Latest / The MeatEater Podcast / Ep. 816: New Year's Resolutions, Mutant Turkeys, and Goodbye (Sort Of) Cal | MeatEater Radio Live!

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Ep. 816: New Year's Resolutions, Mutant Turkeys, and Goodbye (Sort Of) Cal | MeatEater Radio Live! · The MeatEater Podcast

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Smell us now, lady, Welcome to Meat Eater Trivia Podcast.
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: Happy New Year's everyone, and welcome to Radio Live. I'm
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: your host, Brody Henderson, and I'm joined by Corey Calkins
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: Ryan Callahan. Today we're not actually live, we're actually pre
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: recording before Meat Eater HQ shuts down for the holidays.
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: But we still got a great New Year's Day show
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: for you guys, even the poor suckers who stayed up
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: late last night and they're nursing a hangover. Hopefully you're
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: not one of those people, but I imagine there's a
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: few of you out there.
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: Is that canna be one of you?
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: Cal Corey m not with kids anymore. Yeah, I'm going
• 0:59
  Speaker 3: to at an eight pm.
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: There you go, There you go, avoid amateur night.
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you get all my fun in uh early. Yeah,
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: and it seems to really wrap up within like a
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: beer and a half. Anyway, that's smart, that's smart.
• 1:16
  Speaker 4: Uh.
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: Today, we're going to talk to our friend Jake Loretzki
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: about all Lovetski.
• 1:22
  Speaker 5: Phil.
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: Jake right next to Phil, and I'm just reading. That's
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: the problem with just reading a script. Sorry, Phil, doctor Phil.
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: Three times.
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: We're going to talk to that Phil guy not our Phil,
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: about all those funny looking, uh color faced turkeys getting
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: shot out there these days. We've also got a very
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: special in house interview with Cow about why and the
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: hell he decided to leave me here to go get
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: a real job. No one really knows. I welcome, and
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: for our crew segments, we're gonna look back on our
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: favorite hunts of the year, and then we're gonna look
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: forward with some New Year's resolutions, you guys. New Year's
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: resolution guys.
• 2:12
  Speaker 6: Semi, I like to think about it, but then it
• 2:15
  Speaker 6: rarely follows.
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna force you into at least saying something to Lastly,
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: since we can't chat with you guys in real time,
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: we're just gonna go over some questions and comments that
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: have come up in emails in previous episodes, so we're
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: still looking out for the fans out there before we
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: get onto all that Happy holidays fellas. I'm looking forward
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: to the break as I'm sure you guys are. I
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: got about one hundred pounds of meat that I need
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: to grind and the burger and sausage, so that's a
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: big project. And Cal and I were just talking, I'm
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: gonna I'm gonna try and get out with the dog
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: for pheasants and maybe get the wife out for a
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: late season cow elk.
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: So yeah, that's like over the whole break kind of goal.
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know the boys want to get after well
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: one of them does, the one already shot a late
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: season do so the other one has to do what
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: his older brother did, so we might try that too.
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: What do you guys got going on?
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, meat management is high on my mind because I
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: really want to go hunt with this muzzleoder.
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: The timing is, no, you've only got two three days
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: left of the season, right.
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: Right, yeah, just just this weekend. But like I would
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: really like to get some ducks in the freezer yep,
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: now that they're finally around.
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah peez.
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And just that dog work is so freaking amazing.
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: I love that. But I am I have I do
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: like in my chest freezer, I do a game bag storage.
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: So like this game bag is a whole parted out
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: and back sealed nice elk shoulder. This one's like the
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: nice cuts and that's what I have left of my
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: elk from last year? Is it just a little bit
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: of front shoulder and some neck meat for slow cooking stuff?
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: And then.
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: The kind of really just the loins, which is kind
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: of crazy and trying to like I I'm gonna be
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: cutting it close, but it would be like a good
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: full freezer turnover situation if I don't kill a deer
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: and you'll.
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: Be starting with fresh after you through this.
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: Pretty darn fresh, yeah, because you got you know, mostly
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: two and a half antelope in there, and that that
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: were this year, and uh and then yeah the turkeys
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: and and pheasants.
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: But that puts some pressure on you too, not having
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: that backup meat from the prior year, you know.
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: I know, I know. And then I think I'll need
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: to commit to grinding some some stuff.
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, how about how about you, Cory?
• 5:15
  Speaker 6: Yeah, grinding between my bowl and a really old white
• 5:18
  Speaker 6: tail buck that I shot this year.
• 5:20
  Speaker 3: I'm going to grind all of him.
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: Up, stinky, old, ruddy tough ass buck.
• 5:24
  Speaker 6: Yeah, very funny color on him, like real pink instead
• 5:28
  Speaker 6: of dark red like I'm used to.
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: Really yeah.
• 5:30
  Speaker 6: Uh, just found out I shot him here close to
• 5:33
  Speaker 6: Bozeman in town, hundreds of other deer around it was
• 5:36
  Speaker 6: worried about c w D had them tested and just
• 5:38
  Speaker 6: found out that it was negative.
• 5:39
  Speaker 3: So I'm excited. I was probably gonna eat him anyway, honestly, But.
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I'm sure we've all eaten it at
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: this point.
• 5:49
  Speaker 6: Yeah, that's the thing, and we're all still sitting here.
• 5:52
  Speaker 6: But yeah, I got a lot of grinding to do.
• 5:53
  Speaker 6: And although your.
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: Face looks funny, is that that's not like CWD.
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: This is tough for Corey because what do we talk
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: about it?
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: Because we've recorded here, because we recorded the live show
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: that aired on the eighteenth, and then in order to
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: prep for the holiday, we filmed the show air airing
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: on Christmas, and the show this show airing on New
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: Year's all in the span of two days, and so
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: every single one of those shows has a conversation about
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: Corey's face.
• 6:19
  Speaker 6: Yeah, and I want to say, it looks better than yesterday,
• 6:21
  Speaker 6: which would have been Christmas episode. So yeah, you'll have
• 6:26
  Speaker 6: to go back if you haven't listened to the Christmas
• 6:28
  Speaker 6: episode and find out what happened to my face.
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: Besides the obvious, you wouldn't tell me I have to
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: watch the show.
• 6:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you're gonna have to. But uh, and then it's
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: Turkey season still to the end of the year.
• 6:37
  Speaker 6: So my boy and I eight year old boy, and
• 6:39
  Speaker 6: I'd like to go out and get a bird weather
• 6:41
  Speaker 6: dependent on how the roads hold up.
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I was pheasant hunting, like I don't know a
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: week or so ago and cut a lone gobbler.
• 6:51
  Speaker 4: Man.
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: I tried to find that thing, but I couldn't.
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah, out roaming around loving the fall.
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: So yeah, and speaking of gobblers at Phil, that was incredible.
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: You're pro. People love you when you host Brett.
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: We're to do our first interview today and our guest
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: is doctor Phil not Jake Lovretzki. He's a hunter, conservationist,
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: and geneticist. We've had him on the show before, so
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: some of you guys may have seen him if you're
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: not familiar. He he's got a really cool duck d
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: M a DNA project going on where he's like figuring
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: out the lineage of different ducks out there, whether they're hybrids, purebreads,
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: whether there's like farm raised duck DNA and those things.
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: And he moved on to doing a similar project called
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: Turkey DNA, which we're going to talk about with him today.
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: We've got got him on the line there. He is,
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: thanks for joining us.
• 7:51
  Speaker 4: Phil.
• 7:52
  Speaker 5: Hey, Phil, the whole world knows he as Jake.
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: Now, yeah, you were just thinking about Yeah, yeah, exactly.
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: How you doing, man, Look thanks?
• 8:05
  Speaker 5: Yeah, Happy holidays, Yeah.
• 8:08
  Speaker 7: Happy holidays, Happy Union. And now it's January.
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: First, yep, yep, exactly. Phil. For folks who aren't familiar
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: with you, just give us a quick breakdown of like
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: your bona fides, and then we'll get into the Turkey
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: DNA project you've got going on.
• 8:23
  Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, So I'm a professor here at the University
• 8:26
  Speaker 4: of Texas at El Paso.
• 8:28
  Speaker 7: I run a wildlife genetics lab.
• 8:30
  Speaker 4: We are geneticists, but we basically do everything else under
• 8:33
  Speaker 4: the sun. We're out there collecting, catching, banding, leading telemetry,
• 8:38
  Speaker 4: unit attaching, working with hunters.
• 8:41
  Speaker 7: Landowners, farmers, and others to.
• 8:43
  Speaker 4: Figure out what's happening with our wildlife and answering the
• 8:47
  Speaker 4: questions that our state and federal agencies partners want to know.
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: Great, that's just.
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: So leading into this Turkey DNA project. I'm not sure
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: if everyone's aware of this. Hopefully they are, but I'm
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: gonna tell him anyway, Like at one time, like all
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: turkeys were wild, there was no such thing as a
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: domestic turkey, and then North America got colonized. They domesticated
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: those turkeys here, brought them back to Europe, then brought
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: them back over here, and so now things are all
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: screwed up.
• 9:24
  Speaker 5: Uh, listen if I got it wrong? Yes, correct?
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: Are you just embarrassed because he did it so?
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: Well?
• 9:36
  Speaker 7: Man? How much did you drink last night?
• 9:38
  Speaker 5: Anyway?
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: I don't drink at all.
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: That's the problem, I think.
• 9:42
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 9:43
  Speaker 7: So sort of the timeline.
• 9:44
  Speaker 4: So turkeys, turkeys are a North American species.
• 9:48
  Speaker 7: They're not They're not European. There's no there's no real turkey.
• 9:51
  Speaker 4: There's no Turkey lineages in Europe, New Zealand anywhere else.
• 9:55
  Speaker 4: They are a North American Messo American group of that
• 10:00
  Speaker 4: evolved here. They were one of the successful domestication events
• 10:04
  Speaker 4: by our ancestors that made it over the land bridge
• 10:08
  Speaker 4: thousands of years.
• 10:09
  Speaker 3: Oh my, gotcha?
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: Okay yeah.
• 10:11
  Speaker 4: So so current ancient DNA work puts the domestication with gouls,
• 10:18
  Speaker 4: potentially with Miriam's potentially two different time points between different
• 10:24
  Speaker 4: tribes that were around at that time, looking at four
• 10:27
  Speaker 4: thousand so years ago.
• 10:29
  Speaker 7: So turkeys were domesticated much.
• 10:32
  Speaker 4: Like cow and dogs and stuff in Europe, but they
• 10:38
  Speaker 4: are specific to North America.
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: So like European colonists didn't come over here, or maybe
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: they did. Did they were they grabbing those those turkeys
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: that had already been domesticated or were they also getting
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: wild turkeysting that.
• 10:59
  Speaker 7: Are we talking about things? Giving? Those would have been
• 11:01
  Speaker 7: wild turkeys.
• 11:02
  Speaker 4: The colonists would have been on the east eating Easterns
• 11:07
  Speaker 4: at that time, right, So did.
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: They And also did they also domesticate, capture and eventually
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: domesticate those birds?
• 11:16
  Speaker 7: Yes, but like hundreds of years later I got you, yeah, yeah.
• 11:21
  Speaker 4: So so really Native Americans were the ones that had
• 11:27
  Speaker 4: what you would consider domestic turkeys at that time.
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 11:32
  Speaker 4: Eventually, many many moons later, they would be brought back
• 11:37
  Speaker 4: to Europe and there are but they're not. So there's
• 11:41
  Speaker 4: farms of turkeys, but wild turkeys as far as we know,
• 11:44
  Speaker 4: have been brought back by the Brits, primarily back to
• 11:48
  Speaker 4: Europe and then everywhere they go.
• 11:50
  Speaker 7: So there's right, So there's turkeys in New Zealand.
• 11:54
  Speaker 4: There were no real there were no turkeys in Hawaii,
• 11:57
  Speaker 4: so people brought them there. So turkey have been expanded
• 12:01
  Speaker 4: that way, but naturally occurring only in North America. Origination
• 12:06
  Speaker 4: of domestic only in North America and mess America.
• 12:09
  Speaker 5: Okay, before we get into the next stuff.
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, real quick, north like as is now North American
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: wild turkeys laid on me the five subspecies and roughly
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: where they live without you getting into how they've been
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: spread around like their original kind of range.
• 12:28
  Speaker 4: So if we'll go east to west, right, so east
• 12:32
  Speaker 4: of the Mississippi River where you had naturally occurring boreal forests,
• 12:37
  Speaker 4: that would have been your eastern turkey.
• 12:39
  Speaker 7: Once you get into the Florida.
• 12:40
  Speaker 4: Panhan or pama, yeah, Florida side, that would be Osceola.
• 12:44
  Speaker 4: What we're trying to figure out is how different osciolas
• 12:47
  Speaker 4: are from eastern.
• 12:48
  Speaker 7: Right now, so there's the there's those two.
• 12:51
  Speaker 4: As you go, as you go west, so west of
• 12:53
  Speaker 4: the Mississippi, you start getting into what would originally be rios, right,
• 12:59
  Speaker 4: so that would be Oklahoma, Texas, Nebraska, that area.
• 13:04
  Speaker 7: Then once you get into more mountainous regions.
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: Before you before you move on to the next one,
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: rio's typically or originally were like river bottom turkeys that
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: lived in more open country, correct, yeah, okay.
• 13:19
  Speaker 4: Right, yeah, so then you're essentially changing habitats from low
• 13:25
  Speaker 4: elevation to higher elevation, and that's when you get to Miriams.
• 13:30
  Speaker 7: Right, So.
• 13:32
  Speaker 4: Where I go in New Mexico, that would be all
• 13:36
  Speaker 4: the sky islands there right, the heel of the Sacramento Mountains,
• 13:40
  Speaker 4: those would be all natural miriam habitat right.
• 13:46
  Speaker 5: A little into Colorado too, correct.
• 13:48
  Speaker 7: That's right. Yeah, and then south of that right would
• 13:52
  Speaker 7: be Gouls.
• 13:53
  Speaker 4: So almost not almost all of the range in Mexico
• 13:58
  Speaker 4: would be where gouls turkey would have would have been.
• 14:01
  Speaker 4: And that's why all the studies have suggested that they're
• 14:05
  Speaker 4: the source.
• 14:06
  Speaker 7: For the original domestication than Miriams. So that's what you got.
• 14:11
  Speaker 7: Oh and then oscillated turkeys.
• 14:13
  Speaker 4: Were right now, talk about that.
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: That's a whole different.
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: But I feel like that is considering the advancement of civilization,
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: like that's where the domestication had to have started, right,
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: like sweet potatoes and yeah, exactly.
• 14:31
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's it's still being so for sure,
• 14:37
  Speaker 4: like some potentially we just don't have the the fossil
• 14:42
  Speaker 4: records and the ancient DNA to go along with it.
• 14:45
  Speaker 4: But I'm sure some civilizations did go after the oscillated turkey,
• 14:50
  Speaker 4: but for one reason or another. What we do have
• 14:52
  Speaker 4: good data for is that goulds were goulds and Miriams
• 14:56
  Speaker 4: in a mix of them were part were used for
• 15:00
  Speaker 4: that the earliest domestications as far as we know here
• 15:03
  Speaker 4: in the Southwest.
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it just became like the cool kid trend. Yeah,
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: those guys around.
• 15:11
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and they're bigger than oscillated.
• 15:14
  Speaker 7: They're you know, maybe more delicious. I don't know.
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, So we're getting into these like different
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: color phases and weird pattern color patterns that show up,
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: which is I'm sure a large part of of what
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: you're working on here, Like what's causing that? And correct
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: me if I'm wrong, But like, we've got a few
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: different things going on here.
• 15:40
  Speaker 5: We got completely wild.
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: Turkeys that have some type of genetic mutation like albinism
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: or melanism. Is that that's that's one.
• 15:52
  Speaker 5: That's one cause.
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: Then we've got breeding between wild turkey subspecies because these
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: birds have been moved around a lot. We've got overlapping
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: naturally overlapping range, and we've got like man made overlapping range.
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: For example here in northwestern Montana, you've got Mariam's and
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: Easterns and hybrids like kind of all living in the
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: same zone. And then the third thing is you've got
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: these like quote wild turkeys that are actually the product
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: of some domestic ancestry.
• 16:30
  Speaker 5: Like it could be a.
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: Like a like a wild hen that rolls in behind
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: the barn and hooks up with a domestic tom or
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: a domestic turkey of either sex that maybe goes rogue
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: and joins a flock of wild birds. Are those the
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: three like main things we're looking at here?
• 16:54
  Speaker 7: Those? Yes, you know we're trying to now.
• 16:58
  Speaker 4: Originally this study was about just asking the question of
• 17:03
  Speaker 4: wild turkey.
• 17:03
  Speaker 7: DNA was born out of the question is this a
• 17:06
  Speaker 7: wild turkey?
• 17:08
  Speaker 4: Is every white, smoke faced, red black turkey a wild
• 17:13
  Speaker 4: turkey that some weird mutation? Is it because of the
• 17:17
  Speaker 4: hybridization between wild and wild? Is it because of wild
• 17:21
  Speaker 4: heritage or wild domestic uh inter breeding, or is it
• 17:25
  Speaker 4: just a bunch of like domestic feral birds that are
• 17:29
  Speaker 4: on the landscape and people are shooting them.
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: I can usually tell because it's a lazy turkey hunter
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: or somebody who can't call very good that's obviously got
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: some dematistick. DNA AM because you can you shouldn't be
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: able to get a.
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: Legit this year exactly.
• 17:51
  Speaker 4: Yeah, Yeah, I didn't want I wanted to interrupt.
• 17:55
  Speaker 7: So there is a caveat to domestic and heritage.
• 17:58
  Speaker 4: So domestic a white turkey that you go to Costco
• 18:02
  Speaker 4: and buy, right, So this is a nuance within the
• 18:05
  Speaker 4: turkey world.
• 18:06
  Speaker 7: That I only recently learned.
• 18:08
  Speaker 4: Heritage is essentially people taking a domestic bird, breeding it
• 18:13
  Speaker 4: with a wild creating some thing, and then creating calling
• 18:18
  Speaker 4: it some heritage. Think of it, like, I guess back
• 18:24
  Speaker 4: to ducks, and there's a bunch of different duck breeds
• 18:26
  Speaker 4: that people have done that with dog breeds, right, So
• 18:29
  Speaker 4: it's it's mixing dog pools, especially when people do dog
• 18:32
  Speaker 4: wolf and then create some weird looking thing and then
• 18:34
  Speaker 4: breed that a.
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: Bunchto Yeah, yeah, same old story.
• 18:43
  Speaker 7: That's that. So that that's the caveat.
• 18:45
  Speaker 4: So we are looking at like is it a bunch
• 18:48
  Speaker 4: of heritage breeds, is it a bunch of domestic breeds?
• 18:51
  Speaker 7: What's occurring? What happens?
• 18:53
  Speaker 5: Yeah, it's cool.
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: And as far as like the domestic birds go, Like
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: I spent some time around those things. We raised a
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: few every year when I was a kid, and they're
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: stupid and they're like not very athletic. So it's like
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: like looking at back at those birds. It's like really
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: hard for me to imagine one of those things just
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: being like, you know what, I'm going with those guys,
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: and I'm gonna live in the woods with them, and
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: like that they survive long enough to like pass on
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: their jeans, like I know, like domestic pigs can go
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: fair like pretty rapidly. But it's like, it's like, how
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: adaptable are domestic turkeys to surviving in the wild.
• 19:41
  Speaker 4: Well, that's a great We don't know, and I wouldn't
• 19:43
  Speaker 4: have guessed it, but I will give you.
• 19:45
  Speaker 7: Two caveats to that.
• 19:46
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 19:47
  Speaker 4: One, remember what I said, heritage breeds are technically wild domestic, right,
• 19:54
  Speaker 4: so maybe that gives them a bit a bit up
• 19:57
  Speaker 4: and coming that they're like, ooh, there's something in some
• 20:00
  Speaker 4: of them being like I want.
• 20:02
  Speaker 7: To be wild a little bit.
• 20:05
  Speaker 4: The other thing that's happening on the landscape, unfortunately, is
• 20:10
  Speaker 4: that there are tales of people now creating breeds, like
• 20:16
  Speaker 4: there's an Eastern heritage that looks like an Eastern.
• 20:20
  Speaker 7: But it's not a wild bird.
• 20:23
  Speaker 4: And people are and I've I've heard through the grapevine
• 20:26
  Speaker 4: people are breeding things that look like Osceola's and other
• 20:29
  Speaker 4: things and putting those on the landscape during right before
• 20:34
  Speaker 4: hunting season.
• 20:36
  Speaker 7: For everybody can envision that picture.
• 20:39
  Speaker 4: So now you got birds in the spring, So now
• 20:42
  Speaker 4: they only have to really survive for for.
• 20:43
  Speaker 7: Not very long to have that meeting experience. Yeah.
• 20:51
  Speaker 4: So unfortunately people are doing what people do, and and
• 20:56
  Speaker 4: you know, once there's a dollar to be made, they'll
• 21:00
  Speaker 4: do all sorts of things.
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: This might be too big of a question, you might
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: not be able to really get at it. But based
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: on the evidence that you're seeing, the DNA evidence, what
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: seems to be more common when one of these weird
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: color faced birds show up? Or is it like truly
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: wild birds or is it more birds showing up with
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: some barnyard heritage.
• 21:29
  Speaker 7: It's a mix of both.
• 21:30
  Speaker 4: So there's so In fact, I had an email exchange
• 21:35
  Speaker 4: with Mike Chamberlain today where I sent him the most
• 21:39
  Speaker 4: recent results and he's like, there's still a bunch of
• 21:42
  Speaker 4: white birds that you're calling pure wild, and then there's
• 21:46
  Speaker 4: a bunch of there's plenty of whitebirds and smoke faced
• 21:50
  Speaker 4: birds that are completely heritage, and then there's you know,
• 21:52
  Speaker 4: stuff in the in between.
• 21:54
  Speaker 7: The answer to that is, I don't know.
• 21:57
  Speaker 4: Yeah, we went went into this thing, thinking like, ah,
• 22:00
  Speaker 4: this shouldn't be that hard. But turkeys are incredibly much
• 22:04
  Speaker 4: more complicated than ducks and waterfowl more generally, and probably
• 22:09
  Speaker 4: most wildlife for a variety of reasons. Their genetics is
• 22:14
  Speaker 4: incredibly complex, and that is muddying the water even further.
• 22:20
  Speaker 4: So we are trying to build up the data sets
• 22:24
  Speaker 4: big enough where we could be more certain about like
• 22:26
  Speaker 4: what are we looking at? Are we really looking at
• 22:29
  Speaker 4: a wild bird that's not white? And if so, why
• 22:32
  Speaker 4: is that? Yeah, one of the things that we're trying
• 22:34
  Speaker 4: to do is I've got a new student that has
• 22:38
  Speaker 4: identified most of the genes responsible for plumage, and so
• 22:44
  Speaker 4: what we're gonna layer on is the genotypes of those
• 22:49
  Speaker 4: specific genes, and what we're fight super preliminary, but there
• 22:54
  Speaker 4: are at least two ways for a bird to be white.
• 22:58
  Speaker 4: There are these two genes that if you knock them out,
• 23:01
  Speaker 4: you have a white bird. If you partially knock them out,
• 23:04
  Speaker 4: you'll have white barring.
• 23:06
  Speaker 7: Right.
• 23:06
  Speaker 4: So now we're trying to figure out how often or
• 23:10
  Speaker 4: how frequent is that are those found in wild populations,
• 23:15
  Speaker 4: how frequent are those introduced from heritage or domestic birds,
• 23:20
  Speaker 4: and how quickly does that disappear from the population, Right,
• 23:24
  Speaker 4: you shoot a weird looking bird, what is the probability
• 23:28
  Speaker 4: that that's a a wild bird and be how much
• 23:31
  Speaker 4: of a unicorn is that?
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah? I imagine too. I mean there's a lot of
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: states now, Nebraska, Montana, you know, I'm sure you could
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: name Washington, where.
• 23:48
  Speaker 7: Like California, Utah, Idaho.
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Like we're like, you could go out in Nebraska
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: and potentially in the same area run into Merriam's rios
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: and Easterns, like like all within spitting distance of one another,
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: or at least.
• 24:09
  Speaker 7: Things that look like that.
• 24:10
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 24:11
  Speaker 4: One of the things that we're sort of gauging now,
• 24:15
  Speaker 4: places like California, Washington, Idaho, Montana, Like you talked about
• 24:19
  Speaker 4: Oregon where agencies at the time, we're like, you know what,
• 24:24
  Speaker 4: we're not gonna We're not we don't know what's gonna take.
• 24:26
  Speaker 4: So we're just gonna put all the subspecies into there. Right,
• 24:29
  Speaker 4: So what do we have left? Are there any actual
• 24:35
  Speaker 4: populations representing true rios, Miriam's or students or do we
• 24:40
  Speaker 4: just have what potentially what we're gonna coin as the
• 24:43
  Speaker 4: American Turkey?
• 24:44
  Speaker 5: Yeah?
• 24:45
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, so we're we're wild Turkey DNA is expanding
• 24:49
  Speaker 4: substantially this year, so we're not Initially it was all
• 24:52
  Speaker 4: about weird looking birds. Now we're trying to get geography right.
• 24:57
  Speaker 4: So if you are getting your gobble on this spring
• 25:01
  Speaker 4: or thinking about it, we're gonna have while Turkey DNA
• 25:04
  Speaker 4: is gonna start doing a draw much like duck DNA
• 25:07
  Speaker 4: has been doing for the last few years.
• 25:09
  Speaker 7: Where if you get drawn, you get a kit.
• 25:12
  Speaker 4: You have some vials in there, instructions, and if you
• 25:15
  Speaker 4: shoot a bird, you can cut off that tip of
• 25:19
  Speaker 4: the tongue, put it into there, ship it back to us.
• 25:22
  Speaker 7: We're gonna do our thing.
• 25:23
  Speaker 4: You'll get a certificate for that bird, and then we're
• 25:26
  Speaker 4: gonna start compiling data sets hopefully to answer many of
• 25:30
  Speaker 4: these questions.
• 25:31
  Speaker 5: You could eat that whole project. You could really bum.
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: Out some turkey hunters that are like their goal is
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: to get each subspecies and then they find out they're like,
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: oh man, I was actually.
• 25:43
  Speaker 7: I was actually thinking the same thing. You know, turkey slam.
• 25:46
  Speaker 4: The only way to get through turkey Slam is it
• 25:48
  Speaker 4: you actually got genetically vetted rules otherwise got the mutt
• 25:54
  Speaker 4: slam exactly.
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, I can't wait to go to National Wild
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: Turkey Federation Convention, be like, are they peer reviewed? It's
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: really really Phil, you want.
• 26:08
  Speaker 5: To pictures up?
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: Uh? I was talking Phil the engineer. Now I'm talking
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: for doctor Phil. What what are the most like common
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: and easily identified color phases that a turkey hunter is
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: like likely to shoot or might shoot?
• 26:27
  Speaker 7: You know what?
• 26:28
  Speaker 4: When I was thinking of this question, I phoned I
• 26:30
  Speaker 4: phoned a friend Mike ch Uh Katie with with our
• 26:35
  Speaker 4: wild turkey DNA and trying to figure that out because
• 26:38
  Speaker 4: I'm only now looking at turkeys. Right, You've got a
• 26:41
  Speaker 4: duck guy expanding into the edible domain here, So I'm
• 26:48
  Speaker 4: only I didn't know that this was even happening in
• 26:50
  Speaker 4: turkeys until a year ago. So some of the most
• 26:53
  Speaker 4: common would be what you're looking here, that reddish, that
• 26:56
  Speaker 4: red phase.
• 26:58
  Speaker 7: There's a bunch of Oh, this is.
• 27:01
  Speaker 4: Something I wanted to I wanted to say, so just
• 27:03
  Speaker 4: like a black lab can actually make all phases of lab. Right,
• 27:07
  Speaker 4: so you can have yellows and uh, you can you
• 27:11
  Speaker 4: can have chocolate and black come out of.
• 27:13
  Speaker 7: A black lab.
• 27:15
  Speaker 4: All heritage breeds, some proportion of them also can make
• 27:20
  Speaker 4: white turkeys, right, we all have it and so people
• 27:24
  Speaker 4: are just maintaining these different color forms by that selective breeding. Anyways,
• 27:29
  Speaker 4: I just wanted to put that out there itself. Could
• 27:33
  Speaker 4: be why we're seeing more and more white turkeys up Again,
• 27:37
  Speaker 4: we'll be able to source because the mutations that occurred
• 27:40
  Speaker 4: in the heritage and domestics to result in white type
• 27:46
  Speaker 4: is what it looks like quite different than what we
• 27:48
  Speaker 4: see in wild populations, just naturally occurring.
• 27:52
  Speaker 7: So we'll hopefully be able to actually track that. But
• 27:55
  Speaker 7: right there, what you see.
• 27:56
  Speaker 4: Right there, so that white and black barring that interchange, right,
• 28:01
  Speaker 4: I think that breed is supposed to be known as
• 28:03
  Speaker 4: like an air gasin.
• 28:05
  Speaker 7: We see that quite often. And that's what I told
• 28:08
  Speaker 7: you there.
• 28:08
  Speaker 4: If there's two genes, one Jean says barring, the other
• 28:12
  Speaker 4: one is a melanin production gym that' said turn on
• 28:16
  Speaker 4: or off, So that's how you get barring. Where you
• 28:19
  Speaker 4: get on off, on off plus barring. So that's what
• 28:22
  Speaker 4: you're seeing in that turkey right there.
• 28:24
  Speaker 5: So can you go back to that last one you
• 28:25
  Speaker 5: had up?
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: Sure, maybe that so that that there's a red one
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: I'm guessing.
• 28:35
  Speaker 4: Yeah, So that would be what is known as like
• 28:37
  Speaker 4: a color phase. Red Uh, there's there's there's turkeys. If
• 28:41
  Speaker 4: you look them up, they're called barnyard reds.
• 28:43
  Speaker 7: People have made all sorts of stuff. But yeah, that
• 28:46
  Speaker 7: would be one of the things.
• 28:47
  Speaker 4: The other, more more readily observed are called smoke phase.
• 28:54
  Speaker 4: I don't know, if you've got a pick.
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: We've got a gray one off there film.
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: I can at it really quick. It'll just be a second.
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, just throw it up there when you get
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: to it. So those are kind of the big, big ones, Phil,
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: What but you got Like I've seen some of the
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: stuff you guys have posted on Instagram. Some of that
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: stuff is like very subtle, Like I don't like, if
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: you're just out hunting and not paying attention, like you
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: might not even notice it.
• 29:24
  Speaker 4: Absolutely, yeah, no, I mean it takes Mike Chamberlain, who
• 29:29
  Speaker 4: you know, looks at these things every single day, be like, oh,
• 29:33
  Speaker 4: that one feather is not right.
• 29:35
  Speaker 7: You're right.
• 29:36
  Speaker 4: Most of us, including myself, would be like sweet, I
• 29:39
  Speaker 4: got a turkey. Yeah, but yeah no, as we're learning
• 29:43
  Speaker 4: more of what we're hoping to do also is to
• 29:46
  Speaker 4: create some field guides where we start showcasing so people
• 29:49
  Speaker 4: can actually start learning about it as we learn it
• 29:53
  Speaker 4: and we figured this stuff out and get this in
• 29:54
  Speaker 4: the hands of both agency and private individuals out there
• 29:57
  Speaker 4: so we can better potentially monitor of these populations. One
• 30:01
  Speaker 4: of the things that one of the things that we're
• 30:04
  Speaker 4: worried about through these introductions of heritage or domestic birds
• 30:10
  Speaker 4: on the landscape is that what we're finding in heritage
• 30:14
  Speaker 4: and domestic when we have reference set is that they're
• 30:16
  Speaker 4: incredibly inbred. Every single one looks like a brother, sister,
• 30:21
  Speaker 4: right full siblings. And then what's happening on the landscape
• 30:26
  Speaker 4: is our natural populations through fragmented habitat, fragmentation, translocations, all
• 30:32
  Speaker 4: of these other things also.
• 30:34
  Speaker 7: Are not are are highly are more inbred.
• 30:39
  Speaker 4: Than other wild populations I study, including mammals and other birds.
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: Is there some concern that that could be? I mean,
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: it's probably more habitat driven, and I'm sure Mike Chamberlain
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: could weigh in here, but is there some concern that
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: that could also be at least a minor driver. And
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: where you're seeing turkey population decline under.
• 31:03
  Speaker 4: So as you up that ingreeding coefficient, what we know
• 31:07
  Speaker 4: from every other animal puma or.
• 31:11
  Speaker 7: Florida panthers are a great example of it.
• 31:13
  Speaker 4: You lose that connectivity to other populations. More and more
• 31:18
  Speaker 4: of them breed amongst brothers and sisters, you increase that inbreeding.
• 31:22
  Speaker 4: What's happening is that even if you had all the
• 31:24
  Speaker 4: habitat in the world, the individuals that you have now
• 31:28
  Speaker 4: are making eggs that are either in viable or individuals
• 31:34
  Speaker 4: that have lower survival because they're inbreeding so hot.
• 31:38
  Speaker 7: So turkeys also don't like.
• 31:41
  Speaker 4: To cross the road, apparently like right or ducks will
• 31:44
  Speaker 4: fly across the road, but turkeys don't. So as you
• 31:47
  Speaker 4: get more and more of that fragmentation bigger issue in
• 31:50
  Speaker 4: the East than in the West, you you basically force
• 31:54
  Speaker 4: the population to become more and more bread inbred. And
• 31:58
  Speaker 4: as you put so, let's say you're you're.
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: Creating artificial island.
• 32:04
  Speaker 4: And then if you throw a bunch of highly inbred
• 32:08
  Speaker 4: heritage birds into there, what we show genetically is that
• 32:12
  Speaker 4: if you breed those two birds together, instead of decreasing inbreeding,
• 32:18
  Speaker 4: you actually artificially jump.
• 32:20
  Speaker 7: The inbreeding between the birds.
• 32:23
  Speaker 4: So a ness that should have been outbred, meaning you know,
• 32:27
  Speaker 4: good to go, you artificially already spike it up. And
• 32:31
  Speaker 4: turkeys aren't the only ones we're seeing the same pattern.
• 32:33
  Speaker 4: We're seeing it in our ducks. When when game fire
• 32:36
  Speaker 4: mallards and wild mallards, inner bread, inner breed, you should
• 32:39
  Speaker 4: have an inbreeding coefficient of zero, but it jumps to
• 32:42
  Speaker 4: point two within the clutch. So you're artificially inbreeding your
• 32:46
  Speaker 4: own population through those.
• 32:47
  Speaker 5: Actions, which no good.
• 32:50
  Speaker 4: Yeah, a cyclical effects, especially for turkeys that have a
• 32:53
  Speaker 4: hard time with habitat connected and population connectivity.
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: Would you mind, because he has just got some good
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: ink on the genetic depth in the eastern mallards, would
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: you mind just hitting that real quick, like an update
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: for everybody on on Yeah, the percentage of domestic DNA
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: within your and I'll buzz kill.
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: This was the map that got posted. Did you see
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: the map? Yeah?
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah within your quote wild population.
• 33:31
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 33:31
  Speaker 4: So so basically, uh yeah, basically I need an hour
• 33:37
  Speaker 4: to talk right now. But so what we're doing right
• 33:40
  Speaker 4: so duck DNA was what we started with in the
• 33:45
  Speaker 4: wildlife world, being like, all right, does citizen science at
• 33:48
  Speaker 4: this level with Hunter's work? And the answer is overwhelmingly yes.
• 33:53
  Speaker 4: We're in our third year. We've doubled the participation, doubled.
• 33:58
  Speaker 7: The number of samples every year.
• 34:00
  Speaker 4: Thankful, thankful, to all the donors that provided the funding
• 34:04
  Speaker 4: necessary for that, and essentially we're over almost three thousand
• 34:09
  Speaker 4: samples collected in three years. And one of those one
• 34:13
  Speaker 4: of the aims of that study is to monitor the
• 34:15
  Speaker 4: popula mallard populations across North across the US for now.
• 34:19
  Speaker 4: We're about to get Canada into the mix, but across
• 34:23
  Speaker 4: North across the US for now, and what we've seen,
• 34:26
  Speaker 4: what we've tracked is that the eastern population is not
• 34:29
  Speaker 4: doing great and it continues to get worse and worse.
• 34:32
  Speaker 4: And so during the fall flight, when you've got an
• 34:35
  Speaker 4: influx of birds out of Canada, which are mostly wild,
• 34:40
  Speaker 4: you have seventy five percent of harvested birds from duck DNA,
• 34:44
  Speaker 4: and we have got other data that support this even
• 34:48
  Speaker 4: more in the Atlantic Flyway are feral or feral hybrids.
• 34:53
  Speaker 4: And when we look at summer birds, so my other
• 34:56
  Speaker 4: work working with the state agencies, that proportion actually to
• 35:00
  Speaker 4: like one hundred percent or even less than two percent
• 35:04
  Speaker 4: for most of the states, and so seventy five percent there,
• 35:09
  Speaker 4: we jump down to about forty percent on average in
• 35:12
  Speaker 4: the Mississippi huge amount in game of game far mallard
• 35:17
  Speaker 4: ancestry in the Great Lakes region less, So if you
• 35:20
  Speaker 4: go south of Tennessee, there's this interesting population dynamic going
• 35:24
  Speaker 4: on there. You jump to the Central Flyway and essentially
• 35:27
  Speaker 4: disappears less than ten percent. You jump over to the
• 35:30
  Speaker 4: Pacific Flyway and it jumps back up, unfortunately to twenty percent,
• 35:35
  Speaker 4: mostly driven by whatever's happening in California.
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 35:41
  Speaker 4: Yeah, So we're tracking this thing, and unfortunately for the
• 35:45
  Speaker 4: for the wild mallard, it continues to be quite the problem.
• 35:49
  Speaker 4: We're hoping we're starting to try to figure out some solutions,
• 35:53
  Speaker 4: but obviously everybody always asks, like, so they're interbreeding, is
• 35:57
  Speaker 4: there any sort of actual biologne logical problem with that?
• 36:01
  Speaker 4: And in the next year we'll be we'll be putting
• 36:04
  Speaker 4: out papers showcasing that not only does it change their
• 36:09
  Speaker 4: migratory capacity, their feeding behavior, their ability to nest, but
• 36:14
  Speaker 4: in fact we showcase that their brains have actually been
• 36:19
  Speaker 4: changed to not to be more domestic like than they
• 36:26
  Speaker 4: are wild type when you interbreed, and all of these
• 36:29
  Speaker 4: traits have a correlation with genetics.
• 36:32
  Speaker 7: So the more game farm you have, the more game
• 36:34
  Speaker 7: farming you look.
• 36:34
  Speaker 4: Like the problem with the Atlantic Flyway that we're starting
• 36:38
  Speaker 4: to see or at least now we can analyze is
• 36:42
  Speaker 4: that we randomly now get a game farm mallard phenotype
• 36:49
  Speaker 4: and behavior by just by chance. There's so many hybrids
• 36:53
  Speaker 4: that some proportion of nests just by chance recapitulate game.
• 36:57
  Speaker 7: Farm all of a sudden, which is just not great.
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: No. I mean, that's why all those fellows who you
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: know can't blow a duck call they're posting all those
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: pictures of limits.
• 37:10
  Speaker 7: Yeah that's right.
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and there's like we're not getting what. You know,
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: me as a big duck eater would call like the
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: benefits of having some domestic strain in there, like yeah.
• 37:23
  Speaker 4: And I will tell you so people would be like,
• 37:25
  Speaker 4: oh no, yeah, whatever, duck's a duck.
• 37:28
  Speaker 7: I'll eat that. Fun fact. They don't put on.
• 37:31
  Speaker 4: Fat, oh, superary fat content the way a wild type.
• 37:36
  Speaker 7: That's why they can't. They can't. We've published this now
• 37:40
  Speaker 7: and we were like, why can't they move?
• 37:44
  Speaker 4: Maybe they don't know how, maybe there's some weird thing happening.
• 37:47
  Speaker 4: But one of the physiological differences is that even if
• 37:50
  Speaker 4: we put them on the high fat you're in a child,
• 37:52
  Speaker 4: they will not put fat. Oh.
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: I feel like if we were in like the doctor
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: who uh uh, you know, like bomb shelter the def
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: con level. For me, it would have just just rest.
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, my god, there's a real issue here.
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: Like fatty ducks are like the most prized possession in
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: my freezer.
• 38:18
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and if you don't have a fat duck when
• 38:21
  Speaker 4: that polar vortex happens, that duck doesn't make it. And
• 38:25
  Speaker 4: the more of your population proportionally grows with those types
• 38:29
  Speaker 4: of traits, the lower the survival and the fecundity or
• 38:33
  Speaker 4: baby making we expect. And that is what we're seeing
• 38:36
  Speaker 4: in the Great Lakes, we're seeing in the Atlantic.
• 38:39
  Speaker 7: Flowery, So what I have to caveat all of this?
• 38:41
  Speaker 4: It's all suggestive, it's it's at least explaining some of
• 38:47
  Speaker 4: the population declines, right, we don't Habitat is definitely everything.
• 38:53
  Speaker 4: But even like just like the turkey, you need you
• 38:56
  Speaker 4: need an animal that knows how to use that habitat.
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, we gotta keep moving here.
• 39:03
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: The human responsibility thing here is really like once again
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: a fact.
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: How how can folks take part in the turkey and
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: or duck DNA projects?
• 39:18
  Speaker 7: Yeah?
• 39:18
  Speaker 4: Yeah, please if you're interested, Oh, if you're still duck hunting,
• 39:23
  Speaker 4: like how and you shoot something super awesomely cool or
• 39:27
  Speaker 4: you're like, I don't know what this is both.
• 39:29
  Speaker 7: Duck and Goose.
• 39:31
  Speaker 4: Go to www dot Duck dna dot com and sign
• 39:35
  Speaker 4: up for the hybrid kit. If you get chosen, we'll
• 39:39
  Speaker 4: send you a single vile kit. You send it back
• 39:42
  Speaker 4: to us, We do the analysis. You get some answers.
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: Do we get a little favoritism there? Like can you
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: send us a bunch of those?
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: Come on, I think Karan got a bunch of them.
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll talk to Karin.
• 40:00
  Speaker 7: Yeah, but we can definitely send you some.
• 40:02
  Speaker 4: That being said, on the turkey, go to wild Turkey
• 40:05
  Speaker 4: DNA dot com start signing up.
• 40:08
  Speaker 7: We're going to.
• 40:09
  Speaker 4: Have those polls right before turkey season. That being said,
• 40:13
  Speaker 4: if you do shoot a turkey during if you have
• 40:16
  Speaker 4: a fall hunting season like you guys do for a
• 40:19
  Speaker 4: few more days and Idaho and others, and you shoot something,
• 40:23
  Speaker 4: give us a ring or an email through the website
• 40:28
  Speaker 4: or get in touch at Wild Turkey DNA on Instagram
• 40:32
  Speaker 4: or at Duck d Duck DNA The Duck DNA on
• 40:35
  Speaker 4: Instagram or at Loretzky Lab on Instagram, and we'll take
• 40:39
  Speaker 4: care of you.
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: I got one more question about that, especially for the
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: people who might end up with one of these kits.
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: It doesn't have to be some weird looking bird, correct now,
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: like anything like it could look like a like just
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: pure white tail fan mirriams and you still want to
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: start out.
• 40:59
  Speaker 4: So for Turkey this year, we're looking for geography. We're
• 41:03
  Speaker 4: also part of the selection criteria is where do you hunt?
• 41:08
  Speaker 7: How many birds do you usually harvest? Those are going
• 41:11
  Speaker 7: to be some of the information that we're going to
• 41:13
  Speaker 7: want to know.
• 41:14
  Speaker 4: If you are a person that has access to you know,
• 41:17
  Speaker 4: three tags, will send you three files. If you're someone
• 41:21
  Speaker 4: that shoots one bird, will send you one file. So
• 41:23
  Speaker 4: we're gonna gauge, gauge that so that way we can
• 41:26
  Speaker 4: get as many hunters involved and as much of the
• 41:29
  Speaker 4: geography uh captured as we can.
• 41:32
  Speaker 7: This year for sure great and.
• 41:34
  Speaker 4: This year for sure if you're like my kids shot
• 41:37
  Speaker 4: a bird, send that thing in cool.
• 41:39
  Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, it'd be super awesome.
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: Thanks for joining us, Phil, It's always a fascinating conversation.
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: And on a side note, I'm looking forward to heading
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: down to Texas. Cory. You're going to Yep for a collaboration.
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: Mediator has going on with you involving our dad, which
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: the audience, and so I'm sure we'll be hearing more
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: about later.
• 42:02
  Speaker 5: So we're looking forward to that.
• 42:03
  Speaker 7: We were just doing birds now.
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: Nope, nope, we're doing doing our dad too. But thanks
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: a lot, Happy holidays and thanks for coming on.
• 42:12
  Speaker 7: Yeah, thanks everybody, very cool.
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: Happy New Year, Phil.
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, folks, that's it for today's show.
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: I mean, come on, that's great citizen science.
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: That was good. You might have to trim some of
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: these listener questions, but that was a good school. We
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: can do that, Phil, we can skip them, maybe just
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: do one each.
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: Or well, it's like it's it's part of like what
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: hunters bring to the table for the greater good.
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And when you get a chance to talk to
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: someone like that, it's just like I got another question,
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: I got another question, Like you don't get a chance
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: to talk to people like that very often.
• 42:49
  Speaker 6: Yeah, some of the other critters that he'd love to
• 42:51
  Speaker 6: dive into with other DNA, you know, he's got Duck
• 42:54
  Speaker 6: and Turkey going, there's other Yeah, things he's got in
• 42:57
  Speaker 6: his head that he wants.
• 42:57
  Speaker 3: To pull off here for so hopefully there's more to come.
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: Do we gotta throwback Thursday song filler.
• 43:03
  Speaker 5: Did you just abandon all the all that?
• 43:05
  Speaker 7: No?
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: I still still do the drop?
• 43:06
  Speaker 3: Isn't that your favorite one?
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: Us to do the drop? This is my favorite one.
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: Stephen Rody take me back to nineteen seventy four back.
• 43:19
  Speaker 5: I can't believe it. Did I mentioned Stephen.
• 43:23
  Speaker 7: Brody our old as.
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: I need you to fill out the whole song. I
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: want to all the lead one.
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that'll be my my winter break project.
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: Sure, all right, guys, it's time to look back at
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: the last year and share your favorite I think it's
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: I'm doing hunting, could be fishing, but I don't know
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: what you guys are doing. Share your favorite trips of
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: the year. So Cory, you're up first man.
• 43:49
  Speaker 6: Yeah, well gosh, it was hard to top my spring
• 43:52
  Speaker 6: black bear hunt. I think I got a video up
• 43:56
  Speaker 6: there and a couple photos, but uh, hunting us. The
• 44:00
  Speaker 6: best part about it was I've been hunting the spot
• 44:02
  Speaker 6: for about five years without being able to take aim
• 44:06
  Speaker 6: and shoot at a black bear, and finally it all
• 44:08
  Speaker 6: came together this last spring early May solo hunting overnight,
• 44:14
  Speaker 6: backpacked into a spot Bruiser spotted him the night before,
• 44:18
  Speaker 6: put a stock on him.
• 44:19
  Speaker 3: He eluded me.
• 44:20
  Speaker 6: He zigged and I zagged, and then was able to
• 44:24
  Speaker 6: dig him up. The next morning stalked him. I spotted
• 44:27
  Speaker 6: him at probably a mile and a half away, and
• 44:28
  Speaker 6: then stalked into ninety yards and shot him on the
• 44:30
  Speaker 6: run with a three hundred wind mag which rarely happens.
• 44:34
  Speaker 6: I feel like spotting stock bears. You see him far
• 44:37
  Speaker 6: off and you're.
• 44:38
  Speaker 5: Like, oh, yeah, it looks like he's headed that way.
• 44:40
  Speaker 6: You know, they usually go a different direction or something,
• 44:42
  Speaker 6: the odds of like lining up the planets to get
• 44:44
  Speaker 6: him within range or so slim. It's so tough, but
• 44:47
  Speaker 6: so addicting too, And I got lucky with this one.
• 44:49
  Speaker 6: I couldn't tell he was that big from that far away,
• 44:52
  Speaker 6: but holy cow, it'll be probably the biggest bear I ever.
• 44:54
  Speaker 3: Kill in the state of Montana at least.
• 44:57
  Speaker 6: And fun note, I just got the hide back from
• 45:01
  Speaker 6: mister John Hayes, and he told me that was the
• 45:03
  Speaker 6: biggest Montana black bear that's ever come through his shop.
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: Really, what does the skull measure?
• 45:11
  Speaker 6: When it was green, it was just under twenty inches.
• 45:14
  Speaker 6: I haven't measured it since since I boiled it.
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: So were you by yourself?
• 45:19
  Speaker 3: And then a buddy helped me pack it out.
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: Oh that's all I can say.
• 45:21
  Speaker 6: If you had to pack all that out, it was
• 45:23
  Speaker 6: even the two of us. It was brutal and it
• 45:24
  Speaker 6: was hot too. It was like seventy plus degrees. That
• 45:28
  Speaker 6: hide and head was insanely awkward and heavy to pack out.
• 45:31
  Speaker 3: Had to cross creek multiple times.
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: So you got him rugged?
• 45:35
  Speaker 3: Uh, it's just uh the hide right now? Thinking about
• 45:38
  Speaker 3: getting event get rugged?
• 45:39
  Speaker 4: Yeah?
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: Tho, those are good things to hang on. Do you
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: have a place to like hang it or throw it
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: in the.
• 45:44
  Speaker 3: House in my office at the moment.
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: Ok, yeah, right upstairs.
• 45:47
  Speaker 3: It looks pretty good up there next to my mountain lion.
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: Sweet uh couple.
• 45:52
  Speaker 3: I got one more just it was hard to pick
• 45:55
  Speaker 3: out of the two.
• 45:56
  Speaker 6: Got to kill a white tail buck and a dot
• 45:59
  Speaker 6: with my son.
• 45:59
  Speaker 3: This here it was alongside with me. Uh, it was
• 46:02
  Speaker 3: really fun.
• 46:03
  Speaker 6: Got some private land access not too far from home here.
• 46:06
  Speaker 6: I don't think I would have got the access if
• 46:08
  Speaker 6: I said I'm hunting by myself. But I said I
• 46:10
  Speaker 6: was bringing my seven year old boy along, and it
• 46:12
  Speaker 6: was like heck, yeah, I bring him in and we
• 46:14
  Speaker 6: shot a dough out of a blind within the first
• 46:16
  Speaker 6: couple of minutes, and the landowner said, if you see
• 46:18
  Speaker 6: this super old unicorn buck dragging his feet around, you
• 46:22
  Speaker 6: should shoot him because he's probably not going to make
• 46:24
  Speaker 6: it through the winter.
• 46:25
  Speaker 3: And as we were dragging out the dough, that buck.
• 46:28
  Speaker 6: Came out of the out of the cottonwoods and we
• 46:30
  Speaker 6: got him too, So doubled up within a about an
• 46:33
  Speaker 6: hour of hunting.
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: So you literally just had the one horn on the
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: one side.
• 46:38
  Speaker 3: There's a tiny little nub on the other side.
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: Did that thing have any teeth left in its head?
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: Barely?
• 46:44
  Speaker 6: No, I'm dying to see how old he is. Send
• 46:47
  Speaker 6: him in to get well.
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: Did you send in a tooth to the lab here?
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: And yeah?
• 46:52
  Speaker 6: It takes about eight months though, so you'll find out
• 46:54
  Speaker 6: more to come on that one. But that was pretty
• 46:56
  Speaker 6: special to have my son there with h Yeah.
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, cool.
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: Cal do you got for us?
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: That eight month waiting period for old Marshall is going
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: to be tough.
• 47:03
  Speaker 3: I know he's already forgot that probably is, yeah, easily, Yeah,
• 47:09
  Speaker 3: I'm hoping. Yeah, I'm guessing eight or nine.
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: I had a great hunting adventures this year. Obviously, there's
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: a big brown bear in Alaska which was great when
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: we talked about that a bunch and I just wanted
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: to hit since we're coming to the end of the season.
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: I get is depressing, but I get a lot of
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: people who write in and tell me how bad hunting is.
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: Hard, there's no animals anywhere, too many people and why bother.
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: I spend the vast, vast, vast majority of my time
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: on public lamp and my secret to success is just trying.
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: Like that's all that all, Like it's that simple. I
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: see spots that I've never hunted before, and I just go, Yep,
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: probably nothing here, but we're gonna give it a shot.
• 48:06
  Speaker 4: Ye.
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: And that's just once you pull the band aid off
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: of like, well, I gotta go to the place that
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: I know, a whole new world opens up to you.
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: And you know, if a bunch of people dump into
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: your spot and your choices of finding something new or
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: pissing and moaning and go find something new, go ruin
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: somebody else's spot.
• 48:31
  Speaker 5: Yeah, that's the thing.
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: Man, Like, if you're griping about too many trucks at
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: the trailhead in your park, there, guess what those other
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: people are doing griping about your truck being there? No doubt.
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So this this picture that Phil is going to
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: pop up is from one of these times whereas driving
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: it was getting close to end a shooting light, is
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: a cold, snowy day, and here I'm looking at this
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: river bottom or creek bottom, and I'm like, dang, that's
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: good looking pheasant. Wish some lucky son of a gun
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: out there, and you know, knock on a door maybe
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: I don't know. And there's this little chunk of public
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: land that attaches to the highway, just this place where
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: you'd be like, there's no way there's any birds here
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: at this point in the season, maybe opening day type
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: of thing. But swung off, grabbed the dog and Snort
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: and I at a very fast pace went to go
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: check this place out and cut a pheasant track. We
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: followed it, and all of a sudden, like I was
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: so surprised, I did everything I could not to shoot
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: this bird because I got the gun over my shoulder,
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: was just like not in the game at all, and
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: just barely caught this this rooster that Snort had flushed
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: flying over the hillside, was lucky enough to get him.
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: And I celebrated the moment in a very unseerious pheasant
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: hunting way by taking a picture of the dog and'd
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: be like, God, how cool is this? And then we
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: flushed another rooster right after this, after talking and taking
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: pictures and laughing and obviously that shotgun going off, and
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: fifty yards later flushed another rooster, got that bird because
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: I was prepared, And then we walked in serpentine fashion
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: five more miles, never found another pheasant track at all.
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: So we were just the right place at the right time,
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: and it never would have happened had we not just
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: tried something.
• 50:45
  Speaker 5: New Amen col amen.
• 50:49
  Speaker 6: Spot that maybe was overlooked days before, you know, yeah,
• 50:52
  Speaker 6: exactly so, And it's just yeah, like.
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: Those two birds are way better than shooting a limit
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: of birds on Like it would have been a win
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: to go out there and flush a bird right right,
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: So cool.
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, guess at least me, my favorite hunt of the
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: year is always going to be like the youth deer
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: hunt with all all the kids and all the family,
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: But like I also like to get in, you know,
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: a solo hunt now and then, and uh, this year
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: we got we got it going, phil This year I
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: drew a Colorado mule deer bock tag and it was
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: in November. And for anyone's who's never experienced a really
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: good uh mule deer rut hunt, it's it's pretty special.
• 51:47
  Speaker 2: During a typical white tail rut hunt, especially if you're
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: archery hunt in the woods, usually only get to experience
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: it in like flashes, right, like here comes a buck,
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: Jason Adoe, and then he's gone. But in like more
• 52:01
  Speaker 2: open mule deer country, like when the rut's going, like
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: you get just like kick back and watch the show
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: and it's amazing, like just watching bucks push does, watching
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: bucks push other bucks around, and that's what this day. Well,
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: that's what happened on this day. We just like hit
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: it right. That's my buddy Dan, And like pretty much
• 52:26
  Speaker 2: from first light on we were looking at ruddy bucks
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: cruising around solo or looking for does or bucks that
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: were chasing does. And Dan killed this buck like maybe
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: an hour after shooting light started. We'd already glassed up
• 52:40
  Speaker 2: two other bucks and we're like which one should we
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: go after? How should we go after them? And then
• 52:46
  Speaker 2: that buck like it's just like there in front of us,
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: two hundred yards away, and and Dan was like, yeah, man,
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: shoot that one. So he killed that buck. We got
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: him cut up and stuff that meet up in a
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: juniper and kept hunting all day and pretty much all
• 53:06
  Speaker 2: day long we were like looking at bucks. It was
• 53:09
  Speaker 2: like amazing, Like it was a warm day, like it
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: was cold here in the morning, but warm day, but
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: didn't matter. There's still like deer out bucks looking at
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: dose all day long. And I guess about it would
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: have been about like an hour and a half before.
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: Dark.
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: I found this buck, glassed him up, and uh that
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: that deer was. That buck was like obviously you got
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: the picture film there he is like that buck was
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: like like he's not a big scorn buck, but like
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: he was the freaking man, like he had all the does.
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: He was chasing other bucks around, keeping him away from
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: those does, and like after watching him for an hour,
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: I'm like, yeah, he's the one. And part of the
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: thing that that gets me going like on whether I'm
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: gonna shoot a buck or not is not necessarily the antlers.
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: It's like when you're looking at a buck that's twice
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: the size of the dose that he's hanging out with,
• 54:12
  Speaker 2: like literally twice the size, Like you're looking at a
• 54:15
  Speaker 2: good one no matter what his antlers look like and
• 54:18
  Speaker 2: that was this buck. So ended up doing a pretty
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: steep downhill stock got to four hundred yards, ran out
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: of cover and shot him and killed him. It was
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: cool because the deer never knew I was there and
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: I killed him instantly. But we walked down like I
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: had a good landmark on what like that deer just
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: disappeared out of the scope. And when I asked Dan
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: what happened, He's.
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: Like, I don't know.
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: I and the deer's just not there, and You're like,
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: that's not your down. So we get down there and
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: it's like getting on towards dark and I'm like he
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: was right in front of there was like a lone
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: pinion pine and it was like he was standing right
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: in front of that. Get down there.
• 54:58
  Speaker 5: I'm like, man, not a track, no blood, no hair,
• 55:04
  Speaker 5: Like you.
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: Start panicking, you know, because I'm like, if he ran,
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: he ran this way, went down that way, no tracks,
• 55:10
  Speaker 2: no hair, And I'm like, I'll fully admit, Like I
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: started swearing.
• 55:14
  Speaker 5: I'm like, damn, what what the heck?
• 55:17
  Speaker 4: My job?
• 55:20
  Speaker 2: And then I go back to where I'm like, this
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: is where he was standing, and I like, I.
• 55:24
  Speaker 5: Don't know why I didn't do it.
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: Earlier.
• 55:26
  Speaker 5: But I turned my head of the right, he's like
• 55:28
  Speaker 5: ten feet away the.
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: Tenor and a doorn like and then you're like, I
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: am too old to let panic d my decision making exactly.
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: But it was a long day man, like well before
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: dark to well after dark, a lot of miles, big packouts,
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: and it was just a great hot.
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: Heck yeah, man, beautiful buck, Yeah, super cool.
• 55:48
  Speaker 3: You can see the fat rolls on him.
• 55:50
  Speaker 5: Just oh yeah, shank.
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: Those those Colorado bucks that can spend the summer up
• 55:55
  Speaker 2: above tree line and then migrate down a good winter range.
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: Like they're huge. They're huge deer, like, you know, two
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: inches of fat on the back, like pushing three hundred pounds.
• 56:04
  Speaker 2: I'm guessing. So yeah, that was that was a real
• 56:08
  Speaker 2: good hunt this year, I guess, Phil. Do you just
• 56:13
  Speaker 2: want to like how much how much time you brody?
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: I mean, we're we're almost at an hour right now,
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: So let's just do this first one to err pick
• 56:21
  Speaker 2: some questions.
• 56:21
  Speaker 5: Yeah, we'll do what's We'll just do one.
• 56:24
  Speaker 2: We're gonna do a little fan Q and a section
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: in lieu of the live chat with our listeners, and
• 56:30
  Speaker 2: uh this one. Uh. The guy's name is a j
• 56:35
  Speaker 2: I forget his last name. He sent in an email.
• 56:39
  Speaker 2: It's a little long, but it's pretty juicy, so so
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: bear with me. I'm gonna read it. My wife's college
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: roommate is married to a guy who asked to go
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: deer hunting with me every season. On paper, it should
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: be perfect. He lives near great public Land. Our kids
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: get along and it's become an annual trip north to
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: visit them. The problem is his idea of hunting couldn't
• 57:01
  Speaker 2: be further from mine. He rode hunts almost exclusively, shoot
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: steer from the truck, target spawns on purpose.
• 57:07
  Speaker 5: And only takes headshots.
• 57:09
  Speaker 2: I've made it clear I won't shoot from the road
• 57:11
  Speaker 2: or hunt that way. Even so he insists on helping
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: me get one. He pressures me to stay in the
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: truck and keeps telling me I don't need to unload
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: my gun when we get in the truck. If I
• 57:22
  Speaker 2: say I want to hunt alone, he takes it personally.
• 57:24
  Speaker 2: I end up spending most of the weekend riding around
• 57:28
  Speaker 2: instead of actually hunting. This is where it gets real good.
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: To complicate things further, my wife already dislikes him due
• 57:37
  Speaker 2: to him cheating on his wife. Shortly after they were married.
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: I don't want to interfere with my wife's friendship with
• 57:42
  Speaker 2: her former roommate. But we're both on the same page
• 57:45
  Speaker 2: that we don't like him. YadA YadA there curious the
• 57:51
  Speaker 2: question is, so, my question is, how do you handle
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: someone whose ethics fundamentally clash with yours, especially when family
• 57:59
  Speaker 2: and friends are involved. What's the line between being polite
• 58:03
  Speaker 2: and enabling behavior that gives hunting a bad name?
• 58:07
  Speaker 7: Man?
• 58:08
  Speaker 2: Like, I understand the dilemma of like the wife friendship here,
• 58:13
  Speaker 2: but other than that, this is like very simple. Uh,
• 58:17
  Speaker 2: you're talking about a guy who's hunting illegally and unethically,
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: not to mention being a cheating scumbag, So like you
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: just gotta cut ties and not worry about being polite.
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: I don't know if you guys have anything more.
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: To add, but like pretty cut the email.
• 58:35
  Speaker 2: He's basically trying to convince himself that this what's what
• 58:38
  Speaker 2: is what he needs to do. I think like he's
• 58:40
  Speaker 2: talking himself through it and just needs like gentle push
• 58:44
  Speaker 2: to be like no more. Yeah, yeah, so AJ like
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: get rid of him, don't get drugged down buddy. Yeah yeah,
• 58:55
  Speaker 2: it sounds like you like you already have some good
• 58:59
  Speaker 2: morals and around hunting, and it's just like not worth
• 59:03
  Speaker 2: being around that guy.
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: I will say, the only defensible thing here is there's
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: nothing wrong with shooting fonts.
• 59:10
  Speaker 5: No, there's nothing wrong with shooting fonds.
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: But you know, if you're doing it leaning out of
• 59:15
  Speaker 2: a truck with running truck, then then it's a problem.
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 59:21
  Speaker 2: So yeah, I didn't figure you guys would would have
• 59:24
  Speaker 2: a whole lot to say, but I felt like AJ
• 59:26
  Speaker 2: really needed a friendly push in the right direction.
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, nowhere to go, but up, buddy, We're gonna do
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: another one film, Okay.
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: And also I do think, just partially because Nick already
• 59:40
  Speaker 2: made the thumbnail and the title is at the stone,
• 59:41
  Speaker 2: I think it would be good if we hit on
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: just some brief New Year's resolutions.
• 59:46
  Speaker 5: Oh yeah, we're gonna do that.
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: Okay, great that that.
• 59:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll get there.
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: We can.
• 59:53
  Speaker 2: Let's move on, all right, because we're using up a
• 59:57
  Speaker 2: lot of time. We're gonna do our Cal interview. Is
• 59:59
  Speaker 2: that good, pil? Can we move on all right? Uh?
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: Okay?
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 2: For our next interview, we've got our very own Cal,
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: the conservation Man Callahan. As as most of you hopefully know,
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 2: Cal is officially the new CEO of Backcountry Hunters and Anglers.
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 2: He's gonna continue doing some cal stuff for Meat Eater
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 2: on a part time basis, but he's gonna have his
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 2: hands full at BHA and this may be his last
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 2: appearance on Radio Live. So this whole thing is kind
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 2: of like a bittersweet farewell cal First off, congratulations, Yeah, Oh,
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 2: I don't think BHA could have chosen a better person
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: for the job than you. But I got to know
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 2: it is that like that CEO title making you a
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 2: little nervous.
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: Oh my god, the things I don't know, you know,
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: like that's not the there's no motivation there to be
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 1: a CEO. There's a lot of motivation to just like
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: fully embrace the things that I that that motivate me, right.
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 2: And a whole bunch of other people.
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and this, Yeah, I was asked would be like
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: the simplest way, like why'd you do it? Well, they asked, right, Yeah,
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: And so I'm I'm very very excited. Yeah, And I'm
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: just like gung ho to like be able to just
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: like fully embrace, you know, this big thing that's been
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: a big part of my life that I've kind of
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: been like moonlighting in for a long time as a volunteer,
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: So super stoked there. And then the meat eater side
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: of things is going you know, to continue hosting the podcast,
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: doing some some video work and you know that's going
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: to be like a supportive role, which is pretty darn
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: amazing to be able to do that.
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 2: So cool. Can we expect anything different from BHA with
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 2: with you at leading them?
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: I you know, that's an interesting question. So it's a
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: it's a membership chapter model, non partisan organization. I think
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: the need in the conservation space is like true representation
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: of you know, like folks like us in this room, right,
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: Like a lot of conservation is the speak is aimed
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 1: at folks with with big money and deep pockets that
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: want to give and like we definitely need some of that, sure,
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: but the goal, my dream is to have like you know,
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 1: the rank and file folks that go out and do
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 1: this stuff, the end user of public lands. Yeah, you
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: know represented. Well, we're in a lot of conservation pickles
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: right now, because it's like I swear to god, people
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 1: at the very top are working off of like public
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 1: land theory. Well we've been told, right you people like
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 1: these things right.
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 5: Well, let's let's get into those people at the top.
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 2: I want to read you a quote from an article
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 2: that popped up in my feed this morning. Earlier this year,
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 2: Utah Senator Mike Lee's efforts to slip permission for federal
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 2: lands selloff into a Senate Republican's budget reconciliation bill failed
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 2: after outrage sisms forced him to withdraw the proposal. On Monday,
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 2: December fifteenth, Lee launched another gambit to sell or transfer
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 2: your public lands to private interests by adding amendments to
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 2: the Department of Defense Appropriations Act, which the US Senate
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 2: is now considering. Lee's ployees disguised by complex legalese, but
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 2: if it is adopted, the effect would be to eliminate
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 2: the legal language that requires the Department of the Interior
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 2: to protect public lands, national parks, historic trails, wild and
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 2: wild and scenic rivers, et cetera, et cetera. I imagine
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 2: you're going to be spending a little more time in Washington,
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 2: d C. So if you were to run into Senator
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 2: Mike Lee and a bar, what would you say to him?
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: I would say, thank you for putting together such a
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: perfectly public list of working against the wishes and best
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: interests of the American people. It's like he's writing his
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: own resignation letter. It's like if you're dealing with a
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 1: bad employee, because of all the laws of protecting employees
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 1: with employers and things like that, it can be kind
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: of hard to fire people for cause, but it shouldn't be. Yeah,
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 1: and this guy's like, i'd say, thank you, senator, Like
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 1: you are an obstinate employee that has gone rogue and
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: you are publicly working against the best interest of the
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: American people. Yeah, thank you for filling out the paperwork
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 1: for us. Really, and so like what's I don't know
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: if you guys get like hear my phone blowing up,
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: but it's over what is going on right now? And
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: it is this, you know, it's complicated, like backdoor dealing
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: where he submitted amendments at like the very much eleventh
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 1: hour to this appropriations process that was largely getting wrapped up.
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 1: So again, he's not making friends with a bunch of people.
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 2: There's probably even people in his own party are like
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 2: really again.
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: The people within his own party, the people within the
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: committees that he works on, like he is just working
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: against people. Like nothing's ever easy because like if there's
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: a compliment I can give. This guy's like he's a zealot,
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: Like he's he truly believes, beyond the wishes of anybody,
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: that we should own public land. We shouldn't have public land,
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: we shouldn't have the freedoms that we get to enjoy
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: on public land. Why that is we will likely never know,
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 1: but and it is just it's just like this death
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: of a thousand cuts like type of thing. Well, if
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: I can get a little win here with this amendment,
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 1: and then that'll stack up to this other little wind
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 1: and this other little wind, and it's just going to
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 1: be easier. Because the other thing that he's doing right now,
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 1: right is there's like twenty or twenty five acres in
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: brian Head, Utah that the little municipality there Brian Head
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 1: would love to use this public land for the municipality.
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: There's all these systems in place where we the American people,
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 1: can facilitate that. Right. We can lease that land to
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 1: the municipality and retain ownership, and then we the American people,
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 1: get to use those lease fees for the maintenance or
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 1: creating new public.
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 2: Land, do a land swap or something.
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 1: There's a land swap. There's the sale through the Federal
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 1: Land Policy Management Act where the revenue from that sale
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 1: gets used to get public land of higher value. All
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: these things that are within the Congress of the United States,
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: We the people.
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 2: They're existing levers that can be pulled.
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 1: Yep, and the people of brian Head, Utah can get
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 1: what they want and it doesn't short change the rest
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: of us.
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 1: However, Lee doesn't want to do that. He's like, nope,
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 1: free nothing, right, And are you really going to come
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 1: out and work against these fine citizens of brian Head
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 1: to Utah. And it's like, yep, I am because we
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: have all these systems in place that are public and
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 1: they're for the benefit of we, the people of the
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 1: United States. Right, Let's work within that framework and everybody
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 1: can get what they want. Yeah, But he's just like
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 1: not willing to do that.
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 2: Moving moving past good old Mike Lee, real quick, what
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 2: are some of the other big issues or fights you
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 2: think BHA is gonna be tackling this year and moving forward?
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 1: I think awareness is a huge part of this, you know,
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 1: we it's you know, from the top down, like we're
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 1: being told there's a campaign running to tell people of
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: how our public lands are not good. They're not working
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 1: for us, not in the best interest of the American people.
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 1: And you know, hunters and anglers like if you just
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 1: look at BLM, like we are uniquely poised to be like, actually,
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 1: this stuff's incredible, right, It's insanely valuable. You can't put
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 1: a price tag on it. And then the ecosystem services
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 1: that those lands provide in addition to being like the
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 1: home of like our extractive industry. A lot of times
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 1: it's like the case to sell this stuff off is
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: so thin, like it is just like it should be
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 1: a non starter. So that's going to remain like a
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 1: goal of the organization. You got to get the message out.
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of people out there who are in
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 1: full alignment on this, but they don't pay attention to
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 1: what hunting and angling groups do or think. So that
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 1: coalition part of the package is something that that we
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 1: can definitely help bring to the table.
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 1: So I've got done a lot of work in the
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 1: past with big green conservation groups as well as big
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 1: businesses that more align with the the quote unquote green
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 1: side of things. And the fun thing here is like
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 1: you don't have to give anything up in order to
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 1: bring some education into all sides here.
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 2: So like.
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 1: You know, very succinctly, it's America. We can have our
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 1: guns and our public lands. And if somebody tells you
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 1: that we can't, they're working against you. Like there's nothing
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 1: that we have, nothing that we have and enjoy right
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 1: now that is not here because we didn't demand it.
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 1: It's not here because we got lucky. It's because we
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 1: hit the brakes and said, oh my god, there's no
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 1: more freaking ducks left. We got to do something about this.
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 1: Oh my god, remember how cool elk were. Let's come
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 1: up with a giant program to reseed elk across their
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 1: native range. Like we're in this memory lapse situation right now,
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 1: where it's like people have forgotten all the hard work
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 1: and dedication that happened to give us what we have
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 1: right now, and we just need to remind people that
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 1: this stuff is not here by chance. We didn't get lucky.
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 1: It's by choice, and people demanded that we have this
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 1: system of public lands that we want wildlife and stakes
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 1: access to them, stakes their high exactly.
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, Cal, I'd like to end this interview
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 2: by saying that you've been a big inspiration to me
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 2: over the years, and I'm sure the same goes for
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 2: everyone here at Meat Eater and the fans who are listening.
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 2: So thanks for the work that you're done and the
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 2: work you're about to do. Fight in the good fight
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 2: for all of us hunters and anglers.
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 1: Well, thank you for taking your hosting job and putting
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 1: in this opportunity. So membership, Yeah, got to grow the membership.
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 1: We need more names on the list so we can
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 1: advocate more effectively for our public lands, waters and wildlife.
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 1: So if you can do something for all of us,
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 1: get just get a solo membership and tune in and
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 1: see what we gotta say.
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 2: Cool. Cool, All right, Phil, we're going to end it
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 2: with some New Year's resolutions.
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 1: Cool.
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 2: Imagine we've got enough material by now that we can
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 2: end this thing.
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 5: Cory, Hey, that's twenty twenty six.
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 6: Well yeah, I mean obviously I could try and eat more,
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 6: exercise or sorry, eat eat healthier. Sure, exercise more of
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 6: this than that, and that'll probably come as a roller
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 6: coaster ride, as it typically does.
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 3: For me throughout the year.
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 6: Start out gold and then end up not so healthy,
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 6: but then it comes back and forth. But my new
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 6: year's resolution is my son's gonna be eight next year,
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 6: and I want to do more hunting with him, certainly
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 6: watching you and Joannis and Steve take your kids out
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 6: and hearing all the tips and tricks.
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 3: Man have a great no matter woods.
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 6: With him, it's been tricky up until this point. I
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 6: would say we've done a little bit more this year
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 6: than in year's past. But now that he's eight and
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 6: he's a couple of years off of being able to
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 6: do it himself with me, it would so we're gonna
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 6: try and get out a little bit more. A couple
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 6: of squirrel outings spring Turkey cool every day in the summer,
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 6: then up.
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 3: Next fall too, So nice. Yep, more time in the
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 3: woods than my.
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 1: Boy, that's a good one. I support you in that.
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 3: Oh thank you?
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 2: Ye got anything specific or.
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 1: Oh boy? I not really just improve on all fronts.
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 2: That's fine, that's all. That's good enough.
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 1: Day by day, Yeah, yeah, yeah, baby steps. My resolution
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 1: for weight loss comes with like I I have always
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 1: kept like the same stable of T shirts, Like the
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 1: new ones come and go real fast. Yeah, but I'm
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 1: like if I throw on an old T shirt that
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 1: I really like and go, oh my god, Yeah, that's
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 1: that's my.
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 2: Don't think it as someone who's got a weight loss problem.
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 1: Oh man, it's just like you know, older, get old,
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 1: beer gut becomes like a real thing.
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah you go, Ho, who.
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 4: Is this.
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 1: Cool?
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 2: Big one for me is I'm doing a marathon with
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 2: a goal time at three point thirty, which is it's
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 2: gonna be tough, but it's doable if I stick with
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 2: the training and uh get lucky and stay injury free.
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 2: It's gonna be a tough one, but I'm giving it,
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 2: giving it a go.
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 1: What's what's your timeline?
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 2: September? So I'll start like the actual like regimented training
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 2: program in early April. So between now and then, it's
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 2: just putting miles on you know.
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, plus around here you need you know, there's a
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 1: good chance you need like, uh indoor training.
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah exactly. Like I like I was looking at spring
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 2: marathons because you can't, like you can't. It's too hot
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 2: in the summer right in a lot of places. But
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 2: like Missoula has one in June. But then when you
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 2: think about Montana's winner, it's like, do I have time
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 2: to get ready for that one? Not really? So it's
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 2: better that I'm doing one doing what I'm doing one
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 2: out in Billings in September. N Yeah, and then like
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 2: for like our world, our hunting world, whatever we want
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 2: to call it, Like Corey, it's pretty much kind I've
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 2: kind of had the same one going for a few
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 2: years and it probably shows my age and it's corny
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 2: and cliche, but it's like focusing on the fun, the experience,
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 2: the people, the places. Like That's what I'm worried about
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 2: these days, rather than like what in animal scores or
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 2: something like that. I just want hunting to be like
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 2: it was when I was a kid and everything was
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 2: special and fun, and then there's like the old man
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 2: element to it where you'd like grow wise enough to
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 2: just like appreciate whatever you're given, you know what I mean?
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 2: Like that, So that's my like hunting resolution for the year.
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 1: That's a good one. Yeah, I need. I was gonna say,
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 1: I have not done like my big wilderness backpack hunt
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 1: for two years now, and uh time I have, like
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 1: for mental health purposes, I got to make that thing happen,
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 1: ye for sure. Yeah, that's like a big Buck Dreams
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 1: type of deal. But yeah, I mean consequently, like I
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 1: haven't shot it here in two years because the whole
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 1: scene is so important to me, where it's like it's
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 1: way more you're spending.
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 2: All your time protecting that stuff rather than going.
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 1: Out I want to keep though, is like I don't
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 1: want this to be a career. I want to like
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 1: put myself out of a job as soon as possible, right, so,
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 1: like as as fast as people can on absolutely, Oh absolutely, man.
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 1: And I think that is like a real difference in
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 1: goal like career people and all sorts of things, Like
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 1: like there's people in this space that I think a
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 1: third of the time they're working in a way that
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 1: will never put this ship to bed. Right, I'm like, oh, great,
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 1: you just created more enemies that are galvanized against you.
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 1: I'm like, how about we just do the good thing
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 1: and and get it done and then everybody understands and
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 1: respects of this stuff and we can go I'll go
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 1: back to swinging a hammer, being happy.
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 2: Nice.
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 5: I think that's a great place to end it. What
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 5: about Phil, Swing Phil.
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 2: Phil, Phil, We're gonna jump back in time. What I
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 2: need you to address something?
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 1: Damn following.
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 5: Phil, this this is we're.
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 2: Going back to a podcast question. I swear to God
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 2: We're gonna end it after this.
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 1: Okay from Tate Green.
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 2: At the beginning of a some Meat Eater podcast on YouTube,
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 2: there's a Dude Wipes commercial.
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 1: I've never heard this commercial, but continue.
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 2: There's a singing voice that sounds like it could be Phil.
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 2: Is this you Phil? No, I wish I could say
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 2: it was me. It is not me. I'm flattered you
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 2: think I can sing as well as that guy. He's
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 2: he's built in it and he's he's really reaching for
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 2: the stars there.
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 1: Nope, that's not me. But I don't know.
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 2: If I get tired of me eater, I might like
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 2: Nancy Kerrigan him and then I'll maybe take his job
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 2: or something.
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because that's the only way. It's the it truly is.
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 2: I mean, you're already the best podcast engineer in the
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 2: business and in demand stage actor, semi professional gamer, world renowned,
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 2: dungeon master world renowned. But you know you might have
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 2: time to get a side hustle singing jingles.
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 3: How's that song go?
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 7: Again?
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 2: He won't sing it? He told me what. Well, Yeah,
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 2: Dude Wipes, he needs to pay us more money if
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 2: they want us to sing the song on the show, So.
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 1: Free fork it out. Dude, wipes. Don't we get a
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 1: film resolution?
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 3: Oh, I was wondering.
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 1: My mind is to read more. Hey, there you go.
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 3: That's a good one.
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 5: Solid, always a good one.
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 3: With you on that.
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 1: Any genre?
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 2: Oh?
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 1: Nothing, nothing, I mean it's fantasy. Col I don't know.
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 1: I'm not reading any nonfiction around here.
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 2: The Dungeon Master's Manual, twenty third edition.
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 1: It's in my backpack up in my office right now. Amazing.
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 5: All right everyone, Happy New Year, happy holiday.
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 2: Do good in twenty twenty six and tune in next
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 2: week later you're here.