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Legally Brunette: The Murder of Jennifer Dulos · Legally Brunette

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Hi, guys, Welcome to a new episode of Legally Brunettes.
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: I will be your host Emily Simpson with my co
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: host Shane Shane. Okay, first of all, before we get
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: into the case we're going to talk about today, which
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: is the Jennifer Dulo's case, we have to talk about
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: Kim Kardashian not passing the bar exam. I feel like
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: it was it just happened. She made a statement. So
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: Kim Kardashian has revealed the result of her recent bar
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: exam as the reality TV star continues to pursue a
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: career in law. First of all, I have to say,
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: let me ask you your opinion, because you did take
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: the bar exam multiple times under the scrutiny, and first
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: of all, you had to take it up this same scrutiny,
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: not the same scrutiny, A low level of scrutiny. It
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: was the Bravo TV community scrutiny. She's taking it. And
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: it's a how many followers does she have on Instagram?
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: Like three hundred million or something, right, I mean that's
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: a lot of eyes on her. So what do you think, like,
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: what is that? What do you think to go to
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: have to take something at that big and then the
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: whole world knows about it. You have no opinion, I
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: don't know.
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it sucks for her, okay, but but you got
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: to think about it. She's worth nearly two billion dollars.
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: She's got a skims company, which is huge. I'm sure
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: that's very time consuming. As much as she wanted wanted
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: to be all the public appearances. How many kids does
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: she have? I think for yeah, and then she has
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: to deal with Kanye right, so she's got a lot
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: and a reality show. Oh and she's she's playing a
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: bad actress on it the Lawyer movie you watch or
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: show you watch? Yes, also, so she's got a lot
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: going on. It's amazing that she even wants to do this.
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: I don't know why she wants to do this.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: You know, I don't either, But but like you said,
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: she's worth two billion dollars. But you have to give
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: her credit for wanting to do it and saying that
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: she's going to do it again. I know it takes
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: a lot, I know, of guts to publicly put yourself
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: out there.
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: To say comments of people making Joe set her expense
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: or criticizing her, But it didn't stop her so you know,
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: good for her.
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: So Kim wrote via her Instagram stories on Saturday, November eighth, Well,
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: I'm not a lawyer yet. I just play a very
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: well dressed one on TV. Six years into this law
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: journey and I'm still all in until I pass the bar.
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: No shortcuts, no giving up, just more studying and even
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: more determination. Thank you to everyone who has supported and
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: encouraged me along the way. Falling short isn't a failure,
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: it's fuel. I was so close to passing the exam
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: that only motivates me even more. Let's go. Do you
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: think she was close?
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: Who knows? The scores don't come out that early. She
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: posted it before scores came out.
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: When did the scores come out?
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: I don't think they come out to like Monday or
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: something like that, like the week after, or they get
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: mailed to you, I think, Or I don't know, but
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: I don't remember the scores coming out. It's just pass
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: or fail. On the friday that you check the results,
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: you punch in your number. It either says you're there
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: or says your name cannot be found. It doesn't give
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: you results. So I don't know how she knew that.
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: Unless she had some she's like special insider.
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: She cheated, but apparently not good enough. Maybe.
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: No, there was no way you can't cheat on the
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: can of bar exam. There's no way possible.
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: But the only person that took a private jet to
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: take the California.
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: Bar or a private helicopter, she just landed on a
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: helipad and then went in the back door.
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: I mean they obviously she took the baby bar too.
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: She had to take that a couple of times and
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: she didn't stop. Yeah, so the baby bar is when
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: you go to a non licensed school or what she did,
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: which was some mentoring program to take the baby bar
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: a year into it as a couple of subjects, and
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: she took that a couple of times and she passed it.
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: So she didn't quit on that one. Yeah, and I
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: kind of thought she would have.
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: Let's just talk for a second about her new HULO show.
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: It's called all Hulu. I said, who said Hulo, not
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: Hulo Hulu Hulu show it's called All's Fair. I'm sure
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: the term all All's fair is taken from the what
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: is the line All's fair? In love and war?
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: Right? So yes?
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: I started watching it and it was so bad and
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: so campy. But I do have to admit that not
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: only I watched the whole thing, there were three episodes
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: that were released, and I watched all three. I think
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: I stayed up till three o'clock in the morning watching
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: all three episodes. So the acting, her acting, it's just there.
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: There's no acting, it's just her, Like how she is
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: in a reality show is just basically like how she
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: is on this scripted television show. Also, her outfits. There
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: is an outfit where she actually has a thong coming
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: out the back of her suit and you can see
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: the thong, and I'm like, what lawyer dresses like that?
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: It reminds me of Sex in the City. The second
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: movie where I feel like they just they threw out
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: the script. They were like, they were like, we don't
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: need content or good or good writing. We just will
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: wear fabulous outfits and go to the Middle East. And
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: I feel like that's kind of what they did with
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: All's Fair. They were like, all we need is Kim
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: Kardashi and some fabulous outfits and a ridiculous private jet
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: that looks like the inside of a of a Vegas hotel,
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: and that's all we need to make good TV.
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: And so and and you and here you.
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: Are and I watch it. I did all right.
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: Lastly, Yeah, I'm kind of secretly glad she didn't pass
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: because if she passed, everyone would be like.
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: What making fun of you? Yeah, they'd be like, Shane,
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: Shane couldn't pass it. But Kim Kardashian pass exactly.
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you, Kim.
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: Yes, Shane feels better because of that. Well, we wish
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: Kim Kardashian luck. I hope she does eventually pass it.
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: I do, yeah, and then I'll be submitting my job application.
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: You're gonna work for her? What are you gonna do?
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: Whatever she wants?
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: Oh my goodness. Okay, let's move on to the Jennifer
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: Doulos case. Jennifer. First of all, let me say I
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: have watched multiple things on this case. I think there's
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: something on Hulu. There's also been twenty twenties datelines, et cetera.
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: I don't know what it is, but this is one
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: of those cases. I watch a lot of true crime,
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: but I will tell you this is one of those
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: cases that just always stuck in my mind. I would
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: just always think of it. I kind of I don't
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: know why. Jennifer Dulos is just always It just always
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: stayed with it.
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: So you've you've known about this case for a while.
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I have. I've known about it for a while.
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: I've watched things on it. I've watched a couple different
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: documentary type of shows on it, and I don't know,
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: it just always stayed with me. So I'm I'm so,
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: let's go into it.
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: So.
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: Jennifer Farbar Dulos was a fifty year old mother of
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: five from New Canaan, Connecticut. She vanished on May twenty fourth,
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: in twenty nineteen after dropping her children off at school.
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: Jennifer was reported missing after she failed to show up
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: to several appointments and no one hadn't been able to
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: reach her for about ten hours. When officers checked Jennifer's home,
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: they found what appeared to be bloodstains on the floor
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: in the garage and on a vehicle parked inside. Police
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: would later find Jennifer's SUV located three miles away, but
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: there was no sign of her. During the investigation, police
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: obtained surveillance footage that showed her a strange husband photos Dulos,
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: who is Greek, and his mistress, Michelle Trecanis in and
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: around Hartford, Connecticut. The night of Jennifer's disappearance, they made
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: multiple stops dumping garbage bags into various bins throughout the city.
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: Police recovered these bags and found bloody clothing, cleaning supplies,
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: and sponges containing Jennifer's DNA. Her disappearance quickly became one
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: of the most high profile criminal cases in Connecticut, centering
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: around a bitter divorce and a bitter custody battle with
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: the children. Maybe it stuck with me because I think
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: when you start digging into the case and you watch it,
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: it shows, you know, all this aerial footage of her
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: home and his home, and he was a builder or developer,
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: and these are these huge, multi million dollar, beautiful homes
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: in this East Coast area of the United States. She's like.
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: Crime, right, I mean, like who beautiful.
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: I'm talking like ten thousand square foot fifteen thousand square
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: foot homes on like sprawling land with five children. And
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: she's very attractive, and he's very attractive, and they're educated
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: and in their ages. Well she's fifty when she disappeared,
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: Oh she was.
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: How old were their children? Do you know? I'm the
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: two daughters, right, I think.
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: Well, there's five kids altogether five. Okay, that's all right,
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: let's just talk about a little bit about who Jennifer
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: Doulos is. And May of twenty twenty five, a book
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: titled Murder in the Dollhouse The Jennifer Dulos Story was
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: written by Richard Cohen, a prolific journalist and author of
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: fourteen books. Cohen sketches the origin story of Jennifer Farber Dulos,
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: who is the niece of Liz Claiborne, an American fashion
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: designer and businesswoman, and the beloved daughter of a wealthy financier.
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: Before becoming a mother of five, Jennifer worked as a
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: playwright in New York City. Cohen pointed to her dream
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: of creating a life sized dollhouse for the inspiration behind
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: the title of his book. She had obsession with dollhouses
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: when she was a little girl, Cohen said, she had
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: this idea of creating a real dollhouse and building this
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: fantasy for real. In fact, that decor of her first
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: adult apartment had included an empty baby crib, so when
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: she was still unattached at thirty five, she began to panic.
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: At the time of her disappearance, Jennifer believed in curating
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: a dream domestic life, a dream that Colin believes she
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: was struggling with giving up. I think that's another reason
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: why she ended up in this bad marriage. I think
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: she had this idyllic idea of what she wanted her
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: life to be. And he was this good looking guy,
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: and he was Greek, and he was this builder and developer,
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: and they built this big, huge, beautiful home. And she
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: had this fantasy with dollhouses and creating this perfect image.
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: And I think in the back of her mind she
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: probably knew that.
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: This was a What was the falling out of the
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: marriage for.
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: Well, I think he was controlling and violent throughout the marriage,
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: and then I think she just continued to ignore or
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: hope that he changed or you.
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: Know, so was this It was just budding heads And
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: I mean it wasn't like there was an affair or
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: something shady or why don't he wasn't like being lost or.
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: Well he kept borrowing money from her parents. She had
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: wealthy parents. I believe her dad was a bank owned
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: a bank.
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: Was he was he No, he was Greek.
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: I believe he got that.
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: I'm saying.
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: I believe he was an emigrant that came to the
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: United States, and that he married her. He married into
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: a wealthy family, and I think he had a lot
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: of ambition and he wanted to make a lot of money.
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: I believe he borrowed a lot of money from her
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: father or her family.
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: But was he his business like viable like he was no.
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: From what I understood in these and a lot of
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: these documentaries, I watched that he was losing money. He
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: was a developer and he kept building these. He played
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: the role of a big developer, but he kept having
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: to borrow money from her family to pay debts, and
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: I think he was always in debt, and I don't
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: know if he was actually making money. She was the
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: one though, Oh.
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: So then yeah, okay, So then you have a divorce here,
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: and then she's going to still be okay financially, right
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: at least based on what you just said. Then he's
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: going to be screwed and he's probably gonna lose his
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: job in business.
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: So two thousand and three to two two thousand and four,
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: Jennifer Farber and Photos Dulos relationship begins. So in the
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: December of two thousand and three, Jennifer runs into photos Dulos,
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: who is currently married at an Aspen Airport. Jennifer and
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: Photos had attended Brown at the same time, but never
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: had a relationship. Photos emails Jennifer tests, are you there,
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: that's very romantic? M hm. In March of two thousand
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: and four, photos Dulos files for divorce from his first wife.
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: He officially signs the divorce papers in July of four,
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: and then in August of four, less than one month later,
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: Photos Dulos marries Jennifer Farber and they end up having
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: five children together, two sets of twins and one son.
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: Then we get to twenty seventeen to twenty eighteen. This
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: is the marital breakdown. This is when it really starts
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: to you know, you.
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: Always want to go south. The first spouse. Yeah, they're like, dang,
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: I escape that one. I'm glad that I didn't have
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: kids with that guy. I'd be dead now, right.
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: So in June of twenty seventeen, Jennifer Farber Dulos files
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: for divorce from her been, citing fear for her safety.
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: She accuses him of controlling behavior, threats, and having an
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: affair with Michelle Trecanus, one of his employees at his company,
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: which was called Four Group. Incorporated in twenty seventeen to
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: twenty nineteen, so this is a two year A bitter
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: custody battle unfolds. Jennifer has granted temporary sole custody of
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: their five children, with photos getting limited to supervise visitation.
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: Court records show Jennifer repeatedly expressed fear that photos would
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: harm her. So clearly he's exhibiting. I mean that he's
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: not only controlling, but he's viola as well. I think
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: in the documentary they are. In some of the things
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: that I watch, they talk about I believe he like
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: drove a truck at her really like fast, like he
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: was going to hit her. He like strangle or grabbed
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: her by her neck. I think there was like some stalking,
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: refollowder and allegations like that. And they have five children,
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: so clearly in regards to money and child support, he
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: wants the kids as much as possible. Correct.
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, yeah, And probably because he's worried, fear full
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: for his business. If her parents, if his in laws
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: are actually helping on the business side, they might pull
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: from that. I was just looking up she was fifty seven.
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: Well, no, she'd be fifty seven now. She was fifty
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: she was fifty in twenty nineteen. Met okay, so tell
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: me the ages of the kids when she around the
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: time that she has the.
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: Time of her disappearance, which we know it was the death.
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: She had five kids, he said, two sets of twins
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: and at Singleton and all between the ages of eight
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: and thirteen. So they lost their mother at the age
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: of between eight and thirteen and then their father going
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: to jail.
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: So in twenty seventeen to twenty nineteen we were talked
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: about a bitter custody battle unfolds, and the custody battle
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: obviously he wants as much custody as possible because he
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: wants her to pay child sport. I would assume she's
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: the one that's financially secure. She's the one that has
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: the wealthy parent. She's the one you know that's going
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: to be fine.
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: He's got the upper hand in that area of finance
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: and playment.
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: But she's clearly been able to prove to a court
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: that he is violent because he has supervised visitations, which
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: I'm sure has just pushed him to Oh, I mean.
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: I mean, he probably well deserved, but man, that has
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: got to be really a blow to the ego.
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: Right, So I would say, as a man and having
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: five children and wanting as much custody as possible because
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: you want as much child support as possible, or he
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: doesn't and then to have to have supervised visits, or.
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: Just he's he's a madman and he does rather killer
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: than deal with anything at all, because clearly when they
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: were married he tried to run her over with a
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: truck or whatever.
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: So Thursday May twenty third, twenty nineteen, Jennifer attends a
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: school event with her children in New Canaan. She exchanges
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: texts and emails with friends that evening and everything seems
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: normal and she's making plans for the weekend. On Friday,
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: May twenty fourth, tw nineteen, this is the last day
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: that Jennifer's ever seen alive. Eight am Jennifer drops her
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: children off at New Canaan Country School. At eight oh
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: five am, Jennifer returns to her rented home at sixty
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: nine Wells Lane. At ten twenty five am, Jennifer misses
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: her children's orthodontia's appointments, which is uncharacteristic for her. You know,
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: she has a nanny that takes care of the kids
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: as well, and the nanny was also very frightened of
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: the potus. Do you have photus?
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: Yes?
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: And then nanny is the one who repeatedly tries to
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: get a hold of her, and she's not answering her phone,
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: which she said has never ever happened, that she's never
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: not been able to get a hold of her. And
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: also she doesn't show up at the Orthodonna's appointment to
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: meet her with the children. Then the nanny knows immediately
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: that she.
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: Had an appointment that day, the day of her disappearance.
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I just said that, Yeah, yeah, it was the
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: same day. It was the same day she had, well
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: it was the children had Ordonna's appointment.
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but she dropped him off at school in the morning.
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: She dropped him off at school in the morning, and
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: then the nanny had them later in the day, and
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: then the nanny was taking them to an orthodonots But
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: where she was meeting up with.
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: The nanny after school? Okay, confused, I thought was during school.
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: So the nanny gets worried and calls the police to
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: report Jennifer missing. This is around eleven AM. At seven pm,
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: police locate Jennifer's black Chevy Suburban abandoned on Lapham Road
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: near Waveney Park. Inside her home, detectives find blood splatter
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: and evidence of an attempted cleanup, later confirmed as Jennifer's blood.
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: So when they go back and they search her house,
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: I remember that the nanny said that she had just
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: she remembered that she had just opened a brand new
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: role of like those paper towels from Costco where you.
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: Have multiple rolls of multi pack.
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: Multi pack, right, and she had put them in the cabinet.
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: And then later that day when the police were searching,
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: there was only like two rolls left, which meant he,
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: what are there like twelve rolls in there or something?
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't, oh yeah, So that means eight six
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: were missing, right.
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: So someone had gone through multiple rolls of paper towels
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: within that short period of time. So that evening surveillance
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: cameras capture photos Dulos and his girlfriend Michelle trecanis driving
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: a Ford Raptor pickup truck through Hertford. They are seen
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: making over thirty stops, thirty stops, thirty.
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: Stops at like different locations each time.
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, disposing of garbage bags along Albany Avenue.
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: Almost dumber because now there's thirty locations where that DNA
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: is spread around, right, And I don't know thirty opportunities
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: to have you on camera or witnesses.
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: I don't understand how you wouldn't think that there would
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: be some type of surveillance camera that would pick that up.
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: This is in twenty nineteen, it's not like we're talking
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: about the eighties or nineties before, you know. I mean,
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: we're talking.
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: Digital footprint everywhere, right.
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: And he has a cell phone, which is like, you know,
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: putting him in all these da.
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: I always say, and it's hard to have him, but
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: people wouldn't commit crimes and think they were going to
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: get away with it. So he didn't kill her and
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: then not know how to get and then worry he
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: wasn't going to get away with it. He knew he
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: planned this, Right, we're going to get into it, but
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: he planned it.
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: Wasn't like it was the moment, right, It wasn't like
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: they got in a fight.
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: So he plans it, And if he planned it, that
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: means he thought this plan was full proof.
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: That's when you're a narcissist.
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: Oh well, clearly, what do you want to say? He's
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: a killer? And you're yeah, that's we got a bigger problem.
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: He's a murderer.
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: You're saying, killer goes first. At the end.
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: Of the day, he killed someone, so who cares what
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: the diagnosis.
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: But I'm saying the part of where you you just
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: honestly believe that you're selling.
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: Don't like the word narcissist.
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: I know what I'm saying.
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: You'll call me a narcissist, and then you call this
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: murder narcissist. So I'm in the same category as potus.
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: No, you're not. I'm saying he's a narcissist killer, but
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: I'm saying the reason that he thinks he's going to
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: get away with it is because he finds himself to
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: be so much more legent and better than everyone else,
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: which is a trade of narcissism. That that's what leads
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: them to do it, because he doesn't he can't fathom
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: the idea that he would get caught.
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: Right That, okay, was a long way of saying what
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: I just said.
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: Okay. So June through December of twenty nineteen, arrests and
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: evidence start building. So in June first of twenty nineteen,
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: Photus Dulos and Michelle Trecanas are arrested and charged with
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: tampering with evidence and hindering prosecution. Both were held on
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: a five hundred thousand dollars bond. The arrest came after
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: investigators descended onto two locations connected to photos and his company.
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: The four Group.
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: According to the arrests warrant, there were several blood saints
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: found on the garage floor in Jennifer's home, and that
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: blood was found in Potus's garage when officials looked as well.
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: The warrant had said that Photus's phone had pinged him
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: traveling back and forth between two properties he owns in
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: Farmington throughout the day on May twenty fourth. You know, also,
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: I believe what happened. I think he had a very
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: elaborate plan. He ended up like riding a bicycle.
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: No, no, no, he well, partly true. Yeah, he borrowed a
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: truck right from.
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: One employee, sang right from an employee.
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: And he drove it there at her house. So, because
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: that was when I was reading up on this, I realized, like,
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: why is he doing that? But then she's not living,
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: they're not living together day right, he lives, So he
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: parked his car in front of her house, she'd know,
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: and he's violent and whatever. So he borrowed a truck,
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: parked wait for her, waited for her. She comes, he
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: does whatever, you'll discuss it. Then when he goes, and
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: then he uses her vehicle to to place what three
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: miles away from the house or whatever, as a distraction.
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: Then he there's cameras of her car being driven at
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: ten twenty five am, but she's not driving it. He is.
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: Then there's I think there's cameras of him riding a
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: bicycle back to the house and getting in the employees
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: truck and leaving.
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: Where did he park the employee's truck though, somewhere.
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: Hidden, like across the street or something. That didn't say,
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: but the idea was it was an unrecognizable truck. So
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: then when she came home from taking kids to school,
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: he knew he knew the kids' schedule, right, so he
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: knew when she was going to be home. So she
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: comes home.
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: And he's hiding in the garage. Yeah, and then waiting
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: he's lying in wait.
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, exactly right. Yeah, he's a psycho, oh sorry, narcissist.
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: And psycho yeah, and murder yeah. So June eleven, twenty nineteen,
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: Photus and traconas that's a girlfriend. Are released on bond
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: in September of twenty nineteen.
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: Six million dollars bond. By the way, So I don't
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: know where.
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: He got that money, probably because he has properties. I
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: don't know if he put it up for collateral or something. Yes,
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: Photos is taken into custody once more, and the arrest warrant.
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: State Police said that Treconis admitted back on June second
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: that she could not account for potus whereabouts on the
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: morning Jennifer went missing. The warrant also stated that Photos
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: and Traconas were wrote alibi scripts detailing where they were,
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: but Treconis reportedly later stated the details were false. At
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: the time, police also believed that Photos had driven Jennifer's
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: suburban with her body inside, along with items to help
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: clean up the evidence. Then we get to January of
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty. Photos Dulos is charged with felony murder, kidnapping,
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: and murder. He was held on a six million dollar bond.
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: That's what you were talking about. It was held on
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: a six million dollar bond the second time he gets arrested.
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: Okay, it's a second time. Sorry, So I just find
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: that always funny. It's like innocent before proven guilty, but
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: you probably did it, So six million dollars because it's
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: going to run away.
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: Well, the first time he gets arrested, he's charged with
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: tampering with evidence.
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: Because it was just the hindering the relocations he had
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: been in put moving the car, parking it far away,
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: say there's no body using up paper towels.
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: Yes, using a lot of paper towels to clean up
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: a crime scene. So the first time he's arrested, it's
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: only with tampering with evidence and hindering prosecution. That's why
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: it's a six hundred thousand dollars bond, and he gets
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: on bond easily, and Traconis does too.
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: The girlfriend, she was in the car when they were
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: running around.
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: And that's the problem with not being able to locate
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: a body, which is what we talked about earlier in
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: the Crystal Rogers case, Like her body's never been discovered.
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: No either, So there's no body, but there was enough.
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: Blood my understanding was enough blood that the expert testimony
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: saying it was likely death. Right.
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: So then later when he gets arrested for the second time,
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: when he gets arrested because now they have enough evidence, right,
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: they've been building a case. They've been they've been interviewing
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: Traconas and they're getting you know, her statements which contradictory,
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: conflicting statements, right, And they're pulling up his his forensics
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: on his phone, and they have all the surveillance of
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: him and the experts with the blood saying that she's
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: likely to do.
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: So how do you get involved with she was an
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: employee of his? Yeah, I mean it's like, Hey, my
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: wife's leaving me because she's accusing me of beating her
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: up and driving her over with the truck, and you
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: want to murder her with me? Yeah? Okay, No, No.
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: It's like I'll do the actual murder. I just need
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: you to help me dispose of everything.
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I get passengers so we can get in the
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: carpool lane. Please these thirty I got thirty places to go.
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: You know, I don't understand the kind of woman that
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: is so in love with someone or so in It's
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: not love, it has to be infatuation. Right. He's a
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: good looking guy. I don't Yeah, I mean he's Yeah,
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: he's a good looking guy. But that's not enough for
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: me to commit what is I mean? It would have
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: to be more than just a good.
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: Looking so there so there is a number.
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: There might be so when he's arrested the second time
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: for felony murder, kidnapping, and murder, he is held on
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: a six million dollar bond. Michelle Traconis was arrested in
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: charge with conspiracy to commit murder. Kent Mawinny this is
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: his attorney, So Kent Mwenney got it.
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: I gotta look this guy up.
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: You're yeah, Kent Mawenny is photos Doulos's attorney. It's not
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: I don't think it's his defense attorney.
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: He's last name Mwennie.
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: It's m A w h I n n e y.
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: He's not his defense attorney. He's just like his attorney.
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: I don't know if in real estate transactions or like
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: a friend that's an attorney.
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, let's see what kind of law he practiced.
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: He so.
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: Kent Maweney, who was a friend and lawyer for Potus,
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: was also charged with conspiracy to commit murder with them
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: and Mwennie's warrant. His name appeared in both Traconis's and
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: photuses alibis for the morning Jennifer was reported missing. Mlweni
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: was interviewed twice by police afterwards. So what did they think?
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: They think if they write out these alibis that are
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: that match each other, like, let's ride out alibis. That'll
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: be fun. It'll be like a fun date night. We'll
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: go out to dinner and we'll write our matching alibis.
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: And I know, let's use my friend who's a lawyer,
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: because that gives him credibility or gives us credibility. If
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: a lawyer says that he was also with us and
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: saw us that morning, and then what lawyer agrees to
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: be a part of that Kent Kent First officials said
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: he claimed there was no meeting scheduled between Photos and
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: himself on the morning of Jennifer's disappearance. In a second interview,
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: he reportedly stated that there was a pre arranged meeting
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: with Photus, stating he arrived at Photos's home just before
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: eight am, where he stood for almost an hour before
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: leaving without seeing him. The warrant said phone record showed
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: Mowenni had called Photus the night of May twenty fourth,
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: when Photos was allegedly dumping bloody bags of evidence in Hartford,
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: but Mowenni denied any phone contact with Photos that day. See,
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: that's another thing I don't understand. This guy is an attorney,
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: and he doesn't understand that they can get the forensics
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: off of his phone to show that he made multiple
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: phone calls, or where the phone calls were made from,
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: or where his cell phone is pinging.
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I bet you he passed the bar the
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: first time. I don't make a difference. He still be a.
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: Crap MOWENNI had been arrested before. Well, so this is
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: he's clearly has very high ethical standards.
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: I just looked him up. He's in real estate law,
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: in like construction law.
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: I don't know. Yeah, so this guy was obviously an
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: attorney that Photos had used that he'd become friendly with.
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: He's not a stand up guy. He's been arrested previously.
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: And then he gets stupid. Is thought like, oh, attorney
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: client privilege. I just I can't say anything, So I'll
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: do a lot of the work and then they'll ask
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: me and I won't tell him anything. He's probably that
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: stupid and doesn't yet.
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: But they interviewed him twice saying that contradicts himself. He
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: can't even keep a story straight, and he's he agrees
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: to be part of this alibi. So Photuses and Michelle
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: Treconis's alibi is that they had a meeting with this guy,
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: this real estate.
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: I don't know what people are. He's just hoping for
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: more business from this client. I mean, I don't know.
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: It's one thing to take your client out to dinner
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: and host them somewhere. It's another thing to help him
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: commit murder and can cover it up.
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: Exactly.
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: So.
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: Mawhinney had been arrested before.
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: He says, how does this Photus guy get these people
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: so committed? He's got this girlfriend that's helping him out,
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: this attorney that's helping him out. He is getting the
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: in laws to fund his development business.
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: He's smooth. He's smooth. He's a smooth character.
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: I can't even get you to make me a turkey
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: pot pie. I know this guy is he could sell
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: a book.
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so again, I've read this line like five times now.
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: Moweni had been arrested previously. He's facing an allegation of
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: sexual assault and was charged with violating a protective order
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: filed by his estranged wife. See that's what they have
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: in common, That's where that's it. They bond over they
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: bond over the violence towards their previous spouses. She also
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: stated that she believed that Maweni was trying to kill her.
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: Oh see, that's his ex wife. Sate states that also
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: in Mowenie's arrest warrant, the Windsor Rod and Gun Club
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: was mentioned. Two members were reportedly hunting on the land
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: when they came across a large hole in the ground
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: that appeared to be hidden. One of the members described
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: the hole as one human grave. You know, the place was.
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: Six feet by two feet in the dimensions. Yeah, I
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: don't know about depth, but that was it. And it
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: was lined with a tarp.
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but they did not find any human remains, but.
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: It was lined with the tarp and limestone lime juice.
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: I was like, what are you talking about?
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: Where is that part of the murder limestone? It's it
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: covers up I believe the decay and the smell so
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: that animals don't dig it up. That's why you have
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: to use the limestone. But they you are not a
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: good murderer because you would be using lime juice and
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: pride in not being a good murder That's good, all right,
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: But anyway, this human grave that they came across it
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: did not have any human remains in it, So I
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: don't know if they pre dug it. And that was
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: the plan. That was where they were going to get
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: rid of her body, and then something happened and they
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: ended up not burying her there.
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: And then and then he was pinged around that area.
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: He said, right, yeah, I mean it was it was
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: a little And then I read that he after the disappearance,
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: he never went to the club.
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: Again, Lotus or the attorney.
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: The attorney, so it's like they were there. He was there,
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: he was floating around there was there a lot like
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: heavily and then boom vanished.
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because he dug a murder hole and he doesn't
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: want to be a there.
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: We call a murder hole a murder hole, shallow.
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: Grave, a shallow grave. So in January twenty eighth of
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty, Photus fan it might.
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: Have been for his ex wife.
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: Oh you mean too holes?
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: Was it too hold? I think so, I don't know.
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: That might have been for his ex wife.
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: Which you're talking about photuses attorney's attorney's X wife. Yeah,
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: so their plant that's what they bought.
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: Maybe that was that was part two of their big plan.
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: They were going to bury both women there.
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, or I don't know, because where is Jennifer? We
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: don't know, we don't know. So clearly they had a
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: better hiding spot for her.
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but they had the better height eating spot was
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: a last minute hiding spot, and they did they dumpsters.
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: I don't know they it's at least they put the
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: evidence in the.
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: They put the evidence of the murder in the dumpsters.
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: But her body has never been located right this way.
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: That's because if there was thirty locations that he dumped
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: stuff in, they probably didn't retrieve it in time, Like
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: if they find out days later that they're tracking his whereabouts,
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: but then they go and the dumpsters are gone by then,
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: so it's too late.
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but they found the evidence that he dumped in
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: those dumpsters, not all thirty.
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: You're gonna tell me. They went to all thirty, retrieved thirty.
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: So you're saying that he could have dumped the body
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: in one of those dumps right.
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: I've thought this all along, that they didn't get to
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: some of the dumpsters in time, and some they did, But.
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: I feel like they would have searched the dump site
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: where those dumpsters.
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like a five square foot or square five square
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: mile radius.
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: They had before I've seen please.
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And sometimes they find you, sometimes they don't.
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: All right. In January twenty eighth of twenty twenty, Photos
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: fails to appear in court. Police find him unconscious at
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: his home in Farmington after attempting to take his own
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: life by inhaling poisonous carbon monoxide inside his Farmington, Connecticut home.
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: Photos allegedly had handwritten a suicide note, which was attained
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: obtained by ABC News, which he addressed to all, dear All.
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: It was littered with self serving statements to clear his
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: entraconus his names. He said, if you are reading this,
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: I am no more. I refuse to spend even an
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: hour more in jail for something I had nothing to
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: do with. He had nothing to do with it. However,
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: he's on video dumping bloody, bloody, bloodyel cowels and into dumpsters, and.
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: His DNA was mixed in some of the blood right.
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: In thirty different locations. But the fact that this man
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: has the audacity to write a suicide note saying here's
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: what I got to do with it is beyond me.
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, here's what I got out of it. He committed
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: suicide so quickly after being charged. That makes me think
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: his lawyer or whatever he looked it up and thought,
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: oh man, the evidence is against me. I'm dead. I'm
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: going to jail. So he killed himself. It's not like
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: he tried to fight it. He went to trial and
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: then he was sentenced and he thought, I can't live
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: like this. He did it in the beginning because you
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: would fight it. You would try if you truly didn't
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: have anything to do with it, you would try to
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: fight it. Wouldn't be so quick yourself.
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, he took himself out because knew. Yeah,
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: because he knew he was guilty, and he knew he
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: was going to go to prison, he was going to
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: get a death penalty. I don't know if there's a
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: death penalty.
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: And together going to come see him, you know. And
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: I just looked it up. There was two shallow grays
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: Doug at the gun club. Okay, so it's very interesting.
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: That is too. Yeah, wow, maybe the attorney. Maybe there
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: was further plans for the attorney to also eliminate his wife,
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: and that's why they said. I know, but now that
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: you said there were that there was definitely two shallow graves.
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: That makes me think limestone, limestone, not lime juice. We're
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: not making fajitas. It's limestone. Yeah no, But that makes
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: me think that maybe that was the connection that allowed
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: the two of them.
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: Spouses right, Why.
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: Would they Why would you dig a shallow grave at
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: a gun club where there's a lot of people hunting
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: and walking around.
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: It might have been large property or something, or who knows,
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: why would you kill your spouses? I don't know.
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: I have lots of questions about that. I don't know.
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: So and he says, if you're reading this, I am
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: no more. Refuse to spend even an hour more in
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: jail for something I had nothing to do with. I
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: wanted to be known that Michelle Trecanas had nothing to
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: do with Jennifer's disappearance, and neither did Kent. Kent wasn't
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: involved here. I just want everyone to know that. He
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: goes on to write, my attorney can explain what happened
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: with the bags out on Albany Avenue, and also ads,
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: please let my children know that I love them. I
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: would do anything to be with them, but unfortunately we
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: all have our limits. The state will not rest until
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: I rot in jail. I don't know what his attorney
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: was going to explain he had to do with the
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: bags and that he dumped in the thirty different locations.
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: But I don't know. It's bad when your attorney can't
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: represent you because he's also being indicted with the murder charges.
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: Well, he's referring to his defense attorney was Cantry.
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: He had to go get a defense attorney because because
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: Kent was also being charged.
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: Right, So January thirtieth of twenty twenty, this is two
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: days after photos is found unconscious at his home. He
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: does end up dying and New York hospital.
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: Wait, did you mention how he committed suicide? Right?
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he did the carbon I don't was. I don't
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: know if it was in the Did he do it
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: in the car in the garage?
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: I understand was it was in the garage and he
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: had a vacuum tube or some type of hose that
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: went from the exhaust to inside his car to accelerate it.
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: And then he sat in the car and he closed
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: the garage door.
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and then you just go to sleep a lot.
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: Sometimes you take sleeping pills or something just kind of
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: like pass out. Yeah, don't wake up.
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: Well, he had so much carbon monoxide poisoning that he
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: did end up dying.
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know this is ridiculous, Like, Oh, I don't
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: want to go to jail for something I didn't do,
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: so I'm gonna kill myself. Well, what about taking care
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: of your kids? If you didn't do it? Like so,
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: then what you just quit on your five kids too?
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: Yep, all right, So then we get to twenty twenty
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: to twenty twenty three, there are legal proceedings continue because
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: we still have Michelle Traconis the girlfriend and Kent the attorney.
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: So the murder case against Photus is officially dismissed due
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: to his death. However, prosecutors continue building cases against Michelle
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: Traconne and can Tom Winnie. Custody of Jennifer's five children
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: is permanently granted to her mother, Gloria Farber, who also
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: files and wins a civil suit against Photus's estate. Twenty
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: twenty four, Michelle Treconas goes to trial. So in January
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: of twenty twenty four, Michelle Tracona's trial begins in Stanford, Connecticut.
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: The prosecution presents hundreds of exhibits, including surveillance footage, phone data,
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: and testimony that Traconas helped photos cover up the murder
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: and clean up the evidence. You know, here's the other thing.
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: Do you think Michelle Traconis knows where the body is?
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: Because obviously if she did, she would use that as
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: as leverage for a plea deal.
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: Right, Well, yeah, I don't know. I think the body
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: is divvied up. I mean, why would you go to
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: thirty different locations that I know? I keep going back
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: to that. But they chopped it up, you think, yeah,
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: they did drop one piece of paper towel in each
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: of the thirty dumpsters.
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: No, because I'm saying, how do you go from digging
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: a grave so where you're going to carry the body?
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: I don't know, change plans. I don't know.
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: Man to cut up a body. It takes a sick
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: individual to be able to do something like that.
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: Well, or to beat someone to death. It also takes
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: a sick person. Then they had to go clean the blood.
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: Then they had to go borrow a truck and he
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: had to ride it. I mean there was a lot,
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: there was a lot of forethought. Oh yeah, of thinking. Yeah,
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: it was opportunities for ing to say no, this is
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: not a good idea, right, and he kept doing it
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: and doing it and doing it and doing it.
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: So in March first, at twenty twenty four, Michelle Traconis
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: has found guilty of conspiracy to commit murder and two
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: counts of tampering with physical evidence. I don't know. I
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: still don't know if I. So, you think the body
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: parts are in the dumpsters, Well.
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: What's your explanation for going to thirty dumpsters because dumpster diving?
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: Well, because there was so much clean up afterwards that ye.
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: So you think paper towels spread all out like that way,
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: I don't think.
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: So, I don't know. But they didn't find any body
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: parts at all. None, well, and they found they found
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: garbage bags of the cleanup material, but there was no
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: actual body parts. I'm saying the fact that they found zero,
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: to me, means that I think he disposed of the
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: body somewhere else and then went to thirty locations to
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: try to throw off police or whatever the rasoning was
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: for that.
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: So either way, we know she's dead, we know he
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: likely did it obviously, So I don't know. They don't
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: think that she was there, Michelle was there. No, she
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: was after the fact. Yeah, that's why she gave conflicting statements,
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: and she was trying to cover up because I think
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: at one point she said she was she vouched as
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: an alibi for him. Well, changed the story.
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: Well, they had their alibis worked out, and then Kent
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: because they both were claiming that they had a meeting
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: with the attorney.
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: Kent. Yeah, you're right. It's not a good idea when
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: your alibi is your co conspirator. Right.
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: So, in May thirty, twenty twenty four, Michelle traconis a
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: sentenced to fourteen and a half years in prison.
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: Then we get to June, sentenced to twenty and she
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: can not eligible to be released until fourteen and a
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: half years. So she was said, So she's gone for
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: nearly fifteen years, right.
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: Again, not. My question is she must not know what
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: happened to the body and she must not know where
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: it is, because if she did, and the guy's dead,
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: he killed himself, right, So it's not like she has
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: to be loyal to him or keep her mouth shut
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: for him anymore. That's why I'm saying, if she knew
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: where the body was, she would have used that as
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: a bargaining tool to get a lesser shape. Did she
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: plead guilty, So a trial jury found her guilty. So
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: all right then, so now she's in jail maybe time.
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you're right. So if she was gonna use the
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: body location as a bargaining chip, yeah, it would have
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: to be done prior to a trial. So yeah, I
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: don't know.
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: I'm just saying that. I feel as if she doesn't know.
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: What do? You make a good point? I don't have
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: an answer for you, but you make a good point.
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: So then we get to recent Actually, this just happened
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: in June thirteenth of twenty twenty five, so this summer,
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: Kimp Maweney is sentenced. So Kimp Maweney entered an Alford plea,
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: that is a plea where the defendant does not admit
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: guild but acknowledges the prosecution has enough evidence to convict him.
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: So he enters this plea to a lesser charge of
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: interfering with police. And remember he was originally charged with
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: conspiracy to commit murder and the disappearance and presume death
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: of Jennifer. He was sentenced to eleven months in jail
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: time he had already effectively served, and the original conspiracy
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: murder charge was dropped due to insufficient evidence to prove
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: it beyond a reasonable doubt. Mowenni maintains that he did
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: not conspire to kill Jennifer and has stated publicly that
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: he does not know what happened to her or where
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: her body is located. I did see him give an
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: interview or something, and he does claim that if he
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: knew where the body was, he would he would tell,
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: he would give it up, he would make so. I
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: don't think tri Furtis.
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: Went rogue a little bit and deviated from the plan,
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: That's what I think, and panicked or whatnot, didn't obviously
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: avoid a shallow grave, and.
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: I think something happened and something got messed up or
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: hindered where that he wasn't able to dispose of her
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: body in the grave that they originally had planned to
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: put her in. I think he did something with the body.
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: I don't know, Maybe he threw it off a ravine
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: or in a river or something. I don't know, but
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: I would guess that Kent and Michelle don't know where
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: the body is. Otherwise I feel as if they would
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: have used that in their defense. What impact did Jennifer
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: Dulos's murder have so in June of twenty twenty one,
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: Jennifer's Law was signed into Connecticut law. Jennifer's Law named
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: in honor of Jennifer Farbar Dulos and Jennifer Magnano, which
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: are two Connecticut women who were killed by their husbands
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: after suffering years of abuse. The law was created to
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: expand the legal definition of domestic violence beyond physical abuse,
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: recognizing that many victims experienced psychological, emotional, and financial control
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: long before violence turns physical. Under Jennifer's Law, Connecticut now
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: legally recognizes coercive control as a form of domestic abuse.
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: This means that behaviors such as isolation from friends or family,
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: monitoring communications or movements, financial control, threats, intimidation or manipulation, gaslighting,
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: and emotional degradation can all be considered forms of domestic
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: violence even if no physical harm has occurred. What do
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: you think about that?
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's just that's a tough one to really, those are.
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: Tough to prove, that's for sure. I mean the physical
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: violence obviously is like that's when you have photos or
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: pattern Yeah.
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: And exercising severe control over the person or as opposed
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: to just like you know, he would let me call
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: my mom today.
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: Before Jennifer's Law, Connecticut's legal system typically only recognized physical
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: or sexual violence and domestic abuse cases. This often left victims,
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: especially those like Jennifer Doulo's who who express fear for
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: her safety during her divorce, without strong legal protections. You know,
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: here's here's the problem. Also, even if it was more
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: recognized previously that financial control, threats, stalking, following gas lighting,
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: emotional abuse are considered abuse and you can get a
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: restraining order. It doesn't have to just be evidence of
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: physical abuse. The problem is that someone like Fotus, he
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: doesn't do you think he's going to abide by He's
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: not going to abide by a protective a restraining order.
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: No.
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: He's a narcissist, yes, and a murderer and a psychopath.
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: He's not a real follower no.
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: So you know, being able to get a restraining order
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: can only go so far for a female. At the
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: end of the day, if someone like him, a restraining order,
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: a piece of paper is not going to keep him.
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: It doesn't matter if she got a restraining order because
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: he was psychologically you know, abusive or physically abusive. Someone
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: like that that planned the murder, that premeditated, that had
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: people involved, that through the cover of the night, borrowed
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: a truck, drove to her house, laid in wait, murdered
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: her in the garage, cleaned it up to row a.
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: Bible somewhere, rode a bike back, dumpsters exactly.
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: That is not someone that's going to be deterred by
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: a piece of paper. The new law allows victims experiencing
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: coercive control to obtain restraining orders before violence escalates, present
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: non physical evidence such as texts, financial records, witness statements,
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: et cetera, and court and receive broader protection through family
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: court proceedings, including custody hearings. Jennifer's law represents a major
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: step forward and domestic violence reform, aiming to prevent tragedies
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: by intervening earlier in the abuse cycle. It also inspired
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: other states to consider similar legislation, expanding the definition of
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: abuse to include psychological and financial domination domin I mean,
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: that's good, and I'm glad that it's been expanded, because
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: obviously we know that abuse comes in many forms. It's
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: not just physical, Like a woman can be severely abused
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: and he could never lay a hand on her. It
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: could all be psychological. But again when it when someone's
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: abusive like that, and a restraining order can only do
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: so much. I mean maybe it deters some men, but
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: not someone like him. I mean, as we discussed, do
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: you have anything else about this case?
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah, the so he posted six million dollars bond,
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: he did, and then he commits suicide. Yeah, so what
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: happens to the bond?
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: I don't know what happens to the bond goes to
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: the state. Oh, they get the six million dollars. It
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: doesn't like go to his children.
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: No, that sucks. Yeah, And I don't know if it's
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: because he committed suicide, like intentionally didn't appear in court.
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah that is versus if he got a car accident,
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: what would happen. But I think that's kind of weak
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: because the bond is meant to make sure you go
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: to court right, so you get ready back. So I
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: get it, he didn't go to court right, But it's
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: not like he's skipped it. I mean that so the
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: bond is not serving a purpose anymore. It's not like
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: he skipped town and they're gonna hold on the bond tilly,
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: you know, until they can get him into or it's like,
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: you know, he forfeited that and that's just his penalty.
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: It's like he's dead and there's five kids which now
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: live with the grandma. Yeah, you know what about them,
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: the mother's mother.
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so Jennifer Doulos's mother has the children cast.
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: Right, so if she secured them and they're in privacy,
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: it said, and they're not in the public eye, right.
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: I did read that the son made a statement or
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: wrote something, and this this was really he was I
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: don't remember his exact age around the time that his
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: mother was murdered, but I'm thinking it was like twelve
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: thirteen or something like that. That age, well at the
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: age they were eight to thirteen, Okay, so I think
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: he was around the thirteen age. Anyway, he wrote something.
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: I read that he said that during that time when
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: his mother disappeared and was murdered, he was not getting
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: along with her very well. And I think he had
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: a lot of the son because I mean, first of all,
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: let's look at his age. We you and I. We
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: have Annabelle. She's twelve almost thirteen. That's a very critical
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: age for kids. That's just they and then there's a
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: there's a divorce.
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: The dad psychodad, the.
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: Dad's moved out, the mom's trying to protect the kids.
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: Kids at that age they don't understand that you're trying
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: to protect them. I mean, we constantly have conversations with
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: Annabel that we're not limiting things or taking things away
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: or not allowing her to do things because we're mean
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: and we're terrible people and we want her to have
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: a terrible life. We're doing it because we're protecting her
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: and we love her and we care about her. But
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: that age, it's very difficult. They don't see it that way.
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: My point is is that he has now said that
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: he did not have the opportunity to ever say to
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: his mother. Now he realizes that all the things that
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: he was that he was upset about was just her
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: trying to techt him, and that he was at that
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: teenage critical angst age where he was just upset with
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: her and he was mad at her, and you know,
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: he was arguing with her. And now right he's devastated
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: that his last interactions with his mother before she was
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: taken from his life were these teenage angst interactions where
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: he was mad at her, he was upset with her,
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: and he can't ever get that time back. He can't
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: ever say what he really thinks. He can't say that,
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: he can't say I now understand that you were trying
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: to protect me, that you were an amazing mom. And
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: that's what's so sad, is just this mom was taken
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: away from these five children and was.
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: The only hope they well, now they're with the grandma,
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: but prior to that, she was their hope. You know,
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: she was protecting him. He was the one that's more aggressive.
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: So so it was that's a sad story. Anyway, there's
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: a lot of different documentaries out there on Jennifer Dulos.
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: If you'd like to investigate it further and watch it,
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: I would. I think it's an interesting story. I guess
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: I take away from it because I'm the same age
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: as her and I have children, and I.
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: Just here nice though, the happy and the happy ending.
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: The nice note to leave it on is all five
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: are together. They're with the grandma. I think they moved
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: to a different state.
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: Did they moved down?
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: And they're in privacy, and so you know, they can
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: kind of try and live forward.
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: That way, a normal life as much as possible.
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: And I hate to say this, but I mean maybe
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: it's better their dad's dead instead of in jail, where
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: it's kind of always lingering that your dad's there.
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: Is probably reaching out.
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: To letters or fearful that he might come out one day,
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: or you know, I don't know, yeah, I mean all right.
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: Thanks guys for listening to Legally Brunette. We appreciate it.
• 49:36
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• 49:43
  Speaker 1: ever have any suggestions for cases or you have feedback
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: on any of the cases we talk about. I love
• 49:48
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• 49:50
  Speaker 1: read them and I like to stay engaged, so please
• 49:51
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• 49:54
  Speaker 2: Thank you,