Latest / 4-Freedom Podcast / 73. #RU Hooked: An Interview w/ Jonathan Smith

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73. #RU Hooked: An Interview w/ Jonathan Smith · 4-Freedom Podcast

0:00
Welcome back. Everybody to the for Freedom
0:02
podcast. It is John and my co-host James,
0:07
how's it going James? The sons of thunder or back from
0:11
our couple of weeks off from the summer.
0:14
I'm doing well couple weeks. I think some people thought we
0:16
were gone for good. No, we are not going for good.
0:20
We are back baby back in the saddle and looking forward to a
0:23
great episode today. Hey in a couple of weeks, John
0:26
will be face to face and we're going to be at the sake.
0:30
For the sake of the Gospel Conference in Danville Virginia,
0:34
if you have not gotten your tickets, yet, go to the
0:37
recovering from the most podcast.com and get your tickets
0:42
$50. It's gonna be a great time.
0:44
I've already registered John, if you registered Yeah.
0:50
Yeah, I think so. I think so, yeah, I'm registered
0:54
already had to think about that. First thing I was like, wait to
0:56
see it? Did I, yeah, yeah.
0:59
Are going to be there. Hey, one of my favorite things,
1:02
John that we did and I would love to do it again when we were
1:05
at the Meetup in Bourbon Missouri, was we recorded some
1:12
some short tidbits of testimonies from people that we
1:15
had met while we were there. And I would love to do that
1:17
again. Bring our recording stuff and
1:20
record some live testimonies live interviews there on the
1:24
spot at some lunches and dinners and piece them all together.
1:27
And so if you're going to be there, we would love to do that
1:30
and get some some short stories from you.
1:33
And I think that those I think we did three or four last time
1:36
those all did well and still keep in contact with a couple of
1:40
those. And so if you if you're going to
1:43
be there, we would love to jump in and interview you for the
1:47
pie. Podcast, what's your thoughts on
1:49
that? John sounds like a great idea
1:51
and it's good way to talk to people.
1:53
You know, we we this is about, you know, helping people so you
1:59
know if it's it's about people but also being able to tell
2:03
their stories and a lot of times it's through someone's story
2:05
that someone has helped. So I think that's, you know,
2:08
just definitely something we want to do.
2:11
We're looking forward to worshiping and and just, you
2:15
know, being edified through the mess.
2:18
Preached at this conference and I think it's going to be a good
2:21
time, wonderful time and looking forward to that.
2:26
If you guys do not listen to the recovering, fundamentalist
2:29
podcast, the the mothership as they say, then James and I were
2:37
able to co-host that and they took a summer break.
2:41
And then while we were on our summer break, we filled in for
2:44
them with yeah, with with our friends, at the Young Baptist
2:49
podcast, Josh Johnson, and claim a nerd.
2:52
And so that episode is up on, there's, we may link that
2:56
episode to this this episode. If you don't already listened to
3:01
the RFP, you know, you may want to go check that one out, I
3:04
think it was going. There's also some really other
3:06
good ones by the the other podcast host of filled in some
3:09
really good stuff that was that was done there.
3:12
So, You know, it's it's we're back in the saddle back at it.
3:17
James and, and all the networks going to be there.
3:20
We're all going to be able to be at that meat up and the
3:24
Gathering that we've got. So hopefully, you'll be able to
3:26
come and see some of your friends to serve your family and
3:30
have a good time John. Today, we've got an interview
3:33
with Jonathan Smith, he's the great author, he's out of Faith,
3:37
Lafayette Ministries up in the north Northeast, It was
3:43
LaFayette. Indiana.
3:45
Indiana. That's right.
3:46
I always think of Lafayette, Louisiana, Indiana.
3:48
And so he's going to be here. We're going to jump on with him
3:51
in just a minute and we're going to talk through a book that he
3:53
wrote. So, I'm super excited about this
3:55
interview and about what he's gonna be able to offer our
3:59
listeners. If, you know, someone that
4:01
struggles with technology or struggles with social media, it
4:05
will be a great helpful, helpful interview.
4:09
So hopefully, you can jump on with it.
4:10
If you don't think you struggle with social media, This is a
4:14
everybody needs to list this because it's just good.
4:18
It's like, yeah, I don't know. I mean, I think that people that
4:22
think that they're okay. May need to listen to this.
4:27
Well, without further Ado, let's roll our intro and get started
4:31
with the interview. I do not mean to be mean, I do
4:34
mean to be mad. Those that criticize this kind
4:38
of preaching. They don't like Authority.
4:41
If you ain't got the King James, you ain't got.
4:43
Hey, You don't have a King James, you don't have a Bible.
4:49
I'm not agreeing to be surprised and not go to sleep.
4:51
Well, I'm talking. Hey, hey, don't, don't don't you
4:54
lay your head but I'm I'm important.
4:57
I'm somebody. I love you.
4:58
You know, I love you. And I convince you, I love you.
5:01
You better said, you better? Not your hideous Story.
5:03
Come on. Put her to stay awake.
5:06
You listen to me. I still believe to be a cold day
5:12
in Hell. Before I get back down the door
5:13
woman, I'm a preacher. When you got dressed today, you
5:27
dressed deity. This is the for Freedom podcast,
5:35
a podcast that is part of the RFP Network that seeks to bring
5:39
freedom in Christ from the spiritual abuse of legalism.
5:42
Now, here are your hosts, John hollifield and James safe for
5:46
it. And so fundamentalism is
5:52
designed to unpack, the idea of authority from scripture.
5:55
The problem with that is that that's not the defining
5:58
principle in Scripture. It is a part of the defining
6:01
principle in scripture is love. And I'm not saying that will be
6:31
drawn to that sort of teacher. I don't want to give people just
6:45
a Of things they can start doing differently until they have a
6:49
heart out of, which they're going to be doing those things
6:51
differently. But I think bitterness is
7:01
different from her. I would say that hurt or even
7:05
abuse does not have to result in bitterness, Well, it's an honor
7:14
to have with us today, interview with Jonathan Smith out of Faith
7:17
Lafayette Ministries. And we're going to be talking to
7:21
a book that he wrote, and we are honored to have him on.
7:24
As we get started, I'm gonna read his biography just to give
7:27
you a heads up. If he is, he has been the
7:29
director of technology for Faith Ministry.
7:31
Since 01, he's a National Conference speaker and author as
7:35
we talking through his book. Today, he's leads and oversees
7:38
the technology departments at multiple of the Faith's campuses
7:42
and Facilities In these roles, Jonathan has had the opportunity
7:45
to use his passion for things technology, things of technology
7:50
to honor Christ and help others do the same, he has provided
7:53
input and expertise for two engagements at the White House.
7:56
During the Obama Administration, he's use social media to build
7:59
connections with NASA to help promote space, exploration and
8:03
to fuel his hobby of chasing Rockets.
8:05
He's a frequent presenter of biblical counseling Church,
8:08
technology and Leadership conferences and speaks at
8:11
parenting workshops across the country.
8:13
From 03 to 15. Jonathan also served as a deacon
8:16
at Faith Church prior to joining the team.
8:19
He worked with itm media related fields his career in radio began
8:23
as a weekend board, op and news editor and then he moved into
8:27
live radio and on-air personalities, and Commercial
8:29
voice over artist following his time and radio.
8:31
Jonathan worked. As a Star Trek TV franchise and
8:34
promotions with and continues to be a devoted Trekkie today,
8:39
Jonathan attended Purdue University and has a bachelor's
8:41
degree from the University of Phoenix.
8:43
Management information. It's an honor having Jonathan
8:46
here with us today. Jonathan, welcome to the
8:48
podcast. Hey guys, thanks for having me
8:51
and I appreciate you reading all of that boring information on
8:54
some of that I've even forgotten about.
8:57
Yeah, but most of that was true. That's great.
9:00
I love it. Well Jonathan I give us a sort
9:03
of an update that some of our listeners may know what's
9:05
happened at Faith Lafayette. There was an ordinance that was
9:08
drawn up by the county to limit some of the biblical counseling
9:13
that you guys do. And I think it's been withdrawn
9:16
now sort of give us an update on what's happened there and and
9:20
help our listeners out a little bit.
9:22
Sure the the ordinance in Africa understand our geography little
9:26
bit. There are two towns / the Wabash
9:29
River Lafayette and West Lafayette.
9:31
Faith has campuses in both the ordinance was drawn up by the
9:34
city council of West Lafayette. So it would have impacted just
9:38
our operations on that side of the river.
9:41
But yeah, the goal of the ordinance was It's too late to
9:43
ban, any form of conversion therapy and faith is never
9:48
practiced that, but the ordinance came out, basically
9:52
saying, if you do that or you do that, even in a private fashion,
9:55
then we're going to be fines and it was going to be a fairly big
9:58
step of entered interrupting. In terms of what we do is just
10:02
getting in the way of what parents and families were to do.
10:05
Just in terms of, hey, I've got questions about what the Bible
10:07
says about this. And if you approach the topic
10:09
from a Biblical perspective, it could be viewed.
10:12
The negative light, And in terms of what the government was
10:14
thinking was conversion therapy. So unfortunately it came up the
10:19
biblical counseling movement rallied behind it.
10:21
You know, the West Lafayette city council, folks got just a
10:24
barrage of communication from all over the country and all
10:28
over the world. People just stepping up and
10:30
expressing the the right to for us to practice and to teach what
10:34
we believe the Bible says, and as a result, I mean, it did make
10:37
a bit of a dust-up, but eventually god, with the drawn,
10:40
I think it's say you've won the battle.
10:42
We But won the war kind of a thing.
10:44
I don't think it's over but it was very interesting to watch
10:48
that just kind of explode so fast and then eventually the
10:52
Lord was good. He blessed the efforts of the
10:54
church and of others and it was stopped for now.
10:58
Yeah. And I'd heard it on multiple
11:00
platforms that I listened to before.
11:02
John had shared it with me, what was going on.
11:05
I think Al Mohler had talked about it a little bit and mother
11:07
organizations had mentioned, what was going on, which is
11:11
great for Bliss, T that people still stand up for the Bible,
11:15
still stand up for biblical counseling, which is what we are
11:18
here for. And I'm glad to hear that.
11:21
Have y'all had any talks as far as you think there's going to
11:24
they're going to try to redo this after the midterms or yeah
11:30
I mean who knows the elections? Obviously changed things.
11:37
You just have to take it a day at a time so you don't really
11:40
know what's going to happen in the city of West Lafayette.
11:42
You know what's going to happen in the city of Lafayette, or the
11:44
state of Indiana or wherever you may be.
11:47
I think the the when I got out of a lot of that was you know
11:50
the people of the Lord came together.
11:52
It wasn't so much about stepping on face toes.
11:54
It was you're stepping on the freedom of religion and the
11:58
practice of what we believe the Bible says about specific
12:00
topics. And if you think it's only going
12:03
to happen here, the bigger picture is it's going to
12:06
continue. The devil is still doing his
12:08
thing, we still have an enemy and so, it's our, the people is
12:12
the church ready to fight that battle has.
12:15
It comes because it's going to move across the country in the
12:17
elections. Going to change the direction it
12:19
takes or if it gets put on, hold or if it gets ramped up, it does
12:24
matter. You know, one of the encouraging
12:25
things that we took away from that was, you know, it does
12:28
matter. You people should be voting.
12:30
People should be participating in the process because this is
12:33
the kind of stuff that can come out years after you.
12:37
Years before an election John that's that's that's good stuff.
12:44
And I think that the one of the one of the things that was that
12:51
you said was, you know, conversion therapy is not, it's
12:54
not what we do. In fact, biblical counselors
12:56
would be like very much adamantly against conversion
12:59
therapy. And so what was going on there
13:01
is it was sort of like a underhanded, sort of slide of
13:04
hand going in there, saying conversion therapy but It's been
13:07
an all encompassing, everything that would do to try to, you
13:12
know, go after a Biblical based religious model and that kind of
13:18
thing. And so those are things that I
13:20
think people need to keep an eye out on.
13:22
And so we appreciate faiths churches, sort of being point on
13:25
that and Pastor vires is leadership there.
13:29
And we definitely were people that were praying for the
13:32
ministry and praying for you guys.
13:34
And but today, we are excited. Cited because Jonathan wrote a
13:39
book and this is a book that we think is timely and a book that
13:44
is a very interesting conversation type that you
13:47
probably wouldn't hear a lot of conversation like discussions
13:52
about but I think that is something as Christians.
13:54
We really need to take some account of and to take some some
14:01
take seriously and that is about social media and our our
14:06
interaction. With social media and the book
14:10
is called, are you hooked and it came out with two years ago?
14:13
Jonathan, it's been out for a while.
14:15
I think it came out in 2017 then it's okay, it's just me how
14:18
tight it continues to give you mentioned more timely, you know,
14:23
the social issue ever. You can't turn the news on
14:25
without seeing and reading about social media.
14:27
So it has been very timely even though it was written in the
14:31
technology terms of eons ago, it does still have a very unique
14:35
Niche to fill. It's good and you know, from in
14:40
we share as we talked before we had only at we're on the air
14:43
with a lot of history, similar history, and social media.
14:48
Growing up was this, everything's anti, you can't be
14:52
on social media. I can remember kids getting
14:55
demerits in college for having a Facebook account, and I think
15:00
John at the school, the put Christian School, he went to, I
15:03
can remember kids that were there that got in trouble for
15:06
having social media. And I flip on the social media
15:09
now and it's like, hey, follow this same college that has a
15:13
social media and come watch us, and come be a part of what we've
15:17
got going on online and so how the tides have turned in so many
15:21
areas where kids were getting almost kicked out of college in
15:24
these Christian universities where nowadays Christian
15:26
universities are using this technology for their advantage.
15:30
And so we'll just jump. Start trying to jump right into
15:33
it. Why did you feel led to even
15:35
write this book? Even I cannot In 2017 and and
15:40
sort of give us your thoughts there, you guys are making me
15:42
feel old but I was in college, social media was the farthest
15:46
thing from anybody's mind. Know, the Genesis for me was in
15:53
the in the early 2010's. I had noticed social media,
15:56
start the social medias, young, it mean, Facebook, Twitter, all
15:59
that stuff started in 2006, 2007.
16:01
So, this is not something that's been around for a very long time
16:05
and I got Involved early, because I'm a tech guy.
16:08
I'm a geek. You know, I have an account on
16:10
every platform. I don't use them all, but I like
16:12
to experiment with them. Also, it's new stuff.
16:13
Involves I get out there and play around.
16:16
I realized, once I realized I could use social media for
16:20
extortion to get what I wanted out of it, I realized there was
16:24
going to be a need for young people.
16:26
My own children, other people to learn how to use this thing
16:28
responsibly and then I realize it was going to grow Beyond just
16:31
young people. Adults, were struggling here to,
16:34
I use social media back in 2010. Get exclusive access to a space
16:39
shuttle, launch at the NASA Kennedy Space Center and I got
16:42
it strictly because of connections through Twitter and
16:45
how NASA was trying to use Twitter to promote space
16:48
exploration of the promote. What NASA does?
16:52
Which I thought that's a fascinating way to use social
16:55
media. That was young.
16:56
So we're trying to see how it was going to play out.
16:58
But when I got involved and I got to experience some of the
17:00
benefits of that and going to places that no one else got to
17:02
go and standing. So close to rocket launches, you
17:05
can feel the heat kind of a thing coming off of the flame.
17:08
I thought, I wonder if social media can be better used, not
17:11
just within our family is with a Christian circles, but within
17:15
our ministry is, you know, NASA is hanging a carrot out there to
17:17
get us to get us to promote space exploration in the carrot
17:21
being come. Join us.
17:22
We'll give you exclusive access. The church has a lot more to
17:26
promote than exclusive access to a rocket launch.
17:29
We have a thing. We like to talk about called
17:31
eternal life. So how can the church use social
17:33
media? So that was kind of the starting
17:36
point in my own mind. And then, as time went on, I
17:38
realized that young people were struggling here and then I
17:41
watched their parents struggle. You know, how do you let
17:44
somebody go loose on this thing and not go crazy.
17:47
How do you, how does it turn into an addiction so fast?
17:50
What is the addicting aspect of This, I've never felt addicted
17:55
to it. I mean, I can let it go pretty
17:56
fat. You want young people today and
17:59
then and they can't turn it off. They can't set it down and then
18:03
has time went on it. Became you know, the Bible does
18:06
have answers here, you know biblical Counseling doesn't
18:09
teach us that you go somewhere else because the Bible can't
18:12
solve your problem with, you know, the Bible wasn't surprised
18:14
by Twitter. The Trinity wasn't sitting in
18:16
heaven going. Oh, no.
18:17
They invented Facebook. The Bible has the answers.
18:20
So how do we connect? The Bible says, with the current
18:24
technology of the day. So folks are living their lives.
18:27
Both online and offline in a fashion that honors Christ.
18:32
That's, that's awesome. And, you know, so often how, you
18:37
know, as a youth pastor, I see teenagers who struggle with
18:41
their weed when I did this study and I use your material on some
18:46
things. I did a just did a quick poll
18:48
with our teenagers and I share this with our church and I had
18:51
them all. Get out, we had just gotten to
18:52
camp, we were up in Gatlinburg and had them take their phone
18:55
out. And I said, what is your screen
18:56
time average for last week and I had one teenage girl, her
19:00
average for the week. Every day was 14 hours a day.
19:06
That was her average. And I said, you've got to be
19:09
kidding me. 14 hours a day. I said there's only 24 hours a
19:13
day, has been an over half of your time in front of a screen
19:19
and she said, yeah, you know she started talking to us about some
19:21
other things but they are so hooked they were so drawn to it.
19:27
They talk about the you know, how the dopamine levels in our
19:30
brain. How when there's a like or share
19:33
our minds? Just go crazy and that's what
19:36
they are drawn to and they're drawn to Continually scrolling
19:39
and continually watching this device.
19:41
And so I thought it was so helpful as I was reading through
19:44
this book and I encourage all of our listeners.
19:46
If you haven't got this book, go and get it.
19:49
We're going to talk through some ideas as well.
19:51
But yeah, I think, I think James, you know, my time working
19:55
with teens to, I think we both sort of like, one of the things
19:59
that you when you, if you ever work with young people, one of
20:01
the things I think that just sort of hit you as you
20:03
recognize, there's a problem there, but I think The thing
20:08
that Jonathan has pointed out is that after you sort of, get past
20:14
the initial problem with teenagers, you work with adults,
20:17
I think he's see that there's, there's a problem with adults
20:21
and social media as well. I mean, it's not just isolated
20:24
to to young people, you know, adults are struggling navigating
20:29
this, this this technology and, you know, just the same issues
20:34
that you see with young people with relationships and And with
20:38
addiction with, you know, likes and shares and posts.
20:43
I think adulterer it right there in the middle of it as well.
20:46
And today's teens are tomorrow's adults, and this problem will
20:50
perpetuate. If the church doesn't figure out
20:53
a way to teach the today's teens and today's adults for the Next
20:57
Generation because it's not going to get better, you know, I
21:00
can't predict any more that I could predict this.
21:03
I'd have a lot of money but I can't predict what the next big
21:06
social media thing is going to be no one really can.
21:11
But the technology is going to continue to evolve.
21:14
We have to be a ready to teach and to put the Nation and for
21:16
young people and adults to be able to handle it in a way that
21:19
honors Christ because it's going to be a long term but no matter
21:24
what happens in the election, no matter what happened to the big
21:27
Tech regulation? No matter what happens there,
21:29
social media is here to stay and we're going to have to be
21:32
willing to deal with it. Hey, Christ, honoring fashion
21:34
for the Long Haul. And that's why the book was
21:37
positioned to be four teams in those who care about them.
21:39
We want parents to go through this with them, to go through it
21:41
with the young person. I love it when I hear churches
21:45
and youth groups going, Through it, we want to do both, because
21:48
it's a two-sided Street right now because a lot of it is Mom
21:51
and Dad aren't aware, and I think that James had pointed out
21:57
that in the book, some you provide some great evaluation
22:03
questions for. So you may be listening at so
22:06
far this point and think, okay. Well my heart's beating a little
22:10
bit fast. I'm a little bit concerned.
22:14
Okay, but let's get a little bit more.
22:16
Because James because Jonathan is provided in the book like
22:19
some great sort of evaluation questions for that.
22:22
James, did you hear you gonna go there?
22:25
Yeah. Let me go ahead and read this
22:26
and it says I like how you said before you say you don't have a
22:30
problem. Let's begin asking ourselves
22:32
some questions to see if we have a problem or not.
22:36
And so, the first question is this, do you ever walk in post
22:40
from your device at the same time and ended up being any
22:43
time? If you want to say something?
22:45
Well, That's one of my favorite ones because I travel a lot.
22:49
I'm in an airport every week. Almost and yes, even the answer
22:54
to that one is always. Yes.
22:55
Because I watch adults do that. You're trying to walk down a
22:57
crowded airport hallway and then you're running into people
23:01
because whatever is on the screen and rarely is it their
23:03
next flight it's you know oh their FaceTiming live there
23:07
airport experience or you know they're you know they're on
23:11
Facebook live or their met. I'm messaging somebody.
23:14
There's yeah you Watch people that that one's one of my
23:17
favorites especially as I people watch because you just see it.
23:20
I live near Purdue University and every time there's footage
23:24
on TV of students on campus, you know the vast majority of them
23:27
are not walking watching where they're going.
23:29
They're looking down at a device very much.
23:32
So, second question, do you use your device while driving
23:36
without using their hands free connection?
23:39
I would say every person in America that's got a device,
23:42
would probably say yes to this question and the challenge with
23:45
this, One is it till Eagle now and almost all 50 states to
23:49
touch your phone while you're driving?
23:51
Yeah, I just recently got a ticket, not for this, not for
23:56
this. I got a traffic violation
24:00
ticket. Had to go to a traffic school so
24:02
the police sergeant that is like teaching the traffic school was
24:06
going through these types of things and I sort of got bent
24:09
out of shape because of the whole seat belt law because I'm
24:12
like that should be my decision. And then he talked about the
24:16
Device law for the state of Tennessee.
24:20
And I said, how much is the fine for the device law $60 as it is
24:23
it gonna record? No.
24:25
And I said that is more dangerous than somebody just
24:29
deciding, you know, on their own personal decision not to wear
24:33
their see. But I think that's more
24:34
dangerous because that puts other people on the road at
24:38
risk. Whenever you have the device he
24:41
ran and he is his response was, it's just hard to.
24:44
It's hard to enforce. It is very hard to enforce.
24:49
I mean, we see it at stoplights, you can look at the car next to
24:52
your, you know, you've passed a car that seems to be going
24:54
rather slowly. And you can tell the person's
24:56
looking down at a device or something, the walking and the
24:59
driving though are connected because I watch people that are
25:03
walking not paying attention where they go, the damage.
25:05
You can do there, the amount of force of your body moving right
25:08
into something is limited versus when you're in charge of a
25:11
vehicle. It's got a lot of mass and
25:14
moving at a high rate of speed and you're not paying attention.
25:17
The control. Hmm, But your point it's really
25:20
about the why is legally? Why is it not that big of a pain
25:23
Point? Yeah, this number three I've
25:26
seen more with teenagers over the last 10 years of ministry
25:31
than any other thing does your anxiety raise when you were
25:34
separated from your device, does all of a sudden you began to
25:39
have these panic attacks of what's going to happen.
25:41
While I'm away from my phone. Why don't I have this with me?
25:44
Someone's texting me, whatever it could be.
25:47
B, and all of a sudden, your anxiety begins to raise when
25:50
that phone's, not around you and their social networks have
25:53
admitted that this is an issue that this is where it's
25:56
fascinating to follow the trend. You know, Instagram saying we're
25:58
going to hide the number of likes so that you can't actually
26:02
see how many dopamine hits you're getting if you want to
26:05
use the terminology from those like so that the social networks
26:08
are day admit that but they don't come out and say it in
26:11
that fashion, they're just trying to modify the weather
26:13
platforms work to make it. Less addictive to hide this
26:16
still But the hide that information and to prevent you
26:19
from liking something because you can see that 4 million other
26:22
people already. Also like that same thing.
26:24
Yeah yeah I remember watching that documentary on the social
26:30
dilemma and I remember one of the guys that were being
26:35
interviewed said that he was on the development team at Facebook
26:38
whenever they were discussing trying to come up with the like
26:44
button and his quote was so when we were developing that we were
26:48
thinking of a way that we could create more positivity in the
26:51
world. He said we had no idea.
26:53
We were going to create a monster that 13 year old girls
26:56
were going to create their self-esteem was going to be
26:58
created by the base of how many likes they got on their selfie
27:11
influence in our lives. And you look at the development
27:13
of Facebook and Twitter. They were just not aware of how
27:19
powerful the curse of sin is and how the masses were going to
27:23
take anything that comes out in society today, whether it's made
27:27
by a social media company, a big Tech or even by a church and how
27:30
it's going to be perverted because of the curse of set.
27:34
Yeah. Number 4.
27:36
Do you get nervous. Wondering what others are
27:39
posting about you? I don't, I just always assumed
27:42
its negative number five. Do you get concerned their
27:48
activities taking place without you there?
27:51
Mmm. It wasn't the whole, the home of
27:55
the morning and yeah, it says what is it follow?
27:57
Its the whole Monday morning in school back when I was in
27:59
school, we had none of this. So we just talk really loudly
28:02
about the stuff. We left people out of.
28:04
Yeah. Well now that fomo is 24/7 365
28:08
because it's living in real time when you are missing.
28:12
Yeah. Yeah, number six and seven.
28:14
I think that they go so hand in hand and I think we see it,
28:18
we're be, I guess I'm seeing it more now than I ever have on
28:22
social media with some of the various platforms that I'm on
28:26
and some of the groups that I'm in, but do you ever argue with
28:29
people online and have those arguments ever spilled out into
28:32
the real world? You know how many times are we
28:37
just to Quinn the phrase? I don't know.
28:39
Whoever said it first keyboard Warriors Where we were just
28:42
constantly. We're picking a fight online,
28:45
but we would never say those things in front of someone's
28:47
face. And I think these two things and
28:52
even the argument to spill over into the real world, I don't,
28:54
I'm not seeing those arguments into the real world, as I as
28:57
much as I used to man, we used to that used to be part of in
29:00
high school man College. We had those debates
29:03
face-to-face where those face-to-face debates have now
29:06
ceased and they're all online, and we don't have to worry about
29:09
someone's reaction to our face. Well you can hide behind the
29:14
anonymity or not, even the anonymity.
29:15
You can hide behind your screen, people know who you are, but
29:17
they're physically not able to get to you.
29:20
It does fill out when you have, you know, the fights in the
29:22
brawls happening because of a dispute over social media and
29:25
that's more of a young person thing of versus a adults are
29:29
going to argue about politics and really does that turn into
29:31
fisticuffs in the mall I could can for a young person.
29:34
Arguing over a romantic interest.
29:38
However, it has, you know, ratchet up the hole.
29:42
View. You can find somebody online to
29:44
believe what you believe. No matter what it is.
29:46
You believe you can have a movement for just about
29:49
anything. And so when you, when you're
29:51
creating a hostile environment or you're arguing with in that
29:53
movement that can spill out, even in the adult realm, into
29:57
the real world. And that's where this is not a
30:00
conspiracy theorist statement but that's where, you know, the
30:02
whole Russian influence on elections.
30:04
What's True News? What's fake news?
30:06
All of this stuff that spills into social media?
30:09
It takes the wisdom of Solomon to get on Facebook anymore.
30:11
I know. But you can trust any of these
30:15
platforms, you know? You scroll through Instagram
30:16
feeds and you see these photographs of these great
30:18
products Is that real? Does that not real?
30:21
But those, what's real? And what's not?
30:22
Real can make that arguing ramp up because you'll see people
30:27
talking about. Did you see this on Instagram?
30:29
Did you see this on Facebook that you see this online?
30:32
And then the argument starts right there while I think it's
30:34
true. I think it's wrong and all that
30:37
spaced on. Well, let's go back to the
30:39
source of Truth. Do you even know if what you're
30:41
arguing over is real or not? Or is that just a photoshopped
30:44
picture of or did that person really lose 400 pounds?
30:48
Or did that hair? Restoration product really work?
30:53
It's that's hilarious that you said this there was a think two
30:57
or three years ago, there was a story that would pop up on a
31:00
Facebook feed because we're here in Tennessee.
31:02
And it would say, like I think I think the one that I remember
31:06
seeing was head, Jim Carrey's face on it and said, Jim Carrey
31:09
says that he just loves the people of Murfreesboro Tennessee
31:13
and then you click on it. And it has the story about how
31:15
he was, he was driving through, and he had a flat tire, and two
31:20
or three people from the area, stop and help him.
31:23
A flat tire. And I saw so many people that I
31:26
knew coming in that I knew. I just love this guy.
31:29
I knew this and then two days later.
31:31
I'll see the exact same story attached to another celebrities
31:34
face. It was totally fake.
31:38
But people were like, that's that's, you know, somewhat
31:42
innocent where that gives ratcheted up is when you're
31:44
talking about a political issue or you're talking about a
31:46
religious issue or you're talking about a moral issue, the
31:50
whole row, v Wade, thing happening, blew up social media.
31:53
Tia because people started you know venting their perspectives
31:56
on line and then it's amazing to see two people.
32:00
You know, you go online and you read what they're writing or
32:03
what their reposting and it's it can really it just makes your
32:06
head spin. When you think about your
32:09
espousing, what you believe in a very public fashion and in a
32:14
very fashion, that doesn't help you get along well, with others.
32:16
Or would not be able to help you lead.
32:18
Anybody else to Christ. That's a great point there at
32:21
the end, it is a fantastic. Because I think so many times
32:25
the idea of getting my opinion across becomes the Paramount
32:30
thing and not your witness for or testimony for Christ, not
32:35
thinking through the ramifications of how someone's
32:38
going to see the attitude in that.
32:42
And I Jonathan I think that make James and I have been talking
32:44
about this privately about how it seems like some sins that are
32:48
in like normal interaction with people are easy to identify I
32:53
like maybe gossip but it seems like now with the Institute of
32:57
social media people will think that they can do things like
32:59
that and it never enters their mind.
33:01
They are committing that same sin Cuz you're exactly right.
33:05
There's a compartmentalization between the physical world and
33:08
the virtual world. Unfortunately, the Bible doesn't
33:10
have that split. The Bible is sufficient and God
33:13
is Sovereign and all-powerful overall world's the to we have
33:16
now and anymore. We may invent in the future and
33:18
there is no gossip online is just as heinous in his gossip in
33:21
front of somebody's face or behind their back.
33:24
And there is no differentiation and this is the same thing with
33:27
arguing and getting me angry with somebody because they don't
33:30
share your view point. Whether you do that online or in
33:32
person, Person that's what's going on in your heart.
33:34
It's still the sin issue and it applies in the metaverse and
33:38
wherever else you maybe that's a great sort of segue into the
33:44
next question, James. Yeah, next question.
33:47
And this one really parents, if you're listening and you've got
33:51
young kids on social media and our hook to their Vice.
33:54
This question, really needs to get your ears open because are
33:58
you or are your kids slow to obeying when you have asked them
34:02
to give up? Device to go do something if
34:04
their own leather device, they're watching a TV show and
34:06
you say I need to go clean your room or go pack your clothes for
34:10
school tomorrow how quickly are they to give that up to go and
34:14
do that reveals again? This heart issue and we're going
34:17
to get to it in a minute of where they at spiritually in
34:20
their heart. It's just a great evaluation
34:24
question to ask and you write it as parents ask this time and I
34:27
see adults that have that struggle when you have to put
34:30
the device down for a period of time.
34:32
But what is your reaction when you need to get away from it for
34:35
I like to get away from mine. I mean I threw it in the ocean
34:38
and the waves bring the device back to me, you know, I try to
34:41
separate and yeah, right to me, I mean, you got a barrier the
34:44
thing, and then you bury it in a turtle, pushes it up because
34:46
they don't want it. So I mean, I have the opposite
34:49
problem, I probably should spend more time on my device, but You
34:53
see this a lot, especially when kids go to school, or when
34:56
there's a need to separate, go to the theater, go to a movie
34:59
theater, go to a musical and watch adults struggle with the
35:01
whole. Can you put your device off for
35:03
a couple of hours to pay attention to what's happening on
35:06
a stage or on a screen somewhere else?
35:09
Yeah, number 9, have you ever taken a compromising photo of
35:13
someone or had a compromising photo taking the view?
35:16
I like how you said in the book and it's so true.
35:18
Nothing nothing that you do on the Web or on the Internet.
35:23
It can be taken down. It's forever.
35:25
It's always there. Someone can find it.
35:27
Someone can reach it. And how are we mentally being
35:31
prepared for these things? And how are we just, you know,
35:34
doing things flippantly because someone asks us to at a young
35:37
age and now it's out there for the whole world that someone
35:40
could see one day. It's somewhat sad.
35:43
We have to talk about that but you know, everybody has a camera
35:47
on them all the time. Now you're always being filmed
35:50
whether it's, you know, security cameras in the store or somebody
35:53
else filming something and you happen to be in the background.
35:55
But everybody's taking pictures of things and young people, they
36:00
are, there 110% into their relationships without
36:03
understanding the challenges of those relationships.
36:05
And where this plays out is your, my current romantic
36:09
interest I want to do everything I can to Keep it that way.
36:12
So if you want a compromising photo or you want to ask me for
36:16
one because you're trying to leverage the relationship
36:19
against me, people get themselves, these situations and
36:22
this this is an adult problem to sextortion to thing.
36:26
Amongst adults adults that are my age older getting themselves
36:31
into fake online relationships, giving away money and giving
36:35
away pictures of themselves that they would never take.
36:37
Otherwise, this is this one crosses all age groups.
36:42
Oh yeah. Oh yeah.
36:45
Definitely. Would you rather spend time with
36:48
your device instead of family and friends?
36:51
And I think to our heart we probably would say no but then
36:54
when we actually get to the heart of it and we say, okay,
36:58
what are you spending most of your time with?
37:00
Are you spending 14 hours with your mom and dad right?
37:04
We're do. You fly up fly across the
37:06
country for a family reunions and everybody's sitting in the
37:09
room looking at their screen and I could have done that and
37:12
stayed home and not comb my hair.
37:14
Yeah. Why are we gathering in person
37:17
and spending all of our time? Looking at our pieces of glass
37:19
instead of looking at Stick with each other.
37:22
Yeah, so good, that's good job. Oh, my goodness.
37:29
Number 11, did you and do laughs?
37:31
Did you check your device often when you should be?
37:34
Do you check your device off to? When you should be paying
37:36
attention to a movie church service concert TV or even a
37:40
classroom setting? So again asking ourselves, these
37:45
hard questions and the number 12 in parents be aware of this as
37:48
well, but students as well kids. As Well, do you have fake
37:52
accounts that you only shoot your parents or accounts that
37:56
you don't show them at all? And I think this one has gotten
37:58
so this five years ago when you wrote this, I think this now
38:02
that one right there is so huge nowadays that someone has
38:07
accounts and accounts and accounts that no one even knows
38:10
about. I saw it even summer camp.
38:14
This year, I had a teenager show me a picture or something that
38:19
she took and I said, As it was that I said I didn't see that on
38:23
your Snapchat, because she just got all of this is on a
38:26
different. This is on a different one.
38:27
This is on, this is on one that my parents can't see that.
38:30
I said what she said that out loud.
38:33
Yeah she didn't care and I'm like, well you probably hit tell
38:36
your parents. You've got these, I don't know,
38:37
they don't care. But all of a sudden these are
38:40
there's reactions. These kids have things that
38:42
their parents don't know about and they're just withholding
38:46
information. And so, I think this this trend
38:49
has gotten so has got I'm so huge in our culture today that
38:54
we need as parents, and I've got a nine-year-old who's going to
38:58
be in this world quicker than I ever imagined that we need to be
39:02
aware of that. We need to know what's going on.
39:05
Jonathan what would be a heart motivation for something like
39:08
that? Like, you know, creating a fake
39:11
account? So I'm not a smart person, so I
39:16
can barely handle one account, and if you follow me on any of
39:20
these, I put the same thing everywhere.
39:22
Because I'm just not creative or smart enough to curate a content
39:26
for different audiences on different platforms, let alone.
39:31
Curating different content for different audiences for
39:34
different accounts within the same platform.
39:37
So the heart issue, I think that it might so I don't do it
39:40
because I'm stupid, the heart issue.
39:42
Our young people is it's that which angle is going to get me
39:46
the most popularity which angle is going to get me.
39:48
The most likes, the most reactions and part of that.
39:52
That's why there's influencers online these online influencers
39:55
know how to generate traffic and content and likes based on their
39:59
audience. That's what these young people
40:01
are doing when they have multiple accounts and then they
40:03
have, because I want the attention, it's all about me,
40:06
getting get more to me. And if I can't do that with one
40:09
account, I'm going to have 20 account and then your you become
40:12
a slave, Your audience. So it's not a matter of posting
40:14
things to please. The Lord is posting things to.
40:16
Please your audience to get those likes.
40:18
To get those comments to get that traffic flow and they want
40:23
to be popular. So you have that this audience
40:26
on popular, here's my Sunday audience.
40:27
Here's my Monday audience. Here's my in school audience.
40:31
Here's my out of school audience, hears this account, my
40:33
parents and all of their friends can see and then here's all my
40:36
private messaging groups and the content within all those again,
40:39
you can't hide anything from the Lord but As we think we can.
40:43
So we have a private message feet over here, that's pure sin.
40:46
And over here, on this side, we're posting a Bible verse that
40:49
picture of the sunset. It's pushing the audience to get
40:53
that like, to get that popularity and they will.
40:56
That's why you talk about the young lady was 14 hours.
40:58
It takes a lot of time to do this and to manage your
41:02
personality to manage your online personality across, all
41:06
these different audiences. Well, as we continue on and
41:12
we'll sort of get more to the heart of this.
41:15
The first thing that we must address in everything is our
41:18
relationship with Jesus. If Jesus, as you said in the
41:21
book is the Throne of our heart, then all other ways through the
41:26
Holy Spirit, we're going to be able to have the power to
41:28
overcome these things. But you list for things that
41:32
could potentially be the Throne of our heart Pride popularity,
41:36
rebellion and acceptance, Let's just talk through these
41:39
one-by-one. Pride as Pride begins to seep
41:43
in, as Pride begins to, you want to be noticed, you want to be
41:47
seen, you want to be heard by these things.
41:49
How can prod take over the Throne of our heart and make us
41:54
do things that we never would have thought we would have done?
41:58
Well, you know, the out of the abundance of the heart, the
42:00
mouth speaks and you can turn that around, you know, the
42:02
abundance of the heart, our fingers typewriter the abundance
42:05
of the heart. We post on platforms.
42:08
So, when Pride snakes in, there it goes, back to the Y, have
42:11
five accounts. Well, I want to master each one
42:14
of those and I want to get as many likes and comments as I
42:16
can. So I'm going to to feed my
42:20
desire to be satisfied. I'm going to use, you know,
42:23
satisfaction here on this Earth. So my pride drives me to say,
42:26
I'm going to have these accounts, I'm going to hide
42:28
stuff from different people. There's also the element of I'm
42:31
going to be the next big thing. Mmm, every young person wants to
42:36
be the next pick your online star.
42:38
My daughter doesn't like it when I tell the story but we were at
42:41
a restaurant in Newport Beach, California.
42:43
And we were sitting there eating with some friends and she just
42:45
starts getting all giddy and I said, what's going on, whether
42:49
you are somebody here, we should know.
42:51
And there was some guy she knew on, in, from YouTube sitting at
42:55
a table across the way. So I said, well, let's go meet
42:58
him. He's got all these followers,
43:01
you know, who he is, I've never heard of him.
43:04
I mean, I know what she watches on YouTube, but that doesn't
43:06
mean I know the names of every Every person she watched the
43:10
video from, so we went and met him.
43:12
She was his giddy, his, I was when I met Captain Kirk.
43:16
I mean it was just that kind of a experience and that that's the
43:22
goal. They want to be that next big
43:24
star. They want to be the next big
43:25
influence or so that drives them to create content to do things
43:29
that don't focus on pleasing the Lord.
43:30
But focus on how do I, how do I become famous in?
43:33
Our Fame is not in and of ourselves.
43:35
Our Fame should be given to us from above and Young people
43:39
don't see it that way. It's I'm going to make myself a
43:41
big deal. Yeah, I think you hit hit record
43:46
right there because I think that that whole idea of being an
43:49
influencer has become the the biggest thing and culture right
43:54
now, everybody is. I mean, there's it's no Talent
43:58
involved. Maybe sometimes there is some
44:00
Talent involved, but it's all about being an influencer, and
44:05
then getting ad deals and that kind of thing and trying to grow
44:07
up and it's It's It's just sometimes it's Junior higher.
44:14
What they want to be when they grow up, when I was a kid, we
44:16
all wanted to be policemen or firemen or you know, Pilots or
44:21
something. Now you ask kids what they want
44:23
to be, I want to be an influencer.
44:24
Yeah, I want to be miss. You have is you have a sixth
44:27
grader that wants to grow up and be an influencer okay.
44:31
If I mean but what are you influencing people for?
44:33
That goes back to the harder you influencing people for good,
44:36
influencing people for evil or do you even know what you're
44:38
getting? It's done for well.
44:39
I just want to make a lot of money.
44:41
Okay. Well we're back to the heart
44:42
again. What are you what are you trying
44:44
to accomplish? Yeah.
44:46
And ultimately as you've alluded to many times in that right
44:50
there proudly the popularity because you want to be the
44:53
person that's noticed on the street, you want to be the
44:55
person that some stranger, you've never met before comes up
44:59
to you and begins to worship you for how well you've presented
45:04
yourself online. How well you've made deals in
45:07
the money you've made. In the things that you can give
45:10
away and how you can benefit them and you want that feeling
45:13
of popularity, it goes back to even as a kid in five six, seven
45:18
years old when you're playing dodgeball and you want to be
45:22
that first kid picked. Okay?
45:24
Because your man, your puffed up man, I'm the best out here.
45:27
I'm the first one. No one wants to be the last
45:29
person picked in our heart. You may well that's okay.
45:33
You know, they say the best for last you can make any excuses
45:35
but that popularity that that leads to next.
45:38
Begins to rule every aspect of our life.
45:42
We begin to make compromising photos.
45:44
We begin to see things online that we wouldn't say.
45:47
Because how popular can I get? And this begins to drive us to
45:51
this next thought of popularity and it's 24/7 now.
45:56
So it used to be you know before 2007 which wasn't that long ago,
46:01
you could kind of control this because you only had to be good
46:05
when you're with other people you only had to focus on putting
46:08
on your Your heirs or pretending to be something you weren't when
46:11
you around other people. Now it's 24/7 365 your
46:15
popularity online. You make one bad post, you can't
46:20
delete it. That's the funny thing.
46:21
It was adults. We all talk about and now
46:22
deleted tweet or somebody posted something.
46:25
They shouldn't have and it got screen.
46:26
Grab at the celebrity deleted it.
46:28
The young kids. They don't even connect with
46:30
that but it's your popularity lives with you all the time.
46:33
There is no separation from it. And when you have that Persona,
46:37
and your pride is driving to be Popular.
46:39
You're going to spend 14 hours a day because you don't want to
46:42
risk being left out. You don't want to risk something
46:44
moving on, without you, because you want to keep that going all
46:46
the time. It doesn't ever stop.
46:49
I remember watching this happen to someone.
46:52
Who would make it make social media videos with about the
46:59
gospel and they'd make social media videos about, you know,
47:03
bringing a scriptural, truth to someone hurting and then they'd
47:08
make a rant video. About some kind of political
47:10
situation and you watched it, which one ended up getting more
47:15
views, more likes, more shares was the Rants.
47:18
And So eventually, what happened was all of these other things.
47:22
Ended, they stopped happening and everything about the
47:26
platform platform became the rent videos to where, that's
47:32
what they're known for now. And now, you can see clear as
47:36
day, everything that is done. Is used to grow and get more
47:42
popular and to just feed that base, the social media company
47:48
is because of some recent lawsuits and government
47:50
intervention have had to kind of peel back the curtain if you
47:54
will and explode explain how below the layers, it works.
47:58
And what you just said is how it works their algorithms rate the
48:01
- higher than the positive because that's where people are
48:05
going. And so when they assign value to
48:08
that, Anger icon on Facebook, versus the like icon, the anger
48:13
ones, get higher values and because what you said,
48:17
organically happens in this increased human nature.
48:20
That's how the social companies are balancing the traffic
48:22
because the negative is, what keeps it going.
48:24
The conspiracy theory is what keeps it going on.
48:28
That kind of stuff is the value of the platform anymore because
48:32
that's where everybody goes. If your business model is based
48:34
on people, clicking a reaction button of some kind then Then
48:39
you're going to push that forward regardless of whether
48:41
the reaction is positive or negative very much.
48:44
So the prod popularity and then we get this term Rebellion.
48:49
How does rebellion play a part in this?
48:51
I like the definition that you could gave, it's simply to
48:54
resist authority to resist. Someone that is in control over
48:59
you. Our goal is to be under Christ
49:03
and to be in subjection to him and what he would have for us.
49:07
But all of a sudden, we Rebel against him.
49:09
We were going to rebel against Authority, our parents.
49:13
How does this popularity then evolved into Rebellion?
49:17
Well, the idol of our heart is what drives a lot of what we do.
49:20
And so when you're when you want to be popular and you want to
49:22
spend 14 hours a day online and your parents say, why don't you
49:26
put the phone down and eat some real food and communicate with
49:28
people in 3D instead of in 2D? And you say no the no response
49:33
is when you've just Rebel and this happens all the time, I
49:37
mean when When the government or the law says, don't hold your
49:41
phone while driving. I have a choice to make in my
49:44
car when I need to pick up the phone when I don't have car play
49:47
set up or something like that. At that moment I'm going to
49:50
either Rebel or submit and with devices because it with this all
49:55
the time and around us all the time.
49:57
The Rebellion comes out pretty clear pretty fast.
49:59
Hey, we're going to have a family dinner in the family.
50:01
Rule is we don't have devices at the table, you're going to learn
50:05
pretty fast. If there's Rebellion, I when I,
50:07
when I speak on this topic, I show a Full of a family, the
50:10
commercial is selling lasagna. And the point of the commercial
50:13
is, our lasagna is so good. Your child will put their device
50:17
down and come to the dinner table.
50:20
That's a commercial selling was on you.
50:23
Why do we need good lasagna to help kids put their devices?
50:26
I don't obey their parents. The Bible helps us know what
50:30
that far greater than any kind of lasagna ever could help us
50:32
out with that. So, the Rebellion is just the
50:34
natural in the Sin, cursed world, the natural and flow of,
50:38
I want to Be popular. I want to be accepted.
50:41
I wanted my pride is driving a lot of this and so has a result
50:45
of that we have to constantly be submitting ourselves and
50:49
humbling ourselves and asking the Lord for help.
50:51
Because this side of Heaven, the Rebellion comes easy.
50:55
And even in a lot of popular culture rebellions and positive
50:58
thing. You know, I like Star Wars the
50:59
good guys in Star Wars are the Rebellion.
51:03
Yep. Rebelling against Authority.
51:05
Rebelling is not a Biblical concept.
51:08
It's about in the Bible has in is something that we have to be
51:11
constantly on guard against Yeah, and and let's talk for a
51:16
moment, as we're thinking through this, and you said in
51:18
the book about an echo chamber, why does it, why what is the
51:22
appeal of an echo chamber on social media?
51:25
Well, in part itself validation? Because it, but as it bounces
51:30
around and what you throw out, there comes back as it gets
51:34
louder and louder. All of a sudden, you're one of
51:35
you, you perceive as being the view of Millions.
51:39
If I believe that the grass is black and the native color of
51:43
grass is black. I'm convinced I could go online
51:47
and start a movement that can be pretty strong and it says I
51:49
believe that grass is black. The wavelength of the light
51:53
reflecting off, the grass is black.
51:57
All of a sudden, anything you believe.
51:59
Somebody out there is going to validate for you and it's going
52:02
to come back louder, and it gets louder, and louder and louder
52:06
and louder. And so, I think in that,
52:08
Happened to them in the the grass analogy.
52:10
Someone stupid, when you go out and start throwing out your
52:13
conspiracy theories, when you go out there and throw it out your
52:15
political views based in the Bible or not, all of a sudden
52:19
you believe you're somehow, right?
52:20
Because everybody had signs on and says, I agree with you for
52:24
the Young Girls, It's Fashion. I'm going to post a picture of
52:27
what I'm wearing and somehow what I'm wearing has validity.
52:30
If a lot of people think it's good.
52:33
No, your validity doesn't come from anybody on this planet.
52:39
That's right. And then we leave in this
52:42
acceptance matter which is what you just hit on the desire to be
52:46
accepted through this Rebellion, which ultimately leads us to
52:50
this Echo chamber which leads us to trying to stay ahead of.
52:55
I don't even know how many social media platforms are.
52:57
Every time I turn around, I hear of a new one that just came out
53:01
but wanting to be on these platforms.
53:03
Forms so that someone new can accept me.
53:06
Someone new will like something I've done and it drives us to
53:10
how many people can can accept us in our life.
53:13
When really it's us accepting that one person Jesus and
53:17
trusting in Him and everything that we do.
53:20
But so often this this acceptance drives us to
53:25
rebellions our parents rebel against our Authority rebelled
53:28
against everything because we want to be accepted and this is
53:32
in every day of life. This is I'm helping coach
53:36
football for my nine-year-old this year, which is if you've
53:39
never coached nine to ten years. I'll pray for you heart.
53:44
Thank you. Herding cats is what more like
53:47
what it should be called. But just, just this past week.
53:51
There was a kid that whose mom said that he was getting bullied
53:55
and he they blame my daughter and she was like it every
53:58
practice and the kid just want to be accepted.
54:01
I'm like, hey man, my daughter hadn't even been At any price is
54:03
the first brightest. She's been to but we talked
54:06
through it and I helped him out my daughter.
54:08
Apologize if she said anything but later come to find out.
54:12
It wasn't my daughter at all, but this kid just wanted to be
54:14
accepted so he came in lied. So that his mom would take his
54:18
side to the, he could be accepted in these other kids
54:21
would get in trouble. I mean, this is, this is
54:23
five-year-old six-year-old stuff that's going on, but when it's
54:26
elevated into a form of social media platform, where millions
54:29
of people are interacting and accepting you, You, this is
54:33
where we get this transgender movement where people were
54:35
accepted in the things that they say and do.
54:38
And when they're accepted here, they follow their because
54:41
they're accepted over there, and they're been rejected somewhere
54:44
else. And so they follow the form of
54:46
acceptance. And what I don't think if a
54:49
five-year-old is figuring that out in the analog world, you can
54:53
bet a 50 year old has figured out how to manipulate or how to
54:57
put a view point out there that gets them, except that gets them
55:01
some attention. And that's, that's the challenge
55:04
for adults online. As you don't even understand
55:07
what's happening with, what you're reading.
55:10
And the acceptance desire goes to the level of people
55:13
committing suicide based on perceived online bullying.
55:18
So young people that kill themselves because they were
55:20
being bullied online. Those things are still moving
55:23
through the courts but it's fascinating to watch.
55:25
Are you legally liable? If you are accused of and
55:29
convicted of bullying somebody online because they kill
55:32
themselves. Are we teaching that are we
55:35
teaching our young people that actions have consequences and
55:38
are we teaching our young people to put things through a Biblical
55:41
worldview in a Biblical filter because otherwise, you're just
55:45
going online and you're getting pulled down, whatever rabbit.
55:47
Hole is the hole of the day. Yeah.
55:51
It's good. John what's your thoughts?
55:53
There, you've sort of zoned out a little bit on this and making
55:56
sure you're still alive and awake over there.
55:57
Come on man. Now, I mean, I honestly feel
56:04
like I got to repent, after this is over.
56:06
I mean, Jonathan's killing me over here.
56:10
But now, this is, this is great stuff.
56:12
I think this is stuff that, like I said, earlier, I think there's
56:15
so many things that we've gotten used to, as a, especially, let's
56:18
just talk to church culture. I think we've gotten so used to
56:21
Certain things with the church culture as the physical idea of
56:26
interaction sin behavior. And I think that we haven't made
56:31
the Cognitive Connection of these things in the digital, one
56:35
in the social media realm. And I think that Christians need
56:39
to come to terms on. Yeah.
56:41
Just because this is on social media.
56:43
And this is happening is still sin and it's still something
56:47
that you have to be on guard for because your heart as And I'm
56:51
gonna throw Calvin come because you know, quote here, your heart
56:55
is an idol Factory and if there's anything wanting to come
57:00
after your heart to create more Idols in it, it is social media.
57:07
And if I could stir the pot, just a little bit more, are we
57:12
has parents in his Christians at the church level at the
57:15
corporate level and at the family level, are we teaching
57:19
biblical principles in? Our way, that matters you
57:22
mentioned, transgender are we teaching about what that is or
57:27
are we letting social media teach our kids?
57:29
Well, let me let me really stir the pot.
57:31
Do your, what do your kids believe about abortion?
57:35
And I'm intentionally not The answer the question, but what
57:38
are you teaching? Your kids about abortion.
57:40
What do you believe? The Bible says about abortion,
57:43
or is social media teaching. Your young people could pick the
57:47
current event of the day, you know?
57:49
Right now. Abortions, fairly at Hot Topic.
57:51
What are your kids believe about abortion, more?
57:53
Hot topics are going to come up between now and the election.
57:57
That's what happens with political ads.
57:58
So has things. What are you teaching your kids
58:01
about what the Bible says? We just talked about is the
58:04
world teaching your kids or the church is the church teaching
58:06
our kid. Social media puts the world in
58:08
our kids hands, 24/7 365. There is no split from the world
58:12
view. The world is shouting,
58:14
Christians or Whispering where this gets, even more
58:17
complicated. Is when you talk about matters
58:19
of intimacy and sex, you know, if you're not teaching about
58:22
abortion, are you teaching? And by what the Bible says about
58:24
sex, the internet certainly is social media is full of
58:29
teaching, an improper view not just of sex and intimacy but of
58:32
body image of our whose image are recreated in.
58:37
You know are we willing to have awkward discussions and teach
58:40
our kids and you can't do this unless you have a foundation
58:42
with your young people of I want to invest in you and teach you
58:46
what the Bible has to say. So you have that foundation for
58:49
whatever the next Hot Topic of social media that you're going
58:52
to come across is because they're seeing a lot of the same
58:56
day, scroll the same way we scroll.
58:58
And if you're scrolling by something and thinking, wow, I
59:01
wonder if my kids are seeing at the answers.
59:03
Probably yes. But do you have the foundation
59:05
with your children? You have that.
59:07
Opportunity to sit down and say, hey, let's talk about what
59:09
you're seeing online, stalking what the Bible has to say.
59:12
And let's make that application, because the application will
59:14
lead them into their adult life. The restrictions you place on
59:19
them now will not and the restrictions are necessary.
59:21
You need to be restricting, you need to be providing some
59:24
teaching opportunities because of those restrictions but it's
59:27
what you teach that last into. Adulthood, it's not the fact
59:30
that right now, you only allow them to be on Facebook, for a
59:32
certain number of hours a day. Yeah.
59:35
For Instagram, or SnapChat, or pick your thing.
59:39
You mentioned this and we'll go ahead and sake of time.
59:42
We need to wrap this up a little bit, it's been great
59:45
conversation but what are some practical advice that you would
59:48
give to parents and two teens on how to choose your book?
59:53
Title unhook from the grip of technology for teenagers?
59:57
You need to be able to have somebody.
59:58
You can ask that you can trust and you're willing to talk to so
1:00:01
whether if that's not your parents home.
1:00:03
And I hope there's a, there's a church.
1:00:05
For some sort of a Christian person in your environment that
1:00:08
you could talk to and say I need help with this and get help
1:00:11
talking to them and get help talking to your parents, and be
1:00:15
willing to submit yourself. And say, I want to live in a way
1:00:17
that's, that's god-honoring. If you can't get to that point,
1:00:20
there's not a lot we can do for you because you don't want to,
1:00:24
if your heart isn't bad towards pleasing, the Lord or bent
1:00:28
towards constantly renewing itself to please.
1:00:30
The Lord, there's not a lot of things that are going to force
1:00:32
you to do that, especially once you become an adult.
1:00:35
You're going to under your parents Authority anymore, for
1:00:38
parents first, make sure you have a relationship where your
1:00:41
kids will talk to you. I want my kids to ask me about
1:00:44
anything. They see, I don't want them to
1:00:46
feel the need to go anywhere else but to me and to my wife,
1:00:49
we've had some great awkward discussions but I want to have
1:00:52
the opportunity to do that. I don't want anybody else doing
1:00:55
that before I do because I don't want to unprogrammed.
1:00:57
I want to be on the front end doing the programming, doing the
1:01:01
teaching if you will. The second thing is are you
1:01:04
modeling any of this? Are you doing this in your life,
1:01:06
to your kids, to you addicted to your phone, it's hard to tell a
1:01:09
kid who spent 14 hours on their phone to put it down when they
1:01:12
say but mom uses her stiff teen hours.
1:01:14
Yeah. Are you modeling?
1:01:16
Are you willing to separate? Are you willing to teach?
1:01:18
There's a time for it. There's a timeout for and then
1:01:21
are you constantly renewing your life or you constantly saying I
1:01:24
need to renew my life before the Lord.
1:01:28
I'm constantly trying to grow to become more like him so that
1:01:30
means I'm going to be learning. I'm going to go to my church,
1:01:33
I'm going to go to the my mentor.
1:01:35
I'm going to do this folks in my small group and get help
1:01:38
constantly renewing my life. So that whatever I'm consuming,
1:01:41
I'm getting a Biblical worldview on so I can help pass that down
1:01:44
to my kids. I'm not just waiting for it to
1:01:46
all be over or hoping at some point, they'll move out.
1:01:49
And I have to deal with it anymore.
1:01:50
You want to invest in them and helping them lead the Next
1:01:54
Generation. The Next Generation to become
1:01:55
more like Christ. Yeah, let's get a good jump.
1:02:00
Yeah, I think maybe a good evaluation thing.
1:02:03
I liked what you said about the parents.
1:02:04
I was going to say, you know, parents maybe ask your kids, do
1:02:10
you think I'm on the phone a lot?
1:02:13
You know, that was something that hip a while back, like just
1:02:16
out of nowhere. But I think my oldest daughter
1:02:18
said, well, you know, that we were doing something like so we
1:02:22
what we were doing is it, Family Worship every now and again,
1:02:25
will say, all right, let's play family charade.
1:02:27
What we do is like each person gets a chance to do charades but
1:02:31
they have to act out another family member.
1:02:36
And so, my daughter got up there and then totally silly mode and
1:02:40
said, who am I? And she started walking around
1:02:42
like her phone and everybody was like and then like put it up to
1:02:48
her ear and started doing this number and we were like Daddy
1:02:53
and she's like, nope, Mommy. And my life was like, you felt
1:02:57
so convicted, she felt awful afterwards.
1:02:59
I was like, well honey, I mean maybe we work out something and
1:03:02
then, you know, there's been other times where they've gotten
1:03:05
me that way. But, you know, Dasher kids.
1:03:08
What do they take? And I think another good
1:03:10
evaluation question would be this.
1:03:12
If, the only thing The anyone could know you buy is your
1:03:17
social media wall? What kind of opinion of you
1:03:21
would they come away with what? They see, a gospel-centered life
1:03:25
or they see your rants, or would they see that you're overly
1:03:30
focused on this one thing? I think that the the
1:03:35
conversation today. Jonathan, thank you for the book
1:03:38
and thank you for just the time. You think that's been awesome.
1:03:43
I appreciate you having me. I appreciate what you guys are
1:03:45
doing and I, you know, I've not heard that I'm going to use your
1:03:49
story about your charade game that's priceless.
1:03:53
But in other way for families to learn that, if you don't want to
1:03:56
play, charades is just to sit down and have your kids show you
1:04:00
what they're doing online. I'm just fat.
1:04:03
Time doesn't have to be overly complicated.
1:04:05
Hey, let's just sit down and you show me some of the best time
1:04:07
with my kids have been watching, making videos with my daughter
1:04:10
and playing games. I'd never heard of with my son,
1:04:13
just letting them show me what they do online and that's a
1:04:17
fantastic way to learn and then for me to invest back in them.
1:04:20
But if that doesn't work, try the charades thing.
1:04:22
I think that's really good. That's good.
1:04:26
Well, Jonathan, if you ever get a chance to bring a friend to
1:04:29
NASA, you look me up and I'll I will do that.
1:04:34
The security is kind of high but I will definitely say that list
1:04:39
is a mile long just so you know, but I will slot you in there.
1:04:44
Thanks for coming on today, and thanks for this conversation.
1:04:47
I know it's going to help many, I know that it if you like I
1:04:50
said, if you haven't picked up his book, go and get that you
1:04:53
can find it. Probably at Amazon, but will
1:04:55
link it in the show notes. Yeah, John will link it in that
1:04:59
and so, I want to be a help. And so with that being said,
1:05:02
John The God, not the pastor, be the glory, thanks for listening
1:05:11
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