Latest / You're Overqualified Podcast - Career and Leadership Strategies for Women / 123. How to Get Promoted When Your Manager Is Not in Your Corner

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123. How to Get Promoted When Your Manager Is Not in Your Corner · You're Overqualified Podcast - Career and Leadership Strategies for Women

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Hi, I'm Danny Tan, founder of She Belongs Here, leadership
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coach and podcast host of You're Overqualified.
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I'm here to give you that loving push and reminder that yes, you
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are overqualified and you absolutely belong here.
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I am first Gen. Asian, Latina and former VP of a
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billion dollar organization who went from being a sample
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coordinator to AVP with 11 promotions and 11 years with
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five career pivots who left it all behind to do this full time.
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Because I truly have experienced being the woman in the room
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wondering does she belong here? And I know I do now, and so do
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you. So I work with women who are
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crushing at execution, but suddenly realize that there is
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no like manual or guy when it comes to understanding how to
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manage people, influence, negotiate, understand what
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executive presence even means. And that's really where I
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commend. So we work together so that way
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I can help you feel prepared for the stuff that really no one
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prepares us for. So if that's the promotion
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conversation, the difficult manager, the unsupportive
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leadership, or maybe that moment you start to realize that you
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want to move from being an executor to being more strategic
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and visible and figuring out like what it actually takes to
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get there. That's how we work together.
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So if you're curious of what that's like, go to
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mywebsite@dannytan.com and we're going to discovery call to learn
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more about what it's like to work together.
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All right, awesome. Let's get into today's episode.
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All right, so today we're talking about how to get
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promoted when your manager is not in your corner.
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And I understand this from all these different levels when it
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comes to the women that I work with now, a lot of the times you
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may feel like, OK, I'm doing everything right.
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I get really positive feedback from everybody on my team, from
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all my cross functional partners.
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I just don't understand why my manager is not on the same page
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as me when it comes to getting promoted.
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And it's it's insane y'all, because one, it's really crazy
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to think that you're doing such amazing work and your manager
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for some reason is not going to be supportive of you.
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And the second thing is a lot of the times we're, I told that if
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I am just working hard and I'm super dedicated and I put all my
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effort and energy in, I will get the support that I need.
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I will get the promotion that I need, I will get the resources
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that I need. And a lot of the times that
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actually doesn't happen, which is super shocking and surprising
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to a lot of us, especially when we are raised either culturally
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or environmentally, that our work and dedication will be
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enough. And So what does it look like to
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try to succeed in an organization where your manager
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actually maybe is not the most supportive or isn't necessarily
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doing the right things for you in order to get you in that
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promotion or get you into advancement?
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We're going to talk about what it is that could potentially be
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the problem, what things you could action and how to not
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allow your manager not being supportive of you to be a
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blocker for your success. And so the first part that I
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wanted to talk about is like this myth of or like the
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thoughts of an advocate, an advocate, sponsors, mentors, we
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hear about all of it, right? And so when you start to realize
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that working hard and getting things done well more even above
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and beyond and overdoing does not naturally actually mean that
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your manager is going to support you.
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What does that actually mean, right.
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When it comes to having somebody advocate for us or sponsors or
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support us. And so a lot of the times we
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believe that our actions will speak loud enough that we will
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be rewarded. And I would love for that.
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So solely be the case. But what happens is, is that the
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promotion cycle to get promoted does not happen at your
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performance review. And I touched a little bit about
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this on a on a couple episodes before.
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We do not get promoted at the promotion cycle in the sense of
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this. If you have not had any
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promotion conversations prior to the promotion or the performance
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review, then yeah, it's it's it's hardly the time to really
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get a promotion at performance review time.
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You can bring it up, but usually these things are plans, months,
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if not years in advance. And so if you do not have
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alignment from your manager and having them, you know, really
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advocate for you, fight for you and support you, there's going
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to be a problem. And here's the biggest thing is
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that when the decision is made to promote you, there's lots of
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intricacies and layers that come into it.
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One, your manager has to make a case typically to their manager.
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So what we call it a skip level. So your manager's manager or
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your boss's boss, however you want to use that phrasing, they
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usually have to get that approved.
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Sometimes they have to get finance to approve it.
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Sometimes they have to get HR to approve it.
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Sometimes they have to get the CEO to approve it.
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And so understanding that means that it's not just about your
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manager knowing that you're doing a good job.
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So if they're unsupportive or aloof, you have to also make
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sure that everybody else knows that they that you're doing a
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good job. So it's figuring out what is the
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strategy to get other people to advocate and push for your
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promotion. So let's break it down.
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So how to get promoted without waiting for your manager
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support. So like let's say the two of
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you, you and your manager at all.
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Then I've had multiple clients who are at odds with their
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manager and all honesty, like sometimes their manager just
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doesn't know how to manage. And they are they have no ill
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feelings towards their employee, towards my client, but they just
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are kind of clueless when it comes to how to be a manager.
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That's really a popular situation that happens.
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And the other is that they're just not supportive.
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And So what I want you to do instead of waiting for your
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manager to either A, learn how to be a manager or B, become
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supportive and care about what it is that you're you're doing
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there in your development. I want you to figure out how
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your manager is just one voice in a much larger conversation.
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And that what's important is to make sure you get other voices
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that understand the work that you're doing and be able to
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speak on your behalf. And so the first step, which is
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super crucial, which I tell every single client to do
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regardless of your manager is supportive or not, is to build a
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skip level relationship ASAP. So what does that mean?
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Because not all industries use the phrase skip level.
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Skip level is your boss's boss. It does not matter if you are in
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the profit nonprofit, whatever space it is, you should always
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have a relationship with your boss's boss.
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And that is whether you're getting a promotion or not.
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So yeah, even if you're an individual contributor and
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you're like, I don't need to worry about, you know, building
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relationships outside of myself or I'm not worried about
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promotion. Listen, you always want to make
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sure you don't have one person being the keeper of the keys to
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your success and your future. You also never want to have one
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person only have the exposure and visibility of the work that
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you do, right? The more people who have touch
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points and understanding of what you do, the stickiness you have
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in the organization, the sticker you are, the harder it is to
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ignore you. The harder it is to not see your
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value, the harder it is to get rid of you.
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So whether you are ready for motion in this exact moment or
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you're planning something for the future, you should be having
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meetings with your boss's boss monthly or quarterly, it does
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not matter. But if you have never had a
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conversation with them one-on-one, that's a problem.
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And the same thing is going to be with cross functional
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leaders. So it does not just need to be
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your boss's boss, it could be leaders from other departments
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that you work with. And these are important because
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when it comes to them having leadership conversations and
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executive meetings, they're going to say your name because
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you have established a relationship with them.
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They understand that what you're working on, you're talking about
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the projects that you're doing, what you're focusing on, what
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your goals are, and they can help relay that message too.
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So there's going to be a 000 surprises of what it is you've
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been working on and what it is that you want to do.
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So you need to set these up, whether they're monthly or
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quarterly, I do not care. Set them up.
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And if you're like, what do I talk about?
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The things that you talk about will be understanding what their
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goals are, what their focus is, how you can work together, what
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you're focusing on, what you want to do.
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This is a lot of things that I talk about in private coaching
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with my private clients. We were talking through, OK,
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what big stakeholder conversation is coming up?
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Who's the executive or leader that you're meeting with?
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Here are the different things that you could essentially talk
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to this specific person about. Here's some custom questions for
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this. This is what we talked about
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because it's an important skill to learn for life.
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It's not just like a one time conversation.
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These are skill sets that you're developing for your career and
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for your future, and so it's important that you have this for
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the future set up for yourself. It's also really important to
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make your results visible beyond your direct team.
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Time and time again, I've heard I get such great feedback from
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my team. My team thinks I'm amazing at
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what I do. They say that I do so well on
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all these projects. I'm detail oriented, I'm very
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collaborative, I'm super organized.
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I'm a great project manager. I get things done on time.
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I get things done early. I create new systems.
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Listen, if it only is your direct team that knows that and
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no other person knows that beyond your direct team and
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beyond your direct manager, what is that going to do for you?
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That's the question that I have for you.
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If your goals are to move up in an organization, then the people
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who are in the organization must know what it is that you're
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doing outside of your direct team.
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Because your direct team and less are the only people that
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are going to be responsible for you getting promoted or moving
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up. Then other people need to know,
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right? So again, that's when you're
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having those cross functional meetings.
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That's when you're having that skip level meeting.
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So everyone else can also understand those meetings are
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not just about like, look at me. It's about this is what I've
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been focusing on. This is what works.
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This is where we got stuck. This is where we need more help.
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And that way it's not just about the problems that are going on,
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but also about the things that you did do that went well.
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And that's how you create visibility for yourself.
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So it's something that I'm also typically doing with my clients
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of, OK, where are you, for example, doing like a month end
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recap of what worked of what you did for the month or what are
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certain projects that you did that you're doing a mini case
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study on talking about? OK, this is what we tested, this
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is what we trialed out. This is what was successful.
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How are you keeping the receipts on your results and not just
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keeping it to your team, but doing a share out, right.
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And that is also very pivotal because you're essentially
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collecting the receipts to create the case for your
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promotion, not just for your manager, but for your cross
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functional teams and your cross functional leaders.
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All right. So the other thing is if your
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manager is not supportive, don't let them tell the narrative of
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your story. Don't let them own your career
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story. So if your manager is not
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supportive, the best way to write your story of what your
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career is, the work that you're doing and represent yourself
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accurately is to start to speak to it yourself.
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And you do that by sharing executive updates, setting up
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cross functional meetings. We were talking about your work
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going ahead and trying to do a debrief with your leadership
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team on what it is that you're doing.
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Every center single interaction that you have with a leader, a
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cross functional partner, an executive leader, where you're
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sharing the work that you've done is a way that you are
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owning the narrative of your work versus letting it be
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beholden to just your manager. And that is how you are very
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intentional and strategic about how you position your work and
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your impact. And so this is very important,
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again, because outside of promotions, this is how we
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position ourselves when it comes to applying for new roles,
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getting new jobs, how we speak to ourselves, how we network.
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And it's not about being political.
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It's about talking about the work that you've done and owning
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it. And if you're like, Oh my gosh,
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that feels super uncomfortable. This is what I want you to
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understand. When we put good people who care
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and who work hard in positions of power and leadership, we make
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a change. We make a change of what
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leadership can look like. We make a change of what
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leadership can be like. And then we have the leverage
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and power and ability to hire more good and amazing people and
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develop them. It's an honor and a duty to
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speak about what it is that you do and to collect the receipts
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and to talk about how amazing it is the work that you're doing
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and your team is doing because it is going to help you get
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leverage to move up to then help others.
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That is what I built my career you're on and what I love to
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share with everyone else. I think we think, oh, it's so
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selfish to talk about the work that I've done.
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It's so selfish to try to ask for more, to negotiate for a
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promotion, to negotiate for a higher pay increase.
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It's not selfish. How can you leverage and help
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your community if you are not able to have the resources for
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yourself? Once we are resourced, we give
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that back immediately, especially in our community.
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So I just want you to like, remember that piece when you're
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thinking about, oh, I'm, I'm being so selfish or I'm
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gloating, or I'm talking about myself.
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How do you expect to get yourself up to create leverage
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and resources to then give to others?
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Period. All right, so you know, this is
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a thing that I want you to kind of remember of.
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I have had one client before who their manager was really nice,
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but just couldn't move the needle.
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Like they just were not understanding what it took to
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help her get promoted. And so even in the sense of like
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your manager's nice, but maybe they're like aloof or just new
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to management, they're not clear.
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So she realized is that like we created a promotion strategy for
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her promotion plan is what I call them.
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And what we did was we analyzed who else needed to understand
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what work she was doing. So besides her skip level, but
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also other cross functional partners.
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So by us being able to do that, she was able to talk to them and
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then showcase her work in there. Actually she found a mentor
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outside her manager within her organization that helped her
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create a plan. OK, what actually needed to get
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done in order to get that promotion in and who she need to
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talk to and create a visibility around.
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And she got promoted within six months.
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And so just knowing that that is possible, I have another client
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who in the nonprofit space, she also had a manager who just
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honestly did not want to get her promoted.
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She wanted her to stay in her lane.
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So that way the manager could benefit from her staying in the
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same exact position. And so by her meeting with other
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leaders, she actually found a promotion on a different team
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with a new manager. And so she was able to move.
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That happened within three sessions of us working together.
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So I just want you to know that if you have been like sitting
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and thinking and ruminating on how to make a move out of your
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current position, the more we think on a ruminate is like it's
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not going to move us forward. The best thing you need when it
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comes to promotion is taking an action plan.
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And I'm saying this as somebody who achieved 11 promotions in 11
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years. I was a sample coordinator.
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I went to AVP in the course of eleven years, right?
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And that was not by like just working hard and crossing my
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fingers. I had to be very strategic every
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single year on how to move up. And that was critical.
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And the ways that I did was, was developing a strategy.
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So I would target what it is that I, what it is that I would
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want to go for. What was the title?
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What was the compensation? What was the kind of roles and
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responsibility, what kind of work that I wanted to.
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I would scope that out fully, which is what I developed my
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promotion plan, the thing that I work on with my clients.
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And then once I did that, I figured out strategically, who
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did I need to talk to in order to implement this and to make it
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happen, to execute it. What were the touch points I had
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to do? What was the follow up or the
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difficult conversations. So when it comes to the ability
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of understanding how to communicate your value, how to
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influence others, how to be able to show up and be visible, how
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it is to build relationships and network, how it is to negotiate
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and help those conversations, how it is to have difficult
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conversations. These are all things that I had
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to do as somebody who was the 1st in their family to graduate
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college and their immediate family is very mixed.
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Identity of being Asian, Latina, born in America, working in
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corporate America and a mostly male dominated space of
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leadership, right. And as somebody who was
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painfully and still is painfully terrified of being visible,
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believe it or not, even as a podcast host, speaker and all
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other things. And So what I tell you is I do
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this with my clients who also are in a similar space where
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they are the 1st in their family to do something in this way
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where they maybe don't have the mentors or resources there.
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And that's the work that we do together is to have a thought
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partner who's not just thinking about it with you, but who's
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actually lived it and experienced it first hand, as
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well as somebody who helps our community and others do that as
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well. And So what I want you to
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understand is your manager is not the end all be all and the
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ceiling for you. That is one person in a much
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larger system that has been created, and there is a way to
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understand how to build influence in an organization and
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to not be dependent on one person's opinion of you.
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And that is a thing that changes everything is when you realize
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that that one person is not solely responsible for
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everything that is beholden to your future and that your
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promotion does not come from this one person alone.
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It comes from a room full of people understanding your work
15:47
and your name and what it is that you do and that you have
15:50
already been building this case for yourself.
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You just need to make sure that all the right people, not just
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one person, is seeing it. So I just want you to not shrink
15:58
yourself to one person or to the limitations of that because
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you've built so much more for yourself and you are so
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overqualified. And that's what's really
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important. So if you're somebody who knows
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they are ready to get promoted and they are tired of waiting
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and they want the support of what that looks like to make it
16:15
happen, a plan, a partner, somebody who's actually lived
16:18
that experience, then I would say go to
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mywebsite@dannytan.com, that's DANITA n.com, and book a
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discovery call on what it's like to work together.
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On that call, it's 60 minutes. The 1st 30 minutes we're talking
16:29
about your goals, what it's like to work together, how we can
16:32
support you and what it would be like to be in coaching together.
16:35
Typically, I work together with my private clients in either a
16:37
three month or six month segment.
16:39
It depends on what your goals are and what you're trying to
16:41
focus on. And so I always give a
16:42
recommendation, but ultimately you get to choose for yourself
16:45
or what that would look like. But the biggest thing is that
16:47
even if you have an idea or an itch that you know you want
16:51
more, but you're not 100% sure how to get there or what it is,
16:55
it's OK. You can still book a call
16:56
because that's what my responsibility is as a coach.
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I can help you outline that. I've had clients who have said,
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I know I want more, but I'm not sure what it is.
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And they book a call and we figure out like, oh, this is
17:06
actually what they want. And we create a plan for and we
17:08
work together. So you don't always have to have
17:10
everything like ticked and tied in a bow before you put a call.
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I think that's like the big mystery behind it.
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So go ahead and do that. And I just want you to know that
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just because your manager is not in your corner, don't worry.
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I am and I used to be the best boss and I still am an amazing
17:23
manager when it comes to those things.
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So let me be your mentor when it comes to your career and I will
17:27
catch you on the next episode. Have a good one.