Latest / Easy Double podcast / Nomio Explained ft. Evan Jager — How It Works & When to Use It

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Nomio Explained ft. Evan Jager — How It Works & When to Use It · Easy Double podcast

0:33
Hello and welcome back to the Easy Double Podcast.
0:35
Today we have a very special guest, a man who has recently
0:38
swapped out his spikes for sprouts.
0:41
Welcome to the pod, Evan Jagger. Yeah, thanks for having me guys.
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Excited to talk track a little bit and know me.
0:47
Oh yeah, should be a good one. Yeah, that's right.
0:52
So we're, we're here, I suppose more formally to talk about
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Gnomeo, but we would be be remiss of us if we didn't use
1:01
this opportunity to talk a little bit about, about you,
1:05
the, the, the, the person and, and the runner.
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And, and came to, to just share with listeners a little bit of
1:11
your back story just because it is so special.
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And then hopefully it will segue nicely into how you found Gnomeo
1:18
and, and, and obviously all your, your insights and, and
1:22
expert knowledge on the product itself.
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But perhaps before we talk broccoli, I thought maybe I just
1:28
set the scene a bit for the listeners in terms of some of
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your, your achievements. And please correct me if I've
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missed any of these, but they're pretty, they're they're very
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notable. So I believe in 2015, Evan set
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what is still the current North American record in the
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steeplechase, clocking a time of 8 minutes and 45 hundredths of a
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second. This time's made even more
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impressive by the fact that Evan fell at the final barrier, which
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is about halfway down the finishing straight.
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And I think the lead the he was leading at the time, but the
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winner went on to run 758. So we can only guess as to what
2:04
that time may may be and be interested to get your your
2:08
thoughts quickly on that race, because I know it's it's quite
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the it's quite the special race and you're in quite a purple
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patch. And that continued into 2016
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where Evan was the Olympic silver medallist, beating home
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the likes of two time Olympic champions, Ezekiel Kemboy and
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Albert Carly, and then followed that up the following year with
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a World Championship bronze in in London.
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So fair to say, fairly well credentialed as a runner.
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Yeah, I, we're just so thrilled to have you on the podcast and
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yeah, keen to keen to chat with you.
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Yeah, yeah, I'm excited too. Yeah, it should be a good combo.
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Thank you very much for the nice introduction.
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Yeah, that feels like a long time ago now, but definitely
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still very proud of all those things.
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So yeah, very, very happy with pretty much everything that
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happened in my career. Do you and and I suppose, and
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I'm battling a bit of injury myself and definitely not in the
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same ballpark as you, but there's a couple of barriers for
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me. Just it has a magical numbers
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and it may be such that I never, I never surpassed them on my
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times might be what they are. And I'm sure I'm I know I'm
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completely comfortable with those.
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And and is that, is that where you've made peace in terms of,
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you know, running 8 flat and knowing that, you know, the
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physiological potential is beyond that, but that the time
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it's still itself is quite remarkable.
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Yeah, I, I think obviously like I feel like I could have run
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faster had I not fallen and like my maybe in, in the moment, my
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like end limit was like 750-6757.
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But I think what kind of makes it a little easier to swallow is
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like the fact that I, I like, felt like I did everything at
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that point in my career to run as fast as I possibly could.
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And likewise in the race, I feel like I I push myself to my
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absolute limit and there was nothing that was left in the
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tank to like, kind of leave me questioning how fast I could
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have run. So yeah, I definitely like,
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there's a lot of regret with that race, but also at the same
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time, like I'm very proud of that race.
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And I think like in the moment I got like the absolute most out
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of myself. So I feel very good about how
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like 99.9% of that race went. And you ran eight O 1 I think
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another time and eight O 4 in the Olympic finals.
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So that that 8 minute shape, which is pretty rarefied air,
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like we only see a couple of guys on the circuit sort of
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running those Times Now. So you must have been in pretty
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decent nick for quite some time. Yeah, yeah, definitely.
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I mean, yeah, I, I had a good long stretch of being healthy
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and very fit from basically 2012 to 2018.
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I ran, I think my like season best was eight O 6 to 8 flat.
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So yeah, really good long stretch of healthy high level
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running. So I feel really good about
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that. And we had like at the at the
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time, like we had a running joke on the team that like you're
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only as good as your second best time in an event.
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So it's like the 8 flat to eight O 1 is like a pretty it's a
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pretty good drop off because like everyone can have like a
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one off good race, but like it really like shows who you are as
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an athlete if you can do it over and over and over again.
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So yeah, I feel, I feel good about it.
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You are kind of like a traditional track athlete before
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moving to the steeple when you so do you notice like did your
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training change specifically given like like the the distance
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doesn't really change too much. It's just like the
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technicalities or the change massive.
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Yeah, the I wouldn't say the change is massive.
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Early on, I definitely had to put in a lot of like technical
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work to learn hurtling and water jumping.
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And it was, it was probably, I mean, it was like 2 to three
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days a week of like some sort of technical work my first year,
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whether it was just like standing drills or going over
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like barriers, like practicing like actual hurdle technique.
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And that, that like that stayed consistent for a long period of
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time, mainly where I was like touching on hurdling technique
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once a week generally throughout the year.
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And and then maybe one extra day of like standing wall drills.
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So definitely on the days where you're like in heavy training in
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the winter, where you have like full mileage, like long volume
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workouts, like the last thing that you want to do is like
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another added work out that like your, your teammates like don't
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have to do. So that was that was the only
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like additional thing I feel like I really did very much of.
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And then come spring, I would still do like 90% of my training
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with the guys and then or the the flat guys.
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And then when we would switch to like our specific sessions, I
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would generally do steep workouts and they would go off
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and do either like a 1500 workout or a 5K workout or a 10K
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workout. So yeah, not, not too much was
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very different. Yeah, just definitely early on I
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did like a lot of extra work that my like other teammates
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just didn't have to do. Yeah, because I was watching
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back. Was it like you debut maybe the
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other day and you look like pretty much a natural over them
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even at that point? And I'm starting to think to
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myself, I'm quite like long and slim as well.
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Maybe I should be transitioning to these hurdles.
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Like, can you kind of look at some of the American kids and
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stuff coming up now and think, oh, you'd make a good headline.
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Maybe like they should reposition their focuses earlier
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on. Yeah, you, you think about it,
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you I feel like you always have like an idea of who could be a
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good steepler. But it just like I, I think it's
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one of the events that you will, you'll never know if you're
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going to be good at it until you try it out.
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Because there's, I mean, I've, I've heard of quite a few cases
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of like good like 15 to 5K athletes that like tried out
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hurdling and just like could not get it or even like they were
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able to do full steeples. And it just like there was
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something about it that just did not click for them.
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And they were not the same athlete, same like kind of level
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athlete in the steeple than they that they were in the flat.
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So there's just like a, there's like an extra little factor to
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steeple that like, I don't quite know what it is, but you just
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like either have it or you don't.
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And I think part of it is maybe like wanting to do the event
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because I think a lot of guys just don't want to do it, which
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it makes it like hard to like kind of grip through the, the
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rough part, parts of the training and a race when you
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like don't actually want to be doing that in the 1st place.
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So that could be it or it could just be like a coordination like
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explosiveness thing. I'm not.
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I'm not really sure. And in terms of just talking
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about how hard the event is, is that what led to some years of
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of injury? Is that what was it the event
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specific stuff that that you had to battle with?
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Yeah, probably a little bit of that.
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I mean it didn't help for sure, but I think the the main like
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reason that I got injured was just like stupidity basically
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and stubbornness. It's just like.
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Can relax. Yeah, yeah.
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Just like kind of dealing with injuries like throughout pretty
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much most if not all of the 2018 season and things kind of
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getting worse and worse and worse over the course of the
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year. And like I was able to get
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through it the whole time. And so I was just like, I can
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run, it feels bad, but like I'm just going to make it through
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the end of the season then be OK.
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And then it kind of everything just came crumbling down like
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the last couple weeks of the season.
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So bad timing, really close to the like just the break, but and
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then that kind of was the start of the injury cycle for me.
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So yeah, mainly bad decision making on my part and just being
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yeah, stupid and stubborn basically.
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But you did manage to get back into good shape for was it the
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2024 US Olympic Trials? Yeah, 2022, I made the team in
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for Eugene and then yeah, I was like decently fit for 2024, but
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that was like a pretty up and down year too.
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So yeah, a lot of up and down. But yeah, definitely 2022 I
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think was my fitter of the two years and then it just got
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harder and harder. Like, yes, here's went on.
12:13
Obviously. I was going to ask about when
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you won the silver in 2016. Like kind of from the outside
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looking in, you think, oh, if you as an athlete you medal at
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an Olympic Games, like that must be life changing.
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Do you feel that? Or are you kind of like, so in
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the zone you're just like, well, I'm going to double down next
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time to try and make that gold. And you just train hard and you
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focus on everything kind of internally and you don't notice
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the fact you're a silver medalist at the time.
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Yeah, I would say from like, yeah, everything outside, like
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around me, like nothing really changed.
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I wouldn't say like, I don't feel like my life changed at
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all. I don't feel like relationships
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change at all. I don't really feel like I was
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getting. I mean, I didn't really take any
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other sponsorships outside of Nike, so it's not like I had
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like tons of money pouring in. But I think the one thing that
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it did give me was like a little sense of peace that like I like
13:20
if I had never, if I was just like that super, super close to
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meddling at the Olympics my whole career and never quite got
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there, there would have been like a bit of a hole inside of
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me that like I never was able to satisfy.
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And I think it was just like, yeah, a big sense of
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satisfaction, like meddling. And I think it, I mean, looking
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back, obviously I wasn't thinking about this in the
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moment, but looking back now, like that metal definitely makes
14:00
going through that, that rough patch of injuries at the the
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later stage of my career a lot easier.
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Because like I'm like, yeah, like the last six years weren't
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ideal, but like I got the most out of myself when I was at the
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peak of my career. So yeah, it's a like a little
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bit of yeah, it just if it feels a little bit better than had I
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not ever done that, I guess. Yeah, that's fair.
14:30
In terms of, and we're sort of alluding to this, but it popped
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up across our Instagram reels. Just, it was when you announced
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your retirement from professional running just
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because there was and there was a series of clips of some of
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these special moments that sort of the special moments in time
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across your career. So we got to relive some of the
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memories of, of some of those races.
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But what was just just reflecting on sort of some of
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those comments about getting the most out of your career and, and
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everything. But that's what what How did you
15:08
come to your decision to decide to to step away from
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professional running? Yeah, I guess, like it had been
15:17
in the back of my mind pretty much since like 2019 when I like
15:24
was at the worst of my injury moments.
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And I guess like, at that point for the next few years,
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basically until 2022, I felt like if I did have like the
15:39
chance to just have like a fully healthy year, I felt like I
15:43
still had enough to give to compete, like at a high level,
15:47
like even on the world stage. And I think I proved that to
15:52
myself in 2022. And like, that could have been
15:58
enough to step away then. But then it was also like, OK,
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like with just one year, like this one healthy year, this is
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how high I finished. So I'm going to keep going and
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see if I can like I'm like 2 years away from the Olympics.
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At that point, I'm like, if I just stay healthy, like I'll be
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in a good place, blah, blah, blah.
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And basically I just, I wanted one, I wanted to give myself a
16:24
chance to like try and make the Olympic team because I had
16:29
created this like fairy tale in my mind that had I been able to
16:33
like make the 2024 Olympic team in Paris, it would have been
16:36
like really good redemption for myself for like the fall in
16:40
Paris in 2015. So that was like a huge
16:44
motivational factor. And I was still like, I, I felt
16:49
like the fitness was still there enough to be competitive to make
16:54
the like the Olympic team. And when I didn't, I was like
16:59
one spot out and I was like, OK, like I'm, I think I'm just going
17:04
to keep doing this until like I know that I can't make world
17:08
teams anymore. And then I guess like the wheels
17:12
just really fell off the next year and I wasn't even close.
17:14
So it was pretty, I didn't want to like, I don't know, you like
17:19
it's, it's like hard lifestyle with family.
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You have to be away for months on end.
17:23
And the sacrifice feels worth it when you're like, chasing your
17:29
dreams and achieving your dreams and, like, competitive, I guess.
17:36
And when I just wasn't at the level that I had been in the
17:39
past and where I wanted to be, the sacrifice just didn't really
17:43
seem worth it anymore. So yeah, I feel like the
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decision was pretty easy at that point.
17:51
And did you ever think of like moving up distances, like to the
17:54
marathon or anything? I did.
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I really wanted to do the marathon for most, if not all of
18:02
my career because we like the way that our group trained.
18:08
Our coach was very like strength oriented.
18:11
So I always felt like, for most of my career, I felt like I was
18:16
the strongest athlete on the starting line like every single
18:19
time. And I was always really, I, I
18:24
felt really good and I, I thought I was pretty good at the
18:27
longer stuff that we did. And so, yeah, I just felt like
18:33
it would have been a waste to like do all that strength
18:36
training and all those mileage miles like early in my career
18:39
and, and not try the marathon. And then by the time I was done
18:44
with this depot is like, you have to be like, you know, the
18:49
marathon has just taken off so much that it's just like, I, I
18:53
feel like I missed the wave and it's just like too hard now.
18:56
So it's like, I, I was not going to be like competitive even in,
19:02
in the US had I made the jump to the marathon because I feel
19:06
like, you know, it would have taken me two years to get like
19:10
used to the mileage and like the distance and the race itself.
19:14
And yeah, it was I, I missed the wave I guess.
19:19
You're still pretty. Young.
19:20
Yeah. Cam Levins is 38.
19:22
He's he's out there. No Cam is younger than I.
19:26
Am is he he say 80? Is he 89 as well?
19:29
Is he? Is he 89?
19:33
There's got to be a few guys out there that are.
19:34
Yeah, he's, he's probably around my age, but he's been doing the
19:37
marathon for years now, so sure, sure, sure.
19:41
Yeah. I I think it's just it's too
19:43
late at this point. In in chatting to Phillip.
19:47
He was in New York a few weeks back, wasn't he?
19:49
So he might have you go in there as part of your new role,
19:52
running some recreational marathons around the majors.
19:55
Well, yeah, I'm they're, they're convincing me.
19:58
I had like gone off the deep end and like basically stopped
20:02
running for a little while. Like I, we have a gym like close
20:06
to our house. So I was like, I'm just going to
20:09
bulk up and like get big basically.
20:12
And. Yeah, not maybe not that big,
20:15
but I just wanted to put on some muscle and get like a little
20:18
bigger. And so I was for like a few
20:21
weeks, maybe a month, I was just like, all I did was like run to
20:25
the gym, which is like just over AK away from the house.
20:31
And then I'd lift and then I'd run back and that was my
20:33
running. And then, yeah, the No Mio guys
20:37
reached out to me about this job and by the time I started,
20:42
they're like, so how much? What are you doing for training?
20:45
And I was like, ah, nothing. They're like jokingly, they're
20:48
like, oh man, that's like a fireable offense.
20:51
Like you try to start running again.
20:54
And so we're sponsoring a 10K in April and they want me to like
21:01
pace some of the elite guys. And then there's one of the guys
21:06
is doing a marathon and I think May and they're convincing me to
21:10
like train for that and do that. So like I'm right back in it
21:14
just like obviously not living the professional runner
21:18
lifestyle and doing things at like the optimal level and
21:23
everything. Evan, you are 20 days older than
21:27
Kam Levin's only twenty. 28th of March, the 8th of.
21:32
March, yeah. So I guess, I guess I could do
21:36
it. Yeah, we'll see.
21:40
We'll see how this first one goes, I guess.
21:41
And then maybe, yeah, maybe like training with Gnomeo all the
21:46
time will change things for me. So we'll see.
21:51
Which Speaking of, that's probably a good segue into the
21:54
product itself. So I understand, is that 80%
21:58
broccoli, 15% lemon, lemon juice, 5% sugar.
22:02
So, but it's 100% an organic product.
22:05
Yeah, yeah. Broccoli sprouts.
22:07
Not not just a regular broccoli, but yeah, broccoli sprouts.
22:10
Yeah. And it's, yeah, just those three
22:12
ingredients. Super simple.
22:15
Yeah. Organic.
22:16
It's like crazy how like basic it is in like how well it works.
22:22
It's pretty, I don't know, it's super cool.
22:25
And my, my understanding with like I know say in Australia,
22:30
there's been issues like like our FDA equivalents of getting
22:33
products into the country. I would, my understanding as
22:37
well is from like a, you know, registered list of approved
22:41
products from like a wider USADA, like because this is 100%
22:45
organic, you don't run into the same issues both from a
22:48
distribution into country as well as a sports regulation
22:53
perspective. Is that that's fair?
22:55
Well, yeah, it's, I mean, it's made in like a juicing facility.
22:58
So it's like essentially like, I mean, I, I think in the eyes of
23:03
like what in the US would be the FDA, It's like, it's the same as
23:08
like orange juice, you know, So I don't think it really has to
23:12
pass the same type of regulations as like like a crazy
23:17
supplement would. And in terms of using the
23:20
products, so Owen's probably good, a good example of sort of
23:25
how not to use it, but we, we sort of misread the, the the
23:30
website or misinterpreted it. So Owen had Irish National Cross
23:34
Owen. And did you want to explain to
23:36
us and the listeners how you'll use the product?
23:39
Yeah, so I took it for a race like a month before and I just
23:43
took the one shot and I was like, Oh my God, perfect.
23:47
Felt really good and all that. And then for National Cross I
23:49
was like alright so this is like a big event and I looked on the
23:54
website and I seen like for hard sessions or like races there was
23:59
like 2 green dots so I was like alright I'll double dose.
24:03
So like triage, before the race I necked 2 shots and just before
24:11
the race I didn't feel great. Now I still performed pretty
24:15
decent. I said probably still performed
24:17
as bad as I could, but apparently you're meant to take
24:21
it like the night before or the night after the event.
24:25
So yeah, I sort of learned the hard way, but yeah.
24:31
Yeah. I don't know if this was you
24:33
guys reaching out to us or someone else, but I think we've,
24:36
we've heard, we heard the same like feedback about that
24:40
graphic. So I think we're either working
24:44
on changing it right now or just making it a little easier to
24:48
read for people that don't read the fine print.
24:54
Yeah, they they studied that and yeah, like 2 doses or one doses
25:01
is better than two. SO 2, I don't know if there's, I
25:06
can't remember if there's like it's like worse than not taking
25:10
it or just worse than taking one.
25:11
But yeah, Oh no, it's, it's definitely not worse than not
25:15
taking it. But yeah, the sweet spot is is
25:19
just taking one, especially one at a time.
25:23
So like when when I take the shot like what is happening when
25:28
I take the shot 3 hours before activity like what was actually
25:30
happening in my body? Let me see if so.
25:38
Basically I'm, I want to make sure like I don't say something
25:42
I'm not supposed to say. Basically what happens is in, in
25:46
Gnomeo or in, in broccoli sprouts, there's like ITC, which
25:52
is what is responsible for all these, all these changes that
25:57
happen and all the improvements that you get from Gnomeo and
26:02
ITC. It works at the cellular level,
26:05
I think in the mitochondria and on this specific pathway.
26:12
And I believe it's mainly causes changes to like signal the cell
26:24
to start producing like antioxidant effects.
26:29
And those changes lead to reducing lactate and reducing
26:39
inflammation and reducing oxidative stress.
26:47
And ITC, like it has it, it's been being studied for like a
26:52
lot of other different stuff that are beneficial.
26:54
But when taking OMEO like ITC is what is kind of leading to these
27:02
changes. And so, all right, yeah, sorry,
27:07
go, go ahead. Oh, no.
27:10
And my so that's what's leading to the changes, but I know the
27:13
timing of it is important because I believe in terms of
27:17
like, is it lactate response? Let's say you took it straight
27:19
away, you actually get a like a. Is it like a lactate spike?
27:23
I suppose initially. Yeah, yeah.
27:25
So I think lactate spike and the like oxidative stress because
27:33
it's it's like a pro oxidant actually.
27:35
So it like oxidizes the cell and because the cell is respond like
27:42
it's getting these hits of more oxidative stress, it signals the
27:47
cell to turn on the antioxidant response.
27:52
And then so the curve is like, I guess it goes like this signals
27:58
or it stresses the cell, the cell kicks on and it signals the
28:03
cell to like counteract that. And then that's when you get
28:07
kind of the the effects of the antioxidation or anti oxidative
28:13
stress, the lowering of lactate. Yeah, a lot of a lot of other
28:19
cool stuff, yeah. So essentially then when the
28:23
body actually brings on lactate on itself through the exercise,
28:28
your body is kind of prepared for it already because of these
28:31
changes in the cell. Therefore you can kind of like
28:34
buffer it for longer than you might have previously.
28:38
Yeah, yeah, yeah, pretty much that.
28:41
That's that's how I understand it.
28:42
And yeah, yeah, I mean, you said it exactly.
28:49
And what's and in terms of timeline for that?
28:53
So for example, like someone might be taking it for a very
28:56
short race staple chase or they might be taking it for a
29:00
marathon. Like what is there like a half
29:02
life or is it how long is there? There is a half life, yeah.
29:06
The so the, the peak effectiveness is 3 hours after
29:10
you take it and then there's a six hour half life from when you
29:15
take it for. So for the the next three hours
29:17
you're getting from at 3 hours, you're getting peak
29:21
effectiveness and then for the next three hours you get the the
29:26
half life. And then so we, we do still
29:29
recommend even for like a marathon, still taking it 3
29:33
hours before. I know like there are some
29:35
people that are playing around with timing of that and
29:39
everything. But yeah, we still recommend, I
29:43
think for anything under like maybe 6 hour or like 4 to 4 to 6
29:51
hours, like taking it 3 hours before.
29:53
And then yeah, there's, there's different guidelines for like
29:58
how to take it and, and when to take it based on, I mean, you
30:02
know, ultra marathons and like triathlons and everything.
30:07
So yeah, you can take it at different times based on how
30:12
effective you want it to be. And I and I do think there's
30:14
actually for like 10 plus hour, like activities like you can
30:20
take multiple, I think maybe 1 before and then like another
30:25
half bottle like 10 hours in or something like that.
30:28
So but there's yeah. And there's still like lots of
30:33
studies to be done on, you know, timing and different types of
30:40
exercise and combinations of like ITC and, and other
30:46
products. So we have like a lot in the
30:49
woodwork for what we want to look at and what we want to
30:52
study. Yeah, because I think when we
30:54
were chatting, chatting with Philip about it, he was
30:57
suggesting some of the studies are giving some insight into
31:01
what events may have these like not super responders, but but
31:07
responding because you're different lactate levels at
31:09
different events, but you're seeing different perhaps it
31:11
being even more effective in some events over others.
31:15
Yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean, definitely we're like
31:19
mainly targeting like 15 and up just because like, yeah, I mean
31:26
800 runners are like pushing so much lactate that it might
31:31
actually not. I mean, the, the idea that is
31:35
that it would still be somewhat effective even all the way up to
31:41
like like Max lactate production.
31:46
Like there was one of the studies we've done was like like
31:51
all out 32nd Wingate testing and with ITC they were still like
31:59
very slight amounts of lactate reduction even at the end range.
32:05
But it's like so little that it doesn't it like it doesn't make
32:13
sense to market it to like every running event, you know?
32:17
So what the prime target range, if you like be say in terms of a
32:22
training week, if you were doing easy runs or anything, you
32:25
probably wouldn't touch it, maybe not.
32:28
Even if you're doing like steady or zone 2, it wouldn't be so
32:32
effective. Just like kind of tempo
32:34
threshold mainly. Yeah, pretty much.
32:38
We're even saying like if you're doing double threshold training,
32:42
like most people are trying to stay like pretty close to like 2
32:47
millimoles of, of lactate for the, the lower threshold
32:52
training day. And it's like even for that,
32:54
it's not really, it's not really necessary.
32:58
I, I don't really think it, it does work best between 2:00 and
33:03
8:00 millimoles of lactate production.
33:06
And I think if like, yeah, I just think for a workout where
33:14
you're getting like 2 to 3 millimoles of lactate, it's,
33:18
it's like not that necessary. But in a, in a double threshold
33:24
day, it would be good to take it for the, the second, second
33:30
workout, the higher, the higher lactate threshold workout,
33:34
because usually it would be like the second workout of the day.
33:39
So like a little added stress on the body, a little higher
33:42
lactate production and higher volume.
33:45
There's yeah, you're just stressing the body a little bit
33:48
more. So making it a little bit easier
33:50
the second time around. And then on those days, like you
33:54
can use it for the recovery aspects too before bed because
33:59
yeah, it's you're just going to help recovery for the next day.
34:02
And we're hearing like a lot of anecdotes, anecdotal evidence
34:06
from like our athletes that like on the days that they take it
34:12
for recovery purposes, they they feel better than they would have
34:17
expected the next day. So.
34:21
Yeah. And what's frequent I it's
34:24
really not my area, so apologies if this silly question.
34:28
But on the production of lactate, like I just know if
34:31
you, you're flooding yourself with lactate, it's generally is
34:33
that like an inflammatory thing that's harder to recover from.
34:36
So is this is this going part of the way to to stopping the
34:41
production of something that's that's hard to recover from,
34:44
therefore you're getting the same quality workout with less
34:47
of a recovery cost? I guess that's the way that I
34:56
think about it. I don't know if this is 100%
34:59
accurate, but the way I think about it is like the the more
35:03
lactate that you're producing when you're running, the like
35:08
the more you're stressing the body to do a given amount of
35:12
work. So the lower the lactate, the
35:17
easier it is on your body that you're like, you know, doing
35:22
whatever you need to do. And yeah, I think I would assume
35:30
like, I mean, the higher the lactate, the more intense the,
35:34
the running and just the, the higher the stress on the body.
35:39
You probably, it's probably levels to it like you're getting
35:43
inflammation, you're getting oxidative stress.
35:46
It's there's a lot of different stuff.
35:48
And that's I mean, that's that's running a bit and Physiology,
35:53
there's so many different layers and levels to everything does.
35:59
It's like, I think it's a little bit impossible to know every
36:03
single little detail of why something works the way that it
36:06
does. And that's why I like science is
36:11
people are still trying to figure everything out.
36:13
So there's there's a lot to figure out.
36:15
Because it is like kind of that full natural and organic
36:18
product, Does that mean it has a use by dates essentially?
36:22
So how long should I not be letting it either sit on the
36:26
shelf or sit in the fridge for without taking it?
36:29
Yeah. I mean, it's got a pretty long
36:31
shelf life. I think in the fridge, I think
36:35
it lasts like 8 months Outside it's two months.
36:40
So like, I mean, you probably wouldn't want to order like 1000
36:45
bottles at a time and just let it sit in your room, you know?
36:48
But I think if you're if you're doing normal orders and like
36:52
stocking a couple boxes in the in the fridge, you're as long as
36:56
you're, if you're using it regular regularly, you're you're
37:00
not going to need to worry about it.
37:03
Yeah. OK.
37:04
One of the question I had as well as well more of an
37:07
something I've found interesting.
37:09
Clearly, one of the things you as a brand have got right is
37:12
like the ambassadors that you've got on board, They're like very
37:16
visible, obvious names at the top of middle and distance
37:20
running. I'm thinking Carl Hocker and
37:23
Almgren are like the first two that kind of come to mind.
37:26
And they've obviously like delivered results within the
37:29
past year. So what kind of conversations
37:32
and feedback are you getting from them?
37:34
Are they like kind of obviously finding great benefit from it
37:37
and using it regularly? Yeah, I mean, Almgren has been
37:41
using it for like, I, I mean, I think maybe before the company
37:49
was even officially established. Maybe he's been early, early,
37:56
early, the earliest, like adapter basically.
38:00
And he uses it all the time. Like he he loves it.
38:04
I think he might go through like 6 bottles a week basically.
38:09
I don't know. Yeah, don't quote me on that,
38:12
but he, he uses it quite regularly.
38:15
And I think, you know, he's doing heavy, he's doing like
38:19
big, big volume and like, you know, like, I guess it's not
38:25
like hard for him, but like pretty impressive intense, like
38:29
double threshold workouts. It's kind of crazy.
38:33
And I, there's enough of that online that I don't really need
38:35
to go into, into detail, but yeah, he, he loves it.
38:42
And we want to continue working with him for as, as long as
38:48
possible, maybe like through the end of his career.
38:52
And like, you know, he's been very, very good for us.
38:56
And I think him jumping on the products and being such a
39:04
proponent of it like so early has really helped, like a lot of
39:09
other athletes feel comfortable about using the products and and
39:14
wanting to use the product, obviously, because he had such a
39:17
big year this last year. So that's been super helpful.
39:21
And and then, yeah, we got Cole on the team.
39:25
I mean, this was all before my time, but Cole jumped onto the
39:29
team, I think just before World Championships.
39:32
And yeah, yeah, I mean, he'd been using it and, you know,
39:36
yeah, I think he's, he's still using it right now.
39:39
And we have him, yeah, lined up for next year as well.
39:43
And yeah, all of our athletes, we're, we're trying to help them
39:49
be the best that they can be and just giving them as much an OMEO
39:52
as they need. And conversations right now with
39:56
with new athletes that we're looking into have been like,
39:59
it's super fun. That's kind of what I'm doing
40:02
right now is athlete relations and.
40:05
Talking to athletes mainly in the US and trying to sign
40:10
athletes for next year and the future.
40:14
And it's been relatively pretty easy because everyone's like
40:22
super excited about Gnomeo and they, I think, yeah, they love
40:29
the product. And I think as an athlete, it's,
40:35
I mean, it kind of feels like a no brainer to do a deal with
40:40
like a company that ideally is going to make you a better
40:45
athlete and supply you with like products that is going to make
40:49
you better. And yeah, it seems, I mean,
40:54
yeah, I definitely wish I was growing up in this generation
40:58
because it's like so different. But yeah, I'm like super excited
41:03
for all the athletes that we're signing.
41:05
It's like fun for me, but I'm also like super excited for them
41:09
as well. Yeah.
41:11
So all of that kind of does a lot of the heavy lifting for you
41:15
because they're kind of doing your marketing and promo, I
41:19
guess just by kind of using the product.
41:21
And then you kind of see the the filter down effect because then
41:26
this kind of like athlete to say sublease or even down to
41:30
recreational runners who are even like proud to show off the
41:34
fact that they're taking the product.
41:36
You seem to have attached some sort of relationship to the
41:39
broccoli emoji. Yeah, that's our big, our big
41:45
goal. We want to make it like,
41:47
obviously the broccoli. We want to own the broccoli
41:50
emoji and we want to make it like, synonymous with like, you
41:54
know, workouts and and races and like, you know, the hard stuff.
42:00
Yeah. So that, that's the big goal.
42:02
And yeah, I mean, yeah, we, we want to get it in the hands of
42:08
as as many people as possible. And obviously, and yeah, we, I
42:15
mean, we're working with like a lot of athletes, like all over
42:20
the world. And so it's fun being on like
42:23
this side of things behind, behind closed doors and like
42:29
talking with the athletes on Instagram DM and just seeing how
42:34
many people were we're working with and talking to, it's like
42:37
it's super fun. But I think it speaks to 1000
42:39
words like the caliber of athletes using Namio, like Cole
42:44
Hawker and Anderson and like they're not going to use a
42:47
product that doesn't work. Like I know I really and I
42:52
interviewed Adam Fogg there last week and I think he's another
42:55
he's not an army of athlete. And we're we're speaking out
42:58
before and he loves the product as well.
43:00
And so yeah, like the caliber of at least are using it sort of
43:04
like speaks for itself. Yeah, yeah, for sure.
43:08
Yeah. And yeah, we're like in the
43:11
midst of signing like a roster for next year and it's some
43:16
pretty, pretty good athletes. And we're like, really, really
43:19
excited to have them on board. So we'll be, I think, making
43:23
announcements about who we're signing currently, like, yeah,
43:28
probably maybe over the next month or so.
43:34
But we're like, yeah, we're super excited.
43:36
And yeah, it's going to be a lot of fun.
43:40
To your question or point there, Oh, and This is why it's so
43:43
funny because obviously kind of like when we first spoke to
43:47
Gnomeo, you guys obviously don't want us to speak on a product
43:51
which we have no contextual understanding of.
43:54
Likewise, we aren't going to go out and endorse a product which
43:58
we don't truly believe in. So like you sent us some product
44:02
and Dean and I are trying to create this controlled
44:04
environment on the, the stationary bike in his garage
44:08
and do some lactate testing because unfortunately we were
44:11
both injured at the time, so couldn't run.
44:13
And we were just laughing at like the irony of us trying to
44:16
create our own scientific tests when like you've got the some of
44:20
the best runners in the world who of course they will have
44:22
been through this process themselves to kind of establish
44:26
that it's. Well, I mean, I, I think it's
44:29
ideal that everyone, I mean that that's kind of been our, our
44:34
strategy for signing athletes. We don't want to sign anyone
44:38
that like doesn't believe in the product because like you wanted
44:44
to, you want them to like the products.
44:47
Like we're trying to start long term relationships with these
44:50
athletes and like they're not using it and don't like it.
44:54
Like it just doesn't make sense. And so we try to make sure that
45:00
everyone has tried it in training or racing for like a
45:03
good amount of time and then making sure that they like the
45:07
product before, before signing them just because it just makes,
45:12
I mean, it makes it easier for like our relationship with them.
45:16
It makes it easier for them to be like, you know, excited about
45:21
the product. It makes it feel more real if
45:24
they're talking about it because it's like, you know, Instagram
45:29
posts feel like so fake so, so much of the time and we just
45:34
don't want to do any of that. We're like, we're just like
45:39
paying for promotion basically. So we want everything to be as
45:43
real as we can get it. And, and like, like you guys
45:48
did, I honestly, I did the same thing before I took the job
45:51
because like I wanted to be 100% sure that the product worked.
45:56
And I did my own little treadmill test in the gym, like
46:01
I said by my house. And it was like, you know, I, I
46:04
did everything exactly the same, like same amount of sleep.
46:09
I had the same breakfast, I ran at the same time, use the same
46:13
treadmill, same, same speed, same everything.
46:18
And I was, I was impressed and like I was going to do like an
46:22
official lab test of the product before.
46:26
Like I accepted the position, but I was like, it was obvious
46:31
enough from what I had done that I was, I felt good about jumping
46:36
on the team and and taking this position.
46:39
Just just a couple of other questions just about the product
46:42
and our product experience. So I know for me anecdotally
46:44
like it's very easy on your stomach, which I think compared
46:48
to like the other popular product, which is like a bicarb
46:51
mix maybe is a bit of a differentiator is that is that
46:57
fairly consistent feedback you're getting around like GI
47:00
distress and they're not being. Yeah, yeah.
47:02
The only people that we've heard having stomach issues are people
47:06
that generally have stomach issues regardless of if they're
47:11
taking stuff or not, or people that were also taking bicarb.
47:17
So from the product itself, we haven't heard any negative
47:22
feedback about, you know, stomach issues.
47:27
And I know and my understanding you can take the say bicarb and
47:32
no Mio side by side. I don't understand the science
47:36
behind that. But I know like any like I know
47:38
like when you're talking about fueling and carbohydrates and
47:41
sometimes talk about different types of carbohydrates opening
47:44
up different heart, like I in my mind different highways
47:47
basically up until a particular cap of like fueling limit is
47:51
there. Is it because it's maybe doing
47:53
two different things as to why you can take Gnomeo alongside
47:56
bicarb? Yes.
47:58
So they work, they work through in different ways in the body.
48:02
So by bicarb changes like pH and so it's buffering the lactate
48:13
like after lactate has been produced basically.
48:19
And ITC works before the production of the way that I
48:27
understand it. And it works at a cellular level
48:33
before it's getting into the bloodstream, I believe.
48:37
So they, Long story short, they, they work in, in different
48:42
manners. And yeah, we're thinking that
48:46
they should work together pretty well because they're they won't
48:52
like have any negative side effects on each other.
48:57
And I think that that is one of the tests that's in the pipeline
49:01
for what we want to check out is how, how the two work together.
49:07
But yeah, we think that they should have like a synergistic
49:10
effect when used together, which is like super cool for people
49:15
that can and do use bicarb already.
49:18
And you would think that with what is it, it's equivalent to
49:21
like 2 1/2 three kilos of broccoli sprout in the one shot,
49:25
isn't it? You'd think that might cause a
49:27
bit of AI. Don't know, horrible taste, but
49:31
it's my personal opinion. It's actually like, not bad.
49:34
Yeah, I like the taste. Honestly, I like, I've been
49:38
drinking it enough and I, yeah, I think it tastes good.
49:42
I maybe I don't have like the best palate in the world, but I
49:45
think it tastes good. Apparently it was pretty nasty,
49:48
like in the early stages of when they were like trying to get
49:51
things dialed in and before it went into like production and
49:54
everything. So I think yeah, they, they've
49:58
dialed it in to make it like palatable and like I, I think it
50:03
tastes good. But there's definitely, yeah, I
50:07
think some people like bike don't have a problem with it,
50:11
but I think it doesn't taste great.
50:15
And I think they actually, they didn't want to make it taste too
50:21
good because I think they they thought that people wouldn't
50:25
trust that it actually did anything if it like tasted two
50:28
kids. So I think they found a really
50:31
good balance. My I understood that the is it
50:34
the lemon juice or the lemon add?
50:36
Like add in is purely for It's like you're not getting the
50:40
lactate buffle with the lemon juice, right?
50:41
That's just is that that's for flavor.
50:43
Is that right? Yeah, yeah.
50:45
I think the lemon, the lemon juice and the sugar is purely
50:47
for flavor. Yeah, I think all all of the
50:53
effects are coming from the ITC in broccoli sprouts.
50:57
Yeah. I sorta like, do I like the way
51:01
like 3 hours out, you have to take it because I feel like it
51:04
sort of gets you in like the mindset of, OK, I'm racing soon.
51:09
So like I've sort of in the routine now where I take 3 hours
51:12
out, I take my #2 hours out, I take the bicarb and then, I
51:16
don't know, sort of sets the tone for like racing.
51:19
Yeah, yeah, for sure. And that's actually, I think
51:21
there's like some psychology to like having like a really good
51:25
routine, like having having a routine that you do like either
51:30
every workout or every race. It puts you in a better
51:34
headspace. And you, I think you there are
51:37
like better, you have like better performance numbers and
51:41
results when you do have like a specific routine.
51:45
So yeah, I mean, ideally we can get like we can get everyone to
51:51
like, you know, be making you know me a part of their their
51:55
pre race routine, pre workout routine.
51:58
I know like for myself workout days especially like probably I
52:05
mean, I I did the same thing from like the start of my warm
52:10
up to my workout time almost my entire career.
52:15
It was like the exact same and race day is is the same like
52:20
almost five hours out. So five hours out, if I could
52:25
just make no meal part of my routine.
52:28
It's just like I think the more things that not the more things
52:32
that you do, but like the more dialed in you are, the better.
52:35
The only problem or negative side of the three hour thing is
52:39
like for those who train say really and early in the morning
52:42
or pre work like 6-7 AM sessions is there.
52:46
If you can't speak on it, that's fine, but are there any plans
52:49
through the science to try and cut that window or?
52:52
I don't know if it's possible honestly to cut the window.
52:55
I think it probably just has the.
52:59
I think the the effects are what they are on the body.
53:04
I don't know if you can change that.
53:06
It is definitely tough and I think it's probably like I don't
53:14
think we're not recommending that people work like wake up at
53:18
4:00 AM if they have a 7:00 AM workout just to take Nomi.
53:22
I don't think it makes sense. So maybe maybe take it like the
53:27
night before just to get like some better rest or something.
53:30
Or if if you are doing 2 workouts that day, just just
53:34
wait till the 2nd workout. I don't think it's a big deal.
53:38
I take it and then just go back to bed for an hour like.
53:40
That that's honestly what what I would probably do is probably
53:43
just have it at my bedside table and like anytime I woke up to
53:48
like go to the bathroom in the middle of the night, just like
53:50
take it, especially if it's like within the six hour window
53:53
because you're still going to have the half life.
53:57
So that's probably what I would do if I was like super concerned
54:01
about it. But yeah, I like definitely you
54:06
don't want to be like stressing about it like every night before
54:11
a workout or like on marathon day, like you don't want to be
54:16
like have that also in the back of your mind.
54:18
So I think if you're doing a marathon super early like and
54:25
you don't want to wake up 3 hours before, maybe just do it
54:28
like 2 hours before because you would still, I mean you'd still
54:31
get the effects like an hour and to the marathon, which would not
54:36
be like that. It's not a bad thing.
54:39
In terms of then accessing getting it, I know in Australia
54:46
there's a distributor called aid station that we can purchase it
54:51
from. Is it either through like say
54:54
for Owen in Ireland and, and folks through through Europe and
54:58
and listeners around the place? What's the best way to get
55:00
access to the product? Yeah, through Europe is just
55:03
through the Gnomeo website, drinkgnomeo.com.
55:06
And then yeah, in Australia we're working through aid
55:11
station and in the US we're working through the feed.
55:16
So as of right now, those are our three big distributors.
55:20
And I think I know that our deal with the feed is, is for quite a
55:26
few years. And then, yeah, as as we expand
55:32
to other places throughout the world, we'll have to do, you
55:35
know, different distributors for different parts of the world,
55:39
but we're working on that. So Evan, last one for me,
55:42
probably you couple years back if you took Nomio, are we
55:47
talking a sub 750? And the shoes and I don't know,
55:57
and like and like actually using carves and everything.
56:01
I don't know. It's a it's definitely a
56:04
different game. Yeah, I don't know.
56:08
I'm not going to put a number on it for sure, but it would have,
56:11
it would have been fun to. Yeah, like kind of think start
56:17
my professional running career at at this point in time cuz
56:21
like, yeah, the sports just so different it which it's awesome.
56:27
It's like so cool to see all these advancements cuz like, you
56:32
know, the sport was so like old school when I started off.
56:37
It was just like train as hard as you can, as much as you can.
56:42
And like at least in the US or like my training group, it was
56:47
like, like, I don't know, doing anything other than just working
56:53
really hard. Like you were like soft
56:55
basically. So it's like, I don't know.
56:59
Yeah, totally different mindset. And it's obviously it's way
57:03
better that the culture has has shifted to like, you know,
57:07
taking care of the body and like, and the mind and like
57:11
feeling correctly. And yeah, it's, it's just in
57:16
general so much better. Yeah.
57:19
It would have been fun though. Yeah, never mind the the Omgren
57:24
effect, If you start saying you would have upgraded your silver
57:27
to gold, then that's all's the the marketing that you need.
57:31
Well, I don't know if the metal would have ever changed because
57:34
you would think that like consensus Caprudo would have
57:38
been doing the same thing. So I like that.
57:41
That's the great part is like times, times are always going to
57:44
change. But like competition is always
57:45
just competition. And I think like I was pretty
57:50
obsessed with like running fast times in my career for most of
57:54
my career. And yeah, as because I, I just
58:00
thought that like we were at the like end limits of what was
58:04
possible, like in the middle of my career.
58:06
And then the technology and everything changed.
58:09
And, and then you see you're like, Oh yeah, like you can be
58:15
so much better. And everyone raises their game.
58:18
So it's always, you can always look back on like just just the
58:23
results list and who who finished higher.
58:26
And I think generally that would have that's always going to be
58:31
just about the same. Yeah, true.
58:33
Good perspective to look at it from.
58:36
Well, we said, Evan, that we would not take any more than an
58:39
hour of your time and we are pretty much striking up at an
58:42
hour. So thank you so very much for
58:45
jumping on and chatting with us and sharing both personal as
58:48
well as professional insights. I know I've got so much out of
58:51
it, so hopefully our listeners have to.
58:53
Cool. Yeah, thanks for having me guys.
58:55
This is fun. Good to meet all you guys.
58:57
It's been a pleasure. Yeah.
59:46
None.