Latest / Beyond The Horizon / Kathy Ruemmler And Her Epstein Related Transcript From Her Trip To Congress (Part 9) (8/6/26)

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Kathy Ruemmler And Her Epstein Related Transcript From Her Trip To Congress (Part 9) (8/6/26) · Beyond The Horizon

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: where he left off with Kathy Rumler and her conversation
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: with Congress Question mister Biggs, Miss Rumler. To ensure the
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: record is clear, I want to pivot briefly to a
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: topic that we discussed during the previous hour. I believe
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: that you were asked about clients that Epstein referred to you.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: Is that right? Answer? Yes, question, and there was an
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: individual client that you did not want to provide the
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: name for correct answer. That's a consideration just for my
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: ethical obligation and given that it has nothing to do
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: with anything I think that you're interested in. I just
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: didn't feel like it was appropriate to say the person's name. Question,
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: and you answered my next question to be clear, this
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: individual has nothing to do with the committee's investigation inter
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: sexual misconduct and trafficking conducted by mister Epstein and Miss
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: Maxwell answer, that's correct. This is an accounting This is
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: an accounting fraud case that had nothing to do with
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: mister Epstein. Whatsoever? Question? Has the individual ever been identified
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: as a person of interest by this committee or the
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: Epstein files? Transparency Act. Answer, no question, mister Grant. I
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: want to turn gears a little bit. I know that
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: you've mentioned the gifts you received in your opening statement today,
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: and I know in previous hours it's loosely been brought up.
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: But just to make sure that we have a clear
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: record and accounting of the gifts, I'm going to go
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: through a lot of them, starting with my first question
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: being did mister Epstein give you gifts over the course
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: of the relationship? Answer? Yes, he did. Question and what
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: was when did you receive the first gift from mister Epstein? Answer? Oh, gosh,
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: I believe it was when I was flying to Geneva
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: for my first meeting with the Rothschild Bank, and he, really,
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: without my knowledge, you know, upgraded my flight. I learned
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: that I had been upgraded, you know, when I went
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: when I went to board the flight, they gave me
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: a different boarding pass. Question and this was an upgrade
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: to first class? Answer it was from business to first class? Yes,
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: Ques And what would you say is the biggest, most lavish,
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: most expensive gift that mister Epstein provided you? Answer? The
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: most lavish gift that he tried to give me. I
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: did not accept. I guess it's called a jet card,
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: but it's essentially if you can imagine like if you
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: give someone like a Starbucks card, this is a card
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: that you can use to charter a plane. And it
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: was the face value of it. I mean, there wasn't
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: like a physical card, but it was like, oh, I'm
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: giving you this jet card. The phase value is fifty thousand.
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: I thought it was excessive, and I don't charter a
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: private planes, and it was nothing that I was ever
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: going to do, you know, for myself, and I, you know,
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: just declined it. Question and do you know when he
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: would have tried to provide you this jet card? Answer? Yeah,
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: that was ostensibly a birthday gift for my birthday in
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: April of twenty nineteen. Question. Thank you for that. So,
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: over the course of the committee's investigation, we've identified numerous
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: other gifts. I will stipulate to you that I'm using
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: the term gifts pretty broadly. Answer. Okay, question, So the
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: first one I would like to talk about is mister
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: Epstein providing you flowers? On how many occasions in total
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: did mister Epstein, either personally or through his employees or
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: agents provide you flowers to the best of your recollection. Answer,
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: to the best of my recollection, it was only once,
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: but it's possible that it was other times. My memory
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: is that he sent me flowers once when I was sick,
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: along with chicken soup, which is ironic because I don't
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: eat chicken, and so you know, the chicken soup didn't
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: get eaten. Question and did mister Epstein ever pay for
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: your facials at Bliss Soho? Answer? Not that I remember,
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: but it's certainly possible. Question, did mister Epstein provider pay
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: for a massage for yourself at the Mandarin Oriental? This
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: would have been both of these would have been for
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: Valentine's Day around Valentine's Day in twenty sixteen. Answer My
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: memory was that it was a SPA Day gift, was
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: actually a holiday gift, so it was more of a
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: Christmas gift that didn't get used or whatever. And my
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: memory was it was actually the Peninsula Spaw, not the Mandarin,
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: But again it was ten years ago, so I'm not
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: exactly sure. Question did mister Epstein ever pay for a
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: hair of blowout or haircut Afachai salon for you honor
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: around Valentine's Day in twenty sixteen? Answer. I recall that
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: he paid or insisted on paying for a haircut or
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: a blowout for both me and our shared client, Ariande
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: or Ofthchild. It probably was on that occasion. Question did
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: you find it strange or unusual you were getting gifts
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: honor around Valentine's Day from mister Epstein? Answer again, I
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: don't believe that these were Valentine's gifts. Question we can
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: go through the rigamarole of putting more documents in front
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: of you, but I will stipulate to you that the
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: email that I'm referring to you is from February twelfth,
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: twenty sixteen. Question okay, is in Valentine's Day on February fourteenth?
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: Question yes? Answer okay. Question That's why I said on
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: or around Valentine's Day? Answer yeah, I mean I don't
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: remember it being a thing that he would like send
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: me Valentine's gifts. He definitely would send me a gift
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: on my birthday, and he was, you know, he was
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: a pretty prolific gift giver. Question and sticking specifically to
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: the Fachai salon on how many occasions did you get
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: your hair done, cut, blow dried, etc. At Fakai salon. Answer, gosh,
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: the typical cadence for a women's haircut like once every
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: like ten weeks or so. But you know, the Secai
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: salon closed at some point. I don't remember exactly when,
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: but many years ago it closed, and the building that
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: it was in, the Henry Bendall Building in New York City,
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: the whole got hit with the retail sector turned down
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: and the whole building shut down. So I couldn't tell you.
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: But what I can tell you is that I paid
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: for the vast majority of my haircuts and continue to
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: as an adult woman, I'm pretty capable of paying for
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: my own hair question. Are you aware of how many
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: times mister Epstein would have paid for your hair services
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: at Fachai salon? Answer? I have no idea, but it
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: was probably on you know, one or two occasions. During
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: these occasions, were the services provided by a Frederick Focai
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: himself or other associates at the salon? Answer? Oh, other associates.
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: You know, Frederick Focai is like a franchise, and there
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: were multiple Frederick Facai salons in New York City and
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: I think elsewhere actually, Like so you know, it's like
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: Vidal Sason and so I've never met Frederick Focai or
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't recognize them if you walked in here. Question
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: So to be clear, you've never been introduced to Frederick
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: Fokai by mister Epstein or anyone else. Answer no. Question.
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: Are you aware of mister Epstein trying to provide you
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: a massage at Urban Detoks in New York on March
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: of twenty sixteen? Answer that does not ring any bells.
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: Question are you aware of mister Epstein paying for a
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: spa day at the Four Seasons in DC for you?
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: And this also would have been this would have been
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: August of twenty sixteen? Answer I do remember that, yes.
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: Question And what exactly did you get done at the
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: Four Seasons? Answer? So, I believe I have the time
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: frame right that it was either before or after I
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: was either about to start, or it was after I
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: had finished a big trial and trials or stressful things.
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: And so he was, you know, again, being nice by
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: saying you should go get a massage you seem stressed out,
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: which I'm sure I was. Question And did mister Epstein
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: in fact pay for the massage at the Four Seasons? Answer?
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: I believe that he had his assistant, you know, call
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: and say, you know, please book. She either made the
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: appointment for me or I made the appointment and she
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: called and said it should be you know, paid for
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: on this credit card. Question and you're aware on how
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: many occasions in total mister Epstein paid for massages for you? Answer?
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: I don't know, but it would have been. You've probably
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: just identified the two occasions in which he gave me
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: as gifts. A visit to a spa, the one occasion
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: at the Four Seasons, and one occasion I thought it
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: was the Peninsula, but maybe it was the Mandarin Oriental.
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: I don't remember, miss Tolan. Question, seeing as the nature
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: of the gifts we've covered so far, flowers, spa appointments
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: and massages, did you ever interpret these gifts to be
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: a romantic gesture or a flirtatious gesture from mister Epstein. Answer? No,
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: I did not interpret it that way at all. Question well,
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: how did you answer? Well? Again, the haircuts. You know,
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: the haircut was something that he insisted on, you know,
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: doing for both me and our shared client. He was
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: obviously an extremely wealthy person and it was his way,
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: it seemed to me to be his way of maintaining
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: relationships with people, and by that I mean, you know,
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: professional relationships and in business, particularly in professional services, one
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: thing that happens all the time, but not for me
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: because I don't golf. But you know, business colleagues or
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: clients or other associates will invite people to play golf
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: at their private country club and there are guest fees,
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: and those guest fees can run, you know, up to
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: one thousand dollars. I didn't golf, you know, I don't
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: like really go to like the Knicks games, And so
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: I think he interpreted it as I'm a female professional,
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: and I had quite a stressful job, and I was
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: traveling all the time, and you know that's the thing
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: that you give to a female professional, you give her
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: a spa day. That's how I took it. Questions, so
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: they didn't strike you as odd or concerning. Answer, No question, okay,
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: mister Grant. And you're aware that mister Epstein paying for
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: the glam squad to come to your New York apartment
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: for hair and makeup. Answer. I have a vague recollection
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: of something like that, but I didn't. I don't believe
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: it ever happened. I know that the Glam Squad is
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: basically it's sort of like task Rabbit, where you know,
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: I think there's an app and you can call and
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: have them like come to your house and do your makeup.
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: But I've only had my makeup done once, and I
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: remember it because I thought it looked weird and it
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: was actually before a stay dinner. Question. You've mentioned that
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: your one first class trip that mister Epstein provided to
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: you going to Geneva. Were there any other trips which
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: mister Epstein paid for an upgrade to first class outright,
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: booked you a first class ticket or bought you a
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: train ticket. Answer? There may have been one other occasion
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: in which I was traveling to Geneva that he asked
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: executive assistant. Again, that's where the Rothchild's bank was, and
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: he asked his assistant to book for me. And you know,
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: and I said, you don't really need to do that.
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: If I'm remembering this right. On one occasion, I was
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: going to travel to Geneva around the Christmas holiday, and
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: he asked his assistant to book the flight for me,
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: which I thought was I thought it was quite rude
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: to ask his assistant to book a flight for me.
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: He was, you know, asking her on Christmas Day, and
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: I felt quite apologetic to her that he was asking
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: her to do this, which I didn't need him to do.
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: I was very capable of buying my own plane ticket
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: and making my own flight reservation. Question and did mister
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: Epstein ever set up a dentist or doctor appointment for
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: on your behalf answer? He recommended a dentist in New York.
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: I had to get a root canal, and so I
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: was like crazy enough to get a root canal in
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: a wisdom tooth, which I would not recommend that anyone ever.
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: Do you know. I was kind of new to New
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: York because I had spent my whole career in Washington,
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: and he knew tons of people, and so he recommended
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: this guy to do a root canal, and then, you know,
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: also a dentist. In addition, he had a friend who
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: was an oncologist, and I met her on you know,
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: one occasion at the townhouse, and she was talking about
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: her work, which she was very focused in particular on
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: breast cancer, and so he was introducing us, you know,
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: and he was saying, she's done all this great work
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: on breast cancer, et cetera, et cetera. And then she
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: went on to tell some stories about how important early
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: detection is for breast cancer and how it just makes
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: all the difference in the world. And in the context
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: of that conversation, I made the comment that I had
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: never had a mammogram. Again, I've you know, been working
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: hard in government, and as you all know, working in government,
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: you oftentimes like fail to do things like go to
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: the dentist and fail to do all these basic things.
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: And so when I said that that I had never
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: had a mammogram at the time, you know, I was
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: in my mid forties, and there was kind of like
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: shock and horror expressed. And you know about Epstein, you know,
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: and his friend who was the oncologist, both insist that
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: I immediately make an appointment at her breast clinic to
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: get a mammogram. Question and who was this ps oncologist?
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: Answer Eva Dubin question and did mister Epstein pay for
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: these appointments or visits? Rather answer no, I don't believe
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: they were all covered by insurance. As I recall question,
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: did mister Epstein ever give you an Apple TV or
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: Apple TV products? Answer? He gave me an Apple Watch.
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: I don't think Apple has a TV I don't think.
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: So he did give me an Apple Watch. Question not
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: any of the Apple TV devices that you can stream
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: other apps off of? Answer, oh those little black boxes
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: question Yes answer, I don't remember that it's possible. But
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: he did give me an Apple Watch as a Christmas gift.
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: Question and that was an Apple Watch with the Hermes band.
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: Is that correct? Answer? Yes? Question? And did mister Epstein
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: provide you with a fendy coot and bag? Answer? Yes,
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: question and you remember roughly when you would have received
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: those answer, I don't question. Did it strike you as
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: to receive a coat and bag from mister Epstein? Answer?
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: Not really. I mean, you know, he typically would send
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: as a birthday gift, he would at least send me
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: a handbag. And you know, I assume that he, you know,
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: had his executive assistant basically go to the handbag closet
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: that he had at his house. It seemed like very
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: you know, not a particularly personalized gift. You know, I
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: think for a woman, you know, leather goods, you know,
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: handbags or wallets or you know, scarves are very kind
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: of you know, common, you know, the common gift question.
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: So were you not part of the decision making process
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: and selecting these bags or coats, they were just randomly
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: gifted to you. Answer. In most every instance, the answer
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: to that is yes, I believe that he the Fendi
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: bag that you just mentioned, I believe that he sent
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: me an online picture of it, you know, do you
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: like the bag? You know kind of thing. But the
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: other ones, No, the other ones just came as they
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: were question and either probably him or his assistant picked
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: them out for you. Answer. I certainly could not have
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: imagined that he was picking them out for himself. Okay,
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: so he wasn't trying to style you with certain pieces
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: in any way. Answered no, No, I certainly didn't have
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: that impression. All right, folks, we're gonna wrap up right here,
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: and in the next episode dealing with the topic, we're
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: gonna pick up where we left off. All the information
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: that goes with this episode can be found in the
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: description box.