Latest / The Philosophy Insights Collection / 26 - The Republic - Plato
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- 0:00Book seven, Part two. Who then, are those whom we shall compel
- 0:05to be guardians? Surely they will be the men who are wisest about affairs
- 0:10of state, and by whom the state is best administered, and who at
- 0:14the same time have other honors and another in a better life than that of
- 0:19politics. They are the men, and I will choose them, he replied.
- 0:24And now shall we consider in what way such guardians will be produced,
- 0:28and how they are to be brought from darkness to light, as some are
- 0:32said to have ascended from the world below to the gods by all means,
- 0:36he replied. The process, I said, is not the turning over of
- 0:42an oyster shell, but the turning round of a soul, passing from a
- 0:46day which is little better than night to the true day of being. That
- 0:50is the ascent from below, which we affirm to be true philosophy. Quite
- 0:56so, and should we not inquire what sort of nne has the power of
- 1:00effecting such a change? Certainly, what sort of knowledge is there which would
- 1:07draw the soul from becoming to being? And another consideration has just occurred to
- 1:12me. You will remember that our young men are to be warrior athletes.
- 1:18Yes, that was said, then this new kind of knowledge must have an
- 1:22additional quality? What quality? Usefulness? In war? Yes, if possible?
- 1:30There were two parts in our former scheme of education, were there?
- 1:34Not? Just so? There was gymnastic, which presided over the growth and
- 1:40decay of the body, and may therefore be regarded as having to do with
- 1:44generation and corruption. True, then that is not the knowledge which we are
- 1:49seeking to discover. No, but what do you say of music, which
- 1:55also entered to a certain extent into our former scheme? Music, he said,
- 2:00as you will remember, was the counterpart of gymnastic, and trained the
- 2:05guardians by the influences of habit by harmony, making them harmonious by rhythm rhythmical,
- 2:10but not giving them science. And the words, whether fabulous or possibly
- 2:15true, had kindred elements of rhythm and harmony in them. But in music
- 2:21there was nothing which tended to that good which you are now seeking. You
- 2:25are most accurate, I said, in your recollection. In music there certainly
- 2:31was nothing of the kind. But what branch of knowledge is there, my
- 2:36dear Glaucan, which is of the desired nature? Since all the useful arts
- 2:39were reckoned mean by us? Undoubtedly? And yet if music and gymnastic are
- 2:46excluded, and the arts are also excluded. What remains well? I said,
- 2:53there may be nothing left of our special subjects, And then we shall
- 2:58have to take something which is not special but of universal application. What may
- 3:05that be? A something which all arts and sciences and intelligences use in common,
- 3:10and which every one first has to learn among the elements of education.
- 3:15What is that the little matter of distinguishing one, two, and three in
- 3:23a word? Number and calculation? Do not all arts and sciences necessarily partake
- 3:29of them? Yes? Then the art of war partakes of them? To
- 3:35be sure? Then Palamedes, whenever he appears in tragedy, proves Agamemnon ridiculously
- 3:42unfit to be a general. Did you never remark? How he declares that
- 3:46he had invented number, and had numbered the ships and set in array the
- 3:51ranks of the army at Troy, which implies that they had never been numbered
- 3:55before. And Agamemnon must be supposed literally to have been incapable of counting his
- 4:01own feet. How could he if he was ignorant of number? And if
- 4:05that is true, what sort of general must he have been? I should
- 4:11say, a very strange one? If this was, as you say,
- 4:15can we deny that a warrior should have a knowledge of arithmetic? Certainly he
- 4:19should if he is to have the smallest understanding of military tactics, or indeed,
- 4:26I should rather say, if he is to be a man at all.
- 4:30I should like to know whether you have the same notion which I have
- 4:32of this study. What is your notion? It appears to me to be
- 4:38a study of the kind which we are seeking, and which leads naturally to
- 4:42reflection, but never to have been rightly used. For the true use of
- 4:46it is simply to draw the soul towards being. Will you explain your meaning?
- 4:53He said? I will try, I said, and I wish you
- 4:58would share the enquiry with me. Say yes or no? When I attempt
- 5:01to distinguish in my own mind, what branches of knowledge have this attracting power
- 5:06in order that we may have clearer proof that arithmetic is as I suspect,
- 5:13one of them, explain, he said, I mean to say that objects
- 5:18of sense are of two kinds. Some of them do not invite thought,
- 5:23because the sense is an adequate judge of them, while in the case of
- 5:28other objects, sense is so untrustworthy that further enquiry is imperatively demanded. You
- 5:34are clearly referring, he said, to the manner in which the senses are
- 5:39imposed upon by distance and by painting in light and shade. No, I
- 5:45said, that is not at all my meaning. Then what is your meaning?
- 5:50When speaking of uninviting objects? I mean those which do not pass from
- 5:56one sensation to the opposite. Inviting objects are those which do. In this
- 6:01latter case, the sense coming upon the object, whether at a distance or
- 6:06near, gives no more vivid idea of anything in particular than of its opposite.
- 6:13An illustration will make my meaning clearer. Here are three fingers, a
- 6:17little finger, a second finger, and a middle finger. Very good.
- 6:23You may suppose that they are seen quite close. And here comes the point,
- 6:28what is it? Each of them equally appears a finger, whether seen
- 6:33in the middle or at the extremity, Whether white or black, or thick
- 6:36or thin, it makes no difference. A finger is a finger all the
- 6:42same. In these cases a man is not compelled to ask a thought the
- 6:46question what is a finger? For the sight never intimates to the mind that
- 6:50a finger is other than a finger. True, And therefore I said,
- 6:57as we might expect, there is nothing here which invites or excites intelligence?
- 7:02There is not, he said, But is this equally true of the greatness
- 7:08and smallness of the fingers? Can sight adequately perceive them? And is no
- 7:14difference made by the circumstance that one of the fingers is in the middle and
- 7:17another at the extremity? And in like manner. Thus the touch adequately perceives
- 7:24the qualities of thickness or thinness, of softness or hardness. And so of
- 7:28the other senses do they give perfect intimations of such matters? Is not their
- 7:33mode of operation? On this wise? The sense which is concerned with the
- 7:38quality of hardness is necessarily concerned also with the quality of softness, and only
- 7:44intimates to the soul that the same thing is felt to be both hard and
- 7:47soft. You are quite right, he said, And must not the soul
- 7:54be perplexed at this intimation which the sense gives of a heart which is also
- 7:59soft? What again, is the meaning of light and heavy? If that
- 8:03which is light is also heavy, and that which is heavy light, Yes,
- 8:11he said, These intimations which the soul receives are very curious and required
- 8:16to be explained. Yes, I said, And in these perplexities. The
- 8:22soul naturally summons to her aid calculation and intelligence, that she may see whether
- 8:28the several objects announced to her are one or two? True, And if
- 8:33they turn out to be two, is not each of them one and different?
- 8:37Certainly? And if each is one and both are two, she will
- 8:43conceive the two as in a state of division, for if they were undivided,
- 8:48they could only be conceived of as one. True. The eye certainly
- 8:54did see both small and gray, but only in a confused manner. They
- 8:58were not distinguished. Yes, whereas the thinking mind, intending to light up
- 9:05the chaos, was compelled to reverse the process and look as small and great,
- 9:09as separate and not confused. Very true? Was not this the beginning
- 9:15of the enquiry what is great and what is small? Exactly so? And
- 9:22thus arose a distinction of the visible and the intelligible? Most true? This
- 9:28was what I meant when I spoke of impressions which invited the intellect or the
- 9:33reverse. Those which are simultaneous with opposite impressions invite thought. Those which are
- 9:39not simultaneous do not I understand, he said? And agree with you?
- 9:46And to which class do unity and number belong? I do not know,
- 9:50he replied, Think a little, and you will see that what has preceded
- 9:56will supply the answer. For if simple unity could be adequately perceived by the
- 10:01side, or by any other sense, then as we were saying in the
- 10:05case of the finger, there would be nothing to attract towards being. But
- 10:11when there is some contradiction always present, and one is the reverse of one
- 10:16and involves the conception of plurality, then thought begins to be aroused within us,
- 10:22and the soul, perplexed and wanting to arrive at the decision, asks
- 10:26what is absolute unity? This is the way in which the study of the
- 10:31one has the power of drawing and converting the mind to the contemplation of true
- 10:37being. And surely, he said, this occurs notably in the case of
- 10:43one, for we see the same thing to be both one and infinite in
- 10:48multitude, Yes, I said, And this being true of one, must
- 10:54be equally true of all number. Certainly, And all arithmetic and calculation have
- 11:00to do with number. Yes, and they appear to lead the mind towards
- 11:05truth. Yes, in a very remarkable manner. Then this is knowledge of
- 11:11the kind for which we are seeking. Having a double use military and philosophical.
- 11:16For the men of war must learn the art of number, or he
- 11:20will not know how to array his troops. And the philosopher also because he
- 11:24has to rise out of the sea of change and lay hold of true being,
- 11:30And therefore he must be an arithmetician, that is true. And our
- 11:35guardian is both warrior and philosopher. Certainly, then this is a kind of
- 11:41knowledge which legislation may fitly prescribe. And we must endeavor to persuade those who
- 11:46are to be the principal man of our state to go and learn arithmetic,
- 11:52not as amateurs, but they must carry on the study until they see the
- 11:56nature of numbers with the mind only, nor again like merchants or retail traders
- 12:01with a view to buying or selling, but for the sake of their military
- 12:05use and of the soul herself, and because this will be the easiest way
- 12:11for her to pass from becoming to truth and being. That is excellent,
- 12:16he said, yes, I said, And now having spoken of it,
- 12:22I must add how charming the science is, and in how many ways it
- 12:26conduces to our desired end, if pursued in the spirit of a philosopher and
- 12:31not of a shopkeeper, How do you mean? I mean, as I
- 12:35was saying that arithmetic has a very great and elevating effect, compelling the soul
- 12:41to reason about abstract number and rebelling against the introduction of visible or tangible objects
- 12:48into the argument. You know how steadily the masters of the art repel and
- 12:54ridicule any one who attempts to divide absolute unity. When he is calculating any
- 12:58few, they multiply, taking care that one shall continue one and not become
- 13:05lost in fractions. That is very true. Now, suppose a person were
- 13:11to say to them, oh, my friends, what are these wonderful numbers
- 13:16about which you are reasoning, in which, as you say, there is
- 13:20a unity such as you demand, and each unit is equal, invariable,
- 13:24and the visible. What would they answer? They would answer, as I
- 13:28should conceive that they were speaking of those numbers which can only be realized in
- 13:33thought. Then you see that this knowledge may be truly called necessary, necessitating,
- 13:39as it clearly does the use of the pure intelligence in the attainment of
- 13:43pure truth. Yes, that is a marked characteristic of it. And have
- 13:50you further observed that those who have a natural talent for calculation are generally quick
- 13:56at every other kind of knowledge, and even the dull, if they have
- 14:00had an arithmetical training, although they may derive no other advantage from it,
- 14:05always become much quicker than they would otherwise have been. Very true, he
- 14:09said, And indeed it will not easily find a more difficult study, and
- 14:15not many as difficult you will not. And for all these reasons, arithmetic
- 14:22is a kind of knowledge in which the best natures should be trained, and
- 14:24which must not be given up. I agree, let this then be made
- 14:31one of our subjects of education. End of Book seven, Part two,