh there's a couple cases, Pennsylvania, Penn Pennsylvania versus Mims and Maryland v.
7:27
SPEAKER_00: Wilson.
7:29
SPEAKER_00: Those both those cases basically say police can instruct both drivers and passengers to step out without needing additional probable cause or reasonable suspicion beyond the initial stop.
7:40
SPEAKER_00: So the cops can make you get out.
7:42
SPEAKER_00: Listen, you've got a driver's license, and that gives you a privilege of driving a car.
7:47
SPEAKER_00: So whenever you're operating a vehicle, you are at the mercy of the cops and you don't have any rights to not show them your driver's license.
7:55
SPEAKER_00: You have to prove that you are uh you have a valid license.
7:58
SPEAKER_00: It's just like somebody practicing medicine.
8:00
SPEAKER_00: Like they get licensed by by the state, and they have to show that that they're able to do that.
8:06
SPEAKER_00: So if somebody from the the regulatory agency shows up and says, I need to see your medical license, they're gonna have to show it to them.
8:14
SPEAKER_00: Um it's it's it's no different than anything else that you have to have a license to do.
8:19
SPEAKER_00: And and you gotta provide the cops with your driver's license and and comply with what they're telling you to do during the stop.
8:28
SPEAKER_00: So if you do the the whole, you know, you don't have the authority to make me get out of the car.
8:40
SPEAKER_00: Listen, if it's a if it's a request, you can decline.
8:44
SPEAKER_00: I would do so politely rather than saying you don't have the authority to make me, but but if it's a request, then you can decline.
8:51
SPEAKER_00: If it's an order, hey, get out of the car, you have to comply, or you're gonna face possible charges for failure to obey a lawful order.
8:59
SPEAKER_00: And um if the state has a a law like that or similar to that, um, and then any type of they can use any amount of reasonable force to get you into custody.
9:09
SPEAKER_00: Um so anything after that point, after they they've decided to arrest you and they tell you, like you're gonna, it's gonna be resisting arrest.
9:20
SPEAKER_00: As far as telling an officer that you're gonna kick his or her ass if they put hands on you, um, that's a conditional threat.
9:26
SPEAKER_00: So typically it can't be charged criminally in the state that I'm in.
9:30
SPEAKER_00: The threat to beat an officer's ass is conditioned on whether or not that person puts hands on you.
9:37
SPEAKER_00: And so it's not an immediate threat to one's safety.
9:40
SPEAKER_00: Uh the police may be able to charge you with disorderly conduct or something similar if other people are present, obviously, breach of the peace.
9:49
SPEAKER_00: Um and dis disorderly conduct basically is an intentional or knowing or reckless coarse and uh uh offensive utterance, gesture, or display in a public place uh that tends to incite an immediate breach of the peace.
10:04
SPEAKER_00: So that's that's that's the kicker right there, is it tends to incite an immediate breach of the peace.
10:09
SPEAKER_00: So if if typically it's not, it's going to incite the officer put grabbing you and putting you in handcuffs and lawfully arresting you.
10:18
SPEAKER_00: Um so it's not it's not something that we used when I was on the street, you know, for the for the most part.
10:28
SPEAKER_00: We just kind of treated it as what it was, was just an idiot that doesn't know what they're talking about, you know, dealing with them and and either arresting them or letting them go.
10:41
SPEAKER_00: Um I guess you could possibly charge them with with menacing.
10:48
SPEAKER_00: If menacing basically without without a weapon is just basically your actions are placing someone in fear of bodily harm.
11:02
SPEAKER_00: And so I guess if a cop can make the argument that the person placed me in fear of bodily harm or serious bodily injury, they could they could charge them with menacing.
11:17
SPEAKER_00: And and again, it's a misdemeanor if there's no uh deadly weapon involved, but if there's a if there's a weapon involved, it's it's a felony.
11:25
SPEAKER_00: But again, most of the time the cops are just gonna be like, you know, this is just an idiot that's talking tough because he knows we're not gonna do anything to him.
11:35
SPEAKER_00: Um but yeah, you have to comply with within reason with what the officer is telling you to do during a traffic stop.
11:44
SPEAKER_00: Uh otherwise you're just gonna make it a lot worse.
11:48
SPEAKER_00: And that's what you usually see on YouTube, even though they don't show the stuff how it ends or or any of that stuff.
11:56
SPEAKER_00: So question number five is does someone need your consent to videotape you in a public place?
12:02
SPEAKER_00: Again, I've covered this before.
12:04
SPEAKER_00: No, and the people that do it, they call themselves First Amendment auditors.
12:09
SPEAKER_00: They're just hoping that you'll confront them and say, hey, stop videotaping me.
12:13
SPEAKER_00: You can't videotape me.
12:15
SPEAKER_00: And then they like to, you know, they they'll call you names and and act like a child and and you know, just rage bait you so that they can get something to post online and get views on their channel.
12:26
SPEAKER_00: So if you think they're doing something illegal, just call the police, report it to the police.
12:31
SPEAKER_00: Um, but for God's sake, don't confront them.
12:33
SPEAKER_00: That's that's what they want.
12:35
SPEAKER_00: That that just turns them into drama queens.
12:37
SPEAKER_00: Uh, don't get near me, I'll pepper spray you, don't come near me.
12:40
SPEAKER_00: That's assault, that's that's battery.
12:42
SPEAKER_00: It's just subnoxious.
12:44
SPEAKER_00: Um, it would be nice if you could kick their ass.
12:47
SPEAKER_00: Um they were probably beat up quite a bit as they were growing up, and this is their way to legally harass people.
12:54
SPEAKER_00: And uh they figured out how to make money doing it, you know.
12:58
SPEAKER_00: Again, it's best just to ignore them.
13:00
SPEAKER_00: They'll eventually fade away, I think, if enough people just ignore them and don't don't go for the the bait and start yelling at them.
13:10
SPEAKER_00: Um, I think they do more harm than good.
13:13
SPEAKER_00: Especially they harm their cause when they start cursing and calling names and tell cops they're unprofessional if the cops do the same thing.
13:23
SPEAKER_00: You know, that that just hurts their credibility.
13:25
SPEAKER_00: Uh one of the agencies I worked for was pretty good at dealing with complaints of unprofessional behavior, especially if the person was being a jerk.
13:32
SPEAKER_00: It's kind of like, what do you expect?
13:34
SPEAKER_00: Like the cops are not gonna keep treating you professionally when you're calling them names and saying that you hope their kids die and you're gonna, you know, you're gonna kill them if if they put hands on you or whatever.
13:45
SPEAKER_00: Um in my personal opinion, like you're entitled to the amount of respect that that uh and professionalism that that you give.
13:55
SPEAKER_00: So um, yeah, I would just uh I would ignore them.
14:00
SPEAKER_00: I I saw one the other day where this First Amendment auditor, and I know I shouldn't be watching them because that's how they make their money, but he was saying that he he trains uh police officers, judges, and lawyers on on First Amendment issues.
14:17
SPEAKER_00: And that's just I I don't believe that for a second.
14:20
SPEAKER_00: City and county attorneys come in and teach the police departments about constitutional law, uh, so they don't need some some guy that has an expensive camera or video equipment to come in and tell them how they need to do their job.
14:34
SPEAKER_00: So I don't believe it when they say that they're the they've been hired to train all these legal professionals on First Amendment issues.
14:43
SPEAKER_00: Question six, is it legal to lie to a suspect during interrogations?
14:48
SPEAKER_00: And I've mentioned this in the past, it is.
14:51
SPEAKER_00: Cops can lie to a suspect during an interrogation.
14:54
SPEAKER_00: Um, but I was always, you have to be really careful if you're gonna do this as a cop.
14:59
SPEAKER_00: I only did it a handful of times outright during my whole entire career.
15:04
SPEAKER_00: It's especially hard to use this tactic on people in uh controlled environments, prisoners, inmates in jails and prisons.
15:14
SPEAKER_00: Uh, because if they call your bluff and they find out you're lying, you lose credibility with everybody.
15:20
SPEAKER_00: And that word gets around and it and it's hard to regain your your credibility.
15:26
SPEAKER_00: So the theory behind it is that if you didn't do something and the officer says he or she has proof that you did, uh, you should know that's it's not the truth, basically, and say, you know, show me the proof, give me the receipts.
15:40
SPEAKER_00: It's like if you've never been to somebody's house or or uh an office building and you're accused of burglary or theft or doing something at that home or the office, and the officer says, We have your prints on something at the home or in the office.
15:55
SPEAKER_00: You know, if you haven't been there, that's not true.
15:57
SPEAKER_00: So you wouldn't confess based on the statement of the officer.
16:02
SPEAKER_00: So that's kind of the theory behind that.
16:05
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, and they can they can bring in a whole stack of stuff and say this is all evidence against you.
16:12
SPEAKER_00: Uh and it it usually works on somebody who's actually committed the crime, right?
16:20
SPEAKER_00: Um they're they're not gonna call your bluff typically.
16:24
SPEAKER_00: But again, it you have to use caution when using that tactic because if you could completely lose credibility and then your your investigation's basically over.
16:34
SPEAKER_00: They're not gonna talk to you anymore.
16:37
SPEAKER_00: Question seven: if an officer shoots somebody, do they have to go on leave while an investigation is conducted?
16:44
SPEAKER_00: And most agencies will put the officer on administrative leave pending the investigations.
16:50
SPEAKER_00: There's gonna be two investigations.
16:52
SPEAKER_00: There's gonna be a criminal investigation to determine if the officer violated any law, and there's gonna be an administrative investigation to determine if the officer violated any policies.
17:02
SPEAKER_00: And what would that be?
17:03
SPEAKER_00: So, so say an officer, somebody pulls a gun on an officer, the officer pulls his or her gun, it shoots and kills the person, and uh criminally there's there's nothing wrong because the officer feared for his or her life and and used deadly force lawfully.
17:24
SPEAKER_00: But if the officer um had done something that violated the admin the their policies or procedures, like if they're carrying a gun that they're not qualified with or that they're not supposed to have, they're gonna get in trouble for the um for um the policy violation and the and the administrative internal affairs will find that they will do a sustained sustained case on that.
17:51
SPEAKER_00: So question eight, what are the what are the best deterrence, deterrence, what is the best deterrence or are the best deterrences for home invasion?
18:01
SPEAKER_00: I always used to tell people dogs that will bark when somebody's at the door or messing around near the house, or audible alarms are the best deterrences for burglaries when you're not home.
18:14
SPEAKER_00: I would say that uh if you are home, the the best deterrence or the or the best offense would be having a weapon uh that you can get to that you can protect yourself if somebody gets into your house.
18:27
SPEAKER_00: And uh, you know, as long as they're as long as they're available and you can get to them, uh, or have an exit strategy where you can go out the house, not the same way that they came in.
18:40
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, just have a way to get away from them.
18:46
SPEAKER_00: I did I did hear something just on the radio the other day.
18:49
SPEAKER_00: Some people are selling a uh ring camera that that you can actually activate a pepper spray nozzle and it'll it'll pet squirt pepper spray on the person at the at the door.
19:01
SPEAKER_00: We'll see how well that that works out after it's it's it's common.
19:05
SPEAKER_00: But a good surveillance system is good too, and and signs that say you have a surveillance system.
19:11
SPEAKER_00: Um I I talked to a burglar once and said, listen, do those signs, do they deter you?
19:16
SPEAKER_00: And he said, Well, it's always easier to go to a house that doesn't, where you know there's no there's no dog or there's no alarm.
19:23
SPEAKER_00: Um so yeah, if you have time and and you haven't targeted a specific house, um, you're always gonna go, you're gonna try to find the house that looks like it's gonna be the easiest to get in, get stuff, and get out.
19:39
SPEAKER_00: Question nine.
19:41
SPEAKER_00: In your experience, how common are police impersonators and how can someone protect themselves in such cases?
19:46
SPEAKER_00: So I don't know that they're extremely common, and I don't I don't watch the news or read the paper all that much, so I don't know, but it it used to be fairly common, and there are a lot of A and E bit uh specials on people who have impersonated police officers in order to victimize somebody.
20:07
SPEAKER_00: Uh, I did just see a TikTok recently where a person had like emergency lights installed on his personal car, and he was using them.
20:15
SPEAKER_00: I don't think he pulled somebody over, but they were on, and a deputy drove by and went back and contacted the guy, and this guy actually told the deputy that he was a sergeant with the sheriff's office in neighboring state and that he was working on a case.
20:30
SPEAKER_00: So, I mean, I guess he should have known, but but he wasn't really a police officer.
20:34
SPEAKER_00: He was an impersonated police officer.
20:37
SPEAKER_00: But the deputy was was confirming that.
20:40
SPEAKER_00: Like I didn't watch, they had broken this down into like three or four videos, and I don't have the the focus or the concentration to watch one of those that that lasts that long.
20:51
SPEAKER_00: Um so but the the deputy was calling that sheriff's department and asking them if they had a uh sergeant that worked there by that name.
21:00
SPEAKER_00: So the guy ended up again.
21:02
SPEAKER_00: I didn't watch the whole thing, but he did get charged with um impersonating a police officer, even though it didn't appear like he was doing it for um to victimize somebody, although he could have.
21:13
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I don't know why else you would do that.
21:16
SPEAKER_00: Um if somebody if if somebody is in an unmarked car and they're trying to pull you over, I think the best thing to do is uh, especially in a remote area or an area where there's not a lot of people, just call 911 and tell them, hey, there's a car.
21:35
SPEAKER_00: I don't think it's a police car, they're trying to stop me.
21:39
SPEAKER_00: Uh the the whoever answers the 911 call will be able to tell you if somebody's trying to pull you over, if if that person's a police officer, because they're supposed to call out their traffic stops.
21:50
SPEAKER_00: If not, they will put it out on the radio.
21:52
SPEAKER_00: Hey, is anybody trying to stop this car at this area?
21:56
SPEAKER_00: And and if not, they're gonna send an officer to you.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: If you don't have a phone, um I would just go to a well-lit area where there's there's people and there's witnesses and uh uh or drive to the police station.
22:11
SPEAKER_00: Um you're gonna piss the cop off.
22:16
SPEAKER_00: Uh but I wouldn't like speed away or try to elude.
22:19
SPEAKER_00: I would drive, you know, follow the traffic laws while you're going there.
22:23
SPEAKER_00: And I think when you if you explain afterwards that, hey, I didn't know you were a cop and that's why I came to the police station, I think you're gonna be okay.
22:30
SPEAKER_00: I think um hopefully they would understand that.
22:34
SPEAKER_00: Question 10 Is a police officer, is it important to trust your instincts?
22:39
SPEAKER_00: This is a great question, and I absolutely believe 100% that it is very important to trust your instincts.
22:46
SPEAKER_00: There's a book called The Gift of Fear by Gavin De Becker, and it talks about how you need to trust your instincts because those those weird feelings that you get are based on your perceptions, your unconscious perceptions of facts, right?
23:04
SPEAKER_00: So I had a traffic stop one night.
23:07
SPEAKER_00: It was it was creepy, there was a lot of fog around.
23:11
SPEAKER_00: This area was really, really dark.
23:12
SPEAKER_00: There was a full moon.
23:14
SPEAKER_00: It was like two or three in the morning, no traffic, really quiet.
23:18
SPEAKER_00: I pulled over this car.
23:22
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I just I just got a weird feeling.
23:25
SPEAKER_00: So I walked up.
23:26
SPEAKER_00: I stood behind the the back door on the driver's side and and contacted the guy, the the driver from there.
23:37
SPEAKER_00: So, as I said in an earlier episode, I was putting him at a position of disadvantage because he had to turn around and look at me.
23:44
SPEAKER_00: He didn't have a driver's license.
23:46
SPEAKER_00: He gave me his name, his date of birth.
23:49
SPEAKER_00: Nobody else in the car would look at me.
23:51
SPEAKER_00: I could see them, but I was back kind of behind that that the roof part of the car where I was using it for for cover.
24:00
SPEAKER_00: I had called for another car just because I was really freaked out by this whole thing.
24:05
SPEAKER_00: I go back, I run the plate, it's a temporary tag.
24:09
SPEAKER_00: So it either didn't come back or it came back to a different car.
24:13
SPEAKER_00: And uh, and the driver, there was no record of this person, even though he told me he had a driver's license.
24:18
SPEAKER_00: There was no record.
24:19
SPEAKER_00: So a couple more cars came and backed me up, and we we had the driver and the passenger step out one by one, brought them back.
24:28
SPEAKER_00: We didn't do a full-out high-risk felony stop.
24:31
SPEAKER_00: We didn't lay him down and prone them out or do any of that.
24:33
SPEAKER_00: We just brought him back to us, patted him down, set him down.
24:36
SPEAKER_00: I walked up to the car, and there was uh a revolver laying on the floor of the um back seat on the driver's side.
24:48
SPEAKER_00: So um, you know, we got that.
24:52
SPEAKER_00: I think three of the five people had warrants.
24:56
SPEAKER_00: Uh, the gun was stolen, the car was stolen, and the gun had like, I knew it was stolen because it had electrical tape wrapped around the handle.
25:05
SPEAKER_00: Uh, and usually that was a dead giveaway that that the gun was going to be stolen.
25:10
SPEAKER_00: So then in hindsight, when I thought about it, it wasn't the fog, it wasn't the dark, it wasn't the full moon that freaked me out.
25:16
SPEAKER_00: It was the fact that this template, it was real wrinkled and ragged and taped to the back window, and this was a really, really nice car.
25:24
SPEAKER_00: The suspicious behavior of the driver and the people that would not look at me, the passengers, nobody would would look at me or or try to make eye contact with me.
25:34
SPEAKER_00: Um, I think all of that played into the creepy feeling that I got.
25:39
SPEAKER_00: And I honestly think that if I had just walked up like a regular traffic stop and contacted the driver, that the rear seat passenger on the driver's side would have taken a shot at me.
25:49
SPEAKER_00: Um, obviously they all denied that was the plan, so we'll never know.
25:53
SPEAKER_00: But uh I think it's very important in anything that you do to trust your instincts and just understand that you know you're not you're not freaked out for no reason.
26:03
SPEAKER_00: A lot of times it's a lot of unconscious perceptions that you have that are causing you to be nervous or scared.
26:09
SPEAKER_00: So always consider that.
26:12
SPEAKER_00: Question 11: if you call the police for help and you have a warrant, are you going to be arrested?
26:17
SPEAKER_00: Uh yes, you are.
26:19
SPEAKER_00: If it's a it's a if it's an agency where everybody gets run um on the system, right?
26:25
SPEAKER_00: So the both the agencies, both the police departments that I work for, it was it wasn't policy, but you were you were uh encouraged to get IDs from everybody you're dealing with and run them in the system to see if they have any warrants or any restraining orders, uh, any of that stuff.
26:47
SPEAKER_00: So we went to this uh burglary, and this neighbor said, Hey, I saw this guy go into the garage.
26:57
SPEAKER_00: The garage door, the big door was up a little bit, and uh they said, I we know he doesn't live there, but he crawled in and he went in there.
27:05
SPEAKER_00: So we go in there, we open the inside garage door, we yelling, please, please, please come out, you know, come out and contact, come out here, et cetera, et cetera.
27:17
SPEAKER_00: The person didn't, so we started searching the house.
27:19
SPEAKER_00: We ended up finding the person in a bed on the second floor, pretending he was asleep.
27:24
SPEAKER_00: He wasn't.
27:25
SPEAKER_00: Um, but we got him out, got his ID, contacted the homeowner.
27:29
SPEAKER_00: The homeowner was like, Yeah, that's my nephew, and he's been staying with us.
27:32
SPEAKER_00: So we apologized, um, went back.
27:37
SPEAKER_00: My partner got in, ran him on the computer, and he had a warrant.
27:42
SPEAKER_00: So we went back up, knocked on the door, he answered it, and we arrested him.
27:46
SPEAKER_00: And he was not happy.
27:48
SPEAKER_00: But um basically, a a warrant is a judge's order that law enforcement has to arrest that person.
27:55
SPEAKER_00: So you don't have discretion.
27:56
SPEAKER_00: If you if you come across somebody with a warrant, it's not like you can tell them you need to go take care of that, or you're not supposed to.
28:04
SPEAKER_00: Um judges don't appreciate that when they've when they've signed a warrant for somebody and the police didn't arrest them.
28:14
SPEAKER_00: Question 13.
28:16
SPEAKER_00: Should you talk to the police if you're given your Miranda rights?
28:19
SPEAKER_00: I guess it depends on whether or not you committed the crime.
28:22
SPEAKER_00: If you did, you should probably just get a lawyer before talking to the police if it's a serious crime.
28:27
SPEAKER_00: If you didn't and you're accused of uh you're accused of something or being investigated, it's still not a bad idea to talk to a lawyer if it's a if it's a criminal case.
28:39
SPEAKER_00: But sometimes if you don't talk to the police, they're likely going to charge you based on the information that they have at the time that causes them to think that you're a suspect.
28:49
SPEAKER_00: I do know of a situation where had the person not spoken to the police, uh his lawyer initially encouraged him not to, he would have likely been charged with a really serious crime.
29:01
SPEAKER_00: Um so he convinced his lawyer to go in and let him talk to the police.
29:05
SPEAKER_00: He went in there, the DA's office was there, he told them his story, and his story was consistent, it was the truth.
29:13
SPEAKER_00: Um after they they did all their interviews, the DA decided not to press the charges.
29:20
SPEAKER_00: His lawyer was with him at the time, and um I think his lawyer told him later, he's like, I was just concerned because most of my clients are usually not telling the truth, they're not gonna be completely truthful.
29:34
SPEAKER_00: And the the you know, the cops they question people daily.
29:38
SPEAKER_00: So a lot of them know if you're lying.
29:41
SPEAKER_00: A lot of times they have enough information to be able to prove if you're lying.
29:45
SPEAKER_00: And even if it's just a small lie that's kind of seems irrelevant at the time, if your story changes and they figure out that you were lying about something, that really looks bad for you.
29:57
SPEAKER_00: So my advice, the bottom line is that if you didn't do what you're accused of and you tell the truth, it may be better to talk to the cops.
30:05
SPEAKER_00: Um, and again, that's gonna really depend on this the situation.
30:10
SPEAKER_00: Question 14 Do Miranda rights apply during a traffic stop?
30:14
SPEAKER_00: If a cop pulls you over, do they have to read you your Miranda rights?
30:18
SPEAKER_00: No.
30:19
SPEAKER_00: The case Berkmer v.
30:21
SPEAKER_00: McCarty says that uh when an individual is temporarily temporarily detained during a traffic stop, they're not required, the police are not required to give you your Miranda warnings.
30:33
SPEAKER_00: So the court basically said that temporary detention that's incident to a traffic stop is not the equivalent of being in police custody, um, which obviously, as I talked about in the Miranda podcast, that's one of the two factors that trigger Miranda.
30:49
SPEAKER_00: So there's also no legal requirement that the police tell you why you were pulled over.
30:54
SPEAKER_00: Again, I see this on social media all the time.
30:57
SPEAKER_00: It comes up, you have to tell me.
30:58
SPEAKER_00: You're required by law to tell me why you pull me.
31:02
SPEAKER_00: Really, the police aren't.
31:03
SPEAKER_00: You're gonna find out if you cause a scene because they're gonna give you a ticket and it's gonna be on there.
31:09
SPEAKER_00: That's gonna be why they pulled you over.
31:12
SPEAKER_00: But there's nothing unless their policy says, like, tell the person as soon as as you contact them.
31:19
SPEAKER_00: And and I usually did, but there are some cops that are just kind of stubborn about it.
31:23
SPEAKER_00: They want the driver's license, proof of it, proof of insurance, and registration before they'll tell you why they pulled you over.
31:29
SPEAKER_00: Um again, there's no legal requirement that they tell you.
31:34
SPEAKER_00: Uh, and it's just so much easier to comply and then deal with it later, either through internal affairs or the courts, then refusing to cooperate and acting like an entitled child.
31:45
SPEAKER_00: Um, also demanding a supervisor.
31:48
SPEAKER_00: I probably mentioned this before.
31:50
SPEAKER_00: The agencies I worked at, one of them uh did say in policy that if somebody wants a supervisor, you'll have them respond.
31:58
SPEAKER_00: There's no law that required it, obviously, and and you weren't gonna get in a whole lot of trouble if if you refused.
32:04
SPEAKER_00: But um the people automatically seem to think in social media that if they get pulled over, they're gonna demand they're gonna demand a supervisor be there.
32:14
SPEAKER_00: And I don't know why, because it never works out.
32:16
SPEAKER_00: The supervisor always takes the cop side when they get there and find out why the cop pulled them over.
32:22
SPEAKER_00: And it usually ends up in a an arrest and a fight and somebody getting bit by a dog if there's one there.
32:28
SPEAKER_00: It's just it's a mess.
32:30
SPEAKER_00: So um, I don't know.
32:32
SPEAKER_00: If you don't need a supervisor there, don't ask for one and don't expect one if you do.
32:40
SPEAKER_00: Question 15 Is it true if an officer doesn't show up to court that the case will be dismissed?
32:44
SPEAKER_00: It really depends on the on the case.
32:46
SPEAKER_00: If it's a traffic case, uh one of the agencies I worked for, you had to go and basically prosecute your own traffic tickets in the uh in the court.
32:57
SPEAKER_00: And so if you didn't show up as as a cop, obviously they would dismiss the case.
33:04
SPEAKER_00: So, but if the DA or the city attorney is prosecuting the case and the cop doesn't show up, and there's no other witnesses that can that can testify about what this person did, um yeah, a DA is likely to just dismiss it.
33:20
SPEAKER_00: Um just because you didn't show up, and there's no way they can prove a case beyond a reasonable doubt.
33:25
SPEAKER_00: Obviously, the courts are pretty reasonable when it comes to like you have a car accident or you're sick or or whatever, they they can continue the case.
33:33
SPEAKER_00: But um, yeah, I wouldn't count on an officer not showing up if you do get a ticket, because the agencies I work for, the policies were that you you absolutely had to sign the subpoena that was summonsing you to court and then you had to show up.
33:50
SPEAKER_00: And if you didn't, there were pretty serious sanctions, administrative sanctions against you if you didn't show up.
33:57
SPEAKER_00: Question 16 uh it's not really a question, but I saw a posting on social media saying that why do cops don't know the law, citizens know the law better than the police, police are violating your rights, and they're not held accountable, or do they hire cops that don't know the law?
34:15
SPEAKER_00: Um and I I again First Amendment auditors claim this all the time.
34:20
SPEAKER_00: They're saying that well, that's a battery or that's an assault.
34:23
SPEAKER_00: You know, in this state, there's no such thing as a crime of battery.
34:27
SPEAKER_00: So um, you know, they act like they throw these these legal terms out there and act like they know what they're talking about, and then they start calling the cops names and saying they're incompetent and they don't know what they're doing.
34:39
SPEAKER_00: But I will tell you, like, there's plenty of classes in every police academy that I'm aware of that um teach the law to cops.
34:52
SPEAKER_00: And even if if they if they don't know it without looking at a book, they've got the statute book so they can get online and look at the statute.
35:01
SPEAKER_00: Um, but the police are they're gonna know the law better than most um just typical typical citizens.
35:10
SPEAKER_00: I do have a funny story about people not understanding the law or or it's it's kind of related to that.
35:18
SPEAKER_00: So I tried I was trying to pull this car over one day.
35:20
SPEAKER_00: It was like probably three in the afternoon, uh pretty busy road.
35:25
SPEAKER_00: The tag was expired, and I like I'm not talking two days expired.
35:31
SPEAKER_00: This was expired like two years.
35:33
SPEAKER_00: So I hit my lights.
35:36
SPEAKER_00: Uh, I couldn't tell.
35:37
SPEAKER_00: It ended up being a lady driver, but I couldn't tell initially.
35:40
SPEAKER_00: And she looked in the mirror.
35:42
SPEAKER_00: The car was a mess.
35:44
SPEAKER_00: I think she'd been living in it.
35:46
SPEAKER_00: So she's she looked at me in the mirror, but she wouldn't pull over.
35:50
SPEAKER_00: So we're going down this busy roadway.
35:52
SPEAKER_00: Uh, she's doing the speed limit, she's obeying all traffic laws, stopping for red lights.
35:57
SPEAKER_00: I thought what she was trying to do was was to lure me out of my car so that she could take off.
36:03
SPEAKER_00: So I radioed for another car to come and get in front of her so we could kind of box her in.
36:08
SPEAKER_00: Uh like two or three miles down the road, we finally got her stopped.
36:11
SPEAKER_00: The other officer jumped out of his car, went in, grabbed it, grabbed her keys out of her car.
36:15
SPEAKER_00: And she's like, she asked me, What's going on?
36:18
SPEAKER_00: And I said, Well, you saw me behind you with my lights on, and she agreed.
36:22
SPEAKER_00: And I had been like making the siren intermittently, turn it on, just to let other cars know what was going on, and and so that if she didn't see me, she she would hear at least hear me.
36:35
SPEAKER_00: Um, she said she did see me, but she really she hadn't done anything wrong, so she didn't know that she had to stop.
36:42
SPEAKER_00: So she was genuinely confused when I told her, Well, you have to pull over for emergency vehicles.
36:48
SPEAKER_00: Um, like even if they're not pulling you over, they're trying to get somewhere, so you got to get out of their way.
36:52
SPEAKER_00: She goes, Oh, okay.
36:54
SPEAKER_00: And uh she said, but I she was adamant that she hadn't done anything wrong.
36:58
SPEAKER_00: She knew she didn't do anything wrong.
37:00
SPEAKER_00: So I told her her plates were expired for like for a couple of years, and she said, Well, yeah, I couldn't afford to get them renewed.
37:07
SPEAKER_00: So I basically told her I said, Well, you can't drive an unlicensed vehicle on the roadway, so you've got to get this, uh, you gotta get your tags up to date.
37:17
SPEAKER_00: And she's like, Okay.
37:18
SPEAKER_00: It was one of the strangest encounters I ever had doing a traffic stop.
37:24
SPEAKER_00: Um And that just I always think about that when I when I hear people say that they they know the law better than better than the cops.
37:36
SPEAKER_00: That's it for this episode.
37:38
SPEAKER_00: In the next episode, I'm gonna describe some more escapes that have worked because I wasn't able to fit them into the to the last episode.
37:46
SPEAKER_00: And uh thank you for listening and take care.