Latest / The Brilliant Fertility Podcast / Episode 049: Miracle Pregnancy at 45: Erika’s Story

Transcript

Episode 049: Miracle Pregnancy at 45: Erika’s Story · The Brilliant Fertility Podcast

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Brilliant Fertility Podcast.
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: I'm your host, dr Katie Rose, and this podcast exists to help illuminate the path ahead of you.
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: With expert interviews, clinical pearls and real client success stories, my intention is to bring you hope for what's possible on this journey and to give you tools and resources to navigate the ups and downs on the road before you.
• 0:27
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• 0:33
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• 0:40
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• 0:41
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• 0:43
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• 0:47
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• 1:13
  Speaker 1: Okay, welcome back to the Brilliant Fertility Podcast.
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: I am here with one of my favorite patients.
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: I'm here with Erica, and you guys may have heard me mention snippets of Erica's story in the past when I've referenced people who have gotten pregnant unassisted over 40 or people who have a low AMH, and it's really amazing to have Erica here with us today so that she can actually tell her story and for those of you who are out there who are over 40, who have low AMH, having some hope and inspiration of seeing what might be possible.
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for being here, erica.
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you for having me.
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: I'm excited.
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: So I remember when you came into my office and you know there's always like a little blurb on the new patient schedule of what someone's coming in for and there was a longer blurb for you.
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: So whoever you had talked to at the front desk very good notes.
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: But it was, like you know, 43 years old, history of recurrent pregnancy losses Doesn't even know if she should be thinking about fertility, but she's here for fertility.
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: And when we actually got to sit down and talk about what you had been through, I could sense for myself and I would love to hear in your own words now that you're a couple years out of that I could sense there was a lot of fear and because you had already had experiences with pregnancy loss and maybe like judgment from society and people who are wondering, like, what are you doing?
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: Why are you trying to do this now in your forties?
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: So do you remember that first interaction that we had?
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: Gosh, I think it would have been like three years ago at at this point yeah, I do remember that because I um at that point so I think that was in february of 2022, like I don't know how I remembered that.
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: But I also remember talking excessively to the front desk person, so so, yeah, I remember coming in and at that point I had had three pregnancy losses, and so in 2019, 2020, and then 2021.
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: And the one in 2021 was really hard for me because I was a little later on, and so that I was.
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: I was just very fearful.
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: That's really what it was.
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: I was surprised because in my twenties I got pregnant very easily and and this was different for me, and so I was.
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: I was like, what am I doing?
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: And yeah, there's a.
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: There was a lot of judgment around, so I didn't really tell a lot of people frankly that I was doing because there was a lot of judgment.
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of people who thought I was crazy.
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: They thought you're too old, your kid's going to be messed up, you might die.
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: I mean, there was just craziness.
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: And so I had been to a fertility doctor at that point.
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: I had been on Clomid, I had been on progesterone, I hadn't had any of my numbers done.
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: You know, like my AMH, I did that with you.
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: So when I somebody had said to me I started going to like this soaking place and there was a naturopath there and I told her my situation, I was like doing vaginal steams because I had read that that might help and so I was just really doing everything I could.
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: And she's like go to Dr Katie Rose.
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: And so when I came to you I was really feeling pretty desperate and confused and um and scared yeah.
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I remember that because those emotions are palpable.
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: And if we haven't had the resourcing and, honestly, the people to talk about that with, when we're feeling isolated, it just furthers that vicious cycle of like hanging on to a lot.
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: That is rationally where our mind goes, but may not actually be serving our body and the desire to get pregnant either.
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: So one of the things I remember the most is you kind of rattled them off like on your fingers, like the what if I die?
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: What if this kid is messed up?
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: What if I don't have enough money?
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: What if I'm too overweight?
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: What if, um, at that moment you actually hadn't married your now husband yet?
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: And so you're like what if I'm, what if I'm not actually supposed to be in this relationship?
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: Like it was just like all the things all at once and all big.
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: And so you're like what if I'm?
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: What if I'm not actually supposed to be in this relationship?
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: Like it was just like all the things all at once and all big.
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: And to know where you are now and to have truly witnessed such a transformation and such personal power that you have brought back to yourself to manifest this life is really incredible.
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: So can you just tell us a little bit about where things are now, before we kind of go through the journey.
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, totally, I'm like kind of getting a little teary eyed because I'm thinking back on that time in my life and it was just really sad and scary and lonely.
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: So that was a real thing and so, yeah, the journey has been intense.
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: I think a lot of it was like a shedding like this letting go of everything, really, of just everything that I thought that I knew and everything, and being trying to be really open to to other ideas.
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: Can you ask me the question again because I got with my tears?
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: really normal, I think when we are in the midst of it and this is true of most people, like when you're in the middle of your own journey you don't necessarily have appreciation for how far you've come, and when you do actually get the opportunity to look back and be like wow, it's actually a lot.
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: So my question for you was if you could describe a little bit about where you are now, like what is present in your life now, and then we can talk more about the journey of it to get there.
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: Okay, that's why the tears happened, because where I am now is somewhere I didn't even think that I would ever be.
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: Like I, um, I started a new career in the midst of all of this journey.
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: I started a new career, um, that gave me a bit of financial security.
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: I'm I'm married, I have this baby now, I'm probably in the best shape of my life and I'm gonna be 48 this year.
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: Um, it's basically somewhere that I didn't and I'm going to be 48 this year.
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: It's basically somewhere that I didn't imagine that I would be, and I actually have this really like feeling of contentness.
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: I'm not saying like everything's perfect in my life, like I still have things happen and you know disappointments and struggles, but it's just so different now because, um, what where I went from 2022 to here has also brought me.
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: Not only did all of these like gifts and blessings happen in my life, but the biggest one has been being more content with myself, and in doing that, I've been able to, I guess, to, I guess manifest these things in my life that have brought more ease.
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: So I think that's I'm so grateful that I get to wake up every morning and I just count my blessings, you know, every day.
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: I definitely was not doing that Three years ago.
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: I was definitely counting all the potential pitfalls and like what wasn't happening.
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: Yes, all the things that are going wrong, all the things that need to be fixed, everything that is lacking within us for some reason.
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: Our brains are really good at that.
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I think society too, like it's really like going against the norm of like what, what we hear in society.
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: You know, like going to a fertility doctor and having him tell me like, well, yeah, you can try this without IVF, but you know, basically, basically he really didn't think it was ever going to work and so I don't know.
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: So it's just really, um, going against that and just believing that, well, it has happened for someone and so then maybe it could happen for me and and I think you then you really helped me with that also but I just think that all the time now, well, someone's done this before, so, like someone else can too right, absolutely.
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: And I've been using that mantra for over a decade because we've got statistics right, like we have all these numbers, we know that this is a possibility.
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: And then there's people who defy the statistics and just being able to have that little like poking a pin in a big old dark belief that's like, oh, I can make a little hole in that belief.
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: It says like why not me?
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: Why can't I be the one to defy those odds, like that's often where the conversation begins.
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: And then there is a great shedding and almost like a just gently lifting layers, and some people go through that process much more quickly.
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: I feel like you actually shed a lot of layers really quickly and it could be like in an instant that something would click.
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: You could actually like see it in your eyes the moment.
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: You were like, oh, hold up, that's not true for me anymore.
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: And so it was really great to see.
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: But I know that a lot of times people out there will be wondering like well, what did you actually do to get pregnant at 45 years old?
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: And what I can prefer to reiterate over and over again is it's not always so much about the doing.
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: It's like who are you being, as you are doing these things?
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean, yeah, I did do a lot of things, and I don't know what one of those things was the thing that helped the most, but I can tell you, like what I also did was, spiritually for me, I had to just let go of a lot of ideologies and a lot of beliefs that weren't serving me.
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: I had to really also become really okay in my life where it was, and so for me to do that, it was like a switch from thinking about all the things that could go wrong or are wrong to what is going right and what is happening.
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: And you know so.
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: You know I was really at that time I had gained 30 pounds.
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: I went on to gain like 40 more, but at that time I was still upset about the 30 pounds and instead of focusing on how frustrating that was, I started focusing on like, well, you can still walk to a mock, or you can still go walk the dogs and your body is still able to do this and that, and so these like really subtle shifts in my thinking, I believe was instrumental to being receptive and open to more shifts in my body, and so I think that was, that was the biggest thing for me, like I did take a ton of vitamins, I did do acupuncture, I stopped drinking I, you know, I got rid of all the plastic in my house and I had all glass things.
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: And, dave, he had to do stuff too.
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: You know, it wasn't just me.
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: He had to get on board and he had to stop drinking and stop, you know, eating chick-fil-a all the time.
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: She's so, yeah, and so both of us did make some like very Concrete, like things that you can see, shifts.
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: I, dave, he's always been better at just like, I guess, being more happy with wherever he is.
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: He's just that guy and I'm not, like I'm, I'm very critical.
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: So for me it was a big shift to be, instead of focusing on what wasn't right in my life, including not having a baby, and focusing on the another potential miscarriage, was focusing on like, well, I still getting my period, so there's still a possibility.
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: I'm, you know, I'm still able to walk.
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: I'm still, you know, I'm not like so overweight that you know you're pushing me around in a chair.
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: So, like you know, just thinking of of what was happening, that was correct and I believe that is something that has stuck with me.
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: I don't take 25 vitamins anymore every day, but I do wake up and say what is going right and I think that, like letting go and that surrender, is what really helped open up a lot of different blessings that have come in since then.
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and so one of those blessings being your baby girl, yeah.
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: Can you tell us a little bit more about what was occurring around the time that you actually ended up conceiving?
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: Okay, so I had been doing real estate now for almost a year.
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: I had for the first time in my adult life because I was a stay-at-home mom and before I got divorced I really had never worked full-time.
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: For the first time in my adult life, I had more than $2,000 in my checking account and I was feeling really stable and like grown up and positive, and that was really like a security feeling.
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: And Dave and I had been married now for a year and we were really enjoying each other.
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: And, um, and I remember I came and talked to you like right around the time I would be would have been ovulating, which was like I remember the exact day.
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: It was May 11th of 2023.
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: And there's a Saturday and the next day was Mother's Day and I was thinking, I think I was talking to you and just saying you know, I'm just not going to get pregnant until I get into the best shape of my life and I just can't do it because of you.
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: You know all the reasons.
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: I just, at that time, I just really couldn't.
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: I was, I was just focusing on other stuff and it was hard for me to to get there.
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: And he said, well, you don't know anybody who's you know a little, who's overweight, that's been pregnant before.
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: And then I was like, well, yeah, you know.
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: And then I was like, well, yeah, you know, like my, my best friends, I have two kids, you know.
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: And then we did that session and I literally felt something like pop in my body, like I was like you were like I think maybe that's a limiting belief you can like let go of now.
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: And I did.
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: I just let it go.
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: I was like, yeah, actually, people who are, you know, overweight get pregnant all the time.
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: And then the next day I got pregnant.
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: It was so crazy, but I didn't know that until you know, weeks later.
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: But I will never forget that it was just so funny to me.
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, when it was a couple weeks later and you texted me like I'm so sorry to text on your cell phone but like what is this?
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: And it was the positive pregnancy test, and we kind of debriefed what had been going on.
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: And I remember when you came out of acupuncture that day you were like man, I felt like a pop in there and I wasn't too surprised because you always had some interesting experiences with acupuncture, but it was like, oh cool, well, how nice that you were able to let that go and and really truly see, like, yes, all different body types get pregnant.
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: It happens all the time.
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: Why not me?
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that was a real breakthrough and I use that now for lots, of, lots of things.
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: You know, people start new careers in the middle of their life.
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: They're fine.
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they do.
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I know I joke that I neuro-linguistic program deal.
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: You did have to use the powers for good.
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: It worked.
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: It was still with me but yeah, I think really believe that, was it like that?
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: I mean, I totally remember you saying to me that you thought it was a limiting belief that I could probably let go of now and I was like I just really I really was like, yeah, I can do that.
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: I was ready to hear that and I was really I guess I was really ready to let that go because it had been one of those things that I was holding onto that wasn't serving me anymore and I, I think I knew that somewhere in my subconscious.
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, before we, I do want to eventually talk about what your experience was like with this pregnancy, having had previous losses, and what tools and resources you use to go through that.
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: But before we do, I do want to talk about some of the experiences you had with acupuncture, because I don't know if it's just the way I work or if everyone has these experiences with acupuncture, but it seems like people in my world tend to have like very interesting spiritual experiences when they are in that state of having the needles in and you get into that like nice floaty place where you have I don't know, access to your subconscious and beyond.
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: Do you recall some of those experiences that you had during acupuncture?
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: I can remember, like almost seeing a baby's face, like come to me.
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: I mean, I had so many weird experiences.
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: I had experiences where I would just feel I don't know just things letting go, things leaving me, and I wasn't even really sure what it was, but I would just feel like there was this, this letting go.
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: And then then I can also remember like seeing different visions.
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: It was so weird sometimes or, yeah, I think that was probably the most thing.
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: I remember actually seeing stuff, and I had not done a lot of acupuncture before that, but I do remember the two times I had done it before it.
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: I literally wanted to like rip the needles out of me and leave.
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: Like maybe you just weren't ready, or yeah, and it was.
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: I wasn't trying to get pregnant at those times.
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: I was like doing it for different, like injuries, and one time was because I was trying to get pregnant and I actually could, I felt like it was doing the opposite.
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, wow, it was different.
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: So I I don't know if it's because I was ready or, like you know, I think a lot of it has to do with you, because you are spiritual and you kind of help guide people into being in the right state of mind before going into acupuncture too, and I think that's really helpful.
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: But uh, but yeah, this time, every time I would go there, I would just I would have these like crazy, like feelings and visions and sensations that felt otherworldly.
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, do you mind me sharing one of the specific ones that always, like I've just always remembered you like telling me, as we would take the needles out, like what came that day and you had mentioned to me.
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: You were like, yeah, well, okay, so today was a wild one.
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: The spirits of like all of the babies that have come through me and not stayed earth side came to basically thank me for actually embodying the lessons that they were meant to teach me.
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: And now I realize that with each one, I made like a significant change and like, like, with this one, I stopped smoking, and with this one, I stopped drinking, and with this one, I realized that, like, it's just really time to take care of myself and my relationship, and that I like that I do want a baby, like I do really want this.
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: And they were there to show me that, like I was doing it, and that one has, like always stayed with me in such a powerful way.
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I remember that actually very well.
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: Like every I, I did feel like that that they each, each loss, like taught me something, and it was one was.
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: One was like Okay, it's time for you to stop smoking.
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: Like, who does that anymore?
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: It was kind of like, yeah, you're right, little baby, it's time, and it was to stop drinking.
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: And then, um, one of them was like it was time, yeah, it's time, to just like do you really want this?
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: And then, and then it was like, okay, and then the was, uh, it's time to get your finances in order.
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: And, and that's when I went.
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: And then I had this other experience that told me very specifically that, like, everything I wanted was on the other side of um, you know, I had to get.
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: I forget there was three things that I had to do, but I remember one was like go get your real estate license.
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: Um, get really sober, like in a real way, though, not just like and I wasn't like, you know, I didn't smoke 27 cigarettes a day or anything, but I was like using smoking and drinking as a coping mechanism.
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: And so it was like it, you know, you know, get it together and figure out some like more sustainable, healthy ways to like deal with our lives.
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: And when people are dealing with losses, we're not really given a manual for how to process that.
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: It's like often a okay, these things happen or we'll.
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: Of course, it's more likely to happen You're over 40, but when we can step out of that very narrow Western lens and look at it as like this is a whole life's path, we don't have control over it, but if there's something that I can learn from it, a wisdom that I can take from it that could make my life better down the line, let's do that.
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and was there, was there anything specific that allowed you to do that?
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: Because I know there might be people wondering like, well, how do I get to that point of being open to that wisdom and receiving it to?
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: that wisdom and receiving it.
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: I think that, um, like having a pregnancy loss is so sad, um, it's so devastating and, in a way, and bringing a life into this world is always there, is always a spiritual aspect to it, and so why wouldn't there be when we lose something too?
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: And, um, and I do think that there's a lesson that we can always be learning in whatever loss we have in our lives.
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: You know, and for I had to believe it was something else, I really felt it inside of me, but also, it's just, it's too sad to just let it just be tragedy.
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: You know, there's always, you know, and I just, and I've always believed that something good can come out of, you know, the mud.
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the mud, yeah.
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: So when you did get pregnant and you've had these past experiences that, for a lot of people, have very real capability of clouding the current experience what were your coping mechanisms, what were the tools that you used to go through that pregnancy?
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: Okay, so I was thinking about this the other day and have you heard that Indigo Girls song?
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: Like I went to the desert, I went to the mountains.
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: You went all those places.
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: I was like, okay, what can can I do here?
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: What can I do here, what?
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: What medicine can I take?
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: What?
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: What person can I consult?
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: What psychic can I call?
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: Like I basically like pulled in anything that I I I went like a little over the top because I I really really wanted this baby.
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: You know, we do, we all really want our babies.
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: And once I made it past like I assume, like I usually lost my babies between six and eight weeks, and so once I made it past like the eight week mark, then I was like, okay, I need to call psychic, I need to go, do I need to be hypnotized?
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: I need to, I need to do and I just basically did that all these things, I need to pray, I need to go to church, I need to do all the things and I basically did that until I was out of the like danger zone.
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: So I don't know if that is like really great advice, but this is the reality.
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: The reality is getting pregnant after loss doesn't necessarily mean that you are purely at peace and present and joyful.
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: Like most people do spiral a bit, and I think that there are potentially more helpful paths of spiraling, especially when you're willing to ask for help and when we did do something.
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: So we did.
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: We did a hypnosis.
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: Um right, while you were in that window of like uncertainty and um, you know, I remember like put our phones in like do not disturb mode, and we get to a point you were like I really just want to like connect with her spirit so that I like know that she's safe and she's actually like coming through.
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: And so that's what we set the intention for the session and walked you down into the trance state and, like, as soon as I snapped my fingers and say, like, like, as we come around the corner, we connect with her spirit, your phone rang.
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: It scared the shit out of both of us.
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: And what did your phone say?
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: It said spirit because there was a realtor in town that wanted to, like, go look at one of my listings and his name is spirit.
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he came up on my phone, spirit.
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: We were like what?
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: I mean, there's just been too many crazy things that just sound like so out of this world to not believe that things happen that are out of this world.
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: Yes, that's all I can say, too, as a as a person who was raised in science and like, literally immersed in science for the most of my education, like I really did not embrace this woo woo side of things, which I don't I don't even like the term woo woo for it, because it's like this is just a reality of like there are miracles that happen, there are ways of communicating with the spirit realm that, like I don't know that science will ever be able to document or measure.
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: But this is the truth that we have lived and witnessed.
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, there's no denying it and I think that, and I guess that's why also taking it back to like how do, how do you connect with those losses of your, of your babies you know that, potential babies how do you connect with those?
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: Is this belief that I can't?
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: I can't deny it anymore.
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: There's been too many things over the last three years that have happened that don't make any like scientific sense, and so, and also it's just kind of more fun too.
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: That's true, it's really true.
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: It's just more fun, Like we can just keep saying, oh well, this is just because you know I have old eggs and this and that, Okay, that that might be what happened and also it might be teaching me something that I could do to be a happier, healthier, better person.
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: To be a happier, healthier, better person.
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: Even if it's like, even if I never got pregnant with Sylvie, I have been able to connect with other women about pregnancy loss in a way that I never could before and like be there and I've been helpful.
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: I think, having someone who's been through it many, you know, three times and I had a, I had a loss in between my first two kids in my twenties where I had a stillborn, and so, like these things, I feel like I, even if I never had Sylvia, I would still use this as an opportunity to connect with women, because we we need to connect with each other.
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: We do.
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: That's something that's lacking in our world.
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so much.
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: Right now you don't have to go through it alone and you don't have to blame yourself, and you don't have to.
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: sometimes things happen for other reasons yeah, that's a very important piece of wisdom that I hope everyone can take with them from this.
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: Is there any advice that you would have now for, let's say, like your 43, 44, 45 year old self?
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: I probably would have just told myself to chill out a little bit.
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: It was a little bit like I said.
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: I was like that Indigo Girls song but like not in the best way, a little desperate way, but I don't know.
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: Like that's just part of the journey.
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: I don't know if there really is anything.
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: It's just what I ended up telling myself is probably what I would still tell myself, which was miracles can happen.
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: They can happen to you and your life is still good either way.
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's still good things happening, even if it doesn't include baby Sylvie I'm really glad that she's here but but that's what I would have to kept telling myself and that's probably what I would still tell myself to do.
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: And is that what you would tell anyone else who might be listening?
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: And in that place of trying all the things and blaming themselves and feeling isolated and desperate.
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I would try to just say like to have faith that things do usually end up working out the way they're supposed to and then it can happen.
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: And don't let like all the people.
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: You know, when I got so mad at my doctor, I'm not in a mean way, but I just kind of she goes, she goes.
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: You know, there's a 1 in 18 chance that your baby's gonna have Down syndrome or some sort of other chromosomal disorder, I was like but that's a 97% chance, it won't, you know.
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: So there's, that's a.
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: Those are pretty good odds, you know, I'll take those, you know.
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: So I think that just trying to look at things like, okay, maybe you'll have more pregnancy losses in your 40s and maybe you'll also have a totally perfectly healthy baby.
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: I mean, halle Berry had a baby at 48 without IVF and it wasn't just cuz she's famous, we just know about it because it's famous.
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: I think that there's other people who have had babies.
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: I know there are because I.
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: That was one of the things that I'm a bit obsessive and I would like scour the internet for any example that I could find of women who are older than me who had perfectly healthy babies.
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: Yes, and that's I approve that use of the internet.
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: Because the flip side of that is the doom scrolling of looking at all of the people who have had pregnancy losses in their forties, chromosomal abnormalities in their forties, children who had disabilities.
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: That just makes more fear and we, we don't have control over any of that.
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: But you do have control over what you choose to digest, including.
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: You know what you're putting in your body, but also the content you consume.
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: So when you can make that shift into like I'm going to find examples of people who have done this.
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I even went through my like cause, my family's historically Mormon, and so we have this like whole ancestry where I can go back really, really, really far.
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: And so I went back through and I looked at like I can't even tell you, I must've gone back like a thousand years.
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: I felt like whatever they could, whatever a far back it went, which is far um, and it would be like 47, you know, had a baby and that was, you know, 150 years ago you know all right, I've got this in my lineage.
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: We can do this you only live to be 52 or something, you know, like just so, I'm like that's like having a baby.
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: That's like Sarah in the bible, right, you know, like she had a baby at what 82 or something.
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: And the stories, um, I don't know if that's, you know, I don't really know how relevant like our times are and like how old they are, but I'm just saying like there are stories, there are stories of old women having babies, and then I found it in my ancestry and then I found it on the internet and I've also done the doom scrolling too and I just feel better not doing doom scrolling because you know, I don't know if, I don't know if that's going to change the outcome of anything, but what if thinking positive does I mean?
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: At the very least, you just feel better.
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: You feel better.
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: I know for me, like when I've had situations where I I could easily go down the rabbit hole of like what is the worst case scenario in this particular situation.
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: It's like I physically, like feel the constriction in my body and how that fear and anxiety manifests, Whereas if I choose to go, what is the best situation, what is the best case scenario of the situation?
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: And I search for that.
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: Instead, it's like, oh, okay, this can work out.
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: It's like I can palpably feel the change in that and like, oh okay, there's a possibility here that things work out and I can actually feel the relief of that.
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I can use my attention in a way that really empowers me in this moment, even though we don't know what the outcome is going to be.
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: You know and that's another thing I'd like to say before, I don't know if I'm going to you're going to cut me off soon, so I want to say it really fast.
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: I just thought of is, like during this time, during this whole time, like I was so sad.
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: I was so sad from like 2019 until like 2022, and and part of like me seeking out help from you, like I was, you know, going to the mountains and going to the doctors and doing all of the things um, I also realized that, um, beating myself up, which is what I would do originally, that was my go-to is beat myself up and go down.
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: Go down the like it's impossible road and everything's, you know, not good, I'd use a different word, but I'm on public care, so you can drop whatever you need.
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: We dropped it all.
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: Everything's fucked, everything's going bad, I'm getting fat, nothing's happening, and like I'm an old ballet dancer, so it was like a big deal for me and I just stopped.
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: And then and then it was like COVID and all the other things and I I was a lot of anxiety and a lot of fear and a lot of that wasn't helping me with my relationships or I'm with myself and with other people, and so I stopped watching news, I stopped doing anything that made me feel anxiety, cause I was like I'm, I'm making myself sick, you know, and then I, and then I was just having miscarriage after miscarriage after miscarriage like every year there was a miscarriage and um, and so I just stopped watching the news, I stopped reading all of the horrible things.
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: If there's, I stopped.
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: I can't even watch like horror movies, like anything that would make me feel anxious or sick or uncomfortable in that way.
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: I just stopped.
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: I just stopped doing it.
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: So I know, like, if the news is on, I leave.
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: If, like, somebody wants to watch a horror movie, I'm out, like I just can't do.
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: And I'm still that way, like I really really protected as much as I could what I could protect, and I knew that, like even if, like, we're not even talking about pregnancy, we're just talking about, like our, our hormones and our cortisol, like having that kind of anxiety and stress and fear all the time, and then couple that with also like trying to force your body to do something like have a baby and get pregnant, I just feel like they're don't match.
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: And they don't.
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: I agree with you on that front and I think that's why in the in the brilliant fertility program that's one of like, the first things we do is going to learn how to protect our energy.
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: And I think that can be challenging for people who are conscious of what's happening in the world and they want there to be more good in the world.
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: And when you become aware that, like, there's a lot of suffering and there's hate and there's things that are hard that we want to fix but we don't have control over, when you are a conscious person, that can feel really challenging.
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: To say like I'm not going to watch the news because it can make you feel like, well, does that mean I'm a bad person and I don't care?
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: But it's like we, this is this timeframe when you are focusing on creating life and protecting your energy and learning how to gather tools to regulate your emotions.
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: It's like it is a really sacred time and trusting that went by you doing that and creating this really safe environment.
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: Or like you feel safe.
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: Your mind and your body and your spirit feel that safety Like that is often when we have those breakthrough moments and that soul that's already been waiting to come in, and watching for the right time is like, oh okay, cool, like now I feel safe too and I can come in.
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think we can do that, and, and how I justify is I tried to do good things in my world, you know, and so I can't, I can't control like I'm not going to go to DC, I'm not going to be a lobbyist, I'm not going to go, I'm not in a space where I can actually like be boots on the ground in that way, but what I can do is be boots on the ground in like trying to spread love and care and empathy to whoever I'm around and with and connection, you know, like our connection with each other as like humans, and so that's what I try to do instead and I just like focus on that.
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and that has a ripple effect, because you never know who might have needed that love and empathy to have the strength to then go be boots on the ground, so trusting that you're enough, you're doing enough and that you don't have to consume all the horrors of the world to be on top of everything.
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: And I'm.
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: I'm also with you on the horror movies.
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: I can't watch it anymore either, and it started for me in pregnancy, like when I was pregnant with my first son.
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: I was like, oh no, this is no longer acceptable.
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's like romantic comedies Anything funny, any romantic comedy, anything funny, anything heartwarming.
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: I can do that, but yeah, I just think we can change the world and our spaces without poisoning our soul.
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: That's a really good way to put it.
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: Well, erica, thank you from the bottom of my heart for having this conversation with me today, for being open to all of the wisdom of all of your babies to make the transformations that you've made in life.
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: It's been such a gift to be a witness to everything that you've manifested and see how healthy you are now compared to even, you know, three, four years ago.
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: It's just incredible.
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: And thank you for sharing the stories that other people can hear, what might be possible.
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's all possible and I really thank you for letting me be on here, because it's something I feel really passionately about, and if I could like yell to everyone out there and just tell them like miracles happen, I would, so thanks for letting me do that today.
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for being here.