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Robert Greene | The Christian Reeve Podcast #216 · The Christian Reeve Podcast

0:00
Alright, hello and welcome to the Christian Reef podcast.
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Today's guest is the co-founder of life pet dot care.
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His name was Robert Green. Welcome to the show.
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Roberto you did. Thank you.
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Thank you for having me. It's a pleasure.
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It's always a pleasure actually. On the way here, I was enjoying
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the Sun, and I think it in my head about dislike, what an
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honor it is to get to do this show every single time like, is
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honestly, like, if anything, because I'm coming up on three
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years now and my list is will get sick of me saying this all
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the time, but But I don't care. I love doing this and I love it
0:32
more than I ever have. So, thank you so much for the
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most interesting people I do and it's amazing like, how much you
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learn and like, how how you grow how you become a better
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conversation list as well, that's sort of another element
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to it, which I never really considered, but to keep a
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conversation going is kind of an art form in of itself.
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But speaking of which, let's get straight into you.
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Talk to us about your relationship with pets.
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And where that started? Well, when I was little kid, my
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grandmother had dogs and cats. And there was this one cat named
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happy cat. And for some reason happy and we
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were like babies, but happy cat would knock things.
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Off her piano to get us to laugh and she would scold happy cat.
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But happy cat, love the audience.
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So I I think that was my fondest or most earliest memory, of
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appreciating animals. So I think then it grew from
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there. We had a family pet, name,
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Pebbles, and we have Turtles and we had guinea pigs.
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So, yeah, I've always had animals.
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My partner now has a Doberman Pinscher.
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So, yes, animals have always been in my life and I think how
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how they affect individuals in a very A wholesome and loving way,
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you know, they really humble us. But he think is the appeal for
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you personally when it comes to having a pet, generally speaking
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that what's the advantages? One of the biggest advantages is
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companionship, you know, like you're watching a movie and you
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have your dog to cuddle with or cap to cuddle with.
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I always call them furry, snuggle buddies, there's
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something amazing about that, isn't that?
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Like, I get that with dogs and cats were doesn't matter what
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kind of day you're having, you just kind of sit there with them
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and the energy shift is different, but I can think of so
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many times and I just been walking down the street and I've
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been having like a really bad day and I just see a dog or
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something. And I just Instantly feel happy
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again amazing. It's like a yeah, I don't know.
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It's like magic. Let's talk about your company.
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I'm up, but I'm in sort of intrigued about this.
2:56
So, how did you start life, pet, dog care?
3:01
So life pet that cares. The world's first, only pet care
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administrator and I don't know about the UK, but in North
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America both Canada and the United States.
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If someone leaves, let's say ten thousand dollars to a caregiver
3:16
to care for an animal, there are no legal Provisions to prevent
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the caregiver from just putting the animal down and pocketing of
3:24
ten thousand dollars and there although their it's rare,
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there's been a lot of heart-wrenching Ares I have
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heard where, you know, a family dog was left to someone who
3:34
really didn't care for the dog, put the dog down the family
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takes the pet caregiver to court but there's no jurisdiction.
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If you are the owner you have the final say on, you know, the
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life of that animal. There is no law that says you
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cannot put a an animal down just for frivolous reasons.
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You could just put the animal down for whatever you know, So
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with no please I interrupted sorry.
4:05
No. What were you gonna say?
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Literally all I was going to say following on from from that was
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I assume that the ownership automatically goes to whoever is
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Like a sort of responsible for the the estate I assume.
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So unless it's explicitly said in there, the dog goes to so on.
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So then it's just automatically goes to that person.
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Right? Right.
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So I mean, the decision of the executor of the will would have
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jurisdiction on where the animal would go to, but those aren't
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really the cases that were seeing the case that we're
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saying is, you know, someone is named in the will and that One
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really just wanted the money. They didn't really want the
4:50
animal. So you know, those are really
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heart-wrenching because there's just no Provisions or laws that
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really look at the best interest of the animal.
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You know, courts are now slowly moving towards looking at
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animals be on property. So prior to probably 1996 I
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believe I think the first case in New York came about what
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would happen in divorce cases. They would look at who bought
5:20
the pet. They wouldn't look at who cared
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for the pet in a warning, you know ownership of the pet and
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you know some divorces get really ugly and maybe someones
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vengeful and wants to you know put the the animal down just to
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hurt the other person and so you know slowly but surely so
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courts, classify animals as property but here's the problem
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with that. That you could go home and
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destroy your chair and there's no, you know, legal issues, but
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you can go home and tell your animal you'll get arrested.
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So animals, really aren't property, the there are
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responsibilities in animal ownership for animal safety.
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So courts are now moving towards looking at what's best for the
6:11
animal, you know, and taking into account who cared for the
6:15
animal longest instead of who The animal.
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So, you know, this is just taking it a step further saying,
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okay, so we said that pet trusts so the flux come to us and then
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they get administered according to the estate requirements.
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So, you know, let's say Nancy left ten thousand dollars for
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the care for cap to Betty, the estate would come into our trust
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and we would pay Betty according to the wishes of the estate how
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many, you know, business to the veterinarian.
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Proper food care, you know, so there's a whole list of
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requirements that, you know, Betty, would theoretically
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hypothetically, have to meet to get her dispensation of pay for
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that month, for the care of the animal.
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So it puts a little bit of a buffer in terms of preventing
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abuse from happening. So that's that's where our core
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of our business, our but we are animal lovers and in doing that,
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we With a lot of seniors and what we discovered was since
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covid. A lot of people especially low
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income and seniors were getting pest, but not realizing the
7:30
enormous time and energy required in caring for animals.
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So what happened here is that we saw a lot of pet shelters being
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flooded with unwanted animals, you know, some, in some cases
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it's like I didn't realize they needed so much attention.
7:48
Action and I have mobility issues, or I didn't know that
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animals cost so much and I can't really afford, you know, to take
7:55
care of the animal. So then they, you know, bring
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them to the shelters and I am volunteered at a shelter and
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shelter. She really have a thing called
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the 80/20 rule. In the 80/20 rule is if you have
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space for 100 animals, you say your capacities for 80 because
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you have to leave 20% for disasters.
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So, because the covid-19, They're at capacity, they're at
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their 98, you know, 100 pet and they really can't account for
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disasters. So we approached the state of
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Colorado to do, a pilot project called The Pet Care, contingency
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plan. And this made national news in
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the United States, the veterinary Association, loved us
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as it was a way of minimizing or mitigating a pets being sent to
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to pet shelters. And And making people realize,
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if you're in the hospital, if you have died, you know, please
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name a caregiver and that was very, very important.
8:58
So if you want I could talk about the pilot because it's
9:02
been phenomenal. Yeah, sure.
9:04
I'd love to hear the progress of the.
9:06
Yeah. So the pilot address the issue
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of low income and senior housing as to look at how to mitigate
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going to. You know, getting people to be
9:20
more responsible with their pets, there's a pet caregiver
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guide and in that guide, you go through a workshop and it tells
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you it asks about your lifestyle.
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A lot of people think oh when they first think about an
9:34
animal, they always think I want a dog or cat.
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They don't know about the responsibilities.
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So this work but makes you go through these exercises to talk
9:43
about your lifestyle in the might come back saying you know
9:45
hey you have mobility issues a dog Auger cat might not be the
9:49
best thing for you, maybe your turtle or a fish, you know, an
9:52
animal in the containment environment would be good for
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you and then the second part of the workshop, sorry to announce
9:59
an interesting, it's yeah, it kind of blows my mind.
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Just like how obvious that is to think about as well.
10:07
Like I suppose in many instances, you might not think
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that far ahead, you know? I mean by that.
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Oh, that's nice. Okay, they'll get cat but then
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if you got mobility issues as an example, then it's like how you
10:17
gonna walk the dog? Yeah, simply remember and
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puppies are rambunctious, right? You know that a lot of people
10:27
don't think about that, but then the second part of the, the
10:29
caregiver guide is there, there is a financial worksheet where
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you put the finances, how much of that narrowing cost, how much
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does food costs? And once you add it all up, you
10:40
might come to realization. Yeah, I really can't afford a
10:44
dog or a cat, but I can afford a goldfish, you know.
10:48
That's what my budgets for. So it makes people make rational
10:52
decisions based on the, you know, the current situation
10:54
they're in, they may, you know, want in their hearts a dog or a
10:59
cat, but the reality or now is they don't know, but this
11:04
Workshop helps you plan for that.
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Now, you know how much to budget for now, you know, how much, you
11:08
know, you need to do in or make changes in your lifestyle to
11:12
accommodate for an animal. So so that was the first part
11:15
but the second part and the second part is really, really
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interesting. Was we have a series of 10
11:20
questions about pet temperament? Has your dog or cat or pet ever
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been anyone? Are they comfortable around
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strangers? And from that we have an
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algorithm that spits out a sticker and they look like this.
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And they go on the door warning, First Responders.
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If there's a dangerous animal there, almost every paramedic
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I've spoken to, when we were trying to do this pilot said,
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I've gotten bitten by an animal, you know, and the issue is Even
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if it's a service animal animals can't distinguish whether
11:53
there's someone is harming. Their owners are helping their
11:56
owners. So they try to intervene and you
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know, you're in an emergency situation situation where you
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might not be able to secure the animal into a room, so that the
12:07
First Responders can take care of them.
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So what's amazing is in this pilot.
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They place the buildings that are in this pilot into the 911
12:17
dispatch. And so now the dispatchers can
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ask question, you know. So because dispatchers, only on
12:24
emergencies, I think, I think 9/11 in the UK's 311, isn't it?
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It's none. 999999. Right, I remember, it was it was
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different, it's 999. So now remember, dispatchers can
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only go on the information of the caller and the color might
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not know that there's an animal in the house or the coral of
12:44
might not know the temperament. So now they're like, is there?
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Sticker on the door. Yes.
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What is the color of the sticker?
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So now based on the color, the sticker.
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They know if there's a dangerous animal.
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And so now, they could dispatch animal control with the First
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Responders to protect the First Responders.
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So, this is had an enormous impact in the way we handle
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emergency responses now so much so that, you know, like I said,
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we got National coverage. So now we have States calling us
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saying, you know, we want to talk about your pilot and and
13:18
Program to incorporate it. In fact, Colorado is working on
13:23
legislation based upon our pilot project which, you know, we hope
13:29
all the states will do because that's really helpful.
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The third thing that we had from the pilot that was very
13:36
successful in this sort of touches upon when you were
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talking about how people don't really think ahead.
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Is that what we found in the pilot because the focus was on
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low income. And senior housing was a lot of
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People are, like, I want to care for my animal after I passed but
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I don't have the $200 to go to a lawyer.
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So, in the pilot we gave them free pet codicils.
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A codicil is basically an addendum to a will sew on a
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will. If you need to add things to it,
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you add a codicil are codicils. Are designed to either be added
14:10
to a will or to stand alone and the seniors got that for free.
14:14
So now they know they don't have to spend the two hundred
14:17
dollars. They Get the they have a will
14:20
and let me tell you why that's important.
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Two reasons. Number one, a lot of people
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let's say, you go to a pet shelter in your like okay I have
14:28
this pain in it and care for it for the rest of my life.
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But you don't know what the rest of your life is.
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You might get hit by ambulance the next day, you know, and then
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it's all over for you, but there's no codicil.
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So the paint goes back to the shelter.
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Again, the goal is to mitigate pets, going, back to the
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shelter. So we're doing this big push for
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shelter. Has to issue codicils, and we've
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given them very lucrative deals on putting codicils on the table
14:55
for themselves. If they want to donate codicils
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to to their adopt, these, we give them to them free.
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If they're in the u.s. it's called a 501 c 3, which is a,
15:10
it's a not-for-profit and then we get the tax credit for
15:14
donating the codicils or we. Give them a discount on the
15:19
codicils and they actually get revenue from selling each
15:23
codicil. So we worked out deals with
15:25
shelters saying look he's have to go in the adoption kit.
15:29
Now with our pilot the pilot has it for the seniors because they
15:35
want to do this and you have to realize most people outlive
15:40
their pets. But if you're 98 years old and
15:43
you have, you know, a two year old cat, The likelihood that the
15:46
cat will outlive you is highly likely.
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So that's why we gave them free pet codicils.
15:52
So the pilot has been extremely successful with regards to this
15:59
culture. So is that how you pronounce
16:00
that? Yeah.
16:01
Okay. Does it kind of?
16:05
Because you mentioned there that, like it prevents the pet
16:08
from going directly back to the shelter.
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And based on what you said before, your company, for
16:14
example, offers all these different services, that then
16:16
make sure that the animal is then looked after.
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So, where does the pet go isn't like a sanctuary?
16:23
Is it something like what exactly would be the place that
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the purple go? To it really depends on the
16:30
individual. If they have a family or friend
16:33
that wants to take care of the animal, they need a family in
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the codicil which I'm glad you said that.
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Because this was another thing that we were discovering in.
16:43
Doing this pilot project, let's say your name is Nancy and your
16:47
neighbors name is Betty and Nancy had a conversation over T
16:52
saying you know, hey Betty, would you take care of my cat,
16:57
you know. Should I die?
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And that is the sure. I'll take care of the cast.
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So Betty goes on on a long, two months holiday and during that
17:05
time Nancy dies, that was a verbal agreement that no one
17:09
knew, right? So no one knew what to do.
17:11
With the pet, the cat goes to the shelter.
17:13
The shelter says the cats too old to go out for adoption.
17:16
We're going to have to put the pet down.
17:18
Oh my God. You know Petty comes back.
17:21
Oh yeah. They're at capacity right now so
17:23
they have to make decisions there used to be like a E 90-day
17:28
rule on pets some and it's kinda, you know what's the word?
17:34
I'm trying to be politically correct here.
17:38
Pet. No-kill policies are not know,
17:42
kill policies, pet, no-kill, policies are we hold the pet for
17:45
x amount of days? Before we put the pet down, I
17:48
get it like you put like an advocate up.
17:50
You say, does anyone want to adopt this?
17:53
It's got a butt, and then they'll have to put the date
17:56
like days. The atom was going to be put
17:59
down now you just sound so sad to say man Jesus yeah maybe I
18:02
get it I get it. So my point is is that you know
18:08
you know Betty was gone, she comes back she goes to the
18:10
shelter. She was what I was supposed to
18:12
take care of the animal, they're like we're sorry.
18:14
But the animal down, you know, so this puts in writing the
18:20
information that they had that verbal agreement on so that
18:23
everyone knows you know how this pet is.
18:27
Going to be cared for. So these are worst-case
18:30
scenarios but you know like like you said people don't think
18:34
ahead or plan ahead and so our pet contingency plan is the
18:38
whole purpose of that is to help people plan ahead in a more you
18:43
know, Humane sort of way of thinking.
18:47
And on that note, I just want to ask a question regarding right
18:52
now and in relation to the current legislation that's going
18:56
on on the conversations that are being held.
18:58
So, let's suppose the, the owner doesn't put anything in their
19:02
will. They don't put down a cortisol
19:07
as you put it before. So there's just nothing.
19:10
And there's like, no one nowhere for the pet to go or anything
19:13
like that. So, on, that logic, based on
19:16
what we spoke, About so far, the pet would automatically go back
19:19
to a shelter. They'd have that no-kill policy
19:22
thing in place and everything. Is there something that's being
19:26
put forward with legislation right now to sort of prevent
19:30
that like white government, there's only schemes in place.
19:33
Obviously, you mentioned this pilot, but is there anything
19:35
else like it? Was that just how it exists
19:38
right now. All right.
19:39
Now, the state of Colorado is working on legislation to ensure
19:43
that people assign caregivers other than So to really mitigate
19:48
pets going to pet shelters because like I said, you know,
19:52
with the economy, the way it is and with, you know, people
19:57
offloading pets now that they have mobility and can get out of
19:59
their Apartments, shelters are at their limit and I'll give you
20:02
the perfect example of why we're in a worst-case scenario.
20:07
And I told you about the 80/20 rule, let's say you have a
20:11
building with 100 units in it, right, and 40 of those units
20:16
have pets. And that building catches fire.
20:19
Okay, the displaced tenants usually are placed in hotels and
20:27
you know, hotels do not take pets, right?
20:29
So 40 animals are going to a shelter that they cannot handle.
20:34
Okay, under our program, we have the caregivers.
20:38
So we just do a call out to the caregivers thing.
20:41
Hey, there's been a fire. Can you come get the pet that
20:43
way? The pet shelters are not Not
20:47
burdened with this massive amount of animals that they
20:51
cannot handle, and they might not even have cages for all of
20:55
them. So, this is why states are
20:58
taking this seriously, there is legislation, it was it passed in
21:03
2006 in the United States, where Hurricane, Katrina.
21:08
They saw so many service animals and FEMA and The Rescuers are
21:13
like our mandate is only rescue people.
21:17
Not service animals. Western Society has had such a
21:21
huge uptick of animals in people's lives that they really
21:25
had to accommodate for them. So it's called the 2006 act.
21:30
If you're going to rescue someone and they have a service
21:32
anymore family pet, you are obligated to seem that pet as
21:36
well. So again the burdens on the US
21:39
government to house feed and shelter these animals during
21:43
disasters, we have a solution to that and we're actually talking.
21:47
Going to FEMA to. Look at how we're going to apply
21:51
what we're doing, which is a central database of animals to
21:56
help in disaster relief. So this little pilot has had so
22:02
much impact on how animals are cared for in contingency in
22:07
emergencies that, you know, all eyes are on us right now.
22:11
In terms of producing something on a mass scale and we're just a
22:15
start-up. So we're quick.
22:17
Ramping up the working with the government's to get this off the
22:20
ground in a way that's helpful and not harmful to both sides.
22:25
The, the pet owners and the pets themselves.
22:28
Have, you got to a point now where the government is kind of
22:31
directly suggesting your company or similar companies, as a sort
22:37
of point of cool in scenarios like that, like they actively
22:43
referring you. Well, we're still in the testing
22:45
mode for example. When we did the pilot in
22:48
Colorado, it was in the city of Denver.
22:50
So we don't know how to apply this for rural areas for
22:57
indigenous communities. So more work is needed.
23:01
So, what we're asking the government to do is, could you,
23:04
you know, so this like grant money so that we can study this
23:07
further. So that's, that's where we are
23:10
in this stage because Colorado so much more advanced because we
23:14
did the pilot. They They said, you know what,
23:19
your findings have been helpful. We're moving to the legislation
23:23
legislative stages. To really Implement a broader
23:28
sort of program because this has been phenomenal for us.
23:32
One of the things you mentioned earlier was about instances
23:35
where, you know, pets by humans. I don't know how that exists in
23:41
the States but a lot of times when that happens in the UK the
23:45
animal tends to be put down, unfortunately.
23:49
So I wanted to discuss the sort of legal recourse concerning
23:53
when a person has been bitten by say a cat or a dog or something
23:57
like that. What can you tell us about that?
23:58
And how for instance, your company would help.
24:01
Something like that. Okay, well for starters and I
24:04
have to put this big disclaimer on an.
24:07
I'm not a lawyer. Yep, I get it.
24:10
But we do have a pet temperament assessment where we look in them
24:17
and look at their assessment and it was funny that you should
24:21
mention that because there was a group that there was this
24:24
activist group against pit bulls and they wanted to endorse us
24:29
but they have this internal conversation.
24:31
Saying, you know, a pet temperament test could help us
24:35
or harm us because one of the, you know, someone their dog
24:39
better attack, someone they did the pet temperament test, and
24:42
they said, no, the dog is docile, you know, my answer to
24:46
that is some dogs. Were bred for aggressiveness,
24:50
right? You know, so there might be, you
24:53
know, certain steroid levels are certain, you know, behavioral
24:57
levels that are very high in particular pets, but it's highly
25:00
unlikely. Lee that certain pets would come
25:03
back as non aggressive in certain areas.
25:06
And you can say that your dog or cat or snake or anything is as
25:13
docile, but, you know, it's a ticking Time Bomb.
25:16
Meaning they could change at any moment given the scenario.
25:21
So we do these assessments that they're not cheap.
25:25
They're very expensive. Only because, you know, we have
25:28
to get, you know, pet psychologists involved, we have
25:31
to do. Test stool samples.
25:33
There's a whole plethora of exam set up to go.
25:37
These are usually for court cases.
25:40
These aren't usually for individuals but you know you
25:44
might think twice. If you're adopting certain
25:47
animals and you have children, you know?
25:51
So you know this pet temperament test before you adopt might be
25:55
relevant to you, we've never had that situation.
25:59
But you know these Things. The public now, knows,
26:03
especially attorneys, know, that, you know, these services
26:07
are available to help in court, cases in dealing with animal
26:10
attacks. Thank you.
26:13
One thing I want to ask you about is just a bit silly, but
26:16
this does happen sometimes it's a bit extreme scenario, but have
26:20
you come across an instance? Where, for instance, a person
26:23
decides to nominate their pet as the being that's going to
26:30
receive their entire And if so, how do you sort of navigate that
26:35
have you had to personally do with that of you heard of this
26:37
before? Like how does how does everyone
26:40
feel like I have a story for you.
26:42
Google Leona, Helmsley Leona Helmsley left. 12.5 million
26:47
dollars to her dog and apparently or allegedly, she
26:52
left nothing to her stepkids. Oh my God.
26:56
So yes, you know that it has Happened and there's one in
27:03
Europe. There's another woman in Europe
27:05
that left millions of dollars to her animal.
27:08
You know, you get these elderly individuals that have gobs and
27:12
gobs of money, and they want to leave the money to the, the
27:16
individual or animal that cared for the most in their final
27:19
years. And it's growing than the amount
27:23
of people that will be, you know, exorbitant amounts to the
27:28
care of their pet is just ridiculous.
27:31
Lehigh right now, it's good for our business but the reality is
27:39
I just can't imagine that like sitting there in the room with
27:42
the will being read and you can find out that you got nothing in
27:49
the telling got it like come on like this 12.5 million really to
27:54
the dog. We didn't even get like just a
27:57
couple of thousand I don't know. Something like cheese something
28:00
about it so then you get Nothing, right then you're like
28:02
hi. I'll take care of the animal for
28:04
now gets the money. Puts the dog down Pockets the
28:08
money so that's why we are in existence to ensure that you
28:13
know the animals cared for in a manner that is aligned with the
28:17
estate wishes. So yeah no I totally get that
28:20
and I think that like a company such as yours is kind of an
28:24
invaluable thing. You you need that kind of
28:26
intermediary for these kind of crazy situations where
28:30
especially what we spoke. About before, where, you know,
28:33
that there hasn't really been put any sort of care in place or
28:36
thought and place to kind of make sure the animals taken care
28:39
of by. This is very much a sort of
28:42
situation that's needed. Although I do think that
28:44
something sort of briefly mentioned earlier but there
28:48
should be something maybe even stay allocated.
28:50
That's just always put in place just to make sure that the
28:53
animals are at least kind of given, you know, a bit of a bit
28:58
of time first. Even if it's just like something
29:01
like Is months or something, like it because it takes a long
29:04
time for animals to be adopted at the best of times anyway from
29:07
shelters. So, I don't know and and I don't
29:10
know, maybe it would be even more appealing to potential pet
29:14
owners. If you sort of, take on a pair
29:18
and there's like some money in place that's been put aside from
29:22
an existing will, you know, it's like okay.
29:24
So I don't have to incur all of these costs sort of Straight up,
29:28
you know, it's it sounds good to me.
29:33
One thing I meant to ask you about was pet custody court
29:36
cases, which we sort of touched on it a little bit earlier.
29:41
But I just wanted to kind of drive through how this works and
29:46
how these kind of walk us through how pet custody cases
29:50
work and also like how your team kind of helps with that.
29:54
Well we do not really get involved in Picasa these cases
30:01
other than you know we Lobby for the Humane treatment and
30:06
fairness towards the animal over you know individual rights in
30:13
states that have laws that do not see pets Beyond property.
30:19
So we're trying to get, you know, States and courts and And
30:23
the sad thing is the courts know this.
30:25
The, the sad thing is, in court cases, you see a lot of Judges
30:29
saying, you know, I hate to rule this way, but my hands are tied
30:33
because of how the laws are structured, right?
30:36
And it's interesting because when you see these court cases,
30:41
you see a little bit of misogyny in them because the likelihood
30:45
that someone purchases the an animal for their relationship,
30:49
it's usually men buying gifts of paps, Dogs for, you know, women
30:55
and then in worst cases, you know?
30:58
So you know, their partner, their female Partners have these
31:01
pets, they're caring for them, they bonded with them and then
31:05
they're getting a divorce and the courts don't see any of
31:08
that. They only see who purchased the
31:10
animal and, you know, so it's these are very long drawn-out
31:17
painful cases for both parties to go through and luckily now,
31:23
Judges have jurisdiction in States of Maine Colorado and
31:27
other places where they could say, what is in the best
31:31
interest of the, the pet. And in some cases, you know, the
31:35
judge can rule the pet, gets a new owner because both of you
31:40
are abusive, you know, especially in cases, with drug
31:44
abuse, you know. So there's there's been a lot of
31:49
change in the last 10, 20 years in terms of how pets are, you
31:54
know, in court, cases can, especially custody battles are
31:58
awarded and cared for in those conflicts, over pet ownership.
32:03
What are the sort of key considerations for ownership
32:06
after the owner has passed away? Like, so let's say there's a
32:10
dispute between these two people and it does sort of bored down
32:13
to like, who is, you know, the better owner or sort of bet best
32:17
kind of Hope for this pair. But what are those
32:21
considerations? Wait, I'm a little confused by
32:23
your question because you said passed away and then you said
32:26
custody. But yeah.
32:27
So the, the pet the past owners passed away.
32:32
There's a conflict over pet ownership may be in court or
32:36
just in general. Like, you know, when they're
32:38
sort of deciding it, between two people who want to take care of
32:41
the animal, let's say the third party, either your company or
32:45
someone else has to kind of then determine who gets custody of
32:49
the animal. What would those considerations
32:52
for ownership? Be.
32:54
Yeah, we wouldn't make that determination.
32:56
That would be a court decision. So usually the executor has the
33:02
jurisdiction over again, sadly property of who gets what.
33:06
So, you know, it's the same scenario where two sisters fight
33:10
over Furniture. The executor has the final say
33:13
on that. They could take that to court,
33:17
but then you No, you're exhausting money time, you know?
33:21
So in terms of, you know, how executor has historically?
33:26
Look at caring for pets. They look at two things will and
33:32
skill, okay? We'll is the desire to take care
33:36
of the pet and then skill is the ability to take care of the bed.
33:40
So you might have the desire but you might not have the financial
33:43
ability, right? Or you might have the financial
33:46
ability but you're not really Pet lover.
33:48
Are, you know, so that's usually from my experience.
33:54
How, I've seen these cases sort of play out is who has the most
33:58
optimal will and skill for the best interest of the pit with an
34:04
answer. Yeah, yeah.
34:05
Thank you so much and we'll cuz for exactly how life pet don't
34:09
care. So, it helps pet owners.
34:11
So like all of your services in general, like how, how exactly
34:13
do you help pet owners? Sure.
34:15
So you Usually, it's an estate planner or an attorney that will
34:21
contact us saying, we have a client.
34:24
We are preparing a will they would like to leave, you know,
34:29
fifty thousand dollars for the care of their pet and they've
34:32
assigned it to, you know, the the daughter, however we have
34:38
some stipulations, you know, and that's usually where we go back
34:42
to the interaction with the lawyer saying, okay, what are
34:46
the particular? Missions, you know, for example,
34:51
maybe the pet is only comfortable with a certain
34:55
veterinarian, you know. So, you know, is this person
34:59
living within a reasonable amount of distance to go to this
35:03
veterinarian? And then, you know, how much
35:06
should we reimburse them for mileage?
35:09
You know, for for going to that veterinarian?
35:12
If they're out of the way, you know, what is that veterinarian?
35:17
And these Are things even lawyers.
35:18
Don't think about, what does that veterinarian retires?
35:21
Do you have a backup Veterinary? You know?
35:24
So we have a list of questions and sadly, pets.
35:28
And Will's are not standardized and that's our next big project.
35:32
After we get all this out of the way, is to really standardize
35:35
how pets are written into Wills, because they're all over the
35:40
map. And a lot of attorneys are like,
35:43
wow, we didn't think about that or, you know, you know.
35:46
So so the Town is opened in trust to like pet dot care and
35:53
then it's paid out monthly weekly.
35:57
However, it's setup and structured and we like to do
36:01
monthly because month, leave kind of easier to manage.
36:05
So we'll set aside. This is how much is set aside
36:08
for the pet on this issue, you know, and then decisions on
36:14
light care issues like at what point?
36:17
Ain't you know is termination allowed, you know, or if the pet
36:23
this is very important that we tell a lot of attorneys is if
36:28
the pet died by an accident, they had to provide either a
36:35
animal control or police report about the accent.
36:37
Say, oh the dog got hit by a car, we can't take you at face
36:41
value. If you say that, you know, we
36:44
have two here, we have to have a report We have to have something
36:48
tangible so that we can document that because everything about
36:53
animal care, administration is documentation, documentation
36:56
documentation. You have to present produce the
36:59
receipts, you have to produce the appointment schedules that
37:02
you're meeting the requirements of the state.
37:05
And we usually give them, you know, pet caregivers sort of
37:11
this overview of what's expected of them prior to them signing.
37:15
Because we're like, if you can't do this, don't sign that you're
37:19
going to be the caregiver. And there's been times, we will
37:22
have backed out saying, oh, I didn't know.
37:23
It took so much responsibility, you know, I think, you know,
37:27
there's someone better suited to myself, you know, or if you're
37:30
thinking about moving, you know, that's another thing to take
37:34
into account, you know, a lot of people have jobs where, you
37:37
know, their job requires them to move a lot.
37:41
And you know, the estate's requiring that, you know, a
37:46
specific In is required or specific dog foods required and
37:51
you might not have access in your new location that have
37:54
those. So you have to take into
37:56
consideration those. Now mind you there are scenarios
37:59
where new company, we haven't crossed this yet but we're
38:02
you'll get into situation where yes everything is agreed upon
38:06
but then you know tragedy struck in the caregiver has to move
38:10
across the state, you know and then there's you know, two
38:15
things we could do one is You know, look at the displacement
38:20
of the animal, the impact of the animal, or is there another
38:24
caregiver that we could pass these responsibilities onto?
38:27
So that's the other option that we would look at and pet care
38:32
administration. What would you say if been,
38:36
you'll kind of biggest success stories or most memorable
38:40
moments helping pounders? um, Honestly, finding the proper
38:48
person. I think to me.
38:52
A lot of people don't really know how to properly assess
38:55
individuals. We actually do have a service
38:58
that does assessments of individuals, where let's say you
39:02
have two daughters. You're not sure which daughter
39:04
or two sons and you're not sure which to leave the animal to,
39:10
you could bring them in for evaluation.
39:12
So we can come back saying, we can't tell you, who is the
39:17
better caregiver? What we can say is based on
39:20
these These assessments, one scored higher than another, and
39:25
that helps add to your decision-making.
39:28
We would never say this person is the better person.
39:31
What we can say is, we did an assessment.
39:34
We looked at these criteria and based on their answers, this
39:39
person School scored this way. And this person scored, you
39:43
know, this way. And that might help you seeing,
39:46
you know, in your, in your decision, which one would be
39:50
best. For your pet.
39:52
Would you say have been the biggest challenges in your line
39:57
of work? In general?
39:58
Like what has been the biggest things you faced?
40:03
I'm glad you asked that question because we went to a lot of
40:07
housing authorities knowing that this pilot helps so many.
40:11
So this pilot we're finding out is helping First Responders.
40:15
This pilot is helping the seniors.
40:18
That you know need codicils. This pilot is helping pet
40:21
shelters to talk to an executive director and they're like, oh we
40:26
have a program where we just ask for caregiver.
40:29
All right, so you just did that. But but what about all the other
40:34
benefits to go? All the other departments that
40:37
you could provide and I'm not interested.
40:40
You know, you find the individuals that just want to do
40:44
the bare minimum for their job to pick up a paycheck and then
40:47
you see people that have a vocation, a real passion for
40:51
Humanity and those are the people you really should value,
40:54
you know? And it's sad.
40:56
But you know I see that more often than not Not and it just
41:00
breaks my heart that people don't see, you know, these small
41:04
little things that you can do is for the greater good of all, you
41:08
know? And and that's a difficult thing
41:11
to kind of have to deal with. Speaking of doing things for the
41:16
greater, good of all. You mentioned at the top of this
41:19
that you were formerly a human rights activist.
41:22
These can you tell us about some of your work in that field?
41:29
It's been a lot. I think my biggest Issue are my
41:36
biggest moment that I was proudest of, you know?
41:40
Okay. The back up a bit.
41:42
I have been in my parents had always instilled in me, always
41:45
volunteer for something and I really value that, that was one
41:50
of the things they really put into us that, you know, always
41:55
always, give back, you know. And when I was in university, I
41:59
was the present Society of black students in South Africa, had a
42:02
part tied at the time and I actually got the ANC to come
42:06
lecture at are my University which was very interesting
42:11
because I remember being a student and we got a phone call
42:14
from the US state department and I was like whoa what are you
42:18
doing in group? So we had to submit a fill out a
42:23
form to the US government and tell them what was the intent of
42:28
the lecture. Blah blah blah.
42:30
But imagine being like this 19 year, old kid, getting this
42:33
phone call from the US state department asking and it was a
42:36
packed audience and absolute packed audience.
42:39
And and, you know, it was one of my moments of Joy but I I looked
42:43
at human rights as being very, very important.
42:46
And I remember in Russia, there was there, you know, passing
42:52
these anti-gay propaganda laws, but they weren't it was in
42:55
violation of a lot of you and Charter.
42:59
Arise. But one was the UN Charter
43:00
right? Of children so I wrote an
43:02
article telling them. Look you can.
43:05
Are you going to pass these propaganda laws?
43:06
But you're actually violating the rights of the child to say
43:10
that you know, nothing can be said to a child under the age of
43:15
18. That's lgbtq friendly in any way
43:21
shape or form and it was it was just so blatantly
43:25
discriminatory, but it was so bad.
43:29
Big that, you know, you can walk by a picnic and, you know,
43:34
people are celebrating privately but your child was influenced by
43:36
that and they can arrest everyone in that, you know,
43:40
that's traumatizing for a kid, you know.
43:43
So, You know, throughout my life, I just always fought for,
43:49
you know, rights of the child rights of the LGBT community,
43:54
you know, women's rights. So indigenous rights have also
43:59
been very important to me. In fact, when you know, we're
44:02
talking about all these projects.
44:03
I'm like, you know, we're talking about communities and I
44:06
find a lot of governments don't include indigenous communities
44:09
even though they're in their jurisdictions, I'm like, you
44:12
know, hey you gotta, you know, You have to include and
44:16
incorporate customs and cultures from many different scenarios.
44:21
You know, and Indigenous have a right to assess and to look at
44:26
the program according to their Community you know.
44:29
So that was kind of a surprise that to me it wasn't automatic
44:33
thought and to the government officials at Overlook them it
44:37
wasn't you know and that kind of bothered me.
44:41
You also mentioned that you did some work with save the
44:43
children, kind of dice wanted to sort of tap into that a little
44:46
bit about some of the work he did that.
44:48
Yeah. So saving children Canada was
44:52
amazing for starters. Princess Anne is the patron of
44:59
the organization. I got to meet her, she's a
45:00
wonderful person. Canada had jurisdiction in
45:06
Burkina Faso and Haiti. In some Latin American
45:12
countries, that can't remember because it was so long ago, but
45:15
a lot of the programs that we had were on Listen like you know
45:20
running medical facilities where they couldn't afford to have
45:23
them education programs. So although I was in the central
45:29
office my focus was more on fundraising and getting the
45:34
funds that we were needed Canada's very beautiful in that
45:38
manner because what the Canadian government usually does is say
45:42
we will have matching funding so whatever you raised we will
45:46
match from the Canadian government.
45:48
Which really worked out in our favor because we had a lot of
45:51
people, you know, there are states left us millions of
45:54
dollars and that counted towards the matching funds.
45:57
So, you know, I was very proud of that work and very proud to
46:02
see that, you know, Canada really is a human rights
46:07
country. They really want the world to be
46:10
a better place for all, and that all countries are like that, you
46:13
know, a lot of countries are like, what's in it for us, and,
46:16
and it's sad to see that. So, So I take special Pride that
46:19
this UK origin NGO in Canada. We were really making a
46:26
difference from a Canadian perspective.
46:30
Public quickfire questions for you just to kind of in the show
46:34
what's the best advice you've ever received.
46:39
The best advice I've ever received.
46:44
Try not to be reactionary so you might get a sudden news about
46:49
something and you really need all the information to process
46:56
it or you need to take a walk and, you know, clear your head.
47:02
But, you know, just try not to be reactionary to things, you
47:07
know, you might get some trauma or event that comes in front of
47:11
you and your first, you know, snap.
47:14
Decision might not be the best decision.
47:17
So I try very much just to calm myself down and whatever
47:21
scenario it is. And I might have to say, I know
47:23
you wanted immediate answer. I can't give you an immediate
47:26
answer, I really have to process this.
47:30
And what's the biggest life lesson you've learned so far?
47:35
Biggest life lesson or use your good questions?
47:42
Act in good faith, meaning the inherent worth and dignity of
47:46
everything as always been an important value to me.
47:49
So for example, This is the perfect example.
47:53
I can give you, let's say, you're walking down the street
47:56
and someone's begging for money and, you know, I don't ignore
47:59
them. I'm like, I'm sorry, I don't
48:01
have, you know, the money and this is important because people
48:05
assess people on their value to you and that at that moment
48:12
might seem trivial but you know that same person might have to
48:16
rescue you when you're stuck under a bus that's on fire, you
48:20
know. So Everyone has value do not say
48:24
that, you know, this person because of their life situation
48:28
has no value. That's not true.
48:30
So, I tried to be very mindful to give the inherent worth and
48:36
dignity to every individual that I come across, even the ones
48:40
that I think are bad or, you know, you know, doing more harm
48:45
than good. It's amazing.
48:46
How what's sometimes hit you? But that just something as
48:49
simple as that as we draw things to a close today.
48:52
Do you have any upcoming projects or some final thoughts
48:54
that you'd like to share with our listeners?
48:58
That again, the importance of thinking ahead, when you're
49:03
you're excited about adopting a new puppy or animal, get a
49:07
contingency plan, get a codicil. We sell them on our websites for
49:11
only 30 bucks, but I really want the public to know that, you
49:17
know, you don't know what tomorrow may bring.
49:20
And so plan accordingly, so that everyone is an inconvenience
49:25
from a sudden event. Brilliant.
49:28
You've been an absolutely brilliant guest.
49:30
It's been a real pleasure. Thank you so much for your time.
49:33
I really, really enjoyed this question.
49:35
That's wonderful. Thank you.
49:37
And so the listeners of the Christian re podcast, I hope you
49:40
enjoyed Today's Show and there's always be safe.
49:43
Be well and I'll see you in the next one.