Latest / Mythic Mind Games / 27 - Fallout Prime Conversation: Lucy, Ghoul, Vault Conspiracy

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27 - Fallout Prime Conversation: Lucy, Ghoul, Vault Conspiracy · Mythic Mind Games

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Mythic Mind Games, an extension of
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: the Mythic Mind Fellowship, which pursues wisdom in the paths
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: between primary and secondary worlds. I'm doctor Angel Snyder, and
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: I'm glad that you're here with the greatest time. All Right,
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: welcome back to Mythic Mind Games. As we now talk
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: about something that's not a game, I talk about the
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: fallout on Amazon Prime. I thought about putting this over
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: on the Movies and Shows podcast. I figured the natural
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: audience is probably going to be here, and so let's
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: keep it all in one place. This time. I'm supporting
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: my Sunset sash Gorilla here figure to'll be fitting. Now.
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: I will say that maybe I should start with a
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: disclaimer here classics inconsistent.
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: But yeah, it's too late for me to be drinking
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: like a lot of sugar.
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: That's fair. Yeah, I have a superpower of being able
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: to go to But any time it's called having twins,
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: there you go, oh hey, I got a blue star anyways,
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: A yeah, nice. So before we gets haard, I shouldrobably
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: give a disclaimer because most of the people who listen
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: to me kind of what I'm most well known for
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: in these parts is my Tolkien stuff, my Lewis stuff
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: and literature philosophy that that sort of thing. And so
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: you know, a lot of different people are you know,
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: maybe this would cross over listening to this people who
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: who maybe don't really know what Fallout is or at
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: least haven't seen the show. And I should say that
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: this is unlike most of what I recommend, this is
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: not something you should probably watch with your kids, especially
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: your young kids.
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: No, watch this with your children.
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: Yes, I just want to make that very clear out front.
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: You know, maybe even you know listeners, certain listener shouldn't
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: watch this if you have certain sensitivities. Like for example,
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: I mean, you know, there's a lot of profanity there.
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of really intense violence, but I mean
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: I would say it's like over the top, can't be
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: violence to the point where it's not real, let's take
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: but it does something upsets you, well, maybe it's not
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: for you. Also, like there are a couple like brief
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: scenes of nudity in here.
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's some there, there's some nudity, there's some sexuality.
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: There's like it's nothing you can't skip if but now
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: yeah it's yeah, it's just unnecessary stuff. So I just
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: want to put that out there. It's there, know that
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: going into this. That being said, obviously we're talking about
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: it because there is still a lot of merit here,
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: you know, if you can kind of way through some
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: of that stuff. I just want to say.
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: That it's a good show. I mean, like it's it's
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: a it's a decent show. It's let me let me
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: put it that way. It's a decent show. Just don't
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: watch it with your kids.
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: Correct, And you know, if you like Fallout, you should
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: more or less know what you're getting into. And if
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: you like Fallout, I would say that you're probably not
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: necessarily but probably going to like the show.
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: Maybe maybe I'll let you give first impressions this time
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: before I give mine. What did you think of the show?
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: General terms?
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: It's your Okay, fine, it's your show. I think you
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: should I think you should lead. But but but we yeah, sure,
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: the I guess I'll keep it really short for now
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: and we can come back around. So I think the
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: show it's decent. I think it is. It's it's a
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: it's a good show. It's a good enough show. I'm
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: I'm very critical when it comes to the stuff that like,
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: I like and I consume. So I would argue the
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: show is not it's not as good as everybody says
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: it is. That's my take. That's my take on the show.
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: It's not as good as everyone says it is, but
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: it's still a decent show. It's still like, it's still entertaining.
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: If you're if you if you like Fallout, you'll probably
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: probably like this. It depends on what kind of Fallout
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: fan you are. There there are there are distinctions there.
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: I would say For me, I thought I watched the
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: show together with my cousin and we both kind of
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: had a similar opinion. We thought roughly the first three episodes,
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: in our opinion, were hot garbage, and then once we
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: got to once we got to episode four and onward,
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: that's when we were That's when we were hooked. That's
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: when we were invested. Was kind of like episode four onward.
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: So and I would say my my kind of like
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: my my final verdict to round this out seven seven
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: and a half stars.
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think that makes sense. I feel like
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: in those first few episodes, they're concerned more about like
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: letting everyone know this is Fallout, and the writing itself
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: is not very good.
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: I will well, I will get I will get into
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: why I think that later, but you get you.
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know to me in the very ways
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: that we can consider, like is this a good show,
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: it's not a good show. Does it work? Is not work?
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: And we could talk about the writing as a show itself,
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: the characters, is it compelling, is it coherent? But I
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: think that we're talking about an adaptation like this from
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: video game to a show in this in this context,
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: I put a lot of weight on does it give
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: you a similar kind of experience? Like does it capture
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: the feels and the vibes as the kids. I don't
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: know if they could say that, but does it capture
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: that they feel of playing the game that kind of world?
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: And I would say it largely does. Now, there's some
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: things it does that are it's a little bit funky,
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: but for the most part part I've said, they do
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: a pretty good job in capturing the spirit of the game,
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: and that's what I really look for here. Now, obviously
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: we need a compelling story as well, and we mentioned
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: this in the last episode on Fallout four that we're
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: still recycling some of the same stuff here of Okay,
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: got to leave your fault to go find your dad,
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: who are dealing the same stuff we dealt with in
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: four and three, and so not a lot of creativity there.
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: I would say, though, I would say that the plot, overall,
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: the plot of the show is infinitely better than three
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: or four.
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's probably true. Yeah, I agree overall, I
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: think it captures the vibe pretty well. I feel like
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: the story is good, and I agree that it does
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: get better. But yeah, basically that's my first response. And
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: so why would you say the first three episodes are
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: not good since you already laid that out there.
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: I'm a very so I don't so I don't have
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: like all of the particulars because I haven't gone back
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: to rewatch the show. I've done like a little bit
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: of recap, but only for like certain specific things, so
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: I don't have kind of like it all fresh and
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: kind of written out in front of me. But I remember, like, so,
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: I'm I'm very I'm I'm I'm very big on writing.
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: I'm very big on writing and good writing, like good writing,
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: good direction, like you know, stuff like that. I like,
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: I'm I'm definitely I'm definitely a nitpicker and a niggler,
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: But I would say I would say this is like
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: I would say, this is more than nitpicks. There are
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: definitely some plot holes in the show that are just
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: kind of bewildering to me. And I guess I guess
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: I should Uh we're talking, we're talking, we're talking spoilers.
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, this is spoilers.
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, if you haven't watched the show, maybe stop listening
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: if you care about that. Like in the in the
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: very first episode, well, there's like so like there's like
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: little things that annoy me, Like like in the very beginning,
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: you have you know, uh, Walter Goggins his character and
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: like you know, his daughter. They're talking about like bombs
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: and like the whole thumb thing and kind of like
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: what you do like if you see a mushroom cloud,
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: so like you know, that's all, that's all well and good.
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: The scene fell apart from me the moment that there
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: was a mushroom cloud literally just over the hill like
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: in the downtown area, and nobody, nobody else notices except
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: the small child, and you like like like even you
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: have like so you have like this house it's on
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: the hill. It literally oversees everything it oversees the city
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: that's getting bombed. The house itself is like all glass walls, right,
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: you know, like like you know, to to you know,
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: to to the to the back porch or whatever, you know,
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: where every it's so so the idea that the dad
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: went inside the house, got a piece of cake and
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: then literally turned around to go back outside facing the
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: direction of where the bomb is, which, by the way,
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: it looks like it looks like a second son when
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: it goes off right right. Somehow, notice, somehow, somehow missed
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: the mushroom cloud and the second son like literally just
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: like right down the hill kind of like practically at
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: eye level, and then you know, like literally faced it,
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: turned around, looked at his kid and still didn't notice
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: that the bomb was there. Well, look the fact that
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: and the fact that everybody nobody else seemed to notice
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: that the bomb was there. That like, that is that
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: That is the that is the sort of thing I
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: care about.
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: Well, look, everyone inside was watching TV and talking. They
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: weren't paying attention.
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: Don't watch TV, kids, you know, we're talking about a
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: TV show like like right, So don't think about it,
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: don't think about it.
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: Ask questions, you know, I mean, and I mean Howard Cooper.
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: I mean he's such a loving father. He was so
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: devoted to wrreustle him up some cake for his kid
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: that he just couldn't pay attention to anything else.
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: He just couldn't see the bomb he just got exactly. So,
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: so there are so there are like there are like
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: little things like that. So the the big one and
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: other people have brought this up like the bigger one.
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: So we're gonna fast forward to everyone's living in the vaults.
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: Now we've got our main character, Lucy, who's our you know,
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: resident vault dweller, and her family and whatever. So there
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: is basically I mean, okay, these are gonna these are
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: gonna be big spoilers, guys. Okay, I'm serious. So there
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: are Basically, Lucy is from a network of vaults thirty one,
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: thirty two, thirty three. All right. Basically, the social experiment
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: of this vault, of these three vaults was basically to
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: basically breed a class of people with a class of
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: humans with kind of super managerial and leadership expertise so
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: that they could go out into the wasteland and basically,
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: you know, uh, you know, recolonize the surface and you
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: know bring you know, enlightenment and civilization to the animalistic survivors.
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: Right as Lucy says, America.
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they're gonna, yea, they're gonna, the're gonna they're gonna
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: save America. Right. So there's this whole So throughout the
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: course of the show, and this is what really this
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: is when I really got invested in the show. From
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: like four onward, you slowly figure out that this is
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: basically this whole experiment. It's more than just an experiment.
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: It's basically a conspiracy where you know, Vault thirty one
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: is basically the Illuminati like calling all of the shots.
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: It's basically kind of like it's basically all of the
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: like Vault Tech leaders. It's set like the actual leaders
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: of Vault Tech, you know themselves are in thirty one
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: calling all of the shots between them and thirty two
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: and thirty three. Where and Lucy for frame of reference
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: is from Vault thirty three, right, Vault thirty one. Unlike
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: all of the other vaults, which are like small cities,
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: Vault thirty one, you find out basically at the very
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: very end, is like this small It's like this this
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: very small vault with a bunch of cryopods in it,
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: like Vault one eleven in Fallout four, and it's literally
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: just like all of the manager people from like two
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: hundred years before the bombs dropped, and they just kind
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: of slowly release these people from stasis kind of like
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: one at a time and send them into Vault thirty
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: three to be like the new elected officials. Basically, Okay,
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: is that so? Am I? Am? I?
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: Still?
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: Am I portraying this accurately so far?
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: And yeah? Yeah, yeah, like thirty three they keep having
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: these elections, but they're all rigged. So yeah, thirty one people.
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: Win, yeah, every single time. So they have like this
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: little they have this little front. They have this little
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: front going kind of like between thirty one and the
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: other vaults. And so the the open the opening episode
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: of thirty three is basically it's a wedding. Uh. You know,
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: Lucy is going to Hank, who is played by File
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: I can never remember how I can never remember his
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: last name McLachlan, Kle mclachland. You know agent Cooper from
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: Twin Peaks, right, David Lynch all of that. So, uh,
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: Kyle McLachlan's character, Hank is going to marry his daughter Lucy,
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: and uh, the person she's gonna marry is supposedly from
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: Vault thirty one. Supposedly, right, So they so these people
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: show up, they look dirty, they look greasy. Honestly, they
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: look really really suspicious. Uh, you know, they have a wedding,
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: they have a party, and then all of a sudden
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: it goes horribly horribly wrong, as like, you know, all
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: these people like you know, oh, these aren't people from
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: Vault thirty one. You know, these are raiders and they're
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: killing everybody right there right now. That this this this
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: only makes sense if you know the end of the show.
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: But but right there is kind of like our our
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: first problem, because how did Hank not recognize that he
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: because Hank is from Vault thirty one, he's on you know,
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: Lucy's dad is in on the conspiracy, he's from thirty one.
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: How did he not recognize that all of these people
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: who just came in from thirty three are not actually
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: from thirty one. The second that door opened, he should
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: have looked at all those people and realized that something
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: is wrong. So like that's so that's so that like
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: that's so that's kind of like our first problem. Now,
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: the lady who's leading the whole thing. Muldaver, the bad guy,
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: she's kind of got. We don't know what her deal is.
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: We know that she is also from before the war,
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: but we don't know if she's from Vault thirty one
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: or not. That's part of the mystery. We may get
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: answers to that in season two. Uh so, you know,
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: Mouldaver's still kind of a bit of a question mark,
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: but you know she's the one, She's the one calling
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: all the shots. So Kyle, excuse me, Hank, Hank should
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: recognize he should definitely recognize Muldaver, because they were kind
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: of like running in similar circles, but like the rest
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: of them, are obviously not from thirty one. They're raiders
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: from the surface.
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: Well I saw it. Maybe I'm misremembering, but I thought
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: the exchanges with Vault thirty two. You might be right,
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: which would at least make a little bit more sense.
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: And even still, you think Hank would have more information.
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: But you might be right. I may I may have
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: gotten something wrong there. I may have gotten something. I
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: may have gotten something completely messed up. So somebody can
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: catch me on that. That that being said, I'm going
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: to say that you know, since basically thirty one knows
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: what's going on with thirty one, thirty two, thirty three,
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: Hank should have looked at those raiders essentially, those those
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: raiders poorly, poorly disguised right as vault dwellers, and realized
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: that something was wrong, correct, like so that so that
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: so like stuff like that just like immediately takes me
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: out of a show. And then Muldaver's weird ultimatum, Like
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: what was the ultimatum she gave Hank again exactly at
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: the end. It was like, I'm either, uh, was it
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: give us Lucy or we blow up the vault?
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: Or well I think it was give us Lucy or
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: I blow up the people. I have tied up right
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: here right, although he doesn't. I mean, he ended up
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: saving Lucy and the people are fine too.
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, is that that? That was another thing
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: that kind of had both my cousin and I just
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: kind of like confused because it was very because Hank
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: going with Muldaver was not in the ultimatum. It wasn't
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: in the cards. So he does something where right there
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: at the right there, at the front door, he throws
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: Lucy in a closet and then he just without any explanation.
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: He doesn't even say Mouldaver take me. Instead, he just
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: leaves the vault with Muldaver and she just kind of
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: turns around, goes with him, sets off the bomb that
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: she was threatening to set off, and it doesn't. It
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: doesn't collapse, It doesn't collapse the vault entrance, it doesn't
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: collapse the tunnel. You find like immediately in episode two,
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: everything's fine. It's like there was no bomb in the
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: first place. So that was like another thing where I
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: was like, okay, okay, you know, I was starting I
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: was starting to lose I was starting to lose patience
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: with the show. The the other thing that kind of
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: the other thing that kind of irritated me was basically
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: everything sou Maximus, the whole Brotherhood of Steel arc. So
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: we so we get our we get our our second
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: main character, Maximus, who's like a Brotherhood of Steel acolyte,
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: and he was just he felt like a very kind
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: of almost goofy. I'm reluctant to call him a jar
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: Jar Banks character. He wasn't that bad, but he's so
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: goofy and absurd that I found him kind of off putting.
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: Like there's a like there's a there's a there's a
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: good character in Maximus as kind of as you know,
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: as somebody who kind of you know, he wants to
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: be you know, he wants to be a Brotherhood Knight.
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: He wants to go out into the wasteland and do justice,
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: which is not the Brotherhood's thing, but that's his dream.
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: But like there's this whole there's this whole. The whole
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: plot with him at the very very beginning, right before
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: he goes out into the wasteland is just very it's
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: it's it's it's very confusing. There's like there's like a
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: whole thing where you know, basically, you know, he's the runt.
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: He gets picked on, he gets hazed by all of
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: the other trainees. He wants to be a knight, but
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: he's not gonna get to be picked to be a knight.
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: His best friend gets the promotion, and then all of
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: the sudden, there's like a razor. There's like his his friend,
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: his friend is like his friend's name is Dane, and
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: they're like a they're like a you know, they're they're
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: like a non binary character, but but Dane is Dane
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: gets a uh. Dane basically has like a blade like
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: that's hidden inside their booty, a very like a like
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: a very very like a very very large blade like
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: hidden inside their boots. And there's like this whole there's
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: like this whole mystery kind of around, like who's sabotaged
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: Dane to keep them from becoming a night And then
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: and then Maximus gets the job. Maximus gets the gets
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: the job to be like the Squire instead. Basically there's
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: all of this ambiguity as to whether or not Max
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: put the blade inside his best friend, inside his best
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: friend's boot and Max Max looks guilty as sin, and
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: Max's own defense for why he's innocent is not convincing
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: at all, and for whatever reason, the leaders of the
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: Brotherhood don't push him on this. Like if I were
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: the Boss talking to Max, like when he was being
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: interrogated in the office, Max never would have left the
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: camp like Max would like, you know, to have his story,
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: like the plot, Max's plot would have stopped right there,
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: like in episode two or three or you know whatever
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: that whatever that was when he's first when he's first introduced,
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: it's and yet that's not what happens. The Boss is
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: just like just kind of shrugs his shoulder, you know,
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: while Max is sitting in the chair just looking guilty
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: as can be, unable to clear his name. The boss
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: is just like, eh, I okay, I guess.
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: You can have a special assignment.
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: I have a special assignment. Now you find out later.
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: You find out later that Dane but the boot, like
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: you know, Dane sabotage themselves. Mm hmm. That that, you know,
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: they were the ones who put they were the ones
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: who put the blade in the boot because they didn't
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: want to go They didn't want to go out into
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: the wasteland. They thought they thought Hank you know, would
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: get the job instead, which is what happened. But Dane
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: did nothing to clear Max's name until like the very
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: very very end of the show where this comes back
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: up and all of a sudden it's finally a problem,
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: like eight episodes later or however long the show was.
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: That was that whole thing was very very bewildering to me,
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: and the whole time this is happening in the beginning,
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: like Dane is being so ambiguous, it really feels like
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: they wanted to have their cake and eat it too.
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: It feels like they wanted to have the mystery of
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: ooh maybe Max really did you know, for the audience,
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: they couldn't want the audience to think, ooh, maybe Max
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: really did do it. But it's so ambiguous that it
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: doesn't to me, it doesn't make for compelling a mystery.
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: It's just it's just it's narratively confusing. So there was
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: like a there was there was like a there was
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: like a lot of things like that where it felt
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: like there was just like a lack of cohesion kind
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: of like in the writing and the characters. That was
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: just really kind of like and again like both of us,
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: like you know, my cousin and I, we were both
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: just kind of like we were not as these particular
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: elements were playing out that we would tip that I've
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: just been describing. We were not feeling it. But once
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: we got past all of that, like the show and
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: the plot and the characters actually came together, it was
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: just a really really weird, clumsy start.
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know kind of got the impression that the
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: Brotherhood of Steel Boss Guy I can't remember his name,
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: I forgot, but you know, when when he's questioning Maximus,
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: I kind of got the impression that, even though he
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: didn't say this, he he kind of liked that Maximus
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: might be the kind of guy who gets results right,
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: and that's going to play in a little bit later
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: on that he's looking for someone who's able to get
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: things done. And so even though doesn't come out and
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: say that, I think that might be a more positive
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: way to read some nuance that may or may not
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: be there, but I think that that's at least one
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: possibility here.
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: That's interesting actually, because you.
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: Know, later on toward the end of the season, this
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: is when the Boss guy basically said, I want you
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: to come away with me and we're gonna, you know,
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: reform the Brotherhood or can I do anything?
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: There does seem to be there, does seem to be
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: a theme with the Brotherhood. Somebody like, uh, somebody noted this,
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: and I didn't really think about it before because I
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: was kind of again, I was watching like bits and
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: pieces of various recaps. Somebody made a similar observation that
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: the brother kind of the theme of the Brotherhood in
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: the show is, Uh, so, you you have you have
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: you have Lucy, who's kind of like, you know, the
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: morally good character. You have the Ghoul who has become
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: like the morally evil character, and then you Maximus is
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: from the Brotherhood. Now Maximus is kind of complicated, but
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: like the theme of the Brotherhood is kind of like
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: the ends justify the means, right, So you have kind
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: of like this you could say this quote unquote Gray
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: Middle with the Brotherhood. So that's that's that's that's actually
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: an interesting take with the Boss and how he treats
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: max in the beginning.
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: Now, I will say, with Dane's blade situation, you know,
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: if Dane's gonna do this, why does the blade have
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: to be so incredibly large?
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: I don't. I don't know. I don't know, like I so,
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: I don't. Maybe maybe it would help if we pulled
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: for some from some actual real life examples. The only
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: example that's coming to mind for me at the moment
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: personally is is the scene and did you watch Downton Abby.
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: I did you remember?
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: I don't remember what season it was. Do you remember
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: when so Tom was the It was Tom, right, he
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: was the he was kind of like one of the
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: servants who.
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: Like, uh, it's been a while, was that like which
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: one he was?
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: He was like he was like the he was like
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: the the the the evil gay servants, which which I
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: kind of I kind of hate I kind of hate
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: framing it like that, but like, yes, yeah, it's it's
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: very Yeah, it's like but anyway, he goes, or at
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: least that's how he starts. I mean, he's he's kind
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: of he's I never finished watching the whole show, Like
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: Tom has always just kind of been a piece of work.
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: I've never kind of but he kind of becomes nice eventually.
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: So anyway, he it's when the World War started and
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: he's in the trenches. He doesn't want to be there, like,
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: he doesn't want to be on the front lines. He
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: wants to go home. So he like, uh, he he
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: gets out his lyre and puts his hand over the
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: trench so it gets snocked shot by a sniper and
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: that injury. Like he gets he gets he gets a
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: hole blown through his hand and that sends him back home.
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: So that's kind of that's kind of the only that
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: that's kind of the only other parallel I'm drawing to
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: at the moment. There are some people they are willing,
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: they are willing to maim themselves to get that to
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: get out of like a life threatening situation.
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm talking. I guess that's fair that's.
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: All I got, and I and I think I think
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: that's I think that's I think that's fair enough. It
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: was just it was just how it was. It was
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: just how it was framed.
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was.
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: It was. It was framed in such a way where
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: it felt like I don't remember, but it felt like
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: me and like even after Dane confessed to hurting themselves,
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: it felt like much much later, it felt like my
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: cousin and I were just still like what is going
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: on here with Dane, like like like is this like
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: you know, did you know? Did did you know? Did
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: they do it?
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: Or not?
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah? So that's I don't know, and I yeah, it's
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: just not very compelling to me. Now, I guess we're
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: framing this with a main character introductions here. I mean,
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: should we go into the ghul next?
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah? Why don't you take the goal? Yeah?
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: Well, I like what they're doing with us to do
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: from the very beginning to some extent of showing Howard
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: Cooper is at his name his real.
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: Name in the I'm sorry, I don't really know. Yeah, anyways,
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: I think so, I think you're right. I think you're right.
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: I think it's Cooper.
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So so Cooper, you know before in the war,
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: you know, he's like this loving father. He's like a
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: really guy. We found out I don't know. It's like
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: second or third episode. In one of the flashbacks, you know,
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: he's shooting this Western film and you know he doesn't
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: want to in the film he's shooting. He doesn't want
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: to kill the guy. So he's like really sensitive, right,
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: and then Juxsap posts him with the ghoul, who is
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: just the sociopath who does whatever. I kind of like
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: what they're doing there and just showing his transformation.
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: It's deliberately framed too, like every everything like it's like
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: everything is very like anytime. Anytime they show a flashback
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: with Cooper where he is being like a good person
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: in a specific context, they flash forward to the present
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: where he's a ghul and they're showing him being a
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: despicable human being in that exact same context. So it's like,
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: I don't want to kill I don't want to kill
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: this guy. Flash forward shoots an innocent person, you know,
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: like pick pick moral situation. Like in one scene, you know,
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: opposite in the next scene. They do they do it all,
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: they do it all. They frame it and they kind
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: of rhyme it rhythmically, like in a very very intentional way.
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I really appreciate that. And honestly it's kind
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: of heartbreaking, yeah, that exposition.
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: It's kind of insane too, like he is so like
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: he he is so insanely evil like as a ghoul.
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: But at the same time, even though you know he's
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: evil for ninety percent of the time, there are those
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: moments of where they show some introspection where you know,
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: he's just left in despair recognizing who he once was.
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: I mean, in that episode with the U, they go
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: the supermarket so he can get some more of those vials,
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: and you know, and at the end of the episode,
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: he just watching his old movies.
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: That's the.
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: Ghoul serum, right, yeah, exactly right, Okay, yeah, yeah, And
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: so at the end of that episode, he's just watching
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: his old movies with this look on his face, like,
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: you know, remembering who he once was. And so there's
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: still some humanity left within him, it's just he's suppressed
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: it so far down, I guess as a way of
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: surviving in this kind of life that he's had. I mean,
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: I don't I don't know what it would be like
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: to become a ghoul, but probably not very good, I mean,
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: and so there's there's moments of humanity in there, even
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: though he has the monster most of the time. But
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: now going to his main introduction as the ghoul, I'm
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: not a fan of this zombie scene where they literally
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: dig him out of a graveyard.
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: That is a reference to a character I think can
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: fall Out two. Is it? Yeah? There is? Yeah, I was.
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: I was confused too when I saw that. I was like,
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: why is he why is he in a coffin? I
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: wish I wish I could give you more information, because
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: like I'm I I I I pick I picked apart
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: the logistics of that too, like that the Quest with
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: the Quest and fall Out four with the kid who
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: was in the fridge for two hundred years somehow and
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: didn't know that he was a ghoul and couldn't get
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: out of the fridge for two hundred years, and you know,
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: nobody could hear him in the fridge for two hundred years,
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: and his parents, who were actually just down the street,
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: who were also ghuls, like never thought to go out
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: into the street and see, like, you know, oh, there's
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: a fridge there and there's a voice inside Oh, it's
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: our kid for two hundred years. Yeah. Yeah, and then
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: it's like, wait, what is the what is Goggins doing?
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: I was kind of having that same thing going on there,
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: So like, I can't answer those questions because I don't
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: remember the particulars. But there is a character in Fallout
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: two that is a ghoul who was just kind of
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: chilling in a coffin when you find him, so it's
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: like it's like a cameo, but I don't I don't
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: remember any of the specifics. I didn't. I forgot to
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: kind of like look that up before we started.
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: Well, it makes me feel better to know that there's
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: some precedent there within the games, but now within the
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: Lord they've established about ghouls within the show about how
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: you have to have the serum or you go feral.
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's brand new.
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: Why was he not feral if he had been lying
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: there in the coffin for that long?
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I also don't know how long he'd
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: been in the coffin either.
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: A while.
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I honest again, I honestly don't know. I
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: mean like he talks, I mean the way he talks
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: in the show. He's been around like he's been around
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: the wasteland. He's kind of like he obviously hasn't been
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: in the Coffin the whole time, because by his own
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: admission in the show, like he's like he's been Like
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: when he's talking to the thugs who are pretending to
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: be the government, you know, like he's you know, he's
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: very or when he's talking to like the people like
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: the family in the the NCR Ranger armor, you know,
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: like and they apparently have some history. Like, I mean,
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: he's been around. So I don't know how long he's
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: been in the Coffin, but yeah, I was, I was,
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: I was having the same for I was having the
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: same struggles there too, but there is Yeah, so.
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know, do you have anything else to
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: add about his introduction.
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: So one of the guys that I was watching called Oxhorn,
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: who's got like a series of fallout videos. He actually
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: made a really interesting observation about Goggin's character Cooper about
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: how so the uh you see him with as the
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: Ghoul when he's walking around with the dog, Well, first off,
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: it's really really goofy because the dog attacks him and
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: then he stabs the dog, and then the scene the
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: scene goes on for like another five ten minutes. You
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: think the dog would have bled out, and but he
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: goes back out into the street and the dog is
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: still alive.
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: It's a modified dog.
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: It's a obviously obviously you know so again like like
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: things like things like that, just like bug me in
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: a show like to no end. But so the dog's
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: still alive. And then he kind of looks at the
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: dog that he stabbed. He has second thoughts. He gets
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: a stem pack, he heals the dog, and everything's fine,
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: but somebody ox Horn made this really interesting observation that
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: the dog dogs are kind of like a stand in
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: for both past coop and present coop. Dogs are a
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: stand in for his conscience because like his dog in
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: his past is like his basically is like his favorite companion.
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: Like in both in both the past and the future,
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: he talks to dogs like they're a person. He kind
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: of has this one sided conversation with dogs, and the
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: dog is like his again, you know, the like you know,
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: the dog is what kind of keeps him like centered
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: and kind of like you know, gives him kind of
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: like his uh, keeps him being kind of like that
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: good person where like because like his wife in the past,
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: like worked for Vaultech and they're having some disagreements, there's
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: some strain in their relationship with regards to the whole
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: Vautic business. And when he's first thinking about spying on
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: his wife, he looks at the family dog and says,
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: you know, yeah, you're right, Bud, or you know you're right, Rex,
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: You're right. I don't remember the dog's name, like, yeah,
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: I'm not gonna do it. So it's like, you know,
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: I'm I can't span I can't spy on my wife.
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: She's my wife, right, you know. And he uses and
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: he uses the dog as his moral compass in the past.
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: So like the fact that he goes back to the
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: dog that he almost killed and healed is is kind
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: of like symbolic of like his his conscience slowly kind
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: of like shooting, kind of like coming back up like
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: a shoot from a dead stump. M And I thought
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: that was I thought, I thought, you know, again out
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: to ox Horn, I thought that was actually I thought
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: that was really that was a fascinating observation.
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this is interesting. And I mean, obviously throughout this
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: whole season he's a bad guy. Oh, at the same
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: time so bad. I mean, it could be arguing he's
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: at least moving in the direction of something like a
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: chaotic good throughout the season, in the direction I didn't say,
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: he's there.
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we're we're yeah, we're yeah, we're not He's definitely
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: not there yet, but you you you think you definitely
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: get the vibe, Oh, maybe there's hope for this guy.
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: Exactly right, which I mean, it's not really where he begins,
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: but I do think he definitely moves in that direction.
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: Like I said, there's moments of introspection you get every
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: once in a while, I think show us that they're
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: going to do something with his character. I think that
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: he's going to get reformed over time, at least to
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: some degree on the right side of morality. If I
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: mean broadly speaking, at least said I think that's where
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: he's going.
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: Uh yeah, yeah, he's yeah, he's I would I would agree.
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: You know, he's he's so he's so despicable, but like
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: he's very you know, he's very likable and uh yeah, yeah,
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry, I'm drawing a blank. He's a good character.
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: God Walter Walter Goggins does a good gul yeahol gool
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: uh uh uh Riz talking gun slinging. I can't believe
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: I said that, Riz talking gun slinging cowboy.
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he's definitely. I would say that the most compelling
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: character of the show. And I don't think that's an
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: unusual claim. Well, I don't know where should we go from.
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: Here, So I'm trying, so I'm trying to think, you know,
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: this is actually that, this is so, this was actually
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: something something that I was kind of thinking about that
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: I thought was really interesting. This is this is a
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: bit of a tangent, Okay, I mean it is Fallout,
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: but like somewhat of a tangent from the show, but
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: just something that I thought was interesting, which was just
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: kind of like how Fallout has kind of like thematically
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: and aesthetically changed over the years, especially from like the
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: first two games to you know, the later Bethesda and
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: then New Vegas entries, and then also kind of what
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: we see in the show, which is I was so
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: I used to follow a guy pretty regularly a long
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: time ago. It was kind of, you know, kind of
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: like a D list celebrity called Seamus Young, you know,
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: who has a you know, he's got a blog called
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: twenty Sided. He's probably most well known for his DM
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: of the Rings webcomic, where he portrays the story of
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: the Lord of the Rings like a D and D adventure.
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: And uh, he made a video. Uh he's you know, so,
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: you know, he's he's an old school Fallout fan, so
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: he's got opinions on Bethesda Fallout but he he so,
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: so he he made he made kind of like the
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: kind of video that you would probably expect from kind
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: of an old school Fallout fan, which is Bethesda never
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: understood Fallout. But he made an interesting point that I
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: thought was like worth considering, which was basically, like in Fallout,
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: we we understand the aesthetic of Fallout right as kind
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: of like this this retro nineteens nineteen fifties. This this
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: this retro future nineteen fifties, Adam punk, Adam core, you know,
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: kind of post apocalypse setting. And what he what he
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: mentions about that particular aesthetic and fall is that that
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: is that aesthetic is almost exclusively kept actually in the
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: first two games, it's almost exclusively in the past of
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: the long lost American civilization. And what you actually have
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: in Fallout to one and two is more of kind
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: of like the Socratic exercise of what does what does
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: like a Mad Max style you know, civilization look like
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: in the context of that basically and basically what he
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: was he goes, he goes into a lot more detail,
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: and I can't really do it justice, but he he
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: mentioned how basically Bethesda looked at that, you know, kind
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: of that nineteen fifties retro future esthetic, and then you know,
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: slapped it on everything even into like two hundred years
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: after for the bombs dropped, uh, which which I which
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: I thought was like, which I thought was an interesting point.
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: But and then you have like the first two games
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: are kind of like set like eighty years after the
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: bombs dropped. Butthesda does this really weird? Makes this really
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: weird choice where it's two hundred years after the bombs
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: dropped and you have this you have like kind of
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: like this weird dissonant thing happening in the setting where
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: and this is like more present in the games than
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: it is in the show, but it still is kind
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: of there in the show. But it's like two hundred
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: years after the bombs dropped. Everyone is still living in junk.
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: No one has like no one has like swept or
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: fixed the streets, you know, no one you know, you've
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: got you've got untouched loot for two hundred years, You've
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: got you know, on you know, nature hasn't like nature
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: has reached equilibrium and kind of healed itself again in
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: two hundred years. Uh, you know, society apparently just hasn't
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: redeveloped in two hundred years, like just kind of like
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: at all. And that's kind of like in the show too,
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: it's like really really weird. Anytime you see a settlement,
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: it's still all just kind of like it's still just
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: kind of like junk. New Vegas was a little more
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: conscious about this where they're actually showing the NCR trying
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: to build a railroad. You know, so that's so like
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: you know so that you know, hey, we've got like
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: some development. That's like, we've got like some development that's
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: going on. You know, people are actually you know, people
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: are just living in junk. You know they are you
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: know they are you know, building buildings, they are building roads.
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: You know, they've got like all this stuff going on.
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: But you know, but like New Fallout kind of has
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: like this this aesthetic of you know, like you know,
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: every you know, every you know, everyone's everyone's still living
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: in squalor even two hundred years after the bombs dropped,
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: because that's the iconic look, which I which I thought
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: was just kind of like an interesting, uh, just kind
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: of an interesting observation.
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: And that is a good point that it kind of
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: disrupts the sense of realism that no matter where you
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: are in the timeline after the bombs, everything is exactly
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: the same. It's kind of like Star Wars, right, you know,
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: go to the old Republic, go to the new stuff,
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: everything is basically the same. Yeah, but I mean, at
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: least then you can justify it in that, you know,
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: it's it's a entirely different setting. But when you're dealing
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: with an alternate timeline in our world, I think it
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: it just becomes a little bit more brought to the
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: forefront here. So yeah, I mean, I don't know much
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: to say that can do add to that, but I
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: think that's true that it's just I don't know, it's
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: it's unsettling, it's it's it's disrupting to the experience of enchantment.
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: As to use more of a Tokien kind of language
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: here too. I mean the fact that yeah, people aren't
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: building stuff, We're still living in squalor as you said,
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: like there's still stuff just sitting around. Yeah, it's it's
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: a good point.
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: I so, I so, I guess bringing it bringing it
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: back to the show, uh like more more more immediately
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: like pertinent to like the plot and the story of
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: the show. One of the things that like I guess,
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: I guess part of the reason why I bring this
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: up is kind of like some of like the some
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: of the like cultural context and tension like like surrounding
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: the show. I guess I wanna, I wanna. I want
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: to get in I want to get in the head
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: of like o G. Fallout fans a little bit like
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: when we talk about this because I want to be
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: like and we we we've talked about this before. I
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: think in the Fallout four episode a little bit. There's
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: there there can be The discourse around old Fallout versus
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: New Fallout can be pretty darn toxic, and that is
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: you know, that's you know, that's something that I don't
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: think is that I don't think is okay. But if
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: you can sort through the mess, I still think that
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: there are like you know, some you know, there's passionate
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: older fans that kind of like, you know, they you know,
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: they you know, they kind of have a point and
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: they have like, you know, they have some anxieties that
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: I think are you know, I think that are like,
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: you know, reasonably justified, you know, justifiable here or there.
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: I think we you know, I think the way I guess,
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: and I guess in a way to content to contextualize it,
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: you know, for maybe something that you know kind of
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: like we you and your audience might be able to
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: identify with better. Uh you know, we we as like
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: you know, we as you know, you know, serious Lord
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: of the Rings fans, serious Tolkien fans, for example, right
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: old so old school Fallout fans basically look at Fallout
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: three or Fallout four and they see rings of power,
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: right right, That's so like that that's that's that's that's
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: that's that's that's kind of the that's kind of the analogy.
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: You know that you know that I'm using, you know,
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: when you know I say rings of power, you know
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: that that that that bring you know, it is harsh,
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: but like I'm trying to like I'm trying to like
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: get I'm trying to like I'm I'm trying to bring
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: like some like relatability basically, uh, basically into the discussion.
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: So uh, I say all of this okay, because I
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: want to talk about Shady Sands. Now what now, if you,
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: if any if you know anything about Shady Sands. Shady
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: Sands is basically a major city from the first get
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: from the first Wallout Fallout one in two games, Uh,
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: the player has a lot of influenced in those games
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: over what happens to the small humble town of Shady
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: Sands and basically kind of like by the end it
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: becomes this big, sprawling city and uh in capital of
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: what becomes the NCR. It's actually it's actually kind of
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: like the one piece of evidence in the Fallout Show.
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: I guess we talked about societies not developing, so to uh,
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: to the Fallout Show's credit, the remains of Shady Sands
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: are kind of like one of the places where we
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: see evidence of civilization after the bombs fell, because you
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: still have skyscrapers like that are that are standing kind
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: of like in the ruins of Shady Sands. But uh there,
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: but therein lies the problem. I said the ruins of
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: Shady Sands because the Fallout Show made the extremely controversial
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: decision to to vomit to destroy it and it happens
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: off screen, and that is very that is and was
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: very upsetting to a lot of old school Fallout fans.
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: It felt like Shady Sands got done dirty. It also
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: felt like it was there was a lot of accusations
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: going around at the time that like, oh, Todd Howard
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: is trying to erase you know, Fallout one and two,
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: so that only his exists, right, So there has been
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: there has been some clarification since then. We do see
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: we do see a billboard that says that Shady Sands
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: is the first capital of the NCR some you know,
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: now some some people, some people still are not a
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: fan of that. Like, you know, I get it, you know,
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: I can. I can respect that well enough, I suppose,
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: But there was just kind of there was just kind
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: of like this impression that between the bombing of Shady
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: Sands and also also the fact that our villain that
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: we mentioned earlier, Muldaver, she seems to be rallying the
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: few survivors that are left from Shady Sands into some
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: small makeshift in CR Army. And then you have like
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: that war with the Brotherhood of Steel at the very
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: very end, and the Brotherhood kind of the Brotherhood kind
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: of like wipe that out again. It was there, there
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: were again, there was just like a lot of anxiety
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: that oh, you know, but you know Todd Howard and
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: his Tart Howard's got a heart on for the Brotherhood
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: of Steel and he just you know, wants to get
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: rid of the NCR and leave the Brotherhood of Steel
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: like the powerhouse of all of the Fallout universe, so
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: that he can keep putting the helmet on the boxes,
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: which I think, I think there's I think there's more
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: going on there than that, but there was just there
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: was a lot, There were a lot of there were
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: a lot of narrative decisions that were made that just
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: kind of upset a lot of old school fans. I think, like,
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: I think some of this stuff still kind of I
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: think some of the stuff, like honestly like still works
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: kind of like in the context of the story they're telling.
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: It's not as plot holly as some people were I
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: think initially making it out to be. Yeah, but I
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: have to agree, and even as somebody who didn't play
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: the first two games, like I know of the first
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: two games, but I didn't play the first two games,
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: so I don't have that connection to Shady Sands. When
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: I saw that, creator, I even I was thinking, Wow,
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: that was really bold, Like I definitely think that was
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: a really really uh, just a ballsy move like on
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: the on the part of the show to do what
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: they did to Shady Sands.
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I can definitely see the resentment that the
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: old school fans would have to that, especially as you said,
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: it happens off screen and it's not like a major
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: event that they see unfold, which you know that that
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: might add some connection to it. And yeah, yeah, I'm
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: just say even though I haven't played the games, I
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: intend to at some point in the nearest future, but
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: even still, I'm not going to have that kind of
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: connection that the original fans had. But yeah, it definitely
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: was a big decision. And just quick aside, you know,
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: you brought up that final scene of the Brotherhood's crusade
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: against the NCR there and then when the goal shows
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: up and he talks about that one weakness and the
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: Brotherhood of Steel Army and just starts to blasting all
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: of them, why didn't he do that to Maximus writing.
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: Right when he like it? Like it was that? What
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: was that episode three? Like when mat when when Max
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: steals the power armor and like he's fighting, he's fighting
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: Cooper to save Lucy, you know, in the in the
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: middle of the in the middle of the streets of Philly,
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: and and yeah, he's just blasting away at the armor
• 50:36
  Speaker 2: and it's like.
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: So again, I don't know if they just came up
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: with that later and it didn't go back.
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: I don't know this, Yeah, this is this is again
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: another like just like another thing that I'm talking about
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: when I when I get antsy about the writing, Like,
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: this is the stuff that I'm talking about. This is
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: the reason why I say the show is like a
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: seven or a seven and a half out of ten,
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: you know, as opposed to, oh, I think this is
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: an eight or a nine or you know, it's definitely
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: not a ten out of ten.
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: Right, I Mean, in my experiences, it's like you're writing
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: an essay and by the end you recognize that you've
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: written something a little bit different than what you originally intended,
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: but then you just submit it and you don't go
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: back and get continuity together.
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: There was also a scene where he shot out the lights,
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: where Cooper shot out the lights so that the Brotherhood
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: were in the dark. They've got flashlights on their helmets.
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: That's true.
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: They never turned them on.
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: They forgot the controls. I don't know.
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: What's the button. I don't know. Uh yeah, But like
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: the the now, the the destruction of Shady Sands is
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: tied into the plot of what's going on you actually
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: found find out it's so weird. So apparently apparently Hank's
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: wife found out what was going on with the conspiracy,
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: with the with the Vault thirty one conspira New World
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: Order conspiracy, and she took Lucy and she took Lucy,
• 52:01
  Speaker 2: and she took the brother. I think she took the children,
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: and she tried to run off. She ran, she left
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: Vault thirty three. She went to Shady Sands and she
• 52:11
  Speaker 2: met mul Dab and then I guess they became an item.
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: But Hank didn't. But you know, you know, Hank didn't
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: like this. Hank didn't like that his wife left him
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: and took the kids. And then also I guess because
• 52:26
  Speaker 2: she was jeopardizing the New World Order experiment or whatever.
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: So Hank left the vault. He nuked Shady Sands somehow.
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: We don't know how they may address that in season two. Yeah,
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: we don't know how he pulled that off, but he
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: somehow single handedly nuked Shady Sands and took the kids
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: back and we yeah, and apparently Lucy just has no
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: memory of this ever happening.
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: Right, She has these very vague memories that she's a
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: gas lit into thinking or just came from her experience
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: in the vault. Like with the she remembers herself in
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: the field, just like the field that's in the vault.
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: And so it's kind of like the silver chair right
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: where you know, you never really seen this.
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, you're right, you're right.
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: There was the sun. You just saw this light and
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: you imagine a bigger light.
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: I completely forgot that there was like a farm field,
• 53:20
  Speaker 2: like a small farm field inside thirty one. You're absolutely right,
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: because they show her. They show her like running like
• 53:26
  Speaker 2: through the wheat or whatever like and then like you know,
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: to hug her mom, and it's like except that and
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: then it kind of shows Oh wait, you know that's
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: a skyscraper. You know that's not that's that's not a
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: fake vault background. That's a skyscraper. You know, you're right,
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: I did not, but dang, dude, you just blew my
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: mind there.
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: I don't know, is there is there anything else that you
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: feel like we should throw in here for general Season
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: one talk.
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: The Brotherhood of Steel is really interesting because so you
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: get this in press, you get this impression from Fallout
• 53:58
  Speaker 2: three and fall Out four, and then also in the
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: Fallout TV show that the Brotherhood of Steel is itself
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: kind of like this is kind of like this world
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: power almost and my understanding this was like this was
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: never the case, Like the Brotherhood was always kind of
• 54:15
  Speaker 2: like a small time kind of like hermit techno cult.
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: You know, they were, you know, they were all about
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: hoarding technology for themselves. You know, the the the monkey
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: barbarians of the Wasteland don't deserve any technology. Like we
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: take we you know, we we beat them up, we
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: take their technology, and then we go back to our
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: little hermit hole in the ground. It screw you, you know,
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: And that's basically kind of the whole that's kind of
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: the whole attitude of the Brotherhood of Steel and fall
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: Out one and Fallout two, and uh, they're on and
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: they're they're they're relative they're relatively they're relatively small beans. Uh.
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: In those games. What's really interesting is so like you
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: get you get to fall Out three, and all of
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: the sudden, you know they're not on the West coast.
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: They're on the East coast. And they're the selfless good guys.
• 55:06
  Speaker 2: You know, they're they're expending they're they're expending their precious time,
• 55:10
  Speaker 2: they're precious resources, and even their lives to just help
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: people living in the rebble of DC against the super
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: mutants who are not people. They're just orcs, you know,
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: in in in Fallout three, and so you've got so that,
• 55:32
  Speaker 2: so you've got so you got kind of like a
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: you got kind of like a for anybody who knows
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: the fault the history of Fallout, you have kind of
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: a you have kind of like a weird uh whiplash tween,
• 55:42
  Speaker 2: like you know between old Fallout Brotherhood of Steel, where
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: they're kind of like a you know, they're kind of
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: like this small miserly cult, you know, versus the selfless
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: heroes in Fallout three and New New so New Vegas
• 55:56
  Speaker 2: course corrects kind of brings them back to the old uh,
• 56:00
  Speaker 2: to the old Brotherhood. And not only are they the
• 56:03
  Speaker 2: old Brotherhood, they're basically continuing what they were doing basically
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: by the end of Fallout two, which is they're dying out.
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: Fallout four tries to fix this a little bit by
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: kind of they're kind of returning them to the techno Hermits,
• 56:17
  Speaker 2: and then you get the TV show, and the TV
• 56:20
  Speaker 2: show makes the interesting bold claim like Maximus's boss, Guy
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: the Elder or whatever. The Elder was making the bold
• 56:30
  Speaker 2: claim that the Brotherhood of Steel used to control all
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: of the wasteland, which, if you know Fallout lore, was
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: like never really true. And then also they are claiming
• 56:40
  Speaker 2: that the high Lords or whatever, like the the the
• 56:43
  Speaker 2: High Command of the Brotherhood of Steel are apparently in
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: the Commonwealth now as opposed to the West Coast. They
• 56:49
  Speaker 2: were always on the West Coast. I don't know why
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: they would be on I don't know why the high
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: Command would move to the East coast. Fallout three actually
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: made an interesting justification for the Brotherhood of Deal in
• 57:00
  Speaker 2: Fallout three, which was that they're basically they're basically they're
• 57:07
  Speaker 2: basically an offshoot. They're basically an offshoot that broke off
• 57:10
  Speaker 2: from you know, the main branch because they didn't agree
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: with you know, they didn't agree with the doctrine. So
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: there is you know, so there is some like story
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: justification for why they're being different, for why they're being different.
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: In Fallout three, you just have like this stefing you know,
• 57:25
  Speaker 2: you basically had a schism. You basically had the schism.
• 57:28
  Speaker 2: And what was really really ironic was in the Fallout
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: three DLC you had a group called the Heretics. I
• 57:34
  Speaker 2: think who were I think they were the hair Where
• 57:37
  Speaker 2: are they called the Heretics? I don't remember. Their armor
• 57:39
  Speaker 2: was like black and red. It was it was, it was.
• 57:42
  Speaker 2: It was when you jump into the into the Chinese
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: Simulator anchorage. It's the Chinese Simulator. But like the they
• 57:49
  Speaker 2: were called the Heretics or something like that. The iron
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: the irony, the irony of the Heretics is that they're
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: actually the Original Brotherhood and that the like, you know,
• 58:01
  Speaker 2: it's it's like they have kind of like this this
• 58:03
  Speaker 2: this oxymorn misnomer because they're basically the original Brotherhood and
• 58:07
  Speaker 2: technically it's Elder Lions and Fallout three, who's like, yeah,
• 58:12
  Speaker 2: you know, but but yeah, so there's just so so yeah,
• 58:17
  Speaker 2: there's there's some there's there there's some interesting stuff going on,
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: and you can definitely say like, oh, you know, it's
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: been you know, one hundred and twenty years since or
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: or however, you know, however long it's been since Fallout two,
• 58:32
  Speaker 2: so a lot has changed and YadA, YadA, YadA. But
• 58:35
  Speaker 2: it's very interesting to see the evolution of the Brotherhood
• 58:37
  Speaker 2: of Steel from kind of like, you know, one direction,
• 58:41
  Speaker 2: you know, there one direction, and then the pendulum swings
• 58:44
  Speaker 2: the other direction, and then it kind of like comes
• 58:47
  Speaker 2: back to the middle a little bit, but then kind
• 58:49
  Speaker 2: of goes back in Todd's court just just a nudge.
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, developmentally, you obviously see that there are
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: different understandings of what the Brotherhood to be over time. Now,
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: if we're looking in game trying to make this coherent,
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: then I think that we can say that, Okay, there
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: are some different chapters also, Yeah, with the that can
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: have their own flavoring obviously, especially since you know, at
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: this point we don't get mass regular communication, right, and
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: so it's a little bit fragmented. And then you know,
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: with some of this idea that the Brotherhood used to
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: control the waste land we get in the show, well
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: that very well could be propaganda, right in order to
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: inspire illusions of greatness. So I don't know, it's you
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: you definitely do see some moving development, even though I
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: think that there are ways to make it make some
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: degree of sense internally.
• 59:39
  Speaker 2: No, you know, you could you could like all like
• 59:42
  Speaker 2: all of the all of the pieces. The pieces are there,
• 59:45
  Speaker 2: the room is there to kind of like expand the story.
• 59:48
  Speaker 2: It could to kind of expand and justify the story
• 59:50
  Speaker 2: in the direction that you know, these these showrunners you know,
• 59:55
  Speaker 2: with Todd or whoever kind of you know, want to
• 59:57
  Speaker 2: take it like it's it's you know, it's it's it's
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 2: not it's not there. It's not you know, it's not impossible,
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 2: you act. The framework is absolutely there. It's I will say,
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: though there was there was one thing that kind of
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: like by one thing that bothered me. We've been talking
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 2: about a lot of things. But I can actually I
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 2: can actually back this one up. Tim Kine, Okay, Tim Kaine,
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 2: who is one of the original creators a Fallout, and
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 2: he actually has a YouTube channel under his own name.
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 2: He does like short video blogs every day. You can
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 2: like check out his you know, he did he kind
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 2: of he does video blogs. You can kind of like
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 2: check out his thoughts on you know, retirement in game.
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 2: Actually he's out of retirement. He went back to Obsidian Entertainment,
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 2: so that very very very very recently, which is interesting.
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 2: But he for a while he was talking about retirement.
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 2: He was talking about like, oh, what are your questions
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 2: about the game industry or you know whatever. You know,
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 2: He's he's an interesting fellow. He's got a lot of
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 2: stuff to say. He himself, probably much to the chagrin
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 2: of some of the some of the old school Fallout fans.
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: Much to the chagrin of some of them, at least
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 2: Tim Kane actually likes the show. He actually likes the show.
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 2: He did have one major problem with it, and I
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 2: do agree hit with him on this problem. They I
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 2: feel like the show pulled the curtain back a little
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 2: too much. On Vault Tech. You you have this you basically,
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 2: so Walter Goggins in the past. He finally decides he's
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 2: gonna spy on his wife and he he bugs her
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 2: pit boy or whatever so that he can listen. So
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 2: apparently she's pretty high up in Vault Tech, and she's
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 2: sitting in on these board meetings and leading board meetings,
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 2: so apparently she's pretty important. She's pretty powerful. But basically,
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 2: at the very end of the show, through throughout throughout
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 2: the course of the show, while Lucy is having her
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 2: adventure in the wasteland trying to save her dad before
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 2: finding out he's kind of a terrible person. Her brother,
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 2: who is staying back in Vault thirty three, is uncovering
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 2: the conspiracy of Vault thirty one, and at the same
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 2: time he's uncovering the conspiracy of Vault thirty one, and
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 2: Lucy is finding out that her dad is a bad
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 2: person involved with the conspiracy, and the answers that Cooper
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 2: Walter Goggin's character, the Ghoul, is looking for for kind
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 2: of the stuff that he wants to know with Muldaver,
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 2: like it's all tied, it's all connected. It all goes
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 2: back to Vault thirty one in Vault Tech. So like
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 2: you find so you find out like from this flashback
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 2: that uh Cooper has that lines up perfectly with Lucy's
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 2: brothers discoveries, with Lucy's discovery of her dad, is that
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 2: basically Vault Tech the way the show frames it, Vault
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 2: Tech conspired to drop the bombs themselves, right, So in
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 2: in Fallout, this was always intended to be a mystery. Yeah,
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 2: like this was so like this was this This is
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 2: definitely implied. This is definitely absolutely implied in the games
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 2: that Vultech had something to do with it. They just
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 2: never outright confirmed it. And they left plenty of room
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 2: and the perfect political landscape and tension for all of
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 2: these superpower any one of these people, you know, could
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 2: have fired a bomb like you know, like you know,
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 2: ahead ahead of anybody, ahead of anyone else, and thrown
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 2: the other factions plans kind of like into into chaos. Right.
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 2: The Fallout show makes it a little more clear cut,
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 2: which Tim Kaine didn't really like. I didn't really care
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 2: for it either. However, I will say there is still
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 2: room in the show that Vaultech maybe still didn't do it,
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 2: simply because we don't see Vaultech actually launch a bomb.
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 2: They're just talking about launching a bomb, so we could art,
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 2: we could look at it and argue maybe that maybe
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 2: the you know, maybe the plan didn't come to fruition,
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 2: like exactly according to their designs where they were the
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 2: ones to push the button. Uh, we we don't know.
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 2: But it's it's a really it's a really cool. It's
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 2: honestly like just like like I really like I want
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 2: to stress like the uncovering of the Conspiracy.
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: Is really really good.
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like it's it's it's a it's a fantastic mystery
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 2: that comes together just kind of like in a wonderful
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 2: way for all for all of the main characters.
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I agree that the as we move
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 1: towards the end of the series, it is it is
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 1: fantastic how they tie together the things that they've been
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: building up. And I don't really have a whole lot
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 1: to add to that, but I I just I think
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 1: that it is done in a very compelling kind of way.
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 1: Where at the beginning of the series, I'm not convinced
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 1: that they really knew what they were doing, which is
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: why a lot of it seems kind of disjointed, But
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 1: by the end, I feel like they really did figure
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: it out, and uh, it's fantastic.
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 2: I agree. It feels like I don't and I don't
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 2: know why they struggled so badly with kind of some
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 2: of those elements, because it feels like it shouldn't have
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 2: been that hard, uh, but for one reason or another.
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 2: Like again, like the show, the show just like by
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 2: like you know, by the middle and to the end,
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 2: the show just absolutely comes together and it it's like,
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 2: it's it's a it's a really really fun watch. It's
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 2: it's it's definitely, it's definitely really cool. I I do
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 2: have a question, m hm, so's this was because this
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 2: was something, this was something that I didn't really get
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 2: a chance to look at again. So I don't know,
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 2: if you know something, what the heck was going on
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 2: with Vault four? What was and and the conspira like nothing,
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 2: excuse me, let me start over, let me start the
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 2: experiments in Vault four.
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that was the one. It's been a wile time
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: I've seen it where they've got like like fish people
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 1: or I don't.
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, like that they showed that. So it was
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 2: like they kind of set you up to think that
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 2: all the people in Vault four are bad, and then
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 2: you get to the end and it's like, oh no,
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 2: we're not bad, We're actually good. You can go, you
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 2: can leave if you want.
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: The villain of the show.
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 2: Well that's like that. That's like half of the population,
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 2: like they have they have like they so like you've
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 2: got the original descendants of Vault four, who are the
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 2: genetic experiments, and then you've got the other population who
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 2: are like the survivors from Shady Sands and they partake
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 2: in this really.
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: Bizarre, weird sexual thing.
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 2: Nasty ritual where like they undress and they cover themselves
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 2: and the ashes of their of their dead Shady Sands
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 2: like family, and they drink somebody's blood. I don't know
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 2: who's blood, if it's if it's blood from Shady Sands,
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 2: I want to know where they got it from, and
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 2: how like it's it's so, it's so, and then yeah,
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 2: and then they have like the poster of Muldaver who
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 2: they call the Lady of the Flame or something. I
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 2: don't know. It's so weird, it's so so weird that
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 2: that I wasn't I wasn't going to ask about that.
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 2: That was that like, But my question was my question
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 2: was like because you literally see this disturbing scene where
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 2: like this lady in a tank gives birth to piranhas
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 2: and then the piranhas eat and then the piranhas eat her.
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 1: To me, like, how does that?
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 2: How did that make sense? With like, oh, wait, no,
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 2: there was a big misunderstanding. We're not the bad guys.
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 2: You can you can leave.
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 1: See to me, I don't think they're ever going to
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 1: do anything with any of that. I think it was
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 1: just kind of there.
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 2: I feel like they I feel like I missed something.
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: Well. To me, honestly, it's one of the scenes, and
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 1: there are several scenes within the show where they have
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 1: something that's just grotesque and nasty for no real narrative
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 1: purpose other than say this is gross and nasty. We
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 1: want to make sure that you see this.
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 2: I think it feels like it feels like because so
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 2: part so part of it is part of It's definitely
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 2: kind of like the you know, the the the cultural
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 2: sensibilities of kind of like what's acceptible on television or
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 2: acceptable or at least tolerable on television these days. But
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 2: what I've noticed in particular with Amazon, with Amazon and Netflix,
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 2: and maybe Amazon more so than Netflix, but they're both
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 2: kind of operating in the same ballpark where you know,
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 2: we're not typical network TV. Yeah, so we can we
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 2: can get away with more nastiness than what you see
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 2: even on regular television now just because we can. And
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 2: that it feels honestly like I can't. There's a lot
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 2: of stuff that I can't. I can't see any particular
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 2: reason or justification for it other than just kind of
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 2: like grossness for grossness's sake. I mean, like you could
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 2: look at Band of Brothers, for example, and you could say, like,
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 2: you know, you could look at the grotesque violence and
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 2: like Band of Brothers, but like you could also argue
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 2: and say that's making a point like the show. The
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 2: show is making a point that, hey, war is not
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 2: like you know, the fun movies that your dad and
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 2: grandparents grew up you know, World War two movies, you
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 2: know in black and white that your parents and grandparents
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 2: grew up watching as a kid. Like this was like
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 2: this was horrible, Like this was this, this this was
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 2: absolutely like you you can you can look at the
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 2: shocking violence and Band of Brothers and see it as
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 2: basically like a sobering educationational experience. Correct, And that is
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 2: not what's going on here. It's just like yo, yo,
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 2: hey watch Lady give Birth to Piranhas and then watch
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 2: the Piranhas Eater Like it's like, yeah, it's it's like
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 2: just because because because we can.
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 1: I'm yeah, I'm not a fan of those parts of
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 1: the show where it is just that let's make it
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 1: gross because we can make it gross. It adds nothing
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 1: to the narrative, nothing to the plot, no real mystery
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 1: to solve is just gross and to me, that's a
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 1: point against the show.
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 2: Well they dropped it too, like it didn't it like
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 2: that that whole scene didn't have anything to do with anything,
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 2: Like I said, I was like, that's why I was asking,
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 2: like did I miss something?
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 1: No, I don't think it serves any narrative purpose.
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah that was but yeah, so that was that. That
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 2: was that that that was weird.
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean at least like when you're playing the game.
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 1: I mean, it'll hint at like weird stuff going on,
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 1: but for the most part, it doesn't show you stuff
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 1: to that degree. I think it is just for shock value,
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 1: which is pretty immature to me.
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree, I do. I do appreciate though, because
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 2: you know how like with the newer games there is
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 2: kind of like a running trend of even the player
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 2: character's body is not sack or sanct It's like in
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 2: Fallout three, H point lookout was it? You go you
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 2: go to the swamp, you go to the bayou and
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 2: fall Out three that dlz H. Yeah, like you when
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 2: you go there, like you know, they they they steal
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 2: a part of your brain, they put it in a
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 2: jar or or like old word blues in your vegas
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 2: where they kind of like rip out your brain, your heart,
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 2: and your lung. Now you can get them back. You
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 2: can get your brain, your heart, and your lungs back,
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 2: but they rip them out and replace them with like
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 2: cyber like cyber brains, cyber lung, cyber heart, you know,
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 2: kind of goofy stuff like that. You like, I like
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 2: there there is there is some of that weirdness that
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 2: I do kind of appreciate where it's like, hey, like
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 2: you know, Lucy's the main character, but like she's not,
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 2: uh you know, like like the the the bodies of
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 2: our main characters are not sank or sycd in the
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 2: in this specific sense, right, but that where where where
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 2: where where Coop? Where Cooper like cut off her finger
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 2: and then and then she she she liked was it
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 2: was it her finger or did she so a different
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 2: finger back on? I don't remember, so so like the
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 2: rest of the so like for the rest of the show,
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 2: she's walking around and she's got like a blue.
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 1: Finger, right see, And that's the kind of stuff like yeah,
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 1: it's it's kind of nasty, but at the same time
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 1: it's at least tied into ongoing narrative which makes it substantial,
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 1: and I'm okay with that, especially in Fallout.
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but I don't know, it was just it was
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 2: like one of those things where it was like, you know,
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 2: oh my gosh, like that happened. That's kind of crazy.
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 2: But at the same I don't know, Lucy's blue finger
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 2: fits more I think than the other the other the Yeah, that.
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 1: All right, Well, is there anything else that you want
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 1: to mention?
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 2: I I I didn't. I didn't watch the show like
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 2: I didn't re excuse me, I didn't rewatch very important distinction.
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 1: I didn't.
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 2: I didn't. I didn't rewatch the show. So I don't
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 2: really have like I don't really have like a whole
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 2: lot more. Again, I really do want to stress that
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 2: the that you know, once you like you know again
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 2: once in my in my opinion, once you get to
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 2: episode four, it really does become like it really does
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 2: become just like a really really fun show to watch.
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And I will say that, well, you know, reviews
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 1: can be helpful or not helpful. The season two has
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 1: gotten very high reviews going into the first several episodes
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 1: of people who have you know, like the critics to
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 1: whatever who have seen it Rotten tomatoes. So actually episode
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 1: one dropped, uh today, right when we started this conversation,
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 1: So okay, yeah, because they decided to release it a
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 1: day early, so it was supposed to be tomorrow originally.
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 2: Gosh darn it.
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So after this, I guess I have to hop
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 1: over there and see what's going on. Yeah, And so
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 1: moving forward, you know, I don't feel a need to
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 1: do like episode by episode thing, but you know, maybe
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 1: we'll be like a mid season and postseason or something,
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 1: you know, I mean, we want to.
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 2: There is there is stuff. There is stuff that you
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 2: could absolutely you could absolutely go through the episodes and
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 2: kind of like pick through, pick through themes and ideas
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 2: and stuff like like like like I like I mentioned earlier,
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 2: like with all of the dichotomies between Cooper's past and
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 2: his present as a goal and just how again how
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 2: the that's just kind of like wonderfully narratively mirrored and
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 2: framed like like there like there there is you know,
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 2: there there is stuff going on that's just like uh
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 2: really really fun. Oh I did see something. This is random.
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 2: So I'm I had a larger point to make with this.
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to do it now because you know,
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 2: it's it's uh like it's it's kind of too late
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 2: for that, but I do want to mention something. You know,
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 2: how the bears are called Yao Guai? Did you did
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 2: you really? Did you notice? I don't know, maybe you
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 2: already did. Did you notice that yague yao guay is
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 2: a play on yogi Yogi bear?
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 1: Maybe I think once upon time, but I may have forgotten.
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 2: So so I want to I want to say it's
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 2: a play on a Chinese word for like a monster,
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 2: for like a monster, but there's also kind of like
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 2: another layer, another pun layer where Yao guai is Yogi
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 2: Yogi bear.
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 1: I appreciate that.
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that there was going to be a broader there
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 2: was going to be a broader context for that, but
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 2: we're not doing that now. Yeah, because because we we
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 2: we we we that that that ship sailed.
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 1: You know, we'll leave on that level of profundity, all right, Yeah,
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 1: so we'll go ahead and wrap it there. Appreciate you
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 1: join me for this chat, and like I said, well,
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 1: we'll talk something about season two and whether it's middle
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 1: or maybe at the end, but look forward to seeing
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 1: where it goes. But we'll go and wrap up there.
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 2: Thanks for having with me, having me I can't talk.
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 1: Thanks for good night all right. Thank you for listening
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 1: to Mythic Mind Games podcast or watching over on my
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 1: channel on YouTube. Make sure that you're subscribe to both
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 1: so that you don't miss anything. This concludes this main
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 1: series that I've been doing on Fallout for now. As
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 1: I mentioned, sometime next year, as I give myself the
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 1: time to work through each of the games and really
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 1: put some more developed thought into them, I really want
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 1: to do a whole Fallout in philosophy study, just kind
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 1: of working through all the games, applying some thought connecting
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 1: ideas in the games to the broader history of ideas.
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 1: You know. That's kind of my thing. You know, I
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 1: am a professor of philosophy and theology by trade, which
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 1: as I've mentioned before, and so I really like dealing
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 1: with these franchises that I've enjoyed for quite a while,
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 1: and I like taking those into my more professional kind
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 1: of thought, and so I look forward to doing that
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 1: next year. For now, as I mentioned, I'm not gonna
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 1: be doing full discussions on each of the episodes of
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 1: the second season of Fallout, but I am providing some
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 1: just quick like thirty second first impressions of each episode
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 1: over on my YouTube channel. Maybe at some point I'll
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 1: combine those together to just make a sequence of impressions
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 1: for the podcast, but for now that's just gonna be
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 1: over on YouTube. To make sure you're subbed over there.
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 1: And this is going to be the last main episode
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 1: of the Mythic Mind Games podcast for twenty twenty five,
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 1: although I will be putting out one more episode across
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 1: on YouTube as well as across all three Mythic Mind podcasts.
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 1: That just details some of where we've been this year,
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 1: but also that tells you where we're going in the
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 1: various arenas in literature and philosophy, in games, in movies
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 1: and shows. There are a lot of things that we
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 1: started this year that are going to be moving and
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 1: just increasingly more exciting and then I believe truly worthwhile,
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 1: truly profitable directions, and so make sure that you keep
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 1: an eye off for that. Make sure that you are
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 1: subscribed to my YouTube channel, make sure that you are
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 1: subscribed to all three Mythic Mind podcasts, that is Mythic Mind,
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 1: Mythic Mind Games, and Mythic Mind Movies and Shows. The
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 1: next thing to come out from Mythic Mind will be
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 1: actually it'll be on all channels that just kind of
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 1: looking back, looking ahead discussion also at some point within
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 1: the next few days, and we're putting out our live
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 1: watching commentary we did on the Movies podcast on the
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 1: Star Wars Holiday special, and then I'm going to have
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 1: one more main episode coming out over on Mythic Mind
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 1: and my YouTube channel of course. So still some stuff
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 1: happening here, but I look forward to getting more into
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 1: more of that with you very soon. But that's for
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 1: now until next time. Gods your hero when you're at
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 1: ground zero can call out to the fall out back
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 1: to me