Latest / Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast / Winnie Ruth Judd - The Trunk Murderess - Part 1

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Winnie Ruth Judd - The Trunk Murderess - Part 1 · Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast

• 0:07
  Speaker 1: In nineteen thirty one, two women were found murdered and
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: stuffed into a series of travel trunks. Their remains were
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: discovered as blood leaked from the trunks in a Los
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: Angeles train station. The person responsible a twenty six year
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: old woman named Winnie Ruth Judd, who claimed it was
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: all self defense, but as investigators dug deeper, they uncovered
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: a tangle mess of love affairs, jealousy, political connections, and
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: a possible accomplice who simply walked away scott free.
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: This is the.
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: Story of Winnie Ruth Judd, aka the Trunk Murderous.
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: My name's Ben, I'm Nicole, and you're listening to Wicked
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: and Grim.
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: A true crime podcasting material for a mature audience.
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: Listener discretion is advised.
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: This might be a part one. I haven't decided yet.
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: You're going to see how it goes.
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: That's exactly what I'm doing, because this is a big case.
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: I've got it all done. But it's a matter of
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: how well this goes today, Okay, how much we get through,
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: how long it takes us, discussions we might have, whatever.
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: There's a plethora of reasons that this may or may
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: not be Part one, So if you're curious. If this
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: is going to be a two parter, part one will
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: be in the title. If part one isn't in the title,
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: then we just we we do the whole thing today.
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: Then we rallied through away.
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, this is an interesting case. I am surprised
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: I haven't heard of this one before, because it's a
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: pretty big one.
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I don't think I have either. It sounds
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: like I don't know. It's gonna keep us on our toes.
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: I think, oh, definitely. And honestly, Okay, I was thinking
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: of this the other day. When we say we haven't
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: heard of this case before, I really think we probably
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: have heard many of these cases. It's just we haven't
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: dove into it and really learned about it.
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: I guess.
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we've probably come across it, heard article or read
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: articles or clippings or whatever, but then we forget about them.
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: They blend into other stories, and then a couple of
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: years later we come across it again and it's yeah,
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: that's that's my fear.
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: You have, like no recollection. I can't even recollection recollection
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: of it.
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's my theory at least.
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean we kind of like eat sleep and
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: breed true crime often, and I know I don't retain
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: even like someone will bring up an episode we did
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: a week and I'm like, oh my god, what was it.
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: I'm like trying to figure out in my head and remember, right.
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: Well, we've done so many and it's always on to
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: the next one, Right well.
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: I think it's a coping mechanism too, to just kind
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: of like do it and then like put it out
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: of your head. Because if you had all the shit
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: in your head that we have talked about and you be,
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: you know, it would might not be good for your
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: mental health.
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: I would probably be in a padded cell right now.
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: I honestly think I would. Well yeah, but do you
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: know what I think is actually the craziest thing of
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: all this. What's that is when someone goes and supports
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: us on Patreon because they are so amazing.
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: I knew that that I could see your like wheels
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: just turning and how you're gonna transition this. I like it.
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: Well, I'm sorry, I'm sorry that we have amazing people
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: who sign up on Patreon, people like Jessica Burrows and
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: heather's Anini for example. They're incredible because they signed up
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: on Patreon this week and shout out to you guys.
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: Thank you, You're amazing.
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: Shout out to you too. That's awesome.
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: I can't believe you're just like giving me shit for
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: my transition.
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: Give you shit. But I could just see it. I
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: was like, it's coming, it's coming.
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: Well, you got to make a fun situation out of it.
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: You're gonna transition somehow, right, totally okay, Well, especially if
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: we're going to be going into a dark story like
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: this one.
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm glad that I made myself a nice, warm,
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: hot chocolate to listen to this good call.
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: I will tell you this is a bit of a
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: deep dive. So try not to ask too many questions
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: about like what like going ahead, because I'll probably be
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: answering those.
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: It's going to be covered.
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so save those questions from near the end, if
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: at all.
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: Possible, me not ask questions.
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: You can ask questions, just try to hold back on
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: maybe have discussions on things rather than questions, how's that okay?
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: Because I don't want to be like I'll be answering that.
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: I'll be answering that constantly. Yeah, okay, fair enough, all right,
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: So let's start. Winnie Ruth McKinnell was born on January
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: twenty ninth, nineteen oh five, in the small town of Oxford, Indiana.
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: She was the daughter of a Methodist minister, H. J. McKinnell,
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: and her mother, Carrie, was deeply involved in the church. Ruth,
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: along with her brother Burton, was raised in a strict
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: religious household. Not much as documented about their very early years,
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: but the picture painted later is one of a young
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: woman who took things to heart, especially when it came
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: to being hurt. There's a story, for example, from her
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: teenage years that really stands out, and it's not exactly
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: a good one. At sixteen, Ruth was dumped by a boyfriend.
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: She was heartbroken and humiliated over it, and she didn't
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: just cry. She staged her own kidnapping and falsely accused
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: her now ex boyfriend of kidnapping and is sexually assaulting her.
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: Who.
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he was arrested and things got serious before the
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: truth eventually came out.
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: Oh boy.
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Even then, it was clear Ruth didn't handle rejection
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: well and she wasn't above cross the line to get
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: attention or revenge. At seventeen, she got married. The man
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: she chose was a doctor, William Craig Judd, a physician
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: nearly twenty years her senior and a veteran of World
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: War One. He had been injured in the war and
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: lived with chronic pain, and like many men of his time,
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: he managed it the only way he knew how, through
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: substance abuse of morphine. Eventually, that pain management turned into
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: a full blown addiction, and while William tried to keep
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: it hidden, it had a lasting effect on their life together.
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: Early in their marriage, the couple moved to Mexico, where
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: doctor Judd worked as a medical physician for a mining
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: company and later offered care in rural villages. Ruth helped
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: with the practice and ran their household as well, but
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: it was far from the life that she'd imagined. They
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: were constantly moving, never quite settled, and William couldn't hold
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: down a job for long. On top of that, ruth
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: health started to fail. She developed tuberculosis, a condition that
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: she would struggle with for the rest of her life.
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: Adding to the strain, the couple discovered they wouldn't be
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: able to have children. Their marriage quietly began to fall apart,
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: not with a big explosion or anything, but it was slow, painful,
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: and distant. William eventually moved to Los Angeles, while Ruth
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: decided to try and make a new start somewhere else.
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: That new start came for her in Phoenix, Arizona, in
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: nineteen thirty. Now, back then, Phoenix was still finding its identity.
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: The Great Depression had hit, but the city was growing
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: fast and was in the middle of a transition. It
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: had once been a dusty desert town, but now was
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: becoming a place of new beginnings. The population had doubled
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: in nineteen twenty through the nineteen twenties sorry for and
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: the Great Depression had thrown a wrench into the economy.
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: So it was a little bit of an interesting situation.
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: Phoenix still had a spark of promise. It wasn't glamorous,
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: but it was dry, sunny, full potential, especially for people
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: like Ruth trying to heal and trying to move on.
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: Ruth found work quickly, first as a governess for a
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: wealthy family called the Layfords, a job that suited her well.
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: She was polite, well spoken, and had the kind of
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: religious and moral image that upper class families liked. She
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: could hold her own in conversation, whether she was talking
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: to children or the Layfard's high society friends. Her quiet
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: charm earned her trusts and open doors. Now, Phoenix might
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: have been far from glamorous, especially compared to Los Angeles
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: or Chicago, but Ruth was still finding her place here.
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: Now.
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: It was through that job and her proximity to the
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: city's elites that Ruth met a man by the name
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: of John holleran aka nicknamed Happy Jack. John was in
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: his mid forties. He was successful, well connected, and carried
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: himself like a man who knew how to get what
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: he wanted. He was in the lumber industry, and he
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: had ties to politics, and was one of those people
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: who always seemed to be smiling and shaking hands, you know,
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: making sure that he had people in his pocket and
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: networking all across the board.
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: Right. Well, I never even had the when you were saying,
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: like her situation and her job and stuff, Yeah, that
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: would probably put her in a good position to meet someone. Hey,
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: I never thought of that even, Yeah.
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: It definitely would. Now, as far as John goes, his
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: nickname Happy Jack wasn't just for show. Apparently, he was
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: quite charismatic, popular, and by all accounts, quite the ladies man.
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: So he's a serial killer. Just kidding, kidding, kidding, kidding, Wow,
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: I mean that is how we lost time to start
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: our episodes.
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: Uh, you're not wrong. I'll give you that.
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: No, you're allowed to be that without being a serial killer. Yeah,
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: very bad joke.
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: Now John was married, but that didn't stop him from Florida.
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: So they weren't like, you know, going into anything right
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: away or whatever, but he was. He was quite flirtatious
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: and but not to say that he just drew the
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: line at that. Now, Phoenix was still small enough that
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: people notice things, but big enough that folks who get
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: away with a lot, especially if they had power. John
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: moved in wealthy circles, and rumors about his affairs weren't
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: exactly whispered, so he was able to keep things pretty
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: hush hush. But it didn't take long for John and
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: Ruth to start an affair of their own. Despite still
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: being married to William, Ruth was pulled into John's charm
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: and probably by the sense of stability and sophistication he
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: represented as well. She kept in touch with her husband,
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: still called herself missus Judd, and supported William and his
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: emotional turmoil or whatever as he tried to get clean
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: in Los Angeles and rehab clinic, but her heart was
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: clearly drifting into a new direction. In Phoenix, Ruth lived
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: a double life. On paper, she was a dutiful wife
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: of a doctor recovering from illness. In reality, she was
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: now an independent young woman making her own way, spending
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: time with cities social elites and falling deeper into a
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: complicated relationship with a man who was far from available. Eventually,
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: Ruth left her job as a governess and took a
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: position as secretary at the Gunro Medical Clinic. It was
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: a good fit. She was organized, smart, personable, and at
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: the clinic she met Agnes Ann Leroy, a thirty two
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: year old X ray technician. She also met Hedvig aka
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: Sammy Samuelson, a twenty four year old teacher who'd moved
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: to Phoenix from Alaska after being diagnosed with tuberculosis. Now
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: Anne and Sammy were close, so close that people often
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: assumed they were a couple. In fact, though it was
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: never confirmed, what was clear was that they were inseparable,
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: and they shared a bungalow at two nine two nine
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: North Second Street, a modest, little cozy home owned by
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: none other than John holleran. Now, the three women, Row
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: and Sammy grew close. They were young, working, independent women
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: in a time when it was still a bit unusual.
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: They through parties, socialized and some of the most powerful
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: and well connected people and circles, and became known for
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: entertaining guests, many of whom were married men looking for
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: a little fun outside of their regular lives.
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: Oh okay, I don't know if I like where this
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: is going.
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Now, whether these gatherings ever crossed into something transactional
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: isn't actually confirmed, but some sources implied money occasionally changed hands.
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: Nothing was ever proven, but the implication is there.
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: Okay, well, I mean it makes sense, right, yeah.
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: Now, At one point and in Sammy even invited Ruth
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: to move in with them. It made sense they were
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: all spending time together anyways. But the arrangement didn't last long.
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: Tensions rose, mostly over minor things like cleaning space or
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: privacy whatever. Right, typically roommate bickering.
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: Title. Yeah, when you.
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: Get friends that you know, they haven't known each other
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: too long, that all of a sudden they're living in
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: close quarters and realize who each other really are. That
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: sort of thing.
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: The true cothers come out.
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, not to say that. They were like, you know, like,
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: I'm no longer your friend friends off situation, it was
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: just like, fuck, this bitch is dirty and she doesn't
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: do her dishes like you know what I mean, that
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: sort of stuff.
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, you don't see those things right until you're
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: living together exactly.
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: Now, Ruth eventually moved into an apartment just down the street.
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: They remain friends, but it became clear that living together
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: it was a mistake.
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: Still, they were part of that same circle. They worked together,
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: socialized together, and shared more than just laughter and gossip.
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: All three women had complicated relationships with John. In fact,
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: whether he had affairs with all of them or only some,
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: we don't exactly know. But what's clear is that John
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: was a common thread in their lives and maybe even
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: a wedge separating them, getting in between them at times.
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: This John guy, he's uh, I don't know. Oh. At
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: first I was like, oh, okay, he doesn't seem too bad,
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: but yeah, I'm not a fan of him.
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: No, he's kind of greasy, blind me as hell. Yeah,
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: yeah for sure. Now, at mid October nineteen thirty one,
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: whatever harmony existed between Ruth and and Sammy. It was
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: long gone. They were still socializing, still putting on the
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: occasional party, but the tension was growing harder to ignore.
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: Small arguments became regular, and beneath the surface, something else
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: was beginning to brew. Friday, October sixteenth was supposed to
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: be a regular night. Ruth had made plans to host
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: a dinner at her apartment with John and a younger
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: woman she knew from work named Lucille Moore. Now, Lucille
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: was from northern Arizona and John had mentioned planning a
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: hunting trip up that way, so Ruth thought Lucille might
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: be able to give him some tips in the area.
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: But John, ever the social butterfly, decided they should stop
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: by Anne in Sammy's bungalow first. There was a git
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: together happening, and he promised that he was going to
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: draw been Ruth hadn't planned on going. Anne had invited
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: her earlier, but she declined because she wanted to focus
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: on her evening with John and Lucille. But now, awkwardly,
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: there they were, Ruth and Lucille sitting in the car
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: while John slipped into into mingo inside to mingle sort
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: of thing. Anne and Sammy eventually came out to say hello.
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: Smiles were exchange, but Ruth since something was off. Maybe
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: it was how Anne looked at Lucille. Maybe it was
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: just a gut feeling. But whatever it was, Ruth felt unwelcome.
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: It was subtle, but it hit her hard. The night
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: went on, they left the bungalow and had dinner as planned,
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: but something had shifted and it all came to head
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: the next evening. On Saturday night, October seventeenth, Ruth stopped
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: by Anne in Sammy's place. She hadn't planned to, but
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: after John stood her up that evening, she was annoyed
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: and restless. She knew Anne and Sammy were having a
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: quiet Ridge night with friends. By the time Ruth arrived,
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: the friends had already left, but Anne and Sammy invited
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: her in to stay the night.
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: Okay, here, I was thinking John was going to be
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: there or something.
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: According to Ruth, what started as a quiet evening spiraled
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: into an explosive argument, and this is where the stories
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: start to split. In Ruth's version, Anne and Sammy confronted
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: her about Lucille, specifically about introducing her to John. Sammy,
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: who worked at the same clinic as Ruth had apparently
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: seen Lucille's medical chart and accused her of having syphilis,
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: implying Ruth had put John at risk. The confrontation quickly
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: turned personal, and leegendly threatened to tell Ruth's husband and
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: father about her behavior. Ruth, in turn, said that she'd
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: exposed Anne for breaking a piece of X ray equipment
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: at work. Harsh words escalated into screaming, accusations and chaos.
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: Wow, holy shit.
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: Then Ruth claimed Sammy grabbed a gun. Okay in her statement,
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: Ruth's said she lunged for the weapon and the two
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: began struggling. A shot then went off, hitting Ruth in
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: the left hand. In a panic, she grabbed a bread
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: knife from the kitchen and slashed Sammy's shoulder. The fight continued.
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: Another shot hit Sammy in the chest and entered the
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: room holding an ironing board and struck Ruth. While yelling
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: at Sammy to shoot, Ruth fired again. She said she
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: didn't remember how many times, only that Ann collapsed and
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: Ruth passed out shortly after.
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: Okay, that really did escalate.
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: Hey, yeah, that's one version of what happened.
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: Now, police would later claim a very different scenario. According
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: to investigators, both Anne and Sammy were shot while laying
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: in bed, suggesting the attack came while they were asleep.
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: There was also no sign of forced entry or a
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: struggle in the kitchen, at least, no one nothing that
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: matched Ruth's chaotic story. What we do know for certain
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: is this, by the time the sun rose on Sunday,
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: October eighteenth, and Leroy and Sammy Samuelson were dead, Ruth
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: was injured and in shock and went home. That night.
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: She returned to the bungalow, this time, according to her,
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: with John Holleran with her. Sorry, I kind of like
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: left that weird. I was like, I should say, like more,
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: But then I just like, no, I'm going to stop there,
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: And in my head I just had this internal argument
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: of what I was going to do next. So, yeah,
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: she returned with John.
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: Just killed two individuals, and now she's went back to
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: her place with John.
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: No, she killed two individuals and she's returning back to
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: the scene of the crime with John.
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: Oh shit, Okay, yeah, wow with John. Okay, John's getting
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: involved a little bit more. This guy just makes his rounds.
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: Does he ever?
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: Now.
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: In her story, Ruth said that she was prepared to
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: call her husband for help, but John talked her out
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: of it. He said he'd handle things, so Ruth claimed.
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: John picked up Sammy's body, carried it into Anne's bedroom.
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: He wiped down surfaces, started cleaning the scene. He even
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: called a doctor Brown, a contact of his, to patch
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: up Ruth's injured hand. When the doctor didn't answer, Ruth
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: bandaged it herself because she had been shot in the hand.
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: Remember from the tustle, Yeah, I do remember that now.
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: John Legley went into the garage and found a large
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: black trunk, then telling Ruth to go home, he said
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: that he'd deal with the mess.
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: She said.
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: He promised to dispose of the bodies and make sure
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: nothing traced back to her. But when she returned the
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: next day, the story changed. The house was clean, the
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: bodies were still there, and now the plan John told her.
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: Was this.
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: Quote, You're taking the trunks to Los Angeles. So by
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: the morning of Sunday, October eighteenth, nineteen thirty one, Juth,
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: sorry Ruth Judd, was a woman with a bandaged hand,
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: a suitcase full of dis memberments, and a plan that
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: was falling apart in real time because she followed through
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: with what she claimed was John's new plan to take
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: these bodies to LA by the train. The logic, if
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: you can call it, that was that the desert was
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: too risky. Highway patrol officers were on high alert and
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: dumping bodies out there might get them.
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: Both caught, but traveling with them is a better idea on.
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: A packed train, yes, apparently.
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: Okay, Well, I also have to say, like John must
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: have a real thing with this Ruth chick, because for
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: him to because if he had a thing with these
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: other two, but he's like so easily able to cover
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: this up for her and stuff, right and help. I
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: feel like there was really something going on between like
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: John and Ruth that was bigger, because why the fuck
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: would he care to help her? Really?
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: True? That's a good point. Actually, that's a good point
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: and a good point to hang on to through this story.
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: In fact.
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: Okay, hold on to that perspective because that kind of
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: makes some sense. Okay, So John allegedly instructed Ruth to
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: take the bodies out of state, of course, right. He
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: even promised someone would be waiting for her at the
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: LA train station to handle the luggage once she arrived.
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: Ruth complied with what he said. She called a delivery company,
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: Lightning Delivery, to help move the trunk from Anne and
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: Sammy's bungalow to her apartment, but when the delivery men
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: showed up, they found the trunk too too heavy, far
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: too heavy to carry. One weighed around two hundred and
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: twenty five pounds and the other was over one hundred pounds.
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: Ruth quickened her feet, told them that the trunks were
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: filled with her husband's medical books. Somehow she convinced them
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: to help move everything anyways.
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: Okay, well, yeah, I like those trunks from back in
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: the day are were heavy. Oh yeah, Like it's amazing
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: because we have two of them, I think because we
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: just like collecting like vintagey type things, yeap, And it's
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: unbelievable that that's how people traveled and shit like it's
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: just now we have like these suitcases on wheels and
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: we shouldn't complain really at all.
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: No, And honestly, like our the stuff we travel with too,
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: Like we travel lighter because because I mean technology is
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: a little bit better, we have like better things for traveling.
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: Like say, if someone back then is going to take
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: a curling iron, it's much heavier and bigger. Than today's.
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: But also back then, if you're traveling, you're probably traveling
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: for longer because it's not like a quick flight to
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: Mexico and then back a week later. It was like
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: you're traveling and you're going to go live in Mexico
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: for six months. Situation.
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think would. They wouldn't have had curling
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: irons back then. Oh yeah, there's curling irons seriously, like okay, yeah,
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: curlers or whatever.
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: No, they'd be like a literal, like solid like iron bar,
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: a little curler or whatever. They like, heat it up
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: with like a candle flame and like it it works,
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: just like a curling iron. Oh shit, that's why it's
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: called a curling iron. I guess because it was made
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: of iron.
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: Huh wow. That would have take forever too.
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Now, that night, alone in her apartment, Ruth opened
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: the trunks. According to her later statements, it was only
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: then that she realized Sammy's body had been dismembered. Anne
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: was still intact, but Sammy had been cut into multiple pieces.
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: Ruth claimed that she had nothing to do with the dismemberment,
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: that when she left the bodies with John, they were whole.
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: Now Sammy's torso, limbs, and head were divided between various
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: suitcases a hat box. It was, in Ruth's words, horrifying
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: a mess.
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: Still, she repacked everything, stealed her nerves, and prepared for
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: the trip. The next morning, on October nineteenth, Ruth called
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: her landlord and asked for a ride to Phoenix Union Station.
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: He brought his son along to help with the massive,
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: suspiciously heavy luggage. Again, Ruth told them that the bags
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: contained medical material and they didn't ask any questions. At
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: the station, the baggage clerk flagged her trunk as excess weight,
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: and Ruth had to pay an extra fee four dollars
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: and forty eight cents, which was a significant amount of
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: money at the time, but she paid it. Then she
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: boarded the Golden State Limited, an overnight train headed for
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: Los Angeles. Somewhere in the bustle of the passengers, all
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: the chaos in whatever was going on in the train,
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: Ruth sat quietly with two murdered victims packed beneath her feet.
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: She wasn't invisible, though the train's baggage handler, HJ. Mapps,
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: noticed something was off. The smell coming from Ruth's trunks
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: was overwhelming, and dark fluid had begun to seep from
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: the corners. He guessed it was probably raw deer meat inside,
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: not uncommon at the time for hunters smuggling venison across
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: state lines. Still, it was suspicious enough that when the
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: train traveled to La Maps notified district baggage agent Arthur Anderson.
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: And Anderson took one look, one sniff, and he too,
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: knew something was wrong. Meanwhile, Ruth had made her into
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: the city, expecting someone to meet her at the station,
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: just like John had promised her right However, no one
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: showed up. With no plan or no backup, Ruth took
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: a trolley to her brother, Burton mckinnel's dorm at the
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: University of California. She told him she needed help retrieving
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: her luggage, that it was urgent. Burton was unaware of
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: what was really going on and agreed to drive her
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: back now. When they arrived, the district baggage agent Arthur
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: Anderson was there waiting for them.
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: Mm hm.
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: He questioned Ruth about the smell and the leaking fluid.
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: She claimed not to smell anything. Burton laughed and said
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: how could she not notice? The stench was unmistakable. Anderson
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: demanded that Ruth open the trunks.
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: Oh shit.
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: She fumbled with her purse, hands shaking, and then she
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: said that she didn't have the keys, her husband had them.
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: That's when things unraveled. Ruth grabbed Burton's arms and practically
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: dragged him into the car. As they drove off, Burton,
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: half joking, half nervous, asked what was really in those trunks.
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: Her response, it was justified. I had no choice.
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: Oh man, yeah, He's like, what the hell did I
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: just get myself involved in.
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: At the next red light, Ruth opened the car door
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: and took off, vanishing into the crowd.
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: Oh okay.
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: Back at the station, Anderson waited a while longer before
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: calling the La Police Department. By the time the officers arrived,
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: they were greeted by a stench so foul it was
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: already drawing attention from other passengers. With Ruth gone, police
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: picked the locks to the trunks, and inside they found
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: clothing soaked in blood, and beneath it dismembered body parts
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: of the two women stuffed inside. The larger trunk contained
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: Anne's full body, the smaller one held Sammy cut into
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: pieces in other luggage, abandoned the women's washroom. They found
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: her remains, the remains of more body parts, along with
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: a twenty five caliber Cult automatic, a box of Winchester cartridges,
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: and a surgeon's instrument bag. The autopsies told their own
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: version of the events. Anne Leroy had been shot once
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: in the head, Sammy Samuelson had four bullet wounds, one
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: in the shoulder, one in the chest, one in the temple,
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: and a wound to her hand. One thing was clear, though,
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: from all of this, this wasn't deer meat.
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: You don't say yeah, I do say nothing.
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: By the evening of October nineteenth, nineteen thirty one, word
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: of the gruesome discovery at the LA train station had
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: spread like wildfire. This wasn't a simple murder case. It
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: was shocking, cinematic and downright and bizarre. Newspapers ran with
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: it immediately, and within twenty four hours, headlines across the
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: country were blaring with the name Winnie Ruth jud Ah.
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: She would have been better off just to deal with
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: this situation.
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: Herself, probably so. As I mentioned, Ruth had now disappeared
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: into Los Angeles after slipping away from her brother. She
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: was alone in the city. She didn't know the city
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: very well, and she was bleeding from her hand that
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: had bullet wound in it, And she was carrying all
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: this guilt, or, depending on which version of the story
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: you believe, the burden of the two dead women. But
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: for four days she stayed hidden. Where exactly she went
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: during that time remains unclear, but what we do know
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: is how it ended. On October twenty third, Ruth was
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: found hiding in a funeral home. How or why she
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: chose that place is still debated. Some say she was
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: seeking comfort near the dead, Others say she was simply
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: desperate and thought it would be the last place anyone
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: would look. According to some reports, she was hungry, tired,
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: and emotionally spent. What finally convinced her to come out
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: of hiding was an emotional plea from her husband, doctor
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: William Judd, who was still living in Los Angeles at
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: the time. Despite their separation, he had stood by her,
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: and it was his influence that reportedly encouraged her to
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: actually surrender. But her capture was just the beginning. The
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: press had already dubbed her the trunk Murderous, also the
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: Blonde Butcher, and even the Tiger woman. These weren't just
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: catchy headlines, they were designed to sell papers. This was
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: a time when sensationalism ruled journalism, and Ruth's case had
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: everything editors wanted. Yeah, there was scandal, betrayal, female rage,
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: a bloody mystery package inside a leaking trunk on a train.
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: Within hours of her arrest, reporters and photographers descended on
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: Phoenix where the murders had taken place.
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: People would just like eat that story up.
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: They did. Phoenix basically basically turned into like a crime
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: scene attraction at that point. It was like a true
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: crime like fa ground because people were flocking so hard
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: to see and get like a piece of this story.
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: So when police returned to the small bungalow at two
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: nine two nine North Second Street, they made what can
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: only be described as a terrible mistake. They let journalists
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: and curious neighbors into the house at the same time.
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: No, yeah why.
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: The result, of course, the crime scene was compromised beyond recognition.
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: Evidence was trampled, blood was smeared, and worst of all,
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: the landlord sees the opportunity to make a quick buck.
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: He placed a newspaper ad offering people the chance to
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: tour the murder house for ten cents per person.
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: Oh wow, that's an entrepreneur and a half.
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: Right, Hundreds lined up to see the quote whole house
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: of horrors. According to Ruth's defense lawyer, most of the
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: county came through that house.
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: Whatever physical clues may have helped paint a clear picture
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: of what happened was absolutely destroyed by the public and
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: their curiosity.
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: That's so bizarre that I don't know just hearing that, right,
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: like that would just never be able to happen nowadays.
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: I mean, crime scenes get destroyed, mind you, But I
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: mean like where you can charge your feed for like
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: to walk through this fucking house. I mean, I guess
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: actually does kind of happen.
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you can go stay at like an accepuse.
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: But I'm imagining that crime scene probably like hadn't even
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: really been cleaned up or anything.
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a little bit great. So, And honestly, I'm
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: not going to name any names or anything in this
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: because yeah, but there was a situation a few years
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: ago where there was an explosion on a pipeline north
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: of our city, and there was an individual who owned
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: property near that explosion, and they were offering tours through
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: horse trails over to the explosion site. They were trying
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: to Oh shit, they got shut down pretty quick, but
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: they tried to. They tried to literally do the exact
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: same thing.
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: So maybe it's maybe things haven't changed as much as
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: I'm thinking.
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: I think the times have changed. I just don't think
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: people have.
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it makes any sense. I mean it's a I guess,
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: slightly more civilized and like the things that you can
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: go and stay at and see now, right, because the
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: crime scenes are cleaned up and stuff, and it's just
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: like the story you have now exactly.
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: It's it's after the fact. It's I'm standing in like
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: in the very same spot. It's honestly very similar. It's
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: just a matter of like, oh, there's the blood splatter.
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: It's yeah, here's where the blood splatter was. It's the
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: same but not the same. Yeah, it's the same but different.
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: Interesting.
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: Now, in the midst of the media circus, police finally
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: got a full confession, or at least a version of one,
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: from Ruth. She admitted to killing Anne and Sammy, but
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: insisted it wasn't premeditated. According to her statement, the murders
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: happened during a heated argument in the early hours of
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: October seventeenth. The fight, she said, started over accusations that
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: Ruth had introduced John to another woman who might have
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: had syphilis, a detail and Sammy had supposedly learned from
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: work right. Ruth claimed, Sammy pulled a gun on her first,
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: and in the struggle, Ruth was shot in the hand.
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: Then she grabbed the bread knife stabbed Sammy in the shoulder,
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: and as a fight escalated, more shots were fired. One
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: hit Sammy in the chest, another struck and when she
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: came after Ruth with an ironing board, Ruth said she
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: fired blindly and then blacked out. When she came to,
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: both of her friends were dead.
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: From there, her story followed a path we now know. Well.
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: John came to help. He moved the bodies, he fetched
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: the trunks, He told her to stay quiet, and when
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: it came time to actually take the bodies to La,
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: he vanished, leaving her to clean up the mess because hey,
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: someone was supposed to be there waiting for her, all
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: this sort of stuff. Nope, none of that.
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So honest like left her exactly.
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: It honestly sounds almost like a setup.
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, he went about making this situation way worse
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: because also, why the fuck was he cutting up the
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: body and stuff. That's the kind of sketch when you
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: think about that, and then just okay, go do this,
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: take this away and then just done.
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like what the now? Even as she confessed to murder,
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: Ruth painted herself as a woman who you was used
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: and discarded by a powerful man. Winnie's sorry, Winnie Ruth Judds,
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: which is her full name. Her trial began on January nineteenth,
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: nineteen thirty two, just three months after the murder. The
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: courtroom in Maricopa County was packed, spectators lined up outside,
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: newsman jolted for seats, and the country held its breath.
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: But this wasn't just the dramatic trial of two victims. No,
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: Ruth was only being tried for the murder of Ann
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: Lee Roy, not Sammy Samuelson, and not for dismemberment. Okay,
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: it seems strange, considering Sammy's remains were found in bits
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: and pieces packed into multiple suitcases. But Anne's body had
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: been found intact, and that alone made her case easier
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: for prosecution to pin down. Prosecutors wanted a conviction, and
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: they figured they had the best shot if they focused
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: solely on Anne.
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: Huh. Okay, I guess that kind of makes sense.
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: Kind of yeah, I mean, especially when you look at
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: the fact that, like, okay, the crime scene was destroyed.
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: To evidence that you have is minimal, they're lacking it.
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: Now, her defense team didn't argue self defense. Instead, they
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: went with insanity.
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: Okay, I've seen that happen before many a times.
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: This was a strategic move. Ruth's behavior, her shifting story,
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: her emotional breakdowns, and the bizarre train ride made the
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: claim quite believable and fact Her attorney said that she
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: was mentally unwell at the time of the killings and
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: that she had no control over her actions. To back
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: this up, they pointed to her gunshot wound, her exhausted,
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: fragile appearance, and her history of illness. Ruth didn't testify.
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: She sat silently, looking small and pale, in the defendant's seat,
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: letting the case play out around her. The prosecution had
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: a much more straightforward version. Ruth, they said, was a
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: woman driven by jealousy. They claimed she was furious over
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: John Halleran's involvement with Anne and Sammy, possibly even romantically.
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: According to them, Ruth felt threatened, isolated, and vengeful, and
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: so she planned the murders, executed them while Sammy and
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: Anne were sleeping, and even shot herself in the hand
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: to stage the appearance of a struggle. They told the
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: jury that she was a cold blooded killer and that
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: the murderers weren't impulsive, they were premeditated. But there were
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: problems with their story as well, and this theory. The
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: officers on the scene said the mattress was missing when
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: they arrived at the bungalow. One was later found dumped
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: in a field with no bloodstains at all. The other
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: was never recovered. This weakened the claim that the women
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: were shot in their beds. Still, the jury took two
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: hours to reach their verdict. Ruth Judd was found guilty
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: of first degree murder and the judge sentenced her to
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: death by hanging.
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: Oh right, shit, kind of forgot about like the penalties
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: you can get back then, I guess.
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: Yep Oooh. Now, later members of the jury revealed something shocking.
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: They had all recommended life in prison, not death, so
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: the judge overturned their recommendation and went straight to the
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: death penalty.
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: Okay, yep.
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: Meanwhile, there was whispers about John Holleran, and they were
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: getting louder. Ruth had pointed to him again and again
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: in her statements, saying he helped her with the bodies,
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: told her to stay quiet, and ultimately abandoned her. And
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: finally the pressure became too much. John Happy Jack Holleran
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: finally found himself in court. It was nineteen thirty three,
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: a year after Ruth's conviction, and the State of Arizona
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: had officially charged him as an accomplice to murder, and
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: John Holleran finally was inside that courtroom.
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: Okay, because I was kind of like, why the hell
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: is this guy just getting away with all the shit?
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: Scoff free.
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: Ruth said repeatedly that he was at the bungalow after
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: the murders, that he helped move the bodies and even
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: provided the trunks to that was used to hide the remains.
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: She claimed he convinced her not to go to police,
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: He promised to take care of everything, then vanish the
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: second everything went wrong. This trial, however, would go very
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: different than Ruth's trial. This time, Ruth did testify. In fact,
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: she spent three days on the stand describing how John
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: had come up to the house, I saw what happened,
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: helped orchestrate the cover up. She told the courts. He
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: moved Sammy's bodies to end bodies. Sammy's body there, we
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: go to Anne's bedroom, brought in the trunk, and instructed
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: Ruth to keep quiet when her hand was bleeding from
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: the gunshot wound. It was John who promised a doctor
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: would come, but never did. She claimed that this whole
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: plan to take the bodies to la was his idea.
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: He told her that one of his quote contacts would
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: meet her there at this contact never showed that plan,
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: she said, was just his way of pushing her and
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: the problem out of Phoenix and out of his life. Quote,
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: I'm going to be hanged for something John Holleran is
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: responsible for. He is guilty of anything I am guilty of.
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: Not really but okay, well maybe not murder, but still
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: a lot to a lot of things.
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure.
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: It was an emotional and damning testimony. John's attorney had
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: a different approach. John didn't take the stand. His attorney
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: argued that Ruth's version of events was not credible, describing
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: her testimony as quote the story of an insane person,
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: and it didn't help that Ruth had changed her account
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: multiple times, first saying she acted alone, then pointing to John,
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: and even later offering yet another version of the stories
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: in a written confession which we will get to. The
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: defense argued that even if Ruth's defense claimed it was true,
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: no crime was committed for John to be an accompliced
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: to and if it wasn't true, then she had murdered
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: the women in cold blood, and then she was alone
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: in the responsibility. The prosecution had little hard evidence tying
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: John to the crime, no fingerprints, no photographs, witnesses, nothing,
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: So after just a short deliberation, the jury returned with
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: their verdict. John Holleran was found not guilty.
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: You're kidding me. He walked free, of course he fucking did. Yeah,
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: what the actual shit, I'm going to stop it there.
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. Okay, I can't even imagine. There is
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: much more to go on here. But also, how the
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: fuck did he get not guilty? I mean, maybe I don't.
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: Know what the fuck's going on, but well, okay, I'm
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: going to read a couple more paragraphs here. I just
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: scrolled down a little bit and I see a better
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: spot from you.
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: Wow, you're just like playing with us here.
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: Definitely, definitely, so John may have avoided prison, but the
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: court and sorry, but the court and public opinion wasn't forgiving.
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: John's reputation in Phoenix. Once rock solid, you know, he
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: was quite the socialite sort of thing, it was shattered.
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: His social standings plummeted. Business partners distanced themselves, political allies
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: they went silent. Even though he was acquitted, many believed
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: that he got away with something right. After all, his
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: car had been seen parked at the bungalow the night
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: of the murders. Okay, and I was something that came
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: up in the court.
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: I imagine he probably also lost his family and stuff
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: in all this situation.
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: Most likely he was close with all these three women.
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: His name came up constantly in testimonies and rumors. So
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: his personal life is connections, is business. All that sort
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: of stuff was shattered. He moved to Tuscan not long
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: after and lived a quieter, more private life. In nineteen
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: thirty nine, just eight years after the murder, John Hollerand died,
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: taking whatever secrets he had with him to the grave.
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: And Ruth well, her story is not over yet, not
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: by a long shot. And that's where we'll stop.
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: WHOA, Okay, you know now, I'm just kind of like, gosh,
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: should just make all of this shit up. But okay, interesting, Yeah,
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: I guess I have to wait.
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: You definitely have to wait, and trust me, it's worth it.
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: But there are a lot of loose ends that are
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: left untied with this case. I will say that what
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: we talked about in the courtroom, that what they came
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: up with, that is the convict for this case. That
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: Ruth was guilty and John was not. That is what
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: came out of this. But there is some more theories.
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: There's some more evidence that came to light. There's some
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: more things that happened, and yeah, we'll talk all about
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: that in the next episode in part two.
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: Gosh, okay, I can't wait. Interesting. This is a real
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: interesting one.
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: It definitely is. So if you guys want to stick
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: around for that, Part two will be out on Friday.
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: You want to check out more of our social links, Hey,
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: we have a full description Facebook, Instagram. All that good
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: stuff is down there. You can check it out. We've
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: been lighting it up on Instagram lately. In fact, we
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: even had a post that's almost a million views.
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: Now I think Holy shit, really.
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: I think, so what was it at.
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: That's crazy that it got that high. I didn't realize.
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and it was just a little post on ironically,
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: a story that we claim is controversial, and of course
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: people are being a little bit controversial in the comments.
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: We had to turn those comments off. Okay, we're at
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: three quarters of a million views on it now.
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: Okay, wow, I feel like last time I looked, it
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: was three hundred, so that's crazy.
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's been quite an interesting time. But yeah, if
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: you want to check out our socials all in the
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: description of this podcast, there you go, There you go.
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: Good Spiel, Good Spiel.
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: Until Friday, Stay Wicked,