Latest / Reborn w/ Antonio Boutros / The Truth About Success: Money vs. Purpose with Fernando Bravo

Transcript

The Truth About Success: Money vs. Purpose with Fernando Bravo · Reborn w/ Antonio Boutros

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Reborn Podcast with Tony Gutros, where we dive deep into personal development, Christianity, leadership, and entrepreneurship.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: Today we have a truly inspiring guest, Fernando Bravo.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: Fernando's journey from Hillsdale College to working with the classical learning test exemplifies a life dedicated to purpose, mentorship, and investing in others.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: His insight on finding true happiness, building meaningful relationships, and leading with faith are sure to leave a lasting impact.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: Let's get started and learn more about Fernando's incredible story.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: Fernando, thank you so much for being here, brother.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for having me, Tony.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, first question for you, man.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: As an entrepreneur, I am not a big college traditional school guy.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, tell me about your decision to go back to school and how it has shaped your purpose in life.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, definitely.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: This all started back in 2016.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: I was a junior in high school and had recently joined a network marketing business.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: So all throughout my junior year, senior year, I was heavily focused on entrepreneurship.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, my goal was to retire young, to be able to travel the world, uh, to give conferences to people within that business world.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: And through one of my first conferences, I attended in Portland.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: The leaders of the business were starting a new organization that had nothing to do with the business, but they were sponsoring this new nonprofit with the mission of educating young adults in the principles and values that define our country through the American story.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: So they were inviting 40 students to apply to a trip to attend um to Washington, D.C., all expenses paid.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: And for me at the time, even though I didn't understand what the organization was all about, I heard that it was a free trip and I was like, you know what, I gotta do it.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: I gotta apply it.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, so they were offering this opportunity because their network is all around the US.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: So every convention they would go to, they would offer the opportunity to young adults.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I applied and thankfully was one of the adult young adults that were accepted.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: So I ended up going to Washington, D.C.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: and I met all these different people from different states.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I came to realize that this wasn't just an opportunity to go to a go to a new place and meet new people and call it good, but this was more an introduction to the organization itself, to what they were doing and what they wanted to start doing.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: At the time, most of the students were first generation Americans because they were kids of people who were within that business network who were mostly Hispanic.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's a Hispanic organization.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so what was appealing to most of us, I'd say, if not all of us, was the opportunity and the ability to truly understand our identity as Americans.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: Because I feel like a lot of first-generation families that that are born here, um, you don't they don't really understand what it means to be an American because all they hear growing up is this is a land of opportunity.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: You gotta work hard for what you want, you gotta find your passion, and this country offers you all of these things, but they don't really understand why our country is structured the way it is, why is our government structured the way it is?
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: And yes, I have freedom, but what is my responsibility with that freedom?
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: What does freedom mean in the first place?
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: You know, freedom is not just the ability to do whatever you want to do.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so all these things are all questions that I think we're all born with, and we all find answers to them, you know, somehow as we grow up and as we encounter the world through whatever education system, through our families, through our experiences.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_01: So, what this organization did for me was it exposed me to a new way of viewing the world uh through a more conservative lens, and it taught me what the relationship between my political view, my worldview, and my identity as a Christian, how they all intersected and what my responsibility was, but also helping me understand my role as my my civic role and also my who I am as a human being and as a Christian.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: So all these things were inspired, uh inspired me to truly start diving into these big ideas, and specifically through my friendship and and as as mentors with Bailey and Spencer Emerald, who were the um directors of this organization, um, I got to know them and meet him in person at least once a year.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_01: And to me, it was sort of like understanding the final product and uh what this kind of education did.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they attended uh Hillslow College, a liberal arts education, and so I never visited the school, but what it did do was I was able to see the kind of people it produced, you know, people who were able to think, to communicate well, but also to understand a deeper meaning of of life and to be able to share that with other people in the most humble way.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um right.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: So to me it was that inspiration that that caused me to re-evaluate my priorities at the time.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, you know, money was still important, but I think at the time what I needed was to be able to keep diving into these truths, knowing that they would impact every aspect of my life moving forward.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: So to me, it was like an investment, you know, and as someone who didn't believe in college, who, you know, only saw college as an opportunity to gain a lot of information for a career.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: I mean um at the time I was like, you know what, this is truly an opportunity to grow as a person.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: So my mindset was all along, I'm not gonna go here to, you know, seek a career, I'm gonna go here to seek becoming a certain kind of person.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: Knowing that rather than setting a specific goal in life, saying I wanna, as I was at the time, saying I wanted to retire, you know, two to five years, uh, make this much amount of money.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: Now it was more about who do I have to be?
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know, who what kind of a person do I have to be?
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_01: Knowing that God would put the right opportunity in front of me to be able to live up to his plan for my life.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: And ever since then, that's been the that's been the mission.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot to dissect there, bro.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: A lot to dissect.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: So going from wanting to retire in two to five years, what does freedom mean being a better person rather than having a uh a glorious or glamorous career?
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, did you mention what the conference name was or the the conference you went to in DC?
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: So so yeah, the DC conference was the first um official DC summit for the Windrill Scratch.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, gotcha.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and it's something they'd be doing every year.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: Now, when you were talking, one of the things that came to mind is a recent sermon I heard last weekend uh uh about being a Christian coming before being uh in politics.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: Uh now, obviously, my belief is that most Christians inherently are conservative because the values are just more similar than being a liberal.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: Uh but how are you able to understand what it means to be an American, what it means to work hard, what it means to have opportunity, while still placing God before politics?
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, like you said, it your identity comes first through him.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: And when he defines who you are as a person, he also defines what you love.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that our actions are governed by our passions, which are rooted in our heart, and our heart is rooted in you know what do we place as the highest value in our life.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: So if he is the highest value um politically, it'll also affect the way we see the opportunity and the freedom to be able to work hard for what we want.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I think naturally, as Christians, we'll want to be generous with our money.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: But in order to be generous, you have to be able to have that choice from the government, you know, which is why I think that most people lean conservatives, because conservatism means that you're conserving the values that define our country, the truths that don't change, the truths of what it means to be a person, the fact that, you know, there's two genders, the truths that say all life has value, and this country offers us all the opportunity to work hard for what we want and to be rewarded for our work.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I think that it all comes down to you know being governed by a certain kind of love and letting that love govern the way you view politics.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: And then for the most part, for Christians, that's I think that's why they end up being conservatives, because conservatism aligns very well with the ability to have the freedom as a Christian to choose where to serve, how to serve, how much to give according to your means, and not according to a certain tax that may that that's out of your control and that you don't even know where that money's going.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I think with tithing specifically, it's easy for people who are blessed financially to give X amount of money, which I my my personal belief is that when you give time, money, energy, whatever resource you're giving, it should, in some sense, be uncomfortable.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: You should be able to feel that you're actually giving rather than I'm worth a billion dollars and I'm giving five grand, which to most people think looks like a you know a monthly income, but to me that's five grand out of a billion dollars that I have in a bay.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that's another big thing.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: When you were talking, another thing that came to mind is James uh 2.14.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I was looking at it up just now.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, one of the recurring things to me has been uh faith without works is dead.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think that's what you were kind of touching on with being a conservative is God will provide, but you still have to work.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: I I personally relate a lot to the Simon Peter story with where he was fishing uh on Sabbath, like literally half a dozen of them were fishing and caught not one fish.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: And uh he was gonna be arrested, possibly executed by the Romans.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: They saw people on the on the shore and they thought it was the Romans coming to arrest them.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: They're like, man, they're not even waiting for me to go back to them.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_00: They're coming to get me.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: They go back to the shore and it's Jesus, and he says, drop your nets.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, they're they're in they're in shallow water because they're I mean, they're they're on the dock, and they drop their nets and they can barely get it up because how how much fish.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: So he's working.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: He is new, he's I mean, he's been faithful his whole life, but new to Jesus, and then they combine faith without works is dead, but faith.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: I have another mentor who says faith with works is alive and well, which is not how the Bible says it, but it's kind of the inverse of what the Bible does say.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: And then I think works are are naturally a fruit of your faith, you know, and then I think that's why there's a very deep connection between your ability to work and your ability to have faith and to truly love God, because I think that one follows the other, but it all begins with with faith, and then he will naturally give you that gift and he will allow you to feel that pleasure from doing what's right for working, because as we're called to imitate Christ, what does Christ do?
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: You know, he works, his whole life he worked, and if we can share in that work and whatever we do in life, I mean that's that's the ultimate calling, and and I think it's also the ultimate form of happiness.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: And he worked humbly, which is another big thing.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: That could be a whole episode in the in in and of itself.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: But oh yeah.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: Next question I think I do have for you before we go into that and and go on a 10-hour tangent on the hump the the humbleness or humility of Christ.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: Uh when did you realize?
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I think we kind of touched on this a little bit already, but when did you realize that true happiness comes from purpose and not money?
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it sounds like the defining moment would have been this trip to DC.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: It was definitely a moment that initially sowed a seed, but I don't think it was fully realized until a couple years later.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think at first as a as an entrepreneur, you know, I saw success and happiness as the ability to, you know, travel, wake up whenever I wanted to be able to provide for my family.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I do think that's important, but I also don't think that that in itself will make you happy.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I was able to experience um traveling to other parts of the US through this nonprofit for a couple yearly conferences, or a conference and a retreat.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I find my I found myself constantly thinking that I I was thinking about the next trip and the next experience rather than actually enjoying the moment and the present.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I was also sad that it was gonna end because they were usually two to three day long activities.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: And and so I was like, well, if even if I am able to do this full-time, I'm always just gonna be thinking about the next, the next thing, you know, and then the next, the next meal, the next site to see, um, the next person to talk to and to meet.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: And and to me, it just felt kind of empty.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so same thing goes with with the money aspect.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I started working full-time and then I was able to buy some of the things I've always wanted to have, like a guitar, a nice guitar, um, some nice Bluetooth speakers, you know, those little things that growing up, you you always see like one day I'll be able to buy them.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, they made me happy for for a while, but then after it just kind of fade away.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: So I being being able to understand that that didn't work.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: And then I think a good conversation that also was was impactful to me was talking to someone that was my age, um, and she had a business and she was very successful in it.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: And she told us about how she was able to build this really successful business with her brothers for uh in a period of two years.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but in the end, even though she had achieved all her financial goals, she talked about how she was still the same insecure person with the same fears, and and that she truly didn't feel fulfilled as a person, even though she had reached her financial goals.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: So to me, that was a clear sign that while finances were important at the time and they continued to be, I I also had to set my goals on things that lasted beyond materialistic a materialistic presence and beyond this world, honestly.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: You know, to be able to invest in God's kingdom and to be able to look ahead not only in you know this life, but then in the life ahead as a personal belief, I think has been a very fruitful exercise and has definitely changed the way I view happiness and success.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: It sounds like with God having transformed your values from being money to being purpose.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: What was there some anxiety back then that led to that that desire for money and power and sleeping in?
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, as a man, you want to be able to provide for your family.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: So that's I think something that is of God, but also doing it ethnically and serving his his will with his power for his uh for his glory.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: I I think it was more than anything a lack of trust and and a and a security in money rather than a security in God.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um because when I went to school, I didn't know how I was gonna pay for school.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, that forced me to just say, you know what, if this is the opportunity that that came up, and I'm trusting in God in the same way that he ex gave me the opportunity to be accepted into the school the second time I applied, he would also provide financially.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_01: And he did, you know, I still have student loans, but I don't have as as many as I would have if I if I would have um the opportunities that he provided for me, I didn't know what they would have been at the time.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_01: But I still tried to leap with it.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: You know, so I I think that has been a very, very important aspect in in my journey as well, is learning that my trust is ultimately in God and then he'll provide financially as long as I am walking in obedience in whatever I do.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: So not that money is bad, you know, it's just that I think sometimes we we feel too we we feel like it that is what gives us our security, and and I think that's where you're because when you lose it, then all of a sudden you lose all security.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: And uh Matthew 6 24, I don't mean to to preach, but no one can serve two masters.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you'll be devoted to the one and despise the other.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: You cannot serve, and it specifically says you cannot serve both God and money.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't say whatever other idols, power, fame, or it says money specifically.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that's definitely a temptation that many people have.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, both people who have an abundance and people who do not.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I do want to touch on what you had mentioned with the young woman uh having the fears and the insecurity even after achieving her financial goals.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: I would say I definitely uh can relate to that.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: Uh just a few months ago, I kind of shifted from having my identity and being an entrepreneur rather than being in Christ.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: And after that shift, I began feeling a lot more secure and faithful and confident and joyful and and so on.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: And and I think the most the most pressing thing for me is is grateful.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I was talking about I was talking with a brother last night about what's like the one word.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: I asked him what's the one word you think of, what do you think of price?
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: And for me, it was it was grateful because he's transformed my life.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: I can make X dollars, whatever I want to make, and still feel unfulfilled.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: Because money, it doesn't bring people say it doesn't bring happiness.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: I think in some sense it does bring freedom.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it it definitely allows you to feel a bit more relieved.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I used to pull up to the gas station and I would I would have anxiety pulling up to the gas station because I could barely afford to pay for gas.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: So that, you know, just even like small stuff like that is very, very helpful um and and relieving.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: But I also understand that I'm borrowing the money from Christ.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's not mine, it's it's his that he's given me to steward.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: So I can definitely personally relate to that.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and and the same applies to your time.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's another thing I think is as an entrepreneur, your time is more valuable than your money.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: And so it can be much it can be much easier to say, oh, I don't have the time, but I'll give this amount of money.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: So I I don't want to self-glorify, or there's a better word for that.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: But I I try to do my best to give both time and money, both uh, like I serve in some you know, youth ministries that I feel purpose and and driven towards, uh, but I also give financially.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: And that I think that balance of not only giving time or not only giving money, if you are, I think if you're abundant in your most people are either abundant in time or abundant in money.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: If you're abundant in money, it's almost better for you to give more time and vice versa.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: If you're abundant in time, give more money.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: Make it again, making it uncomfortable in a sense.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: Now, one thing that's been huge for me is mentorships, uh, masterminds I've gone to, individual mentors I've had.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: Uh on our on our conversation, we were just talking offline.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: You had mentioned uh having better relationships with your mentors while you're in school.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: Good questions, there.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: How did how did these relationships impact your personal and professional growth as well as how have you navigated your personal and professional growth without having as much access to these mentors after school?
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so to answer the first question, the ability to find people who are further ahead of you in life in certain aspects, um, and then to connect with them was a very valuable experience for me as a student because one of my biggest goals as a student and as a Christian was to grow in character and to grow in my faith.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I was able to connect with the campus chaplain and to be able to have a one-on-one with him every week.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the biggest fruit of that was both the accountability, the being able to set goals and then have someone that I was accountable to.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: But also being able to see what does it actually look like to have a good friendship and to be a good friend.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that to be it, to learn to be a good friend, you have to have a good friend that's that's willing to teach you because we can all think that to be a good friend means X, you know, but but at the at the end of the day, if you haven't experienced it, you won't know how to do it and it won't come from a genuine place.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: So specifically with my relationship and my faith with Christ, as I was able to grow in him and in his love, that also impacted how I my other relationships and friendships, both in college and outside of college, you know, with my family, with old friends.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I was able to take this perspective of, you know, I'm not having this conversation with you because I want something from you, but it's more I have a certain abundance with God and what he's doing in my life, and I want to be able to share that with you.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: And then we both relate to the same creator.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: So we are sharing in our love of him in the same way that a couple friends get together, uh, through a love of sports, through a love of fishing, through a love of certain hobby.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I think as Christians, we the healthiest way to view our friendships is in the mutual love that we have for Christ.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_01: So by sharing in that love, that's how we relate to each other.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: And and so that's that's how um I I was able to be more impactful as a person, but these these friendships were mainly rooted in Christ and then his love.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: And then that has also affected the way I see other people, but also the philosophy and mentality I have when I meet someone new, and it and it's not as self-centered or or self-interested as as it used to be at the time.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: And it is something I mean, it's easier said than done, you know.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: And then I think sometimes there is a temptation to say, what can this guy give me, or what opportunity can I get from this relationship or friendship?
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: But if you have that constant reminder and you're constantly growing in Christ, you'll naturally govern your loves and you'll naturally place uh the important ones on top so that you can avoid these temptations or overcome them.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_01: And and to answer your second question about how I've navigated life after college with mentorships and all that, to be honest, it is something I'm still working on.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: I've reached out to people who I was in contact with in the past throughout school, and I've been able to connect with a couple of them.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_01: And so I want to be able to be more consistent and more disciplined with those conversations, even though they won't be in person anymore.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: I still see the value in having those people that already know me and have invested so much into me.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and knowing that the investment doesn't end with me, but the investment continues with me.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_01: So great.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: And it's also been a struggle since I am still figuring out where I'm gonna live long term, you know, to be able to invest in a certain local mentorship relationship has been has been tricky.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: But as soon as I do figure out what that's gonna look like, I'll definitely start with the church, you know, looking at guys I I admire and respect and um being willing to learn from them and then to see how our friendship can be mutually beneficial, you know.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the the ability to I I think a common question always arises with friendships and and mentorship relationships, uh especially in the Christian world, is you know, how do I know if this is fruitful?
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: How do I know if this is actually a good friendship?
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: Because sometimes one of the two feels like they're not growing as much or they just don't see the fruit.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the best way to determine this is if at least one of you is growing in his faith and in his love of Christ, then the friendship should continue.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I think if one at least one is growing, the other one is also growing consequently.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, I think it's it's a fair assessment because it's not determined by how much am I how much fun am I having or or how much am I learning, you know.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: But it's it's at least one of us growing in this faith, and if that's the case, great, continue.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think that's important if at least one is growing in faith and it's a good friendship, rather than having it as fun, because there's I think there's there's a definitely a time for fun, but it's also time for learning and and serious discipleship.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_00: So, for example, where we met at Forge uh Leadership Summit, we go through the serious stuff, the the leadership development and the political stuff during the day at night, we're singing songs or dancing, having fun on the rooftop, and it's uh it's a good time.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_00: But throughout that whole time, both when it's more serious and when it's more you know let loose a little bit, we're still developing our faith in our leadership and our our uh fellowship.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: And so it does it's not a matter of maybe we think the rooftop is more fun.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe some people think that you know being in the in the political sphere is more fun.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: That's not really my arena, but I'm sure there are people that prefer that over dancing and whatnot.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: So that, and then I love that quote you said uh with it with mentors, uh, investment does not end with me, it continues with me, passing it down to the next generations.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and I know you actually pass it down to a lot of people who even are our are our age uh as well.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe necessarily the next generations, but our generation.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: How can we be intentional for I think it does become a habit, like you mentioned, in the beginning, how can we be intentional in first and foremost, being brothers and sisters in Christ rather than being worldly and caring about what we can get from people?
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_01: It all starts with alighting your love the right way, and then that all starts with a genuine relationship with Christ, you know, morning, morning uh devotionals, afternoon prayers, evening devotionals, all these things, spending time with him, and being faithful that he's gonna do what he wants to do according to his time with that time that you set.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, not wanting to expect any sort of supernatural feeling or power or ability to you know see the future as a consequence, but rather to see as a consistent exercise that will take time, but sooner or later um you're gonna be able to see and and to look back on your life and to say, wow, I'm I'm not annoyed by the same things anymore.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: Or I have a certain kind of love for people that I didn't used to have.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um or I genuinely want to meet and get to know this person, and you know, I don't really care about what they're gonna do for me, but I genuinely just want to value them as people.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: And this all comes with a personal relationship with Christ.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I think that's how it's not a matter of setting a certain rule for yourself and then telling yourself, you know what, from now on I'm gonna start seeing people as um God's children and I'm gonna invest with them.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, that's important.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: But I think it genuinely begins with the heart because everything else will follow.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, your your way of communicating, um, choosing what to say, what not to say, when to say it, you know, all these things.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um people who you actually talk to, these will all naturally be affected as soon as you start affecting the inner, the inner self, which is you know the heart, through your friendship with Christ.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: I think in some cases it can actually become worse if you are thinking about exactly what I want to say, exactly uh how I want to say it, and so on.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: Because then it just becomes unreal.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's not you, it's uh it's not it's not authentic.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I do want to bring up a tangible example of what you were just talking about.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I had two brothers in Christ who really have two brothers in Christ who really spoke into me before I was Christian.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_00: I've spoken about this on the podcast a couple of times, and we might have spoken about it as well.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um they spoke into me with a lot of conviction.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_00: And honestly, like I said before, I thought they were really corny in the beginning, uh, but I spoke into me with a lot of conviction about Christ, and ultimately that was a big, big catalyst towards my coming to Christ.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: And recently, uh from Forge, somehow I don't know how it got in my head, but I deemed a new catchphrase, which is with his power for uh, or I'm sorry, his will with his power for his glory.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I called my friend and I one of the friends who I was talking about, uh, one of the two people, and he said you should put that on a shirt.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_00: I want to put it on a Shopify, printed pie, whatever.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, man, this is not my thing.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I'm a I'm a people person.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: I like talking to people's sales marketing.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_00: I have the business, I come in, I have some and money I can invest, but like that sitting at a screen is not my thing.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_00: And funny enough, he is in the industry.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_00: He is a data analyst, which I'm definitely not a numbers guy.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_00: I joke uh one of my business coaches all the time.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, we're always going over KPI's Excel spreadsheets.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, man, I gotta go get my ibuprofen uh what's when I meet with you because it's I'm looking at all these numbers, and I again that's not my thing.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_00: My thing is talking to people.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but but all all this to say he came into my life, he was a big uh part of me coming to Christ, and now we're gonna be starting uh apparel company together.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_00: No idea when we first met that that was gonna happen.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: We had an hour plus conversation again that brought me ultimately to Christ and just happened to be uh by God's will that we have opposite skill traits.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: He already has experience, I have money, he has time, I have opposite like it all actually works out, and it's just amazing that we definitely did not come into the relationship knowing anything about that.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_00: My business that I currently run is was non-existent back then, and so God definitely works in very uh interesting ways sometimes, and and very uh grateful for that.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_00: So even and and that's not to tell people, hey, you want to build a relationship because God might work in an interesting way, but he might.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_00: You never know.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_00: So, but still building relationships without uh authenticity, right?
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_01: And then one thing always leads to another, like you said.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_01: No, you you you don't want to figure out the whole roadmap because then it would be boring.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's like watching the end of the movie, then what's the point of watching the the start?
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_01: Right, you know, and then I mean having that trust that he's gonna take care of it, and now your your job is to move and to make the next best decision according to the wisdom and knowledge you have.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's that's all you can do.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm gonna I'm gonna push back on that a little bit.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_00: I heard a speech, not really a sermon, a speech uh in a memory's group a few months ago, beginning of the year of uh February or something.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_00: And the guy said, Um, God will show you the end, he will show you where you will be, who you will become, but he won't show you all the steps there because that's where your faith comes into play step by step.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: So you follow his discernment, his will with his power for his glory, uh, and he will get you to that vision and he's shown you.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: So pushing back on that a little bit about showing you the end, I think I kind of have an idea of what my vision for my life is, or yeah, of what I'm saying.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_01: I can get behind that in terms of you know what the end looks like as a person, and then you know that it is within your control to become that kind of person.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um although circumstantially, you know what career you'll have, what business you'll end up with, all these things are still to be decided.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_01: But but the things that we do know for certain are the ones that we can set as as the goal, but also will become the means to the other things.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_01: So I I can definitely get behind that.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_00: I and I I think that's yeah, that's for sure.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like I right now I'm gonna have a real estate business and I'm gonna have a now a new apparel business.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_00: I know I want to go into private equity, own you know, a big portfolio of businesses.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know exactly what sort of businesses.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe it'll be HVAC, window, whatever you know, businesses correlate with real estate.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe it'll be something else.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um I really can't say at this point.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_00: So, but I trust that God is gonna unveil that plan.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_00: Hopefully, like I said, within the next three to five years, it might be next 30 to 50.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_00: So we'll see how uh how God's plan works that out.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_00: But uh, we were mentioning earlier again, uh the investment does not end with me, it continues with me.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_00: How do you guide young adults in building a worldview that balances goal setting, as we were talking about before, goal setting in the future with being present today, here and now?
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_01: That that is something.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um going back to one of the other questions when you talked about happiness and purpose.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_01: The the way I saw these these mentors, you know, Spencer and Bailey, enjoy the present was truly also a deciding factor of me wanting to learn a lot of the things that they learned and then to view life that same way.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_01: And so when you're able to to see life and to see the mundane and to truly take joy from it, you know, take joy from making yourself a meal, take joy from cleaning the dishes.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, you take joy from going to sleep at an adequate time.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_01: As you're able to do that and to see the fruits, then you're also a walking testimony of that philosophy, and now you're able to pass it on to other people.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_01: So now the question is how do I teach someone something that has helped me and how do I spark that curiosity?
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I I really stand behind the the phrase that people don't care how much you know until they know how much you care.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_01: And you show people that you care about them by adding value to their lives.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_01: And how do you add value?
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_01: I think it all starts with listening.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it doesn't start with proving yourself or proving your character.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_01: Uh through whatever interaction you have, your character is gonna be proof, you know, proven.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um then but they will truly see that you care about them and you care about who they are as people when you start asking questions and when you listen to them.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_01: And and as people talk about themselves, you listen, you you're able to see who they are as people, you're able to see a deeper side of their humanity that most people aren't willing to see because they're not willing to ask the questions and to spend that time, then they'll start asking you questions.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, how do you go about this?
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_01: Or I I I noticed this in you.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_01: Can you can you tell me more about the things that have helped you overcome a certain fear, certain struggle to build a certain habit?
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's where it all starts, is knowing that people will come to respect you over time because your character will naturally I mean, you'll naturally emanate who you are, you know, regardless of however you start.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_01: If you start genuine, it's gonna continue genuine.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_01: If you start fake, then they're gonna see past that over time.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and once they do, you know, get to know you and you get to know them.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_01: That I think it it naturally just works out so that they become curious and who you are and then they want to learn from you.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_01: And then you're able to teach them things that you already know that they work because they've already worked into your life.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_01: And if they haven't, then I mean what what are you gonna teach them?
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_00: I think also asking questions allows you to foster and build and maintain genuine relationships, whereas I think a lot of people who are not aware love to talk about themselves.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_00: And it's because that's easy.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_00: I know exactly what I did yesterday.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_00: Well, not really, I I don't know what I had for lunch this morning or breakfast this morning, to be honest with you.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_00: But uh it's easier to talk about myself.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes for people, it's like I'm asking I think I think so.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_00: I think what I'm trying to say is that uh another thing I would I would touch on is is asking questions genuinely, genuinely wanting to get to know people, genuinely wanting to build relationships, and then seeing them unveil as opposed to just talking about this is me, this is what I've done, why I'm here, etc.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, another thing uh you I don't think you said this exactly, but taking joy from humility, making yourself a meal, cleaning, sleeping, as high achievers, we are often told by society we need to work, work, work, work, work and maximize our time and never do anything like make yourself a meal disorder DoorDash or whatever.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and it reminds me of a mentor I was recently at his house, and I saw him, I mean, can easily afford to hire a maid, but I saw him washing dishes.
• 37:45
  unknown: Right.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I my my train of thought was when I have a family, I'm gonna just because I want to have like several children, I'm just gonna hire maids for all that stuff.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_00: But then seeing him washing dishes, and then also thinking about uh I used to do some DoorDash and whatnot myself.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_00: I remember making a delivery, and I I opened a door, or well, they opened a door at a barge enter room.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, they opened a door and I saw inside, and it was like a Thursday afternoon, and there was like you know, there's a sun, 2 p.m., atle shape, chips on his lap, and plays video games, and like, but that's that kind of showed me like I could hire service providers and all that, but that might be how my children turn out, versus I know how how my mentor's children have turned out, and he's washing dishes, and Jesus washed feet.
• 38:38
  unknown: Right.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_00: I think I think whenever we we we start getting an ego, all we have to think about is Jesus washed feet.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's that's powerful stuff, right?
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um and and the way Jesus responded to to people was through questions, through questions and parables.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_01: He did, he never gave up straight up answers.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um to answer your question, your your specific question, because I don't think I actually addressed how how I about how I invest in other young adults and to willingness and ability to view uh the balance between goal setting and being present.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_01: I think it starts with, you know, as we're talking about how we actually gain their influence by showing genuine interest and genuine care and humility.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_01: It starts with leading the way.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_01: You know, when you lead the way and you leave and you show them how you live your life, they'll naturally follow along and like I said, ask you questions and be wanting to be willing to learn from you.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_01: And when it comes to goal setting specifically, as you lead the way and as you show them the things that govern your life, the things that you love and and and high the things that drive your passions, your interests, then they will also begin to ask themselves and reevaluate, you know, what is it that is governing, governing me, and what is it that I want to be governing me?
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_01: And in that way, as they place that love in the in the highest place where it belongs, their goals will will naturally align with that love.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so you don't necessarily I don't think there's a perfect uh goal technique, goal setting technique.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_01: There's not a perfect accountability um structure to where you can say, oh, well, you know, they follow you follow these three steps and then you will succeed.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's like, no, it starts with first of all, let's ask yourselves, what are you doing?
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_01: Why are you doing it?
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_01: Is that the right reason?
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_01: And if it is, then whatever technique or structure or um method you use to set goals will work.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_01: But the but the first thing is not knowing how to set a goal and how to balance that with being present.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_01: The first thing starts with internal growth and realization of the things that are worthwhile to pursue and the things that are worthwhile to love and like the present itself, you know, and I think naturally the goals will align and follow up with those ideals.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_00: You have transitioned from a period of being an entrepreneur and having some success as an entrepreneur, and I'm sure when you add that entrepreneurial success, you led people who were inspired by what you were doing uh to now being a leader in what you're currently doing.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, how has your faith and relationship with God influenced your leadership style and adapted it uh and and your approach to helping others?
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, if I could summarize it, I'd say genuine leadership requires genuine love.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_01: And genuine love requires a genuine source, which for me as a Christian is Christ.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_01: And so as I love him, I know how to love others well, but it's not necessarily that I have that in mind, it's it's more just a natural leaders.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_01: And and so learning from him, learning to imitate him, like you know, what we were talking about with um the work aspect and the humility aspect, all these things have been contributing factors and understanding that I've been placed in a certain opportunity, as glamorous or not as it is to serve God.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_01: And and and because of that, it's worthwhile.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's worthwhile for me to perform it to my best ability.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_01: But it is also worthwhile to understand that all glory goes to him in the same way that all criticism goes to him, because you're basically giving everything to him.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_01: You know, when you act and you start to be successful in a certain area, people will naturally criticize you and people will naturally see you because you know you're doing something different.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_01: And then I think as you learn to give God the glory and you also learn to give him the criticism, then it's not it, it doesn't fall on you, but it falls on him, and he also takes all the credit.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_01: So you see yourself as a vessel for him to do his work, and in that sense, that is what gives you a certain sense of purpose, but also it gives you the ability to not desire credit when you do certain things that other people get credit for.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you you're happy that other people are getting recognized when you might not be recognized because you're understanding that the bigger goal is being accomplished, and that is all your all your focus should be on on the mission and not necessarily your personal um status being elevated by whatever you do or your personal financial or monetary success.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like, no, man, this is this is all irrelevant when you understand that God has placed you somewhere to be affected for his glory and his kingdom.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_00: Do you ever still have the worldly desires creep in with financial or anything else of the world uh as opposed to of the kingdom?
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_00: And how do you combat combat those thoughts?
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_01: I I do, I do, and you know I've it is uh also a recurring struggle, and then I think the first the first thing I do is to be thankful for that experience because.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: Because it teaches me that as much as I know, as much as I've learned, I still have a ton of room to grow in because of the fact that I'm experiencing that.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think there are opportunities for God to say, hey, you're not all that great.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you're not all that smart.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_01: And if if you've had any success, it's it's not because of you or your your greatness, but it's because of me and the gifts that I've given you.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_01: So for me, I always take it as an opportunity to reevaluate my my own ability to find strength in God and not necessarily in myself.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's always a constant reminder of like, wow, this is this is tough.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_01: And oh, wait, yeah, it's tough because I'm not relying on God and He's showing me that I can't truly do it for myself.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_01: So when I when I switch to that mindset, and I'm grateful for that experience, that that helps me to realign my views with God's purpose and not and not focus as much on you know what do I want in the moment.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_00: What do you find most rewarding about investing in other people's growth and development?
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_01: The fact that the fruits of that investment are eternal.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_01: And it's it's it's just it's a different feeling when when you hear about how you impacted someone that maybe you didn't even know you impacted them.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_01: And to be able to hear stories about people being inspired by your own story, and that's where you you're able to learn to give the credit to God and to say, wow, I experienced all these things because yeah, they helped me grow as a person, but guess what?
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_01: They also helped you relate to other people, and then so the difficulties we experience in in life and in and hardships as we become better people, as we grow in our faith.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_01: God uses all these experiences to help you relate to other people as well.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_01: And then they see themselves in your story.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that that's been one of the most rewarding aspects is knowing that he's able to turn all of this negativity and all of my failures into lessons that I I haven't only benefited from, but also other people.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_01: And it's really cool to see how other people are impacted by by those lessons.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_01: Whether you realize it or not, you know, a lot of people have been impacted by your own story.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_01: And even if they haven't told you it's something, it is a truth to keep in mind because I I've had multiple experiences where people have come to me from two or three years later after I had decided to go back to school and they said, Hey, Fernando, remember that conversation we had, or remember um you sharing your story, and then and that was truly a moment for me to reevaluate what was important in my life, and then for me to want to continue and pursue um an education that that would help me become a better person.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_01: And and so to me, those experiences are worth are worthwhile, and and they're an opportunity to see God's investment and then the fruits of his investment in yourself because as they start affecting other people, you know, it's that it's transcending you and it's going beyond your own benefit, but you're able to see how he's truly using you as a as a means to build his kingdom.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_00: Being thankful for what others, especially in the moment, may objectively see as as bad things, which is can definitely be difficult.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I I know some people who have recently lost loved ones that you know were very, very young.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I was I was journaling the other day on mental health, on you know, my mental health journey growing up.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_00: And but I can tangibly see why I've been through that journey and why uh other people some of it is in inexplicable, but down the line we see that it was his will, um, and and why it how it starts to all unfold in a good manner that we wouldn't have had if we didn't have those things that were objectively bad by the world, uh, or called by the world.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_00: So with that said, what was the biggest challenge you faced during your transition from college with the mentors community to working, especially virtually working, uh, for the classical learning test, and how did you overcome it?
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Killsville College is one of those institutions that it is truly a bubble because it's out there in the middle of nowhere, about an hour and a half from Detroit.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_01: Uh for me coming from a bigger city, and I I live like 20 minutes away from Portland, Oregon.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_01: The the slogan for Portland has always been keep Portland weird.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_01: And in the past, that weirdness was you know people being quirky and then being you know themselves, and now that weirdness has turned into people walking around the streets with you know a leash around their necks.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_01: And then that's something that I've seen.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_01: I I saw um during uh a summer break a couple years ago, and um, and then that weirdness has become ha ha ha ha you know that I'm not even gonna go into it.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_01: You already know where where I'm what I'm referring to.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_01: But Hill College is blessed to be a community of people who share similar ideas and values, yet still they're all able to debate with each other about things that they disagree with theologically or philosophically.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a very vibrant environment in that sense.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_01: And and to me, it was definitely a place that was comforting and it was challenging, but also comforting because I knew that I was surrounded by people that loved Christ, regardless of our disagreements in other areas.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_01: And and and so that came with mentors, that came with deep friendships, that came with deep experiences, both in uh church, you know, worship, um, to be able to have music nights where we would get together and just jam out and then sing songs around the campfire.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like all these experiences that I had were were very, very much experiences that defined me as a person and that that gave me uh an ability to enjoy the moment as we're talking about and to create and to build all these habits.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_01: And and so what I've realized since I've been out of college is that a lot of my identity at the time revolved around my connection to the institution, to school.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_01: And what and I was applying um for a job after school with with this nonprofit, and and you know, all my hopes were in this position, and and I was like, wow, this is all this is all making sense.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_01: God has truly taken me through this journey of entrepreneurship to education to now being able to invest in other people through this nonprofit.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_01: And in the end, it didn't end up working out.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_01: And so what I've realized is that part of part of how I see God working in all of this in my life is in that he's teaching me to understand my identity outside of a particular group of people, outside of an identity as a college student or a position or a certain title.
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_01: But he's truly making me ask myself, you know, who am I as a as a person?
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_01: What is it that defines me?
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_01: And in this case, it's it's truly starting to be a relationship with Christ.
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_01: And while he and while he was always present throughout this journey, I think there was always a temptation to also let a certain position within my extracurricular involvement or even as a student to be the one that defined me.
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_01: And and it would have been a temptation with a specific role with a nonprofit.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_01: So I that that has been one of the most difficult things is to be put pulled away from an environment that was growing me as a person, spiritually, with with friends, socially.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_01: And then now I'm in this place where you know I'm not as accountable as I was to my mentors because I'm not in contact with them as frequently.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so I've had to relearn these habits that I was able to cultivate throughout the last two and a half years, and I've had to reapply them and to reevaluate my motives.
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_01: And now it's not just a motive of, oh, I told someone I was gonna do something and I have to do it, or I have an essay coming up tomorrow and I'm gonna be disciplined to go to sleep early.
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_01: But now it's I'm doing all these things because God is calling me to be a certain kind of person, He's calling me to obey.
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'm learning to realign my lifestyle around that idea and not just in a commitment with a person or a responsibility with a class or an organization.
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_01: And so that that has been it's been difficult.
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_01: It hasn't been easy at all.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but thankfully this week I find myself having more time when I work, when I work a job or when I when I'm committed to when I'm committed to things throughout the day than having, let's say, a free day and saying, oh, I have so much day time this day, I'm gonna do all the little to-do lists.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like I like for me, it just doesn't work like that.
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_01: For me, I've actually found myself having more time working a full-time job because I have to structure my day accordingly.
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_01: And it's also fun to check off boxes.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a very box, I I I love checkbox checklists, you know.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_01: So ever having the opportunity to make a checklist, I I I take advantage of, and and it's been it's been great in that sense, you know.
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_01: But I think it the the most difficult transition was having faith that God was going to provide an alternate opportunity and and knowing that all of my spiritual growth, development, and and habits had to revolve around him and not around a specific organization or responsibility.
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_01: So thankfully, this specific organization, it's it's great.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_01: They they've they've been great with um following up with me and educating me in the role itself, but I also really see their humanity and you know, the classical learning test, their mission is to reconnect knowledge and virtue by providing meaningful assessments and connections to seekers of truth, goodness, and beauty.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so this very much aligns with my education in terms of the things that I see in life that are worthwhile.
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_01: And and then I think to all of us, regardless of your faith, you know, we all see goodness, truth, and beauty in our lives.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_01: And and these transcendental virtues are what give us a sense of purpose, a sense of gratitude, a sense of happiness.
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_01: And so to be able to work for an organization that has that that values people, that values passion, that values um the humanity more than anything of people, I think it's it's been a big blessing.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_01: And even though the meetings are virtual, I I really do, and I have enjoyed conversations with a lot of my coworkers.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, God has provided and he's gonna continue to provide.
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_01: And it was also a good test of saying, like, wow, even though I I thought that he had a certain plan for me, that wasn't the case, but I I trusted him and he was able to provide.
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_01: But actually, when we were out there in Nashville, is when I interviewed and that's the weekly offered me the job.
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_01: So it's pretty cool to see.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_00: Amen.
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_00: I I had one thing just repeating in my head while you while you were talking.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_00: You said his deal is a bubble, and you were talking about people on leashes, which is certainly interesting.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome back.
• 55:21
  SPEAKER_00: I can't make this stuff out, bro.
• 55:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like no.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to reality, which is an insane reality that you would never even think to you would see in a fantasy movie, but right, uh it is reality.
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_00: I luckily I've never actually seen that in person, so I'm I'm blessed in that way.
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_00: But um welcome back to the real world, brother.
• 55:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's a different world, man.
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_01: I was at Walmart yesterday, and just to get you know, a pair of socks, you have to press a button for someone to come and open the case.
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just it's insane.
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_01: They they have everything locked down because of the amount of theft.
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_01: Oh wow.
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_01: And and and yesterday my parents were driving back from Costco, and there were a bunch of uh paramedics and police cars outside of a hospital.
• 56:12
  SPEAKER_01: Apparently, someone was driving recklessly and they had to put the guy down.
• 56:17
  SPEAKER_01: So it's just it's a crazy world, man.
• 56:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's it's not the same.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_01: It was already crazy enough.
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_01: And then sadly, it just comes down to people's beliefs and values and how they've manifested politically as well.
• 56:31
  SPEAKER_00: Beginning of our conversation.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_01: That's a whole other conversation.
• 56:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 56:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's a lot of there's a lot of conversations in this conversation that could become full conference-long, week-long conference topics.
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um including what I'm actually about to ask.
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_00: We were talking about the the beginning of the conversation, we're talking about uh your identity as Americans and and what freedom means.
• 56:59
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, offline, we talked about your how you definitely define freedom.
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_00: And you said you define freedom as the ability to choose to do the right thing.
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_00: Can you elaborate on how this principle guides your decisions and actions?
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 57:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think it was Plato that said that the purpose of education was to learn to uh learn to love what one not to love and to hate what will not to hate.
• 57:26
  SPEAKER_01: And so this is all talking about a transformation of the heart.
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_01: And in life, we all know the things we should do according to the goals we have, but the challenges and actually doing them.
• 57:39
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 57:39
  SPEAKER_01: And and so we we realize that even though we have free will, oftentimes we're actually more slaves to our passions than we are free to act on the things that we know we should act on.
• 57:53
  SPEAKER_01: So as we learn to that, I mean this all goes back to loving what you ought to love, as Plato says, and for Christians, it's loving God.
• 58:04
  SPEAKER_01: And as you love God, your will aligns with his will.
• 58:07
  SPEAKER_01: You're able to choose to act on what's right, not because of the information that you learn, but because of his transformation of your heart.
• 58:16
  SPEAKER_01: So there is a certain logical aspect, you know, to you saying, Oh, if I go to sleep late, I'm gonna be tired out throughout the day tomorrow.
• 58:24
  SPEAKER_01: And those kind of that kind of thought process does influence your actions.
• 58:29
  SPEAKER_01: But I think a bigger influence is truly, you know, what is that guiding force behind your actions?
• 58:35
  SPEAKER_01: And that is what are you truly passionate about, which is answered by what do you love?
• 58:41
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 58:42
  SPEAKER_01: So that's that's how I I think that freedom comes into play in all of this, is that we're not truly free, because if we were truly free, we'd be able to logically say on paper, I want to do all these things and actually do them, but you know, none of us have that ability.
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_01: And if we do, then it's because we've been able to transform our loves and our passions according to the right things.
• 59:03
  SPEAKER_01: So I I always like the analogy of someone who can play an instrument very well, a musician, you have a piano in front of someone who can't play it at all, they can just bang on the keys and make a lot of noise.
• 59:17
  SPEAKER_01: They could freely choose what keys to to press, but they they're not going to make a melody.
• 59:22
  SPEAKER_01: And someone who has studied music, someone who has gone through the rigorous process of learning how melodies work, um, learning scales, learning how to read notes, uh, they are they're people who are able to freely play how the instrument is supposed to be played.
• 59:40
  SPEAKER_01: So, in the same way that a musician is truly free to play the instrument according to his nature, we as human beings become truly free to live lives according to our nature when we align our purpose and our love according to God's will.
• 59:57
  SPEAKER_00: So we are in a prison built by our own desires, loves, passions being misguided.
• 1:00:08
  SPEAKER_01: Pretty much, yeah.
• 1:00:11
  SPEAKER_00: That's powerful.
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:00:14
  SPEAKER_01: I think we used to live in a swallow, but I think I mean yeah, it makes sense to me at least, and historically it's it's been um an ongoing conversation.
• 1:00:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I think I think there's a lot of truth to that.
• 1:00:28
  SPEAKER_00: The the first thing you said was we know what we need to do if we don't do them.
• 1:00:35
  SPEAKER_00: I think we used to live in a world, you know, pre-internet that there was a lack of information since the internet.
• 1:00:42
  SPEAKER_00: We have all the information we need to accomplish anything we need or want.
• 1:00:47
  SPEAKER_00: The thing is there's so much information, there's almost too much information uh that we that we don't take action um because we don't have the faith that, for example, I can go look up right now how to start a business and study it my entire life and never actually start a business because I don't have the faith that it's actually gonna work for me.
• 1:01:11
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a special snowflake, so it's not gonna work for me.
• 1:01:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I think, yeah, it lack of taking action, lack of or misguided passions.
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, one of my daily prayers is let my thoughts, deeds, and words be good and pleasing to the Lord and uh do his will with his power for his glory and uh discernment.
• 1:01:41
  SPEAKER_00: And uh what is what is the last one?
• 1:01:46
  SPEAKER_00: I just added one in this uh a couple weeks ago.
• 1:01:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um indifference, praying any for that.
• 1:01:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's not his will to be indifferent to it.
• 1:01:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:01:57
  SPEAKER_00: And that it God answers prayers, he he shows you the clarity of what you should be focused on, what you should love, what you should be passionate about, um, and and so on.
• 1:02:08
  SPEAKER_00: So that's that's that's another topic uh that could be all day or all week.
• 1:02:14
  SPEAKER_00: But uh a couple last things for you.
• 1:02:18
  SPEAKER_00: How did your experiences at Hillsdale and your involvement?
• 1:02:23
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I know you said just for a short time with Rinrose, uh, contribute to developing your philosophy on leadership and life.
• 1:02:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I've talked a lot about my the internal growth and then the internal internal guiding force behind my decisions.
• 1:02:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but more specifically, you know, on a on a more general um basis, the the being able to go to a to a place that challenges you to think and that challenges you to write essays and to communicate your thoughts on paper.
• 1:02:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um and then I also had the opportunity to be a part of organizations within within the campus that were a volunteer organization called A Few Good Men, where we would uh lead student groups of volunteers and we would volunteer throughout the week, helping people with their basic needs like landscaping or painting, snow removal.
• 1:03:17
  SPEAKER_01: And so all these all these experiences gave me practical insights in terms of how to lead people and and also asking myself, you know, what is what is my my role here as a leader?
• 1:03:29
  SPEAKER_01: And then my role more than anything was to help the organization grow.
• 1:03:32
  SPEAKER_01: But it all started with really loving to learn the people.
• 1:03:35
  SPEAKER_01: So my experiences at the college and in Winrose all taught me that leadership is universal and then leadership is service, leadership is influence, and all these things are not going to be genuine unless your love for those people are is genuine.
• 1:03:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so it all comes back to to the faith and then to the relationship with Christ, and then to know that to effectively understand the mission and to execute it, to do what you should do, to love people the right way, you know, it it all starts with having a relationship with Christ.
• 1:04:09
  SPEAKER_01: And so these experiences gave me, I think, being able to say yes to things that were uncomfortable, simple things like working at a contact center with a group of students that were also in the room and being scared of the first 10 phone calls that I had.
• 1:04:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because the room was all quiet.
• 1:04:26
  SPEAKER_01: It was just me saying, you know, thank you for calling Hillsville College.
• 1:04:29
  SPEAKER_01: My name is Fernando, I'm student here, how can I help you?
• 1:04:31
  SPEAKER_01: Knowing that I didn't really know how to help them.
• 1:04:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:04:35
  SPEAKER_01: So little things like that, you know, also public speaking, reading scripture on a Sunday in front of the whole church.
• 1:04:42
  SPEAKER_01: These were challenges that that to me were terrifying.
• 1:04:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I I said yes to them, and I said yes to them because I knew that the pain of regret looking back of not doing it would be greater than the temporary discomfort.
• 1:04:56
  SPEAKER_01: But I also said yes to them because I knew that God was placing all these opportunities for me to learn different aspects that are important to leadership and to to serving, you know, like public speaking, like learning to organize groups, like learning to organize a schedule, and then all these practical things that align with the heart of leadership, which is in my opinion, service and influence.
• 1:05:26
  SPEAKER_00: Good though.
• 1:05:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's good.
• 1:05:29
  SPEAKER_00: So I I have one question I always ask every single guest that comes on, and that is what is if you could only give one piece of advice, what is the best piece of advice you would give to uh young leaders or or leaders in general who are too focused on future goals and not present?
• 1:05:48
  SPEAKER_00: What's the one piece of advice you would give leaders?
• 1:05:52
  SPEAKER_01: I I think I would say keep your goals.
• 1:05:56
  SPEAKER_01: Don't don't lose your your ability to set goals.
• 1:05:59
  SPEAKER_01: But But re-channel your goals to a purpose and a mission that's worthwhile and that goes and transcends beyond yourself.
• 1:06:09
  SPEAKER_01: And and so I would advise and any entrepreneur that's listening to this to truly ask yourself why is it that I'm doing what I'm doing?
• 1:06:18
  SPEAKER_01: If it's the right reason, continue.
• 1:06:21
  SPEAKER_01: And if it's not, then learn to realign your purpose with a bigger mission of serving God.
• 1:06:26
  SPEAKER_01: And of seeing how your role and your involvement with this particular business endeavor in serving his kingdom is ultimately our higher, our highest calling.
• 1:06:37
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't think goal setting is bad, but goals are great, and goals are essential to accomplish whatever it is we want to accomplish.
• 1:06:43
  SPEAKER_01: So the question is, what is it that we should accomplish and and how should we set our goals accordingly?
• 1:06:51
  SPEAKER_00: How can we know whether we are pursuing a worthwhile mission?
• 1:06:55
  SPEAKER_00: Is it just kind of an internal feeling?
• 1:06:58
  SPEAKER_00: Is there something more tangible that we can check boxes like you were saying earlier?
• 1:07:03
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:07:04
  SPEAKER_00: How can we know if we are pursuing a worthwhile mission?
• 1:07:07
  SPEAKER_01: If you ask yourself at the end of the day, is what I'm doing gonna be gonna bring glory to Christ?
• 1:07:14
  SPEAKER_01: Is is my conversation with this person gonna glorify Christ?
• 1:07:17
  SPEAKER_01: Is my is the amount of money we're making a consequence of us being able to add value to society?
• 1:07:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm not saying that everyone should, you know, build a church because the church isn't the only way to impact humanity, you know, but creating opportunities for people to make a living and then to make one that is honorable and then that is um truly a consequence of them actually investing and and offering something beneficial to society.
• 1:07:44
  SPEAKER_01: The entrepreneurship is good.
• 1:07:46
  SPEAKER_01: And it's it's essential to a flourishing society.
• 1:07:49
  SPEAKER_01: So understanding how what your role is within that bigger mission, and then asking yourself, am I glorifying Christ through what I'm doing, through the decisions I'm making, or am I glorifying myself and bringing in and prioritizing my own interests?
• 1:08:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that that's a basic questions question that you can ask yourself in uh in a bigger view of what you're doing, but also on a more micro perspective in terms of your daily conversations, interactions, and the way you spend your time.
• 1:08:18
  SPEAKER_00: Doing his will as opposed to doing your own or the will of peer pressure puts you into.
• 1:08:25
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 1:08:27
  SPEAKER_00: I also have a theme of wrapping up each episode with some rapid fire questions.
• 1:08:32
  SPEAKER_00: We have a few questions here.
• 1:08:34
  SPEAKER_00: Uh these are pretty quick answers.
• 1:08:37
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes I tell people one sentence, sometimes it hasn't really worked out too well.
• 1:08:41
  SPEAKER_00: So I will just go through these real quick.
• 1:08:43
  SPEAKER_00: Uh no guideline, but quick.
• 1:08:47
  SPEAKER_00: Uh one sentence if possible.
• 1:08:50
  SPEAKER_00: What is your favorite class at Hillsdale?
• 1:08:53
  SPEAKER_00: Philosophy of education.
• 1:08:57
  SPEAKER_00: This is a tough one.
• 1:08:58
  SPEAKER_00: Early morning prayers or late night reflections.
• 1:09:02
  SPEAKER_00: Both.
• 1:09:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:09:04
  SPEAKER_01: I can't choose one over the other.
• 1:09:06
  SPEAKER_01: I think a morning that morning is probably more important because it's how you start your day.
• 1:09:12
  SPEAKER_01: But the late night reflections are always super important as well because it's it's gonna set the way you go to sleep and also how you're gonna wake up the next day.
• 1:09:19
  SPEAKER_01: So if I could only choose one, I'd probably say morning.
• 1:09:23
  SPEAKER_00: Morning, okay.
• 1:09:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:09:25
  SPEAKER_00: One word your mentors would use to describe you.
• 1:09:28
  SPEAKER_00: Tenacious.
• 1:09:32
  SPEAKER_00: Most inspiring mentor you had in school, and why were they the most inspiring?
• 1:09:37
  SPEAKER_01: I'd say uh the campus chaplain, Father Adam, and he was the most inspiring because he he showed me what a Christ-centered relationship is supposed to look like, and and how I should be able to grow and invest in my own faith, but also knowing that my investment in myself is gonna be something that God uses for his glory and and for me to invest in other people as well.
• 1:10:00
  SPEAKER_01: So um, yeah, a great, great guy, and then a funny dude as well, you know.
• 1:10:05
  SPEAKER_01: That yeah, despite how much he knows about the Bible and his faith, he he was humble and then he was very, very much willing to be vulnerable as well.
• 1:10:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then so I got to know him really well, and then it was just a great experience.
• 1:10:19
  unknown: Amen.
• 1:10:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I was still in contact with him.
• 1:10:22
  SPEAKER_00: Good, good.
• 1:10:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:10:25
  SPEAKER_00: Favorite spots on campus to reflect and find peace?
• 1:10:30
  SPEAKER_01: The the chapel.
• 1:10:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Christ Chapel.
• 1:10:33
  SPEAKER_01: They built it there in 2019, and so it's a very new building with a more classical structure, you know, like like the the chapels in um in Oxford, you know, it has that that same kind of architecture.
• 1:10:47
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's just a a place where I was able to reflect, uh, to do a little devotional every now and then, to do a prayer, and it was just great.
• 1:10:58
  SPEAKER_00: Biggest challenge when transitioning from college to working at the classical learning test.
• 1:11:04
  SPEAKER_01: Biggest challenge was learning to re-prioritize, um redefine my priorities in life, and then to build habits that revolved around God and and and that were mainly governed by Him and not by a specific person, relationship, or organization.
• 1:11:24
  SPEAKER_00: Most impactful Bible verse or spiritual saying we live by.
• 1:11:29
  SPEAKER_01: I've I've had one lately this week, um, that I'm um I've been reflecting all about, and it's rejoice in hope, be patient in suffering, and persevere in prayer.
• 1:11:39
  SPEAKER_01: Romans 12, 12.
• 1:11:41
  SPEAKER_01: And that just to me, it summarizes the Christian walk.
• 1:11:45
  SPEAKER_01: And then it's a it's a helpful reminder for daily struggles, but also learning to see the big picture and like why is it that we're doing all this?
• 1:11:54
  SPEAKER_00: Romans 12, 12, rejoice in hope, be patient.
• 1:11:57
  SPEAKER_00: He said be patient in tribulation.
• 1:12:00
  SPEAKER_00: Be patient in suffering.
• 1:12:01
  SPEAKER_00: In suffering?
• 1:12:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, be constant in prayer.
• 1:12:04
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, I love that.
• 1:12:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, what is your top tip for maintaining discipline?
• 1:12:13
  SPEAKER_01: Maintain a love for the things you ought to love.
• 1:12:21
  SPEAKER_01: And if you don't have it, then ask for it.
• 1:12:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:12:24
  SPEAKER_01: Ask for God to give you that love.
• 1:12:25
  SPEAKER_01: To to give you a desire to love what you ought to love.
• 1:12:28
  SPEAKER_01: That's I think that's also where it starts.
• 1:12:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's not just um learning to love, but it's truly asking people.
• 1:12:33
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think it's a gift from God.
• 1:12:35
  unknown: Right.
• 1:12:35
  SPEAKER_01: To start to love the things that you ought to love.
• 1:12:37
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's easy to love the worldly as opposed to the the godly or the kingdom.
• 1:12:44
  SPEAKER_00: Kingdom before empire.
• 1:12:46
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:12:46
  SPEAKER_00: But maybe people fall into the empire mindset.
• 1:12:50
  SPEAKER_00: So I feel like this was kind of giving me uh wrapping getting it getting it kind of easy at this point.
• 1:12:56
  SPEAKER_00: But if you could have a heart to heart with any historical figure of faith, who would it be?
• 1:13:01
  SPEAKER_01: I'd say St.
• 1:13:02
  SPEAKER_01: Stephen.
• 1:13:03
  SPEAKER_01: He was the first Christian martyr in Acts.
• 1:13:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I was a part of a group on campus called the Society of St.
• 1:13:11
  SPEAKER_01: Stephen.
• 1:13:12
  SPEAKER_01: So we practiced spiritual disciplines that revolved around his ideals.
• 1:13:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, I just want to get to know the guy because he was he was the first person willing to sacrifice himself for the gospel.
• 1:13:27
  SPEAKER_00: That is that's what I thought you were gonna say.
• 1:13:29
  SPEAKER_00: I thought it I thought this was gonna be uh for sure answer.
• 1:13:32
  SPEAKER_00: I thought you were definitely gonna say Jesus.
• 1:13:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, I think that that's implied, right?
• 1:13:36
  SPEAKER_01: That's implied.
• 1:13:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:13:38
  SPEAKER_01: And and but hey, I I already know Jesus.
• 1:13:41
  SPEAKER_01: I talk to him every day, so how about that?
• 1:13:42
  SPEAKER_00: Amen.
• 1:13:43
  SPEAKER_00: There we go.
• 1:13:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:13:44
  SPEAKER_00: And you'll talk to uh Saint Stephen when we when we go to uh heaven.
• 1:13:50
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 1:13:50
  SPEAKER_00: So there we go.
• 1:13:53
  SPEAKER_00: Uh now one last question.
• 1:13:57
  SPEAKER_00: I know it kind of asks a similar question.
• 1:13:59
  SPEAKER_00: What is one piece of advice you would give to the audience in general from different parts of life, different ages, genders, and races, professions, so on.
• 1:14:14
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe even some who are not Christian.
• 1:14:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:14:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um I would say to re-evaluate, you know, why you're doing what you're doing, and it's really easy for me as a Christian to say I'm doing everything to build God's kingdom.
• 1:14:33
  SPEAKER_01: And if that's the case for you, then every relationship, every conversation, every interaction you have, that is the measure.
• 1:14:41
  SPEAKER_01: You know this.
• 1:14:41
  SPEAKER_01: How am I glorifying God through this?
• 1:14:44
  SPEAKER_01: And outside of outside of faith, that would say that you already have faith in something and in someone.
• 1:14:52
  SPEAKER_01: And if tomorrow that thing disappeared, how would that impact you as a person?
• 1:14:58
  SPEAKER_01: And and to start, is it a possibility for that thing to one day not be there?
• 1:15:02
  SPEAKER_01: And if it is, then maybe it's time to re-evaluate, you know, what is your highest value, what is your highest priority?
• 1:15:08
  SPEAKER_01: And the answer to that can be Christ, it can be something else.
• 1:15:12
  SPEAKER_01: But I don't think there's many other things that would offer you the same security, the same kind of security that we as Christians have in Christ.
• 1:15:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um a belief in God.
• 1:15:21
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that everyone already has faith in something, and we all have our happiness is dependent on that thing.
• 1:15:28
  SPEAKER_01: So just ensure that whatever that thing is, you know, it's something that won't can withstand time, can withstand any hardship, can withstand this life itself.
• 1:15:38
  SPEAKER_01: And then to me, that is Christ.
• 1:15:40
  SPEAKER_01: And if it's not to you, then ask yourself what is what is that thing.
• 1:15:44
  SPEAKER_00: And there it I mean, I think you said you don't think there's anything as powerful.
• 1:15:49
  SPEAKER_00: There is nothing else that is eternal, right?
• 1:15:53
  SPEAKER_00: Christ.
• 1:15:54
  SPEAKER_00: So inherently that means there is nothing as powerful.
• 1:15:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but thank you for tuning in to this episode of the Reborn Podcast with Tony Beatrich.
• 1:16:04
  SPEAKER_00: Special thanks to our guest, Fernando Bravo, brother.
• 1:16:06
  SPEAKER_00: I love your name.
• 1:16:07
  SPEAKER_00: Bravo.
• 1:16:08
  SPEAKER_00: That's I can say that.
• 1:16:09
  SPEAKER_00: Bravo.
• 1:16:10
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 1:16:10
  SPEAKER_00: I got lucky for sure.
• 1:16:13
  SPEAKER_00: People can spell your name and say it and enjoy saying it.
• 1:16:16
  SPEAKER_00: People can't do either for my last name.
• 1:16:18
  SPEAKER_00: So uh uh special thanks to our guest for uh Fernando Bravo for sharing his journey and wisdom with us.
• 1:16:25
  SPEAKER_00: If you enjoy this conversation, I would be so grateful if you could just subscribe.
• 1:16:30
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're feeling extra generous, share this episode with a friend who can also take value.
• 1:16:36
  SPEAKER_00: You know what they say.
• 1:16:37
  SPEAKER_00: The network is your net worth.
• 1:16:40
  SPEAKER_00: Be a valuable part of someone's network.
• 1:16:42
  SPEAKER_00: Stay connected with us on social media.
• 1:16:44
  SPEAKER_00: Fernando, where can I find you on uh online?
• 1:16:46
  SPEAKER_00: Where can I connect?
• 1:16:47
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I'm on Instagram, Bravo underscore Nando7.
• 1:16:52
  SPEAKER_00: Bravo underscore nando seven.
• 1:16:53
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:16:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:16:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um stay connected with us.
• 1:16:59
  SPEAKER_00: Uh follow Fernando on social media on Instagram.
• 1:17:04
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, if you did relate to his story uh or felt power coming from it, uh, I sure did.
• 1:17:11
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and there will be episodes upcoming every Wednesday and Sunday.
• 1:17:17
  SPEAKER_00: Until next time, keep growing, keep leading, and stay inspired doing his will with his power for his glory.
• 1:17:24
  SPEAKER_00: Totally.