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Episode 130 - 'BDSM Mismatch' The Padded Cell Podcast · The Padded Cell Podcast

0:00
SPEAKER_00: Are you a deviant?
0:01
SPEAKER_00: You know, like those of us who binge-watch serial killer programmes, laugh at the stupid stuff people do, and revel in anything adult?
0:10
SPEAKER_00: Well, you found your people! Join us as we crack open the doors to Path of Cell and release the insanely stupid, the weirdly wonderful, and those who choose to live outside societal norms.
0:21
SPEAKER_00: We develop into the strange, the macabre, the sexy and the outrageous! So, if you're a deviant, then you have your place in the Path of Cell.
0:37
SPEAKER_00: This is a bit of an order.
0:38
SPEAKER_00: I'll just do what we're talking fuck it.
0:40
SPEAKER_00: Ready?
0:41
SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm ready, yeah.
0:42
SPEAKER_00: Good.
0:42
SPEAKER_00: Hello.
0:43
SPEAKER_00: We're on camera.
0:43
SPEAKER_00: Hopefully.
0:44
SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah.
0:45
SPEAKER_00: Well maybe we are.
0:46
SPEAKER_00: Maybe, yeah.
0:46
SPEAKER_00: Maybe we are.
0:47
SPEAKER_00: We're just having a little test.
0:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
0:49
SPEAKER_00: And welcome to episode 130 with Andy.
0:51
SPEAKER_03: Hello.
0:52
SPEAKER_03: How are you?
0:52
SPEAKER_00: Andy and his legs.
0:53
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I'd have thought, you know, like I came a bit formal last time and that, and you know, because like health is my life and all that shit.
1:00
SPEAKER_03: Like came on my bike and I thought I'd treat us all treat you all to the legs.
1:03
SPEAKER_00: You've treated me to your legs, but how brown are they?
1:06
SPEAKER_00: We've just been saying how brown you're all.
1:08
SPEAKER_03: Right, by the couple of days of sunlight, they're getting to, you know, what they should be, like.
1:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, very good.
1:12
SPEAKER_00: I'm very impressed.
1:13
SPEAKER_00: Mine's staying firmly in my jeans.
1:15
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you're supposed to give all you padded salads a treat.
1:17
SPEAKER_00: Woohoo! They're all reaching for the sick bags.
1:22
SPEAKER_00: I'm only joking, I'm only joking.
1:24
SPEAKER_00: Delete stream.
1:25
SPEAKER_00: Have you oh you probably wouldn't have listened to the last episode, yes, have you?
1:28
SPEAKER_00: I don't think you'll listen to any episode, yes.
1:30
SPEAKER_00: Not our last episode, the last episode that went out any on Thursday.
1:33
SPEAKER_00: You've been too busy, I think.
1:35
SPEAKER_00: Do you know what?
1:36
SPEAKER_00: I haven't, you know.
1:37
SPEAKER_00: It was me and Jimmy.
1:39
SPEAKER_03: No, I haven't.
1:40
SPEAKER_03: But like we were saying downstairs before, like everything's just uh blurred, right?
1:44
SPEAKER_03: Everything's just a friggin' whirlwind at the moment, you know what I mean?
1:47
SPEAKER_00: And shall we say why?
1:48
SPEAKER_00: Because that's where I was leading.
1:49
SPEAKER_00: In uh the last episode that I did with Jim, we obviously announced our news about leaving the club.
1:56
SPEAKER_00: Sure, why are you?
1:58
SPEAKER_00: Do you know what?
1:59
SPEAKER_00: Just for a minute when you were looking at me then, I was like, either either he doesn't want me to say, or he's changed his mind.
2:08
SPEAKER_00: Oh my god, please don't change your mind.
2:12
SPEAKER_00: I'm already like three corners of the night doing what I need to be doing to hand this fucking thing over.
2:17
SPEAKER_00: You can't back out now.
2:18
SPEAKER_03: No.
2:19
SPEAKER_00: No, you can, but please don't.
2:21
SPEAKER_00: Technically, yeah, but I mean Anyway, should we tell him what we're talking about just in case you all should have heard the last episode with me and Jim that were leaving townhouse, that were moving on.
2:32
SPEAKER_00: God, even saying it sounds a bit weird.
2:33
SPEAKER_00: It's not a bad thing, by the way.
2:35
SPEAKER_00: It's just like actually saying it out loud is making it really real.
2:38
SPEAKER_00: And every time I say, every time I say, and Andy and Sarah are gonna be taking over.
2:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
2:45
SPEAKER_00: Part of me just goes, woo-hoo, the other part's like that.
2:48
SPEAKER_00: Oh God, guys, I'm I'm really excited for you, but uh, whoo!
2:52
SPEAKER_03: It's a big thing, isn't it?
2:53
SPEAKER_03: It is a big thing, it's it's huge, it's like it's it's it's massive for you two, like you know, you've been staring that shit for so long, isn't it?
3:00
SPEAKER_03: Do you know what I mean?
3:01
SPEAKER_03: And it's from like a you know, like a personal point of view, it's it's fucking massive.
3:07
SPEAKER_03: It is huge.
3:08
SPEAKER_03: It's exciting.
3:08
SPEAKER_03: It it's it's friggin' terrifying as well, like, but it's exciting.
3:12
SPEAKER_00: What's terrifying about it?
3:14
SPEAKER_03: I just think it's because it's like the it's the fear of the unknown a bit, isn't it?
3:18
SPEAKER_03: Do you know what I mean?
3:19
SPEAKER_03: It's like I I've I've never I've never run a business before, you know.
3:23
SPEAKER_03: I mean I've you know, obviously, like you know, my background worked in the NHS for a while and that before that, like I worked in and managed pubs and what have you.
3:31
SPEAKER_03: And it's it's it's like but it's just it's a different uh it's a different it's just like a totally different ball game, isn't it?
3:38
SPEAKER_03: When you it's like you're at the top, and I mean I suppose when it's you know, draw the analogy of at the moment when I get stocking and stuff like that, it's your money.
3:49
SPEAKER_03: Oh yeah.
3:50
SPEAKER_03: Do you know what I mean?
3:50
SPEAKER_03: But now it's like shit, it's like you know, finding the money that you know, making sure that you're paying, you know, salaries and whatnot.
3:57
SPEAKER_03: It's just it's like a fear of the unknown, and I suppose like I suppose when you when you get to like sort of when you get to sort of our age, but you know, you you get a bit setting your ways and things, things don't quite register as quick as the as they used to, do you know what I mean?
4:11
SPEAKER_03: But um I'm like I keep saying to Sarah that's I'm fairly confident that like I think the first three three or so months of it's just gonna be like fuck, what are we doing?
4:21
SPEAKER_03: Do you know we haven't got a clue what we're doing then, but like it's like sort of like this time next year, it'll be a lot more like familiar in terms like we know we've got to do this, we've got to do that.
4:30
SPEAKER_00: You'll be surprised, you'll be surprised.
4:32
SPEAKER_00: You and Sarah have been running operations for ages anyway.
4:35
SPEAKER_00: It's more the business side and the money management, isn't it?
4:38
SPEAKER_00: You know, so whereas before you just like take my cards and just go p-ching.
4:42
SPEAKER_03: Well, yeah.
4:42
SPEAKER_00: Now it'll be like, okay, can we should we do this for Ching now, or should we just leave it until next week?
4:47
SPEAKER_00: Because we've got a busy weekend coming up.
4:49
SPEAKER_00: Let's just see, can we hang off a week?
4:51
SPEAKER_00: And it's not, you know, it's just good business management at the end of the day.
4:55
SPEAKER_00: And it'll come to you.
4:56
SPEAKER_03: It will do, it will do.
4:57
SPEAKER_03: Do you know what I mean?
4:58
SPEAKER_03: It's a it's just that I think the first three months is gonna be a bit of a like that's why I'm gonna be in the background.
5:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, you're not gonna be like one day, like I got a box, good luck.
5:08
SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm gonna be in the background just at the end of the phone or a text or whatever, because there's gonna be loads of things that you've never even heard of before, never mind, come across that I have.
5:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and there's not an awful lot in the industry, never mind, in the club, that I haven't seen or heard before.
5:22
SPEAKER_00: And if it is something that we haven't dealt with before, like something that happened a couple of years ago with our team, we got our heads together because we didn't know exactly how we were gonna deal with this.
5:32
SPEAKER_00: And it's gonna be exactly the same thing at the end of the day.
5:34
SPEAKER_00: We're landlords, but you know, but also your friends, yeah, and we want you to succeed, so we're gonna be behind you.
5:40
SPEAKER_03: Stop and what a cry on camera girl.
5:42
SPEAKER_00: Oh, let me just pause the camera.
5:45
SPEAKER_00: I've got a hanky butter choose.
5:47
SPEAKER_03: I'll tell you one thing that was funny, but one thing that did blow my mind about, and this was only um the acidity all the day before, but um the way the waste management company so sent me through like an agreement and all that, and you know the way you had to do like this electronic signature trying to do a fucking signature on his dad's screen, like do you know what I mean?
6:07
SPEAKER_03: But and then it was like and then it said like name and position, yeah.
6:12
SPEAKER_03: And I didn't put doggy style like, do you know what I mean?
6:14
SPEAKER_03: But but it was like it was like you know, where normally have written like general manager but company director.
6:21
SPEAKER_00: Exactly, yeah.
6:22
SPEAKER_03: I'd have felt souls as important.
6:23
SPEAKER_03: Did you?
6:24
SPEAKER_03: I did, yeah.
6:24
SPEAKER_00: And you want to get your name above the door, don't you, as a licensed?
6:26
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, I've always wants to do that.
6:28
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well Jim was made up doing that.
6:29
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's being a like, well when we did when we had, you know, when we had like the meeting and that to do sort of like announce the news to the team and all that, and we said about and it is it's it's something I've always I've always wanted, so make that happen.
6:41
SPEAKER_00: No, absolutely you should.
6:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it needs to be a bit of an occasion, I think.
6:44
SPEAKER_00: Like little kids.
6:46
SPEAKER_03: I do, you know what, I want a fucking red's ribbon and the pair of scissors and everything.
6:49
SPEAKER_00: I don't know whether me and Jim did something similar.
6:51
SPEAKER_00: I just I silly between us, I can't remember what it was now, but um he was just so chuffed putting that above the door.
6:58
SPEAKER_00: It only came down because we decorated and did all the artwork.
7:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm dead excited for you.
7:03
SPEAKER_00: It's gonna be great.
7:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and if you're watching this episode or listen to this episode, you don't know what we're talking about.
7:08
SPEAKER_00: Me and Jim talk about loads in the last one, and uh it's quite nice.
7:11
SPEAKER_00: We talk about some of our memories, but not the ones that we've talked about before because you've all heard loads of those before.
7:16
SPEAKER_00: But we talked about some things that people weren't expecting, and um I don't know, just like odd events and people that we've met, and it was a really nice episode going down memory lane.
7:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we'll see.
7:26
SPEAKER_00: And um, and also we've been asked recently um by Pearl to do our five best ever moments.
7:32
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, and you ever said to the other day where it was nice when you went out, me and Jim had a shandy at the bottom of the garden and whittled our list of like a hundred down to five.
7:40
SPEAKER_00: It was ridiculous, it was ridiculous.
7:43
SPEAKER_00: Um, but anyway, I'm not gonna talk any more about that.
7:46
SPEAKER_00: You'll have to listen to the last episode, um, and you'll have to watch social media for our five best bits because it's actually gonna go out is like a little bit of a thing.
7:53
SPEAKER_00: Apparently, I'm not doing it.
7:55
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
7:55
SPEAKER_00: I've got enough to do so desercers, um it's 19 days today.
8:03
SPEAKER_03: God, is it it's it's it's fucking coming, isn't it?
8:06
SPEAKER_03: Do you know what I mean?
8:07
SPEAKER_03: It is it's it is coming, like yeah, it is.
8:09
SPEAKER_00: I know you're fine.
8:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, it's not like one day I'm there and one day I'm not, you know.
8:13
SPEAKER_00: The end of the everything from the 30th to the first, it's just gonna look exactly the same to everybody else.
8:20
SPEAKER_00: Just behind the scenes is just a change of the guard, that's it.
8:23
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's just that it's it's like the fear of the unknown, and I think like just the first few months is gonna be a bit like, what the fuck are we doing?
8:30
SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
8:31
SPEAKER_03: Yeah can we do this?
8:33
SPEAKER_03: You know, and but eventually it'll be.
8:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we were the same, and we learned by our mistakes, but because we didn't have anybody behind us to go and ask, but you have so you will be absolutely and I appreciate that.
8:43
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, anyways.
8:45
SPEAKER_03: Good, good speaking speak for speaking for you there, girl.
8:48
SPEAKER_00: Speaking for the missus, yeah.
8:50
SPEAKER_00: That'll be the first and last time we do that, yeah.
8:54
SPEAKER_00: What did you say on that podcast?
8:57
SPEAKER_00: Right, we're gonna do some on this day's.
8:59
SPEAKER_03: Oh, go off.
8:59
SPEAKER_03: I love these.
9:00
SPEAKER_00: This is going out on the 16th of April.
9:03
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
9:03
SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
9:04
SPEAKER_00: Um I was like, that's 16th of April.
9:06
SPEAKER_00: What's it was 16th of April?
9:08
SPEAKER_00: But 15th of April, wasn't that Hillsborough?
9:11
SPEAKER_00: Was it 15th of April?
9:12
SPEAKER_00: Because I'm like, what the 16th?
9:14
SPEAKER_00: There's something significant, but I think the Hillsbury was the 15th or something.
9:16
SPEAKER_00: It was 15th.
9:17
SPEAKER_00: But we're not going to talk about that.
9:18
SPEAKER_00: We're going to talk about some other stuff.
9:20
SPEAKER_03: We're all city member that day, aren't we?
9:22
SPEAKER_03: I was on my paper-round.
9:24
SPEAKER_00: I was on my paper-round, and um my mate Eddie, I don't know whether he watches this, was um on his bike and he came fucking flying up the road to where I was delivering my papers.
9:34
SPEAKER_00: And he went, Have you heard what's happening?
9:36
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, What?
9:37
SPEAKER_00: Anyway, as he says it, people were coming out in the streets and you'd hear tellies going, and our mate Michael was there with his family.
9:43
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
9:43
SPEAKER_00: And we didn't know if he was going to be alright anyway, we found out it was going to be okay.
9:46
SPEAKER_00: But it's one of those things, isn't it, that you all know where you were, what you were doing at that time.
9:50
SPEAKER_00: And like you say, we were young enough, we were in our teenagers, early, early teens, to remember and remember the fallout from it all and everything, don't we?
9:57
SPEAKER_00: You know?
9:58
SPEAKER_00: If you don't know what that is, because we've got international watchers and listeners, um, Hillsborough is a disaster that happened um uh between Liverpool fans and Sheffield Wednesday fans in their ground in Hillsborough.
10:10
SPEAKER_00: It wasn't away game, wasn't it?
10:11
SPEAKER_03: It was at it was at Sheffield, it was at Sheffield Wednesday's grounds, but it was in the days when they used to before they stopped having the semi-finals at Wembley, so it was Liverpool against Nottingham Fox.
10:21
SPEAKER_03: Oh, that's right.
10:22
SPEAKER_03: Sheffield Wednesday's ground.
10:23
SPEAKER_03: 1989 it was back in the day.
10:25
SPEAKER_00: Back in the day, back in the day.
10:28
SPEAKER_00: And uh there's a big crush, yeah, wasn't there, in the cup.
10:31
SPEAKER_00: And I'm sure that's that's probably jogs your memory now, you know.
10:35
SPEAKER_00: If you don't know about it, Google it.
10:36
SPEAKER_00: I don't know, there's many people that don't, to be honest with you.
10:38
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but I think like you're saying, like, if people are like listening from like sort of other countries and that they might not necessarily if you're from the UK or you've got an interest in football, you'll know about it.
10:48
SPEAKER_03: But if if not, Google, it was it was Atanders, and it for the likes of like me and Vicky, where we're with we're actually from the city of Liverpool and stuff, like it it affected everyone.
10:57
SPEAKER_03: Whether you were a Liverpool supporter or an Evertonian, it was it was an Anders stand, but anyway, let's crack off.
11:03
SPEAKER_00: 16th of April.
11:05
SPEAKER_00: Right, have you ever been to Madame Two Swords?
11:08
SPEAKER_03: I have.
11:09
SPEAKER_00: Which one?
11:10
SPEAKER_03: London.
11:11
SPEAKER_00: What'd you think?
11:13
SPEAKER_03: It was a long time ago.
11:14
SPEAKER_03: I I I liked it.
11:15
SPEAKER_03: Did you?
11:16
SPEAKER_03: I did I one takeaway from it was though that um I found that some of them some of the wax works were like fucking hell.
11:26
SPEAKER_03: I've just had to do with double takers that looked exactly like them.
11:29
SPEAKER_03: And then there was others where it was like it's it's it it's fucking great what they've done, but you can tell it's it doesn't really look like them the way some of them look like them.
11:39
SPEAKER_03: Do you know what I mean?
11:40
SPEAKER_00: Some of them are very, very realistic, aren't they?
11:42
SPEAKER_00: And I've seen some where the real person's been standing by their wax work and you're like that, Jesus, the dress the same and everything.
11:49
SPEAKER_00: You're like the the Michael Jackson one wasn't so great if I remember right.
11:52
SPEAKER_00: It was alright, but I was like, oh you know, you could really get a turn on Michael Jackson's wax work, and they didn't really Michael Jackson.
12:00
SPEAKER_03: Well, yeah, that's a whole new that's a whole left asold on its own, that it is, yeah.
12:05
SPEAKER_00: You don't want to hear my opinion on Michael Jackson's.
12:06
SPEAKER_00: I'm not a fan, aren't you?
12:08
SPEAKER_00: Have you seen the programme about the boys' stories?
12:11
SPEAKER_03: I've seen a few.
12:12
SPEAKER_03: He was I I I could go on, but I'm not going to.
12:16
SPEAKER_00: All I'll say is there's never ever a good reason why uh a male who is not related to you should share a bed with you when you're a teenage boy, or even younger.
12:26
SPEAKER_00: Younger.
12:27
SPEAKER_00: They were younger, weren't they, and then into the teenage years.
12:29
SPEAKER_03: Okay, I'm gonna bite, I'm gonna say it, right?
12:31
SPEAKER_03: Okay, so you remember the very first thing that came out about them.
12:34
SPEAKER_03: The kids was called Jordan Chandler.
12:36
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
12:36
SPEAKER_03: Rice.
12:37
SPEAKER_03: And this was this was a long time ago, Victor.
12:41
SPEAKER_03: I mean, like I mean I mean, I I don't know how long ago, but it was a long, long time ago, and this happened, and there was like this this allegation, and the parents like sort of brought something to the police and whatnot, and that um and it it eventually went to the to the situation where it was going to court and he paid the family off.
12:57
SPEAKER_03: He did.
12:57
SPEAKER_03: Now, if you had nothing to eyes, you'd fight.
13:00
SPEAKER_03: Why would you pay that family off?
13:01
SPEAKER_00: Because he's got all the money in the world to pay for the course, yeah.
13:04
SPEAKER_00: To take it through court and prove his innocence.
13:07
SPEAKER_00: So paying them off to me is guilt.
13:09
SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
13:10
SPEAKER_00: It is, it's he doesn't want it to go through court because things are gonna come out.
13:13
SPEAKER_03: If it is a being made, I've got you know what, I've I I can absolutely blow you out the walls with my money, so I'm gonna get the best solicitors, lawyers, whatever it is, and I'm gonna prove I didn't do it and he paid them off instead.
13:23
SPEAKER_03: And and like you say, that to me is an admission of guilt, and there's just been too many little things after it.
13:28
SPEAKER_00: When you can afford it's just AC wrong and when you can afford to go through the course, why are you?
13:34
SPEAKER_00: You know, and I can't afford to take something through course.
13:37
SPEAKER_00: If somebody accused me of something as serious as that, I I'd spend every last fucking penny that I've got to prove my innocence and nobody'd be getting paid off, and I'd put myself through hell day in, day out in the court to make sure I was proven innocent.
13:50
SPEAKER_03: Definitely.
13:52
SPEAKER_00: Anyway, Madam Two Swords, what right?
13:56
SPEAKER_00: So, the horror bit.
13:58
SPEAKER_00: Do you remember the horror house of horror bit?
14:00
SPEAKER_00: Vaguely.
14:00
SPEAKER_03: I was gonna say it was a long, long time ago when I went.
14:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I quite liked the uh the horror bit because it wasn't supposed to look like anybody, it was just like a torture chamber, really and I'm a bit of a a wrong myself in that sense.
14:11
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
14:12
SPEAKER_00: But do you know um how Madam Two Swords or how it all came about?
14:21
SPEAKER_03: I've I I I do, but I can't remember, and I'm not just saying that late, but I know there was like something a bit sinister about it, wasn't there?
14:29
SPEAKER_03: There was.
14:30
SPEAKER_00: So her real name is Marie Tussaud.
14:33
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
14:34
SPEAKER_00: And she was a very, very gifted uh wax sculpture in France during the French Revolution.
14:40
SPEAKER_03: Oh, straight away, here we go, go on.
14:42
SPEAKER_00: Does that give you any sort of clue?
14:45
SPEAKER_03: Was it kind of like you know, like when they were beyond like the royalty and the hollites and that was it like so she was sort of like making waxes out of like the sever's heads or something?
14:56
SPEAKER_00: Did you know what?
14:57
SPEAKER_00: Not far off.
14:57
SPEAKER_00: I'd give that a tick.
14:59
SPEAKER_00: If this was a quiz, I'd give you the point.
15:02
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
15:04
SPEAKER_00: So have a biscuit?
15:06
SPEAKER_00: Do you know what?
15:06
SPEAKER_00: I might have a little biscuit in a minute.
15:08
SPEAKER_00: You can beat anyway, because I'm the one talking.
15:10
SPEAKER_00: Anyway, do you like custard creams?
15:12
SPEAKER_00: Tomad are custard creams.
15:14
SPEAKER_03: Not chocolate, not like butt custard creams or all ice.
15:17
SPEAKER_00: These are really nice ones.
15:17
SPEAKER_00: Anyway, Jimmy's getting them from at the moment, they're lovely.
15:20
SPEAKER_00: Anyway.
15:20
SPEAKER_03: So do you custard creams a custard cream?
15:22
SPEAKER_00: Is it like no, it's a custard cream.
15:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's just something they're like the the vanilla in there.
15:28
SPEAKER_00: Oh, anyway, why the fuck are we talking about custard creams?
15:30
SPEAKER_00: They're really nice.
15:33
SPEAKER_00: I know.
15:34
SPEAKER_00: Anyway, she moved around royal circles.
15:36
SPEAKER_00: Who's this?
15:37
SPEAKER_00: Marie Toussaint! She moved around royal circles, and um it was a bit dangerous, wasn't it, around that time to be friends with the royals and that and very much so, yeah.
15:47
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, she was imprisoned as well briefly during the reign of terror, as they call it, and very close to execution herself, you know.
15:54
SPEAKER_00: Very close.
15:56
SPEAKER_00: But um she wanted to prove loyalty to the new regime, and so she some say she was forced, some say she wasn't she offered to create death masks of the guillotined nobles, including um Louis XVI and Marie Antoinette.
16:13
SPEAKER_00: She did their death mask.
16:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
16:15
SPEAKER_00: She was she they found that she was very, very guzzery, and so they basically took her on to just do death masks of anybody and everybody who was aristocracy and getting just as like a little reminder, a little memento.
16:28
SPEAKER_03: And she's made a killin also.
16:29
SPEAKER_00: She's absolutely made a killin'.
16:31
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely made a killin'.
16:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
16:33
SPEAKER_00: So, anyway, uh her job it it was to to create the mask, and obviously she's doing like a mould, but then to create it so it's like really, really lifelike, and almost like the person's asleep rather than dead.
16:46
SPEAKER_03: I've also got the side did they all come out gone?
16:51
SPEAKER_00: Can you imagine?
16:52
SPEAKER_00: Sculpt to the tongue nine house.
16:56
SPEAKER_00: So uh she preserved every detail, apparently.
17:01
SPEAKER_00: Um, and because she was so good at it, she became really, really well known.
17:05
SPEAKER_00: And um but after the reign of terror was over, she's obviously got this skill.
17:10
SPEAKER_00: Uh, what's she gonna use the skill for?
17:13
SPEAKER_00: And um she found that people were really fascinated by what she was doing because it almost like froze crime in its place or horror or whatever.
17:22
SPEAKER_00: Um, and uh on this she had this idea and she's like, Well, do you know what?
17:27
SPEAKER_00: I think I might make a few little few quid out of this, and she created the chamber of horrors, which is the bit that I like, and public queued round the block to go and see this chamber of horrors.
17:41
SPEAKER_00: Um, and the chamber of horrors was um uh reconstruction of murder scenes, and sometimes it was death masks of murderers who'd been and all this, so it was almost like preserving the the reality of the horrors that were going on at the time, and it really inspired people and literally she was making a fucking killing, and as we know, Madame Two Swords then spread out around France and then beyond the um it's become one of the biggest tourist attractions, probably around Europe.
18:11
SPEAKER_00: I don't know how far it spreads, but I've seen them all over the place.
18:15
SPEAKER_00: Some of them are a bit shit, actually.
18:17
SPEAKER_00: The Blackpool one within the Blackpool one being the Blackpool one.
18:20
SPEAKER_00: It's very blackpool.
18:22
SPEAKER_00: No offence, no offence.
18:24
SPEAKER_00: If you're from Blackpool, you know what I mean.
18:27
SPEAKER_00: Maybe you're proud of where you'd come from, I don't know, but it's always about that.
18:30
SPEAKER_00: Um some of them are better than others.
18:32
SPEAKER_00: Uh, but the one in London I think is really, very, very good.
18:34
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, that's where it all came from.
18:36
SPEAKER_00: It came from basically the French Revolution, her being imprisoned, um, trying to find a way out of her situation, befriending the right people, and basically being taken on to do these death masks.
18:49
SPEAKER_00: And she was really, really, really good at it and thought, right, I'm gonna make a career out of it.
18:53
SPEAKER_03: It's mad, isn't it?
18:54
SPEAKER_03: Like, because when you think about it like as a as a species, like with a bunch of rungs, aren't we?
18:58
SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah.
18:59
SPEAKER_03: Because, like, you know, like it started off as being like that kind of like seeing people's death masks and stuff, and it's being that popular that's it's grown from that, but it just proves like we're just like fascinated by it's like yeah, it is a question for you, right?
19:13
SPEAKER_03: So, you know, like when they when they did have guillotine and stuff like that, I mean fucking shitloads of people used to turn up to you know it's like going to match, wasn't it?
19:20
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, would you go?
19:20
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think I would, you know.
19:22
SPEAKER_03: I think there's just that curiosity, isn't it?
19:24
SPEAKER_03: Do you know what I mean?
19:24
SPEAKER_03: To see it happen.
19:26
SPEAKER_03: I mean, I I don't know whether like it'd be like kind of like I'd want to go and see a second one, but there's definitely that like yeah.
19:33
SPEAKER_00: Well, I did a whole series of five-part series and executions and the history of it and all that, going right the way back to like hanging and then like the drop knot noose and stuff like that, and why it came about.
19:43
SPEAKER_00: And I did a thing on the guillotines and all the rest of it, and the theme going right the way through from like ye olzy times, right up until modern times when people I know that it's still spectate executions in America now, but it's very small, isn't it?
19:57
SPEAKER_00: It's like a handful of people, but it wasn't that long ago, still a full full room full of reposers and everything.
20:02
SPEAKER_00: Um, and that that that's the theme running the way through is it's always had an audience, we've always been fascinated with death.
20:09
SPEAKER_00: We all and I'd say up until the late I'd say 19th century, people were taking picnics, it was a family day out, it was literally a day out to go and see this person getting killed.
20:22
SPEAKER_03: And some some some methods of execution are just like yeah, the nuts and the fucking all thought that up.
20:28
SPEAKER_00: And there's people selling things on the side, like you know, replica guillotines and all sorts of fucking things, you know, fruit to throw at people, rotten fruit.
20:36
SPEAKER_00: It's mad, it's absolutely mad.
20:38
SPEAKER_00: Anyway, we're gonna move on.
20:40
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we're gonna be chatting for ages.
20:41
SPEAKER_00: So, 16th of April, we're gonna move on from death to uh a fish type creature that was found alive, presumed to be extinct for 66 million years.
20:55
SPEAKER_00: Okay, you've probably seen pictures of this.
20:58
SPEAKER_00: Everybody's seen pictures of this.
21:00
SPEAKER_00: So, for millions of years, millions of years, scientists believe that it was just extinct, and there has been fossils found of this fish.
21:09
SPEAKER_00: I can't actually say it.
21:10
SPEAKER_00: You might have to Google it, mm-hmm.
21:13
SPEAKER_03: It's a fucking mermaid, isn't it?
21:14
SPEAKER_00: No, it's not a fucking mermaid.
21:16
SPEAKER_00: Right.
21:17
SPEAKER_00: Hmm Kell mmm kelak and fucking I'll Google it.
21:22
SPEAKER_00: Where's Google this?
21:23
SPEAKER_00: Right, go on.
21:24
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't matter that we're recording because you love all this chaos, don't you?
21:27
SPEAKER_00: I'll spell it for you.
21:28
SPEAKER_03: Just another second, I've got a focus because I'll I've put my contact lenses in because it wants to look younger.
21:35
SPEAKER_00: I leave my glasses on to hide the bags under my eyes.
21:39
SPEAKER_00: I was actually going to take the glasses off when we went out last night.
21:42
SPEAKER_00: Um but I genuinely just can't see a thing like the glasses anymore.
21:47
SPEAKER_00: You ready?
21:47
SPEAKER_03: Okay, so C O E Love A man you all C O E L.
21:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
21:54
SPEAKER_00: A C.
21:56
SPEAKER_00: A N.
21:58
SPEAKER_03: C H
22:00
SPEAKER_00: It's a big fucking extinct fish.
22:03
SPEAKER_00: I just don't know how to say it.
22:06
SPEAKER_00: Well, why would you say it first?
22:08
SPEAKER_00: Look at the pictures.
22:09
SPEAKER_03: How would you say it?
22:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
22:11
SPEAKER_03: Coal Coalicanth.
22:13
SPEAKER_00: What do you think?
22:14
SPEAKER_03: It's gotta be on it.
22:15
SPEAKER_03: It's a weird looking thing.
22:16
SPEAKER_00: Coalicanther.
22:18
SPEAKER_00: Coalicanth.
22:19
SPEAKER_00: Well, I've spelt it out for you now, so you can look it up.
22:22
SPEAKER_00: And I might actually um share some photos because it is a weird looking thing.
22:27
SPEAKER_00: Basically, to me.
22:28
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
22:29
SPEAKER_00: And all the teeth on it and everything, big fucking eyes.
22:32
SPEAKER_00: Let's have a look at it.
22:33
SPEAKER_03: Oh, we are in lots.
22:35
SPEAKER_00: So we thought it was extinct.
22:37
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
22:38
SPEAKER_00: It looks like it's in camouflage.
22:40
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
22:40
SPEAKER_03: Doesn't it?
22:43
SPEAKER_03: I always think that one all got a fish on.
22:45
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
22:46
SPEAKER_00: Anyway.
22:47
SPEAKER_00: So this was thought of being extinct for years, gone.
22:51
SPEAKER_00: Literally, never to be seen again.
22:53
SPEAKER_00: An odd fossil here and there, nothing more than that, and then one turned up alive.
22:59
SPEAKER_00: Um, and it was basically the first identified in modern times as we know it.
23:05
SPEAKER_00: We've known of it because of the fossils, and we've guessed what it looks like and how big it is, and all that kind of thing, but we just didn't know because it's prehistoric, it shouldn't be around.
23:17
SPEAKER_00: And they say its scales are like armour, they're as thick as armour on this thing.
23:23
SPEAKER_00: It's uh its body is heavy and it looks old, it doesn't look like a modern fish, however, you'd love to think a modern fish should look like.
23:37
SPEAKER_00: They're like little limbs, and it's really fleshy.
23:41
SPEAKER_00: That the foot when you see the fish, it looks dead fleshy and it's articulated, it's jointed.
23:47
SPEAKER_00: So it's like evolution at some point has realized you don't really need fish like that.
23:52
SPEAKER_00: You don't need jointed fish.
23:54
SPEAKER_00: You just need to have a spine and and and fins.
23:57
SPEAKER_00: That's it.
23:58
SPEAKER_00: It moved really slow, and some say it was like an eerie grace because it is so huge, like these little things going on.
24:05
SPEAKER_00: It's a white, it's little things going on.
24:10
SPEAKER_00: So just airy grace.
24:12
SPEAKER_00: Um, and um it's it's not just a rare fish, it's a creature that's like the think it's lives in the deep, deep, deep, deep ocean.
24:24
SPEAKER_00: The other part of the ocean that we just we haven't discovered yet.
24:28
SPEAKER_00: Because of the size of it, it's got this dead thick armour type um scales.
24:34
SPEAKER_00: It's they think it's had to have lived in like really extreme conditions where it maybe needs to hide out for a little while.
24:41
SPEAKER_00: Or maybe like the camouflage it's got there, maybe in like really deep sea, which is like dark and green and all that kind of thing.
24:49
SPEAKER_00: I don't I'm I'm not too sure, but the the reckon that it's lived in conditions that are impossible for most species to live in.
24:56
SPEAKER_00: How big are they?
24:57
SPEAKER_00: Huge.
24:58
SPEAKER_00: So um they they've come in all different sizes, basically, but on average, the they're probably a good like six, seven foot and and wide.
25:08
SPEAKER_00: It's more wide than anything.
25:10
SPEAKER_00: It's much like chunky, big, big, big fish.
25:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
25:14
SPEAKER_00: Huge, yeah.
25:15
SPEAKER_00: So it's not like a mammal, so it's like a whale that's like fucking metres long, it's still a fish, but it's a big fucking fish.
25:23
SPEAKER_00: Anyway, so this thing's been found, and now they're thinking, hmm, is there more of these things to be found?
25:30
SPEAKER_00: They still haven't found any.
25:31
SPEAKER_00: Um, but what they what they know from this from finding it now is that it moves around in the the dark, it doesn't need to reach for light, like some fish.
25:42
SPEAKER_00: They'll uh they'll live in the dark, but they'll they'll go to the light every now and then.
25:46
SPEAKER_00: They know that these things don't have to find light at all at any point, and they think that this has possibly um come to the surface looking for food because we know that the oceans are emptying basically as food, like the way sharks are now coming in closer to shore and stuff like that.
26:02
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
26:02
SPEAKER_00: We've all seen those shark attacks in Australia.
26:05
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, there's been loads of.
26:07
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
26:08
SPEAKER_00: Uh so they reckon that it's it's coming up just like sharks, and I think nearer to civilisation and people, if you like, and come on to maybe where the ships are throwing the scrap, you're like fishing vessels and that because the food is just it's it is becoming extinct at the bottom of the ocean.
26:23
SPEAKER_00: And these things they they reckon they can live for years and years and years.
26:27
SPEAKER_00: It might be that they go like dormant for a little while when maybe food isn't quite as so prevalent, and then they they come out again when there's food.
26:35
SPEAKER_00: But they think that this thing might have just been lying dormant for a little while, it can just like sleep for years and news and years and years.
26:41
SPEAKER_00: It's interesting, very, very, very interesting.
26:44
SPEAKER_00: Um, and the thing it's like a ghost from like prehistoric times, basically.
26:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
26:49
SPEAKER_00: Um and it's just mad, isn't it?
26:52
SPEAKER_00: After all these years, we've we've mapped the deep sea as far as we can go.
26:56
SPEAKER_00: Um, and you know, age of satellites, we can see all sorts of things, you know, that we didn't see before, but there's still these unusual, like beautiful, mad, weird, prehistoric creatures that are still coming to the surface now.
27:10
SPEAKER_00: What else is down there?
27:12
SPEAKER_00: Have you seen the big jellyfish that light up?
27:14
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
27:15
SPEAKER_00: Would you go down there in one of them captual things?
27:19
SPEAKER_03: If you knew you were gonna be safe, how do you know you're gonna be safe, then people who went down in that friggin' thing to have a look at the Tisanoc thought they were safe, didn't he?
27:27
SPEAKER_03: And then I don't know.
27:29
SPEAKER_03: I'm I'm I'm too scared these days.
27:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, do you know what?
27:32
SPEAKER_00: I mean, no, when I was younger, I used to be like that, fuck it, yeah, I do that.
27:35
SPEAKER_00: No problem at all.
27:36
SPEAKER_00: No problem at all.
27:38
SPEAKER_00: Now, I just a bit more aware of my mortality.
27:41
SPEAKER_00: Exactly and I want to keep my feet firmly on the ground, don't get me wrong, flying and all, that's fine.
27:45
SPEAKER_00: But being adventurous, I don't know whether I'd do a bungee jump now.
27:50
SPEAKER_00: And literally, maybe five years ago I would.
27:52
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and I'm a bit like that.
27:53
SPEAKER_03: I'd I'd I'd parachute before I did a bungee jump.
27:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and but you can only parachute now if you're tandem, so you wouldn't be on your own anyway.
28:00
SPEAKER_03: No, I know that, like, but I mean it if like if you were given the option to jump out of a plane with a parachute on or do a bungee jump, gun gun see your res.
28:09
SPEAKER_00: Well, I parachute jump.
28:11
SPEAKER_00: I do a parachute jump without a gun to me head.
28:13
SPEAKER_00: I've got that thing, um what's it called?
28:16
SPEAKER_00: Into the void, or what's it called what's it called?
28:18
SPEAKER_00: Now I did it on the podcast.
28:19
SPEAKER_00: Call the void.
28:21
SPEAKER_00: Where when you're at a high level, I I have it over bridges, you want to jump off desperately, and I've got to sit down to stop myself from jumping.
28:29
SPEAKER_00: That's how bad it is for me.
28:31
SPEAKER_00: The draw of jumping is too much.
28:34
SPEAKER_00: So partially jump, I wouldn't have a problem.
28:36
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
28:36
SPEAKER_00: Bungee jumping, now of my age, I think.
28:39
SPEAKER_00: What have my knees dislocated?
28:42
SPEAKER_00: I'm at the age of I want to be in one piece when I come off the bungee jump, yeah, and I'm just thinking my knees might dislocate.
28:50
SPEAKER_03: There is that, isn't it?
28:51
SPEAKER_03: I I just I think with me now, it's like I don't know what it is like, but you suppose it is like a fear you know, mortality and stuff like that.
28:57
SPEAKER_03: But you know, when you read the news and you always hear like some such and such bizarre accidents, and like that's gonna be me one day, that you know I'm gonna be.
29:06
SPEAKER_03: That's the sister.
29:07
SPEAKER_00: You're gonna be the bizarre accident.
29:09
SPEAKER_00: Your bike's gonna be found somewhere really mad.
29:11
SPEAKER_00: Like, how does that happen?
29:12
SPEAKER_03: And I've just been disappeared with piss all over the place.
29:19
SPEAKER_00: Oh my god.
29:20
SPEAKER_00: They want the amount of people, I can't tell how many people that we've been talking in general, especially obviously since it's been announced that you're taking over the club, and the amount of times it's been brought into conversation somehow about your pissing.
29:35
SPEAKER_03: What a ways to start your podcast, couldn't you?
29:40
SPEAKER_00: Funny that, that's so funny.
29:42
SPEAKER_00: Right, we last on this day.
29:44
SPEAKER_00: Who was the first James Bond?
29:48
SPEAKER_03: Hang on.
29:52
SPEAKER_03: David and Ivan.
29:53
SPEAKER_00: No.
29:55
SPEAKER_00: Do you know all the James Bonds?
29:59
SPEAKER_03: He did do one, though, didn't he?
30:00
SPEAKER_03: It is a very early version of Casino Royale.
30:03
SPEAKER_00: It wasn't him.
30:04
SPEAKER_00: Who was it then?
30:05
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna tell you about it.
30:07
SPEAKER_00: Do you remember the James Bonds?
30:09
SPEAKER_03: James Lasenby is another one who did like did he do one, did he?
30:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
30:14
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you so you had like Sean Connery Dinner, Roger Moore, Timothy Dalton, Pierce Brosnan, and Daniel Craig.
30:24
SPEAKER_00: Has the latest James Bond been announced?
30:26
SPEAKER_03: No, not yet, I don't think.
30:27
SPEAKER_00: I thought I saw that it had been announced, but I didn't read it.
30:30
SPEAKER_00: So um the very first James Bond, his name was Barry Nelson.
30:37
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
30:38
SPEAKER_00: No, not ringing a bell.
30:39
SPEAKER_03: I thought it was David Everling already on.
30:42
SPEAKER_00: No, it's not.
30:43
SPEAKER_00: A lot of people think it's Sean Connery, or maybe it's George Lazenby, some people say.
30:47
SPEAKER_00: This guy was born 16th of April 1917.
30:50
SPEAKER_00: So he's born a long, long time ago.
30:52
SPEAKER_00: This is like one of them bits of trivia that you just need for a pupca's.
30:55
SPEAKER_00: It's gonna come up one day.
30:57
SPEAKER_00: It's gonna come up, and do you know what be the winning point of like that?
31:00
SPEAKER_00: You know, there's a good reason to go on that podcast.
31:02
SPEAKER_00: Learn something.
31:03
SPEAKER_00: Anyway, he was the first Bond, and um he wasn't like tuxedoed and shaken, not stirred, and all that, and he wasn't actually called in the actual film.
31:17
SPEAKER_03: Here we go, go on.
31:18
SPEAKER_00: He wasn't actually called in the film James Bond.
31:22
SPEAKER_00: He beat Sean Connery.
31:23
SPEAKER_03: It sounds like you reached this, but go on.
31:25
SPEAKER_00: He beat Sean Connery by eight years.
31:28
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
31:28
SPEAKER_00: So it's 1954, long before Bond became the polished cinematic version that we know now.
31:35
SPEAKER_00: He did an American television programme, uh live of Casino Royale, yeah.
31:43
SPEAKER_00: And it was like a part of an anthology series called Climax.
31:46
SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's just what the fuck.
31:48
SPEAKER_00: And Barry Nelson played Bond in Casino Royale, and it was live, it was live filmed on TV, um, but it wasn't very good, and the actual um screening of it was canned for a little while, it disappeared, but it has actually come back up, and you can see it.
32:05
SPEAKER_00: It is the secret agent created by Ian Fleming, so it's not like some other version, it is the Ian Fleming version, um, and it was rewritten at the time, and he was an American intelligence operative called Jimmy Bond.
32:18
SPEAKER_01: Go on.
32:18
SPEAKER_00: Jimmy Bond, yeah.
32:20
SPEAKER_00: Go on.
32:20
SPEAKER_00: Uh he sounds less like a deadly spy now, doesn't he?
32:23
SPEAKER_00: And more like some bloke that turns up to fix your boiler.
32:30
SPEAKER_00: Um, but um the whole thing was produced and performed live on TV, and um there was like layers of tension and chaos and all that the way you do in the the regular James Bond, but it just it just has this Americanism that you can imagine, the Jimmy Bond, almost like James Dean type thing.
32:50
SPEAKER_00: You know, it's it is Casino, they are playing around the table at one point, and rather than being like a tuxedo and like dead suave, yeah, it's just like with a cigarette, proper Jimmy Bond.
33:01
SPEAKER_00: It's just it's I'd say it's not bad, but it's not good either.
33:07
SPEAKER_00: It's typical for what you'd imagine of American TV at that time, live, some dodgy bits in it, some fluffed lines and all that.
33:18
SPEAKER_00: But it did pave the way, it was the first blueprint of the character, and they were almost like testing the water with the character, and this showed the whole writing and production team what it shouldn't be, yeah, basically, and that's why it was just pulled and stored away for a little while.
33:37
SPEAKER_00: Um, but the guy did actually go on to do quite a lot of other things uh later on, so even though this flopped, he really enjoyed doing it.
33:46
SPEAKER_00: He was the forgotten bond and he he didn't really bring it up very often.
33:51
SPEAKER_00: He didn't bring it up very often, he was almost like we're not gonna talk about that because I don't think he was like hugely proud of it, but I think it was his first live television thing, so he cussed his teeth on it.
34:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I don't think it was a great script either, from what I've seen, little bits of it, but it did form the blueprint for how it went on.
34:12
SPEAKER_00: And Ian Fleming was then like, yeah, it's not he's not gonna be American, he's gonna be British intelligence, he's gonna be suave.
34:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's a good one.
34:18
SPEAKER_00: And Casino Royale obviously went on to be an amazing film, but years later, so he cussed his teeth on it, but it didn't come out until obviously decades and decades later.
34:28
SPEAKER_00: So I don't know why.
34:30
SPEAKER_00: I wonder if maybe do you know what we're gonna leave Gasierel for a little while because some people might remember the shit version we did on American TV years ago.
34:38
SPEAKER_00: So we're gonna bring some of the boss ones out first, and when everybody's forgotten or they've died since that one came out, we're gonna renew it and do another version of it.
34:46
SPEAKER_03: There is definitely a version, no where Jet Words Aven plays, I'm sure of it.
34:50
SPEAKER_00: Well, do you know what?
34:51
SPEAKER_00: Look it up, yeah.
34:52
SPEAKER_03: Everybody up, who's your favourite Bonds?
34:54
SPEAKER_00: Um I would have said Pierce Brosnan because I I thought he was really good, but no, he's gotta be Daniel Craig.
35:00
SPEAKER_00: Should I happen?
35:01
SPEAKER_00: Because he's just rough and he's broke.
35:04
SPEAKER_00: He's broken.
35:05
SPEAKER_00: All the other bonds.
35:10
SPEAKER_00: It's the ice blue eyes, you know.
35:11
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
35:12
SPEAKER_00: He's just got them eyes that look into your soul.
35:16
SPEAKER_00: And I just love to fuck them everywhere.
35:20
SPEAKER_00: They're used to it, they're used to it.
35:22
SPEAKER_00: I've got a soft spot for Roger Morey, you know.
35:24
SPEAKER_00: He's just he's a bit cheeky, he's a bit spoofy for me.
35:28
SPEAKER_03: It was like the you know, like you just like the goose and the fit bears at the end with like a standard bond, isn't it?
35:38
SPEAKER_00: So for our international listeners, goosen is scout for for sex, for shagging.
35:47
SPEAKER_00: Goosen sounds a bit more trashy, but I love it.
35:52
SPEAKER_03: It's an educational chat.
35:53
SPEAKER_00: I don't think Bond would goose.
35:55
SPEAKER_03: No, he wouldn't, he'd be bonds would seduce yeah, he'd have like candles and like a proper like bottle of champagne and all that shit.
36:01
SPEAKER_00: Well, Roger Moore would, yeah, he'd but Daniel Craig wouldn't.
36:04
SPEAKER_03: No, Daniel Craig would fucking throw a chippy tea at you and then bend it over the table.
36:08
SPEAKER_00: Or shaggy on the lift.
36:09
SPEAKER_03: Shaggy on the lift.
36:10
SPEAKER_00: No in the cameras, yeah.
36:12
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, no on his cameras because he's because he's an edgy fucker.
36:16
SPEAKER_00: Yes, and so Sean Connery, no, for me.
36:20
SPEAKER_00: He was great and all that, but he was also still quite polished.
36:24
SPEAKER_03: But every the thing is though, Sean Connery, everyone goes, Oh, Sean Connery was the best one, wasn't he?
36:29
SPEAKER_03: But you've got to be a bit.
36:30
SPEAKER_00: No, he was too polished for me.
36:32
SPEAKER_00: Roger Moore was um very 60s, wasn't he?
36:35
SPEAKER_00: He's very much of his time, all very suave and his hair, nothing was out of place, he never did anything wrong.
36:43
SPEAKER_00: And if there was like, you know, something didn't go quite to plan, it was more like moments of peril, yeah, rather than fuck the whole world's gonna end, you know.
36:54
SPEAKER_00: Um and then I liked um It was the one, Timothy Dalton.
36:59
SPEAKER_00: Which film did he do?
37:01
SPEAKER_03: He did um He only says a couple, didn't he, Simothy Dalton?
37:08
SPEAKER_00: Can't remember, but yeah, I like quite liked him.
37:10
SPEAKER_00: I liked Piers Brosnan because he's beautiful.
37:13
SPEAKER_00: Beautiful.
37:14
SPEAKER_00: He's a good-looking fellow, like but he almost took it back to the swarve a little bit.
37:20
SPEAKER_00: Daniel Craig is basically James Bond, as you're reading as a character.
37:25
SPEAKER_00: He's clever, yeah, he's a bad lad, yeah, and he's good at what he does because he's a bit of a bad lad.
37:31
SPEAKER_00: He fights hard and dirty, the real James Bond.
37:34
SPEAKER_00: He's hard and dirty, like he makes love to lazy.
37:37
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
37:38
SPEAKER_00: Look and I'm smart.
37:44
SPEAKER_00: He likes to goose them.
37:45
SPEAKER_02: He fucking proper gooses them.
37:47
SPEAKER_00: He probably gooses them in the lift.
37:48
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
37:49
SPEAKER_00: There's just something about Daniel Craig, and so whoever the next person is that comes along, I want them to keep the roughness of Daniel Craig because he makes mistakes, he gets knocked out in Cassine Royale.
38:01
SPEAKER_00: He's sitting there with his bollocks dangling through a seat as the as Thingyo is is wielding a chain under the seat.
38:09
SPEAKER_03: It did give it a grissiness, like, didn't he, do you know what I mean?
38:11
SPEAKER_03: Daniel Craig.
38:12
SPEAKER_03: I mean, is it quite because it was going a bit like these are shit these now are these James Bond films like you'd watch like the Sean Connery and the the Roger Moore ones and stuff because it was like a bit a bit nostalgic and that you know what I mean?
38:23
SPEAKER_03: Like, but it it it it definitely needed like freshening up.
38:27
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it did not wire things, and and just I want him to keep the grit, the darkness, and the brokenness of him that really came through with Daniel Craig that he's broke.
38:39
SPEAKER_00: And when he when he when he got him, he went down.
38:42
SPEAKER_00: I mean he jumped up, but he looked like he'd been fucking hit.
38:44
SPEAKER_03: Whereas Roger Moore just go Yeah, if he got a smack, he'd be a bit like Yeah, he'd pull the face, yeah.
38:51
SPEAKER_03: And then and then just fucking laddy everywhere.
38:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's it.
38:54
SPEAKER_03: In success on.
38:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
38:57
SPEAKER_00: So Barry Nelson, he went on, where am I here?
39:01
SPEAKER_00: Barry Nelson went on to play the manager at the uh Overlook Hotel, wasn't it?
39:06
SPEAKER_00: In The Shining.
39:07
SPEAKER_03: Shit, was that him?
39:08
SPEAKER_00: That was him.
39:09
SPEAKER_03: No way.
39:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
39:10
SPEAKER_00: He did a couple other little things as well, Brevent wrote them down, but that was the one that I thought you'd remember, yeah, you'd know.
39:15
SPEAKER_00: That's why I brought that one up.
39:16
SPEAKER_00: But he did do some other little bits and bobs as well.
39:19
SPEAKER_00: Um so he didn't like go off screen completely, he did do quite a lot of other things, um, but he just canned that one.
39:26
SPEAKER_00: We'll just forget about that.
39:27
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
39:28
SPEAKER_03: Wait me, Gavner.
39:32
SPEAKER_00: Right, so I'm gonna move on.
39:34
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna have a little swig of my drink though.
39:37
SPEAKER_00: Treat myself though.
39:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
39:42
SPEAKER_00: Not really have much to eat.
39:43
SPEAKER_00: Jimmy's hopefully bringing me in a busy.
39:47
SPEAKER_00: A surprise.
39:48
SPEAKER_00: If he if he if there isn't much choice, he'll give me uh like a chicken salad.
39:52
SPEAKER_03: Like a supermarket busy.
39:54
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
39:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
39:56
SPEAKER_00: Rice.
39:57
SPEAKER_00: So I'm not gonna do a dang libre.
39:59
SPEAKER_00: Only because it's now 40 minutes in hour.
40:03
SPEAKER_00: And I want to give this a little bit of room.
40:06
SPEAKER_03: Oh, okay.
40:07
SPEAKER_00: Because it's something that both of us can identify with.
40:11
SPEAKER_03: Rice.
40:12
SPEAKER_00: Okay, you're looking at me all quized.
40:14
SPEAKER_00: I'm never gonna say it.
40:16
SPEAKER_00: Oh okay.
40:17
SPEAKER_00: You're not gonna be backed into a corner, it's not gonna be uncomfortable.
40:20
SPEAKER_00: It's a BDSM mismatch.
40:23
SPEAKER_03: Fucking hell, I'm all over this then.
40:25
SPEAKER_00: Go on.
40:26
SPEAKER_00: Because obviously, your good lady wife is heavily into BDSM.
40:32
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
40:32
SPEAKER_00: Right, your foot could be in my view.
40:34
SPEAKER_03: Oh, right, sorry about that.
40:35
SPEAKER_03: I just have I'm just conscious of the fact I've crossed my legs more times than Kenny Everett's like song.
40:41
SPEAKER_00: Oh my god, Kenny Everett crossing his legs.
40:44
SPEAKER_03: All the best part for my taste.
40:47
SPEAKER_00: Oh, again, if you haven't seen it, look up Kenny Everett's cross-dressing and he does the cross-leg thing.
40:53
SPEAKER_00: It's so funny, isn't it?
40:54
SPEAKER_03: Brilliant.
40:55
SPEAKER_00: So, your good lady wife, she's heavily into BDSM.
40:58
SPEAKER_00: Obviously, she's been on here.
40:59
SPEAKER_03: She's just a bit.
41:00
SPEAKER_00: She's been on here.
41:01
SPEAKER_00: We talk about it all the time.
41:03
SPEAKER_00: And you're not so much into BDSM.
41:06
SPEAKER_00: You've been smacked around a little bit.
41:07
SPEAKER_00: I've I've yeah.
41:09
SPEAKER_00: And in the early days, you were like, no.
41:11
SPEAKER_00: And you put yourself up for things just because now that you now you might have found a few little things that you quite enjoy, but I don't think you would call yourself heavily into BDSM and a fetter shift, would you?
41:24
SPEAKER_00: Fuck no.
41:24
SPEAKER_00: No.
41:25
SPEAKER_00: No.
41:26
SPEAKER_00: So up until maybe just after COVID, Jim was the same.
41:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
41:30
SPEAKER_00: So he was just like you, he's got a missus who's a professional dominatric, couldn't you for donkey's years, evil through and through, obviously only in BDSM, and Jimmy was not at all.
41:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
41:41
SPEAKER_00: You know, lover, not a fighter, all that kind of thing.
41:44
SPEAKER_00: And then he found his little BDSM shoes, and he's he's very much into it now.
41:49
SPEAKER_00: But we've had what 18, 17, 18 years of me being into it and him not.
41:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
41:57
SPEAKER_00: And you've got this similar sort of thing, obviously, not over as much length of time, but you're in a loving relationship, you're married, Efton's great, but she's got this aspect of her life that you're not into.
42:07
SPEAKER_00: I'm not to say that you're not part of because obviously you come to the club, you run the club and you see it all the time.
42:13
SPEAKER_00: But it's not something that you can identify with that you go, I fucking love whacking people around.
42:18
SPEAKER_00: So Jimmy was the same.
42:20
SPEAKER_00: So I want to talk over this a little bit.
42:23
SPEAKER_00: Only because there'll be people out there who maybe they themselves really want to explore this, but the partners aren't into it.
42:30
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, no, I I'll I mean I'll I'll I let me be your spirit guys.
42:38
SPEAKER_03: It is, it's something like it's something like the like that.
42:44
SPEAKER_03: Oh no, cheesy was that.
42:46
SPEAKER_03: But it's it's like it's it's it's something that like yeah, it's something that's quite sort of close to my heart, and it's something I find myself talking about quite a bit because it's like, you know, um you know, it's like working in the club and that, and people say to her, Oh, did you get into it and all that?
43:02
SPEAKER_03: I was like, oh you know, like me, like me, who's now my wife, was working here and stuff, and they're like, oh, you know, what and what what does she do?
43:09
SPEAKER_03: So it's actually a professional dominatrix.
43:12
SPEAKER_03: And you know, yeah, I think what what what you find is that when like one person's into I suppose into kink in such a way that they are like you know, similar to yourself, like we're doing a mistress and whatever, the person like as in me, uh that whoever's talking to you makes a kind of judgment that like, oh but you fucking get shit, you get handcuffed to raise each other.
43:35
SPEAKER_03: Jim has the same thing, and he's like like four.
43:37
SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, nah.
43:39
SPEAKER_03: No, you know, she's got like she has like people who she does certain types of kink with and and and that's great, crack on, do you know what I mean?
43:49
SPEAKER_03: Because you know, 'cause it's just not I mean, yeah yeah, I mean she sh you know, she fucking orders me now in the house like, but I mean that's good that's being mind, you know what I mean?
43:57
SPEAKER_00: Like it's hate to say it, like it is.
44:00
SPEAKER_03: Fellas, if you if you're not married and you're thinking about it, that's the reality of marriages, you're not going to get fucked up as well.
44:06
SPEAKER_03: Um so get used to that.
44:08
SPEAKER_03: But like it's it's I think people have like this sort of an assumption that like, oh, because one person's into it, the other one's into it.
44:15
SPEAKER_03: And I'm really not.
44:16
SPEAKER_00: No, no.
44:17
SPEAKER_00: And you know what?
44:18
SPEAKER_00: You have tried bits and boxes.
44:19
SPEAKER_03: Oh, I've tried.
44:20
SPEAKER_03: I mean, you you fucking hell, you give me an eye at once, didn't you?
44:22
SPEAKER_03: Do you know what I mean?
44:23
SPEAKER_00: No, no, no.
44:24
SPEAKER_00: That was for the game basically.
44:26
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but it you you I wouldn't normally do that.
44:28
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I know, but I mean I'm just I'm just saying, like, oh I might have used the wrong thing.
44:32
SPEAKER_03: But you're for life then?
44:33
SPEAKER_03: I might have not used the right terminology, but you you like administers whatever to me on that that night.
44:39
SPEAKER_03: Do you know what I mean?
44:40
SPEAKER_00: But the idea was that you were getting can I go into detail?
44:45
SPEAKER_00: Okay, no, something was happening and I had to beat you.
44:48
SPEAKER_03: Like, man.
44:48
SPEAKER_03: I was getting I was getting a blowy at the same time.
44:50
SPEAKER_03: It was like a competition, and it's at like there was a lot of people.
44:52
SPEAKER_03: I didn't want to divulge just not there was nothing happening.
44:54
SPEAKER_00: And I was beating ya to stop ya from Yeah, and you did a good job.
44:57
SPEAKER_03: I did.
44:58
SPEAKER_03: Um but like I I have like gone from being like I mean well initially from going like I'm gonna go to a fucking swingers club to to to actually go your first night.
45:10
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, do you know what I mean?
45:12
SPEAKER_03: To to being like Dark King's not for me, and all this, that and the other, and to being like, well, you know what, I'll have a go.
45:19
SPEAKER_03: And I and I think I have tired a few things.
45:21
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, do you know?
45:21
SPEAKER_03: I I think I have tried a few things and it's just not for me.
45:24
SPEAKER_02: No.
45:24
SPEAKER_03: The only thing of like that I do quite like it is like I'm just like candle waxing.
45:29
SPEAKER_03: I quite like that.
45:30
SPEAKER_03: Um but other than that is that receiving or giving?
45:35
SPEAKER_03: I won't do things to people.
45:36
SPEAKER_00: Won't you?
45:37
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
45:37
SPEAKER_03: No, and this is another thing that I was gonna come on to is that like like the BDSM world is totally different, like swinging, isn't it?
45:45
SPEAKER_03: Do you know what I mean?
45:45
SPEAKER_03: It's like two very distinct things.
45:47
SPEAKER_03: Very, very different.
45:48
SPEAKER_03: And it's like you know, there's so much like ethics to it, like, and I find like that even now, like after such a long time, like like wit working in the club and stuff, is that you know, like you've got to be quiet around the scene and stuff.
46:00
SPEAKER_03: And like, I'm not the quietest of people, do you know what I mean?
46:02
SPEAKER_03: No, and the amount of times we're in the saying, I'm gonna go fucking shut up and I'm like, What?
46:06
SPEAKER_03: You're just talking, do you know what I mean?
46:08
SPEAKER_03: But there's a lot of ethics to it, and I think the thing is though, is like there's so many you know, there's a lot there's gotta be a lot of negotiation in BDSM and a lot of like making sure you're using safe words and stuff like that, but things can still go wrong, yeah.
46:22
SPEAKER_03: And like I always say that like I've I've had a go with things in BDSM, but it's always been me on the receiver, and however, I worry that like if I was to sort of, I don't know, say say since say for instance Sarah said, like, oh will you will you flog me with this?
46:39
SPEAKER_03: Or not so much Sarah but someone else who I don't necessarily have that connection with and something goes wrong, I'd be fucking mortified and I'd like to think that they would be like I know you you know, I know you didn't mean that, but would be and and I think to myself I'm not interested in it enough to explore that side of things to put myself in the position where and I I don't I I don't really want to hit someone I mean you know and and I've said this as well, like the only time I've ever hit I've I've I've ever had to hit someone is where it'd be in a position where it fucking had to, do you know what I mean?
47:19
SPEAKER_03: In a bar bro, you know what I'm saying, like and and I just uh it just uh it just doesn't interest me enough to to sort of want to explore that and for something potent to potentially go wrong, but you know, I knew Sarah was a dominatrix even before I'd actually met her in person.
47:34
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but you know, people I have like this sort of like oh so oh your Mrs.
47:39
SPEAKER_03: Professional Domatrix, then like oh so like you know, people I think there's like sex involved in it as well, yeah, and there's not in BDS.
47:48
SPEAKER_03: Do you know what I mean?
47:48
SPEAKER_03: It's like it's yeah.
47:50
SPEAKER_00: I mean they can be.
47:51
SPEAKER_03: It can be sexual and sensual, but but that's for most people, it's not.
47:55
SPEAKER_03: But that's gotta be that's a negotiation, isn't it?
47:57
SPEAKER_03: Don't you know what I mean?
47:58
SPEAKER_03: But don't don't don't just assume like someone because someone's into BDSM they're gonna go they're gonna be like shagging round and stuff like that because it's not two totally different things as a professional dominatrix.
48:08
SPEAKER_00: There's never anything sexual in my in my practice ever.
48:12
SPEAKER_00: I always kept my BDSM completely separate to like swinging.
48:16
SPEAKER_00: Um I didn't want the two to cross, I wanted there to be a difference between the two, yeah, and I don't enjoy um giving uh BDSM whatever it is in a sexy way.
48:28
SPEAKER_00: I don't I'm not gonna mock us, are it?
48:30
SPEAKER_00: I just don't enjoy it.
48:32
SPEAKER_00: I I like being a little bit more serious, um, and I want to concentrate rather than being sexy because what I do takes quite a lot of concentration.
48:40
SPEAKER_00: I don't want to have to think about how I look and you know being the end result, being a shag.
48:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
48:46
SPEAKER_00: You know, uh my BDSM is very similar to Sarah's, obviously, you know, I've worked with Sarah for quite a long time, so quite similar.
48:52
SPEAKER_00: And it it's just it's not sexy, and people have the assumption that oh right, okay, so you're you're open your legs every session.
49:00
SPEAKER_00: No, that's true.
49:01
SPEAKER_00: That's what I mean.
49:02
SPEAKER_03: But people who don't know it that think that, and it's like it's not like that, you know.
49:05
SPEAKER_00: And like going back to what you said before, people assuming that you're into BDSM and she beats the shit out of you because she's a professional dominatrix, and there's been obviously Jim's into it now, and there's been a few times since he's been into it, and people have gone, oh, you're the one, you're getting chains up and getting your ass slapped, and it's like, hmm, quite the contrary, other way around, actually.
49:26
unknown: You know.
49:26
SPEAKER_03: Well that's what I mean.
49:27
SPEAKER_03: I mean, it's it's like I mean, I'm saying all this now.
49:29
SPEAKER_03: Like, I mean, you you know, maybe I I you know I might have a like a Jimmy epiphany or something and get into it.
49:34
SPEAKER_03: I don't know, but as things stand, it's not yeah, it's not, it's not for me, and that and and I that that's all right.
49:41
SPEAKER_03: I'd be asked like, oh you know, you must be a boss, Tom, and all this.
49:44
SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, no, I don't do that wolf.
49:46
SPEAKER_00: Um boss shagger though top shagger badge.
49:51
SPEAKER_03: It's not about that when it's all get cramped.
49:55
SPEAKER_00: I believe you've been in demand lately.
49:59
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, well, I mean You've got to be mad.
50:06
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's what's I don't know, but I like I just like I'd say what I can't I'd like you know just get I just get I get to shine and stuff like that, like honestly.
50:18
SPEAKER_03: I don't know I don't know why I like buttons.
50:20
SPEAKER_03: Okay, should we we'll move on from that because you've just suddenly gone it's it's it's nice like I'm not gonna lie, like it's nice to it's nice to like it's nice to get the attention.
50:31
SPEAKER_03: Be fancied, yeah.
50:32
SPEAKER_03: Do you know what I mean?
50:33
SPEAKER_03: But like I just go like you know what I mean.
50:35
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you do, am I?
50:36
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you just did.
50:37
SPEAKER_03: I'm such a kid.
50:40
SPEAKER_00: Um and you know yeah, you might never get into BDSM, and like you say, it's okay for two partners to have different interests.
50:47
SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah.
50:47
SPEAKER_00: And I don't know what advice would we be giving to people if somebody, uh a guy, let's say a guy, because obviously you can relate to it, his wife suddenly says, Do you know what?
50:57
SPEAKER_00: I've had this interest in BDSM and it's something that I want to explore.
51:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, what are we gonna say to these guys?
51:04
SPEAKER_00: Because then does it mean they're gonna have to go to a club because he's not into it, you know.
51:08
SPEAKER_00: So obviously we'd be advising to go to munch and all that, but how is he gonna like not feel getting pushed out because she's doing something that he's not?
51:18
SPEAKER_00: Because don't forget, you run the club, and so you're part of the scene, you know, within the club.
51:26
SPEAKER_00: What if somebody isn't on the scene and the wife wants to go to a BTSM venue to you know spread the wings and start exploring?
51:35
SPEAKER_00: What advice are we gonna give to that that guy to reassure him?
51:40
SPEAKER_03: Go with them.
51:41
SPEAKER_00: We might not want to.
51:42
SPEAKER_03: Okay, yeah, I I can understand that, but like I mean, I'm supposed to like at Townhouse.
51:50
SPEAKER_03: You know, when you come when you come to like townhouse, it's like it's it's you know, again, you're gonna have this conception that you're gonna go and someone's gonna hit you with someone, no one's gonna hit you with something unless you'd ask them to.
52:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, or drag it into a room by your hair, that's not gonna happen either unless you ask them.
52:07
SPEAKER_03: You find that you know, so that my advice would be like if you if you you know was either say crack on with it, love, or if you're cute, if you if you're curious and you want to be reassured, is go along with them.
52:19
SPEAKER_03: Go along and and just treat it as like I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go with I'm gonna go with with me with me with my missus or my father or whoever's interested in it and stuff, you know, come into townhouse like you can go there and just be social, do you know what I mean?
52:34
SPEAKER_03: It's like you know, it's not like you you're gonna walk in and there's gonna be like people like you know figuring like cutting each other and stuff like that.
52:41
SPEAKER_03: It's it's or expecting everything anything of you, that is more than or having an expectation of you to do, and it's like uh you know, I mean on the swinging side of things, I always say to people when they come for the first time, it's like you know, don't think you're gonna be under any pressure to sort of have to go upstairs or you know, you can just stay down here, be social and have a drink, and you can have some I've had some boss nights.
53:06
SPEAKER_00: I've had some great social nights in there.
53:09
SPEAKER_03: I mean I've been like doing a bit of a Cinderella the last few times and being going in and just like getting off by 12 o'clock after I've done a little bit of karaoke and that, you know what I mean?
53:16
SPEAKER_03: But like you can't you can just go and be social and like you know that might be your thing where it's like you'll go the once and be like, do you know what I've seen it and it's a nice place and all that people and the people are nice and what have you, and I'm quite happy for you to you know carry on exploring that, you know.
53:33
SPEAKER_03: Like, you know, obviously they would talk about it and stuff like that, or actually, do you know what, like, next time you go, I'll come and I'll just have a little drink and stuff like that.
53:40
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, I mean, there's some people on our team like that.
53:43
SPEAKER_00: Uh his husband came to the club um for just a look around on an open evening with so I think so he could see the club was alright, and he was like, I don't know what the conversation they had, but you know, I can imagine I'm like, well, do you know what it's it's great?
53:56
SPEAKER_00: So I'm I'm more than happy for you to go there on your own.
53:59
SPEAKER_00: And obviously he does.
54:01
SPEAKER_00: Um and I'm sure there's loads of other people over the years that I can if off the top of my head who've partners have come and they've gone, yeah.
54:06
SPEAKER_00: Do you know what?
54:07
SPEAKER_00: It's great, I'm happy for you to go there.
54:09
SPEAKER_00: Um, and if the person who's into BDSM doesn't want to go to an event straight away, then there's munches that are often in pubs and bars which are more social, so the partner can go along and you know see what it's all about.
54:21
SPEAKER_00: What sort of people is she going to be mixing with?
54:23
SPEAKER_00: Exactly, yeah.
54:24
SPEAKER_00: You know, uh lots of neurospicy people is the answer to that.
54:28
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, massive neurospicy scene, yeah.
54:30
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, as I say, it's it's okay, it's okay it's okay for people to be different, and it's like, you know, it's you know, say we've got we've got the like mean say we've got the difference where I like I like being out on my bike and stuff like that, do you know what I mean?
54:44
SPEAKER_03: It's like just it's just BDSM, man.
54:46
SPEAKER_03: That's well it's the thing is though it's doing it to us safe doing it.
54:50
SPEAKER_00: To us, it is just BDSM.
54:52
SPEAKER_00: But to people out there who don't really know much about it and they see you know the dominatrix, the stereotype and the whips and the chains and the pain and all that kind of thing, to people out there, it's not just BDSM, is it?
55:04
SPEAKER_03: It's not like but I'm open kinds of I mean I know I went out like I proper went on one then, like, but I'm open like what what like I sort of said there, like if anyone is it is in that position where they're like shit, like she's getting interested in stuff that's a bit spicy and I don't know how to handle it and stuff like that.
55:22
SPEAKER_03: Hopefully, what I've what I've said today it hopefully helps you a bit.
55:27
SPEAKER_03: If anyone, I mean, it's not like if anyone like writes in or anything like that, but you want to ask me and I'm like just you know you're gonna be lazy la boss, I mean now.
55:37
SPEAKER_03: Some of the advice will be any good, like, but you know what I mean.
55:40
SPEAKER_03: But uh you know what I'm asking you.
55:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you do yourself disservice, yeah.
55:43
SPEAKER_00: You are in quite a unique situation where your partner's into something that you're not, and it's something that everybody out there thinks is quite extreme.
55:50
SPEAKER_00: And I think you put yourself across really well, though, to be honest with you.
55:53
SPEAKER_00: And the main thing to get across for those who are worried, be DSM, you do get up close and personal with people.
55:59
SPEAKER_00: You are gonna put your hands on a stranger's skin, but it's not in a sexual way, it's in a caring way.
56:05
SPEAKER_00: I'm doing this to you, and I need to put my hands on you because that's my way of checking in with you.
56:11
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, and um there are people that bring sexual elements in, but she doesn't need to, or you know, I don't need to, you don't need to, whatever.
56:20
SPEAKER_03: That's it's all like negotiated, isn't it?
56:22
SPEAKER_03: Is what I'm saying.
56:23
SPEAKER_00: It's like the negotiation, it's uh it starts at home in this particular instance.
56:30
SPEAKER_00: If he's not into it or the other partner's not into it, the negotiation starts there, yeah, and it doesn't go any further until both parties are happy with it, basically.
56:37
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
56:38
SPEAKER_00: And then obviously then there's a further negotiation when you're in the club or wherever you're gonna go and whoever you're playing with, you know, it carries on from there.
56:44
SPEAKER_00: But um the negotiation must start at home, yeah, and uh if at any time the other partner's not comfortable, then you've just gotta stop and talk about it, and you don't go on to you know carrying on on your journey until your partner's alright with what you're doing.
56:58
SPEAKER_00: So I wonder, this is not in my notes, but I wonder then, let's say it's somebody who's really that into it, and they've said to their partner, you know, in my previous relationship, I was really, really into this.
57:12
SPEAKER_00: It was a very important part of my life.
57:14
SPEAKER_00: I've obviously not brought it up with you because I know that you're not really into it, but it's something that I want to explore again.
57:20
SPEAKER_00: What if the partner says, I'm really not happy with that?
57:23
SPEAKER_00: Despite them reassuring, and it might be something that you know, I don't want to see my partner being violent, or you know, I don't really want my partner to be going and touching other people's bare skin just to make sure that they're okay.
57:37
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
57:38
SPEAKER_00: Or I don't really agree with BDSM, or I don't really understand it enough.
57:42
SPEAKER_00: I don't want to understand it, it's just fucking weird.
57:45
SPEAKER_00: Some people we now have these opinions.
57:48
SPEAKER_00: What if there's somebody in a new relationship and they're like, yeah, I'm not happy with that.
57:52
SPEAKER_03: I don't know, I I I suppose I was really lucky in that like um I knew about like Sarah, I knew about Sarah with this, even before they mess it in person.
58:04
SPEAKER_03: So just to give you a bit of background, like we mess on online dating.
58:07
SPEAKER_03: So like we were messaging and messaging on, like, it was like plenty of fish, you know what I mean?
58:10
SPEAKER_03: Back in the day, and I'm messaging on that.
58:12
SPEAKER_03: And then it was kind of like getting to the source, like, oh, you know, you know, do you want to go for the drink type of thing?
58:17
SPEAKER_03: Like me suffering, have a drink and stuff like that.
58:19
SPEAKER_03: And um like the odd times where I did sort of meet sort meet like like go for actual dates, I'd always like sort of have a little phone call with them first, just to sort of, you know, just sort of like scoping out, yeah.
58:30
SPEAKER_03: Did they see him all right?
58:31
SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
58:32
SPEAKER_03: And and she told me, like she just told me, like not like the first thing she said, but she said, I do have to tell you something like that might you might want to you might make you feel a bit differently about meeting up on that.
58:43
SPEAKER_03: And when she and she said, like my professional dominate, and I was like, Oh really?
58:50
SPEAKER_03: I wasn't expecting it, but I thought, you know what?
58:52
SPEAKER_03: I I I I quite like that sort of because I could have gone, you know, you know, you're alright, girl, fuck that.
58:59
SPEAKER_03: I like and put the fuck up.
58:59
SPEAKER_03: But I thought I quite like that honesty, do you know what I mean?
59:02
SPEAKER_03: And then you know, because I knew nothing about it, I knew nothing about BDS.
59:06
SPEAKER_03: I thought like, you know, being kinky was like giving a bird a slap on the beat, a slap on the arse and stuff like that.
59:10
SPEAKER_03: Do you know what I mean?
59:11
SPEAKER_03: Got on me.
59:12
SPEAKER_03: Um but it I was quite lucky in that sense, and that I was I had that option straight away.
59:19
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but I but I I I I appreciated that honesty.
59:24
SPEAKER_03: But I think you you know, for like people like where I was like maybe being sprung on, like you say, like where it's like, oh no, it's fucking disgusting and all that, is like it, you know, think about when your mum put put your tea in front of you and you didn't like the look of it and then you did like it, think about that.
59:39
SPEAKER_00: But it must be hard because some people do have these misconceptions, don't they?
59:43
SPEAKER_00: We talked about it before about the sex side and all the rest of it.
59:46
SPEAKER_00: And um, yeah, if you're in that situation, I'd be advising uh a truthful conversation, but sometimes even at the end of that conversation, you might not get the answer that you want because there are people out there who genuinely are just not interested in understanding, they just don't like the idea, you know.
1:00:02
SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of discrimination out there, and um in that situation, I'd be like, I'd have to be thinking about how much I'm into this, and is it something that I'm willing to give up?
1:00:13
SPEAKER_00: Because there's a lot of people, including me, they say once you're into it, you can't give it up.
1:00:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's too good.
1:00:18
SPEAKER_00: And don't get me wrong, I don't do it all the time.
1:00:20
SPEAKER_00: Now when I do, I love it.
1:00:22
SPEAKER_00: I absolutely love it.
1:00:23
SPEAKER_00: I've got a scene planned for the first of May, really, really looking forward to doing it.
1:00:28
SPEAKER_03: And when were you gonna tell me about it?
1:00:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, could I give it up completely?
1:00:37
SPEAKER_00: Uh if Jim ever said to me, you know, for I can't even think of the reason because there wouldn't be, but if you ever said to me, you know, you really can't do that anymore, my marriage is worth much more to me than BDSM.
1:00:49
SPEAKER_00: And I wouldn't resent him for it because I've had a long career and I've done a lot.
1:00:53
SPEAKER_00: If it was something at the beginning of our relationship, before there was like rings and love and all that, I'd probably like, actually, that's a quite a big thing for me to give up at this stage of my relationship.
1:01:06
SPEAKER_00: If you're not even willing to listen to what I'm saying, then I think we're just incompatible cells and move on.
1:01:11
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, well, I mean that that's the thing, isn't it?
1:01:13
SPEAKER_03: Do you know what I mean?
1:01:14
SPEAKER_03: It's I don't know, all I'd say is look, it's it's like it seems it seems scary, BDSM, and and even now some of it still scares the shit out of me, do you know what I mean?
1:01:23
SPEAKER_03: And it's not, and and I know it's not for me, a lot of it, but you know, if I think me one one thing to sort of say is like, you know, you need to have another half who was interested in it, is go along with them to a like go along with them to a munch, go along with them to a club.
1:01:38
SPEAKER_03: I mean, I remember the first time I went to I went to the club.
1:01:40
SPEAKER_03: I mean, it was a swing and nice, but I was like, fucking hell, you know, I'm gonna get turned into a lampshade or something here, do you know what I mean?
1:01:46
SPEAKER_03: And it and it just was not like that.
1:01:49
SPEAKER_03: You know, you're more than like, you know, I'm sure like other clubs around the country are similar to townhouse where you know you can you can just go and have a drink and sort of people, you know, no one's gonna hit you unless you want them to.
1:02:00
SPEAKER_00: I remember our first conversation when you first came in, and I think Sarah was on the desk, wasn't she?
1:02:05
SPEAKER_00: Was she on the desk?
1:02:06
SPEAKER_00: And you came in just to visit, you dropped in.
1:02:10
SPEAKER_03: She was definitely there because I didn't come on my own, I would not have come on my own.
1:02:13
SPEAKER_00: I think she's either on the desk or she was in doing something, and you came in to me, Sarah, or to see her, whatever.
1:02:20
SPEAKER_00: And I was actually on reception on the guest side of it when you walked in.
1:02:25
SPEAKER_00: I can't remember Sarah was with, you know, or not.
1:02:27
SPEAKER_00: And then we were chatting away.
1:02:28
SPEAKER_00: I thought, oh, he's really, really nice.
1:02:30
SPEAKER_00: Which remember what I said?
1:02:33
SPEAKER_03: Did you give us the like USA speeches?
1:02:36
SPEAKER_00: I did, yeah.
1:02:37
SPEAKER_00: I did.
1:02:37
SPEAKER_00: I said I had something along the lines of not quite verbatim, but something along the lines of uh Sarah's been through a lot.
1:02:45
SPEAKER_00: If you if you dare hurt her, I will hurt you.
1:02:50
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and I do remember something along that one.
1:02:53
SPEAKER_00: And I think I started deadly in the eye and said it very, very seriously, and then just went, right then, so we've got that one out the way.
1:02:59
SPEAKER_00: I've said it now, nice to meet you.
1:03:02
SPEAKER_00: Something along those lines it was, wasn't it?
1:03:05
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it was, yeah.
1:03:07
SPEAKER_00: Um, but now, look at you now, and bet you're glad you walked into the club for that first time.
1:03:12
SPEAKER_03: And you know, it's used the bug.
1:03:16
SPEAKER_00: And a clean bug it was.
1:03:18
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, scrupulously clean.
1:03:20
SPEAKER_00: Yes, absolutely.
1:03:21
SPEAKER_00: So we're gonna move on.
1:03:22
SPEAKER_00: We're gonna do a little Lady Lobosomy and advice thing.
1:03:26
SPEAKER_00: Do you remember Lady Lobosomy?
1:03:27
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:03:29
SPEAKER_00: And um, I think I know what I'm gonna say to this, but I'm gonna run it by you.
1:03:35
SPEAKER_00: Dear, Lady Lobotomy, my partner wants my phone passcode live location and keeps saying that in a healthy relationship there shouldn't be privacy if there's nothing to hide.
1:03:49
SPEAKER_00: I get that they've been hurt before.
1:03:51
SPEAKER_00: So part of me wants to reassure them, but it's starting to make me feel uh watched rather than trusted.
1:03:58
SPEAKER_00: If I'm slow replying or turn me location off, it becomes a thing.
1:04:02
SPEAKER_00: And now I'm questioning whether this is normal or the start of some kind of control and behaviour.
1:04:10
SPEAKER_00: So, for me, this is a red flag.
1:04:14
SPEAKER_00: Personal experience of this.
1:04:17
SPEAKER_00: My ex very much, very much kept a close eye on me.
1:04:21
SPEAKER_00: Uh, we didn't have a mobile phone early on in our relationship, obviously, because we weren't around.
1:04:27
SPEAKER_00: Um, but he still found ways of keeping tabs, talked me a little bit.
1:04:33
SPEAKER_00: So for me, this is a red flag, and I know exactly why, but what have you got anything that you want to say on that one?
1:04:40
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so for me, a phone is like somebody's diary.
1:04:45
SPEAKER_00: And I haven't got anything on my phone that shouldn't be on my phone, but it's still personal to me.
1:04:51
SPEAKER_00: I've got messages on there to friends and gym or whatever.
1:04:55
SPEAKER_00: Uh I've got work stuff on there, my calendar of what I've been doing and what I'm going to be doing, pictures of nights out and you know, film and all that kind of thing.
1:05:05
SPEAKER_00: Lots of things that probably if somebody got holds of it, they could probably find the ins and outs of my life, my bank details, my fat life profile.
1:05:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:05:15
SPEAKER_00: You could find everything out about me just by picking up my phone.
1:05:18
SPEAKER_00: It's mirror it mirrors me.
1:05:20
SPEAKER_00: And so if somebody wanted access to my phone, they gain access to every little bit of my life.
1:05:27
SPEAKER_00: And you know, if it was something like if it was Jim and I was incapacitated, and I'd be like, Jim, you know, I have my phone, love, that's my passcode, you need to do things for me.
1:05:38
SPEAKER_00: Uh and there's been times I've been he's he's like look, you know, pick my phone up to look at the time and something's happened.
1:05:43
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, just do my thing on it.
1:05:45
SPEAKER_00: Or my new computer, if you ever need to get into it, my passcode is I've got nothing to hide.
1:05:51
SPEAKER_00: But in this particular instance, uh this feels unhealthy because it's not just it's not like handing the phone over and giving them.
1:06:00
SPEAKER_00: Pasco to just have a look at a picture.
1:06:01
SPEAKER_00: This is somebody who wants to know where they are, they want to know their location, the live location at any point, so they can just look and go, right, they are where they're supposed to be.
1:06:12
SPEAKER_00: They want to get into their phone probably to have a look at messages.
1:06:16
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:06:17
SPEAKER_00: So, regardless of the fact that this person's been hurt before, this is a new relationship.
1:06:22
SPEAKER_00: And if this person can't put this to bed, the hurt that they've had in their previous relationship, this repeated beh this repeated behaviour is going to be damaging.
1:06:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
1:06:33
SPEAKER_00: And therefore they shouldn't be in a relationship yet because they haven't put right what was basically done wrong to them last time.
1:06:40
SPEAKER_00: Whatever it was, I don't know what it is because it says, I get they've been hurt before, so somebody's cheated on them at some point before.
1:06:46
SPEAKER_00: Definitely something's happened, but they're so they they're not ready to be in a relationship yet because they are doubting the person in the new relationship.
1:06:54
SPEAKER_00: And this for me, I'm really sorry to say, it's anonymous.
1:06:57
SPEAKER_00: I don't know, I don't know who you are.
1:07:00
SPEAKER_00: Uh but this is a genuine lasser.
1:07:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:07:03
SPEAKER_00: You need to.
1:07:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, all my lady lobosomies are the genuine needs it.
1:07:07
SPEAKER_00: That's why I don't do one every episode because I've no one's got one, to be honest, or one that is suitable for that time.
1:07:14
SPEAKER_00: So for me, um, this is a massive red flag.
1:07:17
SPEAKER_00: Uh I would be questioning this relationship.
1:07:21
SPEAKER_00: This is only gonna get worse.
1:07:23
SPEAKER_00: It'll start at access to the phone, then it will be no, I don't I'm not happy with you going there, then it'll be happy and then it'll be I'm not happy with going to that place with that person.
1:07:33
SPEAKER_00: They'll start controlling everything, then it'll go down to what why are you wearing that?
1:07:37
SPEAKER_00: Because you don't wear that when you go out with me.
1:07:40
SPEAKER_00: This is all personal experience, I'm afraid.
1:07:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's like it's where it starts.
1:07:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's like it's this, but then what's it gonna lead on to?
1:07:47
SPEAKER_00: They're trying to control you through your phone.
1:07:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, once they've done that, if there's something slightly not quite right on the phone, they're like that message sounds a little bit flirty.
1:07:59
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:08:00
SPEAKER_00: Where's that gonna go?
1:08:02
SPEAKER_00: If you sell say to that person, I'm just gonna nip down into New Brighton to Morrison's, but you go to Morrison's and they haven't got the vodka that you want.
1:08:11
SPEAKER_00: So you go across to Wallacey instead, you go to the Aston instead.
1:08:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:08:15
SPEAKER_00: And you know, they're they're watching on you well, why they said they were going to New Brighton, why are they now going over there?
1:08:20
SPEAKER_00: And when you come in, they make your life hell.
1:08:22
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:08:23
SPEAKER_00: They do.
1:08:24
SPEAKER_00: I've been there, they'll make your life hell.
1:08:26
SPEAKER_00: As soon as they've got that kind of access to your movements and who you speak to and what you do, it becomes it becomes obsessive.
1:08:35
SPEAKER_00: And then when they're not getting the right answers or something doesn't seem quite right, they'll use it against you, and before you know it, you won't have a phone.
1:08:42
SPEAKER_03: This is something me and Sarah have been talking about a little bit lately, so you know location sat and sharing like your Google Maps or whatever.
1:08:49
SPEAKER_03: So she was like, You don't share your location, do you?
1:08:52
SPEAKER_03: And I was like, And she was like, Why not?
1:08:55
SPEAKER_03: And I was like, Because I just don't see why you need to know where I am like when you want to when when and she's like, Yeah, but I won't be checking it all the time and stuff, and I was like, but why do you want to know?
1:09:10
SPEAKER_03: I'm not going anywhere, I shouldn't be.
1:09:12
SPEAKER_03: I said, I might go and have a crafty little pint, do you know what I mean?
1:09:15
SPEAKER_00: But you tend to tell us anyway, yeah, on the groups and everything.
1:09:18
SPEAKER_03: On the spur of the moment, I might go and have a pint, you know what I mean?
1:09:21
SPEAKER_03: That is like that's the most dodgy thing I do, do you know what I mean?
1:09:25
SPEAKER_03: Um, but then she was sort of saying, Well, you know, when I fucked off to Wales and when clowns up an hill or something like that, I've got to tell her it was going.
1:09:32
SPEAKER_03: I've got to tell her it was going.
1:09:33
SPEAKER_03: She was like, What about if something have happened to Woodn's?
1:09:35
SPEAKER_03: And I was like, Yeah, fair enough.
1:09:36
SPEAKER_03: And then she was like, What about like if you were on your bike and you fell off, like, and you and I was like, Yeah, that's a good point.
1:09:42
SPEAKER_03: And then I thought, you know what?
1:09:44
SPEAKER_03: I I have I actually haven't got anything to eyes.
1:09:47
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:09:47
SPEAKER_03: So I'll I'll allow you to what to see my location.
1:09:53
SPEAKER_03: But I think and I mean nothing's happened since then.
1:09:57
SPEAKER_03: It's just been like, yeah, so I'm happy days.
1:09:58
SPEAKER_03: I mean, you you know, but I I think if if it ever did get to a situation where it was like, what are you doing there?
1:10:05
SPEAKER_03: Or I thought you were going such and such, I'd be like, I'll just turn it off.
1:10:09
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:10:12
SPEAKER_03: I'm just gonna turn it off then.
1:10:13
SPEAKER_00: Oh, we didn't have anything like that location things.
1:10:15
SPEAKER_00: For one, Jim wouldn't actually know how to find my location on the phone anyway.
1:10:20
SPEAKER_00: I think for practical reasons, like if you're gonna go up a mountain, you really should be telling your wife that you're going up a mountain.
1:10:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:10:26
SPEAKER_00: Really, yeah.
1:10:27
SPEAKER_00: You know, it's not like I haven't told her I'm going to Asda, oh shit.
1:10:30
SPEAKER_00: You know, I didn't tell her I was going up a mountain in Wales.
1:10:35
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:10:35
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I can see where she's coming from.
1:10:37
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, definitely, yeah.
1:10:39
SPEAKER_00: Definitely.
1:10:39
SPEAKER_03: And I think at the end of the day, it's one, it's one of them.
1:10:42
SPEAKER_03: I've got nothing to ours, but it's like it's one of them, isn't it?
1:10:45
SPEAKER_03: Where it's like just seems a little bit intrusive.
1:10:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, it does.
1:10:50
SPEAKER_00: But the but I can see the practicality wise.
1:10:52
SPEAKER_03: But baby, location satins are still on.
1:10:55
SPEAKER_03: So there you go, you can stalk him now.
1:10:56
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, if you want some covertly.
1:11:02
SPEAKER_00: So to this person, uh, we're both in agreement.
1:11:05
SPEAKER_00: Hey, uh, definitely.
1:11:06
SPEAKER_00: All of this behaviour is a red flag.
1:11:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:11:09
SPEAKER_00: Um, and it it won't stop.
1:11:11
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:11:12
SPEAKER_00: It won't stop.
1:11:13
SPEAKER_00: So this person hasn't healed from their previous trauma themselves, from the previous relationship, uh, and they're bringing it into a new relationship.
1:11:21
SPEAKER_00: It's going to bring you down, it's going to change you fundamentally.
1:11:24
SPEAKER_00: You'll change your behaviour, you'll change uh you'll filter what you say to this person, you'll change your relationship with other people.
1:11:32
SPEAKER_00: You might not go out quite so much the other person.
1:11:34
SPEAKER_00: It's a slippery slope.
1:11:35
SPEAKER_03: It's definitely not something you can just sweep under the rug and go, like, oh, you know what, it might be alright.
1:11:39
SPEAKER_03: It's it's it needs a dress.
1:11:41
SPEAKER_00: There's nothing wrong with this person, the one who's got the issues.
1:11:44
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, go and get some help, go and get some talking therapy and stuff like that to talk through the issues and why they're behaving in this way.
1:11:50
SPEAKER_03: That's what I'm saying.
1:11:51
SPEAKER_03: Like, what we're in no, we're in in no way.
1:11:53
SPEAKER_03: Well, I'm not saying like you need to fucking write off, do you know what I mean?
1:11:56
SPEAKER_03: Or or air or whatever.
1:11:58
SPEAKER_03: But like it it it this isn't something that's just gonna like go away in a week or something that needs resolve.
1:12:04
SPEAKER_00: If this was a brand new relationship, I'd be like, stop it now.
1:12:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, before you get invested, before there's L words thrown around, uh stop, just leave, go, and thank your lucky stars.
1:12:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, however, it sounds a little like my partner, a little bit more invested.
1:12:21
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so you know, you need to give it a go, don't you?
1:12:24
SPEAKER_00: Then do some work on it and give the person an opportunity, you know, through talk and therapy, either on their own or between them, you know, both of them, it could be both, um, and see where it goes.
1:12:33
SPEAKER_00: But if you're not getting the answers and the actions, if they're not changing, um then this is something that needs to be reconsidered, the whole thing.
1:12:42
SPEAKER_00: But I think you know, definitely getting some support and help in the first instance.
1:12:46
SPEAKER_00: But you know, is the the question was is this a red flag?
1:12:49
SPEAKER_00: Yes, it is.
1:12:50
SPEAKER_03: I thought it's a red flag, yeah.
1:12:52
SPEAKER_00: Yes, it is 100%, and it's not gonna go away.
1:12:55
SPEAKER_00: Don't ignore it.
1:12:55
SPEAKER_00: Don't ignore it.
1:12:56
SPEAKER_00: Please, please do something about it.
1:12:58
SPEAKER_00: And if your part isn't willing to have the conversation over it or they've come a little bit over defensive, that's a big red flag as well, isn't it?
1:13:04
SPEAKER_00: They need to have an open conversation about it.
1:13:07
SPEAKER_03: I want to be honest with you, like I like I Sarah knows this only too well.
1:13:12
SPEAKER_03: I can find it hard to talk about things sometimes, like but you you you've got to get there somehow, like and it, and it can be like because you're embarrassed about it.
1:13:21
SPEAKER_03: You know, you're you're embarrassed about like sort of feeling in a certain way, or you just find the words hard to, but you you've both got to find a way to work together to be able to, you know, because you might sort of ask it in the first instance, and maybe there is defensiveness or like sense of embarrassment, and and I I I can kind of relate to that, but you've got to it's it's gotta happen.
1:13:41
SPEAKER_00: It has, it has it's gotta happen, it's it's just gotta be a downward spiral, otherwise.
1:13:44
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's gotta happen somehow, like do you know what I mean?
1:13:46
SPEAKER_00: If you comply with this sort of thing, then um the other things you need to comply to will start piling on.
1:13:53
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:13:53
SPEAKER_00: You know, the other demands will be made.
1:13:55
SPEAKER_00: So, but you know, um if you're willing, if you love this person, you're willing to put the effort in, I don't think it's irredeemable.
1:14:01
SPEAKER_03: Um just gotta you've gotta have a go, but you can't ignore it.
1:14:04
SPEAKER_03: You can't ignore it.
1:14:05
SPEAKER_00: If you don't get the answers you want after trying, then I think you need to reconsider the health thing, basically.
1:14:10
SPEAKER_00: Right, before we go.
1:14:11
SPEAKER_03: I hope that helps.
1:14:12
SPEAKER_00: I hope it helps.
1:14:13
SPEAKER_00: You're being very good today with the advice and stuff.
1:14:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm impressed.
1:14:18
SPEAKER_03: Like an agony uncle, you know what I mean?
1:14:20
SPEAKER_03: I mean, I'm giving my voice address for once.
1:14:22
SPEAKER_03: Just wait for all the emails to come through coming through.
1:14:23
SPEAKER_03: How'd you handle your bed too busy?
1:14:25
SPEAKER_03: Yes, I'm like lads, I'm gonna come in.
1:14:26
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna have to give you the name, aren't I?
1:14:27
SPEAKER_00: She can't be lazy lobotomy anyway.
1:14:32
SPEAKER_03: Agony handsy.
1:14:33
SPEAKER_00: Agony handsy, though.
1:14:35
SPEAKER_00: That's the agony, but it's implying.
1:14:39
SPEAKER_00: Right, so we're gonna finish off with a fetish factoid.
1:14:42
SPEAKER_03: Okay, go on.
1:14:42
SPEAKER_00: It's a very short one.
1:14:43
SPEAKER_00: You might know.
1:14:44
SPEAKER_00: You can guess, probably.
1:14:46
SPEAKER_00: Do you know?
1:14:48
SPEAKER_03: The muffin man.
1:14:49
SPEAKER_00: Fucking god, mate.
1:14:51
SPEAKER_00: There you go, that's it, we're ended.
1:14:53
SPEAKER_00: So, do you know the muffin man?
1:14:56
SPEAKER_00: The muffin man! The origins of dungeon furniture.
1:15:04
SPEAKER_03: Judging by our dungeon furniture, I'd say it comes from medieval times.
1:15:09
SPEAKER_00: Mostly, yes, it does.
1:15:11
SPEAKER_00: So it wasn't a trick question.
1:15:12
SPEAKER_00: A lot of dungeon furniture does come from, you know.
1:15:17
SPEAKER_00: This one is.
1:15:18
SPEAKER_00: I know, yeah.
1:15:18
SPEAKER_00: On it.
1:15:19
SPEAKER_00: So stocks, pillories, that kind of thing.
1:15:21
SPEAKER_00: St Andrew's Cross is actually a religious thing, the St.
1:15:24
SPEAKER_00: Andrew's Cross.
1:15:26
SPEAKER_00: Um, but it also comes from uh school punishment, so the caning in school, bent over desks, that kind of thing, leaning against walls and blackboards and that kind of thing.
1:15:37
SPEAKER_00: The school desks, very much.
1:15:38
SPEAKER_00: We've got two school desks in the club.
1:15:41
SPEAKER_00: And there's lots of people over the years that have asked to be bent over the school desks for you know memory, that kind of thing.
1:15:47
SPEAKER_00: Reliving a memory.
1:15:49
SPEAKER_00: Um, so it comes from that, but also uh fetish, uh it's like Victorian fetish circles, which often overlapped with uh mysticism as well, so like um your seance circles and all that, the two worlds often came hand in hand, and so the Victorian fetish circles, you did see a lot of gothic you know, candles and chains and that kind of thing to set the seance scene.
1:16:16
SPEAKER_00: Um, and because the two collided, if the same people were into fetish as well, they'd bring in the candles, the chains, and obviously some of the equipment were throwbacks from punishment from Victorian beyond Victorian times, medieval times, and so in these Victorian fetish circles, they brought in this sort of equipment to create a theatrical scene, and sometimes in the Victorian seances, even if they weren't taking part in BDSM, they might have some of the equipment to get into people's heads straight away, a suggestiveness.
1:16:50
SPEAKER_00: So if they were saying they were in contact with blah blah and the air was cool with flickering candles and some you know torturous things around and about, I think it would make somebody you know believe and connect with the person who's leading the seance because of the theatrical scene that they've set.
1:17:10
SPEAKER_00: So in these times, these two worlds collided and they both brought elements of like this medieval torture time, and they were using it as props, they were using all this equipment as props to create this sort of scene.
1:17:24
SPEAKER_00: And there was a I've brought this person in before in the 1800s a dominatrix called uh Teresa Berkeley, and she was do you think the first, if not one of the first, um, Dominatrix, and she um created, she designed and had built the Berkeley horse, which we think is one of the first custom made designed built BDSM equipment pieces.
1:17:51
SPEAKER_00: It looks like it's like um two sides, like that.
1:17:55
SPEAKER_00: It's got like restraints on either side, the person leans against it.
1:17:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, uh, it's basically a whipping frame, and she designed this herself and had it custom made.
1:18:04
SPEAKER_00: There's actually Berkeley horses around in some um museums and that.
1:18:09
SPEAKER_00: Um, excuse me.
1:18:11
SPEAKER_00: So that was the first custom made piece, but before that, it did come from uh medieval times and these like seance circles and some of the like mysticism and stuff like that that was coming into it.
1:18:24
SPEAKER_00: Because as we know, BDSM isn't always about the physical, it's about creating a scene.
1:18:29
SPEAKER_03: Oh are yeah, yeah.
1:18:30
SPEAKER_00: And so the medieval torture equipment, it just got into people's heads straight away.
1:18:35
SPEAKER_00: Really, really, really great.
1:18:36
SPEAKER_00: So I'm sure you've all probably guessed where it all came from, but the BDSM fridge that we use isn't just because it's from medieval times, it could because it gets into your psyche, it's been used as theatrical props, it looks menacing before you'd even put anybody on it.
1:18:51
SPEAKER_00: So that's why we choose to use that over just leaving somebody against a banister or whatever, because it's all about getting to the body.
1:18:57
SPEAKER_03: But it isn't a spectacle, isn't it?
1:18:58
SPEAKER_03: I mean, the call the scene for a reason.
1:19:00
SPEAKER_03: That's one of the reasons why the call the scene, isn't it?
1:19:02
SPEAKER_03: Do you know what I mean?
1:19:03
SPEAKER_03: Because it's all about like the you know what I mean, like a bit of showmanship, isn't it?
1:19:08
SPEAKER_03: I suppose especially for like people like you know, you like yourself, like where you've got like an experience in it, like Sarah with like the floggers, it's like I mean, like it it's it's fucking impressive to watch.
1:19:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it totally is.
1:19:19
SPEAKER_03: You know, there's a skill to it.
1:19:20
SPEAKER_00: Going back to the spectacle, the reason why the the other reason why they were using medieval um torture implements, if you like for BDSM, if you think about going back to what you said about before about um execution, it's very public, it's a spectacle.
1:19:36
SPEAKER_00: Well, so also was torture and punishment, you know, like public, it was a very public thing.
1:19:42
SPEAKER_00: And when they were punishing people, they exposed them.
1:19:47
SPEAKER_00: So it was often on crosses or a pillory, they'd they'd be naked, their arms and legs would be out spread, they'd be publicly available, seen.
1:19:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, uh, and so that's why we use them in our scenes because when they're outstretched on a cross or bent over things, they're vulnerable, they're positioned in a way to be presented to the crowd, presented to the dominatrix.
1:20:12
SPEAKER_00: This punishment they're gonna get is a public, humiliating spectacle.
1:20:15
SPEAKER_00: So, by you know, spreading them out on these torture devices, it's like you are now public property, and we're gonna do this thing to you.
1:20:24
SPEAKER_00: This is a public scene, but all consensual, but all consensual, obviously.
1:20:28
SPEAKER_00: So that's where it all comes from.
1:20:29
SPEAKER_00: It's creating a display, the posture, exposing this person, humiliating them.
1:20:34
SPEAKER_00: You are mine to do what I want to, and you're all gonna enjoy it.
1:20:38
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's all coming from that.
1:20:39
SPEAKER_03: And then after I'm gonna get you a cup of tea and a chocolate, a cup of tea and a chocolate and a blankie.
1:20:44
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna be dead nice to you then.
1:20:47
SPEAKER_00: It's fucking mad, isn't it?
1:20:48
SPEAKER_00: It is mad, it is mad.
1:20:49
SPEAKER_00: It's mad.
1:20:50
SPEAKER_00: And you know, uh since I've been doing this podcast, people I've said, I can't tell you how many times, you're actually really nice, aren't you?
1:20:58
SPEAKER_00: Literally.
1:21:00
SPEAKER_00: You're really nice, aren't you?
1:21:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm like, yeah, I am just because I'm a dominatrix doesn't mean that I'm an absolute cunt all the time.
1:21:07
SPEAKER_00: I can be cunt to be honest with you.
1:21:09
SPEAKER_03: I mean, like, I mean, I'm not saying like with you, like, but like I suppose, like, you know, before I got into like any kind of like dislike, so someone mentioned like dominant like dominatrix or a mistress to me.
1:21:19
SPEAKER_03: I'd imagine to be dead like a loof and be like, all are you talking so and all that?
1:21:22
SPEAKER_03: Do you know what I mean?
1:21:23
SPEAKER_03: Like, but it is like that kind of We're just people.
1:21:26
SPEAKER_00: We are just people, just people who are into some kinky shit, we've got a sense of humour, and you know, if somebody wants me to be an Uber cont, I can, I can just switch it on.
1:21:35
SPEAKER_00: Um but in as a Dominatrix, I'm not conti all the time.
1:21:40
SPEAKER_00: I'm maybe not as caring as Sarah.
1:21:42
SPEAKER_00: Sarah's very maternal in the way she looks after people afterwards.
1:21:47
SPEAKER_00: Okay, maybe not you, but when she's looking after a substance Yeah, you're Sarah.
1:21:53
SPEAKER_00: She's looked after me after the scene, and she was very maternal, and she was I don't mean maternal in like you know, a child sense, but in a caring way.
1:22:02
SPEAKER_00: So I've beat the living daylights out of you now, and now I need to put you back together again.
1:22:06
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna make sure you're okay.
1:22:08
SPEAKER_00: And I do care for people after, but not in that sense.
1:22:11
SPEAKER_00: You know, I'll have a conversation with people and we'll sit and I'll go, got that one, yeah.
1:22:15
SPEAKER_00: Whereas Sailor will put a blanket around you and she'll want to cuddle you in a little bit and give you the chocolate.
1:22:20
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:22:20
SPEAKER_00: Because it'll save her from eating it because she's like with chocolate.
1:22:24
SPEAKER_00: She loves it.
1:22:25
SPEAKER_03: Biscuit.
1:22:26
SPEAKER_03: She'd see the amounts of fucking biscoff eggs we've got.
1:22:28
SPEAKER_00: She's actually put a thing on Fat Life for people to guess.
1:22:32
SPEAKER_00: She said, I've got um I've brought in a big load of biscoff eggs for this length of time.
1:22:37
SPEAKER_00: I can't remember how long it was now, 30 days or something, I can't remember.
1:22:40
SPEAKER_00: And she said, I'll have a guess how many, and I was like, I would say about 280, and she went, more.
1:22:47
SPEAKER_00: I went, Oh fuck off.
1:22:49
SPEAKER_03: It's it's it's it's nuts.
1:22:51
SPEAKER_03: Even I don't know how many these, but they're fucking everywhere.
1:22:54
SPEAKER_00: It's funny because after school of kink, I was fucked.
1:22:56
SPEAKER_00: So to I wasn't very well, and I was fucked.
1:22:58
SPEAKER_00: And she just came over to me and she went, I've got something for you, and she went like that.
1:23:02
SPEAKER_00: She went, it was a biscoff egg.
1:23:04
SPEAKER_00: And I was so grateful for it because I was hungry, I hadn't really had loaves to eat, and in the car, no way I just needed a bit of sugar just to get me home.
1:23:10
SPEAKER_00: Fucking inhaled it.
1:23:12
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely lovely, I haven't had it in real life.
1:23:14
SPEAKER_00: Lovely.
1:23:14
SPEAKER_03: Do you know what?
1:23:15
SPEAKER_03: The one thing I've said to me, though, like you bought that many.
1:23:17
SPEAKER_03: You're probably gonna after after your next day, you're gonna be like, I don't like them anymore.
1:23:21
SPEAKER_00: That's it, yeah.
1:23:22
SPEAKER_00: And then what the fuck are we gonna do with that?
1:23:23
SPEAKER_00: You put yourself off them, don't you?
1:23:24
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I used to be obsessed with Reese's.
1:23:29
SPEAKER_00: Put them in the boat.
1:23:29
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you couldn't.
1:23:30
SPEAKER_03: I used to be obsessed with Reese's, and then I just got it.
1:23:33
SPEAKER_03: The kids would like get at me for like fucking birthdays, Christmas, and then I got I got someone where I think I'd like one of the cupcakes, and I was like, Yeah, sick of it.
1:23:40
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and then you don't really want to tell people, you're like, Yeah, yeah.
1:23:43
SPEAKER_03: But then it kind of comes to a stage where you're out to see like a reason like these anyone is please don't fucking stop buying them for me.
1:23:49
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
1:23:50
SPEAKER_00: Anyway, on that cupcake bomb show, we're gonna go! So, shall I do the uh the outro or can you remember?
1:24:00
SPEAKER_00: Funny enough, I was out with Barry and Kev last night.
1:24:02
SPEAKER_00: Uh you were there for a little bit, weren't you?
1:24:04
SPEAKER_00: But you weren't there when we were getting pissed later on.
1:24:07
SPEAKER_03: I had a tame one.
1:24:08
SPEAKER_00: We wanted to get a group photo, but you got off.
1:24:10
SPEAKER_03: I know I know you did mention about doing it, like uh Yeah.
1:24:13
SPEAKER_00: So, um Barry and Kev were doing the if you binge watching thing at the end.
1:24:18
SPEAKER_00: And they got it right.
1:24:19
SPEAKER_00: So next time they're on, I'm gonna get them to do it.
1:24:21
SPEAKER_00: Kev's already got it down, really, is Barry.
1:24:22
SPEAKER_03: Oh, he fucking was, wouldn't he?
1:24:24
SPEAKER_03: I know, yeah.
1:24:25
SPEAKER_03: He's a suck out.
1:24:26
SPEAKER_03: He brings you the fucking apple and an evidence, doesn't he, when you zoom any corn?
1:24:30
SPEAKER_00: He doesn't know what you might do now if he sees this.
1:24:34
SPEAKER_00: So if you're binge watching, put the kettle on the CM5.
1:24:37
SPEAKER_00: If not, we'll see you next week.
1:24:38
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:24:39
SPEAKER_00: Bye.
1:24:40
SPEAKER_03: Ta-da!
1:24:41
SPEAKER_00: And there we have it! Another day made better by listening to the creators of chaos.
1:24:46
SPEAKER_00: Thanks for dropping by, and if you enjoyed the show, we'd really appreciate you sharing your love the Panthercell Podcast with your friends.
1:24:53
SPEAKER_00: Don't forget to give us a follow on our socials, maybe leave us some five-star reviews, and feel free to send us an email to magic at thepantasellpodcast.co.uk, or even interact us on Facebook because we love channels to you.
1:25:07
SPEAKER_00: Be sure to stop by next week because that's what Mowie says.
1:25:11
SPEAKER_00: I don't know where I'm going next, but I promise it will be borrowed.
1:25:15
SPEAKER_00: Catch you soon.