Latest / Houselights: A Film Director Podcast / Blue Steel (1989) - Kathryn Bigelow | Houselights #252

Transcript

Blue Steel (1989) - Kathryn Bigelow | Houselights #252 · Houselights: A Film Director Podcast

0:03
Speaker 1: Welcome to the ned Palty.
0:20
Speaker 2: Welcome back to Houselights, our director discussion show here on
0:23
Speaker 2: the Nerd Party Network. This week, we're continuing to look
0:27
Speaker 2: at the works of Catherine Bigelow with her nineteen ninety
0:30
Speaker 2: film Blue Steel. Blue Steel is the humorous and dramatic
0:35
Speaker 2: look that's meant to poke fun at serious modeling expressions.
0:41
Speaker 2: The look usually involves furrowing your brow, sucking in your cheeks,
0:45
Speaker 2: pursing your lips, and oh, I've lost, I've lost. The
0:51
Speaker 2: plot Okay. Steele is a nineteen nineties action thriller starring
0:56
Speaker 2: Jamie Lee Curtis as a rookie cop in the dangerous
0:59
Speaker 2: streets of New York York City, battling wits against Ron
1:03
Speaker 2: Silver and Clancy Brown. The killer is inside the room,
1:07
Speaker 2: so I hope you brought your gun. I'm your host
1:10
Speaker 2: this evening, Darren Moser, and I'm joined again by my
1:13
Speaker 2: friend's macro lens, photographer Tristan Macro Riddell, and head of
1:19
Speaker 2: the local police union, John Mills. I hope okay, everyone
1:24
Speaker 2: has an alibi. As we discussed this film, Blue Steel, Sorry,
1:29
Speaker 2: I had to go on a little bit of a
1:31
Speaker 2: tangle there.
1:32
Speaker 3: It took me two seconds and then I knew where
1:34
Speaker 3: you were going with it. I was like, a Zoolander
1:36
Speaker 3: reference makes everybody's day better.
1:38
Speaker 4: So I was wondering how quickly we would get into
1:42
Speaker 4: the Zoolander references. I had no idea it would be immediately.
1:48
Speaker 2: I'm very happy. I mean, that's my only reference right there.
1:51
Speaker 2: Is As I was prepping my monologue, I was like, oh,
1:55
Speaker 2: I have to make a Zoolander joke.
1:57
Speaker 3: It's right there, Bravo, right, absolutely perfectly done.
2:03
Speaker 2: All right, So this film, yeah, I mean, gosh, we
2:06
Speaker 2: got a little bit more of a budget here for
2:09
Speaker 2: Catherine Bigelow, and I believe this is the first time
2:12
Speaker 2: that either of you have seen this movie. So let's
2:15
Speaker 2: start with because we don't get to discuss this as often.
2:19
Speaker 2: What did you know about this movie? Let's start with you, John.
2:22
Speaker 2: Did you have any preconceived notions. Had you gone on
2:27
Speaker 2: a research kick for Jamie Lee Curtis Films twenty years
2:31
Speaker 2: ago and you had an idea? Or was it like, oh,
2:34
Speaker 2: it's in New York, Like was everything a surprise? As
2:37
Speaker 2: everything unfurled? How did it approach you?
2:40
Speaker 3: I remembered the poster, Okay, I remembered ignoring it in
2:44
Speaker 3: nineteen ninety definitely was not up my alley back then.
2:48
Speaker 3: And I knew that Jamie Lee Curtis was in it
2:50
Speaker 3: and it had to do with police, and that was
2:53
Speaker 3: all I knew of this movie going into it. So
2:56
Speaker 3: it was truly a surprise and delight opportunity for Ms Bigelow,
3:00
Speaker 3: of whom I am a fan, since this was a
3:03
Speaker 3: work that I had not seen.
3:05
Speaker 2: Wonderful And what about you, Tristan? Had you avoided it
3:10
Speaker 2: due to the poster as well?
3:13
Speaker 4: Knew nothing about it, didn't even know it existed until
3:16
Speaker 4: we decided to do Catherine Bigelow Retrospective the House of Bigelow. Honestly,
3:21
Speaker 4: never once have I seen the poster or seen it
3:26
Speaker 4: on IMDb while looking up Jamie Lee Curtis stuff, not
3:30
Speaker 4: even in passing or even in conversation. Had no idea
3:33
Speaker 4: this movie existed, zero, zilch, nothing.
3:35
Speaker 2: So I just popped into existence for you. Now, for me,
3:40
Speaker 2: this one I think was a blockbuster rental. Unlike you,
3:44
Speaker 2: I saw the cover and was like, that looks interesting.
3:48
Speaker 2: You know it's oh it's a cop movie. Yeah, let's
3:50
Speaker 2: take a look at this. So yeah, very very nineties.
3:54
Speaker 2: I don't think I watched it in the nineties. It
3:56
Speaker 2: was probably more college era from me. But yeah, I
4:01
Speaker 2: mean I think I enjoyed it on watch, but I
4:05
Speaker 2: probably haven't watched it since then. It was it didn't
4:10
Speaker 2: warrant buying a overpriced early two thousands DVD time, Yes,
4:17
Speaker 2: but it was really fun to revisit. Fun seeing you know,
4:22
Speaker 2: Clancy Brown just always fun whenever he's gracing the screen.
4:28
Speaker 2: And I think Ron Silver doesn't get enough credit for
4:32
Speaker 2: his acting in this movie. I mean, he is carrying
4:36
Speaker 2: a lot of these scenes. Pretty much anytime he is
4:40
Speaker 2: on screen, he is just captivating the camera.
4:44
Speaker 3: You know, it's a delight to see Ron Silver in
4:47
Speaker 3: a movie, specifically because he died too young, and he
4:52
Speaker 3: was always like he was one of those mark of
4:53
Speaker 3: quality actors. Whereas like when Ron Silver showed up on screen,
4:57
Speaker 3: it was always like, oh, well, at least I know
4:59
Speaker 3: this part's going to be good. Like you knew he was.
5:04
Speaker 3: It's not a one to one, but it was like
5:05
Speaker 3: when JT. Walsh would walk on screen, I was like,
5:07
Speaker 3: all right, well, I know at least this part's handled okay,
5:09
Speaker 3: you know, like it did, like it didn't even matter
5:11
Speaker 3: who the director was it's like, no matter what, this
5:13
Speaker 3: guy's turning into a good performance. Cool, cool, all right,
5:15
Speaker 3: good for him. Ron Silver is definitely in that category.
5:20
Speaker 3: God Rest his soul. Like he was a tremendously gifted actor.
5:25
Speaker 3: And you're right in this movie. For any flaws that
5:30
Speaker 3: we'll discuss going forward, he's not one of them. You know,
5:34
Speaker 3: He's he's there in every frame that he's you know,
5:39
Speaker 3: supposed to be delivering, and he's very obviously you know,
5:43
Speaker 3: this phrase gets thrown around and I hate the phrase,
5:46
Speaker 3: but it is one of those ones that applies where
5:48
Speaker 3: it's like he's an actor's actor where because it's one
5:51
Speaker 3: of those things where you can tell that he's giving
5:53
Speaker 3: a solid performance that meets exactly what the director is
5:57
Speaker 3: asking him to do, and he's going to give the
6:00
Speaker 3: energy to the other actor in the scene to support
6:04
Speaker 3: them and work with them. He's not a scene chewer.
6:07
Speaker 3: He's not a scene stealer. He's a collaborator. And I
6:12
Speaker 3: know Tristan might be skeptical about whether he's a scene chewer,
6:18
Speaker 3: but I would say in this he is definitely not.
6:21
Speaker 3: I would say that he is doing exactly what he's
6:23
Speaker 3: being asked.
6:25
Speaker 2: All right, all right, Yeah, I think he's portraying a
6:31
Speaker 2: crazy person. Gosh that he goes off the deep end.
6:34
Speaker 2: But it makes me think of other like nineties portrayals
6:37
Speaker 2: like this. I think of with it Diehard too, where
6:42
Speaker 2: we have the general who's like, you know, the opening shot,
6:46
Speaker 2: he's like standing naked in his room, you know, and
6:49
Speaker 2: you're like, oh, this guy's going nuts. And then with
6:54
Speaker 2: Ron Silver, you know, as Eugene, he's eventually like rubbing
7:00
Speaker 2: bloody clothes over him and hearing voices and so he's
7:03
Speaker 2: but he's portraying all this internally like there's no we
7:07
Speaker 2: don't hear any voices, we don't see what he's seeing,
7:10
Speaker 2: you know. Just I'm glad that he never had a
7:14
Speaker 2: Nintendo Zapper. You know, who knows what would have gone
7:17
Speaker 2: off if he had been a video game nut.
7:20
Speaker 3: Well, what I think is interesting is he's a stock
7:24
Speaker 3: floor trader and he's I really think that's something where
7:28
Speaker 3: the movie falls short, is he's conveying in his face
7:32
Speaker 3: in those scenes, this sort of like stressed out city
7:36
Speaker 3: guy who's frustrated and not satisfied with his life. But
7:40
Speaker 3: I don't think that the script does enough to support
7:42
Speaker 3: him to get him on a journey, like when we
7:45
Speaker 3: meet him, he's already broken as opposed to getting anything
7:50
Speaker 3: from him before he goes off the deep end of
7:53
Speaker 3: significance where I'm like, oh, I understand why he has snapped. Instead,
7:57
Speaker 3: it's like I'm sitting there working a little too hard.
7:59
Speaker 3: I'm like, oh, he's snapped because he's a New Yorker
8:04
Speaker 3: who's under too much stress. And Silver is getting me there,
8:08
Speaker 3: but there's not enough on ramp.
8:11
Speaker 2: I mean, honestly, I think, what do you think of that, Tristan,
8:14
Speaker 2: the motivation, the character.
8:17
Speaker 4: I'm kind of conflicted about it because John, I agree
8:20
Speaker 4: with you it was I'm kind of a it's a
8:23
Speaker 4: double edged sword for me because it would have been
8:25
Speaker 4: nice to see him kind of build up to that
8:29
Speaker 4: snap and just kind of figure out like, okay, like
8:31
Speaker 4: why are we focusing on this guy? What's his deal?
8:34
Speaker 4: And then we kind of see this progression as we go.
8:37
Speaker 4: But I also enjoyed just dropping him into the situation
8:40
Speaker 4: where it's just like this is Jamie Lee's movie. We're
8:43
Speaker 4: following her around, we get to the inciting incident, and
8:46
Speaker 4: then we're like, oh wait, okay, we're seeing Silver, So
8:49
Speaker 4: obviously he's going to play an important, you know, part
8:52
Speaker 4: in this, and then he steals the gun and you're
8:54
Speaker 4: asking yourself, like as a viewer, you're like, Okay, why
8:57
Speaker 4: on earth is he doing that? Why has no one
8:59
Speaker 4: mentioning it, no one looking at him doing this and
9:01
Speaker 4: everything like that. But then he gets away and it's
9:05
Speaker 4: fun and interesting, but it's like you said, John, like
9:09
Speaker 4: we're not with him, Like, if we're going to spend
9:11
Speaker 4: so much time with him for the rest of the movie,
9:15
Speaker 4: why aren't.
9:15
Speaker 5: We showing that?
9:16
Speaker 4: And so I was actually enjoying myself quite a bit
9:20
Speaker 4: seeing him get a little crazier and a little crazier
9:23
Speaker 4: where he's just like okay, like I'm I have this gun.
9:27
Speaker 4: You know, why did I get this gun? Like is
9:29
Speaker 4: he going to use the gun? Then he uses a
9:30
Speaker 4: gun and you're just like, oh, when he uses a
9:32
Speaker 4: gun for the first time, you're like, oh, he's an
9:34
Speaker 4: insane person, okay, Like he's he's on the crazy train.
9:40
Speaker 4: But for some reason, I want to ask you guys
9:42
Speaker 4: this that scene when he's working out and he's on
9:45
Speaker 4: the press or whatever kind of machine he's at, and
9:48
Speaker 4: it's clear he's hearing voices and he doesn't like these
9:51
Speaker 4: hearing voices. How did you feel about that? Was that
9:55
Speaker 4: too far? Was that a step too far? Was that
9:58
Speaker 4: in line with his progression? To me? I was just like, oh,
10:02
Speaker 4: I kind of I would have liked it if it
10:03
Speaker 4: was just a guy who snapped and now he's schizophrenic.
10:07
Speaker 2: I think part of that was a little too far.
10:11
Speaker 2: I mean, not that it didn't work, but I felt
10:15
Speaker 2: that this was a guy who was searching for a
10:20
Speaker 2: emotional high, and being a day trader was that high
10:24
Speaker 2: of like, oh, winning, losing big money, you know, the power,
10:28
Speaker 2: Like it's all about the power, and it wasn't doing
10:32
Speaker 2: it for him anymore. And so when the gun comes
10:35
Speaker 2: into his life, it it's like, you know, someone who's
10:41
Speaker 2: now has a drug that's you know, upping their dose
10:46
Speaker 2: and they're like, okay, I'm I'm now reacting off of that.
10:48
Speaker 2: And then you see him continue to try to take
10:50
Speaker 2: it farther and farther. But yeah, with the the hearing voices. Honestly,
10:58
Speaker 2: I think it could have worked without the voices. I
11:00
Speaker 2: think if it was just him falling down that well
11:05
Speaker 2: of you know, I mean, he's already brazen in just
11:08
Speaker 2: shooting people in broad daylight and not really even hiding it.
11:14
Speaker 2: But then as he just takes it step more and
11:16
Speaker 2: more and more. I think if you had had no
11:19
Speaker 2: voices and you're just it'd be more unnerving because he
11:24
Speaker 2: would have presented more of the everyman of like, what
11:28
Speaker 2: really pushed this guy this far? Is it just a
11:32
Speaker 2: high stress guy who just because he touched a gun,
11:36
Speaker 2: you know, went off the deep end?
11:37
Speaker 5: But what do you think, John, of all that.
11:40
Speaker 3: I think the voices is a bridge too far. I
11:44
Speaker 3: didn't think it was necessary at all. My reaction to
11:46
Speaker 3: it was, oh, we're doing okay, we're doing that now, okay, sure,
11:51
Speaker 3: and I was willing to roll with it. I think that,
11:54
Speaker 3: you know, to back it up where you're you know
11:57
Speaker 3: where you say, well, he gets a gun and suddenly
12:00
Speaker 3: he he was always? Was he always there? Did he
12:03
Speaker 3: get there? During this journey? I think that Bigelow is
12:08
Speaker 3: still showing a little bit of the newness of her
12:14
Speaker 3: directorial experience. Clumsy way of saying that, you know, she's
12:18
Speaker 3: still feeling her way here because I think.
12:21
Speaker 2: Specifically an event, not a freshman event, but it's progressing.
12:25
Speaker 3: I definitely reacted to the way certain things were staged.
12:31
Speaker 3: You mentioned him shooting the guy, you know, the rainy night.
12:34
Speaker 3: He trips and he falls, and I'm like, and the
12:36
Speaker 3: guy is just standing there as he's pulling up the
12:38
Speaker 3: guns slowly and he's like, whoa, my gosh, oh no,
12:42
Speaker 3: what are you doing? And I'm like, anybody else in
12:45
Speaker 3: the world has run so far and so fast, like
12:49
Speaker 3: why are you standing there?
12:51
Speaker 5: Run or along with you? And that's the thing is
12:54
Speaker 5: that the.
12:56
Speaker 3: Just make a choice, make a decision.
12:58
Speaker 4: And I know that we are all saying like, like,
13:01
Speaker 4: I know that there's probably some people saying like, oh, okay, well,
13:04
Speaker 4: you know, you don't know what you would do in
13:05
Speaker 4: that situation. Maybe he froze. But that's the thing that
13:08
Speaker 4: like they didn't show him freeze, Like they didn't show
13:11
Speaker 4: him freeze with fear. It was exactly like what you
13:15
Speaker 4: just did, John, And yeah, and so the guys all
13:19
Speaker 4: like the shooter Silver's already crazy. He's decided to do it.
13:23
Speaker 4: We don't see him like think about it, you know,
13:26
Speaker 4: like push it away or like consider it. It's like nope,
13:28
Speaker 4: he's doing it. And so either have him do it
13:31
Speaker 4: and do it quickly so the guy doesn't have to
13:33
Speaker 4: have a monologue of questions. But yeah, like yeah, like
13:39
Speaker 4: you said.
13:39
Speaker 3: But but I think you know, if you take big
13:42
Speaker 3: Low forward, just one more movie, she figures out staging
13:46
Speaker 3: a little bit better. And that scene right there, I'm thinking, well,
13:50
Speaker 3: why don't they accidentally collide into each other because they're
13:52
Speaker 3: both rushing in the rain, and the guy they both
13:55
Speaker 3: fall down. The guy's picking up his papers and he's
13:57
Speaker 3: berating Silver and he's like, you idiot, what do you do? Like,
14:00
Speaker 3: and we see him going after silver and like being
14:03
Speaker 3: verbally abusive to him, and then silver. You see that
14:06
Speaker 3: rage build up, and then he shoots the guy and
14:08
Speaker 3: he's like, oh my gosh, look what I did. Like, yeah,
14:11
Speaker 3: that's a much more compelling moment, and it's much more
14:16
Speaker 3: I would have been much more with it. I started
14:18
Speaker 3: to disconnect from the movie at that moment, in fact,
14:20
Speaker 3: because I was like, oh no, I'm this scene should
14:24
Speaker 3: have had real emotional impact with me, and instead I'm
14:28
Speaker 3: sitting here in the moment breaking it apart.
14:30
Speaker 4: To be fair, to be fair, I think they they
14:34
Speaker 4: were trying to show that there was no motivation other
14:37
Speaker 4: than he's crazy. Because let me, let me rephrase that,
14:41
Speaker 4: let me rephrase that, even though we wanted motivation there.
14:44
Speaker 4: We wanted some sort of emotion, like if they bumped
14:47
Speaker 4: into each other and the dude was super angry about it,
14:50
Speaker 4: Like watch where you're going, you know, like we've all
14:52
Speaker 4: been in that moment where you're like you bumped into
14:54
Speaker 4: me or the jerk that.
14:56
Speaker 5: Yeah.
14:56
Speaker 4: Then like then you get some sort of situation where
15:00
Speaker 4: like oh, he snapped, he just couldn't take it anymore.
15:02
Speaker 4: He had a gun and so he finally, you know,
15:05
Speaker 4: unleashed on this guy. This scene was to show even
15:08
Speaker 4: though I didn't particure, even though I didn't like the scene,
15:11
Speaker 4: you could tell that she made this scene so that
15:13
Speaker 4: it showed that he is doing this for no reason
15:16
Speaker 4: whatsoever other than just to see what it's like.
15:19
Speaker 3: Then the scene still works better at the guy and
15:21
Speaker 3: he never even talk and he just walks up to
15:23
Speaker 3: the guy. Guy's like hey, can I help.
15:27
Speaker 2: Absolutely, it feels like a you know, actor's troop of
15:31
Speaker 2: like okay, so here's the scene and a guy come
15:34
Speaker 2: up with you a gun and what do you do?
15:36
Speaker 2: And it's like we take those reactions and then we
15:38
Speaker 2: put them in the movie. And I'm not saying that's
15:40
Speaker 2: a good thing, but that we had that vibe.
15:42
Speaker 3: Well, it's even something where it's like, I don't understand
15:45
Speaker 3: how you're not in the editing bay and you view
15:48
Speaker 3: it and you're like, you know what if we cut
15:50
Speaker 3: a few shots here and we make this go half
15:53
Speaker 3: as long, how does that feel?
15:55
Speaker 5: Oh?
15:55
Speaker 3: Look, that's much more urgent, and you just you just
15:58
Speaker 3: keep cutting until you get down to a st point
16:00
Speaker 3: and then maybe add so you know, like it felt
16:03
Speaker 3: like there wasn't enough exploration with that scene. And I
16:07
Speaker 3: think that that is something that plays into the rest
16:09
Speaker 3: of the movie, but actually as much at a script
16:13
Speaker 3: level as anything else, because I'll go ahead and say it,
16:16
Speaker 3: and Tristian, I think you were trying to get to
16:17
Speaker 3: this earlier. Like there's a little bit of like protagonist
16:20
Speaker 3: confusion in a sense where Silver isn't so much an
16:24
Speaker 3: antagonist as almost like a protagonist, And I'm like, whose
16:27
Speaker 3: story does this movie really.
16:29
Speaker 5: Want to tell?
16:30
Speaker 3: And I have a feeling, in all honesty, like the
16:33
Speaker 3: vibe I get is that Bigelow wants to tell Jamie
16:36
Speaker 3: Lee Curtis's story, and the script wants to tell Ron
16:40
Speaker 3: Silver's story, and it never quite resolves itself, and so
16:45
Speaker 3: it never comes together as a cohesive whole for me.
16:50
Speaker 2: I think that's a really interesting point because I mean
16:53
Speaker 2: even the title Blue Steel, like it's about the gun,
16:57
Speaker 2: and the gun is in his hands, like it's I
17:02
Speaker 2: wouldn't go so far as to say it's the mcguffin,
17:04
Speaker 2: you know, but it is driving the plot in that regard.
17:08
Speaker 3: So yeah, there are.
17:09
Speaker 2: Definitely kind of two different forces vying for protagonistness. But
17:16
Speaker 2: it's not terrible in the fact that both of those
17:20
Speaker 2: stories keep colliding. You know, we have the interaction of
17:25
Speaker 2: the relationship that develops. I want to jump into the
17:31
Speaker 2: scene with her parents one. I feel sorry for you
17:36
Speaker 2: when your mother is kai Win again. I know that's
17:39
Speaker 2: not the Agnes's name, but you know, she shows up
17:43
Speaker 2: and I'm just like, oh, oh no.
17:46
Speaker 3: You know what I love most of all about that
17:48
Speaker 3: is much like both of you nerdlings. I also said,
17:52
Speaker 3: oh look it's kai Win, and then I took a second.
17:55
Speaker 3: I went, well, Nurse Ratchet from One flu The Cuckoo's
17:58
Speaker 3: Nest too, Sure, the Oscar winning role that she got,
18:00
Speaker 3: but kuy Wynn is the first one that I think of,
18:02
Speaker 3: So you know, way to go D Space nine No.
18:05
Speaker 2: Louise Fletcher, Yeah, and then wed already had a scene
18:09
Speaker 2: with the parents before, and we're trying to flesh that out.
18:12
Speaker 2: But when she walks in there and Eugene is sitting
18:16
Speaker 2: there and you're just you're, you're the pit in your
18:20
Speaker 2: stomach drops and you're just like, oh my gosh, this
18:23
Speaker 2: is not over.
18:24
Speaker 5: I mean, we all know it's not over, because the
18:25
Speaker 5: movie's not over.
18:26
Speaker 2: But you know, her, for Officer Megan, you know, her
18:31
Speaker 2: story is just getting worse. How did you guys react
18:35
Speaker 2: to that seeing it the first time, where again she's
18:39
Speaker 2: already gone through trying to stop him, the law is
18:43
Speaker 2: kind of on his side. It's no one's believing her,
18:47
Speaker 2: there's no evidence, and now he's sitting on the couch
18:51
Speaker 2: and she's trying to communicate to her parents but not
18:56
Speaker 2: And it's just like the te like, it's an amazing scene.
18:59
Speaker 2: The ten there is as thick as you know. You
19:02
Speaker 2: need to cut it, you need to cut the tension.
19:05
Speaker 2: What did you think of that scene?
19:07
Speaker 5: John?
19:08
Speaker 2: Did it elevate past the bumbling gun scene we just described.
19:15
Speaker 3: It's a good scene, and I think that what it
19:19
Speaker 3: speaks to is this movie is full of good scenes,
19:23
Speaker 3: and this would be one of those things where I
19:25
Speaker 3: started to get you know, maybe I'm tipping my hand
19:27
Speaker 3: a little bit about where I'm going to go with
19:29
Speaker 3: my rating, but like, this was one of those ones
19:30
Speaker 3: where I was like, Okay, all right, okay, okay, I'm
19:33
Speaker 3: familiar with this type of beat. This is where we're
19:35
Speaker 3: going to go with this. Okay, I'm vibing here, I
19:37
Speaker 3: get this. I like the way this is going. And instead,
19:41
Speaker 3: as I think back on it now, I'm like, oh,
19:42
Speaker 3: this is another It's like one of those moments where
19:45
Speaker 3: I'm like the movie started to pull me back in
19:48
Speaker 3: and then it kept going and I was like, well,
19:50
Speaker 3: all right, my goodwill is evaporated. Like so, I see
19:53
Speaker 3: it very representative of the movie as a whole, where
19:57
Speaker 3: I see a lot of wasted potential in that there
20:00
Speaker 3: are there's a sequence of interesting scenes, but they never
20:05
Speaker 3: gel quite the same, quite the way that I'm looking
20:08
Speaker 3: for them to gel. And you know, is that the
20:10
Speaker 3: fault of a sophomore effort on the part of the director?
20:15
Speaker 3: I mean, probably, But at the same time, you know,
20:19
Speaker 3: I don't she co wrote the script, so I can't
20:22
Speaker 3: sit there and be like, oh, well, she was, you know,
20:24
Speaker 3: given a script that she had to work with, and
20:26
Speaker 3: I'm like, but you know, I also don't know the
20:28
Speaker 3: behind the scenes to the point of like, did she
20:31
Speaker 3: take over the script and try to rework it or
20:35
Speaker 3: was it you know, from the very beginning, the two
20:38
Speaker 3: of them, you know, were working. You know, I know
20:41
Speaker 3: that it originally started with you know, Oliver Stone wanted
20:46
Speaker 3: to produce the movie or something like that. Then that's
20:49
Speaker 3: why he's still listed as a producer. But it's just yeah,
20:55
Speaker 3: so you know, I know that's that's going off down
20:58
Speaker 3: to a large point to say, summation, good scene representative
21:03
Speaker 3: of waste of potential of the movie.
21:05
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, either your thoughts on that scene, Tristan or
21:08
Speaker 2: another scene. You know from this there are many strung
21:11
Speaker 2: along on the highs and lows of this story.
21:15
Speaker 4: Yeah, this was one of those moments where I recognize
21:19
Speaker 4: how good of a relationship I have with my parents.
21:23
Speaker 4: Where if I was in a room and a dude
21:28
Speaker 4: came in that they didn't know, and they were stupid
21:30
Speaker 4: enough to let him in, and then I come in,
21:35
Speaker 4: I'm clearly nervous, and I say, hey.
21:37
Speaker 5: Mom and Dad, can I talk to you in the
21:39
Speaker 5: kitchen real quick?
21:40
Speaker 4: My mom and dad would go like, oh yeah, okay, okay, yeah, yeah,
21:44
Speaker 4: let's let's go have a pow wow. They wouldn't go
21:47
Speaker 4: we have company. Come on, we're going to ignore you
21:50
Speaker 4: right now.
21:52
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, good point.
21:54
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, like and again, she doesn't have a
21:57
Speaker 4: good relationship with the parents. That's clearly shown. And so
22:00
Speaker 4: I'm not criticizing that moment. It just illustrates the different
22:03
Speaker 4: lives that people have. I want to ask you, guys,
22:07
Speaker 4: how did you feel about the storyline of having an
22:12
Speaker 4: abusive father, Like I know that they tied that in
22:17
Speaker 4: to you know, like why she wanted to become a cop.
22:19
Speaker 4: You know, like she had like a rough childhood seeing
22:21
Speaker 4: her mom get beaten up and she's still getting beaten up.
22:25
Speaker 4: Did you think it was necessary to the character building
22:28
Speaker 4: of Jamie Lee Curtis or do you think it was
22:31
Speaker 4: kind of a hat on a hat, like wasn't needed
22:33
Speaker 4: in this movie.
22:34
Speaker 3: It wasn't executed well enough, Like so you feel like
22:37
Speaker 3: if it was executed well, it'd be okay to be
22:39
Speaker 3: in the movie or what I think if it felt
22:44
Speaker 3: like it was more in integral to the story arc
22:49
Speaker 3: and the conflict of the main character, Yes, it would
22:52
Speaker 3: have been a thing. But instead, it honestly feels like
22:56
Speaker 3: the result of a story conference where they were like, okay,
22:58
Speaker 3: well what's wrong with her and her parents? What's going
23:00
Speaker 3: on with that? And they you know, to your point
23:02
Speaker 3: about the workshopping there, and it's like and they workshop
23:05
Speaker 3: that thing, and they come up and it's like, well
23:06
Speaker 3: the dad, you know, we're never gonna outright say it,
23:09
Speaker 3: but we'll we'll drop a hint that the dad, you know,
23:12
Speaker 3: and then they'll have a moment and he'll swear he'll
23:14
Speaker 3: never do it again because what like, if this is
23:18
Speaker 3: something she's grown up with him being like I won't
23:21
Speaker 3: do it again, that that's like a holy water with her,
23:25
Speaker 3: you know, Like, so it feels tacked on.
23:28
Speaker 4: And also, did they explain why he hates cops?
23:30
Speaker 5: No, you know, my.
23:32
Speaker 2: Guess is just you know, they represent consequences and he
23:39
Speaker 2: wants to live in a world with no consequences to
23:42
Speaker 2: his actions against his family. Honestly, it could have been
23:46
Speaker 2: more interesting if she does take him to jail and
23:49
Speaker 2: he gets put in lock up and then she goes
23:51
Speaker 2: back home and then you Eugene is there, so now
23:55
Speaker 2: his her mom is there alone. So it's not that
24:00
Speaker 2: the Dad was much help, but like it's even worse.
24:04
Speaker 2: I don't know, just a I'm trying to take the
24:07
Speaker 2: hat off the hat but it's.
24:08
Speaker 3: Well well, and then the mom would have been too
24:11
Speaker 3: emotionally fragile in the moment to recognize the cues that
24:15
Speaker 3: she's dropping. But yeah, I don't think it works the
24:20
Speaker 3: way that it's executed in the movie. I really don't,
24:22
Speaker 3: and I think it should have been cast aside.
24:25
Speaker 2: So we've been talking a bit about you know, you
24:29
Speaker 2: had a good point, John of This movie has a
24:31
Speaker 2: lot of pretty good scenes that kind of sometimes feel
24:36
Speaker 2: strung together as opposed to cohesively flowing. This is not
24:40
Speaker 2: a terribly long movie. It's an hour forty two. It
24:43
Speaker 2: is fairly short by you know, modern movie standards. Does
24:49
Speaker 2: this movie, you know on a hole? Does it move
24:53
Speaker 2: along fast enough? Does it need a little trimming or editing,
24:57
Speaker 2: like another ten minutes shaved off? Or is it do
25:02
Speaker 2: we need all those moments to kind of get to
25:04
Speaker 2: know the kind of dual protagonists?
25:07
Speaker 5: What do you think, Tristan? I thought it was I
25:11
Speaker 5: thought it was well paced.
25:13
Speaker 4: I did like even though I have my issues with
25:15
Speaker 4: the film, and there's things that I wish they did better.
25:19
Speaker 4: There wasn't really too many moments that I felt like,
25:24
Speaker 4: oh man, what are we doing? Like this is weird,
25:26
Speaker 4: or like kind of stalling, even the stuff I didn't like,
25:30
Speaker 4: you know, like even the stuff that we've called out,
25:32
Speaker 4: like the scene where he shoots the guy for the
25:35
Speaker 4: first time. You know, even though it went on too long,
25:38
Speaker 4: it wasn't like, Okay, I'm getting bored. It was just
25:40
Speaker 4: kind of laughable. Or like the like the scene where
25:43
Speaker 4: he starts to hear voices. Even though I didn't really
25:45
Speaker 4: like the idea of him hearing voices and showcasing schizophrenia,
25:51
Speaker 4: that came out in a violent way. It didn't last
25:53
Speaker 4: that long, and so they were you know. The benefit
25:57
Speaker 4: of this being a collection of moments is that it
26:01
Speaker 4: moves very quickly. But one of the negative aspects of
26:03
Speaker 4: that is that it doesn't feel very cohesive and you're
26:06
Speaker 4: just jumping from one point to the next.
26:08
Speaker 3: Yeah, nothing I could really add to that. I think
26:10
Speaker 3: that's perfect summation of it.
26:14
Speaker 2: Yeah, on for me viewing this again, because I knew
26:17
Speaker 2: that the general plot, like I remembered it enough but
26:21
Speaker 2: not enough to remember like the exact order of the plot.
26:25
Speaker 2: Or you know, his progression into madness and all of that,
26:28
Speaker 2: so that I got to kind of enjoy almost fresh
26:32
Speaker 2: of like, oh and then he and then he showed
26:34
Speaker 2: up there. Oh and now he's here, and oh and
26:37
Speaker 2: he's There's that other psychological aspect of again. Power. It
26:42
Speaker 2: really comes down to power in a lot of ways,
26:44
Speaker 2: not just the gun, but he he's using the law
26:49
Speaker 2: and as power. He's using like the fact that she
26:53
Speaker 2: has no alibi or she has no witness and he
26:58
Speaker 2: honestly in the sea. I guess the most nitpick of
27:02
Speaker 2: shots was when the the lawyer guy was all berating
27:07
Speaker 2: her for Oh, he came up behind you. You didn't
27:10
Speaker 2: see him, so how could you have identified him?
27:13
Speaker 5: Just tell him you saw him.
27:15
Speaker 2: What's he gonna say? Like dishonest?
27:19
Speaker 3: And her tops are never dishonest. You are dishonored to
27:22
Speaker 3: that badge if you are dishonest, and she knows it,
27:25
Speaker 3: she's I was never gonna.
27:27
Speaker 4: Dreaming at the television, John, I think I even texted
27:31
Speaker 4: you where I'm like, at this point, you're just screaming
27:35
Speaker 4: at Jamie Lee. She's saying, just say that you looked up.
27:40
Speaker 4: You could even it wouldn't even be a lie. You
27:42
Speaker 4: could you could complain that scene she does look at him,
27:46
Speaker 4: she totally sees it's him. I'm like, what is she
27:49
Speaker 4: talking about?
27:49
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I was like, what's he gonna say? Well,
27:52
Speaker 2: that's not true, your honor, because I made sure I
27:55
Speaker 2: stood perfectly in front. Oh wait, oh oh you got me?
27:59
Speaker 3: Like what you could also you could also say that
28:03
Speaker 3: she recognized the fabric of the suit he wore apparently
28:06
Speaker 3: every day of his life and never changed out of
28:09
Speaker 3: except when he rubbed a bloody cloth on his face
28:12
Speaker 3: or something.
28:13
Speaker 2: So you know, yeah, that was I mean, it felt
28:18
Speaker 2: like a written into a corner, like it's a cool sequence,
28:22
Speaker 2: like our friend dies, there's e motion. But then you
28:25
Speaker 2: get to this logical conclusion with the lawyer and you're like, okay,
28:30
Speaker 2: how is he getting away this time? Because we're not
28:33
Speaker 2: ready to put him in jail or kill him. So
28:37
Speaker 2: she didn't see his face that's it. And you're like, okay,
28:41
Speaker 2: I guess sure, sure, but it's not very strong.
28:47
Speaker 3: It's a generous way to put it. Not very strong.
28:50
Speaker 4: So this makes me want to kind of jump into
28:54
Speaker 4: the next point I have, or the next feeling that
28:57
Speaker 4: I'm getting, is that there's that was kind of the
29:01
Speaker 4: beginning because you feel that before, before that moment, you're
29:05
Speaker 4: just like, okay, Jamie Lee, like you could you could
29:09
Speaker 4: say something a little bit better, Like you could defend
29:11
Speaker 4: yourself a little bit better. I know that she's a
29:13
Speaker 4: rookie and like it was literally her first job, first
29:16
Speaker 4: day on the job, but she still went through training.
29:20
Speaker 4: She's still an adult.
29:22
Speaker 5: You know.
29:22
Speaker 4: There's certain things where you're just like, Okay, people are dying,
29:26
Speaker 4: friends and loved ones are in danger. Now you you're
29:29
Speaker 4: just like, Okay, maybe you should protect yourself more, say
29:32
Speaker 4: stuff that you know, say stuff that's a little bit
29:34
Speaker 4: more coherent. And then when we get to the point
29:37
Speaker 4: where her best friend, her best friend in the world
29:40
Speaker 4: is gunned down in front of her, and then she's
29:44
Speaker 4: like and she doesn't have the capacity to say, yeah
29:47
Speaker 4: it was him, I saw him. He was holding me,
29:49
Speaker 4: I looked up whatever, blah blah blah. Like that's when
29:52
Speaker 4: you start to lose respect, or I should say, like
29:56
Speaker 4: you start to lose respect for Jamie Lee as the
29:59
Speaker 4: story goes on. But that was kind of the straw
30:01
Speaker 4: on the camel's back. And then after that scene with
30:05
Speaker 4: the lawyer, you just kind of as an audience member,
30:07
Speaker 4: I just kind of threw my hands in the air.
30:09
Speaker 4: I was like, Okay, we're just this is now looney Tunes.
30:12
Speaker 4: I'm now watching a cartoon, and and I think that's
30:17
Speaker 4: kind of what happened after that scene. Yes, things got
30:21
Speaker 4: so unbelievable, things got so crazy and out of the
30:27
Speaker 4: world of common sense that the only way this plot
30:30
Speaker 4: would have worked is because people make stupid decisions. And
30:35
Speaker 4: the killer has nine lives and he can take what
30:41
Speaker 4: six bullets to his body and he's just fine.
30:44
Speaker 5: All he has to do is just rip it out.
30:47
Speaker 3: You saw him working out. He obviously takes care of himself.
30:51
Speaker 3: It's not like it's not like digging in and pulling
30:53
Speaker 3: a bullet out of your bicep would cause you blinding
30:56
Speaker 3: agony that would force you to scream.
31:01
Speaker 2: Like with your bear.
31:02
Speaker 3: Figure out how now you can't know? And the thing, no, no,
31:07
Speaker 3: God please, that like that jis you're absolutely right. Like
31:11
Speaker 3: and we've we've we've all talked about like how a
31:13
Speaker 3: movie can go along and then by the time it
31:15
Speaker 3: hits the you know, the end, like a strong end
31:19
Speaker 3: and can really make you forgive a lot of what
31:21
Speaker 3: happened previous to that, and this is just a movie
31:25
Speaker 3: that any any attempts at cohesion fall apart from that
31:30
Speaker 3: point forward, where it's just like it's they're just throwing
31:34
Speaker 3: anything at the wall to see if it sticks, and
31:36
Speaker 3: they're like, okay, good enough, keep going, good enough, keep going,
31:39
Speaker 3: And then it all culminates in the most ludicrously unnecessary
31:44
Speaker 3: and stupid sex scene with her and Clancy Brown, where
31:49
Speaker 3: I'm like, where the hell did this come from?
31:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know what what. I don't know what
31:54
Speaker 2: that was.
31:56
Speaker 4: As I was watching it, and they're they're alone in
32:00
Speaker 4: I can't remember whose apartment they were in.
32:02
Speaker 5: I think it was hers. Yeah, it's hers.
32:05
Speaker 2: That's how he was there, and he knew because he
32:08
Speaker 2: wouldn't have been at Clancy's apartment. But you're you're right here, right,
32:11
Speaker 2: I'm giving credit and I don't want to give credits.
32:13
Speaker 4: So they're there, and then they start to embrace, and
32:17
Speaker 4: at the at that moment, you're just like, oh, they're
32:19
Speaker 4: just kind of comforting each other. And in that moment
32:23
Speaker 4: I said, in my head, oh, thank goodness they didn't
32:25
Speaker 4: have them kiss. That would have been ridiculous. And then
32:30
Speaker 4: like the very next shot is missionary position. You know,
32:33
Speaker 4: you're just like, whoa, whoa.
32:36
Speaker 3: Yeah, well maybe we could make it a little crazier,
32:40
Speaker 3: the movie seems to say. And I'm like, okay, let's
32:43
Speaker 3: just crank it up to eleven. And I'm not even
32:46
Speaker 3: going to talk about certain things that happened after that,
32:49
Speaker 3: because I you know, I'm I'm no prude. It's tough
32:54
Speaker 3: to shock, but I can objectively look at things sometimes
32:58
Speaker 3: and I can and I can say, this is really unnecessary. Guys,
33:03
Speaker 3: this did not need to go this way.
33:06
Speaker 4: Oh this Yeah, this wasn't even like a oh, why
33:09
Speaker 4: do you have to put sex into it?
33:10
Speaker 5: That has nothing to do with it? Zero.
33:13
Speaker 3: I'm talking about when Silver comes out. That moment is
33:17
Speaker 3: where really like super like it's nonsense with Clancy Brown.
33:22
Speaker 3: And then when Silver comes out and that happens, I'm like,
33:27
Speaker 3: oh what, No, you didn't need to do that, Like
33:30
Speaker 3: why are you doing this to your character?
33:32
Speaker 5: That's right?
33:34
Speaker 3: Yeah, you tried to you did block it, and I.
33:38
Speaker 2: Was starting to self on her and it was like,
33:41
Speaker 2: what is happening?
33:43
Speaker 4: Did he yeah, okay for those trigger warning, did he
33:46
Speaker 4: actually do it?
33:48
Speaker 5: Yeah? Was was he successful? In this?
33:50
Speaker 4: Was that what they were trying to say was what
33:52
Speaker 4: I genuinely blocked that from my brain. Can you not
33:58
Speaker 4: hear me anymore?
33:59
Speaker 2: You got really very.
34:01
Speaker 4: Louder, but you got to write Mike's select Okay, I'm
34:03
Speaker 4: gonna I'm gonna do it one more time. I genuinely
34:06
Speaker 4: block that from my brain until this moment. That pissed
34:10
Speaker 4: me off. So not only did you have an unnecessary
34:13
Speaker 4: sex scene that had nothing to do with the character,
34:16
Speaker 4: with character motivation or anything. And also side note, no
34:20
Speaker 4: offense to Clancy Brown, but just because I've seen him
34:22
Speaker 4: in so many different things, I don't see him as
34:25
Speaker 4: a sexual being whatsoever.
34:28
Speaker 3: And this is that's a very I would say that's
34:31
Speaker 3: a very fair comment.
34:33
Speaker 5: Thank you, very thank you.
34:34
Speaker 3: Although his hairstyle in this movie definitely an added disqualifying factor.
34:39
Speaker 4: Just gonna say that talented actor, freaking love them, very handsome,
34:44
Speaker 4: I just don't see him as a sexual being. And
34:46
Speaker 4: then to throw sexual assault into it that had that
34:51
Speaker 4: didn't need to be there. We're in the fourth quarter, folks.
34:55
Speaker 2: Mm hmm.
34:56
Speaker 5: You know what.
34:57
Speaker 3: It's it's mind again. It's they just start throwing a
35:01
Speaker 3: ton of stuff out there, and it's like, well, maybe
35:04
Speaker 3: this will work and I think that if I were
35:08
Speaker 3: a producer on the film and I'm viewing this coming together,
35:13
Speaker 3: I'm actually throwing this back and saying, all right, let's
35:18
Speaker 3: recut this. Yeah, I don't listen. Everybody loves to say,
35:23
Speaker 3: oh well it's a different time.
35:24
Speaker 5: No.
35:24
Speaker 3: Even back then, a scene like that would have gotten
35:27
Speaker 3: the reaction it is now. Even from teenage me, I'd
35:31
Speaker 3: have said, oh oh no, no, no, no, no, no,
35:35
Speaker 3: why are we no, why am I watching this happen?
35:37
Speaker 3: This ish like you can't like shield this with that
35:42
Speaker 3: sort of thing. It was like, well different. They wanted
35:44
Speaker 3: to have something, you know, shocking in the thing is like, no,
35:48
Speaker 3: everybody has always had drawn a very clear line like
35:51
Speaker 3: you better have like a stone cold, impenetrable reason for
35:56
Speaker 3: something like that in your movie. And this movie does
35:58
Speaker 3: not have that outside of shock value. And it's it
36:04
Speaker 3: was so disappointing to me that it's in there, so
36:07
Speaker 3: disappointing to me.
36:09
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, So pulling back, because we got we're
36:13
Speaker 2: at the very end and the probably the worst scene
36:15
Speaker 2: of the whole movie. But let's look back to to
36:18
Speaker 2: meeting Megan. In the very beginning. We're meeting her, she's graduating,
36:23
Speaker 2: we're seeing her at her friend's house. How did you
36:26
Speaker 2: at a directing level, how did you feel that Megan
36:30
Speaker 2: was portrayed as far as getting to know the protagonist?
36:33
Speaker 2: Do you think, because I think that was one thing
36:35
Speaker 2: that we kind of were, you know, harping on you know,
36:39
Speaker 2: her previous film with Near Dark, of not really getting
36:43
Speaker 2: to know these characters and just kind of on the road.
36:48
Speaker 2: But Megan I felt in a lot of those scenes,
36:51
Speaker 2: you know, getting set up by our friend, you know,
36:53
Speaker 2: all of that, like I was rooting for I liked
36:57
Speaker 2: this person, and I think that was a big growth
37:01
Speaker 2: directing wise for Catherine Bigelow.
37:05
Speaker 3: I Yes, the protagonist. She spent time establishing the supposed
37:12
Speaker 3: main character of the movie. That shows a lesson learned
37:16
Speaker 3: from Near Dark. I agree with you, like that shows
37:19
Speaker 3: if we're looking for growth in her sophomore effort. Two things.
37:24
Speaker 3: One is that spending time with the protagonists and getting
37:27
Speaker 3: to know that person and start to relate to them,
37:30
Speaker 3: that's good. Item number two is that I think her
37:35
Speaker 3: visual style starts to come together here. It progresses a
37:40
Speaker 3: bit like I look at this and seeing this for
37:43
Speaker 3: the first time, having seen later works, I'm like, Okay,
37:46
Speaker 3: I start to see Catherine Bigelow's visual sensibilities coming through here,
37:49
Speaker 3: like really coming through here. Like there are shots here
37:52
Speaker 3: where I'm like, oh okay, just even the energy of
37:55
Speaker 3: the way the camera's moving, I'm like, Okay, this is
37:57
Speaker 3: somebody getting her feet under her, who's getting a little
38:00
Speaker 3: bit more of a sense of herself. And so probably
38:03
Speaker 3: the way that that introduction comes together, that's that's showing
38:08
Speaker 3: another aspect of that.
38:09
Speaker 4: Also, I'm a huge sucker for the extreme close up
38:13
Speaker 4: title sequence all of that. I never get tired of
38:16
Speaker 4: that stuff. Oh and the somebody.
38:19
Speaker 2: Even tell what it is for like the first couple
38:21
Speaker 2: of shots, like it's like this amorphous metallic blob and
38:25
Speaker 2: you're like, oh, I'm like literally looking down the barrel
38:28
Speaker 2: of a gun.
38:29
Speaker 4: Well, the I was a cinematographer called it. The cinematographer
38:34
Speaker 4: called it an erotic opening of mechanics and danger.
38:40
Speaker 3: That should be on the poster.
38:42
Speaker 2: No, that's the tagline for the movie.
38:44
Speaker 3: But the thing is, that's that's one of those things
38:46
Speaker 3: where I hear that, I'm like, oh, okay, sort of
38:50
Speaker 3: the same way I'm reading you know, the critics reactions
38:54
Speaker 3: of the time, and I just got to read this
38:56
Speaker 3: because Okay, big spoilers here. Anybody who knows me or
39:00
Speaker 3: is listen to me podcasting forever long whatever. I love
39:04
Speaker 3: Halloween like that is not just the holiday, but the
39:07
Speaker 3: movie by John Carpenter, which Shami Lee Curtis, you know
39:09
Speaker 3: that was a big brib like blah blah blah, Like
39:12
Speaker 3: I adore that film. I absolutely love it top to bottom.
39:14
Speaker 3: I've probably seen it as many times as Star Wars.
39:17
Speaker 3: I made the effort recently to go see it in
39:19
Speaker 3: the movie theater for the like I was. I'm on
39:22
Speaker 3: board with it, okay, And Roger Ebert and somebody from
39:27
Speaker 3: Entertainment Weekly both compared it. Roger Ebert called it a
39:31
Speaker 3: sophisticated update of Halloween, and then the person for Entertainment
39:35
Speaker 3: Weekly says, it's Halloween nineteen ninety and I'm looking at it,
39:39
Speaker 3: and I gotta ask you two, you guys, aren't Halloween
39:42
Speaker 3: fans on the scale that I am? Does this it
39:45
Speaker 3: all resemble Halloween? Or is this Critics that are just
39:47
Speaker 3: dismissively like, oh, it has a bad man who's tough
39:51
Speaker 3: to stop. It's just like Halloween. I'm like it, like
39:55
Speaker 3: that's like me looking at the screen by Edward Lunch
40:00
Speaker 3: and going like, hmm, he too uses paint That's just
40:03
Speaker 3: like a Picasso. I'm like, they're both paintings, but they
40:08
Speaker 3: do not resemble.
40:09
Speaker 4: The only connection is you have Jamie Lee Curtis and
40:13
Speaker 4: a villain who's a bullet sponge. I mean, yeah, I
40:16
Speaker 4: guess that's it. Yeah, that's it.
40:20
Speaker 5: I don't know. I'm at a loss.
40:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, i'd see what you're saying, John, and I like Halloween.
40:25
Speaker 2: I'm not an officionado as much as you are, but
40:29
Speaker 2: I will say that, yeah, you're seeing Jamie Lee. That's
40:34
Speaker 2: obviously the main connection. And besides the bullet sponge, I
40:38
Speaker 2: will say, at a macro level, macro lens level, you have,
40:45
Speaker 2: you know, a villain who's popping up around every corner,
40:48
Speaker 2: like you get that, but we're actually spending time with
40:51
Speaker 2: that villain, like we're taking that to another level as
40:54
Speaker 2: opposed to just the shape. We never know his motivation.
40:58
Speaker 2: So I think they're trying to write a headline that
41:02
Speaker 2: uses the word Halloween, but I could see there is
41:06
Speaker 2: something there.
41:07
Speaker 5: Whether back in the day, Yes.
41:10
Speaker 3: If it had been written for SEO back in nineteen ninety,
41:13
Speaker 3: i'd have been like, yes, okay, Darren, you have a
41:16
Speaker 3: valid point. They're just trying to, you know, draw the traffic.
41:18
Speaker 3: But no, Like it makes me question whether these critics
41:23
Speaker 3: watched other movies at any point. I'm like, anyway, you know,
41:29
Speaker 3: is the take as bad as the score? Don't know?
41:32
Speaker 3: Love Brad Fidelle's work in Terminator and Terminator Too and
41:36
Speaker 3: a couple of other things, but do not love it here?
41:39
Speaker 3: Do not love it here? Am I am? I off base?
41:42
Speaker 5: Here?
41:43
Speaker 4: Do you guys love Brad Feeddale's score? I couldn't even
41:46
Speaker 4: tell you a single note.
41:47
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's wickedly out of place. It's like, you know,
41:53
Speaker 3: I guess she couldn't get any actors or actresses that
41:56
Speaker 3: worked with James Cameron for this one. So he's like, eh,
41:59
Speaker 3: take compose it. That's fine, and just like thro threw
42:02
Speaker 3: him over there.
42:03
Speaker 2: It's kind of interesting because she worked with Jamie Lee
42:06
Speaker 2: before James Cameron did, because he wouldn't do True Lies
42:11
Speaker 2: until ninety four, four years after this.
42:13
Speaker 3: Yes that's true. So ah, so there you go. So
42:15
Speaker 3: the relationship invertse there verse. I like that this good point.
42:19
Speaker 4: This feels so much older than True Lies. I don't
42:23
Speaker 4: know why, but like that blew my mind, Darren when
42:27
Speaker 4: you said four years later she makes true. That's just
42:31
Speaker 4: it feels like ten years later.
42:33
Speaker 3: I think, honestly, so many aspects of this movie feel
42:37
Speaker 3: like and I think this is supported by like the
42:39
Speaker 3: production history that like it's something that ges stated for
42:43
Speaker 3: a while. This feels like a script that was written
42:46
Speaker 3: in the early eighties that sat around and then finally
42:49
Speaker 3: got made in nineteen ninety, and so it carries forward
42:52
Speaker 3: that sensibilities.
42:53
Speaker 2: Film that happened to be made in nineteen ninety.
42:56
Speaker 3: Yeah, this was like clearing out the script bin sort
42:59
Speaker 3: of vibe it. At least that's my take, no disrespect intended.
43:04
Speaker 2: And as far as like success, I mean, like you said,
43:07
Speaker 2: it fared decently on the on the ratings, but I
43:11
Speaker 2: kept trying to find the budget slash box office and
43:15
Speaker 2: I got the same number for both. So I don't
43:18
Speaker 2: know if that actually is true that it had an
43:20
Speaker 2: eight point two million dollar budget and an eight point
43:22
Speaker 2: two million dollar box office. I could be but all
43:27
Speaker 2: that to say, I don't think it was a resounding success,
43:31
Speaker 2: but it also probably didn't cost a crazy ton of
43:35
Speaker 2: money to make, So yeah, it does.
43:38
Speaker 3: The middle of the road it was not a success.
43:42
Speaker 3: It was definitely not a success. But what I want
43:44
Speaker 3: to ask Tristan is did he catch the the tie
43:49
Speaker 3: into Futurama in this film. It's okay if you do, man.
43:55
Speaker 3: My female reporter was one legendary Lauren Tom who was
44:01
Speaker 3: known as nass Lauren. Yep, she said it blink and
44:04
Speaker 3: you miss it sort of thing. But it's if it
44:07
Speaker 3: hadn't been called out, I'd be like, wait a minute,
44:09
Speaker 3: what and like I went back, I was like, yeah, okay,
44:12
Speaker 3: all right then, yeah, so there you go. There's your
44:15
Speaker 3: Futurama Taian. I don't think we have enough Futurama Tians
44:19
Speaker 3: to make it like a when we did the Lance
44:22
Speaker 3: thing for a while, but I wish we could. That
44:25
Speaker 3: would be great. And uh you know, oh actually, and
44:29
Speaker 3: I'll call out Tom Sizemore as generic robber number five
44:34
Speaker 3: number one. Yeah, in the beginning. We'll go on to
44:38
Speaker 3: work again with Ms Bigelow in her very respected film
44:43
Speaker 3: Strange Days in the nineties.
44:47
Speaker 2: That's right, all right, Well, I think we've we've poked
44:50
Speaker 2: at this film. We've have yet to have the book
44:55
Speaker 2: thrown at us by our chief of police, because that
44:57
Speaker 2: seems to happen all the time.
45:00
Speaker 5: I will say this is also one.
45:01
Speaker 2: Of those movies, you know, early nineties, late eighty movies
45:05
Speaker 2: often do this for me, where I'll see these actors,
45:08
Speaker 2: and I've seen them in so many things since the nineties.
45:11
Speaker 2: They looked like babies. Like I'm like, oh my gosh,
45:14
Speaker 2: you're so young in this, Like you know, it's like, oh,
45:17
Speaker 2: here's the dad from Transformers and oh here's you know,
45:20
Speaker 2: Clancy Brown. It's like, but they look like they just
45:23
Speaker 2: graduated acting academy. I know they didn't, but it always
45:28
Speaker 2: happens with movies for me of this decade, for the
45:31
Speaker 2: right age. All right, well, let's go to our ratings
45:36
Speaker 2: for Blue Steel. I'm going to go first. I'm going
45:40
Speaker 2: to give this a three. It's an increase from the
45:45
Speaker 2: two I gave for Near Dark. I think it was
45:50
Speaker 2: I I was engaged. Every time he showed up. It
45:55
Speaker 2: affected me. It twisted my innerds. I was like, oh
45:57
Speaker 2: my gosh, like, how's she going to get out of it?
45:59
Speaker 2: Like I knew she'd get it.
46:00
Speaker 5: Out of it. You know, she's the main character.
46:02
Speaker 2: But I always will give a movie credit when it
46:05
Speaker 2: makes me care about the protagonists and care about the
46:08
Speaker 2: situation and the deck is stacked so heavily against her
46:13
Speaker 2: as far as people not believing her and being a
46:17
Speaker 2: like I felt like, I know she had her best friend,
46:21
Speaker 2: but she was really in it alone. Like she was
46:26
Speaker 2: barely knew you know, Clancy Brown, She barely knew anyone
46:29
Speaker 2: on the forest. It was just her against the world.
46:33
Speaker 2: And I think Catherine leaned into that of like, not
46:37
Speaker 2: only are you in a dangerous situation, but people aren't
46:40
Speaker 2: believing you and you're trying to defend, Like there's a
46:43
Speaker 2: lot stacked against her, and so to see her rise
46:45
Speaker 2: over that was very triumphant. But I am definitely looking
46:50
Speaker 2: forward to our next installment for for Kevin Bigelow. As
46:53
Speaker 2: she continues to I think take great strides forward. So
46:58
Speaker 2: three three bullets in the chamber for me, they all say,
47:02
Speaker 2: Megan Turner on them. What about you, John, how are
47:07
Speaker 2: you ranking this the first time you've seen it?
47:11
Speaker 3: Lacking the nostalgia lens that I clearly acknowledged. I was
47:15
Speaker 3: watching Near Dark through this is a two, and I
47:20
Speaker 3: feel I'm being generous with a two because I looked
47:24
Speaker 3: at this also through the lens of looking for the
47:30
Speaker 3: talents of Catherine Bigelow showing themselves. But I think that
47:35
Speaker 3: what's missing here is there's still as much disorganization as
47:40
Speaker 3: Near Dark, but I'm not having as much lack of
47:45
Speaker 3: a better word, as much fun watching it, and I'm
47:49
Speaker 3: not enjoying it as much. And then that ending is
47:53
Speaker 3: absolutely I mean, it's lucky it's not winding up with
47:55
Speaker 3: a one because that assault scene at the end, I
47:59
Speaker 3: legitimately hate it, and I think it's dumb and unnecessary.
48:05
Speaker 3: And so in a sense, if I keep talking, I
48:10
Speaker 3: might wind up lowering my ratings. So I'll just land
48:12
Speaker 3: with a two and walk away.
48:14
Speaker 2: Very good, John, what about you, Tristan.
48:19
Speaker 5: I'm with John.
48:21
Speaker 4: I wanted to give this a two point five because
48:24
Speaker 4: I felt like it started off with a good idea
48:27
Speaker 4: and I was with the characters, I was with Jamie Lee.
48:31
Speaker 5: But then it just went off the rails.
48:33
Speaker 4: And as we've talked about before, you know, and John,
48:36
Speaker 4: you talked about how when there's a movie that has
48:41
Speaker 4: some you know, fluctuations or some missteps as it goes out,
48:46
Speaker 4: but then really sticks to landing, you can forgive a lot.
48:49
Speaker 4: This is the opposite of that. This is a movie
48:53
Speaker 4: that starts okay, starts to meander, then gets really weird,
48:58
Speaker 4: and then you're just throwing your hand up in the area.
49:00
Speaker 5: You're like, that sucked.
49:03
Speaker 4: So I wanted to give it a little bit better
49:04
Speaker 4: than Near Dark, but I'm giving it straight up to
49:07
Speaker 4: same as I gave Near Dark. I will never watch
49:09
Speaker 4: this again, and I am looking forward to moving on.
49:14
Speaker 5: All right.
49:15
Speaker 2: So, speaking of moving on, next week, we're going to
49:18
Speaker 2: be continuing in the House of Big Low with nineteen
49:21
Speaker 2: ninety one's point break. Here on, house Lights
49:26
Speaker 1: Join the Revolution, Join the net Party.