Latest / The Fourcast / What's Donald Trump really up to with Gaza takeover plan?

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What's Donald Trump really up to with Gaza takeover plan? · The Fourcast

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Hello and welcome to the forecast.
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So Gaza Lago is the official US aspiration on the Middle East.
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Now Donald Trump says the US should take over Gaza and own it
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and turn it into the Riviera of the Middle East with most of its
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buildings destroyed and 90% of the population displaced.
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Who'd want to live there anyway, says the president.
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The Palestinians should go and live in Egypt or Jordan, and the
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countries in the region could build some nice towns for them
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where the ethnically cleansed could start again in a nice
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condo. Reaction has ranged from absurd
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to a serious violation of international law.
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But is this a serious proposal, a negotiating position or the
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dreams of a reality show star who's on the world stage with
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me? Our foreign affairs
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correspondents are come to Khamani and the Palestinian
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journalist Yusuf Hamash, who reported from inside Gaza for
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Channel 4 News from October 2023 and is now living here in
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Britain. So Yusuf, I mean, I have to
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start with your family, your friends, all the people you
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reported on there. You know why?
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Why not go and live in a nice condo in Egypt or Jordan?
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Now I think I was, I was in touch with my relatives and my
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family personally. I don't think they would like
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that when it's they're forced to, it's not an option.
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And even I could say yesterday night, Trump's speech has
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switched it the way people are thinking because Gaza's were
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really thinking too, that they really need a break and to
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reconstruct Gaza. Now no one want to leave.
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No, because we know we don't trust anyone anymore.
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But I mean, I mean, let let me take Trump's point of view for a
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second. I mean, you know, he's saying,
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look, I've seen the pictures, the place is flattened.
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It's powder. It's not livable, so why not go
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somewhere that is nice? We'll build you a nice town.
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You can have nice houses, you know.
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Why not? First of all, why not?
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We went to the root causes, why it's unlivable.
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And now when he was mentioning that was he's sitting to
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Netanyahu and he missed mentioned the total destruction
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of Gaza. He never asked well how it been
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destroyed, first of all. Second of all, Gazans want to be
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in Gaza for 15 months there and they resist and stayed within
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their small piece of land handling all these bombardments
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that human has to never witness and now they were going to leave
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because this is ambitious of the US I.
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Mean how? How are they taking it?
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I mean, are they, do they take it seriously?
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Do they think that is what he really wants to do?
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You know, listen, no one understand how Trump think,
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including Gazans. But trust me, this was an huge
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outrage news yesterday because Gazans were looking for the
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continue of the deal. The Gazans were looking for that
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meeting as a hope that Trump will push Netanyahu to continue
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that agreement and push to make Gaza a livable place again.
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We they were putting hope on that meeting and that surprise
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that they had that not only as Palestinians haven't been
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recognized as people there, there's two people somewhere
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else deciding the future of millions of people without
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including their interest in any way.
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So if you if Gazans handed 15 months under all of that bombs,
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do you think that they will obey?
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For Trump ambitious after he had a speech.
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It's not realistic option if you cannot go to the root causes.
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What's going on? We ignored the reality of 75 or
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more of occupation, Then you ignore the reality of the siege,
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then they ignore the reality of the destruction we have now.
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And then they ignore the reality that there is Palestinians.
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They have a voice and they need to share and contribute,
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determinating their own destiny. Secunda I mean, we, we shouldn't
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really be as surprised as everyone seems to be.
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I mean, this idea was floated quite openly by the first
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son-in-law a long time ago who talked about the possibility of
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Gaza, you know, as a Mediterranean resort.
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Yeah, talking up the, the, the beachfront property value of,
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of, of, of Gaza. Absolutely.
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In in fact, you know, is the Israeli right wing have been
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talking about this idea, as they term it, voluntary resettlement
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of Gaza for quite some time. I remember the man who's
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currently now serving as the Israeli ambassador to the UN,
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Danny Danon, talking about it not too long after October 7th
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and, and Israel's assault on Gaza began.
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You know, I was just in Israel a couple of weeks ago speaking to
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far right Israeli politicians and many of them had been
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lobbying Donald Trump, it seemed primarily because they wanted to
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resume the war in Gaza, they wanted to annex the West Bank.
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But looking at some of the language that they've been using
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and looking at the language that Donald Trump is now using, it
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really seems that some of those their their messages have been
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have been permeating through. For example, there's one MP from
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Bezel Smotrich's party that's a far right coalition partner of
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of Prime Minister Netanyahu, very influential, although
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fairly small. This, this MK is then known in
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Israel had been and spoken in in Mar a Lago before.
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And he told us he said, look, Trump wants to see a change in
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the Middle East. He realises these are his words
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that you can't you can't do the same Thai policy again and again
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and again. That leads to an endless cycle
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of violence. We need to be disruptive.
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And that's very similar to the kind of language being put out
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in White House statements. And, and if you don't have a
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sort of a stake in the fight, I mean, there is a sort of a logic
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that you can see will play with supporters of Donald Trump in
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America who don't really know anything about the Middle East,
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who'll say, well, it's destroyed.
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There's a cycle of violence. They keep destroying it.
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Why not just kind of like, create a new Palestinian
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homeland somewhere else in someone else's country?
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Yeah, I mean, potentially. I mean, it certainly doesn't go.
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You know, Trump has always talked about not wanting to
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spend money on in the Middle East or abroad or getting
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involved in other people's conflict.
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So it goes against that grain, which is something that he sold
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to his his domestic supporters. But yes, I mean, he's trying to
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package this up in a benevolent form saying, well, you know, who
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would want to go back there? Why would?
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Why would anyone want to? Go back there.
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I would want to go back there. Exactly.
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And that's the that's the key difference.
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He's who is who is who is he to decide?
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For on our behalf, as millions of Palestinians, I was
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questioning the reality. I was looking for social media,
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people who are stucked in Egypt, who left for medical treatment
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or any or people like me to flip for the safety of my children.
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We're looking, we we have the right, we are looking when from
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the annex of the deal we are going back to Gaza.
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Now we are surprised that not we are not even included in that
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narrative at all. And they're looking about to
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allocating Gazans and changing the homeland.
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How, when, how, how on earth it's acceptable?
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And, and Yousef, it's interesting to me because we
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were talking just a few days ago when the Rafa border crossing
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with Egypt opened up about what are people's attitudes, how many
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people might want to leave, at least temporarily?
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And, and at that stage, if I, if I'm correct.
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And remember you were saying that a lot of people for a
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period would be interested in trying to get out, trying to
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have a break, trying to rebuild some of their personal lives
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whilst reconstruction occurs. But it seems like there's been a
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real shift prompted by these comments by by.
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The That's what I mentioned since yesterday when Natalie
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Trump said that he he shifted people's minds.
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And and now, presumably, nobody will will go.
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They'll be they'll be scared that they won't be allowed back.
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That's that's an I live an example I left for the safety of
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my children. Then on on the perspective that
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if war will end, then I'll come back, settle down, reconstruct
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my house. And now I'm facing a reality
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that I'm not part of anyone's equation.
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And even my own people from their Indigenous place, they are
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just being rooted. The, the trouble is, you know,
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with, with, as with anything Trump says, you can't just take
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it on face value. It's part of some other deal or
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negotiation that he's thinking of.
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The trouble I have with this is that it's quite hard to work out
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what what he thinks. This negotiating position puts
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him in a position to try and. Deliver exactly.
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I think you've hit it on the head there, Chris.
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I mean you look at the tactics that he's used in talking about
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tariffs with with Mexico and Canada.
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It's all been about negotiation previously when he's kind of
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threatened to to walk out of NATO, it's because he wants
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member states to up their defence spending.
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So it's he's been making outlandish on the face of it
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kind of very worrying statement. But behind it, there's a kind of
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more realistic, tangible aim that he's trying to coerce
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someone into getting what that that seems to be quite real
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possible, an explanation for what's happening now because
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there's been no explanation as to how the US taking over Gaza
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would work, how much money it would it would cost, what you
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would do with the population who doesn't want to leave.
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You know, it doesn't seem realistic.
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But who is he trying to coerce now and how and to what end?
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I mean, 11 possibility could be that, you know, a big focus for
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Trump and for the Israelis is normalization, as it's called,
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between Israel and Saudi Arabia, some kind of grand historic deal
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where Saudi Arabia, as the kind of bastion of the Arab world,
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grants recognition to the Israeli state.
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Now the Saudis are saying that's only going to happen if there is
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a commitment to the creation of a Palestinian state.
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They've said that again in the early hours of the morning,
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shortly after Trump's statement, in fact.
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I mean, not just the commitments, in fact, I mean, on
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Channel 4 News, Prince Turkey said, you know, there has to be
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a Palestinian state, right? You know it's not.
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It's not. Just not enough commitments.
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We have United Nations decisions and we have all of that as a
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commitment also. So, so, so could this be a way
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of trying to shift the goal posts on that deal?
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Could this be an attempt for, for Trump to say, well,
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actually, we'll do to try and coerce the Saudis and the Arab
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world into this normalization deal by saying, OK, we'll take
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this prospect of mass force deportation effectively off the
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table in exchange for a normal realization, but not in exchange
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for a palace, the creation of a palace.
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And you say, because you, you look at what happened in 2020 in
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the Trump's first term, he, he came up with this deal of the
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century solution, right? And the, and, and, and that was,
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that would have seen the annexation of parts of the
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occupied West Bank by, by Israel, recognizing the Israeli
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settlements that have that have been built there by the
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Americans. Now that was shelved in exchange
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for the Abraham Accords for a number of Arab countries,
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particularly the UAE, granting recognition and forming ties
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with Israel. How did the UAE sell that?
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They sold that as we are doing this deal not out of our own
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economic self-interest, but because we are preventing the
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annexation of the West Bank, IE we are doing it with the
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interests of the Palestinians in mind.
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So perhaps there's a kind of similar player, but.
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The question, the question with that is, is, is it a credible
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threat? You know, if you're sitting in
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Riyadh or any of the the middle of the East regions, you know,
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capitals, when Trump says, well, we could always just take it
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over and occupy it with American troops.
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Do they think that is a credible position for the United States
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to take that they would be actually scared of?
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Or do they go, well, you know, do your best.
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You'll you'll, you'll have international law against you.
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You'll have the UN against you. You'll have every militant group
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in the Middle East against you. You'll be creating a war.
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You'll be making Americans targets all over the world.
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You know you're not really going to do that.
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Quite possible, I mean, but at the same time, people are afraid
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of Donald Trump and afraid to stand up to, to to Donald Trump.
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Especially Arabs, man, Yeah, you cannot rely on the Arabs because
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they are not part of the equation itself.
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They are not part of when, when, when you see Trump saying that
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loudly, proudly calling for ethnic cleansing for part of the
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Arabs group, considers part of the Arab groups.
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And you have only these comments.
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We cannot rely on the Arabs because listen, this is a long
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term conflict, war. What occupation call it whatever
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you call it, where were the Arab positions since over 8 years?
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Let's go back since October 7th started.
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What was what was the Arab position?
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Even people, if you look for the Egyptian officer, I'm not going
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to go in specific country, but with the Arab world in general,
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they are not calling for not ethnically cleansing of the
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Palestinians. No, you somehow you feel it that
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we don't want Palestinians. So we became just an issue and
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why we are as Palestinians, we are not part of determining our
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destiny. Why it's just the Americans and
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the Israelis deciding and they are the issues.
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Like we will talk with you as we convince Jordan Egypt will use
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our tools against Saudi Arabia. Whatever they have, they have
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the influence as Americans of the whole the Middle East.
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But why there is no non a Palestinian involved?
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Why is just Arab American Israelis?
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Why we have been dehumanized by the Israelis and then by the
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entire world? Complicity on what's going on
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since 15 months and now we have been dehumanized again not to be
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part of determining our future and our future, the future of
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our children. This is insane.
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I should just say from his point of view, I mean, you know,
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obviously everyone is talking about his ethnic cleansing, but
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from his point of view, it's voluntary.
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It's, you know, he raises the idea of sort of building 5 or 6
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or maybe 8 or 9 or 10 or 12 nice towns and saying to people, why
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don't you go and live there? And then they all go
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voluntarily. And if we say we do, that's.
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Sort of weird dream which is not quite ethnic cleansing in his
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mind because he's not forcing them.
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But I mean in in reality, no one really sees it.
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No one else sees it. That way, because the reality is
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that he has an outline what happens for those people who
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want to stay. And you're talking about
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2,000,000. So I mean even if 500,000 people
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decided actually I will be better off out of this mess and
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you know which? Most likely would happen.
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Which is quite. Some people say yeah.
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You know, 1,000,000 of the population and and you know,
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some of the remarks yesterday seemed to be off the talking
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about, you know, the world's people living there.
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Then next minute there would also be some Palestinians, which
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Palestinians? I mean, you know, part of it was
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clearly very deliberate and thought out compared to the, you
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know, by within the paradigms of Trump's world.
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Part of it was still kind of off the cuff riffing.
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I mean, you're raising one of the problems, which is that
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we've got to this point of a fragile ceasefire without any
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real change in, you know, a Palestinian leadership the rest
14:31
of the world is prepared to deal with.
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Palestinian position is really straightforward.
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You know, you have the the Palestinian Authority.
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They are the government of the Palestinian people.
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But but even that is. Not I think one of the main
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issues that we need to look for as Palestinians is the one of
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the main issue we are facing is we don't have a decent
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leadership to represent us all across the history when we have
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2006, the fragile system that we had as Palestinians because of
14:59
the BA corruption, we people wanted a real change and that's
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why Palestinians elected Hamas. And then no, you cannot choose.
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We all you all you have the right to choose.
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But what we picked for you, that's what we didn't, we didn't
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understand as Palestinians. And now we are in a really,
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really vulnerable situation as Palestinians who we don't have
15:21
anyone to represent us. PA is is useless body.
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Hamas driven us to all of this and we have the Arab world, not
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we really as Palestinians. And that's when you say that
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that that is the widespread view of everyone, you know, in Gaza.
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Because I mean, the the other thing that this raises is, is
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the whole question of, you know, sort of news management and what
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was really going on in this conversation between Netanyahu
15:49
and Trump. Because obviously, as you say,
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what, what, what's much of the world was wondering was what,
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what would emerge from this in terms of the next phase of the
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ceasefire and the release of the rest of the hostages and all
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normalization in, in, in Gaza. And we, we haven't had anything
16:07
on that because it's been totally blown out of the water
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by this announcement on America taking over Gaza.
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So, So what? What does this tell us about
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Israel's position and American support going into this next
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phase of negotiations? Well, I think, you know, the
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consensus had been that Donald Trump and his team wanted to see
16:26
this ceasefire deal extended and they wanted it to go beyond this
16:30
first stage into the second stage where you have a longer
16:32
lasting ceasefire. You have the release of the
16:34
remaining Israeli hostages. That still seems to be Donald
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Trump's position. Netanyahu yesterday, last night,
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making clear that he is still quite open to the idea of
16:46
resuming the war, talking about having three aims, the release
16:49
of the hostages, yes, but still continuing to talk about the
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elimination and destruction of Hamas, whatever that might mean.
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We've seen after 15 months of terrible destruction in Gaza
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that Hamas are still standing. We've seen that in the videos of
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how they put their fighters on parade when they, when they
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release the, the, the, the hostages for for example.
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And so I think there's there's there's a lack of clarity as to
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whether there is a divergent of views between Netanyahu and
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Donald Trump about reaching that second stage that's now been
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somewhat overtaken by this huge, I mean, it was.
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Conversation yesterday because I mean, that's Yahoo.
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Look like the cat had got the cream.
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Well, he was because he was, he was, he was listening to
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everything that that Trump was saying about, about taking over,
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taking over Gaza and, and pushing out the population.
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Laughing, he was he was more than listening.
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He was, he was, he was enjoying. But the I mean, what that
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statement does to Netanyahu also helps him with a political
17:47
problem that he's got within his own government because one of
17:50
his far right allies, Smotchich, another one that already left
17:54
the government when he entered the the ceasefire deal, Ben
17:56
Gavir. Smotchich had said if we don't
17:59
go resume the war at the end of phase one of the ceasefire,
18:03
which will be kind of towards the end of February, we're going
18:05
to leave your government. That means his government would
18:07
be brought down. Now with this statement by by
18:11
Trump about taking up the Gaza, I mean the Israeli right?
18:14
For them, this is a dream come true.
18:15
They can't believe that they would get a statement like this.
18:18
They're ecstatic. And so I think it will help it,
18:23
it could help if Netanyahu wants to go, go to the second phase of
18:27
the ceasefire deal, it would help him.
18:29
What it does to Hamas, I think is a, is a bigger question.
18:31
I mean, we've seen a statement from them saying that Trump's
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comments are ridiculous. They're absurd.
18:36
Not necessarily seemingly from what I've seen referencing the
18:41
impact on a on a ceasefire deal. But you know.
18:44
It's referring on that I don't think Hamas in an opposition to
18:47
influence anything of what's going on already they are they
18:51
lost every influence they have all what they had is continuing
18:54
the deal from one side which the deal we are keep referring to
18:57
who it's not even completed yet. Not all the annexes of the deal.
19:01
All what changed since the announced of the ceasefire until
19:04
now is just the bomb stopped. But on the other hand, the death
19:07
rate, the spread of disease that people who are living in the
19:11
most vulnerable situations in the winter now who are looking
19:16
for part of the deal was allowing tents, shelter for
19:20
people caravans and nothing have of their not less than 10% of
19:24
the number. So nothing changed with and if
19:27
they want to come back to the war for what there is, it's a
19:31
land of destruction. It's a land of rubble.
19:33
There is nothing the Israelis can do unless we will all be
19:36
watching just massacre after massacre on a live TV and we
19:42
will consider it a show after that.
19:43
Because 15 of months of continuous bombardment and
19:47
killing civilians wasn't enough to to convince the world that
19:53
something needs to change and to stop what's going on.
19:56
We're in this strange situation where we've got this fantastical
19:59
bizarre and as you know Yousef is is alluding to to, you know,
20:03
the vast majority of Palestinians deeply offensive
20:06
idea being put on the table. But they take the the idea that
20:09
that the rest of the international community, that
20:11
the Arab world that European countries want to want to put
20:14
forward seems much more real in in many ways much more realistic
20:18
and much simpler, which is that the Palestinians.
20:19
Syrian authority need to be the one who are in charge of Gaza
20:24
in, in the future. They're already in charge of,
20:26
of, of the West Bank and there needs to be progress on some
20:29
kind of, of discussion towards a 2 state solution.
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I mean, the, the one thing I, I have been wondering is whether
20:36
as well as perhaps this being an attempt to coerce Arab states,
20:41
these kind of statements are an attempt to coerce Hamas.
20:44
We, we know that Israeli officials want possibly to, to
20:49
exile the Hamas leadership out of Gaza in a way that we saw the
20:53
PLO pushed out of Beirut in the 1980s, for example.
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You know, could this be some kind of attempt to, to, to, to
21:03
set threaten Hamas and say, well, if you don't accept that,
21:06
then this entire territory is going to be depopulated.
21:10
But the fact that we're scrabbling around trying to kind
21:12
of rationalise what the underlying intention of this
21:16
bizarre statement is, is, is, is, you know, not a great
21:19
position for, for, for, for us or anyone, anyone to be in.
21:22
And from from what I can see, you know, diplomats right across
21:25
the world are in the same position right now trying to
21:28
trying to get up to speed and think what is really going on.
21:30
So it's a one scenario from what you're saying is that the the
21:34
the 1.8 million people or however many people are
21:38
currently in Gaza going to Egypt and Jordan could come right down
21:42
to just Hamas. If you look at what the Israelis
21:45
position is, the Israeli position is, and Netanyahu was
21:48
talking about this yesterday as well, saying we want to we want
21:51
to ensure that Gaza never becomes a threat again, that
21:54
Hamas is not in charge. And they have put out through
21:59
kind of sources and unnamed officials throughout the war,
22:02
the prospect of exiling the the Hamas leadership.
22:05
That it, it didn't seem to me Youssef will have a better
22:07
insight than than me about this, that Hamas would ever go for
22:10
that. That's their raison d'etre to be
22:13
a, a, a, a, a resistance group. But perhaps this could be some
22:17
some form of coercion against them to say that if you don't
22:22
leave, then you're going to be complicit within this massive
22:26
depopulation of OK. And let's and let's say and
22:29
let's say they agreed and suddenly we don't have Hamas and
22:31
they all left Gaza and you don't have an option for a future for
22:34
Gazans. You'll have another form of
22:35
Hamas because you are not going to the root causes of the issue,
22:39
which is incubation and a siege. And you need then the
22:43
Palestinian goes from a fragile vulnerable system into away
22:48
accepted on international community but allowed them to
22:50
contribute on their own future. Otherwise you will always have
22:55
these. Forms OK, so so so if if from
22:57
the Palestinian point of view, you know, you have no
22:59
representation, you have no leadership, you know both the PA
23:03
and the and the Hamas are widely regarded as, you know, weakened
23:08
and not serving their purpose. What what is, you know, the
23:14
future that Palestinians would like?
23:16
What is the leadership they would like and what is the route
23:18
to getting there? My perspective as Palestinian
23:21
here is that this generation need to clean the mess, that
23:25
hoping that the coming generation could clean something
23:28
because world is aware about what's going on now more than
23:31
ever. And I think it's an ethical,
23:34
moral responsibility on the planet itself to stop an ethnic
23:39
cleansing. Otherwise, if if it was, if it
23:43
happens there, this is exceeding every red line human history
23:45
have ever witnessed. It would be allowed somewhere
23:47
else. This is a risk not for all
23:49
Palestinians all only this is for the morals that the planet
23:53
have. If you allow it once, it will be
23:55
allowed again and again and again.
23:57
So Palestinians need a future. We always compromise, we always
24:02
compromise. They accept 22% of the state
24:06
after my Oslo accord and we never achieved it.
24:09
We have been facing all of this violence cycle of violence and
24:15
when we had a work permit to work in Israel directly when
24:18
people were by thousands start to work and develop and start
24:21
alive. History didn't start on October
24:25
7th. There is.
24:26
We need to look for an overall vision for the Palestinians, to
24:30
give them first right of representation.
24:33
If you're gonna, if you don't like Hamas, it's fine.
24:36
As Palestinians, we have plenty of people.
24:37
Just allow us. Just give us the right to
24:40
participate and contribute in our narrative and in our future.
24:44
If you set aside the sort of Riviera of the Middle East
24:46
notion for a moment, what what is going on in terms of
24:49
discussions about rebuilding? Well, look, I mean the scale of
24:53
the destruction, I mean, it's hard to it's hard for anyone
24:56
outside like my like myself to, to, to fathom the UN talks about
25:00
50 million tons of rubble. They say that just to clear that
25:04
rubble is going to take around 2121 years.
25:08
So that's why you have figures like Trump and Witkoff who come
25:12
from his his Middle East envoy, who real?
25:15
Estate. Factions exactly talking about,
25:17
you know, these, this, this area being a demolition site and
25:21
being, you know, in the, in their words, kind of basically
25:24
uninhabitable. I mean, there it's definitely a
25:26
massive, massive challenge to to, to, to rebuild and
25:30
reconstruct and Arab countries. The people who likely to put in
25:34
the money like Saudis and the Emiratis.
25:36
You know, one, I think they want to, they are willing to put the
25:40
money there, but they want to see some kind of political
25:44
progress as part of that towards a Palestinian state.
25:47
And they they also, I suspect, want some kind of assurance that
25:52
their their investment is not going to be literally blown up
25:55
in another few. Years, which is exactly what
25:57
Donald Trump said. What happened last night, He
25:59
said. It will definitely happen again
26:01
if people go back and just rebuild as as they were.
26:04
So you, you, you take them out from the place, and so change
26:07
the people of the land. I I would I would anticipate
26:11
that they want some kind of political assurance that Hamas
26:13
will no longer be the dominant form of in politics there.
26:17
I mean, the problem is without a as Yousef as outlet, unless you
26:21
give the Palestinian, Palestinian people the the
26:24
prospect of a viable future, whether or not Hamas exist, the
26:29
idea of armed resistance to the Israelis as Palestinians would
26:33
see it will still continue to be a, a, you know, a popular form
26:38
of thinking. And you know, you can see that
26:41
in the West Bank as well. I mean, interestingly, yesterday
26:44
Donald Trump was asked what do you think about the possibility
26:47
of Israel annexing the West Bank?
26:49
And he gave quite a specific answer, said, you know, that's
26:51
something one thing that we're looking at and I'm going to tell
26:53
you in four weeks time and you know, going into these
26:56
negotiations, a lot of people weren't necessarily thinking
27:00
that we were going to, he was going to come out with a big
27:01
statement necessarily on, on, on, on Gaza.
27:04
They did, he said. People like the idea.
27:06
Well, I think when he said people like the idea, I, I think
27:09
he means, I, I assume he's meaning the Israeli settlers
27:12
who, who have been lobbying hard and visiting him in Mar a Lago
27:15
and, and proposing it. Because of course, yes, the rest
27:21
of the international community would, would be extremely,
27:24
extremely worried by it. But you know, coming back to, to
27:26
phase two, I think, you know, this definitely does throw
27:31
things into flux because for Hamas, all of a sudden, if you
27:36
think that, you know, this entire territory is going to be
27:39
depopulated, you're going to be exiled.
27:41
Do you want to give away, as you would see it, your only
27:43
remaining leverage, which is the 60 odd or 70 odd Israeli
27:48
hostages that you're still holding onto?
27:51
But you know, I think as Yousef has said, fundamentally the ball
27:54
is in Israel's court right now. They're the dominant force.
27:57
And it's for net. It's whether Netanyahu decides
28:01
that he wants to, to, to resume the war or not, whether how much
28:05
pressure Trump and Witkoff are going to exert on him about
28:09
whether or not to resume the war.
28:10
I mean, because so far Trump has indicated he, he doesn't want
28:13
that bombing to, to, to, to, to restart.
28:16
But at the same time, if it doesn't restart, how is, how is
28:20
Netanyahu going to complete his gate?
28:22
His aim of eliminating Hamas as a, as a, as a governing
28:26
authority there? That fundamental disconnect,
28:29
which is one of the main reasons why there was no ceasefire for
28:32
for, you know, 8-9 months after President Biden first outlined
28:37
the terms of the deal that has now been agreed.
28:39
You know, that fundamental disconnect between Israel
28:43
wanting to eliminate Hamas and Hamas wanting to remain in Gaza
28:49
as an authority but have an end to the war.
28:51
That disconnect still still stands.
28:52
And that disconnect was always going to come to a head at the
28:56
at the end of this phase, first phase of the ceasefire deal.
28:59
Is is there, Is there at least a way of seeing it as vaguely
29:02
positive that he's puts Gaza back centre stage on the agenda?
29:08
Unfortunately, if we are, there was no direct essential coverage
29:14
of reconstructing Gaza at the initial point.
29:17
What he's saying is the only option for Gaza is because it's
29:22
unlivable place again. What changed after announced of
29:26
ceasefire is that the bomb stopped but the death rate
29:29
didn't change. We have over 15,000 dead body.
29:32
We cannot recover it from under the rubble.
29:36
AIDS not sufficient. Shelter aid items are not
29:40
sufficient. So what are the options?
29:42
Yes, if you give it to the options of people who are in the
29:45
most vulnerable situations, they will take it as an option
29:48
voluntarily. But when they have it, when
29:51
they, when they hear it, have been called for it proudly, No,
29:55
definitely they won't agree on that.
29:56
But again, it's realistic. If they didn't allow
29:59
reconstructing Gaza, then what is the option for Gazans?
30:04
Then what is the next? If you don't like OK, you reduce
30:07
the military power of the military power of Hamas and left
30:11
2 million people living on on a rubble, over 50 million tons of
30:14
rubble. What you're expecting next?
30:16
If you are looking for what's going to happen next outside and
30:19
what happens next to the American policy or what happens
30:22
next or from the Israelis or the West, what happens next for
30:25
Gazans and how they will act. Well, let's see what happens
30:29
next. And let's also see where look,
30:31
you know, key things to look out for.
30:33
There's going to be some other big visitors coming to the White
30:36
House soon. King Abdullah of Jordan,
30:37
President Sisi, the man in charge of Egypt, they're going
30:42
to be visiting soon. Trump insists that they're going
30:44
to agree to his plans of, of taking, you know, Palestinians
30:48
from Gaza. They've said that they won't,
30:51
you know, don't think anyone else thinks they will.
30:53
But let's I think after those meetings we'll get a better
30:57
indication of what is Trump's actual intent here, What are his
31:03
his more precise goals in terms of Middle East policy?
31:07
Right. Well, let's see where Gaza Lago
31:10
goes as an idea next. Thank you both very much indeed.
31:12
Thank you. And that's it for this edition
31:14
of the Forecast. Until next time, bye bye.