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Sodium Bicarbonate for Endurance Athletes: Is It Worth It? · The Endurance Athlete Journey

• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome everyone to the Endurance Athlete Journey Podcast.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Coach Justin.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'm here with Coach Katie.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: And this is episode 131.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: And today's topic is sodium bicarbonate.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're old school, you remember that box of Armand Hammer baking soda that would be in the back of your refrigerator, absorbing all the odors and smells that are in the fridge.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: Well, now we are starting to see athletes that are actually consuming this product as a way to enhance performance.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: So we just thought that Katie would kind of chime in on what are her thoughts are and the nutritional influence that this has.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: How does it contribute to performance?
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: And what are the costs and benefits in terms of uh risk versus reward on the consumption of this particular product?
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to be completely honest with you.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: I I don't really know a whole lot about this.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: This is the first time I've even heard of people taking this, and it really threw me for a loop as to, you know, You're like, what?
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: What are people taking?
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: I mean I just I don't get it.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: I don't, I don't I just it's okay.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: We'll dive in.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm like, let's just I'm just I'm just gonna turn the Katie's gonna pull this episode a little bit and I'll chime in uh where um I I just either have additional questions or if I just see if I just hear something that is just mind-bending, uh that I just need some additional questions.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: In this episode of sodium bicarbonate, what are the costs and benefits and why are people taking this thing?
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: So Katie, I'm gonna turn it over to you.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: So let's go ahead and we'll we'll pull this train down the tracks and uh let's get started.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think most some people might be like, uh sorry if there's background noise.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: But um, some people might be like, what is sodium bicarb?
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it is essentially it's baking soda.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: So you probably do.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's either in your fridge, like Justin said, hanging out in the background, in the back there, you know, absorbing different smells or whatever, or it's um something we use for baking.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: So I commonly use it for baking, you know, cookies or like muffins or something like that.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: So that is essentially um what it is, but it is but we'll talk a little bit more about how it's used or what it's doing as well.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: So essentially, just a just a quick kind of overview is sodium bicarbonate, it it lowers the acidity of things.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: And we'll talk about what it's what it how it's acting a little bit more, but it's a chemical like acid base um reaction that it that's kind of neutralizing acid the acidity of things, essentially.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so where's commonly been used, where I've seen it commonly used, and you know, we think of it as terms of like baked goods, but it's also used commonly in the clinical setting.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: So in the hospital, which I have a little bit of a clinical background as well.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: So the way I've seen it used is when somebody has some sort of metabolic acidosis, which commonly happens in diabetic ketoacidosis where somebody is having really high uh amounts of ketones, which are very acidic, or kidney disease where people aren't filtrating out certain acidic things that need to be generally filtered out and they have some sort of kidney failure issue, or there's just uh tons of other things that can kind of happen.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: Sepsis is another one.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: They'll actually drip in sodium bicarb through the IV to neutralize that acidity.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's where I've seen it before.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think then what's kind of happened, and it's actually been around a little while with the athletic community.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_01: I just think I've been hearing a lot more about it recently because I've been watching videos, and I think there's certain um companies that have kind of capitalized on it a little bit to like make it maybe a little bit easier to use because historically it's been really hard to consume uh, you know, orally.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: So there's some things kind of happening with it that that are just making it a little bit easier for athletes to get a hold of.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_01: But essentially, I think the background of it is people were like, oh, this is helping in these situations where there's acidity.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: How about during exercise, where we do have also some level of acidity happening?
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: And that's kind of partly you have these metabolic byproducts with exercise that are causing more of an acidic environment.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: How are how can we neutralize that maybe using sodium bicarbs?
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: So that's kind of where the thought process came in.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_01: And then, you know, they started, I think people just started tinkering using baking soda, you know, maybe before workouts.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: And and then there is actually some some research behind it as well, surprisingly.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: They've researched this a little bit.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: But um the thought process behind it is good because if you think about it, if you can lower some of those metabolic byproducts that maybe cause the acidity in our muscles, we can um then maybe exercise or push the pace a little bit longer and therefore maybe be able to go faster for longer and win the race or whatever we're trying to do.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: So if you think about the actual mechanism or the thought behind it, it's it's actually makes some sense.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I think the way I would think about it is like it's usually during exercise lasting 30 seconds to 12 minutes is where it seems to be the most effective or where the research really is.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um so mostly sprinting anything between like a 200-meter sprint to maybe I'm thinking what's 12 minutes, two mile, you know, two mile race or three miles if you're really fast.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: So something in that um ballpark of like time that it really seems to be the most helpful for.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um but essentially what's happening is your muscles are producing these hydrogen ions alongside the lactate.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: So it's one thing I really want to make sure I emphasize here is we talk about lactat acid, but it's it's it's sort of that, but it's more the and and lactate itself isn't necessarily like a bad thing.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: So I know we've mentioned that before.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: We don't want to be like, oh, it's the accumulation.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's when you go into like past maybe, because this is really those time frames are kind of really past that like lactate threshold.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's when you're really pushing beyond that a little bit that you're really having this extreme accumulation of lactate.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: But it's the hydrogen ions that we kind of have alongside lactate that is the biggest issue.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: And basically that bicarbonate or that uh baking soda acts like a sponge.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: You can think of it that way.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: And it's kind of helping neutralize those hydrogen ions and um then therefore neutralize a little bit of that acid acidity and are uh reducing some of that muscle muscular fatigue.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: So that's kind of essentially the gist of it.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I don't know if you have any thoughts so far from what I've had to say, but we could dive more into it.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I guess my my thoughts so far is that um so if it's for bouts of efforts that range anywhere from you said what twelve you said twelve seconds or what was it?
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like something up to like twelve minutes.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, basically.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, up to twelve minutes.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um and if it neutralizes the accumulation of acid um from from you know efforts, I could see then how it would be beneficial for short bouts of effort, like you were saying, up to 12 minutes, or in terms of extremely long uh durations of effort.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_00: So anything that would be kind of like the ultra, the ultra distance.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: But the the thing that I would that I would say is because those types of efforts tend to come in stages.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I would say that you know, if you're out there running an ultra marathon or you know, these hundred mile races and things, you do those in stages.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: So I could see where at one particular point in time you would start the consumption of that particular product in order to neutralize the acidity that has accumulated up until then.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's not something that you preload, like you know, you you've worked with me a lot in terms of, you know, hey, we want to eat a little bit before we work out, right?
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: I want to prime the engine with carbohydrates.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: This doesn't seem to be a uh uh effective uh tool for longer effort, so it has to be done in stages.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_01: Right, yeah.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: So the so the shorter bouts, yeah, you would preload it because it does take a little bit for it to get absorbed and sort of utilized, I suppose.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: So typically we'll talk about dosing and kind of go through like how somebody might go through figuring this out for themselves, but an hour or minimum an hour up to like I'd say two hours before, sometimes three to to get that, you know.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're gonna do a track workout or like a race that's short, I mean I would even argue like a 5k maybe you'd benefit, even though it's really more beneficial for like those shorter distances.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like you might still get some benefit from a 5k, but um for that sort of race, yes, you would preload.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: But the question is like it's not like you can take it three hours, two hours before, and it's gonna like stay in your system for a extended period of time.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: So there's like so people doing that, you know, when I've seen it where people kind of preload like that and then they do a long duration race, they'd have to almost take it again during the race at some point in order to get the benefit from it.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: Otherwise, it's kind of been the body's utilized, it's it's done its magic, right?
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we've all you I've used sodium bicarbon.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um I've done experiments where I've taken it, I don't know, like science experiments, so to speak, where you take the baking soda and you add it to something and it kind of spans it.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: You get this like they it kind of does, if you mix it with the right things, it kind of has a chemical reaction where it kind of makes spans.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: I think people kind of use it for um experiments where they're trying to, you know, if you have like a volcano, because it that's what it's the it's causing basically um gas, I suppose.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like it like it's um there's like a chemical reaction that's happening.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: This is why we have to be kind of careful with it because it can have some GI side effects.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: But it's uh and that's how it's working in in baking products too.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's kind of expanding.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: There's like um gas that is producing it and it's causing the the baking product to rise as it's cooking, and then you get like a muffin out of.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: So you start with dough, which is it's condensed and then it becomes it expands and bakes and becomes a baked product, right?
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: So um it it only works for so long.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like it it generally it only works and then it's done.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's not like it's gonna continue to be effective.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: So you'd have to take it again, and I think that's the problem though that it comes to the longer distance races, which is what we're really talking about.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's our podcast is the endurance athlete, right?
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think what we really need to talk about today is how is this gonna be most effective for our endurance athletes?
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: And is it even worth trying?
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: Is it worth the effort of taking it during because we'll talk about dosing, and once people kind of conceptualize the dosing part of it, I think they'll start to realize why it might be a little bit of an issue.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's not like you're just taking a little bit and it's maybe I don't know.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't I I guess my question would be, and this is something I'm not even sure is fully worked out, is if you preload a bunch of it and it's effective two hours later, what if you just like you know, the IV drip, but you just take a little bit in at a time throughout your race?
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm not sure.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I've ever I've never done that.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but there are some gels, we'll talk about some different products that are kind of trying to add it into the gel formulation.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: So we could be seeing more of that in the future where there's more sort of products that are now adding these types of things in.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: And what are some of the potential risks that there may be to doing that too?
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: Because I don't think it's always there's an always benefit.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: Some of this stuff when we're tinkering, especially with pH levels, can be sometimes probable problematic too.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's worth uh we'll we'll talk about that in more detail.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: But I hope that kind of um answers that question a little bit.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think too, it may be helpful to kind of review a little bit, like, well, I don't know if we want to talk a little bit more about the actual fatigue during high-intensity exercise, because it's not just acidity, it's more than that.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: And so this is only kind of working at one problem, I suppose, or one part of this.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: There's other things that are gonna cause us to slow down.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: So it's not like you take the sodium bicarbonal you're able to go on and be at this really high, like extremely fast pace forever, right?
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's only working, it's only working on one issue, if that makes sense.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so um just some other things that can happen that maybe um also part of part of that slowing down or that fatigue is the uh accumulation of inorganic phosphate, which is coming from the rapid breakdown of ATP.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: So when we're rap running really fast, we there's a very rapid breakdown of that ATP because that's basically our cellular energy.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: That's the the form of energy that is our cells are using.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like we have fat and protein and carbs, and the energy from those things that we're eating gets essentially eventually like down to the very basic form of ATP, and that's being broken down.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: But in that process, what especially when we can't rapidly regenerate ATP because we're going so fast, there's a lot of that phosphate that's being that's starting to accumulate.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: There's also sometimes potassium imbalances that start to occur just because potassium is being used for the contraction process of our cells, and um just that's also being maybe wrap used rapidly, and it's it's start that there's like a little bit of an imbalance happening there.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: And then we also could be depleting glycogen, which maybe not so much in these really quick, fast workouts.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: This is more like our more slow duration, like endurance efforts.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then the central nervous system as well.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: So we have that fatigue that we're starting to get from that central nervous system.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's a lot that we're asking our body to do, and we do get some fatigue there too.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: So those are some of those maybe can there's maybe an acidic piece too, but for the most part, those are also things that are starting to cause fatigue.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: So the sodium bicarb is only helping with one sort of a piece of that, but it's not going to allow you to go on forever at your 5k or run a 5k at your 3K pace.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's not really going to have that sort of profound effect because you it's only going to help a little bit.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: So they will talk about the benefits too.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry, it's kind of like that.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: So from what I've sodium bicarbonate is not going to offset mechanical breakdown, mechanical failure, which is just you've just gone to the point where your just muscles just aren't strong enough to maintain the effort.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: And so this isn't like, oh, I you know, I have to go run for a really long time, and so I'm gonna take this so that my muscles don't fatigue.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_00: That's this is not different is going on.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's kind of, and that's the other thing that I think is important to mess mention here, because it's it's really for efforts where we're pushing the pace to some of those paces that are starting to cause those metabolic byproducts.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: If you're running a really steady zone two pace the entire time, so even for like an ultramarathon or I mean, yeah, that's I mean, you kind of mentioned that, but the breakdown that's occurring at the end of the race isn't necessarily because they're having metabolic acid, like some sort of acidic thing.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's more the breakdown, the breakdown of the muscle, maybe some of these other things, glycogen depletion, that are going on.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: That's the reason people are starting to kind of fail, so to speak, at the end of a really long endurance event, um, especially if they've been maintaining more of an aerobic um pace, like a zone two sort of pace.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: So I would almost argue like if if you're trying to finish an event um and you're just trying to stay in a pretty aerobic uh zone the whole time, like you this isn't going to help you really at all.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's not even worth trying because it's not going to do anything for you.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: What it's going to help with is if you're in a even in like a marathon or a like an ultra, and this is really speaking maybe to some of the people who are at the top, who are running the fastest for these races, where you're starting to see people run like pretty fast times for these ultras, where they might be speeding up or slowing down, like speeding up it or going up a hill really fast or trying to make a move, or they're going to be in and out a little bit of these zones where they're not going to necessarily be in the aerobic zone too the entire time.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: They may be pushing up to more of a lactate zone for a period of time and then coming back down, or there's a surge happening in a marathon where somebody's going faster for a period of time to cover a move, so to speak.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: And they might be pushing their pace a little bit.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: But maybe this sodium bicarb helps neutralize that a little bit so that they don't have some of the negative effects of or it doesn't cause um enough fatigue, you know, that they can kind of go in and out of a faster pace and still be okay without that causing enough damage to slow them down.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_01: I get, you know, so there's benefit there, but it's not really potential benefit there.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_01: But it's not really beneficial for somebody who's, okay, I'm gonna go do like this really slow and steady long run.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's no reason to take this in that scenario because it's not really doing anything for you.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: That's right, you know, because you're not accumulating that the the fatigue is coming from other things.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: So it's not it's not the acidity.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's only beneficial if you reach efforts to where you've now gone beyond LT2.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: So that lactate threshold.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, or beyond, you know, yeah, it's like those fast paces.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'll tell you one thing, if I'm running a like an all-out race for I don't know, anywhere between 30 seconds and 12 minutes, it's gonna be beyond my and then that's that's my race.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's gonna be beyond LT2.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's gonna be like really hitting at some higher end speed there.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm gonna be sort of pushing that to the very limit, right?
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: And so that maybe would be where it's beneficial.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, like really for like finishing kicks, surges, maybe hill climbs where you are pushing a little bit and just short segments in a race or something where you're going really hard, that's where it's helpful.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I want people to understand that, you know, because I think you see like this is kind of where for me, like I mentioned, I'm seeing athletes, specifically elite athletes who are on their little YouTube videos and they're like mixing up their little sodium bicarb, you know, thing before their workouts and before their races, and they're, you know, showing that in their video, and they're out racing, and it's like, well, that doesn't mean that it's gonna be helpful for you and your race, you know.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: So I think there's a tendency for people to kind of see that and then think, oh, I've got to be trying this or taking this.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I really want people to understand how it's what it's used for, how it's helpful, and where it isn't helpful and the the sort of the mechanism behind it.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think sometimes if we don't know what it's actually doing, I mean for First of all, why would you you need to take if you're going to try something, you need to know how it's working.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not working for certain things.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: However, maybe if you're if you're like doing a track workout and you want to make the most out of your track workout and it's a speed workout, sure, like give it a try.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's just to me, it's like it's only helpful if you also plan to use it during a race.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_01: And does it really matter?
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't know, like, because the benefit of it isn't really that like profound, you know, based off the research.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we'll talk a little bit about the the um the research a little bit and what what it's showing, but yeah.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: So let's I mean, do you have any other thoughts there?
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: Do you want to dive into some of the side effects?
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, let's I I think we have I think we have a pretty good understanding on what scenarios it could be beneficial to for, and yeah, uh I I think the side effects are that's what I think that's gonna be that's that's a telling argument on what the side effects are.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to get into this part.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, okay, let's do the side effects and then the dosing too, because I think that's also gonna be telling for people who want to give this a try.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: Because you have to think about this like in the reality of it.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: But the biggest one is the digestive issues.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_01: So I already mentioned how it can produce gas.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_01: Well, gas, abdominal distension, so like bloating, burping, and stomach cramps are just some that you might experience even before you get out for your taking this.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: And as it's sort of reacting with the acidity of your stomach, these things are happening.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_01: So already I'm like, oh, like any of these.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to be super gassy.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't really like it when I have, especially when I'm going out for a run, it's like the worst to feel like you're you're bloated, right?
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_01: So there's those things before you even start your run.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, not to mention the possibility if you overshoot it, like if you don't get the dosing right, you could just be like extremely nauseous and just like vomit everything up.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like you literally could have the contents of your stomach from this just kind of, you know, throw it all up.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: So then it's like, okay, well, I'm trying to go out for this workout and it's throwing up everything.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um the taste is very unpleasant.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, if you just ever like I've had baked baked goods where maybe I overdid the baking soda in them, and they're there's like that weird metallic, um almost like salty taste to it, and you're like, oh, this has way too much baking soda.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: Well, imagine that, but you're taking the baking soda teaspoon right, you know, or you're adding it to a liquid and you're trying to drink it.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's not a very pleasant taste on its own, and um, it can cause some additional thirst as well.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the most problematic piece is when you actually go out for your workout, if you haven't dosed it or you haven't really um maybe tinkered with it, you can have pretty bad diarrhea.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's like not just the kind that you're like, I mean, it could be like the kind that causes an accident, you know, like you feel it coming, and then it's like it, you don't have time to get to the bathroom kind of situation.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_01: And there's so many athletes out there who've talked about this.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I was talking with Justin, and I'm not gonna say that I know that this is what happened in this race because I don't know what happened.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_01: But I was talking with Justin before about the high rocks situation with the woman who pooped her pants.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, we've all had digestive illnesses before, and usually when we're sick because of a GI bug, we're not able to win a race.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_01: I suspect that was happening with this woman is she had sodium bicarb before the race.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know, I don't know if she did, I don't know if she's ever said anything to that effect, but I'm like, it just makes sense to me, you know.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, what I heard another person sort of mention that on another podcast, and I was like, yes, I bet that's you know, that would be the only explanation.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: So uh yeah, if you don't want that to be you, this is why it's so important not to try this before a race and or not have dialed this in to an extensive extent to the point where you have it like perfectly timed and perfectly dosed because it can cause this problem.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know about you, Justin, but I already have sometimes GI issues.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah, sometimes I'll go run down my road and come back just so that I can make sure to use the bathroom before I'm like fully satisfied and like, okay, I'm gonna go do my run.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it causes me some I think most runners can have can relate, or most athletes, like it kind of can cause sometimes some level of anxiety.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like, okay, where are the bathrooms?
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I think most runners, I mean not every time, but I have my moments.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like to think that I would be, I mean, I would have to, I would just advise if you're going to experiment with this, make sure you have a bathroom in the vicinity somewhere close by, unless you want to be going in the bushes because it's that bad.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's bad.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_00: Or you or you're doing a trail run somewhere.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and you can just hop off the chest.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: Don't take this and then go like for a run in your neighborhood.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: I doubt that your that your neighbors would appreciate a special scene that they can't.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I can only that's the type of thing that causes me anxiety is like like, okay, we're going for a run in town.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_01: I have to make sure I've got the bathroom thing situated, right?
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I think most people and then and even before races too.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like I've been in races where the porter potty line is I mean, s I'm like, oh, I could probably go to the bathroom one more time, or I could go pee one more time, and then I get to the porter potties, and I'm like, oh my gosh, this is I'm not gonna make it to the start, right?
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_01: Of the race.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_01: Or I've had to like in my last marathon that happened, I was like, I gotta go pee one more time and have to luckily go number two.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_01: But I I went uh for the grandma's marathon, and just like almost every race, like so many races have this problem, there's not enough porter potties, everybody's lined up.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, I'm not gonna make it to the start.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm just gonna have to go to the race start and just either pee my pants or go down the road at the porter potty in the middle of the race.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_01: And like, but what if you have to go?
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know, like I'm just saying, you know, you might want to think this one through before you're in those situations.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_01: And with because it already causes so much anxiety for people, it may be one that would keep you from wanting to do this.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_01: But um big, big problem, you know, big, big side effect that I think is worth noting.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_01: And you do hear a lot of stories, at least when I've kind of dived into like sodium bicarb and just athletes in general.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_01: I hear you hear a lot of stories around this.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_01: So just a warning to anyone who wants to try it, just be prepared.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um now the protocol here is, and I'm getting this from I I had to use, I just want to mention this.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like, there's a couple of articles that I'm I used to, or some research articles and just some basically uh consensus statements or uh meta-analysis that kind of took a lot of different research on it and kind of condensed it into like a basic practical, like this is what what we would recommend, or how to use it.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_01: The one I one of the ones I use was the International Society of Sports Nutrition position stand on sodium bicarbonate and exercise performance.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_01: So that um that's kind of where I'm getting some of this.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_01: And then um the other one was common questions and misconceptions of sodium bicarb as an ergogenic aid.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_01: What does the science really show?
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: So these are some of the articles, and I think what I mind up doing is just writing a blog article and including some of these in in there so people can check out that if they want to read some of those um articles.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_01: There's a couple of research articles I found as well.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_01: Uh honestly, there wasn't like there wasn't a lot on endurance athletes.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_01: It was a lot on like short duration, fast, speedy stuff.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_01: So I do have to also mention that there's not a lot of research out there on this for like ultra endurance or or marathons.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: So just be also aware that there isn't a lot out there.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_01: So if you want to do this, it's really just kind of like an N of one.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: There's not like a robust amount of research that even says this is helpful.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_01: So keep that in mind.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um but for a single pre-event dose, this the those articles stated about 0.3 grams of sodium bicarb per kilogram of body mass, taken about anywhere between 60 and 180, so an hour to three hours before exercise.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_01: So that's a long duration, too.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_01: That's a lot, a lot of wiggle room doesn't really help, you know.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um if you want to, the uh the that position stand also said maybe starting with like a 0.2 kilogram gram per kilogram dose as like a lower dose to start with, and then maybe upping the dose a little bit as you test it out and get used to it.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but just so you so you so people listening have an idea of what that is, or maybe they've got their calculators out and they're trying to figure it out.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_01: But a 150 pound, roughly 150 pound person, 70 kilograms, it's about 21 grams of sodium bicarb.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: And then I looked this up and I was like, well, what's a lot, what's this amount in teaspoons of baking soda?
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_01: And it came out to be like four or five teaspoons, so like maybe like a tablespoon or more of this.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_01: So again, it doesn't it sounds like like when you think about it, you're like, oh, that's not no.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_01: If you've ever again, if you've ever tried baking soda, it's a lot.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like imagine putting that in like a drink glass and you're like trying to drink this down.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_01: Oh man, like you gotta like pull your nose and pour it down.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, it's not pleasant.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, if you're doing it the old school way, anyways, this is how you would want to dose it.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_01: And then again, it's like one to three hours.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_01: That's a long period of time.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_01: I would maybe start at like two hours, I don't know, like sort of like meet somewhere in the middle there and tinker.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_01: You're so the basically you're going because this is like different for everyone, and I think probably people just have different, I don't know, um abilities to utilize this or or you know, maybe sensitivities, you would probably want to really have to tinker with this quite a bit before you actually did it in a race.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I would say, again, it's really gonna be during your speed workout, so you wouldn't want to do this every day.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but you would probably take a little bit of time to really figure out exactly what works for you if you're doing it.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_01: So my warning would be this isn't um like something that you're like, oh, come to try it once or twice.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's probably gonna take a little bit of time to try it out and actually see if it's helpful and actually see if you have side effects or if you can dose it right so you can actually make it work for you.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like I said, I've never done it.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't know.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_01: I can't say I have personal experience with it, but go ahead and give it a try and let us know.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_01: No, I'm just kidding, if you're willing, if you if you're thinking about doing it or you already have, like I would love to hear people's um experiences with it.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um but the if you do have GI symptoms or that's a concern, the research also supports trying like a lower dose dividing it.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe doing like maybe if you take it a couple hours before, like sipping on it over the course of a little bit of time.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_01: Or like I said, I mean, maybe as we're seeing more and more people doing this, we'll see more and more formulations of it in like gels where you can sort of like trickle it in like you would, you know, through orally, but trickling in um slowly, so it's it's not all at once, and maybe it doesn't hit the system quite as hard.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and maybe you know, certain formulations like the Mort Morton one where it's like in a hydrogel, it's just easier to have it more slowly digested.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_01: So there may be ways in which in the future this is just formulated a little better, so it's a little easier on the tummy and uh easier for athletes to even do during a race potentially.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_01: But um I also uh in this uh research statement, they also said maybe like a multi-day protocol of just smaller doses.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like I guess that's just to maybe get your gut to tolerate it.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_01: Because I'm like I just don't I personally for three to seven days, I don't want to be taking little doses of this all throughout the day.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_01: It just sounds unpleasant.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it doesn't taste good.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't know.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_01: I just think to me, I'm like, is it is it worth it?
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_01: We'll talk about the research, like what the what the performance benefit might be, but um there is that that cycling, there is a newer cycling study that'll also point to maybe in the blog um that they took it, that the cyclists took the doses sort of throughout and with the with the gel that contained carbs, and they did see some improvement.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think what they basically did was like a three-hour ride, and then they after the ride, they did a 12-minute time trial for power, like a time trial basically, and they did see that there was some performance benefit with that.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_01: But again, I'm like, how I guess that's practical if you're going to do a three-hour ride and then you're at in a race and you're gonna sprint it in those last 12 minutes, right?
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe, but anyway, that's that that was 11 cyclists in that study, so not a very big study either.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um so just something for people to think about.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_01: What are your thoughts?
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_01: Any thoughts about the dosing or the situation?
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_00: Man, as I as I there's just one vision in my head as we as we talk about this, and it's the it's the childhood like science fair volcano.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_00: You know?
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's the only thing that I can see in my in my mind is just you know, that that that would be me.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_00: I would I would take this this baking soda and I would turn into the science fair volcano and explode it and poopy, and I don't know.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_00: There there's a lot that I would do for for performance.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but even I draw a line as to what I'm willing to endure for performance.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_00: And this just crosses it.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm I'm willing, I'm willing to be a guinea pig for for my athletes.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm willing to try stuff and you know, really see uh and get some some experience behind it on whether I think that this is a a valid approach.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_00: But if any of my athletes are listening to this podcast episode, uh I'm not trying this for you.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_00: You're not and I'm not the guinea pig.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's kind of like the keto diet when all that like low carb stuff was going on, and now I think we've really come away from that.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_01: But it's like where athletes were going low carb.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_01: Uh that's where I drew my line as well.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_01: There, this is similar.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, no, I just I already just don't feel like this is gonna be good.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I I don't I don't like this.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think it's helpful, I don't think it's gonna be like helpful, you know, and I'm not willing to give it a try to see.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_01: So sorry.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_01: But, you know, the one thing I do want to mention is that there are companies that are making this a little bit more tolerable, maybe edible or also tolerable on your tummy.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_01: And so a lot of people are probably familiar with the more Morton um M-U-A-R-T-E-N.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_01: They have gels that you can take that have this hydrogel technology that they've created.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_01: They've basically taken that technology and now made this bicarb system, is what they call it.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_01: And there's like so basically it it does, it's kind of similar.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_01: You take water and then you take the powder and the and the components together and you add the bicarb to it and it creates this little I've seen people do it like in a little bowl or something, it creates this little gel sort of concoction that they then eat.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_01: And it's uh sweetened a little bit, so it does have like some fructose and sugar in it to make it taste a little bit more palatable.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_01: I can't say it looks like it tastes great, because it doesn't it doesn't look like it tastes great at all, but it's a better, right?
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's more tolerable and generally a lot of people report less of the GI problems.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_01: But the the problem here is that if you go, so right before the podcast we were ta talking and I went on to the feed, um, which is just a common place to get like supplements and things for athletes.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_01: For me, for my dose, uh so what I would need to take, I could get four doses for$70.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like So one run.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_01: Well, maybe like four runs, but still like I don't know.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just like, is it is it worth it for$70?
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_01: And it makes me think, okay, well, you can get the box of you know, the box of the um baking soda for two dollars, you know.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_01: So at this point I'm thinking, uh, if I'm gonna try it, because I'm definitely don't want to spend a bunch of money on something, I don't even know is gonna work.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_01: That's the problem, too.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, is this even gonna help me or is this gonna be like a waste of my money?
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_01: Because$70 is a lot that I could spend on things I already know are gonna be helpful, or even half a pair of new shoes, you know what I mean?
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah, well, maybe nowadays that's questionable, but um, you could you could buy so many more things of this.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_01: Is it gonna be worth it?
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, that makes me think I would just try the old school technique.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_01: But then yeah, that involves a lot of different tinkering and problems.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't know.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_01: You have if you're listening and you're willing and you have the you know the income to be able to like afford that, plus plus you probably have to do it a few times to really figure out the timing and the dose and if it works, like by all means, like that probably is one of the better ways to try that from what I've heard, because it is uh maybe just a little more tolerable, but that's a lot of money.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_01: So I I I don't know.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_01: That is up to you.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not gonna be the judge of that.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just saying for me personally, I don't know if I can spend that much money.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_01: If it goes on sale for half that, I would try it, maybe.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm like 70 is like a little too much for me.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um so the other thing that's happening now with this is that people are starting to exactly like I'm saying, well, it's it's not really gonna work that well for like a long race if you take it before.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_01: So we'd have to take this.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_01: What are you gonna be in the middle of your race, adding your little tincture together and your bottle?
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know what I mean?
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_01: And having this, like I guess you could do that at one of the aid stations in like a hundred mile or but now there's a lot of companies that are coming out with gels that have carb and sodium bicarb.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so this is kind of maybe where this is moving because I haven't, other than that cycling study, seen a lot of studies around it during exercise intake of the sodium bicarb.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_01: But there are some products out there that I've not had a chance to try either.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe if I feel more confident that I'm not gonna have like I'm just picturing this, I'm on my long run and every three miles I have to go to the bathroom.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like I just, I just that's that's not worth it to me.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_01: But if they can guarantee I won't, if there's some sort of guarantee, maybe um maybe, or maybe because it's dose so small, there's less of a problem.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_01: But there's a couple.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_01: There's this ministry M N S T R Y bicarb that is made by a German company, and it's 40 grams of carbohydrate and five grams of sodium bicarb in a gel.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it does have some technology and caps, it says encapsulation technology to minimize GI problems.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_01: I haven't tried it.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just saying it's out there.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_01: There's another one that I found at the feed that was bicarb fly carb.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_01: Fly carb, it's called.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_01: And it also, I don't know the formulation.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_01: It says, um, anyways, it's supposedly also a mix of carb and bicarb that you would take during.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry, I'm looking over here because I'm looking at the ingredients, but it has 18 grams of carb.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I guess it has, I don't see it in the ingredient list, but I thought it had um bicarb as well.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_01: So I would m maybe look at at that potentially.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then the other one that I found was Barbs fuel bicarb was another one that I found.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's just a another another thing like this that you can take.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I didn't even really look at the um price, but for one, it looks like maybe for one or two of these licarb things, it's like ten dollars.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it just comes with one or maybe two in a packet.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_01: I can't even a single serving.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_01: Nope, it's just a single serving is ten dollars.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're willing to pay ten dollars for a gel, just a single one, there you go.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_01: You can buy that, you know what I mean?
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_01: So um it's definitely uh pricey.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and that's crazy to me, maybe because they're using these like technologies to make it easier on your tummy, but just knowing that this just knowing that the um baking soda itself is just pennies, you know.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's a dollar like a whole box will give you like it's like a couple bucks at the store, maybe.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_01: To to then have be purchasing something like this.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_01: I I don't know.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's hard for me.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_01: I I think I'm just I'm I I'm kind of I'm a budget friendly person.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_01: I don't like to be spending that much money unless I know it works, and then I would, but yeah, go ahead.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_00: You said that you saw some videos of people uh like in this mix they've mixed it like into like this whatever.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_00: So I think I saw like some reel or something.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_00: I was just doom scrolling, whatever, and I thought I saw like this guy eating this white mixture that almost looked like watered down Elmer's glue, you know, from from like the old school like little uh little glue things that we would we all used as kids.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_00: So if you poured a bunch of that into a bowl and and added some water and made it a little bit runny, is that what is that what this guy was eating?
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_01: I think he was probably doing the Morton one, because it's like that, it's like a gel that they've created that you put it in and it it's like a yeah, almost like a white Yeah, like a white gel.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_00: It looked absolutely horrendous.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like an Elmer's glue, yes.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, this is I think that's probably what you're talking about, yeah.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_01: So this is what people are doing for their run.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_00: They're so needless, needless to say, we're not gonna have Mortons reaching out to probably not potential sponsors for the episode.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_00: As we just called their product, it looked like it was just eating.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_01: And we just called it really expensive and basically told people we weren't gonna try it.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I doubt they're gonna reach out to us.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it if I knew for sure, like, okay, here's the kicker though, because this is what I want people to really recognize here, and we'll go through some of the other potential side effects, is when I I was like, okay, I guess I never really looked up what the benefit here was.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like, okay, what's the research show?
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_01: Well, the research is really showing for those shorter events, and we don't have enough for longer distance events yet, that it's only a wonder three percent improvement potentially.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_01: So this is just seconds, you know, really.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I don't know, I didn't do any of the math, but I'm it might be like for a 3% increase, like more than just seconds.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_01: But that's if the best case scenario that, you know, this is really something that works really well for you, and everybody sort of has a different response.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_01: So I guess my question would be like, I've thought about this.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_01: I've actually did sort of think about this for that 5K I want to do.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, I want to try to do everything I can and run this really fast.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_01: 5K, would this be something I would give a try?
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_01: Did at one point kind of think about it.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_01: And now that I'm talking through it and was looking through all the research a little bit more in depth, I was like, I don't know, you know, because there's probably so many other things I could be doing to get that one to three percent that would be just basic foundational things or even other supplements that might help, that it's maybe not worth it for me to spend$70 for four servings or to tinker around and have bowel issues during like workouts and things that are just gonna.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'm thinking to myself, if I have to stop every so often because I have to go to the bathroom, well, that's gonna really ruin my workout.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_01: And then I'm not gonna get the most out of my workout, you know?
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I'd rather get the most out of my workouts than have to like deal with this.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_01: So you have to kind of weigh the pros and cons.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_01: Because I did think that.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, it could be, it could be the matter between like an 18 something and and just under 18, right?
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe like, what if I was 1805?
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_01: But if I'd taken this, I could have been 1758.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_01: You know, for some sort of goal like that, it maybe would make sense.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_01: But for most of us, if it's just seconds, you have to really think to yourself, is that worth it?
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's not going to be minutes.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's at least in these shorter events.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_01: And we don't have enough information right now to say this is making a big improvement in those longer distance, like a marathon.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_01: We just don't have any sort of really concrete information yet or research to suggest that taking it for a marathon, even, and you'd have to take it mid-marathon somehow, like through some of these other gels and stuff.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's something you really want to think about.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um and for a pro, yes, like this is why the pros are using it, because a 1 to 3% difference or improvement could mean the difference between a podium in a 5K and not podium, you know?
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_01: So when I was watching Allie Olstrander, I don't know if I'm saying her, and I have no problems with her.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_01: I think she's lovely, she's just cute, but she's takes that.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_01: That's when I was watching one of her videos, and she was taking this before her um races and her workouts, and that's where I kind of one of the people I saw doing it, and I was like, yeah, I could see that for her because she's probably, I think, even sponsored by the feed.
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_01: She probably gets this product for free or cheap.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, it's gonna make a difference for her when she goes to 5K Worlds or whatever she was doing, and she wants to try to be on like top 10 or podium or whatever her goal was, like that makes a difference because seconds matter.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_01: But for the rest of us, it I don't know.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like maybe if you have some sort of goal where you really want to get a 5K under a certain time or something that's just seconds that you're looking to break.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_01: But honestly don't think it's probably worth it for the majority of us because that's not a very big improvement.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_01: What are your thoughts?
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean, would you would you take it for a 1 to 3% improvement in your 5k?
• 50:54
  unknown: Yeah.
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_00: Because I mean, the way that I'm looking at it is not I'm doing the I've been doing the math in my head for now for since you've been talking about this.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, okay, let's assume that you run a 20-minute 5k.
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_00: That's a pretty solid, that's a solid 5k, right?
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_00: So 10% improvement in that five in that five in that 20-minute 5k is two minutes.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_00: So that means 5% is only is a minute.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_00: So you're talking less than 60 seconds out of the minute.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, maybe like 30 seconds out of 20 minutes.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_01: And the faster you go, yeah, you're talking anywhere between 30 seconds to a minute.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_01: For 3%.
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_01: So a little like yeah.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_01: For that, just yeah.
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_01: And that's assuming, yeah, because it's a really only been studied up, like really beneficial up to 12 minutes.
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't know.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's there's a lot of questions I have about um, is it is it even going to benefit you in that?
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like, is it really gonna have the same benefit for somebody who's running a 20-minute 5k maybe uh versus like a a 15-minute 5k or who's trying to I uh who's really pushing it, you know, like there.
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm not saying that a 20-minute, it's just like is the benefit there?
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_01: I don't the physiology and everything, does it all add up to have that?
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I mean a 30-second maybe would be worth it, but there's really that's um assuming the best case scenario with it, and it's probably more like a 1%.
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_01: So let's just keep that one in mind as we're tickering.
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_00: The study was done, the study was done using cycles.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that was so I'm curious.
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that was the that wasn't the study I was talking about.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_01: That was just a different study that was more recent.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_01: That they were trying to get an idea of how it would be beneficial for endurance athletes.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_01: And they used cyclists who did like a three hours of riding and then a time trial at the end.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_01: So they were taking these gels with it.
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so I don't know that one But that's where they that's where they came up with the benchmark of of one to three percent improvement in performance was from this 12-minute cycling touch.
• 53:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, that there was I don't have the exact I don't have all of the studies.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_01: That was just coming from more of a meta analysis of all the studies that they've done.
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_01: I think that cycling one is one of the only very few that have been done on endurance, like an endurance event, where essentially they haven't done just like an all-out sprint or a 12-minute time trial just on its own.
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_01: So in that in that one, they they did like a three-hour bike and then a time trial.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_01: So they were kind of looking at does this help people doing more of an endurance and then kind of like a pushing it at the end, does it still have that benefit?
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I guess they did show six so the bicarbonate condition produced higher power in a 12-minute time trial.
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_01: So six percent higher.
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_00: So Yeah, you said it was about 12 watts.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I don't know.
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, and that's not a real world, that wasn't a race, so I don't know.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know how to translate that into oh, that's gonna be this, you know, rate racing conditions and things like that are are different.
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_01: So it's really hard to even figure out exactly how how much better benefit it would be.
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um I don't know.
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's just it's just more I I would think it'll be interesting to see as more of these products come out that have carbs and bicarb.
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_01: If more research comes out for endurance athletes, and if that research does support that, wow, this really makes a big difference, it could be minutes or something like that for an endurance athlete.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe I would try it, but I just don't um I don't feel at this point like I'm willing to pay ten dollars for a gel.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_01: That's the other thing.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_01: If it were a little more pri like was it it was a little more cost effective, I would maybe try it just to see if like taking, but I'd have to, like I said, be on my treadmill or something because I would want to be somewhere I could just hop off and go to the bathroom.
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_01: But um yeah.
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_01: So it's I just I I just want people to understand, you know, that I think again, I mean, to go back to I think my discussion on supplements that I had before where I was talking about supplements.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_01: I think in one of my deep dives I did my solo deep dives.
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_01: I think supplement companies want to make money.
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_01: The supplement industry sure does make a lot of money.
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_01: And they're gonna have at they sponsor athletes, like all of these athletes that you see, or most of them who are taking this, who are putting little videos out about it and mixing their little white concoction up and eating it and showing you this on Instagram reels or whatever, they're probably being sponsored because they're elite athletes and the companies want to make money and they're making a lot of money.
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know how much that technology takes to create, but$70 for four servings is a lot.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_01: So I would assume that that company is probably making a lot of money off of it.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so they want you to buy it, and it doesn't probably have the effect exactly that you want.
• 56:13
  SPEAKER_01: And you would actually benefit a lot more from getting consistent training and doing the work that you need to do, eating and fueling adequately.
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_01: So just the basic things, right?
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like that we always talk about sleep, hydration, all of the basics of foundational things are probably going to get you that one to three percent or more before this sodium bicarb will ever make a difference.
• 56:39
  SPEAKER_01: This this sort of stuff is for people like an elite who has everything dialed in usually perfectly.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they have all the time in the world to not really, but they have time because this is their job, but they have everything else, they're spending hours a day, like you know, doing stuff related to their training.
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the that's where it maybe is helpful, but if you're like a new athlete, brand new to the sport, and you're just you know been running for like a year and you're trying to improve your 5k, this isn't and you don't eat well, you know what I mean?
• 57:15
  SPEAKER_01: You don't sleep enough, you don't eat it well, you don't you don't have your nutrition dialed, and this is not where you need to go.
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_01: Do not buy this, do not spend$70 on this product.
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_01: Please don't do it.
• 57:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's not worth it because you're gonna get so much benefits just from the basics.
• 57:31
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, I think people just want to have something easy they can do to, you know, it's hard to put in the work to do the consistent training, and it's hard to, you know, play on meals and think about food and do all those things because that takes work and effort, right?
• 57:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's a lot easier to just take something and think it's gonna be magical.
• 57:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but this isn't magical if you haven't already put in the work to to do all the basics.
• 57:58
  SPEAKER_00: So that's my I'm curious if the if go ahead I'm curious if the efficacy of the bicarbonate changes if you were to do something like mix it with food.
• 58:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 58:07
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're going to eat like a pre-workout meal, like oatmeal, maybe if you s make your oatmeal and then you mix in the the sodium bicarbonate into the oatmeal and eat it, does it change the efficacy of the sodium bicarbonate, or does it just make it more palatable to where you would be able to consume?
• 58:29
  SPEAKER_01: Although I mean maybe you would just take a little bit longer for it to be because it's like mixed in so it's not hitting the system so much.
• 58:37
  SPEAKER_01: So I would almost say like you know, eating a meal and then having the sodium bicarb, or you could mix it in.
• 58:46
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know how you would make that more.
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe juice.
• 58:49
  SPEAKER_01: I just don't know how you would make it palatable because I'm thinking in my own, because I've when I've had this little bit of like it's usually like you put a teaspoon of sodium bicarb or the baking soda in your baked good, but maybe I accidentally put two teaspoons in.
• 59:07
  SPEAKER_01: Well, now for the whole entire batch, it tastes bad.
• 59:11
  SPEAKER_01: And this is just one additional teaspoon.
• 59:14
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know, you know what I mean?
• 59:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm like, and now you're asking me to have like four teaspoons in a row, like of it just straight.
• 59:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I just don't know how even adding it to oatmeal without putting a whole bunch of sugar.
• 59:26
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 59:27
  SPEAKER_01: I just don't know how you make that more palatable.
• 59:30
  SPEAKER_01: I j I don't have any ideas because I'm like, it's so strong, right?
• 59:34
  SPEAKER_01: And it's very salty.
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there's I was actually looking this up because it does have so salt, because it's sodium bicarb, and there's like per teaspoon actually, this is also interesting.
• 59:48
  SPEAKER_01: Per teaspoon of baking soda has 1,259 milligrams of sodium.
• 59:54
  SPEAKER_01: So you're also taking uh several teaspoons of this and there's that much sodium, too.
• 1:00:02
  SPEAKER_01: That's another thing I was like, is it Yeah?
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're taking four to five teaspoons of sodium bicarbonate, you're talking about like 5,000 milligrams of sodium in one intake.
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I I guess that was also my issue with it.
• 1:00:16
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, okay, that could be problematic for somebody, um, for anybody, but that's a lot of sodium um too.
• 1:00:24
  SPEAKER_01: So that's a consideration, especially if you have any.
• 1:00:28
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think the bigger thing too is if you do have high blood pressure, heart issues, um, you know, definitely wouldn't recommend this for children or anything.
• 1:00:37
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's got problems with it.
• 1:00:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know if there's any way in the formulation with the Morton, if they've like that's the other thing I'm like, is they made it can you actually make it with less soda?
• 1:00:49
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's sodium bicarb, so it's like part of the, you know, I'm like, I don't know like how the chemical piece of it too much.
• 1:00:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm not a chemist, but I do think it's worth noting.
• 1:01:00
  SPEAKER_01: So it could cause swelling, that amount of sodium, if your body doesn't really need it, that excess amount, your kidneys have to work through it, first of all, and it causes swelling potentially, um, especially for somebody who doesn't, um, who maybe has issues already with heart stuff or kidneys and stuff.
• 1:01:19
  SPEAKER_01: So we just want to make sure we take that into mind.
• 1:01:22
  SPEAKER_01: And then also, um, if because of that, it can kind of mess you with your balance of your electrolytes a little bit.
• 1:01:29
  SPEAKER_01: And so it could cause uh high levels of sodium and low levels of potassium potentially.
• 1:01:35
  SPEAKER_01: It could kind of disturb that.
• 1:01:37
  SPEAKER_01: It could cause if you're taking this all the time, or you're like, oh, I heard sodium bicarb is good, so I'm just gonna take it every day or all the time, which that amount of sodium alone, I would maybe only recommend this once or twice a week at most.
• 1:01:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um metabolic alkalosis, so we have to remember this is a base, uh like an alkaline.
• 1:01:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's there to basically uh we take it to neutralize the acidity.
• 1:02:05
  SPEAKER_01: So if you take too much of it or you take it too often, now you could have high levels of pH.
• 1:02:10
  SPEAKER_01: And our body needs really wants to be in this very tight, it's like 7.4, but we have like this, I can't remember the exact level, but we have a very tight range of pH that we want to be in.
• 1:02:23
  SPEAKER_01: And when we go outside of the range either way, it's dangerous.
• 1:02:27
  SPEAKER_01: So we also want to keep in mind we don't want to be pushing it too alkaline either.
• 1:02:32
  SPEAKER_01: And there could be headaches, confusion, muscle twitching.
• 1:02:35
  SPEAKER_01: I was just looking up some of the like um side effects of that, the seizures, which is kind of scary.
• 1:02:41
  SPEAKER_01: So we also have to keep in mind this isn't like sometimes we think, oh, these are, you know, oh, athletes are using it, or this is being recommended for performance enhancing.
• 1:02:52
  SPEAKER_01: And we also have to recomm recognize that there are problems potentially with it, especially if we overdo it.
• 1:02:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I also think about that during a race.
• 1:03:02
  SPEAKER_01: If we are gonna be adding this to gels, but I think people just have a tendency to overdo it.
• 1:03:07
  SPEAKER_01: And so now are we gonna see problems more kidney?
• 1:03:11
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, if we're thinking like a long duration race, you have all already issues sometimes with um kidney, you know, maybe not getting a fluid and kidney distress.
• 1:03:21
  SPEAKER_01: And then you're adding this on top of it and you're like really pushing your kidneys in a way that aren't isn't good.
• 1:03:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like, is this gonna cause more kidney issues, kidney damage during long duration races?
• 1:03:32
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 1:03:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just throwing it out there, you know.
• 1:03:34
  SPEAKER_01: It it it doesn't, it isn't exactly innocent all the way either.
• 1:03:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's not like it's doesn't have potential problems.
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_01: So all all worth mentioning.
• 1:03:46
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 1:03:47
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's where I'm I'm at with it.
• 1:03:50
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 1:03:50
  SPEAKER_01: I'm still not convinced I'm gonna try it.
• 1:03:54
  SPEAKER_00: Is there a reasonable is there a reasonable protocol for using it post post-workout and post-race?
• 1:04:02
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think so.
• 1:04:03
  SPEAKER_00: So so far we've been talking about like taking it before before an event in order to to offset the potential buildup of of of acid.
• 1:04:13
  SPEAKER_00: Is there is there an approach to where you come back from a really hard session or you've just done a really long endurance event and the next day is kind of like your your recovery day implementing some kind of sodium bicarbonate in order to to reduce the damage?
• 1:04:33
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if I would recommend that, because again, I think you know, it's accumul like that your body's sort of doing its job to like after the fact, you know, to kind of like neutralize, you know, your body's actually generally it's just when we get into these h really stressful states, either with illness or really intense exercise, that this starts to accumulate.
• 1:04:56
  SPEAKER_01: But once you're done with the exercise, the body actually does a really good job of neutralizing it.
• 1:05:01
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think it probably needs too much help, but I think with some of the side effects, I would be worried again that people would overdo it and start taking, you know, I don't know.
• 1:05:11
  SPEAKER_01: It I don't think there's any real research on recovery.
• 1:05:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's an interesting question, but I don't I don't really see it.
• 1:05:18
  SPEAKER_01: I just hope that maybe we don't go in that direction because our bodies do a pretty good job of that already.
• 1:05:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um But yeah, I don't know.
• 1:05:28
  SPEAKER_01: I think I think my conclusion would be I would say if you really are like somebody that likes to tinker and you like to experiment, like go ahead, like try it.
• 1:05:43
  SPEAKER_01: I would not do it more than a couple times a week, maybe, um, just because of some of the side effects and the amount of sodium that's in there.
• 1:05:52
  SPEAKER_01: I would be really cautious, you know, to or just remember, you know, that it's mostly for those har harder.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_01: Higher intensity efforts.
• 1:06:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if you're willing to spend the money on the Morton or buying some of those gels, like by all means, give it a shot.
• 1:06:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm not saying don't try it if you don't, if you really love to tinker around and try things, but don't do it blindly thinking, you know, this is going to be magical or I'm going to have some sort of increasy performance benefit from it.
• 1:06:25
  SPEAKER_01: And you have to kind of weigh the pros and cons for yourself.
• 1:06:29
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't want to make any sort of, it's not like I'm like, oh, this is dangerous, don't do it, or this is bad, or it has no benefits.
• 1:06:36
  SPEAKER_01: I just think it's really important to weigh the pros and cons.
• 1:06:39
  SPEAKER_01: And in my mind, I've weighed the pros and cons for myself.
• 1:06:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I personally don't feel like it's something that's going to benefit me a whole lot.
• 1:06:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um and, you know, I I definitely think if you don't have the basics down, it's just why even bother.
• 1:06:54
  SPEAKER_01: But it's yeah, it's not like um it's not like Date necessarily extremely dangerous.
• 1:07:01
  SPEAKER_01: I just think you need to take it what we're saying and dive into the research yourself if you want, look at what's out there, but don't just watch your favorite athlete, you know, whether they're a great athlete or a super good person or whatever, doesn't matter.
• 1:07:17
  SPEAKER_01: Don't don't just assume because this professional athlete's doing this that it's something that you need to be doing and it's gonna make a huge difference for you because it probably won't make as big of a difference as you think.
• 1:07:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean the placebo effect is a pretty strong effect.
• 1:07:34
  SPEAKER_01: So I think a lot of what's happening for some people who are taking it is they're like, oh, like I this is gonna make a big difference, and they think it's gonna make a big difference, and it does in their mind, they feel better during their workout because they think it's going to make them feel better, right?
• 1:07:50
  SPEAKER_01: But is it really?
• 1:07:51
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 1:07:52
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you'd have to be a little more scientific with doing the same exact workout in the same exact conditions, timing everything, you know.
• 1:08:00
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know, it'd be really hard to maybe figure that out, but it probably isn't making as profound a difference as you think or suspect or want it to.
• 1:08:11
  SPEAKER_01: So those are my final thoughts, takeaways.
• 1:08:15
  SPEAKER_01: Anything from you?
• 1:08:19
  SPEAKER_00: No, I just I don't know.
• 1:08:22
  SPEAKER_00: I like I like to try stuff, uh, but I don't I don't see this I don't see this being one of those things that that I try.
• 1:08:29
  SPEAKER_00: It just I don't know, it just doesn't appeal to me.
• 1:08:31
  SPEAKER_00: It feels it almost feels like you are going way above and beyond just enjoyment of the sport.
• 1:08:42
  SPEAKER_00: You're you're you do the sport because you love the you love the sport.
• 1:08:46
  SPEAKER_00: Do you want performance?
• 1:08:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you do.
• 1:08:48
  SPEAKER_00: Do you want to be competitive?
• 1:08:50
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 1:08:51
  SPEAKER_00: But if you're actually sitting there thinking that what can I do to get this kind of an edge over my competitors, I would argue that there may be some unhealthy habits on what you've developed with the sport if you're willing to take it to this extreme for performance.
• 1:09:12
  SPEAKER_01: It makes sense maybe like I said, for the elite athletes who do have money, you know, their their careers, but I'm already like I yeah, I I totally agree with you.
• 1:09:24
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's a really good point because I'm already thinking like, okay, I've got to get up on race day and I've got to eat my food at this you know what I mean?
• 1:09:31
  SPEAKER_01: There's already like a level of it that causes anxiety, and now I have to potentially add this thing in that tastes gross.
• 1:09:39
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 1:09:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's like, is it yeah.
• 1:09:42
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, what what we're all for all of us mere amateurs at the sport, is it worth it, you know, to um yeah, like when does it take the joy out of it to have to have all these supplements and protocols and things we're doing just to get that one percent difference?
• 1:10:02
  SPEAKER_01: Is it I think I just want people to really think about what you said and is it worth it?
• 1:10:10
  SPEAKER_01: And when when does the joy, yeah, what when does the these little things, these supplements and all these things we're doing, is it taking the joy out of it for you and then it's not worth it, you know, in my opinion.
• 1:10:26
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I love that you ended on that.
• 1:10:28
  SPEAKER_00: So let's let's wrap this thing up.
• 1:10:30
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so uh thank you guys for joining us in this episode.
• 1:10:34
  SPEAKER_00: This has been episode 131 of the Endurance Athlete Journey Podcast where we've talked about uh sodium bicarbonate and the uh extent to which people are looking for that competitive edge.
• 1:10:46
  SPEAKER_00: I don't I don't even I don't even know how to wrap this thing up.
• 1:10:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's just to me, it's just so ridiculous.
• 1:10:52
  SPEAKER_00: But there are people that are doing it.
• 1:10:54
  SPEAKER_00: So somebody's getting something out of it.
• 1:10:55
  SPEAKER_00: More power to you.
• 1:10:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um I'll I'll wave by as I go by you uh pooping in the woods.
• 1:11:01
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I'll wave, I'll wave as I pass by.
• 1:11:06
  SPEAKER_00: I don't I'm I'm good.
• 1:11:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I just really just dislike that.
• 1:11:11
  SPEAKER_01: So I agree.
• 1:11:12
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, yeah, I'd prefer not to, but yes, you do you.
• 1:11:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:11:17
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, so uh thank you guys for the for the the support that you continue to share the podcast.
• 1:11:23
  SPEAKER_00: If this episode resonated with you, uh are you or they're one of your friends is taking bicarbonate and and you want to share this episode with them to show them how ridiculous they're being, I don't know.
• 1:11:34
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just kind of joking here.
• 1:11:35
  SPEAKER_00: But uh share the episode.
• 1:11:37
  SPEAKER_00: Feel free to leave a review, uh, subscribe.
• 1:11:41
  SPEAKER_00: Uh those reviews and and comments are really, really helpful for the podcast in terms of its exposure and being uh driven up to the top of the list when people start to search for for podcasts or particular topics.
• 1:11:54
  SPEAKER_00: We don't monetize the podcast, so we don't have sponsors and ads.
• 1:11:58
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so you you get to enjoy the podcast commercial free.
• 1:12:02
  SPEAKER_00: We're not trying to sell you uh hemp mattresses and supplements.
• 1:12:06
  SPEAKER_00: So please uh if you'll consider just taking the minute to uh leave a review and a comment, those are greatly appreciated, and thank you so much.
• 1:12:14
  SPEAKER_00: Uh if you're interested in reaching out to us, you can uh reach out to us through the podcast email, which is going to be in the closing credits of the episode.
• 1:12:22
  SPEAKER_00: If you'd like to reach out to Coach Katie specifically, you can go to fuel the number two run.com.
• 1:12:29
  SPEAKER_00: If you would like to reach out to me, Coach Justin, you can do so at taboularassa racing.com.
• 1:12:34
  SPEAKER_00: Both of us have uh a ton of information on our websites, and so uh feel free to peruse and see what's out there.
• 1:12:42
  SPEAKER_00: But feel free to reach out to us anytime.
• 1:12:44
  SPEAKER_00: We'd be glad to help you and and talk to you.
• 1:12:47
  SPEAKER_00: And if you've have if you have experimented with this particular protocol, I'd love to love to hear from you and to see how it went and if you think it was worth it, just to shed a little uh insight that maybe we don't have.
• 1:13:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'd love people to chime in on that if they have any experiences with it.
• 1:13:05
  SPEAKER_00: Please do so.
• 1:13:06
  SPEAKER_00: Send send us some.
• 1:13:08
  SPEAKER_01: I may have my own biases with it, and I definitely have my own opinions on whether I would try it, but I would love to hear from other people on it.
• 1:13:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 1:13:15
  SPEAKER_00: So 131 of the Endurance Athlete Journey Podcast.
• 1:13:18
  SPEAKER_00: I've been your host, Coach Justin, along with Coach Katie.
• 1:13:21
  SPEAKER_00: Until next time, we'll talk to you again later.
• 1:13:23
  SPEAKER_00: See you later, everyone.
• 1:13:24
  SPEAKER_00: Bye-bye.
• 1:13:40
  SPEAKER_00: Endurance sports have a way of teaching us patience, humility, and resilience.
• 1:13:45
  SPEAKER_00: Lessons that carry far beyond the workout.
• 1:13:48
  SPEAKER_00: Progress in endurance sports doesn't come from shortcuts.
• 1:13:52
  SPEAKER_00: It comes from consistency, discipline, and doing the work when it's not glamorous.
• 1:13:57
  SPEAKER_00: Wherever you are on your endurance journey, keep trusting the process and honoring the work you put in each day.
• 1:14:04
  SPEAKER_00: If today's episode resonated, please subscribe, leave a review, and share it with someone to help on their endurance journey.
• 1:14:11
  SPEAKER_00: Don't forget to join the conversation on our social sites to help build and foster a community where we all learn and support one another.
• 1:14:19
  SPEAKER_00: We'll be back with more stories and insights from Coach Justin and Katie.
• 1:14:23
  SPEAKER_00: Until then, visit the podcast website at the endurance athlete journey.buzzsprout.com for more episodes from the Endurance Athlete Journey Podcast.
• 1:14:34
  SPEAKER_00: Have questions or comments about the podcast?
• 1:14:37
  SPEAKER_00: Feel free to send us an email at the endurance athlete journey at gmail.com.
• 1:14:43
  SPEAKER_00: For all things coaching, visit Coach Katie at fuel the number two run dot com and coach Justin at taboo rasa racing.com.
• 1:14:53
  SPEAKER_00: Again, thank you for listening to the Endurance Athlete Journey Podcast, and remember to find joy in the journey.