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Navigating Client Relations: Strategies for Business Success · Business Roundtable

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Hey, everybody, welcome back the Business Roundtable podcast. We have got Charlie
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and Bill back with us here. I'm David Carr, one of your hosts,
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steward your business, helping you and your teams lead well, helping helping
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you in overall organizational health. We've got a great topic to be led by
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Charlie tonight, but I'll let Bill introduce himself and then we'll throw it over
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to Charlie. Bill. Hey, well, not to get too much into
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it, but my name is Bill Hatch. I am a leadership guide and
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podcaster. I podcast under the publishing header of Bald Spots Productions. So glad
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to have you back, Billy A, Charlie, welcome back. Yeah,
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got the trio here, all right, yep, absolutely so, David,
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thanks for the brief introduction. So it's Charlie Chen the cybersecurity specialist of the
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group here, and I work as the chief Experience Officer, where our focus,
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obviously, aside from delivering peace of mind to small to mid sized companies,
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is to deliver a world class client experience that you don't typically associate with
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it support people. So anyhow, let's jump right in. So I want
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to yeah to dovetail off of the last segment, which is about communication,
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and what better way to start than with the customer or client life cycle management
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because there's different touch points along their journey with our businesses, and so there's
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five areas predominantly within a customer's life cycle with our businesses's reach, acquisition,
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I can't really see my hand, conversion, retention, and finally loyalty,
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and so I wanted to just actually pick both of your brains. We'll start
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with you, David, in terms of your outreach to potential customers or clients,
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what's your communication best practices around that? That's that's a great question because
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I know we were talking about this right before we came on here the ones
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we don't like, and we kind of talked a little bit about that in
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the Business Development episode two. So if you guys missed that one, go
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back and check that out. That was a great conversation with you and Luke
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and and so, you know, I think one thing that's really important,
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Charlie is you just started. You actually gave us a good example of it.
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Who are you about, who do you serve? What's your message?
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Right? And I think it's really important to have a clear message and know
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who do you want to serve. I think a lot of businesses are too
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broad in their messaging and they just kind of get anybody they can, and
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that's I find not a good solution. So it's number one. It's it's
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really knowing who you are and what your message is, and then who you
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really want to serve, and then you can really tailor the message. I
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definitely want to get into more specifics with you, Charlie, but I find
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that, like Bill, Bill and I were just talking earlier, we'll get
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messages unsolicited and then like they don't even know us. LinkedIn is the worst
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for that and one of them, I mean email too, right, Bill,
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You're like, Bill, just share your example real quickly. I just
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think it's funny because I was like this, I want to reconnect with Bill
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on LinkedIn and tell tell me Bill why you're like, oh, I'm hesitant
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to get on there about communicy? Yeah, oh I get on there so
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little, Lenny more because it seems like everybody is, hey, how you
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doing buy my thing? You know, it's like you need a relationship.
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I mean it's it's called client relationship management for a reason. You know,
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it's it's a relationship, and uh you know, people people get too uh
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too far into it too fast, and uh you know, it's like it's
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one thing if I approached you and and said, hey, I'm interested in
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your in your widget, then you know, it's like okay, that's that's
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the sales question right there, and uh and all. But if I'm just
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hanging out, uh you know, that's like yeah, it's it's uncomfortable.
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It's ridiculous, and uh yeah, people just need to stop it, you
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please, And the words of Bob Newhart if anything knows that episode, just
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stop it. Yes, So what I what I hear you saying, Bill,
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is is a build relationship first? Yes, awesome, Yeah, it's
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yeah, you can't. You can't sell a cold a cold client. Okay,
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so what about you know, speaking of outreach and reaching out to too
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potential customers or clients, what's your take on on cold calling? Well,
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it's you have to treat it like the beginning of a relationship. You know,
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if if you treat a cold call like well, like I used to.
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Uh, I used to sell cars and a lot of cold calling,
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but not absolutely cold because usually these people had signed up somewhere saying, hey,
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I'm interested in getting more information on a car. So it's not absolute
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zero cold, but it's still pretty cold. But but you had to treat
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it like the beginning of the relationship. You weren't going to call them up
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and say, hey, I have a car, buy it. You know
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it's hey, I understand you're interested in cars, right right, you know,
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tell me more and uh, you know, let me uh, let
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me know what what your thoughts are on it, and you know where you're
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at, so I can so I can start the relationship. M h.
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Absolutely, What about you, David? Have you run into that like me,
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personally, I'm not. That's not an area that I focused in on.
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And there's actually a great resource in case you guys probably have seen this
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one, but this is a really good book if you want to get into
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leads and what types of leads are for me at this stage in the business.
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I've always, I've honestly always mostly focused on warm leads or if they
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if it's if it's cold meaning not cold, but meeting somebody said that,
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hey, I at least want more information. Maybe they don't know me,
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like you're saying, Bill, but they've said they've signed a form or they
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filled up something that says I'm willing to get information. Right, it's not
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coming unsolicited, it's somehow somewhere they said that they wanted information. And that's
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part of the I call. I have a kind of a similar framework that
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I worked from, Charlie, as far as I call it strategic deduction about
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how we in a good way, how do we have that relationship? Like
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you said, Bill, And the first part for me is communicate message.
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The second part is really capturing permission. And I find that much more successful
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is like you were saying, Bill, I capture informission and somebody says,
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yeah, okay, I'm willing, I'm interested. You've got my attention,
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right, Charlie. And and and but that takes that takes time. Sometimes
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people have to hear your message for a while before they feel like, okay,
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I'm I'm I'm let's go to the next step. Yeah. Yeah.
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And that's actually the that transitions to the acquisition stage, which is when a
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perspective customer becomes a lead. But before we dive into that to where we
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can help them see how our solution solves their problems and challenges. Ah,
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just from a I guess recommendation standpoint for some of the small to midsized companies
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that may not have a huge marketing budget in terms of their reach to generate
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that interest in their business, what what are some cost effective ways of generating
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generating that interest or that attraction marketing. I mean, I'll just jump in
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there first, and then Bill jump in. I mean one of the mentors
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of Giant that I have, Steve Cochran, who actually wrote the book The
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Communication Code, we talked about last week. You know, I was talking
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with him last year and I said, you know, as a in that
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kind of stage, Charlie, looking at that part of that, I said,
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he was recommending find your people of peace, meaning these may not be
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your buyers, but they know you, Charlie, or they know you Bill,
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and they know you're reputable, they know you're good, and then let
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them be introductor and introduced or referrals to clients. I mean I did that
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with you, Charlie, and we all met an m and O. We
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talked about playing paying it forward. That's relatively no cost. You're not paying
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anybody, it's just their time, and that to me is very valuable.
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Is and that's what we do here we're building relationships and we provide this as
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a resource too. If people conduct us here, we can like get to
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know them and say how can I introduce you or connect? I find that
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very very powerful and honestly, if we forget sometimes if we even ask our
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existing customers Charlie like who's somebody that I might be able to help that you
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know? And they we don't ask the question. They are not thinking about
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it, like I don't I'm not going to tepe people because you're not You're
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not asking me And that's all. It takes a simple question, who do
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you know else that I could help that might be able to help? Right?
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Exactly? What about you? Bill? Yeah? Absolutely, I am
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a I'm a huge uh proponent proponent of networking. You know, it's it's
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networking is to time as marketing is to money. So if you don't have
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the money to pay for the marketing, then you better have the time to
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work on the networking. You know, getting referrals is is a great way
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to get to get clients because they're not absolutely cold. You know, someone's
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built up a trust relationship with that potential client and and they're referring them to
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you. You know saying hey, you trust me, Well I trust this
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guy, so why don't you go ahead and talk to them about this need?
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And yeah, it's a great way to to make up for that marketing
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budget. Yeah absolutely, Okay, awesome. So now that we have an
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interested party, they become a a lead. So doing this acquisition phase is
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where you have the communication with a potential customer. What are some I guess
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best practices or or frame or maybe or just talking points or or maybe just
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in terms of certain key concepts or or I guess steps that that you may
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put a potential lead through UH to to identify UH and uncover to see if
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they're a good fit and if you're a good fit for each other. So
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we'll start with you, Bill. Well, it's all about the questions,
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you know, the the per person who has who is asking the questions has
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the control of the situation. And if you're in the sale seat, you
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want, you know, on the sellar seat, you want to be in
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control, but you have to be careful not to make it feel like you're
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controlling them, you know, So you ask a lot of of question questions
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about you know, what their needs are and how they feel about different things
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and what they see as their as their their future. You know, where
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where are you going? Where do you plan to be in in a year,
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in six months, in five years, whatever the timeframe is. And
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uh, you know, just asking learning to ask those good questions to get
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to get the person lined up and make sure that because you want to make
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sure that they're that your solution is right for them. You don't want to
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sell the wrong the wrong person, because that's not going to be good.
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You know, it'll it'll end up backfiring on you. And you can't sell
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everybody because not everybody needs what you have, And if you do sell the
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wrong person, they'll they'll tell more people that they're unhappy than your happiest customer
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will tell people that they're happy. Gotcha, you know? So yeah,
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yeah, bad bad news travels a lot faster, a lot farther good news,
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and so yeah, you want to be careful with that. Absolutely.
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I love that. Yeah, definitely ask questions that also demonstrates your willingness to
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learn about them and care for their their their priorities, as opposed to telling
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them about how great we are. So David, what about you? What
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what are some some of your Yeah? I mean, I love I love
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that Bill be curious and ask questions, ask lots of questions, and we've
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talked about that on previous episodes. I think that's really important. I think
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this idea this brought or what idea what you're brought up this client journey.
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Charlie too, I think it's important. It's almost like literally map out what
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that looks like. I've done that with another business coach. We kind of
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figure out where they're coming in the process, because it can be depending on
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how complicated your system is. It's not a linear thing, you know,
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depending on where this person is in the process and are they closer to the
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place where they're going to make a decision or not and and I fail.
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And at least in my experience, most people can take you know, might
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get somebody that sees your offer ses you than they want to buy within you
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know, a few weeks, but honestly, it's typically months and even longer
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cycle or a year before they're like they've seen enough of your content. So
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I think it's important in this this stage of if they've captured commit permission,
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like we talked about, Charlie, I I the next day is I have
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is called convert mindset. It's getting them into a place where they feel like
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you're a solution. So I'm teaching, I'm training, I'm telling stories,
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I'm asking questions. For me personally as a coach and consultant, it's important
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that I as to do that. I have to show people in my life
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essentially and live what I'm teaching and sharing, right because why would anyone want
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to buy from me if they're not seeing knowing me from anybody else? And
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that takes time and effort to do that, And then I have to talk
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about as part of the process of the comverning mindset is getting clear and asking
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questions. So I would say, if you're not sure as a business owner
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and you're not clear on your ideal client, I would say, go meet
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with some people and start asking some questions like what are some of the things
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you're facing you know right, and and start to understand really understand them.
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This is also helpful for me in creating. You can know, there's all
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different kinds of content. We can probably go into this nuanced Charlie, but
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I'll just give you an example, because you know we're on a podcast and
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I have a separate podcast. The Intelligent Human Leader podcast. When I created
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that podcast specifically, I had to go through who is this person I'm targeting,
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what's the how is it going to resonate with that individual? You know?
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We created this podcast as a way of helping business owners and and and
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those that are being aspiring entrepreneurs. Is like, Okay, let's make sure
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we're getting topics and things that are relevant to them and are going to help
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them, right, So it's good putting ourselves in the mindset of where are
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they at their shoes and them, you know, be the hero, make
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the decision and like, oh, if I do this, I'm actually going
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to be in a better, better place, you know. Yeah. Absolutely.
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I love that you brought up the word conversion because that is the third
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stage. That's where a prospect becomes a purchasing customers. So does that mean
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that our work is done and that that's that's that we're at the destination there?
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Well? No, I mean, well, I think the conversion,
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or maybe right before the conversion, Charlie, you've got the mindset right,
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then you have to have that final decision whether they're going to be be a
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yes or no, And I think maybe just pop before we get to the
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completely like the customer. I'd like to maybe just as a question because this
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came up with another conversation this week where I actually had somebody else talking to
16:44
somebody. We were talking about proposals and lost proposals, and we're talking about
16:48
why, like you actually got the opportunity to pitch them. They said,
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yes, they said, give me your offer, and so here's the opportunity
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to convert. Like you said, Charlie, let I would just take And
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I ask you, Charlie, because I know you do this all the time.
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I want, like, what happened, like when you know you,
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like I thought I understood their needs, I presented it and they said no,
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Like what went wrong there? What have you learned from that? In
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the communication of a client, you know, a potential client? Right,
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Yeah, that's a great question. It all comes back to motivation, Like
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how motivated are they to make a change. Uh. There's a story where,
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uh, you know this, this person passes by a howling dog,
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right and it's it's just sitting there howling, and the dog owner is just
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sitting next to the dog. And so this this this guy asked the owner,
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like why is the dog how just sitting there howling. So the owner's
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like, yeah, he's he's sitting on a on a on a I guess
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the nail kind of like an old know. It's like, well, then
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why doesn't the dog move? The owners like, well, it's it's hurting
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just enough to where it's complaining about it, but not hurting enough to where
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it's going to do something about it. So sometimes, you know, depending
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on the situation and the timing, a potential customer is not hurting enough to
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that they're not motive enough to make a change because the the the pain of
18:30
change, of switching to your solution is perceived as a greater pain than whatever
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challenge that they're dealing with now. And so our job is maybe to first
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make sure that they to help them identify their current challenges and and and actually
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future for them, like what's your it's almost like your your default future,
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right, what's the cost of doing nothing? And really having that conversation,
19:00
that visualization so that they can see, Okay, like in our case,
19:06
you know, what is it going to cost you if your business is down
19:10
for a day or a week? Right? You know how much is that
19:12
costing you a day? Right? So that would really put things into perspective
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for them. I love that. No, I think you're one hundred percent
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right, Charlie, and I would get Bill, I just because the problem
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or the pain, because if they if they if you're not hitting that,
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like you said, hard enough, they don't see it there, they're not
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going to move or I made this. Yeah, and doing that. I
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don't know about you, Charlie and Bill. Love to get your thoughts on
19:33
this, because I do. I've done this. I'm guilty of this.
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I used to have a DJ business. I love the DJ music, and
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I always always talk about all the cool gear and the lights and the music
19:42
and da da da dah, all these cool things. But I wasn't talking
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about just what you said about, Charlie. What happens if your wedding goes
19:48
off the rails? What happens? Yeah, I didn't focus in on that,
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and so I would put a a posal together and I would lose.
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I wouldn't I wouldn't get it. And because I wasn't, I wasn't resonating
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enough. But Bill, I love your thoughts on this kind of topic.
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Yeah, yeah, having the finding the well, people run from pain or
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they run toward pleasure but they more often tend to run from pain, and
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you have to use a little bit of both to to help people run toward
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your solution. You know, if you know, find out what their pains
20:23
are, make sure you quantify them, and you know, and tell how
20:30
you can solve those pain problems. And then what's good about you, because
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you know, you want to make sure people feel good about your solution,
20:41
you know, And yeah, just just help them to get off that nail.
20:51
I want to get off the nail. And you know, and and
20:56
and you might have to sharpen that now for them, right, No,
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I think sometimes that is yeah maybe yeah, I mean, at least the
21:07
reality of it. But I think, you know, and and a lot
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of it, a lot of it. We've talked about it. Look,
21:15
go ahead. I was just gonna say, okay, I was just I
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was gonna say, we've it first, it's impossible, Okay, I was
21:30
just gonna say that, Yeah, the leg makes it impossible. I was
21:33
just gonna say that it we've talked about it before. But it bears repeating
21:38
here that we must be good active listeners. We have to hear. We
21:45
can't just hear the words and let them bounce off us and and go toward
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you know, toward our our kill shop. We have to we have to
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hear, listen to and hear what the client is saying as far as you
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know, what are their pain points, what would make things better for them,
22:00
and do and work from that. I love that you said that,
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Bill, That's actually a neat trick that I learned this past couple of years
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is really being fully present and repeating back exactly what was said, so literally,
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I say, what I heard you saying, is Bill, to use
22:25
active listening and actually hear what they're telling you. Anyway, I didn't do
22:33
a good job there, but I tell them exactly what was said, and
22:36
then I asked them, did I hear you correctly? And so it's almost
22:41
counterintuitive to do that because we you know, at first when I started doing
22:45
it, I felt like a parrot. But you know, but for people
22:49
to really feel heard, like seeing heard and understood, that works really well
22:55
for that. So yeah, yeah, no, I think it's you don't
23:00
need to You don't want to stop there with the with the parenting though,
23:06
I mean, that's that's step one that's important, but you also need to
23:10
make sure you understand what they mean by that, and so rewording what they've
23:17
said after you've repeated it. You know, I heard you say that this
23:21
is important to you. Did you mean this by that? You know?
23:26
And uh, you know that to to help the client not only not only
23:33
feel that you've heard them, but you've understood them, yep as well.
23:37
That's that's that clarity piece we talked about last week. And I think it's
23:42
important that we lead them when you have that final when you're in that conversation,
23:48
Charlie, if you they've actually said, Okay, I'm interested in some
23:51
of us, give us some of them, some of us, give them
23:52
proposals, some some business, depending on what it is. Can literally,
23:56
you know, process the sale right there and there, but get them like
24:02
you're saying bill in a good way, like saying, hey, you know,
24:03
the goal here would be to make a decision yes or no, we
24:07
don't The maybe is a bad place to be with a customer. If you're
24:12
in the that's kind of like, you know, it's like you're staying in
24:15
the friend zone. It's like, are we going to get married and work?
24:18
Do this? Are we? You know, what's what's going on here?
24:21
Right? And so to your point, Bill, get clarity, like,
24:23
what what's your real intention here? Because if it doesn't have both both
24:26
parties right, if you're both being like being kind of let on here,
24:30
what's going on? So if they've gone through what you're talking about, Charlie,
24:33
this whole process, you want to get to that place where they can
24:37
actually make a decision one way or the other. Right, be good with
24:41
it and become with it. We don't want people to make a decision,
24:45
you know, forced, right, Like sometimes people make force like that buyer's
24:48
regret and that's worse. And what's yeah, speaking of that, like the
24:53
actual acquisition portion of it. In terms of the communication should around that?
25:02
Do you just send the the proposal over email? Do you just how do
25:07
you typically handle that communication like showing them going over the members? I mean
25:15
ideally ideally. Then this depends on who your your client is, right,
25:19
it's an individual. It's a lot easier in my opinion, the proposal should
25:23
if you have to send a proposal, that should be a formality just solidifying
25:30
and getting the contracting and in place. They already understand. There shouldn't be
25:33
a lot of surprises. In my opinion, it's like, Okay, we
25:37
talked about this. We understand the coll These are just some things we just
25:40
got to make sure we got. You know, there may be some negotiations
25:42
on some basic contracting language, but it shouldn't be anything like surprising or we
25:48
should negotiate and it ideally too. If you can, this is something I've
25:53
learned. If you have you know, you know, a payment portal or
25:59
whatever that is, if you can right then and there where they made the
26:02
decision. They're feeling the pain, right we talked about earlier, Charlie,
26:07
move on that as quickly as possible. They're saying yes, because what happens,
26:11
what happens to all of us if we don't make a decision and we
26:15
feel like we do need to make the decision, and then we let a
26:18
day go by, two days, three days, that the pain has now
26:22
subsided and we're thinking we're onto other things, right, right, So the
26:27
likelihood that we're going to the longer that we go between yeah, yeah,
26:33
what's the word I want to say, you know, consummating. The longer
26:38
we go with that, the less likelihood we're going to actually proceed with the
26:44
sale, right, I mean that's my experience. Yeah, absolutely, what
26:48
about you Bill, what what communication keys? Yeah? Absolutely, you know,
26:55
the the paperwork should be just a formality, you know, making sure
27:00
that everybody knows this is where you need to be and this is what you
27:03
need to do, and this is where I'm going to be, and this
27:06
is what I'm going to do, and this is how much you're going to
27:10
pay me. Here's the payment platform. Yeah, get that. Get that
27:12
commitment right away and as soon as you have the as soon as you have
27:18
the commitment, get the commitment. Yeah, make it. Yeah, make
27:22
it easy to do business with you, right right, yeah, right absolutely?
27:26
And another one thing to give you money, let me do that,
27:29
yeah right, Yes, that's why Amazon is so successful. Right, it's
27:34
a big red easy but yes, yes, right, make it easy.
27:38
Some people make it too difficult. Or here here's the thing, actually,
27:42
Charlie, I think this is important for business owners. And I've learned this
27:45
myself in proposals. A lot of times people actually are ready to say yes.
27:52
Like you're saying, Bill, and you keep talking, you keep going
27:55
on. They're like already convinced you can talk up out of digging struck oil.
28:03
Pay attention to that. They're already like that. You hit the pain
28:07
I'm sold you could actually keep talking and talking out of it if you're not.
28:12
Again, this goes to active listening earlier. Yeah. Right, it's
28:17
learning how to take the sales hat off and put the facilitated hat on.
28:21
Right. Yeah, I means this is a challenge for all of us.
28:26
I mean I were going in between all these things. Consultant, trainer,
28:30
teacher, seller, I mean, all of these elements were we The more
28:36
we can be fluid between them, the better. But it's it's difficult,
28:41
you know. So Yeah. Another thing I've heard is emails is where email
28:47
is where proposals go to die. It's like the proposal graveyard. Right,
28:52
Yeah, yeah, I've heard too. As much as possible, have a
28:59
meeting to go over it, and that way it's there's no room for misunderstanding.
29:06
You can also read any any of their reactions and responses and address any
29:12
concerns or questions that come up as you're going over the solution proposal and the
29:17
numbers and all that. And lastly, I would just say, you know,
29:23
for any communication during the acquisition process is would you guys agree with this
29:32
is always having a next step as opposed to be like leaving ending of a
29:37
meeting without the next step already in place. Yeah, and set up before
29:45
you get that. One other thing that came to my mind, Charlie,
29:48
I just want to bring up because I think it's important, especially for very
29:51
small businesses or you're just starting out, if you're a solopreneur, or maybe
29:59
you know you've got a few people, is don't get in. Don't over
30:03
complicate it, meaning make too many offers. I made that mistake. You
30:10
have a have a core offer that you have, and of course you can
30:11
tailor that offer. But if you guys, you know, if you guys
30:15
go to the grocery store and you said, get a box of cereal and
30:18
you're like, there's forty versions of cereal, which one do I pick?
30:22
If you make it again, make it too complicated, form the Charlie like
30:25
here's the menu, and now paralysis, it's like what And it's just it's
30:30
harder for you to communicate and track to which offer am I talking about today?
30:33
Which one I going on? You know? Right? So being clear
30:38
on your offer I think is really really important. And like you said in
30:42
your offer, what you just said charlier than there's a lead and so when
30:45
we sign up this is the offer, this would be you start within what
30:49
a week? What's the starting it, what's the schedule? Like, okay,
30:52
when we can start today tomorrow? What's the onboarding process of your client?
30:56
Yeah? And you want to definitely come from a concert potative sale standpoint
31:03
as opposed to a commodity sale. Right, So can you imagine if you
31:07
know, you go to your doctor and then they they give you like three
31:11
different prescriptions. Here's your options, right, if we're the const if we're
31:18
the consultant, shouldn't we know what the treatment is? Right? Right?
31:23
Yes? Yeah, yeah, for sure. But yeah, you don't want
31:29
to do you don't want to do too many. I mean, there's a
31:32
reason why I've only ever gone to the cheesecake factory to get cheesecake, and
31:37
that's because they've got a fifty page menu. There's there's too many choices to
31:42
go for, you know, there's too many choices. You get, you
31:45
get, you get confused by you know, and and and it's like,
31:49
oh that sounds good, and that sounds good, but you can't do both
31:52
of those, and you know it's it's just yeah, it's too it's too
31:56
much. You need to limit what your offers are. Yeah, you know,
32:00
it's just like limiting who you're approaching in the first place. You can't
32:05
sell everybody, you know, and you can't sell everything, So leave a
32:10
few things off the off the menu and work on those for later. It's
32:15
like after they get settled, you know, with their with their core product
32:20
and a couple of options. You know, you come in and say,
32:22
hey, I remember it's you know you talking about this such and such.
32:27
Is this still giving you an issue? Well, yes it is. Well
32:30
we have a solution for that that we could easily add on to what you're
32:35
doing already. That's a great point, Bill, I think that goes to
32:38
the customer life cycle sid situation. Sometimes people try to that first offer you
32:45
have, try to hit that out of the park, meaning like try to
32:46
get everything and like what's your customer life cycle? Like what are they with
32:52
you? Because what you're saying, Bill is a great example. You have
32:53
an initial offer and if they really like you, you should have a second
32:58
or probably third offer part of their life cycle. What what's the total I
33:04
mean, what do we call this the lifetime value? Lifetime value? You
33:07
know, what is that? What? What does that person when they come
33:09
work with you what what does that look like? If you're trying to get
33:13
it all in the first offer and like squeeze it out of them, it's
33:15
not a good practice. You've got to think about like, hey, let
33:19
me bring that value and get you go in the system, and then that
33:23
gives me the right to present something next to you and you can decide.
33:27
Hey, if that's like you said, Bill, I think that's a great
33:29
point. Bill, What you just said, like this opportunity is you look
33:30
and evaluate this offer and and and it goes to our earlier conversation about the
33:39
beginning communicating our message again. I got stuck on this too, So I'm
33:44
just kind of sharing other so other people hear this. If you make your
33:47
even if you have a niche kind of thing, but you try to make
33:50
that offer or too too broad, it's not going to resonate with anybody,
33:55
and they're not going to want to come to work with you. I mean
33:58
me specifically. Just I think you guys know, but just so take a
34:02
minute. And you just talked about for Charlie kind of your ideal client.
34:07
But for me, it was like talking to men particularly they're in business that
34:10
want to scale up and they're like how do I know myself to lead myself
34:14
and my teams. Okay, well, if I start talking about marriage,
34:19
that's that's tied to it, but that's not my lead in My thing is
34:22
here's how you can show up in business. Now if as we go through
34:25
our program, we're going to talk about that, because you're really on fire
34:29
in your marriage and you're gonna see that in your business. But that's not
34:32
that's not what they're looking for. As far as I know, that's what
34:36
they need, but that's not what they want. Right, There's a difference
34:39
the thing, what do they want? What are they looking for? And
34:42
are you addressing what they want? You know, and getting really clear on
34:46
that because Charlie, I'm sure you know you know what clients need. They're
34:52
not asking you for that initially, right mm hmm, right right, you
34:57
know, yeah, they don't know what they don't know, you know,
35:00
that's why they're they're needing your help. Right. But there's like I need
35:05
cybersecurity that you're like, I get it. I know that's what you want.
35:09
We're going to get there with our program or bill with your leaderships.
35:15
You know, they're they're they're dealing with maybe an ethical dilemma or you know,
35:19
they're you're you're helping them navigate that, right, you're understanding where they're
35:22
at, right, Yeah, absolutely, and yeah they Yeah, like like
35:29
you said, Charlie, they don't know what they don't know and uh,
35:32
you know, you have to guide them through what they want and uh and
35:37
eventually evaluate what it is they need and uh and get them to understand that
35:44
they need that, you know, to u to find that pain point.
35:50
You know, when I first got into sales, I had this problem that
35:54
I was pretty good at reading people, and so I figure out what they
36:00
needed before they could articulate it, and I lose sale after sale and I
36:07
had to learn to to slow down and to ask questions I already knew the
36:12
answers to, you know, and uh, you know, to find out
36:16
what it was, you know, to help them figure out what it was
36:19
that they really needed and join that with what they wanted. Yeah. Yeah,
36:25
absolutely love that. Okay, So move it on to conversions. So
36:30
once they become a purchasing customer, is is that is our job done?
36:37
Is that it is that I got your money? I'm done? Yeah exactly.
36:45
Yeah. So so David, what what are the what are some key
36:50
steps there during the when they convert. Well, I mean we talked a
36:54
little bit of the onboarding just like an employee. Onboarding is is super important,
37:00
making sure they feel they're plugged in and and I would say have some
37:06
kind of success pretty quickly in the process to keep their momentum going. That
37:13
that to me is really key. However, that is for you and your
37:16
business. And you may use email, you'd be maybe adding them into some
37:21
kind of environment. It may just be a one on one meaning it could
37:27
be I use like loom to record a little video, could be a customized
37:30
little thing. Hey, welcome, here's a little orientation. It's it's guiding
37:34
them through the process. And this is going to change over the life cycle.
37:38
So you know, as I have a solopreneur and have some people that
37:42
help me some vas and things, but you know, it may change,
37:45
and this is important that you have a good handoff process because this is where
37:49
it can get dropped, especially if you're a bigger company. You have sales
37:52
like sales, I'm done, They're moving on to the next sale, right,
37:54
it gets put in the hopper and if somebody is not paying attention,
38:00
Yeah, that could be really bad. That it's like a relay race,
38:01
right, has has the relay been handed off appropriately or is it getting fumbled
38:07
right? Right? That's a great point that that handoff is so key.
38:13
What about you, Bill, like transitioning. Maybe you're both the this front
38:19
end, right, the the business development or the sales, and you're the
38:23
fulfillment as well. So how do you handle that transition right in terms of
38:28
your communication, in terms of setting expectations, all that good stuff. Well,
38:32
for me, well, there's a there's an old saying I like to
38:35
keep in the back of my mind, and that's that the fortune is in
38:37
the follow up. You know, you've you've gotten You've gotten them on board.
38:44
Now is the time when you continue to follow up with them to make
38:47
sure that they're satisfied, to keep that momentum going, like David said,
38:59
like refer for them to your networking partners, or upsell them on further products,
39:06
or get them to refer their acquaintances, their their their fellow business people
39:16
to work with them to get these things going. Yeah, yeah, I
39:22
was going to add add to the Oh wait if I could add, Charlie,
39:24
I think one of the one great tool I've used as part of that
39:29
process where there's onboarding and then once you kind of have them in this in
39:31
there, Charlie, I think it's good to get some kind of feedback or
39:37
something from them, a little form or something so that they can give you
39:40
like what's working and not working, and encourage them so that they that way,
39:45
you have the opportunity to address any issues. And because if they you
39:52
know, they end up saying I don't want to work with you anymore.
39:53
We want to get ahead of it early on if there's any issues, if
39:57
they know they don't want you know, if they're like I don't want to
40:00
be a buyer, I want to leave you, leave your program. Whatever,
40:04
the more we can get ahead of that, the better, Right.
40:07
Yeah, it's this is where the rubber meets the road, where you're delivering
40:10
on the service or the solution that was presented that will solve their problems.
40:16
So I would say, yeah, this is where we really want to hit
40:22
out of the ballparking and have them experience more than maybe they anticipate so they're
40:29
pleasantly surprised, but at the same time not setting yourself up for failure,
40:35
to where you're over promising and and setting them up for disappointment either, right,
40:40
Yeah, that's awesome. So that that leads into the retention stage.
40:46
And so that's kind of what you were talking about, David, is having
40:52
them turning that initial purchase into a relationship. So tell us a little bit
40:57
about, you know, some some key communication pieces around that that stage.
41:02
Yeah, I mean, so, I mean something that I do with my
41:05
clients even now is that I meet with the business owners usually weekly or bi
41:08
weekly, and we're evaluating on a regular basis, how are things working,
41:14
what what you know? So I think it takes very take somebody. This
41:17
isn't for everybody, So you have to figure the right person too in your
41:20
organization if you're not that person, but to have candid conversations to elicit feedback
41:25
from them, that's important depending on you, depending on your on the client.
41:30
I've done this in a previous business when we were in a consulting firm
41:35
where we would have a third party come in and they would actually talk with
41:37
our clients and kind of so they would do kind of an interview for us
41:43
for the company and get feedback that way too. That's another good way to
41:46
cometimes. They won't tell you unfortunately, but they will tell a third party
41:51
or if you have some kind of survey or something like that that you can
41:53
get feedback from. I think that's super important, Charlie, to kind of
41:58
continue to evaluate how how you're performing, how you're how you're doing. Absolutely,
42:04
you know, so there's definitely lots of tools out there for that.
42:07
Uh. I want I would really encourage folks to do that. Something is
42:12
relatively simple, but it can be very powerful. Yeah. Absolutely, How
42:16
about you, Bill, what are some yeah, uh, some best practices
42:21
around retention for you? Well? Two, you know, I already mentioned
42:29
about my my days in the in the car business, and I'm I'm reminded
42:32
of an incident because I have no other incident that is more that that paints
42:38
a better picture of this sold a sold the customer on a on a pre
42:46
owned vehicle. Just to be fair, I won't say the what kind of
42:51
car it was. But one day after they after they made the purchase,
42:57
and of course in California, that's an as is purchase. You know that
43:00
it's guaranteed to be what it is, but not much more than that.
43:04
And while he was driving on the freeway freeway speeds, one of his you
43:09
joints snapped and and the tire swung out from under the car because that's what
43:17
it holds in place. You know, he could have rolled, he could
43:21
have he could have died theoretically from this, from this accident. And they
43:27
but he didn't, thankfully, no one was hurt. And but but he
43:31
towed he had the car towed to the dealership and and I found, you
43:38
know, somebody came and told me, hey, your client is here,
43:42
and uh, and this is what happened. And because I had a relationship
43:45
with the with the people in the back who were actually doing the work,
43:50
because I've done that too, and h but all the sales managers were telling
43:57
me leave this alone, do not talk to them, and I'm like,
44:00
no, I'm not going to do that. So I went back. I
44:02
talked to them. I help them navigate the sale, the not the sales,
44:07
the service department, getting everything, take square it away, you know,
44:12
helping them get everything they needed. And I still to this day have
44:16
conversations with these people about about things, you know, and just that uh,
44:24
you know, because I am I refer to it as embracing the fire.
44:30
You know, you have to walk through the coals with your with your
44:31
clients. No matter what they are, and help them navigate what what they're
44:37
going through, because that's the commitment you've made to help them with this issue.
44:43
And you know, and of course if you have opportunities to help them
44:46
with other issues, then that's great too, because that's how you build up
44:50
your referral partnerships. And you know, and and the loyalty, Yeah,
44:57
that's the final stage. Actually is is the most important of all. Like
45:01
you said, that's where that retention great phase turns into loyalty. And so,
45:08
uh, it sounds like from your story, Bill, you've really made
45:13
a friend there and somebody who's still in communication with you today. So tell
45:19
us a little bit about what that is worth, right in terms of having
45:22
a loyal customer that would be a promoter of your of who you are,
45:28
of your business, of your solutions. You know how that would turn into
45:36
maybe worth way more than than the hundreds or or even thousands that businesses are
45:40
spending on on social media advertising. Right, So tell us a little bit
45:45
about that. Well, it's it's everything. It's worth its weight in gold,
45:49
you know, especially in a position like mine where I have transitioned to
45:54
a different industry, you know, having having loyal customers, having loyal clients
46:01
from old industries, you know, help support me in the new industry.
46:07
And uh, you know, because people have other needs and know other people
46:13
and will help you along the way in that you need to you know,
46:16
you stuck. If you stick with them then and help them down the way,
46:22
they will stick with you and help you down the way. Right,
46:25
Yeah, what about you, David, what are some areas around loyalty and
46:30
and maybe between yeah, between retention loyalty. What about clients who maybe we
46:39
didn't really talk about this, but maybe clients that why not become that we
46:45
we find out is a bit toxic, right, like that demands more of
46:52
you than than maybe what you had agreed upon. And how do you handle
46:58
those type of situations? That a great, Well, that's a that's a
47:00
lot in there, and that kind of goes through our communication that we were
47:02
talking about last week. There's the there's a couple. The easiest way and
47:09
that if you have a client depends on your offer in the way that its
47:13
structured. Charlie, this is this is one I like a simple one.
47:16
If if if you have let's just say a subscription based or a reoccurring offer
47:22
like i'd say radiar prices. I mean not in a bad way, meaning
47:28
if you can, as you have new clients come in right, whatever your
47:30
offer is, as you have demand, you increase your prices, and then
47:35
you say to this person, hey, you know what, this is the
47:37
current rate now or and you're not just picking on them, You're this is
47:40
true, this is a you know, this is a great opportunity because they'll
47:45
probably say I'm out potentially if they feel like okay, because you've got other
47:50
people now hopefully you're doing good services that want you and they're knocking on you,
47:53
so you probably have them, so there's some lagging there. That would
47:57
be one of them I would do. That's that's kind of a non confrontational
48:02
one, but it's just kind of a factual one. Right. But as
48:07
you grow the business, I think a good business model you have to do
48:13
do be careful about. And I've talked about this in another live I did
48:15
just a few few days ago, about who you associate with if they're like
48:20
you said, if they're problematic. It's one thing I used to work in
48:23
the environmental consulting world, where legally they could do things against the law.
48:29
So you you could say you could. I mean, if they're doing something
48:30
like that, Charlie or violation. I mean, you guys have obviously with
48:34
your I T things, you have certain licenses and permits that say are licensed
48:39
crazy management. Right. But even even if they're not using the software correctly,
48:44
right, there's certain says you're going to use it this way properly,
48:46
right, and if you're not doing it that way or they're going around it,
48:50
they're doing some things and well you need to you can look. That's
48:52
why we have contracts. Honestly, as we look at that and say are
48:55
we in violation of our contracts? Oftentimes it's owners. Sometimes we have to
49:01
you know, Bill, you're gonna have to leave her in a minute.
49:04
And we appreciate you having here. Thanks so much. Appreciate yeah, Bell,
49:09
We appreciate it, Charli, and I'll wrap it up for the night
49:12
until next week. Bell, Yeah, yes, I see, Bill,
49:16
thank you. Yeah. I mean, Charlie and I have been in consulting
49:22
for a long time, and so there is there's that challenge of of those
49:29
folks that are taking a lot more time of us, and so we do
49:35
have to do triage about it. I would just really be really clear.
49:39
This is where you gotta be careful with a business order too. If you're
49:43
desperate for the money, that's not a bad place to be. I would
49:46
even say I don't need your money. I mean, I appreciate you being
49:51
here, but I that is I have I have other people I need to
49:55
take care of, and I want to I want to support you, but
49:59
I'm I'm not going to do it in a way that you know, an
50:01
unhealthy relationship, right, exactly. Yeah, And this is where this is
50:06
where it's like insultant. Some sometimes help you get your perspective. You're like,
50:09
I'm not quite sure if I'm seeing this right. What's my responsibility?
50:13
What's their responsibility? I'd say, you know, we talked about this early
50:15
on in multiple episodes, Right Charlie, are like, reach out for help,
50:19
don't go alone in this, get some get some outside perspective. You
50:23
know that's so valuable, and that's why we're here, any one of us
50:28
on this call that you guys are listening to this, anyone and in this
50:31
episode or previous episode, right Charlie are like, we're not charging you here,
50:35
just come and give us a message. We'll tell you if we can
50:37
help you or not? Right, yep, you know if you're stuck with
50:42
that, especially too, is this new. They may have a they may
50:45
have an IT consultant already, Charlie. They're like, look, I might
50:49
be able to help you. But if they're saying I just want to compare
50:52
or seat, you're like, right, you would say let me sure,
50:53
I'll look and I'll tell you if I can help you or not. Yeah,
50:57
you know, I've learned this from another insurance and my friend that does
51:00
insurance and sometimes he has people who'll look and evaluate their insurance from him and
51:04
he can't help them. He's like, you know what, I really can't
51:06
help you. But those people that he can't help, they can often prefer
51:10
him. People they're like, he didn't but he didn't help me necessarily directly,
51:15
but he you know, I didn't hire him, but he did help
51:17
me. And I think he's be a good asset. So, you know,
51:22
I think that's an important strategy. And this definitely is a bigger topic
51:25
which we should probably come back to, I think, Charlie with the group,
51:29
you know, come back as like client management boundaries. We've talked about
51:32
that in previous episodes, right with Curtis. You know it's not just employees,
51:37
it's clients too, you know. Yeah, Well, the other side
51:42
of the loyalty cline, which is the final stage, is a potential detractor,
51:46
right, somebody who actually canceled or terminated services with you. So how
51:53
do you what are some keys to your communication on that right and client stash
52:01
customer management when you're at that stage right where instead of loyalty, you're having
52:07
somebody who's departing and it could potentially be a detractor. So how do you
52:15
handle those situations? I think, you know, I kind of lump them
52:20
together with the same people that said no to me one night. We've give
52:22
them the offer, right, Charlie, they said no, I don't want
52:25
to I don't want to work with you. So but but but they at
52:30
some point they said yes, they want more information. So it's a different
52:32
path to me. It's like, think about your life cycle. So your
52:36
messaging is going to be different. So if you can move them, track
52:39
them in your list, wherever your your customer relationship management system, wherever you
52:44
do it, get them clear like okay, there are no and this is
52:46
where they either worked with us or they said they didn't work with us and
52:51
they said no. But but I would still keep messaging them, in my
52:54
opinion, Charlie, until they say I don't want to hear from you anymore,
53:00
right, as long as they they as long as they you know,
53:01
I would continue to message them because there may be a point later on where
53:06
like dang I made, I didn't work with them, and I stopped,
53:07
and you know what, I really need to go back, I really really
53:12
know. And we don't know when that's going to be. It could be
53:14
six months, a year, it could be two years, who knows.
53:16
But until they say stop, I don't want to hear from you, we're
53:20
breaking up, I would say continue to just it's just a different messaging,
53:23
right, right, like the drip campaign, right or the nurturing campaign get
53:30
value, Yeah, but it's specifically like you know, yeah, it's just
53:36
nurturing them. It's like it's just like a relationship. Look if if a
53:38
friend was if we have a friend and you know, they're just in a
53:42
different stage of life. You know, we've burnt up, right, And
53:45
I had friends that I went to high school with in college and I love
53:47
them and I don't see them very much anymore, but I still messages them
53:50
periodically to let them know I'm here thinking about them. They're not dead to
53:53
me, you know, just because we don't, you know, have regular
53:57
connections all the time, and there may be a time we're like, hey,
53:59
let's get it together, right, I think you've got to be That's
54:02
just my long term thing approach, Charlie. Yeah, you know, that's
54:08
not that hard to keep that messaging going. Yeah. And for sick,
54:14
sticky businesses like ours, where our management, our solution is very, very
54:19
involved in terms of what we're doing for our clients, being graceful and empathetic,
54:30
right and compassionate on the off boarding as well, and working with being
54:36
cooperative with the maybe whoever is taking over those responsibilities, right, whether it
54:42
be another company that's way cheaper or whatever the case, just be a decent
54:46
human being and do the right thing instead of being bitter and not responding and
54:51
and and and you know, because it's like you treated them so well when
54:58
they came on board, beat them to give them the same level of professionalism
55:02
when they depart you because they may, like you said, come back around
55:07
and and want to be your customer down the road. Who knows, I'll
55:12
put I'll add this in this because I think this is not business, but
55:15
this is actually personal. But I think it's completely relatable, Charlie. I've
55:19
been in a lot of uh because I've had my challenges in marriage and I've
55:22
had others in where I've seen people go to pass in divorce. They completely
55:29
obliterate their spouse and they're now the enemy and they make their left living hell
55:34
right, or they go the high road and they recognize that, hey,
55:37
I chose this person, I love, this person didn't work out. I'm
55:40
doing the best that I can to take care of myself and to take care
55:45
of them. Those people I love to be around and I appreciate where they're
55:49
coming in. And to be honest with you, I've seen marriages restored over
55:52
time, but in some cases because they did that. But the people that
55:57
literally obliterate them, that's it's Done's there's no chance of restoration, there's no
56:02
chance. You're lucky that they can even talk to each other. We get
56:07
children in the mix, it's even worse. So to your point, right,
56:10
Charlie, it's vital that we we care for those people that are in
56:17
our sphere of influence as long as we can and the best that we can
56:22
exactly. Yeah, all right, well let's end it there. Yeah,
56:27
we talked about care and celebrating. I think we hit some more on the
56:30
communication. For those that are listening to this, go back and hear the
56:32
communication code episode we just did last week, and then the business centric one
56:37
too. I really did enjoy that one, Charlie, because there's some similar
56:40
things in there. The reality is, like we're talking about these things,
56:45
there's so much to learn in the business cycle, and I'm so grateful that
56:49
you're here, Charlie. You know is you guys are listening to this wherever
56:52
you're listening to it. We love to bring these to you to bring value
56:57
and help you share them and encourage others. Subscribe to us because we are
57:00
on YouTube and we have it all on all the different platforms Apple, Amazon,
57:06
Spotify, whatever you like. Leave us a review too, because we'd
57:08
love to hear back from you guys as to what's resonating. It's super valuable
57:14
and important because we were bringing these folks together and candidly, if you're interested,
57:17
we have rotating guests in here. Let us know. We'd love to
57:22
hear your voice and perhaps we can have you on here in the Business round
57:25
Table podcast. We're going to have other business owners joining us this year in
57:30
twenty twenty four, because we like to just have different voices and hear different
57:34
perspectives. It's valuable I learned, Charlie learns. And so this week it
57:37
was we had a great four of us. Last week we had you know,
57:40
Curtis and Stacy and Luke on. So it's going to vary from week
57:43
to week, but I think that's exciting. And you guys can come back
57:45
and see who's going to be on on the next episode. You yeah,
57:51
it could be, you could be. Thanks so much Charlie for facilitating our
57:54
conversation here and we'll look forward to seeing everybody and next week. Thanks alls
58:00
great, have a good night,