Latest / Learned the Hard Way with Kier Gaines / EP 19: You Can't Fix People You Love

Transcript

EP 19: You Can't Fix People You Love · Learned the Hard Way with Kier Gaines

0:06
Speaker 1: Welcome to Learn the hard Way. My name is Kid Gaines.
0:09
Speaker 1: We talk about purpose, we talk about pressure, and we
0:12
Speaker 1: talk about what it actually takes become a full comprehensive man. Hey,
0:16
Speaker 1: what's up, y'all. Welcome back to another episode of Learn
0:19
Speaker 1: the hard Way. My name is Kid Gaines. I am
0:21
Speaker 1: your host. I'm also your favorite therapist. I'm a husband,
0:25
Speaker 1: I'm a father, I'm a business owner, I'm a content creator,
0:28
Speaker 1: and I'm a person who loves to get to the
0:30
Speaker 1: bottom of some stuff. You know what I'm saying. We
0:34
Speaker 1: live in a world that's full of problems and full
0:37
Speaker 1: of people who have problems, and one of the best
0:41
Speaker 1: things I think that we can do is to collectively
0:45
Speaker 1: listen to what's going on with other people, think about
0:49
Speaker 1: kind of reflect on how it applies to our lives
0:52
Speaker 1: and our situations, and then do some real introspective work
0:56
Speaker 1: into what we can change or what we can do
0:58
Speaker 1: differently possible. While we're here today, shout out to everybody
1:02
Speaker 1: who listened to the last Mailbag episode. I listened to
1:05
Speaker 1: it back. I was in Brooklyn with my wife. She
1:07
Speaker 1: had a speaking event, and I went out to go
1:09
Speaker 1: and get me some bagels and some coffee while she
1:12
Speaker 1: was getting her makeup done, and I listened back to
1:13
Speaker 1: the mailbag episode and I really enjoyed answering you asked questions.
1:18
Speaker 1: I enjoyed what that interaction sounded like. So thank y'all.
1:20
Speaker 1: Thank y'all for trusting me with this information. Because this
1:24
Speaker 1: is sensitive and it's private, but you're putting it out
1:27
Speaker 1: there not just to get some advice and not just
1:29
Speaker 1: to get some assistance, But this is a learning tool
1:32
Speaker 1: for everybody in the world who may be listening to
1:35
Speaker 1: this going through something different, going through something similar, rather
1:38
Speaker 1: or perhaps about to go through something similar. Well, with
1:43
Speaker 1: my mask face said, it's only three stages of life.
1:47
Speaker 1: You headed into the storm, you in the store, Well
1:51
Speaker 1: you're heading out of the store. And boy boy, was
1:54
Speaker 1: that bars. So today I have about four or five
1:59
Speaker 1: questions I wanted to do. These are from listeners of
2:01
Speaker 1: the Learned the Hard Way podcast.
2:03
Speaker 2: And.
2:05
Speaker 1: These are some This is gonna be a good show, man.
2:08
Speaker 1: These are some serious, deep and uh thoughtful questions that
2:14
Speaker 1: were asked, and I'm gonna do my best to give
2:16
Speaker 1: you some serious, deep and thoughtful answers. I'm gonna remind
2:20
Speaker 1: you all that even though I am a therapist. I
2:22
Speaker 1: am not your therapist, and this is not therapy. It
2:26
Speaker 1: can't replace therapy, it can't supplant therapy. This is just
2:30
Speaker 1: me listening to the things that you're telling me and
2:32
Speaker 1: giving you the things that are immediately on my mind.
2:35
Speaker 1: All right, this is this isn't a session, This is
2:38
Speaker 1: not clinical advice. I highly suggest that you go on
2:41
Speaker 1: book a session with the licensed mental health professionals, qualified
2:45
Speaker 1: and capable. But I do think that this can be
2:48
Speaker 1: of aid to somebody out there. So we're no further ado.
2:53
Speaker 1: I'm finna listen to you. So if you if you,
2:57
Speaker 1: that's bars, but we won't got to do that. That
2:59
Speaker 1: was That was clever caller. You gotta clip that one
3:01
Speaker 1: that that was good that Ryan. Seriously though, I enjoy
3:06
Speaker 1: this very very very much, And before we even get started,
3:11
Speaker 1: I want you to just take well, you're not gonna
3:14
Speaker 1: stop the episode and go and leave me a message
3:17
Speaker 1: right now that that doesn't make any sense. But after
3:20
Speaker 1: the podcast, I want you to go to learn the
3:22
Speaker 1: hardwaypod dot com. If any questions spark up up in
3:26
Speaker 1: your mind, if you have any aha moments, something you
3:29
Speaker 1: stumbled upon, something that you just it's been flowing around
3:33
Speaker 1: in your mind, and you just need a second opinion
3:35
Speaker 1: on bringing on over, Bring it on Over, Learn the
3:37
Speaker 1: hardwaypod dot com. Leave me a voice message and I
3:41
Speaker 1: will answer your question here on the pod. Now, I
3:44
Speaker 1: want to play the first message. We're gonna listen to it,
3:49
Speaker 1: and then we am gonna give you my immediate thoughts
3:53
Speaker 1: and reactions. So here we go. What's going on? Team on?
3:57
Speaker 2: Me and my wife will be married three years come
4:01
Speaker 2: this December, and we have had a really rough patch.
4:08
Speaker 1: In those three years.
4:09
Speaker 3: We've had another baby, she's got a new job, she's
4:12
Speaker 3: opened up a new clinic, and she has too much
4:17
Speaker 3: on her plate, and she's got to the point where
4:23
Speaker 3: nobody's filling up her cup and she's tired of filling
4:25
Speaker 3: up everybody else's. She's conveyed to me numerous occasions that
4:33
Speaker 3: she's tired of leading, she's tired of making decisions, and.
4:38
Speaker 1: She's done with it. And once she's told me.
4:42
Speaker 2: That I have put my pride to a side, and
4:45
Speaker 2: I've put myself to a side to start leading more,
4:49
Speaker 2: to start trying to take things off of her play
4:51
Speaker 2: instead of acting, just doing. And she's in therapy herself,
4:56
Speaker 2: and so and she's also depressed, and so I just
5:01
Speaker 2: want to know what it looks like to continue to
5:06
Speaker 2: do something even if I don't feeling it's being received right.
5:11
Speaker 2: I don't know if I should stop because I'm not
5:13
Speaker 2: getting the instant gratification, but I'm not looking for that.
5:18
Speaker 3: I just want to make sure everything is right.
5:21
Speaker 2: So I don't know if I continue to do that
5:23
Speaker 2: or if I just let things.
5:26
Speaker 1: Be very very very nuanced situation there, Oh, where do
5:38
Speaker 1: I start? Okay, So a few things, because I put
5:41
Speaker 1: put some notes down so I could keep track of
5:44
Speaker 1: what you were saying. So, first off, shout out to
5:48
Speaker 1: you for even asking this question. I think it'll be
5:53
Speaker 1: very easy to just assume whatever you're doing, whatever you're
5:58
Speaker 1: trying to do, will just be an enough by virtue
6:01
Speaker 1: of you trying, and you could just easily rest on that.
6:04
Speaker 1: But instead you're saying, I don't know. I don't know
6:08
Speaker 1: if what i'm doing this is kind of what I heard.
6:11
Speaker 1: You know, I'm not not getting feedback that what I'm
6:14
Speaker 1: doing is necessarily effective. I don't know if I should
6:17
Speaker 1: keep trying instead of quiet quitting to ask questions for
6:21
Speaker 1: guidance takes a lot, so shout out to you for
6:22
Speaker 1: that takes courage to admit that I don't I don't
6:25
Speaker 1: really know what to do, especially as a man. I
6:28
Speaker 1: think the easy response would be to say, hey, man,
6:31
Speaker 1: just lead or just do something. But I don't always
6:37
Speaker 1: find that to be effective when I'm counseling couples, because
6:42
Speaker 1: leadership is a is a broad word, and I always
6:46
Speaker 1: say leading who in what direction? Motivated by what? And
6:52
Speaker 1: to what means like to what end. The first thing
6:57
Speaker 1: that popped out to me when you were talking is
6:59
Speaker 1: you before I answer your question, a few things just
7:03
Speaker 1: just just popped out to me. Been with me for
7:05
Speaker 1: a second while I work through this. You mentioned that
7:09
Speaker 1: you're not looking for instant gratification, and that that struck
7:14
Speaker 1: me as remarkable, because what if you were. What if
7:21
Speaker 1: you are looking for gratification in some way. Let's take
7:24
Speaker 1: the let's destigmatized gratification for a second. Let's take gratification
7:29
Speaker 1: away from being this childish need for approval or praise
7:36
Speaker 1: or for you to be clapped out of the building
7:39
Speaker 1: for doing what you're supposed to do. Let's let's take
7:41
Speaker 1: it away from that definition, and let's move gratification closer
7:46
Speaker 1: toward the idea of satisfaction or the idea of there
7:50
Speaker 1: being proof that the things that you were doing, the
7:54
Speaker 1: effort that you're making, the things that you may be sacrificing,
7:57
Speaker 1: the energy that you're that you're burning, energy that you're
8:02
Speaker 1: putting forth, goes to something. And I can't imagine a world,
8:06
Speaker 1: you being a man or a woman, where if your
8:09
Speaker 1: energy is going to something that you feel is meaningful
8:12
Speaker 1: and it's not changing anything, but it's taking a lot
8:14
Speaker 1: out of you. I can't imagine where a world where
8:19
Speaker 1: where that gratification isn't the thing that helps keep you going.
8:23
Speaker 1: You know, at the very end, you kind of ask
8:26
Speaker 1: me whether or not you should just stop. And I
8:31
Speaker 1: can't help but to think if there was something in
8:34
Speaker 1: this interaction that made you feel like your effort was
8:37
Speaker 1: going towards something, whether you would even ask that question. Now,
8:41
Speaker 1: that's not to say it's her duty to make you
8:43
Speaker 1: feel like your effort is going towards something, but you're
8:46
Speaker 1: also These ain't internet gender wars and talking points. This
8:50
Speaker 1: is a marriage, and a marriage is different than anything
8:52
Speaker 1: you read on social media about the way that men
8:55
Speaker 1: and women interact with each other. Ideally, especially in a
8:58
Speaker 1: healthy marriage. A lot of the tropes, a lot of
9:01
Speaker 1: the like the constant conversations don't always apply directly on
9:09
Speaker 1: and I don't think it's unreasonable for somebody to want gratification,
9:13
Speaker 1: because again, gratification isn't always praised. Sometimes it's a receipt
9:17
Speaker 1: that says, hey, you know, this thing that you're doing
9:19
Speaker 1: is helping, or hey, I notice the things that you're doing.
9:23
Speaker 1: I just want to take a moment to tell you that,
9:25
Speaker 1: or you know, I feel like we're really moving in
9:28
Speaker 1: the right direction. However, you use the D word and
9:32
Speaker 1: you said that the person that your partner is depressed.
9:37
Speaker 1: That changes everything. I also noticed that you said y'all
9:42
Speaker 1: had another baby, which tells me that you have a
9:46
Speaker 1: wife who is postpartum. That changes everything. You also when
9:52
Speaker 1: you said another baby, insinuations that y'all had one before.
9:56
Speaker 1: That changes everything because the jump from one kid the
10:00
Speaker 1: two kids, in my mind, is just as crazy as
10:02
Speaker 1: to jump from zero kids the one kids. It takes
10:07
Speaker 1: a lot out of the entire family unit. And sometimes
10:11
Speaker 1: what we don't always do a good job of as couples.
10:14
Speaker 1: And this ain't calling y'all out because this apply to
10:16
Speaker 1: men know amy too. It's calling you in. We don't
10:19
Speaker 1: always do a good job of changing how our relationships
10:22
Speaker 1: are systematized. Sometimes when she the same system that you
10:26
Speaker 1: all function under was the same system, but when she
10:28
Speaker 1: got pregnant, the same system when the baby comes, and
10:31
Speaker 1: the same system two years after the baby's walking around
10:34
Speaker 1: and grabbing stuff off of the furniture and you know,
10:37
Speaker 1: falling off the couch and doing all types of baby stuff,
10:40
Speaker 1: And it's the same system when you have to and
10:42
Speaker 1: that doesn't work that those structures require a lot of
10:45
Speaker 1: tweaking that we don't really have time for. Another thing
10:48
Speaker 1: you said to point it out to me is that
10:49
Speaker 1: she opened the clinic, which means not only does she
10:52
Speaker 1: have another job, she's probably in a leadership position. And
10:56
Speaker 1: when I add all of those things together, it makes
10:59
Speaker 1: perfect sense why she would come and say I'm tired
11:01
Speaker 1: of making decisions, because it sounds like she has what
11:04
Speaker 1: we call decision fatigue. Decision fatigue is when you have
11:09
Speaker 1: to make so many little decisions so often that it
11:13
Speaker 1: just it exhausts you to even think of small things
11:15
Speaker 1: like what am I going to eat for dinner? You
11:17
Speaker 1: just don't have the gas in your brain to get
11:20
Speaker 1: across that finish line. And then when you have a partner,
11:23
Speaker 1: you also have the duty of being a good partner,
11:25
Speaker 1: which is another job. It's another thing for her to
11:29
Speaker 1: have to do. Now, I want you to kind of
11:33
Speaker 1: ask yourself in this scenario, because you said, I wonder
11:38
Speaker 1: if I should stop or not, And I can't answer
11:40
Speaker 1: that question for you, big bro. That's something you gotta
11:43
Speaker 1: ask yourself. And since you said a team already know you,
11:45
Speaker 1: my frat brother, bruh, if your efforts, if the things
11:52
Speaker 1: you were doing were actually working right and it would
11:56
Speaker 1: pull I don't know. I don't know what your goal is.
11:59
Speaker 1: I don't know if your goal is to make life
12:00
Speaker 1: easier for her. I don't know if your goal is
12:02
Speaker 1: to have more efficient family systems. I don't know what
12:06
Speaker 1: you want to do here. But if your efforts were working,
12:10
Speaker 1: what would you ideally like to see? What is it
12:14
Speaker 1: that you would be looking for. Are you looking for
12:16
Speaker 1: a change in her affect, which is the way her like,
12:21
Speaker 1: just her facial disposition, her going from maybe blank face
12:24
Speaker 1: to maybe smiling more. Is that something that would register
12:28
Speaker 1: that what you're doing is effective. Would you be looking
12:32
Speaker 1: for maybe a change in her overall mood. Would you
12:36
Speaker 1: be looking for less tension in the house. Would you
12:40
Speaker 1: be looking for her to mention the things that she
12:42
Speaker 1: needs you to do less frequently? Would you mention? Would
12:46
Speaker 1: you be oh? Would you be looking for her to
12:48
Speaker 1: make a complete one eighty and just have a different disposition.
12:53
Speaker 1: What would that success look like? Let's would it be
12:55
Speaker 1: more affection, fewer arguments, her, looking less overwhelmed the communication?
13:01
Speaker 1: I think establishing what better looks like it's a good
13:05
Speaker 1: first step, man, because or else you're working toward a
13:07
Speaker 1: goal that has no end. You know what I'm saying.
13:10
Speaker 1: It's like I don't know if you ever filled up
13:11
Speaker 1: a kitty swimming pool before, but you can see the
13:13
Speaker 1: bottom of a kitty swimming pool. It always takes some
13:16
Speaker 1: inflatable pools, It always takes you way more time to
13:19
Speaker 1: fill them joints up than you think it would. But like,
13:23
Speaker 1: if you can't see the bottom and you're continuing to
13:25
Speaker 1: pour water into it and you don't see any progress,
13:27
Speaker 1: I think that leaves you in a tough position.
13:31
Speaker 3: Now.
13:31
Speaker 1: I want to go back and talk about the depression
13:33
Speaker 1: piece for a little bit, because depression is tricky and
13:37
Speaker 1: I don't know what kind of depression. Your wife may
13:39
Speaker 1: be experiencing, but depression isn't It's often like the way
13:45
Speaker 1: you're characterizing it, it's not acute. It's not something that
13:49
Speaker 1: happens and then it goes away in a couple of
13:51
Speaker 1: weeks and then that's just it. This is a lifelong battle.
13:56
Speaker 1: So my other question comes to what changes are you
14:00
Speaker 1: looking for, because it sounds if you're talking about leadership
14:03
Speaker 1: and taking on a different role and taking on like
14:07
Speaker 1: taking the helm for two people's challenges. I'm gonna tell you,
14:12
Speaker 1: I don't know if that's a good long term solution
14:14
Speaker 1: for you. Bro That that's gonna be a lot to
14:17
Speaker 1: do over a long period of time. So where's your
14:20
Speaker 1: mind focused? Are you focused on what can be done now?
14:23
Speaker 1: Do you have like, oh, I'm going to set a
14:25
Speaker 1: plan to just lighten the load for the next three
14:29
Speaker 1: months or is this your permanent position now? And if so,
14:32
Speaker 1: what where does she fit in? Because being a leader
14:35
Speaker 1: doesn't make you and as I'm sure you know, it
14:38
Speaker 1: doesn't make you the unilateral decision maker. It just makes
14:41
Speaker 1: you the person sometimes who thought of the thing first,
14:45
Speaker 1: or who is initializing the thing, or who is pushing
14:48
Speaker 1: the thing forward. But you still need the thoughts and
14:51
Speaker 1: opinions of your partner. Is she in a place where
14:55
Speaker 1: she's not willing to do that? I just I don't
14:59
Speaker 1: have enough inform to know what's driving her depression, but
15:04
Speaker 1: I do know that household task, like a lot of
15:09
Speaker 1: times when we talk about this, when we talk about
15:11
Speaker 1: bills and laundry and calendar and groceries, even with the
15:14
Speaker 1: decision fatigue, even with depression, it's impossible to take your
15:18
Speaker 1: hand off of the wheel of decision making all together.
15:23
Speaker 1: So then my next question is, how are you all
15:26
Speaker 1: talking about what this ultimately looks like for your relationship?
15:30
Speaker 1: If you're talking about what this looks like for your relationship,
15:34
Speaker 1: because leadership isn't always especially in this frame, I get
15:38
Speaker 1: a little concern because leadership isn't always the right goal,
15:41
Speaker 1: even though it seems that way, And a part of
15:44
Speaker 1: me is wondering the more I'm talking about it, whether
15:47
Speaker 1: leadership is the right framing of this, because leadership still
15:52
Speaker 1: centers one person in the decision making, and it kind
15:57
Speaker 1: of sounds like, well, she's talking about his support, and
16:02
Speaker 1: a part of me can't help but wonder if those
16:05
Speaker 1: two things are kind of be emerged to both of
16:07
Speaker 1: your detriment, because if she's looking for support, I think
16:12
Speaker 1: that's a different thing. It goes from how can I
16:15
Speaker 1: make these decisions for my family to how do I
16:19
Speaker 1: reduce the load that she's carrying? Or even for you?
16:23
Speaker 1: Even for you, it can go from how do I
16:25
Speaker 1: reduce the load that she's carrying to how do I
16:28
Speaker 1: identify what part of this load is mine to bear
16:31
Speaker 1: and what part of this is her journey to try
16:33
Speaker 1: to traverse because it will be very easy for us
16:37
Speaker 1: to kind of look at this overall and say, I'm
16:40
Speaker 1: gonna take it on, baby, I'm gonna take on your stuff,
16:42
Speaker 1: I'm gonna take on my stuff, I'm gonna take on
16:43
Speaker 1: the world, and I'm gonna do this for our family.
16:45
Speaker 1: And we don't account for our own personal fatigue. And
16:48
Speaker 1: if you can't be there for yourself, you're not gonna
16:52
Speaker 1: be able to be there for her and your kids.
16:55
Speaker 1: So when people come into couple's counseling, I think a
17:00
Speaker 1: lot of couples think there's only one right answer, and
17:02
Speaker 1: I never believe that. I think there's a multi suit
17:04
Speaker 1: of answers depending on your personalities and individual stress. But
17:10
Speaker 1: I kind of separated in the three parts, what's best
17:13
Speaker 1: for you, what's best for her, and what's best for
17:17
Speaker 1: the collective. Because a healthy relationship, at least in my mind,
17:23
Speaker 1: it ain't always built around like winning your perspective, you
17:29
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. It's more so built around protecting
17:32
Speaker 1: the collective. And it's hard to know down the road
17:37
Speaker 1: what that's going to lead to or what that means.
17:41
Speaker 1: So I think it'd be a really good idea to
17:42
Speaker 1: kind of like chalk this up into short bits, maybe
17:45
Speaker 1: over the next three months, what's the plan, what's the plan?
17:51
Speaker 1: And also get an idea, not asking her like what
17:54
Speaker 1: what do you want me to do, but get an
17:57
Speaker 1: idea and hear me out. Get that idea of what
18:01
Speaker 1: it is she's actually going through in the moment, like
18:03
Speaker 1: what she's thinking, what she's feeling. And I'm sure you
18:05
Speaker 1: already do this to some extent, but just the little
18:09
Speaker 1: check ins, man, hey babe, just popping in real quick,
18:12
Speaker 1: seeing how your week been going, seeing how your day
18:14
Speaker 1: been going. And when you married, the marriage becomes its
18:17
Speaker 1: own company. It's so much stuff going on. The kids
18:20
Speaker 1: are one thing, and she's one thing, and you're one thing,
18:23
Speaker 1: and then there's the bills, and then there's the money conversation,
18:26
Speaker 1: and it's long term planning, and it's her family and
18:29
Speaker 1: your family. Then it's scheduling childcare. And if you got
18:32
Speaker 1: a young kid, I don't know if she's breastfeeding or that.
18:34
Speaker 1: I don't know. If y'all buy a formula, you're going
18:36
Speaker 1: to the thing. Who does what? Who changes baby? Who's
18:38
Speaker 1: up all night? It's an endless list of logistics, and
18:43
Speaker 1: somewhere in there the two of you all get lost,
18:47
Speaker 1: and those little moments of brief connection just to find
18:51
Speaker 1: out where she is. What's been on your mind this week, babe,
18:55
Speaker 1: what you've been struggling with this week, babe, or even
18:58
Speaker 1: man like, get it to the point where it's more positive.
19:01
Speaker 1: What's a win you had this week? And I know
19:04
Speaker 1: that sounds like it sounds so fundamental therapist mumbo jumbo bullshit.
19:10
Speaker 1: But what it allows you all to do is not
19:12
Speaker 1: go too many times, too much time with the logistics
19:16
Speaker 1: part of the relationship, and not enough time on the
19:18
Speaker 1: feelings part of the relationship. And most importantly, man, when
19:22
Speaker 1: you said should I should, I like, stop that, man,
19:29
Speaker 1: don't quit too early. Man, you know what I'm saying.
19:31
Speaker 1: If My question to you is if you stop trying today,
19:35
Speaker 1: does that move your relationship closer or further away from
19:40
Speaker 1: the ultimate goal? With men, sometimes men do this, we
19:44
Speaker 1: do this self sacrifice, self abnegation thing where we're like
19:48
Speaker 1: Kamakazi pilots, like we're gonna fly playing into the ship
19:51
Speaker 1: and it's like, yeah, bro, you ding the ship. But
19:54
Speaker 1: what now? And what I want you to also think
19:57
Speaker 1: about in this entire scenario is how to get support
20:00
Speaker 1: for yourself. And I'm gonna wrap this up because it's
20:03
Speaker 1: getting lengthy. I told y'all these get lengthy. It happens,
20:06
Speaker 1: but this is very nuanced. You know, when I worked
20:08
Speaker 1: in disability services, I remember I was working for in
20:12
Speaker 1: a classroom with kids with a lot of challenges just
20:16
Speaker 1: around autism spectrum disorder, like a lot of them were
20:19
Speaker 1: not verbal. And I think when we think about, especially
20:23
Speaker 1: kids with disabilities or disabling conditions, we think about how
20:26
Speaker 1: hard it is for the kid, and we don't always
20:29
Speaker 1: think about how hard it is for the caretakers. And
20:33
Speaker 1: you get in a room with all those parents with
20:36
Speaker 1: the kids with the profound challenges, all of these challenges,
20:40
Speaker 1: and it's you look at the parents and they're doing
20:42
Speaker 1: an amazing job, but they tired. Man, they're tired because
20:47
Speaker 1: taking care of somebody who's going through those type of
20:49
Speaker 1: challenges is exhausting. And they may not say it out loud,
20:53
Speaker 1: but it be their truth. And when you're taking care
20:55
Speaker 1: of somebody who's going through all those challenges, it is exhausting,
21:00
Speaker 1: may be your truth. So I want you to remember
21:03
Speaker 1: that if you're taking if your goal is to take
21:05
Speaker 1: care of everybody, and you neglect yourself, you have not
21:08
Speaker 1: taken care of everybody because you are included in in
21:12
Speaker 1: yourself too. Man. You know what I'm saying. You are
21:14
Speaker 1: included in the stuff too. You are a person in
21:16
Speaker 1: this equation as well. There's no easy answers, you know
21:20
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. There's nothing I can tell you to
21:23
Speaker 1: build a calendar and have better systems. And that's fine.
21:26
Speaker 1: That'll cover one thing, but this is a multifaceted issue.
21:31
Speaker 1: Last thing I'll say, and since she's already in counseling,
21:34
Speaker 1: and I hope that you find some time to get
21:36
Speaker 1: a counselor if you're not already. I think couples counseling
21:39
Speaker 1: is brilliant for things like this because couples counseling isn't
21:43
Speaker 1: just to fix in an unhealthy relationship, it's to sustain
21:47
Speaker 1: a healthy one too. And you all have grown a
21:50
Speaker 1: lot since you all had your first kid and since
21:53
Speaker 1: y'all first met each other, and you knew how to
21:55
Speaker 1: talk to the person from five years ago, six years ago.
21:59
Speaker 1: But now, sometimes couples underestimate how much they have to
22:02
Speaker 1: reorient themselves to learn how to talk to the person
22:05
Speaker 1: that their partner is now. Man, that's a challenging situation
22:10
Speaker 1: to be through, be going through, man, And I really
22:13
Speaker 1: really really really hope that y'all figure that out. But
22:17
Speaker 1: just remember, man, sometimes our partner isn't asking for us
22:19
Speaker 1: to become stronger. They're asking for us to just become
22:23
Speaker 1: a little bit lighter, to be in conjunction with something
22:27
Speaker 1: to think about. Man, that one's a little Usually these
22:36
Speaker 1: ain't personal for me, man, But I sympathize with men
22:42
Speaker 1: who are trying to figure out how to make this
22:44
Speaker 1: family thing work. Because you go to the internet and
22:47
Speaker 1: everyone is going to give you the same just do something.
22:50
Speaker 1: And I understand why that's such an appetizer solution to
22:54
Speaker 1: throw out there, But I'm telling you, how if you
22:56
Speaker 1: don't believe any dude you ever talk to. Please believe me.
22:58
Speaker 1: It don't work like that, because just something that you do,
23:01
Speaker 1: it's not gonna be enough. It sounds like that man's
23:04
Speaker 1: partner needs village, needs to support, needs a game plan
23:07
Speaker 1: for her own mental health. It sounds like she needs
23:09
Speaker 1: support at work, she needs support at home. She probably
23:13
Speaker 1: needs friends to push in, family to push in. There's
23:16
Speaker 1: a lot. There's no one fix man. You got to
23:19
Speaker 1: chop that tree from every angle for that thing fall down.
23:23
Speaker 1: Oh man, people really be going through it out here. Hey,
23:35
Speaker 1: before we keep going real quick, I want to tell
23:38
Speaker 1: y'all something that I'm really excited about. That's my first book.
23:41
Speaker 1: It all starts when you do, and it's available for
23:43
Speaker 1: pre order right now because it's coming out in just
23:45
Speaker 1: a few weeks. It's everything I've learned from therapy, from
23:48
Speaker 1: my own life, and from the conversations I've been having
23:50
Speaker 1: with people for years. Just search It all starts when
23:53
Speaker 1: you do by care Gains and pre order your copy today,
23:56
Speaker 1: available wherever books are sold. So somebody on Instagram Live
24:00
Speaker 1: right now, that's my producer call learn about Kyla is
24:03
Speaker 1: on Instagram Live and she says how long should couples
24:06
Speaker 1: give it to me? Again? How often should couples check
24:09
Speaker 1: in to recalibrate system? I say as often as you
24:13
Speaker 1: can without it feeling like another task. It depends some people.
24:19
Speaker 1: My wife and I have to meet in the middle.
24:20
Speaker 1: My wife is a give me as much information as
24:23
Speaker 1: you can. Overload me with information. I need to know everything.
24:26
Speaker 1: Type person I am not. I am an Tell me
24:30
Speaker 1: what is necessary, make it concise, and streamline it. Giving
24:34
Speaker 1: me bullet points. Type person that's water and oil. If
24:38
Speaker 1: we check in every day, it'll be too much for me.
24:41
Speaker 1: If we check in every two weeks, it'll be too
24:43
Speaker 1: little for her. So I think it just depends on
24:47
Speaker 1: the couple's bandwidth. I think more important than how often
24:51
Speaker 1: you should check in is what you should check in about.
24:54
Speaker 1: What are you checking in about? Is it logistics? Is
24:56
Speaker 1: it family logistics? Or is it feelings? And more important
25:00
Speaker 1: than what how often to check in, it's when you're
25:04
Speaker 1: checking in about logistics or feelings. Are y'all moving to
25:08
Speaker 1: the next talking point? Are you really sitting and listening
25:11
Speaker 1: or is this a conversation about solution finding or just
25:15
Speaker 1: hearing each other? The how much is not really as
25:19
Speaker 1: important to me is as what's the quality, what is
25:23
Speaker 1: the outcome? What are we moving toward here? And what
25:26
Speaker 1: are we walking away from this conversation with? Because if
25:30
Speaker 1: you don't feel fulfilled by what's happening, man, it's it's
25:34
Speaker 1: you ended up wasting a lot of time trying to
25:37
Speaker 1: move through a meeting agenda and then you look up
25:40
Speaker 1: and nobody feels heard and nobody feels validated. All right,
25:45
Speaker 1: thank you Instagram, thank you, Lovely Art eighty three, eighty three.
25:50
Speaker 1: The eighties was a good time. All right. So we're
25:53
Speaker 1: gonna move on to our second question right here, and
25:56
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna intro it. I'm just gonna play this joint.
25:59
Speaker 1: We're gonna hear together and let's respond.
26:01
Speaker 4: One of your episodes early on you talked about power
26:04
Speaker 4: that's stuck with me and how true power is something
26:08
Speaker 4: like a battery. It should empower and uplift those around us.
26:11
Speaker 4: And you're doing your thing and praise as well deserved.
26:15
Speaker 4: I really enjoyed listening and learning week to week. I
26:18
Speaker 4: want to know how you what suggest brothers who don't
26:22
Speaker 4: have a mentor og somebody they can go to like
26:25
Speaker 4: myself to get guidance or just recorrect your asthmath, because
26:31
Speaker 4: sometimes it feels like as a man, you're traveling without
26:35
Speaker 4: a compass and you try to navigate by stars, and
26:37
Speaker 4: sometimes it's uncomfortable to say, hey, I don't know where
26:39
Speaker 4: I'm going, and hell, if you're a leader, that's humbling.
26:44
Speaker 4: But at the same time, you still have to be
26:46
Speaker 4: able to find a way to get to a direction
26:49
Speaker 4: and a destination at the same time. And me, I'm
26:52
Speaker 4: a married father of six, and I'm in an army
26:54
Speaker 4: and it's not many brothers in my unit. Just for context,
26:58
Speaker 4: over the past what five years, I've hit a total
27:01
Speaker 4: of maybe six brothers including myself in my unit at
27:04
Speaker 4: one time. So having somebody to go to that looks
27:07
Speaker 4: like me has been few and far in between, if
27:10
Speaker 4: at all. So how would you recommend somebody go about that?
27:14
Speaker 4: Thank you for your time.
27:15
Speaker 1: That's a good question. Thank you for the question. First off,
27:19
Speaker 1: let's we're not going to speed past the fact that
27:22
Speaker 1: this man says that he's in the army and has
27:24
Speaker 1: six children. Not three, not four, not even five. This
27:32
Speaker 1: man has six children. Man, I'm all right, I struggled
27:38
Speaker 1: with two brother I can't imagine. All right, So enough
27:42
Speaker 1: about me, let's get to your question. Thank you for
27:45
Speaker 1: the props. I appreciate that. I'm glad that you enjoyed
27:47
Speaker 1: the part. It is my favorite thing to do and
27:49
Speaker 1: to know that it's out there helping people in real life,
27:53
Speaker 1: out in the wild is incredibly validating. So thank you.
27:58
Speaker 1: It's a few things that come you know, a lot
28:02
Speaker 1: of black men, we we didn't get sat down and
28:09
Speaker 1: taught emotional intelligence, especially not in the context that emotional
28:14
Speaker 1: intelligence is understood in as of today, in twenty twenty six.
28:20
Speaker 1: I think we watched our fathers, we watched our uncles,
28:24
Speaker 1: We watched coaches and pastors and older cousins and older
28:30
Speaker 1: dudes from the neighborhood. And that's all good and fine,
28:33
Speaker 1: But the challenge is observation can only really teach you
28:38
Speaker 1: what was modeled, and if that didn't exist in that
28:45
Speaker 1: like that demonstrating ecosystem, then you don't have a lot
28:49
Speaker 1: of emotional platform to build anything off of. And if
28:54
Speaker 1: nobody modeled emotional repair, you probably didn't learn emotional repair.
29:01
Speaker 1: So I which is one of the most important things
29:04
Speaker 1: that you can do to make sure your relationship stay strong,
29:08
Speaker 1: especially with your kids, with your significant other, with your
29:11
Speaker 1: with your employees, with your comrades, all that. I think
29:14
Speaker 1: all of that is important and it's just a key element.
29:17
Speaker 1: I noticed that a lot of us missing our development,
29:20
Speaker 1: but I mean real talk. We inherited examples before we
29:24
Speaker 1: inherited any type of language for it. So you come
29:29
Speaker 1: up against an interesting problem because I think mentorship is
29:33
Speaker 1: one of those things that is such an organic and
29:38
Speaker 1: specific kind of relationship that you can't force it. You
29:43
Speaker 1: can't force it if it doesn't exist in your life.
29:46
Speaker 1: You can't will it to be true. If you don't
29:48
Speaker 1: have the people to get the job done, if you
29:51
Speaker 1: don't have or examples of older men or women that
29:55
Speaker 1: you look up to, you respect, and you admire, you know,
29:59
Speaker 1: you can't make that appear out of the thin air.
30:02
Speaker 1: So what do you do when you don't have those
30:06
Speaker 1: connective touch points with actual humans. I think you learn
30:10
Speaker 1: through experiences. Because you were talking about recalibrating your asthmauth,
30:14
Speaker 1: by the way, I had to look up that word
30:16
Speaker 1: because I had never heard it before, So shout out
30:20
Speaker 1: to you. But when he said an asthmauth, he means
30:22
Speaker 1: like your kind of like your direction, your waypoints, your
30:27
Speaker 1: your bearings. We learn through different things. We learn through consequences,
30:31
Speaker 1: you know. That's that's one way to kind of recalibrate.
30:34
Speaker 1: Sometimes consequences we process it internally as a corrective action
30:41
Speaker 1: for being wrong, or being out of line, or not
30:44
Speaker 1: being knowledgeable enough. I don't see consequences that way. I
30:48
Speaker 1: see consequences sometimes as life's little reminders that the direction
30:55
Speaker 1: that we're headed in is not ideal for us. And
30:59
Speaker 1: if we are to continue in that direction, there will
31:02
Speaker 1: be harder lessons to learn, where we'll probably lose more
31:05
Speaker 1: and it'll be harder to recover from. But consequences are
31:09
Speaker 1: depending on how your mind frames them, a really good
31:12
Speaker 1: way to kind of redirect and get your parents. We
31:18
Speaker 1: learn because we get in trouble. We learn because we
31:19
Speaker 1: lost somebody. We learn because we get heartbroken. We learn
31:23
Speaker 1: when we get fired, you know, we learn when somebody
31:27
Speaker 1: checks us for a lot of black men. As sad
31:32
Speaker 1: as this reality is, it doesn't make it any less true.
31:36
Speaker 1: But life has to kind of become our mentor. And
31:41
Speaker 1: I hate to tell you this, man. I wish I
31:42
Speaker 1: could say, oh, you just go out on find amintor
31:45
Speaker 1: dot com and you will get matched with somebody who's
31:47
Speaker 1: perfect for you, and it just it simply does not
31:49
Speaker 1: work that way. That's that that relationship has to come
31:53
Speaker 1: in organically in order for it to be successful. Now,
31:56
Speaker 1: one thing that I feel like we discount, and this
31:58
Speaker 1: ain't even this is not simply a man issue, and
32:02
Speaker 1: I think it's more of a Western society issue. We
32:05
Speaker 1: discount how much we can learn from peers. We discount
32:10
Speaker 1: how much we can learn from the people who are
32:12
Speaker 1: either younger than us or the people who are our
32:14
Speaker 1: same age doing the same thing. I think the problem
32:17
Speaker 1: in that is, though, that your peers are still figuring
32:20
Speaker 1: it out too. And sometimes in mentorship we want somebody
32:23
Speaker 1: who's already been there before, who's blazed, who's blazed the trail,
32:26
Speaker 1: who lit the path, and all of the other things.
32:29
Speaker 1: But sometimes your friend group they can give you incredible wisdom,
32:33
Speaker 1: and I don't think that's to be discounted by age.
32:37
Speaker 1: But also they can normalize unhealthy behavior. So not everything
32:40
Speaker 1: I tell you is going to have a positive and
32:42
Speaker 1: a caveat. But I think community can be more than
32:47
Speaker 1: an echo chamber. Community can be accompassed for you. It's
32:52
Speaker 1: just a matter of the people who you decide to trust.
32:57
Speaker 1: How much wisdom they carry and how close you are
33:00
Speaker 1: are you know how comfortable they all were sharing that
33:02
Speaker 1: wisdom with you. People talk about they lived experiences. Ain't
33:06
Speaker 1: got nothing to do with me. I can't necessarily relate
33:08
Speaker 1: to it. But sometimes I'll pick something up in there
33:10
Speaker 1: that's just a little nugget that helped me change my
33:13
Speaker 1: direction in just a little bit, or make me interrogate
33:16
Speaker 1: my own initial thoughts to just become a more full
33:21
Speaker 1: thinker and become more introspective. I think we learn from responsibility.
33:28
Speaker 1: I know a lot of black men don't feel like
33:30
Speaker 1: they become adults because somebody taught them. You become an
33:33
Speaker 1: adult because life demanded it of you, Especially when you're
33:36
Speaker 1: a little black boy. When you turn into a teenager,
33:39
Speaker 1: god forbid, you got a little height on you. Nobody
33:41
Speaker 1: treat you like a kid anymore. You're nobody's baby. You
33:44
Speaker 1: everybody's threat, and it changes the psychology of the way
33:47
Speaker 1: you see yourself in the world. Sometimes, you know, a
33:50
Speaker 1: sick parent, bills collect all that stuff. It just kind
33:53
Speaker 1: of jumps on you. And sometimes responsibility can become your classroom.
33:59
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying. The responsibility of you being
34:02
Speaker 1: a father of six children, I can't imagine the lessons
34:06
Speaker 1: that you learned along the way. It can never replace
34:10
Speaker 1: the stewardship of another person, or the support or the
34:13
Speaker 1: affirmation that they give you when life gets at as
34:15
Speaker 1: hard as But remember, we're operating from the perspective that
34:19
Speaker 1: that resource is not available to you, or it won't
34:23
Speaker 1: be available to you in immediate future, which which is
34:30
Speaker 1: a frustrating reality. I can validate that that's a frustrating reality.
34:35
Speaker 1: But sometimes we do the best we can until better
34:38
Speaker 1: is available to us. And what I don't want you
34:40
Speaker 1: to do is just wait and do nothing until a
34:44
Speaker 1: mentor or someone of that ilk walks into your life,
34:48
Speaker 1: because you can spend so much valuable time not moving
34:52
Speaker 1: your feet where you could have been working towards something
34:54
Speaker 1: brilliant oftentimes another one man. I learned a lot from women,
34:59
Speaker 1: you know, I find it. I think that women are
35:02
Speaker 1: a lot more given when it comes to a lot
35:07
Speaker 1: more willing to share experiences. My experience with women is
35:10
Speaker 1: just they don't They don't always gatekeep information in the
35:13
Speaker 1: same way as a lot of men do. But the
35:15
Speaker 1: problem in that is you don't want to have an
35:18
Speaker 1: over expectation of her, have a type of sense of
35:22
Speaker 1: duty to you. You know, I think the relationship between
35:25
Speaker 1: men and women, I think there's an overreliance on women
35:28
Speaker 1: a lot of times to provide that type of support,
35:31
Speaker 1: safety and service. And we're not always old that, you know,
35:35
Speaker 1: and on your side, I think that there are some
35:40
Speaker 1: lessons that a man and a woman can say the
35:42
Speaker 1: same thing. And I noticed that men will listen to
35:45
Speaker 1: men in a specific way and women will listen to
35:47
Speaker 1: women in a specific way. So I don't know how
35:50
Speaker 1: you're oriented in terms of like taking leadership or advice
35:53
Speaker 1: from women, but don't discount that in your life, as
35:58
Speaker 1: long as it's not an overreliance on them, and as
36:00
Speaker 1: long as we're not doing too much, taking too much
36:02
Speaker 1: and not giving anything back. But if the first thing
36:06
Speaker 1: that popped in my mind and I saved this for
36:08
Speaker 1: last is through therapy. Bro through therapy, some of the
36:16
Speaker 1: best lessons I've learned have been or some of the
36:20
Speaker 1: greatest mentorships, some of the greatest guy that's some of
36:24
Speaker 1: the dopest and most effective recalibration I received has been
36:28
Speaker 1: through sitting across the table on a couch with the
36:32
Speaker 1: therapist and being asked questions I never thought of or
36:36
Speaker 1: having them push and challenge me mentally. The caveat is
36:40
Speaker 1: the therapist ain't your friend, and I think there is
36:42
Speaker 1: a very intimate component of that that is missing. But
36:46
Speaker 1: if you take all of these things, they can't substitute
36:50
Speaker 1: for a person, of course. But if you take all
36:52
Speaker 1: of these things, the life lessons, the peers, the therapy,
36:56
Speaker 1: I think you get yourself closer to getting those needs met,
37:01
Speaker 1: Especially with it not being a lot of people that
37:02
Speaker 1: look like you and your unit bro, I think you
37:05
Speaker 1: get yourself closer to getting your needs met than you
37:07
Speaker 1: would otherwise. You know, a lot of men don't just
37:11
Speaker 1: become emotional out of nowhere. I don't think it's always that.
37:17
Speaker 1: I think sometimes you just start to become more articulate
37:21
Speaker 1: and putting words to the way that you feel, and
37:24
Speaker 1: it gets harder to pretend that it's not there, and
37:28
Speaker 1: it sounds like, boy, it sounds like you there already.
37:31
Speaker 1: If you can find good mentorship, anybody who's out here listening,
37:35
Speaker 1: do that. If it doesn't feel good, you're gonna walk
37:39
Speaker 1: away from it. I think that's okay, But don't wait
37:42
Speaker 1: until it's there before you start seeking out the dope.
37:46
Speaker 1: Lessons that life has to teach you, because I think
37:49
Speaker 1: you be doing yourself with the service something to think about.
37:54
Speaker 1: That's a good question, man, Thank you for that. Appreciate
37:58
Speaker 1: you man, aish you the best of luck. That might
38:02
Speaker 1: sound disingenuous, but it's not. I really am wishing you
38:06
Speaker 1: the best of luck.
38:07
Speaker 5: Man.
38:07
Speaker 1: That's a heavy burden and carry. And also remember while
38:10
Speaker 1: I'm reading these questions off, if you have anything for
38:15
Speaker 1: me that's in this realm, or anything you've been wondering,
38:18
Speaker 1: anything that's sprung across your brain, anything you think it's important,
38:25
Speaker 1: anything you would like to start doing, anything you would
38:27
Speaker 1: like to stop doing, give it to me. Bring your
38:30
Speaker 1: here to the pod Learn thehardwaypod dot com. I have
38:33
Speaker 1: a feature on my website that allows you to leave
38:35
Speaker 1: up to a minute and thirty second message for me.
38:38
Speaker 1: Put it all in there. If you got to write
38:40
Speaker 1: a little note on your phone, get your message together,
38:43
Speaker 1: put it in there and I will read it here
38:44
Speaker 1: on the pod. If you're a fan of the pod,
38:47
Speaker 1: it'll be dope to just pop up a mailbag episode
38:50
Speaker 1: and then you hear your voice and then you and
38:52
Speaker 1: I kind of work through this thing. I'm going I
38:54
Speaker 1: give you something to think about Learn thehardwaypod dot com.
38:59
Speaker 1: Leave me a voice message and I will holler back
39:01
Speaker 1: at you.
39:07
Speaker 5: All.
39:08
Speaker 1: H We are closing in about at the halfway point
39:11
Speaker 1: of this episode. I have a question, and we're gonna
39:17
Speaker 1: go through this together. Here we go.
39:24
Speaker 5: Hey, Sor, I've been enjoying your podcast. I know it's
39:26
Speaker 5: meant for black males, but I feel like we all
39:29
Speaker 5: can learn something. So my question is for you. If
39:33
Speaker 5: you notice that your spouse is probably dealing with some
39:37
Speaker 5: type of anxiety or depression, because I listen to your
39:42
Speaker 5: depression episode, then I can relate to it also from
39:45
Speaker 5: a black male stance from my spouse, how can a
39:49
Speaker 5: wife or partner support their spouse and encouraged them to
39:57
Speaker 5: seek help or see that how they're handling things is
40:02
Speaker 5: not normal. Your statement about like successful being successful causes stress,
40:09
Speaker 5: and I think that's what my spouse is dealing with.
40:11
Speaker 5: So maybe if you and your wife or you can
40:14
Speaker 5: touch on how can a wife support their husband when
40:19
Speaker 5: they see that they're struggling but the male is not
40:23
Speaker 5: ready to accept it or attend therapy to address it
40:27
Speaker 5: for whatever reason. I appreciate your Safe Space for creating
40:33
Speaker 5: for the culture like you said also just being real,
40:37
Speaker 5: and I greatly appreciate you.
40:39
Speaker 1: Oh man, I appreciate you.
40:41
Speaker 5: Man.
40:41
Speaker 1: First shout out to to learn the hard way. Girlies.
40:43
Speaker 1: Y'all been out there. Man, y'all been asking questions and
40:46
Speaker 1: really engaging with the pod, and I really value that.
40:49
Speaker 1: I love how they all start off, like, I know,
40:51
Speaker 1: this is a male's podcast, but listen, you do not
40:54
Speaker 1: have to be a man. You do not have to
40:57
Speaker 1: be black, You do not have to be a black
40:59
Speaker 1: man to be in this space and be welcome. I
41:02
Speaker 1: welcome you here. There's always space for you here. You
41:05
Speaker 1: will welcome here. You appreciate it. Thank you for even
41:08
Speaker 1: tuning in. That means a lot. You know, mental health
41:12
Speaker 1: isn't just men's mental health when it goes bad. It's
41:15
Speaker 1: never just going to be a men's issue. It's never
41:19
Speaker 1: just going to be men's problem when it goes south.
41:22
Speaker 1: So I love that all of us are tuning in
41:24
Speaker 1: and trying to learn something and apply to our own lives. Now,
41:28
Speaker 1: this is a good question to ask because I get
41:32
Speaker 1: this a lot my DMS, and I never get to
41:34
Speaker 1: get my opinion off with it. So there are a
41:37
Speaker 1: million answers that I can give you but I'll give
41:40
Speaker 1: you the one that popped in my mind first, because
41:42
Speaker 1: all the stuff is off the top of the dome.
41:44
Speaker 1: I would start with what I call a light touch.
41:48
Speaker 1: It's called a light touch, and a light touch is
41:50
Speaker 1: just what it says. You touch something very gently. You
41:54
Speaker 1: don't grab it, you don't hold it, you don't shake it,
41:57
Speaker 1: you just touch it ever so gently. And in a
42:01
Speaker 1: light touch, you don't start by diagnosing the issue, right.
42:04
Speaker 1: You don't stop by saying, I see you got anxiety.
42:07
Speaker 1: That's there's no response that's going to come back, that's
42:11
Speaker 1: going to be it's unlikely for the response to be productive.
42:16
Speaker 1: So you don't start by diagnosing. You start by noticing,
42:20
Speaker 1: and you notice out loud, and the light touch is
42:22
Speaker 1: like this, like, Babe, I notice, I've been noticing work
42:28
Speaker 1: has been stressful for you. And here when I see
42:32
Speaker 1: your stressed out, this is what I see. I see
42:35
Speaker 1: you get down, I see your anxiety, you kind of
42:38
Speaker 1: get anxious about things. I see that you don't want
42:41
Speaker 1: to be bothered. And I notice that you're not accusing,
42:48
Speaker 1: You're noticing and take it. And what I ideally would love
42:54
Speaker 1: to see in an example like this is it come
42:56
Speaker 1: from a genuine place of concern. I think we got
42:59
Speaker 1: to be mindful when we do this, because it's very
43:01
Speaker 1: easy for our concern to kind of come out as
43:06
Speaker 1: you need to change because this shit getting all my nerves.
43:09
Speaker 1: I'm tired of your anxious, depressed ass walking around the
43:12
Speaker 1: house and messing up the whole mood and being an
43:14
Speaker 1: emotional thermostat and killing the vibe in the house. You
43:17
Speaker 1: might not literally say it that way, but I think
43:20
Speaker 1: it's very easy for a message like this to be
43:22
Speaker 1: interpreted that way by a person who's being consumed with
43:26
Speaker 1: negative feelings and thoughts. So, like, you know, Babe, I've
43:30
Speaker 1: noticed that work gets really heavy and you don't quite
43:32
Speaker 1: seem like yourself. It just it feels like you're carrying
43:35
Speaker 1: a lot. And I think given noticing that and just
43:39
Speaker 1: you know, putting some awareness on it, without giving yourself
43:43
Speaker 1: or that person the duty to necessarily change what's going on,
43:47
Speaker 1: I find that to be effective. Sometimes. Reason being is
43:50
Speaker 1: because when you're in the experience of being anxious or
43:53
Speaker 1: being depressed, you don't you're not cognizant of how you're
43:56
Speaker 1: coming off. You're trying to survive the moment. You don't
44:01
Speaker 1: always see how your mood has changed. You don't see
44:04
Speaker 1: how your temperament has changed. You might not see how
44:06
Speaker 1: things are like how you are affecting the spaces around you,
44:12
Speaker 1: because you are literally consumed with a feeling that feels
44:15
Speaker 1: so heavy and so big in the moment that it
44:18
Speaker 1: puts blinders on you in a way. So the first
44:21
Speaker 1: part is to notice, not a cused. You know, observation
44:24
Speaker 1: creates way less defensiveness than interpretation every single time. Now,
44:29
Speaker 1: the second part is to follow with care. So once
44:32
Speaker 1: you notice, you want to communicate care, which isn't fixing,
44:36
Speaker 1: it's not solving, it's just it's care. And that will
44:40
Speaker 1: sound something like, you know, I hate seeing you carry
44:45
Speaker 1: this all by yourself. Or sometimes it looks like, Babe,
44:48
Speaker 1: I love you so much. I love you, I hate
44:52
Speaker 1: that you're carrying us by yourself. I love you so much.
44:55
Speaker 1: And sometimes it looks like you're saying I'm in your corner.
44:58
Speaker 1: Like I'm in your corner. You know, people are way
45:02
Speaker 1: more likely, at least in my experience, to receive concern
45:07
Speaker 1: when they don't feel like they're being judged. Now here's
45:12
Speaker 1: the hard part. Because that's the easy part. Here's the
45:16
Speaker 1: hard part. The hard part has nothing to do with
45:19
Speaker 1: him and everything to do with you. I want you
45:24
Speaker 1: to hear me out. The next most important thing that
45:27
Speaker 1: you can do is to manage your own expectations. And
45:33
Speaker 1: this may not feel like it's a part of the
45:36
Speaker 1: process of helping your loved one get better, but it
45:41
Speaker 1: is because if you were to become the therapy and
45:43
Speaker 1: you would to tell me these things, There's nothing that
45:46
Speaker 1: I can do for him. He's not my client. There's
45:49
Speaker 1: nothing I can do for him. And we can't control
45:52
Speaker 1: what other people think, feel, and believe, can't control the
45:54
Speaker 1: way they behave. We can't control any of that, but
45:57
Speaker 1: we can control our response to it. So the first
46:01
Speaker 1: thing in managing your own expectations is just realizing or
46:07
Speaker 1: coming to the realization that because you've expressed concern, that
46:13
Speaker 1: does not mean that you control the outcome. Hear me out.
46:16
Speaker 1: I am not saying that you're trying to be controlling,
46:19
Speaker 1: not at all. But if you see a person hurting
46:22
Speaker 1: and you put forth effort, and I just said this,
46:25
Speaker 1: this is very This is very similar to the first
46:29
Speaker 1: question that the gentleman asked at the top of the
46:31
Speaker 1: show about helping his spouse out who's going through depression.
46:37
Speaker 1: If if you marry yourself too much to the outcome,
46:44
Speaker 1: you will measure your success by whether or not he
46:47
Speaker 1: changes immediately. That's not that's not fair to you, that's
46:53
Speaker 1: not fair to him, and that's not fair to the partnership.
46:58
Speaker 1: The next part of that I want you to do
46:59
Speaker 1: is I want you to work on not internalizing his
47:03
Speaker 1: resistance as your failure. In my book, one of the
47:06
Speaker 1: things I talk about is you're five stages of behavior change.
47:09
Speaker 1: I will not go through all the details because it's
47:11
Speaker 1: really deep, but the first step of behavioral change is
47:14
Speaker 1: called pre contemplation. Why don't on something crazy about the
47:17
Speaker 1: first step in behavior change. It involves you not even
47:22
Speaker 1: knowing that there's an issue. Pre contemplation phase, you don't
47:26
Speaker 1: even know that there's a problem that you're dealing with.
47:28
Speaker 1: It just does not blip on your radar. And then
47:31
Speaker 1: the next step is contemplation, where you're starting to become
47:34
Speaker 1: aware of the problem, but you're not quite in the
47:38
Speaker 1: space to do anything about it yet. You're just aware
47:41
Speaker 1: that there's a problem. So it's funny. In the five
47:44
Speaker 1: stages of behavior change, only about two of the stages
47:47
Speaker 1: involve you two or three only involve actually doing something,
47:51
Speaker 1: because it's not about changing. It's the stages of the change.
47:55
Speaker 1: It's not one feels swoop, it's working up towards the change.
47:58
Speaker 1: It's actually changing and at the end and is a
48:00
Speaker 1: maintenance piece. You know, you could do everything right, and
48:05
Speaker 1: if that person is not ready, they are not ready.
48:09
Speaker 1: And that is not an indictment on you as a partner.
48:12
Speaker 1: It is just the bare truth. It's just the truth.
48:15
Speaker 1: And no matter how much you want your partner to
48:18
Speaker 1: go to therapy or you want them to change, they
48:21
Speaker 1: can only change in their on their own time and
48:25
Speaker 1: under their own circumstances. And that feels like an absolute
48:28
Speaker 1: failure when you see the potential in this person and
48:32
Speaker 1: what they could be and what they can do and
48:33
Speaker 1: what they can achieve, and it is just this barrier
48:36
Speaker 1: in a way, and you feel like, man, if I
48:37
Speaker 1: can just give you these words, if I could say
48:40
Speaker 1: this thing, if I could change this perspective, everything will
48:42
Speaker 1: be different. And that is not realistic unfortunately. So what
48:47
Speaker 1: we do is standing in the gap between the problem
48:51
Speaker 1: that they're dealing with and finding a solution of that problem.
48:54
Speaker 1: Is we got to realize, man, we're a passenger on
48:57
Speaker 1: this ship. Pass it. We don't drive that boat. You
49:03
Speaker 1: could be the best passenger that you can be, and
49:06
Speaker 1: that is the most that you can do. And I
49:09
Speaker 1: want you to find I hope for you that you
49:13
Speaker 1: can find a middle ground. And no middle ground is
49:17
Speaker 1: not the right word. Let me think about the word
49:19
Speaker 1: I'm trying to say. I'm hoping that you can find
49:20
Speaker 1: a way to still do their bottom up touch feedback, baby,
49:24
Speaker 1: this is what I notice, and be gentle enough to
49:27
Speaker 1: have inquiries and push, but not pushy enough to force
49:30
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. I hope you can do
49:33
Speaker 1: that and find some type of traction in that without
49:37
Speaker 1: grinding yourself to dust, or without blaming yourself for not
49:41
Speaker 1: being able to institute change within this person. You know,
49:44
Speaker 1: people change at the speed of their own readiness, and
49:47
Speaker 1: they change at the speed of their own comfort, not ours, unfortunately,
49:51
Speaker 1: And they don't change because we love them, and they
49:53
Speaker 1: don't change because we're scared. They change on their own.
49:57
Speaker 1: You know, that's frustration, reader, And we come up against
50:02
Speaker 1: this in couple's counseling all the time. It's frustrating, but
50:05
Speaker 1: it's not that it's not effective. It's just a long
50:07
Speaker 1: game and one more, one more thing that I can
50:10
Speaker 1: offer because you know some people here concerning some people here, criticism.
50:14
Speaker 1: You have to know your partner, You have to know
50:16
Speaker 1: who you're talking to. You have to create opportunities to talk.
50:19
Speaker 1: Just the other day, my wife. That's why I love these,
50:22
Speaker 1: because I can't get my own stories off of therapy.
50:25
Speaker 1: My wife, man, we just she she gave me some
50:27
Speaker 1: time and I talked about this on another part. She
50:29
Speaker 1: gave me some time that this event and did it
50:32
Speaker 1: change anything? Hell no, and they changed the damn thing.
50:37
Speaker 1: All of my problems were still there. But it felt
50:40
Speaker 1: good to express the things that were on my mind
50:44
Speaker 1: without fear of judgment. And I knew that she was
50:46
Speaker 1: there just to listen and just to understand. And she said, asked,
50:49
Speaker 1: you know what's been weighing on you lately? You know
50:51
Speaker 1: what's work been like for you? I mean, she the
50:54
Speaker 1: call owner of my business, so she knows. But even
50:56
Speaker 1: asking that just it felt good. You know what's been
50:59
Speaker 1: taking all of your time? What are you spending all
51:01
Speaker 1: your time on? Just that genuine interest in the in
51:04
Speaker 1: and workings of my mind made me feel good. She
51:07
Speaker 1: try to judge it. She ain't try to solve it.
51:09
Speaker 1: Shein't try to immediately redirect it. She was just curious.
51:14
Speaker 1: And I think that that curiosity is It's like it's
51:19
Speaker 1: like herbal remedies. You know, they may not immediately take effect,
51:23
Speaker 1: but damn they work. You know, they may not immediately
51:26
Speaker 1: solve the problem. But man, do they help remedy some stuff.
51:30
Speaker 1: But my thing, I don't know if you already do.
51:33
Speaker 1: But when people come and they asked me, how can
51:36
Speaker 1: I get my partner to be more interested or serious
51:39
Speaker 1: in therapy? You want to know what I tell them.
51:43
Speaker 1: I tell them one of the best ways to do
51:45
Speaker 1: it that doesn't feel forceful is to engage in therapy yourself,
51:49
Speaker 1: be in therapy, find a counselor talk to a counselor
51:54
Speaker 1: develop a report, and your partner will see the changes
51:56
Speaker 1: in you like you can tell sometimes when people are
51:59
Speaker 1: going to thing because they just God. I encourage everybody
52:02
Speaker 1: to go back and listen to my episode with Crystal.
52:05
Speaker 1: Christal was talking about how she used to be on
52:07
Speaker 1: the edge, just you know, kicking down doors, wa even
52:10
Speaker 1: the fourth full just going wild on folks, and now
52:14
Speaker 1: she's much more empathetic and sympathetic and she gives more
52:19
Speaker 1: grace and she gives more runway without being taken advantage of,
52:24
Speaker 1: and those would have benefits of therapy. And these people
52:27
Speaker 1: don't even know Chrystal directly. They listen to her own pods.
52:30
Speaker 1: So if that's true for a podcast listener and a
52:33
Speaker 1: podcast host, it's most certainly true for people within an
52:37
Speaker 1: intimate relationship where you can see your partner, see the
52:43
Speaker 1: small changes in them, and sometimes that encourages That encourages
52:48
Speaker 1: our partners to start their therapy journey or at least
52:51
Speaker 1: be less defensive and more curious about it. So you know,
52:56
Speaker 1: you're not your partner's therapist at all. It's not your
52:59
Speaker 1: job to heal them. It's not your job to make
53:01
Speaker 1: them well, because also those are two different jobs. But
53:05
Speaker 1: you can create safety. You know, you can't force readiness,
53:09
Speaker 1: but you can open the door for conversation. You can't
53:13
Speaker 1: make someone walk through that door, but you can walk
53:16
Speaker 1: through it yourself and allow the freedom that you have
53:19
Speaker 1: on the other side to be an invitation for them. So, yeah,
53:23
Speaker 1: you're not trying to convince the person that they're struggling.
53:25
Speaker 1: You're just trying to let them know that I see it,
53:27
Speaker 1: I don't like it, and I want better for you,
53:29
Speaker 1: And I'm not blaming you. I'm just giving you support
53:32
Speaker 1: because I think you deserve to live a happy and
53:35
Speaker 1: fulfilling life and anything less than that it's not for you. Yeah,
53:45
Speaker 1: something to think about. Man. You know a lot of
53:49
Speaker 1: social media talk is about how terrible everyone's significant other is.
53:53
Speaker 1: But we just had two messages with people. I'm not
53:58
Speaker 1: gonna say terrible. Let me use more specific language. A
54:01
Speaker 1: lot of conversation is just around how unhelpful and unsupportive
54:04
Speaker 1: people's spouses and partners and significant others are. But you know,
54:08
Speaker 1: for these two conversations to be how can I better help?
54:11
Speaker 1: I think that gives me a lot of promise. Man,
54:14
Speaker 1: it gives me a lot of promise. All right, Let's
54:18
Speaker 1: do one more. We can do one more. Let's do
54:21
Speaker 1: one more. All right, here we go, last one. Hello.
54:33
Speaker 6: Hi, I'm a forty five year old white woman married
54:37
Speaker 6: to a black man and the stepmother to a beautiful
54:41
Speaker 6: black daughter. And I started listening to your podcast to
54:44
Speaker 6: understand my husband's world and what can is faced with.
54:49
Speaker 6: And through the process of trying to understand him and
54:52
Speaker 6: his world better, I started to understand me my world better.
54:56
Speaker 6: I just want to say thank you for the hard
54:59
Speaker 6: truth only keeping it real. And it's been really amazing
55:04
Speaker 6: to see you grow from the parent content creator. That's
55:08
Speaker 6: how I first found you. And see how you've grown
55:11
Speaker 6: into this amating derekis is pretty cool. I just wanted
55:15
Speaker 6: to send you the biggest shout out. Thank you for
55:19
Speaker 6: helping to like the path to a new understanding. Congrats
55:24
Speaker 6: on the book. I can't wait for my copy. Keep going.
55:27
Speaker 6: I'm excited to see what comes next.
55:30
Speaker 1: Oh man, that one got me a little emo. Man. Wow,
55:35
Speaker 1: I didn't expect to feel that way from that one. Wow,
55:40
Speaker 1: thank you, thank you for that just a moment of
55:45
Speaker 1: honesty and vulnerability. I just it's been overwhelming the responses
55:52
Speaker 1: that I have received from people. Yeah, I'm right now,
55:57
Speaker 1: like we're filming this episode out of Our Heart podcast
56:00
Speaker 1: studios in Atlanta, and I just went to cross the
56:02
Speaker 1: street to go get some food and I got stopped
56:04
Speaker 1: by like four or five people. It was this young
56:07
Speaker 1: man with his girlfriend and he said, hey, bro, ain't
56:09
Speaker 1: you the dude from social media? I said yeah. He's like, man,
56:13
Speaker 1: thank you man. It's helped me through a lot. He's
56:17
Speaker 1: twenty twenty three years old, young man, and you know,
56:23
Speaker 1: I just told him, thank you, man. I appreciate that.
56:26
Speaker 1: I saw a woman who has been following me since
56:29
Speaker 1: my daughter was two years old. I mean, she knew everything,
56:32
Speaker 1: and she was like, I hate to be that person. Nah,
56:34
Speaker 1: be that person, be that person. It just validated me
56:39
Speaker 1: in a way that I didn't realize I need it
56:41
Speaker 1: in a moment. I'm still getting comfortable with the idea
56:45
Speaker 1: that I need validation sometimes. And it's not just any validation.
56:50
Speaker 1: I think it's the quality of the validation. Maybe that's
56:52
Speaker 1: why the first listener when he said validation, it made
56:58
Speaker 1: my ears perk up, because I myself and a lot
57:01
Speaker 1: of my clients don't realize that we need it, and
57:03
Speaker 1: then you receive it and you're like, oh, you know,
57:05
Speaker 1: it's like expensive lotional ash, she has hands. It just
57:08
Speaker 1: feels good. You know, thank you for that, I man
57:15
Speaker 1: for you know. Sometimes white folks will come in my comments,
57:20
Speaker 1: especially like white women between forty and let's just say, like,
57:24
Speaker 1: let's say forty and sixty come in my comments and say,
57:26
Speaker 1: I know I'm not your target demography. It's like, what
57:28
Speaker 1: makes you think that my target demography is anybody who's
57:32
Speaker 1: willing to listen to a different perspective than their own
57:36
Speaker 1: and have the readiness and willingness to change something. That
57:41
Speaker 1: is who I'm speaking to each and every time. So yeah,
57:47
Speaker 1: I'm glad that it's able to help you. That one
57:52
Speaker 1: caught me off. God, y'all, I ain't gonna lie. I'm
57:54
Speaker 1: glad it's able to help your family. I'm glad you
57:57
Speaker 1: understanding your husband better. I'm glad you're understanding your oath better.
58:01
Speaker 1: Come on, man, that is that's what we're here for.
58:03
Speaker 1: That's the good stuff right there. And I'm glad that
58:07
Speaker 1: you're getting meaningful, just something meaningful from interacting with this pot.
58:14
Speaker 1: This is my first podcast like this. I didn't have
58:16
Speaker 1: my podcast my wife, but this is my first part
58:19
Speaker 1: like this. One is just me talking into a microphone.
58:21
Speaker 1: It's crazy, but it's been an incredible journey so far. However,
58:26
Speaker 1: many episodes we are in, and we got so many
58:28
Speaker 1: more to go. So here's the learning, whether you're learning
58:33
Speaker 1: it the easy way or whether the lessons get learned
58:36
Speaker 1: the hard way. Here's the being open, here's the being accepting.
58:42
Speaker 1: Here's the finding out who the fuck we are. Man,
58:46
Speaker 1: it's just so important. We changed so much and so
58:48
Speaker 1: many things shift. Just to be able to go somewhere
58:53
Speaker 1: and be able to ask ourselves, have some introspective thought
58:56
Speaker 1: and learn something new about ourselves is a gift that
58:58
Speaker 1: I think can not be overstated. You know what else
59:03
Speaker 1: can't be overstated the fact that there's time for this
59:07
Speaker 1: episode to end. As much as I love the mailbag episodes,
59:10
Speaker 1: I think we are at the conclusion of this one.
59:13
Speaker 1: Thank y'all for your questions, Thank y'all for leaning in.
59:17
Speaker 1: Thank you for your curiosity, thank you for your ears,
59:20
Speaker 1: thank you for your eyes, thank you for your awareness.
59:23
Speaker 1: You don't have to listen to me. It's a billion
59:25
Speaker 1: podcasts out on the world. Some of them are very
59:28
Speaker 1: very good. A lot of them are very very terrible.
59:32
Speaker 1: But either way, you chose to be here with me,
59:34
Speaker 1: and I do not take that lightly. Thank you so
59:36
Speaker 1: much so until we meet again, until the next episode,
59:40
Speaker 1: until the next time we talk, take care of yourself,
59:43
Speaker 1: take care the spaces around you, and make sure you
59:45
Speaker 1: have the people in them spaces. Take care of you too,
59:48
Speaker 1: because that's important. My name is care Gains. I appreciate you,
59:52
Speaker 1: and I'm out. Job well done. Learn the hard Way
59:56
Speaker 1: as a production of I Heart Podcasts, I'm Your Host
59:59
Speaker 1: care Gains. We're produced by Courtney Deans and Cason Alexander Ashley. J.
1:00:03
Speaker 1: Hobbs is our senior producer. Our executive producers of Will Packer,
1:00:07
Speaker 1: Doctor Joy Harden Bradford, Alex Balden, and Carla Willmaris