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Artemis 2 Progress, Iron Bars in Space & Life's Deadly Origins · Space Nuts: Astronomy Insights & Cosmic Discoveries

0:00
Andrew Dunkley: Hi there. Thanks for joining us again. This
0:02
is Space Nuts where we talk astronomy and
0:05
space science every week. Twice a week in
0:07
fact. Uh, on today's episode, we are
0:09
going to look at the progress of Artemis 2.
0:12
There's uh, an update for you and it's good
0:15
news. Uh, this is a weird story. An iron
0:17
bar seen in space. And no, it is
0:20
not a runaway spanner from the International
0:22
Space Station. Although that does happen.
0:25
And something deadly that could be important
0:29
in the origin of life. We'll find out about
0:31
that on this episode of space nuts.
0:34
15 seconds. Guidance is internal.
0:37
Professor Fred Watson: 10, 9. Ignition
0:39
sequence start. Space nuts.
0:41
Andrew Dunkley: 5, 4, 3, 2.
0:43
Professor Fred Watson: 1.
0:43
Andrew Dunkley: 2, 3, 4, 5, 5, 4, 3, 2,
0:46
1. Space nuts. Astronauts report it
0:49
feels good. Back for more with
0:52
stories galore is Professor Fred Watson,
0:54
astronomer at large. Hello Fred.
0:57
Professor Fred Watson: Good morning, Andrew. Or good whatever
1:00
part of the day it is when you're listening
1:02
to this.
1:02
Andrew Dunkley: Yes, it's difficult dealing with a global
1:05
audience, isn't it? Because you just don't
1:07
know. You just don't know what time it is
1:09
wherever.
1:10
Professor Fred Watson: But uh, we basically know what time it is
1:12
here.
1:13
Andrew Dunkley: Well, it's eastern summertime is what it is.
1:16
And uh, we are approaching the
1:19
hottest time of the year in this
1:22
part of the world. And I've been looking at
1:24
the forecast, Fred, because uh, right now
1:26
it's not too bad. You know, low, low to
1:29
mid-30s, uh, Celsius, which some
1:32
people would be horrified by. But for us
1:33
that's pretty normal. But next week
1:37
we are expected to hit, uh, a string
1:40
of 40 plus temperatures peaking at
1:42
45, 45,
1:45
which is, uh, for those who don't use the
1:48
metric system, that is 113
1:51
degrees Fahrenheit. So
1:53
that's um, that's what's coming up for us. I
1:56
mean some people will hear this and it will
1:58
already have happened and we won't be there
2:00
next week. And they'll wonder why. Well,
2:01
that's the answer. We're just going to burn.
2:03
We are. Burn, burn, burn. Uh,
2:06
yeah. Horrific. It's been horrific. We had a
2:09
massive storm here the other day and it, uh,
2:11
ripped through the city. I actually looked at
2:13
it on the radar. It was only a really small
2:16
cell, but gee, it was intense.
2:19
It absolutely devastated the golf course. We
2:21
lost a lot of trees and branches. Uh, but it
2:24
happened all over town. So yeah, we've had
2:27
some pretty uh, radical weather of late. And
2:29
now we're going to hit a heat wave and I
2:31
don't, I think we've got like six or seven
2:34
days in a row at least. Over the old
2:37
100 Fahrenheit.
2:39
Professor Fred Watson: So there you go.
2:40
Andrew Dunkley: Looking forward to that.
2:42
Professor Fred Watson: Yes, I'm sure you are. It's a bit more
2:44
temperate here on the coast, but, uh, we did
2:46
have a day wheat last Saturday where it
2:49
was, uh, 43 was the highest I. I saw.
2:52
I was out and about and it's.
2:54
Andrew Dunkley: Been quite a few years, quite a few years
2:56
since we had a 45 here. But I do remember one
2:59
some years ago and it. Yeah, it was horrible.
3:02
They actually forecast 47 or 48 that day and
3:05
it didn't get there thankfully. But
3:08
hopefully m. It won't do it again this year.
3:10
But, um, it's been a long time since we've
3:12
had temperatures like this. Um,
3:15
for a few years in a row we didn't even make
3:17
40. But, um, yeah, we're
3:20
getting at least four in a row next week.
3:23
Anyway. Um. Oh, and the other thing that's
3:26
been really exciting this week, uh, is,
3:29
um, the auroral activity in,
3:32
uh, if you saw anything. No, I went out
3:34
last night and didn't see anything. It's too
3:37
much light and I thought, oh, uh, well, I go
3:39
out of town. Uh, how far
3:42
do I go? Where do I go to get a perch?
3:45
Because it's pretty flat out here. Um, but I
3:48
didn't see anything. There was one photo I
3:50
took where it may. There was a little bit of
3:53
a purple sheen in the distance maybe.
3:56
I don't know. Uh,
3:59
last night. The night before was better.
4:01
It was this morning, of course, I wake up
4:04
to all these amazing photos that people have
4:06
taken and they saw them as far north as
4:09
southern Queensland.
4:11
Professor Fred Watson: So. Yeah, that's right.
4:12
Andrew Dunkley: It's been a very intense solar storm that's,
4:15
um, that's caused all this. But it looks like
4:17
I missed the boat again.
4:18
Professor Fred Watson: Fred just got to come with
4:21
us to the Arctic sometime.
4:22
Andrew Dunkley: Oh, look. Yeah, the other thing I
4:25
saw this morning, um, was
4:28
there's a, um, a trip to the Arctic this year
4:31
to watch the solar eclipse. That'll
4:33
be a big one. I think that's in, um, August,
4:37
is it? Or was that last?
4:40
Professor Fred Watson: Um, no, um, there is.
4:44
I thought it was the Antarctic.
4:45
Andrew Dunkley: Oh, ah, it might be.
4:46
Professor Fred Watson: I just kissed. Yeah, I think that's probably
4:49
it.
4:52
There is an eclipse in August. It's the 12th
4:54
of August. We'll be watching that from, uh,
4:57
northern Spain. Um, so we're taking
5:00
one of Mani's tour groups up there to see the
5:02
eclipse.
5:03
Andrew Dunkley: Well, that's the one they were talking about.
5:06
Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, I think the. I think the one you're
5:07
talking about Was untitled together. And it's
5:09
not the same Eclipse anyway. All right, never
5:11
mind.
5:12
Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, I can see the one. The one I was
5:14
thinking of is the one you're going to see.
5:17
Okay. Yeah.
5:18
Professor Fred Watson: All right. Okay. Yeah. Might start in the
5:20
Arctic.
5:21
Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, it's crossing all the places we were
5:23
visiting last year. So
5:26
we're all.
5:27
We're a year too early.
5:29
Nevermind.
5:30
Professor Fred Watson: Always ahead of. Always ahead of the game.
5:33
Andrew Dunkley: Yes. Always get through Dodge before the
5:35
disaster. That's what, that's our philosophy.
5:38
Um, we've got a bit to get through so we'll.
5:40
We'll start with um, this exciting
5:43
news and that is an update on the Artemis 2
5:46
mission. Now we only mentioned that a week or
5:48
so ago, uh, that it was one of the big
5:51
things happening in 2026. Uh, it's starting
5:54
to happen. They've started moving stuff.
5:57
Professor Fred Watson: That's right. Uh, so, um,
6:00
as we speak, the uh,
6:03
Artemis II stack, if that's what you call it,
6:06
with the space, uh, launch system and its
6:09
two solid rocket boosters and the uh,
6:12
service module, the. I nearly said
6:15
Apollo there, the Orion capsule on top,
6:18
uh, is sitting on launch pad 39B,
6:21
uh, which is very famous. Part of the
6:24
launch facility, uh, um, at Cape
6:27
Canaveral. So, uh, yes, it's made
6:30
its journey from the uh, Vehicle Assembly
6:33
Building, uh, to launch pad
6:36
39B, which if I remember
6:38
rightly is 6km. And it took 12 hours to do
6:41
it. So a half a kilometer per hour.
6:44
Um, uh. Is that right? Yes, that's right.
6:48
Andrew Dunkley: Yeah. I think it's like 0.82 of a
6:50
mile per hour or something like that.
6:52
Professor Fred Watson: Yes, that's what I saw too. Um, I
6:55
think when you average it out it comes to
6:58
half a kilometer an hour. But I think it's a
7:00
little bit more than that, uh, in terms of
7:02
um, the maximum speed when it
7:05
accelerated up to full speed, 0.82
7:08
miles per hour. Uh, so that is the start of
7:11
the journey to the moon, uh, which is really
7:13
quite nice. Um, and Artemis 2.
7:16
Yes, the mission, uh, will we
7:18
hope, ah, actually launch
7:21
within the next few months. What we do know
7:24
is that uh, there is to be
7:27
um, a wet. What's called
7:30
a wet, um, test. Is
7:33
that the right word? Uh, a wet.
7:36
Dress rehearsal. That's. That's the correct
7:38
term. Uh, where it's fully fueled up,
7:41
uh, and basically uh,
7:43
undergoes a countdown, a dummy countdown, uh,
7:46
everything as if you were about to launch but
7:49
you don't launch. Uh, and we're told that
7:52
is not going to happen any later than
7:55
basically next Week our time or the week
7:56
after next, which is, uh,
7:59
February 2nd is the date that we've got. So,
8:03
um, that will be exciting to see how
8:05
that, uh, how that goes. Whether everything
8:08
goes flawlessly or whether they find
8:10
a gotcha and have to wheel it back to the
8:13
vehicle assembly building. Which has
8:14
happened.
8:14
Andrew Dunkley: That's happened before, hasn't it?
8:16
Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, it did with Artemis 1. In fact, I think
8:19
it happened two or three times, didn't, if I
8:21
remember rightly. Uh, because they've got to
8:24
get this right and they've got to, you know,
8:25
it's got to be right. And it will be, uh.
8:27
Andrew Dunkley: Yeah.
8:27
Professor Fred Watson: Is the bottom line. Yeah.
8:29
Andrew Dunkley: Yes, indeed. But it's exciting. I think
8:32
it has been delayed. It was supposed to go
8:34
last year, wasn't it?
8:36
Professor Fred Watson: Uh, that's correct. Yes. Uh, indeed, that's
8:38
true. Uh, I mean, the whole
8:41
project has suffered, uh, delays.
8:44
Uh, there is one bit of good news, though,
8:47
which has come out of
8:50
Congress. Uh, I think I should get my
8:53
terms right. But the NASA funding,
8:56
uh, for next year or for this year,
9:00
uh, seems to be, uh, much more secure
9:03
than was previously thought. Some of the big
9:05
cuts that were being planned have sort of
9:08
evaporated. Uh, and I think the funding level
9:11
for NASA this year, uh, is not that much.
9:13
I think it's on a par with what they received
9:16
last year. Um, uh,
9:18
notwithstanding the fact that, yes, the Mars
9:20
Sample Return Mission has still been axed
9:23
from that budget. But that leaves room for
9:25
some other things to be funded. And no doubt
9:28
there'll be further talks on how we get these
9:31
canisters of, uh, Martian soil back from,
9:34
uh, Mars, uh, before we all die.
9:36
Andrew Dunkley: Yes.
9:37
Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, well, hope.
9:39
Andrew Dunkley: Let's hope somebody, um, riding a trail bike
9:42
up there one day comes across it and goes,
9:44
oi, what's this?
9:45
Professor Fred Watson: What's this?
9:46
Andrew Dunkley: Who left this here? Um,
9:49
but yeah, uh, it's good news. Uh, and we
9:51
should mention the astronauts involved. Uh,
9:54
Reed Wiseman, Victor Glover, Christina
9:57
Koch, uh, and they're all from,
10:00
uh. Uh, NASA, Americans. And then you've got,
10:03
uh. From the Canadian Space Agency, Jeremy
10:06
Hansen. And, uh, they'll be
10:09
journeying out and around and back,
10:12
uh, over a period of 10 days, which is about
10:14
the same length as the average Apollo
10:16
mission. Although there was one mission that
10:19
only went five days because, well, they
10:22
couldn't stop because they.
10:23
Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, that's right.
10:25
Andrew Dunkley: They had a bit of an.
10:26
Professor Fred Watson: That was another story. Yeah, but
10:29
it's true. It's reminiscent of Apollo 8.
10:31
Uh, you know, my Christmas Day. Wasn't it,
10:35
uh, Christmas Eve, I think Something like
10:38
Christmas Eve. I think it was Christmas eve.
10:39
Yeah, yeah, 1968. Um,
10:42
um, but, but what's different though is
10:45
I think their orbits around the backside of
10:47
the moon will be uh, at a higher
10:50
distance from the lunar surface than we
10:53
saw with the Apollo mission. So uh, these
10:55
astronauts will be uh, will hold a record
10:58
as being the furthest humans,
11:01
the furthest that humans have been from
11:03
planet Earth after the end of their mission.
11:05
Andrew Dunkley: So yeah, that record currently held by
11:08
Michael Collins.
11:10
Professor Fred Watson: That is correct, yes, yes.
11:12
Andrew Dunkley: In fact there's a famous photo I think I've
11:14
mentioned before that Michael Collins took
11:17
which uh, showed uh, the moon where
11:20
Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin were on the
11:22
surface at the time and Earth in the
11:24
background. And it basically said every
11:27
human being that's ever existed is in
11:30
this photo. Except
11:33
I think that's great.
11:34
Professor Fred Watson: That was him. Yeah, yeah.
11:37
Andrew Dunkley: I mean, you think it's
11:40
pretty. Yeah, yeah, it's pretty deep. When
11:42
you take a photo and someone says to you,
11:45
lady, do you realize you're the only human
11:47
human being in history that's not in that
11:50
photograph? I reckon
11:52
that's uh, that's incredible. Yeah. Uh, of
11:55
course people come back and say, oh, but what
11:56
about the people on the other side of the
11:58
planet that weren't in the picture? Well they
11:59
were on the planet so they're in the picture.
12:01
Professor Fred Watson: Yeah.
12:02
Andrew Dunkley: We could use a bit of creative license
12:04
surely.
12:05
Professor Fred Watson: Yes, that's right.
12:07
Andrew Dunkley: Um, we should also mention why
12:09
this mission is happening. And it's
12:12
based around putting long
12:15
term humans or a long term human
12:18
presence on the lunar surface. But the
12:20
ultimate goal is to create that springboard
12:23
for missions to Mars. So
12:27
it's part of a long term venture, I suppose.
12:30
Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, I think actually it's got an
12:33
immediacy about it that um, um
12:37
M makes the Mars issue, uh,
12:40
perhaps not uh, reducing its
12:43
significance, but uh,
12:46
giving us a good reason to be on the
12:49
moon anyway. And that's the possible
12:52
resources that are on the moon. Plus there's
12:54
still a geopolitical aspect of
12:57
this exactly as there was in the 1960s.
13:00
Um, the Americans are very keen to get there
13:02
before Chinese Taikonauts walk on the lunar
13:05
surface, which they're certainly uh, planning
13:07
to do by 2030. That is what we hear.
13:10
But you're right, um, I mean Artemis 2 is
13:13
a precursor to Artemis 3, which is likely to
13:16
be not next year but the following year.
13:18
There's still a lot of work to do on that,
13:20
uh, where four astronauts will land on the
13:22
lunar surface. And that in a sense
13:25
is perhaps the opening gambit for a
13:28
permanent, uh, or a semi permanent human
13:30
presence on Mars. And yes, you're right.
13:32
Eventually that will lead to, we hope,
13:36
uh, expertise that we can gather that will
13:38
take astronauts to Mars not to
13:41
colonize it, but to explore it
13:44
in a suitably ethical way.
13:46
Andrew Dunkley: You hope not to colonize it?
13:49
Professor Fred Watson: Well, that's right.
13:52
Andrew Dunkley: Okay, um, yeah, very exciting news.
13:54
And uh, hopefully all will go well
13:57
with the, uh, with the tests. In uh, fact,
14:00
they're talking about doing it more than once
14:01
if they've got time. Um, but
14:04
yeah, it'll be, uh, it'll be,
14:06
it'll bring about the same level of
14:09
excitement, I suppose, that we enjoyed in
14:12
the 60s with the Apollo missions. Because
14:14
you've got a whole new generation that
14:15
weren't around to see that. And so this is
14:18
all fresh and new for them. I reckon that
14:21
that's right. That will revive the, the
14:24
interest in, uh, space science,
14:27
uh, as well, I suppose. Uh, if you'd
14:30
like to read all about it, you can log on to
14:32
scitech Daily. But I think you'll probably
14:34
find there's plenty of news on plenty of
14:37
platforms, including the NASA website. This
14:39
is Space Nuts with Andrew Dunkley and
14:41
Professor Fred Watson.
14:46
Three, two, one.
14:48
Space Nuts. Okay, Fred, uh,
14:51
this weird story has, uh, been
14:54
published in a, in a paper about a
14:57
nebula that is demonstrating something that
15:01
at this point in time is inexplicable.
15:04
Uh, they know what it is, they don't know why
15:07
it is.
15:08
Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, exactly. And so this story is
15:11
about perhaps one of the most famous,
15:14
um, celestial objects in the northern sky.
15:17
Uh, an object called the Ring Nebula, uh,
15:20
because it's shaped like a ring. Uh, it's in
15:23
the constellation of Lyra one that,
15:25
um, certainly I've been aware of ever since I
15:27
first became interested in astronomy in the
15:29
1950s. Um, it is
15:32
a, uh, planetary nebula. And that is
15:35
a bit of a misnomer term. It was one coined
15:38
by William Herschel in the early 1800s.
15:40
Because these things kind of look like
15:42
planets, but they're nothing to do with
15:44
planets. They're not in the solar system.
15:45
They are clouds of gas. And we now know that
15:47
they are the bubbles of gas that are puffed
15:50
off by, uh, uh,
15:52
giant stars in their old age. Um, and we
15:55
also know that the sun will go through a
15:57
phase where eventually it's surrounded by a
16:00
nebula, a planetary nebula, very like the
16:02
Ring Nebula. So, um, we
16:05
know a lot about that nebula. And
16:08
um, what. There's a sort of slightly personal
16:11
aspect to this story because a, uh,
16:14
telescope that I Worked on quite commonly in
16:16
the 1990s, uh, the William Herschel
16:19
telescope, uh, which was uh, then operated
16:22
by the uk I think it's now the UK
16:25
and some other. Uh, Sorry,
16:28
I'm gonna cancel this. I
16:30
can't take that call. Don't know if you heard
16:33
that but my.
16:34
Andrew Dunkley: No I did.
16:34
Professor Fred Watson: Ringing. It's ringing. My
16:37
earphones.
16:37
Andrew Dunkley: Sorry.
16:38
Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, yeah, sorry, sorry. I'll call them
16:41
back shortly. Um, uh,
16:44
it's ah, the telescope
16:46
that was uh, built in the
16:50
late 1980s, commissioned I think around about
16:52
1990. Uh, as I said I worked on it
16:56
in the 1990s. A 4.2 meter
16:58
telescope which is situated uh, at
17:01
a place called uh, El Roque de los
17:03
Mochachos, which is the name of a fique
17:06
in island of La Palma. It's a volcanic
17:09
peak. Uh, and there is a major global
17:12
observatory there. Um, uh,
17:15
it's as I said, 4.2 meter telescope. Uh,
17:18
I think it's now jointly operated by a number
17:20
of uh, different nations. It was built by
17:23
the Brits, uh and uh, was
17:26
for a while something like the third biggest
17:28
telescope in the Northern hemisphere. I
17:30
think. Um, it
17:32
uh, uh, has an instrument on it
17:35
uh, which is sort of.
17:36
Andrew Dunkley: Let me guess, let me guess.
17:37
Professor Fred Watson: Descendant.
17:38
Andrew Dunkley: It's a saxophone. Sorry, I couldn't help.
17:41
Professor Fred Watson: No, it's an E flat trombone.
17:45
It's, it's a um, an
17:48
instrument which is, I was going to say is a
17:51
descendant of a. Let me rephrase that. It is
17:53
an optical instrument, uh, which is a
17:56
descendant of something I was very deeply
17:59
involved with when I was there. I was project
18:01
scientist for a thing called a spectrograph,
18:04
which is um, the device that splits up
18:07
light uh, and lets us see that barcode of
18:10
information in the light of a star or
18:12
galaxy or indeed a planetary nebula. Uh,
18:15
but the new version of that we were using
18:18
optical fibers, uh, to look at individual
18:21
objects. Uh the new version uses uh,
18:24
optical fibers again, but in such a way
18:27
that you can look at an object like this
18:29
nebula and for every point on the image
18:32
you can get a spectrum. Uh and uh,
18:35
it's a technology which is known as integral
18:38
Field spectroscopy. And
18:40
uh, they have built something called a lifu,
18:43
which is a large integral field unit for
18:46
the WEAVE instrument, which is the
18:48
WHT Enhanced Area
18:51
Velocity Explorer. Uh, great
18:53
stuff. And the bottom line is to get
18:56
to the end of this long rambling story. This
18:59
is a brand new instrument that is just
19:02
tested. And what better object to test
19:05
it on than this lovely northern hemisphere
19:08
nebula, the Ring Nebula. And so that's what
19:11
they've done. A group of scientists, uh,
19:13
mostly, I think from the uk uh, they've used
19:16
the Ring Nebula just to make sure that the
19:18
WEAVE spectrograph works properly and
19:21
does everything they want it to. And they've
19:23
uncovered a complete surprise,
19:26
uh, that has blown everybody's mind because
19:28
nobody understands it. And that is exactly
19:31
as you've said, it's an iron bar. Now, um,
19:34
when you talk about a bar in astronomy, it's
19:36
not something you prop yourself up against
19:38
to, um, get over all your problems.
19:41
Uh, although you can do that if you want. Uh,
19:45
uh, usually it's a
19:48
structure, a linear structure, um,
19:51
often made of stars. Uh, galaxies often
19:54
have a bar across the middle. We call them
19:56
barred spiral galaxies. And that bar is made
19:59
of stars which are circulating in a, in
20:02
a very elliptical orbit around the
20:04
center of the galaxy. So it looks like
20:07
essentially a solid bar of material.
20:10
It's actually made of stars. So the bar in
20:13
the Ring Nebula is not made of stars.
20:16
It's made of gas. Uh, but what
20:19
is interesting is that that gas is
20:21
highly ionized. That means energized,
20:24
uh, version of iron. So this is a
20:27
plasma of iron atoms. Uh,
20:31
and, um, one of the interesting comments that
20:33
comes out of the, um, data, um, that's
20:36
been released on this, uh,
20:39
piece, um, of research is that the total mass
20:42
of the iron that's in that bar
20:45
is comparable to the mass of Mars. Um,
20:47
that is quite significant, and I love
20:50
this comment. Its length is about equal to
20:53
500 times the orbit of Pluto around the Sun.
20:56
Uh, and so it's, you know, if you imagine
20:59
Pluto's orbit, multiply it by 500 times and
21:01
then take its diameter. That's how big this
21:03
iron bar is. Uh, so it's not an iron bar in
21:06
the sense that something you can pick up and
21:08
hit somebody on the head with if you're that
21:11
way inclined. And I'm certainly not, uh,
21:14
uh, but it's an iron bar in the sense of a
21:16
barred structure in what is
21:19
completely normally expected to be
21:22
quite spherically symmetrical. Because this
21:24
is a bubble of material. The Ring Nebula is a
21:27
bubble of gas. And yet here in the middle of
21:29
it is this linear feature, a bar, uh,
21:33
made of highly ionized ion atoms.
21:35
So as you said at the beginning, Andrew,
21:38
the big question now is where did it come
21:41
from?
21:41
Andrew Dunkley: Yeah. Why is it there? What happened to
21:44
create that? Because it sounds like it's
21:47
unique. There's nothing else like it yet
21:49
found.
21:50
Professor Fred Watson: Not that we know of. That's right. But
21:51
nobody's looked for iron in the
21:54
center of these objects. So,
21:57
um, I think, uh,
22:00
there is, you know, a, um, um, this
22:03
sort of. Well as the, as the article
22:06
we might quote because this is from our old
22:09
friend Universe Today. It's by Evan Gough.
22:11
Uh, the um, the
22:14
bottom line is that
22:17
uh, there are two, uh, let me, let me, let me
22:20
just read because this is uh, this is quite
22:22
nicely put.
22:22
There are two broad exploration explanations
22:25
for this iron bar. Uh, one is that it reveals
22:27
something new about how star. And
22:30
that's the star that eventually gave rise to
22:33
the nebula, how the central star ejected its
22:35
material. Uh, the other is that
22:38
the iron bar is the remnant of a planet
22:41
that was vaporized and destroyed by the star
22:44
as it expanded into a red giant. That's
22:47
a really, really interesting uh,
22:49
conjecture that what we're seeing is perhaps
22:52
the um, remnant that the
22:55
vaporized core of a
22:57
planet, perhaps a rocky planet that was in
23:00
orbit around the star. Uh, when it turned
23:02
into a red giant, uh, it was vaporized.
23:05
And what we are left with is this streak
23:08
of, uh, highly ionized
23:11
gas, uh, highly energized gas,
23:14
uh, made of iron, across the middle of the
23:16
nebula. Really, really interesting, uh,
23:19
uh, really interesting, um, results there.
23:22
Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, absolutely. And, and the pictures that
23:24
they've gathered are spectacular. It looks
23:27
amazing.
23:27
Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, yeah, it does. It's quite uh,
23:30
extraordinary. Uh, there's a quote from uh,
23:32
Janet Drew, who I won't say I
23:35
know, but I'd certainly have met her a few
23:37
times back in the day. Uh, she's one of the
23:39
studies, co authors, University, uh, College
23:42
London. Uh, said says we,
23:45
this is in a press release. Uh, we definitely
23:47
need to know more particularly whether any
23:49
other chemical elements coexist with the
23:52
newly detected iron, as would probably
23:55
tell us the right class of model to pursue.
23:57
Um, in other words, um, whether it was
24:00
ejected from the star or a vaporized planet.
24:02
Uh, right now we're missing this important
24:04
information. So. Yep, really um, really
24:07
interesting stuff. Yeah.
24:08
Andrew Dunkley: And now that they've found it, they know what
24:11
to look for. And they may well find that this
24:13
has happened quite a few times, that you
24:16
might even have one in your closet. You never
24:18
know what's.
24:20
Professor Fred Watson: What. Uh, is interesting to me and there's a,
24:23
a, it's a tenuous link here, but um,
24:26
perhaps the most famous planetary nebula in
24:29
the southern hemisphere and it's one that is
24:31
very familiar. It's called the Helix Nebula.
24:34
Beautiful. Again, a ring like structure.
24:37
Uh, we just uh, yesterday I think,
24:40
or the day before received some new images of
24:42
that from the James Webb Space
24:45
Telescope. Which are absolutely staggering.
24:48
Uh, they show structure on the sort
24:51
of inner edge of this bubble of gas which is
24:53
what the Helix Nebula is as well. Uh, which
24:56
is uh.
24:59
It's unfathomable almost. What we're seeing
25:01
is little bubbles of gas being stretched out
25:03
into this myriad of fingers. It almost
25:06
looks like a grassy paddock. It is quite
25:08
extraordinary. It's well worth a look if you
25:10
can find it Andrew. Uh, and I encourage our
25:13
uh, listeners and viewers to look for the
25:15
James Webb Telescope image of the ring of the
25:18
Helix Nebula just uh, released.
25:20
Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, keep an eye on that. But if you uh,
25:23
want to read about this particular iron bar
25:25
discovery you can read it uh, on
25:29
what is uh, the universetoday.com website
25:32
or you can go to the paper which was
25:34
published in the
25:37
Royal Astronomical Society Monthly Notices
25:40
of. We could say it the other way around and
25:42
you'd be right. Uh, yeah, um,
25:46
but pictures uh, are spectacular in
25:48
themselves. But the mystery itself is uh, is
25:50
quite um, quite extraordinary. You're
25:53
listening to Space Nuts with Andrew Dunkley
25:56
and Professor Fred Watson.
26:00
Professor Fred Watson: Okay, we checked all four systems.
26:03
Andrew Dunkley: Space Nuts, our ah, final yarn.
26:06
Fred uh, takes us into
26:09
uh a bit of a mystery land. Um,
26:12
something deadly that could be important in
26:14
the origin of life. Uh and if
26:17
you would ask people what is deadly to
26:20
human life and life in general, um, you
26:23
would come up with a few well known
26:26
um, things including hydrogen
26:29
cyanide. And that is the topic of the
26:32
discussion.
26:34
Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, that's right.
26:35
Um, now I ah, preface this discussion
26:38
with something that you and all our listeners
26:39
know already and that is that I'm no chemist
26:42
and certainly no um, biochemist
26:45
but um, this is a. Yeah it's a really
26:47
interesting uh, study um,
26:50
that um, I think comes from Swedish uh,
26:54
Swedish scientists. Uh and
26:57
it's, it's about
27:00
hyd. Hydrogen cyanide as a
27:02
molecule. Hcn. It's a chemical formula,
27:06
um which we know occurs uh
27:08
commonly in space. It's one of these
27:10
molecules that seems to be readily formed
27:13
um in the uh, coldness of space.
27:16
So we find it for example in comets.
27:19
Um, and that's one of the reasons why.
27:22
Excuse me. There was panic in 1910, um
27:25
when it was known that there was hydrogen
27:27
cyanide in the tail of Comet Hallie. And uh,
27:30
the Earth was going to pass through the tail.
27:32
And so um, uh, I think all these
27:34
uh, quack uh chemists
27:37
uh made up their potions to stop you
27:40
being poisoned by hydrogen cyanide. The fact
27:43
that it's very, very rarefied
27:46
gas wasn't something that impinged on their,
27:49
on their consciousness. They just made money
27:51
out of it. Yeah, uh, anyway it's in comets,
27:53
uh, it's in clouds of uh,
27:56
interstellar gas and dust. Uh, it's also
27:58
present in large amounts actually as an
28:01
ice in the atmosphere of Titan,
28:04
Saturn's moon Titan. And
28:07
um, it's um, not only on
28:10
the atmosphere but it condenses out uh, on
28:12
deposits onto the surface as well. And
28:15
so the basically the
28:18
link the rocks kids don't lick the rocks
28:22
and don't breathe the atmosphere
28:25
uh which you wouldn't want to anyway um
28:27
because it's pretty horrible. But um, the.
28:30
So, so that has led scientists to
28:33
look more closely at ah, the
28:36
chemistry uh and sort of
28:38
physics as well of um,
28:41
hydrogen cyanide. And in particular
28:44
what they found is that it
28:47
has essentially
28:49
electrostatic properties that
28:52
um, may encourage
28:55
uh, it to assist with the
28:58
formation of other molecules. It's apparently
29:01
got really strong
29:03
electric fields at the
29:06
ends of ah, a solid crystal
29:09
of hydrogen cyanide. Um and
29:12
what they're saying is that that might be a
29:14
property that would allow this
29:17
deadly chemical nevertheless to assist
29:21
in the you know the, the building
29:24
up of uh, prebiotic
29:26
molecules, the um, organic molecules that
29:29
we think um, are
29:33
basically the uh, the building blocks of
29:35
life. Um
29:40
so um, it's really
29:43
a uh, really interesting piece uh, of
29:46
work that
29:48
huh these authors
29:51
have highlighted that maybe uh,
29:54
this thing that to us is anathema, hydrogen
29:57
cyanide, maybe it's the reason why we're
29:59
here, uh because of reactions that might have
30:02
taken place. And of course that has
30:04
um, some interesting uh,
30:07
implications for Titan if it's commonplace on
30:10
Titan. Titan's a world that we think
30:13
could harbor life uh
30:16
maybe in its uh, under ice
30:18
oceans. It's an ice world like many of the
30:21
other uh satellites of the outer planets, but
30:23
also has these seas and lakes of
30:26
liquid ethane and methane. Um, you know,
30:28
maybe there are reactions going on
30:31
in there that involve hydrogen cyanide that
30:34
might have created uh, uh organisms that
30:37
use these um, basically these
30:40
um, liquefied natural gases which is
30:43
what they are as their working fluid. Who
30:45
knows?
30:46
Andrew Dunkley: Well and that's something we've talked about
30:49
before because we you know when you, we think
30:51
of life, we, we look at ourselves, carbon
30:53
based life forms that breathe oxygen and you
30:56
know, and, and have a heavy reliance on
30:59
water. But uh, why does it just
31:02
have to be that uh, why can't
31:05
life develop in an environment that we would
31:07
find toxic and
31:10
well basically hostile. But
31:13
if you can create the catalyst for Life on
31:16
a world like Titan. Why couldn't it develop
31:19
independently as a totally different life
31:21
form?
31:22
Professor Fred Watson: Something quite different. That's right. And,
31:24
um, you know, that raises the question, how
31:25
do you recognize that it's actually life if
31:28
it's so different from, from our, our
31:31
living organisms? Who. Yeah, well, we
31:33
don't really have a proper definition of what
31:35
life is.
31:36
Andrew Dunkley: No, no. And you, you.
31:38
Professor Fred Watson: Yeah.
31:39
Andrew Dunkley: Some people argue that a
31:41
virus isn't a life form.
31:44
Professor Fred Watson: Yeah.
31:45
Andrew Dunkley: So is, is a, is a virus life?
31:49
I've seen that argument tossed around a few
31:51
times. So what debate
31:54
rages?
31:55
Professor Fred Watson: Yeah. A definition that I think NASA uses
31:58
from time to time is a living organism is a,
32:01
uh, self sustaining, self
32:04
replicating organism capable of
32:07
Darwinian evolution. And
32:09
I actually think a virus would satisfy that.
32:12
Andrew Dunkley: I think it would. And it does it fast.
32:15
Professor Fred Watson: Yeah. And it does. And I think I've got one
32:17
at the moment, which is why I feel so crook
32:19
this time.
32:21
Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, they hang on, don't they?
32:23
Professor Fred Watson: They do.
32:24
Andrew Dunkley: Well, you know that, that's, that's the
32:25
natural order, isn't it, in the fight
32:28
for continuity?
32:30
Professor Fred Watson: Uh, that's what a virus does. Yeah.
32:33
Andrew Dunkley: All right. Very interesting story. And,
32:36
uh, don't go to the chemist asking for
32:38
hydrogen cyanide because you want to, you
32:40
know, revive a cat or something. Don't. It
32:42
doesn't work.
32:45
Professor Fred Watson: Because, you know, it's got, um, interesting
32:47
electrical properties. It would be a good
32:49
excuse, wouldn't it? Oh, yes. Well, we'll
32:51
sell you some if that's the case. Yes, yes,
32:53
why not? Yeah.
32:55
Andrew Dunkley: I don't think you could get it very easily,
32:57
could you?
32:58
Professor Fred Watson: I don't know. You'd get. I don't want any,
33:00
but I don't know, you'd, uh, have to go to.
33:03
Andrew Dunkley: An illegal arms dealer or something, I think.
33:05
Professor Fred Watson: But yes.
33:07
Andrew Dunkley: Anyway, if you want to read about that, it's
33:09
uh, in, uh, the universe
33:11
today.com website. Uh, and
33:14
I think there's probably a paper that I have
33:16
overlooked where it's been published. But,
33:19
um, uh, or you could go to the
33:21
ACS.org website.
33:24
Uh, ACS Central Science is where you'll find
33:26
the article. Um, we're just
33:29
about done, Fred.
33:31
Professor Fred Watson: Thank you very much. You're
33:34
welcome, Andrew. And, uh, thank you for
33:35
having me. As always. It's a pleasure.
33:38
Andrew Dunkley: It is good fun. We really enjoy ourselves and
33:41
hopefully the audience does too. They've been
33:42
sticking with us for a good many years now,
33:45
which we greatly appreciate. And, uh, between
33:47
shows, don't forget to visit us on social
33:49
media, Facebook, Instagram. We might pop
33:52
up in other places that I'm unaware of. I
33:54
don't know. Um, we'll have to go and lean on
33:57
an iron bar and have a few drinks and figure
33:59
it out. And, um,
34:02
on our website, you can also, uh, look around
34:04
at the shop or the Astronomy Daily Newsfeed
34:07
if you want to sign up for that. There's
34:09
plenty to do on, on the website, so, uh,
34:11
check it out. Uh, and thanks to Huw in the
34:13
studio, who couldn't be with us today.
34:15
We were talking about the weather earlier,
34:16
Fred, and, um, I don't know if you know this,
34:18
but Huw's from New Zealand, so once the
34:20
temperature hits 6 degrees, it's way too hot
34:23
for him to go outside. So that's why he can't
34:25
be with us today. And from me, Andrew
34:28
Dunkley, thanks for your company. We'll catch
34:29
you on the next episode of Space Nuts.
34:32
Professor Fred Watson: Bye.
34:32
Andrew Dunkley: Bye. You'll be listening to
34:35
the Space Nuts podcast,
34:38
available at Apple Podcasts, Spotify,
34:41
iHeartRadio or your favorite podcast
34:44
player. You can also stream on
34:46
demand@bytes.com. this has been another
34:49
quality podcast production from bytes.um
34:52
com.