Latest / Crosswalk Talk: Celebrity Christian Interviews / Lee Strobel on The Story of Everything and Evidence for God

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Lee Strobel on The Story of Everything and Evidence for God · Crosswalk Talk: Celebrity Christian Interviews

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  Speaker 1: Life Audio.
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  Speaker 2: Hey Lee, thanks for joining me.
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  Speaker 1: Michael. Great to be with you as always.
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  Speaker 2: Author and Christian apologist Lee Stroubble, executive producer of the
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  Speaker 2: new documentary movie The Story of Everything. It examines the
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  Speaker 2: scientific evidence for a desire behind the universe. The Story
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  Speaker 2: of Everything dot film as the website. Lee, Unlike so
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  Speaker 2: many projects I interview you about, you're not actually in
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  Speaker 2: this movie, but as you are an executive producer, you're
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  Speaker 2: behind it. You're promoting it right, You're passionate about it.
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  Speaker 2: Why did you want to partner with this film?
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  Speaker 1: Well, you know, most of the scholars who are in
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  Speaker 1: the film are people who I've dealt with over the years,
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  Speaker 1: interviewed from my books A Case for a Creator or
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  Speaker 1: other books that I've done. So I know all these
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  Speaker 1: folks and really believe in their mission, which is to
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  Speaker 1: help people understand that there is no gulf between science
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  Speaker 1: and faith. But science, when done right, points powerfully and
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  Speaker 1: persuasively towards the existence of a God who matches a
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  Speaker 1: description the God of the Bible. So I'm totally on
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  Speaker 1: board with him and glad to be part of the project.
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  Speaker 2: Now you say that it points to the existence of God,
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  Speaker 2: I'm always curious with what language we use here because
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  Speaker 2: some people are you know, what asked, can science prove
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  Speaker 2: the existence of God? You're saying it points to it?
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  Speaker 2: I guess is that the wording we're going to use.
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  Speaker 1: You know, being trained in law, the word proof is
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  Speaker 1: always something that you kind of parse. You know, what
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  Speaker 1: do you mean by proof? Proof? Beyond a reasonable doubt,
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  Speaker 1: clear and convincing proof? You know, there's different levels of proof.
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  Speaker 1: So personally, do I think that the evidence of science
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  Speaker 1: proves that there is a God? Yes? I think it does.
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  Speaker 1: But I think the level of proof is probably clear
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  Speaker 1: and compelling as opposed to beyond a reasonable doubt. But
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  Speaker 1: that's sufficient, I think to put our trust in the conclusion.
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  Speaker 2: This is a beautiful film. There's no narrator. The experts
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  Speaker 2: are the only individuals who talk. It's an a by
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  Speaker 2: the way, I should say, it's an adaptation of Stephen
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  Speaker 2: Meyer's book, Return to the God Hypothesis. I believe that's
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  Speaker 2: riding with the book. It's engaging intellectually, it's substantive, it's accessible.
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  Speaker 2: You got to bring your thinking cap on. I think
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  Speaker 2: tell people that this is not one you're.
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  Speaker 1: Going to be able to follow if you're not big,
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  Speaker 1: it's true.
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  Speaker 2: How has this issue been impacted by the fact that
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  Speaker 2: we're living in cities now, we don't see the vastest
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  Speaker 2: of space like white people did long ago. You know,
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  Speaker 2: when King David was writing the Psalms, he was looking
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  Speaker 2: up with the skies at night. I'm just curious, in
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  Speaker 2: your mind, as a Christian apologist, how has this issue
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  Speaker 2: of whether there is a God? How is that impacted
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  Speaker 2: by the fact that so many people who are arguing
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  Speaker 2: against God don't even see the vastest of God at night?
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  Speaker 1: Yeah? You know. To me, though, we all go through
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  Speaker 1: some science education, right it's high school, it's college. We're
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  Speaker 1: exposed to science teaching, and often it is a position
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  Speaker 1: taken in those classes that is inconsistent with a biblical narrative.
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  Speaker 1: I remember one of the key steps in my journey
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  Speaker 1: to atheism was when I took science classes in high
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  Speaker 1: school and was told that the origin diversity of life
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  Speaker 1: is based on neo Darwinism and so there's no need
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  Speaker 1: for a creator. And that was a major step in
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  Speaker 1: my life toward atheism. That's why I hope that young
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  Speaker 1: people see this film. I would love to have churches
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  Speaker 1: encourage college age and high school age students to come
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  Speaker 1: and bring their spiritually curious and even skeptical friends, and boy,
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  Speaker 1: it'll lead to some great discussions, and I think it
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  Speaker 1: builds a case that is powerful and persuasive that gives
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  Speaker 1: young people a solid basis for their faith. Too many
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  Speaker 1: are walking away because they've not been exposed to the
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  Speaker 1: affirmative evidence that points toward a God who matches a
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  Speaker 1: description of the Bible.
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  Speaker 2: I guess we should say for those who are curious
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  Speaker 2: about the details of this film, this is not Christian
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  Speaker 2: apologetics like Lee Strobble is known for. In terms of
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  Speaker 2: a case for christ. It's more of I guess, natural theology.
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  Speaker 2: It's arguing for peace for creator from just the evidence
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  Speaker 2: of creation. I guess people can turn to your resources
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  Speaker 2: for the rest of that and to kind of bridge
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  Speaker 2: that gap.
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  Speaker 1: Sure you'll hear voices of skeptics in the film as well. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: that's true.
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  Speaker 2: That's true.
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  Speaker 1: Lee.
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  Speaker 2: When people reject the idea of a creator, do you
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  Speaker 2: find that the barrier is usually scientific? Is it philosophical
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  Speaker 2: or is it personal?
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  Speaker 1: I think often it's personal, and often people like I did,
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  Speaker 1: will use claims from science or history to try to
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  Speaker 1: rebuff a Christian who's trying to share Christ with them.
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  Speaker 1: But deep down there's something else going on, and I
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  Speaker 1: think there's often psychological issues. I think if there was
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  Speaker 1: with me, father issues are a major you know, you
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  Speaker 1: look at two trends in America, number one, fatherless families
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  Speaker 1: and number two increase in belief in atheism or skepticism
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  Speaker 1: toward God. I think those are connected, so did C. S. Lewis.
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  Speaker 1: You know, when you have a father who is a
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  Speaker 1: abandon you or hurt you or disappointed you in some way,
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  Speaker 1: you don't want to know heavenly father, and it creates
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  Speaker 1: a barrier, It creates a disincentive to find your heavenly father,
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  Speaker 1: and you find all kinds of reasons to reject Christianity.
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  Speaker 1: It may not be based on the evidence, but you
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  Speaker 1: use them to kind of fend off the faith when
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  Speaker 1: really there's psychologicals. And that's just one here. In fact,
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  Speaker 1: studies have been done into the major atheist of history,
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  Speaker 1: Camu Sart, Nietzsche, Freud, Voltaire, Wells for your back, all
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  Speaker 1: of them, and every single one of them had a
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  Speaker 1: father who died when they were young, divorced their mother
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  Speaker 1: when they were young or with whom they had a
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  Speaker 1: very difficulty or bad relationship. And the implication is, you know,
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  Speaker 1: if your earthly father's hurt, you don't want to you
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  Speaker 1: don't want to pursue a heavenly father. So I think
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  Speaker 1: there are all kinds of reasons why people, according to
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  Speaker 1: the Book of Romans, suppress the evidence. You know, Romans one,
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  Speaker 1: verse twenty says, the evidence from what we see. You know,
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  Speaker 1: you talked about the Michael that you know, looking up
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  Speaker 1: at the sky at night. If you're in a desert
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  Speaker 1: or somewhere and you see this array of stars, it's over.
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  Speaker 1: Roman's one twenty says, we're without excuse. There's plenty of
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  Speaker 1: evidence for the existence of a creator.
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  Speaker 2: Lee, what is your go to argument for arguing the
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  Speaker 2: existence of God? Not Jesus. But if you're sitting on
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  Speaker 2: a plane, whatever, you have two minutes, where do you
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  Speaker 2: go to argue the existence of God?
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  Speaker 1: I think you get a lot out of the cosmological
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  Speaker 1: argument for God. In other words, where do the universe
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  Speaker 1: come from? And it's a very simple argument. Whatever begins
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  Speaker 1: to exist has a cause behind it. All scientists now
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  Speaker 1: agree the universe began to exist at some point in
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  Speaker 1: the past. Therefore there must be a cause behind it.
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  Speaker 1: And now you just look racually. What kind of a
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  Speaker 1: cause can bring a university of existence. He must be
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  Speaker 1: transcendent or separate from creation. He must be spirit because
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  Speaker 1: he existed before the physical world. He must be eternal
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  Speaker 1: or timeless because he existed before physical time came in
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  Speaker 1: to be. He must be powerful given the immensity of
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  Speaker 1: the creation event. Must be smart given the precision of
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  Speaker 1: the creation event. Must be personal because he had to
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  Speaker 1: make the decision to create. Must be creative because my goodness,
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  Speaker 1: just look at the universe. He must be loving because
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  Speaker 1: he's so carefully crafted a habitat for us to flourish in.
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  Speaker 1: And then the scientific principle Vocam's razor says it would
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  Speaker 1: be just one creator. So just from that one argument,
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  Speaker 1: it rules out all polytheistic religions that believe in many gods.
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  Speaker 1: It rules out all pantheistic religions who say that everything
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  Speaker 1: is God, and it also contradicts Eastern philosophy that says
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  Speaker 1: that the universe is cyclical. So just that one argument
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  Speaker 1: gets you a long way toward the existence of a
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  Speaker 1: creator who again matches the description of the god of
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  Speaker 1: the Bible.
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  Speaker 2: Let me ask you a couple questions as we close here.
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  Speaker 2: What do you think the film says to someone who
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  Speaker 2: wants to believe in God but worries there is not
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  Speaker 2: enough evidence to do so Intellectually?
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  Speaker 1: I hope for them it's a challenge to say, wait
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  Speaker 1: a minute, here, I have these brilliant people with PhD
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  Speaker 1: from Cambridge, and you know that's where where Steven Meier
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  Speaker 1: the movies based on his book, is a PhD from
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  Speaker 1: Cambridge on Origin of Life. I mean, we've got brilliant scientists,
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  Speaker 1: James Toward, one of the top chemists in the world.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, these are brilliant people and they believe, they
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  Speaker 1: believe the evidence points toward the existenvice of a supernatural creator.
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  Speaker 1: Now does that make it true? No, but it challenges
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  Speaker 1: us to say, maybe I should check it out, maybe
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  Speaker 1: I should investigate it, maybe I should go further. I
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  Speaker 1: wrote a book called Is God Real that deals with
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  Speaker 1: a lot of the themes of this movie that could
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  Speaker 1: go help people go deeper. But I'm hoping it becomes
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  Speaker 1: an instigator for especially young people to pursue further information,
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  Speaker 1: to be so captivated by the film that they go, man,
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  Speaker 1: I need to delve into this further, and you know
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  Speaker 1: that's good for Christianity.
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  Speaker 2: It's easy to go to college lee and get under
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  Speaker 2: it and sit in a classroom under someone who is,
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  Speaker 2: you know, intellectually smarter than you, academically sure, and they're
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  Speaker 2: saying things about God that you were you either never
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  Speaker 2: heard or weren't listening when you were told, I guess,
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  Speaker 2: and it's easy to doubt God. And I think that's
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  Speaker 2: what this film does. It shows you that there are
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  Speaker 2: smart people just as smart as the professor's saying, and
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  Speaker 2: had their classroom that believe there is a God behind
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  Speaker 2: the you know, so, I think that's pretty powerful.
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  Speaker 1: And we don't ask people who accept it on faith.
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  Speaker 1: We accept people to investigate the evidence, check it out.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, what you We always assume that people know
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  Speaker 2: your story. Lead briefly tell people your story for those
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  Speaker 2: who are just joining us and don't realize that you
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  Speaker 2: once were a skeptic and an atheist as well.
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  Speaker 1: That's right. I was trained to journalism. I went to
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  Speaker 1: Yale Law School, studied law, became legal editor of the
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  Speaker 1: Chicago Tributne and investigative reporter, and was a was an atheist.
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  Speaker 1: Tell my wife, who was an agnostic became a Christian,
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  Speaker 1: and I thought, how do I liberate her from this
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  Speaker 1: cult that she's gotten involved in. And that was led
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  Speaker 1: to my investigation of Christianity, the Resurrection of Jesus as
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  Speaker 1: well as the scientific evidence, until on November the eighth
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  Speaker 1: of nineteen eighty one, I realized, in light of the
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  Speaker 1: avalanche of evidence, a point so powerfully toward the truth
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  Speaker 1: of Christianity. You were to take more faith and maintain
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  Speaker 1: my atheism that have become a Christian. And that's when
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  Speaker 1: I met my need to Jesus received Christ in my life,
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  Speaker 1: my future, my morality, my character, my parenting, my marriage
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  Speaker 1: all transformed and now Leslie and I've been married fifty
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  Speaker 1: four years.
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  Speaker 2: Briefly, tell me how you want this to impact Christians.
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  Speaker 2: We talked about the fastics. How do you want it
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  Speaker 2: to be impact to Christians who watched this movie.
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  Speaker 1: Two things, deep in their faith, which is important in
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  Speaker 1: these days when you see quote unquote deconstruction going on.
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  Speaker 1: So deepen the convictions that their faith is well placed.
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  Speaker 1: But secondly, give them the confidence and the courage and
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  Speaker 1: the materials and the resources to reach out to a
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  Speaker 1: spiritually curious friend. I hope Christians invite someone who's no
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  Speaker 1: not a Christian to join him, to come to this movie.
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  Speaker 1: It's not a threatening thing. It's like the story of
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  Speaker 1: everything that's kind of interesting. And then just go to
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  Speaker 1: coffee afterwards and chat about it. And you don't have
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  Speaker 1: to be a super apologist to do it. You have
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  Speaker 1: to be the Bible answer man. Just talk about how
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  Speaker 1: God influenced your life and see if this begins a
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  Speaker 1: journey for that person towards Jesus at least.
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  Speaker 2: Jouble dot commis the website. Tell us about your latest release.
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  Speaker 2: I believe you had a You had a movie that
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  Speaker 2: came out this year, The Case for.
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  Speaker 1: A Miracles, So brief, that's right about that. Yeah, Case
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  Speaker 1: of Miracles movie will be streaming soon, don't know where yet.
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  Speaker 1: And my new book is Seeing the Supernatural, which looks
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  Speaker 1: at what is the evidence that there is something beyond
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  Speaker 1: what we can see in touch and put in a
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  Speaker 1: test too. That's been a fascinating investigation. It's been a
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  Speaker 1: couple of years doing that and oh my goodness, opened
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  Speaker 1: my eyes to the relevance of the supernatural realm to
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  Speaker 1: everyday Christianity.
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  Speaker 2: If you like today's episode, please subscribe to leave a
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  Speaker 2: five star review. That's how we help more people just
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  Speaker 2: like you find the show. A big thanks to the
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  Speaker 2: team at life Audio for their partnership with us on
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  Speaker 2: See you next time.