Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Si Hart about his choice of The Twin Dilemma (3/4)

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Talks to Si Hart about his choice of The Twin Dilemma (3/4) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:23
  None. A hamster with a blump.
• 0:34
  Pen knife for doing. Quicker, quicker, quicker one.
• 0:40
  When you're not really mad and trying to kill me, that is, and
• 0:44
  look at you now. What do you mean?
• 0:48
  I never saw anyone who loved himself so much with less
• 0:51
  reason. You've forgotten all about
• 0:53
  Fraser. By the time you start
• 0:55
  congratulating yourself, he'll probably be dead.
• 1:02
  Welcome back to a hamster with a.
• 1:04
  Blunt Penknife, The Fraser Baiting Commentary Podcast.
• 1:10
  I hope this will be in his top 60.
• 1:13
  Oh, I hope so. He's a trial of a time on in
• 1:15
  there so far. Well, no, no.
• 1:17
  Well, actually, no. He did say that was the only
• 1:19
  Colin that was making it so. Oh no.
• 1:21
  Seriously, I'm afraid. So stop.
• 1:24
  Reading now then. I don't want to know.
• 1:25
  So no joking. So we were just having a an
• 1:31
  interesting conversation between episodes about whether you can
• 1:38
  still like something even though it's not very good.
• 1:42
  I think the answer to that question is yes, because I think
• 1:47
  some of the shoddier Doctor Who productions are delirious to
• 1:51
  watch for that very reason. Yes, And it's sometimes the most
• 1:58
  brilliantly made stories that are hugely admired are not the
• 2:04
  ones that you would pick off the shelf on a Tuesday night when
• 2:06
  you're feeling a bit low and. What would you pick off the
• 2:10
  shelf on a Tuesday night? Oh God.
• 2:13
  Well, you know, mate, it'd be Nightmare of Eden or something
• 2:16
  like that. Or something.
• 2:17
  That was the stones of blood. Delta and the Banner, man.
• 2:21
  Yeah, something that just. Battlefield Tile, Yeah, Silver
• 2:26
  nemesis. Oh wait, we've got to stop.
• 2:28
  That's nearly the whole. Of the.
• 2:30
  Sylvester McCoy era. Hang on.
• 2:34
  Android. Asian, Yeah.
• 2:36
  Androids of Tara. Mind you, that is just glorious.
• 2:40
  Full stop. Yeah, the chase.
• 2:43
  Oh, the chase. And of course time in the Ronnie
• 2:46
  Well, of course, you know because sometimes you just want
• 2:49
  something that is it's fun that you could just get carried along
• 2:53
  with that you don't have to concentrate on.
• 2:56
  And I know you've said in the past about Heaven Sent that you
• 3:01
  greatly admire the episode, but it's not one that you would pick
• 3:06
  off the shelf and watch. It is a stunningly made,
• 3:10
  unwritten piece of television, and it bores the fuck out of me.
• 3:15
  Like you know, I've never, I've never come home.
• 3:18
  But I'm tired. And go oh, I really want to
• 3:20
  watch that intellectual exercise and dealing with grief tonight,
• 3:25
  Doctor Who. Walking around, looking.
• 3:27
  Moody for an hour instead. I could watch, you know.
• 3:30
  Tom Baker being bold and brilliant, you know?
• 3:33
  Yeah. And that's perfectly reasonable.
• 3:37
  And I think again, a lot of discourse from, from fans of
• 3:44
  Doctor Who, it's very black and white and I think it's well,
• 3:51
  it's bad. So I can't enjoy it like or.
• 3:56
  I think also sometimes, particularly when you're
• 3:59
  younger, you have this thing about wanting to like all the
• 4:04
  all the things that you should like.
• 4:06
  Yeah. And.
• 4:08
  And you're not going to admit that actually, sneakily, you put
• 4:11
  on the twin dilemma last night and thoroughly enjoyed it when
• 4:14
  actually you want to say, well, do you know what I was watching?
• 4:17
  Revelation of the Daleks because it's so edgy and it's so dark
• 4:20
  and Doctor Who should be dark or.
• 4:22
  Yeah, or or something like that, you know?
• 4:24
  And I think there's a lot of that still in in fandom,
• 4:27
  particularly. I think as people get older they
• 4:31
  stop giving a fuck, to be honest.
• 4:33
  Yeah, well, yeah, I think you. My phrase is you get over
• 4:36
  yourself, you know? Yeah, absolutely.
• 4:37
  Past that sort of Moody teenage years where you don't like
• 4:40
  anything and then you you start looking back and going actually
• 4:43
  that stuff I was really embarrassed by.
• 4:46
  That's fun. Doesn't matter anymore.
• 4:47
  I acknowledge that everything you've said about this story is
• 4:50
  true. It is a series of ill judged
• 4:52
  decisions and it is not the template for what the show
• 4:57
  should have been doing at this point.
• 4:59
  And yeah, I really enjoyed watching it.
• 5:03
  Yeah, so. And isn't that actually what
• 5:07
  it's all about? It's.
• 5:08
  A piece of entertainment, isn't it?
• 5:10
  Yeah, and if you enjoy something, then you shouldn't
• 5:13
  feel bad for enjoying it. And it took me a lot of years to
• 5:18
  realize that that actually, do you know what I like, what I
• 5:21
  like? And it doesn't matter what
• 5:23
  anyone else thinks. I.
• 5:26
  I do also wonder, though, you and I obviously have both fallen
• 5:29
  in love with Fraser Gregory, the most contrary man on the planet.
• 5:34
  If there's a story with an I'll reputation, he'll take hold of
• 5:38
  it and shake it until he finds 100 good things to say about it.
• 5:41
  So I think you and I have started looking at sort of
• 5:44
  challenging our own opinions of story.
• 5:47
  We haven't enjoyed in the past I think.
• 5:49
  And I think that's also a good thing because, you know, be a
• 5:54
  very opinionated fan. Every fan, I think is
• 5:56
  opinionated because you can't help it.
• 5:59
  Because you have things that you like and things that you want to
• 6:02
  shout that you like. And you have things that you
• 6:04
  don't like and you really want to shout about those things you
• 6:07
  don't like when other people do like them.
• 6:10
  And I think there's a lot of that, that sort of 1 upmanship
• 6:15
  of well, I can't believe you like Nightmare of Eden.
• 6:18
  It's so awful. It's the worst story ever.
• 6:21
  Let me shit on your day because because I can.
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  And I think there's a hell of a lot of that.
• 6:27
  And I just think, do you know what?
• 6:28
  It doesn't matter. But the joy of this discourse is
• 6:32
  obviously I'm going to come away from this having seen it through
• 6:35
  your eyes. You're going to go away from
• 6:36
  this having seen it through my eyes.
• 6:38
  Yeah, I'm probably going to be a little more critical about this
• 6:41
  and you might be probably going to engage with it a bit better.
• 6:44
  Yeah, and and people listening to it who have got that all
• 6:47
  their own preconceived might come and see something different
• 6:51
  themselves. They'll listen to both points.
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  Of you. And they'll probably take a
• 6:54
  little bit of each, yeah. And.
• 6:58
  Austin and you know, and so there's something, there's
• 7:01
  something rather fun about talking about stories that are
• 7:04
  really divisive because people have very strong opinions about
• 7:08
  them. But I'm picking those opinions
• 7:10
  and why those opinions formed. That's what I love doing in on.
• 7:16
  Hamster is talking about why these stories mean so much to
• 7:20
  me, or why these stories don't necessarily hit for me.
• 7:25
  And what it what Doctor Who is to me is something that would be
• 7:32
  completely different to to Fraser or you or Pete or Conrad
• 7:36
  or or Hannah or whoever. Because we're all coming with
• 7:41
  from a really different perspective.
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  And that's that's the fun thing and that's why you can have
• 7:47
  these amazing conversations. The worst ones are I don't like
• 7:51
  it. It's shit because you're not
• 7:54
  getting why you're never getting the why you're never.
• 7:58
  I'm picking why it is. You don't get on with something
• 8:01
  and that's the most fascinating thing to do.
• 8:04
  You anyone can come on and say, Oh well, that's bad, I don't
• 8:07
  like it. But talking about why it doesn't
• 8:10
  hit for you is right. That, I think, has become the
• 8:13
  modus operandi of of hamster. Why?
• 8:17
  Why? Mostly actually why it does work
• 8:20
  for you. Occasionally I'll throw in a A
• 8:23
  Wedding of River Song. Why is this?
• 8:27
  No shit, yeah. But that's interesting as well.
• 8:30
  I think the worst sort of conversations is, and we've
• 8:33
  talked about this, is that I'm better than this conversations
• 8:37
  I'm deeming to talk about this despite the fact it's beneath
• 8:40
  me. I hate those conversations.
• 8:43
  Well, go and watch something else then.
• 8:45
  You know exactly. If you're not, it comes back to
• 8:49
  the old Eric, Say would line unexpectedly if you stop
• 8:53
  enjoying it. Give it up.
• 8:56
  You know the. One thing I refuse to do is to
• 8:58
  give up talking to you and the world right now.
• 9:02
  The twin dilemma. Should we watch 3 or two
• 9:05
  episodes? Otherwise, this will be the
• 9:08
  longest commentary for a four part of story on record.
• 9:12
  Well then I intro this, so it's your turn.
• 9:15
  OK, right. In 5432, one let's go back in
• 9:21
  time. Oh.
• 9:24
  No. Sighs.
• 9:25
  Watch stopped. Oh dear.
• 9:30
  Do you know what even she even manages to do?
• 9:32
  That cliffhanger crying convincingly.
• 9:35
  And that's a that's a hard that's a hell of a lot.
• 9:37
  Yeah. I but I'm going to give Colin
• 9:41
  his due, and he hasn't had one yet.
• 9:43
  But he is one of the masters of cliffhanger acting.
• 9:46
  Oh. Yes, he knows how to play that
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  loud. I think we get it next at the
• 9:54
  end of this episode. Don't.
• 9:55
  We shouldn't pretend you don't know that's coming up.
• 9:58
  It's the very first close up on Colin.
• 10:04
  We'll be seeing that again. So.
• 10:07
  I I am convinced this is where the twin dilemma really starts
• 10:12
  working, because what you get in this episode is Colin, Nicola
• 10:16
  and Kevin McNally all coming together now to to get the twins
• 10:20
  back the Foil Mess store. They get some really fun, witty
• 10:26
  exchanges as well in the Times, and we'll talk about some of the
• 10:29
  dialogue when we do. I think Colin's Doctor has
• 10:34
  pretty much solidified by this point and we're going to get a
• 10:37
  few more moments where he's a bit bit off, but pretty much
• 10:43
  he's there. The next sort of big shift I
• 10:45
  think is mysterious Planet is where they really have softened
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  out that acid tongue, and he's very gentle with Perry and
• 10:54
  they're in the forest, he's twirling the umbrella and
• 10:57
  they're just having a lovely time together.
• 11:00
  But yeah, for, for, for, certainly for the next season.
• 11:04
  He's full. This is it, isn't it?
• 11:07
  I'd I like I do like 6 with a bite I'll do and we're going to
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  do attack on the Cybermen and he has a few moments in that oh he
• 11:18
  does. Where he's beating up policemen
• 11:21
  and he's got a gun and you know, it's quite hard on people.
• 11:25
  Was it handful of heartbeats to a Time Lords?
• 11:27
  I love that line. So do I.
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  Oh look away. Comes in look as smug as
• 11:34
  arseholes. Yeah, but stroking his cat
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  badge? I love that.
• 11:40
  It's odd because from this point the 6th Doctor moves into the
• 11:48
  comic strip in DWM, and that's the 6th Doctor that I loved,
• 11:53
  because those comic strips were absolutely phenomenal.
• 11:58
  You've got beautiful John Ridgway artwork all the way
• 12:01
  through, which gives it a cohesion and sudden.
• 12:04
  And the storytelling was magnificent and the Doctor was
• 12:08
  the strong, loud moral force that he was on TV but with
• 12:14
  rubbish as his companion. He was just something else
• 12:17
  entirely. And that's the 6th Doctor for
• 12:20
  me. That's the 6th Doctor era that I
• 12:22
  loved just. The most extraordinary artwork,
• 12:26
  yes. And I think John Ridgeway is
• 12:30
  still my favorite comic strip artist to ever work on Doctor
• 12:33
  Who. It's just extraordinary,
• 12:36
  beautiful, imaginative, that's. What I was going to say is like,
• 12:40
  it's not just visual creativity, is it?
• 12:42
  It's the imagination and the writing as well.
• 12:46
  Yeah, and it's kind of. What it's not?
• 12:47
  Here, maybe that's what we should do for book club.
• 12:54
  Oh yeah, you should do Voyager, the Voyager graphic novel.
• 12:58
  I'd love to do that. What a good idea as you are.
• 13:02
  Anyway, that's a discussion for another time.
• 13:04
  I like it. A minute ago.
• 13:06
  They just went. They just did.
• 13:07
  The Lieutenant left Tenant joke, which is a very Colin joke.
• 13:12
  It's a small peek into what that dynamic would have been like,
• 13:15
  how they could see it exactly. So it's again, it's the two
• 13:19
  against three dynamic can can really work.
• 13:23
  I had this growing up because I was one of three children and so
• 13:26
  generally 2 would side against one because you're never ever
• 13:32
  going to be on the right page and I wondered, variation.
• 13:36
  I did wonder why you were so comfortable with me and Fraser,
• 13:39
  you know, because what happens is an opinions dropped.
• 13:43
  And then it's basically right. Which two of us are going to
• 13:45
  agree with this? Who's.
• 13:47
  Going to be the outlier. It's my childhood in a nutshell.
• 13:51
  We do it. My brother was old enough to
• 13:53
  argue back and we still do it now.
• 13:55
  We were doing it on Saturday when when my brother was
• 13:59
  criticising my trainers and my sister was sticking up for me,
• 14:02
  which is quite unusual and you just that's how we are.
• 14:06
  That's a good dynamic, though. And it is here.
• 14:09
  And and because they're all written a little gentler than
• 14:12
  they were earlier in the story, it's it's funny.
• 14:15
  Yeah. And they're sat here working
• 14:18
  things out together and they've all got different viewpoints
• 14:20
  that can feed in. And so this dynamic can really
• 14:23
  work. This lion.
• 14:25
  Here he goes. What is it?
• 14:27
  He wants to save his people and I I think I cannot help him to
• 14:32
  do it. Whatever made him think that he
• 14:35
  must be faced with some unimaginable disaster, that's
• 14:38
  unhinged his mind. Man oh man, this is the
• 14:41
  arrogance. Of Colin I love.
• 14:43
  Yes, he. Absolutely knows he's the most
• 14:47
  important person in every single room, you know?
• 14:49
  Yeah, exactly. He's got that Pertwyesque, Kind
• 14:52
  of. So funny.
• 14:53
  I'm the cleverest person in the room.
• 14:55
  But actually every so often someone else sees something that
• 14:59
  he hasn't seen and undercuts it. Which is what I love in the
• 15:03
  poetry era, once they work out that actually Joe can bring
• 15:07
  something, that that swaps him, swaps him round and makes him
• 15:12
  think, oh, do you know, hang on. I think it was when they get it
• 15:14
  right here as well, like he comes in.
• 15:16
  All bullshit and then. Someone sort of punctures his
• 15:20
  arrogance. A line you know, remember.
• 15:23
  When he goes. My son, the Mark, I'm Avip, you
• 15:27
  know, he's like. At the end he goes, What's that?
• 15:30
  Fella say to him. Oh, this eccentric man, he goes.
• 15:34
  Eccentric. How preposterous.
• 15:38
  Oh, So what is this all about? Embolism.
• 15:43
  It's quite nasty. Oh.
• 15:45
  It's quite funny. And also oh.
• 15:52
  Nobody can see this besides doing a grand impression of that
• 15:55
  actor. Oh, you have to put the video up
• 15:57
  of that. I will, I will.
• 15:59
  I mean, I love the line though. Where it goes.
• 16:01
  What is it? Bubbles go well in.
• 16:04
  What's the line? It's an episode four champagne
• 16:08
  or something. Champagne and something else as
• 16:10
  well. Yeah, it's a funny line, but
• 16:13
  fuck me. I mean, that poor actor is
• 16:15
  having to stand there and wobble about and scream.
• 16:21
  I think the we haven't actually talked about the condoms.
• 16:24
  I think the makeup is actually pretty good.
• 16:27
  Really good, yeah. The feather hair is is
• 16:30
  beautifully done and I love the the feather beard, so I don't
• 16:33
  know how the poor actors dealt with that all the time, but.
• 16:36
  It's it's the cheater people affect, you know, long shot.
• 16:38
  They look a bit comical when you get close to them and you can
• 16:41
  see the effort that's gone in. Yeah, absolutely.
• 16:44
  I think think that's for a story that is often derided for its
• 16:48
  production values. They get that right.
• 16:51
  Well, I think later on as well when we when we go underground
• 16:55
  in Jaconda, the lights come down the tunnel.
• 16:57
  I feel, I feel like the production does pull off certain
• 17:00
  things, yeah. And this shot in in the quarry
• 17:03
  with the with the, with the trees sort of looking barren and
• 17:10
  broken and and everything looking cold and horrible is
• 17:14
  actually really nicely done, very well framed with that blue
• 17:19
  sky above here. That's very personal about
• 17:23
  Colin. Saying he's very well, McNally
• 17:27
  goes. In the commentary he goes.
• 17:29
  I was so excited, he goes. Not only do I get to go to the
• 17:33
  BBC alien planet Quarry, but I got to come out of the Tardis,
• 17:38
  he goes. It was.
• 17:39
  I'd lucked out that day. He's so.
• 17:44
  Great. Yeah, and him go.
• 17:46
  Here's the first moment of Colin having that, that sadness and
• 17:55
  and melancholy at seeing the destruction around him.
• 18:02
  It's really, really good. What's really strange is almost
• 18:08
  almost because they made the poor decision to make him shout
• 18:12
  a lot. You know, repeat his words,
• 18:14
  things like that. It makes those moments where
• 18:17
  he's quiet and subtle and poetic.
• 18:19
  And what was the word again? Celestial sadness.
• 18:24
  Celestial sad. So like the bit where he says
• 18:27
  never more butterfly in the two doctrines or planets, nothing
• 18:30
  goes. Stars perish in mysterious
• 18:33
  planet. It makes those moments really
• 18:35
  here, Yeah, because he's not like that all the time.
• 18:39
  And it's that contrast that's important.
• 18:42
  I always say it's like like me dropping an F bomb.
• 18:45
  It's always well timed because no one ever expects it from me.
• 18:48
  Maybe I got that from Colin. Had it a few times on a hamster.
• 18:58
  But I think as well this story lamented as it is, I think a lot
• 19:02
  of people can acknowledge that Colin's acting in the face of
• 19:05
  Asmale's death in the last episode.
• 19:07
  That is a defining moment and beautiful.
• 19:10
  Stunningly acted by both of them exactly because.
• 19:16
  The madness that's occurred 2 seconds earlier, you know, with
• 19:19
  the face in all of that position.
• 19:22
  So Maurice Denham haven't really talked about him because he is
• 19:29
  possibly this the other central guest role in this story and
• 19:34
  gets sort of the most to do other than than Kevin and he's
• 19:40
  really great. Yeah.
• 19:43
  But I think he's well characterized as well.
• 19:45
  Yeah, I think, yeah. Actually the character is nicely
• 19:47
  written and he plays it beautifully.
• 19:51
  All of the all of the lines sort of suggest a sort of deposed
• 19:57
  ruler that is tired and just wants this all over with.
• 20:02
  Yeah, that he's got to go along with this for his people because
• 20:05
  he hasn't got, he hasn't got the energy to fight.
• 20:09
  And yet you know, you and I have watched Underworld and that.
• 20:13
  Is that the minions in that are basically that, aren't they sort
• 20:16
  of there? It's gone on too long and they
• 20:19
  and it's boring as hell. Whereas Maurice Denham's great
• 20:22
  to watch. Yeah, and that's.
• 20:24
  Take some skill to get that right.
• 20:26
  I'm not for sure. It's yeah, he he just makes him
• 20:33
  so likable in the face of absurdity and because he's
• 20:38
  essentially for the first episode or so played almost like
• 20:42
  he's the villain of the piece. And so you get these little
• 20:46
  layers sort of being peeled away and sort of work this out.
• 20:51
  And the fact that he's very kind to the twins and things like
• 20:56
  that, you can see that there is something else in this character
• 20:59
  that you you don't necessarily see straight away.
• 21:02
  I think that's quite nicely characterized.
• 21:06
  Plays with the cliche that I criticize so often.
• 21:09
  And I always cite Coach Sharma as the worst example of the the
• 21:14
  the coming good at the end and sacrificing yourself for the
• 21:18
  greater good. But it works like gangbusters in
• 21:21
  this story. One, because we've got to know
• 21:23
  him and we like him. Two, because he's an old friend
• 21:26
  of the doctors, you know. And three, because he's just
• 21:29
  been through something absolutely horrific, having his
• 21:31
  mind taken over. Yeah.
• 21:33
  So it's sort of like a it's a clever thing he does by forcing
• 21:36
  Mesto into his head, but also it's really tragic.
• 21:39
  And then you get the Doctor's reaction to it.
• 21:41
  Just although that works. Brilliant.
• 21:43
  And that's in a story that isn't lauded by people.
• 21:46
  There are there are good things in this story.
• 21:50
  I'll just say Perry's got to the point now where she started
• 21:53
  saying, oh, stop feeling sorry for yourself.
• 21:56
  And he goes. Self pity is all I have left.
• 22:00
  I believe I've said that to you once or twice.
• 22:05
  And it's interesting. Is it because Maurice Denham
• 22:07
  comes back and plays a fairly similar character in The
• 22:11
  Paradise of Death? Yes, I believe everybody comes
• 22:14
  back in the paradise of death. Well, everyone, yeah, basically,
• 22:17
  yeah. And plays a similar characters
• 22:18
  to characters they played before.
• 22:20
  But he's not. And he he he has a similar
• 22:24
  dignity, but I don't think he's as good as he is here.
• 22:28
  Does he stand out here, though, just because he's?
• 22:30
  Surrounded by such dross. Maybe that's it, because I've
• 22:36
  No, it's not even. Even with my doco reviews, I
• 22:38
  said there's four central performances here.
• 22:40
  Colin, Nicola, Kevin. And Morris.
• 22:43
  And they anchor this story. Yes.
• 22:48
  Like, some Doctor Who stories don't have one.
• 22:50
  Great performance in them. Yeah, like, exactly.
• 22:52
  And yeah, exactly. Underworld.
• 22:55
  Going to the centre of the Sardis?
• 22:57
  Oh God, yeah. Nightmare.
• 23:00
  And the Chia I love the Chamberlain.
• 23:03
  The Chamberlain's just turned up here and he's played by Seymour
• 23:06
  Green, who's back after playing a very similar character in
• 23:10
  Seeds of Doom, where he's obsequious and doing what he can
• 23:16
  for whoever's in charge and changing sides where he needs to
• 23:20
  and and things like that. He's obviously got a line in
• 23:23
  playing these characters. I do remember once you know when
• 23:26
  obviously you can perform the embolism trick, not many people
• 23:30
  know this about you, but you can make people's blood boil and so
• 23:35
  I would say, being particularly nasty, saying you cannot trust
• 23:38
  Fraser Gregory's opinions. And then you you know you did
• 23:42
  the the trick, mind you. You went never.
• 23:45
  Argue with me. Again and I went no master.
• 23:48
  He's. So.
• 23:51
  Obsequious, isn't he? He's great.
• 23:53
  He is. He's wonderful.
• 23:54
  He's so yeah you just know he's he's changing sides with whoever
• 23:59
  is is there so. I like the fabulous pit at the
• 24:03
  end where it's like. We have a fine craft to take us
• 24:06
  away from here. Far away.
• 24:08
  But you better get to start walking there, aren't you?
• 24:10
  Oh. It's great.
• 24:16
  Oh, we're. Doing that thing now with some
• 24:18
  pretty shoddily drawn pictures on the walls.
• 24:20
  Oh yeah, it's it's Doctor Who Exposition.
• 24:23
  It's like the film Stargate, which.
• 24:26
  Was you go in here again, I'm not going to say any more, which
• 24:32
  does it does exactly the same thing of explaining the whole
• 24:36
  plot in 2 minutes by looking at some pictures on the wall and
• 24:40
  then go back to some more fighting.
• 24:43
  But I think the good thing about this is, is explaining the back
• 24:45
  story of the Chikon, the Chikundans, the sorry too many
• 24:51
  space names. But it hasn't actually explained
• 24:54
  the plot of what's going on here, or the the planets and
• 24:56
  that it's it's showing that they are a force to be reckoned with.
• 25:00
  Yes, exactly, as they shuffle along through a corridor.
• 25:05
  I do like the sound of it, that sort of, yeah.
• 25:08
  Dick Mills is having a good week.
• 25:10
  He he likes a squelchy, sluggy creature.
• 25:13
  It's like the Fendal or the Wiran grubs and things like
• 25:17
  that. He's good at those.
• 25:18
  Scratchy. Who does slime pretty well,
• 25:20
  doesn't it? Yeah, and here and here's you
• 25:23
  guys stuck in the slime. I love the the interaction
• 25:28
  between them now where she goes. I'm not letting her, a paranoid
• 25:32
  personality like you shut me up. She's really sticking up for
• 25:36
  herself now because she's not a victim anymore.
• 25:40
  It's it's funny. It feels like a sick now rather
• 25:43
  than. A particular looking behind a
• 25:46
  very particularly toxic closed door?
• 25:48
  Exactly. But why didn't Hugo just take
• 25:51
  his boots off? Oh yeah, never fooled by that.
• 25:55
  Ever fooled by that. Isn't that what he does
• 25:59
  ultimately? Oh no, he uses his gun.
• 26:00
  Oh, he uses his gun to melt the melt, the melt, the slime.
• 26:05
  I've got a very important aesthetic question for you.
• 26:08
  OK. It's all about the the
• 26:10
  gastropols. Yep.
• 26:12
  Well are they all boss eyed or is is messed?
• 26:16
  Or, you know, did he create his evil scheme just because he was
• 26:22
  sick to death with everyone taking the Mickey out of him?
• 26:26
  I mean, that would explain a lot, wouldn't it?
• 26:29
  Hey, man, again, I think there are worse masks in Doctor Who.
• 26:37
  Yes. Not many.
• 26:38
  I wouldn't. I don't think it's it's
• 26:42
  necessarily bad bad, but it's just not very good.
• 26:46
  You know, it's always fine with these things.
• 26:49
  There's always one detail that makes it absurdly comical.
• 26:52
  So with the with the Gravis, it was his nose.
• 26:55
  Yeah, his nose is wonderful. With the gastropause or mester
• 26:59
  in particular, it's those Andorian antennae that he's got
• 27:04
  dropping from his end. Yeah, which if if they just
• 27:09
  moved a bit, there's at least the tractator ones move and and
• 27:13
  do things so they could do it. But it all comes down to money
• 27:16
  and time, doesn't it? You know the.
• 27:18
  Thing is right is if you were doing this now, yeah, This is
• 27:21
  why I think the gas pods are a good concept.
• 27:24
  You could do a really disgusting looking CGI slug.
• 27:28
  You could have slugs sliming all over the walls, the ceiling goo
• 27:32
  dripping down. It could be really horrific.
• 27:37
  And nasty. It wouldn't just be a cumbersome
• 27:39
  costume, Exactly. And that's what what you get
• 27:45
  when time and technology moves on and you've got got more
• 27:49
  resources to do this. This is this is standard Doctor
• 27:52
  Who monster territory really, isn't it?
• 27:54
  Put a man in a suit with a big rubber mask on him, get a good
• 27:58
  actor in to play the lead one and you'll be fine.
• 28:02
  It just doesn't quite pull it off because the elements are
• 28:07
  slightly weaker than usual. I think like the the ambition of
• 28:11
  the idea is good and bad. It's good because it's a creepy
• 28:18
  idea. It's bad because they had no way
• 28:20
  of realizing it exactly. And again, it's like the
• 28:22
  Tractators that the idea is brilliant, that they would be
• 28:25
  wood, lies like creatures that would would be manoeuvrable and
• 28:30
  could could could creep up round you and crush you to death.
• 28:34
  But the technology wasn't there to make a suit that could
• 28:37
  actually do that, and so they shuffle around with their arms
• 28:40
  flapping. They all look like they're
• 28:42
  wearing hairy rucksacks, don't they?
• 28:44
  Yeah, Well, exactly. So you know Doctor Who and giant
• 28:49
  insects is, Yeah. I've would you like to introduce
• 28:55
  our science and astronomy expert Jason Thompson.
• 28:58
  Now who's going to take us through?
• 29:01
  As male science lecture about the planets because I believe
• 29:06
  it's as convincing and accurate as Kill the Moon was for the.
• 29:10
  Moon. Do you?
• 29:15
  Does it bother you? Like the science of Doctor Who
• 29:17
  never bothers me? Really.
• 29:18
  Well, because I'm not a scientist.
• 29:20
  Now, so I just sort of nod and go, Oh yeah, well, you know, it
• 29:24
  that makes a kind of sense, you know, my.
• 29:29
  I know, I know in the back of my head that if you move the Earth
• 29:33
  away from where it is, yeah, everyone on the planet would
• 29:35
  die. Yeah, because it's a series of
• 29:37
  circumstances, scientific circumstances, as to how we're
• 29:40
  all alive on this planet. Do I object to when that happens
• 29:43
  in the stolen Earth? Because it's a dramatic moment
• 29:45
  with all the moons in the sky. Oh, not tall.
• 29:50
  Because, you know, as someone said, I think Fraser said it
• 29:54
  recently, it's sci-fi. It doesn't matter.
• 29:58
  You could do anything as long as you sort of it makes sense in a
• 30:02
  in the plot. Oh my.
• 30:05
  God, we're going to get the Doctor's.
• 30:06
  Last attempt to murder somebody now as he leaps over the table
• 30:11
  and tries to strive. Now Peter Davison would never
• 30:15
  have done that, no, and we've already had a scene where he's
• 30:18
  jumped over a sofa. It might have been enough if
• 30:21
  they just walked in and gone villain, murderer and then had a
• 30:24
  conversation. But the yeah, but again, we
• 30:29
  don't get that physical side of Colin very often and he's all so
• 30:33
  often portrayed as he's he's big, big man.
• 30:37
  He's not able to do this, but he can look, he's he's great.
• 30:42
  He really, really is. And you know, I'm never going to
• 30:45
  stop quoting Kevin McNally. He goes to Colin Baker.
• 30:49
  Would you stop strangling people Colin?
• 30:56
  They are having such a laugh. He just smashed it right in the
• 30:59
  face. He's really good.
• 31:02
  Didn't he? That's that's a Jaconda de Hugo
• 31:04
  Lang, Not Colin to anyone else. Anyone who's listening.
• 31:09
  Oh, even Nestor has a a boner for Perry, don't he?
• 31:12
  That's just unnecessary what's going.
• 31:15
  To do with her? Oh, exactly.
• 31:17
  It's just just nasty. That's.
• 31:21
  A great reaction. Well, exactly.
• 31:26
  I find her pleasing. Oh please.
• 31:32
  Yeah, she she that. And that's say, would he should
• 31:37
  have put yeah, every time because you could have done.
• 31:41
  You know, Shakai saying. Pretty.
• 31:43
  Pretty. I find fleshy beast Joe Bell,
• 31:46
  yeah. Yeah, your rose Red Rue bullets
• 31:48
  were made for kissing. He could have exercised all of
• 31:51
  that stuff. Well, exactly.
• 31:53
  You know, at least when Sil does it.
• 31:58
  It's it's funny because he just finds a repulsive.
• 32:02
  Well then what you want is Colin doing what he did earlier is
• 32:05
  when asmale says she's pretty and he goes back off.
• 32:09
  All right. Yeah.
• 32:10
  Exactly. She's a most.
• 32:11
  Devout young person to the religion.
• 32:15
  Oh, here we go. Come on Colin, show us what you
• 32:18
  can do with a cliffhanger. Perry.
• 32:21
  That'll kill her. Stop him.
• 32:23
  Don't leave me. I must go to her.
• 32:28
  No. Sigh.
• 32:29
  If necessary, Fraser must die. No, you're supposed to shout out
• 32:35
  Fraser. So I'm just picking up every,
• 32:42
  every cliffhanger to to slip back, which is basically him
• 32:46
  roaring something. Isn't it what we just goes run,
• 32:49
  Perry, run. Well, I thought that was rather
• 32:56
  good, that episode. Do you know what actually it
• 33:00
  was? Wasn't it?
• 33:01
  Things are bubbling along now. We've got some nice actors in
• 33:04
  play all together. We're on an alien planet.
• 33:07
  The plot's starting to go here. Yeah, you know, it's it's like
• 33:13
  the Space Pirates. Once you get past the first two
• 33:16
  episodes, it's actually pretty bearable.
• 33:19
  It's very unusual for the quality to improve as a story.
• 33:23
  Normally we start with a great episode one, don't we?
• 33:26
  Usually We don't often get a great episode 3.
• 33:30
  It's very rare for like a hinge clip story to have a episode 4
• 33:33
  that best Episode one. Yes.
• 33:37
  So because episode one's are easy.
• 33:40
  Yeah. It's true.
• 33:41
  It's true, mind you. I do feel, I think Revelation
• 33:44
  and the Diets Episode 2 is better than episode one.
• 33:45
  Just because the Doctor gets he's in there, he's right,
• 33:48
  actually gets something to do. Well, look, we're going to into
• 33:55
  episode 4 where the Doctor is going to finally, you know, cast
• 33:59
  off all that melodrama and very subtly attempt to bring down the
• 34:03
  villain by throwing a jar of acid into his face.
• 34:07
  Yes. Are you ready?
• 34:09
  You ready?