Latest / Alive, I Guess Podcast / Episode 21 - Codependency Be Happenin

Transcript

Episode 21 - Codependency Be Happenin · Alive, I Guess Podcast

• 0:00
  unknown: I'm live like this.
• 0:01
  unknown: I'm a live like it's I'ma live like this in the case.
• 0:06
  unknown: I'ma live like it.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: I'ma live like yes.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: So we might as well tell me back about it.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: What's good, Joe?
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to your safe space.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, RJ, and this is the Alive I Guess Podcast.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: If you're new here, welcome.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate you for joining.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: And if you've been here, welcome back.
• 0:30
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• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: Get you the bonus episodes, bonus content, exclusive content, and just a whole lot more of me and AIGP.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: Today we are going to be discussing codependency.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: As a current codependent in recovery, I realized a lot of people deal with codependency, whether they realize it or not.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: And it shows up in a lot of different relationships, whether that be romantic, family dynamics, with your children.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: Codependency tends to come up, and because I understand this isn't a common thing, and because I've dealt with it so much in my life, I decided we need to talk about it.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: But before we dive in, y'all already know we gotta do a little gratitude.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're listening today, say something out loud that you are grateful for.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: And if you are watching, drop something below in the comments.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: Today, I am grateful for my bed.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: I have been working so much lately, so much.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: I have been so tired.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm talking sunup to sundown and beyond working.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: So when I hit that bed, it gives me life.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you get what I'm saying?
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like it keeps me going.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: We just bought this bed like a year ago, invested a lot of money into this bed, and it is worth every dime because it be getting me right on a nightly basis, and I appreciate it.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: But all right, let's get into it because codependency be happening.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: So you know me, I'm not about to just start talking without doing my research.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm going to tell y'all exactly what codependency means before we even get into it.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: Let's just make sure we are aligned on the meaning.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: Codependency is a dysfunctional relationship dynamic where one person, the giver, excessively enables and relies on the other, the taker, often neglecting their own needs, mental health, and personal boundaries.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: So that means any dynamic where there is a heavy load on one person doing the giving, the other person doing the receiving, and the person who's doing the giving is neglecting everything about themselves to make sure that the person receiving is doing okay.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: Which means your emotional state as the giver is tied on the receiver's moods, needs, approval.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's like this person can't make no move if it don't affect this person in a positive way.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: And everything that this person does is always dictated by the receiver.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: You always seem to feel responsible for how people feel.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: And when you can't change a person's feeling, if they aren't feeling good, it makes you really anxious, it makes you worried.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: It often shows up as people saying, like, I'm just a people pleaser.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: Nope, you're probably a codependent.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: And this isn't something that solely shows up in romantic relationships, like codependency especially shows up in like family dynamics, parent dynamics, child parent dynamics specifically.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, it can show up in friends and it can show up in work as well.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's not just exclusively for family dynamics or relationships.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: And most of the time, like myself, codependency develops as more of a coping mechanism so that you can learn to manage other people's emotions so you can stay safe or so that you can feel safe.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: My codependency came from childhood.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: I was very codependent, especially with my mom, in terms of her emotions, making sure I did everything that was right so that she didn't have to worry about me.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: Every action I made, every step I took was all based on how she was feeling, or to try to get her to feel a certain way, a positive way.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: My mom, you know, she was a single mom, taking care of three kids, a lot of stressors, you know, dealing with outside world, you going through custody with your baby daddy, you know, it's a lot.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: And so she was stressed out.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: I get it.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: I think about who she was and how she had three kids at my age by herself, dealing with my dad, oh yeah, I'd be stressed too.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not gonna be all cheery all the time.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I understood that at a young age.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: And so whenever she'd have a bad mood or not like feeling receptive to like wanting to deal with us in a sense, like, you know, after work, you're just trying to chill.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: I'm making sure I'm doing what I can to brighten her day.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I took that, internalized that, and turned it into my way of expressing love.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's how it gets tricky, and that's how it turns into these codependent relationships as we grow up, as we get older.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: We take the things that we do and we only base it on how we make other people feel rather than how we actually feel, what we actually want to do, how that actually sits with us and how that actually affects us.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: And for me, it wasn't necessarily to keep me safe from danger.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: I was a sensitive child.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: I was a Pisces, and so I recognized being safe as not being in trouble or like yelled at or just anything negative, which didn't happen because again, my mom was stressed.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: But it also showed up on my dad's side.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: My relationship with him was more codependent in not emotions per se.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: My dad was very well, not just my dad, my dad and my stepmom growing up, it was like I felt like I could never do right.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: And so I was always trying to do the best I could to get as right as I could possible.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: And so every single thing that I did over there, I'm making sure it's the exact right way, or if it's not the way that they like, like I'm fixing it immediately.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: Everything I did was to make sure I was in my head actually safe because I felt like I was always gonna get in trouble or always get yelled at.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: So you take that, both households for many years.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, of course I was codependent in my adulthood.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: But fortunately, went to therapy, identified that I was a codependent and the ways in which I was codependent and how codependency was showing up, and started to learn to undo those things because it absolutely showed up in my relationship today with my wife.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: Not today, because I've unlearned it, but during our time together, it for show turned up.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_00: And it is actually something that I am still working to unlearn because there is a difference between caring for a person and doing everything for the sake of this person's emotions.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna use people pleasing and codependency kind of interchangeably because I recognize not everybody is going to acknowledge their codependency, which is fine.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: It takes some acceptance and awareness.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: But a lot of people think that being a people pleaser is like a badge of honor.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: Fair, but I'm gonna show you the ways in which it kind of comes up and how it's the same.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_00: So, what can people pleasing slash codependency look like?
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: It means saying yes when you really wanted to say no, and then being like, damn, I really don't want to do this, or damn, I really did not mean this, or damn, I am gonna have to go through with this and I don't want to, but you feel you have to for the sake of this person's emotions.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: You can't let them down, you can't disappoint them.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I guess you're gonna have to be disappointed because that's you can't show up that way for them.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: That's one way.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: Another way is shrinking yourself to keep the peace or to keep someone calm.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: Middle school, this was the time where I was living with my dad.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: I literally didn't talk so much that people didn't know what my voice sounded like at a time.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: I even I even went through a phase.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: I'ma say it.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: I don't care.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: I went through a phase where I also didn't talk so much.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like I kept my mouth so shut so long, uh you know I need a little gum sometimes.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's sad as fuck, but like it's true.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like I literally did not talk because I felt like every time I spoke, I was saying the wrong things.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm keeping quiet, I'm shutting down, I'm not saying a word because it feels like every time I say something, y'all got a complaint.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: So this doesn't, you know, this is extreme.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not doing this today, but if you're in a relationship, it means always compromising, always doing what the other person wants because you don't want them to get upset, you don't want to go through an argument, you don't want to hear them go off and stuff, but somehow they always manage to do so, but you still find yourself shrinking yourself because you're people pleasing.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: Another thing is always having to edit what you say before you say it, because you don't want to set that person off.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: I know today of a person who people have to be very mindful of how they engage with this person because this person is so quick to catch an attitude.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: And that's not something that you should do.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that's not an environment that you want to willingly walk into.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: And that shows up a lot.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: It may not be that extreme, but if you're like, I don't want to set this person off, make this person mad, bring up nothing to where they'll go on no tangent, and you have to tailor what you say, that's a problem.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not saying this goes for like those times when you have something, like something to express, and you want to be mindful of how you say it because you don't want to come across as a bitch or like defensive, that's different.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm talking about you are taking their emotions into consideration, and their emotions are like you don't want to set them off.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not even that you're saying the things wrong, but they usually get into that mode, and so you either hold back on what you say or you coddle them in a way in the way you deliver what you need to say, like that's what I'm referring to.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know that person, the one you always gotta watch what you say, don't say this around them.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I knew it was gonna be a problem when I said that.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_00: Nobody likes that person, nobody wants to be around that person.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: That person's annoying, and that person is frustrating to deal with because damn if you do, damn if you don't, they always gonna have a problem.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: And that shit gets old.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: It also looks like apologizing constantly, even when you didn't do anything wrong.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: You're so used to messing something up, you feel like you're being perceived as like bad that you just automatically apologize.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm talking about very small things.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like, if you're speaking, for example, my wife and I, we again used to be very codependent, and we would just be having conversations and maybe like she get caught in a thought loop because she couldn't like everything was kind of flooding her head at once, and she couldn't get everything out, and so she'd like hesitate and she'd be like, I'm sorry.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, you don't have to apologize, like you nothing is wrong here, you didn't do anything wrong, or you just are making human mistakes that are very small, and you feel like you have to sincerely apologize.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like, no, just it's okay.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: But you do that because you're so worried about being wrong, messing up.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: It also looks like needing validation before you make any decisions for yourself.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: You ever call somebody and explain a situation, you know the direction you want to go, but you need to hear them agree with you before you can make that decision.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: That's not on accident.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: You need that validation for yourself because you can't make any decisions for yourself because you need to rely on the other person's emotions to give you the okay so that you can move forward with what you already know.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: Ain't that messed up?
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I still kind of do it myself today.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: I'm talking to myself, I know how it goes, but that's what people pleasing, aka codependency, will have you doing.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: So then, who do these people who are codependent usually turn into?
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: They're usually like the strong friend or the golden child, or on the flip side, they're the friend that always needs help or the child that always needs help too.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like, because codependency is a give and a take relationship, someone's gotta give, someone's gotta take.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: So where there's someone who is holding it all together, there's someone else receiving it all.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: So you can very much so be codependent if you are in fact taking everybody else's work, emotion, everything, and not being the person who is giving it out, so to speak.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: But for the sake of this conversation, we're gonna focus more on the givers of the codependent relationship because that specific role, that golden child, the main person who has it together, the strong friend, that part of the codependent relationship, that role gives you a sense of identity.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: So when you're in these positions and you feel like someone doesn't need you, it doesn't feel like relief.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: It feels like rejection because your whole identity is based off what you can do for others.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: So if you aren't being put in a position to where you can do for others, rather than it feeling like, oh, like I can breathe and turn this energy towards myself, you tend to crumble.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: It makes you uncomfortable.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: Is this sounding familiar?
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: Does it sound like something that you deal with?
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: Or how about this?
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: Do you find yourself constantly attracting people that you need to fix?
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: Do you find yourself always getting the same type of partner, same type of friend, and they're very similar to maybe how a parent acts with you if that's where you learned it from?
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: Does that sound like something you deal with?
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's not because you keep getting lucky, it's not because you put an ad out online saying you're looking for this person, it's because that's who you attract, because that's what you need, because you have to give to another person to feel good about yourself.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_00: And unfortunately, we have been taught that being a people pleaser is like a good thing.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: It absolutely isn't.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: It is not.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: How is it good that you turn your needs away from you, put them down, and you say, I'm gonna base everything that I do on this other person, how they feel, what they want, what they need, and I'm just gonna neglect myself.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: Doesn't that sound crazy?
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: Put it in terms of a job.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: Let's say a job is demanding all of that from you.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: I need you to put all of your needs down, everything you want, however you feel.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: I need you to just let it go and worry about me.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: Wouldn't you feel a little like hold up?
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: What?
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's crazy to base everything that you do on someone else.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: Because what about you?
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: You gotta look out for you, Lucius, because eventually that starts to cost you big.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: Eventually, you get comfortable and making yourself feel small because it feels safer than actually asking for help.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: That doesn't mean it's right.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: If you need help, ask for help, but that feels uncomfortable, so you just suck it up and continue to show up as this person who has it together and be perceived as, oh, they're doing okay because that is safer in your mind.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: But it actually isn't.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: Your needs are going unmet, your voice is getting smaller, your confidence in yourself is getting weaker, and eventually that safety net you're feeling from playing small will disappear.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: Eventually, you'll just be in a prison of your own mind because you don't feel like you have any way of expressing yourself and you won't even know how to do it because you've been playing this way for so long.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: My therapist brought to my awareness that I was a codependent in 2018.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I'd say up until about maybe two years ago, that codependency was still showing up very strong in my relationship with my mom and in my relationship with my wife.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: More so my wife.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm cool, I'm good.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: That all came crumbling down when she came to my house and saw that I was confined to a space, not talking, not doing anything.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, oh, the mask has been taken off.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: So I had to start showing up as myself, and myself, sometimes I'm going through things.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes I'm down and out.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like it was uncomfortable to be viewed as the real me when I've been showing up in this manner for so long.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I was a kid who got the good grades, the basketball, the scholarship, the good job, the good income.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: I'm married.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm gay.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: Only little thing, but like not even, you know?
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm in a great relationship.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: And so I can't let you see anything wrong with me.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: But that got deconstructed, and now she knows RJ.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: RJ goes through things.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: RJ's getting better, but RJ be going through it sometimes.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: And then with my wife, how that showed up is not saying things because I don't want to make her upset.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: There are a lot of areas in our life where our upbringing tends to come to a head because we were raised differently.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: What we identify as problems, the other is like, that's not a problem.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's not how I was raised.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: And so we had to one become aware of that, but two, learn to work through that.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: Because a lot of stuff we would just be like, why do you do things this way?
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: And the other be like, Why are you tripping on this?
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: So I didn't want to upset her.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: I love my wife deeply.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: She's literally my best friend and my favorite person in the world.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to make her upset.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: So that turned to a lot of me being quiet.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: Or let's just do what you want.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: Or I just want to get you everything and make sure you have everything and you feel like you don't have to want for anything because I want to make up for any childhood wounds, any past wounds that you have, and make sure you're okay.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: Guess what?
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: You can't.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: Ain't an amount of gifts in the world and an amount of care and love you can give a person that can undo a wound that you did not put there, they got to go through that and fix that themselves.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_00: And when they're ready, the way you show up can be helpful in their recovery and their healing.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_00: But no matter how much you give of yourself, a person's emotions are not your responsibility.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: They're not.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: And my therapist told me that.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_00: I'll never forget.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_00: I was debating on telling my mom something.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: I can't remember.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: I've wound up telling my mom, so that's the great point.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: And we're going through like why I'm having such a difficult time bringing this up to them.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: I think it was around me like expressing something that they did, but I'm like, I don't want to hurt her feelings because this is something from like childhood, and I'm making all the excuses of like, you know, she was going through stuff, her own upbringing and her understanding and.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: And my therapist is like, well, that still doesn't take away how it affected you.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, but I don't want to hurt her feelings.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: And she's like, her feelings are not your responsibility.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: I remember that messed me up, which is crazy because like I love these people.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: I love my mom.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: I love my wife.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, I don't want to intentionally hurt their feelings.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm not saying things like to be rude, and I'm not saying them in a crazy ass way, but like I have to express it, and however they receive it is how they receive it in terms of the emotional impact.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: There is a difference between saying you get on my goddamn nerves, and saying, sometimes the things that you do tends to bother me.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I'd appreciate it if you changed it in whatever way.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like there's a difference in the delivery, but once your delivery is on point, the way it impacts their emotions is not your responsibility.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: And that was one of the hardest things I had to accept.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: But once I did, it helped me start to become independent and break down my codependency.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: Now I'm able to express whatever I need to with either one of them.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: And that just makes it easier to express whatever I need to with anybody else in the world.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: Now, if my wife does something that gets on my nerve, because believe it or not, she be getting on my nerve.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: Love her dearly.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: She gets on my nerve sometimes, and I get on hers.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: But now, if something gets on my nerves or she does something that bothers me, or something doesn't sit right with me, I can express that.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: And now, because we've been working on this codependency so long, the original emotions that she used to get were offended and defensive in response.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: But now she's able to receive it and hear what I'm saying and take it in, acknowledge it, correct it.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: Now it's not like, oh, like you have to put your guard up and protect yourself.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: I was also doing that too.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like it was hard to take criticism because it's like, what do you mean?
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_00: I'm doing everything right.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'm doing everything that I know you like because I'm watching you so closely.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: I know my actions are positively impacting you.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: So when you come to me with feedback, that can't be right because I'm on point.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: What are you what are you saying?
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: Now I just take it as feedback.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's an opportunity to learn and grow.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: But you have to separate yourself from this person's emotions and make your own actions and decisions based on what you want and not what someone else wants.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's hella easy to get taken advantage of as a codependent.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's like a byproduct of codependency.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like, of course, you're gonna get taken advantage of because you don't know how to stick up for yourself.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_00: Whenever a loved one of mine is dealing with an issue with another person, I always advise them that you have to adjust your tolerance and how you let people talk to you because you teach people how they can deal with you.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: You teach people how to engage with you and what they can get away with.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: So if you are codependent and you are constantly putting your needs on hold to the side, what you're showing is that your needs are negotiable.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're dealing with someone who is a taker, they're always going to assume your needs aren't really needs, they're just nice to have, and they're never gonna give that to you because that's not the dynamic of the relationship.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's a vicious cycle.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_00: You give, they take.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: You feel resentful because you gave when you didn't want to give, or the consequence was your needs, and so you give more to feel better about it.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_00: They don't feel any different, they just feel like, oh, you're giving more, so I'm expecting more, which only builds the resentment, and now we're caught in the loop.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: Now we are caught in the codependent dynamic, and it never gets better because the moment you stop, it's not taken as having boundaries, it's taken as rejection on both ends.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: If you feel like this person don't need you, you feel rejected.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_00: If you stop giving to this person, they feel rejected.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: And unfortunately, some people don't always know that's what they're doing.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: Now, others, yes.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: My mom had no clue that's what the dynamic was.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_00: My dad is a narcissist and he did, and he didn't care.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_00: So depending on who you're dealing with, they might know it might accidentally, or not accidentally, because they know might be taking advantage of you, or they aren't aware, and so they just continue in the cycle because that's just life in their eyes, and that's what you're used to as well.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: So once you finally come to a place where you realize you're operating in this codependent cycle, recognizing it doesn't mean you have to like blame yourself.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_00: I know that's easier said than done, but a lot of times, again, you learn this as a child.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's what you knew, it's literally how you were brought up.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: It was your understanding of how to engage with people that you love or that you care about, or how you show your love, or that you care.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_00: So you can't blame yourself for that.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's just an opportunity to learn, become aware of it, change it, and grow from it.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_00: Because, like, literally, if you're a kid, you do not understand that shit is developing until you 20-something sitting on your therapist's couch and she is eating you the fuck up, talking about how you're codependent, and you're like, no, I'm just a people pleaser.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: What do you mean?
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: For my fellow custody kids out there, the kids who were split between two households.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure y'all know what it what I'm talking about, having to manage being the right kid in each house depending on where you are, making sure everything is good to go over here, and you're not leaving anything wrong for when you come back, and then you go over here and making sure you feel like they feel the same way, and not playing favoritisms and balancing the two as they mix, and maybe you're hearing this person or this parent talk about this parent, and you it's just very traumatizing.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_00: Speaking of trauma, it could be a trauma response.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_00: I am extremely hyper-vigilant.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_00: I wish I could turn this off, but my awareness of things is spidey senses and got shit on me.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I am so good at being aware of very slight changes.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_00: There was one time in college, my best friend had to disappear for a while while she took care of some business.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I didn't get to see her for a couple of months.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_00: But one day I come home to my dorm and I walk in, and it just feels something's off.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_00: Somebody been in here, and I'm trying to find out who.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_00: So I stand there and I'm looking around, like, nah, something feels weird.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_00: Everything is in the same place, but I just feel it in my bones.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_00: Somebody been in here.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I look off to the side, under the stack of books, there's a very small corner of a piece of paper sticking out.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I look and I pull it, and it is a note from my best friend saying that she was here.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_00: I still got the note.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I am very hyper-vigilant.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm always aware of some shit going on.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I know because of the work that I've done in therapy that that comes directly from, well, one environment.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: I grew up in Richmond, California.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_00: You gotta keep your head on a goddamn swivel.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_00: But two, mainly codependency.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_00: You have to be aware of everything, every move you make, everything that you say, every way in which you show up, you have to be aware of it.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_00: And then on the flip side, at my dad's house, I literally had to be aware of everything I did.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: I had to clean that house top to bottom.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: And my stepmom is half Korean, she wasn't playing that shit.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm talking about squeaky clean.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I had to make sure everything was right because if I didn't, I was in trouble.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: Well, eventually you take that into the world and you're looking at every single thing around you.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_00: So when it comes to people's emotions, it's like, you can't hide from me.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_00: You can't hide from me over the phone, you can't hide from me in a text.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like I am aware of everything.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_00: There'll be times my wife won't even say anything.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_00: I could just feel something's off.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, you okay?
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: She won't even be aware that something's off.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_00: But I know something's brewing, and then she'll sit with it and she'll realize that something is wrong.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_00: It serves me in certain ways, but certain ways it's like, damn, I it makes me sad because I know that comes from childhood and this codependency that I have.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like, this is probably the strongest aspect of codependency that is still alive within me today.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it it is it is what it is.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I don't know if I'll ever be able to get rid of that, but the hypervigilance absolutely comes from codependency.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_00: So, a part of these spidey senses of mine, I have done a lot of work to break my codependency.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, there's still work to be done, but I am nowhere near where I used to be.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: I was deep in my codependent bag, but today it shows up occasionally, but more often than not, my boundaries come first.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_00: My peace comes first because I spent years letting people walk all over me, using me for everything I had.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_00: And today, that ain't flying.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_00: So, how do we deconstruct our codependency?
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_00: How do we break the pattern?
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: Let me just say it ain't no quick fix, it's gonna take some time.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like all good things, anything worth having, anything that lasts, takes a long time to get, to build, to develop.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_00: So let me just put that out there before we even jump in.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_00: But start by noticing, like you literally can't change what you can't see.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_00: So be mindful of when you're saying yes to things, when you are giving yourself to people or opportunities or other beings, people, places, whatever.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_00: Be mindful of it.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_00: Are you saying yes because you really want to, or are you saying yes because you feel like you have to to make them feel better?
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_00: And if you still are kind of muddled in deciphering what is actually for me and what is actually my codependency, if you feel like if you said no, they would be upset about it.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_00: Is this because of historical context, or is this because something that you've told yourself?
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like, have you even put yourself in the opportunity to say no before to know how they'll respond?
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like, start start by noticing.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_00: Awareness is key.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_00: Practice the pause.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_00: The other day, I just immediately said yes to something.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_00: And usually I am better at my pause, but I said yes.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_00: And then a few minutes later, I was like, Oh, wait a minute.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_00: No, I actually don't want to do that.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, I shouldn't be doing this for you because you really don't deserve it.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so I took my pause after, but before you jump into a decision, take a pause, take a beat because you gotta get used to getting to know yourself and understanding what you want and understanding if the things that you want are because you want them or because you feel a need to do it because of your codependency or your people pleasing.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know how many more times I could say it, but get you a therapist, babe.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_00: Get you a therapist.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: I would not be in this seat today if it weren't for my therapist.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_00: There were so many things I had to unlearn, uncover, and at least start the journey of correcting.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_00: And that codependency is one because it is something that is so ingrained into our core beliefs, actions, how we move through life, how we show up, and that in turns turns into our behaviors.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_00: You're gonna need a therapist to help you identify it, or at least somebody with some insight, like someone who's been to therapy, like myself.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_00: But therapy, um, get you a therapist.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_00: They they can do some wonders.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_00: And if you've tried therapy and the therapist was not for you, don't give up.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_00: Because I've heard that too.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: Treat finding a therapist like you treat buying shoes.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_00: If you buy some shoes and they're too small, you ain't just gonna stop wearing shoes forever.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_00: No, you're gonna get you some shoes that fit, right?
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_00: Same thing for a therapist.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like, don't give up, get you a therapist.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_00: And once you finally start to say no, finally start to decline helping others, let people sit in their discomfort.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_00: Them being uncomfortable is not gonna kill them.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_00: They'll be okay.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_00: If you tell a person no, or if they have to do something on their own and it might be a little more difficult for them, they'll be alright.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_00: Because if they ain't comfortable, that means you're uncomfortable to make them feel better and you doing the thing for them don't impact your life at all.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_00: No, they'll be okay.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_00: Learn to let them be okay being uncomfortable because that's the only way that it helps you, like it's you desensitized and them so that they can start to make their own decisions and you can start to do the same.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_00: And let me be clear: the goal of breaking your codependency is not to stop caring about people, it's to start caring about yourself just as much as you care about everybody else.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_00: Because your mood, your emotions, your actions, your decisions are yours and theirs are theirs.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_00: And you deserve to make your own decisions based on how you feel and nobody else.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_00: So put in the work, break the cycle, and start living for yourself.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_00: Alright, y'all.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_00: Y'all know what time it is.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's time for I Say This With Love.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_00: As a reminder, if you want to get your submissions in for this segment, you would visit tinyurl.com slash AIGP advice, submit your information there, and I will read it during one of the episodes.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, I am 26 and I feel lost.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_00: I have no purpose in life, no goals.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_00: Work and leisure are just a blur.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_00: I quit my job.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I know.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_00: Because I couldn't take it anymore.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_00: As a kid, you have dreams about what will be, and now you see that it's nothing but misery and always taking care of responsibilities.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'm married and have pretty much everything you should have, but I lack any meaning in life.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_00: I DK what to do, but this is but this feeling is consuming me.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_00: I say this with love.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_00: I completely feel you on feeling like life is just taking care of responsibilities over and over and over and repeating yourself.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_00: I share that sentiment.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_00: I also get that things feel like they blur together and they feel like is shit gonna get any better?
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_00: Is there any excitement to life?
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_00: I get all of that.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_00: I wasn't 26 when I started having these feelings, but I was maybe like 29, 28 when I started going through this same cycle.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes it comes up today, but I have more of a grasp on it and understand that this feeling comes in waves.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_00: So I will say this there absolutely is a purpose in life.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_00: You are currently on the path that is helping you discover what that is.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_00: I did not think this podcast would be something that would be fulfilling to me, let's say two years ago, three years ago, five years ago, when I first heard that I should be doing it.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_00: But you get put in opportunities or places, or maybe something comes along and makes you see an opportunity that you never really considered before.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_00: And that just might be the thing that brings you so much joy.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_00: I know when I was stuck in that mundane cycle of work, home, sleep, work, home, sleep.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_00: And then you save it for the weekends, everything else you're supposed to squeeze in, but Sunday don't really count because you're worried about the week.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like it became very frustrating, very demoralizing.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_00: And so I had to stop living for the weekend.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_00: You gotta start doing things during the week, you gotta start breaking it up because I understand it's it's tough when you're tired, it's tough when you're overwhelmed, you don't want to be around nobody, you don't have the energy to go out.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_00: I get that, but that is literally the thing that changes your brain and makes you feel like you're doing more with your time because you quite literally are.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_00: If you just get stuck in this routine of work, home sleep for five days forever, and it's not school, so you don't have like summers off, so this is just continuing.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_00: If you don't find a way to break that up, you're going to burn yourself out.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_00: You're not gonna find any will or ambition or reason to even look for a purpose in life.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_00: And so, as difficult as it is, as much energy energy as I feel like it might take to get there, you have to put yourself out there and try things.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_00: Get out the house.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_00: If you work from home, break up your home days.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_00: Don't work late, don't get to work too early, like really get dressed and go to work.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_00: Go to your desk.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_00: I know that's something that I was up against because I was just waking up, checking my emails, getting to the desk, and it's like your life is all work, that is all you're doing.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_00: But you have to like get creative with your time.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_00: Well, also sounds like you don't have a job anymore.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, maybe you start looking for a job that I don't know what your circumstances is, but maybe you do something with a different shift so that you can have the days, so that you can do more.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_00: Or maybe you do a couple of part-time so that you can break up your days more.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_00: Whatever works best for you in your situation, but you have to start living more life, giving yourself more purpose so that you can feel that your life has meaning outside of work.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_00: Because regardless of if you don't do that, your life still does have meaning.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_00: You are literally in a relationship with a purpose or with a woman or person, partner who sees that your life is worth building with, you are a person worth being with forever.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_00: And so obviously, you must be pretty special to someone, and someone sees the greatness in you, you just gotta see it in yourself.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_00: And it's really hard to see that if you're caught in a rut where it seems like your output is solely for the sake of a job, which is solely for the sake of paying bills, you know?
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like when do you put yourself first?
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_00: When do you start to do for yourself?
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_00: Because it sounds like you're doing a lot for everyone else, so yeah, I know it's tough.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_00: I know it's tough, and I'm not discrediting any of your feelings because I understand, and I agree sometimes with the responsibilities thing, but from someone who had to claw themselves out of that hole, out of that darkness and that cloud of feeling like this shit is pointless and there's no reason I should be here anymore, and being on the other side of that, I'm telling you, your life has meaning.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_00: And there's a lot more you can do to make you feel better and to put you on the path that can show you your life has meaning.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I wish you all the best of luck.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_00: I hope, you know, whatever your purpose winds up being that you find it soon, or at least get aligned with what that purpose is, and it brings you lots of joy.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_00: And whoever you are, like if you're comfortable, email me.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_00: I would love to connect with you and just talk to you on a deeper level because I completely understand what you're going through, especially that married aspect.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_00: My depression hit in the middle of a great marriage when you think.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: You should feel fulfilled and feel good about your life, and it's like that kind of makes you feel worse because you feel like you should feel better, you know.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_00: So, anyway, I wish you well.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_00: Alright, y'all.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_00: That is all for today's episode.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_00: As a reminder, make sure y'all are following us on the socials.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_00: Make sure you hit us on the email if you got any inquiries or feedback.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_00: I say this with love submissions, hit the tiny URL link, and make sure you are following us on the Patreon, baby.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_00: Just$7 a month.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_00: And if you haven't done so already, we just dropped our first guest episode with So Lauren.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_00: Go check that out.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's a great conversation, and you don't want to miss it.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_00: But I appreciate y'all.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_00: And as always, I'm RJ.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_00: This is the Alive I Guess podcast, and I'll see y'all same time next week.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_00: I'm alive.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'm alive I guess.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_00: I'm alive, I guess.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_00: I'm alive, I guess.