Latest / Trumponomics / How a Red State City Fell in Love With Muslim Immigrants (Rebroadcast)

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How a Red State City Fell in Love With Muslim Immigrants (Rebroadcast) · Trumponomics

0:02
Speaker 1: Benchmarks taking a break over the American Thanksgiving holiday week.
0:07
Speaker 1: For those who missed it, we're rebroadcasting one of the
0:10
Speaker 1: more encouraging episodes from this year. It's the story of
0:14
Speaker 1: a refugees journey from a Balkan's concentration camp in the
0:18
Speaker 1: n nineties to become a pillar of the business community
0:22
Speaker 1: in Red state America. We hope you enjoy it. America's
0:31
Speaker 1: post industrial rust belt is a landscape where you'd think
0:35
Speaker 1: Donald Trump's anti immigrant message struck a chord. But all
0:40
Speaker 1: isn't as it seems. Even in Missouri, a state that
0:44
Speaker 1: went overwhelmingly for the President in November. We're talking about St.
0:49
Speaker 1: Louis and where a wave of immigrants from Bosnia, many
0:54
Speaker 1: of the Muslim have helped revitalize this economy. And it's
0:58
Speaker 1: not just St. Louis. The same things going on in
1:01
Speaker 1: once mighty manufacturing powerhouses such as Detroit, Cleveland, and even Lowell, Massachusetts.
1:09
Speaker 1: This week on Benchmark, we examine how the global economy
1:12
Speaker 1: came to Middle America and Middle American never looked back.
1:25
Speaker 1: I'm Daniel Moss, executive editor for Global Economics in New York.
1:29
Speaker 1: My co host this week is Michelle jam Risco and
1:32
Speaker 1: economics reporter for Bolenberg in Washington. Michelle, thanks for joining us.
1:37
Speaker 1: Thanks for having me, Michelle. This episode is based on
1:40
Speaker 1: reporting you and our colleague Eric Anglert did from St.
1:45
Speaker 1: Louis last month. Now, you found a few surprises when
1:49
Speaker 1: you went into the heartland. What's the genesis of the
1:52
Speaker 1: story and what surprised you the most? Well, you introduced
1:56
Speaker 1: it quite well on the political framework. I mean, you
1:58
Speaker 1: would think that in a red state, a very red
2:00
Speaker 1: state like Missouri, that the big city, uh St. Louis
2:04
Speaker 1: would be a little pro trumpet well as well at least,
2:07
Speaker 1: but really this immigration issue did not strike a chord
2:10
Speaker 1: at all with the city. We found in St. Louis,
2:13
Speaker 1: people across all industries, um of advocacy, nonprofit business, people
2:19
Speaker 1: in the street, they were not only appreciative of the
2:21
Speaker 1: immigrant community and refugees, but they really clung to that
2:24
Speaker 1: community as a source of economic livelihood. I mean, this
2:27
Speaker 1: is an area that is in the heart of the
2:29
Speaker 1: rest bel that has a very um you know, excruciating
2:32
Speaker 1: transition to services economy as as much of the country,
2:36
Speaker 1: and they just really did appreciate this immigrant community. And
2:39
Speaker 1: just so we're clear, when we talk about a deep
2:41
Speaker 1: red state, we're talking about the presidential level. Clamaccas Skill
2:46
Speaker 1: was reelected in Roy Blunt had at one point what
2:51
Speaker 1: looked like a competitive rice, and the governor contests there
2:54
Speaker 1: are sometimes competitive. We're talking about red at a presidential level,
2:59
Speaker 1: exactly exactly. And now, Michelle, we'll get to a guest,
3:03
Speaker 1: special guest in just a second. But did this trip
3:05
Speaker 1: also help highlight some of the nuances in this sort
3:10
Speaker 1: of you know, north South red blue divide. I mean,
3:15
Speaker 1: it feels from the reporting you've done and what our
3:19
Speaker 1: guest is about to say that it's no longer simply
3:24
Speaker 1: red state blue state. That's like so nineties, that's so
3:28
Speaker 1: class of ninety four ish. Really it's urban rural, and
3:34
Speaker 1: it's almost not even that it's in transition to urban
3:38
Speaker 1: suburban divides. Yes, it's definitely urban rural urban suburban. And
3:43
Speaker 1: it's also national security versus economic, which well I'm sure
3:46
Speaker 1: we'll get to as well. But in the urban versus
3:48
Speaker 1: suburban and rural, I mean, in St. Louis, you see
3:51
Speaker 1: really the heart of the city going pretty overwhelmingly for Clinton,
3:55
Speaker 1: but you know, the surrounding county is going very much
3:58
Speaker 1: you know, in an access of sixty for for Trump
4:02
Speaker 1: and much of the rest of the state going for
4:03
Speaker 1: Trump as well, So really a divide, and much of
4:06
Speaker 1: that played out in this issue on their feelings on immigration.
4:09
Speaker 1: And we have a special guest on the line, one
4:11
Speaker 1: of the business owners from St. Louis who came from Bosnia,
4:15
Speaker 1: who was featured in the story side Cookie. Welcome to
4:18
Speaker 1: the show. Oh now you are the owner of a
4:22
Speaker 1: business called the Taft Street Bar. Tell us a bit
4:25
Speaker 1: about that. I opened this place in two thousands three
4:33
Speaker 1: and I've been opened every since before that. I have
4:37
Speaker 1: a small restaurants, small seafood restaurant, also in St. Louis
4:43
Speaker 1: city area, and I came in as a refugee here
4:49
Speaker 1: in St. Louis. And tell us a little bit about
4:52
Speaker 1: your arrival in St. Louis and your first impressions of
4:56
Speaker 1: the city. Um, maybe not many people know that refugees
4:59
Speaker 1: don't exactly have a high choice of where there their
5:03
Speaker 1: placed by the State Department. So what did you think
5:05
Speaker 1: of St. Louis when you were told that that's where
5:07
Speaker 1: you would arrive And what were in first impressions when
5:09
Speaker 1: you got here? Well, I didn't know exactly where I'm
5:13
Speaker 1: going and beginning when I applied to come in the
5:16
Speaker 1: United States, uh, I was coming from Belgrade and also
5:21
Speaker 1: I was in two concentration camp in hold by Serbians.
5:28
Speaker 1: So we apply, me and my brother, we apply for
5:32
Speaker 1: the city on the river because we used to work
5:37
Speaker 1: on boats anyway, So we ended up in St. Louis
5:41
Speaker 1: right after Flawed came here. We not much money. I
5:48
Speaker 1: didn't speak any English, and I have a one hundred
5:52
Speaker 1: German marks, which was equal fifty U s. Dollars back then.
5:59
Speaker 1: So we him through International Institute and that was it,
6:06
Speaker 1: and we work our way up. I started working as
6:10
Speaker 1: a prep cook in one small Mexican restaurant. Of course
6:14
Speaker 1: I didn't speak any English and all recipes in Spanish.
6:17
Speaker 1: So Welcome to United States said, it sounds like a
6:22
Speaker 1: classic immigrant story. I mean, I'm one myself, but I
6:25
Speaker 1: certainly wasn't a refugee and I certainly did not spend
6:30
Speaker 1: time in a concentration camp. Did your experiences prior to
6:37
Speaker 1: leaving Bosnia? Did that infuse you with a overwhelming drive
6:47
Speaker 1: to make it in the United States despite arriving with
6:51
Speaker 1: just a few German marks in the pocket. And it's
6:54
Speaker 1: interesting to hear say marks, I'm used to hearing Euros,
6:57
Speaker 1: but it's a sign of the times that were then.
7:00
Speaker 1: Tell us about what went through your mind when you
7:04
Speaker 1: found out you were going to St. Louis, and did
7:07
Speaker 1: you have any sense of how you were going to
7:09
Speaker 1: make it and become the pillar of the community that
7:12
Speaker 1: you now are. Well. Back then, you know you are
7:19
Speaker 1: looking to save your life, and I was. I was
7:23
Speaker 1: for about ten months in Belgrade and the country was
7:29
Speaker 1: they said no in the war. But they have a
7:33
Speaker 1: lot of police on the street, and you know, sometime
7:36
Speaker 1: I will get stopped when when when when I went
7:40
Speaker 1: to buy a bread? And sometimes I didn't get arrested
7:42
Speaker 1: because they have a questions for me. But you know,
7:47
Speaker 1: when I finally get into programs to come in the
7:50
Speaker 1: United States, I I didn't think that it still happened,
7:55
Speaker 1: to be honest with you, because it was very hard
7:58
Speaker 1: before war to get into United States. And I never
8:01
Speaker 1: thought that I will I will be one of the
8:05
Speaker 1: people who will be living in United States. And you
8:10
Speaker 1: know what we know about United States back from the movies.
8:14
Speaker 1: We know about clients of the Hollywood and big cities.
8:20
Speaker 1: We didn't know anything about crime and poverty, and you
8:24
Speaker 1: know that some people experience here in United States, and
8:29
Speaker 1: you know not not everybody living in the weld that
8:34
Speaker 1: we taught that that that's what is all about America.
8:38
Speaker 1: But when we come here, I ended up in southside
8:42
Speaker 1: of St. Louis City, where was uh diversity. You have
8:51
Speaker 1: all kinds of people uh Arabic uh. And I was
8:57
Speaker 1: one of the first Bosnians who came, not first, but
9:02
Speaker 1: first dozen families that that came as a refugee here.
9:06
Speaker 1: So you know, we didn't know anybody. I didn't know
9:09
Speaker 1: anybody or anything about where I am and how to
9:14
Speaker 1: get anywhere. So you know, later on we started coming
9:20
Speaker 1: in international instut to start learning English and and and
9:24
Speaker 1: and way to behave in United States because here is
9:29
Speaker 1: different than anywhere else. The type in and tell us
9:32
Speaker 1: about the business that you started. How did you get
9:35
Speaker 1: the money to start a business and then expand it? Well,
9:41
Speaker 1: I was I was on the beginning. I was studying
9:45
Speaker 1: as a as a prep cook and working my way up.
9:48
Speaker 1: And four years later I become his active set at
9:51
Speaker 1: Missouri Botan Car Garden and money was much better. But
9:57
Speaker 1: still I didn't think that I will have money to
10:01
Speaker 1: open up and I started going on a restaurant. Auctions
10:06
Speaker 1: are buying you stuff, chairs, stables, and things like that
10:12
Speaker 1: and storing that in a couple of garages that I
10:15
Speaker 1: that I've entered from the friends who worked for with me.
10:19
Speaker 1: And then when when company that I worked for didn't
10:25
Speaker 1: negotiate the contract, I I was out of work and
10:31
Speaker 1: I would start looking for the place. Went in one
10:35
Speaker 1: place and and the women that I tried to rent
10:37
Speaker 1: it from, she was really unreasonable and I didn't sign
10:42
Speaker 1: the contract. So I went on lunch with friends and
10:47
Speaker 1: I I talked to the owner and he said, well,
10:50
Speaker 1: I'm moving next door. I said I was going to
10:52
Speaker 1: be here. He said, well, I don't know. So I
10:56
Speaker 1: asked him for the name of the property on that
11:00
Speaker 1: he didn't give me. That I find out and I
11:04
Speaker 1: talked to the guy and I signed the list same
11:09
Speaker 1: day and start working and rehabing the property because it
11:15
Speaker 1: was in very bad shape. Money. I borrow some money
11:21
Speaker 1: from my family and I put some money on my
11:27
Speaker 1: credit cards, which was really bad idea. But when I
11:34
Speaker 1: opened my first restaurant, I have three fifty bucks on
11:41
Speaker 1: my account and I have two card payments and house
11:46
Speaker 1: payments as well. At three fifty bucks. It was all
11:53
Speaker 1: my capital in the world, and I was behind like
11:56
Speaker 1: over three three thousands in a debt with family, which
12:03
Speaker 1: you know with bank you can make a payment, small payment,
12:06
Speaker 1: but you know when you meet your family you have
12:08
Speaker 1: to look them in eyes, so you know you ordering
12:11
Speaker 1: the money. So you have to really work something up. Okay,
12:15
Speaker 1: So fast forward Sedyk from that fairly tough start to
12:20
Speaker 1: where you are there. You're a pillar of the St.
12:23
Speaker 1: Louis community. I understand you're the head of the Bosnian
12:27
Speaker 1: Chamber of Commerce. Just briefly described the trajectory there. Well.
12:36
Speaker 1: As I said, I opened at that place in August
12:41
Speaker 1: of two thousands, and I wasn't involved in community work
12:46
Speaker 1: or anything like that. But you know, I was pretty
12:49
Speaker 1: decent work, and my my business was pretty decent. I
12:55
Speaker 1: I started growing and eye bought property where I am
12:59
Speaker 1: now Taft restaurant, and I was trying to open cater
13:04
Speaker 1: in kitchen because my kitchen become too small for what
13:08
Speaker 1: I was doing. Anyway, I become a sick and things
13:14
Speaker 1: did not go as well as I thought, so city
13:19
Speaker 1: told me that I cannot open cater in kitchen. I
13:23
Speaker 1: have to open a restaurant. And put building in a
13:27
Speaker 1: shape where it was in the beginning of twentieth century.
13:32
Speaker 1: So I did that, and I couldn't handle two restaurants.
13:35
Speaker 1: I sold a restaurant and grand I opened one a
13:40
Speaker 1: gray waste and stuff. And then I started slowly but
13:47
Speaker 1: approaching to the to the community work where we start
13:50
Speaker 1: busting in Chamber of Commerce. And I was just a
13:55
Speaker 1: member back then, and you know, very soon we started
14:01
Speaker 1: getting idea about applying for the grant that we will
14:05
Speaker 1: later on get to that grant and by the building
14:08
Speaker 1: where we are now at fifty th nine, Gray wish
14:12
Speaker 1: and describe the contribution that the Bosnian community is making
14:17
Speaker 1: to the economic life of St. Louis. How many members
14:21
Speaker 1: do you have in the Bosnian Chamber of Commerce, how
14:24
Speaker 1: many residents of St. Louis are of Bosnian the saint
14:28
Speaker 1: and how does the city feel about you? Well, there
14:33
Speaker 1: is about forty three Bosnian businesses as a member of
14:38
Speaker 1: Bosnian Chamber, and we have many American businesses who wants
14:42
Speaker 1: to make connections with with Bosnians as workers and as businesses.
14:48
Speaker 1: A Bosnian people did a lot of good things in
14:54
Speaker 1: the city of St. Louis and later on in the
14:59
Speaker 1: County because as our first stop was city. So we
15:03
Speaker 1: still have a good amount of people in the city,
15:07
Speaker 1: but majority now is in a Saint Louis County, mostly
15:13
Speaker 1: South County, and they are still involved in um in
15:21
Speaker 1: in in a lot of different things. They actually wants
15:24
Speaker 1: to make their neighborhoods, either city or county, better place
15:31
Speaker 1: for their children, for community, for everything. That's that's one
15:36
Speaker 1: thing I wanted to get at to city because you
15:38
Speaker 1: know the neighborhood that you're you and your Bosnian other
15:42
Speaker 1: Bosnian refugees settled and is Evo neighborhood right in the city,
15:46
Speaker 1: and that was a place that a lot of people
15:48
Speaker 1: said was not so pleasant a place before. But once
15:52
Speaker 1: um you all came in and had this kind of
15:54
Speaker 1: rehabilitative attitude, opened more businesses more so than native born St.
16:00
Speaker 1: Louis AND's um and and really kind of got your
16:03
Speaker 1: got your hands dirty in the community. Um it turned
16:06
Speaker 1: around a bit. Can you tell us about that? I mean,
16:07
Speaker 1: what was your sense of the community beforehand? I was
16:11
Speaker 1: a tenant in the place, second second floor of my
16:15
Speaker 1: restaurant back then in four I moved in and this
16:21
Speaker 1: was a horrible neighborhood and Uh. In nine six there
16:30
Speaker 1: was a big wave of the Bosnians coming from from
16:34
Speaker 1: Germany and from Bosnia. So we started and settled up
16:40
Speaker 1: right here in the Biban neighborhood. We started buying property,
16:43
Speaker 1: fixing them up and it was really blooming. And then uh,
16:50
Speaker 1: I will say in two thousand to two thousand three
16:52
Speaker 1: they start moving out in account. But there's still a
16:56
Speaker 1: lot of Bosnians in the viable neighborhood. And there is
17:00
Speaker 1: a many neighborhood organizations uh, as well as busting in
17:07
Speaker 1: chamber of commerce and better people. Now that we are
17:11
Speaker 1: working together lately b form uh SEED which is community
17:18
Speaker 1: improving district that is operating from seven Gray Ways to
17:24
Speaker 1: Christie Avenue. There is h one twenty seven property owners
17:31
Speaker 1: that we wore to raise ourselves taxes so we can
17:36
Speaker 1: pay for security, uh, beautification, cleaning and things like that.
17:45
Speaker 1: Now said, Missouri is a state that went heavily for
17:50
Speaker 1: Donald Trump last November. At various parts of the campaign
17:56
Speaker 1: preceding the election, issues of race and immigration or towards
18:01
Speaker 1: the forefront of our national narrative. What was going through
18:05
Speaker 1: your mind last year and last November. Well, you know, um,
18:16
Speaker 1: I hope I will not get misunderstood. There is a
18:23
Speaker 1: hate and mistreating and things like that. But a lot
18:31
Speaker 1: of people forget just in Missouri, United States of America,
18:37
Speaker 1: where is their heritage coming from? Maybe maybe they were
18:41
Speaker 1: not refugee, but they are immigrants like cure and coror
18:49
Speaker 1: of the skin or heavily accent like mine is doesn't
18:53
Speaker 1: mean anything. Uh, people try to hurt you. Maybe they
19:01
Speaker 1: don't even think why. Fortunately, here in the city of St. Louis,
19:07
Speaker 1: our picture is not bad. Picture is pretty good and uh,
19:14
Speaker 1: neighbors try to stick together and most of them appreciate
19:20
Speaker 1: what we did here in the past years. Having said
19:24
Speaker 1: all of that, is there a country you would have
19:27
Speaker 1: rather been resettled in. No, No, I didn't know anything
19:36
Speaker 1: about United States, and the United States definitely look different
19:42
Speaker 1: now and three when I come here. But if I
19:52
Speaker 1: have to choose, people don't understand what we have here. People,
19:58
Speaker 1: we this is as country in the world. What is
20:04
Speaker 1: it do you think we have here? Well, we have diversity,
20:10
Speaker 1: and uh we have most of the people in the
20:14
Speaker 1: United States they are really good, really nice people, and
20:19
Speaker 1: they have a bad apples in every basket. People who
20:22
Speaker 1: just either they are not educated or or they saw
20:27
Speaker 1: something on TV that some terrorists dead and all people
20:35
Speaker 1: are not saying people from from Muslin community. They are
20:39
Speaker 1: not all terrorists and they are not all bad. You know, terrorists, terrorists.
20:46
Speaker 1: I don't want to have anything with them. But I
20:49
Speaker 1: am born and raised as a Musclid. You know. Craziness, Uh,
20:56
Speaker 1: people who who who do something? I don't know what
21:00
Speaker 1: they're doing, and I doesn't socialize with them. I don't
21:02
Speaker 1: know any of them. I don't, you know, but you
21:04
Speaker 1: know people usually some people put in the same sack
21:10
Speaker 1: all of us. So are you optimistic about immigrants and
21:15
Speaker 1: refugees in America in the future? I am, I am.
21:24
Speaker 1: I have a meeting in the mayor's office a few
21:26
Speaker 1: days ago where are people from a few cities from
21:31
Speaker 1: the Greece came over here and tried to bring some
21:37
Speaker 1: refugees from Greece to the to the to the Saint Louis.
21:44
Speaker 1: So I don't know how how it will work, but
21:47
Speaker 1: hopefully they will get through well. Side, we're humbled by
21:54
Speaker 1: a story. There's a lot more that we could say
21:57
Speaker 1: in this conversation, but the show my us go on.
22:00
Speaker 1: I want to thank you so much for joining us. Oh,
22:04
Speaker 1: thank you for having Well, you know, Michelle, I read
22:11
Speaker 1: the story that you and Eric wrote with some interest,
22:14
Speaker 1: and not just because I'm your boss, but it seemed counterintuitive.
22:19
Speaker 1: But wow, I did not know that Siddiq had spent
22:22
Speaker 1: time in concentration camps. Plural one would be bad enough, right, right, Yeah,
22:28
Speaker 1: I mean there's so much detail that this issue is
22:31
Speaker 1: so complicated on a national level, even on state level.
22:35
Speaker 1: Once you get down to the city and once you
22:36
Speaker 1: get down to stories like sidis, it is a lot
22:38
Speaker 1: more interesting to dig into the detail and see, you know,
22:41
Speaker 1: the color behind each anecdote that contributes to this I
22:45
Speaker 1: was also very interested and frankly touched without hesitation, knowing
22:52
Speaker 1: what he knows now, he would never have picked any
22:55
Speaker 1: other country, he said, people don't understand what we have here.
22:59
Speaker 1: What if you think about that? I was fascinated. Actually
23:01
Speaker 1: brought to mind another family we explored in the Fall,
23:04
Speaker 1: the Syrian refugee family in Phoenix, that said much the same.
23:07
Speaker 1: I mean, they said, you know things that the opposition
23:11
Speaker 1: would would just love to hear. You know, I'm so American,
23:14
Speaker 1: I feel American. I feel like I'm part of this economy.
23:16
Speaker 1: I want to give back, I want to contribute, and
23:18
Speaker 1: that's much of what we heard from Siddik as well.
23:21
Speaker 1: He's you know, as as you called him, a pillar
23:22
Speaker 1: in the community. He's he's leading a chamber of commerce,
23:26
Speaker 1: he's you know, very pro business. He's trying to reduce
23:29
Speaker 1: crime and uh, you know, reduce the blight in the community.
23:31
Speaker 1: So it's very much a part of the sort of
23:34
Speaker 1: American dream, American spirit that they've got. And yeah, as
23:39
Speaker 1: you said, without hesitation, he says, no, I wouldn't want
23:41
Speaker 1: to be anywhere else. And you're going to keep reporting
23:44
Speaker 1: on the role of immigrant communities and the economies of
23:49
Speaker 1: the cities in which they are located. Yeah, I mean
23:52
Speaker 1: there's a lot of stories to tell. I mean, we've
23:54
Speaker 1: we've tackled a little bit of the rust belt, especially
23:56
Speaker 1: with this story. Um, like I said, we went to
23:58
Speaker 1: Phoenix last fall. Um, there's a ton of places, fascinating
24:02
Speaker 1: things going on across the country, especially when you get
24:04
Speaker 1: into the local levels of you know, politics that might
24:07
Speaker 1: be playing out in unusual ways, but also the economic
24:10
Speaker 1: story being truly fascinating one. Um. We originally got into
24:13
Speaker 1: this in part because, uh, you know, President Trump says
24:17
Speaker 1: he wants to grow the economy three or three and
24:18
Speaker 1: a half percent at least sometimes upwards of that figure,
24:22
Speaker 1: and economists are saying you can't do that unless you
24:24
Speaker 1: at least keep immigration stable. And yet that's not part
24:27
Speaker 1: of his message either. So at least in the short term, Uh,
24:31
Speaker 1: we're gonna have some hurdles here, and we're looking at
24:33
Speaker 1: you know, how this affects people on a local level,
24:35
Speaker 1: how it affects him on a state level, and then
24:37
Speaker 1: eventually how it's going to affect a national economy. Well,
24:40
Speaker 1: we'll get you back on next time you published one
24:43
Speaker 1: of those stories. Appreciate it. Benkmark will be back next week,
24:49
Speaker 1: and until then, you can find us in so many places,
24:53
Speaker 1: very very many places, the Bloomberg Terminal, Bloomberg dot com, out,
24:57
Speaker 1: Bloomberg app, as well as I Tunes, pocket Cast, and Stitcher.
25:02
Speaker 1: While you're there, take a minute rate and review the
25:04
Speaker 1: show so more listeners can find us and let us
25:07
Speaker 1: know what you thought of the show. You can follow
25:09
Speaker 1: me at Moss Underscore, Echo, and Michelle You are at
25:14
Speaker 1: m L jam Risco, m L j A, m R
25:17
Speaker 1: I s k O. Benchmark is produced by Sarah Patterson.
25:21
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. To see you next time