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Paul Thompson · Calm Under Fire

• Col. John Boggs: But welcome to Comma Under Fire, where we talk about leadership when it actually counts. I'm Colonel John Boggs, and today we have Paul Thompson. Paul is a former US Army Warrant Officer. US Army Warrant Officer, I love it folks. Brown star recipient and operational leader who specializes in bringing clarity to complex systems. So today, Paul works as a fractional COO. ⁓ embedding with manufacturers and business owners to streamline operations, reduce costs, and build leadership teams that can sustain results. From managing over a half billion dollars in assets during deployments to leading operational turnarounds in global organizations, Paul's work today sits at the intersection of discipline, execution, and people. This conversation is about leadership under pressure, folks, operational clarity, and what it really takes to bring order to chaos. All right, Paul, thank you very much for joining me today. Paul Thompson: Absolutely, John, it's pleasure to be here. Col. John Boggs: Thank you. Well, sir, would you mind if we just jump right in? Great. Paul, what was the moment, either in the Army or in business, when you realized that calm was a leadership skill, not just a personality trait? Paul Thompson: Absolutely, let's do it. I would have to go and say it had to, when I realized that more than anything was a combat deter in Iraq, as we were consistently engaged by insurgents with indirect fire, us as officers primarily had to maintain our calm so that we, our subordinates, could see the fortitude of our leadership. We had to show that we were there to do a mission, regardless of the conditions that we were putting ourselves into, and that we, and we had to be that position so that way they saw us as that leader. If a leader in that condition were to crumble or show fear in this sign of adversity, it destroys the credibility of that leadership. And for me, I could not do that. You know, I have a of maintainers as a warrant officer and, know, mortar pools, we call them. We were on the outside skirts of the FOBs, the four operating bases, and we were consistently getting attacked. And so we had to maintain that strength and show our teams that look. We're here to do a mission team. You've got good leadership here. We'll get through this together. Col. John Boggs: Wow, that's awesome. That is truly awesome. Thank you, sir. You led logistics and readiness under real pressure in the Army. What translated cleanly? What translated into business? And how did you do that? Paul Thompson: Thank you. So in the logistics realm, the chaos is real. You're still working with planes, trains, automobiles, and boats. And across all methods and modes of transportation, there is challenges. In the military, it may be a little bit more streamlined, because that's actually how we get around the globe. But in the civilian world, it all has to do with the dollar. So when you start affecting prices and costs about moving or transporting goods and services, it creates a level of stress. So although different than maybe a combat environment, In the civilian world, once you start adding stress to an environment, it causes disruption in execution. And so us as leaders, have to be able to clarify the noise, get through the noise and understand that we have something we sought to execute. The goods have still got to get there. I understand there's a snowstorm. I understand that there's problems at the port. What are we doing to ensure that we're communicating how we're going to get those deliveries to occur? What are we doing to ensure that our customer understands that we're in situations that are outside of our control? Oftentimes just breaking down the communication and saying ⁓ to not only your people but your customers the situation is what it is. They understand. I everybody's people and people understand that we all have situations we go through and the realms of logistics. It's a daily endeavor to overcome challenges with transportation. just it's part of the normal activity. How do we get around it? How do we ensure communications there? If we communicate clearly on the situation? Most often, customers and even the people who you're working with will understand and they'll work together to try to solve it or be at least lenient enough to get it to the point of delivery. Col. John Boggs: You know, that's really wonderful that you said that. It's interesting that you said that, because one of the things I found in working with a lot of the people that I work with is they want more information. They want everything to be, I need more data. I need to know more. And quite frankly, ⁓ you got what you got. And yet, I've seen leaders who just didn't want to move, they'd rather go to the head or to the latrine and throw up than make a decision. So how do you manage when the imperfect information, how do you get through that? Paul Thompson: Yeah, in the military that happens all the time. We were always given a portion of an order to get something done. We never had fully clear of where we needed to go or an objective to take or what we needed to actually get done. So we always try to put the pieces of the puzzle together. We know we have this overarching mission or overarching objective we have to do. We understand what our piece of that pie is and how it's important. From there, it's just a matter of understanding our teams, what their capabilities are and what they have to deliver. And then us as leaders, we have to put Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Paul Thompson: the understanding of what the overall mission is, understanding what our team is, and then putting very clear guidelines and objectives and executables to our team so they can execute. They don't always understand that we have an absence of information. What they do know very well is what their job is, what they have to do to execute that job, and what success looks like in their world. So as leaders, we have to be able to fill those gaps and be able to give them very clear instructions so they can execute, even in the absence of clear information. That's a true sign of a leader. We can fill in those gaps and still get our teams to execute. We task organize, we prioritize, we assign and we execute. That's the way we get stuff done. Col. John Boggs: Do you find it's the same way in business? Paul Thompson: In the business world, it's a different aspect because of this. And we don't have to, let me take this back. We have to be more concerned on an empathetic level in the civilian world. In the military, it's, you, you go, you execute and I could give a crap about your feelings. In the civilian world, you have to understand that, that people have things going on beyond just business. They have personal lives. They have personal problems. They have situations that they're going through and that affects their output. As leaders, the best leaders are the ones that take time to understand and know their team and know them to a point of how many children they have or if they have any, what their relationship statuses are like, how they have their cat, their dog, their house, what they do for vacation. The more you know your subordinates and understand where their life is coming from, you can clear the noise for them and show them that what they do is important to the organization. You can get them to understand that you're a human too and we're both here to do a job just from a different level. And if I can give you the ability to get your job done while still taking care of your family and doing the things you need to do, it's going to make me come across as a better leader because I understand where you're coming from. At the same time, you know, we take the rank off essentially. It's like, I'm going to take my rank off. We're going to sit down together. What do you do for fun? What do you do and enjoy yourself? And in turn, it breaks down the lines of communication. The subordinates start to understand that, you know, we're just people. We're in different positions in the company. But at end of day, we have to get stuff done. What's even more important is getting them to understand that what they're do in their role matters. Often you see that people in their individual contributor roles, they just want to do their job and go home. What they don't understand is how that's making an impact to the organization. So as a leader, I've always made it a point to tell my people that look, what you're doing matters to the company in the realms of X production, Y value, Z bottom line. They're creating something for the company that's giving that company money in some way, or form, which in turn gets them a paycheck. And the better they perform in doing their activity, that little piece of the pie gets that much better. It tastes better. It works better. It feels better. So in doing so, they start to gain some understanding and ownership in that because they feel that pride in doing stuff done. Once you can get your team to really feel prideful in what they're doing, their level of execution goes way up. And then you as a leader, your job gets easier. You get to a point where you don't even have to assign them anymore because they know their job, they know their activities, they know what they have to get done. You then just have to follow up to ensure things are done to a certain standard. It makes life easy. It's all about getting to know your people. And the best leaders definitely do that. Col. John Boggs: Have you, well, let me rephrase that. Have you ever seen leaders or noticed how leaders in an effort to be empathetic accidentally go the exact opposite way? They create noise, they create chaos. Hey, you think you just helped me, ⁓ my God, you left me with my head spinning. Have you ever seen that happen? Paul Thompson: I have when it comes to a leader that is overly emotionally charged, meaning that if there's challenges or problems in an organization and the leader comes in because they're under pressure and they don't know how to control their own emotions, that is transferred to the individuals below them. They feel that, they see that. They see that this person isn't as good at control what they should be as a leader. We have to be very good as leaders to be able to control the chaos, control the noise. and come across as professional and understanding in a way that our team feels confident that what we're telling them is needed for a reason. If we come in emotionally charged, our teams, they don't want to execute because they think you're operating on emotion versus operating on fact or operating on unnecessary or operating on process. To take a moment as a leader to settle ourselves, take a deep breath, realize that you're in a position where, yes, you're under stress, but your team doesn't need to see you that way. Elevates you. Your team sees you as confident. They see you as inspiring. They see you as a leader that is willing to deal with the stress and help you to do your individual job. It's a wonderful way to be a leader. Now, it hard? Is it hard? Absolutely. It's tough to take the pressure of life and squash it to a point where your subordinates can't see it. There's an old saying, never let them see you sweat. That absolutely holds true. As a leader, Yes, we're under tremendous pressure to execute, receive, get that bottom line where it needs to be. But our team doesn't need to see that. They need to see the positivity. They need to see the leader that's happy to be there, the leader that's enjoying to be around. Because with that, they're going to gain respect for you and in turn, they're going to execute whatever it is you need them to Col. John Boggs: Well, very good. Excellent. Where do leaders most often miss the connections? How do they do that? Where do you have you seen that? Paul Thompson: think it comes from a couple of different things. Leadership misses connections when they're, one, self-absorbed, or two, they are not empathetic. So those two things are kind of separate. When someone is self-absorbed, they're more in it, it's the statement of what's in it for me. This is all about me, my world, me, me, me. And a good leader understands that it's not about me. You didn't get in your leadership position because you did it on your own. Col. John Boggs: Ooh. Paul Thompson: Everyone gets there because someone helped them get there or there was other people that were there along the way. The path to success is never a straight line and you never do it alone. So to go in as a only a me kind of leader, you're going to lose the respect to your team. They're not going to want to work for you as part. Then when it comes to the empathetic side, to understand your team is ultimately important. What is it that drives them? What is it that motivates them? Often you'll see people will say that we want to give you a bonus for as a motivation. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Paul Thompson: what probably would be even better is to give them a day off. They would probably enjoy that a lot more. So you have to know your team and what motivates them to really get them to want to excel and want to do their job. Some people would look at it as, just want a little less off my plate. I'm very busy. It stresses me out. Take something off my plate. I'll be very happy. So it's just taking the time to be empathetic to your team's needs. What do they want? What drives them? What inspires them? What motivates them? Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Paul Thompson: And then how do you as a leader leverage those to get the best out Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Okay. Empathetic. You've hit empathetic a few times here. So it seems like there's a theme here that leaders need to be empathetic. Paul Thompson: Absolutely. So I say this a lot because when we come out of the military, we lack empathy. We lack emotional intelligence. We're so used to just executing orders without regards to personal feelings. It's do the job regardless of how you feel about it. I don't care. And when we transition out, it's a struggle for many of us. We struggle with the fact that the civilian world doesn't like to execute. They don't like the work. It seems that way. Now, sure, there are certain people that do. Col. John Boggs: Mm. Paul Thompson: but it comes down to more of understanding their personal situation to get to the point where they want to start executing. And it's taking that time as a leader. We really do need to understand where our people are coming from. What it in turn does is you need to internalize yourself. What is it about you that drives you? What is it about you that motivates you? What is it internally inside that drives you as a person to really want to execute, be a good leader? If you're taking time to be empathetic and understanding to your people, you do the same thing with yourself. And the self-assessment is often harder than taking the time to get to know your people. No one likes to criticize themselves. No one likes to take time to understand what's inside my head. What is it that's driving me? Why am I this way? What can I do to be better? How can I be more approachable? These kinds of things, it's great for a leader to internalize how they are as a person. So empathize not only with your people, but empathize with yourself too. You're a human as well. Col. John Boggs: Now, you know that that's you hit on something here and I'm going to throw this word out because when you talk about our experiences in the military and you're 100 % correct. Where does discipline come in? Because we all we also come out we're very disciplined. We're very disciplined. Paul Thompson: We are. Yeah, in the military, that's the one that's that's one area that we excel at is the realm of discipline. We will get stuff done like no other. It's always great for me to see that I have ⁓ operators that are from former military because they understand what execution means. They understand about get stuff done ⁓ in the in the civilian realm. It's their ability to understand execution comes typically from a schedule. They adhere to a schedule and they understand what a schedule is and find a way to get them to meet that schedule is really what the leader wants to do. Military is used to operating in lack of clear guidance. We do it all the time. In the civilian sector, the guidance is what the civilian world needs. They need to understand a little bit bigger picture, how they fit into this pie, how is it that their job is important so that they can execute. And then there's a little bit of accountability that needs to come into play. In the military, we're taught very well on it comes to accountability. Your actions are directly the result of what you do and you're held to those standards. In the civilian world, accountability is lacking a lot of times. And so with that, it also has a direct impact on the level of execution. If you're not held accountable for what you're supposed to be doing, the chances are you're probably not gonna do it. Also, if you don't own up to what you're supposed to do, often just getting your subordinate to say, I'm going to do X, Y, Z, they're usually gonna execute because they said they would do it. Col. John Boggs: Hmm Paul Thompson: So if we can find ways to motivate them to show our leadership capabilities, give them clear guidance, give them a schedule to adhere to, and make sure they understand what their role is, they can usually get the job done. But really what leaders need to do is follow up to ensure it gets done. Col. John Boggs: You said, they get the job done. One of the things that I've noted is, as a matter of fact, I call people out on it. They said, well, here are our expectations. And again, in the military, that seems to work just fine. But what I found on this side of the fence is expectations are losers because either you did it or you didn't, period. Either you made it or you failed. And it seems like agreement is more the word on this side of the fence. That is, I agree that I can do that in that amount of time or I don't agree that I can do that in that amount of time. What are your thoughts on that, on the differences between agreement and expectation? Paul Thompson: So expectation to me is almost a sense of false reality. Because what I can expect of you versus what you can actually do can very much be two different things. So as a leader, we have to be able to understand the realistic expectation. What is it this person can actually truly do? What are they really capable of? Is my expectation realistic? Think of it like a SMART goal. Is it specific, measurable, achievable, time-based, basic operations? The same has to be done with an expectation. Is it specific? Is it measurable? Is it achievable? Is it something we can time base? It's the same thing with that. So if we set our expectations to a level that's similar to a goal, then it can be achieved. The challenge is getting people to understand that what I expect of you is also what the job is to entail. I'm not going to expect anybody in my team or my subordinates to do something that is outside of the realm of what their capabilities are. And sure, it may be possible that once in a while we want to push them. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Paul Thompson: But at same time, we want to make sure they're fully capable. When it comes to setting expectations, if you change it to a goal, you have something to achieve. And as you set goals, set them in a way where it's a small achievement. And I say that because when you can achieve something small, it starts to snowball. And then you achieve the next something small. And you continue to do this, and your achievements start to become greater and greater. As you continue to build these And it will cause you to grow your expectations also, because you know that diversity becomes more capable. So expectations and capability have to go hand in hand. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. coached leaders. ⁓ You've coached leaders to make decisions without having perfect information. So do you help people build confidence in that space? How do you get people more confident? ⁓ I know we're going back a little bit here, but to them confident in ⁓ not having all the information. Paul Thompson: It's okay. So to me, confidence comes from knowing your capabilities. This is where the internalization comes back to the past. The most confident people are the ones that are experts in their fields. For example, if you're going to go and speak in front of a group, you're typically not going to go up there if you don't know the topics. You're to go up there with knowing every single thing there's going to be, what the questions are going to be. You're prepared. So the more prepared you are, the more confident you're going to come across. So in the lack of clear guidance, Your confidence is what's going to take over because you have the experience, the knowledge, the understanding to fill the gaps. So yeah, that's the way I look at confidence. It's all about knowing your stuff. Col. John Boggs: Knowing your stuff very good leaders should know their stuff. So where is it? Where is the leader that fails the leader that? Is there a common thing that you see where leaders? ⁓ Where it undermines their execution it they undermine themselves. Is there something that you've seen that does that? Paul Thompson: Yeah, to me, an example that comes to mind is the narcissistic leader. The leader that is only in it for themselves. They don't take the time to see the bigger picture. When mistakes are happened, they blame everyone else but themselves. It creates a toxic environment. The narcissist is really, really hard to deal with because you're feeding an ego and a personality rather than a professional person. Col. John Boggs: Mmm. Paul Thompson: It creates problems across the organization. It creates almost a toxic environment in a sense, because they're so consumed with their own well-being, their own self-worth, their own personal gain that they will walk over whoever they need to to be able to get what they want. This, to me, is the most toxic kind of leader. And unfortunately, they exist out there. There are some people in the world, that's all they are, is just for themselves. However, I would also say that the people that work underneath them are probably not the most successful. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Paul Thompson: And I say that because they probably don't have clear expectations. They probably don't have set clear goals. They probably don't have really good processes and workflows put in place because that narcissist is going to blame them for those things missing. So as we're a leader, we have peers that would be in these leadership environments. And if we see this narcissist, we have to take the time to coach and mentor and tell them, look, the way you treat your people can be improved. Let me help you. Let me show you. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Paul Thompson: Now that's challenging because a narcissist is going to think they're perfect in every situation in the world. So what you have to do is approach them in a way where you have you thought about, what you consider, what are your thoughts on? And you get them to start to think about what they do and how they do what they do. And it starts to get them to open up a little bit. And they start to realize that you're not there to shoot, to break them down. If you try to do anything with a narcissist, break them down, they're just going to fight you. If you're doing it in a way where you're asking questions to get them to think about the way they're approaching things. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Paul Thompson: they typically will start to understand a little bit more. And eventually what you want to do is get that narcissist to start asking you questions. Once that happens, you've built a level of trust with them. Then you can start taking and coaching them on ways to start really improving and get them to understand their approach isn't really appropriate. So it's, you got to build trust with the narcissist, which is tough. It's really a tough thing to do. Once you get it though, they start asking you questions, then you can really coach and mentor them and get them out of that behavior. Col. John Boggs: Wow, that is, you've, that's a lot right there. To get a narcissist to come around is tough. So what I'm hearing is you're saying, you're asking them questions. What I call it, beautiful questions. You said, what, you know, what would you consider and what have you, those are great questions. I love those questions. ⁓ Wow. The narcissistic leader, that's the one that I'll jump off of that one very quickly here, but because that one, we all have them. mean, they literally keep me in business, but we all have them. Yeah. So what has what has your work today? What has it taught you? What has it done with you as far as. Continually to grow your leadership to what has it done for you? What? Paul Thompson: We've all had them. I know we have. Absolutely. Col. John Boggs: Has it made you more intentional? What has it done for you? Paul Thompson: Yes, for me, it's all about adding tools to my toolbox. And when I say that, I mean, there's always something to learn. We're not in on we're on this world a very short period of time. And the confidence comes when we know stuff. And so the more stuff we can pack in our little head, the better we're going to be. So I'm consistently reading books. I just finished a book ⁓ the other day. ⁓ Was it the four D's of execution? It's an older book, just a great book, an older book to kind of give you some ideas. Another one, traction, which talks about the entrepreneurial operating system, a new way of doing business for small operators. These just give you tools in toolbox, give you to see a different perspective on how things can be done in business to be better, faster, easier, cheaper, safer, higher quality. As leaders, especially me in the operations realm, nowadays, I have to understand all aspects of business because operations touches everything. So by adding tools in my toolbox, I can speak confidently to the finance people. I can speak to the logistics, logistics systems. I can speak to the the production people on the floor because I understand what they're going through, which is how I become successful because I'm willing to take the time to understand before I start offering advice, before I start making suggestions for changes, before we start implementing what's going on. We have to understand the current situation as it is now and look for those gaps. Look for the areas where things could be improved. Look for ways to drive seconds out of their manufacturing process, drive seconds out of their service delivery process so they can save money. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Paul Thompson: It takes adding tools to the toolbox, understanding what you're talking about, and then taking time to speak to the people. mean, really get them to understand that you're there to help, not there to just change things. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Well, know, Paul, I would stop and say that some people would look at you and say, well, that's so easy for Paul. He knocks it right out. Let's just get Paul on it. Could you could you talk just a little bit about those things or something that people say, ⁓ well, so easy for Paul. Well, Paul actually knows, you know what? It took me a long time to get to this. But yet people look at you and they say, ⁓ he's it's so easy for him. Paul Thompson: Hahaha. Absolutely. Yeah, again, it comes back to internalizing. When you're considering a role for whatever that role may be, you have to look at what tools do you have to fulfill that role and what tools do you not have? And being willing to take the time to invest the energy to add the tools to your toolbox, take the time to learn what it is that is needed to fulfill that role. Every single role that we're going to take has different needs, different requirements. However, as a leader, the general aspect of leadership is always the same. We're leading people, we're developing people, we're getting, you know, driving for the bottom line. The individual contributor or individual needs in that role though differ in the realms of there may be a specific technology you don't know. In the realms of AI, we're all living the AI world now. Fortunately, everyone's starting to embrace it, which I think is wonderful. It's adding those tools to your toolbox, being time to take and willingness to listen to yourself, talk to you, know, with internally, internalize what do I need to be able to be the best at this role I possibly be and am I willing to learn? You know, as we, we, as I came out of the military, I realized that, as I said earlier, empathy was something I did not have. And, and with that, I saw that my teams were struggling, uh, because my approach was just too abrupt. I was too forceful. I was too much, just do what I say. And with that, we were struggling. So, and it happened to be a mentor that gave me the feedback, just as I said earlier about the narcissist took the time to say, look, the way you're talking to your people, you might want to change things a little bit. You're a little too forceful. you're too militaristic for them. And with that, I kind of had to internalize that, you know, feedback is great and we have to be willing to accept both good and bad feedback. And I took that and I started to research and study and say, yeah, this is where I figured it out that the transition from military to civilian, there's things we lack. And in our case, was, or my case anyway, it was this whole emotional intelligence piece. I did not have any of it at all. So I started researching, finding books, going to classes, sitting in seminars to understand what this stuff is all about. And with it, I've found that, as I've said it many times in here, that empathy piece is paramount to being a good leader. And that's something that I would say is really take time to know your stuff. Col. John Boggs: Wow, okay, take the time to know your stuff. That's very good advice. Well, you know, Paul, because ⁓ the audience, the audience to this podcast, from people who are in leadership positions, ⁓ and you have lived ⁓ a very interesting life, you've got a very interesting background from military to business, that's... Paul Thompson: Thank Col. John Boggs: and you've translated it and it's going well for you. What advice would you give them? Listening to, you you've got a lot of young listeners, a lot of older listeners. The only thing we all have in common is we're all in leadership positions. What advice would you give them based on all the years of your experience? Whether it's something you wish you knew then, you knew now that you know. then or whatever, way I say that, but I'm sure I just screwed that up. But you get my point. What advice would you give them? Paul Thompson: you The advice I would say is that two things, I said it earlier, the path to success is never a straight line, which means what you think you are today is probably not where you're going to be 10 years from now or further down the road. You can't say where you're going to be. And that line is going to be filled with bumps along the way. You're going to have ups, you're going to have downs, you're going to have good days, you're going to have bad days. And it's never a straight line, ever, ever, ever. So you have to understand that. The second is, is that you can never do it alone. The path to success is, it's a lonely world. However, you cannot do it alone. There's always going to be people that you're going to either have as subordinates, peers or bosses. And in all cases, you have to be able to have the ability to speak to their level and take the time to understand their position and how they can help you in yours. One of the things that we do in the military, we gain this, this, this belief of a life of servitude. And I'm kind of a, you know, a little bit of a man of faith. That life of servitude goes, goes back into our faith world as well. And that the more we're on earth to help others, the better society is. And that goes true for any society around the world. Everyone that's willing to work to help others, their societies are usually the better. and I feel like in the business world, we don't do a lot of that. We need to take time to help our people, help each other. help our bosses for that matter, for whatever it is they need. In the realms of feedback, you your boss should have an open door policy and have the willingness to listen to a subordinate come in and give them some feedback. Have the ability to say, look, we're both people. Yes, I may be in a higher position than you, but at end of the day, we're both people. We have to help each other. And if business owners and business leaders can realize that their people are what's driving their company and getting this stuff done. the better they treat them and the more understanding they are of their situations, the more likely they are to continue to do successful things for the company. And ultimately that's where you grow and that's where you gain respect from your teams is what you can do to make their life easier, better, safer, safer. Col. John Boggs: Great, thank you. Paul, for leaders who are listening, who recognize the kind of complexity that we've been talking about, and they want to gain more clarity or consistency into their operations, what's the best way for them to reach you? How could they reach you? Paul Thompson: Absolutely. The fastest and easiest way to find me is on LinkedIn. I'm found at Paul Thompson MBA. I'm also a member of the proper group, which is the proper.group. You can find me in there as well. I'm happy to connect and work with others in the realms of operational excellence. I really enjoy getting in the weeds and helping others to drive costs out of process. I really enjoy the manufacturing environment and working with manufacturers to improve what they do. and then also working with junior level leadership. So as I'm in an organization and working on an operational issue, I also coach and mentor and develop their leadership teams. As we're changing things in process, the leadership team, the junior leadership team is the one that's driving those changes. So if I'm going to have the time to go in and help to improve a business position, I also want to take the time to improve the leadership position as well. Because once we make changes, It's those junior leaders that are the ones driving those changes to success. Sure, as leaders, we're recording on it, we're reporting on it, we're making sure it's getting done, but ultimately it's those junior managers, those junior leaders that are driving to make sure that those operators are getting the job done. So if we take time to develop them and get them to understand the stuff we do at the senior leadership level to understand their team, understand how to motivate, understand how to distribute information, it makes a whole organization grow. So I'm not a one-stop shop. I'm here to help on operations. but I'm also going to help develop the teams. Col. John Boggs: Paul, thank you very much. folks, let me sum this up real quick. Empathy. Empathy, empathy, empathy. Leaders, you've got to have some empathy. You've got to be empathetic. Narcissistic leader, you need help. You need to get up with Paul. You can't do it alone. You cannot. And you can find Paul on LinkedIn, the proper.group. Proper.group. Manufacturers, hey manufacturers, junior leaders, you need some help, Paul's the guy. Okay? All right, folks, hey, thank everyone for listening. Until next time, out here. Paul Thompson: Thank you so much.