Latest / Ask the Lawyer / 08/06/2026 Ask the Lawyer with Tom Peyton

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08/06/2026 Ask the Lawyer with Tom Peyton · Ask the Lawyer

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Speaker 1: The views and opinions expressed on this program do not
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Speaker 1: necessarily reflect the views and opinions of five AD wchs
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Speaker 1: it's employees or WVRC media.
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Speaker 2: Of course, Oh created equal, Well, mass, come here in
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Speaker 2: a cape can Rob.
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Speaker 3: You're gonna put the power of patent on your side
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Speaker 3: this morning. You don't have to fight the law, put
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Speaker 3: it on your side with the Payton Law Firm. We
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Speaker 3: have Tom Payton in studio with us this morning taking
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Speaker 3: your phone calls and your text messages. You can give
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Speaker 3: us a call this morning three zero four three four
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Speaker 3: five fifty eight fifty eight three four five fifty eight
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Speaker 3: fifty eight. You can text threes are a four non
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Speaker 3: three five five zero zero eight. Tom Payton from the
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Speaker 3: Payton Law Firm is in studio with this morning. Tom,
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Speaker 3: Good morning, How are you doing this morning? I'm doing
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Speaker 3: pretty well. I can't complain too much about uh coming
1:00
Speaker 3: back from vacation, first time back from vacation. Turning on
1:03
Speaker 3: the right microphone will help for you, and things are
1:05
Speaker 3: going pretty well. He got me on now.
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Speaker 4: Oh yeah, everything's all good. Everything's all good.
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Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm coming back from vacation too. So his dad's
1:12
Speaker 5: been here the last couple of weeks, and we had
1:15
Speaker 5: our annual family vacation trip last week, which I take
1:19
Speaker 5: my laptop and do some work but try not try
1:22
Speaker 5: not to do too much work while I'm down there,
1:26
Speaker 5: but still getting caught up on some return calls and
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Speaker 5: things like that. If anyone's waiting for a call out there,
1:32
Speaker 5: you're on the You're on the list, so uh, I
1:34
Speaker 5: will get to you when again I will be. We're
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Speaker 5: out of town next week, actually do the My wife
1:41
Speaker 5: always wanted to go to the Grand can't you. So
1:42
Speaker 5: we're going to go do a hike down the Rim
1:47
Speaker 5: and stay in some type of we're not not we
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Speaker 5: don't take our own tents and things, but they have
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Speaker 5: something set up for you to stay two days down
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Speaker 5: there and then hike back up the the Rim. So
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Speaker 5: hopefully's isn't my last. No, I'll be fine as far
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Speaker 5: as I mean, it's hot out there this time of year.
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Speaker 5: Kind of looking forward to see. I like going out west,
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Speaker 5: but I am one thing. I mean, snakes, spiders, the
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Speaker 5: normal stuff that make people squeamss doesn't bother me, but
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Speaker 5: heights does. So we're going to see how this, uh,
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Speaker 5: this trip wears out. Where's whears on me?
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Speaker 4: I don't know.
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Speaker 5: We'll see how it goes.
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Speaker 3: But uh, there was there was a place not too
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Speaker 3: far away from the Grand King. And when when I
2:33
Speaker 3: was out that way, I was on a budget. We
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Speaker 3: were camping and uh in national forest land and and
2:39
Speaker 3: so my budget was like dollars a day and not
2:41
Speaker 3: that much. We had to skip a lot of the
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Speaker 3: national parks. What's great about that area out there? It's
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Speaker 3: like you skip one and sure it's not the Grand King,
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Speaker 3: but it's beautiful everywhere, and you can go to any
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Speaker 3: number of parks and get out there and see things.
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Speaker 3: But went across the apparently there's several places called this,
2:55
Speaker 3: so I do uh this so long ago ago. Now
2:57
Speaker 3: I would have a hard time pinpointing. But in southern
2:59
Speaker 3: Arizona somewhere we were one of those cities where they
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Speaker 3: film all the cowboy shows. There was this this place
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Speaker 3: called the Devil's Backbone, which was this ridge that went
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Speaker 3: between these two areas where it was a sheer drop
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Speaker 3: off of either side. That was one of the like
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Speaker 3: I wasn't expecting that and we ended up like driving
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Speaker 3: around and it was just on the map. I didn't
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Speaker 3: really know that it was this type of thing. I
3:18
Speaker 3: have to admit, driving across that thing was a little
3:21
Speaker 3: scary to me because in my memory it was like
3:24
Speaker 3: being suspended high up the near I'm sure it probably
3:26
Speaker 3: wasn't as bad of that in reality, but at the
3:28
Speaker 3: time it seemed very, very bad.
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Speaker 5: You just describing as sheer dropped off makes my stomach
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Speaker 5: start to turn.
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Speaker 4: So really it made me a little nervous. It did.
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Speaker 5: I'm in decent shape, and it's a long hike and
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Speaker 5: the heat up and down, which I don't think will
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Speaker 5: be my problem, but we'll see. Hopefully I make it back,
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Speaker 5: and if I do, I'll give a full recap, maybe
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Speaker 5: on the on the show after next week, but I
3:48
Speaker 5: will be I think when we're I haven't looked at it.
3:51
Speaker 5: I assume we don't have cellular phone service for a
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Speaker 5: couple of days while we're down in the in the canyon,
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Speaker 5: so I will be out of out of touch for
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Speaker 5: a couple of days next week. But I'm looking forward
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Speaker 5: to getting out there and seeing something different.
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Speaker 4: We're close to age.
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Speaker 3: Does that mean that you have you have found the
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Speaker 3: appropriate Brady Bunch episode to get you prepared for the
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Speaker 3: grand For the Grand Canyon vacation.
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Speaker 5: I probably should look at one because I'm sure it
4:17
Speaker 5: all turned out well in the end. Of course, Breddy Bunch,
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Speaker 5: my wife and my two kids are going, so we'll see. Uh,
4:25
Speaker 5: you got a lot of dynamics there. But looking forward
4:27
Speaker 5: to trying something different and see how it goes. But
4:31
Speaker 5: anyway around here, I've been keeping track of the news
4:34
Speaker 5: and first friend kind of summer break for us spring
4:39
Speaker 5: court in the Western New Supreme Court. We've got the
4:43
Speaker 5: we'll call the Greenbrier saga continuing and we have a
4:47
Speaker 5: deadline tomorrow. You might recall that, you know, the Greenbrier's
4:55
Speaker 5: most significant creditors filed a lawsuit asking that receiver be appointed,
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Speaker 5: which is kind of a caretaker manager of a business
5:04
Speaker 5: or assets, claiming that the Greenbrier's being not managed properly
5:11
Speaker 5: from a financial standpoint, therefore it's diminishing the value of
5:15
Speaker 5: the lenders collateral. And the response in the Greenbrier generally
5:19
Speaker 5: has been We're going to pay off that debt and
5:24
Speaker 5: refinance meaning borrow from a different lender or company to
5:29
Speaker 5: pay off this lender who is essentially it's not straight foreclosure,
5:34
Speaker 5: but seeking judicial intervention to protect their collateral and ultimately
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Speaker 5: maybe get control of the Greenbrier. And so this started
5:44
Speaker 5: months and months ago and the Greenbrier, so we got
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Speaker 5: a deal in the works to pay that debt off
5:51
Speaker 5: of this creditor, and Judge Volk down in the Southern
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Speaker 5: District US District Court for the Southern District of West
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Speaker 5: Virginia is presiding over the cave and gave a deadline
6:02
Speaker 5: and then extended the deadline for the deal to get
6:05
Speaker 5: done through tomorrow. And uh, there's been status reports filed
6:11
Speaker 5: by the attorney for the Greenbrier. Looks like they're they're
6:14
Speaker 5: in the due diligence process getting getting the tease crossed
6:20
Speaker 5: and the eyes dotted. But it's extremely complex transaction. It
6:26
Speaker 5: sounds like it doesn't involve just a conventionional loan, but
6:28
Speaker 5: actually the lender will somehow be a some sort of
6:33
Speaker 5: partner and the ownership of a of a new entity
6:37
Speaker 5: that is being created that will then kind of be
6:39
Speaker 5: the umbrell entity of all the what we think of
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Speaker 5: as the Greenbrier assets. It doesn't sound like to me
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Speaker 5: that they're going to have the refinancing or financing available tomorrow,
6:54
Speaker 5: which is the new deadline to pay off the previous
6:59
Speaker 5: or the current lender, because when you I don't know
7:05
Speaker 5: that simply borrowing money or additional funds and having a
7:11
Speaker 5: new creditor would trigger any implications with the Westernia Lottery Commission.
7:16
Speaker 5: But when you change principal ownership of an entity, a
7:21
Speaker 5: corporation or an LLC, then the Lottery Commission has to
7:26
Speaker 5: analyze that and make sure you know that new owning
7:30
Speaker 5: entity or person is still qualified to be issued a
7:38
Speaker 5: license under the Westernian Lottery Commission. And they don't have
7:41
Speaker 5: a regular meeting scheduled today or tomorrow as I understand,
7:45
Speaker 5: and the regular meeting is towards the end of August.
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Speaker 5: I think they might have a special meeting set up
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Speaker 5: for a couple of weeks from now, but I don't
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Speaker 5: see how the lottery. I don't think they're going to
7:56
Speaker 5: get Lottery Commission approval by tomorrow. So we'll see, oh
8:00
Speaker 5: it plays out if they what I I'll do some
8:04
Speaker 5: predicting here and we'll see. I suspect there'll be another
8:09
Speaker 5: filing tomorrow by the Justice Greenbrier Entities, most likely saying
8:17
Speaker 5: pretty much everything is ready to go except for the
8:20
Speaker 5: Lottery Commission approval, and they'll ask for another couple of
8:22
Speaker 5: weeks or maybe through the end of the month to
8:25
Speaker 5: get that done. I don't know if Judge Volk will
8:29
Speaker 5: agree with that, because he's already gave him a couple
8:33
Speaker 5: of pretty stern deadlines and then extended those at the
8:38
Speaker 5: same time, he set some hearings in September. If they
8:45
Speaker 5: don't meet the deadline of tomorrow, so you know, if
8:50
Speaker 5: they don't get.
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Speaker 1: The deal done.
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Speaker 5: Tomorrow, then it's they don't lose the case. I mean,
8:58
Speaker 5: that's what you got to remember. At the same time,
9:00
Speaker 5: so it's a if they the judges basically stayed the case,
9:04
Speaker 5: meaning stopped he's not hearing arguments on the merits of
9:07
Speaker 5: the of the initial filing. He's stayed those allegations, you
9:13
Speaker 5: could say, pending the greenbriers, giving them an opportunity to
9:19
Speaker 5: pay off the creditor that filed the case. So if
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Speaker 5: they don't meet the deadline tomorrow, they don't default on
9:27
Speaker 5: the case or automatically lose what Judge vocus, well, then
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Speaker 5: the case is going to proceed on the merits based
9:33
Speaker 5: on the initial allegations made in the complaint. We're not
9:35
Speaker 5: going to just keep this case on hold. Why you
9:39
Speaker 5: continue to try and basically come up with money to
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Speaker 5: pay off this creditor. So there's a deadline, but it's
9:49
Speaker 5: not a deadline if they don't meet tomorrow that they
9:51
Speaker 5: just lose the case. It just means it proceeds in
9:54
Speaker 5: due course like any other case of this type are
9:59
Speaker 5: also and so you know, my inclination is Judge volt
10:04
Speaker 5: probably won't give them another extension, but he'll keep the
10:09
Speaker 5: dates set in September for the normal type of hearings
10:13
Speaker 5: you would have in this case if it wasn't stalled.
10:18
Speaker 5: At the same time, I'm fairly confident in saying that
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Speaker 5: if they come up with the money from whatever source
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Speaker 5: to pay off the creditor that filed the lawsuit in full.
10:32
Speaker 5: It's I don't remember the number, it's like three hundred
10:34
Speaker 5: million or something like that. And of course it's I
10:37
Speaker 5: suspect they haven't been making payments during this process, so
10:40
Speaker 5: interest is continuing to accruise, so that amounts going up,
10:43
Speaker 5: probably on a daily basis. But if if they have
10:48
Speaker 5: the money to pay off the full balance ode to
10:52
Speaker 5: that creditor up to a foreclosure or some final ruling
10:57
Speaker 5: by Judge Vocal on the merits of the case, I
10:59
Speaker 5: think they can still pay it off. So I my
11:04
Speaker 5: prediction from monitoring monitoring it from a satellite view is
11:08
Speaker 5: that they won't meet the deadline of closing the deal tomorrow.
11:13
Speaker 5: Judge Vulk will not continue to stay or halt the
11:17
Speaker 5: case for them. But if what they're representing is true
11:23
Speaker 5: that the deal is getting done, they may end up
11:29
Speaker 5: paying off that debt before the September hearings that are
11:34
Speaker 5: coming out. That's the way I kind of see it
11:36
Speaker 5: playing out. All of that, though, of course, is just
11:40
Speaker 5: taking the filings by the Justice Greenbrier Entities attorney at
11:46
Speaker 5: face value that there's no problems with the deal. It's
11:50
Speaker 5: just logistics. It's moving forward. And this started, I mean,
11:56
Speaker 5: the idea of refinancing or getting a leather lender or
12:01
Speaker 5: creditor to help them pay off the current debt maybe
12:05
Speaker 5: started in May. Something this complex, it's not unusual for
12:10
Speaker 5: it to take months and months and months for this
12:13
Speaker 5: type deal to get done, so obviously they've been trying
12:16
Speaker 5: to fast track it. But even I mean, if anybody
12:19
Speaker 5: out there has had to might have a little bit
12:22
Speaker 5: of a credit issue and is trying to borrow money
12:25
Speaker 5: to purchase a home or something through a conventional mortgage,
12:27
Speaker 5: even that can take sixty days or more to get
12:31
Speaker 5: the logistics done with appraisals and paperwork and things like that,
12:35
Speaker 5: So it's not unusual for it to take this long.
12:38
Speaker 5: It's just obviously the Greenbrier entities have pushed this to
12:41
Speaker 5: the to the brink.
12:44
Speaker 3: I was want to ask about that, is that from
12:47
Speaker 3: the outside looking in on things like this, and I've
12:48
Speaker 3: been a business owner in the past and I've never
12:51
Speaker 3: run a foul of things along these lines, but being
12:53
Speaker 3: basically cognizant of different laws and penalties and things along
12:56
Speaker 3: those lines, in the case of something that's as massive
13:00
Speaker 3: as the Greenbrier, there's there's some benefit to the levers
13:03
Speaker 3: of law that they're able to apply because of the skill.
13:06
Speaker 3: I guess that that wouldn't be available necessarily to a
13:09
Speaker 3: smaller business or something along those lines, because it's the
13:11
Speaker 3: complication and things that goes behind it. It just seems
13:14
Speaker 3: like that there's been other businesses that have had lesser
13:17
Speaker 3: problems that get submerged by those issues, where whereas the
13:21
Speaker 3: Greenbrier because of it it's a good legal team, or
13:23
Speaker 3: because of the size of the issue, because if it's
13:25
Speaker 3: standing in the state, you know, really has gotten every
13:29
Speaker 3: opportunity to make to make this right, which is maybe
13:31
Speaker 3: is the right thing. I'm just it looks like an
13:33
Speaker 3: imbalance when you're from the outside looking in on this.
13:35
Speaker 5: Well conventionally, and I'm not really sure why it took
13:39
Speaker 5: this filing lawsuit. So in West Virginia, if you buy
13:45
Speaker 5: a home and bar against to purchase it, which most
13:51
Speaker 5: people do, it you get your It's not like a
13:58
Speaker 5: car title, you know, if you borrow when you buy
14:00
Speaker 5: a car, as you know where most people know, you know,
14:03
Speaker 5: the lender holds the original title because you transfer titles
14:08
Speaker 5: with motor vehicles by you sign. The seller signs the
14:13
Speaker 5: back of the title, the original title, and then it's
14:17
Speaker 5: passed along to the buyer and then they take it
14:19
Speaker 5: to DMV and it's circulated through the process and the
14:21
Speaker 5: title is reissued in the name of the purchaser. When
14:24
Speaker 5: you when you borrow money against land in West Virginia,
14:30
Speaker 5: you you get a I mean you have a deed
14:33
Speaker 5: you own the property. Then there's what's called a deed
14:36
Speaker 5: of trust recorded, which is essentially a mortgage document that
14:41
Speaker 5: places a lean against your home and it's recorded at
14:45
Speaker 5: the courthouse. So if I go to do a title search,
14:47
Speaker 5: I'll see that old Dell Cooper owns this property, but
14:51
Speaker 5: he's this mortgage document's also recorded, which shows he owed
14:56
Speaker 5: fifty dollars on it. And then you can sell it.
15:02
Speaker 5: And then when you sell it, the purchase money you
15:05
Speaker 5: get at the closing immediately goes to pay off that loan.
15:11
Speaker 5: If you and I really get into this, I have
15:15
Speaker 5: a decent number of clients that owner finance when they
15:19
Speaker 5: sell property. I mean they act as the bank, so
15:21
Speaker 5: they're the they're the lender in this equation, and it's
15:24
Speaker 5: it's it's not as simple as just taking the property back.
15:29
Speaker 5: If the person you sold it to quit's making their
15:33
Speaker 5: mortgage payment to you, you have to go through a
15:35
Speaker 5: foreclosure process, and in West Virginia normally that's non judicial.
15:41
Speaker 5: So you'll see if you look in the legal ads
15:43
Speaker 5: of the paper and you'll see notice of trustee sales.
15:46
Speaker 5: Those are foreclosure sales where someone's failed to pay their mortgage.
15:53
Speaker 5: And then normally a lawyer is the trustee and they'll
15:56
Speaker 5: advertise the fact that the property that the mortgages in
16:01
Speaker 5: default and that there's going to be a sale on
16:03
Speaker 5: the courthouse steps normally it's where they do it. I've
16:06
Speaker 5: seen some auctioneers do them here over the last couple
16:09
Speaker 5: of years and then go to the sale and you know,
16:14
Speaker 5: I've done them. You offer for sale, I've got here's
16:16
Speaker 5: the legally described property minimum bid X. And then most
16:23
Speaker 5: of the time there's a requirement that any purchaser at
16:28
Speaker 5: that sale it's like a live auction, have some certificate
16:35
Speaker 5: certified funds of a certain percentage of the total purchase price,
16:39
Speaker 5: and then they got to pay the balance shortly thereafter.
16:44
Speaker 5: And when that's done, the trustee has a right to
16:46
Speaker 5: just issue a deed to the new purchaser and it's done,
16:49
Speaker 5: and then they own it and they've got it. Then
16:51
Speaker 5: if somebody's still living in it, they have have to
16:54
Speaker 5: go in and address that occupant. Sometimes it results in
16:58
Speaker 5: a in an eviction, per sheeting and that kind of thing.
17:01
Speaker 5: So obviously with the Greenbrier, this lender has many many
17:07
Speaker 5: parcels of real property, land or collateral for the loan. Normally,
17:12
Speaker 5: on loans of this magnitude, too, you have to pledge
17:17
Speaker 5: all the business' assets. We've seen in this case there's
17:20
Speaker 5: even personal guarantees by individuals. I think the justice family,
17:25
Speaker 5: which can make them personally liable on the debt. Now,
17:28
Speaker 5: why this it sounds they were in default based on them.
17:35
Speaker 5: It had multiple what we'll call modification agreements over the
17:39
Speaker 5: years with not necessarily this lender, but their predecessor, and
17:44
Speaker 5: normally they have to take when they buy that loan,
17:46
Speaker 5: it's subject to all the prior agreements signed by the
17:49
Speaker 5: previous lender from whom they got the debt. Why they
17:55
Speaker 5: didn't just go through the foreclosure process. Sure, that's what happened,
18:01
Speaker 5: I believe last summer or last year, maybe in the
18:05
Speaker 5: year before they were going to you might recall they
18:08
Speaker 5: were going to be foreclosed to point there was a
18:09
Speaker 5: notice of foreclosure and then the Greenbrier Justice Entities filed
18:12
Speaker 5: lawsuit to halt that. Then they came up with money
18:16
Speaker 5: to uh, not pay off that entire debt, I don't believe,
18:21
Speaker 5: but enough money to satisfy that particular lender to pull
18:25
Speaker 5: the property from the foreclosure sale and it was canceled. Now,
18:29
Speaker 5: this particular lender then is rather than gone through the
18:33
Speaker 5: that non judicial meaning no court involvement type foreclosure sale,
18:38
Speaker 5: has filed a lawsuit asking for a receiver. They want
18:42
Speaker 5: somebody to come in and monitor the assets, probably in
18:48
Speaker 5: the process of what will eventually be a foreclosure sale.
18:52
Speaker 5: And maybe it's a way just to leverage the Greenbrier
18:55
Speaker 5: to try and work a deal with them. Obviously we
18:58
Speaker 5: know that the current lender is is a it's a
19:01
Speaker 5: separate entity, but ultimately the owners when you get down
19:04
Speaker 5: to it, or the Omni group, the family that runs
19:08
Speaker 5: a big hotel chain, I think they. I think they
19:12
Speaker 5: operate the homestead too, so which I haven't been there
19:16
Speaker 5: in years and years, so I'm not sure how well
19:18
Speaker 5: it operates. You know, we all better. I don't frequent
19:22
Speaker 5: the Greenbrier. It's impressive when you go down there. I
19:24
Speaker 5: will say, over the last few years when I've been there,
19:26
Speaker 5: it has been less impressive, uh not maintained the way
19:31
Speaker 5: it had been in the past. Will be better off
19:34
Speaker 5: if the Omni group gets it and runs it, I
19:37
Speaker 5: don't know, tend to think. I mean they have the
19:40
Speaker 5: I think they have the wherewithal to put resources into
19:43
Speaker 5: it to improve it. But well, we'll kind of see
19:49
Speaker 5: how that how that plays out. There's and then you
19:52
Speaker 5: have all these that's one lender that sad maybe three
19:57
Speaker 5: hundred million. We'll just say, and then as we also
20:00
Speaker 5: there's multiple tax liens recorded. Those are kind of super leens,
20:04
Speaker 5: meaning you know, if you have same situation. Let's say
20:13
Speaker 5: Deale Cooper has borrowed money and you got a mortgage,
20:16
Speaker 5: but in the five years you had that mortgage making
20:19
Speaker 5: your payments, you've also incurred federal income tax liens that
20:22
Speaker 5: have been recorded or state income tax liens that have
20:25
Speaker 5: been recorded. If you go to borrow money to pay
20:31
Speaker 5: off your normal lender in that transaction, that new lender
20:37
Speaker 5: is gonna want all those other liens paid off because
20:39
Speaker 5: they don't want anybody to be in front of them
20:41
Speaker 5: as a lienholder, as a as a person that has
20:44
Speaker 5: a right to the property ahead of them. So that
20:48
Speaker 5: may be something that's I mean, they're gonna I think
20:51
Speaker 5: they're gonna have to borrow enough money or come up
20:55
Speaker 5: with enough money, not just to pay off this particular
20:57
Speaker 5: lender that filed a lawsuit, but other creditors they might
21:03
Speaker 5: have that of fileens. And the state in fact has
21:05
Speaker 5: moved to intervene in the case because State Tax Department,
21:12
Speaker 5: because they have significant interest in the property and getting
21:15
Speaker 5: paid for things like unpaid consumer sales tax, which is
21:19
Speaker 5: really bad because it was actually that's what when you
21:23
Speaker 5: go there. I went there a year and a half
21:27
Speaker 5: ago for actually the State bar annual meeting and seal
21:31
Speaker 5: my receipt there those sales I just paid five or
21:35
Speaker 5: six percent in sales taxes. I wonder if it's going
21:37
Speaker 5: to get where it's supposed to go. He is what
21:40
Speaker 5: I ask them, boy, how about you just give that
21:41
Speaker 5: back to me. I was sent it to the state myself.
21:44
Speaker 3: As a former small business owner. It's also the very
21:46
Speaker 3: first thing you learn how to do. It's like it's
21:48
Speaker 3: how the pay your taxes. It's the very first thing
21:51
Speaker 3: you learn.
21:51
Speaker 5: How to pay your tax and consumer sales tax.
21:53
Speaker 4: And when you have to separate that out there the
21:54
Speaker 4: first I.
21:55
Speaker 5: Mean, when you're collecting that and intentionally spending somewhere else,
22:00
Speaker 5: I mean, that's that's trust money. That's I mean, it's
22:03
Speaker 5: a they could be somebody could be charged with a
22:07
Speaker 5: crime for that. Uh if someone in state government prosecutor
22:15
Speaker 5: had the wherewithal to take that action, then I think
22:19
Speaker 5: recently one hundred percent sure, But I think recently there's
22:22
Speaker 5: been some leans filed regarding the failure to remit employees
22:29
Speaker 5: with holdings, which creates it's a whole nother problem. I
22:35
Speaker 5: don't know the details on that, so I don't want
22:37
Speaker 5: to be quite a direct but what I think I
22:41
Speaker 5: read was that there's leans out there. You know, obviously,
22:45
Speaker 5: when you get your paycheck, you got deductions for various
22:48
Speaker 5: with holdings, and at least some of those have not
22:52
Speaker 5: been remitted to the state or the Feds. I can't
22:56
Speaker 5: remember which one. So that's another. Now that's a little
22:59
Speaker 5: bit different because it doesn't mean they were I mean
23:03
Speaker 5: consumer sales tax the Greenberg actually got the money and
23:07
Speaker 5: didn't pass it along want to with holdings. I mean,
23:10
Speaker 5: if you're supposed to get paid X amount per hour,
23:15
Speaker 5: obviously you don't actually receive that amount. You receive a
23:17
Speaker 5: net amount after deductions. But sometimes that's money an employer
23:21
Speaker 5: just doesn't have, so they didn't collect it and not
23:24
Speaker 5: pay it. But it's part of the employees pay, so
23:27
Speaker 5: to speak. Because that then, of course jobs with your
23:32
Speaker 5: W two and your tax filing by the by the
23:37
Speaker 5: employee the following year, and I think generally that you'll
23:40
Speaker 5: still get your I mean the W two OTT to
23:43
Speaker 5: reflect the withholdings. But if the FEDS or the state
23:47
Speaker 5: government didn't actually receive the withholdings reflected on the W two.
23:51
Speaker 5: That can create problems for employees somewhere down the road. Yeah,
23:55
Speaker 5: get an alert well that you know you filed something
23:57
Speaker 5: saying that you know you are be paid X amount
24:01
Speaker 5: of taxes during the year, but we don't have evidence
24:03
Speaker 5: we actually received that money.
24:04
Speaker 4: Nut.
24:05
Speaker 5: I can tell you from experience with another client, that
24:09
Speaker 5: can take years and years to be discovered and really addressed,
24:15
Speaker 5: at least on the well I think both the federal
24:18
Speaker 5: and state level, because it takes a lot of coordination
24:20
Speaker 5: to figure out what's going on here. Obviously there's are
24:22
Speaker 5: massive programs the irs, but you know there's we'll see,
24:30
Speaker 5: we'll see. I just they're going to have to come
24:32
Speaker 5: up with I think a significant amount more than what
24:36
Speaker 5: they actually owe this lender. But this lender is the
24:39
Speaker 5: one that filed the lawsuit. So if they can come
24:41
Speaker 5: up before Judge Volk rules on the merits, the final
24:44
Speaker 5: ruling on this case, if they can come up with
24:47
Speaker 5: enough to pay a full payoff amount to what we'll
24:50
Speaker 5: call the omni creditor, then I think they have to
24:55
Speaker 5: accept that money the creditor does, and then that their
24:57
Speaker 5: issue would be moot. Wouldn't be an issue anymore, and
25:00
Speaker 5: you're just back to all the other creditors that are
25:03
Speaker 5: out there. And we also have another creditor that tried
25:05
Speaker 5: to intervene that arises from some case in Kentucky from
25:10
Speaker 5: maybe a decade ago, where there's a judgment rendered against
25:13
Speaker 5: at least members of the Greenbrier of the Justice family
25:17
Speaker 5: I think, and maybe one of the chief executives of
25:19
Speaker 5: the Greenbrier affiliated or the Justice affiliated entities. They've moved
25:24
Speaker 5: to intervene in the case. It's really going to be
25:29
Speaker 5: difficult for the Justice Entities to come up with sufficient funds,
25:34
Speaker 5: I think to pay all these creditors off. But what
25:36
Speaker 5: they might, they're obviously working on it. They have a
25:38
Speaker 5: plan to do it. I'm kind of honestly, I've been
25:41
Speaker 5: waiting to see if we're going to see a bankruptcy filing,
25:45
Speaker 5: and bankruptcy filing is pretty power. It would it would
25:49
Speaker 5: meet if they filed. If these entities file bankruptcy, of course,
25:54
Speaker 5: it requires a full disclosure of all debts and all
25:57
Speaker 5: assets if that happens, which may be one of the
25:58
Speaker 5: reasons it hasn't happened because normally with the type of
26:02
Speaker 5: creditors we're seeing here. Bankruptcy would have been a serious
26:06
Speaker 5: option looked at probably quite some time ago. But if
26:11
Speaker 5: it gets to that point we see a bankruptcy filing,
26:14
Speaker 5: then all this will start. There's what's called an automatic
26:16
Speaker 5: stay when someone files bankruptcy and all creditors at least
26:20
Speaker 5: temporarily have to stop trying to collect the debt and
26:23
Speaker 5: it goes into separate bankruptcy proceedings. So that's also an
26:28
Speaker 5: option here coming up. It doesn't mean they would get
26:31
Speaker 5: out of paying all the debt necessarily, but it certainly
26:33
Speaker 5: would stop this kind of emergency situation they're in right
26:39
Speaker 5: now with creditors.
26:42
Speaker 3: Let's go ahead and do this. Let's go ahead and
26:43
Speaker 3: take our break. We still have plenty more than we're
26:45
Speaker 3: going to talk about. Then kind of talk about the
26:46
Speaker 3: Greenbrier just a little bit, Tom, with an ego view
26:48
Speaker 3: of perspective there from the legal situation. Anything that you
26:51
Speaker 3: want to talk about this morning, though you're welcome to,
26:53
Speaker 3: gives a call in way in on and including anything
26:55
Speaker 3: that Tom's already talked about this morning gives the call
26:57
Speaker 3: threes or a four three four five fifty eight fifty
26:59
Speaker 3: eight three four five fifty eight. You can find out
27:01
Speaker 3: more about the Payton Law Firm online Peyton Lawfirm dot com.
27:03
Speaker 3: That's with an E P E Y T you in
27:06
Speaker 3: Payton Law Firm dot com. We'll take a break and
27:08
Speaker 3: be back right after this. You're listening to Ask the
27:10
Speaker 3: Lawyer with Tom Payton on five ADWCCHS the Voice of Charles.
27:13
Speaker 6: According to Feeding America, over seven million seniors nationwide where
27:17
Speaker 6: food insecure in twenty twenty two. West Virginia is no different. Hi,
27:21
Speaker 6: I'm Jason, President and CEO of Union Mission Ministries. For
27:24
Speaker 6: one hundred and thirteen years, Union Mission has focused on
27:27
Speaker 6: helping people in need. Right now, our senior citizens need
27:31
Speaker 6: our help. That is why Union Mission is partnering with
27:33
Speaker 6: local senior living facilities to get food delivered directly to
27:37
Speaker 6: those in need. Will you help us reach more seniors?
27:40
Speaker 6: Visit Union Mission dot com to learn more.
27:43
Speaker 7: Your Putnam County Assessor's Office is mandated to ensure your
27:46
Speaker 7: real estate is evaluated properly and fairly. This year, their
27:50
Speaker 7: field personnel will be in the Winfield town first and
27:54
Speaker 7: then move to Scott District to revisit homeowners plus new
27:58
Speaker 7: construction in the county will be assess they will be
28:01
Speaker 7: in marked vehicles and we'll have photo ID and business cards.
28:05
Speaker 4: If you have any questions.
28:06
Speaker 7: About this process, visit their website at Putnamcoassessor dot com.
28:10
Speaker 7: That's Putnamcoassessor dot com.
28:13
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28:17
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28:20
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28:47
Speaker 1: Now, let's check in on traffic from the five ad
28:49
Speaker 1: WCCHS studio.
28:54
Speaker 9: Good morning, here's your traffic update of pothole patching operation
28:57
Speaker 9: on I sixty four east of milemarker fifty two to
29:00
Speaker 9: mile marker fifty three at Dunbar debris and the roadway
29:03
Speaker 9: on I sixty four east at mile marker fifty at
29:06
Speaker 9: Institute A vehicle crash on County Route one fourteen over
29:10
Speaker 9: six Hillcrest Drive East and Crestmont Drive in Charleston, and
29:14
Speaker 9: congestion and delays on I sixty four east at mile
29:17
Speaker 9: marker fifty eight at Virginia Street. I'm chapel in the
29:20
Speaker 9: WCHS Network traffic studio.
29:38
Speaker 4: He's eleven minutes off the top of the hour.
29:40
Speaker 3: You're listening to, asked the lawyer with Tom Payton his
29:42
Speaker 3: hair in studio one five at ewch's Voice at Charleston. Here,
29:45
Speaker 3: welcome away in on the conversation this morning. It us
29:47
Speaker 3: a call this morning. Fund lines are open at three
29:49
Speaker 3: zero four three four five fifty eight fifty eight three
29:51
Speaker 3: four five fifty eight fifty eight. If you want to
29:52
Speaker 3: put the law on your side with a Payton law firm,
29:55
Speaker 3: you can also, of course send in a text message
29:57
Speaker 3: this morning three zero four non three five five zers
29:58
Speaker 3: you're eight. I got that in front of your right now.
30:00
Speaker 3: If you have any questions for Tom Payton and the
30:02
Speaker 3: via the text line number three or four non three
30:03
Speaker 3: five five zero zero eight.
30:05
Speaker 4: Yeah.
30:06
Speaker 5: If you want to call us at the office, our
30:08
Speaker 5: number there's three oh four seven five five five five
30:11
Speaker 5: five six. Then you can go to our website, send
30:14
Speaker 5: us an email. We try and respond the same day.
30:16
Speaker 5: It's non answering service, or a call center comes actually
30:20
Speaker 5: to Dad and ize personal email addresses, and we we
30:25
Speaker 5: try and respond, and we we if you leave a voicemail,
30:29
Speaker 5: actually you can leave a We have voice over Internet
30:33
Speaker 5: provided phones, so if you leave a voicemail, it actually
30:35
Speaker 5: sends an electronic voice file to our through our emails,
30:39
Speaker 5: which we can if you do have an emergency, we
30:42
Speaker 5: other when we're sleeping. We check that generally twenty four
30:44
Speaker 5: hours a day. So yeah, I've been talking about the
30:47
Speaker 5: Green Brow which is interesting, but maybe a little bit
30:51
Speaker 5: about what we do at our office. Mostly, of course,
30:54
Speaker 5: we're we're kind of a consumer oriented law firm, meaning
30:57
Speaker 5: we generally represent everyday people small do some small business
31:01
Speaker 5: work for sure, state planning, deed work, some criminal defense,
31:08
Speaker 5: just trying to help people with things that they need
31:10
Speaker 5: on a daily basis. But what we really like to
31:13
Speaker 5: do and probably are bread and butter, is trial work.
31:16
Speaker 5: On the plane of side meeting. We represent regular people
31:19
Speaker 5: normally on contingency fee, where you don't pay us unless
31:21
Speaker 5: we prevail if they've been hurt in some way, A
31:24
Speaker 5: lot of automobile accident case. There's a lot of insurance disputes,
31:27
Speaker 5: which is essentially what an automobile accident case normally is.
31:30
Speaker 5: You rarely deal directly with the person. If somebody hits
31:33
Speaker 5: you and injures you and it's their fault, you're actually
31:37
Speaker 5: have very little, if any dealings with the person who
31:39
Speaker 5: calls the accident You're you're dealing with their insurance company.
31:42
Speaker 5: And so if you have an insurance dispute of any kind,
31:47
Speaker 5: certainly reach out to us, and we never all those
31:51
Speaker 5: cases we take on contingency fee where we don't get
31:54
Speaker 5: paid unless we prevail, And on any issue you have
31:58
Speaker 5: your initial contact and can unication with us, We'll always
32:01
Speaker 5: be treated as an initial consultation, which we don't charge for,
32:05
Speaker 5: so uh never. You know, it's hard for me to
32:08
Speaker 5: back out and see it because I grew up with
32:11
Speaker 5: you know, with my dad being a trial lawyer in
32:13
Speaker 5: practicing law full time and then me doing it for
32:16
Speaker 5: twenty five years now, so it's hard to go back
32:18
Speaker 5: and think about what it would be like not knowing,
32:22
Speaker 5: you know, getting in a situation and not knowing the
32:24
Speaker 5: law at all, and that would be uncomfortable for me
32:27
Speaker 5: in a lot of aspects. So if you feel like
32:29
Speaker 5: that and you're in a situation, don't hesitate to send
32:32
Speaker 5: us an email or give us a call. Usually we
32:33
Speaker 5: can spend you know, a few minutes on the phone
32:36
Speaker 5: with you, and sometimes it's just some information you need
32:38
Speaker 5: and then you can take care of the matter yourself.
32:42
Speaker 2: Well.
32:42
Speaker 5: Also do a decent amount. We don't have thousands of
32:45
Speaker 5: them because I'm fairly selective on the ones I take,
32:48
Speaker 5: but we do a decent amount of SO security disability.
32:50
Speaker 5: I actually I have a hearing this morning. I think
32:54
Speaker 5: the judge is actually in Maryland for this SOCH Scurity
32:57
Speaker 5: Disability hearing, and we're doing it by phone, pretty much
33:00
Speaker 5: all by phone with so security. Now they're doing starting
33:03
Speaker 5: to do some finally via zoom or teams or where
33:09
Speaker 5: they can actually see the claim, and me obviously through
33:12
Speaker 5: a computer, which I don't like, as well as being
33:17
Speaker 5: live in person because most of my clients, or maybe
33:22
Speaker 5: all of them are have meritorious cases and I think
33:25
Speaker 5: ultimately what the judge is trying to do is see
33:27
Speaker 5: whether can this person really perform full time work or not,
33:31
Speaker 5: And I think sizing a person up in person is
33:33
Speaker 5: much more meaningful than certainly a phone phone testimony or
33:39
Speaker 5: seeing them through the computer. But that's just they're backlogged
33:42
Speaker 5: and that's the way it goes. So, for example, the
33:45
Speaker 5: client I have today, this person has been unable to
33:50
Speaker 5: work since September twenty twenty three, and we're just now
33:54
Speaker 5: getting hearing, you know, close to three years later, which
33:59
Speaker 5: is why if you think you have a mental or
34:04
Speaker 5: physical issue that's going to keep you off work for
34:07
Speaker 5: twelve months or longer, I would really encourage folks to
34:12
Speaker 5: go out and file their application for SOBI security disability
34:16
Speaker 5: with the SOB Security Administration. I believe they're doing most
34:19
Speaker 5: of them by phone. You can still go in person,
34:23
Speaker 5: but that application there's nothing really tricky about it. If
34:28
Speaker 5: there's some kind of air in the process, that can
34:30
Speaker 5: be amended later by us. But you're usually just giving
34:34
Speaker 5: some basic information to the SOB Security Administration what your
34:37
Speaker 5: problems are, why you can't work, when you last worked,
34:41
Speaker 5: and just your kind of normal personal data, where you live,
34:44
Speaker 5: you know, basics like that, and that's the application and
34:47
Speaker 5: then oh, it usually takes some thirty to ninety days
34:51
Speaker 5: unless there's something complicated to make the initial decision and
34:54
Speaker 5: I'll tell you that in my experience, probably ninety nine
34:58
Speaker 5: percent of applications are denied off the bat unless I
35:03
Speaker 5: mean then once you get denied, that's when you need
35:08
Speaker 5: to give us a call or the lawyer of your choice,
35:13
Speaker 5: and then we take over from there. But then there's
35:14
Speaker 5: a continued You don't just automatically get a hearing. You
35:17
Speaker 5: have to ask for a reconsideration of the initial denial,
35:20
Speaker 5: and then when that's denied, which it is most of
35:23
Speaker 5: the time again, then you get your chance to request
35:27
Speaker 5: a hearing. And then from the time you request it, it
35:29
Speaker 5: might take a year more to get a hearing, but
35:32
Speaker 5: it's important a lot of times once you get that
35:36
Speaker 5: first denial after your application of good and get in
35:38
Speaker 5: contact with a lawyer because getting the documents that need
35:44
Speaker 5: to be in the file in the so security file
35:47
Speaker 5: prior to the hearing is extremely important. And I would
35:53
Speaker 5: strongly encourage folks to get lawyers and not try and
35:56
Speaker 5: represent themselves at the hearing because once you do that,
35:59
Speaker 5: you generally get one bite at the apple. So you
36:02
Speaker 5: can't well, I lost that hearing, Now we'll get a lawyer. Well,
36:05
Speaker 5: it's you can't just go back and relitigate your case.
36:08
Speaker 5: You've had your shot at it, and there are exceptions,
36:12
Speaker 5: but normally you don't just go back and get to
36:14
Speaker 5: re argue. And our office, i think probably universally all
36:21
Speaker 5: lawyers that handle SISCO disability cases, those are contingency fee
36:25
Speaker 5: as well. So if you have a claim and you
36:29
Speaker 5: have you know, you have it screened by an attorney
36:32
Speaker 5: and for example US, and we're willing to take it.
36:36
Speaker 5: If the case goes bad and we don't win your claim,
36:38
Speaker 5: you don't pass anything. So which is so there's really
36:42
Speaker 5: no now you do if they if the lawyer wins
36:45
Speaker 5: the case, or if you win your claim and you
36:46
Speaker 5: have an attorney, they do get paid a percent. It's
36:49
Speaker 5: twenty five percent of only your back pay, so you're
36:51
Speaker 5: not going to lose your monthly payments going forward. Do
36:55
Speaker 5: not have an attorney fee taken out of it. There's
36:57
Speaker 5: a twenty five percent deduct by the Security Administration when
37:01
Speaker 5: you get your award only from what from your back pay,
37:05
Speaker 5: And in that twenty five percent is also capped at
37:07
Speaker 5: a certain amount, So it's twenty five percent or a
37:10
Speaker 5: maximum of X Let's say, uh, it's twenty five percent
37:14
Speaker 5: more than that it's less than that. But well, these
37:16
Speaker 5: these hearings are claims are extremely important. I mean the
37:20
Speaker 5: person I'm talking about that I have the hearing for today,
37:24
Speaker 5: this person has not worked in three years and has
37:28
Speaker 5: had no source of income for three years. So if
37:35
Speaker 5: if he, if this person prevails in their claim, then
37:39
Speaker 5: they're going to get back pay. There's a little it's technical,
37:44
Speaker 5: it won't be the full three years, but you know,
37:46
Speaker 5: all those months of back pay will be coming in.
37:48
Speaker 5: And if if this claimant doesn't win then or just
37:53
Speaker 5: I mean they I believe my client that this person
37:57
Speaker 5: cannot work, so they're going to continue to carrying on
38:01
Speaker 5: the best they can with zero income. So you know,
38:05
Speaker 5: you don't get jury trials, you get a hearing before
38:08
Speaker 5: an administrative law judge. But those claims are extremely important
38:13
Speaker 5: to the clients and it's important you give them close
38:16
Speaker 5: attention and they don't just become a number for the lawyer,
38:21
Speaker 5: and they certainly don't at our office. But maybe more important,
38:29
Speaker 5: I just don't know why folks, if they're aware of
38:31
Speaker 5: how it works where you don't have to pay a
38:33
Speaker 5: lawyer or retainer or any money up front secure counsel
38:37
Speaker 5: for your so scared disability claims. Yeah, out of time, yeah, but.
38:40
Speaker 4: Out of time there.
38:41
Speaker 3: And I also wanted to just drop in here because
38:43
Speaker 3: so many people are doing it. The AI lawyers are
38:45
Speaker 3: not going to help you out here at all. Maybe
38:47
Speaker 3: not as big in this area yet, but I've been
38:49
Speaker 3: reading more and more about people trying to use this
38:50
Speaker 3: for situations like that.
38:51
Speaker 4: Not a great idea, No, that.
38:53
Speaker 5: Will AI see legal opinions from AIS all the time
38:58
Speaker 5: and they're wrong about half the time. Gives you kind
39:01
Speaker 5: of a broad view of the process.
39:03
Speaker 4: That's it.
39:03
Speaker 5: It's not a substitute for a real lawyer for sure.
39:05
Speaker 4: Peyton Lawfirm dot com, p E Y t O inn
39:07
Speaker 4: Peyton Law from dot com seven five five fifty five
39:10
Speaker 4: fifty six seven five five fifty five fifty.
39:12
Speaker 3: Six in Nitro, West Virginia, serving you at three zero
39:14
Speaker 3: four seven five five fifty five fifty six.
39:16
Speaker 4: Tom, we'll see you back here next week.
39:18
Speaker 5: Well, I'll be in the Grand Canyon. We'll see Harvey
39:20
Speaker 5: back here next Hopefully you'll see me in the week
39:22
Speaker 5: after if I make it.
39:23
Speaker 3: That sounds good, Yeah, I can talk with it. Tom
39:25
Speaker 3: Payton from the Payton Law Firm. Peyton Lawfirm dot com.
39:27
Speaker 3: Have a great day. Everyone listening to your voice of Charleston.
39:29
Speaker 3: We are five adwchs