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Dispensationalism: Why Do People Hate the Word? | Gary and Mondo · The Week in Bible Prophecy

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  Speaker 1: The Week in Bible Prophecy a Prophecy Watchers Podcast.
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  Speaker 2: Welcome to the podcast today, everyone, Mondo Gonzalez here with
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  Speaker 2: Gary Steerman, and we're going to be talking about really
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  Speaker 2: what I think is a fascinating topic and the idea
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  Speaker 2: of dispensationalism and the fact that those even in a
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  Speaker 2: scholarly world, dispensationalism is a dirty word to many. It's
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  Speaker 2: a very hated word sometimes and despised. Gary, has that
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  Speaker 2: kind of been your impression over the years that people
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  Speaker 2: don't like the idea of dispensationalism.
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  Speaker 1: Absolutely, And I think the reason that they don't is
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  Speaker 1: because it sort of takes at the academic approach to
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  Speaker 1: the Bible and lowers it down in a notch into
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  Speaker 1: everyday conversation, sort of takes it out of the hands
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  Speaker 1: of the authorities and the scholastic class and puts it
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  Speaker 1: right down in the hands of mister and missus United States,
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  Speaker 1: if you will, Because what it does is explain the
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  Speaker 1: progress of the relationship between God and Man and how
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  Speaker 1: it changes from Genesis through revelation, and it puts it
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  Speaker 1: usually in seven categories that enable someone who is not
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  Speaker 1: a super Bible scholar to understand the relationship between God
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  Speaker 1: and man.
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  Speaker 3: I'll tell you what I mean.
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  Speaker 2: I think that teaching the idea of the dispensations to
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  Speaker 2: children or new believers is phenomenal because so I hope,
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  Speaker 2: you know, I hope you listeners you stick around today
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  Speaker 2: because I think if we as we explain what a
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  Speaker 2: dispensation is and how many there are and what it
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  Speaker 2: means theologically, I really think that you will get a
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  Speaker 2: great understanding.
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  Speaker 3: Of the entire Bible.
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  Speaker 2: And so, you know, let's jump in here for a minute, Gary,
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  Speaker 2: you know, and again before we deal, remind everybody that
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  Speaker 2: you can't make it in person, then you can certainly
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  Speaker 2: join us through livestream. Also want to ask people, if
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  Speaker 2: you're following this in a platform, that you can make
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  Speaker 2: sure to subscribe. We got some good stuff coming up
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  Speaker 2: over the next few months, as we know, things are
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  Speaker 2: heating up with the election and other things we're gonna
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  Speaker 2: be talking about. But Gary, if you don't mind, would
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  Speaker 2: you mind just reading a couple of passages here in
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  Speaker 2: the Book of Ephesians, chapter three, because let's just start
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  Speaker 2: out to the gate. The word dispensation is the it's
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  Speaker 2: in the Bible. Okay, it is in the Bible. And
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  Speaker 2: the word is economia, and it comes from two Greek
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  Speaker 2: words words oikos, meaning house, and nomia, which is law.
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  Speaker 2: So it's like the law of a house. So a
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  Speaker 2: dispensation is something that happens in a household. And this
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  Speaker 2: is the household of God. And how God is managing
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  Speaker 2: his household, which is the earth and the creation and
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  Speaker 2: the time that from the beginning of creation all the
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  Speaker 2: way to the end of time. How does God manage
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  Speaker 2: his house well? In the Bible we see these different eras,
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  Speaker 2: these different plans. The Greek word is translated into different ways.
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  Speaker 2: But God has very specific things that He's doing in
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  Speaker 2: each era and each person. And so Ephesians chapter three,
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  Speaker 2: verse two, and also verse nine, if you will carry.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, and just I would preface this by saying that
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  Speaker 1: Paul was a highly thought of academic. He was a
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  Speaker 1: Jewish scholar, and then he went through all of the
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  Speaker 1: stages necessary to bring him to the level of being
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  Speaker 1: the academic representative.
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  Speaker 3: Of the Church.
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  Speaker 1: And that's when you read a chapter three, verse one.
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  Speaker 1: He introduces himself for this cause, I Paul the prisoner
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  Speaker 1: of Jesus Christ. For you gentiles, Okay, I'm talking to
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  Speaker 1: you gentiles, if you have heard of the dispensation of
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  Speaker 1: the grace of God which is given me toward you.
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  Speaker 1: And so he tells them who he is, what the
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  Speaker 1: relationship is, and then how that by revelation he made
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  Speaker 1: known to me the mystery as I wrote before, in
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  Speaker 1: a few words by which when you read you may
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  Speaker 1: understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ. And so
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  Speaker 1: he's laying it out here. I have a special message
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  Speaker 1: for you, which was given by God from me to you,
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  Speaker 1: so that you can understand how God is working.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, and especially in the book of Ephesians, we see
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  Speaker 2: in Ephesians one to eleven that God has a plan
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  Speaker 2: from eternity past. He's working at all out and I
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  Speaker 2: think for those again, for those listening, what we're going
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  Speaker 2: to talk about today is how this plan of God
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  Speaker 2: has been working itself out throughout history, starting way back
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  Speaker 2: in the beginning at creation, all the way to the end.
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  Speaker 2: And a couple things that I think is important is
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  Speaker 2: that there's no doubt that dispensationalism today is very systematized.
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  Speaker 2: It's very organized. It's it's been thought about for a
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  Speaker 2: long time, several centuries for sure, and so today when
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  Speaker 2: you think about dispensationalism again, it's it's it's highly organized
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  Speaker 2: system of thought. But often I would say this, people
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  Speaker 2: think that this system of thought is forced on the text,
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  Speaker 2: and I think after today people will be like, oh,
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  Speaker 2: you know, that's not as force as I thought, because
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  Speaker 2: this is what I would say, Gary, everybody, you just
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  Speaker 2: read a passage of scripture. Everybody, if they believe the Bible,
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  Speaker 2: is a dispensationalist to some degree. The question argument always
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  Speaker 2: is is how many spensations are there? Well, there is
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  Speaker 2: at least three for everybody, and that is there was
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  Speaker 2: Adam and Eve before they sinned, there's Adam and Eve
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  Speaker 2: after they sinned, and then maybe if you add in
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  Speaker 2: the law, that's that's a third one. And then we're
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  Speaker 2: in the church today. Nobody's offering sacrifices today. That's true, right,
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  Speaker 2: so at least at the minimum, And I would say this,
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  Speaker 2: what I see out there with people is everybody gives
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  Speaker 2: at least some level of of of acknowledgment. Well, yeah,
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  Speaker 2: I'm not offering sacrifices. So clearly the dispensation which you
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  Speaker 2: just read in Ephesian three is different than the one
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  Speaker 2: under Moses and the one under the law in Israel.
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  Speaker 3: So it is in the Bible.
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  Speaker 2: But we're going to give a little bit more of
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  Speaker 2: some nuggets on it. The any any thoughts on that, Gary,
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  Speaker 2: because there's a lot to do here, But.
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  Speaker 1: Well, I have a thought right off up front, and
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  Speaker 1: that is, and you've you've studied Greek, and by the way,
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  Speaker 1: I enjoy the way you approach that. You know that
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  Speaker 1: you have done some deep dig digging in the in
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  Speaker 1: the Greek of the New Testament. And the word dispensation,
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  Speaker 1: I think we're right up front should define that oikono
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  Speaker 1: mea in Greek. And it really sounds to the to
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  Speaker 1: the English speaking ear o coin on mia sounds a
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  Speaker 1: little like economy. Some people does have drawn that that
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  Speaker 1: that comparison.
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  Speaker 2: I think it's a great one. The word economy comes
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  Speaker 2: from that word. The word administration comes at least rooted
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  Speaker 2: from the concept, and so that that's great. Is what
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  Speaker 2: is God's economy for Adam? What's a God's economy or
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  Speaker 2: his plan for Noah? What's God's administration for Abraham? And
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  Speaker 2: so that that that is really that's really important because
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  Speaker 2: when people right now today, when they look out they go, oh, well,
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  Speaker 2: you're a dispensationalist. You go, well, wait a minute, everybody again,
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  Speaker 2: as we said, everybody is and let me just say
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  Speaker 2: this too. That there there's I'm gonna make two comments here.
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  Speaker 2: One is that when you look at the pillars of
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  Speaker 2: dispensationalism today, this is important. Dispensationalism can be labeled and
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  Speaker 2: associated with a lot of things, but it basically has
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  Speaker 2: three pillars.
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  Speaker 3: That's it. There's three pillars.
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  Speaker 2: One is that if you're a dispensationalist, you generally see
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  Speaker 2: there's a distinction between Israel and the Church. Secondly, you
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  Speaker 2: take a normal grammatical, literal hermerneutic. You take the Bible
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  Speaker 2: in a straightforward way, and you don't really approach it
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  Speaker 2: allegorically figurative unless it's very obvious. And the third thing
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  Speaker 2: that dispensationalists stand for is that all things that God
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  Speaker 2: does are for his glory.
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  Speaker 3: That's it. Those are the three pillars.
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  Speaker 2: Now, you can have a charismatic dispensationalist, you can have
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  Speaker 2: a cessationist dispensation. You can have a reformed dispensationalist to
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  Speaker 2: some degree. You can have those that baptize babies, so
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  Speaker 2: any of those other things. You can have a Calvinist,
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  Speaker 2: you can have an art our mini is. So some
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  Speaker 2: people would say I reject dispensationalism because there are a
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  Speaker 2: bunch of Arminians, and you go, well, that's not really
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  Speaker 2: even integral to the whole point of dispensationalism is whether
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  Speaker 2: you're an Armenian or a Calvinist who cares that has
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  Speaker 2: nothing to do with this. The second thing is, I'll
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  Speaker 2: say this and I want to read something here is
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  Speaker 2: if you're dispensationalists, often people say, well, you believe in
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  Speaker 2: different ways of salvation throughout God's plan.
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  Speaker 3: From beginning to end. We a whoa, whoa, whoa.
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  Speaker 2: And so here here's a quote from Charles Rriy, and
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  Speaker 2: this is good. He says, the basis of salvation, the
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  Speaker 2: basis in every age is the death of Christ. Okay,
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  Speaker 2: the requirement for salvation in every age from the beginning
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  Speaker 2: is faith. The object of faith in every age is God.
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  Speaker 2: But the content of that faith changes in the various dispensations.
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  Speaker 2: And what that means is that Adam and Eve didn't
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  Speaker 2: understand for them to be saved, did they have to
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  Speaker 2: believe in Jesus's death on the cross and he was
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  Speaker 2: dead for three days and was buried dead and buried
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  Speaker 2: for three days. They didn't know anything about that, but
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  Speaker 2: they were still saved by faith and grace.
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  Speaker 1: Right, and faith and grace I think build almost exponentially
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  Speaker 1: through them as you go through the world. Yes, yeah,
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  Speaker 1: until you get to the four Gospels, and it's just
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  Speaker 1: put in four different ways along with the genealogy of
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  Speaker 1: Jesus two genealogies one and Mark, or in Matthew, one
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  Speaker 1: in Luke, and you have those two genealogies plus the
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  Speaker 1: initiation of the apostles, and what that's doing is essentially
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  Speaker 1: establishing a baseline for what God is doing next to man.
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  Speaker 1: And to understand that many many different courses have been
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  Speaker 1: taken down through the church age, shall we say, and
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  Speaker 1: not all of them kindly toward each other. There have
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  Speaker 1: been revolutions throughout the church age, and there have been
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  Speaker 1: denominations that sought to control everything that was being taught
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  Speaker 1: on the basis of one man's interpretation. And the Church
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  Speaker 1: then has gone through all the way up to the
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  Speaker 1: twentieth century, has gone through a number of adjustments, social adjustments.
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  Speaker 1: But when you get to I believe we're in the
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  Speaker 1: end times. When you get to the end times, things
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  Speaker 1: have start to be started to be nailed down a bit.
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  Speaker 1: And when you nail something down that you're going to
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  Speaker 1: have a little bit of a discuss about how it
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  Speaker 1: gets nailed down. And that's why we're talking about this
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  Speaker 1: subject right now, because we're I think in the era
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  Speaker 1: of the Church where people are saying, Okay, we've arrived,
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  Speaker 1: We've come through all of these ages, and here we are,
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  Speaker 1: and this is what's happening, and this is what's happening.
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  Speaker 1: Is what the dispensational study is all about.
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  Speaker 3: Absolutely.
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  Speaker 2: And you brought up another word there which goes along
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  Speaker 2: with oikonomia. Againonomia is again whether it's a plan, an administration,
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  Speaker 2: and economy a dispensation. But the other word, the other
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  Speaker 2: Greek word is ion, which is the word Age. And
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  Speaker 2: we see this in Matthew twenty eight as an example.
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  Speaker 2: Jesus gives a great commission and he's telling them to
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  Speaker 2: go out and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them
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  Speaker 2: and teaching them all the things that Jesus commanded, and
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  Speaker 2: then he says, and behold, I am with you to
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  Speaker 2: the end of the age.
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  Speaker 3: So he's bringing up a.
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  Speaker 2: Concept there that there is an age, and there are
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  Speaker 2: different ages in the Bible. And so what's important is
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  Speaker 2: when we look at the scripture, as we mentioned, everybody
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  Speaker 2: agrees on a few of them. And so all that
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  Speaker 2: dispensationalism has sought to do, dispensational scholars has sought to do,
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  Speaker 2: is to say, well, what's the consistent pattern in the
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  Speaker 2: Bible through all these And we have here on the
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  Speaker 2: desk a book by William Watson Dispensationalism before Darby, because
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  Speaker 2: he talks and he recognizes that. The claim is that
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  Speaker 2: dispensationalism started with John Darby in the eighteen thirties, and
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  Speaker 2: there's no doubt that he wrote about it, but people
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  Speaker 2: going all the way back to you know, Calvin and
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  Speaker 2: others in the Puritans, everybody sought to understand how God
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  Speaker 2: interacts again, very very blatant. How are we different than
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  Speaker 2: the law of the time of the law. You know,
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  Speaker 2: why are we doing sacrifices? Are we supposed to build
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  Speaker 2: a temple? And so everybody's recon to how this has happened.
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  Speaker 2: So what we want to share today everybody is that,
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  Speaker 2: according to modern scholars, there are seven dispensations, which seven
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  Speaker 2: is a good complete number, and these this is not
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  Speaker 2: just an arbitrary number. It's when you look at the scripture,
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  Speaker 2: there there and nothing is dogmatic here, but it's hey, look,
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  Speaker 2: there seems to be seven distinct eras or ages that
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  Speaker 2: are in the scripture from the Book of Genesis all
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  Speaker 2: the way into Revelation twenty. And then each dispensation has
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  Speaker 2: several facets, and so there's different names for these. We'll
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  Speaker 2: talk about them. But you have in each dispensation, you
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  Speaker 2: have a name, you have a chief person, you have
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  Speaker 2: man's responsibility within that age.
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  Speaker 3: You also have a specific test.
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  Speaker 2: You have man failing that test, you have a judgment
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  Speaker 2: on man for failing that test, and then you have
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  Speaker 2: displays of God's grace. So let's jump in Gary, because
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  Speaker 2: the first one has different names, but the typical name
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  Speaker 2: for it is the dispensation of innocence or freedom, which
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  Speaker 2: involves Adam Nieves's creation all the way up until the
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  Speaker 2: time that they before they sin. So it's this age
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  Speaker 2: of innocence before they have sinned. And obviously what happened
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  Speaker 2: with them prior to them sinning. God gave them some instructions, right,
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  Speaker 2: He gave them some responsibility and some tests to do.
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  Speaker 1: And out of innocence came, if you will, an ages long,
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  Speaker 1: a series of refinements. We're still engaged in those right now.
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  Speaker 1: And I always ask people, you know, why do you
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  Speaker 1: think that God created the garden of Eden? You know,
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  Speaker 1: a nice place, wonderful, ideal, and then he created man
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  Speaker 1: woman and put them in the garden, and along came
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  Speaker 1: Satan attempted the woman, And do you think God knew
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  Speaker 1: in advance that that was going to happen? Of course,
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  Speaker 1: the question is, well, why did he do that? Why
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  Speaker 1: did he arrange this situation which resulted in the sin
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  Speaker 1: of Eve followed by her husband Adam, and then a
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  Speaker 1: series a genetic line that comes out of Adam and
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  Speaker 1: Eve and goes up to let's just take it up
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  Speaker 1: to Noah, and you have you have outside interlopers interfering
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  Speaker 1: with man uh, the the errant sons of God that
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  Speaker 1: came down and messed up the scene. And so what
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  Speaker 1: was happening in the this era of that's called innocence?
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  Speaker 1: What was what was God attempting to do there? He's
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  Speaker 1: attempting to start what will become salvation for mankind.
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  Speaker 3: No doubt we see that.
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  Speaker 2: It's funny if people do a study on Ephesians one
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  Speaker 2: is a great chapter, but you see it over is
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  Speaker 2: this happened before time began. We were chosen in him
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  Speaker 2: before the world began. The lamb was slain before the
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  Speaker 2: foundation of the world. You know, the Father loved the
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  Speaker 2: son before the foundation of the world. So you have
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  Speaker 2: all these things. So Ephesians one eleven again in him
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  Speaker 2: also we have obtained an inheritance.
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  Speaker 3: This is in Jesus.
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  Speaker 2: In Jesus, we have also obtained an inheritance, being predestined
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  Speaker 2: according to the purpose of Him who works all things
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  Speaker 2: according to the council of his will. So, you know,
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  Speaker 2: people need to get distracted by the word predestined. It's
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  Speaker 2: in the Bible. Here it is, and it appears several times.
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  Speaker 2: But the main thing here is according to the purpose
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  Speaker 2: of Him who works all things according to the council
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  Speaker 2: of his will. So you have several words here. Does
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  Speaker 2: God have a purpose? Does he work all things? Is
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  Speaker 2: it according to the council his own wisdom, of his will,
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  Speaker 2: of his desire? Yes, So from the beginning, before the
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  Speaker 2: foundation of the world, God's like, I got a plan, right,
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  Speaker 2: and I'm going to put it in practice and put
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  Speaker 2: it in place here. But it included, as you said,
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  Speaker 2: these interlopers, at least Satan himself who shows up. But
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  Speaker 2: when Adam and Eve first were created, he told him,
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  Speaker 2: you know, go multiply and you have you have one
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  Speaker 2: specific prohibition. Don't eat of the one tree. And you
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  Speaker 2: see this some people call this the Edenic covenant in
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  Speaker 2: Genesis one twenty seven to twenty nine. But there's a consequence.
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  Speaker 2: If you don't do this, you're gonna die. And so
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  Speaker 2: they were innocent. They were free from sin. And as
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  Speaker 2: we know the way the story goes, they they ate
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  Speaker 2: of it. Satan tempted, they failed, death came. Spiritual death
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  Speaker 2: came immediately, and then of course the death within their
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  Speaker 2: body began to make its way. We know Romans five twelve,
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  Speaker 2: death entered through Adam. But in the midst of that
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  Speaker 2: there was grace displayed. So this is like the first
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  Speaker 2: dispensation of innocence. It started with again Adam and ends
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  Speaker 2: with grace in that once they sinned, God didn't obliterate them.
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  Speaker 1: No, that first, that first iteration innocence in the garden
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  Speaker 1: terminated with sin, and along came another period of time
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  Speaker 1: that has a different name.
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  Speaker 3: It has a different name.
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  Speaker 1: Yes, man was instructed by God to go out, be fruitful, multiply,
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  Speaker 1: obey me and those who follow me and acknowledge me.
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  Speaker 1: And you are charged now with this responsibility which brings
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  Speaker 1: another dispensation, and it's commonly called the dispensation of conscience.
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  Speaker 1: In other words, God moved the burden over to the
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  Speaker 1: conscious conscience of mankind and said it's up to you
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  Speaker 1: now to do what I want you to do. Yea,
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  Speaker 1: And now was man successful.
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  Speaker 2: That's the thing, is what you see in all of
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: these Again, this consistency Romans two is very clear about
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: gentiles operating in corner of their conscience. And so God
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: the conscience isn't amazing. I think that's a whole philosophical discussion.
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: But mankind has a conscience which God gave them and
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: they there was no law at this time, right, and
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: we see this in the Book of Romans, that transgression
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: cannot be applied or to a person's account if there's
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: no law, but sins still reigned. That's the whole goal
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: of Romans five. But as we move into the dispensation
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: of conscience or self determination, we see again the chief
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: person is Adam. His responsibility was to submit to the
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: Genesis three components. He was going to live by the
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: sweat of his brow. The woman was going to have
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: trouble in birth, and they were too again multiply and
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: also to we can see there very clearly there was
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: some level of sacrifice that was to take place that
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: was to be operated by faith, because we see that
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: God killed the animals and covered them up with tunics
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: of skin, soa death shows up after they sinned. And
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: then you see a specific test again living up and
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: offering sacrifices. Well, what do we see what was the failure? Well,
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: Caine obviously didn't bring his offering of blood. He wanted
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: he wanted to do it his own way. And then
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: you come to Genesis sixty five, where everybody did wickedness
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: from the time they were young, all the intents of
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: their heart were wicked. So what you see there is
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: now a failure of man. And what's the judgment. Well,
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: the judgment certainly was the flood. And then in this
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: which I find interesting you probably do too, Gary, that
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: the display of grace in this time, which is basically
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: Genesis three nine through Genesis eight fourteen, we have displays
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: of grace in that Enoch was raptured, he was caught
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: up yes to God's throne. He was obviously walked with
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: gods and Noah. Noah found grace Genesis sixty nine. So
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: we do see God's again, we see judgment, but even
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: in the midst of judgment, we see God's grace in
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: each dispensation.
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: But this dispensation was terminated in a very sharp way
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: by the flood. By the flood, you talk about a
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: sharp division in history that a world flood has to
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: be it. And then after the flood, mankind descended to
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: Earth and he was given a response, a position of
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: responsibility by God, and man I think was charged with
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: a responsibility that we can look back and say that
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: was almost too much for him because and it did
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: turn out to be too much for him. And that's
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: the dispensation, the third one of human government.
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: Of human government.
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and you read this era after the flow of
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: the earth dries out in big cities and high populations
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: and trade and all kinds of interactions and their dynasties
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: and kings and so forth and so on and wars
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: and death and famines and everything, and through it all
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: man is charged with making a good showing, shall we say,
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: being responsible. And I think the idea of dispensationalism is
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: simply to explain what man is doing at each stage
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: of human history.
• 23:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: And I think all of us know that the Bible
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: from all sixty six books wasn't just plopped on the
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: ground and had it an add we understand what's at
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: least in theology, that which is called progressive revelation, where
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: God is revealing more of his plan progressively through the
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: time periods, through ages, through people. And again what we
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: see in the dispensation of human government. The chief person
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: there again is Noah. It's called a covenant. In Genesis
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: chapter nine, they were given instructions to spread out over
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: the earth. They were also given new instructions as it
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: relates to food, where everything prior to this was vegetarian.
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: But he says, now you can eat anything you want,
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: but don't drink the blood. That's the one prescription. And
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: he also gives them in Genesis nine the requirement for
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: the death penalty for murder. And this is where it
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: talks about human government in that mankind. Now, God says
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: very clearly, if someone murders somebody else, because they're made
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: in the image of God, mankind was charged charged to
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: bring capital punishment on that person through human hands. So
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: you have at least a capital punishment institution here going
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: all the way back to Noah. And that's why I
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: think this is still applicable today, by the hand of man,
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: that that capital punishment was to be instilled on somebody
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: who murdered, which again would help with a certain level
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: of deterrence for sure, I think as well. So let's
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: talk about the specific test. Well, they were to fill
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: the earth and disperse. Well, how they fail. Well, they
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: built the Tower of Babel and said we're going to
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: all stay right here, We're going to build a name
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: for ourselves. We are not going to disperse. Well, then
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: what was man's judgment? Again, these are all very consistent
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: themes throughout each dispensation. Well, God judged them by forcing
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: the dispersion, by bringing in multiple languages. And what about
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: a display of grace in the third dispensation, Well, we
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: see at the end of chapter eleven, so this is
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: Genesis eight fifteen through eleven thirty two, we see the
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: writer introducing the line of Terra, and specifically the line
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: of Abraham.
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: And when you say Abraham, everything changes. You know, you
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: have innocence, you have a man in his conscious, you
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: have the flood and human government. And now suddenly Abraham
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: is born, and you start reading about Abraham and his
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: descendants and all of the things that transpired down through
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: the ages, down through the years of centuries, I should say,
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: and you're not talking about the same kind of a
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: world anymore. The relationship between God and man has changed
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: after Abraham was born.
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, to me, let's think about this in a very
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: interesting way. Is that with the hundreds of millions of
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: people on the earth at the time of the Tower
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: babble and they rebelled against God, and then they dispersed
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: and they begin to again have their languages and their
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: particular separate cultures. In one sense, God is God. We
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: don't see any evidence. Well, as I say, we see
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: very little evidence in the text from this point forward
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: where God is sending prophets to any of these other nations.
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: He says, you know what, you guys werebelled against me.
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: Now I'm picking one man, and from this one man,
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: I'm going to put my energies in. I'm going to
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: make promises to this one guy named Abraham, and I'm
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: going to begin to fulfill my plan of redemption for humanity.
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: And this is why when you come really to Genesis
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: twelve one. So the dispensation of promise or dispensation of
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: patriarch goes from Genesis twelve to one really through Exodus eighteen,
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: and the chief person is Abraham, and we would include
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: Isaac and Jacob. Their responsibility was sustain the land and
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: to believe the promises of God.
• 27:57
  Speaker 3: The test as well.
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: Was to stay in the land. Well, what they do
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: They left the land. Abraham left went to Egypt. We know,
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: Jacob went into Mesopotamia. Well, what was the judgment. Well,
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: they ended up in Egyptian bondage and the display of
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: God's grace. Obviously God has graces to Abraham, Isaac and
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: Jacob even though they were sinners, and eventually they became
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: they were delivered out of the Exodus. But let's go
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: back here to Abraham for a minute, because it's in
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: this era Gary where God makes these promises to in
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: Genesis twelve three, let's talk about those I'm gonna bless you,
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and you have Abraham. Isaac Jacob comes along and
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: has that famous all night wrestling match with the Angel,
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: and his name is changed to Israel. Yes, and suddenly
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: you're looking into the far future of the twelve Tribes.
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: They go all the way through the Book of Revelation.
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: And when you then look at at Isaac Jacob, Israel
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: and the Twelve Tribes, you have really you've got a
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: long distance kind of an observation of where man is going,
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: and God is crafting and molding the direction of humanity
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: through a series of steps. And again I would just
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: urge people to think of dispensations as kind of steps
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: in the development of mankind.
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: Well, because now again what we've been seeing is God
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: revealing more and more of his plan. I mean, he
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: revealed to Adam and Eve about the in Genesis three fifteen,
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: he revealed that their deliver would come from the seat
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: of the woman, so it would be that the deliver
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: would be a human. And then later in Genesis nine
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: we see that the salvation line is through well, certainly
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: through Noah and also through Shem. Abraham was one of
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: Shem's descendants. And then when we come to this spensation here,
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: now all of a sudden, God is saying, I'm going
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: to well, I'll read it. If this is Genesis twelve one,
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: I'll read one through three. Now the Lord had said
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: to Abraham, get out of your country, from your family,
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: and from your father's house, to a land that I
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: will show you. I will make you a great nation.
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: I will bless you and make your name great, and
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: you shall be a blessing. I will bless those who
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: bless you, I will curse those who curse you. And
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: in you, all the families of the earth shall be blessed.
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: And so later we see in Genesis thirteen and fifteen
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: and seventeen, here he's saying, I'm going to go to
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: a land that I'm going to show you. Well, then
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: he shows up in the land and God makes these
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: promises to him. See all the land go out, look
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: around east to west. I'm giving you and your descendants
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: this land forever. It's a promise. And so this is
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: where we come into the age or the dispensation, or
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: the age of the patriarchs, because there's no law yet,
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: there's no commandments, but they were to believe the promises.
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: We see in Genesis fifteen that it's the greatest passage
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: that we see of faith. Abraham believed God and to
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: him who was counted to righteousness. Paul quotes US and
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: Romans four, and we see it in other passages. So
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: what we're seeing here is now God is revealing to
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: you talked about the interlopers, right.
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: So the spiritual realm, the evil spiritual realm.
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: They're going, whoa, well, who's this Abraham guy? Now wait,
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: it goes to Isaac, and then it goes to Jacob,
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: and so now they're able to see that God is
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: focusing in his plan of redemption for all of humanity.
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: But now it's through one family.
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: And then you come to something that is just like this.
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: It's like the fist in the pall. Moses comes along, Yes,
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: and to Moses is given the law.
• 31:45
  Speaker 3: The fifth dispensation, the fifth dispensation.
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: And when you think of law, what do you think of.
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: Well, I think of yeah, watch out, I'm not obedient enough.
• 31:54
  Speaker 3: I'm going to be in trouble.
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: The law doesn't.
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: The law shows no mercy. You know, God shows mercy.
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: But the law is a strong fist six hundred and
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: thirteen commandments exactly.
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah, dos, and don'ts now.
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: What we're doing here is talking about dispensationalism in very
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: common sense terms. There's nothing arcane about it.
• 32:15
  Speaker 3: We're not forcing anything in the text. It says it
• 32:18
  Speaker 3: right here, that's right there.
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: And when you come to Moses and you come to
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: everything that happened during the life of Moses, it changed everything.
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: It's still rolling down through the ages to us today.
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: And as we're talking, I'm thinking of Israel and poor
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: Israel going through the anguish help for the umpteenth time.
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: The world against Israel is a continuing theme, and it
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: began with Moses and the law.
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, so when we come to the dispensation of laws,
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: that's the name Exodus chapter nineteen, really all the way
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: into Acts chapter one, the chief person is Moses. The
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: man's responsibility, or at least Israel's responsibility through This is
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: the Mosaic Covenant six one hundred and thirteen commandments. The
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: specific test for them was to obey the law, but
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: also to listen. Deuteronomy eighteen through twenty, Moses makes the
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: claim God is going to raise up a prophet like Moses,
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: and to him you show here. So there's a Messianic
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: flavor there that, hey, everybody, you're to follow the law,
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: but when that prophet like Moses shows up, you better
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: listen to him. We see that they failed. We see
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: this in Romans ten, that they failed to obey the law,
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: and they also sought to create a righteousness of their own,
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: and they also rejected the Messiah.
• 33:45
  Speaker 3: As we know, well, what was the judgment.
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: Well, Jesus said in Luke nineteen Matthew twenty three other
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: passages that at the end of his ministry the last week,
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: he says, your house is left desolate, and then, as
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: we know the seventy a d that house was completely destroyed.
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: The house itself, as well as the entire kingdom of Israel,
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: was removed from the earth because of the rejection of
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: Jesus the Messiah. But in the midst of that, God
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: was still showing grace all throughout the Law, he was
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: pre sending prophets, he was giving them further revelation. Again,
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: we know later that in Second Samuel seven that the
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: Messiah then would come through David, right through the dividic covenant.
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: So God was specifically through the tribe of Judah, then David,
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: the line of David, and then he goes on. So
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: God is continually showing and that the fallen angels are
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: paying attention. Hey it's that guy. Now, let's focus. We've
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: got to kill all the descendants so that the Messiah
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: can't come. And that's the dispensation of Law going all
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: the way through from Moses until really the time of Jesus.
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: Until another man is born. Moses was born, everything changed,
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: but the next birth is unbelievably consequential, and that is
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: the birth of the Lord Jesus Christ. Yes, and you
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: talk about a new dispensation in other words, when Christ
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: came into human flesh. That's a line, a historical line
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: when everything changed. And when you talk about dispensationalism, you're
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: simply describing God's method of extending his love towards mankind.
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: And fulfilling his plan of redemption. I mean again, as
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: we said. We started this by saying that God certainly
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: knows all things. But God, God's not passive.
• 35:46
  Speaker 3: He's very active.
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: He has a plan, right, we read it effusions, what
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: love it. He has this eternal plan that he's working
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: all things in order to fulfill it. And it includes
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: these stages, that's another helpful word, these stages of regressive
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: revelation and the sixth dispensation. The sixth age, it's called
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: the dispensation of grace basically from Acts chapter two all
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: the way through Jesus's second coming. And we see that
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: it's appropriate because in James one seventeen we see that
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: the law came through Moses, but grace and truth came
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: through Jesus Christ. And so the chief person in this
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: age honestly was Paul. Because Paul, you know, he writes
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: at least thirteen letters of the New Testament. He's the one,
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: as you were reading in Ephesian three talking about the
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: dispensation that the stewardship is another way to say it,
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: that was given to Paul in preaching about the worldwide
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: message of the gospel. The gospel wasn't only to go
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: to the Jews, it was to go to all nations. Right,
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: that's the great commission. We see what's man's responsibility. Well,
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: man's responsibility during this age is Acts seventeen thirty. God
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: commands all all men everywhere to repent and to believe
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: the Gospel. And that's the specific test is it's always
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: comes to anybody.
• 37:07
  Speaker 3: Here's the gift of salvation. Will you accept it? Yes
• 37:10
  Speaker 3: or no?
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: Well, we see that for the most part, man has failed.
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: And what we also see as we approach the end
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: of this age, the church is in a state of apostsey.
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: And let me say this about the Church. Like all
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: the other time periods before it, which we have come
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: to call dispensations, the age of the Church is strictly limited.
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: You can time the instant that it came to life
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: when Jesus was born, and you can time the instant
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: that it terminates, which will be the rapture of the Church.
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: And so that is a very very clear cut period
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: of time in the history of the world. God has
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: his way of working with mankind through a series of
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: steps to reach a goal, and we of course read
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: about that goal in the Bible, and at the end
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: of the Bible.
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: Yep, I find it fascinating it, you know, as you know, Gary,
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: I'm not.
• 38:12
  Speaker 3: A date setter at all.
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: However, I would say this, I find it interesting that
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: the Lord has allowed this dispensation of grace or another
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: other people call it the Church age, you know, beginning
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: roughly around thirty three a d. And we're coming up
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: on a two thousand year marker, you know, and you
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: think about that, we are you know, we're in twenty
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: twenty four, we're nine years, We're nineteen hundred and ninety
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: one years into the Church Age. That's a long time
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: that God has allowed the Gospel to go out into
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: all the world. And no matter how you look at it,
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: you know, Jesus said, Lo, I'm with you. Behold, I'm
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: with you and till the end of the age. So
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: we are coming to the end of the church age
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: or the dispensation of grace. And as man has failed.
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: We talked about that that not only does man the
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: wholesale rejection of the Gospel, for the most part, very
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: few are saved. The Church has come to a place
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: of apostasy itself through the last couple hundred years.
• 39:16
  Speaker 3: Well what's the judgment.
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: Well, the judgment at the end of this age is
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: the great tribulationbulation, seven year tribulations, very very distinct marker.
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: The last seven years of this age is going to
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: be that. But yet, what's this again? God has shown
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: his display of grace in every age, and one of them,
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: or at least two of them, is the rapture of
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: the Church is a great display of grace.
• 39:40
  Speaker 3: Uh.
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: And it also even during the tribulation period, God is
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: still offering salvation by grace during that time and many
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: people get saved.
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: Indeed, absolutely Now, so you're saying now, just to be
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: very very clear, the age of grace began at the
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: birth of Christ.
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: At least of the Church, most scholars would say at
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: the birth of the Church on Pentecost.
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: And that at the other end you have the rapture
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: followed by the early years of the tribulation. Yeah, and
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: there are tribulations, Saints, there are tribulations. So just to
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: be clear, now, this this era in which we live
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: currently is still it's nearing its end.
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: It's nearing its end, yep. And I think you'll you
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: will see it. And maybe it was unfortunate I said it.
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: You know, we talk about the Church age, but I
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: think if you look at most of the scholars, they
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: would say, it's it's not specifically the Church age, even
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: though the church is involved.
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I use that term well, and I.
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: Do too, and it's it's helpful, But it's the age
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: of grace because we know that even during the tribulation,
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: grace is being extended, even though there's judgment, Grace is
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: being extended to those people who are getting saved. We
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: know the Great Multitude, Revelation seven and others and so,
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: and ultimately Jesus comes back, and so most, I would say,
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: most dispensationals would say that the Age of Grace ends
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: at Revelation nineteen when Jesus returns, because there still is
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: grace being offered, which then again that leads us into
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: the seventh dispensation, which is often called the dispensation of
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: the Kingdom or the millennium.
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: Indeed, and the millennium is spelled out both in the
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: Old Testament and the New Testament lots. Yeah, yeah, and
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: it is the goal. It is the time when God says, okay, mankind,
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: you've had all these thousands of years. Now there's going
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: to be another period of time that's thousand years in length,
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: and I'm going to show you what you should have done.
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: This is really, this is what all humanity, besides heaven itself,
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: this is what all humanity has been waiting for. And
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: this is you know, when you think about again, who's
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: the chief person, Well, the Messiah Jesus, no doubt, he's
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: the king of king's lord of lords. What's man's responsibility
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: during this thousand year dispensation is obedience to the king.
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: We see this as well in Zachari fourteen, where the
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: Feast of Tabernacles is reintroduced and it says that representatives
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: from the nations again, the earth will be filled with
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: various nations, but they have to send representatives to Jerusalem
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles. If they don't, God
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: will withhold rain from their lands. And so the other
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: thing that I think is interesting, So the specific test
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: during this period is to accept the gospel. There's going
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: to be people who are still born as little children
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: during this period. Believers in their natural bodies are going
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: to live. They'll live the entire time, they'll be having child,
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: they'll be married and given a marriage. We will be
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: in our glorified bodies, so we won't be participating in
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: that but those in Matthew twenty five that survive that
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: the sheep and the goat judgment, the sheep will go
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: into the King, them in their natural, normal bodies and
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: begin to have children, and it'll be abundant.
• 43:04
  Speaker 3: The whole world will be abundant.
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: But as these children are born, they're going to have
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: the opportunity to accept or reject the gospel. What's the
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: man's failure during this time, Well, not everybody believes. We
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: also see that the Bible says in Psalm Too and
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: other Revelation nineteen that Jesus will rule with the rot
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: of iron. Well, God doesn't rule Michael and gabrielule in
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: heaven with the lot of iron. They're obedient angels. But
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: so what it tells us is that even though Satan
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: is bound in Revelation twenty and it chained up during
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: that thousand years, Sin still dwells in these people who
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: are born, and so there's no external temptation. Satan and
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: the demons are gone, but Sin has an internal wickedness,
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: evilness that's going to creep up.
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and it should be added, I'll let you wax
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: eloquent on this one. At the very end of the Bible.
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: There is judgment, yes, before of the announcement of the
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: creation that new heavens and new earths. So all of
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: these periods of time that we're calling dispensations are working
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: up to a final judgment.
• 44:14
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: And so what you see during the tribulation or during
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: the millennial period is a couple things. You see Jesus
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: ruling and reigning from Jerusalem. You see a new temple
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: that he builds an easy co forty through forty eight,
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: complete topography changes.
• 44:27
  Speaker 3: Zachary fourteen.
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: There's a valley that's created between you know, the amount
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: of olives, and it's really amazing.
• 44:33
  Speaker 3: Isaiah eleven.
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: We see the wolf lay down with the lamb. We
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: see the lion eating straw like an ox. We see
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: the children playing by snakes, no problems, nothing's going to harm,
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: and all of God's holy mountain. So you see these
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: environmental changes, and you see Jesus being right there. But
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: all throughout the thousand years Isaiah sixty five is a
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: great passage on this too. But at the end, this
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: failure comes in that Satan is released for a short
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: period of time. After a thousand years, he goes and
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: he now is beginning this external temptation. After period of time,
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: he creates a rebellion. These group of people are on
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: their way to the city of Jerusalem in order to
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: overthrow Jesus. You're like, seriously, after everything you've seen, Satan
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: deceives them, and the judgment. God says, I'm not even tolerated.
• 45:26
  Speaker 3: Done over.
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: End of the dispensation. And then we see the Great
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: White Throne judgment. And now we transition from these seven
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: dispensations under normal circumstances in Revelation, then into Revelation twenty
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: one into the eternal state.
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and all of this is God's loving way of
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: allowing man to experience his grace. Beginning with Adam and
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: e as Webs a minute ago, he said, you know,
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: here's here's a garden. I just I'm just asking one thing,
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: don't eat that particular fruit over there, knowing of course
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: that they would. And in the ensuing decades, millennia, in
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: the ensuing periods of time, God would take man through
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: various stages of development, all the way up to the
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: one you just described at the end of the Book
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: of Revelation. And at that point he says, enough, this
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: is it.
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: Yep, you know you talk often. I know it's one
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: of your favorite subjects, you know. One John four eight
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: one John four sixteen. God is love, love, And so
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: here we are in the garden the dispensation of innocence,
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: when Adam and Eve in their free will, truly free,
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: unencumbered by sin, and he says, listen, I'm going to
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: begin my plan for humanity to show my love. But
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: also he desires for that love to be reciprocated freely,
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: and so we see he gives them an opportunity, with
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: Adam and Eve to respond in a way out of
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: their own again their own free will, to love God
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: back and to worship him. And we know the story.
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: We know that it didn't end well. But God also
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: knew that it wouldn't end well. But it would it
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: would It would further his plan to show his great
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: love for us again in sending the Lord Jesus down
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: to become human. And I would say this, I want
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: to get your thoughts on this is that when we
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: think about angels, angels are amazing. There's no doubt. We
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: don't know the half of it right right, But we
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: also know in Hebrews chapter two that Hebrews one and
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: two that God did not set the world to come.
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: That's a very rabbinic phrase. But Hebrews uses the world
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: to come into the charge of angels. He's putting the
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: world to come into the hands of humanity, and so salvation.
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: Salvation is for humanity alone. And in order to accomplish that,
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: Jesus didn't become an angel. He became a human, not
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: not just temporarily, He's a human forever. That's the level
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: of God's commitment to humanity and his love to say, look,
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: not only do I love you as a creation, but
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: my son is going to become a human. He's going
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: to take on humanity. Of course, he'll always be God,
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: but he's going to take on humanity forever and become
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: one of us. To me talk about love and family,
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: and that's commitment.
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: It is commitment. And the background upon which this whole
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: thing is built is the background of sin and rebellion
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: and all of the evil things that can go wrong.
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: And God is essentially announcing, i think, to all of
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: us who will study the Word, He's announcing that, hey,
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: I'm not giving anything away. I want you to recognize
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: who I am and to be obedient to me and
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: to have a relationship with me, and that relationship is
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: built upon overcome difficulty, which is the theme of the
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: entire Bible, overcoming difficulty, and He gives us the grace
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: to do it through the Holy Spirit. And that that's
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: the story behind the dispensations, if you will. Each one
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: of the dispensations describes how God is allowing man to
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: come to him on a kind of a face to
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: face basis.
• 49:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's let's reiterate that there isn't even though
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: it gets labeled that way, it's a false accusation.
• 49:36
  Speaker 3: Dispensation does not teach that.
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: There's different ways of salvation, all right, it's always again,
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: it's always by faith, it's always by grace. The object
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: of faith is always God. But in each in each era,
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: the content of that faith. I mean, what did it
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: take for Abraham to be saved? He had to believe
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: God's promises. You know what does it take for an
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: Israelite to be saved in one thousand and eight, Well,
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: he had to he had to come by faith, offer
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: his sacrifice. The sacrifice doesn't take away sin, we know
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: the Hebrews ten four. But he came by faith, and
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: God saw the faith and said, Okay, because of your faith,
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: you did an act, but you had faith that this.
• 50:09
  Speaker 3: Act would provide you forgiveness.
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: I'm going to give you forgiveness on credit because of
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: we know Jesus would come later in this dispensation. We
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: have faith in what Jesus did on the cross. It's
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: the same thing in the millennium. It's always by faith.
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: And so these accusations against dispensations, I think.
• 50:26
  Speaker 3: Often are unwarned.
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: They're often an emotional reaction because again, nobody's offering sacrifices
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: right now. Everybody's a dispensationalist to some degree. And I
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: think the key of the key marker as well is
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: that based on looking at these distinctions, this is what
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: helps us to say, no, Israel has a future. The
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: current dispensation of grace is involving the Church, but the
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: dispensation of the law. God said, there's this last remaining
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: week that for the sake of Israel, their national restoration,
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: their national salvation, Roman's less and that's the whole point
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: of Romans really nine through eleven. It's going to happen.
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: But we see that no, the Church is not Israel.
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: Israel about the Church and that obviously causes problems for many,
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: but that's clearly what the text says.
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: And God is nothing if he is not patient, because
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: after the age of Grace comes a great rebellion when
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: we read about that, of course, in revelation, followed by
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: a judgment, followed by his acceptance of man. And all
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: we're doing here is simply attempting in our own human
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: way to describe by stages which we call dispensations, to
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: describe his love and the different methodologies he has taken
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: down through time to bring about the relationship between God
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: and man that will ultimately result in a wonderful kingdom
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: of new heavens and a new Earth.
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and every single one of them either point two
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: or look back to Jesus as being the sinner. The
• 52:01
  Speaker 2: work of Jesus in his earthly ministry, his work on
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: the cross, his death, his sacrifice, his substitutionary sacrifice for
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: humanity is the key lynchpin in.
• 52:14
  Speaker 3: All of these.
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: But what I appreciate about looking at the Bible from
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: a dispensational perspective is, wow, look at this. I mean,
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: there's a consistency in all of them, all the way
• 52:25
  Speaker 2: from again in the Garden of Eden all the way
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: to the end. And again it's consistent all the way throughout.
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: But as you said, it's designed. God is showing himself
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: that again, during this dispensation you eat vegetables. During the
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: next one you can eat animals, just not the blood. Well,
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: during the dispensation of law for the Jews, then he
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: says unclean, no pork, no shrimp. And then you come
• 52:50
  Speaker 2: to the dispensation of grace and he says, well, okay,
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: first before you can eat whatever you want again and
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: so and we know during the millennium there's going to
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: be sacrifices that point back to Jesus. There were sacrifices
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: before Jesus that pointed to him. There'll be sacrifices in
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: the millennium that will point back to him. There's nothing
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: heretical about that. They don't provide freakingness of sin. They
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: never have, so we're not taking anything away, but they're
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: done as a way as visual illustrations to point people
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: back to what Jesus did.
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: Any final thoughts, well, these periods of time have been
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: given names, arbitrary names by scholars. Innocence, you know, conscience,
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: human government, promise, law, grace and kingdom. And we use
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: those words. They're not set in concrete, they are descriptive
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: words to say, in this period, something happened. This period,
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: something happened. But all of those periods taken together result
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: in the new heavens and the New Earth. What can
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: I say? In the beginning, God created the heavens and
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: the earth. Turned to the end of the book and
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: it says and I saw a new heaven and a
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: new Earth.
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: Well, you know, I hope that after this discussion that
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: people who have heard you know again the word dispensation.
• 54:13
  Speaker 3: I hope it's less of a dirty word for people.
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: And also to recognize that again this didn't start with
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: Jonathan Darby. Again, this is what that book right there,
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: dispensations before Darby. People have recognized for a long time,
• 54:27
  Speaker 2: even the early Church fathers that there's a distinction between
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: even the Old coven and the New Covenant at the minimum.
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: And so we recognize again that God has worked in
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: different ways always salvation by grace through faith always, but
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: that has the information. The progressive revelation is a consistent marker.
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: And again everybody believes that we know the Bible wasn't
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: just given Adam. So anyways, appreciate everybody listening today. Hope
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: this was a blessing to you, and I hope to
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: see in Branson. Remember Christmas in Branson December fifth through eighth.
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: Join us, it's already looking to be a great time.
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: Property Watchers dot com check it out and make sure
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: if you haven't, subscribe to the channel and tell us
• 55:06
  Speaker 2: what you think.
• 55:07
  Speaker 3: Gary, it's been good.
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: It has been very encouraging to me.
• 55:10
  Speaker 2: Yes, thanks for listening everybody, and we will catch you
• 55:12
  Speaker 2: next time.