Latest / Worldview Matters With David Fiorazo / Charles Crismier: When True Christianity Is Seen As A Threat, Persecution Is Here

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Charles Crismier: When True Christianity Is Seen As A Threat, Persecution Is Here · Worldview Matters With David Fiorazo

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Welcome to World View Matters, discussing controversial issues, discerning current events,
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defending biblical Christianity.
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No topic, off limits.
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And now, here's your host, David Firazzo.
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Hey, friends, family and Christ, thank you so much for tuning in and of course for sharing
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the podcast.
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I can't wait to get to our guest, there's a brand new book out called When Persecution
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Comes.
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And I just want to read a little bit and we'll get right into our guest, Charles
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Chris Meyer, progressive policies are leading the way toward persecution of Christians in
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the United States.
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According to Attorney Charles Chris Meyer, what's making life hard for Christians in America
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is the secular progressives who are committed to their own religious system and refused
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to accept any dissent and we've seen this growing, we've seen more threats, more against
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religious freedom, against Bible-believing Christians in our country and it's probably
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going to increase but that's why we've got a book to go to that prepares our hearts
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for perilous times.
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Charles Chris Meyer, welcome to World View Matters, good to see you.
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Well, it's my privilege, David and this is a tough subject, I know it's a tough subject
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but I believe that God inspired me to write this book as an act of mercy because He knows
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what's coming and He wants us to be prepared.
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Yeah, and I mean Paul, there's other places in the Bible that warn about persecution, anyone
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who wants to live for Christ, live a godly life, persecution is almost guaranteed but
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we've had such, it's America is such an anomaly with our Constitution and the First Amendment,
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the protections we have here that not as much as we used to because we see things changing,
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would you care to speak to that before we dive into the book, we've kind of been spoiled
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here haven't we?
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Well, we have, we think of ourselves as an exceptionalist nation and in many respects
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we are but so is Israel an exceptionalist nation, Israel was, you know, formed as a covenant
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with God, God chose them specifically so you can't get more exceptionalistic than that.
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But we have had an exceptionalist nation because of our government, our government was made
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for a moral and Christian people and is wholly inadequate to the government of any other,
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our second president told us but on the other hand, we have a situation here because we
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think we're the exception, we almost kind of formed the tacit opinion that we're the
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exception even to God's rule, even to God's warnings and wooings and isn't it interesting
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that all of the warnings of Scripture specifically in the New Testament are directed to Christians
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and not directed to pagans, they're not directed to the world, they're directed to Christians.
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So when Jesus said that if they persecuted me, they're going to persecute you, why do you
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think you should be different than your Lord?
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And the Apostle Paul said, as you quoted, all who live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer
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persecution when Peter warned about it, John warned about it, James Jesus brother warned
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about it, you would think perhaps that we might take it seriously in our country.
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The problem is we are so adept to submitting to the market that we actually have converted
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the master into a mere mascot even in God's own house.
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So there's a sense in which we serve the market and therefore messages such as this which
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are a message of God's mercy and compassion for us to prepare to get ready are just not
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all that easily receivable.
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Charles, I first of all, the people that endorsed your book, my goodness, Dr. Erwin Lutzer,
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Dr. Michael Brown, I mean, just looking at Dr. Robert Jeffress, David Coupelian, he wrote
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a phenomenal book called The Marketing of Evil about maybe 15 years ago, but Joseph
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Ferra, a lot of men and godly men of God endorsed this book.
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And we need to be ready for this because as you said, we have not really been challenged
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like we are seeing a Christian challenge now or the church being silenced in many ways
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in our culture.
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But I wanted to ask you before we go on, you were a public school teacher, you were a trial
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attorney, now you're a radio broadcaster, where can people hear your show viewpoint?
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Well, thank you, David.
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Actually, the show viewpoint could be heard via our website, save us.org, save us.org.
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And as we've discovered in recent years, probably 70% of all of our listeners listen via
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podcasts now.
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So they can go to the website, save us.org, and under viewpoint, they can sign up there
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for the podcast and begin to listen anytime of the day or night, anywhere in the world via
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their cell phone.
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And just recently, by the way, we had someone contact us from Nepal right under the slopes
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of Mount Everest listening to this program.
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Wow, you're getting out there.
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That's awesome.
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You got to believe it, brother.
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Praise God.
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So save us.org, save America with established as a nonprofit dedicated to rebuilding the
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foundations of America's faith and freedom, bringing a life changing message of repentance,
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righteousness and reconciliation to a nation in acute moral and spiritual distress.
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And let's point out before we move on, regardless of whatever happens, happens politically.
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And a fortunate outcome in my view of the election we just had in America, we are still
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a nation in need of repentance.
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We are still a nation that's in moral and spiritual distress, as you write about.
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And these are times where we need to be ready for what's coming.
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So right off the top, Charles, most people of faith, most people that are paying attention,
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I should say, realize that the tide is shifting and persecution or discrimination leading
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to persecution is increasing in America.
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So how can we respond to this?
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How can we get more people in the church to be ready for this?
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But how else can we respond to that?
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Well, to respond is one thing to recognize the need is another thing.
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We're not going to respond if we don't recognize the need.
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So how is this coming about?
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Well, the easiest way to understand it, first of all, to respond to your initial statement,
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our politics are downstream from our moral and spiritual condition, not the opposite.
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So when we have red states and blue states, those are really political designations of graphic
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or great areas of the country that have either abandoned totally the fear of the Lord
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or are still holding onto the fear of the Lord in some significant way.
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That's the best way to understand the attitudes, the political standards and so on, coming
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out of those areas of the country.
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But when we look at the development of this condition, first of all, we know that it's
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going to happen because Jesus and His apostles all told us and warned us it was going to happen
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and why do they do that so that we would be prepared?
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They didn't want it to take us on a wears, wanted us to be prepared.
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But as merciful, he desires that we come into a firm and complete relationship with
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him and maintain that through righteous living.
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The problem with persecution is that it pressures us into unrighteous living.
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It pressures us in a way that it sets the stage for us to either in whole or in part
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reneg on our total confidence and allegiance to Christ.
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And of course, the ultimate expression of that is the mark of the beast that forth in
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Revelation 13 and 14, where this pledge of allegiance through a mark to a counterfeit
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Christ and His system, called the beast system, a globalist system is going to put such pressure
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on people that the majority are going to fall away.
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It's just that simple.
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Because when no one will be able to buy or sell, unless you have taken this mark, which
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is a pledge of allegiance to trust a godless government and its godless anti-Christ leader,
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you know that the majority of the people who are living by their feelings are just going
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to capitulate.
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They just are.
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And so the danger in this country in particular with regard to that is we have been seduced
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for the past 50 years to live almost exclusively according to our feelings.
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Yet it began as a result of the sexual revolution and the complete rebellion against all authority
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in the 1960s that metastasized into the church and the godless love movement in the early
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1970s, right out of Pasadena, Southern California, where I was living.
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And then after the initial church growth movement that caused us to compromise so much of the
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king edges of our faith and the truth of God's word, metastasized into the secret sensitive
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movement that reduced even the more so, our call to obedience to the Lord.
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And so the word obey now according to many pastors has become the most hated word in
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the church.
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Now if that be true, you can see that we're set up for a fall.
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We just are set up for a fall.
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And so God knows this.
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He understands our situation.
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He's a father and he does not want any to perish, but that all should come to repentance
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and should all come to walk in, shall we say, firmness of their faith so that they will
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not be tempted to capitulate when the trials come.
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So this is really what the book is about.
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The centerpiece of the book are three chapters actually, which I think are the greatest expression
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of tangible mercy of God dealing with first with parents, parents and persecution.
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How should parents respond?
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What can we do?
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Why should we do it?
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Well, it's because God has delegated to moms and dads to stand in his shoes with regard
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to our children.
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His children actually, our children actually belong to him and where his surrogate parents
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to train them, he trusts us to do that.
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And so that's our first responsibility.
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The second one of those three chapters deals with fathers.
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Well, guess what?
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God is a father and he knows that he is, he's delegated to all fathers, the responsibility
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to raise up their children in the nurture and admonition of the Lord with their wives
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as they help me.
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The problem is that the wives have been left to do that while the husbands have reneged
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on the job.
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So fathers need to be called to a new vision, which I did with my book Hearts of the Fathers
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leaving a legacy that lasts.
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Guess what?
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Two-thirds of all those books were purchased by women, David.
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Why do you think that is?
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Because the women have been crying out for 30, 40 years, why can't or want my husband
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because the spiritual leader of our home.
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So it was a book to give hope, a vision for dads not to just take their kids out to
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the ballgame and buy some peanuts and crack, cracker jacks, but to learn how to become a
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genuine spiritual leader with their kids.
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And then the, the third of that centerpiece set of chapters deals with the family.
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Jesus himself warned that some of the most severe and painful persecution would come
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within our own families.
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He made it very explicit.
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And then he also said that not only would it come within our own families with husbands
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and wives and children betray one another, but it also would happen within his own house.
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So betrayal would happen within his own house.
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And so how do we approach this?
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What kind of pressure is it?
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How does this pressure develop that would lead us to betray one another, to capitulate
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and not be able to stay under the evil day?
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Well it's interesting.
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We saw a lot that opened our eyes, I think, during COVID from 2020 on.
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And I always shocked how many people capitulated, how, how the church is, not all churches,
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but how most churches maybe responded.
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And then how we were fearful and the media drove that.
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I know it became a political issue and everything else.
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It was a mess.
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We saw how the church reacted.
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I was a little disappointed by that.
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But when it comes to persecution now, we're going to see things a little differently.
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We're going to still see the church, how the church in America reacts.
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But we're also going to see how individuals in families, as you said.
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And before I forget, I just want to send people to your bookstore.
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And that's over at saveus.org under books, under store.
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Last you can get that book, Hearts of the Fathers and many of your other books.
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That's so important, Charles, what you just said about fathers because we've lost that.
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And you're right.
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A lot of dads, a lot of fathers want to be looked up to as the dad that takes you out to
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a sports activity or something.
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But that's not the role, the biblical role of dads.
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And we've lost that because the moms have out of necessity taken over in many cases.
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So would you speak to one more issue before we take our break?
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You suggest the secret sensitive movement.
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You mentioned that.
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I agree with you that it has done great harm to the church.
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The watering down the gospel, being sensitive to trying to draw in the world and not talk
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about anything controversial, that whole secret sensitive nonsense.
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Speak to that as to why you believe it's done great harm to the church in America.
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Well, first of all, it began with the church growth movement in the 1970s.
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That was precipitated by the God's love movement in the 1970s that picked up the encounter
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and touchy-feely movement in the secular world and in the public schools, which by the way,
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I was a immediate participant of because that's when it started in the late 1960s, early 1970s.
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We had to go through a special training to re-assess or reform how we would speak to kids.
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We were no longer able to say, this is true, this is right, this is a fact, and so on,
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or I believe.
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No, we were told, from now on, you have to say, I feel, I feel, I feel.
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Well, from that, the church picked that up in the God's love movement in the 1970s.
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Yes, God is love, but He's not just love.
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He's truth, He's judgment, He's justice, and that part of the gospel coin was cut away,
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was not emphasized in the 1970s because it was believed it wouldn't sell well,
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it wouldn't market well to draw more secularists into the church.
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So remember, it was all about church growth.
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But Jesus said, I'll build my church, you make disciples.
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We decided it would be better to build churches and not make disciples,
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because you can't measure making disciples, but you can measure how many people you signed up for your church.
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So it was all about marketing.
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So the market became the master, and the master Christ became little more than a mascot.
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Now, if you turn that into the secret sensitive movement, which was the church growth movement on steroids,
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it cut away all of the keen edges of obedience, of truth, so that for the last eight years,
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I've had many, many a pastor and parent church leader on my radio program viewpoint,
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where I've asked the question, what is the most hate and word in the church today?
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And every one of them said the word obey.
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It's become a four-letter word in God's own house.
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Why?
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Because we've rationalized that obedience is a gospel of works.
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Yet Jesus said in Matthew, excuse me, in John chapter 14, four times,
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if you love me, you keep my commandments.
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If you don't love me, you won't.
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But if you do love me and keep my commandments, I and my father will manifest ourselves to you.
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So what this has done, it is so diminished the strength of the Christian faith
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in the vast majority of people in this country that profess to be Christians,
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one even wonders whether they are.
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Let me show you how far this has gone with regard to our young people.
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Our young people now, George Bartis says that in the last eight years,
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only 20% of professing Christian young people believe that Jesus Christ is the only way,
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the only truth in the only life.
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By the way, that's the threshold belief for even being a Christian.
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So only, that means only 80% of professing Christian young people under 40 years of age
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in this country do not believe that Jesus Christ is the only way, the only truth in the only life.
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So they are prepared to succumb to the new agglonetized religion that's going to be marketed
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to the world to usher in the new global government.
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And Barnal also said 92% adhere to syncretism as far as believing different kinds of beliefs together
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trying to combine different religious views and beliefs.
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Well, even the Pope believes that.
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Yeah, the Pope came out a couple of weeks ago and said,
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all religions worship the same God.
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Think about that.
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The victor of Christ says all religions worship the same God.
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He's setting us up for the merger of an entire global government
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that people will be so attracted to because it purports to bring peace on earth through a new
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world order.
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Yeah, peace and safety. We've got to take a brief part.
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It is.
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Charles Chris Meyer, the book is called When Persecution Comes.
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We'll be right back on World View Matters.
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We'd appreciate it and also download the free Freedom Project Media app
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for your iPhone, our guest today, Charles Chris Meyer.
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When persecution comes, Charles, you say persecution happens where Christians
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are seen as a threat to prevailing religious beliefs.
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And there's so much more to that.
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But I'm thinking about, okay, what kind of religious beliefs do people have today?
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Secularism, religion of sex, LGBTQ, globalism, environmentalism.
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They've made the worship of God, the nature and the environment,
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a religion instead of worshiping God.
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Wicca, talk to us a little bit more about that prevailing religious
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beliefs are threatened by the truth, Bible believing Christianity.
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Go ahead.
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Interestingly, Dave, I actually wrote about this in my last book called
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Messiah, Unvailing the Mystery of the Ages.
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Messiah, Unvailing the Mystery of the Ages.
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And what I revealed is that there are dozens of
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messionic movements in our world.
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You can call them secular, you can call them religious, whatever you want to call them.
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But I'd lay them all out there in the book, Messiah, Unvailing the Mystery of the Ages.
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Now, one of the things that will help us to understand this is,
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just take a look at what new ages call their religion.
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They have their own Messiah.
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They're looking at the cosmic Christ.
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And here's what they have expressly said.
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You can read about this in my book.
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It's, quote, I don't ever put down something that I cannot support.
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I'm a lawyer, a trial lawyer, and I don't deceive the people and I don't deceive the courts.
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So I support everything that is said and don't stretch the truth.
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So here's what the new ageers say.
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They say that if you don't buy into their fundamental belief system,
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which by the way is linked to the entire belief system of the coming global government,
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that you will be and must be selected out of society.
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Now, that's the term they use.
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It's a euphemism for removed from the human race.
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Wow.
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Now, doesn't that sound like the oncoming persecution?
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Indeed it is.
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Selected out.
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In other words, you're no longer welcome here.
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How different is that from what happened a couple of weeks ago in a Kamala Harris rally
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when a couple of guys put up a sign that said Jesus is king and others said Jesus is Lord.
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And so she laughed and mocked at them openly on television and said you don't belong here.
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You belong in that rally down the street.
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Now, what was she saying?
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She was saying the spirit of Christ as Lord and his king is not welcome in the Democrat party.
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In other words, there's a whole massive realm in this country that have reneged on the
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fear of the Lord and they're going to wing it on their own.
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And if you don't like it, you're out.
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That's what the war has been about.
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It's been about globalism and a world government and the effort to completely replace the fear
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of the Lord in this nation with a completely different system that will be
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lay the foundation for the anti-Christ to come in and make his devote and control us.
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So if that's in line and I know our time is short, I think it would be important for me to
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share something, David.
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Sure, sure.
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It might help people.
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There's a word called tribulation.
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It's the tea word.
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And it creates a lot of consternation with a lot of people,
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theological argumentation and so on.
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I think we can get around that by understanding what tribulation really is.
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If you go back to the Greek, the Greek word for tribulation is leapses,
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kind of hard for us to say leapses, which means pressure.
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That's what tribulation is.
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It's pressure.
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So initially there's going to be a period of growing pressure,
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just like there was in the French Revolution,
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just like there was in the French Revolution for several years,
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until they decided that's not enough pressure.
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So they brought in more pressure and that was called the great terror.
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Well, guess what Jesus called the second element or second period of the great pressure
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in the New Testament, the great tribulation.
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All it meant was the great pressure.
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Now, what does pressure do?
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It tends to force us to capitulate under pressure.
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Isn't that what peer pressure was all about?
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An adult's face with exactly the same thing, economic pressures, all kinds of pressures.
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Well, guess what?
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What is causing the Jewish people to flee to Israel right now?
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Pressure, it's called anti-Semitism.
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And it's growing so dramatically that the chief rabbi of France is
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get out of here while you can.
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Get out of France.
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Amsterdam chief rabbi said, get out of here, this is not recoverable.
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Now, on the wings of anti-Semitism comes persecution against Gentile believers.
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That's where we are.
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That's right.
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And you also mentioned we don't have time to get into it with less than two minutes.
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This hatred, there's a connection of the targeting of both Jews and Christians.
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And some Muslims will even say we're going for the Saturday people first,
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then we're coming for the Sunday people, meaning the Bible will leave in Christians
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who worship on Sunday.
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That's exactly right.
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Charles Christmire, very important book for these times.
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People need to get ready not to look at it as a time of dread.
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I like the way you explain pressure and tribulation.
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But we have an amazing hope in the last minute and I have to share a little bit about
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just what we can look forward to because it does end well, doesn't it?
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It does. Our hope is built on nothing less than Jesus' blood and righteousness.
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We do not trust anything else but holy lean on Jesus' name.
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On Christ the solid rock, we stand all of the ground, political ground.
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I don't care what political party all of the ground is sinking sand.
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We can be thankful that we've been given a second reprieve in this country.
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The world is seeing it that way.
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A second reprieve.
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But we cannot put our trust there.
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We cannot.
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And so let's seize the time that we have to do the master's will.
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But the great hope of the church is the second coming of Jesus Christ.
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The Apostle John said whoever has that open him will purify himself even as Christ is pure.
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That's part of getting ready.
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Amen, brother.
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So it's so good to connect with you amazing book.
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Very important for our times.
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We better read it quickly and friends.
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You got that, David.
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Yeah, you can go to save us.org or you can get the book on Amazon when persecution comes.
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Preparing hearts for perilous times.
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Brother, may God continue to enlarge your territory.
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Keep speaking the truth.
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I know you will.
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And to God be the glory.
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So good to connect with you.
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Thank you, David.
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Thank you for your time.
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Anytime, brother.
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Sounds good.
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We will keep in touch.
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We've got to talk so much more about this and other issues.
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But thank you guys, Charles, Chris Meyer, save us.org.
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God bless you, friends.
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And as always, keep speaking the truth about things that matter.